November 21, 2024 • 23 mins
In this episode, Stephanie McLarty and Steven Napoli discuss the critical importance of responsible e-waste management and recycling. They explore the environmental and health risks associated with improper disposal of electronics, the role of certifications in ensuring safe and sustainable recycling practices, and the challenges faced in increasing awareness and participation in e-waste recycling. Steve shares insights on Terra's initiatives, the significance of certified recyclers, and how businesses can effectively manage their e-waste. The conversation emphasizes the need for education, awareness, and the responsibility of individuals and organizations to recycle electronics properly.
Takeaways
- Certification ensures environmental health and safety.
- Improper e-waste disposal poses significant health risks.
- Only 22% of electronics are formally recycled.
- Data security is a major concern in e-waste management.
- Education is crucial for increasing recycling rates.
- Companies face fines for improper e-waste handling.
- Certification matters for long-term business sustainability.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Most people know it's not a good idea to throw
electronics in the garbage.
So where should e-waste go andwhy?
Welcome to the Circular Future,your access to thought leaders
and innovations.
To help you be a businesssustainability champion, even if
it's not your core job.
I'm your host.
Stephanie McLarty, head ofSustainability at Quantum
(00:23):
Lifecycle Partners.
Stephanie McLarty, head ofSustainability at Quantum
Lifecycle Partners.
In episode 13, we covered ashort and sweet episode of why
certifications matter.
Today we're diving deeper tounderstand the reasons to make
sure your electronic waste goesto the right place and where
e-waste should actually go.
With me is Steve Napoli,president and CEO of Terra, the
(00:47):
Electronics Reuse and RecyclingAlliance.
Under his leadership, terra hasexpanded to become the largest
network of certified e-wasterecyclers and IT asset
disposition, or ITAD, providersin the world, with over 120
facilities across 12 countries.
Welcome to the podcast, steve.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, thank you, Stephanie.
It's a real pleasure not onlyto be on this, but also to have
you all as members.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Well, steve, we are excited to be members of TERRA,
and many people know about TERRA.
Some people may not be, so thefirst question I have for you is
, really, what would be threethings that the world should
know about Terra?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Well, first of all, that Terra is an acronym.
It stands for the ElectronicsReuse and Recycling Alliance.
We are a network exclusivelyavailable to those that have
earned either an e-steward or anR2 certification, like Quantum.
So that's very important thateverybody in our network you can
be assured, when you work withTerra, that you're working with
(01:49):
somebody that's certified and,as you mentioned, we have 120
facilities across 12 countries,so we are the largest network of
certified recyclers anywhere.
I think the second thing thatpeople will need to know is that
the reason that we were createdwas this whole idea that
certification matters, thatcompanies like Quantum that have
gone through these rigorousinspections and are audited on
(02:09):
an ongoing basis are really theonly ones that are trustworthy
in this space to be able tomanage your IT assets, whether
they're being remarketed becausethere's still good life and
value in reusing them, or ifthey're at end of life and they
need to be sustainably recycledin a responsible way.
That also makes sure that we'renot doing anything to
negatively impact either theenvironment or employee health.
(02:31):
So that's the second thing, andthe third thing to know is that
one of the ways that we getthat out into the marketplace is
we have a program that we calldone with it or done with IT,
kind of depending if it's abusiness to business or a
business to consumer audience.
And there we have a lot ofdifferent programs where we're
doing things like digitalinclusion.
We're doing onsite events.
(02:53):
We did recycling programs withcompanies like Walmart doing
Christmas light recycling in ahundred plus stores here in the
United States last Christmas.
But we also have a mail-incomponent.
So all over the United Statesand Canada if you want to mail
in up to 150 pounds of recyclingyou can use this program.
And we've also then kind ofextended it, so the idea that
(03:15):
it's a box program to mailingmaterial in.
We've allowed our members tokind of use our technology and
platform to do that forthemselves if they don't offer a
box program.
And then we've done someadditional things with some
companies and some organizationswhere we just launched in the
last quarter a program calledDevices for Autism, because
(03:36):
there are a lot of people inthis space that employ people
that are on the spectrum.
They make very good employees.
When you teach them how todisassemble a computer or laptop
, they stay on task very well.
So they make excellentemployees and ITAD providers.
So we're working with anonprofit organization that
hires folks on the spectrum,that is R2, certified that we're
(03:58):
bringing in laptops and tabletsthat people can mail in at no
charge and those devices arebeing refurbished and reused and
helping to provide employmentopportunities for people in the
spectrum.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
That sounds like an amazing program and doing so
much good.
And I love how you have thismail-in program, because people
really struggle with what do Ido with my e-waste?
And it's so much more complexthese days because, sure, we
have all the laptops and thecomputers, the electronics that
we think of, but you mentionedChristmas lights and that has a
(04:34):
plug.
At Quantum we say we deal withanything with a battery or a
plug.
There's so many things thatfall within that spectrum, so
that's great that you'reoffering that.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
And there are so many places that are live, that live
in recycling deserts right, Imean cities were pretty good.
Here in the United States we'vegot places like Staples and
Best Buy that take material, butif you're out in the country,
you know you have very limitedoptions.
So having a mail-in programthat's effective and efficient
is a really good way to, youknow, get material where it
needs to go.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
That's a really great point that we may not realize
if we live within a city andhave access to local programs
and options.
So, steve, I think people have,for the most part, a general
understanding that electronicsshouldn't go anywhere into waste
, into the garbage, intolandfill.
But why exactly is that?
(05:26):
What are the environmental andhealth risks associated with
electronic waste?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, they're significant.
And when you think aboutelectronics it really kind of
breaks down into two categories.
You have metals and then youhave plastics.
And the metals you've gotthings like lead and mercury and
arsenic and cadmium, all thoseheavy metals you know.
If leached out into theenvironment of the, through the,
into the you know water supply,they eventually get into our
(05:54):
food, they eventually get intoour animals and then we eat them
.
And you know, depending on the,you know the material that has
very negative impacts,especially for children, on
brain development, on on lungs,where you see children getting
asthma, kidney function,neurological functions, sexual
development problems.
With some of these materials,not so much prevalent here,
(06:14):
maybe in the West, but in theareas that the West and places
like Europe are dumping theire-waste on populations that
can't handle it.
It's becoming a real problembased on populations that can't
handle it.
It's becoming a real problem.
One of the worst examples ofthat is the city of Abulagashi
in Ghana, where it's so pollutedthat just to eat a chicken egg
it has over 200 times the amountof mercury that's allowable in
(06:38):
food.
I mean it's very dangerous forthese children that are in these
areas.
So there's that.
And then on the plastic side.
You know those brominated flameretardants, things that you
know keep our electronics fromcatching fire when they get hot.
You know those have.
You know same thing very badfor our, you know, for young
children especially, but verybad for all of us in terms of
you know our neurologicalfunctions as well, as you know
(07:03):
our, our, as our kidneys and ourliver and things like that.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
So I know Tara is a big proponent of certifications
and using certified recyclersand, as you mentioned off the
top and for everyone, we are amember of Tara and we're also at
Quantum, a very proud R2certified recycler.
So, in your words, steve, whydoes certification matter in
(07:28):
this space?
It's protection.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Not only are you protecting your employees,
because a component of thesecertifications is environmental,
health and safety.
That's paramount.
If you're operating a business,you have to make sure you're
taking care of your people.
Secondly, it's about thematerial itself.
So when you're bringing inmaterial in, you're not experts
in everything, so you're goingto be downstreaming certain
elements to other folks, othercompanies that process the
(07:54):
different material than you alldo.
You want to have confidencethat the people that are
handling that are doing the sameprotecting their employees,
protecting the environment withthe way that they're reusing,
recycling and capturing thismaterial.
So that's very critical.
And then the third element ofthat protection piece is related
to data security.
You know there is information.
(08:17):
Whether you're a healthcaresystems or a bank or whomever
you may be, as a customer of oneof these R2 partners, they're
destroying your data.
That's critical.
So you know there are millionsof dollars being lost because
data is escaping, and one of thereasons or one of the ways
they're escaping is throughneglect and the way people are
handling their e-waste.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
That is a huge risk for any company and even us as
individuals as well.
So, steve, I know that you callout specifically two
certifications.
One is the R2 certificationthrough Sari, the other is
eStewards.
So why these two certifications?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Well, it's funny that both of them were kind of born
of the same idea, which, 15, 20years ago, the industry came
together to decide that wereally need to either
self-regulate or thegovernment's going to do it for
us.
So let's come up with a systemof managing the way we handle
our employee safety, the way wehandle our downstreaming and
materials, to make sure thatwe're doing this on the up and
up.
And these certificationsrequire that they're audited.
(09:17):
Your company is audited.
Make sure that you're followingthese best practices, and on an
ongoing basis, those auditscontinue.
So it's not just what you getcertified and forget about it.
You get certified and you'reconstantly inspected.
So, for the companies andindividuals that use the
services you all provide,certification matters.
Certification really mattersbecause without it there is no
(09:37):
guarantee, and that's what youguys are providing is that
guarantee of sustainability,that guarantee of data security,
and that's what companies andindividuals need as it relates
to eWay.
So, with these twocertifications they're the ones
here really in North Americathat are prominent we are
looking at a third certification, potentially as we expand,
because we are in 12 countriesand the European Union has their
(09:59):
own certification standardcalled WeLABEX W-E-E-E-L-A-B-E-X
, which we're considering adding, but that's a future
development for us.
We're really kind of stillfocused on building the North
American market and thenexpanding beyond.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
It makes so much sense that electronics should go
to a certified, so few ofelectronics actually do so.
Last week I was preparing for apresentation at one of our
major clients and education forCircular Economy Month and I
(10:35):
came across a stat that stillonly about 22% of electronics
are collected formally forelectronics recycling like for
formal certified electronicsrecycling.
There's still a huge portion ofelectronics that do not get
recycled responsibly.
Now, presumably some of thatmight be the electronic
(10:58):
hibernation, where people arestoring some of their devices
and not doing anything with it,but a large chunk probably does
go to uncertified recyclers.
Do you have a sense of whatthat breadth might be?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I think it's very difficult.
Some of the numbers that you dosee like that 22%.
The methodologies that I'veseen on how they're collecting
this information worry me alittle bit that they're not
necessarily capturing what theentire scope of the problem may
be.
That may be a small estimate.
The size of the problem mightbe a lot bigger than we even
know.
But I do know.
(11:32):
As it relates to certifiedrecycling, it's just a limited
marketplace of people that areoffering these services, so
material kind of goes to theclosest location.
Unfortunately that's.
One of the reasons we try tohave such a big footprint is to
be able to collect as muchmaterial and divert it to
certified recyclers as possible.
But here in the United States,for instance, only 25 states
(11:54):
have e-waste laws at all.
So if you're in my home stateof Tennessee, there's nothing to
say.
You can't take that materialand just throw it in the trash.
There's nothing that's going toprohibit you from doing that.
That's going to prohibit youfrom doing that.
So educating the marketplace asto why it's important, the
value of using a certifiedrecycler in terms of remarketing
dollars, potentially health andsafety and bottom line security
(12:17):
of your data is really criticalto be able to expand the number
of users of these services.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
How much of it is an awareness challenge do you think
, or are there other challengesbeyond just people knowing about
?
A that it's the right thing todo, but B where to actually send
it?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I think it's that.
I think it's awareness and cost.
So you know people talk aboutpaper, plastic, glass and other
traditional recyclables all thetime.
Electronics is kind of theredheaded stepchild of this
industry.
It doesn't get too muchattention and it's unfortunate
because it's the fastest growingwaste stream.
Right, it's delivering the mosttoxins into, or 70% of the
toxins going into the wastestream are coming from our
(12:57):
electronics.
But the problem is is that welook at it from, it's got a high
cost associated with it,because that iPhone that we paid
a thousand dollars for twoyears ago is now not worth more
than about $25.
And I can stick it in my draweror I have pictures on it and I
used to do my banking on it.
Maybe I'll just hit it with ahammer and throw it in the trash
.
There are alternatives thatpeople use instead of finding a
(13:21):
better way to either reuse orrecycle that device.
So getting into the marketplaceand educating the people as to
why it's important, why it's avalue, is a big critical deal,
and the other is shrinkinglogistics make it easy for
people, so the cost comes down.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And speaking of cost, I think one of the arguments
around why recyclers wouldn'twant to get certified is that
they think it's expensive.
It's expensive at the forefront, as you mentioned.
It's something to maintain.
Every year you have to getaudited.
There's costs associated withthat.
What's your response to thatargument?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Well, you see that a lot.
There are people that are outthere that are actually saying
we follow R2 standards, butthey're not R2 certified.
And what's important for, Ithink, the customers that are
using those services is thatguarantee, is that transparency,
Because you know that a companylike Quantum is going to get an
audit.
People are going to look at thebooks and make sure that the
(14:19):
material you're handling is doneproperly.
Nobody's doing that for thesenon-certified companies.
So if I'm going to be riskingmy brand reputation on these
services that are missioncritical for me, even though
it's a small piece of what I'mdoing, I'm going to make sure
that I'm doing it right.
So to choose a company that iscertified is a requirement in
(14:42):
this day and age.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Now I would say from my observation that having a
certification like R2 oreStewards is table stakes for
working with mid-sized to largecompanies.
If you do not have thecertification, then you're not
working with them.
Has that been what you'veexperienced as well?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, and that's what we push.
There know there are.
Yeah, there are a lot ofalternatives.
You know I talk to people allthe time.
We pay for trash pickup everyweek or every month.
You know every month that.
You know we'll take a halfeaten tuna fish sandwich and
have no qualms about throwing itin the trash, but that wasn't
free.
We're paying for somebody tocome and pick that up and put it
in a landfill for us.
(15:25):
You have to have the samementality as it comes to your
electronic waste that has yourdata on it and has a whole bunch
of material that is verydetrimental to our environment
and people's health.
There is a cost associated withit, not all the time.
Sometimes the material thatyou're trading into these folks
is going to bring you a returnon investment, but all in all,
you have to be responsible forthe material that you're
(15:47):
acquiring and make sure that itgets put into the right place
when it's at end of life or whenyou're done with it.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I would also say one of the benefits we've seen at
Quantum is that being certifiedand having to go through that
process of an audit every yearhas really pushed us to keep
improving and identify areaswhere we can do even better, and
so it also shows like theevolution of the companies and
the industry as well like tostay on top of what's the
(16:15):
current best practices and wherethings are going as well.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, and chief information officers and other
people in the space that aregetting more educated about this
.
So you are seeing a growth inthe people that are demanding
certification, which is great.
That's a big part of what we'redoing, but it's also educating
the public and small businessand other people that really
need to kind of step up theirgame here.
The public.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
let's move into our how-to section, where I ask you
how-to questions, and the firstone is how to find a certified
ITAD or recycling facility.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Well, very easy place is just to go to jointerraorg.
As I mentioned, we got 120facilities in our network in 12
countries.
That's a place to go.
You can contact us, but thatonly represents a portion of the
folks that are certified outthere.
So we definitely want to makesure that we're promoting
everybody, even though noteverybody might not be a member.
(17:14):
So the other place would be togo to you mentioned R2 and Siri.
They maintain a site where youcan search and find all of the
folks that are certified acrossthe globe.
I think the total marketplaceof certified facilities across
the globe is something like1,200 facilities in like 40
countries.
So while we've got a good piece, siri has everybody and then
(17:36):
for eStewards certified samething On their website.
That's where you'll find theirinformation.
It's eStewardsorg.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
So it's straightforward Go online, go to
jointerraorg Dot org.
Dot org.
Okay, had to make sure thesuffix was correct, or Siri, or
R2, or Eastwards.
Okay, that's great.
Next one how to get morecomplex businesses all on board.
(18:05):
It's one thing for anorganization who has one
location to find the closestcertified recycler, but I've
even seen as Quantum has grownand we're now 12 locations
across Canada one in Costa.
Rica.
It gets more complex as you addmore locations, but there's
(18:27):
certain business models that aremore complex to begin with,
like franchises.
So, steve, how do you get thesecomplex businesses on board?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
So that's where we're spending a lot of time and a
lot of focus.
I mean, think of justhospitality, think of Hilton
Hotels.
I mean thousands of facilitiesall across the world.
Each one of those rooms has atelevision, a phone, a clock,
batteries, remote controls, andthey've got to be able to find,
ultimately, when they kind ofstart taking this and focusing
(18:59):
on it as an ESG opportunity tofind some organizations that can
help them with a globalfootprint, that's kind of where
we step in is to say look, we'rea one-stop shop, one neck to
choke.
You come to Terra, we can helpconnect you with the people that
can help you, and so that'sreally important, because what
companies are finding out?
If they don't, it's starting toget expensive, it's starting to
(19:20):
get expensive.
I've got just a little quicklist here of companies just in
the last couple of years thathave gotten dinged for data
breaches or other kind ofe-waste leakage problems Morgan
Stanley $60 million fine forincorrectly handling data.
Home Depot, $28 million, target, $7.4 million that was both
(19:43):
data security and leavingbatteries and other electronics
in a place that it shouldn'thave been.
Big lots.
Walgreens, dollar general thelist never ends.
So when companies start talkingabout well, it's too expensive
to use a certified recycler.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
It's too expensive not to I would completely agree
with that and we've we'vetouched on that on a few
episodes, so thank you forhitting that point home again.
Like coming back to your pointaround protection.
This is your protection againstthat.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Okay, last question, steve how to stay updated and
educated in this space.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Well, one thing would be to join Terra.
So we always constantly provideour members with good
information.
We do a webinar every month.
We call them Third Thursday,terras Third Thursday of the
month, at three o'clock Easterntime.
We always do something that isinvolving this space.
So put that on your calendarresearch papers that you were
(20:45):
kind of identifying early on,and you're getting some of your,
your data from which was the e,the global e-waste monitor.
That comes about out aboutevery two years.
It is a publication that comesfrom the united nations and they
do a pretty fair job of kind ofidentifying.
You know where the material iscoming from, what some of the
issues are, what the globalissues are although, again, some
of their methodologies and howmuch they are saying is in the
marketplace I question butnonetheless it's impactful.
(21:08):
They were able to demonstratejust in this last report that
every year and it's going to begrowing at a pretty fast rate
that the world created moree-waste last year than is the
equivalent weight of the GreatWall of China.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
That's going to be happening every year, growing at
about a 25% clip at least till2030.
Wow.
So again going back to, we needto make sure these electronics
are managed responsibly, bothfrom a company level and an
individual level as well.
So thanks for those insightsaround where to stay updated.
We'll post the links in theshow notes.
Steve, thank you so much forthis conversation.
(21:50):
That word protection has reallystuck out to me as a way to
frame why it's important to usecertified recyclers and also why
it's important to get certifiedas well.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Steve, what would be one thing that you would leave
our listeners with in terms of apiece of advice Would it be to
get certified or would it besomething else?
Well, if I'm an ITAD provideror a recycler in this space
today, yes, I'm gettingcertified because, as the
trajectory of this industry is,people are going to be using
certified exclusively.
So if you want to have along-term business, go in that
direction.
As it relates to the peoplethat utilize those services,
just one single word or twowords certification matters.
(22:29):
I think of it as one wordbecause we use the hashtag
certification matters oneverything that we put out, but
that's what it boils down to.
You produce e-waste.
You have a responsibility toyourselves, your employees, your
shareholders, whomever.
Do it in a responsible mannerand find a certified recycler
for help.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
And hashtag certification matters.
Hashtag certification matters.
Thank you so much, Steve.
This has been super insightful.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Thank you, Stephanie.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
And remember, if you are looking for a certified
partner to help you repair,reuse and recycle your
electronics, we'd love to chatHead on over to
quantumlifecyclecom and contactus.
This is a Quantum Lifecyclepodcast and the producer is
Sanjay Trivedi.
Thank you for being a CircularFuture Champion in your company
and beyond.
Logging off.
Most people know it's not a good idea to throw
electronics in the garbage.
So where should e-waste go andwhy?
Welcome to the Circular Future,your access to thought leaders
and innovations.
To help you be a businesssustainability champion, even if
it's not your core job.
I'm your host.
Stephanie McLarty, head ofSustainability at Quantum
(00:23):
Lifecycle Partners.
Stephanie McLarty, head ofSustainability at Quantum
Lifecycle Partners.
In episode 13, we covered ashort and sweet episode of why
certifications matter.
Today we're diving deeper tounderstand the reasons to make
sure your electronic waste goesto the right place and where
e-waste should actually go.
With me is Steve Napoli,president and CEO of Terra, the
(00:47):
Electronics Reuse and RecyclingAlliance.
Under his leadership, terra hasexpanded to become the largest
network of certified e-wasterecyclers and IT asset
disposition, or ITAD, providersin the world, with over 120
facilities across 12 countries.
Welcome to the podcast, steve.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, thank you, Stephanie.
It's a real pleasure not onlyto be on this, but also to have
you all as members.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Well, steve, we are excited to be members of TERRA,
and many people know about TERRA.
Some people may not be, so thefirst question I have for you is
, really, what would be threethings that the world should
know about Terra?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Well, first of all, that Terra is an acronym.
It stands for the ElectronicsReuse and Recycling Alliance.
We are a network exclusivelyavailable to those that have
earned either an e-steward or anR2 certification, like Quantum.
So that's very important thateverybody in our network you can
be assured, when you work withTerra, that you're working with
(01:49):
somebody that's certified and,as you mentioned, we have 120
facilities across 12 countries,so we are the largest network of
certified recyclers anywhere.
I think the second thing thatpeople will need to know is that
the reason that we were createdwas this whole idea that
certification matters, thatcompanies like Quantum that have
gone through these rigorousinspections and are audited on
(02:09):
an ongoing basis are really theonly ones that are trustworthy
in this space to be able tomanage your IT assets, whether
they're being remarketed becausethere's still good life and
value in reusing them, or ifthey're at end of life and they
need to be sustainably recycledin a responsible way.
That also makes sure that we'renot doing anything to
negatively impact either theenvironment or employee health.
(02:31):
So that's the second thing, andthe third thing to know is that
one of the ways that we getthat out into the marketplace is
we have a program that we calldone with it or done with IT,
kind of depending if it's abusiness to business or a
business to consumer audience.
And there we have a lot ofdifferent programs where we're
doing things like digitalinclusion.
We're doing onsite events.
(02:53):
We did recycling programs withcompanies like Walmart doing
Christmas light recycling in ahundred plus stores here in the
United States last Christmas.
But we also have a mail-incomponent.
So all over the United Statesand Canada if you want to mail
in up to 150 pounds of recyclingyou can use this program.
And we've also then kind ofextended it, so the idea that
(03:15):
it's a box program to mailingmaterial in.
We've allowed our members tokind of use our technology and
platform to do that forthemselves if they don't offer a
box program.
And then we've done someadditional things with some
companies and some organizationswhere we just launched in the
last quarter a program calledDevices for Autism, because
(03:36):
there are a lot of people inthis space that employ people
that are on the spectrum.
They make very good employees.
When you teach them how todisassemble a computer or laptop
, they stay on task very well.
So they make excellentemployees and ITAD providers.
So we're working with anonprofit organization that
hires folks on the spectrum,that is R2, certified that we're
(03:58):
bringing in laptops and tabletsthat people can mail in at no
charge and those devices arebeing refurbished and reused and
helping to provide employmentopportunities for people in the
spectrum.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
That sounds like an amazing program and doing so
much good.
And I love how you have thismail-in program, because people
really struggle with what do Ido with my e-waste?
And it's so much more complexthese days because, sure, we
have all the laptops and thecomputers, the electronics that
we think of, but you mentionedChristmas lights and that has a
(04:34):
plug.
At Quantum we say we deal withanything with a battery or a
plug.
There's so many things thatfall within that spectrum, so
that's great that you'reoffering that.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
And there are so many places that are live, that live
in recycling deserts right, Imean cities were pretty good.
Here in the United States we'vegot places like Staples and
Best Buy that take material, butif you're out in the country,
you know you have very limitedoptions.
So having a mail-in programthat's effective and efficient
is a really good way to, youknow, get material where it
needs to go.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
That's a really great point that we may not realize
if we live within a city andhave access to local programs
and options.
So, steve, I think people have,for the most part, a general
understanding that electronicsshouldn't go anywhere into waste
, into the garbage, intolandfill.
But why exactly is that?
(05:26):
What are the environmental andhealth risks associated with
electronic waste?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, they're significant.
And when you think aboutelectronics it really kind of
breaks down into two categories.
You have metals and then youhave plastics.
And the metals you've gotthings like lead and mercury and
arsenic and cadmium, all thoseheavy metals you know.
If leached out into theenvironment of the, through the,
into the you know water supply,they eventually get into our
(05:54):
food, they eventually get intoour animals and then we eat them
.
And you know, depending on the,you know the material that has
very negative impacts,especially for children, on
brain development, on on lungs,where you see children getting
asthma, kidney function,neurological functions, sexual
development problems.
With some of these materials,not so much prevalent here,
(06:14):
maybe in the West, but in theareas that the West and places
like Europe are dumping theire-waste on populations that
can't handle it.
It's becoming a real problembased on populations that can't
handle it.
It's becoming a real problem.
One of the worst examples ofthat is the city of Abulagashi
in Ghana, where it's so pollutedthat just to eat a chicken egg
it has over 200 times the amountof mercury that's allowable in
(06:38):
food.
I mean it's very dangerous forthese children that are in these
areas.
So there's that.
And then on the plastic side.
You know those brominated flameretardants, things that you
know keep our electronics fromcatching fire when they get hot.
You know those have.
You know same thing very badfor our, you know, for young
children especially, but verybad for all of us in terms of
you know our neurologicalfunctions as well, as you know
(07:03):
our, our, as our kidneys and ourliver and things like that.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
So I know Tara is a big proponent of certifications
and using certified recyclersand, as you mentioned off the
top and for everyone, we are amember of Tara and we're also at
Quantum, a very proud R2certified recycler.
So, in your words, steve, whydoes certification matter in
(07:28):
this space?
It's protection.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Not only are you protecting your employees,
because a component of thesecertifications is environmental,
health and safety.
That's paramount.
If you're operating a business,you have to make sure you're
taking care of your people.
Secondly, it's about thematerial itself.
So when you're bringing inmaterial in, you're not experts
in everything, so you're goingto be downstreaming certain
elements to other folks, othercompanies that process the
(07:54):
different material than you alldo.
You want to have confidencethat the people that are
handling that are doing the sameprotecting their employees,
protecting the environment withthe way that they're reusing,
recycling and capturing thismaterial.
So that's very critical.
And then the third element ofthat protection piece is related
to data security.
You know there is information.
(08:17):
Whether you're a healthcaresystems or a bank or whomever
you may be, as a customer of oneof these R2 partners, they're
destroying your data.
That's critical.
So you know there are millionsof dollars being lost because
data is escaping, and one of thereasons or one of the ways
they're escaping is throughneglect and the way people are
handling their e-waste.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
That is a huge risk for any company and even us as
individuals as well.
So, steve, I know that you callout specifically two
certifications.
One is the R2 certificationthrough Sari, the other is
eStewards.
So why these two certifications?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Well, it's funny that both of them were kind of born
of the same idea, which, 15, 20years ago, the industry came
together to decide that wereally need to either
self-regulate or thegovernment's going to do it for
us.
So let's come up with a systemof managing the way we handle
our employee safety, the way wehandle our downstreaming and
materials, to make sure thatwe're doing this on the up and
up.
And these certificationsrequire that they're audited.
(09:17):
Your company is audited.
Make sure that you're followingthese best practices, and on an
ongoing basis, those auditscontinue.
So it's not just what you getcertified and forget about it.
You get certified and you'reconstantly inspected.
So, for the companies andindividuals that use the
services you all provide,certification matters.
Certification really mattersbecause without it there is no
(09:37):
guarantee, and that's what youguys are providing is that
guarantee of sustainability,that guarantee of data security,
and that's what companies andindividuals need as it relates
to eWay.
So, with these twocertifications they're the ones
here really in North Americathat are prominent we are
looking at a third certification, potentially as we expand,
because we are in 12 countriesand the European Union has their
(09:59):
own certification standardcalled WeLABEX W-E-E-E-L-A-B-E-X
, which we're considering adding, but that's a future
development for us.
We're really kind of stillfocused on building the North
American market and thenexpanding beyond.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
It makes so much sense that electronics should go
to a certified, so few ofelectronics actually do so.
Last week I was preparing for apresentation at one of our
major clients and education forCircular Economy Month and I
(10:35):
came across a stat that stillonly about 22% of electronics
are collected formally forelectronics recycling like for
formal certified electronicsrecycling.
There's still a huge portion ofelectronics that do not get
recycled responsibly.
Now, presumably some of thatmight be the electronic
(10:58):
hibernation, where people arestoring some of their devices
and not doing anything with it,but a large chunk probably does
go to uncertified recyclers.
Do you have a sense of whatthat breadth might be?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I think it's very difficult.
Some of the numbers that you dosee like that 22%.
The methodologies that I'veseen on how they're collecting
this information worry me alittle bit that they're not
necessarily capturing what theentire scope of the problem may
be.
That may be a small estimate.
The size of the problem mightbe a lot bigger than we even
know.
But I do know.
(11:32):
As it relates to certifiedrecycling, it's just a limited
marketplace of people that areoffering these services, so
material kind of goes to theclosest location.
Unfortunately that's.
One of the reasons we try tohave such a big footprint is to
be able to collect as muchmaterial and divert it to
certified recyclers as possible.
But here in the United States,for instance, only 25 states
(11:54):
have e-waste laws at all.
So if you're in my home stateof Tennessee, there's nothing to
say.
You can't take that materialand just throw it in the trash.
There's nothing that's going toprohibit you from doing that.
That's going to prohibit youfrom doing that.
So educating the marketplace asto why it's important, the
value of using a certifiedrecycler in terms of remarketing
dollars, potentially health andsafety and bottom line security
(12:17):
of your data is really criticalto be able to expand the number
of users of these services.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
How much of it is an awareness challenge do you think
, or are there other challengesbeyond just people knowing about
?
A that it's the right thing todo, but B where to actually send
it?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I think it's that.
I think it's awareness and cost.
So you know people talk aboutpaper, plastic, glass and other
traditional recyclables all thetime.
Electronics is kind of theredheaded stepchild of this
industry.
It doesn't get too muchattention and it's unfortunate
because it's the fastest growingwaste stream.
Right, it's delivering the mosttoxins into, or 70% of the
toxins going into the wastestream are coming from our
(12:57):
electronics.
But the problem is is that welook at it from, it's got a high
cost associated with it,because that iPhone that we paid
a thousand dollars for twoyears ago is now not worth more
than about $25.
And I can stick it in my draweror I have pictures on it and I
used to do my banking on it.
Maybe I'll just hit it with ahammer and throw it in the trash
.
There are alternatives thatpeople use instead of finding a
(13:21):
better way to either reuse orrecycle that device.
So getting into the marketplaceand educating the people as to
why it's important, why it's avalue, is a big critical deal,
and the other is shrinkinglogistics make it easy for
people, so the cost comes down.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And speaking of cost, I think one of the arguments
around why recyclers wouldn'twant to get certified is that
they think it's expensive.
It's expensive at the forefront, as you mentioned.
It's something to maintain.
Every year you have to getaudited.
There's costs associated withthat.
What's your response to thatargument?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Well, you see that a lot.
There are people that are outthere that are actually saying
we follow R2 standards, butthey're not R2 certified.
And what's important for, Ithink, the customers that are
using those services is thatguarantee, is that transparency,
Because you know that a companylike Quantum is going to get an
audit.
People are going to look at thebooks and make sure that the
(14:19):
material you're handling is doneproperly.
Nobody's doing that for thesenon-certified companies.
So if I'm going to be riskingmy brand reputation on these
services that are missioncritical for me, even though
it's a small piece of what I'mdoing, I'm going to make sure
that I'm doing it right.
So to choose a company that iscertified is a requirement in
(14:42):
this day and age.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Now I would say from my observation that having a
certification like R2 oreStewards is table stakes for
working with mid-sized to largecompanies.
If you do not have thecertification, then you're not
working with them.
Has that been what you'veexperienced as well?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, and that's what we push.
There know there are.
Yeah, there are a lot ofalternatives.
You know I talk to people allthe time.
We pay for trash pickup everyweek or every month.
You know every month that.
You know we'll take a halfeaten tuna fish sandwich and
have no qualms about throwing itin the trash, but that wasn't
free.
We're paying for somebody tocome and pick that up and put it
in a landfill for us.
(15:25):
You have to have the samementality as it comes to your
electronic waste that has yourdata on it and has a whole bunch
of material that is verydetrimental to our environment
and people's health.
There is a cost associated withit, not all the time.
Sometimes the material thatyou're trading into these folks
is going to bring you a returnon investment, but all in all,
you have to be responsible forthe material that you're
(15:47):
acquiring and make sure that itgets put into the right place
when it's at end of life or whenyou're done with it.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I would also say one of the benefits we've seen at
Quantum is that being certifiedand having to go through that
process of an audit every yearhas really pushed us to keep
improving and identify areaswhere we can do even better, and
so it also shows like theevolution of the companies and
the industry as well like tostay on top of what's the
(16:15):
current best practices and wherethings are going as well.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, and chief information officers and other
people in the space that aregetting more educated about this
.
So you are seeing a growth inthe people that are demanding
certification, which is great.
That's a big part of what we'redoing, but it's also educating
the public and small businessand other people that really
need to kind of step up theirgame here.
The public.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
let's move into our how-to section, where I ask you
how-to questions, and the firstone is how to find a certified
ITAD or recycling facility.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Well, very easy place is just to go to jointerraorg.
As I mentioned, we got 120facilities in our network in 12
countries.
That's a place to go.
You can contact us, but thatonly represents a portion of the
folks that are certified outthere.
So we definitely want to makesure that we're promoting
everybody, even though noteverybody might not be a member.
(17:14):
So the other place would be togo to you mentioned R2 and Siri.
They maintain a site where youcan search and find all of the
folks that are certified acrossthe globe.
I think the total marketplaceof certified facilities across
the globe is something like1,200 facilities in like 40
countries.
So while we've got a good piece, siri has everybody and then
(17:36):
for eStewards certified samething On their website.
That's where you'll find theirinformation.
It's eStewardsorg.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
So it's straightforward Go online, go to
jointerraorg Dot org.
Dot org.
Okay, had to make sure thesuffix was correct, or Siri, or
R2, or Eastwards.
Okay, that's great.
Next one how to get morecomplex businesses all on board.
(18:05):
It's one thing for anorganization who has one
location to find the closestcertified recycler, but I've
even seen as Quantum has grownand we're now 12 locations
across Canada one in Costa.
Rica.
It gets more complex as you addmore locations, but there's
(18:27):
certain business models that aremore complex to begin with,
like franchises.
So, steve, how do you get thesecomplex businesses on board?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
So that's where we're spending a lot of time and a
lot of focus.
I mean, think of justhospitality, think of Hilton
Hotels.
I mean thousands of facilitiesall across the world.
Each one of those rooms has atelevision, a phone, a clock,
batteries, remote controls, andthey've got to be able to find,
ultimately, when they kind ofstart taking this and focusing
(18:59):
on it as an ESG opportunity tofind some organizations that can
help them with a globalfootprint, that's kind of where
we step in is to say look, we'rea one-stop shop, one neck to
choke.
You come to Terra, we can helpconnect you with the people that
can help you, and so that'sreally important, because what
companies are finding out?
If they don't, it's starting toget expensive, it's starting to
(19:20):
get expensive.
I've got just a little quicklist here of companies just in
the last couple of years thathave gotten dinged for data
breaches or other kind ofe-waste leakage problems Morgan
Stanley $60 million fine forincorrectly handling data.
Home Depot, $28 million, target, $7.4 million that was both
(19:43):
data security and leavingbatteries and other electronics
in a place that it shouldn'thave been.
Big lots.
Walgreens, dollar general thelist never ends.
So when companies start talkingabout well, it's too expensive
to use a certified recycler.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
It's too expensive not to I would completely agree
with that and we've we'vetouched on that on a few
episodes, so thank you forhitting that point home again.
Like coming back to your pointaround protection.
This is your protection againstthat.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Okay, last question, steve how to stay updated and
educated in this space.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Well, one thing would be to join Terra.
So we always constantly provideour members with good
information.
We do a webinar every month.
We call them Third Thursday,terras Third Thursday of the
month, at three o'clock Easterntime.
We always do something that isinvolving this space.
So put that on your calendarresearch papers that you were
(20:45):
kind of identifying early on,and you're getting some of your,
your data from which was the e,the global e-waste monitor.
That comes about out aboutevery two years.
It is a publication that comesfrom the united nations and they
do a pretty fair job of kind ofidentifying.
You know where the material iscoming from, what some of the
issues are, what the globalissues are although, again, some
of their methodologies and howmuch they are saying is in the
marketplace I question butnonetheless it's impactful.
(21:08):
They were able to demonstratejust in this last report that
every year and it's going to begrowing at a pretty fast rate
that the world created moree-waste last year than is the
equivalent weight of the GreatWall of China.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
That's going to be happening every year, growing at
about a 25% clip at least till2030.
Wow.
So again going back to, we needto make sure these electronics
are managed responsibly, bothfrom a company level and an
individual level as well.
So thanks for those insightsaround where to stay updated.
We'll post the links in theshow notes.
Steve, thank you so much forthis conversation.
(21:50):
That word protection has reallystuck out to me as a way to
frame why it's important to usecertified recyclers and also why
it's important to get certifiedas well.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Steve, what would be one thing that you would leave
our listeners with in terms of apiece of advice Would it be to
get certified or would it besomething else?
Well, if I'm an ITAD provideror a recycler in this space
today, yes, I'm gettingcertified because, as the
trajectory of this industry is,people are going to be using
certified exclusively.
So if you want to have along-term business, go in that
direction.
As it relates to the peoplethat utilize those services,
just one single word or twowords certification matters.
(22:29):
I think of it as one wordbecause we use the hashtag
certification matters oneverything that we put out, but
that's what it boils down to.
You produce e-waste.
You have a responsibility toyourselves, your employees, your
shareholders, whomever.
Do it in a responsible mannerand find a certified recycler
for help.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
And hashtag certification matters.
Hashtag certification matters.
Thank you so much, Steve.
This has been super insightful.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Thank you, Stephanie.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
And remember, if you are looking for a certified
partner to help you repair,reuse and recycle your
electronics, we'd love to chatHead on over to
quantumlifecyclecom and contactus.
This is a Quantum Lifecyclepodcast and the producer is
Sanjay Trivedi.
Thank you for being a CircularFuture Champion in your company
and beyond.
Logging off.
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