July 30, 2025 • 64 mins
What happens when childhood trauma becomes your greatest teacher? Brandon Held's life story reads like a manual on resilience -- growing up in poverty, living with an abusive, alcoholic stepfather, losing his infant daughter, multiple failed marriages, surviving a suicide attempt, and emerging not just intact but mentally resilient and determined to help others.
Brandon's candid conversation reveals how he broke generational cycles of addiction and abuse. His military service was a good starting point in life while also exposing him to leadership - both exemplary and toxic - that shaped his understanding of human connection.
The most powerful moments come when Brandon discusses his relationships. After three failed marriages and numerous betrayals, he learned to establish boundaries and recognize genuine connection. This clarity came at a tremendous cost, including a suicide attempt following a devastating period where he simultaneously lost his wife, children, job, and home while burdened by crushing debt.
Where to find Brandon: https://linktr.ee/brandonheld
_____________________________________
Resources from This Episode:
The Happiness Hypothesis: https://amzn.to/43fzkkw
As an Amazon Partner, our podcast earns from qualified purchases at no extra cost to you.
________________________________________________________________
Where to Find Us:
Web: https://clutteredpath.com/
Patreon: https://patreon.com/clutteredpath
Questions/Comments: feedback@clutteredpath.com
_________________________________________________________________
Follow us on Social Media:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Todd (00:00):
This is the Cluttered Path , a compass for midlife.
He spent years dealing withchildhood trauma I mean, we're
talking pain that leads a lot ofpeople to harm themselves.
But as an adult, he didn't justlearn how to cope.
(00:20):
He found a way to turn hisscars into some of his greatest
strengths, and this story willmake you rethink everything you
know about overcoming strugglesand healing.
Today I'm talking to BrandonHeld about his life story and
the path that led him tofulfillment as an adult.
Brandon, welcome to the show.
Brandon (00:36):
Thank you for having me .
I appreciate it.
Good to have you here, man.
Todd (00:40):
So before we get into the discussion, we'll start with a
brief bio on Brandon.
He grew up without a father inan alcoholic, drug-fueled
environment.
He watched his mother just getconstantly abused by his stepdad
.
He escaped that life by joiningthe military twice and he
actually went to college twice.
He's been divorced three timesand is presently on his fourth
(01:00):
marriage.
He has three sons and he'sworked as a bartender, a
personal trainer, salesman,government contractor, and he
even worked in the aerospaceindustry.
He's been suicidal and evenattempted suicide.
Today, brandon's mission isworking with people who've
experienced trauma and difficultcircumstances.
Now his goal is to help themgrow, heal and live meaningful
(01:22):
lives.
And he's also a longtime anddiehard Ohio State Buckeyes fan
and he hosts the podcast Life isCrazy.
Brandon (01:29):
And you can add one more podcast to that Buckeye
Battle Cry.
So yeah, I just started thatit's a new podcast.
So now I'm a host of twopodcasts.
Todd (01:39):
Excellent, man, that is cool.
Yeah, so we'll just dump rightin.
Man, I'll just get started withthe questions.
So let's start with yourchildhood man.
Can you tell us about that andhow that shaped you?
Brandon (01:48):
Yeah, it's one of those childhoods where I grew up in a
small town in Ohio.
It was my norm, right, it wasnormal to me, quote unquote
normal to me.
I knew it was different thaneveryone else's, but I didn't
feel traumatic at the time.
But, yeah, I grew up poor.
By the time my mother had me at16, by the time she was 18, she
(02:12):
had me and my sister, and nowshe was a single mom at 18 years
old.
So you can imagine she wasn'tprepared for that or a life like
that, and so she, of course,was finding a way to survive and
be supportive.
And she met my stepdad, who isthe father of my brother, who's
(02:34):
10 years younger than I am, andhe was an alcoholic and a biker
and he was just abusive.
He would beat her up and allthat stuff in front of me, and
we didn't have food a lot oftimes.
Some days my only meal was thefree lunch that I got at school.
So, yeah, I'm six foot one andI was like 150, 155 pounds at 17
(02:58):
years old when I finally didget out of the house.
So I was super scrawny and,yeah, I just knew it was an
environment that I wanted to bein and I needed to get out of it
as soon as I could.
Todd (03:09):
Oh man, that's rough.
People talk about substanceabuse and they kind of look at
people and they couch it interms of they almost call them
victims.
You know, but it's what I sawgrowing up with people that were
just wrapped up in thatsubstance abuse man, these
weren't nice people, man, it wasbad.
Brandon (03:29):
Yeah, and you know, alcohol, drugs that's poison,
it's toxic to your body, right?
So whatever your, whatever yourown brain is already doing to
yourself, you know cause?
My sister and my brotheractually followed in the
footsteps of the rest of myfamily and they became
alcoholics and drug addicts, andit's the victimhood mentality
(03:52):
that led them down that path.
Oh, I'm from this crappy family, this is the life I'm going to
have, because this is where I amfrom, and I would always look
at him and be like hello, I'myour older brother, I've never
drank, I've never smoked, I'venever done any drugs.
I'm college educated.
So what do you mean?
(04:13):
This is the life you have tohave.
You don't have to have thatlife.
You chose that life.
Todd (04:19):
Right, it's like crabs in a bucket.
In many cases it's a viciouscycle, man, and people kind of
look at the poor, as you know,talking about the noble poor in
these like honorable senses, andI'm just like, no, I didn't
really see that.
Being poor, it stinks, it'sembarrassing, it hurts, and just
(04:39):
because someone's poor doesn'tmean they're a nice person.
So we have our choices, yeah.
Brandon (04:50):
Well, it's actually usually the opposite, but we are
fortunate, right.
We live in the greatest countryin the world.
We just do.
I know we have our faults and Iknow things you know, as older
men, are trending in the wrongdirection in this country and
could be better.
But we still live in a countrywhere you can come from nothing
and still just get out of thatand break those curses and
(05:12):
generational cycles and not onlyturn your life around but turn
your kids' lives around andtheir kids, and we're very lucky
.
You can't do that in everycountry.
Todd (05:23):
Yeah, I mean my brother-in-law.
He's Cuban, he grew up undercommunism and he escaped.
He had to get help to get outbut he escaped.
And man, I just love immigrantstories.
Man, people come here and justdo well, because they're like
it's like Disneyland, it's likeall this stuff.
But we're kind of used to itand a lot of times we just get
(05:46):
bitter and resentful man and wedon't really take advantage of
what's here for us.
Brandon (05:51):
Yeah, and a lot of people look for that free
handout.
You know they want to have to dothe work that it takes to get
to where you need to be Right.
Yeah, sure, some people areborn with the silver spoon.
Their parents and theirgrandparents and all that they
(06:13):
had already did all that hardwork and they made their lives a
little easier so they had aneasier walk into success in life
.
But luckily in America you canwork hard and you can get
educated or you can become abusiness person.
Whatever it is that you havethe talent to do, you can turn
that talent into success in life.
And a lot of people just don'twant to do the work.
(06:35):
They just want things handed tothem, right yeah.
Todd (06:39):
And when you get into that place and I saw it, I grew up
poor, I mean, I grew up intrailer parks and stuff into
that place and I saw it, I grewup poor, I mean, I grew up in
trailer parks and stuff.
And when you get into thatplace where you're bitter and
you've just been told thatyou've been put in this place by
other people and you've beengiven an enemy to hate, when you
get to that point, man, it isso hard to change that mentality
and get out of that.
And it takes people interveningfor you with you to get you out
(07:04):
of that mentality.
Because I had it, man, I hatedrich people and pretty much
anybody that lived in a houseattached to the ground.
They were rich to me.
Brandon (07:13):
Man, I just never bought into it.
I just had this.
I don't know if I was arrogantor stupid, maybe a little bit of
both, but just when I was young, I just always said this isn't
the life I'm going to live, likewhat I see going on around me
this alcoholism, this drug use,this you know life sucks.
(07:35):
You know I hate work andgetting up every morning because
life sucks.
Right, I knew I was going tohave a different life.
I didn't know how, you know, Ididn't know what was going to be
different, like how I was goingto be different than them.
But I knew it was going to bedifferent and I just never
bought into it.
Oh man, that's good stuff, dude.
Todd (07:57):
I mean because I knew you had those voices out there that
were trying to pull you in andjust go.
Yeah, you know those richpeople.
Brandon (08:06):
Every day my uncle would say every day life sucks,
I hate this life, life sucks.
Every day he would say thatshit.
And you know I'm a kid, right,he doesn't want to hear what I
have to say.
But even then in my mind I waslike, well, it doesn't have to.
You know it sucks becausethat's the life you live, that's
(08:27):
the life you lead, but itdoesn't have to.
And I felt that as a kid.
But you couldn't tell him that.
He just believed what hebelieved.
Todd (08:38):
I saw a lot of that growing up.
You go through a trailer parkand you just see people a lot of
dads sitting there with no jobsand just drinking all day long
and then they're abusive.
They're angry and that's howthey justify the abuse.
Man, they're so angry andbitter and so they just take it
out on the kids, the wife, yeah.
Brandon (08:59):
In their defense.
They don't know how to act anyother way.
And I'm not saying that's okayat all, because it's not.
But part of using drugs andalcohol is you never learn how
to cope and deal with things inlife right.
You've always relied on somesubstance to help you cope and
deal right, and in some casesthe substance just makes you a
(09:23):
bigger monster.
So you might be coping, butyou're a monster to everyone
else that's around you and it'sjust an ugly vicious cycle that
happens to people and they justdon't get out of it.
They just don't know how tobreak out of it.
Todd (09:37):
Right, that's the generational stuff, man.
Because they never were taught,they didn't have a parent that
sat with them and taught themhow to interact and be social
and treat others well, and sothey grow up not knowing how to
do that.
They're just kind ofemotionally stunted and they
don't know how to do it, and sothen you get the bitterness and
(09:59):
resentment, and it's just acycle, man, that's the right
phrase for it.
Brandon (10:04):
Or they don't even just don't know how to deal with
problems and stressfulsituations, like my brother, you
know, 10 years younger than me.
He's a good person at heart.
Right Inside he's a good person, but when something negative
happens in life, he just loseshis shit, like he just doesn't
know how to handle it.
(10:24):
Right now he's a smoker, he's,he's deals with alcoholism, he
has this bouts of you know, he'san alcoholic, and then he gets
clean for a little while andthen something really bad
happens and he falls back intoit.
Right, he's in and out of thatcycle.
And it's not because he's a baddude and he's actually a really
(10:47):
intelligent dude.
He just doesn't know how tocope with crisis in difficult
situations, right.
Todd (10:54):
Yeah, that happens, man, it's yeah.
But now would you say therewere people along the way that
kind of mentored you at allwhile you were coming up, or
what people along the way thatkind of mentored you at all
while you were coming up or what.
Brandon (11:12):
No man, that's why I'm such an anomaly to my own family
.
Right, they would even joke andsay that I was adopted and
stuff, because I was just sodifferent than everyone else.
I just always had this positiveoutlook on life that I just
felt like life was going to begreat for me and I'm not saying
it always has been, because I'vehad struggles, right.
And part of having thatpositive outlook is when life
(11:36):
wasn't great and I was in thepits and I was like, oh shit,
life isn't what I thought it wasgoing to be, and that's what
led at one point, to my suicideattempt.
Todd (11:47):
Yeah, I read.
There's a book HappinessHypothesis.
We've talked about it inprevious episodes, james and I
Basically scientific research.
They came out and said 50% ofyour happiness is associated
with genetics.
So your temperament and youroutlook on life and stuff like
that 50% of that is your genes.
What that means is some peopleare miserable, they're just like
(12:10):
Eeyore, while others are justgenerally happy.
So there's genetics.
But then there's 40% of ourhappiness is actually our own
choices, the activities that wechoose to dedicate ourselves to.
And then there's 10%circumstance.
That was the stat that reallyblew my mind.
10% is circumstances.
(12:31):
So you can live in poverty andsqualor, and they did research
studies, people that lived insqualor in India and stuff like
that these people living inpoverty but they're still happy.
That's possible.
So sounds like your genes werehelping you out there a bit.
Brandon (12:46):
Yeah, I mean I'm someone there's no scientific
evidence behind it but I'msomeone who definitely I'm sure
you've seen the memes and stuffthat life is 10% what happens to
you and 90% how you respond toit.
I mean I really buy into that,I really believe that you know,
(13:07):
something can happen to you inlife Like what happened, you
know the third time.
I got divorced, right, I lostmy wife, I lost my kids.
I got laid off from my job.
I lost my house.
Right, I had to sell my house.
I literally had you knownothing except clothes.
I had my clothes, right.
I had to give it all up in mydivorce and lost everything Left
(13:31):
.
A divorce with $25,000 worth ofcredit card debt that my ex-wife
had accumulated.
But because I was thebreadwinner and she was a
stay-at-home wife, the judgemade it my debt.
He didn't even split it.
He made it my debt right.
And then he made me still owealimony and child support, even
though we had 50-50 custody.
And he did all of this knowingI was unemployed, I had no job,
(13:56):
right.
So just getting divorced andbeing in that situation where
now I'm heartbroken, I'memotionally unhappy and oh, by
the way, I got about 50K worthof debt right here, that when I
finally do get back on track inlife now.
I got to get rid of this.
(14:17):
Really, how I responded in thatmoment was a big dictator in
what happened to me in life, andI responded in a decision to
give up.
I decided to give up, andthat's where my suicide attempt
came in.
Now I could have responded verydifferently, right, and things
would have gone differently, butthat was what I chose to do.
(14:40):
So it's just the decisions youmake in those difficult moments
are really the determiningfactors of what is going to
happen.
Todd (14:49):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, dude, that was a deep pit man that you
were in, so just understandableman.
Brandon (14:58):
And I got out of it.
Right, I crawled out of it.
I mean, not only for some yearsnow have I not been in debt.
I am living the best life I'veever lived.
You really just have to justput your mind in the right place
.
Todd (15:12):
Yeah, so let's move on to what were you into as a teen?
Any sports, or what'd you do?
Oh yeah.
Brandon (15:19):
Yeah, no, I was a pretty solid amateur athlete.
So I played basketball, Iplayed football, I was a pitcher
in baseball and then, when Ijoined the Air Force, I got into
volleyball and sportsabsolutely consumed me.
And then in my mid-20s I alsogot into weightlifting because I
(15:43):
was tired of being tall andskinny.
Right, I was noticing girlslike men with muscles, so I was
like, wow, I'm going to get mesome of those muscles then.
So yeah, sports and fitness andhealth have always been a big
part of my life.
Todd (15:58):
Yeah, I was working out at a gym as a teen and there was
this guy that was always in thelocker room looking at himself
and this guy was ripped and hewas.
He was always like, yeah, if itain't tight, it ain't right.
Yeah, oh, that's so funny.
So why'd you choose to join theair force?
How did that come about?
Brandon (16:16):
so yeah.
So I had, uh, three uncles whowere all in the military one was
in the air force, two were inthe army and all three of them
told me to join the air force.
So I thought, well, if that'snot a ringing endorsement, I
don't know what is.
So yeah, I joined the air forcebecause they basically said
(16:36):
it's the best one, go there.
Todd (16:38):
So that's what I did yep, I was in the marines and man the
air force.
I just saw they lived adifferent life.
It was in the Marines andmanned the Air Force.
Brandon (16:46):
I just saw they lived a different life.
It was yeah, the quality oflife is pretty damn good in the
Air Force.
Todd (16:49):
Yes, it was more family oriented, and my father-in-law
did 35 years in the Air Force.
He retired as a colonel and hedeployed to Vietnam for a year,
but I think he was in Thailandor something, and so that was a
one year away unaccompanied, butfor the rest of the time he was
with his family, so that was.
Brandon (17:08):
Yeah, I mean, I was a missile cop and I used to go out
in the field for three days ata time every week.
But I loved it because you know, the four days I had off every
week were mine.
So that's nice.
Todd (17:20):
Yeah, it was a hell of a schedule.
I loved it.
Yeah, that's what I tell kids.
Kids, if they're talking aboutthe military, I'm like you might
want to check out the Air.
Brandon (17:27):
Force yeah for sure, yeah.
Todd (17:29):
so how'd you end up leaving the Air Force?
Brandon (17:31):
Yeah, so you know, I was young, I was 20-ish, and I
had no male mentors in my lifeand I got screwed over by a
master sergeant that I had nevermet before.
He came out to the missilefacility that I was working at
and he was supposed to QC me, doa quality control check on me,
(17:55):
and it didn't happen because ofwork factors that were
reasonable and understandablethat it didn't happen at the
time, and so he left and it waslike an hour and a half drive,
one way to get out there, and hegoes back into the site and he
just writes up this false QCreport that he QC'd me and I
(18:19):
failed.
Todd (18:19):
What does QC?
Brandon (18:19):
stand for it's quality control.
It's basically like being yeah,it's basically like just being
tested on the job your jobknowledge and your job skill
right While you're actually onthe job, and if you don't pass,
you get decertified from the jobthat you do.
And so I was in this positioncalled flight security
(18:39):
controller, which was normallymet for an E6 or higher, and I
was doing it as an E3.
So I was one of the first E3sto ever hold this position.
As a matter of fact, I think Iwas the second in Air Force
history.
One guy had just beat me to itand you know I was high speed, I
was working hard, I thought theAir Force was going to be my
(19:01):
life, so I was trying reallyhard to do well and get promoted
and be airman of the quarterand all these things, and it's
just one asshole master sergeantderailed my entire career, and
when he did that to me, to methat was traumatic.
It was career ending for me,because now my whole career had
(19:23):
been derailed.
In my eyes Hindsight being 2020, now that I'm older and I can
see things in a different lightit wasn't as awful as I thought
it was at the time, but I didn'thave anyone to tell me that I
didn't.
I didn't know any better.
So for me, in my eyes at thattime, it meant the Air Force
wasn't for me anymore.
Todd (19:44):
Right, yeah, I mean the military.
It's like you got good leaders,you got bad leaders.
Sounds like that dude just hada beef.
I mean, he just sounds like abad leader man.
Brandon (19:54):
Never met him before, didn't know him from Adam and
I'll never forget him.
Master Sergeant Danford was hisname.
I mean, I don't even know ifhe's still alive anymore, but
you know, he just, for whateverreason, decided to take some
shit out on me, and I don't knowwhy.
Todd (20:11):
Yeah, my last unit.
We had good leadership when wedeployed, so that was cool.
My battalion commander was aguy named Mastin Robeson.
He ended up retiring as athree-star general.
We loved that dude but he was ahard man but he took care of us
so we called him Uncle Mastin.
(20:31):
So he left.
So we got back from fromdeployment and I had a few
months left.
We get a new batch of officersin man and it was bad leadership
.
Man, it was a battalioncommander, that was.
He was a beltway bandit so hecame down.
He wanted to get promoted tofull bird colonel but he had to
have a command billet and so hecame down.
He kept his house up in the DCarea, came down for his command
(20:52):
and it just yeah, he ended upgetting a lot of people hurt, so
that was just bad leadershipman.
Brandon (20:58):
Yeah, brother, bad leadership has been the story of
my life, whether I was in themilitary or whether it was my
corporate civilian career.
I've had a couple good onesalong the way, but those are the
few.
The many are the bad.
Todd (21:17):
Yeah, I mean, dude, I'm thankful because I had some
really good leaders in themilitary that looked past my
faults and took me aside andcoached me and were like, hey,
dude, you know what, give mesome tips on how to treat people
and stuff.
So it was cool, so I'm thankfulfor that.
I knew what good looked likewhen I left the military, so
(21:40):
that was cool.
So I knew what good leadershipwas, and I'm thankful for that.
Brandon (21:44):
Yeah, I would say one of the people that I'm thankful
for and I don't remember hisname, but he was like my
supervisor for I would say, lessthan a year.
We're talking months right.
While he was my supervisor, Iwas explaining to him like, look
, I really want to do well inthe Air Force, I want to fast
track rank.
(22:04):
I told him all this stuff.
He was like, yeah, he gave mesome things to do.
Two of the things that he gaveme to do that impacted me the
rest of my life.
One was volunteering.
I volunteered at a nursing home.
Oh, wow, dude, no way.
Yeah, when I was going to thesenursing homes, I was trying to
(22:28):
communicate with these olderpeople that are basically on
their deathbed and trying tocreate relationships with them.
I was trying to make the bestof just being there.
So I had come up with thesequestions like a way to talk to
them, but also, selfishly, I wastrying to benefit myself in
that these people had lived life, they were at the end of life,
(22:51):
so I wanted to tap into theirknowledge.
I wanted to learn whatever theyhad to give you know, because a
lot of people blow people offlike that, like oh, they're old,
they don't know anything, bullcrap.
They're a freaking fountain ofinformation, right, yeah, so I
tapped into that information andone of the questions that I
(23:13):
asked them, that really stuckRight.
And they all kept telling methat, dude, and it was not.
(23:35):
It's not like they were in agroup and we were talking in a
group setting.
I was talking to themone-on-one individually and they
all kept giving me this answer,and so that just freaking stuck
with me my whole life.
And so then the other thing iswith me my whole life.
And so then the other thing isis you know, I joined high
school, you know, like schoolwas never a thing I cared about
(24:01):
or even tried to care about orwas important in my family.
You know, education didn't meanshit to anyone in my family.
So I got out of high schoolwith like a, you know D average.
Right, I didn't do well atschool at all.
So to me the idea of collegewas just this foreign concept.
That was a thing that wouldnever happen in my life.
Same.
(24:22):
And I was sharing that with thatsupervisor at the time and he
was like, well, what was yourbest subject in high school?
And I said, well, I did dopretty well in math.
Math came pretty easily to me.
He said all right, I want youto take a college entry-level
math class, right.
And so I did.
And I didn't, you know I didn't.
(24:42):
I wasn't a full-time collegestudent or anything, so I didn't
take it too seriously.
But I still got like a B plusin the course, right.
And I thought, yeah.
And I thought, well, son of abitch, you know I can get a B
plus in a college math classwithout even really giving it.
You know my best effort.
And so those things stuck withme.
(25:06):
And so when that incidenthappened to me in the Air Force,
him doing that to me gave methe confidence to believe I had
what it takes to go to collegeright.
And if he hadn't done that, whoknows what I would have did.
Todd (25:19):
Same thing.
Same thing happened to me.
I was in high school and theheadmaster of the little school
I went to he just starts talkingto me.
I was a jerk kid, honestly, andI complained about my parents
and all this stuff and I wasalways, like you know, bad mouth
on my parents and complaining.
He looked past that andmentored me and he started
talking to me like, hey, so whenyou go to college and I'm like
(25:41):
me, go to college, that made animpact, dude.
And so I joined the militarywith the intent of, okay, I'm
going to use GI Bill to go tocollege.
And then when I seen some ofthe officers, I was like, eh,
these dudes can go throughcollege, I can't do it.
Brandon (25:59):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that does help, right, you meet
some people who arequote-unquote educated and you
think you're educated.
Okay, Sure.
Todd (26:10):
That was one of the greatest things about the
military is you get thrown intothis.
It's like a big melting pot ofall these different people from
all walks of life and you kindof start seeing where you stack
up and you're like I'm not thebest, not the worst and I think
I can kind of be okay-ish yeah.
Brandon (26:28):
And for me it was like I thought I was average or below
average, right, but I would dothings in boot camp, right, and
I would be at the head of thepack, for example.
And then we had like this,where I was stationed at, in
shitty ass Minot, north Dakota,they had like this all-star
(26:49):
championship thing where youwould do three holes of golf and
you would shoot you knowbaskets and you would shot put
right.
It was all these sports eventsput together like this decathlon
, but it will, you know, theydidn't call it that and I won
that thing, I won the wholething right.
And so it was like you know,maybe I am a little more than
(27:12):
average, you know, maybe youknow.
And so, yeah, all that stuffgave me confidence that I could
do and be more out of life thatI didn't know that I could do
yeah, dude, you said three holesof golf.
Todd (27:25):
That's the most air force thing that's awesome.
Brandon (27:28):
Yeah, and it was just all part of this competition.
It was a small part too.
I don't remember it was like 15events.
One was just like throwing afootball.
How far inaccurate could youthrow a football?
You had to throw it down likethe first baseline of a baseball
field.
They measured distance andaccuracy how close it was to the
(27:49):
line I threw that sucker 70yards Boy field and it was.
They measured distance andaccuracy how close it was to the
line I threw that through thatsucker 70 yards.
But, um, yeah, but I, you know,I was a baseball pitcher in my
in my early life so I had a hellof an arm, um, but yeah, it was
just.
It's just things like that thatthey throw you into and they
make you do.
I didn't have have to do thiscompetition, but stuff leading
(28:11):
up to this competition that justgives you that confidence and
understanding that you can dosome things.
Todd (28:19):
Yeah, that's cool man.
And you had that one mastersergeant dude.
He never took time to get toknow you.
He just sounds like that dude.
He was out to get somebody andso he just comes in and pencil
whipped you and yeah, that'sjust, that's bad dude.
So that's how you end upleaving the Air Force.
So your contract ended and youjust departed and so you joined
(28:40):
the military a second time.
So how did that transition?
So you were a civilian for atime and then you joined the
military again.
Can you talk about that?
Brandon (28:50):
I joined the army the second time.
So, yeah, I was gonna.
I finished my bachelor's degreein college and it was a
combination of I got a Bachelorof Arts in communications and
journalism because I wanted tobe a sportscaster, but that
wasn't working out where I wasliving in Dayton Ohio.
And so between that and acombination of being in a toxic
(29:15):
relationship where we couldn'tget along but we also couldn't
stay away from each other, Iknew I needed to change, I
needed to do something differentin my life.
So I tried to go back into theAir Force as an officer.
To make a long story short, arecruiter screwed me over, so I
walked into the hall of the armyand I said what do you guys got
(29:37):
?
And then they told me you knowwhat, what would happen if I
joined the army.
And so I decided kind of inthat moment I'm going to join
the army and I'm going toadvance my, I'm going to get a
master's degree while I'm in thearmy.
And so, yeah, I just made thatdecision to join the army and
I'm going to advance my, I'mgoing to get a master's degree
while I'm in the army.
And so, yeah, I just made thatdecision to join the army and
get a master's degree.
Todd (29:58):
Nice.
What'd you do in the army?
Brandon (29:59):
It's funny.
I took the ASVAB and I got Iguess someone told me this at
the wellness center, I don'tknow if it's true or not, but
she told me I got a perfectscore on the ASVAB.
I don't know what a perfectscore is, but she told me that I
did.
So.
I had this huge list of thingsI could pick to do when I joined
the army, and I don't know why,but I thought recon sounded
(30:22):
really cool and I was like, oh,I want to do that, I want to do
recon.
I was all gung ho in my mind,right, and then the recruiter.
This is where a recruiteractually didn't screw me over
for once in my life.
And he goes don't you want togo to college and get a master's
degree?
And I said, yeah, I do.
He said if you're recon, you'llalways be deployed, you'll
(30:44):
always be gone.
You won't get that master'sdegree.
And I said, all right, right.
Well then, what do you?
You know, looking at this liston a computer screen, I'm like
well, what do you recommend I do?
And he points and he goes pickthat one.
And I go food inspector, youwant me to be a food inspector?
He's like man, trust me, that'san easy job.
(31:06):
You'll work monday throughfriday.
Yeah, he said you'll be off at4 30 every day.
You'll have evenings andweekends to yourself.
You want that if you're goingto school.
And I said all right.
So, yeah, I picked foodinspection for that reason,
that's great yeah.
So you got the master's degreewhile you're in the army, then
yeah, I did get an MBA andthat's why I got out of the army
(31:28):
, because I went through thesame thing.
Frankly, I hated the Army.
I had bad leadership, reallybad leadership in the Army.
It's not even comparable to theAir Force.
The Air Force was a thousandtimes better than the Army.
I just had one bad incident inthe Air Force where I had just a
terrible four years in the Army, frankly.
(31:52):
But I still thought about one ofmy good friends in the army.
He was a staff sergeant.
He got direct commission tosecond lieutenant for
environmental health because hehad a degree in environmental
health and he kept trying totell me here I was an E-5
sergeant and he was a captain,right, and we were hanging out
(32:13):
and my leadership's all pissedoff because I'm hanging out with
an officer, right, but he usedto be a staff sergeant and he
got commissioned.
So we were friends before hebecame an officer.
But he's constantly trying toconvince me just become an
officer, you'll love it, it's amuch better life.
So I had him in my ear tellingme that.
(32:35):
But then I had another guy whowas a chief warrant officer.
He was a CW3.
And he was like no man, you getthat MBA and you get the hell
out.
You go make some real money.
You're not going to make realmoney as an officer in the army.
Go make real money with thatMBA.
And so between the two of themand I just didn't want to go.
I didn't want to go through OCSbecause you, you had to run
(32:58):
like five miles in 45 minutesand I freaking hate running.
Um, yeah, yeah.
So I was going to be timed on afive mile and I was like, uh, I
don't know if I want to do that.
His name was Matt.
I said Matt, I don't know if Iwant to do that.
His name was Matt.
I said Matt, I don't know if Iwant to do that.
I don't know if it's worth itto me.
You got direct commissioned.
If I got direct commissioned,it might be worth it.
So then I just decided to getout and go.
(33:21):
Let my MBA take me where ittakes me.
Todd (33:24):
Yeah, dude, I mean the military.
It's the careerists that arejacking the place up, man.
Yeah, it's like you know, I hadsome good leaders, but then the
careerists were the ones thatthey were just bad leaders.
They were out for themselvesand they just jacked people over
.
So I'm glad I did the military,but I'm glad I got out.
(33:45):
I've had a good career and I'veenjoyed myself.
Brandon (33:48):
Well, even the negative things that happen, you learn
from right.
So and I've enjoyed myself Well, even the negative things that
happen, you learn from right.
So you get a lot of learningexperience in the military,
whether it's from positive ornegative, but you still get a
lot of learning experience.
Todd (34:02):
Yeah, it's good man.
I mean it helps me when, like,if I'm interviewing for a job,
I'm talking to the hiringmanager, I can ask some just
nondescript questions and theiranswers to that reveal a lot.
So it's like, oh, okay, cool.
Brandon (34:14):
Yeah, the choice of picking what you want to do for
a living, a choice of leavingright If you're at a job that
you hate, is miserable.
Whatever you start looking foranother job on your own, free
will, you find one and you justleave.
You can't do that in themilitary.
You just leave.
You can't do that in themilitary.
Todd (34:33):
Oh man, all right, so that was the military career.
So let's circle back onrelationships.
So how did your childhoodimpact your relationships, like
with family and coworkers?
Brandon (34:45):
Yeah, oh man, that's a good question.
I've always been a prettyhonest, good dude.
Before I knew what the goldenrule was, it was how I lived
life.
I always treated people the wayI wanted to be treated.
But I didn't have it in thosewords, it just was natural to me
(35:05):
, to me.
And so, you know, I would makefriends pretty easily and I
would get close to people.
And you know, I had a lot ofheartache that way, a lot of
pain, because I've had a lot offriends and family even a little
bit screw me over because theywere so selfish and self-serving
(35:28):
, right, and I wasn't like that.
I was the type of guy that youknow you could leave me with.
I could stay the night withyour girlfriend.
I would never try to hit on her.
I had friends.
Try to hook up with mygirlfriends or wives or you know
whatever, yeah, and you knowjust things that were
devastating to me because Iwould never treat someone that
(35:51):
way.
And so, yeah, I had to learn alot of hard lessons from getting
close to the wrong people,because the bar was low for me,
right?
I grew up around alcoholics anddrug addicts, right?
So if you weren't an alcoholicand drug addict and you were
trying to do something with yourlife.
You must be a decent person,right, not necessarily.
Todd (36:12):
Right, yeah, yeah.
So it sounds like the impactwas not being able to read
people, perhaps.
Yeah.
Brandon (36:19):
Yeah, and I overcompensated with that and I
focused really, really hard onlearning how to do that and now
I feel like I'm very, very goodat reading people, because I
just didn't want to be caughtlike that anymore.
Todd (36:36):
I had dude.
I had the same thing, man.
It was like when I became anadult, it was like latching onto
people, you know, and kind ofattaching to them, and it was
not a good thing, because noteverybody's good.
Brandon (36:47):
So, yeah, I had very similar things going on, man
yeah, no, I was a guy that, youknow, when I was in the air
force, between 70 and 20, I Iwould have thought I had like 30
to 50 friends, right like, andI would have called them quote
unquote friends.
Right now I'm a guy that I havefour good friends in my life,
four.
Only one of them lives even inthe same town.
(37:11):
The other three are militarydudes that were actually the
good people that I connectedwith in my military life, but
they live in other parts of theworld.
Todd (37:21):
Yeah, we think we have a lot of friends when we're young.
Brandon (37:25):
Yeah, we do, and you find out.
Yeah, no, sure, don't.
Todd (37:30):
How did you get to the point where you said hey, I need
to seek professional help.
Can you talk about that?
Brandon (37:35):
Well, the first time it happened, it was thrown on me.
So what happened was when Ifirst got in the Air Force, I
was dating this really beautifulblonde girl, the most beautiful
girl I had ever been with Right.
And then I was out in themissile field and it was let me
stop you there, cause that's the, the pretty girls are in the
(37:56):
air force, so well, she wasn't.
Her dad was.
She was a daughter of an airforce, she was a military brat,
um, and I was only 17, and shewas actually only 17.
She was a senior in high school, and some people had problems
with that because I was in theair force and she was in high
school, but we were the same age, we were both 17.
So, you know, we're both young,stupid, we don't.
(38:20):
Who knows what a relationshipis at 17 years old, right?
But I was hooked on her man, Imean, I, I thought I was in love
with this girl.
She's the one, yeah, yeah,right, I mean, for me at that
point in life, she was by farthe best thing that had happened
to me as far as girls go.
And I was out in the missilefield first day and she calls me
(38:42):
and she's just talking to meand I'm like what'd you do today
?
And you know, she innocentlysays like, oh, you know, yeah, I
met this guy and he took me fora ride on his motorcycle and I
was like what you know?
And she proceeds to tell methis story as if it's this
innocent thing, right, and ofcourse I got pissed off and I
(39:04):
didn't see it as innocent, right.
And I got upset and you know,she just went into defensive
mode and was like I didn't doanything wrong.
You know, blah, blah, blah,whatever.
We ended up breaking up, right.
And it's my first day out inthe missile field and I'm like I
don't want to be out here,right.
So in my head I'm upset, I'mhurt, I'm kind of scheming, like
(39:26):
how can I get the hell back tobase because I don't want to be
out here.
And so I told my flightsergeant that I was going to
kill myself, right?
I didn't I didn't actually meanit, right, but I was so young
and stupid and naive that Ithought they would just take me
off duty because I carried, youknow, an m16 as a weapon.
(39:46):
I was a.
No, that's not what happened atall.
So they were like they took meinto base, they took me to the
hospital.
The hospital drugged me and thenext time I woke up I was in a
stretcher on a flight toLackland Air Force Base, to the
mental health facility.
(40:07):
Wow.
Todd (40:08):
Okay, yeah, wow, grippy socks, yeah.
Wow, yeah, grippy socks, yeah,yeah, oh, my word.
Brandon (40:15):
Wow.
Todd (40:15):
That's pretty dramatic, dude.
Brandon (40:17):
It was really dramatic, right, and I get there in, like
these counselors and therapistsare, you know, oh, you know,
how can we help you?
Blah, blah, blah, and I'm like,look, I didn't want to kill
myself, I was just in thissituation.
And so they didn't want torelease me because they didn't
(40:38):
believe me.
They thought I was just sayingbullshit, because I didn't want
to open up or whatever.
And then finally, after acouple of weeks, they were like
all right, he must be tellingthe truth, because he stuck to
this story for a couple of weeksand they finally let me go.
And you know, but I did get,you know, I had to sit in group
therapy sessions, I had to see atherapist and I actually did
(40:58):
see some good stuff behind doingthat, even though, you know, I
wasn't really suicidal at thattime.
So I, yeah, it, it, it, I guess, tapped me into the possibility
of getting help.
Todd (41:15):
Yeah Well, that, oh wow, that's dramatic, but it's like
then you start to go okay, cool,I've learned some things here.
Brandon (41:21):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's what we need to do in
every bad situation.
Right Is, learn something fromit.
Todd (41:27):
Wow, dude's, that's pretty cool, it's uh, I just wanted to
get off duty yeah, yeah, Ireally did.
Brandon (41:35):
I mean, we made fun of it, right, I played flag
football.
When I got back, I put psychoon the back of my jersey, right,
like we had a good time with it, because you know me and my
friends laughed about it, but uh, it was a stupid thing to do
for sure.
Todd (41:50):
Another thing I love about the military is how we just
make fun of each other.
Yeah, you know you got to laugh, man it's.
But so, over time, though, howhas therapy and education helped
you overcome the past?
Brandon (42:02):
Well, so education has just opened doors for me.
I mean, obviously it's probablymade me more intelligent in
some ways that you can't really,I guess, put a finger on right,
because you don't really learn.
You don't really remember whatyou learned in school, right?
I don't remember what I learnedgetting my bachelor's degree or
my MBA, I don't really, if theydon't get an education right, I
(42:37):
don't know that for sure.
I'm just talking about myexperience.
But just having the educationopened doors for me that I would
not have had opened if I didn'tget the education, so that was
really beneficial.
And I actually forgot the otherpart of your question.
Todd (42:55):
How did therapy and education help you overcome?
Brandon (42:58):
the past.
Oh yeah.
So therapy I told you this.
We had a conversation before wedid this podcast I've seen like
a dozen therapists in my lifeand I only met one or saw one
that was actually good andactually worked.
And the reason I think thatthat's pertinent and important
is because I've heard otherpeople say, oh, I've gone to
(43:20):
therapy, it doesn't work right.
So all that means is you justdidn't meet the right therapist.
You didn't find the right one,because when I found the right
one, she was life-altering forme.
She was life-saving for me.
She really helped me a lot inlife.
She helped me see myself in adifferent light when the rest of
(43:43):
the world is making youquestion yourself and who you
are and what you're doing.
She really brought me back tomy center of who I am and what
I'm doing in life, and so shewas hugely beneficial in my life
.
So if you think therapy doesn'twork, you just haven't found
the right one.
Todd (44:04):
Right, like you said, most are not a good fit.
I'll say that just to be.
You got to find one that's agood fit for you, but there are
a lot out there that it's likeit's formulaic for them and
they'll email you a document toread that's and it's like can
you put in less effort?
Brandon (44:22):
So, if that I mean, I used to go see a marriage
therapist with my wife, you know, and she would be like, oh, I'm
gonna send you something to dothis, or I'm going to send you
something to do that, or we'lltalk about this in next session,
and those things just didn'thappen, like it was just talk,
no follow through.
Todd (44:40):
Yeah, but when you find a good someone that's been trained
, yeah, really knows what theheck they're doing and cares,
yeah, they can dig in with youand just go, you know they're
not telling.
It's not like TV.
They're not sitting theretelling you what to do and
they're just working with you.
Yeah, they don't know A goodcounselor.
They know they don't know andthey're just exploring things
(45:01):
with you, but they've hadtraining to be able to guide you
.
When you reveal something to agood, trained therapist, they
have the knowledge to be able tosay ah, okay, and then just
gently guide you down the pathto finding healing, to growth.
Brandon (45:15):
Yeah, and the key to her versus other therapists was
you know, with other therapistsis like, oh, have you tried this
?
Have you tried that you coulddo differently, this differently
?
You could do that, that youcould do differently, this
differently, you could do thatWhereas she was like, oh, this
(45:40):
is what would work best for you,or oh, you're doing the right
thing.
She showed me to believe inmyself and what I'm already
doing, whereas other therapistswere trying to make me change
and do things differently, whichwas what was causing all the
confusion and the problem in thefirst place, because I was
trying to be somebody that Ithought I should be, not who I
actually was or wanted to be,and she really honed that in and
(46:02):
worked that out.
Todd (46:03):
That's awesome, man.
Yeah, so you spent a lot oftime doing the inner work, yeah,
yeah, yeah, just putting inthat time, dude, we all have to
do that, and so it sounds thenlike you've had multiple
relationships and whatnot.
How have your relationshipschanged with family and
coworkers and whatnot as aresult of that inner work?
Brandon (46:26):
Multiple ways right With family, like wives.
For example, I'm on my fourthwife.
It really took me threefailures to find out what I
needed for the right person, andthings that I thought I needed
turns out I didn't need right, Ineeded other things that I
didn't realize before, and sothat helped me find the right
(46:49):
person for who I am married tonow, and I have by far you know
people.
Oh, you know this is just yourfourth marriage.
This marriage could fail too.
Yeah, you're right, it could,but it's by far the best
relationship I've ever had in myentire life, and so that is
positive enough right there andalso makes me feel like this
(47:12):
relationship isn't going to failbecause things don't happen
where you feel like it couldlead to failure, whereas my
other relationships have bouncedup and down and all over the
place, and sometimes you'retrying to survive and make it
work when you know really you'rejust trying to, you know, make
something good out of somethingthat's not good, and so that's
(47:35):
how it's helped me in mypersonal married life and with
family and stuff.
I learned that, you know,because I grew up under the
mantra you can't pick yourfamily, your family is family,
right.
So that made me feel like youhave to put up with all the
bullshit your family bringsright, all the negativity, all
the backstabbing, whatever it isthey bring that you have to put
(47:59):
up with it.
And then I learned like youdon't have to do that, right,
yeah, so you can choose thepositive forces in your life,
the positive people, and you canlet them be a part of your life
.
And then the negative forcesand the negative people, you
push them out, you get them outof your life.
It doesn't matter if it's afamily member or a friend or
(48:21):
whatever.
If they're not making your lifebetter in some way, they don't
need to be a part of it.
So that was something I had tolearn along the way as well.
Todd (48:30):
This episode is brought to you by the therapeutic word
boundaries.
True, true, uh, I've heard.
I heard the word in the pastand it was like okay, cool,
whatever, boundaries, that'slegit, dude, that's the thing
they have around states rightboundaries boundaries.
So yeah, you gotta, and youhave to stand up for those
(48:51):
boundaries, because otherwisepeople just run over you.
Brandon (48:54):
Man, it's uh anyway, yeah no, I I was too nice when I
was young and people did takeadvantage of my kindness and you
know wives have taken advantageof my kindness.
But now I'm much more of theage and credence of don't
mistake my kindness for weakness.
(49:17):
I fight back now and I willstand up for myself.
Todd (49:21):
Yeah, I mean, on top of everything you went through in
childhood, you also lost adaughter.
You feel like talking aboutthat?
Brandon (49:28):
Yeah, it's an ugly story.
It's not beautiful for anyone,but I was 22 years old.
My wife at the time, my firstwife.
She had gotten pregnant, whichwasn't supposed to happen.
She was supposed to be on birthcontrol, so this wasn't
supposed to be a thing that wassupposed to be a part of our
life.
(49:48):
So it was an accident, if youwill.
And so she's pregnant, she'scoming along and you're starting
to get the idea of all right,well, I'm going to be a parent.
Right, I'm going to be a dad.
So you start getting on boardwith that idea and then early in
the pregnancy I think aroundthe five-month mark she starts
(50:10):
coming out.
My wife at the time had a weakcervix and nobody knew that.
That's something you can't knowuntil you're pregnant and you
find out you have a weak cervix,right.
So they did all this stuff.
They tried flipping my wife atthe time upside down because the
baby was starting to come out,and have it go back inside of
(50:30):
her.
And she was upside down, dude,for almost four days.
I want to say it's like threeto four days and the doctor
comes in and he's like, lookshe's, she's not going back up
in there, and if we don't flipyou upside down, you're gonna
die, right.
And my wife at the time she'sso stubborn, she's like I don't
(50:50):
care, let me die, you know, saveher.
And it's like duh, you can't,you can't save her.
If you die, you're, you know,you're the, you're the survival.
So so, yeah, so, you know he'slike he flips her back over and
he's like look, she's gonna comeout.
You know you're gonna givebirth to her.
She's gonna cry, she's gonnascream, it's, she's gonna sound
(51:11):
normal, but her lungs areunderdeveloped and there's
nothing.
You know you're going to givebirth to her.
She's going to cry, she's goingto scream, she's going to sound
normal, but her lungs areunderdeveloped and there's
nothing we can do for you andshe's going to die, she's going
to pass.
And so, yeah, we went throughthat.
We went through you know hersitting there giving birth.
She comes out.
You hold her.
She's a screaming, cryinglittle girl until she's just not
anymore.
(51:31):
And then she's gone.
Yeah, and it was the worstthing I've ever gone through,
and I've gone through a lot ofbad things in life.
That was the worst thing I'veever gone through.
Todd (51:43):
Dude, that's grievous man.
I'm sorry, dude oh yeah, it'sbrutal.
Brandon (51:48):
Yeah, wouldn't wish that on anyone Losing a child.
Todd (51:52):
Sorry, man, yeah.
So let's step it up a littlebit, yeah so yeah, fun topic for
sure.
That's rough, brother, I'msorry man, but that's all right.
Brandon (52:06):
I mean, it is what it is.
It happened, I can't doanything about it.
Todd (52:09):
Yeah.
So I mean, what was your careertrajectory after you left the
military?
How's life worked out sincethen?
It's crazy.
Brandon (52:17):
Life is crazy.
It's been up and down, for sure, and it's been more up in
recent years, but it tookmultiple years of adulthood for
me to make it steady like that.
It's been a roller coaster ride, for sure.
I've had to start over fourtimes in life with nothing.
(52:39):
I've had to start from nothingfour times in life and it's
exhausting.
It's exhausting as a matter offact, the fourth time when I did
attempt suicide and I haddecided to give up, I had gotten
a divorce I didn't want to get,which means I lost my wife.
I lost my kids.
(53:01):
I got laid off at the exact sametime while I was going through
the divorce, had to sell myhouse house.
When I went through the divorce, my wife had accumulated
$25,000 worth of credit carddebt.
The judge made me keep becauseI was the breadwinner and she
was the stay-at-home wife.
So he made me take on the 25Kdebt, even though I was laid off
(53:28):
.
And then he also ordered me topay her spousal maintenance and
child support, even though wehad 50-50 custody of the kids.
I was like 50K in debt,unemployed, nowhere to live, no
job.
I was done.
I was ready to give up in life,so that was the lowest point as
far as what I was going throughpersonally in life.
(53:50):
Still, the worst thing thatever happened to me was losing a
daughter.
But that was the lowest pointin life where I just thought
well, there's just no reason forme to be here anymore.
I can't overcome the obstaclesthat life has thrown at me.
And that's how I looked at it.
I looked at it like I was avictim of life, and so that beat
(54:11):
me, it won and I gave up.
But I did.
Obviously, I didn't die.
I lived.
I took a full bottle of Ambienand someone called the ambulance
and they saved my life.
When I woke up, I was mad, I wasangry that I was still alive, I
wanted to be dead.
But then I, like a flipswitched inside of me.
(54:32):
I was angry that I was stillalive, I wanted to be dead, but
then I, like a flip switchedinside of me or I say that wrong
a switch flipped inside of methat it was like well, if I'm
going to live, I can't keepliving like this.
I have to change my life and Ihave to change what it is and my
outlook and what it's become.
(54:52):
So then I just did, I just madea decision right then and there
that, whatever it took, I wasgoing to get back on my feet.
I was going to get rid of allthat debt that credit card debt,
that spousal maintenance, childsupport and I was going to make
myself a great life.
(55:12):
And through hard work anddetermination I did, and so I
had the best career I've everhad.
I have the best marriage andrelationship I've ever had.
I mean my outlook on life justin general period.
When bumps come in, they don'thave this big, huge shockwave
effect on me like they used tohave, like, oh, why does this
(55:35):
stuff happen to me?
Right, you just kind of handleit in stride and realize it will
pass and there's still plentyof other great things to be
thankful for and happy about,and you focus on those and, yeah
, my life is the best it's everbeen and has been for a few
years now.
Todd (55:55):
That's inspiring dude.
I'm happy for you, man.
Brandon (55:58):
Thank you, man, and I want that for other people.
That's the thing about it.
This podcast came about in I'mlife coaching because I don't
want people to have to gothrough what I've gone through
to get here Right and you don'thave to.
You don't have to.
I didn't have mentors, I didn'thave someone to guide me.
(56:20):
I had to go through this shitto get here.
But I want to help other peopleso they don't have to.
Todd (56:28):
And that is I mean you extend that to military veterans
as well.
You want to talk about that?
Brandon (56:33):
Yeah, I mean, of course , military veterans, the most
suicidal males on this earth.
Right, they just are.
Eight out of every 10 suicidesis men.
Men are just suicidal period ingeneral, but when you look at
percentages, military veteransare the highest by far.
(56:54):
And so I wanted to reach out tothem and get to them and see
whatever I can do, whatevercommunity I can create, whatever
kind of people I can surroundthem with, to let them know that
they can get through whateverthey're going through, and
suicide is not the answer.
That's my mission, that's whatI'm trying to do.
(57:16):
So there's a long way to go onthat, but that's what I'm trying
to do.
Todd (57:20):
Yeah, with military it's like you've got that community
and you've got that camaraderie,you've got those connections
with other people in yoursquadron, platoon, whatever,
yeah, and then you leave and yougo to civilian life and that's
gone.
And that is a huge mental blockfor people to overcome.
Yeah, when I get older and youlook back and you miss that, and
(57:42):
so I can see, man, why peoplewant to check out.
Brandon (57:45):
Well, what I love about military veterans is, you know,
when we're in the military,when we're actually active duty,
right, we all talk shit.
It's like it's almost like afraternity of a college, right.
Like, oh, I'm in the air force,I'm Ohio state, oh, you're in
the Marines, you're Michigan,right, like we, we shit on each
other and make fun of each other, but once we're out, we're just
(58:06):
all veterans, right.
It doesn't matter what branchof service you are in.
You know, that connection isjust there because, oh, you went
through some shit.
No, okay, yeah, you're militarytoo, right.
So it's a bond that I try totell people, like, as someone
who's been an athlete in thecorporate world.
You can't find that bondanywhere else.
(58:28):
No, nowhere.
Todd (58:30):
It's awesome, dude.
There is struggle, there is,there's just hardship, and that
shared hardship and living withpeople 24-7 is, yeah.
You can't make thoseconnections in civilian life.
So, no, no, so that's how youended up starting your podcast
life.
It's crazy.
Anything else you want to shareabout the podcast?
Brandon (58:48):
If you know anyone who's struggling or going
through a difficult time andthey're having a hard time
seeing a way through or findinga way out, listen to the podcast
.
I do bring on a lot of peoplewho are there to support and
help others that have gonethrough that situation, and they
(59:09):
vary, they're different typesof people.
For that exact reason, right, Ican't personally connect with
everyone, and I don't just meanbecause it's physically
impossible, I mean because maybeeveryone's experience isn't the
same as mine and they don'tconnect with me on a mental and
emotional level, right.
So I try to bring on guests whoalso have been through some
(59:32):
trauma or have been suicidal orthe very least had suicidal
ideations if they neverattempted, and maybe they
connect with them better, maybethey identify with what they're
going through better, and thenthat's someone they can connect
with and get help from.
And so that's really what I'mtrying to do, by bringing just a
(59:53):
vast array of types of peoplefrom every it doesn't matter man
, doctors, lawyers, whatevercareer you can think of.
I've come across people whohave either been suicidal
ideations or they've actuallyattempted it.
There's always someone on therefor people to connect with.
Todd (01:00:13):
That's great.
I mean, we need that connection, man.
That's what we're missing, andespecially in affluent America.
We're just disconnected.
You just see, social media man,we're not connected to people.
When you're just seeingsomeone's best day of their life
on social media, man, that canmake you depressed.
So yeah, yeah.
So thanks for starting yourpodcast, man.
(01:00:34):
We need that dude, we needcommunity, we need people to be
connected.
So that's good stuff.
Brandon (01:00:40):
Thank you, man.
Thanks for having me on too.
Todd (01:00:42):
Yeah.
So I mean, what takeaway do youwant to leave with our
listeners?
Brandon (01:00:44):
Yeah, the biggest takeaway I like to tell people
is no matter what it is you'regoing through or have gone
through and you might be in abad place right now in life just
remember this too shall passright.
Don't live in the moment, livefor the big picture, right?
No matter how hard the momentis right now, work towards the
(01:01:09):
big picture.
Just take the right steps, dothe right things and things will
fall into place for you.
And just remember it will pass.
Whatever you're going through,it will pass.
Todd (01:01:21):
That's true.
Now, here's what resonated withme just listening to you A lot
of people, man, they're dealingwith terrible situations.
Everybody's got trials andstruggles in life and we have to
choose a response.
Yeah, and the best thing we cando is talk about it to other
people.
Yeah, and I've said this manytimes here on the podcast, but
(01:01:42):
the best thing I took away fromthe military is that connection
and knowing how to talk to otherpeople.
So when we were forwarddeployed, it was like we spent
hours talking to one another.
When you're just downtime atnight and you got nothing to do
and you're just sitting theretelling stories and, dude, that
connection we all need that.
(01:02:02):
Another thing that occurs to mehere is that I mean, we can be
in the depths of failure anddespair, but there's always hope
.
Yeah, and man, just listeningto your story, dude, that really
brought that to mind.
Also, the bad things thathappen to us they don't define
who we are, they don't have toRight, and for me, that's
another reason to get help indealing with that because, okay,
(01:02:25):
bad things happen to us andoftentimes we feel shame as a
result of that.
Getting professional help todeal with that, to process those
things, dude.
That's invaluable.
I'm thankful for it.
I mean, reach out and get thathelp that you need right.
Brandon (01:02:39):
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the best things is you
can understand is you don't haveall the answers.
Right, nobody has all theanswers.
So, just like you would want tolearn, maybe, how to fix a car,
for example, if that wassomething you're into, you got
to learn how to fix your brainor go through situations that
you weren't prepared for.
Right, you don't have theanswers, so go to someone that
(01:03:02):
does.
Todd (01:03:03):
Yeah, I mean, we go to orthos for our physical
conditions, exactly.
They're people that help workon your brain too, so they're
trained.
We can wrap it up at this point, but look for the Life is Crazy
podcast on your podcastplatforms, and I'm going to
include a link in thedescription that'll take you to
all of Brandon's platforms.
Just click the link, listen tohis podcast or reach out to him
(01:03:25):
for life coaching if you needthat, but I'll put a link in the
description.
Brandon, we appreciate yourtime, brother.
Thanks so much, man.
Yeah, thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.
All right, we'll be talkingagain, man.
Now I invite you to check outthe links in the description If
you want to pick up the books wecover on the podcast.
They'll be there.
We're an Amazon partner, so wedo earn from these purchases to
(01:03:45):
you, so thanks so much forjoining and James, enjoy the
chat.
Yeah, very, very insightful,appreciate it.
Thanks for our listeners.
We look forward to seeing y'allnext time.
Have a great day.
This is the Cluttered Path , a compass for midlife.
He spent years dealing withchildhood trauma I mean, we're
talking pain that leads a lot ofpeople to harm themselves.
But as an adult, he didn't justlearn how to cope.
(00:20):
He found a way to turn hisscars into some of his greatest
strengths, and this story willmake you rethink everything you
know about overcoming strugglesand healing.
Today I'm talking to BrandonHeld about his life story and
the path that led him tofulfillment as an adult.
Brandon, welcome to the show.
Brandon (00:36):
Thank you for having me .
I appreciate it.
Good to have you here, man.
Todd (00:40):
So before we get into the discussion, we'll start with a
brief bio on Brandon.
He grew up without a father inan alcoholic, drug-fueled
environment.
He watched his mother just getconstantly abused by his stepdad
.
He escaped that life by joiningthe military twice and he
actually went to college twice.
He's been divorced three timesand is presently on his fourth
(01:00):
marriage.
He has three sons and he'sworked as a bartender, a
personal trainer, salesman,government contractor, and he
even worked in the aerospaceindustry.
He's been suicidal and evenattempted suicide.
Today, brandon's mission isworking with people who've
experienced trauma and difficultcircumstances.
Now his goal is to help themgrow, heal and live meaningful
(01:22):
lives.
And he's also a longtime anddiehard Ohio State Buckeyes fan
and he hosts the podcast Life isCrazy.
Brandon (01:29):
And you can add one more podcast to that Buckeye
Battle Cry.
So yeah, I just started thatit's a new podcast.
So now I'm a host of twopodcasts.
Todd (01:39):
Excellent, man, that is cool.
Yeah, so we'll just dump rightin.
Man, I'll just get started withthe questions.
So let's start with yourchildhood man.
Can you tell us about that andhow that shaped you?
Brandon (01:48):
Yeah, it's one of those childhoods where I grew up in a
small town in Ohio.
It was my norm, right, it wasnormal to me, quote unquote
normal to me.
I knew it was different thaneveryone else's, but I didn't
feel traumatic at the time.
But, yeah, I grew up poor.
By the time my mother had me at16, by the time she was 18, she
(02:12):
had me and my sister, and nowshe was a single mom at 18 years
old.
So you can imagine she wasn'tprepared for that or a life like
that, and so she, of course,was finding a way to survive and
be supportive.
And she met my stepdad, who isthe father of my brother, who's
(02:34):
10 years younger than I am, andhe was an alcoholic and a biker
and he was just abusive.
He would beat her up and allthat stuff in front of me, and
we didn't have food a lot oftimes.
Some days my only meal was thefree lunch that I got at school.
So, yeah, I'm six foot one andI was like 150, 155 pounds at 17
(02:58):
years old when I finally didget out of the house.
So I was super scrawny and,yeah, I just knew it was an
environment that I wanted to bein and I needed to get out of it
as soon as I could.
Todd (03:09):
Oh man, that's rough.
People talk about substanceabuse and they kind of look at
people and they couch it interms of they almost call them
victims.
You know, but it's what I sawgrowing up with people that were
just wrapped up in thatsubstance abuse man, these
weren't nice people, man, it wasbad.
Brandon (03:29):
Yeah, and you know, alcohol, drugs that's poison,
it's toxic to your body, right?
So whatever your, whatever yourown brain is already doing to
yourself, you know cause?
My sister and my brotheractually followed in the
footsteps of the rest of myfamily and they became
alcoholics and drug addicts, andit's the victimhood mentality
(03:52):
that led them down that path.
Oh, I'm from this crappy family, this is the life I'm going to
have, because this is where I amfrom, and I would always look
at him and be like hello, I'myour older brother, I've never
drank, I've never smoked, I'venever done any drugs.
I'm college educated.
So what do you mean?
(04:13):
This is the life you have tohave.
You don't have to have thatlife.
You chose that life.
Todd (04:19):
Right, it's like crabs in a bucket.
In many cases it's a viciouscycle, man, and people kind of
look at the poor, as you know,talking about the noble poor in
these like honorable senses, andI'm just like, no, I didn't
really see that.
Being poor, it stinks, it'sembarrassing, it hurts, and just
(04:39):
because someone's poor doesn'tmean they're a nice person.
So we have our choices, yeah.
Brandon (04:50):
Well, it's actually usually the opposite, but we are
fortunate, right.
We live in the greatest countryin the world.
We just do.
I know we have our faults and Iknow things you know, as older
men, are trending in the wrongdirection in this country and
could be better.
But we still live in a countrywhere you can come from nothing
and still just get out of thatand break those curses and
(05:12):
generational cycles and not onlyturn your life around but turn
your kids' lives around andtheir kids, and we're very lucky
.
You can't do that in everycountry.
Todd (05:23):
Yeah, I mean my brother-in-law.
He's Cuban, he grew up undercommunism and he escaped.
He had to get help to get outbut he escaped.
And man, I just love immigrantstories.
Man, people come here and justdo well, because they're like
it's like Disneyland, it's likeall this stuff.
But we're kind of used to itand a lot of times we just get
(05:46):
bitter and resentful man and wedon't really take advantage of
what's here for us.
Brandon (05:51):
Yeah, and a lot of people look for that free
handout.
You know they want to have to dothe work that it takes to get
to where you need to be Right.
Yeah, sure, some people areborn with the silver spoon.
Their parents and theirgrandparents and all that they
(06:13):
had already did all that hardwork and they made their lives a
little easier so they had aneasier walk into success in life
.
But luckily in America you canwork hard and you can get
educated or you can become abusiness person.
Whatever it is that you havethe talent to do, you can turn
that talent into success in life.
And a lot of people just don'twant to do the work.
(06:35):
They just want things handed tothem, right yeah.
Todd (06:39):
And when you get into that place and I saw it, I grew up
poor, I mean, I grew up intrailer parks and stuff into
that place and I saw it, I grewup poor, I mean, I grew up in
trailer parks and stuff.
And when you get into thatplace where you're bitter and
you've just been told thatyou've been put in this place by
other people and you've beengiven an enemy to hate, when you
get to that point, man, it isso hard to change that mentality
and get out of that.
And it takes people interveningfor you with you to get you out
(07:04):
of that mentality.
Because I had it, man, I hatedrich people and pretty much
anybody that lived in a houseattached to the ground.
They were rich to me.
Brandon (07:13):
Man, I just never bought into it.
I just had this.
I don't know if I was arrogantor stupid, maybe a little bit of
both, but just when I was young, I just always said this isn't
the life I'm going to live, likewhat I see going on around me
this alcoholism, this drug use,this you know life sucks.
(07:35):
You know I hate work andgetting up every morning because
life sucks.
Right, I knew I was going tohave a different life.
I didn't know how, you know, Ididn't know what was going to be
different, like how I was goingto be different than them.
But I knew it was going to bedifferent and I just never
bought into it.
Oh man, that's good stuff, dude.
Todd (07:57):
I mean because I knew you had those voices out there that
were trying to pull you in andjust go.
Yeah, you know those richpeople.
Brandon (08:06):
Every day my uncle would say every day life sucks,
I hate this life, life sucks.
Every day he would say thatshit.
And you know I'm a kid, right,he doesn't want to hear what I
have to say.
But even then in my mind I waslike, well, it doesn't have to.
You know it sucks becausethat's the life you live, that's
(08:27):
the life you lead, but itdoesn't have to.
And I felt that as a kid.
But you couldn't tell him that.
He just believed what hebelieved.
Todd (08:38):
I saw a lot of that growing up.
You go through a trailer parkand you just see people a lot of
dads sitting there with no jobsand just drinking all day long
and then they're abusive.
They're angry and that's howthey justify the abuse.
Man, they're so angry andbitter and so they just take it
out on the kids, the wife, yeah.
Brandon (08:59):
In their defense.
They don't know how to act anyother way.
And I'm not saying that's okayat all, because it's not.
But part of using drugs andalcohol is you never learn how
to cope and deal with things inlife right.
You've always relied on somesubstance to help you cope and
deal right, and in some casesthe substance just makes you a
(09:23):
bigger monster.
So you might be coping, butyou're a monster to everyone
else that's around you and it'sjust an ugly vicious cycle that
happens to people and they justdon't get out of it.
They just don't know how tobreak out of it.
Todd (09:37):
Right, that's the generational stuff, man.
Because they never were taught,they didn't have a parent that
sat with them and taught themhow to interact and be social
and treat others well, and sothey grow up not knowing how to
do that.
They're just kind ofemotionally stunted and they
don't know how to do it, and sothen you get the bitterness and
(09:59):
resentment, and it's just acycle, man, that's the right
phrase for it.
Brandon (10:04):
Or they don't even just don't know how to deal with
problems and stressfulsituations, like my brother, you
know, 10 years younger than me.
He's a good person at heart.
Right Inside he's a good person, but when something negative
happens in life, he just loseshis shit, like he just doesn't
know how to handle it.
(10:24):
Right now he's a smoker, he's,he's deals with alcoholism, he
has this bouts of you know, he'san alcoholic, and then he gets
clean for a little while andthen something really bad
happens and he falls back intoit.
Right, he's in and out of thatcycle.
And it's not because he's a baddude and he's actually a really
(10:47):
intelligent dude.
He just doesn't know how tocope with crisis in difficult
situations, right.
Todd (10:54):
Yeah, that happens, man, it's yeah.
But now would you say therewere people along the way that
kind of mentored you at allwhile you were coming up, or
what people along the way thatkind of mentored you at all
while you were coming up or what.
Brandon (11:12):
No man, that's why I'm such an anomaly to my own family
.
Right, they would even joke andsay that I was adopted and
stuff, because I was just sodifferent than everyone else.
I just always had this positiveoutlook on life that I just
felt like life was going to begreat for me and I'm not saying
it always has been, because I'vehad struggles, right.
And part of having thatpositive outlook is when life
(11:36):
wasn't great and I was in thepits and I was like, oh shit,
life isn't what I thought it wasgoing to be, and that's what
led at one point, to my suicideattempt.
Todd (11:47):
Yeah, I read.
There's a book HappinessHypothesis.
We've talked about it inprevious episodes, james and I
Basically scientific research.
They came out and said 50% ofyour happiness is associated
with genetics.
So your temperament and youroutlook on life and stuff like
that 50% of that is your genes.
What that means is some peopleare miserable, they're just like
(12:10):
Eeyore, while others are justgenerally happy.
So there's genetics.
But then there's 40% of ourhappiness is actually our own
choices, the activities that wechoose to dedicate ourselves to.
And then there's 10%circumstance.
That was the stat that reallyblew my mind.
10% is circumstances.
(12:31):
So you can live in poverty andsqualor, and they did research
studies, people that lived insqualor in India and stuff like
that these people living inpoverty but they're still happy.
That's possible.
So sounds like your genes werehelping you out there a bit.
Brandon (12:46):
Yeah, I mean I'm someone there's no scientific
evidence behind it but I'msomeone who definitely I'm sure
you've seen the memes and stuffthat life is 10% what happens to
you and 90% how you respond toit.
I mean I really buy into that,I really believe that you know,
(13:07):
something can happen to you inlife Like what happened, you
know the third time.
I got divorced, right, I lostmy wife, I lost my kids.
I got laid off from my job.
I lost my house.
Right, I had to sell my house.
I literally had you knownothing except clothes.
I had my clothes, right.
I had to give it all up in mydivorce and lost everything Left
(13:31):
.
A divorce with $25,000 worth ofcredit card debt that my ex-wife
had accumulated.
But because I was thebreadwinner and she was a
stay-at-home wife, the judgemade it my debt.
He didn't even split it.
He made it my debt right.
And then he made me still owealimony and child support, even
though we had 50-50 custody.
And he did all of this knowingI was unemployed, I had no job,
(13:56):
right.
So just getting divorced andbeing in that situation where
now I'm heartbroken, I'memotionally unhappy and oh, by
the way, I got about 50K worthof debt right here, that when I
finally do get back on track inlife now.
I got to get rid of this.
(14:17):
Really, how I responded in thatmoment was a big dictator in
what happened to me in life, andI responded in a decision to
give up.
I decided to give up, andthat's where my suicide attempt
came in.
Now I could have responded verydifferently, right, and things
would have gone differently, butthat was what I chose to do.
(14:40):
So it's just the decisions youmake in those difficult moments
are really the determiningfactors of what is going to
happen.
Todd (14:49):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, dude, that was a deep pit man that you
were in, so just understandableman.
Brandon (14:58):
And I got out of it.
Right, I crawled out of it.
I mean, not only for some yearsnow have I not been in debt.
I am living the best life I'veever lived.
You really just have to justput your mind in the right place
.
Todd (15:12):
Yeah, so let's move on to what were you into as a teen?
Any sports, or what'd you do?
Oh yeah.
Brandon (15:19):
Yeah, no, I was a pretty solid amateur athlete.
So I played basketball, Iplayed football, I was a pitcher
in baseball and then, when Ijoined the Air Force, I got into
volleyball and sportsabsolutely consumed me.
And then in my mid-20s I alsogot into weightlifting because I
(15:43):
was tired of being tall andskinny.
Right, I was noticing girlslike men with muscles, so I was
like, wow, I'm going to get mesome of those muscles then.
So yeah, sports and fitness andhealth have always been a big
part of my life.
Todd (15:58):
Yeah, I was working out at a gym as a teen and there was
this guy that was always in thelocker room looking at himself
and this guy was ripped and hewas.
He was always like, yeah, if itain't tight, it ain't right.
Yeah, oh, that's so funny.
So why'd you choose to join theair force?
How did that come about?
Brandon (16:16):
so yeah.
So I had, uh, three uncles whowere all in the military one was
in the air force, two were inthe army and all three of them
told me to join the air force.
So I thought, well, if that'snot a ringing endorsement, I
don't know what is.
So yeah, I joined the air forcebecause they basically said
(16:36):
it's the best one, go there.
Todd (16:38):
So that's what I did yep, I was in the marines and man the
air force.
I just saw they lived adifferent life.
It was in the Marines andmanned the Air Force.
Brandon (16:46):
I just saw they lived a different life.
It was yeah, the quality oflife is pretty damn good in the
Air Force.
Todd (16:49):
Yes, it was more family oriented, and my father-in-law
did 35 years in the Air Force.
He retired as a colonel and hedeployed to Vietnam for a year,
but I think he was in Thailandor something, and so that was a
one year away unaccompanied, butfor the rest of the time he was
with his family, so that was.
Brandon (17:08):
Yeah, I mean, I was a missile cop and I used to go out
in the field for three days ata time every week.
But I loved it because you know, the four days I had off every
week were mine.
So that's nice.
Todd (17:20):
Yeah, it was a hell of a schedule.
I loved it.
Yeah, that's what I tell kids.
Kids, if they're talking aboutthe military, I'm like you might
want to check out the Air.
Brandon (17:27):
Force yeah for sure, yeah.
Todd (17:29):
so how'd you end up leaving the Air Force?
Brandon (17:31):
Yeah, so you know, I was young, I was 20-ish, and I
had no male mentors in my lifeand I got screwed over by a
master sergeant that I had nevermet before.
He came out to the missilefacility that I was working at
and he was supposed to QC me, doa quality control check on me,
(17:55):
and it didn't happen because ofwork factors that were
reasonable and understandablethat it didn't happen at the
time, and so he left and it waslike an hour and a half drive,
one way to get out there, and hegoes back into the site and he
just writes up this false QCreport that he QC'd me and I
(18:19):
failed.
Todd (18:19):
What does QC?
Brandon (18:19):
stand for it's quality control.
It's basically like being yeah,it's basically like just being
tested on the job your jobknowledge and your job skill
right While you're actually onthe job, and if you don't pass,
you get decertified from the jobthat you do.
And so I was in this positioncalled flight security
(18:39):
controller, which was normallymet for an E6 or higher, and I
was doing it as an E3.
So I was one of the first E3sto ever hold this position.
As a matter of fact, I think Iwas the second in Air Force
history.
One guy had just beat me to itand you know I was high speed, I
was working hard, I thought theAir Force was going to be my
(19:01):
life, so I was trying reallyhard to do well and get promoted
and be airman of the quarterand all these things, and it's
just one asshole master sergeantderailed my entire career, and
when he did that to me, to methat was traumatic.
It was career ending for me,because now my whole career had
(19:23):
been derailed.
In my eyes Hindsight being 2020, now that I'm older and I can
see things in a different lightit wasn't as awful as I thought
it was at the time, but I didn'thave anyone to tell me that I
didn't.
I didn't know any better.
So for me, in my eyes at thattime, it meant the Air Force
wasn't for me anymore.
Todd (19:44):
Right, yeah, I mean the military.
It's like you got good leaders,you got bad leaders.
Sounds like that dude just hada beef.
I mean, he just sounds like abad leader man.
Brandon (19:54):
Never met him before, didn't know him from Adam and
I'll never forget him.
Master Sergeant Danford was hisname.
I mean, I don't even know ifhe's still alive anymore, but
you know, he just, for whateverreason, decided to take some
shit out on me, and I don't knowwhy.
Todd (20:11):
Yeah, my last unit.
We had good leadership when wedeployed, so that was cool.
My battalion commander was aguy named Mastin Robeson.
He ended up retiring as athree-star general.
We loved that dude but he was ahard man but he took care of us
so we called him Uncle Mastin.
(20:31):
So he left.
So we got back from fromdeployment and I had a few
months left.
We get a new batch of officersin man and it was bad leadership
.
Man, it was a battalioncommander, that was.
He was a beltway bandit so hecame down.
He wanted to get promoted tofull bird colonel but he had to
have a command billet and so hecame down.
He kept his house up in the DCarea, came down for his command
(20:52):
and it just yeah, he ended upgetting a lot of people hurt, so
that was just bad leadershipman.
Brandon (20:58):
Yeah, brother, bad leadership has been the story of
my life, whether I was in themilitary or whether it was my
corporate civilian career.
I've had a couple good onesalong the way, but those are the
few.
The many are the bad.
Todd (21:17):
Yeah, I mean, dude, I'm thankful because I had some
really good leaders in themilitary that looked past my
faults and took me aside andcoached me and were like, hey,
dude, you know what, give mesome tips on how to treat people
and stuff.
So it was cool, so I'm thankfulfor that.
I knew what good looked likewhen I left the military, so
(21:40):
that was cool.
So I knew what good leadershipwas, and I'm thankful for that.
Brandon (21:44):
Yeah, I would say one of the people that I'm thankful
for and I don't remember hisname, but he was like my
supervisor for I would say, lessthan a year.
We're talking months right.
While he was my supervisor, Iwas explaining to him like, look
, I really want to do well inthe Air Force, I want to fast
track rank.
(22:04):
I told him all this stuff.
He was like, yeah, he gave mesome things to do.
Two of the things that he gaveme to do that impacted me the
rest of my life.
One was volunteering.
I volunteered at a nursing home.
Oh, wow, dude, no way.
Yeah, when I was going to thesenursing homes, I was trying to
(22:28):
communicate with these olderpeople that are basically on
their deathbed and trying tocreate relationships with them.
I was trying to make the bestof just being there.
So I had come up with thesequestions like a way to talk to
them, but also, selfishly, I wastrying to benefit myself in
that these people had lived life, they were at the end of life,
(22:51):
so I wanted to tap into theirknowledge.
I wanted to learn whatever theyhad to give you know, because a
lot of people blow people offlike that, like oh, they're old,
they don't know anything, bullcrap.
They're a freaking fountain ofinformation, right, yeah, so I
tapped into that information andone of the questions that I
(23:13):
asked them, that really stuckRight.
And they all kept telling methat, dude, and it was not.
(23:35):
It's not like they were in agroup and we were talking in a
group setting.
I was talking to themone-on-one individually and they
all kept giving me this answer,and so that just freaking stuck
with me my whole life.
And so then the other thing iswith me my whole life.
And so then the other thing isis you know, I joined high
school, you know, like schoolwas never a thing I cared about
(24:01):
or even tried to care about orwas important in my family.
You know, education didn't meanshit to anyone in my family.
So I got out of high schoolwith like a, you know D average.
Right, I didn't do well atschool at all.
So to me the idea of collegewas just this foreign concept.
That was a thing that wouldnever happen in my life.
Same.
(24:22):
And I was sharing that with thatsupervisor at the time and he
was like, well, what was yourbest subject in high school?
And I said, well, I did dopretty well in math.
Math came pretty easily to me.
He said all right, I want youto take a college entry-level
math class, right.
And so I did.
And I didn't, you know I didn't.
(24:42):
I wasn't a full-time collegestudent or anything, so I didn't
take it too seriously.
But I still got like a B plusin the course, right.
And I thought, yeah.
And I thought, well, son of abitch, you know I can get a B
plus in a college math classwithout even really giving it.
You know my best effort.
And so those things stuck withme.
(25:06):
And so when that incidenthappened to me in the Air Force,
him doing that to me gave methe confidence to believe I had
what it takes to go to collegeright.
And if he hadn't done that, whoknows what I would have did.
Todd (25:19):
Same thing.
Same thing happened to me.
I was in high school and theheadmaster of the little school
I went to he just starts talkingto me.
I was a jerk kid, honestly, andI complained about my parents
and all this stuff and I wasalways, like you know, bad mouth
on my parents and complaining.
He looked past that andmentored me and he started
talking to me like, hey, so whenyou go to college and I'm like
(25:41):
me, go to college, that made animpact, dude.
And so I joined the militarywith the intent of, okay, I'm
going to use GI Bill to go tocollege.
And then when I seen some ofthe officers, I was like, eh,
these dudes can go throughcollege, I can't do it.
Brandon (25:59):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that does help, right, you meet
some people who arequote-unquote educated and you
think you're educated.
Okay, Sure.
Todd (26:10):
That was one of the greatest things about the
military is you get thrown intothis.
It's like a big melting pot ofall these different people from
all walks of life and you kindof start seeing where you stack
up and you're like I'm not thebest, not the worst and I think
I can kind of be okay-ish yeah.
Brandon (26:28):
And for me it was like I thought I was average or below
average, right, but I would dothings in boot camp, right, and
I would be at the head of thepack, for example.
And then we had like this,where I was stationed at, in
shitty ass Minot, north Dakota,they had like this all-star
(26:49):
championship thing where youwould do three holes of golf and
you would shoot you knowbaskets and you would shot put
right.
It was all these sports eventsput together like this decathlon
, but it will, you know, theydidn't call it that and I won
that thing, I won the wholething right.
And so it was like you know,maybe I am a little more than
(27:12):
average, you know, maybe youknow.
And so, yeah, all that stuffgave me confidence that I could
do and be more out of life thatI didn't know that I could do
yeah, dude, you said three holesof golf.
Todd (27:25):
That's the most air force thing that's awesome.
Brandon (27:28):
Yeah, and it was just all part of this competition.
It was a small part too.
I don't remember it was like 15events.
One was just like throwing afootball.
How far inaccurate could youthrow a football?
You had to throw it down likethe first baseline of a baseball
field.
They measured distance andaccuracy how close it was to the
(27:49):
line I threw that sucker 70yards Boy field and it was.
They measured distance andaccuracy how close it was to the
line I threw that through thatsucker 70 yards.
But, um, yeah, but I, you know,I was a baseball pitcher in my
in my early life so I had a hellof an arm, um, but yeah, it was
just.
It's just things like that thatthey throw you into and they
make you do.
I didn't have have to do thiscompetition, but stuff leading
(28:11):
up to this competition that justgives you that confidence and
understanding that you can dosome things.
Todd (28:19):
Yeah, that's cool man.
And you had that one mastersergeant dude.
He never took time to get toknow you.
He just sounds like that dude.
He was out to get somebody andso he just comes in and pencil
whipped you and yeah, that'sjust, that's bad dude.
So that's how you end upleaving the Air Force.
So your contract ended and youjust departed and so you joined
(28:40):
the military a second time.
So how did that transition?
So you were a civilian for atime and then you joined the
military again.
Can you talk about that?
Brandon (28:50):
I joined the army the second time.
So, yeah, I was gonna.
I finished my bachelor's degreein college and it was a
combination of I got a Bachelorof Arts in communications and
journalism because I wanted tobe a sportscaster, but that
wasn't working out where I wasliving in Dayton Ohio.
And so between that and acombination of being in a toxic
(29:15):
relationship where we couldn'tget along but we also couldn't
stay away from each other, Iknew I needed to change, I
needed to do something differentin my life.
So I tried to go back into theAir Force as an officer.
To make a long story short, arecruiter screwed me over, so I
walked into the hall of the armyand I said what do you guys got
(29:37):
?
And then they told me you knowwhat, what would happen if I
joined the army.
And so I decided kind of inthat moment I'm going to join
the army and I'm going toadvance my, I'm going to get a
master's degree while I'm in thearmy.
And so, yeah, I just made thatdecision to join the army and
I'm going to advance my, I'mgoing to get a master's degree
while I'm in the army.
And so, yeah, I just made thatdecision to join the army and
get a master's degree.
Todd (29:58):
Nice.
What'd you do in the army?
Brandon (29:59):
It's funny.
I took the ASVAB and I got Iguess someone told me this at
the wellness center, I don'tknow if it's true or not, but
she told me I got a perfectscore on the ASVAB.
I don't know what a perfectscore is, but she told me that I
did.
So.
I had this huge list of thingsI could pick to do when I joined
the army, and I don't know why,but I thought recon sounded
(30:22):
really cool and I was like, oh,I want to do that, I want to do
recon.
I was all gung ho in my mind,right, and then the recruiter.
This is where a recruiteractually didn't screw me over
for once in my life.
And he goes don't you want togo to college and get a master's
degree?
And I said, yeah, I do.
He said if you're recon, you'llalways be deployed, you'll
(30:44):
always be gone.
You won't get that master'sdegree.
And I said, all right, right.
Well then, what do you?
You know, looking at this liston a computer screen, I'm like
well, what do you recommend I do?
And he points and he goes pickthat one.
And I go food inspector, youwant me to be a food inspector?
He's like man, trust me, that'san easy job.
(31:06):
You'll work monday throughfriday.
Yeah, he said you'll be off at4 30 every day.
You'll have evenings andweekends to yourself.
You want that if you're goingto school.
And I said all right.
So, yeah, I picked foodinspection for that reason,
that's great yeah.
So you got the master's degreewhile you're in the army, then
yeah, I did get an MBA andthat's why I got out of the army
(31:28):
, because I went through thesame thing.
Frankly, I hated the Army.
I had bad leadership, reallybad leadership in the Army.
It's not even comparable to theAir Force.
The Air Force was a thousandtimes better than the Army.
I just had one bad incident inthe Air Force where I had just a
terrible four years in the Army, frankly.
(31:52):
But I still thought about one ofmy good friends in the army.
He was a staff sergeant.
He got direct commission tosecond lieutenant for
environmental health because hehad a degree in environmental
health and he kept trying totell me here I was an E-5
sergeant and he was a captain,right, and we were hanging out
(32:13):
and my leadership's all pissedoff because I'm hanging out with
an officer, right, but he usedto be a staff sergeant and he
got commissioned.
So we were friends before hebecame an officer.
But he's constantly trying toconvince me just become an
officer, you'll love it, it's amuch better life.
So I had him in my ear tellingme that.
(32:35):
But then I had another guy whowas a chief warrant officer.
He was a CW3.
And he was like no man, you getthat MBA and you get the hell
out.
You go make some real money.
You're not going to make realmoney as an officer in the army.
Go make real money with thatMBA.
And so between the two of themand I just didn't want to go.
I didn't want to go through OCSbecause you, you had to run
(32:58):
like five miles in 45 minutesand I freaking hate running.
Um, yeah, yeah.
So I was going to be timed on afive mile and I was like, uh, I
don't know if I want to do that.
His name was Matt.
I said Matt, I don't know if Iwant to do that.
His name was Matt.
I said Matt, I don't know if Iwant to do that.
I don't know if it's worth itto me.
You got direct commissioned.
If I got direct commissioned,it might be worth it.
So then I just decided to getout and go.
(33:21):
Let my MBA take me where ittakes me.
Todd (33:24):
Yeah, dude, I mean the military.
It's the careerists that arejacking the place up, man.
Yeah, it's like you know, I hadsome good leaders, but then the
careerists were the ones thatthey were just bad leaders.
They were out for themselvesand they just jacked people over
.
So I'm glad I did the military,but I'm glad I got out.
(33:45):
I've had a good career and I'veenjoyed myself.
Brandon (33:48):
Well, even the negative things that happen, you learn
from right.
So and I've enjoyed myself Well, even the negative things that
happen, you learn from right.
So you get a lot of learningexperience in the military,
whether it's from positive ornegative, but you still get a
lot of learning experience.
Todd (34:02):
Yeah, it's good man.
I mean it helps me when, like,if I'm interviewing for a job,
I'm talking to the hiringmanager, I can ask some just
nondescript questions and theiranswers to that reveal a lot.
So it's like, oh, okay, cool.
Brandon (34:14):
Yeah, the choice of picking what you want to do for
a living, a choice of leavingright If you're at a job that
you hate, is miserable.
Whatever you start looking foranother job on your own, free
will, you find one and you justleave.
You can't do that in themilitary.
You just leave.
You can't do that in themilitary.
Todd (34:33):
Oh man, all right, so that was the military career.
So let's circle back onrelationships.
So how did your childhoodimpact your relationships, like
with family and coworkers?
Brandon (34:45):
Yeah, oh man, that's a good question.
I've always been a prettyhonest, good dude.
Before I knew what the goldenrule was, it was how I lived
life.
I always treated people the wayI wanted to be treated.
But I didn't have it in thosewords, it just was natural to me
(35:05):
, to me.
And so, you know, I would makefriends pretty easily and I
would get close to people.
And you know, I had a lot ofheartache that way, a lot of
pain, because I've had a lot offriends and family even a little
bit screw me over because theywere so selfish and self-serving
(35:28):
, right, and I wasn't like that.
I was the type of guy that youknow you could leave me with.
I could stay the night withyour girlfriend.
I would never try to hit on her.
I had friends.
Try to hook up with mygirlfriends or wives or you know
whatever, yeah, and you knowjust things that were
devastating to me because Iwould never treat someone that
(35:51):
way.
And so, yeah, I had to learn alot of hard lessons from getting
close to the wrong people,because the bar was low for me,
right?
I grew up around alcoholics anddrug addicts, right?
So if you weren't an alcoholicand drug addict and you were
trying to do something with yourlife.
You must be a decent person,right, not necessarily.
Todd (36:12):
Right, yeah, yeah.
So it sounds like the impactwas not being able to read
people, perhaps.
Yeah.
Brandon (36:19):
Yeah, and I overcompensated with that and I
focused really, really hard onlearning how to do that and now
I feel like I'm very, very goodat reading people, because I
just didn't want to be caughtlike that anymore.
Todd (36:36):
I had dude.
I had the same thing, man.
It was like when I became anadult, it was like latching onto
people, you know, and kind ofattaching to them, and it was
not a good thing, because noteverybody's good.
Brandon (36:47):
So, yeah, I had very similar things going on, man
yeah, no, I was a guy that, youknow, when I was in the air
force, between 70 and 20, I Iwould have thought I had like 30
to 50 friends, right like, andI would have called them quote
unquote friends.
Right now I'm a guy that I havefour good friends in my life,
four.
Only one of them lives even inthe same town.
(37:11):
The other three are militarydudes that were actually the
good people that I connectedwith in my military life, but
they live in other parts of theworld.
Todd (37:21):
Yeah, we think we have a lot of friends when we're young.
Brandon (37:25):
Yeah, we do, and you find out.
Yeah, no, sure, don't.
Todd (37:30):
How did you get to the point where you said hey, I need
to seek professional help.
Can you talk about that?
Brandon (37:35):
Well, the first time it happened, it was thrown on me.
So what happened was when Ifirst got in the Air Force, I
was dating this really beautifulblonde girl, the most beautiful
girl I had ever been with Right.
And then I was out in themissile field and it was let me
stop you there, cause that's the, the pretty girls are in the
(37:56):
air force, so well, she wasn't.
Her dad was.
She was a daughter of an airforce, she was a military brat,
um, and I was only 17, and shewas actually only 17.
She was a senior in high school, and some people had problems
with that because I was in theair force and she was in high
school, but we were the same age, we were both 17.
So, you know, we're both young,stupid, we don't.
(38:20):
Who knows what a relationshipis at 17 years old, right?
But I was hooked on her man, Imean, I, I thought I was in love
with this girl.
She's the one, yeah, yeah,right, I mean, for me at that
point in life, she was by farthe best thing that had happened
to me as far as girls go.
And I was out in the missilefield first day and she calls me
(38:42):
and she's just talking to meand I'm like what'd you do today
?
And you know, she innocentlysays like, oh, you know, yeah, I
met this guy and he took me fora ride on his motorcycle and I
was like what you know?
And she proceeds to tell methis story as if it's this
innocent thing, right, and ofcourse I got pissed off and I
(39:04):
didn't see it as innocent, right.
And I got upset and you know,she just went into defensive
mode and was like I didn't doanything wrong.
You know, blah, blah, blah,whatever.
We ended up breaking up, right.
And it's my first day out inthe missile field and I'm like I
don't want to be out here,right.
So in my head I'm upset, I'mhurt, I'm kind of scheming, like
(39:26):
how can I get the hell back tobase because I don't want to be
out here.
And so I told my flightsergeant that I was going to
kill myself, right?
I didn't I didn't actually meanit, right, but I was so young
and stupid and naive that Ithought they would just take me
off duty because I carried, youknow, an m16 as a weapon.
(39:46):
I was a.
No, that's not what happened atall.
So they were like they took meinto base, they took me to the
hospital.
The hospital drugged me and thenext time I woke up I was in a
stretcher on a flight toLackland Air Force Base, to the
mental health facility.
(40:07):
Wow.
Todd (40:08):
Okay, yeah, wow, grippy socks, yeah.
Wow, yeah, grippy socks, yeah,yeah, oh, my word.
Brandon (40:15):
Wow.
Todd (40:15):
That's pretty dramatic, dude.
Brandon (40:17):
It was really dramatic, right, and I get there in, like
these counselors and therapistsare, you know, oh, you know,
how can we help you?
Blah, blah, blah, and I'm like,look, I didn't want to kill
myself, I was just in thissituation.
And so they didn't want torelease me because they didn't
(40:38):
believe me.
They thought I was just sayingbullshit, because I didn't want
to open up or whatever.
And then finally, after acouple of weeks, they were like
all right, he must be tellingthe truth, because he stuck to
this story for a couple of weeksand they finally let me go.
And you know, but I did get,you know, I had to sit in group
therapy sessions, I had to see atherapist and I actually did
(40:58):
see some good stuff behind doingthat, even though, you know, I
wasn't really suicidal at thattime.
So I, yeah, it, it, it, I guess, tapped me into the possibility
of getting help.
Todd (41:15):
Yeah Well, that, oh wow, that's dramatic, but it's like
then you start to go okay, cool,I've learned some things here.
Brandon (41:21):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's what we need to do in
every bad situation.
Right Is, learn something fromit.
Todd (41:27):
Wow, dude's, that's pretty cool, it's uh, I just wanted to
get off duty yeah, yeah, Ireally did.
Brandon (41:35):
I mean, we made fun of it, right, I played flag
football.
When I got back, I put psychoon the back of my jersey, right,
like we had a good time with it, because you know me and my
friends laughed about it, but uh, it was a stupid thing to do
for sure.
Todd (41:50):
Another thing I love about the military is how we just
make fun of each other.
Yeah, you know you got to laugh, man it's.
But so, over time, though, howhas therapy and education helped
you overcome the past?
Brandon (42:02):
Well, so education has just opened doors for me.
I mean, obviously it's probablymade me more intelligent in
some ways that you can't really,I guess, put a finger on right,
because you don't really learn.
You don't really remember whatyou learned in school, right?
I don't remember what I learnedgetting my bachelor's degree or
my MBA, I don't really, if theydon't get an education right, I
(42:37):
don't know that for sure.
I'm just talking about myexperience.
But just having the educationopened doors for me that I would
not have had opened if I didn'tget the education, so that was
really beneficial.
And I actually forgot the otherpart of your question.
Todd (42:55):
How did therapy and education help you overcome?
Brandon (42:58):
the past.
Oh yeah.
So therapy I told you this.
We had a conversation before wedid this podcast I've seen like
a dozen therapists in my lifeand I only met one or saw one
that was actually good andactually worked.
And the reason I think thatthat's pertinent and important
is because I've heard otherpeople say, oh, I've gone to
(43:20):
therapy, it doesn't work right.
So all that means is you justdidn't meet the right therapist.
You didn't find the right one,because when I found the right
one, she was life-altering forme.
She was life-saving for me.
She really helped me a lot inlife.
She helped me see myself in adifferent light when the rest of
(43:43):
the world is making youquestion yourself and who you
are and what you're doing.
She really brought me back tomy center of who I am and what
I'm doing in life, and so shewas hugely beneficial in my life
.
So if you think therapy doesn'twork, you just haven't found
the right one.
Todd (44:04):
Right, like you said, most are not a good fit.
I'll say that just to be.
You got to find one that's agood fit for you, but there are
a lot out there that it's likeit's formulaic for them and
they'll email you a document toread that's and it's like can
you put in less effort?
Brandon (44:22):
So, if that I mean, I used to go see a marriage
therapist with my wife, you know, and she would be like, oh, I'm
gonna send you something to dothis, or I'm going to send you
something to do that, or we'lltalk about this in next session,
and those things just didn'thappen, like it was just talk,
no follow through.
Todd (44:40):
Yeah, but when you find a good someone that's been trained
, yeah, really knows what theheck they're doing and cares,
yeah, they can dig in with youand just go, you know they're
not telling.
It's not like TV.
They're not sitting theretelling you what to do and
they're just working with you.
Yeah, they don't know A goodcounselor.
They know they don't know andthey're just exploring things
(45:01):
with you, but they've hadtraining to be able to guide you
.
When you reveal something to agood, trained therapist, they
have the knowledge to be able tosay ah, okay, and then just
gently guide you down the pathto finding healing, to growth.
Brandon (45:15):
Yeah, and the key to her versus other therapists was
you know, with other therapistsis like, oh, have you tried this
?
Have you tried that you coulddo differently, this differently
?
You could do that, that youcould do differently, this
differently, you could do thatWhereas she was like, oh, this
(45:40):
is what would work best for you,or oh, you're doing the right
thing.
She showed me to believe inmyself and what I'm already
doing, whereas other therapistswere trying to make me change
and do things differently, whichwas what was causing all the
confusion and the problem in thefirst place, because I was
trying to be somebody that Ithought I should be, not who I
actually was or wanted to be,and she really honed that in and
(46:02):
worked that out.
Todd (46:03):
That's awesome, man.
Yeah, so you spent a lot oftime doing the inner work, yeah,
yeah, yeah, just putting inthat time, dude, we all have to
do that, and so it sounds thenlike you've had multiple
relationships and whatnot.
How have your relationshipschanged with family and
coworkers and whatnot as aresult of that inner work?
Brandon (46:26):
Multiple ways right With family, like wives.
For example, I'm on my fourthwife.
It really took me threefailures to find out what I
needed for the right person, andthings that I thought I needed
turns out I didn't need right, Ineeded other things that I
didn't realize before, and sothat helped me find the right
(46:49):
person for who I am married tonow, and I have by far you know
people.
Oh, you know this is just yourfourth marriage.
This marriage could fail too.
Yeah, you're right, it could,but it's by far the best
relationship I've ever had in myentire life, and so that is
positive enough right there andalso makes me feel like this
(47:12):
relationship isn't going to failbecause things don't happen
where you feel like it couldlead to failure, whereas my
other relationships have bouncedup and down and all over the
place, and sometimes you'retrying to survive and make it
work when you know really you'rejust trying to, you know, make
something good out of somethingthat's not good, and so that's
(47:35):
how it's helped me in mypersonal married life and with
family and stuff.
I learned that, you know,because I grew up under the
mantra you can't pick yourfamily, your family is family,
right.
So that made me feel like youhave to put up with all the
bullshit your family bringsright, all the negativity, all
the backstabbing, whatever it isthey bring that you have to put
(47:59):
up with it.
And then I learned like youdon't have to do that, right,
yeah, so you can choose thepositive forces in your life,
the positive people, and you canlet them be a part of your life
.
And then the negative forcesand the negative people, you
push them out, you get them outof your life.
It doesn't matter if it's afamily member or a friend or
(48:21):
whatever.
If they're not making your lifebetter in some way, they don't
need to be a part of it.
So that was something I had tolearn along the way as well.
Todd (48:30):
This episode is brought to you by the therapeutic word
boundaries.
True, true, uh, I've heard.
I heard the word in the pastand it was like okay, cool,
whatever, boundaries, that'slegit, dude, that's the thing
they have around states rightboundaries boundaries.
So yeah, you gotta, and youhave to stand up for those
(48:51):
boundaries, because otherwisepeople just run over you.
Brandon (48:54):
Man, it's uh anyway, yeah no, I I was too nice when I
was young and people did takeadvantage of my kindness and you
know wives have taken advantageof my kindness.
But now I'm much more of theage and credence of don't
mistake my kindness for weakness.
(49:17):
I fight back now and I willstand up for myself.
Todd (49:21):
Yeah, I mean, on top of everything you went through in
childhood, you also lost adaughter.
You feel like talking aboutthat?
Brandon (49:28):
Yeah, it's an ugly story.
It's not beautiful for anyone,but I was 22 years old.
My wife at the time, my firstwife.
She had gotten pregnant, whichwasn't supposed to happen.
She was supposed to be on birthcontrol, so this wasn't
supposed to be a thing that wassupposed to be a part of our
life.
(49:48):
So it was an accident, if youwill.
And so she's pregnant, she'scoming along and you're starting
to get the idea of all right,well, I'm going to be a parent.
Right, I'm going to be a dad.
So you start getting on boardwith that idea and then early in
the pregnancy I think aroundthe five-month mark she starts
(50:10):
coming out.
My wife at the time had a weakcervix and nobody knew that.
That's something you can't knowuntil you're pregnant and you
find out you have a weak cervix,right.
So they did all this stuff.
They tried flipping my wife atthe time upside down because the
baby was starting to come out,and have it go back inside of
(50:30):
her.
And she was upside down, dude,for almost four days.
I want to say it's like threeto four days and the doctor
comes in and he's like, lookshe's, she's not going back up
in there, and if we don't flipyou upside down, you're gonna
die, right.
And my wife at the time she'sso stubborn, she's like I don't
(50:50):
care, let me die, you know, saveher.
And it's like duh, you can't,you can't save her.
If you die, you're, you know,you're the, you're the survival.
So so, yeah, so, you know he'slike he flips her back over and
he's like look, she's gonna comeout.
You know you're gonna givebirth to her.
She's gonna cry, she's gonnascream, it's, she's gonna sound
(51:11):
normal, but her lungs areunderdeveloped and there's
nothing.
You know you're going to givebirth to her.
She's going to cry, she's goingto scream, she's going to sound
normal, but her lungs areunderdeveloped and there's
nothing we can do for you andshe's going to die, she's going
to pass.
And so, yeah, we went throughthat.
We went through you know hersitting there giving birth.
She comes out.
You hold her.
She's a screaming, cryinglittle girl until she's just not
anymore.
(51:31):
And then she's gone.
Yeah, and it was the worstthing I've ever gone through,
and I've gone through a lot ofbad things in life.
That was the worst thing I'veever gone through.
Todd (51:43):
Dude, that's grievous man.
I'm sorry, dude oh yeah, it'sbrutal.
Brandon (51:48):
Yeah, wouldn't wish that on anyone Losing a child.
Todd (51:52):
Sorry, man, yeah.
So let's step it up a littlebit, yeah so yeah, fun topic for
sure.
That's rough, brother, I'msorry man, but that's all right.
Brandon (52:06):
I mean, it is what it is.
It happened, I can't doanything about it.
Todd (52:09):
Yeah.
So I mean, what was your careertrajectory after you left the
military?
How's life worked out sincethen?
It's crazy.
Brandon (52:17):
Life is crazy.
It's been up and down, for sure, and it's been more up in
recent years, but it tookmultiple years of adulthood for
me to make it steady like that.
It's been a roller coaster ride, for sure.
I've had to start over fourtimes in life with nothing.
(52:39):
I've had to start from nothingfour times in life and it's
exhausting.
It's exhausting as a matter offact, the fourth time when I did
attempt suicide and I haddecided to give up, I had gotten
a divorce I didn't want to get,which means I lost my wife.
I lost my kids.
(53:01):
I got laid off at the exact sametime while I was going through
the divorce, had to sell myhouse house.
When I went through the divorce, my wife had accumulated
$25,000 worth of credit carddebt.
The judge made me keep becauseI was the breadwinner and she
was the stay-at-home wife.
So he made me take on the 25Kdebt, even though I was laid off
(53:28):
.
And then he also ordered me topay her spousal maintenance and
child support, even though wehad 50-50 custody of the kids.
I was like 50K in debt,unemployed, nowhere to live, no
job.
I was done.
I was ready to give up in life,so that was the lowest point as
far as what I was going throughpersonally in life.
(53:50):
Still, the worst thing thatever happened to me was losing a
daughter.
But that was the lowest pointin life where I just thought
well, there's just no reason forme to be here anymore.
I can't overcome the obstaclesthat life has thrown at me.
And that's how I looked at it.
I looked at it like I was avictim of life, and so that beat
(54:11):
me, it won and I gave up.
But I did.
Obviously, I didn't die.
I lived.
I took a full bottle of Ambienand someone called the ambulance
and they saved my life.
When I woke up, I was mad, I wasangry that I was still alive, I
wanted to be dead.
But then I, like a flipswitched inside of me.
(54:32):
I was angry that I was stillalive, I wanted to be dead, but
then I, like a flip switchedinside of me or I say that wrong
a switch flipped inside of methat it was like well, if I'm
going to live, I can't keepliving like this.
I have to change my life and Ihave to change what it is and my
outlook and what it's become.
(54:52):
So then I just did, I just madea decision right then and there
that, whatever it took, I wasgoing to get back on my feet.
I was going to get rid of allthat debt that credit card debt,
that spousal maintenance, childsupport and I was going to make
myself a great life.
(55:12):
And through hard work anddetermination I did, and so I
had the best career I've everhad.
I have the best marriage andrelationship I've ever had.
I mean my outlook on life justin general period.
When bumps come in, they don'thave this big, huge shockwave
effect on me like they used tohave, like, oh, why does this
(55:35):
stuff happen to me?
Right, you just kind of handleit in stride and realize it will
pass and there's still plentyof other great things to be
thankful for and happy about,and you focus on those and, yeah
, my life is the best it's everbeen and has been for a few
years now.
Todd (55:55):
That's inspiring dude.
I'm happy for you, man.
Brandon (55:58):
Thank you, man, and I want that for other people.
That's the thing about it.
This podcast came about in I'mlife coaching because I don't
want people to have to gothrough what I've gone through
to get here Right and you don'thave to.
You don't have to.
I didn't have mentors, I didn'thave someone to guide me.
(56:20):
I had to go through this shitto get here.
But I want to help other peopleso they don't have to.
Todd (56:28):
And that is I mean you extend that to military veterans
as well.
You want to talk about that?
Brandon (56:33):
Yeah, I mean, of course , military veterans, the most
suicidal males on this earth.
Right, they just are.
Eight out of every 10 suicidesis men.
Men are just suicidal period ingeneral, but when you look at
percentages, military veteransare the highest by far.
(56:54):
And so I wanted to reach out tothem and get to them and see
whatever I can do, whatevercommunity I can create, whatever
kind of people I can surroundthem with, to let them know that
they can get through whateverthey're going through, and
suicide is not the answer.
That's my mission, that's whatI'm trying to do.
(57:16):
So there's a long way to go onthat, but that's what I'm trying
to do.
Todd (57:20):
Yeah, with military it's like you've got that community
and you've got that camaraderie,you've got those connections
with other people in yoursquadron, platoon, whatever,
yeah, and then you leave and yougo to civilian life and that's
gone.
And that is a huge mental blockfor people to overcome.
Yeah, when I get older and youlook back and you miss that, and
(57:42):
so I can see, man, why peoplewant to check out.
Brandon (57:45):
Well, what I love about military veterans is, you know,
when we're in the military,when we're actually active duty,
right, we all talk shit.
It's like it's almost like afraternity of a college, right.
Like, oh, I'm in the air force,I'm Ohio state, oh, you're in
the Marines, you're Michigan,right, like we, we shit on each
other and make fun of each other, but once we're out, we're just
(58:06):
all veterans, right.
It doesn't matter what branchof service you are in.
You know, that connection isjust there because, oh, you went
through some shit.
No, okay, yeah, you're militarytoo, right.
So it's a bond that I try totell people, like, as someone
who's been an athlete in thecorporate world.
You can't find that bondanywhere else.
(58:28):
No, nowhere.
Todd (58:30):
It's awesome, dude.
There is struggle, there is,there's just hardship, and that
shared hardship and living withpeople 24-7 is, yeah.
You can't make thoseconnections in civilian life.
So, no, no, so that's how youended up starting your podcast
life.
It's crazy.
Anything else you want to shareabout the podcast?
Brandon (58:48):
If you know anyone who's struggling or going
through a difficult time andthey're having a hard time
seeing a way through or findinga way out, listen to the podcast
.
I do bring on a lot of peoplewho are there to support and
help others that have gonethrough that situation, and they
(59:09):
vary, they're different typesof people.
For that exact reason, right, Ican't personally connect with
everyone, and I don't just meanbecause it's physically
impossible, I mean because maybeeveryone's experience isn't the
same as mine and they don'tconnect with me on a mental and
emotional level, right.
So I try to bring on guests whoalso have been through some
(59:32):
trauma or have been suicidal orthe very least had suicidal
ideations if they neverattempted, and maybe they
connect with them better, maybethey identify with what they're
going through better, and thenthat's someone they can connect
with and get help from.
And so that's really what I'mtrying to do, by bringing just a
(59:53):
vast array of types of peoplefrom every it doesn't matter man
, doctors, lawyers, whatevercareer you can think of.
I've come across people whohave either been suicidal
ideations or they've actuallyattempted it.
There's always someone on therefor people to connect with.
Todd (01:00:13):
That's great.
I mean, we need that connection, man.
That's what we're missing, andespecially in affluent America.
We're just disconnected.
You just see, social media man,we're not connected to people.
When you're just seeingsomeone's best day of their life
on social media, man, that canmake you depressed.
So yeah, yeah.
So thanks for starting yourpodcast, man.
(01:00:34):
We need that dude, we needcommunity, we need people to be
connected.
So that's good stuff.
Brandon (01:00:40):
Thank you, man.
Thanks for having me on too.
Todd (01:00:42):
Yeah.
So I mean, what takeaway do youwant to leave with our
listeners?
Brandon (01:00:44):
Yeah, the biggest takeaway I like to tell people
is no matter what it is you'regoing through or have gone
through and you might be in abad place right now in life just
remember this too shall passright.
Don't live in the moment, livefor the big picture, right?
No matter how hard the momentis right now, work towards the
(01:01:09):
big picture.
Just take the right steps, dothe right things and things will
fall into place for you.
And just remember it will pass.
Whatever you're going through,it will pass.
Todd (01:01:21):
That's true.
Now, here's what resonated withme just listening to you A lot
of people, man, they're dealingwith terrible situations.
Everybody's got trials andstruggles in life and we have to
choose a response.
Yeah, and the best thing we cando is talk about it to other
people.
Yeah, and I've said this manytimes here on the podcast, but
(01:01:42):
the best thing I took away fromthe military is that connection
and knowing how to talk to otherpeople.
So when we were forwarddeployed, it was like we spent
hours talking to one another.
When you're just downtime atnight and you got nothing to do
and you're just sitting theretelling stories and, dude, that
connection we all need that.
(01:02:02):
Another thing that occurs to mehere is that I mean, we can be
in the depths of failure anddespair, but there's always hope
.
Yeah, and man, just listeningto your story, dude, that really
brought that to mind.
Also, the bad things thathappen to us they don't define
who we are, they don't have toRight, and for me, that's
another reason to get help indealing with that because, okay,
(01:02:25):
bad things happen to us andoftentimes we feel shame as a
result of that.
Getting professional help todeal with that, to process those
things, dude.
That's invaluable.
I'm thankful for it.
I mean, reach out and get thathelp that you need right.
Brandon (01:02:39):
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the best things is you
can understand is you don't haveall the answers.
Right, nobody has all theanswers.
So, just like you would want tolearn, maybe, how to fix a car,
for example, if that wassomething you're into, you got
to learn how to fix your brainor go through situations that
you weren't prepared for.
Right, you don't have theanswers, so go to someone that
(01:03:02):
does.
Todd (01:03:03):
Yeah, I mean, we go to orthos for our physical
conditions, exactly.
They're people that help workon your brain too, so they're
trained.
We can wrap it up at this point, but look for the Life is Crazy
podcast on your podcastplatforms, and I'm going to
include a link in thedescription that'll take you to
all of Brandon's platforms.
Just click the link, listen tohis podcast or reach out to him
(01:03:25):
for life coaching if you needthat, but I'll put a link in the
description.
Brandon, we appreciate yourtime, brother.
Thanks so much, man.
Yeah, thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.
All right, we'll be talkingagain, man.
Now I invite you to check outthe links in the description If
you want to pick up the books wecover on the podcast.
They'll be there.
We're an Amazon partner, so wedo earn from these purchases to
(01:03:45):
you, so thanks so much forjoining and James, enjoy the
chat.
Yeah, very, very insightful,appreciate it.
Thanks for our listeners.
We look forward to seeing y'allnext time.
Have a great day.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.