June 26, 2024 • 42 mins
This week we return to our conversation with the City of Toronto’s Director of Urban Forestry, Kim Statham. Last episode we talked about some of the challenges and opportunities facing Toronto’s urban forest, but this episode we take a step back, and contextualize these issues more broadly. Kim discusses Toronto’s participation in the United Nations Environment Program, where cities from around the world collaborate to promote ecological restoration and facilitate knowledge exchange.
In addition to the role cities play on the international stage to reach our climate and biodiversity goals, Kim explains how subnational governments can contribute through building both physical ecological corridors and relational ones. We also learn about how Toronto’s approach to urban forestry has earned its status as a leader in this arena.
Check out Toronto's Tree City of the World Award news release.
Make sure to check out the show notes on the podcast webpage for more links and helpful resources.
You can help this community grow by sharing the podcast with your friends.
PodMatch Automatically Matches Ideal Podcast Guests and Hosts For Interviews
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jan Sumner (00:00):
Welcome to the Clear Cut.
Hi, I'm Janet Sumner, ExecutiveDirector at Wildlands League.
Kaya Adleman (00:08):
And I'm Kaya Adelman, Carbon Manager at
Wildlands League.
Jan Sumner (00:14):
Wildlands League is a Canadian conservation
organization working onprotecting the natural world.
Kaya Adleman (00:21):
The Clear Cut is bringing to you the much-needed
conversation on Canadian forestmanagement and how we can better
protect one of Canada's mostimportant ecosystems, as our
forests are reaching a tippingpoint.
Jan Sumner (00:40):
So this is episode two, with Kim Statham, who is
the director of forestry for thecity of Toronto urban forestry,
where we have trees where mostCanadians live, which is in
places that are highly populated.
The trees are competing withoffice towers and condo
(01:02):
buildings and all kinds of roadnetworks, et cetera.
These brave souls are makingsure that we have a really good
tree canopy cover, which isgoing to ultimately help us with
droughts, floods and heat andkeep our cities safer as we
(01:23):
experience more change fromclimate change.
So it's exciting to have thisconversation.
Kaya Adleman (01:29):
Yeah, definitely.
I think it's timely too.
We had a heat dome in easternCanada.
I don't know about you, jan,but have you been feeling the
effects of the cooling fromToronto's urban tree canopy?
Jan Sumner (01:44):
Well, I actually have a lot of trees in my
neighborhood, so we do feel itLike if you go along some of
these streets with all the bigtrees, especially when the sun's
over top and in the sunshine itjust it really hits you, and
then all of a sudden you'reunderneath the trees and it's
like ah, relief.
And if there's grass underneathor there's other vegetation as
(02:06):
well that you can, you can feelthat cooling and in the morning
walks and things like that, youget the um, the dew on the trees
and on the vegetationunderneath and that definitely
feels so much better.
Kaya Adleman (02:19):
Yeah, I went for a run earlier this week and I was
purposefully picking out theplaces the sides of the road
where there were trees, and itdefinitely did make a difference
in this weather.
Jan Sumner (02:33):
Yeah, I had dinner with a friend of mine the other
night down in the very southernpart of Toronto near Union
Station and his walk.
He had to go, you know, a fairdistance north and he was saying
he was going to pick hisstreets to maximize the tree
coverage and he'd already donethe math.
(02:53):
He'd already figured out allthe ways in which he could find
a path that got him some trees.
So, yeah, I think people aredrawn to it out of necessity,
but also because it's just muchmore pleasant the bird song, etc
.
Big birders love the trees.
Kim's going to start thisepisode off talking about how
(03:16):
Toronto has received anotherTree City of the World Award,
which is great, and I want toalso stress in terms of laying
this out.
We've talked to Kim, who's atthe City of Toronto.
It's, yes, it's one of ourlargest cities, but it's an
example 11 other cities aroundthe world who were chosen under
(03:47):
the United Nations EnvironmentProgram to think about all the
other projects that they couldbe doing and learn from each
other, etc.
Etc.
And I was asked to speak at aconference I think it was over a
year ago now and Vancouver hadbeen positioning itself as a
sponge city and thinking abouthow green infrastructure, which
is what vegetation and plantsand trees are called, can help
with droughts and flooding andheat.
(04:08):
And other cities have the samekind of mindset, as I mentioned
London, ontario, but I knowEdmonton and many other cities
across Canada are thinking inthis regard.
We just chose Toronto becausewe had access and we could have
chosen many other cities toprofile.
So this is just an example ofhow urban forestry can or is
(04:33):
improving the natural world inand around where most Canadians
live.
Kaya Adleman (04:39):
Yeah, so thanks, kim, and make sure to check out
the first part of our interview,if you haven't already, and I'm
excited to to learn more abouturban forestry did you see our
news release on earth day?
Jan Sumner (04:57):
sorry, no, no, no, I did not see that, but you go
ahead with your news release onearth day.
Please tell us all about it.
Kim Statham (05:03):
So I was so pleased .
I've spent lots of wonderful,wonderful Earth Days.
This one was extra special.
We announced that Toronto hasjust received its fifth
consecutive Tree City of theWorld Award, awarded by the Food
(05:24):
and Agricultural Organizationof the United Nations and the
Arbor Day Foundation.
I was so pleased to join DeputyMayor McKelvey and our General
Manager of Parks, forestry andRecreation, howie Dayton, to
raise a flag at ScarboroughCivic Centre to honour this.
We're really proud this is veryreflective of the program, of
(05:48):
the team, of the work that we doand so pleased to join all of
the other cities that wererecognised as well.
Five years ago, there were 59cities recognised and in 20, for
2023, 200, roughly 200 citieswere recognized.
(06:09):
This is a fantastic network oftree cities around the world
that know what they have, thathave plans for their protection
and their expansion and makeefforts to celebrate with
communities you know in their,in their neighborhoods.
Kaya Adleman (06:35):
Do you want to talk a little bit about the
United Nations EnvironmentProgram?
Do.
Kim Statham (06:41):
Yes, so we were really pleased to have Toronto
City Council support to apply toa program late last year, late
2023.
This is a program calledGeneration Restoration, being
(07:03):
organized by the United NationsEnvironment Program and ICLEI,
and we found out late last yearthat Toronto was chosen as a
role model city.
We joined one of nine otherrole model cities around the
world and we joined about 11pilot cities around the world.
(07:29):
The premise of this program isto promote ecological
restoration and to facilitateknowledge exchange between
cities.
We know that and we've talkedabout this already that
subnational governments have ahuge role to play in
biodiversity conservation andnature-based solutions.
(07:50):
Cities have impacts, but theyalso have incredible support,
funding programs to address allof these things.
You know all of all of thesethings and it it's it's really a
network where model cities willserve, as you know, champions
(08:10):
of restoration, with peer topeer exchanges, contributing
knowledge, development of toolsand, and you know, discussions
to look at how and what rolecities play in global
biodiversity conservation.
We were very excited to bechosen as one of the role model
(08:35):
cities.
We're absolutely thrilled thatMontreal has also since joined
those ranks.
So those are the two Canadiancities which are representing
through this program, bothcities with huge commitment to
biodiversity Of course Montrealhosted COP 15 last year and
(09:00):
within the UN decade onecosystem restoration, these are
conversations we need to behaving and, again, not just, you
know, connecting.
You know.
I love the conversation we'vehad today.
We've talked about, well, howdo we connect with local
municipalities, how do weconnect, you know, federally and
provincially, and this is aprogram that Toronto is involved
(09:22):
in, that's connecting citiesglobally.
We have a lot to learn, we havea lot to share and it's a
two-year program that we're so,so thrilled to be supporting.
Jan Sumner (09:36):
Because I think you attended something in was it
Paris?
And not going to give away yoursecrets, but I wonder, are
there some of the other citiesthat you've already taken note
of and you've kind of gone?
Oh, I really like what they doon that, or I'm interested in
(09:57):
that and can you give us maybe asneak preview before you've
completed your two years.
Kim Statham (10:03):
So when I attended the first workshop in December,
I filled up three notebooks ofideas and inspiration and I
think what struck me the most ishow similar we are to other
cities in a global environment.
(10:26):
Quezon City, Philippines, youknow, have mangrove forests.
I don't have.
We don't have mangrove forestshere, but the role that they
play related to protectingcities from, you know, ocean
(10:46):
currents and flooding, floodrisk is very similar to how our
river valleys here in Torontoserve as flood conveyance.
I was so impressed by Cape Town,South Africa, and the work that
they're doing with, with theirvery unique invasive species
(11:07):
species I've never heard ofbefore but in terms of the same
challenges that we have inToronto with, with invasive
species, with managementtechniques, with, you know,
public support and funding to toaddress that, address that
(11:27):
challenge.
I think it was said, their cityhas the most biodiversity, it's
the most biodiverse city in theworld, and just it was so
inspiring to meet and to learnwhat they're doing.
To meet and to learn whatthey're doing.
(11:49):
The other city that I was soimpressed by was Kanazawa City
in Japan, and what they broughtto the table was preserving
biodiversity by supportingcultural samurai gardens, how to
(12:31):
care and prune and sustainthese gardens with tourism and
younger generations that thatmay travel and come and have an
opportunity to learn and sustainthat knowledge.
So it so, that was so inspiring.
Jan Sumner (12:47):
Wow, that's amazing when cities get a chance to
connect right, because usuallyit's countries talking to each
other, sometimes it's provincesspeaking to certain US states
kind of thing, or maybe aMexican state, but it's not as
common where you're kind of inthe same room as a bunch of
other cities who are maybestruggling with the same kinds
(13:08):
of things Toronto is strugglingwith.
Kim Statham (13:10):
And one of the takeaways.
Again, we're at the beginningof this network and this program
, but what we're looking tofigure out together is financing
how do we globally financenature-based solutions?
It is a very interestingconversation because we and when
(13:32):
I say we, I mean differentcities, different levels of
government, collect differentdata, we monitor our natural
resources in different ways andso and we have different funding
models or lack thereof, youknow entirely.
(13:54):
And so this is going to be areally interesting conversation
that I think will benefitinternational level
conversations, nationalgovernments and subnational
governments on again, we havecollective goals.
How do we measure collectively?
(14:16):
How do we finance collectively?
And, you know, make thosecollective decisions, if you
will, all for that common goalof biodiversity protection and
ecosystem restoration, thatcommon goal of biodiversity
protection and ecosystemrestoration.
Jan Sumner (14:35):
Well, I don't want to neglect the fact that Canada
does have its own organizingframework for cities with the
Federation of CanadianMunicipalities, but getting a
chance to learn from aninternational scale what other
countries and cities andcultures are doing in their
municipalities, it's reallyquite an incredible opportunity.
(14:56):
So I'm glad that Toronto's atthat table and Montreal so those
are two great cities in Canada.
We now have qualified to beable to run commercials on our
podcast.
This may not seem like a goodthing for some people, but for
us at the Clear Cut, it's a verygood thing.
It means that you, our public,are now downloading over a
(15:20):
thousand copies of each episodea month, which is fantastic, and
it puts us into a new bracketwhere people want to actually
advertise on the podcast.
We are going to do our very bestto make sure that the ads that
run on the podcast are somethingthat may be of relevance or of
interest to you, and hope thatyou can listen to these ads and
(15:40):
see them as a marker of successand your faith in the podcast.
So thank you so much forlistening to the Clear Cut.
I know that, kaya, and Iappreciate it so very, very much
, thank you.
The clear cut.
I know that, kaya, and Iappreciate it.
So very, very much Thank you.
I know that I'm very proud ofthe trees and the canopy cover
(16:05):
and certainly during thepandemic it was the only place
to be was in one of the cityparks.
I mean, I go there quite oftenanyway but it was just you could
see people's relief just beingin a place where they could at
least nod to each other, say hiand be, out there in nature.
It was really quite fantastic.
And of course, we have a lot ofwildlife in and around the city
of Toronto as well, which takeadvantage of all of the places
(16:27):
that we call forests and treecanopy and you know things like
that, so it makes Toronto a verybusy place as well and you get
a chance to really see nature.
Kim Statham (16:37):
I think there is nothing more spectacular than
you know.
Driving along one of theravines, I can think of York
Mills and Yonge Street there wasa bit of a backup but I
couldn't understand why.
But I did when I crawled up intraffic and deer grazing just
off the road.
You see them along the DonValley Parkway in the Lower Don
(17:00):
Parkland.
I live in a downtown ward and Icame home one day to having an
opossum that's right, an opossumnapping on my back deck.
He might not have been nappingbefore we got there, but we
certainly startled him when wecame in from from school and
work.
So he might have, uh,immediately played, played that
(17:22):
uh that dead card but it's, um,it's.
It's so important to understandthat we share, you know, this
space and those are amazingindicator species to know or to
really reflect or speak to thehealth of the natural world that
(17:46):
we have here in the city.
It's a perfect time of year.
We have migratory birds comingback.
I walk the dog in the morningsand there's a Carolina wren
every year for a few weeks that,you know, is making its way
through and stops in in myneighborhood, and that's that's
what's really incredible aboutthis network that we have is
(18:08):
taking stocks, taking notice, um, not just appreciating you know
the shade that trees provide asyou walk down the street, but
maybe the scent of their flowers, the birds that are.
You know that call them home.
You know the other wildlifethat we might see if you live,
(18:30):
work or play in one of Toronto'slarger natural areas.
It's really quite incredible.
Jan Sumner (18:37):
It's good that you remind me of that because I
remember a few years ago I washelping the federal government
design its plan for how toprotect 30% of Canada by 2030.
And as we were doing that andthinking through that Canada by
2030.
And as we were doing that andthinking through that and it was
(18:58):
to motivate provinces andencourage Indigenous-led
protection and get to that 30%by 2030.
And I would say that a numberof people got lost in that 30%
and thought, oh well, that's notgoing to include me because
we're in a city, we don't havethat much land we can't.
Oh well, that's not going toinclude me because we're in a
city, we don't have that muchland, we can't do a big
protection, it's not going toadd a percentage point to
Canada's target, etc.
(19:20):
And I know that municipalitieswere not entirely left out, but
largely left out of thatequation because it was really
trying to get the bigpercentages.
And I think we could have donea better job, and I count myself
in and amongst the people whodidn't necessarily get it all
the way right.
I mean, we did move the needleon protection, there's no
(19:41):
question.
But one of the things that Ithink that we forgot or that we
don't focus on yet is thatgetting to 30% by 2030, this
target, that is international,is there because we actually
want to protect ecosystems andmake sure that they're thriving
and healthy, and we often think,okay, well, it's the site of an
(20:06):
ecosystem.
You can draw a boundary aroundit, it's geographically located,
but the reality is that many ofthese species that you were
just mentioning, like, forexample, monarch butterflies,
are very important to people whoare living in cities.
We see the monarch butterflygardens being put up.
We also understand that birdsare dependent on having all
(20:28):
different kinds of places wherethey can land and feed or rest
on their migratory paths.
So if we go about the businessof, let's say, protecting a
large area, like we've beenworking on in Hudson Bay and
James Bay, which is part ofCanada's boreal forest, to
protect all those areas whereit's like a big bug stew up
there, and people often say,well, you know why do they go to
(20:50):
the boreal?
And they say, oh well, becauseit's where they, it's their
breeding grounds, and I'm like,no, they go up to feast on bugs.
They just love the bugs upthere, so they go all the way up
there.
They're feasting on the bugs.
But then they got to fly southand some of them are going as
far south as Antarctica.
So where are they going to stop?
That's a heck of a journey.
Like are you?
You could maybe find a farmer'sfield, maybe you can get a tree
(21:14):
along the way.
But some of our cities, likethose ravines that you talk
about, those are flyways.
Those are places where birdsjust go through them and they
launch themselves out across theGreat Lake Lake, ontario, and
then go through the US and thenthey're down to South America,
et cetera.
But imagine if we didn't havecities like Toronto or many
other cities that had incrediblevegetation cover and tree cover
(21:38):
that those birds could findrespite and food along their
journeys, both migrating southand then coming back north again
.
So it's an important part ofthat 30 by 30, because if the
goal is to get to healthy,thriving ecosystems, we need to
think about the migratorypatterns of birds, for sure for
monarch butterflies, for manyothers, and if we don't, then
(22:02):
we're missing a beat, becauseyou can't just protect an area
in the north and one in thesouth and say good luck, hope
you make it.
It's not going to happen.
Kim Statham (22:11):
And isn't that?
You know, exactly what we learnin, you know, ecosystem
management 101 is that we cannothave these isolated patches of
habitat.
You need ecological corridors,both visually and on the ground,
for migrating species.
And in Toronto, our ravinesystem, by its nature, is north
(22:32):
to south, all of the headwaters,all of the rivers that run
through the city and in LakeOntario, and so you know, when
we're looking at, how do wecollectively look at protected
lands, does it matter if it's aravine in Toronto?
Does it matter if it's Canada'sfirst urban national park, in
(22:55):
Rouge National Urban Park?
It doesn't.
To the bird that is migrating,to monarchs that come up to
roost and rest and to seek, youknow, habitat, food, shelter.
And that's what I think isreally interesting and where the
, you know, opportunities remainin terms of this collaboration
(23:18):
and in terms of, you know,federal, provincial, municipal
goals towards biodiversityprotection, ecosystem services,
nature-based solutions.
Nature-based solutions.
(23:40):
Nature is a collection of thesespaces and that's what we need
to turn our minds to, whathappens, you know, just outside
our boundaries and how can wecollectively reach goals which
are common goals you've spoken afew times about the.
Jan Sumner (24:01):
you know that's the border of toronto and that's and
and I imagine you're alsohaving conversations just
outside the border of toronto,because those ecosystems are,
whether it's the headwaters forthe Don or the Humber, those
headwaters are elsewhere, and sowe have to actually be working
together with othermunicipalities as they think
through their plans as well.
How does that work for a citylike Toronto?
(24:21):
How do you go about that?
Kim Statham (24:26):
Well, I think initiatives like 30 by 30 um
kind of are the vehicle to havethose conversations so of
interest.
Of the six rivers that runthrough toronto on their on
their path down to lake ontario,only one has its headwaters
within our municipal boundariesand that's highland, which is
(24:50):
right in between the Rouge andthe Don.
And so land use planningdecisions that happen in
headwaters have an impactthrough the city and that's why
it's important that we work withconservation authorities in
this area.
We work with Toronto and RegionConservation Authority to
(25:13):
consider those impacts.
You know I've talked a lotabout our goals and about the
great things across Toronto'surban forest.
You know, one of the things thatis a challenge that we see
we're seeing trends from our twotree canopy studies is that
loss of permeable space is theloss of a plantable area.
(25:36):
Cities need to grow, housing iscritical and every city, you
know, needs to and has housingplans.
There is a way to balancehousing with nature, with tree
canopy as trees being one of thecritical elements of livable
(25:58):
cities.
And so, you know, as we looktoward the future on, you know,
opportunities to expand, we verymuch keep in mind.
Well, where are we seeing thechallenges and where are we
losing ground, literally andfiguratively?
Jan Sumner (26:15):
I do want to ask a question also about ecological
corridors, and I'm going to askyou if you have anything to do
with the Meadoway project.
Sure yeah, I can speak to that,okay, yeah, let's do Meadoway.
So let's talk about Meadoway.
I'm talking about all of thefavorite places that I like to
go.
So the Meadoway is basicallythe hydro corridor across quite
(26:39):
a big swath of Toronto andthey're they're returning it to
being a Meadoway, right, yeah,okay, maybe you can talk about
that, kim.
That'd be great.
Kim Statham (26:44):
So you know, we have natural ecological
corridors and we have human madeecological corridors, and the
Meadoway is a fantastic projectled by the Toronto and Region
Conservation Authority withamazing support from the Weston
Family Foundation.
I've been grateful to be onsome walks and some openings of
(27:08):
the different reaches anddifferent areas of the trail.
It is so important from both anecological perspective but also
an accessibility perspectiveand getting people into places
to experience the benefits oftrees and nature.
One of the things that I'm mostexcited about the Meadoway is
(27:30):
what it connects, so not justcommunities and the people of
Toronto, but key ecologicalareas.
In the future, the Meadowaywill connect Rouge National
Urban Park right into the heartof downtown Toronto, into the
(27:50):
Don Valley and into our ravinesystem.
When we think of corridors andtravel networks, you know,
looking to improve options forcycling and walking and
connectivity in our, you know,natural, more natural spaces is
so important and this is a key,key project.
(28:14):
Imagine, you know, living in acondo with no outdoor, private
outdoor space and being able tohop on your bike, get on the
Dawn Trail, take the Meadowayall the way out to to Rouge
National Urban Park.
Would be, would be justincredible, and that's the
vision and that's the goal.
(28:35):
We're really excited about it.
Jan Sumner (28:39):
Yeah, I don't live that far from Rouge National
Urban Park and the WildlandsLeague office is down at
Richmond and Spadina.
And I remember a number of timesI would, and this is when I was
just cycling through the TaylorMassey Creek area and then
going down there to but comeupon a big buck deer sitting
(29:02):
there early in the morning andI've also cycled the other route
which is going from here toRouge National Urban Park now,
and that is, you know, it's yes,it's underneath hydro towers,
but it is breathtaking how bigit is and the number of birds
(29:22):
that are in there, and they'remeadow birds, right Like you
could hear them sitting in theground of birds that are in
there.
And then and they're meadowbirds, right like you could, you
could hear them sitting in theground.
They're not in trees, they'resitting in the grasses and
they're just like humming alongand the crickets are going and
it feels like the, the meadowsof my childhood.
Um, you know, it's that thatkind of very uh, in the heat of
the summer, that just sort ofclicking, clacking sound, and
(29:45):
it's just, yeah, it's justmagical.
And so being able to get onyour bike and ride through that
is amazing and I think it willreally help in terms of the
mental health of people in thecity, but also in terms of the
wildlife, like all those flyingcreatures and the mammal
movement that goes through thereas well.
Right, it's going to be reallyquite spectacular.
Kim Statham (30:06):
So, yeah, and Toronto also has a pollinator
strategy and start from theground.
We need those places, we needthe space and we need the
different species to supportthose pollinators.
And these are, when we think ofthe makeup of Toronto's natural
areas, from intact forest toedge forest, to riparian zones,
(30:33):
to rivers, to wetlands, rightdown to a waterfront, and you
know that dynamic shoreline itis.
You know we're very lucky tohave this resource and the
wildlife that it supports and wevery much have, you know, can
(30:57):
go hand in hand with theevolution of our city.
Jan Sumner (31:02):
The evolution of our city, the evolution of how
people live, where people live,and you know this critical green
infrastructure that really isnecessary and I want to say a
big thank you to Kim for walkingus through what happens on
(31:24):
urban forestry, and we probablyhaven't covered it all, but I do
know that there are manymunicipalities across Canada who
are working on urban forestry.
They might have vegetationtargets.
I grew up in a city calledLondon, ontario, which is called
the Forest City, or that's whatthey called it.
So still today you can gothrough town and see many
(31:47):
businesses called Forest Cityand insert whatever business it
does.
But yeah, so it's prettyincredible that many Canadian
cities identify with ravinesystems or they might have big
natural areas.
I know Edmonton has a ravinesystem through it and we've got
floodplains that exist in othercities in the prairies and in
(32:11):
southern Alberta.
And then, of course, vancouverhas that incredible Stanley Park
and Halifax has amazing areasas well.
So right across this countryour cities are full of amazing
wildlife, vegetation and treesand it's so great to be able to
just dive in a little bit onwhat's happening with the city
(32:33):
that I live in and getting tobecause Kim and I know each
other getting the chance to divein on what's happening in the
city of Toronto and how urbanforestry works because it's a
big part of everyday people'slives.
Kaya Adleman (32:47):
Yeah, I might also just want to add that the
majority of Canadians live incities, so what's happening in
our own hometowns, our own urbanareas, is pretty important, and
it's something that people canget involved in pretty easily, I
would say, or more easily thanat the federal government level
(33:07):
per se.
Kim Statham (33:08):
Absolutely.
I mean people experience treesat a neighborhood level.
It's a human scale.
You see that tree grow, thetree I planted in the backyard.
I have seen that and we, youknow you have that connection.
I think that, um, there are somany good programs for people to
(33:30):
to get involved if they'reinterested.
Toronto urban forestry hastalks and tours.
We have a recent partnershipwith tor Public Library.
Trees and Books it's about asgood as it gets.
We do hands-on stewardship,volunteer planting events.
We partner with organizationsthat do third-party or
(33:54):
community-led, I should say,events as well.
There's so many ways to getinvolved.
Events as well.
There's so many ways to getinvolved.
(34:18):
I can name a few if it'shelpful.
Toronto urban forestry has anumber of different ways to to
engage, whether it's virtual,whether it's in person, whether
you want to learn more orwhether you want to get your
hands dirty.
We have a very popular eventcount, very populated event
(34:40):
calendar spring and fall, andstewardship through the summers.
So we can put the website formore information in your show
notes later.
Jan Sumner (34:52):
And I was just going to say for all of our listeners
if you're feeling your city'sleft out, we'd be more than
happy to have a conversation onair with anybody else who wants
to talk and rave about theincredible job they're doing on
urban forestry for their city,because we really stand by those
who are doing the hard work oftaking care of our city's trees
and vegetation.
It's very important I know thatkai and I both benefit from, or
(35:16):
in montreal and me in torontofrom how our folks inside the
city are taking care of thenatural areas, and a big shout
out and kudos to all of them andto anybody who's working in a
city context or a municipalityor township or whatever you want
to call it, because it is howCanadians are connecting to the
natural world and it, it, itcreates the very foundation upon
(35:39):
which our love grows for ournatural world.
So, thank you, thank you, thankyou, okay.
Kaya Adleman (35:47):
Yeah, I couldn't say I don't think I can follow
that up, um, but yeah, I I I dothink that I'm really glad that
we had this conversation.
Thanks, kim.
I really did learn um a lot andI am really really impressed
with all the work that you'vebeen doing, and you know as
(36:08):
someone from Montreal, there's alot of shade no pun intended
towards Toronto, but makes meappreciate the city that much
more.
So thank you.
Kim Statham (36:19):
Well, if I can say on behalf of civil servants
everywhere, it is our absolutehonor and pleasure to be working
in service of urban forests.
I am so grateful for the timeand the conversation and thank
you, Kaya and Janet.
This has been a real pleasure.
Jan Sumner (36:46):
Well, kaya, that wraps another podcast where I
have learned so very much, evenif I thought I knew stuff.
I learned so very much.
I didn't know that toronto hada pollinator strategy oh, yeah,
I didn't know that either no,very important.
Yeah, we didn't so that was cool.
(37:07):
And then all the programs thatshe talks about.
We will actually include those,because she gives a lot of
examples throughout the podcastof other organizations that
they're working with, where youcan get um free trees, where you
can have conversations.
And again, I know that thisexists in other places.
I recently did a conferencedown in London, ontario, where
(37:28):
the city was present and theywere providing free trees to
people who wanted to sign up andget a tree.
Actually, you could walk awayright from the conference the
Grow Wild, go Wild conference.
That was put on by CarolinianCanada.
So check out in your local cityto see if they have some kind
(37:48):
of program like that.
I don't have a guarantee, butcertainly anybody who's
listening in Toronto you cantake it from Kim that there is a
free tree possibility in yourfuture.
Kaya Adleman (37:58):
Yeah, it's very cool.
Jan Sumner (37:59):
Yeah, Any other major takeaways for you Kaya.
Kaya Adleman (38:02):
Oh yeah, definitely.
Well, I think for me, theUnited Nations Environment
Program, or UNEP program, wasreally cool to learn about.
I think seeing thecollaboration among like
subnational actors to worktowards like meeting our climate
and biodiversity goals wasreally interesting.
You know, I think informationsharing in these programs across
(38:23):
cities in the global context issuper.
All of these initiatives aresuper critical to meeting those
(38:46):
goals that we have outlined for2030 and 2050.
And, as someone who lives in acity, these concepts seem very
accessible to me.
Like you were saying and Kimwas saying, there's ways to get
involved and see what urbanforestry initiatives are
happening locally.
See what urban forestryinitiatives are happening
(39:06):
locally.
When we talk about forestry onthe podcast and forest
management on the podcast, a lotof times these concepts seem
very far removed from us becausethey seem to be happening in
very rural places where a lot ofpeople who listen to the
podcast might not necessarilyhave direct access to.
And one of my other takeawayswas I was connecting a lot of
(39:31):
the themes from this interviewwith Kim to our episodes with
Harvey Locke where we talkedabout the three phases of the
nature needs half movement, soprotecting already intact places
, creating networks of natureconnectivity for areas partially
disturbed by industrialactivities and then restoring
already disturbed areas, and sothis is kind of the restoration
piece and when we talked aboutthe Meadoway, a bit of the
(39:55):
connectivity piece as well.
Jan Sumner (39:58):
Ooh thread in the needle there Kaya.
Just thread in the needle,that's awesome.
Kaya Adleman (40:02):
I love that I have my dartboard with the peg and
the string.
Jan Sumner (40:07):
That's fantastic.
The other takeaway I don't haveanything nearly as articulate
as that, but the other thingthat I wanted to mention was
just how she highlighted thebenefits of how they have
improved.
She comes from a very Westernscience training and now they've
(40:28):
added and learned from theIndigenous knowledge and the
incorporation of Indigenousknowledge, especially with the
prescribed burn in High Park, sothat is very interesting to me.
That is a real example of howthe world is actually changing
as we start to open our mindsand our hearts and work with
indigenous people, and how webenefit, how the world benefits
(40:50):
and how the practices that weare engaged in all change for
the better.
So that was really good and ofcourse, I just I love having a
conversation about all theplaces that we go and we walk
and she highlights the manyparks that she likes and for me
it reminded my in my backyardwas the, the ravine, with the uh
(41:13):
, the Don Valley, and so I usedto walk through there all the
time.
I had a dog at the time andused to walk through that place
and I I just loved it.
So, yeah, it was great torevisit that and think about the
trees of the city I live in.
If you like listening to theClear Cut and want to keep the
content coming, support the show.
It would mean a lot to Kaya andI.
(41:34):
The link to do so will be inthe episode description below.
Kaya Adleman (41:38):
You can also become a supporter by going to
our website atwwwwildlandsleagueorg.
Slash the clear cut and alsomake sure to leave us a review
on your favorite podcaststreaming platform.
It would really help thepodcast and stay tuned for new
episodes by following us onsocial media.
Jan Sumner (41:59):
That's at Wildlands League on Instagram, twitter and
Facebook or LinkedIn, of course.
Kaya Adleman (42:06):
See you next time.
Welcome to the Clear Cut.
Hi, I'm Janet Sumner, ExecutiveDirector at Wildlands League.
Kaya Adleman (00:08):
And I'm Kaya Adelman, Carbon Manager at
Wildlands League.
Jan Sumner (00:14):
Wildlands League is a Canadian conservation
organization working onprotecting the natural world.
Kaya Adleman (00:21):
The Clear Cut is bringing to you the much-needed
conversation on Canadian forestmanagement and how we can better
protect one of Canada's mostimportant ecosystems, as our
forests are reaching a tippingpoint.
Jan Sumner (00:40):
So this is episode two, with Kim Statham, who is
the director of forestry for thecity of Toronto urban forestry,
where we have trees where mostCanadians live, which is in
places that are highly populated.
The trees are competing withoffice towers and condo
(01:02):
buildings and all kinds of roadnetworks, et cetera.
These brave souls are makingsure that we have a really good
tree canopy cover, which isgoing to ultimately help us with
droughts, floods and heat andkeep our cities safer as we
(01:23):
experience more change fromclimate change.
So it's exciting to have thisconversation.
Kaya Adleman (01:29):
Yeah, definitely.
I think it's timely too.
We had a heat dome in easternCanada.
I don't know about you, jan,but have you been feeling the
effects of the cooling fromToronto's urban tree canopy?
Jan Sumner (01:44):
Well, I actually have a lot of trees in my
neighborhood, so we do feel itLike if you go along some of
these streets with all the bigtrees, especially when the sun's
over top and in the sunshine itjust it really hits you, and
then all of a sudden you'reunderneath the trees and it's
like ah, relief.
And if there's grass underneathor there's other vegetation as
(02:06):
well that you can, you can feelthat cooling and in the morning
walks and things like that, youget the um, the dew on the trees
and on the vegetationunderneath and that definitely
feels so much better.
Kaya Adleman (02:19):
Yeah, I went for a run earlier this week and I was
purposefully picking out theplaces the sides of the road
where there were trees, and itdefinitely did make a difference
in this weather.
Jan Sumner (02:33):
Yeah, I had dinner with a friend of mine the other
night down in the very southernpart of Toronto near Union
Station and his walk.
He had to go, you know, a fairdistance north and he was saying
he was going to pick hisstreets to maximize the tree
coverage and he'd already donethe math.
(02:53):
He'd already figured out allthe ways in which he could find
a path that got him some trees.
So, yeah, I think people aredrawn to it out of necessity,
but also because it's just muchmore pleasant the bird song, etc
.
Big birders love the trees.
Kim's going to start thisepisode off talking about how
(03:16):
Toronto has received anotherTree City of the World Award,
which is great, and I want toalso stress in terms of laying
this out.
We've talked to Kim, who's atthe City of Toronto.
It's, yes, it's one of ourlargest cities, but it's an
example 11 other cities aroundthe world who were chosen under
(03:47):
the United Nations EnvironmentProgram to think about all the
other projects that they couldbe doing and learn from each
other, etc.
Etc.
And I was asked to speak at aconference I think it was over a
year ago now and Vancouver hadbeen positioning itself as a
sponge city and thinking abouthow green infrastructure, which
is what vegetation and plantsand trees are called, can help
with droughts and flooding andheat.
(04:08):
And other cities have the samekind of mindset, as I mentioned
London, ontario, but I knowEdmonton and many other cities
across Canada are thinking inthis regard.
We just chose Toronto becausewe had access and we could have
chosen many other cities toprofile.
So this is just an example ofhow urban forestry can or is
(04:33):
improving the natural world inand around where most Canadians
live.
Kaya Adleman (04:39):
Yeah, so thanks, kim, and make sure to check out
the first part of our interview,if you haven't already, and I'm
excited to to learn more abouturban forestry did you see our
news release on earth day?
Jan Sumner (04:57):
sorry, no, no, no, I did not see that, but you go
ahead with your news release onearth day.
Please tell us all about it.
Kim Statham (05:03):
So I was so pleased .
I've spent lots of wonderful,wonderful Earth Days.
This one was extra special.
We announced that Toronto hasjust received its fifth
consecutive Tree City of theWorld Award, awarded by the Food
(05:24):
and Agricultural Organizationof the United Nations and the
Arbor Day Foundation.
I was so pleased to join DeputyMayor McKelvey and our General
Manager of Parks, forestry andRecreation, howie Dayton, to
raise a flag at ScarboroughCivic Centre to honour this.
We're really proud this is veryreflective of the program, of
(05:48):
the team, of the work that we doand so pleased to join all of
the other cities that wererecognised as well.
Five years ago, there were 59cities recognised and in 20, for
2023, 200, roughly 200 citieswere recognized.
(06:09):
This is a fantastic network oftree cities around the world
that know what they have, thathave plans for their protection
and their expansion and makeefforts to celebrate with
communities you know in their,in their neighborhoods.
Kaya Adleman (06:35):
Do you want to talk a little bit about the
United Nations EnvironmentProgram?
Do.
Kim Statham (06:41):
Yes, so we were really pleased to have Toronto
City Council support to apply toa program late last year, late
2023.
This is a program calledGeneration Restoration, being
(07:03):
organized by the United NationsEnvironment Program and ICLEI,
and we found out late last yearthat Toronto was chosen as a
role model city.
We joined one of nine otherrole model cities around the
world and we joined about 11pilot cities around the world.
(07:29):
The premise of this program isto promote ecological
restoration and to facilitateknowledge exchange between
cities.
We know that and we've talkedabout this already that
subnational governments have ahuge role to play in
biodiversity conservation andnature-based solutions.
(07:50):
Cities have impacts, but theyalso have incredible support,
funding programs to address allof these things.
You know all of all of thesethings and it it's it's really a
network where model cities willserve, as you know, champions
(08:10):
of restoration, with peer topeer exchanges, contributing
knowledge, development of toolsand, and you know, discussions
to look at how and what rolecities play in global
biodiversity conservation.
We were very excited to bechosen as one of the role model
(08:35):
cities.
We're absolutely thrilled thatMontreal has also since joined
those ranks.
So those are the two Canadiancities which are representing
through this program, bothcities with huge commitment to
biodiversity Of course Montrealhosted COP 15 last year and
(09:00):
within the UN decade onecosystem restoration, these are
conversations we need to behaving and, again, not just, you
know, connecting.
You know.
I love the conversation we'vehad today.
We've talked about, well, howdo we connect with local
municipalities, how do weconnect, you know, federally and
provincially, and this is aprogram that Toronto is involved
(09:22):
in, that's connecting citiesglobally.
We have a lot to learn, we havea lot to share and it's a
two-year program that we're so,so thrilled to be supporting.
Jan Sumner (09:36):
Because I think you attended something in was it
Paris?
And not going to give away yoursecrets, but I wonder, are
there some of the other citiesthat you've already taken note
of and you've kind of gone?
Oh, I really like what they doon that, or I'm interested in
(09:57):
that and can you give us maybe asneak preview before you've
completed your two years.
Kim Statham (10:03):
So when I attended the first workshop in December,
I filled up three notebooks ofideas and inspiration and I
think what struck me the most ishow similar we are to other
cities in a global environment.
(10:26):
Quezon City, Philippines, youknow, have mangrove forests.
I don't have.
We don't have mangrove forestshere, but the role that they
play related to protectingcities from, you know, ocean
(10:46):
currents and flooding, floodrisk is very similar to how our
river valleys here in Torontoserve as flood conveyance.
I was so impressed by Cape Town,South Africa, and the work that
they're doing with, with theirvery unique invasive species
(11:07):
species I've never heard ofbefore but in terms of the same
challenges that we have inToronto with, with invasive
species, with managementtechniques, with, you know,
public support and funding to toaddress that, address that
(11:27):
challenge.
I think it was said, their cityhas the most biodiversity, it's
the most biodiverse city in theworld, and just it was so
inspiring to meet and to learnwhat they're doing.
To meet and to learn whatthey're doing.
(11:49):
The other city that I was soimpressed by was Kanazawa City
in Japan, and what they broughtto the table was preserving
biodiversity by supportingcultural samurai gardens, how to
(12:31):
care and prune and sustainthese gardens with tourism and
younger generations that thatmay travel and come and have an
opportunity to learn and sustainthat knowledge.
So it so, that was so inspiring.
Jan Sumner (12:47):
Wow, that's amazing when cities get a chance to
connect right, because usuallyit's countries talking to each
other, sometimes it's provincesspeaking to certain US states
kind of thing, or maybe aMexican state, but it's not as
common where you're kind of inthe same room as a bunch of
other cities who are maybestruggling with the same kinds
(13:08):
of things Toronto is strugglingwith.
Kim Statham (13:10):
And one of the takeaways.
Again, we're at the beginningof this network and this program
, but what we're looking tofigure out together is financing
how do we globally financenature-based solutions?
It is a very interestingconversation because we and when
(13:32):
I say we, I mean differentcities, different levels of
government, collect differentdata, we monitor our natural
resources in different ways andso and we have different funding
models or lack thereof, youknow entirely.
(13:54):
And so this is going to be areally interesting conversation
that I think will benefitinternational level
conversations, nationalgovernments and subnational
governments on again, we havecollective goals.
How do we measure collectively?
(14:16):
How do we finance collectively?
And, you know, make thosecollective decisions, if you
will, all for that common goalof biodiversity protection and
ecosystem restoration, thatcommon goal of biodiversity
protection and ecosystemrestoration.
Jan Sumner (14:35):
Well, I don't want to neglect the fact that Canada
does have its own organizingframework for cities with the
Federation of CanadianMunicipalities, but getting a
chance to learn from aninternational scale what other
countries and cities andcultures are doing in their
municipalities, it's reallyquite an incredible opportunity.
(14:56):
So I'm glad that Toronto's atthat table and Montreal so those
are two great cities in Canada.
We now have qualified to beable to run commercials on our
podcast.
This may not seem like a goodthing for some people, but for
us at the Clear Cut, it's a verygood thing.
It means that you, our public,are now downloading over a
(15:20):
thousand copies of each episodea month, which is fantastic, and
it puts us into a new bracketwhere people want to actually
advertise on the podcast.
We are going to do our very bestto make sure that the ads that
run on the podcast are somethingthat may be of relevance or of
interest to you, and hope thatyou can listen to these ads and
(15:40):
see them as a marker of successand your faith in the podcast.
So thank you so much forlistening to the Clear Cut.
I know that, kaya, and Iappreciate it so very, very much
, thank you.
The clear cut.
I know that, kaya, and Iappreciate it.
So very, very much Thank you.
I know that I'm very proud ofthe trees and the canopy cover
(16:05):
and certainly during thepandemic it was the only place
to be was in one of the cityparks.
I mean, I go there quite oftenanyway but it was just you could
see people's relief just beingin a place where they could at
least nod to each other, say hiand be, out there in nature.
It was really quite fantastic.
And of course, we have a lot ofwildlife in and around the city
of Toronto as well, which takeadvantage of all of the places
(16:27):
that we call forests and treecanopy and you know things like
that, so it makes Toronto a verybusy place as well and you get
a chance to really see nature.
Kim Statham (16:37):
I think there is nothing more spectacular than
you know.
Driving along one of theravines, I can think of York
Mills and Yonge Street there wasa bit of a backup but I
couldn't understand why.
But I did when I crawled up intraffic and deer grazing just
off the road.
You see them along the DonValley Parkway in the Lower Don
(17:00):
Parkland.
I live in a downtown ward and Icame home one day to having an
opossum that's right, an opossumnapping on my back deck.
He might not have been nappingbefore we got there, but we
certainly startled him when wecame in from from school and
work.
So he might have, uh,immediately played, played that
(17:22):
uh that dead card but it's, um,it's.
It's so important to understandthat we share, you know, this
space and those are amazingindicator species to know or to
really reflect or speak to thehealth of the natural world that
(17:46):
we have here in the city.
It's a perfect time of year.
We have migratory birds comingback.
I walk the dog in the morningsand there's a Carolina wren
every year for a few weeks that,you know, is making its way
through and stops in in myneighborhood, and that's that's
what's really incredible aboutthis network that we have is
(18:08):
taking stocks, taking notice, um, not just appreciating you know
the shade that trees provide asyou walk down the street, but
maybe the scent of their flowers, the birds that are.
You know that call them home.
You know the other wildlifethat we might see if you live,
(18:30):
work or play in one of Toronto'slarger natural areas.
It's really quite incredible.
Jan Sumner (18:37):
It's good that you remind me of that because I
remember a few years ago I washelping the federal government
design its plan for how toprotect 30% of Canada by 2030.
And as we were doing that andthinking through that Canada by
2030.
And as we were doing that andthinking through that and it was
(18:58):
to motivate provinces andencourage Indigenous-led
protection and get to that 30%by 2030.
And I would say that a numberof people got lost in that 30%
and thought, oh well, that's notgoing to include me because
we're in a city, we don't havethat much land we can't.
Oh well, that's not going toinclude me because we're in a
city, we don't have that muchland, we can't do a big
protection, it's not going toadd a percentage point to
Canada's target, etc.
(19:20):
And I know that municipalitieswere not entirely left out, but
largely left out of thatequation because it was really
trying to get the bigpercentages.
And I think we could have donea better job, and I count myself
in and amongst the people whodidn't necessarily get it all
the way right.
I mean, we did move the needleon protection, there's no
(19:41):
question.
But one of the things that Ithink that we forgot or that we
don't focus on yet is thatgetting to 30% by 2030, this
target, that is international,is there because we actually
want to protect ecosystems andmake sure that they're thriving
and healthy, and we often think,okay, well, it's the site of an
(20:06):
ecosystem.
You can draw a boundary aroundit, it's geographically located,
but the reality is that many ofthese species that you were
just mentioning, like, forexample, monarch butterflies,
are very important to people whoare living in cities.
We see the monarch butterflygardens being put up.
We also understand that birdsare dependent on having all
(20:28):
different kinds of places wherethey can land and feed or rest
on their migratory paths.
So if we go about the businessof, let's say, protecting a
large area, like we've beenworking on in Hudson Bay and
James Bay, which is part ofCanada's boreal forest, to
protect all those areas whereit's like a big bug stew up
there, and people often say,well, you know why do they go to
(20:50):
the boreal?
And they say, oh well, becauseit's where they, it's their
breeding grounds, and I'm like,no, they go up to feast on bugs.
They just love the bugs upthere, so they go all the way up
there.
They're feasting on the bugs.
But then they got to fly southand some of them are going as
far south as Antarctica.
So where are they going to stop?
That's a heck of a journey.
Like are you?
You could maybe find a farmer'sfield, maybe you can get a tree
(21:14):
along the way.
But some of our cities, likethose ravines that you talk
about, those are flyways.
Those are places where birdsjust go through them and they
launch themselves out across theGreat Lake Lake, ontario, and
then go through the US and thenthey're down to South America,
et cetera.
But imagine if we didn't havecities like Toronto or many
other cities that had incrediblevegetation cover and tree cover
(21:38):
that those birds could findrespite and food along their
journeys, both migrating southand then coming back north again
.
So it's an important part ofthat 30 by 30, because if the
goal is to get to healthy,thriving ecosystems, we need to
think about the migratorypatterns of birds, for sure for
monarch butterflies, for manyothers, and if we don't, then
(22:02):
we're missing a beat, becauseyou can't just protect an area
in the north and one in thesouth and say good luck, hope
you make it.
It's not going to happen.
Kim Statham (22:11):
And isn't that?
You know, exactly what we learnin, you know, ecosystem
management 101 is that we cannothave these isolated patches of
habitat.
You need ecological corridors,both visually and on the ground,
for migrating species.
And in Toronto, our ravinesystem, by its nature, is north
(22:32):
to south, all of the headwaters,all of the rivers that run
through the city and in LakeOntario, and so you know, when
we're looking at, how do wecollectively look at protected
lands, does it matter if it's aravine in Toronto?
Does it matter if it's Canada'sfirst urban national park, in
(22:55):
Rouge National Urban Park?
It doesn't.
To the bird that is migrating,to monarchs that come up to
roost and rest and to seek, youknow, habitat, food, shelter.
And that's what I think isreally interesting and where the
, you know, opportunities remainin terms of this collaboration
(23:18):
and in terms of, you know,federal, provincial, municipal
goals towards biodiversityprotection, ecosystem services,
nature-based solutions.
Nature-based solutions.
(23:40):
Nature is a collection of thesespaces and that's what we need
to turn our minds to, whathappens, you know, just outside
our boundaries and how can wecollectively reach goals which
are common goals you've spoken afew times about the.
Jan Sumner (24:01):
you know that's the border of toronto and that's and
and I imagine you're alsohaving conversations just
outside the border of toronto,because those ecosystems are,
whether it's the headwaters forthe Don or the Humber, those
headwaters are elsewhere, and sowe have to actually be working
together with othermunicipalities as they think
through their plans as well.
How does that work for a citylike Toronto?
(24:21):
How do you go about that?
Kim Statham (24:26):
Well, I think initiatives like 30 by 30 um
kind of are the vehicle to havethose conversations so of
interest.
Of the six rivers that runthrough toronto on their on
their path down to lake ontario,only one has its headwaters
within our municipal boundariesand that's highland, which is
(24:50):
right in between the Rouge andthe Don.
And so land use planningdecisions that happen in
headwaters have an impactthrough the city and that's why
it's important that we work withconservation authorities in
this area.
We work with Toronto and RegionConservation Authority to
(25:13):
consider those impacts.
You know I've talked a lotabout our goals and about the
great things across Toronto'surban forest.
You know, one of the things thatis a challenge that we see
we're seeing trends from our twotree canopy studies is that
loss of permeable space is theloss of a plantable area.
(25:36):
Cities need to grow, housing iscritical and every city, you
know, needs to and has housingplans.
There is a way to balancehousing with nature, with tree
canopy as trees being one of thecritical elements of livable
(25:58):
cities.
And so, you know, as we looktoward the future on, you know,
opportunities to expand, we verymuch keep in mind.
Well, where are we seeing thechallenges and where are we
losing ground, literally andfiguratively?
Jan Sumner (26:15):
I do want to ask a question also about ecological
corridors, and I'm going to askyou if you have anything to do
with the Meadoway project.
Sure yeah, I can speak to that,okay, yeah, let's do Meadoway.
So let's talk about Meadoway.
I'm talking about all of thefavorite places that I like to
go.
So the Meadoway is basicallythe hydro corridor across quite
(26:39):
a big swath of Toronto andthey're they're returning it to
being a Meadoway, right, yeah,okay, maybe you can talk about
that, kim.
That'd be great.
Kim Statham (26:44):
So you know, we have natural ecological
corridors and we have human madeecological corridors, and the
Meadoway is a fantastic projectled by the Toronto and Region
Conservation Authority withamazing support from the Weston
Family Foundation.
I've been grateful to be onsome walks and some openings of
(27:08):
the different reaches anddifferent areas of the trail.
It is so important from both anecological perspective but also
an accessibility perspectiveand getting people into places
to experience the benefits oftrees and nature.
One of the things that I'm mostexcited about the Meadoway is
(27:30):
what it connects, so not justcommunities and the people of
Toronto, but key ecologicalareas.
In the future, the Meadowaywill connect Rouge National
Urban Park right into the heartof downtown Toronto, into the
(27:50):
Don Valley and into our ravinesystem.
When we think of corridors andtravel networks, you know,
looking to improve options forcycling and walking and
connectivity in our, you know,natural, more natural spaces is
so important and this is a key,key project.
(28:14):
Imagine, you know, living in acondo with no outdoor, private
outdoor space and being able tohop on your bike, get on the
Dawn Trail, take the Meadowayall the way out to to Rouge
National Urban Park.
Would be, would be justincredible, and that's the
vision and that's the goal.
(28:35):
We're really excited about it.
Jan Sumner (28:39):
Yeah, I don't live that far from Rouge National
Urban Park and the WildlandsLeague office is down at
Richmond and Spadina.
And I remember a number of timesI would, and this is when I was
just cycling through the TaylorMassey Creek area and then
going down there to but comeupon a big buck deer sitting
(29:02):
there early in the morning andI've also cycled the other route
which is going from here toRouge National Urban Park now,
and that is, you know, it's yes,it's underneath hydro towers,
but it is breathtaking how bigit is and the number of birds
(29:22):
that are in there, and they'remeadow birds, right Like you
could hear them sitting in theground of birds that are in
there.
And then and they're meadowbirds, right like you could, you
could hear them sitting in theground.
They're not in trees, they'resitting in the grasses and
they're just like humming alongand the crickets are going and
it feels like the, the meadowsof my childhood.
Um, you know, it's that thatkind of very uh, in the heat of
the summer, that just sort ofclicking, clacking sound, and
(29:45):
it's just, yeah, it's justmagical.
And so being able to get onyour bike and ride through that
is amazing and I think it willreally help in terms of the
mental health of people in thecity, but also in terms of the
wildlife, like all those flyingcreatures and the mammal
movement that goes through thereas well.
Right, it's going to be reallyquite spectacular.
Kim Statham (30:06):
So, yeah, and Toronto also has a pollinator
strategy and start from theground.
We need those places, we needthe space and we need the
different species to supportthose pollinators.
And these are, when we think ofthe makeup of Toronto's natural
areas, from intact forest toedge forest, to riparian zones,
(30:33):
to rivers, to wetlands, rightdown to a waterfront, and you
know that dynamic shoreline itis.
You know we're very lucky tohave this resource and the
wildlife that it supports and wevery much have, you know, can
(30:57):
go hand in hand with theevolution of our city.
Jan Sumner (31:02):
The evolution of our city, the evolution of how
people live, where people live,and you know this critical green
infrastructure that really isnecessary and I want to say a
big thank you to Kim for walkingus through what happens on
(31:24):
urban forestry, and we probablyhaven't covered it all, but I do
know that there are manymunicipalities across Canada who
are working on urban forestry.
They might have vegetationtargets.
I grew up in a city calledLondon, ontario, which is called
the Forest City, or that's whatthey called it.
So still today you can gothrough town and see many
(31:47):
businesses called Forest Cityand insert whatever business it
does.
But yeah, so it's prettyincredible that many Canadian
cities identify with ravinesystems or they might have big
natural areas.
I know Edmonton has a ravinesystem through it and we've got
floodplains that exist in othercities in the prairies and in
(32:11):
southern Alberta.
And then, of course, vancouverhas that incredible Stanley Park
and Halifax has amazing areasas well.
So right across this countryour cities are full of amazing
wildlife, vegetation and treesand it's so great to be able to
just dive in a little bit onwhat's happening with the city
(32:33):
that I live in and getting tobecause Kim and I know each
other getting the chance to divein on what's happening in the
city of Toronto and how urbanforestry works because it's a
big part of everyday people'slives.
Kaya Adleman (32:47):
Yeah, I might also just want to add that the
majority of Canadians live incities, so what's happening in
our own hometowns, our own urbanareas, is pretty important, and
it's something that people canget involved in pretty easily, I
would say, or more easily thanat the federal government level
(33:07):
per se.
Kim Statham (33:08):
Absolutely.
I mean people experience treesat a neighborhood level.
It's a human scale.
You see that tree grow, thetree I planted in the backyard.
I have seen that and we, youknow you have that connection.
I think that, um, there are somany good programs for people to
(33:30):
to get involved if they'reinterested.
Toronto urban forestry hastalks and tours.
We have a recent partnershipwith tor Public Library.
Trees and Books it's about asgood as it gets.
We do hands-on stewardship,volunteer planting events.
We partner with organizationsthat do third-party or
(33:54):
community-led, I should say,events as well.
There's so many ways to getinvolved.
Events as well.
There's so many ways to getinvolved.
(34:18):
I can name a few if it'shelpful.
Toronto urban forestry has anumber of different ways to to
engage, whether it's virtual,whether it's in person, whether
you want to learn more orwhether you want to get your
hands dirty.
We have a very popular eventcount, very populated event
(34:40):
calendar spring and fall, andstewardship through the summers.
So we can put the website formore information in your show
notes later.
Jan Sumner (34:52):
And I was just going to say for all of our listeners
if you're feeling your city'sleft out, we'd be more than
happy to have a conversation onair with anybody else who wants
to talk and rave about theincredible job they're doing on
urban forestry for their city,because we really stand by those
who are doing the hard work oftaking care of our city's trees
and vegetation.
It's very important I know thatkai and I both benefit from, or
(35:16):
in montreal and me in torontofrom how our folks inside the
city are taking care of thenatural areas, and a big shout
out and kudos to all of them andto anybody who's working in a
city context or a municipalityor township or whatever you want
to call it, because it is howCanadians are connecting to the
natural world and it, it, itcreates the very foundation upon
(35:39):
which our love grows for ournatural world.
So, thank you, thank you, thankyou, okay.
Kaya Adleman (35:47):
Yeah, I couldn't say I don't think I can follow
that up, um, but yeah, I I I dothink that I'm really glad that
we had this conversation.
Thanks, kim.
I really did learn um a lot andI am really really impressed
with all the work that you'vebeen doing, and you know as
(36:08):
someone from Montreal, there's alot of shade no pun intended
towards Toronto, but makes meappreciate the city that much
more.
So thank you.
Kim Statham (36:19):
Well, if I can say on behalf of civil servants
everywhere, it is our absolutehonor and pleasure to be working
in service of urban forests.
I am so grateful for the timeand the conversation and thank
you, Kaya and Janet.
This has been a real pleasure.
Jan Sumner (36:46):
Well, kaya, that wraps another podcast where I
have learned so very much, evenif I thought I knew stuff.
I learned so very much.
I didn't know that toronto hada pollinator strategy oh, yeah,
I didn't know that either no,very important.
Yeah, we didn't so that was cool.
(37:07):
And then all the programs thatshe talks about.
We will actually include those,because she gives a lot of
examples throughout the podcastof other organizations that
they're working with, where youcan get um free trees, where you
can have conversations.
And again, I know that thisexists in other places.
I recently did a conferencedown in London, ontario, where
(37:28):
the city was present and theywere providing free trees to
people who wanted to sign up andget a tree.
Actually, you could walk awayright from the conference the
Grow Wild, go Wild conference.
That was put on by CarolinianCanada.
So check out in your local cityto see if they have some kind
(37:48):
of program like that.
I don't have a guarantee, butcertainly anybody who's
listening in Toronto you cantake it from Kim that there is a
free tree possibility in yourfuture.
Kaya Adleman (37:58):
Yeah, it's very cool.
Jan Sumner (37:59):
Yeah, Any other major takeaways for you Kaya.
Kaya Adleman (38:02):
Oh yeah, definitely.
Well, I think for me, theUnited Nations Environment
Program, or UNEP program, wasreally cool to learn about.
I think seeing thecollaboration among like
subnational actors to worktowards like meeting our climate
and biodiversity goals wasreally interesting.
You know, I think informationsharing in these programs across
(38:23):
cities in the global context issuper.
All of these initiatives aresuper critical to meeting those
(38:46):
goals that we have outlined for2030 and 2050.
And, as someone who lives in acity, these concepts seem very
accessible to me.
Like you were saying and Kimwas saying, there's ways to get
involved and see what urbanforestry initiatives are
happening locally.
See what urban forestryinitiatives are happening
(39:06):
locally.
When we talk about forestry onthe podcast and forest
management on the podcast, a lotof times these concepts seem
very far removed from us becausethey seem to be happening in
very rural places where a lot ofpeople who listen to the
podcast might not necessarilyhave direct access to.
And one of my other takeawayswas I was connecting a lot of
(39:31):
the themes from this interviewwith Kim to our episodes with
Harvey Locke where we talkedabout the three phases of the
nature needs half movement, soprotecting already intact places
, creating networks of natureconnectivity for areas partially
disturbed by industrialactivities and then restoring
already disturbed areas, and sothis is kind of the restoration
piece and when we talked aboutthe Meadoway, a bit of the
(39:55):
connectivity piece as well.
Jan Sumner (39:58):
Ooh thread in the needle there Kaya.
Just thread in the needle,that's awesome.
Kaya Adleman (40:02):
I love that I have my dartboard with the peg and
the string.
Jan Sumner (40:07):
That's fantastic.
The other takeaway I don't haveanything nearly as articulate
as that, but the other thingthat I wanted to mention was
just how she highlighted thebenefits of how they have
improved.
She comes from a very Westernscience training and now they've
(40:28):
added and learned from theIndigenous knowledge and the
incorporation of Indigenousknowledge, especially with the
prescribed burn in High Park, sothat is very interesting to me.
That is a real example of howthe world is actually changing
as we start to open our mindsand our hearts and work with
indigenous people, and how webenefit, how the world benefits
(40:50):
and how the practices that weare engaged in all change for
the better.
So that was really good and ofcourse, I just I love having a
conversation about all theplaces that we go and we walk
and she highlights the manyparks that she likes and for me
it reminded my in my backyardwas the, the ravine, with the uh
(41:13):
, the Don Valley, and so I usedto walk through there all the
time.
I had a dog at the time andused to walk through that place
and I I just loved it.
So, yeah, it was great torevisit that and think about the
trees of the city I live in.
If you like listening to theClear Cut and want to keep the
content coming, support the show.
It would mean a lot to Kaya andI.
(41:34):
The link to do so will be inthe episode description below.
Kaya Adleman (41:38):
You can also become a supporter by going to
our website atwwwwildlandsleagueorg.
Slash the clear cut and alsomake sure to leave us a review
on your favorite podcaststreaming platform.
It would really help thepodcast and stay tuned for new
episodes by following us onsocial media.
Jan Sumner (41:59):
That's at Wildlands League on Instagram, twitter and
Facebook or LinkedIn, of course.
Kaya Adleman (42:06):
See you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.