August 15, 2024 • 28 mins
Can remanufacturing reshape the future of office furniture? Join us on this episode of the Circular Future as we uncover the innovative world of sustainable office furniture with Doug Pilgrim, the Sustainability Advocate for Davies Office. With a fascinating backstory dating back over 70 years, Davies Office has evolved from a humble wood furniture refinisher to the largest furniture remanufacturer in the United States. Doug distinguishes between remanufacturing and refurbishing, and explains how modern trends like lower-height panels for collaboration and natural light have spurred significant changes. Discover how remanufacturing not only diverts waste from landfills but also offers substantial cost savings, amid a growing customer demand for sustainable solutions.
Takeaways
- Remanufacturing is the process of bringing old furniture to like-new condition, while refurbishing involves making minor repairs and improvements.
- Office furniture has a significant environmental footprint, with millions of tons ending up in landfills each year.
- More manufacturers need to embrace remanufacturing and collaborate with remanufacturers to find solutions for old furniture.
- To get senior leaders on board with remanufacturing, emphasize the cost savings, sustainability benefits, and positive impact on the company's environmental goals.
- Individuals can contribute to the circular economy by prioritizing reuse and prolonging the life of products.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Remanufacturing is an important element of the
circular economy, but whatactually is remanufacturing and
how can it work in practice?
Welcome to the Circular Future,your access to thought leaders
and innovations to help you be abusiness sustainability
champion, even if it's not yourcore job.
I'm your host.
Stephanie McLarty, Head ofSustainability at Quantum
(00:26):
Lifecycle Partners.
Remanufacturing is a topic thatI'm personally really curious
about.
It comes up from time to timehere at Quantum as we reuse,
remarket, refurbish, recycleelectronics basically most
re-words, but notremanufacturing.
One area where remanufacturingis prevalent is in the office
(00:48):
furniture space.
So with me today is DougPilgrim, Sustainability Advocate
for Davies Office, the largestfurniture remanufacturer in the
United States.
Doug has over 30 years in theoffice furniture industry and is
both a lead and well-accreditedprofessional.
Welcome to the podcast, DougSure, it's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
We are happy that you're here and diving into this
very interesting topic.
First of all, though, let'sstart as we always do, Doug.
What would be three things thatthe world should know about
Davey's office?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Well, you asked me that and these questions
beforehand and I have to say youknow it takes me all over the
place because there are so manythings that we do that we are
unique.
But I guess the first thing isis that we just didn't jump into
the space of the circulareconomy and remanufacturing.
This is something that Davieshas evolved into.
(01:44):
They've been around for over 70years and when the company
started they were a woodfurniture refinisher.
Then, with the tank desks, theaircraft carrier desks, they
basically had to learn how toelectrostatic paint the vertical
files and those desks when theywere being reused again or
(02:04):
being refurbished on site.
Then, with the cube farm andwith the systems furniture
becoming a major player the usedfurniture then they had to
learn how to paint the framesand put new textiles onto the
panels.
But, you know, since 2010, wereally saw the shift.
It's a fashion shift, obviouslytoward lower-height panels,
(02:28):
smaller footprints of stations,and so they basically had to
learn how to take those oldstations and remanufacture those
to new dimensions.
So it was the fashion of theindustry that pushed them into
becoming a furnitureremanufacturer.
So I guess basically what I'msaying on that point is that we
just didn't jump into this.
(02:49):
We've evolved into this space.
Another thing to know aboutDavies is that we're a
woman-owned business.
Evelyn Davies owns 51% of ourcompany and we're very proud of
that, but we're also for 49%.
We're an employee-owned company, we're an ESOP, so 150 of us we
all have a heart of skin in thegame to make sure that our
(03:13):
products are made to ourstandards and that our clients
are happy with what we're doing.
And then the next thing is that, as opposed to when you work
with a major OEM, you'd belooking at opening up their
binder and selecting from theirmenu and we are more or less an
a la carte.
We see a specification.
We can manufacture thefurniture.
(03:34):
So I guess, right off the top.
Those are the three things thatprobably people don't know
about Davies.
That helps them.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, it's fascinating and I like that a la
carte analogy.
So, Doug, let's get into this.
What actually isremanufacturing?
And I think that the oneconcept that it often can get
confused with is, say,refurbishing.
So what's the difference?
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Well, I think that goes back to the.
You know the fashion of theindustry.
When we went from cube farms,from systems furniture.
Fashion of the industry.
When we went from, uh, cubefarms, from systems furniture,
we were driven into thesesmaller stations, lower height
stations.
You know, one of it was that uh,you know the quote and this is
not me now, so there's no waybut the trend was saying that
millennials didn't want to beable to collaborate more and
(04:21):
that that they needed the lowerheight.
So there was more collaboration, more communication within the
office space and at the sametime, we had a major influence
on the industry coming from LEED, where we wanted the lower
height panels for more qualityviews, for more natural sunlight
coming into the space, cut downon the use of lighting, and so
(04:42):
those two trends drove thedimensions of the stations to be
lower heights and we justbasically had to evolve into
that.
We had to come up to an answerto that on how do we take our
old stations and bring themaround, one of the things that
you know up until fairlyrecently I mean over the course
of the company you know a lot ofthe trend on why people would
(05:03):
work with Davies office andremanufacturing and refurbishing
was pricing.
What they wanted to see was Ican't afford this new stuff, but
I need to do something from aneconomical standpoint, so they
came to us strictly from apricing standpoint.
But what we have seen, maybevery strongly in the last six
years, is a lot of this is beingdriven from a sustainability
(05:26):
standpoint.
So what we offer the clients is.
We'll come in and we'll takethose old stations in the old Q
farms and we give a value forthat product that can then be
applied towards theremanufactured portion of a
project to lower its cost down.
But what we're also doing isit's landfill diversion to lower
its cost down.
But what we're also doing isit's landfill diversion Because
(05:47):
right now we're looking at thelast number the EPA gave us was
back in 2018.
We're looking at 9.7 milliontons worth of office furniture
going to the landfill every year.
So that's a staggering numberfrom an environmental standpoint
, but that's also a staggeringnumber from a financial
standpoint, when perfectly goodfurniture just doesn't meet the
aesthetic or the trend of themoment.
(06:09):
So we're able to give a valuefor that.
Then we're looking at landfilldiversion and that value can
drive down the cost of a restackor furniture going forward.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, there's clearly a lot of benefits to
remanufacturing and this wholeapproach of taking previous
furniture and reimagining andrethinking and actually
implementing that.
I'm curious around can any typeof office furniture be
remanufactured?
Like, if I think at Quantum andI think about all the
(06:40):
electronics that we bring in anddeciding whether they go
through our ITAD or IT AssetDisposition Channel for
remarketing and essentiallyreuse or our recycling channel?
Is really around the marketpotential, Like is there someone
out there that can use this andwill buy this or get it through
a donation?
Is it the same in this space ordo you basically remanufacture
(07:05):
any office furniture?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
For us there has to be a market on the other side.
So you know we work with all themajor OEMs Steelcase, herman
Miller, miller, noll Hayworth,ontario Technion that makes a
great product to beremanufactured.
So we work with all thosemajors only because number one
is they overbuilt their productto begin with, so it allows us
(07:29):
to remanufacture it.
And we like to say, you know,we love the oems because they
really the a grades, becausethey really overbuilt their
product and I don't think the agrades have that kind of
affection towards us because wecan remanufacture the product to
like new standards that can beused again.
But there are some productsthat were value engineered to
meet a price point right out ofthe gate and those really don't
(07:51):
allow themselves to beremanufactured and at the same
time, from a marketingstandpoint, there's not a market
for that product on the otherside.
So you know we have to be ableto sell the product, you know,
as it goes out.
So you know we have one of ourprograms is a sustainable
product exchange to thesustainable banking program.
So this means that with theexchange we take the product in
(08:11):
and we take that value and weapply it towards the
remanufactured portion of theproject in that program.
We're not remanufacturing theclient's furniture for them.
We're giving, we're takingtheir value and applying it
towards remanufactured furniture.
So what we're doing here isthat they're giving us raw
materials but we already haveraw materials so that there's no
downtime for our customers ingetting the product that they
(08:32):
need.
And then their product thengoes to our storage and it can
be used for future projects withother clients later on.
So what that does from abusiness model, it makes us very
sticky with our customers Nowbecause they're sending us what
they would normally haveregarded as waste.
We're giving them a positivevalue for that and then we're
coming back in.
(08:53):
So we've become a virtualwarehouse almost kind of a
magical virtual warehouse wherethey send us their old product
that's not fitting the visionand they're getting back what
they need that does fit.
That's kind of neat from thatstandpoint.
Also, what we have is asustainable banking program.
So what that means if theyhappen to be emptying out their
warehouse it's a product thatthey're not using anymore, or
(09:16):
there's a branch office thatthey're not working with anymore
we can take that product in andthat positive value can be on
our books and then that valuecan be applied to a future
project anywhere in the country.
So now we basically havecreated these business models
that really does motivate thecustomer to get involved with a
circular economy with theirfurniture.
It gives them motivation not tosend it to landfill.
(09:38):
And then on top of that, youknow we've had life cycle
assessments done on what we'redoing.
That shows the energy savings,co2 avoidance, the landfill
avoidance on our projects, andthose are hard metrics and we're
able to give that to ourcustomers on an ongoing basis.
That goes right to theirsustainability story.
So they're saving money,they're getting out of the
(09:59):
warehouse business and thenthey're getting these
third-party verified metricsthat can be used to put their
sustainability report.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, that's a fascinating little case study
for your customers to show whatthey're doing for sustainability
.
Doug, can you speak to theenvironmental footprint of
office furniture?
This is clearly a big driver interms of what you do is you're
keeping product out of landfill.
What is that actual impact ofoffice furniture environmentally
(10:27):
?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Well, I mean, as I said before, you know we're
looking at and the EPA numbergoes back to 2018, because
unfortunately that's the youknow down here in the States
that's the last time we had thatnumber out there, but we know
we're looking at 9.7 milliontons worth of furniture going to
the landfill.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Every year.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
In the year 2018.
Oh, okay, yeah, and that'salmost like every year.
But now we're on the backsideof the pandemic here.
So, you know, people comingback to work, we've got CFOs who
are sitting back saying youknow, we don't need as much real
estate as we used to.
There's, I guess, across thecountry you're looking at, you
know, 30 to 20% vacancy ratesright now.
Yeah, that means 30 to 20% ofthe office furniture that's on
(11:06):
that space is.
You know, they have to come upwith a solution for it, you know
.
So I mean, from that standpoint, it's a, you know it's a
nightmare.
But if we just do a comparisonto what we're doing to a new
manufacturer, if you comparelike an LCA we did one back in
2016.
We did one back in 2016.
(11:31):
We have one that's being doneright now to make it more
current.
But just based on that, if wejust look at the global warming
impact, at the materials andprocess and the energy, we sit
on a 17%, 19% and 7% footprintrespectively and that's not a
reduction.
I mean, that's the footprint.
And right now.
I know it's very vogue to talkabout just the CO2 avoidance and
global warming avoidance, butwhen you're looking at a life
cycle and you go across theboard.
(11:52):
Now you're starting to look atozone depletion and you're
starting to look at soilpollution and water pollution.
If you take a look at thatbroad scope of things, we sit on
less than a 20% footprintcompared to an original OEM in
that analysis.
So you know that's a staggeringnumber.
Now, the caveat here is you'realways going to have that
(12:13):
initial hit in the product tobegin with, but there's no
reason why office furniturecan't be remanufactured once,
and sometimes twice, toperpetuate its life, to try to
keep it out of the landfill asmuch as possible and to cut down
on the energy and pollution.
That goes along with themanufacturing process and
inclusion, that goes along withthe manufacturing process.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I'm curious if you're bringing the product back up to
a like-new standard.
Are there standards in thespace to differentiate between
companies like yours and justanybody doing?
Speaker 1 (12:40):
it.
Well, there's a couple ofthings that we're doing, that we
have third-party analysis onwhat we're up to.
One is that lifecycleassessment that kind of gives an
overview.
One is that lifecycleassessment that kind of gives an
overview.
But we also work with theBusiness and Institutional
Furniture ManufacturersAssociation and they have a
BIFMA-level standard.
(13:02):
This is the sustainabilitystandard for new furniture and
that's an on-site audit of whatyou're doing every three years
and remotely every year.
So we are BIFMO level twocertified for nine different
product lines from Steelcase andfor Hayward, and so you know
that for our customers, you knowthat's a very, very strong
(13:25):
assurance that you know we'rebeing manufactured and be
recognized at the same level asa new furniture manufacturer.
But there's also an ANSIstandard out there and with that
ANSI standard forremanufacturing you know that is
that you have to manufacture,remanufacture your product to
like new condition and so we canbring it to like new.
(13:46):
We can actually go beyond that.
We call it sometimes that weremanufacture better than new,
and what we mean by that andthat goes back to the a la carte
aspect is that we can do thingswith the furniture that
originally wasn't supposed to do.
There was a project in Manhattanthat was going on with Colgate,
and the architect had a visionof space that they wanted to do
(14:10):
and had nothing to do withremanufacturing, but they had a
vision of what that they wantedto do and had nothing to do with
remanufacturing, but they had avision of what they wanted to
do with the space.
And they had gone to a major OEMI'll let them remain nameless
and had gone to them and saidyou know, this is obviously what
we need to do with ourfurniture.
And the OEM said you know, wecan't do that.
We don't do that with furniture, right, because this is the way
(14:35):
we do things.
And so we came to them and Isaid no, we can do that.
So we butted, we butted,veneering, uh, together, we put
glass on the top that met at 90degrees.
Uh, we, we really went, wentabove and beyond everything on
the project and we met thevision of space that the
architect had and at the sametime, it was a LEED, certified
LEED goal.
It was right on Park Ave, andso we were able to do things
(14:56):
better than the original OEMcould with their own furniture.
So we made the furniture betterthan new.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
That's amazing.
The 80s and 90s, with the oldway that offices were, with the
high cubicle walls, and reallythinking about now, in modern
offices, that everything's somuch more collaborative, as you
say, much lower, if there's evenwalls at all, and lots of glass
and natural light.
It makes a ton of sense thatyou're really fulfilling on that
(15:29):
vision and taking this existingproduct that's already been
manufacturing the resources havealready gone into the
commodities and themanufacturing of the product and
you're just taking it to thisnew application.
Which makes me think aboutsomething that we think about at
Quantum.
We have electronics that wemarket that are refurbished
(15:52):
because they can be used again.
There's still lots of life leftin them.
But sometimes we really have toencourage people and companies
to overcome the mindset blockthat because something is not
brand new, it is perhapsinferior, which we know is not
the case.
When we offer warranties andprovide a lot of assurance that
(16:13):
the product that you're gettingis a great product and will last
, is it the same for you?
And how do you get people toreally think differently around
this whole concept ofremanufacturing and that it is
something to choose?
You don't have to choose new,especially not all the time.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
It's an interesting one.
So I've been in the industryobviously for quite a long time.
I've been with Davies for 12years and, as we have this
conversation right now, I hopeyou're beginning to understand
the difference betweenrefurbishing and remanufacturing
.
But although we've had thisconversation, if you go off and
have this conversation withsomebody else, you'll and
remanufacturing.
But although we've had thisconversation, if you go off and
have this conversation withsomebody else, you'll say
(16:54):
remanufacturing, but the personon the other side is hearing
refurbishing and then when theyhave that conversation with
somebody else, they're sayingrefurbishing and the next person
is hearing use.
So we always have to beconstantly educating on what
we're about and what we do.
That differentiates itself fromrefurbishing and use.
First of all, if a product canbe refurbished, I'm all for it.
(17:17):
I mean, that's going to be agreat price point, right, and
it's not going to land.
If a product can be reusedagain, I'm all for that.
Also, there's a large bank downin Dallas that we worked with
and they wanted to bank all thestuff and they were going to
come in there with New HermanMiller and it went over to the
other side of town and they hadthis beautiful steel case
(17:38):
answered there, and thishappened right before the
pandemic and it was beautifulfurniture, as I termed it.
It was museum quality.
I went back into the customersand I said you know you're out
of your mind to get rid of thisfurniture if you're going to be
doing this here.
I said you know you're out ofyour mind to get rid of this
furniture.
If you're going to be doingthis here, let's see about
(18:00):
reusing the furniture that youhave and add to it to get that
once again, that architect'svision of space they have for it
.
So in that circumstance we'reable to show the customer how to
reuse that product in a newapplication, which they weren't
contemplating on doing at all.
So basically, we avoided themanufacturing of new furniture.
So that's all that.
And then we were able to reusethe product again, which is
probably one of the best thingsyou can do and then salt into
that remanufactured product.
(18:21):
So that was a win-win for thecustomer.
They saved an awful lot ofmoney on a couple of projects in
Dallas and Houston, but at thesame time they avoided the
landfill.
They avoided all thoseenvironmental problems that go
along with that, that's neat.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Okay, doug, I want to get into our how-to section,
and you've mentioned aroundmanufacturers, and there are
certain manufacturers that insome cases build such great
quality product that theyoverbuild.
But how to get moremanufacturers on board with
embracing remanufacturing?
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Well, all the major manufacturers are aware of it.
They all had their toe in thewater at one time.
So Steelcase had a venturecalled Revest which was
refurbishing back then.
They tried it and they got outof it.
Now, only they know for surewhy they got out of it.
They tried it and they got outof it.
Now, only they know for surewhy they got out of it.
I'm of the opinion that theydidn't want to compete against
(19:16):
their own furniture.
I thought that maybe they werestealing off one plate for going
against the new furniture,which is a shame because it
could have been a great pricepoint arrangement.
And I know that Miller had beeninvolved with something like
this, and also Steelcase excuseme, all Steel.
But I think they're revisitingthis now.
A lot of the customers on thebackside of the pandemic are
(19:38):
going back to the OEMs andsaying you know, you told us all
about the great sustainabilityaspects of this furniture prior
to the pandemic.
Now that we're doing thisrestack, this hybrid office, why
can't you help us out with ourold furniture?
So I think the motivation forthe OEMs is going to be the
(19:59):
pushback from their customers.
That being said, it's going tobe difficult for them.
Because, if you remember, thetraditional model in office
furniture is that you have amanufacturer that goes to their
regional sales of people, thatthen goes to localized
dealerships, so it's a greatdownstream distribution network.
But what happens when you tryto reverse that?
(20:20):
You know what's the motivationfor the dealer salesperson, you
know who may be on a commissionbasis to come in and get rid of
that furniture and not sell thecustomer new.
So that's an issue.
You know.
One of our strengths is we havea direct relationship with our
customers.
We basically our projectmanagers, come in, we oversee
the decommissioning of theirfurniture, we oversee the
(20:41):
shipping of that product back tous.
Our designers design the space,working with the end user or
with interior designers andarchitects on the project.
Then we are shipping and we'redelivering and we're installing.
So I know this is the farmtable approach to office
furniture.
We are actively a partner withour customers.
You get an awful lot ofintermediates in the business
(21:03):
model with the new OEMs betweenyou and the people who are
actually doing the furniture.
So it's going to be difficultfor them to reverse it.
Now what they should be doing,and what I'm hoping they're
doing, is they start to createpartnerships and realize that
we're all in this together, thatwe all have to come up with
solutions together.
It's a big tent and thatremanufacturers and refurbishers
can work with them to come upwith solutions for the old
(21:28):
furniture and get it back intoplay.
Now there's organizations likeOrange Box in the UK.
They are working withindependent manufacturers,
refurbishers for their seatingline and I've talked to some of
the remanufacturers in the UK.
It's a good program.
When an old chair comes in,orange Box will supply them with
(21:50):
parts and pieces that arenecessary to refurbish and bring
the chair back up to newstandards.
And then there's also Arendt, aDutch company in the EU.
Now they are embracing officespace, office furniture
furniture as a service.
So they have programs where thefurniture goes in, the clients
can use it over the course oftheir lease and at the end of
(22:12):
that, built into this program isthat the furniture can come out
.
So I think those two programsand programs like it can work
here in the States.
It's just going to take somework to get it up and running.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, some thought leadership, some collaboration.
I love that point about we allhave to work together towards
the solution we're trying to dothat too.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
We don't collaboration I love that point
about we all have to worktogether towards the solution.
We're trying to do that too.
We don't necessarily feel thatwe have all the answers for our
customers.
We want to be a solutionsprovider and sometimes the
solution is not working withDavis.
So we are.
And I know up in Ontario youhave a great organization up
there with Green Standard, and Ithink you've heard us speak
with Green Standard in the past.
You know, in another world wewould almost think of ourselves
(22:55):
as competitors in this space,but you know that Green Standard
can come up with a greatalternative for the reuse of
furniture at the end of its life, of the customer, something
that we can't provide, such as,you know, enabling a donation
program, and that's notsomething we do but they do.
And so what we have recognizedis that we need to be
collaborating with them at thisarea to come up with the
(23:17):
ultimate solution for a circulareconomic growth.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Now, Doug, I wanted to ask you one more how-to
question, and you speak aboutmotivations, and I love that.
What are the motivations ofmanufacturers, for example, that
you can tap into for this?
Our listeners of this podcast alot of them are business
managers and leaders who arepart of the decision making
(23:41):
process for their companies, butthey're not necessarily the
sole decision maker andtherefore they have to get the
buy in from their senior leaderson various aspects.
What would you say?
How to get your senior leaderson board with remanufacturing,
how to tap into their motivation?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Well, I don't know.
As you're probably aware,sustainability within a major
corporation has to be a top-downprogram.
You know, if you'remid-management and you're trying
to and your eyes are open andyou realize what a solution this
is in all environmental thingsSometimes it's a hard push
(24:23):
trying to get to work above tothe powers above you and trying
to get them motivated into theprogram.
So when we facility managerslove what we do, so when we
facility managers love what wedo, you know for us sometimes in
the past what it was, it wasyou know we sold our products
from.
You know, try to get initiatedfrom price point.
(24:44):
Now that's easy to get a CFOand a CEO of a company on board.
When you show that you knowyou're going to get the company
out of the warehouse businessand we're going to save them
some money on the project.
But with ESG this is a bigdriver right now and a lot of
what we're doing really appealsto companies that are embracing
(25:04):
ESG.
So from that standpoint youbasically come up with we're
pursuing ESG as a company.
This is a great part of it andI've seen this evolution.
I worked on a project down inNew Brunswick and I put in 50
stations of steel-based answerand I was all excited part of it
, and I've seen this evolution.
I worked on a project down inNew Brunswick and they put in 50
stations of steel-based answerand I was all excited.
I was with the facility managerand I'm jumping up and down.
(25:25):
I said, oh, I can't wait tillthese employees know that this
is remanufactured furniture.
And she said you do not tell myemployees anybody that this is
remanufactured furniture.
We don't want them to thinkthat they're, you know,
second-class citizens receiving,you know, something that's
that's used.
I mean this these stations werebeautiful.
You could never tell that theywere remanufactured, so you know
(25:46):
.
So I was a little sad from thatstandpoint, uh.
But uh, on the other side ofthat, not more than two weeks
later, I was at con ed inmanhattan and we worked on a
project with them and they wereso happy about it.
They want to put a mural on thewall with all their
sustainability savings and whatthey were doing and in that
particular project, what theywant, they want the employees to
(26:09):
see all the great things theywere doing and to celebrate that
, because it was employeeretention and it was employee
traction to know that, you know,your company is in pursuit of
sustainability.
So, yeah, it's like and it'sand that's.
That was kind of for me, that'swhen I started to really see the
ship.
And then there was a major,major beverage company that we
(26:32):
did a presentation for at our HQin Albany and you know they
wheeled me out in the 11th hourand I was doing my
sustainability conversation andI had some management in the
back of the room pointing at thewatches, saying hurry up, and I
clicked through and I clickedthrough and I showed the
sustainability savings metricsthat we gave one of our clients
(26:53):
on their project and the womanthat was there, said hold that
frame right there.
And she pointed to her wholeteam was there, said hold that
frame right there.
And she pointed to her wholeteam.
She said see that frame.
That's the reason why we'rehere today and I have to say at
that point I felt such avalidation in what we're doing
and what I'm trying to do andget the word out that it was a
great moment for me.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, and you know what I just got goosebumps.
So thank you for that.
Yeah, so celebrate.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
So thank you for that , yeah, so celebrate Turn down
your air conditioner.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
It's not because of that, doug.
We've covered so much, and ifthere was one thing that you
could leave listeners with oneaction to take a piece of advice
, doug, what would that be?
Speaker 1 (27:37):
one action.
To take a piece of advice, doug, what would that be?
Reuse, don't throw it away, nomatter what it is.
Take a second look, whetherit's your office furniture,
whether it's the technology inyour office, whatever.
See if you can prolong the lifeof something or get something
of a quality that's going tohave a long shelf life, and try
(27:59):
to keep it out of the landfilland have a small environment.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Here, here.
I couldn't have said it better.
Thank you, Doug.
This is really insightful and Iappreciate you being here.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I appreciate it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
And remember, if you're looking for a partner in
electronics reuse and recycling,we'd love to chat Head on over
to quantumlifecyclecom andcontact us.
This is a Quantum Lifecyclepodcast and the producer is
Sanjay Trivedi.
Thank you for being a CircularFuture Champion in your company
and beyond.
Logging off.
Remanufacturing is an important element of the
circular economy, but whatactually is remanufacturing and
how can it work in practice?
Welcome to the Circular Future,your access to thought leaders
and innovations to help you be abusiness sustainability
champion, even if it's not yourcore job.
I'm your host.
Stephanie McLarty, Head ofSustainability at Quantum
(00:26):
Lifecycle Partners.
Remanufacturing is a topic thatI'm personally really curious
about.
It comes up from time to timehere at Quantum as we reuse,
remarket, refurbish, recycleelectronics basically most
re-words, but notremanufacturing.
One area where remanufacturingis prevalent is in the office
(00:48):
furniture space.
So with me today is DougPilgrim, Sustainability Advocate
for Davies Office, the largestfurniture remanufacturer in the
United States.
Doug has over 30 years in theoffice furniture industry and is
both a lead and well-accreditedprofessional.
Welcome to the podcast, DougSure, it's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
We are happy that you're here and diving into this
very interesting topic.
First of all, though, let'sstart as we always do, Doug.
What would be three things thatthe world should know about
Davey's office?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Well, you asked me that and these questions
beforehand and I have to say youknow it takes me all over the
place because there are so manythings that we do that we are
unique.
But I guess the first thing isis that we just didn't jump into
the space of the circulareconomy and remanufacturing.
This is something that Davieshas evolved into.
(01:44):
They've been around for over 70years and when the company
started they were a woodfurniture refinisher.
Then, with the tank desks, theaircraft carrier desks, they
basically had to learn how toelectrostatic paint the vertical
files and those desks when theywere being reused again or
(02:04):
being refurbished on site.
Then, with the cube farm andwith the systems furniture
becoming a major player the usedfurniture then they had to
learn how to paint the framesand put new textiles onto the
panels.
But, you know, since 2010, wereally saw the shift.
It's a fashion shift, obviouslytoward lower-height panels,
(02:28):
smaller footprints of stations,and so they basically had to
learn how to take those oldstations and remanufacture those
to new dimensions.
So it was the fashion of theindustry that pushed them into
becoming a furnitureremanufacturer.
So I guess basically what I'msaying on that point is that we
just didn't jump into this.
(02:49):
We've evolved into this space.
Another thing to know aboutDavies is that we're a
woman-owned business.
Evelyn Davies owns 51% of ourcompany and we're very proud of
that, but we're also for 49%.
We're an employee-owned company, we're an ESOP, so 150 of us we
all have a heart of skin in thegame to make sure that our
(03:13):
products are made to ourstandards and that our clients
are happy with what we're doing.
And then the next thing is that, as opposed to when you work
with a major OEM, you'd belooking at opening up their
binder and selecting from theirmenu and we are more or less an
a la carte.
We see a specification.
We can manufacture thefurniture.
(03:34):
So I guess, right off the top.
Those are the three things thatprobably people don't know
about Davies.
That helps them.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, it's fascinating and I like that a la
carte analogy.
So, Doug, let's get into this.
What actually isremanufacturing?
And I think that the oneconcept that it often can get
confused with is, say,refurbishing.
So what's the difference?
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Well, I think that goes back to the.
You know the fashion of theindustry.
When we went from cube farms,from systems furniture.
Fashion of the industry.
When we went from, uh, cubefarms, from systems furniture,
we were driven into thesesmaller stations, lower height
stations.
You know, one of it was that uh,you know the quote and this is
not me now, so there's no waybut the trend was saying that
millennials didn't want to beable to collaborate more and
(04:21):
that that they needed the lowerheight.
So there was more collaboration, more communication within the
office space and at the sametime, we had a major influence
on the industry coming from LEED, where we wanted the lower
height panels for more qualityviews, for more natural sunlight
coming into the space, cut downon the use of lighting, and so
(04:42):
those two trends drove thedimensions of the stations to be
lower heights and we justbasically had to evolve into
that.
We had to come up to an answerto that on how do we take our
old stations and bring themaround, one of the things that
you know up until fairlyrecently I mean over the course
of the company you know a lot ofthe trend on why people would
(05:03):
work with Davies office andremanufacturing and refurbishing
was pricing.
What they wanted to see was Ican't afford this new stuff, but
I need to do something from aneconomical standpoint, so they
came to us strictly from apricing standpoint.
But what we have seen, maybevery strongly in the last six
years, is a lot of this is beingdriven from a sustainability
(05:26):
standpoint.
So what we offer the clients is.
We'll come in and we'll takethose old stations in the old Q
farms and we give a value forthat product that can then be
applied towards theremanufactured portion of a
project to lower its cost down.
But what we're also doing isit's landfill diversion to lower
its cost down.
But what we're also doing isit's landfill diversion Because
(05:47):
right now we're looking at thelast number the EPA gave us was
back in 2018.
We're looking at 9.7 milliontons worth of office furniture
going to the landfill every year.
So that's a staggering numberfrom an environmental standpoint
, but that's also a staggeringnumber from a financial
standpoint, when perfectly goodfurniture just doesn't meet the
aesthetic or the trend of themoment.
(06:09):
So we're able to give a valuefor that.
Then we're looking at landfilldiversion and that value can
drive down the cost of a restackor furniture going forward.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, there's clearly a lot of benefits to
remanufacturing and this wholeapproach of taking previous
furniture and reimagining andrethinking and actually
implementing that.
I'm curious around can any typeof office furniture be
remanufactured?
Like, if I think at Quantum andI think about all the
(06:40):
electronics that we bring in anddeciding whether they go
through our ITAD or IT AssetDisposition Channel for
remarketing and essentiallyreuse or our recycling channel?
Is really around the marketpotential, Like is there someone
out there that can use this andwill buy this or get it through
a donation?
Is it the same in this space ordo you basically remanufacture
(07:05):
any office furniture?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
For us there has to be a market on the other side.
So you know we work with all themajor OEMs Steelcase, herman
Miller, miller, noll Hayworth,ontario Technion that makes a
great product to beremanufactured.
So we work with all thosemajors only because number one
is they overbuilt their productto begin with, so it allows us
(07:29):
to remanufacture it.
And we like to say, you know,we love the oems because they
really the a grades, becausethey really overbuilt their
product and I don't think the agrades have that kind of
affection towards us because wecan remanufacture the product to
like new standards that can beused again.
But there are some productsthat were value engineered to
meet a price point right out ofthe gate and those really don't
(07:51):
allow themselves to beremanufactured and at the same
time, from a marketingstandpoint, there's not a market
for that product on the otherside.
So you know we have to be ableto sell the product, you know,
as it goes out.
So you know we have one of ourprograms is a sustainable
product exchange to thesustainable banking program.
So this means that with theexchange we take the product in
(08:11):
and we take that value and weapply it towards the
remanufactured portion of theproject in that program.
We're not remanufacturing theclient's furniture for them.
We're giving, we're takingtheir value and applying it
towards remanufactured furniture.
So what we're doing here isthat they're giving us raw
materials but we already haveraw materials so that there's no
downtime for our customers ingetting the product that they
(08:32):
need.
And then their product thengoes to our storage and it can
be used for future projects withother clients later on.
So what that does from abusiness model, it makes us very
sticky with our customers Nowbecause they're sending us what
they would normally haveregarded as waste.
We're giving them a positivevalue for that and then we're
coming back in.
(08:53):
So we've become a virtualwarehouse almost kind of a
magical virtual warehouse wherethey send us their old product
that's not fitting the visionand they're getting back what
they need that does fit.
That's kind of neat from thatstandpoint.
Also, what we have is asustainable banking program.
So what that means if theyhappen to be emptying out their
warehouse it's a product thatthey're not using anymore, or
(09:16):
there's a branch office thatthey're not working with anymore
we can take that product in andthat positive value can be on
our books and then that valuecan be applied to a future
project anywhere in the country.
So now we basically havecreated these business models
that really does motivate thecustomer to get involved with a
circular economy with theirfurniture.
It gives them motivation not tosend it to landfill.
(09:38):
And then on top of that, youknow we've had life cycle
assessments done on what we'redoing.
That shows the energy savings,co2 avoidance, the landfill
avoidance on our projects, andthose are hard metrics and we're
able to give that to ourcustomers on an ongoing basis.
That goes right to theirsustainability story.
So they're saving money,they're getting out of the
(09:59):
warehouse business and thenthey're getting these
third-party verified metricsthat can be used to put their
sustainability report.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, that's a fascinating little case study
for your customers to show whatthey're doing for sustainability
.
Doug, can you speak to theenvironmental footprint of
office furniture?
This is clearly a big driver interms of what you do is you're
keeping product out of landfill.
What is that actual impact ofoffice furniture environmentally
(10:27):
?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Well, I mean, as I said before, you know we're
looking at and the EPA numbergoes back to 2018, because
unfortunately that's the youknow down here in the States
that's the last time we had thatnumber out there, but we know
we're looking at 9.7 milliontons worth of furniture going to
the landfill.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Every year.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
In the year 2018.
Oh, okay, yeah, and that'salmost like every year.
But now we're on the backsideof the pandemic here.
So, you know, people comingback to work, we've got CFOs who
are sitting back saying youknow, we don't need as much real
estate as we used to.
There's, I guess, across thecountry you're looking at, you
know, 30 to 20% vacancy ratesright now.
Yeah, that means 30 to 20% ofthe office furniture that's on
(11:06):
that space is.
You know, they have to come upwith a solution for it, you know
.
So I mean, from that standpoint, it's a, you know it's a
nightmare.
But if we just do a comparisonto what we're doing to a new
manufacturer, if you comparelike an LCA we did one back in
2016.
We did one back in 2016.
(11:31):
We have one that's being doneright now to make it more
current.
But just based on that, if wejust look at the global warming
impact, at the materials andprocess and the energy, we sit
on a 17%, 19% and 7% footprintrespectively and that's not a
reduction.
I mean, that's the footprint.
And right now.
I know it's very vogue to talkabout just the CO2 avoidance and
global warming avoidance, butwhen you're looking at a life
cycle and you go across theboard.
(11:52):
Now you're starting to look atozone depletion and you're
starting to look at soilpollution and water pollution.
If you take a look at thatbroad scope of things, we sit on
less than a 20% footprintcompared to an original OEM in
that analysis.
So you know that's a staggeringnumber.
Now, the caveat here is you'realways going to have that
(12:13):
initial hit in the product tobegin with, but there's no
reason why office furniturecan't be remanufactured once,
and sometimes twice, toperpetuate its life, to try to
keep it out of the landfill asmuch as possible and to cut down
on the energy and pollution.
That goes along with themanufacturing process and
inclusion, that goes along withthe manufacturing process.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I'm curious if you're bringing the product back up to
a like-new standard.
Are there standards in thespace to differentiate between
companies like yours and justanybody doing?
Speaker 1 (12:40):
it.
Well, there's a couple ofthings that we're doing, that we
have third-party analysis onwhat we're up to.
One is that lifecycleassessment that kind of gives an
overview.
One is that lifecycleassessment that kind of gives an
overview.
But we also work with theBusiness and Institutional
Furniture ManufacturersAssociation and they have a
BIFMA-level standard.
(13:02):
This is the sustainabilitystandard for new furniture and
that's an on-site audit of whatyou're doing every three years
and remotely every year.
So we are BIFMO level twocertified for nine different
product lines from Steelcase andfor Hayward, and so you know
that for our customers, you knowthat's a very, very strong
(13:25):
assurance that you know we'rebeing manufactured and be
recognized at the same level asa new furniture manufacturer.
But there's also an ANSIstandard out there and with that
ANSI standard forremanufacturing you know that is
that you have to manufacture,remanufacture your product to
like new condition and so we canbring it to like new.
(13:46):
We can actually go beyond that.
We call it sometimes that weremanufacture better than new,
and what we mean by that andthat goes back to the a la carte
aspect is that we can do thingswith the furniture that
originally wasn't supposed to do.
There was a project in Manhattanthat was going on with Colgate,
and the architect had a visionof space that they wanted to do
(14:10):
and had nothing to do withremanufacturing, but they had a
vision of what that they wantedto do and had nothing to do with
remanufacturing, but they had avision of what they wanted to
do with the space.
And they had gone to a major OEMI'll let them remain nameless
and had gone to them and saidyou know, this is obviously what
we need to do with ourfurniture.
And the OEM said you know, wecan't do that.
We don't do that with furniture, right, because this is the way
(14:35):
we do things.
And so we came to them and Isaid no, we can do that.
So we butted, we butted,veneering, uh, together, we put
glass on the top that met at 90degrees.
Uh, we, we really went, wentabove and beyond everything on
the project and we met thevision of space that the
architect had and at the sametime, it was a LEED, certified
LEED goal.
It was right on Park Ave, andso we were able to do things
(14:56):
better than the original OEMcould with their own furniture.
So we made the furniture betterthan new.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
That's amazing.
The 80s and 90s, with the oldway that offices were, with the
high cubicle walls, and reallythinking about now, in modern
offices, that everything's somuch more collaborative, as you
say, much lower, if there's evenwalls at all, and lots of glass
and natural light.
It makes a ton of sense thatyou're really fulfilling on that
(15:29):
vision and taking this existingproduct that's already been
manufacturing the resources havealready gone into the
commodities and themanufacturing of the product and
you're just taking it to thisnew application.
Which makes me think aboutsomething that we think about at
Quantum.
We have electronics that wemarket that are refurbished
(15:52):
because they can be used again.
There's still lots of life leftin them.
But sometimes we really have toencourage people and companies
to overcome the mindset blockthat because something is not
brand new, it is perhapsinferior, which we know is not
the case.
When we offer warranties andprovide a lot of assurance that
(16:13):
the product that you're gettingis a great product and will last
, is it the same for you?
And how do you get people toreally think differently around
this whole concept ofremanufacturing and that it is
something to choose?
You don't have to choose new,especially not all the time.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
It's an interesting one.
So I've been in the industryobviously for quite a long time.
I've been with Davies for 12years and, as we have this
conversation right now, I hopeyou're beginning to understand
the difference betweenrefurbishing and remanufacturing
.
But although we've had thisconversation, if you go off and
have this conversation withsomebody else, you'll and
remanufacturing.
But although we've had thisconversation, if you go off and
have this conversation withsomebody else, you'll say
(16:54):
remanufacturing, but the personon the other side is hearing
refurbishing and then when theyhave that conversation with
somebody else, they're sayingrefurbishing and the next person
is hearing use.
So we always have to beconstantly educating on what
we're about and what we do.
That differentiates itself fromrefurbishing and use.
First of all, if a product canbe refurbished, I'm all for it.
(17:17):
I mean, that's going to be agreat price point, right, and
it's not going to land.
If a product can be reusedagain, I'm all for that.
Also, there's a large bank downin Dallas that we worked with
and they wanted to bank all thestuff and they were going to
come in there with New HermanMiller and it went over to the
other side of town and they hadthis beautiful steel case
(17:38):
answered there, and thishappened right before the
pandemic and it was beautifulfurniture, as I termed it.
It was museum quality.
I went back into the customersand I said you know you're out
of your mind to get rid of thisfurniture if you're going to be
doing this here.
I said you know you're out ofyour mind to get rid of this
furniture.
If you're going to be doingthis here, let's see about
(18:00):
reusing the furniture that youhave and add to it to get that
once again, that architect'svision of space they have for it
.
So in that circumstance we'reable to show the customer how to
reuse that product in a newapplication, which they weren't
contemplating on doing at all.
So basically, we avoided themanufacturing of new furniture.
So that's all that.
And then we were able to reusethe product again, which is
probably one of the best thingsyou can do and then salt into
that remanufactured product.
(18:21):
So that was a win-win for thecustomer.
They saved an awful lot ofmoney on a couple of projects in
Dallas and Houston, but at thesame time they avoided the
landfill.
They avoided all thoseenvironmental problems that go
along with that, that's neat.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Okay, doug, I want to get into our how-to section,
and you've mentioned aroundmanufacturers, and there are
certain manufacturers that insome cases build such great
quality product that theyoverbuild.
But how to get moremanufacturers on board with
embracing remanufacturing?
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Well, all the major manufacturers are aware of it.
They all had their toe in thewater at one time.
So Steelcase had a venturecalled Revest which was
refurbishing back then.
They tried it and they got outof it.
Now, only they know for surewhy they got out of it.
They tried it and they got outof it.
Now, only they know for surewhy they got out of it.
I'm of the opinion that theydidn't want to compete against
(19:16):
their own furniture.
I thought that maybe they werestealing off one plate for going
against the new furniture,which is a shame because it
could have been a great pricepoint arrangement.
And I know that Miller had beeninvolved with something like
this, and also Steelcase excuseme, all Steel.
But I think they're revisitingthis now.
A lot of the customers on thebackside of the pandemic are
(19:38):
going back to the OEMs andsaying you know, you told us all
about the great sustainabilityaspects of this furniture prior
to the pandemic.
Now that we're doing thisrestack, this hybrid office, why
can't you help us out with ourold furniture?
So I think the motivation forthe OEMs is going to be the
(19:59):
pushback from their customers.
That being said, it's going tobe difficult for them.
Because, if you remember, thetraditional model in office
furniture is that you have amanufacturer that goes to their
regional sales of people, thatthen goes to localized
dealerships, so it's a greatdownstream distribution network.
But what happens when you tryto reverse that?
(20:20):
You know what's the motivationfor the dealer salesperson, you
know who may be on a commissionbasis to come in and get rid of
that furniture and not sell thecustomer new.
So that's an issue.
You know.
One of our strengths is we havea direct relationship with our
customers.
We basically our projectmanagers, come in, we oversee
the decommissioning of theirfurniture, we oversee the
(20:41):
shipping of that product back tous.
Our designers design the space,working with the end user or
with interior designers andarchitects on the project.
Then we are shipping and we'redelivering and we're installing.
So I know this is the farmtable approach to office
furniture.
We are actively a partner withour customers.
You get an awful lot ofintermediates in the business
(21:03):
model with the new OEMs betweenyou and the people who are
actually doing the furniture.
So it's going to be difficultfor them to reverse it.
Now what they should be doing,and what I'm hoping they're
doing, is they start to createpartnerships and realize that
we're all in this together, thatwe all have to come up with
solutions together.
It's a big tent and thatremanufacturers and refurbishers
can work with them to come upwith solutions for the old
(21:28):
furniture and get it back intoplay.
Now there's organizations likeOrange Box in the UK.
They are working withindependent manufacturers,
refurbishers for their seatingline and I've talked to some of
the remanufacturers in the UK.
It's a good program.
When an old chair comes in,orange Box will supply them with
(21:50):
parts and pieces that arenecessary to refurbish and bring
the chair back up to newstandards.
And then there's also Arendt, aDutch company in the EU.
Now they are embracing officespace, office furniture
furniture as a service.
So they have programs where thefurniture goes in, the clients
can use it over the course oftheir lease and at the end of
(22:12):
that, built into this program isthat the furniture can come out
.
So I think those two programsand programs like it can work
here in the States.
It's just going to take somework to get it up and running.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, some thought leadership, some collaboration.
I love that point about we allhave to work together towards
the solution we're trying to dothat too.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
We don't collaboration I love that point
about we all have to worktogether towards the solution.
We're trying to do that too.
We don't necessarily feel thatwe have all the answers for our
customers.
We want to be a solutionsprovider and sometimes the
solution is not working withDavis.
So we are.
And I know up in Ontario youhave a great organization up
there with Green Standard, and Ithink you've heard us speak
with Green Standard in the past.
You know, in another world wewould almost think of ourselves
(22:55):
as competitors in this space,but you know that Green Standard
can come up with a greatalternative for the reuse of
furniture at the end of its life, of the customer, something
that we can't provide, such as,you know, enabling a donation
program, and that's notsomething we do but they do.
And so what we have recognizedis that we need to be
collaborating with them at thisarea to come up with the
(23:17):
ultimate solution for a circulareconomic growth.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Now, Doug, I wanted to ask you one more how-to
question, and you speak aboutmotivations, and I love that.
What are the motivations ofmanufacturers, for example, that
you can tap into for this?
Our listeners of this podcast alot of them are business
managers and leaders who arepart of the decision making
(23:41):
process for their companies, butthey're not necessarily the
sole decision maker andtherefore they have to get the
buy in from their senior leaderson various aspects.
What would you say?
How to get your senior leaderson board with remanufacturing,
how to tap into their motivation?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Well, I don't know.
As you're probably aware,sustainability within a major
corporation has to be a top-downprogram.
You know, if you'remid-management and you're trying
to and your eyes are open andyou realize what a solution this
is in all environmental thingsSometimes it's a hard push
(24:23):
trying to get to work above tothe powers above you and trying
to get them motivated into theprogram.
So when we facility managerslove what we do, so when we
facility managers love what wedo, you know for us sometimes in
the past what it was, it wasyou know we sold our products
from.
You know, try to get initiatedfrom price point.
(24:44):
Now that's easy to get a CFOand a CEO of a company on board.
When you show that you knowyou're going to get the company
out of the warehouse businessand we're going to save them
some money on the project.
But with ESG this is a bigdriver right now and a lot of
what we're doing really appealsto companies that are embracing
(25:04):
ESG.
So from that standpoint youbasically come up with we're
pursuing ESG as a company.
This is a great part of it andI've seen this evolution.
I worked on a project down inNew Brunswick and I put in 50
stations of steel-based answerand I was all excited part of it
, and I've seen this evolution.
I worked on a project down inNew Brunswick and they put in 50
stations of steel-based answerand I was all excited.
I was with the facility managerand I'm jumping up and down.
(25:25):
I said, oh, I can't wait tillthese employees know that this
is remanufactured furniture.
And she said you do not tell myemployees anybody that this is
remanufactured furniture.
We don't want them to thinkthat they're, you know,
second-class citizens receiving,you know, something that's
that's used.
I mean this these stations werebeautiful.
You could never tell that theywere remanufactured, so you know
(25:46):
.
So I was a little sad from thatstandpoint, uh.
But uh, on the other side ofthat, not more than two weeks
later, I was at con ed inmanhattan and we worked on a
project with them and they wereso happy about it.
They want to put a mural on thewall with all their
sustainability savings and whatthey were doing and in that
particular project, what theywant, they want the employees to
(26:09):
see all the great things theywere doing and to celebrate that
, because it was employeeretention and it was employee
traction to know that, you know,your company is in pursuit of
sustainability.
So, yeah, it's like and it'sand that's.
That was kind of for me, that'swhen I started to really see the
ship.
And then there was a major,major beverage company that we
(26:32):
did a presentation for at our HQin Albany and you know they
wheeled me out in the 11th hourand I was doing my
sustainability conversation andI had some management in the
back of the room pointing at thewatches, saying hurry up, and I
clicked through and I clickedthrough and I showed the
sustainability savings metricsthat we gave one of our clients
(26:53):
on their project and the womanthat was there, said hold that
frame right there.
And she pointed to her wholeteam was there, said hold that
frame right there.
And she pointed to her wholeteam.
She said see that frame.
That's the reason why we'rehere today and I have to say at
that point I felt such avalidation in what we're doing
and what I'm trying to do andget the word out that it was a
great moment for me.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, and you know what I just got goosebumps.
So thank you for that.
Yeah, so celebrate.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
So thank you for that , yeah, so celebrate Turn down
your air conditioner.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
It's not because of that, doug.
We've covered so much, and ifthere was one thing that you
could leave listeners with oneaction to take a piece of advice
, doug, what would that be?
Speaker 1 (27:37):
one action.
To take a piece of advice, doug, what would that be?
Reuse, don't throw it away, nomatter what it is.
Take a second look, whetherit's your office furniture,
whether it's the technology inyour office, whatever.
See if you can prolong the lifeof something or get something
of a quality that's going tohave a long shelf life, and try
(27:59):
to keep it out of the landfilland have a small environment.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Here, here.
I couldn't have said it better.
Thank you, Doug.
This is really insightful and Iappreciate you being here.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I appreciate it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
And remember, if you're looking for a partner in
electronics reuse and recycling,we'd love to chat Head on over
to quantumlifecyclecom andcontact us.
This is a Quantum Lifecyclepodcast and the producer is
Sanjay Trivedi.
Thank you for being a CircularFuture Champion in your company
and beyond.
Logging off.
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