November 7, 2024 • 29 mins
Petri Hayrynen, Global Head of Product Marketing at HMD Global, joins us for an insightful conversation about sustainable smartphones. We delve into HMD's innovative approach to crafting devices that are not only durable but also easy to repair. Petri shares how HMD's design philosophy focuses on simplifying the repair process, making it accessible to everyone.
The episode highlights HMD's unique collaborations with brands like Barbie and Sony. These partnerships not only enhance brand identity but also reinforce HMD's commitment to sustainability. We explore how these collaborations help make sustainability in mobile devices more appealing to a wider audience.
We also discuss HMD's Better Phone Project, which aims to promote digital well-being, particularly among young people. By working with parents and experts, HMD is addressing the issue of digital overload and fostering healthier digital habits.
The conversation touches on the challenges of engaging the supply chain and the importance of strategic partnerships. HMD's collaborations with brands like FC Barcelona and Heineken demonstrate their dedication to making sustainability a core value in the mobile industry.
Key Takeaways
- Human-Centered Design: HMD prioritizes understanding the needs and preferences of its target audience, "Emily," to create devices that are both functional and desirable.
- Repairability as a Core Value: HMD is committed to making its devices easily repairable by designing them with modular components and providing clear instructions.
- Digital Well-being: HMD recognizes the importance of digital health and is actively working on solutions to help users manage their screen time and reduce digital overload.
- Strategic Partnerships: Collaborations with brands like Barbie, Sony, and FC Barcelona help HMD reach a wider audience and amplify its sustainability message.
- Purpose-Driven Innovation: HMD's focus on sustainability and social responsibility drives innovation and helps the company stand out in a competitive market.
Join us as we explore how HMD is redefining the smartphone industry, creating devices that are both stylish and sustainable.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie McLarty (00:04):
How do you make a smartphone that is
sustainable, repairable and coolat the same time?
Welcome to the Circular Future,your access to thought leaders
and innovations to help you be abusiness sustainability
champion, even if it's not yourcore job.
I'm your host, StephanieMcLarty, Head of Sustainability
(00:24):
at Quantum Lifecycle Partners.
There are a lot of factors thatgo into smartphone design.
Hmd, or Human Mobile Devices,is Europe's largest smartphone
manufacturer that is winningawards for its fresh take on
making phones durable,repairable and fun, and they've
(00:45):
sold over 400 million phonesalong the way since 2016.
With me to unpack how they do.
It is Petri Harunen, GlobalHead of Product Marketing for
HMD.
Petri has been an integral partin shaping how HMD challenges
the status quo in theultra-competitive mobile tech
market.
(01:05):
He is a big advocate ofdesigning for repairability and
building more responsibleproduct roadmaps, and has almost
20 years of experience in theindustry with brands like Apple
and Nokia.
And because we're recordingthis live in front of an
audience at the eSummit, let'sget started so fun.
(01:29):
Welcome to the podcast, Petri.
Petri Hayrynen (01:30):
Thank you, thank you.
Stephanie McLarty (01:32):
Have we done anything like this before?
Petri Hayrynen (01:34):
I have to say no , this is the first time.
Stephanie McLarty (01:36):
Well, awesome , I'm so thankful that you're
here and that you're brave to dothis in front of a live
audience, and I know we're goingto have a great conversation.
We're going to talk about howyou make great sustainable
phones.
We'll get into some big whyquestions on why you do things
differently than others.
We'll talk about a few how-toquestions and then finish off
(01:57):
with a piece of advice.
But first let's start as wealways do and let's get a peek
into your world at HMD and youknow, for some of us, we may not
be so aware of HMD.
What would be?
Three things that we may notnecessarily know about HMD?
Petri Hayrynen (02:16):
That's a good question.
I think you stole a few of thethings to say, like in the intro
, so thanks for that.
Maybe I'll start with one thingwhich, to me, is really, really
cool.
So Al Roker from USA, from theToday Show and NBC, has actually
used one of our devices on Ithink it was like 8 in the
morning so the HMD Barbie phone,which is one of our latest ones
(02:37):
, so that's something that's areally fun fact.
On the partnership side, I thinkit's worth to mention that
we've actually been quite busy.
We've been doing things withbig brands like well, I
mentioned Barbie alreadyObviously, nokia phones.
We've been making those for along time.
There's also a phone that wedid with Heineken called the
Boring Phone, which is not asboring as it sounds.
(02:58):
And then lately we justactually worked with Sony on the
latest Venom film, so VenomLast Dance.
We did some cool stuff for that, and that's then going to be on
Friday in the movie theater.
So go buy tickets, somethingthat I should say.
And the last thing is, weactually got a Time Best
Invention Award for 2023 for ourfirst repairable device, which
(03:20):
is really, really cool as well.
Stephanie McLarty (03:22):
Yeah, that is amazing and we'll talk about
that.
First, I wanted to ask youabout something that's on your
website.
I love the language that youuse.
It hits home for me, it's verydirect, and one of the things
you say is you can't spellsustainability without the
letter R, which maybe isn't sodirect, so please explain what
(03:47):
that actually means.
Petri Hayrynen (03:48):
Yeah, it's been a lot of fun in copywriting
Brian, our copywriter.
He's probably working in hisdream job right now because of
the way that we've sort of setup our brand.
It's quite a humorous way oftalking about serious stuff.
So, obviously, three R's, Imean it's the repair, reuse and
recycle, but that's one of theparts of sustainability and of
(04:10):
course it goes way beyond thatas well.
But that's just a littlewordplay that we have on the
site.
Stephanie McLarty (04:16):
So very similar to quantum.
We follow that as well, andit's all part of the waste
hierarchy when you really thinkabout it.
Okay, so you just mentionedabout your time best inventions
list acknowledgement for 2023.
You've also received fromiFixit a 9 out of 10 score,
which is incredible inperspective.
(04:38):
How do you start making a phonethat is, you know, repairable?
How do you approach makinghuman mobile device?
Petri Hayrynen (04:51):
That's a good question.
Yes, we have two phones nowwith our latest repairability,
which we call Gen 2repairability, where I mean you
were taking one apart yesterdayit's very possible to do even if
you've never done it before.
So we have two phones that havethat.
They both got the nine out of10 score.
One of them was this denimphone as well.
So I mean human mobile devices.
It's essentially everythinglinks back to some human needs
(05:14):
and, and when we kind of go ondesigning devices like this, we
need to make them so that peopleactually want to use them as
well.
And that then has somelimitations when it comes to the
design.
But we ask a lot of questionsfrom the customers, from our
target audience, what they wantto be doing, and every now and
then they maybe don't knowexactly what they want on a
(05:35):
device.
Like if you ask a person, doyou want to repair a broken
screen on your phone?
Most likely the answer is likeI would, but I probably don't
know how to.
So then it's about trying tokind of build it in the right
way that they are able to do it,and it comes with a lot of
research, like trying to figureout what the best ways of
getting into that are.
(05:55):
But our approach is very muchabout sort of looking at the
basic way of putting phonestogether and then sort of
starting to strip that down alittle bit to the bare bones and
thinking of the way that weshould be doing things.
And then we go, obviously, andwork with the, the odm side our
manufacturers, our engineers,work with them a lot to build
new types of solutions or newways of approaching existing
(06:19):
solutions, and then ending upwith the device that still has
the appeal that people actuallywant to buy it, rather than it
being something that's boxy andlooks just like another
repairable phone because theyhave been there before those
things as well.
Stephanie McLarty (06:32):
Yeah, I can imagine that if repairability is
top of the list for what youdesign for, it would look very
different than if you'redesigning first and foremost for
something that people want touse and, you know, to fit in
their pocket and lightweight andall of that.
So balancing what people thinkthey want versus what they
(06:54):
actually want, it could be animportant distinction.
Who is your target marketreally?
What do they look like?
Petri Hayrynen (07:01):
So we actually have a target person that we
think about every time, who wedesign devices.
We call her Emily.
I think there was even an Emilyin the room here it wasn't you,
maybe it is now but we look atmuch of like a younger audience.
So we do think about Gen Zersthese days and people who use
their devices a lot and theysort of live by the devices.
But also we try to build phonesthat are just good for people.
(07:25):
So we look at what emily needsin terms of the device.
So of course, there needs to beall of the basic things like
great cameras and good displaysand you be, you need to be able
to use it as a daily driver.
But at the same time liketrying to balance that out with
the sustainability bits, likethe repairability you know,
using because of materials,making sure that the devices
(07:46):
last longer, that they'redurable enough, but also then
looking at different things likehow do you balance your digital
life and make sure that you'renot using your phone too much,
because that's something thatpeople also recognize is an
issue these days, especiallywhen you go into that like Gen Z
space.
So it's a lot of things really,but we do have like a very
certain type of a customerprofile that we work towards,
(08:08):
and I think that's also ifyou've seen any of the marketing
assets.
Any ways that we talk about it,it's sort of directed directly
to those type of people, andthen we sort of noticed that
that also then plays pretty wellfor the rest of the people who
are excited about these types ofsolutions.
Stephanie McLarty (08:26):
Well, I'm probably a target market because
all that language really spoketo me.
Now, yesterday, as youmentioned, I participated in the
repair off in which there were12 of us that had to deconstruct
and remove the screen and thebattery from the skyline.
Is that correct, the rightmodel?
Petri Hayrynen (08:47):
Yeah.
Stephanie McLarty (08:47):
Yeah, and for me I had never repaired
anything electronic.
This was the first time.
I didn't realize it was goingto be even a new box, and so I
just thought, well, I mean,we'll follow the instructions
through, I fix it.
And I have to admit I didpretty good.
(09:09):
I mean, I didn't win thecompetition at all, but I was
actually proud in how much Icould actually do on my own and
it really surprised me.
So how have you made yourphones repairable in a way that
others haven't?
How have you scored a nine outof 10 for my fix it?
Petri Hayrynen (09:30):
Yeah, so I mean a couple of things.
I mean thank you for taking apart yesterday.
I think it was really good andI'm happy because everybody else
was very much a professionalwho was there.
I think that also showed off afew bits of you know insights as
well.
Like you were probably therewhen we were looking.
It was looking at the full-oniFixit guide on how to take it
apart and there weren't too manythings that you were sort of
(09:54):
doing extra on the device.
There weren't too many thingsthat you were sort of doing
extra on the device.
I saw there were people maybegoing a little bit too rough on
the opening mechanism of it,because there's a really cool
cam on like popping the backcover off.
We're in a sustainabilitysummit here and it probably was
a little bit counterintuitive tohave like fresh phones that are
unpacked and then teared down.
But yeah, maybe in retrospectwe we need to get something, as
(10:16):
we wanted to have like a levelplaying field that they haven't
been touched before we wouldhave otherwise.
We were looking at device thathad been opened already, but
then it's not the same thinganymore.
So yeah, back to the question.
We sort of try to make it asfoolproof as possible, and
that's when you read theinstructions.
So if you actually look at theway off of how do you open the
(10:36):
device and which screws do youneed to remove in order to get
into the display, then you areable to do that quite easily
those by yourself.
So what we want to go after isfor people, when they break
their own screen, they don'thave to live to learn to live
(10:58):
with that broken screen.
They actually take it in theirown hands and fix it.
It costs about 100 bucks toorder that screen, for example,
which isn't that steep.
So then you go and look at theinstructions.
You get all the tools and theparts able to put it together,
like take it apart, swap thedisplay, put it back together.
You get that sensation of justyou know, gratuity for being
able to do something on your ownthat fixes your phone and sort
(11:23):
of like, makes you one of the Ithink it was like 33% of people
who just don't learn to livewith that broken screen,
according to our studies.
So I think the key part isreally to make it foolproof and
make it something that anybodycan do, rather than trying to
sort of make it something thatrequires huge tools or some
specialty things.
So here I mean, ours to go towas that you need the opening
(11:45):
pick and you need a screwdriver,and that should be enough to do
the process.
And of course, then it's likelooking at how everything is in
place.
It's a bit more modular thanmaybe regular devices are, but
still the main challenge isobviously keeping it slim and
something that people want toput in their pocket, because all
of these things are alwaystrade-offs.
Stephanie McLarty (12:05):
Yeah, they're always trade-offs.
You're essentially designingfor Emily, not like my husband
or mobile device team at Quantum.
You're designing for the enduser that may not have a lot of
experience repairing phones.
Petri Hayrynen (12:20):
Yeah, exactly, and we did a lot of studies on
this.
I'm sure people love me becauseI pick on people who've never
done this before.
Usually, if I'm in an eventsomewhere, I pick somebody who's
sort of like fitting the bill,making sure that I ask them,
like have you ever repaired thephone?
Give them a screwdriver and aguitar pick and the phone and
like here's instructions.
Or then I guide them directlyand telling them what to do and
(12:42):
look at them when they're sortof like afraid of taking the
product, putting it backtogether and sort of seeing them
being able to do that.
So, yeah, it's quite a big, bigsort of a feat that we're able
to do this.
Stephanie McLarty (12:54):
HMD has really done things in a
different way than othercompanies.
One of the things that reallystruck me you have a Better
Phone Project, which is thefirst phone that was co-created
by parents to protect mentalwell-being for young people.
Why would you do that?
Petri Hayrynen (13:12):
Yeah, so it hasn't been created yet.
We've had two sessions.
We're working with parentaladvocacy groups, end users, so
we've actually had people whoare I think the youngest ones
have been like 13 participatingin these live webinars that we
do.
I think we have two more left.
We have professionals fromuniversities, from different
(13:34):
types of medical institutionsand those sort of things,
psychologists who just they'rethe smartest people in the world
on what are the impacts ofdigital overload and especially
on developing people.
So when talking about kids andit's all based on the fact that
you know the solutions that areout there right now they aren't
really suitable for giving yourkid a phone, for example.
(13:57):
It doesn't have everythingincluded, so it's either too
limited and that.
What then makes it so theparents are actually like half
of the people who've actuallygiven devices out to their kids
regret or I think it was evenmore than that.
It was like three out of fourparents who've given their kid a
smartphone actually regret that.
50% of people.
(14:21):
They see that their personality, if their children, are
actually changing when they'reusing their device, so they get
hooked on it very quickly.
Smartphones are kind of likedrugs for a lot of people.
When you go into social media.
You know that's where where allof the the overload happens.
It all comes from this realneed to have a solution.
That is the better phone andtoday, like parents have
actually, they needed to sort ofcreate their own solutions
because there isn't anythingthat is good enough.
(14:42):
And of course, there aredifferent types of needs for
different types of people anddepending on the ages of the
people, it's not only kids, it'salso other people who recognize
the fact that they need to cutdown on screen time or cut down
on social media usage and theyneed some tools.
So Better Phone Project is verymuch about just building a
phone that sort of allows you tobalance the digital life and
(15:03):
gives you those right toolsthere.
Stephanie McLarty (15:06):
Wow, I've read that you're actually
encouraging people to use theirphone less, like even adults,
for all of us to use their phoneless.
How do you do that?
Petri Hayrynen (15:16):
Yeah.
So of course I mean we are sortof part of the problem because
we built the phones that you gethooked on.
But we also recognize there'stons of good in smartphones,
like you can't really livewithout them these days.
Everything happens there.
You're banking, you're, youknow payments, you're travel.
There's so many things that areconnected to it.
It's, it's essentially the onetool that you can't live without
.
That's where repairably comesin as well, because you don't
(15:38):
want to be without it.
But at the same time, you knowwe do recognize the fact that
people these days got cuttingback on it.
So it's about we especiallylike again, look at the emily
there, the 16 to 24 year oldaudience who who been sort of
growing up with smartphones fromthe, the get-go, so they've
actually been immersed into that.
I remember when I joinedfacebook at some point, it was
(16:00):
like I had to get an invitation,or gmail, I had to get an
invitation to it.
Now you grow up with it.
It's the first thing that youget when you have that device.
So so they've grown up with andthey've sort of realized that
it's just it's kind of runningtheir lives and dictating way
too much what they're doing.
So it's about like eight out of10 people, according to our
studies, have been looking atdifferent ways of cutting back
on screen time, and about 40%they're actually they're
(16:23):
recognizing the fact thatthey're spending too much time
on social media.
We've already started creatingtools for it.
Of course we've had our featurephones, which are quite big, so
the Nokia 3210s and the Barbiephone.
Now it been super popular, soldout pretty much everywhere.
People look at those devices assort of shifting over from their
their smartphone for theweekend.
They just take something that'slike a dumb phone and you don't
(16:45):
want to.
You know you don't have to beimmersed into anything.
They can actually make phonecalls, which is something that
younger kids don't don't dothese days anymore.
Nobody has their theirringtones on anymore.
But then it's also about theway that you use your smartphone
.
So we build on the Skyline.
We have a detox mode which youflick a switch and it actually
switches off all of your socialmedia or the apps that you want.
(17:05):
It can also be used for workand those sort of things, so you
can then decide how long youwant to do these like burst
detox, burst detox.
So we're looking at differentsolutions of like.
How do you allow people to gaincontrol over their digital
balance in terms of using theirdevices?
Stephanie McLarty (17:21):
That's cool.
I love the idea of detox modeand actually having that as a
feature.
Okay, let's move into our howto section, where I ask you how
to questions and you know theoriginal intention was for this
to be rapid fire in the podcast,but it was never rapid fire, so
you can answer them as short oras long as you like.
Okay, first one as you'vecreated these great, sustainable
(17:45):
, repairable phones, how tostructure your teams to do so?
I mean, who is on your teaminside your organization and who
leads it?
Petri Hayrynen (17:55):
So that is a really quick question and I
think that's something thatmaybe changes per project quite
a lot.
So we do build in tons ofcustomer insights into it.
So marketing is always going tobe a big part of it, and we
sort of start looking at theneeds of the target customer,
start then building devicesaccording to those needs, but it
depends on a phone.
Of course there's some thingsthat just need to exist
(18:16):
according to those needs, but itdepends on a phone.
Of course there's some thingsthat just need to exist.
I think the overall it's not somuch about who's in the team,
it's about everybody's committedto the end goal and understands
what the value is that we needto hit with that device and what
sort of the key message is onthat phone.
And that way everybody can pullon the same rope and it doesn't
become like a question of okay,this now hits a certain step in
(18:38):
the leadership and it's like itgets killed because they're not
sort of singing the same tune aseveryone else is.
So I think like we have a veryflat organization and there are
tons of people who are involvedin it and, as with the better
phone you know, it even comesfrom the source.
It actually comes from theusers.
We are building a phonetogether with you know people,
which is something that nobody'sever done before in this
(18:59):
industry, so you always sort ofdictate what a user should be
doing with their device.
I know that's not a rapid fireanswer, but it's.
It's all about the fact thatyou're aligned and it doesn't
really matter who's part of itat that point.
But but of course, like youneed to tick the boxes so that
you can make things happen.
Stephanie McLarty (19:15):
Yeah, and so, speaking of alignment, next
question how to engage yoursupply chain.
So you're working in alignment,because I know you've talked
about before the importance ofyour supply chain being a part
of the whole repairabilitysolution.
Yeah, yeah.
Petri Hayrynen (19:31):
So I think, like supply chain, it's especially
when we look at themanufacturing side of things and
the phone business hasn't beenexactly even though we look at,
we talk about.
I think that's also why youstart looking at the whole
industry and all the devicesthat are out there.
It's more of this like graymass, as I like to call it, and
(20:03):
we sort of see ourselves as abit of a disruptor in that.
So we want to do things a bitdifferently.
I think that the biggest partfor us is helping the supply
chain.
So of course, you need to makesure from the sustainability
side that everybody's playingball.
But on top of that, you sort ofhave to give them the right
tools, because they worry aboutquality.
They worry about, like, makingsure that they can deliver on
(20:27):
the promise of we're going tomake you a device and all the
components are going to fit intoit.
So sometimes and this is whathappens pretty much every time
is that when we go and tell oursupply chain we want to do this,
this is our idea, they're like,no, that can't be done.
That means that we have toguide them into doing it.
So it's a lot of like takingthe engineering into your own
hands and sort of helping themnavigate.
(20:47):
And obviously by doing that,because the the industry is so
sort of interconnected, I thinkwe're also helping other
manufacturers then and the wholeindustry sort of moving forward
.
So yeah, it's again a longanswer to a rapid fire question,
but hopefully that covers it.
Stephanie McLarty (21:03):
Hey, don't worry about the rapid fire
anymore.
But last question, you'vespoken about some of the
partnerships you have.
Fc Barcelona was one we haven'ttouched on, but Sony
Entertainment, the Venom movies,mattel, heineken, and this
conference is really all aboutfostering cooperation to move
(21:24):
our goals forward, to advanceelectronic sustainability.
So how to get the most out ofyour partnerships?
Petri Hayrynen (21:32):
of your partnerships.
Yeah, I think you know if wewere to just and I'm glad you
mentioned FC Barcelona, I'mpretty much killing myself
because I forgot it.
It's probably the biggest oneof the all and, like how we've
approached the whole thing isabout making sure that we well,
whatever we do in terms ofpartnerships, we really bring
the heart out of it.
So we did the Barbie phone withMattel and it was it's like
(21:53):
full on Barbie.
It's for Barbie fans.
We were thinking about, likewhat does a Barbie's phone look
like?
What does need to be includedin the pack?
So it's like a full on unboxingexperience and really bringing
it to life like from the get go.
When you actually get the boxinto using the device, there's
like a missed call from Ken andyou know there are all these
different types of charms insidethe box.
It's just like if you've neverseen it, like go and go and
(22:15):
check online.
It's just great, great, greatstuff.
And it doesn't matter like ifyou're a female or a male or
whatever you know, or what ageyou are.
You're going to be excitedabout the phone at some level.
And the Barcelona one is also.
Like you know, we are lookingat right now the best way of
engaging the whole community,like the fans and the players,
and like really buildingsomething that has the essence
(22:36):
of FC Barcelona at the heart,because it is such a big
organization and so, like youknow, rooted to Catalonia, and
like it's one of the biggestsports teams in the world, so
there's a huge following to it.
So I think that's a long sort ofsegue into what I was trying to
say is that if we just go intobuilding repairable devices and
we would just go by the factthat, hey, this is a phone that
(22:56):
you can drop the screen on, it'snever going to create any type
of a connection, so it's notgoing to make a dent in the
industry.
So that's why the partnershipsare super important for us is
building the brand, building thehuman mobile devices, actually
making it sort of, in a non sortof annoying way, relatable to a
lot of people, and that way wecan then push the message.
So the message of repairability, sustainability, you know,
(23:18):
trying to create things thatwe're trying to do in this
industry.
We have to find a softer way ofdoing that, because if you go
in and say that, hey, this iswhat you need to be doing
because the world is on fire,it's probably not going to be
the best way of doing it.
People realize that, like,especially if you go to the
younger audience, it's aboutsort of showing them what we're
doing stuff and making it intolike speaking the right language
(23:39):
, making it into relatable thingfor them.
And that's where the whole kindof partner chain you got to
partner up with people who arethe right type, who have the
same type of of an agenda.
So that's we're super carefulabout, like the partners that we
work with and everybody needsto have the same heart.
So I think that's that'sprobably the key like choose
your partners right and makesure that, uh, they're
(24:00):
everybody's delivering on theirstrengths and trying to make it
more relatable.
Stephanie McLarty (24:05):
Yeah, and on that point of relatability, I
feel like for us to trulyachieve electronic
sustainability, we need to getbetter at communicating,
communicating it, communicatingthe advantages, and so that is
so.
On point, I get it, but thenagain, maybe I'm I'm an Emily
and you're reaching the Emily'sin this.
Petri Hayrynen (24:26):
Yeah, so I mean, well, as an example for
repairability, we actuallycreated an ASMR video on repair
and that's on YouTube.
I think it's even here.
There's just the clickingnoises and everything that you
have when you're, you know,taking the phone apart.
I was actually doing that, soI'm kind of like a famous in
that that says but then we alsolooked at, you know, we did
training videos that we'reactually giving out to the
(24:47):
public, which are normallyinternal, so we just make sure
the sort of production value ishigh enough on that.
It is very much about thecommunication and speaking the
right language and not being,you know, obnoxious, about we're
doing the right thing in theworld and like trying to just
shine because of something and,of course, like I think the one
thing is, um, we're not supposedto swear anything, so I'm not
(25:09):
going to do that.
But you know, you have to havethe people that we speak to
these days, especially if you gointo the younger audience.
They've got the best bs radarin the world.
So you have to have the peoplethat we speak to these days,
especially if you go into theyounger audience.
They've got the best BS radarin the world, so you have to
have your house in order, you'vegot to make sure that you're
sort of delivering on all of thebits and pieces.
When you look at your supplychain, you know you look at the
way that you handle yourbusiness and remember the fact
that you're always somebodyscope three at the same time,
(25:31):
like even if you talk to thepartners where you're trying to
sell to.
So just it like comes from manydifferent pieces, that it
becomes a sincere thing and thatit's not something that's seen
just as marketing but it'sactually delivering the message
in the right way.
Stephanie McLarty (25:48):
That makes so much sense as we close out this
conversation.
I know we've talked about somuch and there's so many nuggets
in there.
What would be one piece ofadvice that you would leave our
audience and listeners with inthis whole area of building
repairable phone and really evenbigger than that?
Petri Hayrynen (26:11):
Yeah.
So I think the key part abouteverything is you've got to have
a purpose.
Like purpose driven companiesthese days they do the best work
.
I feel and I know in ourindustry there are lots of them,
at least to some extent.
But the purpose helps in somany things because there's
always cost involved.
You know, it was so much easierto justify investment, so much
(26:31):
easier to justify risk takingwhen you have that part.
But then it's also like it playsinto some things which aren't
free, like changing the thewhole kind of structure of your
company.
For hmd, for example, we'relike three times in a row like
triple well, platinum, echo,that is score, which is means
that we are like actuallyleading the industry when it
comes to the sustainability as acompany.
(26:53):
But then that means thatbecause of all of the values
that we have inside the company,we can actually start talking
about the things and making thedecisions that then link to that
.
And the last part is, once youhave that value, you're making
those decisions.
Remember that you're still abusiness.
If you are a business, it's nota charity.
It is like you do have to makesure that you stay in business
(27:13):
and you generate enough profitto do that, because the only way
off, if you want to change theworld, you've got to be in
business and you've got to makesure that you can innovate.
If you don't generate value,that means that you're going to
die or then you're not able toinnovate.
So those two things I know.
Here it's.
You know we are among thepeople who want to change the
world and many times we sort offorget the fact that you know we
(27:42):
are businesses and we need tomake sure that the only way to
stay alive and do things is togenerate more money.
Stephanie McLarty (27:45):
That reminds me Quantum has three core
stakeholders planet team andcustomers and that really helps
to keep the important issuesreally our purpose front and
center.
One other thing I really gotfrom this conversation was the
importance of keeping yourtarget customer front and center
and designing for them, butalso reaching them in innovative
(28:07):
ways through partnerships, andI think that's a lesson that we
all can really take from it.
Petri Hayrynen (28:13):
Yeah, and it's also driven by the value.
So if customer is part of thevalue that you have in the
company and you're buildingstuff for them, then it's going
to be sort of easy to makedecisions on that as well.
Stephanie McLarty (28:24):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for beinghere and sharing this wisdom,
and I'm sure everyone got theirown nugget from this
conversation, but I reallyappreciate it.
Petri Hayrynen (28:33):
Thank you so much.
Glad to be here.
Stephanie McLarty (28:38):
And remember, if you're looking for a
Canadian partner to help yourepair, reuse and recycle your
electronics, even smartphones,we'd love to chat.
Head on over toquantumlifecyclecom and contact
us.
This is a Quantum Lifecyclepodcast and the producer is
Sandra Turetti.
Thank you for being a circularpicture champion in your company
and logging off.
How do you make a smartphone that is
sustainable, repairable and coolat the same time?
Welcome to the Circular Future,your access to thought leaders
and innovations to help you be abusiness sustainability
champion, even if it's not yourcore job.
I'm your host, StephanieMcLarty, Head of Sustainability
(00:24):
at Quantum Lifecycle Partners.
There are a lot of factors thatgo into smartphone design.
Hmd, or Human Mobile Devices,is Europe's largest smartphone
manufacturer that is winningawards for its fresh take on
making phones durable,repairable and fun, and they've
(00:45):
sold over 400 million phonesalong the way since 2016.
With me to unpack how they do.
It is Petri Harunen, GlobalHead of Product Marketing for
HMD.
Petri has been an integral partin shaping how HMD challenges
the status quo in theultra-competitive mobile tech
market.
(01:05):
He is a big advocate ofdesigning for repairability and
building more responsibleproduct roadmaps, and has almost
20 years of experience in theindustry with brands like Apple
and Nokia.
And because we're recordingthis live in front of an
audience at the eSummit, let'sget started so fun.
(01:29):
Welcome to the podcast, Petri.
Petri Hayrynen (01:30):
Thank you, thank you.
Stephanie McLarty (01:32):
Have we done anything like this before?
Petri Hayrynen (01:34):
I have to say no , this is the first time.
Stephanie McLarty (01:36):
Well, awesome , I'm so thankful that you're
here and that you're brave to dothis in front of a live
audience, and I know we're goingto have a great conversation.
We're going to talk about howyou make great sustainable
phones.
We'll get into some big whyquestions on why you do things
differently than others.
We'll talk about a few how-toquestions and then finish off
(01:57):
with a piece of advice.
But first let's start as wealways do and let's get a peek
into your world at HMD and youknow, for some of us, we may not
be so aware of HMD.
What would be?
Three things that we may notnecessarily know about HMD?
Petri Hayrynen (02:16):
That's a good question.
I think you stole a few of thethings to say, like in the intro
, so thanks for that.
Maybe I'll start with one thingwhich, to me, is really, really
cool.
So Al Roker from USA, from theToday Show and NBC, has actually
used one of our devices on Ithink it was like 8 in the
morning so the HMD Barbie phone,which is one of our latest ones
(02:37):
, so that's something that's areally fun fact.
On the partnership side, I thinkit's worth to mention that
we've actually been quite busy.
We've been doing things withbig brands like well, I
mentioned Barbie alreadyObviously, nokia phones.
We've been making those for along time.
There's also a phone that wedid with Heineken called the
Boring Phone, which is not asboring as it sounds.
(02:58):
And then lately we justactually worked with Sony on the
latest Venom film, so VenomLast Dance.
We did some cool stuff for that, and that's then going to be on
Friday in the movie theater.
So go buy tickets, somethingthat I should say.
And the last thing is, weactually got a Time Best
Invention Award for 2023 for ourfirst repairable device, which
(03:20):
is really, really cool as well.
Stephanie McLarty (03:22):
Yeah, that is amazing and we'll talk about
that.
First, I wanted to ask youabout something that's on your
website.
I love the language that youuse.
It hits home for me, it's verydirect, and one of the things
you say is you can't spellsustainability without the
letter R, which maybe isn't sodirect, so please explain what
(03:47):
that actually means.
Petri Hayrynen (03:48):
Yeah, it's been a lot of fun in copywriting
Brian, our copywriter.
He's probably working in hisdream job right now because of
the way that we've sort of setup our brand.
It's quite a humorous way oftalking about serious stuff.
So, obviously, three R's, Imean it's the repair, reuse and
recycle, but that's one of theparts of sustainability and of
(04:10):
course it goes way beyond thatas well.
But that's just a littlewordplay that we have on the
site.
Stephanie McLarty (04:16):
So very similar to quantum.
We follow that as well, andit's all part of the waste
hierarchy when you really thinkabout it.
Okay, so you just mentionedabout your time best inventions
list acknowledgement for 2023.
You've also received fromiFixit a 9 out of 10 score,
which is incredible inperspective.
(04:38):
How do you start making a phonethat is, you know, repairable?
How do you approach makinghuman mobile device?
Petri Hayrynen (04:51):
That's a good question.
Yes, we have two phones nowwith our latest repairability,
which we call Gen 2repairability, where I mean you
were taking one apart yesterdayit's very possible to do even if
you've never done it before.
So we have two phones that havethat.
They both got the nine out of10 score.
One of them was this denimphone as well.
So I mean human mobile devices.
It's essentially everythinglinks back to some human needs
(05:14):
and, and when we kind of go ondesigning devices like this, we
need to make them so that peopleactually want to use them as
well.
And that then has somelimitations when it comes to the
design.
But we ask a lot of questionsfrom the customers, from our
target audience, what they wantto be doing, and every now and
then they maybe don't knowexactly what they want on a
(05:35):
device.
Like if you ask a person, doyou want to repair a broken
screen on your phone?
Most likely the answer is likeI would, but I probably don't
know how to.
So then it's about trying tokind of build it in the right
way that they are able to do it,and it comes with a lot of
research, like trying to figureout what the best ways of
getting into that are.
(05:55):
But our approach is very muchabout sort of looking at the
basic way of putting phonestogether and then sort of
starting to strip that down alittle bit to the bare bones and
thinking of the way that weshould be doing things.
And then we go, obviously, andwork with the, the odm side our
manufacturers, our engineers,work with them a lot to build
new types of solutions or newways of approaching existing
(06:19):
solutions, and then ending upwith the device that still has
the appeal that people actuallywant to buy it, rather than it
being something that's boxy andlooks just like another
repairable phone because theyhave been there before those
things as well.
Stephanie McLarty (06:32):
Yeah, I can imagine that if repairability is
top of the list for what youdesign for, it would look very
different than if you'redesigning first and foremost for
something that people want touse and, you know, to fit in
their pocket and lightweight andall of that.
So balancing what people thinkthey want versus what they
(06:54):
actually want, it could be animportant distinction.
Who is your target marketreally?
What do they look like?
Petri Hayrynen (07:01):
So we actually have a target person that we
think about every time, who wedesign devices.
We call her Emily.
I think there was even an Emilyin the room here it wasn't you,
maybe it is now but we look atmuch of like a younger audience.
So we do think about Gen Zersthese days and people who use
their devices a lot and theysort of live by the devices.
But also we try to build phonesthat are just good for people.
(07:25):
So we look at what emily needsin terms of the device.
So of course, there needs to beall of the basic things like
great cameras and good displaysand you be, you need to be able
to use it as a daily driver.
But at the same time liketrying to balance that out with
the sustainability bits, likethe repairability you know,
using because of materials,making sure that the devices
(07:46):
last longer, that they'redurable enough, but also then
looking at different things likehow do you balance your digital
life and make sure that you'renot using your phone too much,
because that's something thatpeople also recognize is an
issue these days, especiallywhen you go into that like Gen Z
space.
So it's a lot of things really,but we do have like a very
certain type of a customerprofile that we work towards,
(08:08):
and I think that's also ifyou've seen any of the marketing
assets.
Any ways that we talk about it,it's sort of directed directly
to those type of people, andthen we sort of noticed that
that also then plays pretty wellfor the rest of the people who
are excited about these types ofsolutions.
Stephanie McLarty (08:26):
Well, I'm probably a target market because
all that language really spoketo me.
Now, yesterday, as youmentioned, I participated in the
repair off in which there were12 of us that had to deconstruct
and remove the screen and thebattery from the skyline.
Is that correct, the rightmodel?
Petri Hayrynen (08:47):
Yeah.
Stephanie McLarty (08:47):
Yeah, and for me I had never repaired
anything electronic.
This was the first time.
I didn't realize it was goingto be even a new box, and so I
just thought, well, I mean,we'll follow the instructions
through, I fix it.
And I have to admit I didpretty good.
(09:09):
I mean, I didn't win thecompetition at all, but I was
actually proud in how much Icould actually do on my own and
it really surprised me.
So how have you made yourphones repairable in a way that
others haven't?
How have you scored a nine outof 10 for my fix it?
Petri Hayrynen (09:30):
Yeah, so I mean a couple of things.
I mean thank you for taking apart yesterday.
I think it was really good andI'm happy because everybody else
was very much a professionalwho was there.
I think that also showed off afew bits of you know insights as
well.
Like you were probably therewhen we were looking.
It was looking at the full-oniFixit guide on how to take it
apart and there weren't too manythings that you were sort of
(09:54):
doing extra on the device.
There weren't too many thingsthat you were sort of doing
extra on the device.
I saw there were people maybegoing a little bit too rough on
the opening mechanism of it,because there's a really cool
cam on like popping the backcover off.
We're in a sustainabilitysummit here and it probably was
a little bit counterintuitive tohave like fresh phones that are
unpacked and then teared down.
But yeah, maybe in retrospectwe we need to get something, as
(10:16):
we wanted to have like a levelplaying field that they haven't
been touched before we wouldhave otherwise.
We were looking at device thathad been opened already, but
then it's not the same thinganymore.
So yeah, back to the question.
We sort of try to make it asfoolproof as possible, and
that's when you read theinstructions.
So if you actually look at theway off of how do you open the
(10:36):
device and which screws do youneed to remove in order to get
into the display, then you areable to do that quite easily
those by yourself.
So what we want to go after isfor people, when they break
their own screen, they don'thave to live to learn to live
(10:58):
with that broken screen.
They actually take it in theirown hands and fix it.
It costs about 100 bucks toorder that screen, for example,
which isn't that steep.
So then you go and look at theinstructions.
You get all the tools and theparts able to put it together,
like take it apart, swap thedisplay, put it back together.
You get that sensation of justyou know, gratuity for being
able to do something on your ownthat fixes your phone and sort
(11:23):
of like, makes you one of the Ithink it was like 33% of people
who just don't learn to livewith that broken screen,
according to our studies.
So I think the key part isreally to make it foolproof and
make it something that anybodycan do, rather than trying to
sort of make it something thatrequires huge tools or some
specialty things.
So here I mean, ours to go towas that you need the opening
(11:45):
pick and you need a screwdriver,and that should be enough to do
the process.
And of course, then it's likelooking at how everything is in
place.
It's a bit more modular thanmaybe regular devices are, but
still the main challenge isobviously keeping it slim and
something that people want toput in their pocket, because all
of these things are alwaystrade-offs.
Stephanie McLarty (12:05):
Yeah, they're always trade-offs.
You're essentially designingfor Emily, not like my husband
or mobile device team at Quantum.
You're designing for the enduser that may not have a lot of
experience repairing phones.
Petri Hayrynen (12:20):
Yeah, exactly, and we did a lot of studies on
this.
I'm sure people love me becauseI pick on people who've never
done this before.
Usually, if I'm in an eventsomewhere, I pick somebody who's
sort of like fitting the bill,making sure that I ask them,
like have you ever repaired thephone?
Give them a screwdriver and aguitar pick and the phone and
like here's instructions.
Or then I guide them directlyand telling them what to do and
(12:42):
look at them when they're sortof like afraid of taking the
product, putting it backtogether and sort of seeing them
being able to do that.
So, yeah, it's quite a big, bigsort of a feat that we're able
to do this.
Stephanie McLarty (12:54):
HMD has really done things in a
different way than othercompanies.
One of the things that reallystruck me you have a Better
Phone Project, which is thefirst phone that was co-created
by parents to protect mentalwell-being for young people.
Why would you do that?
Petri Hayrynen (13:12):
Yeah, so it hasn't been created yet.
We've had two sessions.
We're working with parentaladvocacy groups, end users, so
we've actually had people whoare I think the youngest ones
have been like 13 participatingin these live webinars that we
do.
I think we have two more left.
We have professionals fromuniversities, from different
(13:34):
types of medical institutionsand those sort of things,
psychologists who just they'rethe smartest people in the world
on what are the impacts ofdigital overload and especially
on developing people.
So when talking about kids andit's all based on the fact that
you know the solutions that areout there right now they aren't
really suitable for giving yourkid a phone, for example.
(13:57):
It doesn't have everythingincluded, so it's either too
limited and that.
What then makes it so theparents are actually like half
of the people who've actuallygiven devices out to their kids
regret or I think it was evenmore than that.
It was like three out of fourparents who've given their kid a
smartphone actually regret that.
50% of people.
(14:21):
They see that their personality, if their children, are
actually changing when they'reusing their device, so they get
hooked on it very quickly.
Smartphones are kind of likedrugs for a lot of people.
When you go into social media.
You know that's where where allof the the overload happens.
It all comes from this realneed to have a solution.
That is the better phone andtoday, like parents have
actually, they needed to sort ofcreate their own solutions
because there isn't anythingthat is good enough.
(14:42):
And of course, there aredifferent types of needs for
different types of people anddepending on the ages of the
people, it's not only kids, it'salso other people who recognize
the fact that they need to cutdown on screen time or cut down
on social media usage and theyneed some tools.
So Better Phone Project is verymuch about just building a
phone that sort of allows you tobalance the digital life and
(15:03):
gives you those right toolsthere.
Stephanie McLarty (15:06):
Wow, I've read that you're actually
encouraging people to use theirphone less, like even adults,
for all of us to use their phoneless.
How do you do that?
Petri Hayrynen (15:16):
Yeah.
So of course I mean we are sortof part of the problem because
we built the phones that you gethooked on.
But we also recognize there'stons of good in smartphones,
like you can't really livewithout them these days.
Everything happens there.
You're banking, you're, youknow payments, you're travel.
There's so many things that areconnected to it.
It's, it's essentially the onetool that you can't live without
.
That's where repairably comesin as well, because you don't
(15:38):
want to be without it.
But at the same time, you knowwe do recognize the fact that
people these days got cuttingback on it.
So it's about we especiallylike again, look at the emily
there, the 16 to 24 year oldaudience who who been sort of
growing up with smartphones fromthe, the get-go, so they've
actually been immersed into that.
I remember when I joinedfacebook at some point, it was
(16:00):
like I had to get an invitation,or gmail, I had to get an
invitation to it.
Now you grow up with it.
It's the first thing that youget when you have that device.
So so they've grown up with andthey've sort of realized that
it's just it's kind of runningtheir lives and dictating way
too much what they're doing.
So it's about like eight out of10 people, according to our
studies, have been looking atdifferent ways of cutting back
on screen time, and about 40%they're actually they're
(16:23):
recognizing the fact thatthey're spending too much time
on social media.
We've already started creatingtools for it.
Of course we've had our featurephones, which are quite big, so
the Nokia 3210s and the Barbiephone.
Now it been super popular, soldout pretty much everywhere.
People look at those devices assort of shifting over from their
their smartphone for theweekend.
They just take something that'slike a dumb phone and you don't
(16:45):
want to.
You know you don't have to beimmersed into anything.
They can actually make phonecalls, which is something that
younger kids don't don't dothese days anymore.
Nobody has their theirringtones on anymore.
But then it's also about theway that you use your smartphone
.
So we build on the Skyline.
We have a detox mode which youflick a switch and it actually
switches off all of your socialmedia or the apps that you want.
(17:05):
It can also be used for workand those sort of things, so you
can then decide how long youwant to do these like burst
detox, burst detox.
So we're looking at differentsolutions of like.
How do you allow people to gaincontrol over their digital
balance in terms of using theirdevices?
Stephanie McLarty (17:21):
That's cool.
I love the idea of detox modeand actually having that as a
feature.
Okay, let's move into our howto section, where I ask you how
to questions and you know theoriginal intention was for this
to be rapid fire in the podcast,but it was never rapid fire, so
you can answer them as short oras long as you like.
Okay, first one as you'vecreated these great, sustainable
(17:45):
, repairable phones, how tostructure your teams to do so?
I mean, who is on your teaminside your organization and who
leads it?
Petri Hayrynen (17:55):
So that is a really quick question and I
think that's something thatmaybe changes per project quite
a lot.
So we do build in tons ofcustomer insights into it.
So marketing is always going tobe a big part of it, and we
sort of start looking at theneeds of the target customer,
start then building devicesaccording to those needs, but it
depends on a phone.
Of course there's some thingsthat just need to exist
(18:16):
according to those needs, but itdepends on a phone.
Of course there's some thingsthat just need to exist.
I think the overall it's not somuch about who's in the team,
it's about everybody's committedto the end goal and understands
what the value is that we needto hit with that device and what
sort of the key message is onthat phone.
And that way everybody can pullon the same rope and it doesn't
become like a question of okay,this now hits a certain step in
(18:38):
the leadership and it's like itgets killed because they're not
sort of singing the same tune aseveryone else is.
So I think like we have a veryflat organization and there are
tons of people who are involvedin it and, as with the better
phone you know, it even comesfrom the source.
It actually comes from theusers.
We are building a phonetogether with you know people,
which is something that nobody'sever done before in this
(18:59):
industry, so you always sort ofdictate what a user should be
doing with their device.
I know that's not a rapid fireanswer, but it's.
It's all about the fact thatyou're aligned and it doesn't
really matter who's part of itat that point.
But but of course, like youneed to tick the boxes so that
you can make things happen.
Stephanie McLarty (19:15):
Yeah, and so, speaking of alignment, next
question how to engage yoursupply chain.
So you're working in alignment,because I know you've talked
about before the importance ofyour supply chain being a part
of the whole repairabilitysolution.
Yeah, yeah.
Petri Hayrynen (19:31):
So I think, like supply chain, it's especially
when we look at themanufacturing side of things and
the phone business hasn't beenexactly even though we look at,
we talk about.
I think that's also why youstart looking at the whole
industry and all the devicesthat are out there.
It's more of this like graymass, as I like to call it, and
(20:03):
we sort of see ourselves as abit of a disruptor in that.
So we want to do things a bitdifferently.
I think that the biggest partfor us is helping the supply
chain.
So of course, you need to makesure from the sustainability
side that everybody's playingball.
But on top of that, you sort ofhave to give them the right
tools, because they worry aboutquality.
They worry about, like, makingsure that they can deliver on
(20:27):
the promise of we're going tomake you a device and all the
components are going to fit intoit.
So sometimes and this is whathappens pretty much every time
is that when we go and tell oursupply chain we want to do this,
this is our idea, they're like,no, that can't be done.
That means that we have toguide them into doing it.
So it's a lot of like takingthe engineering into your own
hands and sort of helping themnavigate.
(20:47):
And obviously by doing that,because the the industry is so
sort of interconnected, I thinkwe're also helping other
manufacturers then and the wholeindustry sort of moving forward
.
So yeah, it's again a longanswer to a rapid fire question,
but hopefully that covers it.
Stephanie McLarty (21:03):
Hey, don't worry about the rapid fire
anymore.
But last question, you'vespoken about some of the
partnerships you have.
Fc Barcelona was one we haven'ttouched on, but Sony
Entertainment, the Venom movies,mattel, heineken, and this
conference is really all aboutfostering cooperation to move
(21:24):
our goals forward, to advanceelectronic sustainability.
So how to get the most out ofyour partnerships?
Petri Hayrynen (21:32):
of your partnerships.
Yeah, I think you know if wewere to just and I'm glad you
mentioned FC Barcelona, I'mpretty much killing myself
because I forgot it.
It's probably the biggest oneof the all and, like how we've
approached the whole thing isabout making sure that we well,
whatever we do in terms ofpartnerships, we really bring
the heart out of it.
So we did the Barbie phone withMattel and it was it's like
(21:53):
full on Barbie.
It's for Barbie fans.
We were thinking about, likewhat does a Barbie's phone look
like?
What does need to be includedin the pack?
So it's like a full on unboxingexperience and really bringing
it to life like from the get go.
When you actually get the boxinto using the device, there's
like a missed call from Ken andyou know there are all these
different types of charms insidethe box.
It's just like if you've neverseen it, like go and go and
(22:15):
check online.
It's just great, great, greatstuff.
And it doesn't matter like ifyou're a female or a male or
whatever you know, or what ageyou are.
You're going to be excitedabout the phone at some level.
And the Barcelona one is also.
Like you know, we are lookingat right now the best way of
engaging the whole community,like the fans and the players,
and like really buildingsomething that has the essence
(22:36):
of FC Barcelona at the heart,because it is such a big
organization and so, like youknow, rooted to Catalonia, and
like it's one of the biggestsports teams in the world, so
there's a huge following to it.
So I think that's a long sort ofsegue into what I was trying to
say is that if we just go intobuilding repairable devices and
we would just go by the factthat, hey, this is a phone that
(22:56):
you can drop the screen on, it'snever going to create any type
of a connection, so it's notgoing to make a dent in the
industry.
So that's why the partnershipsare super important for us is
building the brand, building thehuman mobile devices, actually
making it sort of, in a non sortof annoying way, relatable to a
lot of people, and that way wecan then push the message.
So the message of repairability, sustainability, you know,
(23:18):
trying to create things thatwe're trying to do in this
industry.
We have to find a softer way ofdoing that, because if you go
in and say that, hey, this iswhat you need to be doing
because the world is on fire,it's probably not going to be
the best way of doing it.
People realize that, like,especially if you go to the
younger audience, it's aboutsort of showing them what we're
doing stuff and making it intolike speaking the right language
(23:39):
, making it into relatable thingfor them.
And that's where the whole kindof partner chain you got to
partner up with people who arethe right type, who have the
same type of of an agenda.
So that's we're super carefulabout, like the partners that we
work with and everybody needsto have the same heart.
So I think that's that'sprobably the key like choose
your partners right and makesure that, uh, they're
(24:00):
everybody's delivering on theirstrengths and trying to make it
more relatable.
Stephanie McLarty (24:05):
Yeah, and on that point of relatability, I
feel like for us to trulyachieve electronic
sustainability, we need to getbetter at communicating,
communicating it, communicatingthe advantages, and so that is
so.
On point, I get it, but thenagain, maybe I'm I'm an Emily
and you're reaching the Emily'sin this.
Petri Hayrynen (24:26):
Yeah, so I mean, well, as an example for
repairability, we actuallycreated an ASMR video on repair
and that's on YouTube.
I think it's even here.
There's just the clickingnoises and everything that you
have when you're, you know,taking the phone apart.
I was actually doing that, soI'm kind of like a famous in
that that says but then we alsolooked at, you know, we did
training videos that we'reactually giving out to the
(24:47):
public, which are normallyinternal, so we just make sure
the sort of production value ishigh enough on that.
It is very much about thecommunication and speaking the
right language and not being,you know, obnoxious, about we're
doing the right thing in theworld and like trying to just
shine because of something and,of course, like I think the one
thing is, um, we're not supposedto swear anything, so I'm not
(25:09):
going to do that.
But you know, you have to havethe people that we speak to
these days, especially if you gointo the younger audience.
They've got the best bs radarin the world.
So you have to have the peoplethat we speak to these days,
especially if you go into theyounger audience.
They've got the best BS radarin the world, so you have to
have your house in order, you'vegot to make sure that you're
sort of delivering on all of thebits and pieces.
When you look at your supplychain, you know you look at the
way that you handle yourbusiness and remember the fact
that you're always somebodyscope three at the same time,
(25:31):
like even if you talk to thepartners where you're trying to
sell to.
So just it like comes from manydifferent pieces, that it
becomes a sincere thing and thatit's not something that's seen
just as marketing but it'sactually delivering the message
in the right way.
Stephanie McLarty (25:48):
That makes so much sense as we close out this
conversation.
I know we've talked about somuch and there's so many nuggets
in there.
What would be one piece ofadvice that you would leave our
audience and listeners with inthis whole area of building
repairable phone and really evenbigger than that?
Petri Hayrynen (26:11):
Yeah.
So I think the key part abouteverything is you've got to have
a purpose.
Like purpose driven companiesthese days they do the best work
.
I feel and I know in ourindustry there are lots of them,
at least to some extent.
But the purpose helps in somany things because there's
always cost involved.
You know, it was so much easierto justify investment, so much
(26:31):
easier to justify risk takingwhen you have that part.
But then it's also like it playsinto some things which aren't
free, like changing the thewhole kind of structure of your
company.
For hmd, for example, we'relike three times in a row like
triple well, platinum, echo,that is score, which is means
that we are like actuallyleading the industry when it
comes to the sustainability as acompany.
(26:53):
But then that means thatbecause of all of the values
that we have inside the company,we can actually start talking
about the things and making thedecisions that then link to that
.
And the last part is, once youhave that value, you're making
those decisions.
Remember that you're still abusiness.
If you are a business, it's nota charity.
It is like you do have to makesure that you stay in business
(27:13):
and you generate enough profitto do that, because the only way
off, if you want to change theworld, you've got to be in
business and you've got to makesure that you can innovate.
If you don't generate value,that means that you're going to
die or then you're not able toinnovate.
So those two things I know.
Here it's.
You know we are among thepeople who want to change the
world and many times we sort offorget the fact that you know we
(27:42):
are businesses and we need tomake sure that the only way to
stay alive and do things is togenerate more money.
Stephanie McLarty (27:45):
That reminds me Quantum has three core
stakeholders planet team andcustomers and that really helps
to keep the important issuesreally our purpose front and
center.
One other thing I really gotfrom this conversation was the
importance of keeping yourtarget customer front and center
and designing for them, butalso reaching them in innovative
(28:07):
ways through partnerships, andI think that's a lesson that we
all can really take from it.
Petri Hayrynen (28:13):
Yeah, and it's also driven by the value.
So if customer is part of thevalue that you have in the
company and you're buildingstuff for them, then it's going
to be sort of easy to makedecisions on that as well.
Stephanie McLarty (28:24):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for beinghere and sharing this wisdom,
and I'm sure everyone got theirown nugget from this
conversation, but I reallyappreciate it.
Petri Hayrynen (28:33):
Thank you so much.
Glad to be here.
Stephanie McLarty (28:38):
And remember, if you're looking for a
Canadian partner to help yourepair, reuse and recycle your
electronics, even smartphones,we'd love to chat.
Head on over toquantumlifecyclecom and contact
us.
This is a Quantum Lifecyclepodcast and the producer is
Sandra Turetti.
Thank you for being a circularpicture champion in your company
and logging off.
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