August 28, 2025 • 40 mins
Why is it that sometimes, even when care is offered freely, it doesn’t land? In this episode of The Circle, Eric and Tim unpack the messy, beautiful complexity of giving and receiving care.
From family dynamics and love languages to roommates, ex-husbands, and Provincetown coffee shop connections, they explore why care often misses the mark—and what we can do to better recognize and receive it. They share personal stories of frustration, vulnerability, and breakthrough, reminding us that effort, transparency, and trust go a long way.
This is an invitation to practice revealing what you need, honoring how others show care, and making sure the people you love actually feel it. Because if tomorrow never comes, will they know how much you cared?
Chapter Markers
00:00 – Welcome & Introduction: Why care is such a tender and complicated subject
02:45 – When Care Doesn’t Land: Eric’s family Christmas story
06:30 – Care Requires Vulnerability: Tim on courage and the glamorization of “not caring”
11:00 – “It’s Just a Yoga Class”: When dismissal misses the mark
15:25 – Different Languages of Care: Roommates, partners, and communication gaps
21:10 – Effort vs. Perfection: Why trying matters more than getting it right
26:05 – Love Letters to Friends: Tim’s reflections on Gordon and the power of reassurance
32:40 – Accepting Care as It’s Given: Shifting perspective with empathy and trust
37:00 – Closing Reflections & Sow: Care as ongoing practice and communication
Learn more, ask questions and practice along with us at www.myembodiment.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Bomyea (00:05):
Welcome back to The Circle, the podcast where we go
all in on men's work, embodimentpractices, and personal growth
from our queer perspective. Ifyou're enjoying the show, please
subscribe and leave us a review.And if you're curious about the
work that we do or the practicesthat we've mentioned on the
show, head on over tomyembodiment.com where you can
practice meditation, breathwork, and yoga with us in real
time. And you can ask us aquestion about anything you've
(00:27):
heard us talk about here on theshow. That's myembodiment.com.
Now, on to today's show. In thisepisode, we're asking, why might
someone struggle to recognize oraccept care even when it's
freely offered? The love beinggiven is real, but it doesn't
land for some reason. Maybe it'snot shown in the way that we
expect or maybe it stirs up oldwounds. Whatever it is, we know
(00:49):
that it can be frustrating onboth sides.
And so that's where we're goingtoday. Tim, are you ready to go
all in?
Timothy Bish (00:55):
I'm ready. All right.
Eric Bomyea (00:56):
So let's do this. This is a topic that's near to
my sensitive little heart here,care.
Timothy Bish (01:02):
Oh, is it? It
Eric Bomyea (01:03):
is. Okay. And I've mentioned it a couple of times
on this show that I have adistant relationship with my
family. And a lot of that comesdown to a narrative that I've
told myself over and over again,subconsciously, consciously
sometimes as well, that theyjust don't care or that they
just don't get me. And the truthis, the real reality is they do
(01:23):
care.
They do love me. They just showit in a way that I don't always
receive. I don't always receivetheir love in a way that signals
to me I am cared for. And anexample of this would be at
Christmas, this past Christmas,where I didn't receive a formal
invitation. I didn't receive aphone call.
(01:44):
Nobody called me up and said,Hey, I want you to come to
Christmas this year. It's atthis time, this place. Will you
please come? It was, in myopinion, a passive aggressive
remark halfway through aChristmas phone call where it
was like, Oh, would have beennice if you would have been
here.
Timothy Bish (01:59):
I remember you saying that. Yep.
Eric Bomyea (02:01):
And so that just didn't land. And I know that
underneath it all, underneaththe tone, underneath all of it
was a true sincere desire for meto join them. And there was
sadness, and there may have beensome whatevers in the way. I get
that. I can intellectuallyunderstand that.
Emotionally, though, I don'talways see that, and I don't
(02:21):
always feel that. And so that'sthe topic of today's
conversation is why do you thinkit's so hard for someone to
actually receive or receive carethat's right in front of them?
Timothy Bish (02:31):
I believe that care requires vulnerability.
Part of the reason I think itmight be tricky for people to
express their care is because ittakes an enormous amount of
courage to tell a thing aboutyourself that you that matters.
Right? Even even a tiny thing. Ireally like that TV show.
(02:56):
I really like you know, maybesomething that isn't that
important, but you're you'rerevealing, oh, there's something
about this that matters to me.The more people know what
matters, you know, like, the themore vulnerable we become. Oh,
if you know what matters to me,you might potentially disagree
(03:16):
with it, push back against it,use it against me, any any
number of things. I think carerequires a vulnerability, a
bravery, a courage. And I thinkwe live in a world where we're
not really trained or taught toreally show that in in lot a lot
(03:36):
of ways.
And it's portrayed as very sexyto be mysterious and aloof and
to not care. How many figuresfrom movies are are the person
who's so cool because they justdon't care? Right? And that's a
big part of their identity.Like, the thing that makes them
cool is that they don't care.
(03:58):
I don't care about if you likemy outfit. I don't care if you
know? And so I think we'veglamorized not caring, and we
haven't practiced caring andrecognizing care and respecting
care. Because I remember onetime, you know, I was, this has
happened a few times in my lifewhere I had a thing coming up,
(04:22):
and someone would try to comfortme by basically telling me,
well, don't be so nervous. It'snot that big a deal.
And I remember thinking, well,the fact that you don't care
about a thing I care aboutdoesn't make it easier for me to
care less about it. Now I'mmildly annoyed as opposed to
(04:44):
recognize that it matters andthen go from there. Right? So,
oh, it's just you know, Iremember early in my early in my
teaching, which feels crazy nowbecause it's, like, two decades
ago, and I was so nervous that Iwas like, oh, they asked me to
sub for this senior teacher.Like, can I do it?
And I expressed being nervous,and my friend was, you know,
(05:06):
it's just a yoga class. Your thefact that you don't care about
it or that you don't think it,like, merits a certain level of
care hasn't changed that I do.And so now I just feel like you
haven't seen or held me and andmy situation what I care about.
And then you've then you're leftlike well, so and I think that
(05:26):
then lends it to, well, thenmaybe I'll be more guarded with
what I what I share with people.Because when I tell
Eric Bomyea (05:33):
you I care about something and I get that
response, it is incentivizing meto not tell you about things I
care about because I can't trustyou. That is it's part of what I
mentioned. Like, it'sfrustrating on both sides. Like,
that person may still care aboutyou. Right?
That person that was saying, oh,it's just a yoga class. They may
still deeply care about you. Butthe way that they're expressing
(05:55):
their care in that moment isn'tlanding for you.
Timothy Bish (05:59):
Right. Well, we should be clear about, like,
what we mean by care. Sure.Because I care about how I show
up when I teach yoga. I careabout how I show up when I'm
doing the embodiment circle orthe sharing circle.
I mean, these are things that Icare about. And that isn't the
same thing exactly as do I careabout this person. So maybe for
(06:19):
the for the remainder of thisepisode, we should talk about,
like, interpersonal love.Because, yes, I believe that
that person does care about meor that they love me, and they
and they want good things forme. But they didn't recognize
that I cared about this thing,and that's why I was nervous.
Telling me that you don't careabout it is the least helpful
(06:41):
thing because it hasn't changedanything except now I know you
don't care about it. But do theylove me? Sure.
Eric Bomyea (06:47):
That's that's like my Christmas example. That's not
the the the response that Ineeded from my family. Right? I
needed to receive their carefully for me and my emotions and
my nervous system. I needed tofeel them.
I needed to feel their care in away that I could hear. And that
(07:08):
would have looked like, hey, Ireally want you at Christmas
this year, and that's not what Igot. Mhmm. But underneath it, I
know that that's what they weretrying to say. And so if I care
about family time or care aboutquality time, I still think that
there's a way that we can meeteach other.
And I think that there's a waythat we can, both as the giver
(07:30):
and the receiver of care, we canhave some sensitivities to what
it is that we're trying toexpress or what it is this
person might be trying toexpress to us. And can we hold
it with a little bit lesspreference sometimes and more
with an openness of like, okay,Do I trust that this person
(07:51):
loves me? Yes. Do they are theyresonating with the thing that I
care about so much right now?No.
However, doesn't mean that theycare about me any less.
Timothy Bish (08:03):
And I think understanding a person's care
can help you meet them. I'mgonna give an example with my ex
husband. We were in couplescounseling, and the or, you
know, we could we couldcritique, like, the the
robustness of our communicationat times. But it it came out
that he would be annoyed that Iwould leave my glass that I
(08:27):
drank my iced coffee out of oneither on the sink or the on the
coffee table. And when we hadthis conversation where we,
like, unpacked it, it was clearthat we both had, like,
different so he was like, I seethis.
This feels like a lack ofconsideration or care. And so
what he would do is he wouldkeep putting it away as, like, a
silent sort of teaching, kindatrain me to understand. You
(08:49):
know? And I would come home andbe annoyed he put it away
because I'm like, well, I wasgonna use that cup again, right,
or that glass again. But as soonas I recognized, oh, that
matters to you, and and itmatters to you in this way.
So, you know, I kind ofdiscovered in this example, it
didn't he didn't feel, like,considered. And so from that
point on, I was much moremindful. I'm like, oh, I can put
(09:12):
this away. Like, I was gonna usethis glass again, but what
matters more to me is that youfeel considered by me, so I'm
gonna make a a behavioralchange. But that could only
happen once I understood, oh,this matters to you.
You care about this. And untilthen, I'm like, okay. Well, I
(09:33):
don't care about it. I thinkthere's a real bravery in
claiming and telling people,well, this this is important to
me. So now another thing, my mymy current roommate really likes
it when we text each other whenwe're coming home.
It's super different for me. Ijust haven't done that basically
(09:53):
in my whole life. And and we hada conversation where I'm like,
oh, this really matters to you.This is a gesture that has
value. So then I have now cried.
You know what? You know, Iwouldn't say fairly good
success, but there are stillmoments where I get home and I'm
like, damn it. I didn't I didn'ttext. But mainly because I'm
(10:16):
like, oh, well, you matter to meand this matters to you. And so
it's a thing I can do.
I can sort of meet you in inyour care. I can hold I can try
to hold and understand what youcare about and then meet you in
that way because I care aboutyou.
Eric Bomyea (10:31):
Right. And that's why there there's so like the
two different types of care,they are kind of connected. I
care about this, and you careabout me to consider what I care
about. So in this case, roommateconsiders transparency of
communication, of protectingspace, right? And be like, hey,
(10:55):
you're coming home.
Just want to give you a heads upalerting the fact so that it's
not a surprise when somebodycomes in. That is something that
that person cares about. And youcare enough about that person to
be like, oh, well, that's notwhat I normally would do, but I
can do that. I can do that forthis person because I care about
them. And then they're receivingthat as this person cares about
(11:17):
me versus going back to I'llkeep it with my example of my
family.
Just don't feel the care becausethey're not showing up in the
way that I want them to. But thecritical thing is I have not had
that conversation with them.Like your roommate be like, hey,
I receive care in this way.Right? Like, this is really
(11:37):
important to me, and are youwilling to meet me in this way
to show me that you care?
Because you do care, but I'm notreceiving it as such.
Timothy Bish (11:49):
Well and right. So with these examples, if you were
to tell them and and help helpthem understand what you mean
and and and ways in which theycould demonstrate that, And then
they still don't do it or don'ttry to do it. Because the thing
is, it's funny with my roommateexample. Recently, it was like a
(12:09):
funny day where I had texted,like, two times coming home, and
he wasn't there. And it was,like, not a big deal.
You know? And then the one timeI forgot to text, he was home,
and I did interrupt him. And I'mlike, oh, I'm so like, I was
like, I was doing so well allday. But it was much softer
because, oh, I see your efforts.So I see that you you care
(12:34):
enough to try.
In which case then the lack ofperfection was more palatable
than, I'm not trying at all. Sonow this is super annoying.
Right? So with your family, it'sempowering them to know what you
need. And also, I think there'sa part of it recognizing
people's capacity So they maynot be able to give you
(12:57):
everything you need or exactlyhow you need it.
And then you have to think aboutwhat's what's the minimum amount
that I'm willing to acceptbecause you care about them.
Right? It's funny because, youknow, like, I love my mother. I
love my mom so much. And she hasa communication style that
sometimes is, like, tricky forme.
(13:19):
And I I have to, like, have to,like, weather. Like, well, I
care about you enough that Ican, like, I can manage it in
this way for this long, youknow, because I don't think
that's gonna change. My mothertoo. Boys talking about our
moms. Right.
Gable was talking Gable wastalking about
Eric Bomyea (13:35):
her moms. I've had to really come to terms. And
there's a woman in town. Hername is Myra. She runs an art
studio and she also teaches asound bath at the yoga joint on
Wednesday nights.
And her and I have had a lot ofopportunities to connect. This
topic actually came up recentlywith us where she saw something
was weighing on me. She goes,how's your relationship with
(13:57):
your family? And I said, reallydistant. And I explained the
situation and kind of like, theydon't always meet me in the ways
that I want to be cared for.
And she's like, well, have youconsidered just accepting what
they're giving you and justbeing Okay with it? And she gave
the example. She's like, if yourdad calls you up on the phone,
(14:18):
instead of your attitude being,oh, it's my dad. He's not gonna
meet me the way that I meet thatI need to be met. Hello.
Versus, oh, my dad's calling. Hemust really care about me. Hi.
Mhmm. Right?
Like, instant change. But thatrequires, you were saying, it
requires work and it requires abenefit of the doubt that some
(14:39):
people are going to be more, Idon't know if advanced is the
right word, but a little bitmore aware or mindful of these
types of concepts. And sometimesit is, yes, I could have a
preference. I could absolutelyhave a preference and a way in
which I default receive love andcare. But can I also be filled
up when it's not that?
(15:00):
Like if I really love qualitytime and that fills me up, woo.
Right? But that's not how what Iget all the time. Mhmm. Like,
can I still, like, acknowledgethat that person cares?
Timothy Bish (15:13):
Yeah. And I think I think recognizing general,
like, aptitudes, its capacities,and things like that, if we use
the example of flexibility,given that we're both yoga
teachers, you and I both knowthat students walk into the room
with wildly different, you know,flexibility. Physical and
mental. That's what so I'm justsaying, like, mental, emotional
(15:35):
flexibility is also a thing, andit's a thing, I think, that
maybe some people have a morenatural aptitude than others,
but it's also a thing that canbe practiced and and honed,
whatever, which we've seenthrough people who practice yoga
regularly. Even really tightpeople start to open up.
Things start to shift andchange. Right? That could be
(15:56):
true too. But can you imaginebeing, like, the really tight
person walking into a yoga classand having the teacher be like,
well, you can't meet me in afull split. So I have a feeling
about that.
You're you're like, no. You sorecognizing, okay. Well, where
can you meet me? And and this isinteresting because we don't
wanna excuse bad behavior orcertainly not abuse. And that's
(16:22):
why I think the effort goes along way.
Oh, you keep showing up. You'rereally committed to trying this
thing. That, I think, goes sucha long way. Because because why?
Because, oh, well then that's ademonstration that you care.
It's not necessarily ademonstration that you are
capable of doing a particularthing, but that you care enough
(16:43):
to keep trying, keep honing thatskill. And that really goes a
long way for me.
Eric Bomyea (16:49):
Demonstrating that you're listening when somebody
communicates that to you, whenthey communicate a preference.
Sometimes it might be a hardline. Most of the times, I hope
that it can be a preference thatwe can have a conversation
about, like roommate example. Iwould prefer that you text me on
your way home. And two out ofthree times, you did it.
(17:11):
Demonstrating care. And so Ithink the demonstration of
effort comes through aconversation though and a
revealing of expectations onboth sides.
Timothy Bish (17:22):
Yeah. So I'm gonna share a story now about a very
dear friend of mine. I'm gonnause his name. My good friend
Gordon, who I love you.
Eric Bomyea (17:31):
Gloria. We love you, Gloria.
Timothy Bish (17:34):
Yeah. So my friend Gordon, and recently, I I got
really annoyed with him becauseI I I went out of my way to see
him twice. I invited him tobrunch, he couldn't come because
he had to work. Then I saw himfor a quick coffee. And then I
went by the bar where he wasworking to see him again.
And afterwards, he gave me thistext message. And I got really
frustrated because I'm like, Icare about you so much. I tell
(17:54):
you that I care about you. Like,why why are we, you know, why
are you questioning it? Youknow?
Anyway, the long story short wasthat I later came to realize I'm
like, oh, I feel really clearabout how much I care about
Gordon. I can feel it becauseit's my emotional and physical
sensational experience. And I'mthe only one who can feel it
(18:16):
because it's mine. Right? Like,the world would be different if
we could feel other people'semotions, you know, in that same
way.
So I'm like, oh, I'm annoyedbecause I know I know it with
every fiber of my being. Butthen I realized I'm like, but
that doesn't mean he knows it.And then I also thought, and I
have a tendency to have a hardtime trusting that people do
care about me. So if anyoneshould be able to relate to that
(18:39):
experience, it should be me.Right?
And so I was like, oh, I get it.And, you know, because because
there are big changes coming,I'm like, Gordon's, you know,
afraid of missing me and heloves me. And everything shifted
with that realization. And I waslike, I just need to I've been
using the word love bomb. Mhmm.
(19:00):
But like, I just need toreassure him and every other
person that I love deeply that Ilove them deeply. I have to
remind them that I care aboutthem, and I'm trying to do that
now in ways that I think theycan hear because the the the
essence of it hasn't changed.I've I've loved and cared about
Gordon and so many other peoplefor a long time. But did I go
(19:25):
out of my way to say it in,like, obvious ways? Or not even
obvious ways.
It would have maybe felt obviousto me, but in ways that they
needed. And then, of course, Iwas attached to well, I did
this, though, and I did this,like which felt obvious obvious
shares of of care to me. Andthat's, like, the whole, like,
love language thing to be like,okay. Well, just because it's
(19:47):
obvious to you does not meanit's obvious to someone else.
And if you care enough, which Ido, I'm like, can I do something
else?
So it has paid off. Gordon isout Gordon, I love you. If
you're listening to thisepisode, I love you. I love you
very much.
Eric Bomyea (20:01):
He's two weeks behind, so Gordon is two weeks.
Yeah.
Timothy Bish (20:04):
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, in two weeks from now,
I'll still love you. When you'relistening to this, I'll still
love you.
I love you. And, like,everything softened. Yeah. And I
was like, oh, all I all I had todo to make this situation better
was claim the thing I wasalready feeling. Right.
And I had to put aside, like,the annoyance that, oh, this
(20:26):
person can't mind read. Right.When I realized it when I
realized it, I started laughing.So I'm like, oh, right. Like,
I'm I'm I'm asking for a mindreading or a sense of my own
internal felt sense from anotherperson, none of these things
make any sense.
And so I kinda giggled, and thenI love bombed, showed care, and
(20:49):
everything softened.
Eric Bomyea (20:50):
Yeah. And it's a very clear example of, like, I
invited you to brunch, coffeewith you, and I stopped by to
see you. Those things, from yourperspective, signal care. But to
somebody else, that may notsignal care. There's a plethora
of different reasons as to why.
Sometimes it's like, okay, well,I want quality time and that's
(21:11):
not quality time to me. Right?And so I'm not seeing it as
care. And though switching it,recognizing it, powerful. So
powerful to be like, oh, we justhad different expectations or
different preferences aroundcare, but I do care about you.
So I want you to know that Ireally want you to bring this to
(21:32):
the surface, bring it out intothe open, and just let it be as
transparent as possible. I care.
Timothy Bish (21:38):
Well and I let's stay on this for a second
because, you know, we're in themiddle of Provincetown summer.
And so I do believe that Gordonand Gordon, you know, send me a
message when you listen to thisepisode, does really value
quality time. Right? And it'speat on summer that's hard to
come by, especially, you know,for townies who are working, the
(22:00):
the overlap. It's pretty tricky.
And so at some point then, wehave to we have to get
comfortable with accepting whatwe can do. So would I love a
three hour dinner with Gordonwhere we get to, like, go deep?
Yes. Do I think that's gonnahappen in July or August in
Provincetown? No.
So then so then the work becomesthis shared journey together of,
(22:24):
well, then can these littlestolen moments when I when I
drop into the bar, which I knowis nonoptimal considering the
depth of conversation that wewould like to have, but it's the
thing I can give. Like, is thatenough? Like and so and having
that conversation about can Ishow you in this way because I
can't quite show you careexactly how you want it right
now? What's interesting is itmight also be exactly how I want
(22:47):
it. Mhmm.
Anyone who's ever worked in ptown will immediately understand
what we're talking about. Thisis really tricky. We're all
really busy.
Eric Bomyea (22:55):
Yeah. And the overlap isn't great. And I
think, though, with thisexample, the beauty of the
transparency of communication Ithink goes such a long way. If
you're a sensitive peach like Iam, right, like, I bruise really
easily, and I take things superpersonally very quickly. I go
(23:16):
into story very quickly.
I have still so much work to doaround that. Right? While I'm
doing the work, can express topeople what it is I might be
wanting or needing and also thenuse that empathy to have been on
(23:38):
that receiving side to put thatout into the world to
transparently tell people, hey,I'm stopping by to see you for
five minutes because I reallycare about you. This is not
optimal. Can I actually saythose words out loud?
Timothy Bish (23:52):
Well, I mean and I wanna highlight for people
listening that, you know, Gordonis a man who is in the work. I
consider myself a man who's inthe work. We practice and we
communicate and we, you know,whatever. And it still took this
long. Mhmm.
So, you know, this is not aboutdoing these things perfectly.
It's about, you know, a constantsort of evolution. So I just
(24:12):
learned a thing, and I can onlynow start working with that
thing. I am gonna go makeanother story about my ex
husband. Mhmm.
When we were in couplescounseling, he had this
complaint that I would that Iwould reflect back words that he
said, and he felt like I wassort of pigeonholing him into
into things. Right? And I'mlike, well, that's what you said
to me. And he was he said, youknow, he said, oh, well, you
(24:36):
know, because I have anxiety, Iwill rehearse things in my head.
So usually when I say something,I feel pretty clear about it.
And it turned out that he ismore whiteboarding and kind of
working through it in in realtime in the moment. And so I
remember having this moment inin couples counseling where I'm
(24:56):
like, I didn't know that. So yousaid things, and I just believed
you. And I'm like, now I do knowit. So now I can start to keep
it that in mind.
I said, but I can only startdoing that right now. I'm I just
learned that thing. So I can'tgo back and undo all the times I
reflected back and not knowingit. I just learned it now. So I
(25:19):
think part of the practice iseven when there are hurt
feelings or disappointments, youdidn't show up in the way I
wanted you to.
Like, those feelings andexperiences are real, but you
can only act on a realizationonce you've had it. And so then
can we be patient? So the thingwith that's why I started
laughing with Gordon where I'mlike, initially, I was
(25:40):
frustrated. Of course, I fuckinglove you. Like, what?
You know? And then you have therealization, and you're like,
oh, okay. Well, now with this, Ican be totally different, or I
can try to be I can start theprocess of of practicing in a
different way. Saying all thatjust to highlight this work is
an ongoing, blooming, evolving.And even when you have people
(26:05):
both people in a relationshipdoing this work, it can still be
bumpy.
There can still beuncertainties, and there can be
periods of time where you arenot meeting each other. And
sometimes periods of time whereyou're not meeting each other,
and you don't even realizeyou're not fully meeting the
other person. And so you have tobe willing to consider a new
possibility in light of newevidence. Right? Oh, I just
(26:28):
realized a thing.
I just realized a way that I canmeet Gordon. Can I start doing
that now because I care abouthim? But the thing is I couldn't
do it any sooner than merealizing it.
Eric Bomyea (26:39):
I think this goes back to one of the first things
you said. Care also, you have totrust that person. You have to
trust that person can go alongwith you and trust that we can
weather the storm, that we canfigure this out, that we can
consciously choose over and overagain to continue to reveal, to
(27:02):
be vulnerable with somebody, tocontinue to reveal, I care about
this. Right. Or this is the wayin which I receive care or
whatever it might be, whateverthe conversation is, can we be
vulnerable with people to let usin?
And then can we trust that thatperson, like, even when they get
it, quote unquote, wrong,
Timothy Bish (27:21):
still cares. Well, this example with Gordon is so
perfect because he diddemonstrate care for me by
sending me these text messagesthat I found frustrating. He was
telling me what he what he wasfeeling and what he wanted. He
was telling them to me in a waythat, like, I didn't love, but
also I didn't realize untillater. And like, oh, because he
(27:44):
he can't feel the love I have.
So just exactly what you said.And even when it's working,
you're like, oh, this persontried to communicate with me.
They did communicate with me. Itstill might take a minute to
kind of land and say, wait. Whatwhat is actually happening here?
Why am I annoyed? What's goingon? What do they need? What are
(28:09):
they really saying? You know?
Eric Bomyea (28:11):
Or that we can reveal the better chances we
have of meeting each other.That's a long journey. That's a
long journey to be able to fullyreveal exactly what it is that
we're trying to communicate orwhat it is that we're wanting or
needing.
Timothy Bish (28:25):
I mean, sometimes we don't even know. It takes
time to figure out the nuance.
Eric Bomyea (28:30):
Because even in that example, I think, like, how
specific was he in that messageabout, like, this is what
happened. This is what I wouldprefer. Right? I don't recall,
but I don't think from what Ihear from you saying it wasn't
like black and white. It wasn'ta black and white like, I need
this.
It was I'm frustrated because.
Timothy Bish (28:50):
I mean, he was in the same process I was in.
Right? So he was telling me howhe was feeling. Right. And some
of like, part of why I gotannoyed was like at one point,
he he said, you seem defensive.
And, like and I'm like, oh,that's but now that in
reflection, I'm like, that'sprobably right. That probably
that is how he felt. Right? Ittook longer to recognize, oh,
(29:13):
we're we're just gonna miss eachother, and I need I just need to
remind you how much I love you.That that took that took time.
Yeah. The we're gonna movethrough this life, and it's
going to be rare that we get theperfect communication that we
need. That's gonna be rare. Ithink just generally rare. It's
(29:33):
definitely not gonna happenevery time even if the person is
attempting to do it.
And so we have to have someleeway for ourselves and for
others. Oh, it took me this longto have this realization. Okay.
Well, that's how long it took,and now now I have it. Now what
do I do with it?
Eric Bomyea (29:49):
Work on it together. You can work on work
on it individually and togetherto come together and really,
like, love bomb each each other.
Timothy Bish (29:58):
Yeah. Another reason why it felt so silly
later was I'm like, I absolutelylove you. I have a ton of love
in my heart for lots of people,and I'm never sad when I tell
them. And I am really busy, andI know that I have a I can at
times have a very, like, matterof fact manner of engagement.
Mhmm.
You know? I'm well, you know,I'm a yoga teacher. I'm a
fitness instructor. Like,oftentimes, I'm controlling a
(30:20):
room. That's part you know?
Left foot goes here. Step yourleft foot forward. Yeah. Like,
so I I recognize it about me,and and so then I had to remind
myself of that too. Oh, okay.
Well, that feels commonplace,day to day business for me.
Maybe it feels edgy, defensive,uncomfortable, lacking a warmth
(30:45):
that a person who's desperatefor some warmth would really
like. Again, this, like, makesme wanna laugh because, you
know, as soon as therealization, I'm like, I can
just tell you how much I loveyou. I can do that I can do that
every day. Mhmm.
We did not plan on having thisconversation, but I would like
this episode to be theunofficial love letter from me
(31:06):
to Gordon or from us to Gordon,but me in particular. I, Gord,
they love you. I'm so gladyou're in my life. Sorry it took
me this long to to recognize away in which I can meet you. But
I recognize it now, so I'm gonnakeep working with it.
Eric Bomyea (31:22):
And hopefully, you'll stick with me through it.
This reminds me of probably myfavorite Garth Brooks song.
Timothy Bish (31:29):
Okay. Garth Brooks, here we go.
Eric Bomyea (31:32):
Yeah. If Tomorrow Never Comes.
Timothy Bish (31:36):
Wait. Are you gonna try to make us cry?
Eric Bomyea (31:38):
No. Because this is maybe. Mean, like, it's
connected to that, and it issomething that I try to remind
myself and live by because I'velost loved ones in my life who
never knew how much I love them.Now I live with the regret that
my true feelings for them neverwere revealed. So I made a
(31:58):
promise to myself to say eachday how much she means to me and
avoid that circumstance wherethere's no second chance to tell
her how I feel.
As if tomorrow never comes, willshe know how much I loved her?
And so it's an opportunity andmy hope, prayer, wish for
(32:18):
everyone here is that you tellpeople how much you care about
them. Because the truth is wedon't always feel it. We do not
always feel when other peoplecare about us. And so it does go
a long way to boldly communicateit to them.
And then it doesn't have to be Ilove you.
Timothy Bish (32:40):
But it could I say I appreciate you.
Eric Bomyea (32:41):
Yeah.
Timothy Bish (32:42):
And I say it a lot. It's part of my practice.
Eric Bomyea (32:43):
And I think that goes a long way
Timothy Bish (32:44):
for people. Well, some people think it's crazy.
Whatever. Right.
Eric Bomyea (32:48):
But, like, that's that's the way that you show
care.
Timothy Bish (32:51):
Well, it's also a practice. Yeah. Because I it's
the same idea, which is sort offunny now with the the story
story with Gordon, which isthat's a thing I've been
practicing. And this is abeautiful reminder of like, oh,
well, I've been spiralingthrough this practice as we do
with most of them. And it tookme into this point to get, like,
another layer, another view.
(33:11):
That is how I have experienced alot of my practice and a lot of
how my teachers have talkedabout it. We come back to the
same thing. We're doing, youknow, Asana. We're doing breath.
We're doing meditation.
We're doing you know? Andthrough repetition, things get
revealed. Think about things youunderstand now through years of
(33:32):
practice that you it would havebeen hard for you to even wrap
your head around on day one.That's part of it. It's actually
a beautiful part
Eric Bomyea (33:40):
of it. It's a beautiful opportunity. Revisit
it, see what's changed, see whatmight need to be adjusted, to
make sure that it's still doingthe intended purpose, right?
That practice has an intendedpurpose. If telling people, I
appreciate you, the intendedpurpose is to show people I care
about you and I want to expressthat verbally so that it's very
(34:03):
clear, sometimes that's notlanding.
And it's an opportunity to like,oh, well, here's a different
perspective of it. Maybe Iswitched it up, maybe I changed
it, whatever it might be. Ormaybe I say it more frequently,
whatever it is. You'reabsolutely right. It is a
beautiful part of practicingsomething, seeing it from a
different side, seeing it from adifferent angle, adjusting as
(34:24):
necessary.
I think about low lunge. I hadbeen doing yoga for almost
fifteen years before I realizedI could move my hips in
different directions to lower myhips. I pull my right hip back.
I press my left hip forward, andthen my my hips drop down. What?
Timothy Bish (34:39):
Wait. When did you discover that?
Eric Bomyea (34:41):
It was wild just recently. I think it was
probably in one of your classes.Yeah. It was within the last two
years. Yeah.
And I've been doing yoga forover a decade at that point. And
I was like, woah. But that'sback to something over and over
and over again and discoveringnuances.
Timothy Bish (34:58):
Yeah. There's this teaching in ballet where they
would talk about, you know,whenever you do, like, a
developpe, essentially liftingyour leg up, you know, which
obviously lots of ballet dancersdo and, you know, ballerinas in
particular. And they used tosay, you know, lift your leg not
from the top of your leg, butfrom the bottom of your leg. And
(35:19):
anatomically, that doesn'treally make any sense. You're
like, the way that the muscleswork, you know, this is what's
responsible for hip flexion andthis is what's responsible for
knee flexion.
You know? But I remember, youknow, years into my training
getting a sort of a sensation.And I'm like, oh, I think that's
what they mean, that sensationthat changed my intentionality
(35:44):
around doing this thing. But itwas only from, like, hearing it
over and over again and thinkingabout it and trying and trying
and trying until one day you'relike, oh, I got I got a new
perspective on that. Now, Inever had great developes.
So I had my own strengths.
Eric Bomyea (36:02):
What if a teacher thought that by you not hitting
that develop a was a way of notappreciating them? Right?
Timothy Bish (36:09):
Like It's all about the effort. I think I
think dance teachers, even thestrictest sort of like sharpest
of them, recognize the effort.It's a little bit like, oh, I
want you to do I want you to dosix pirouettes. Okay. Cool.
If I can't do that right now,doesn't mean I'm not trying or
(36:30):
that I don't care about what youjust said. Are you trying goes a
long way. Yeah. I don't thinkany of my dance teachers did
that. Mhmm.
Thank god because these take along time. So if you ask me for
six birouettes, I'll just tellyou how much I love you.
Eric Bomyea (36:47):
Well, I can't do that, but I can do it, and I
care about you.
Timothy Bish (36:50):
I care about your teachings. That's right. You
matter to me. And I can keeptrying if you want.
Eric Bomyea (36:56):
With that, I feel inclined to say, I care about
you. I care about you, Chad. Iknow that you're gonna be
watching this, editing it forus. So just getting it out there
into the universe. I care aboutyou.
Timothy Bish (37:08):
Thank you. I think that we need to bring more
communication around our care.Because my life is an example.
There are so many people that Ihave care for, levels of care
for. And I'm gonna bring upanother example, so we're we're
dropping all the names.
(37:29):
There's an unbelievable womannamed Linda at the coffee pot.
Linda? It's the coffee shop.What's the name of that plaza?
Portuguese Square.
Yes. In Provincetown. And Ihave, for the last two years,
been going there to get my icedcoffee because it is the biggest
iced coffee in P town. So it'sreally great deal. And I have
(37:51):
now created a relationship with,like, the the woman who's there
mainly.
We talk every day now. We have anice interaction. She sees me.
She's sometimes making my coffeebefore I've even walked through
the door. Right?
Sweet. We it's just really,really great. And so do I care
about Linda the way I care aboutmy mom or the way that I care
(38:14):
about my life purpose? No.Probably not.
But do I care about Linda in away that matters and that I
think is important to me and Ithink is important to her? Yes.
Yes. And so and I actually knowone like, the moment our
relationship, Linda and I, themoment our relationship deepened
was when I I said to her, I'mlike, these summer this was last
(38:35):
summer. I'm like, these summersare really intense for me.
And seeing your face every dayhas been like a bull a bolster
or a buttress for me. I reallyappreciate how nice you are to
me in the morning when I'm gonnastart a really demanding and
sometimes unbelievably lonelyday. We were already familiar
(38:56):
with each other, but but I thinkthat my declaration of, like,
you matter to me and here's anexample of why, like, deepened
it. I'm sweetie now. Like, she'sjust know what I mean?
It's like we have a whole thing.We have a whole thing. Anyway,
Linda, if you're listening Mhmm.I mean I don't know if you're
listening, but if you arelistening, I care about you, and
thank you for all the thingsyou've done for me.
Eric Bomyea (39:18):
Well, I'm feeling very complete.
Timothy Bish (39:20):
Oh, I'm I'm feeling complete too.
Eric Bomyea (39:22):
Will you take a sow, please?
Timothy Bish (39:23):
Yes. Let's close our eyes and just draw our
awareness inward for a secondbecause we care about our bodies
and our intuition. And it iswith deep appreciation and
gratitude for any insights,understandings, or awarenesses
that may have been gainedthrough this conversation in the
(39:45):
shared sacred space that we nowrelease the archangels and the
spirits that we called in. Andwith these words, container is
open but not broken. Uh-huh.
Welcome back to The Circle, the podcast where we go
all in on men's work, embodimentpractices, and personal growth
from our queer perspective. Ifyou're enjoying the show, please
subscribe and leave us a review.And if you're curious about the
work that we do or the practicesthat we've mentioned on the
show, head on over tomyembodiment.com where you can
practice meditation, breathwork, and yoga with us in real
time. And you can ask us aquestion about anything you've
(00:27):
heard us talk about here on theshow. That's myembodiment.com.
Now, on to today's show. In thisepisode, we're asking, why might
someone struggle to recognize oraccept care even when it's
freely offered? The love beinggiven is real, but it doesn't
land for some reason. Maybe it'snot shown in the way that we
expect or maybe it stirs up oldwounds. Whatever it is, we know
(00:49):
that it can be frustrating onboth sides.
And so that's where we're goingtoday. Tim, are you ready to go
all in?
Timothy Bish (00:55):
I'm ready. All right.
Eric Bomyea (00:56):
So let's do this. This is a topic that's near to
my sensitive little heart here,care.
Timothy Bish (01:02):
Oh, is it? It
Eric Bomyea (01:03):
is. Okay. And I've mentioned it a couple of times
on this show that I have adistant relationship with my
family. And a lot of that comesdown to a narrative that I've
told myself over and over again,subconsciously, consciously
sometimes as well, that theyjust don't care or that they
just don't get me. And the truthis, the real reality is they do
(01:23):
care.
They do love me. They just showit in a way that I don't always
receive. I don't always receivetheir love in a way that signals
to me I am cared for. And anexample of this would be at
Christmas, this past Christmas,where I didn't receive a formal
invitation. I didn't receive aphone call.
(01:44):
Nobody called me up and said,Hey, I want you to come to
Christmas this year. It's atthis time, this place. Will you
please come? It was, in myopinion, a passive aggressive
remark halfway through aChristmas phone call where it
was like, Oh, would have beennice if you would have been
here.
Timothy Bish (01:59):
I remember you saying that. Yep.
Eric Bomyea (02:01):
And so that just didn't land. And I know that
underneath it all, underneaththe tone, underneath all of it
was a true sincere desire for meto join them. And there was
sadness, and there may have beensome whatevers in the way. I get
that. I can intellectuallyunderstand that.
Emotionally, though, I don'talways see that, and I don't
(02:21):
always feel that. And so that'sthe topic of today's
conversation is why do you thinkit's so hard for someone to
actually receive or receive carethat's right in front of them?
Timothy Bish (02:31):
I believe that care requires vulnerability.
Part of the reason I think itmight be tricky for people to
express their care is because ittakes an enormous amount of
courage to tell a thing aboutyourself that you that matters.
Right? Even even a tiny thing. Ireally like that TV show.
(02:56):
I really like you know, maybesomething that isn't that
important, but you're you'rerevealing, oh, there's something
about this that matters to me.The more people know what
matters, you know, like, the themore vulnerable we become. Oh,
if you know what matters to me,you might potentially disagree
(03:16):
with it, push back against it,use it against me, any any
number of things. I think carerequires a vulnerability, a
bravery, a courage. And I thinkwe live in a world where we're
not really trained or taught toreally show that in in lot a lot
(03:36):
of ways.
And it's portrayed as very sexyto be mysterious and aloof and
to not care. How many figuresfrom movies are are the person
who's so cool because they justdon't care? Right? And that's a
big part of their identity.Like, the thing that makes them
cool is that they don't care.
(03:58):
I don't care about if you likemy outfit. I don't care if you
know? And so I think we'veglamorized not caring, and we
haven't practiced caring andrecognizing care and respecting
care. Because I remember onetime, you know, I was, this has
happened a few times in my lifewhere I had a thing coming up,
(04:22):
and someone would try to comfortme by basically telling me,
well, don't be so nervous. It'snot that big a deal.
And I remember thinking, well,the fact that you don't care
about a thing I care aboutdoesn't make it easier for me to
care less about it. Now I'mmildly annoyed as opposed to
(04:44):
recognize that it matters andthen go from there. Right? So,
oh, it's just you know, Iremember early in my early in my
teaching, which feels crazy nowbecause it's, like, two decades
ago, and I was so nervous that Iwas like, oh, they asked me to
sub for this senior teacher.Like, can I do it?
And I expressed being nervous,and my friend was, you know,
(05:06):
it's just a yoga class. Your thefact that you don't care about
it or that you don't think it,like, merits a certain level of
care hasn't changed that I do.And so now I just feel like you
haven't seen or held me and andmy situation what I care about.
And then you've then you're leftlike well, so and I think that
(05:26):
then lends it to, well, thenmaybe I'll be more guarded with
what I what I share with people.Because when I tell
Eric Bomyea (05:33):
you I care about something and I get that
response, it is incentivizing meto not tell you about things I
care about because I can't trustyou. That is it's part of what I
mentioned. Like, it'sfrustrating on both sides. Like,
that person may still care aboutyou. Right?
That person that was saying, oh,it's just a yoga class. They may
still deeply care about you. Butthe way that they're expressing
(05:55):
their care in that moment isn'tlanding for you.
Timothy Bish (05:59):
Right. Well, we should be clear about, like,
what we mean by care. Sure.Because I care about how I show
up when I teach yoga. I careabout how I show up when I'm
doing the embodiment circle orthe sharing circle.
I mean, these are things that Icare about. And that isn't the
same thing exactly as do I careabout this person. So maybe for
(06:19):
the for the remainder of thisepisode, we should talk about,
like, interpersonal love.Because, yes, I believe that
that person does care about meor that they love me, and they
and they want good things forme. But they didn't recognize
that I cared about this thing,and that's why I was nervous.
Telling me that you don't careabout it is the least helpful
(06:41):
thing because it hasn't changedanything except now I know you
don't care about it. But do theylove me? Sure.
Eric Bomyea (06:47):
That's that's like my Christmas example. That's not
the the the response that Ineeded from my family. Right? I
needed to receive their carefully for me and my emotions and
my nervous system. I needed tofeel them.
I needed to feel their care in away that I could hear. And that
(07:08):
would have looked like, hey, Ireally want you at Christmas
this year, and that's not what Igot. Mhmm. But underneath it, I
know that that's what they weretrying to say. And so if I care
about family time or care aboutquality time, I still think that
there's a way that we can meeteach other.
And I think that there's a waythat we can, both as the giver
(07:30):
and the receiver of care, we canhave some sensitivities to what
it is that we're trying toexpress or what it is this
person might be trying toexpress to us. And can we hold
it with a little bit lesspreference sometimes and more
with an openness of like, okay,Do I trust that this person
(07:51):
loves me? Yes. Do they are theyresonating with the thing that I
care about so much right now?No.
However, doesn't mean that theycare about me any less.
Timothy Bish (08:03):
And I think understanding a person's care
can help you meet them. I'mgonna give an example with my ex
husband. We were in couplescounseling, and the or, you
know, we could we couldcritique, like, the the
robustness of our communicationat times. But it it came out
that he would be annoyed that Iwould leave my glass that I
(08:27):
drank my iced coffee out of oneither on the sink or the on the
coffee table. And when we hadthis conversation where we,
like, unpacked it, it was clearthat we both had, like,
different so he was like, I seethis.
This feels like a lack ofconsideration or care. And so
what he would do is he wouldkeep putting it away as, like, a
silent sort of teaching, kindatrain me to understand. You
(08:49):
know? And I would come home andbe annoyed he put it away
because I'm like, well, I wasgonna use that cup again, right,
or that glass again. But as soonas I recognized, oh, that
matters to you, and and itmatters to you in this way.
So, you know, I kind ofdiscovered in this example, it
didn't he didn't feel, like,considered. And so from that
point on, I was much moremindful. I'm like, oh, I can put
(09:12):
this away. Like, I was gonna usethis glass again, but what
matters more to me is that youfeel considered by me, so I'm
gonna make a a behavioralchange. But that could only
happen once I understood, oh,this matters to you.
You care about this. And untilthen, I'm like, okay. Well, I
(09:33):
don't care about it. I thinkthere's a real bravery in
claiming and telling people,well, this this is important to
me. So now another thing, my mymy current roommate really likes
it when we text each other whenwe're coming home.
It's super different for me. Ijust haven't done that basically
(09:53):
in my whole life. And and we hada conversation where I'm like,
oh, this really matters to you.This is a gesture that has
value. So then I have now cried.
You know what? You know, Iwouldn't say fairly good
success, but there are stillmoments where I get home and I'm
like, damn it. I didn't I didn'ttext. But mainly because I'm
(10:16):
like, oh, well, you matter to meand this matters to you. And so
it's a thing I can do.
I can sort of meet you in inyour care. I can hold I can try
to hold and understand what youcare about and then meet you in
that way because I care aboutyou.
Eric Bomyea (10:31):
Right. And that's why there there's so like the
two different types of care,they are kind of connected. I
care about this, and you careabout me to consider what I care
about. So in this case, roommateconsiders transparency of
communication, of protectingspace, right? And be like, hey,
(10:55):
you're coming home.
Just want to give you a heads upalerting the fact so that it's
not a surprise when somebodycomes in. That is something that
that person cares about. And youcare enough about that person to
be like, oh, well, that's notwhat I normally would do, but I
can do that. I can do that forthis person because I care about
them. And then they're receivingthat as this person cares about
(11:17):
me versus going back to I'llkeep it with my example of my
family.
Just don't feel the care becausethey're not showing up in the
way that I want them to. But thecritical thing is I have not had
that conversation with them.Like your roommate be like, hey,
I receive care in this way.Right? Like, this is really
(11:37):
important to me, and are youwilling to meet me in this way
to show me that you care?
Because you do care, but I'm notreceiving it as such.
Timothy Bish (11:49):
Well and right. So with these examples, if you were
to tell them and and help helpthem understand what you mean
and and and ways in which theycould demonstrate that, And then
they still don't do it or don'ttry to do it. Because the thing
is, it's funny with my roommateexample. Recently, it was like a
(12:09):
funny day where I had texted,like, two times coming home, and
he wasn't there. And it was,like, not a big deal.
You know? And then the one timeI forgot to text, he was home,
and I did interrupt him. And I'mlike, oh, I'm so like, I was
like, I was doing so well allday. But it was much softer
because, oh, I see your efforts.So I see that you you care
(12:34):
enough to try.
In which case then the lack ofperfection was more palatable
than, I'm not trying at all. Sonow this is super annoying.
Right? So with your family, it'sempowering them to know what you
need. And also, I think there'sa part of it recognizing
people's capacity So they maynot be able to give you
(12:57):
everything you need or exactlyhow you need it.
And then you have to think aboutwhat's what's the minimum amount
that I'm willing to acceptbecause you care about them.
Right? It's funny because, youknow, like, I love my mother. I
love my mom so much. And she hasa communication style that
sometimes is, like, tricky forme.
(13:19):
And I I have to, like, have to,like, weather. Like, well, I
care about you enough that Ican, like, I can manage it in
this way for this long, youknow, because I don't think
that's gonna change. My mothertoo. Boys talking about our
moms. Right.
Gable was talking Gable wastalking about
Eric Bomyea (13:35):
her moms. I've had to really come to terms. And
there's a woman in town. Hername is Myra. She runs an art
studio and she also teaches asound bath at the yoga joint on
Wednesday nights.
And her and I have had a lot ofopportunities to connect. This
topic actually came up recentlywith us where she saw something
was weighing on me. She goes,how's your relationship with
(13:57):
your family? And I said, reallydistant. And I explained the
situation and kind of like, theydon't always meet me in the ways
that I want to be cared for.
And she's like, well, have youconsidered just accepting what
they're giving you and justbeing Okay with it? And she gave
the example. She's like, if yourdad calls you up on the phone,
(14:18):
instead of your attitude being,oh, it's my dad. He's not gonna
meet me the way that I meet thatI need to be met. Hello.
Versus, oh, my dad's calling. Hemust really care about me. Hi.
Mhmm. Right?
Like, instant change. But thatrequires, you were saying, it
requires work and it requires abenefit of the doubt that some
(14:39):
people are going to be more, Idon't know if advanced is the
right word, but a little bitmore aware or mindful of these
types of concepts. And sometimesit is, yes, I could have a
preference. I could absolutelyhave a preference and a way in
which I default receive love andcare. But can I also be filled
up when it's not that?
(15:00):
Like if I really love qualitytime and that fills me up, woo.
Right? But that's not how what Iget all the time. Mhmm. Like,
can I still, like, acknowledgethat that person cares?
Timothy Bish (15:13):
Yeah. And I think I think recognizing general,
like, aptitudes, its capacities,and things like that, if we use
the example of flexibility,given that we're both yoga
teachers, you and I both knowthat students walk into the room
with wildly different, you know,flexibility. Physical and
mental. That's what so I'm justsaying, like, mental, emotional
(15:35):
flexibility is also a thing, andit's a thing, I think, that
maybe some people have a morenatural aptitude than others,
but it's also a thing that canbe practiced and and honed,
whatever, which we've seenthrough people who practice yoga
regularly. Even really tightpeople start to open up.
Things start to shift andchange. Right? That could be
(15:56):
true too. But can you imaginebeing, like, the really tight
person walking into a yoga classand having the teacher be like,
well, you can't meet me in afull split. So I have a feeling
about that.
You're you're like, no. You sorecognizing, okay. Well, where
can you meet me? And and this isinteresting because we don't
wanna excuse bad behavior orcertainly not abuse. And that's
(16:22):
why I think the effort goes along way.
Oh, you keep showing up. You'rereally committed to trying this
thing. That, I think, goes sucha long way. Because because why?
Because, oh, well then that's ademonstration that you care.
It's not necessarily ademonstration that you are
capable of doing a particularthing, but that you care enough
(16:43):
to keep trying, keep honing thatskill. And that really goes a
long way for me.
Eric Bomyea (16:49):
Demonstrating that you're listening when somebody
communicates that to you, whenthey communicate a preference.
Sometimes it might be a hardline. Most of the times, I hope
that it can be a preference thatwe can have a conversation
about, like roommate example. Iwould prefer that you text me on
your way home. And two out ofthree times, you did it.
(17:11):
Demonstrating care. And so Ithink the demonstration of
effort comes through aconversation though and a
revealing of expectations onboth sides.
Timothy Bish (17:22):
Yeah. So I'm gonna share a story now about a very
dear friend of mine. I'm gonnause his name. My good friend
Gordon, who I love you.
Eric Bomyea (17:31):
Gloria. We love you, Gloria.
Timothy Bish (17:34):
Yeah. So my friend Gordon, and recently, I I got
really annoyed with him becauseI I I went out of my way to see
him twice. I invited him tobrunch, he couldn't come because
he had to work. Then I saw himfor a quick coffee. And then I
went by the bar where he wasworking to see him again.
And afterwards, he gave me thistext message. And I got really
frustrated because I'm like, Icare about you so much. I tell
(17:54):
you that I care about you. Like,why why are we, you know, why
are you questioning it? Youknow?
Anyway, the long story short wasthat I later came to realize I'm
like, oh, I feel really clearabout how much I care about
Gordon. I can feel it becauseit's my emotional and physical
sensational experience. And I'mthe only one who can feel it
(18:16):
because it's mine. Right? Like,the world would be different if
we could feel other people'semotions, you know, in that same
way.
So I'm like, oh, I'm annoyedbecause I know I know it with
every fiber of my being. Butthen I realized I'm like, but
that doesn't mean he knows it.And then I also thought, and I
have a tendency to have a hardtime trusting that people do
care about me. So if anyoneshould be able to relate to that
(18:39):
experience, it should be me.Right?
And so I was like, oh, I get it.And, you know, because because
there are big changes coming,I'm like, Gordon's, you know,
afraid of missing me and heloves me. And everything shifted
with that realization. And I waslike, I just need to I've been
using the word love bomb. Mhmm.
(19:00):
But like, I just need toreassure him and every other
person that I love deeply that Ilove them deeply. I have to
remind them that I care aboutthem, and I'm trying to do that
now in ways that I think theycan hear because the the the
essence of it hasn't changed.I've I've loved and cared about
Gordon and so many other peoplefor a long time. But did I go
(19:25):
out of my way to say it in,like, obvious ways? Or not even
obvious ways.
It would have maybe felt obviousto me, but in ways that they
needed. And then, of course, Iwas attached to well, I did
this, though, and I did this,like which felt obvious obvious
shares of of care to me. Andthat's, like, the whole, like,
love language thing to be like,okay. Well, just because it's
(19:47):
obvious to you does not meanit's obvious to someone else.
And if you care enough, which Ido, I'm like, can I do something
else?
So it has paid off. Gordon isout Gordon, I love you. If
you're listening to thisepisode, I love you. I love you
very much.
Eric Bomyea (20:01):
He's two weeks behind, so Gordon is two weeks.
Yeah.
Timothy Bish (20:04):
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, in two weeks from now,
I'll still love you. When you'relistening to this, I'll still
love you.
I love you. And, like,everything softened. Yeah. And I
was like, oh, all I all I had todo to make this situation better
was claim the thing I wasalready feeling. Right.
And I had to put aside, like,the annoyance that, oh, this
(20:26):
person can't mind read. Right.When I realized it when I
realized it, I started laughing.So I'm like, oh, right. Like,
I'm I'm I'm asking for a mindreading or a sense of my own
internal felt sense from anotherperson, none of these things
make any sense.
And so I kinda giggled, and thenI love bombed, showed care, and
(20:49):
everything softened.
Eric Bomyea (20:50):
Yeah. And it's a very clear example of, like, I
invited you to brunch, coffeewith you, and I stopped by to
see you. Those things, from yourperspective, signal care. But to
somebody else, that may notsignal care. There's a plethora
of different reasons as to why.
Sometimes it's like, okay, well,I want quality time and that's
(21:11):
not quality time to me. Right?And so I'm not seeing it as
care. And though switching it,recognizing it, powerful. So
powerful to be like, oh, we justhad different expectations or
different preferences aroundcare, but I do care about you.
So I want you to know that Ireally want you to bring this to
(21:32):
the surface, bring it out intothe open, and just let it be as
transparent as possible. I care.
Timothy Bish (21:38):
Well and I let's stay on this for a second
because, you know, we're in themiddle of Provincetown summer.
And so I do believe that Gordonand Gordon, you know, send me a
message when you listen to thisepisode, does really value
quality time. Right? And it'speat on summer that's hard to
come by, especially, you know,for townies who are working, the
(22:00):
the overlap. It's pretty tricky.
And so at some point then, wehave to we have to get
comfortable with accepting whatwe can do. So would I love a
three hour dinner with Gordonwhere we get to, like, go deep?
Yes. Do I think that's gonnahappen in July or August in
Provincetown? No.
So then so then the work becomesthis shared journey together of,
(22:24):
well, then can these littlestolen moments when I when I
drop into the bar, which I knowis nonoptimal considering the
depth of conversation that wewould like to have, but it's the
thing I can give. Like, is thatenough? Like and so and having
that conversation about can Ishow you in this way because I
can't quite show you careexactly how you want it right
now? What's interesting is itmight also be exactly how I want
(22:47):
it. Mhmm.
Anyone who's ever worked in ptown will immediately understand
what we're talking about. Thisis really tricky. We're all
really busy.
Eric Bomyea (22:55):
Yeah. And the overlap isn't great. And I
think, though, with thisexample, the beauty of the
transparency of communication Ithink goes such a long way. If
you're a sensitive peach like Iam, right, like, I bruise really
easily, and I take things superpersonally very quickly. I go
(23:16):
into story very quickly.
I have still so much work to doaround that. Right? While I'm
doing the work, can express topeople what it is I might be
wanting or needing and also thenuse that empathy to have been on
(23:38):
that receiving side to put thatout into the world to
transparently tell people, hey,I'm stopping by to see you for
five minutes because I reallycare about you. This is not
optimal. Can I actually saythose words out loud?
Timothy Bish (23:52):
Well, I mean and I wanna highlight for people
listening that, you know, Gordonis a man who is in the work. I
consider myself a man who's inthe work. We practice and we
communicate and we, you know,whatever. And it still took this
long. Mhmm.
So, you know, this is not aboutdoing these things perfectly.
It's about, you know, a constantsort of evolution. So I just
(24:12):
learned a thing, and I can onlynow start working with that
thing. I am gonna go makeanother story about my ex
husband. Mhmm.
When we were in couplescounseling, he had this
complaint that I would that Iwould reflect back words that he
said, and he felt like I wassort of pigeonholing him into
into things. Right? And I'mlike, well, that's what you said
to me. And he was he said, youknow, he said, oh, well, you
(24:36):
know, because I have anxiety, Iwill rehearse things in my head.
So usually when I say something,I feel pretty clear about it.
And it turned out that he ismore whiteboarding and kind of
working through it in in realtime in the moment. And so I
remember having this moment inin couples counseling where I'm
(24:56):
like, I didn't know that. So yousaid things, and I just believed
you. And I'm like, now I do knowit. So now I can start to keep
it that in mind.
I said, but I can only startdoing that right now. I'm I just
learned that thing. So I can'tgo back and undo all the times I
reflected back and not knowingit. I just learned it now. So I
(25:19):
think part of the practice iseven when there are hurt
feelings or disappointments, youdidn't show up in the way I
wanted you to.
Like, those feelings andexperiences are real, but you
can only act on a realizationonce you've had it. And so then
can we be patient? So the thingwith that's why I started
laughing with Gordon where I'mlike, initially, I was
(25:40):
frustrated. Of course, I fuckinglove you. Like, what?
You know? And then you have therealization, and you're like,
oh, okay. Well, now with this, Ican be totally different, or I
can try to be I can start theprocess of of practicing in a
different way. Saying all thatjust to highlight this work is
an ongoing, blooming, evolving.And even when you have people
(26:05):
both people in a relationshipdoing this work, it can still be
bumpy.
There can still beuncertainties, and there can be
periods of time where you arenot meeting each other. And
sometimes periods of time whereyou're not meeting each other,
and you don't even realizeyou're not fully meeting the
other person. And so you have tobe willing to consider a new
possibility in light of newevidence. Right? Oh, I just
(26:28):
realized a thing.
I just realized a way that I canmeet Gordon. Can I start doing
that now because I care abouthim? But the thing is I couldn't
do it any sooner than merealizing it.
Eric Bomyea (26:39):
I think this goes back to one of the first things
you said. Care also, you have totrust that person. You have to
trust that person can go alongwith you and trust that we can
weather the storm, that we canfigure this out, that we can
consciously choose over and overagain to continue to reveal, to
(27:02):
be vulnerable with somebody, tocontinue to reveal, I care about
this. Right. Or this is the wayin which I receive care or
whatever it might be, whateverthe conversation is, can we be
vulnerable with people to let usin?
And then can we trust that thatperson, like, even when they get
it, quote unquote, wrong,
Timothy Bish (27:21):
still cares. Well, this example with Gordon is so
perfect because he diddemonstrate care for me by
sending me these text messagesthat I found frustrating. He was
telling me what he what he wasfeeling and what he wanted. He
was telling them to me in a waythat, like, I didn't love, but
also I didn't realize untillater. And like, oh, because he
(27:44):
he can't feel the love I have.
So just exactly what you said.And even when it's working,
you're like, oh, this persontried to communicate with me.
They did communicate with me. Itstill might take a minute to
kind of land and say, wait. Whatwhat is actually happening here?
Why am I annoyed? What's goingon? What do they need? What are
(28:09):
they really saying? You know?
Eric Bomyea (28:11):
Or that we can reveal the better chances we
have of meeting each other.That's a long journey. That's a
long journey to be able to fullyreveal exactly what it is that
we're trying to communicate orwhat it is that we're wanting or
needing.
Timothy Bish (28:25):
I mean, sometimes we don't even know. It takes
time to figure out the nuance.
Eric Bomyea (28:30):
Because even in that example, I think, like, how
specific was he in that messageabout, like, this is what
happened. This is what I wouldprefer. Right? I don't recall,
but I don't think from what Ihear from you saying it wasn't
like black and white. It wasn'ta black and white like, I need
this.
It was I'm frustrated because.
Timothy Bish (28:50):
I mean, he was in the same process I was in.
Right? So he was telling me howhe was feeling. Right. And some
of like, part of why I gotannoyed was like at one point,
he he said, you seem defensive.
And, like and I'm like, oh,that's but now that in
reflection, I'm like, that'sprobably right. That probably
that is how he felt. Right? Ittook longer to recognize, oh,
(29:13):
we're we're just gonna miss eachother, and I need I just need to
remind you how much I love you.That that took that took time.
Yeah. The we're gonna movethrough this life, and it's
going to be rare that we get theperfect communication that we
need. That's gonna be rare. Ithink just generally rare. It's
(29:33):
definitely not gonna happenevery time even if the person is
attempting to do it.
And so we have to have someleeway for ourselves and for
others. Oh, it took me this longto have this realization. Okay.
Well, that's how long it took,and now now I have it. Now what
do I do with it?
Eric Bomyea (29:49):
Work on it together. You can work on work
on it individually and togetherto come together and really,
like, love bomb each each other.
Timothy Bish (29:58):
Yeah. Another reason why it felt so silly
later was I'm like, I absolutelylove you. I have a ton of love
in my heart for lots of people,and I'm never sad when I tell
them. And I am really busy, andI know that I have a I can at
times have a very, like, matterof fact manner of engagement.
Mhmm.
You know? I'm well, you know,I'm a yoga teacher. I'm a
fitness instructor. Like,oftentimes, I'm controlling a
(30:20):
room. That's part you know?
Left foot goes here. Step yourleft foot forward. Yeah. Like,
so I I recognize it about me,and and so then I had to remind
myself of that too. Oh, okay.
Well, that feels commonplace,day to day business for me.
Maybe it feels edgy, defensive,uncomfortable, lacking a warmth
(30:45):
that a person who's desperatefor some warmth would really
like. Again, this, like, makesme wanna laugh because, you
know, as soon as therealization, I'm like, I can
just tell you how much I loveyou. I can do that I can do that
every day. Mhmm.
We did not plan on having thisconversation, but I would like
this episode to be theunofficial love letter from me
(31:06):
to Gordon or from us to Gordon,but me in particular. I, Gord,
they love you. I'm so gladyou're in my life. Sorry it took
me this long to to recognize away in which I can meet you. But
I recognize it now, so I'm gonnakeep working with it.
Eric Bomyea (31:22):
And hopefully, you'll stick with me through it.
This reminds me of probably myfavorite Garth Brooks song.
Timothy Bish (31:29):
Okay. Garth Brooks, here we go.
Eric Bomyea (31:32):
Yeah. If Tomorrow Never Comes.
Timothy Bish (31:36):
Wait. Are you gonna try to make us cry?
Eric Bomyea (31:38):
No. Because this is maybe. Mean, like, it's
connected to that, and it issomething that I try to remind
myself and live by because I'velost loved ones in my life who
never knew how much I love them.Now I live with the regret that
my true feelings for them neverwere revealed. So I made a
(31:58):
promise to myself to say eachday how much she means to me and
avoid that circumstance wherethere's no second chance to tell
her how I feel.
As if tomorrow never comes, willshe know how much I loved her?
And so it's an opportunity andmy hope, prayer, wish for
(32:18):
everyone here is that you tellpeople how much you care about
them. Because the truth is wedon't always feel it. We do not
always feel when other peoplecare about us. And so it does go
a long way to boldly communicateit to them.
And then it doesn't have to be Ilove you.
Timothy Bish (32:40):
But it could I say I appreciate you.
Eric Bomyea (32:41):
Yeah.
Timothy Bish (32:42):
And I say it a lot. It's part of my practice.
Eric Bomyea (32:43):
And I think that goes a long way
Timothy Bish (32:44):
for people. Well, some people think it's crazy.
Whatever. Right.
Eric Bomyea (32:48):
But, like, that's that's the way that you show
care.
Timothy Bish (32:51):
Well, it's also a practice. Yeah. Because I it's
the same idea, which is sort offunny now with the the story
story with Gordon, which isthat's a thing I've been
practicing. And this is abeautiful reminder of like, oh,
well, I've been spiralingthrough this practice as we do
with most of them. And it tookme into this point to get, like,
another layer, another view.
(33:11):
That is how I have experienced alot of my practice and a lot of
how my teachers have talkedabout it. We come back to the
same thing. We're doing, youknow, Asana. We're doing breath.
We're doing meditation.
We're doing you know? Andthrough repetition, things get
revealed. Think about things youunderstand now through years of
(33:32):
practice that you it would havebeen hard for you to even wrap
your head around on day one.That's part of it. It's actually
a beautiful part
Eric Bomyea (33:40):
of it. It's a beautiful opportunity. Revisit
it, see what's changed, see whatmight need to be adjusted, to
make sure that it's still doingthe intended purpose, right?
That practice has an intendedpurpose. If telling people, I
appreciate you, the intendedpurpose is to show people I care
about you and I want to expressthat verbally so that it's very
(34:03):
clear, sometimes that's notlanding.
And it's an opportunity to like,oh, well, here's a different
perspective of it. Maybe Iswitched it up, maybe I changed
it, whatever it might be. Ormaybe I say it more frequently,
whatever it is. You'reabsolutely right. It is a
beautiful part of practicingsomething, seeing it from a
different side, seeing it from adifferent angle, adjusting as
(34:24):
necessary.
I think about low lunge. I hadbeen doing yoga for almost
fifteen years before I realizedI could move my hips in
different directions to lower myhips. I pull my right hip back.
I press my left hip forward, andthen my my hips drop down. What?
Timothy Bish (34:39):
Wait. When did you discover that?
Eric Bomyea (34:41):
It was wild just recently. I think it was
probably in one of your classes.Yeah. It was within the last two
years. Yeah.
And I've been doing yoga forover a decade at that point. And
I was like, woah. But that'sback to something over and over
and over again and discoveringnuances.
Timothy Bish (34:58):
Yeah. There's this teaching in ballet where they
would talk about, you know,whenever you do, like, a
developpe, essentially liftingyour leg up, you know, which
obviously lots of ballet dancersdo and, you know, ballerinas in
particular. And they used tosay, you know, lift your leg not
from the top of your leg, butfrom the bottom of your leg. And
(35:19):
anatomically, that doesn'treally make any sense. You're
like, the way that the muscleswork, you know, this is what's
responsible for hip flexion andthis is what's responsible for
knee flexion.
You know? But I remember, youknow, years into my training
getting a sort of a sensation.And I'm like, oh, I think that's
what they mean, that sensationthat changed my intentionality
(35:44):
around doing this thing. But itwas only from, like, hearing it
over and over again and thinkingabout it and trying and trying
and trying until one day you'relike, oh, I got I got a new
perspective on that. Now, Inever had great developes.
So I had my own strengths.
Eric Bomyea (36:02):
What if a teacher thought that by you not hitting
that develop a was a way of notappreciating them? Right?
Timothy Bish (36:09):
Like It's all about the effort. I think I
think dance teachers, even thestrictest sort of like sharpest
of them, recognize the effort.It's a little bit like, oh, I
want you to do I want you to dosix pirouettes. Okay. Cool.
If I can't do that right now,doesn't mean I'm not trying or
(36:30):
that I don't care about what youjust said. Are you trying goes a
long way. Yeah. I don't thinkany of my dance teachers did
that. Mhmm.
Thank god because these take along time. So if you ask me for
six birouettes, I'll just tellyou how much I love you.
Eric Bomyea (36:47):
Well, I can't do that, but I can do it, and I
care about you.
Timothy Bish (36:50):
I care about your teachings. That's right. You
matter to me. And I can keeptrying if you want.
Eric Bomyea (36:56):
With that, I feel inclined to say, I care about
you. I care about you, Chad. Iknow that you're gonna be
watching this, editing it forus. So just getting it out there
into the universe. I care aboutyou.
Timothy Bish (37:08):
Thank you. I think that we need to bring more
communication around our care.Because my life is an example.
There are so many people that Ihave care for, levels of care
for. And I'm gonna bring upanother example, so we're we're
dropping all the names.
(37:29):
There's an unbelievable womannamed Linda at the coffee pot.
Linda? It's the coffee shop.What's the name of that plaza?
Portuguese Square.
Yes. In Provincetown. And Ihave, for the last two years,
been going there to get my icedcoffee because it is the biggest
iced coffee in P town. So it'sreally great deal. And I have
(37:51):
now created a relationship with,like, the the woman who's there
mainly.
We talk every day now. We have anice interaction. She sees me.
She's sometimes making my coffeebefore I've even walked through
the door. Right?
Sweet. We it's just really,really great. And so do I care
about Linda the way I care aboutmy mom or the way that I care
(38:14):
about my life purpose? No.Probably not.
But do I care about Linda in away that matters and that I
think is important to me and Ithink is important to her? Yes.
Yes. And so and I actually knowone like, the moment our
relationship, Linda and I, themoment our relationship deepened
was when I I said to her, I'mlike, these summer this was last
(38:35):
summer. I'm like, these summersare really intense for me.
And seeing your face every dayhas been like a bull a bolster
or a buttress for me. I reallyappreciate how nice you are to
me in the morning when I'm gonnastart a really demanding and
sometimes unbelievably lonelyday. We were already familiar
(38:56):
with each other, but but I thinkthat my declaration of, like,
you matter to me and here's anexample of why, like, deepened
it. I'm sweetie now. Like, she'sjust know what I mean?
It's like we have a whole thing.We have a whole thing. Anyway,
Linda, if you're listening Mhmm.I mean I don't know if you're
listening, but if you arelistening, I care about you, and
thank you for all the thingsyou've done for me.
Eric Bomyea (39:18):
Well, I'm feeling very complete.
Timothy Bish (39:20):
Oh, I'm I'm feeling complete too.
Eric Bomyea (39:22):
Will you take a sow, please?
Timothy Bish (39:23):
Yes. Let's close our eyes and just draw our
awareness inward for a secondbecause we care about our bodies
and our intuition. And it iswith deep appreciation and
gratitude for any insights,understandings, or awarenesses
that may have been gainedthrough this conversation in the
(39:45):
shared sacred space that we nowrelease the archangels and the
spirits that we called in. Andwith these words, container is
open but not broken. Uh-huh.
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