Mastering Breath Work: Techniques for Pain Relief and Peak Performance with Ken O'Shea of Refuge Reset

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey everybody.
This is the coach U podcast, andI'm your host coach.
U, this podcast is about beingcurious, learning from others
and using what we've learned toevolve every single day.
Hey, what's up, everyone.
In today's episode, we're beingjoined by Ken O'Shea.
Who's a longtime friend of mineand we played soccer and
baseball together, growing upand he turned exercise

(00:23):
physiologists.
He works on the human body,whether it be breath, work.
Bodywork through soft tissue,manipulation so you might be
thinking, why am I having anexercise physiologist onto the
episode?
Well, if you're an athlete andyou play a lot of sports, you
definitely want to tune intothis episode to see how you can
get a leg up on yourcompetition.
By just improving your breedingmechanics and how you're doing
it.
But that's not it.

(00:44):
Even if you don't play sports,you can absolutely pick up
something from this episodebecause everybody breathes.
A lot.
18 to 20,000 breaths a day.
In fact, can you imagine if youcan improve those breaths, just
how much they can improve youroverall wellbeing.
after having our conversationand learning what the breath
does and just how much itimpacts everything, including

(01:04):
pain receptors.
It really opened up my eyes tounderstanding how much more
conscious I needed to be aboutmy breath work.
One huge thing is mental health.
We all know how important it is.
On a daily basis, it can bereally stressful, especially if
you have kids and a job and allthese other responsibilities,
sometimes being able to take astep back and taking a breath in
the proper manner.

(01:25):
Could help you.
Reduce stress, improve yourmental performance and your
focus, and also just make youfeel better overall.
As an athlete, I can tell you,I've tried these different
tactics and it's difficult toget them down right away.
But as soon as you start topractice them, just like with
anything else in the performanceworld.
You will get them down.
It just takes time.

(01:45):
It takes a little bit ofdedication, but the cool thing
is in this episode, Ken's goingto break all that down for you.
And all you have to do is followalong and take notes if you like
this episode and you know, otherpeople would pick up something
valuable from this, please giveit a share and make sure other
people know about this as wellas we grow the Coach U podcast.
Thanks everyone.
Hope you enjoy this episode withKen O'Shea.

Coach U (02:10):
Hey, what's up everybody.
Welcome to the coach youpodcast.
I'm your host coach U today.
We're being joined by an oldfriend, Kenny O'Shea, who I went
to high school with.
We played soccer together,travel soccer, and we played
baseball together.
Kenny, thanks so much forjoining man.
Good to see you.

Kenny O'shea (02:25):
Yeah.
Nice to see you too, man.
Thanks so much for having me.

Coach U (02:27):
Absolutely.
After I saw that what you'redoing and in the performance
world, it's so different thanwhat I'm used to.
And I wanted to pick your brainon it, but before we dive into
that, let's get everybody alittle idea of who you are.
Please introduce yourself andlet them know what you do and
who you work with.

Cool.
Yeah.
So my name is Ken O'Shea orKenny O'Shea.
I work with a lot of differenttypes of clients, whether that
be people who are strugglingwith pain, stress, and anxiety,
or people who are looking forways to kind of upgrade their
performance a little bit becausethey're dealing with one of
those things or just becausethey need a little extra support
to get to that next level, youknow, just that little 1 percent
of change to try to keep Ascompetitive as possible.

(03:06):
My client range honestly is allover the place.
As far as age goes my youngestclient now is a year and a half.
My oldest client is 93.
So it's not like it's a one sizefit all type of A bag that I do.
And I really try to adjust, youknow what we're working on
together with the client basedon what their goals are, you
know and what, what they'redealing with.
So that's kind of where I, Icome from.

(03:28):
I do a lot of different thingswith clients, whether that be
body work, breath work appliedneurology and just general
coaching and, and movement.
I don't do as much movement as Iused to just because I don't
have the facility anymore.
But that's kind of where I gotmy start was in movement and
personal training and exercisescience.
And now I've learned how to kindof pair those things with the
body, work with the breath workso I can give people homework to

(03:49):
do at home so that they haveexercises and movements to help
reinforce the things that we'reworking on when we're in
session.
Yeah.
So that's kind of how I round itall together.

Coach U (03:56):
Before we jump into the science and the nitty gritty,
let's talk about you as aperson.
I want to ask some quickquestions.
So first of all, what's yourfavorite TV show?

Oh man, I've been thinking about this Shameless.
Shameless is by far one of, Ithink is one of the funniest
shows, you know, of all time as,and each time you watch it,
you're just like, this couldn'tget any crazier,

Coach U (04:16):
So shameless.
What about your favorite band ormusician?

Oh man, that's hard because, you know, Just
like the work that I do, I haveso many different genres that
I'll follow and go into youknow, I think that's part of my
personalities that I kind ofpull from many different
sources.
I think if you had, if I had to,if I had to go see one band and
I can only pick one band, Ithink I'd go with the red hot
chili peppers.
I think that they are just.
They've been around for so long.
They've done so many differenttypes of music.

(04:41):
They've, you know, reallyevolved over the years and, you
know, each time they come outwith a new album, it's just
great.
So yeah, I'd say that's probablymy favorite band.
But you know, that's just onetype of music.
You know, I love everything fromold school, R and B to reggae to
classic rock to, you know, thenI do classical when I'm working
and studying and things likethat.
So it's, I'm.
I'm all over the map.
I always am.

Coach U (05:02):
So you're in the performance world.
What's your favorite thing aboutbeing in the performance world
and helping those who arelooking to whether it be sport
or just overall perform betteras a human?
What do you love most about it?

just that, helping, you know, I think
that's my favorite part, and theproblem solving for me, that's,
that's what kind of gets meexcited is that someone comes in
with X, Y, and Z, and I have tofigure out how they're either
all connected or not.
And what are the, what is thesimplest thing that I could get
them to start to do?
That is really going to start tomove the needle for them.

(05:36):
You know, so for me the humanbody is amazingly complex and
because it's amazingly complex,it's always a very unique puzzle
to try to solve.
And that's probably my favoritepart is that I get to help
people by trying to, you know,work through all this different
testing and techniques andthings like that to see what is
the best thing for this person.

(05:56):
And so, and each day isdifferent, You know, you think
that.
Someone comes in, you've seenthem several times and you
think, Oh, okay.
Yeah.
We're just going to do X, Y, andZ.
And they come in and you'redoing your evaluation and stuff.
And you're like, Oh, this personis something's totally
different.
And now I got to go a completelydifferent route than I had
planned for today.
And, you know, so kind of beingable to be nimble and the
problem solve like that, I thinkis my favorite part.
And that no two people are thesame and that the human body

(06:19):
itself is so complex that I'llnever learn it all.
So there's just an endlessopportunity to continue to grow
and to learn when it comes toreally studying the human body.
So,

Coach U (06:28):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more with that, man.
It's, it's crazy.
The same client will come in andit's energy depending on how
they're feeling.
It could have been, they didn'tsleep well.
They have stressors going on intheir life.
So all those things are supereffective and it'd be the same
person.
But yeah, being nimble, beingable to adjust, I definitely can
relate to that.
let's, let's talk about theimportance of breath work and
maybe a couple of differentexamples of things that you can

(06:50):
do throughout the day, you know,maybe to help yourself with your
breathing.

So the easiest way to kind of dive into this is to
realize that your breathinghelps determine your nervous
system state.
So one of the easiest ways tostart to figure out where you
are is to start to examine yourbreath, So there's basically now
depending on who you follow ifyou go all the way down
polyvagal theory and otherthings like that You know,
there's more levels to this butjust for simplicity sake we're

(07:17):
gonna say that there's basicallytwo main halves of the nervous
system There's theparasympathetic side, which is
like the rest and digestrelaxation, And then we have the
sympathetic side, which is morealert fight or flight, You know,
that kind of stage, And sodepending, and this is the cool
part about breathing becausebreathing is one of those things
that happens automatically.
So outside of our consciousness,but it's also one of the very

(07:38):
few things that we haveconscious control over to
change.
And so just by changing the wayyou breathe, you can change the
state that you're in.
So I always tell people theratio in which you breathe
determines your state.
So if you are, your inhale ismore closely tied to your
sympathetic state and yourexhale is more closely tied to
your parasympathetic state.
So exhale relaxation, inhalealertness, and you know, kind of

(08:03):
energy, So if I want to shiftfrom one side to the other, so
let's say that you know, I'mgearing up for a game or, you
know, I'm feeling a little lowenergy.
Can I start to influence the wayI'm feeling by just changing the
way I breathe and emphasizing myinhale?
Yeah, I can do like a foursecond inhale and a two second
exhale, And all breath.
All the different breath styleswork on this continuum, So like

(08:25):
I would say that Wim Hof, ismore closely towards the
sympathetic side because it's abig inhale and then a let go,
You know, so you're kind ofreally emphasizing more of the
inhale and the exhale is justkind of a let go process versus
something like, you know, takego breathing or very slow, deep
exhales, elongated exhales.

(08:45):
Would be very much morerelaxing, So if I'm before a
game and I want to be nice andalert and I'm feeling a little
low, I might do a four secondinhale.
And a two second exhale.
And I might repeat that severaltimes until I can feel that
change in my body.
And then vice versa, after I'vefinished some kind of match and
I'm now I'm gearing down torecover and to relax, can I do
something that brings me backinto more of a relaxed state?

(09:06):
Absolutely.
So then I would switch myemphasis to the exhale and I
would make my exhale at leasttwo times as long as my inhale.
Technically, it needs to be atleast one and a half, but that's
usually harder math for people.
So I just tell people two timesas much, You know, cause that's
a little bit easier.
So a four second inhale wouldhave to have at least an eight
second exhale to really start tomove the needle.

(09:27):
And so that's just an easy wayto start to learn how to, and
then if you have that frameworkof your mind of how those two
things are tied together, youcan literally go through any
style of breath work.
Okay.
And see which one of those,whether it be the inhale or the
exhale, they're emphasizing andknow what kind of effect it's
pretty much going to have onyour body overall.
And so like, that's kind of howI generally explain breath work

(09:49):
and how to start to move yourenergy state and then also how
it can affect your performance.

Coach U (09:54):
Let's say somebody is in a more sympathetic state and
you want to get to that moreparasympathetic state.
And then vice versa.
What's a simple, Quick, easy togo to, practice that somebody
could do.

If we're just talking breath and we're not
talking anything else, one of myfavorite quick in the moment
techniques first of all,breathing through your nose is
going to help to put you alittle bit more biased towards
parasympathetic versus breathingthrough your mouth, which is
definitely very much asympathetic activity.
So just being aware.
Of where you're breathing andchanging that can dial you in
one way or the other.
So definitely mouth breathing ismore that sympathetic fight or

(10:27):
flight state.
The nose breathing, nasalbreathing can be a little bit
more biased towards thatparasympathetic state.
One of my favorite kind of inthe moment techniques to teach
people is a technique thatAndrew Huberman really made
popular and you might've heardit already.
And it's that physiologicalsigh.
So it's a double inhale.
So,

Coach U (10:44):
hmm.
Heh heh heh

and then another one.
And then an exhale, You do thattwo to five times and you will
feel a shift in your bodytowards relaxation.
There's just no way not to.
And I always tell people, likeif you spend enough time around
small children or you've hadspent enough time around small
children, when they get reallyupset, And they're crying and
they're, they're upset.
And then they start to calmdown.

(11:06):
You hear them inhale and thenthey do and then they exhale,
You know, so like they, theyknow how to regulate themselves
in that sense, You know, theyknow how to come back out of
that state and it's almost likeas adults, we forgot that we had
access to that thing and how tomove it forward into the rest of
our life.
And so that's one of my favoriteways to kind of like go from

(11:28):
super pumped to more relaxed.
And then if you're a littleunder, you're just, a little
low, A little too relaxed, Andyou want to go the other way.
I really liked that four secondinhale and a two second exhale
either through the mouth orthrough the nose.
And you will kind of biasyourself towards getting ready
and kind of pumped, For, youknow, like that kind of pregame
pump, like let's do this, youknow?

(11:48):
And like, that's an easy waythat doesn't take too much
thought or equipment or layingdown or anything like that.
You can do that in the moment.
And it's a really quick, easyway to shift your nervous system
state.

Coach U (11:58):
So on the surface level, that's an easy way to
kind of get into it, but let'sdive a little deeper.
So let's talk about the, thetechniques between breathing and
increased endurance and how thatcan affect performance.

Yeah So we got to do a little science here.
And so hopefully we

Coach U (12:14):
We love science

here with this,

Coach U (12:15):
That's okay.
We'll, we'll be

but so we have to understand carbon dioxide and
carbon dioxide is typically whatwe're breathing off when we
exhale.
Now, the crazy thing about thehuman body is that the signal to
breathe is not a low level ofoxygen.
It is a high level of carbondioxide in the body, So it's
when carbon dioxide reaches acertain level that tells us that

(12:39):
we need to breathe.
Either faster or deeper or both,So when we start exercising the
carbon dioxide, our muscles areworking, they start to produce
more carbon dioxide and thus ourbreathing rate usually picks up,
And so that's, that's usually apretty good thing, The problem
is let's say we're running causethat's the easy example, And we

(12:59):
are competing in some kind ofevent or race or something like
that.
And we have a lot of distance totravel, If we're mouth
breathing, we are blowing offbecause when you breathe through
your nose, there's less volumeof air that I can actually get
in and get out versus whenyou're breathing through your
mouth, there's much more airmovement that can happen.
So if we're running and we startbreathing through our mouth, we

(13:22):
are blowing off so much carbondioxide that Our red blood
cells, actually, even thoughthey have the oxygen molecules
attached to them, will not letgo of that oxygen to your muscle
tissue.
So, you will fatigue and youwill eventually have to stop,
And so, the greatest enduranceyou will ever have, that will

(13:42):
allow you to go the longest andthe furthest, is nasal
breathing, because nasalbreathing, Keeps you working at
a level that allows this oxygenand carbon dioxide exchange to
happen so that your tissues areactually getting the oxygen that
they need to keep producingenergy and muscular power.
And so when we start breathingthrough that, that mouth, we're

(14:04):
blowing off all that carbondioxide in our bloodstream and
the oxygen molecules aren'tletting go of the sorry, the red
blood cells aren't letting go ofthe oxygen molecules.
And our tissues start to fatigueand they switch energy systems.
And, you know, when you switchenergy systems from aerobic to
anaerobic, there's only so muchtime you can spend there.
And then eventually you have tostop because the workload is too
great.
And so one of the things that Iusually have to do with people

(14:24):
in the beginning is actually getthem to slow down, to maintain a
pace that they can do at nasalbreathing, whatever that might
be.
And then after a little trainingwith the nasal breathing,
they're actually able to go backto their normal kind of
breathing.
Game or event speed, but they'reable to have much greater
endurance and their level oflike, like fatigue or muscle

(14:44):
pain or anything like that, youknow, in those longer, like
marathon and things and stufflike that is much, much reduced,
Versus where they used to bewhen they were mouth breathing
and then, you know, they'restruggling and just kind of
dragging themselves across thefinish line.
Versus like, Oh no, I actuallyfelt like, you know, I didn't
have any of the back pain or myhips didn't start to bother me,
you know, 10, 15, 20 miles intothe race.
They just are able to competefor much longer at a much higher

(15:06):
level.
And so I think that that's oneof the biggest things to
understand about breathwork.
Is that just, if you want thebest endurance, then you're
going to be breathing throughyour nose in and out at a pace
that you can comfortably workat.
And you will be able to go muchlonger and much farther than you
think you can, and especiallymuch longer and much further
than you think you can breatheinto your mouth.
I mean, even, you know, growingup playing soccer, you know, and

(15:26):
things like that, I used to loveit when I used to hear people
start breathing their mouth.
Like I knew I was like, Oh,you're, you're screwed.
You know, I was like, I, I haverun you down.
We're only it's only the firsthalf of the game.
And I was like, you're justgoing to be a floppy mess for
the second half.
And that's great for me.
You know, and sure enough,that's how it always, always
turned out.
And so I knew early on that thatwas kind of like a thing.
And I could always tell with myown running too, that, you know,

(15:47):
like.
If I could maintain kind of thatnasal breathing or at least nose
in mouth out to some degree, Icould keep going for a little
bit longer, but nose in nose outwas definitely the best.
So yeah.

Coach U (16:00):
So obviously you have soccer, for instance, is a lot
of stop and go, whereas like,let's say you're running a
marathon, you're trying to keepup roughly the same pace, That's
the goal is to keep your paceup.
So.
Can you talk about how it canaffect that in terms of like a
basketball player, a soccerplayer, a baseball player who
like it's, it's the up, up, upspike, and then come back down,
up, up, up spike, come backdown.

Yeah.
I mean, when you eventually, ifyou're at a certain power output
or speed, you're, you areworking so hard that you're
going to end up usuallybreathing through your mouth a
little bit.
If you can maintain the nasalbreathing, like throughout a
soccer game, throughout abasketball game, First of all,
your endurance is going to beoff the charts.
And you're going to be able tojust run circles around people,
Because you've conditionedyourself to be able to do that.
But most of the time, whathappens is that we go from

(16:43):
periods of predominant nasalbreathing, and then we have to
do some kind of sprint to catchyou know, an attacking player or
the ball or something like that.
And so we start to breathe alittle bit, maybe through our
mouth, but then the soonest wecan switch back to nasal
breathing.
The better off we're going to belong term because again, you
want, you need thatconcentration of carbon dioxide
in the body to really let go ofthe red blood cells.

(17:04):
And in addition to, somethingthat I didn't mention that we
probably should is that if we'remouth breathing, what we're
actually doing to the arteriesin our body is we're
constricting them, And so overtime, you not only are you
getting less oxygen to the tothe tissues because the red
blood cells aren't letting go ofthem, but now you're getting
less red blood cells actually tothe tissues to even be able to

(17:25):
offload the oxygen becausethere's a reduced amount of flow
in and around the body.
And this is a global, thishappens all over the body,
Versus nasal breathing, the morecarbon dioxide that's present,
the more dilated all those bloodvessels are going to be, which
means much more red blood cells.
Can get through to thosedifferent muscles and to those
little small capillaries andparts of the body.
We see a lot of pain clients whoare often breathing very shallow

(17:47):
and through their mouth.
And we know that that iscontributing to some degree to
their experience.
And just by getting them toswitch a little bit and change
their breathing up, a lot oftimes we can get them to start
to feel a little bit betterbecause we sense lack of oxygen
in the body as pain.
So if your tissues aren'tgetting the oxygen that they
need, we sense that as pain, Youknow, so that's, that's a big

(18:09):
deal.
When you're talking about bothperformance and the pain world,
We need to be able to kind ofkeep that in the back of our
mind.

Coach U (18:15):
This is super simplifying.
Based on what you're saying, butwhen we're breathing through our
mouth, it's almost as though weare tricking ourselves.
We think we're getting a lotmore oxygen and we're getting
that in our systems, but inreality, What we're doing is
we're depleting ourselves ofthat potential red blood cell
count or red blood cellreleasing oxygen within, but
we're blocking it from happeningbecause we're breathing through

(18:36):
the mouth, even though that wethink that we're getting more
oxygen.

You got it.
Yep, absolutely.
You're moving more air whenyou're breathing through your
mouth.
So more air is coming into yourlungs and more air is going out.
But that doesn't mean that the,the oxygen and the nutrients,
the red blood cells andeverything are actually making
it to your tissues so that's thedifference, and that's the hard
part for people in the beginningto kind of understand is that,
yeah, but when I'm breathingthrough my mouth, there's so
much more air.
And it's like, yeah, I'm notdisagreeing with you.

(19:01):
You can move more air in and outof your lungs through your
mouth, but when we're talkingabout performance, we need that
those molecules to get to ourtissues, and that doesn't happen
as well when we're breathingthrough our mouth, and that's
why, because when you're runningand you're working really hard,
usually it's not, it's, youknow, Your lungs and your legs

(19:24):
usually are the first things togive out, It's like I can't keep
going because I can't breathefast enough or my lungs fatigue,
Because I'm breathing, eventhough I'm breathing really
hard, there's not any, there'snot any actual oxygen making it
to my, my legs, You know?
And so like, that's usually whatwe see.
Is that we have some kind ofgive out in the system and it's
usually the lungs or the legs,Either just your diaphragm,
which is a muscle, can't keep upwith the actual breathing,

(19:47):
Because it's again, you'retrying to ask it to do something
endurance, but it's just,there's no oxygen.
There's no there's minimaloxygen and minimal circulation
going to it and same with thelegs, There's minimal oxygen and
minimal circulation getting tothem because of the way we're
breathing, and that's why it'sso cool that we have conscious
control over breathing because.
Once we're aware of it, then wecan switch how we're doing it.
And yeah, we do have to slowdown a little bit when it comes

(20:09):
from a performance standpoint inthe beginning In order to speed
up later, And that's that's thehard part So for some people too
in the beginning when we talkabout this is that it's like hey
But I run this pace or you knowall this stuff It's like I get
that but if you slow down nowand you can do that exact same
thing But breathing through yournose You're gonna have many more
levels that you can get throughif you have to start breathing

(20:30):
through your mouth We'resprinting, And we're going back
and forth, Just on the field,just back and forth and back and
forth.
If you have to start breathingthrough your mouth before I do,
you're going to fatigue first.
So I'm going to get, I'm goingto look like I'm faster and I'm
going to look like I can keepgoing for longer.
Because I'm still breathingthrough my nose typically.
So that's just another way tokind of think about it.
So, and just being able to, andyou know, I do like people to

(20:52):
have flexibility, So you shouldbe able to switch into, you
know, kind of a higherintensity, but then you should
be able to come back out andregain and regain control of
your breathing.
In and out through that nose.
So there, and when we talkabout, you know, those sports
that are change of speed, soccerbasketball, baseball, where
you're going from, you know,maybe even standing still
almost, or, you know, walking,or just kind of in a ready

(21:13):
position to a full on, very muchexcited motion, or a full on
sprint, then yeah, we mightbreathe through our mouth real
fast to get that play over, butthen we need to go back to that
nasal breathing, And get thebody and everything back under
control.
And that's going to allow us tostay focused and to stay alert,
But not be fatigued.

Coach U (21:29):
So the principle then, because I know everyone's
different and you know,everything's within context when
you're dealing with a patient.
But as a principle, it feelslike nasal breathing kind of
makes more sense, especiallyperformance.
And it seems like kind of foreverybody.
But you can treat it like aninterval.
It sounds like, like, just likewhen you would do interval runs
or, you know, like with weights,like I'm going to lift at 80

(21:52):
percent one RM and then I canget to that one arm if I want
to, but then I can come backdown and stay under that 100.
And so I kind of, that's whatI'm thinking about when it comes
to the breath work.
It's like, all do what you canto practice your, your endurance
at the level you can with thenasal breathing.
And then eventually over time,you can start picking up that
maybe the pace, or maybe you'regoing for a little longer or
whatever the case may be toimprove it.

Yeah, absolutely.
You're trying to maintain thenasal breathing for as long as
you can, and then to train it,you're going to push it just,
just like we do with strengthtraining, we push just a little
past where are normal.
is So we cause a little bit ofadaptation in the muscle.
We cause a little bit of changemicro tears, maybe in the
musculature itself so that theygrow back stronger, so we cause

(22:35):
a little extra fatigue, youknow, and we have to go a little
slower maybe, or can't, youknow, go our same space, space,
speed, excuse me, at the whenwe're breathing through our nose
at first, but then eventuallywe'll be able to kind of
maintain it for much longer andwe want to have that flexibility
to go back and forth betweenthose two symptoms.
But again, if I can do sprints.
With nasal breathing the wholetime, I'm going to be able to go

(22:55):
for much longer than someone whohas, as soon as they start
sprinting is breathing throughtheir mouth, it's just a matter
of time before they kind of, youknow, fatigue out.
It's not something thateverybody really thinks about
but it influences all of ourathletic activity.

Coach U (23:10):
When I first started working with performance
training, maybe four years agowith athletes, like I was doing
a lot of breath work at thebeginning and at the end and
just, I was diving into ittrying to figure out like how it
could help them.
But the, and I understood, Iunderstood the science, but this
is a way better breakdown of itfor me to understand.
Like, okay, now I understand whyit is so important because it's,
It is affecting from the groundup, whereas I think this, you

(23:33):
know, a lot of times we, wethink we're just gonna, we're
athletes, we could just hop in.
you know, anywhere I can, I canproduce and perform well.
But if you're building yourperformance from the ground up
with your, with your breathing,it seems as though you could be
a step ahead of other athletes.

Absolutely.
The ability to recover fastertoo just because you gave a
maximal effort, how fast can yourecover?
to give another maximal effort,You know, can you, in a timeout,
can you take your heart ratefrom 150 beats per minute back
down to a hundred, by breathingthrough your nose, by elongating
your exhale, by settlingyourself down.
And then, you know, if you dothat periodically throughout the
game, you know, it's not so muchthis linear kind of like

(24:11):
instance, you know, growth wheremy heart rate is just growing,
growing, growing.
Instead I have theseintermittents where I'm able to
lower my heart rate drastically.
And then it builds back up andit's able to rest and rest and
rest versus just this.
It's always high because I'malways giving it to the signal
through the way that I'mbreathing to always just kind of
stay at this upper echelonthroughout the game and then you

(24:32):
fatigue,

Coach U (24:33):
How much are you paying attention to heart rate and the
variability of it while you'rein, in the, the intervals of
breath work?
Like are you trying to tell yourclients or your patients, Hey,
stay at a certain heart rateduring this breath work?
Or is it more of like, okay.
Hey, you just need to payattention be conscious about the
nasal breathing.
And then once you lose it, youknow, kind of slow down a little
bit.
Like what's your method there?

More the latter, You know, like can we, do we
know that we can have a changeon the heart rate just by a
change we're breathing?
Absolutely.
But it's not necessarilysomething where we're focusing
on as far as when we're in abreathing practice itself is
usually a by product of the waythat we're breathing that causes
the change there, So it's notusually a main parameter that
we're working on.
Unless I'm doing something likewhat we would call autogenic

(25:14):
training with the client, whichis where we're trying to give
them a better connection fromtheir brain to their heart, So
almost like we're trying tobuild the same conscious control
over our heart rate that we haveover our breathing over time, so
that just like I said, duringstoppage of play during a time
out during something like that.
Their heart rate really can dropbecause they've trained it over

(25:37):
time, And they know how to kindof get it back down to as low as
possible so that they canrecover and that they're ready
for the next bout of intensecompetition.
So

Coach U (25:46):
almost seems like it's a byproduct of proper breath
work as opposed to it being thefocus.

It exactly.
Yeah.
It's definitely a by product.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's just physiology, Youknow, you change the way you
breathe everything.
Every system in the body has toadapt to it.
Yeah, absolutely.

Coach U (26:01):
Talk to me about pain and what your thoughts are about
pain and how you deal with howpeople deal with it.
How does the breathwork helpwith pain?

Well, I mean, we've already talked about kind
of the physiology of it, Youknow, when we're not getting
oxygen to the tissues, we havepain, So if we're breathing in a
way that is limiting thecirculation in our body, which
is usually mouth breathing,which is usually shallow, and
the reason you breathe shallow,And the reason you breathe
through your mouth usually whenyou're in a lot of pain or in
chronic pain is because you'retrying to hold all of this

(26:32):
tension in your body tostabilize everything because you
feel like one wrong move andboom, here comes that like, wow,
pain that just knocks you out,And just knocks you on your
back, just flat, And so that'swhat we, that's the adaptation
that we see over time is thatpeople start to breathe it.
Not as deeply as they start tobreathe faster.
And then that limits the amountof oxygen that's getting into

(26:54):
those areas, which ispreventing, or at least,
Reducing the body's ability toheal those areas, If you don't
have circulation, then nonutrients can get in and it's
really difficult for things toget out.
So then on top of this, you havea buildup usually in the
lymphatic system, which is ourmain drainage pathway for
swelling and, you know, part ofour immune system and all this

(27:15):
stuff that's supposed to go inand help repair tissues, You
know, and so.
And so when our breathing isreduced, our lymphatic system's
ability to actually clear someof these products is also
reduced because we need twothings for good lymphatic
circulation.
We need good circulation in andwe need good drainage out.
And the diaphragm is a huge pumpfor the lymphatic system.

(27:38):
So if you're breathing shallow,you're not getting this full
relaxation and this full inhale,full contraction.
So you're not getting thepumping action all over the
body.
You're not getting the massagingof the internal organs.
So we can see a lot of pain tiedto the way we're breathing.
And we know that we can have abig impact just by changing the

(27:59):
way that people are breathing.
Now that's just.
That's kind of just the overviewwith breathing and, and
circulation and lymphatics alittle bit.
But the way that I typicallytalk about pain is kind of like
this, like and this was from Igot this from Z health from Dr.
Eric Cobb.
It's a great brain basedtraining system.
If you ever want to check it outor if anybody's interested in
that that's where I learned mostof the kind of the the neurology
stuff and how to move that intoperformance setting and for pain

(28:22):
management and stuff like that.
But they like to use this ideaof like a bucket.
And everybody the bucket canonly get so full and then if
you're filling it with water,then it starts to overflow and
spill out everywhere, And sodepending on what's going on in
our life, All those things getthrown in the bucket.
Just like you were saying, youknow, like when you're stressed,
when you're all these things, itkind of pushes the level of the

(28:46):
bucket up, up, up higher andhigher.
And then when the water startsto spill out, that's when we
start to have all of thesesymptoms.
And so that's like our, our, wecall it like literally a threat
bucket.
And as long as the water staysin the bucket, we're fine.
But once one more thing, onemore drop gets out of the
bucket, we're fine.
Then, boom, the water startsspilling out and we start to
have all these symptoms that canlook super related, you know,

(29:08):
like, oh, you know, like I wastraining, I was doing a bunch of
deadlifts and now my back hurtsor it can be completely
unrelated, You know, where it'slike, dude, I haven't done
anything in forever and now myneck is just like locked and
seized or my jaw, You know,something like this where it
seems so unrelated or I'm dizzy,you know, like all these things
that can seem so unrelated butwhen we think about it from your
nervous system, only having.

(29:29):
X amount of capacity to adapt tobefore it starts to whisper at
you, like, Hey, this doesn'tfeel so good.
Here's some pain.
And remember, one of the thingsthey talk about there too, is
that pain is an action signal.
It's trying to get you to dosomething different, So pain is
like you have pain in your back.
Trying to get you to lay downand slow down maybe a little

(29:50):
bit, or to move differently, Atleast to move differently, so we
try to think about pain kind ofmore as an action signal that
our body's trying to tell us todo something differently, and
that's the hard part, you know,but, and pain is, a very unique
experience to everybody you knowit's, it's different for
everybody.
People experience differentlevels, even though they have
the same, maybe necessarilymedical diagnosis, And so it's

(30:12):
very individual and how they'reexperiencing it.
And that's why I like this ideaof the bucket and just having a
general capacity.
And once that capacity isoverflowing, that's when we
start to have all thesedifferent symptoms, you know,
and it's, Not just, it's the waywe're training, the way we're
not training our job, our, youknow, at home life, our you
know, financial situation, allthese social and, and

(30:33):
socioeconomic, and then also youknow, individual lifestyles go
into how this bucket getsfilled, filled up.
And so what we try to do when wetalk about from a performance
setting is like, what are thethings that we can do to kind of
drain the bucket a little bit,can we give the brain better
information?
through breathing about what'sgoing on inside our body.

(30:55):
Can we move the body a littledifferently, maybe build its
proprioception, which is kind ofthe body's ability to recognize
where it is in space and timerelative.
To its other parts.
So how far apart my hands are,even though my eyes are closed
or how close I am to the wallbehind me, even though I can see
in the camera, but I can'treally see it I have a general
idea of that or another exampleof that.

(31:16):
It's just like you can get up inthe middle of the night and walk
to the bathroom without everturning the lights on.
And the reason you could do thatis because you have a general
map of where you are relative toall the other stuff in your room
on the way to the bathroom, andthat's generally what we think
about proprioceptive.
And when we have pain, there'sactually a change

Coach U (31:33):
in

in our brain in that map area of our brain of
how clear that map is.
And so that's why we get peoplewho are scared to move, because
their brain doesn't have asclear of a picture of what's
going on in that part of thebody.
And when the brain doesn't havea good picture of what's
happening inside the body, Itwill either reduce your overall
movement, so it will limit howfar you can move or how much
weight you can move or how fastyou can run or jump, Or how you

(31:56):
can jump, Or it'll send you painto get you to like, cause it's
not sure about what's going tohappen there, and that might be
just something as simple as likea cramp or it might be something
more intense, like, you know,like almost like a radiation
pain down the leg or down arounda nerve, And so it's very much
individual, but also.
A very unique system, and so Ithink that's, that's how people
experience pain, at least in my,that's my experience, the way

(32:19):
that I like to explain it topeople.
And the way that the breathingaffects this, you know and we
talked about the proprioception,but breathing

Coach U (32:26):
then.

also affects this from the tissue standpoint, as
far as like getting thenutrients there.

Coach U (32:31):
is.

then breathing is a huge signal for the nervous
system, so if you get into thebottom of your squat, for
instance, and you're,

Coach U (32:37):
that.
Sitting

your body that this is maybe.

Coach U (32:41):
you

Not as safe as you think it is, versus if you're
able to nicely slow down yourbreathing, to have ownership of
what we call ownership of yourbreathing down at the bottom of
squat at the top of squat.
So can you breathe the exactsame way at the top of the squat
as you can at the bottom of thesquat?
If not, that is something thatneeds to be worked on because
that's a sport specific, styleof, of of using breathing to
make changes in the body.

(33:02):
And you'll see that a lot whenit comes to breathing.
It's just, someone can breathe,Standing, sitting, laying down,
but then you put them in theirsport specific stance and they
can't breathe as well.
Well, that's a problem, Causethen you're not able to access
and move along this nervoussystem, continue of relaxation
and excitement.
And so a lot of times that's oneof the first places I'll start
with somebody is just like,okay, you're having problems in

(33:24):
this position.
Okay, cool.
Get in that.
Can you get in that positionwithout any pain?
Yeah.
Okay, cool.
Awesome.
Can you breathe here?
No.
Okay.
We're going to work on this, andwe want you to be able to
breathe efficiently utilizingthe diaphragm, getting that 360
degree expansion all the wayaround the body.
Okay.
Getting the ribs to move the waythey're supposed to as best we
can in those differentpositions.
And we can see that once we dothat, then people are able not

(33:47):
only to do the movement muchmore efficiently and there's a
better quality of the movement,but a lot of times they can add
more resistance as well, they'restronger.
because they can breathe inthose positions.

Coach U (33:56):
You said breathe 360 and all through the body.
I've heard so many differentways of how you're supposed to
breathe and you know, you'veheard the diaphragmatic
breathing.
No, you should breathe to thechest first.
No, you should breathe to yourside of your rib cage.
No, you should breathe down toyour toes first.
Let's break it down.
What are we, what are we

If you were to come on a retreat with us or do
a workshop with us, this issomething that we teach at
pretty much every workshop,because just like you're saying,
it's basically.
Probably one of the mostimportant things about breathing
is how do you, how are yousupposed to breathe?
What is a good breath?
What does it look like?
And so a good breath is like Isaid, 360 degrees of expansion
all the way around the body.
when the diaphragm is domed up,so it looks like a parachute,
that's its most relaxed state.

(34:32):
And then when it comes down andflattens out, that's when we're
inhaling and that's when it'scontracted, And that movement of
the diaphragm down causes theribs to expand in 360 degrees.
and then to elevate a littlebit.
So we have from, so from theside to side, we have a lateral
expansion this way.

(34:53):
So that's the, one of themovements.
And then you also have, if Ican't show you on the front to
back, I was almost going to graba skeleton, but you have this,
what we call, so that's what wewould call in the breath world,
That's what we call almost likea bucket handle movement of the
ribcage.
And that predominantly happenshere in the lower part of the
ribs.
So you have mostly thathappening in the lower part of
the ribs, but that's in the backtoo.

(35:14):
So in the back, as these go up,you know, you're going to see
this movement, but you're goingto see it in the back and the
front.
And most people have like zeroawareness of their back.
It's very interesting.
They can't see it in the mirror.
And so they don't, they havezero awareness of it.
And so then.
In the upper ribs, you stillhave some bucket handle, but
it's very much reduced.
And what you have there instead,if this is the front of my body

(35:35):
and this is the back of my body,when you inhale, you have this
motion happening, which is whatwe call more of a pump arm,
like, like like your old schoolpump in a well, And so as you
inhale, the front goes up andthe back goes down.
And as you exhale, the frontgoes down and the back comes up.
And you still have a little bitof bucket there and you have a
little bit of pump handlehappening at the bottom of the

(35:55):
rib cage.
They're definitely kind ofdivided and in the middle,
they're kind of even.
So in the middle of the ribcage, they're more even, but at
the top, you have more pumphandle at the bottom.
You have more bucket handlemovement, but they're supposed
to work in succession.
So it's not like one of thesethings is happening.
And then the other, they'resupposed to happen.
Sorry.
They're not supposed to work insuccession.
They're all supposed to happenrelatively together, So you

(36:18):
inhale, you get the bottom ofthe rib cage to move, and then
the upper rib cage moves, butthey're happening relatively.
Simultaneously.
At the same time.
And then one of the other thingswe have to talk about is that
most people, most people and ofcourse this is all through your
nose, So that's properbreathing.
So it was breathing in and outthrough your nose, getting this
360 degree expansion, reallytrying to fill.

(36:39):
This back part of our body, Weactually have much more space
behind your lungs than we do infront, You have your heart, your
sternum, all these ribs, in thefront, but there's actually a
lot more space in the human bodyin the back of the body.
So that's another thing to thinkabout is that the lungs are
going to expand a little bitfurther to the back than they
are to the front which issomething most people just, you
know, it's beyond theirawareness now because they just

(36:59):
haven't studied it.

Coach U (37:00):
Mid back thoracic like between the shoulder blades is
kind of like in that whole rib

Yeah, exactly.
Yep.
Exactly.
You got it.
One of the other things we wantto talk about is that these
muscles here in the neck shouldremain relaxed when we're taking
a proper breath, okay, if theyshould remain relaxed pretty
much the whole time or as longas possible, you might get a
little bit if you're reallygetting as big of an inhale as
possible, it shouldn't, youshouldn't feel any contraction

(37:28):
in those till at least the very,very end, like the last second
of your inhale almost or thelast couple of seconds of your
inhale.
Okay.
Because all these muscles herein the neck are what we call
accessory breathing muscles.
So they are supposed to help thediaphragm when we're working at
a very high level, Which is whyyou see people who are out of
breath and they're, they're whenthey're out of breath, they're

(37:48):
breathing like this.
And you have all this up anddown movement of the ribcage.
That's because they're using allthese accessory muscles, And so
if someone comes in and I'm justwatching them breathe and all I
see when I'm talking to them andthey're just, They're not even
moving, They're just talking tome, tell me about what's going
on with their body.
And all I see is this up anddown motion of their entire rib
cage.
I'm like, okay, yeah, wedefinitely have some work to do

(38:10):
here with the breath work,because you're not even really
utilizing the diaphragm to itsfull capabilities.
You're really just using thesecondary muscles or those
accessory muscles.
one of the last things that hasa very big influence on our
breathing is our overall tongueposition.
So your tongue position helps tomaintain the pressure in the
skull, but also helps to open upthe throat itself, And so if
your tongue is in a badposition, it can definitely

(38:32):
change how open the airways are.
In the body.
And so your tongue is supposedto be kind of, there's little
ridges behind your teeth, soit's supposed to be kind of
pretty much suction cup to theroof of your mouth and touching
those little areas.
And I used to describe this bydoing the crazy eyes, which is
basically a big smile.
You get your eyes as wide as youcan, and then you swallow, and
that helps you get your tonguein a really good position.

(38:53):
I recently came across adifferent way to do it, which is
like, you basically make thisclicking sound, And you
basically do that a coupletimes, and then before you go to
actually make the sound, Noticethe position your tongue is in,
and that is exactly the positionthat we want the tongue to be in
when we're doing a really goodbreath.
So what we would do is we wouldbasically practice all those

(39:13):
things individually, and thenwe'd combine them all together
for a little while and letpeople really experience what it
is to breathe properly.
And then one of the other thingsthat I should mention about a
proper breath is that mostpeople, because they're not
really breathing deeply, they'rethey go to inhale, But because

(39:34):
they've never fully exhaled.
They only have about thisdistance.
So if I, if I'm here and I go toexhale and again, when you
exhale, a diaphragm moves up, Soif I only partially exhale,
well, then I only have this muchrange to inhale, Versus if I'm
getting a full exhale.
That allows me to actually get afull inhale.

(39:57):
And so that's usually one of thethings that we have to work on.
People is actually getting themto exhale first, and then we can
get into really good inhales,but that's, that's usually part
of the problem.
And then there's just not asmuch strength in the diaphragm.
I think as you know, we used to,we don't, we're not as active as
we used to.
We don't train the same way.
We're not just laboring all day.
Like a couple hundred years agowould have been and so we just

(40:18):
don't, it's just different now.
And so we have to kind of thinkabout this intelligently and
train the body a littledifferently because of that.
So yeah, so it should be 360.
It should come kind of, you knowyou should, and like, can you
even, like a lot of the thingsthat I spend a lot of time
teaching people is like, do youfeel your diaphragm moving?
Are you aware of it?
Can you feel it moving up anddown?
Because a lot of people don'thave any awareness whatsoever.

(40:40):
And so, you know, sometimes I'lllike wrap some bands around them
so they can feel some, andresistance is a huge way to get
people to become more aware ofthis parts of our body, You
know, so the resistance wrappingsomething around the lower rib
cage, they can really start tofeel that bucket handle movement
and that expansion 360, youknow, so like getting a band and
wrapping it all the way aroundthe body so that they can really

(41:00):
feel that.
360 expansion, And then youknow, putting, you know, their
hands on different parts oftheir body, putting their hands
on their necks very gently sothat they can start to really
feel these things out forthemselves.
Because ultimately it's theirawareness that's going to help
all these things click.
I could tell them a milliontimes, but until they really
feel it.

(41:20):
That's when, when they reallyfeel it, That's when they have
these aha moments in, in theirmind and in their body.
And they actually gain morecontrol over the body a little
bit there.

Coach U (41:29):
Like with strength work and with speed work and power
work, there's adaptations thattake place at a certain amount
of inputs.
I know it's different witheverybody, but how long do
adaptations take normally whenit comes to breathwork?

Oh, I mean, it could happen really fast.
You know, this is something weprobably should have talked
about in pain that I, I didn'tmention, but or maybe we're
still in pain.
I forget, but When you breathe,the average person breathes
between 18, 000 times per day.
If you did 18, 000 to 22, 000squats or deadlifts improperly,
how would your body feel?

(42:03):
And like, that's something thatreally helps to put it in
perspective for people.
It's like, okay, cool.
And I would say that 18, 000 to22, 000, even though that's the
average, That's roughly youknow, 18 to 20 breaths per
minute.
I think that's really fast.
I think that we feel our best.
When we can definitely get belowthat 15, maybe even below that
12, you know, like eight to 12range.

(42:25):
That's when you feel veryrelaxed, very focused, very
almost like that general, likewhat, what some people would
term as that flow state, Wherethey're.
They're very focused.
They're very awake, but they'realso very relaxed, And so
they're able to kind of movethrough their day in a very
different way.
And again, this is all yournervous system is just picking
up on all these signals, Of how,what input are you giving it,

(42:45):
What input are you giving it?
And if you're breathing reallyfast and have several breaths
per minute, you're going to biasit more towards that stress
state, As soon as you start toslow down and reduce the number
of breaths you're taking perminute, you're You're really
biasing yourself more towardsthat parasympathetic state, And
so understanding again, thatinitial relationship of where am
I and what do I do to move theneedle in one direction or the

(43:08):
other,

Coach U (43:08):
Let's talk about self, self massage.
How somebody can use selfmassage for both pain relief and
also for their performance or anathlete may want to use some
kind of self massage for theirperformance.

Yeah, I mean, you know, from a pain relief
standpoint, I think we've allbeen sore after a workout, And
we know that we can get on, youknow, a roller or a ball or
something like that and massageit a little bit.
I would say that most peoplemove a little too much when
they're doing it, especially ifyou're really trying to get
deeper into those tissues, youknow, they need to sit.

Coach U (43:39):
Hmm.

make it twice as long so that they are giving the
signal to their body.
Like, yes, there's pressure onthis point.
Yes, I want this point to relaxand eventually allowing it to as
time goes in and to, to releasea little bit.
And, you know, yeah.
You know, depending on how deepyou want to go, You're, you're,
you're not really like, you'renot squishing or, it's

Coach U (44:07):
Breaking down tissue.

Yeah.
You're not bringing, yeah,exactly.
What you're really doing at areally fundamental level, Is
you're allowing things tofinally glide on each other.
And so usually what happens isthat things get stuck together.
There's not as much fluid maybein there, And so they're not
gliding as well, And just likeif you have two pieces of glass
and you stick one on top of theother, they'll stick, they won't
move, You add just a little bitof water in between those two

(44:31):
and now it'll glide in anydirection that you want, no
problem, And so I think that alot of times what we're doing to
some degree is, you know, addinga little compression.
Moving a little bit, which iskind of pumping some of the
fluids in there a little bit.
And I always tend to tellpeople, it's like, if you can,
and if you can stay relaxed, ifyou can add the movement in
there a little bit, that'llreally help to kind of almost
give it more of like that pinand stretch feeling where you're

(44:53):
pinning the muscle and thenyou're going through its range
of motion and you're stretchinga little bit and that's causing
pumping, you know, all muscularcontraction is causing pumping
the fluids in the human body,Your, your, your blood doesn't
get back to your heart.
Really without the pumpingmechanism of your body, Of all
of your muscle contraction.
Same with the limb system.
We need that muscle contractionto pump all that stuff back up.
So the same principle applieshere when we were talking about

(45:15):
the fascia is that we get alittle bit, maybe more fluid
back in that area, but whatwe're really doing more than
anything else is we'reincreasing those gliding
factors, And sometimes it's justliterally one gliding the other.
Sometimes it's like more of likea telescope action that's
allowing, that's being allowedto happen.
And it just depends on where youare and in the body and whatnot.

Coach U (45:32):
How does it stick?

I think that's by changing your movement or or by
training it You know, so likeyou, you lengthen the, you're
able to get more out of thehamstrings, And then you train
them to maintain that, So let'ssay you released your hamstrings
and then you're doing likesingle leg RDLs or something
like that where they'reelongating, And now you're
training them in that elongatedposition to maintain That that
length relationship.
And I think that's, that's thepart.

(45:54):
That's why sometimes foamrolling and, you know, self
myofascial release get a littlebit of a bad rap.
It's like, Oh, you could rollforever and it'll just go back.
And it's like, yeah, it, the wayyou move will dictate how your
tissues are.
So you have to, on top of that.
train the body in order tomaintain those, those
adaptations that you've justcaused.
And it doesn't happen overnight,It's, it's just like everything
else in muscle growth.

(46:14):
It takes time for theseadaptations to take in the body.
But it definitely can make a bigdifference overall.
And then also from thatstandpoint of self massage,
Massaging the areas that controlyour breathing can drastically
influence your, your ability tobreathe the comfort of your
breathing and the depth of yourbreathing.
Which we've already spent a lotof time talking about how deep

(46:35):
you can breathe, how slow, howfast you can breathe, can have
all these effects on yourcirculation, on your pain, on
all these things.
So one of the courses, one ofthe things that I teach at all
my workshops, and I actuallyhave a video course of it too,
is just mobility.
For breathing and massage forbreathing, Like how do we
massage all these differentparts so that we're not just

(46:56):
using these muscles anymore.
They're not tense and stuckhere.
And so we can actually utilizethe diaphragm because we're not
necessarily stuck with thistension in this habit of how
we've been breathing in thepast.
And so I think that that in andof itself is a really powerful
way that athletes can start toapply principles that they've
used on their quads, on theircalves and things like that, but
also to their breathing to helpwith their performance, but also

(47:16):
again, we've shown thatbreathing and pain are So
intertwined.

Coach U (47:20):
So what is it really just finding the places that
aren't gliding well, the time,the tender points, or are there
specific places where you'relike, these are the places that
need to be hit

If we're talking about breathing, there's
definitely specific muscles thatare involved, The diaphragm is a
huge one, releasing it aroundthe rib cage releasing the QL,
the psoas, because they sharefascia, the intercostals in
between the ribs, the lats.
Any muscle that attaches on theribs is going to influence
breathing to some degree, So youhave scalenes, you have the SCM,
the sternocleidomastoid, Whichis more clavicle, but some
people talk about the clavicleas being rib zero, So it still

(47:51):
has an influence on the overallrib cage.
And The SEM is still a accessorybreathing muscle because it
helps to elevate the rib cage,And so, yeah, so that all those
anterior neck muscles the pecs,the lats, the pec minor, pec
major even the rhomboids, Andsome of the muscles around the
scapula, the shoulder blade, Thelevator scapula, You know, so

(48:11):
this guy, against trying to, toget that chest up.
So we usually use that muscle tohelp us a little bit there when
we're really fatigued or as abad habit.
So those would be the ones thatI really focus on.
And then also.
In order to have good breathing,we have to have good rib cage
mobility.
So if you have all these musclesthat attach on the rib cage and
they're all super tight, are yougoing to be able to turn,

(48:33):
rotate, side bend, side bend androtate?
No, probably not.
So releasing those can just givethe rib cage more freedom, which
will allow the diaphragm to movemore, which will allow the lungs
to inflate more, which willallow you to breathe deeper.
So all of those kind of playinto it.
If the rectus abdominis is supertight and you're like this, can
you, can you breathe?
Well, probably, probably not.
Because you can't ever expand.
You're probably really good atexhaling, but probably really

(48:54):
bad at inhaling, We breatheourselves into the, into our
postures.
So you see all these people whoare always like this, Their ribs
are all externally rotated andflared.
And so they're super biased ontheir inhale, They're very much
more biased towards theirinhale.
And they did really good atinhaling, not really great at
exhaling.
You know, and vice versa, thepeople that are a little more
slumped, They're usually alittle bit better at exhaling
and can't really get a deepbreath, You know?

(49:16):
And so that's usually what, whatwe What we see with people
posture wise too,

Coach U (49:20):
Have you run into people being ticklish when it
comes to soft tissue work anddoes that represent itself as
like, A another form ofprotection.
Whereas some people may feel alot of tension, but some people
might like start getting reallylaughy.
And I've, I've given some toughtissue work you start seeing
people go like, ah, I can'thandle it.
They're starting to laugh.
So what does that represent?

Well, that's so funny, You know, so this, and
this is the interesting thingbetween breath work and body
work, They're very, they'resimilar in this regard.
And so when we teach a breathworkshop, we have people
sometimes who have these hugeemotional releases and that can
be something like, crying and,you know, almost hysterically
crying for some people.
Or that could be hystericallylaughing.
And usually those are the twoends of the spectrum, And like,

(50:00):
those are the two ends of thespectrum, And then same with
bodywork, You know, you cantouch an area of someone's body
and they can immediately breakdown or they can start laughing
uncontrollably, And they'relike, sorry, I don't know what's
happening.
But I just, you know, and it'sjust like they can't control it,
But at the same time, like whatis a tickle?
Like what is, what is it?
You know, it's actually, it's,it's an annoyance to the body,

(50:22):
The buyer doesn't reallyactually enjoy it.
You know, it, we laugh, But it'sactually sent along more of that
pain pathway, that nociceptivepathway no, she nociception
pathway of the body.
And so it's actually a littlebit of an irritant, You know to
the system itself, but we'velearned that, that it's not like
as big of a pain, You know, it'snot like, you know, Instant

(50:42):
like, Oh, boom.
And then that caused, you know,then, and again, pain, this is
where we get so deep,Nociception is the transmission
of a signal to the brain.
Pain is the interpretation ofthat signal in the brain, So
that's why pain is such anindividual experience because
it's all about how the brain isprocessing the information
coming in and so that's whytickle and You know pressure are

(51:07):
so close on that pathway becausethey're both being sent pretty
much at the same pathway Butit's the interpretation in our
brain that makes it slightlydifferent, But it's still kind
of an irritant, You pull away,Someone tickles you.
You don't just sit there and letthem keep it.
You pull away.
You naturally tense up, Youknow, you, you, and that's the
same thing that happens withpain, You know, so they're,
they're very much, it's one ofthe, the cool, interesting

(51:28):
things about the combination ofbreath work and body work, The
clients who breathe better aremuch easier to work on than the
clients who don't breathe betterfrom a body work standpoint.
You know, because they're ableto relax when you're doing
different things, you know, andthey're able to take the
pressure or to take the positionmuch better than someone who is,
you know, very tense whenthey're doing it.

(51:48):
You know, and they're, they'reable to let go of things a
little bit faster.
So, you know, Just part ofteaching someone some good
breath work can really have aprofound effect on how they
accept the body work And One ofthe things I think that's really
underrated when it comes to thisis that you're building
awareness proprioception, again,interoception, that sense inside

(52:09):
of where things are in the bodyand proprioception where things
are relative to other parts ofyour body and think objects
while you're doing it.
And I think that that is a huge,huge part of it that's highly
underrated becauseproprioception, again, when we
have a good, clear map in ourbrain of where our body is in
space relative to ourself andother things, We move better, We

(52:31):
have less pain.
Our performance is typicallybetter, If you can move well,
see well, and balance well,That's going to be your highest
level of performance, And movingwell is about knowing where you
are in space, Balance is aboutknowing you know, where you're
how your eyes, your inner earand your feet are reacting to
the ground into yourenvironment, You know and seeing
well is so much more than justlight coming into the eyes, Can

(52:53):
you track an object?
Can you, you know, switch fromsomething close to something far
away real fast, you know,There's so much more levels to
it.
And so I think that, you know,The soft tissue work is a way to
build that proprioception andinteroception.
And that is like the foundation,I think, of, of, of movement,
of, of quality athleticism, Youknow, if you, that's like the

(53:13):
bottom of the pyramid, theproprioception, And then
interoception.
And then you have like, the nextrun would be like that
vestibular system, how well youbalance.
And then the top kind of rulingas king would be your vision,
Because if you think about it,your eyes are literally
extensions of your brain thatmigrated out of your brain so
that they can get moreinformation about the body.
Your eyes are extensions of yourbrain that migrated out of your

(53:34):
brain to get more informationabout your body, Or about your
environment.
they kind of rule as king and Isee breathing as the thing that
connects them all, I think thatthat breathing is the thing that
connects all and that's a lot ofThat again, comes from a lot of
the Z health training, likethat's how they see the body as
a pyramid and the proprioceptionis the base, then those two
different levels and breathingkind of encompasses all those
things.
And so I've kind of taken thatframework forward with me until

(53:56):
a lot of these different areasof not only pain management and,
and stress management andanxiety management, but
performance.

Coach U (54:04):
When it comes to, you know, soreness and if there is a
lot of tenderness and sorenesswhen you need to back off, is
there a, is there a limit?
what's the protocol there?

There's my answer.
And then there's the other, thekind of general answer, Okay.
So the general answer beingthat.
You know, you got to listen, gotto learn to listen to your body,
pushing past things and andgritting through things again is
not the way that the body likesto respond over time, You can do
it for a short period, You cangrind for a little bit, but
eventually that's not gonna beable to last very long.

(54:33):
So I think, you know, lettingthat kind of general sensation
be your guide, Is, is, you know,like, okay, cool.
Yeah, I can do this a littlebit.
Okay.
Yeah.
I'm a little sore.
Okay.
This is feeling like a littlebit too much and I can't relax,
Okay.
Maybe I'm going to move on andcome back to this, or I'm going
to switch tools.
I'm going to go to somethingsofter.
Or vice versa, you know, I don'treally feel like this is doing

(54:54):
anything.
I'm gonna go to a harder tool.
I find that people have like.
They use one tool and one toolonly like a foam roller or a
lacrosse ball I think that youshould have a like in an ideal
world Everybody would have abasket of tools and they would
just pick out, you knowDepending on what's going on
with their body the differenttools and try different ones one
of the things that I like toteach people a lot of the times
is that I like to teach them howto start to have that

(55:15):
conversation.
And this can be applied to softtissue work.
This can be applied to training.
This can be applied to anydrill, any exercise, any thing
you're doing with your body.
And what you do is you testsomething beforehand.
You do your intervention or yourdrill and then you retest, If
you're not testing yourguessing, So could you for

(55:40):
example, lean forward and tryand touch your toes and then see
how far you get and then doaround the squats And then
retest, Now, if you got better,Meaning that you're actually
able to go down further, And itfelt easier to go down and it
felt easier to come back up orone of those, That would mean
that squatting is really good.
Yeah, your body is really likingthe input that you're giving it

(56:02):
to it, Because again, the brainallows better movement when it
has a better idea of what'sgoing on and it's getting better
inputs.
Yeah.
When the brain is not surewhat's going on, it'll either
lock, reduce movements, or it'llsend you pain to get you to
stop, And vice versa.
Let's say you're doing squatsand you went to reach down and
try to touch toes and all of asudden you couldn't go like half

(56:22):
as far, That would tell you thatthere's something going, either
the resistance is too high, yourmovement's not something's not,
your nervous system's just notready for that load today, and
you would have to reduce thatload, Now you could take this
one step further, You know,forward bend, squat, it got
better.
Cool.
Add a little weight.
Forward bend, squat, retest.
It got better.

(56:43):
Go again, Add a little bit moreresistance, You learn to have
this communication with yourbody.
And then as soon as you get tothe point where, oh, hold on,
that's not better anymore.
Cool.
Done.
Squatting for the day.
Move on to the next activity,You know, and so it's learning,
learning to have a conversationwith your nervous system, with
your body, And I think that'swhat this idea of testing, doing

(57:04):
an exercise or a drill and thenretesting, Now you can also like
it could be a movement.
It could be a range of motion.
It could be a movement.
It can be an exercise.
You can test anything.
You test your balance, yourvision, The test isn't as
important as doing somethingbefore trying your
implementation, whichever thatis, you know, whether that be a
sprint or a squat or, you know,tennis serve, you know, whatever
it is.
And then retesting after andsay, was that good information

(57:26):
for my brain?
Did my nervous system open up mybody because I gave a good
information or did it reduce mymovement or send me like, Oh,
no, actually, that's reallystiff.
Now that almost hurts a littlebit to rotate like that or
whatever.
And that's kind of tellingyourself that like, oh, that's
not quite exactly And if you hadno change, say you did your
forward bends, you squatted, yougot no change after you retested

(57:48):
that just means that therewasn't a big enough input for
your brain to even register whatyou're trying to do, Because the
brain is, to make change in thebrain, it is, Costly.
And so if you don't give it abig enough stimulus, you aren't
creating enough Not creating abig enough input to create
change.
And the brain will just be like,Oh, I, I don't really care about

(58:11):
that because you know, I don'twant to spend all this energy to
create this change inside thebody.
So you have to make sure.
So if you're not getting achange, typically typically
means that the difficulty of themovement, the exercise Whatever
it is that you're doing isn'tisn't high enough.
And so you can keep eitherraising the resistance up the
reps, Something like that tomake it more challenging and
then retest and see how that'sgoing for your body.

(58:31):
One of the most mind blowingthings that I ever learned about
the human body is that you canhave a conversation with it and
that it is not taught toathletes throughout their
career, Like it's, you know,I've worked with, You know, you
know, youth athletes all the wayto professional athletes.
And this is something thatalways blows their mind.
It's like, well, how do I knowif this is going to work?
Did you test it?
You know, do you have to trainboth sides of your body the same

(58:52):
way?
Maybe.
Maybe not, And the only way toknow that is to test, So I have
clients who do certain movementson one side of their body and do
something completely differenton the other side of their body
because they don't need the sameinput on both sides, Because of
the sport they play or the thejob they have, whatever it is,
And so the only way to knowthat, though, is to have some
kind of reliable communicationwith the nervous system, which

(59:15):
is the brain, the body andeverything it controls, so that
you can, you know, differentiatewhat are the really good things
for my body and what are Theless ideal inputs for my body.

Coach U (59:24):
Yeah, I think it gets overlooked because the sexy
thing is lifting weights andbeing in the gym and sweating
and, you know, being sore andleaving super gassed.
And you don't realize, I mean,that was what we grew up with.
And I think over the past 20years, it's very much evolved
and understanding more of thescience Let's, let's finish up
with stress, stress and anxietybecause I do want to, I know,

(59:46):
especially now, I feel like Icouldn't imagine being a kid now
and, and going through, Lifewith the amount of information
that's in their faces and theexpectations.
I think everything's so sped up,even myself, like during COVID,
I was chilling.
I was chilling.
And obviously I know it was atough time for many reasons, but
for me, my personal experiencewas like, I was like, wow, I, I
can like sit back.

(01:00:07):
I can breathe.
I can take care of myself.
I can read, I can do the thingsthat I want to, you get thrown
back into the world.
And it's like, just.
Boom, you're back in it.
Now stress is there.
So anxiety goes up, stress isup.
Those can lead to pain.
Those can lead to injuries.
Those can lead to breakdowns,mental breakdowns.
So when it comes to breathing,how can this help us with our

(01:00:28):
stress and anxiety?

Kenny O'shea (01:00:31):
Obviously the way we breathe, we, we've talked
about it I think prettyextensively the way we breathe
influences our nervous systemstate.
So if you're giving this signal,Constantly by breathing through
your mouth, taking a short,shallow breaths.
You are constantly telling yourbody to be in this ancient,
stressed out, very alert and ahyper alert state.
So we know that that breathinghas an influence on this stuff,

(01:00:51):
we know that whether we move ordon't move, it's going to have
an influence on how our mentalhealth overall, You know, we
know that exercise is probablyone of the most underrated
natural antidepressants ever,You know, like by far, if you
look at studies, Studies thatuse pills to help people with
their mental health and andpharmacology to help people with

(01:01:12):
their mental health whencompared to compared to groups
that just implement exercise,the rates are either very
similar or usually the exercisegroup is even higher, You know
when you combine both, yes, youdefinitely get a positive effect
for a lot of people.
And, you know, some people needthe pharmacology support because
their system is just, you know,been through so much, You know
and, but the goal is with or atleast my goal When I think about

(01:01:35):
that, you know, and everybody'svery individual.
So this isn't across the board.
But I think the goal is if youdo need an intervention like
that, that's cool and you shoulduse it, but the goal should be
probably eventually to not haveto use it forever.
Just like we put a cast on tohelp a bone heal, but then we
eventually take the cast off sothat it can get loaded and get
used and we can, you know, kindof move through life and it can

(01:01:58):
adapt.
If you're stressed and anxious,we know that your breathing rate
has changed, your depth of haschanged to gotten more shallow
and the crazy part about this,and this is the, this is the
hamster wheel that I think is soeasy to get stuck on for people
is that by doing that.
Over time, what happens is thatwe talked about how carbon

(01:02:18):
dioxide is the main signal tothe brain that it's time to
change the way we're breathing,So the problem is, is that by
breathing rapid and shallow overtime, the threshold where we get
that signal lowers.
And so now it takes less input.
to get to that threshold.

(01:02:38):
So then we start breathingshallower and faster because
we've already hit thatthreshold.
Well, that starts to producemore symptoms of anxiety, more
unpleasant symptoms, I shouldsay, It doesn't necessarily have
to be anxiety or stress, butlike it's usually more
unpleasant symptoms.
Which then feeds the anxiety andstress which then changes the
breathing which then causes moresymptoms and then you're just on

(01:02:59):
this never ending hamster wheelof your Your stress and anxious
your breathing changes whichcauses more symptoms which makes
you more stressed and anxiouswhich changes your breathing
Let's go, you know and then andso one of the goals that I do
with a lot of people that haveyou know Panic attacks anxiety
stress things like that is thatwe have to slowly increase their
tolerance to co2 You And thatcan be done in a multitude of

(01:03:23):
ways, but that is a huge gamechanger for a lot of these
people and, you know, learningto control their training so
that they can do it.
Nasal breathing over time isgoing to help to regulate their
CO2 levels and raise thatthreshold.
You know, things like makingsure they're breathing through
their nose at night and notthrough their mouth.
So they're not blowing off allthis carbon dioxide, That's
another thing we see a lot withpain patients too, is that, you

(01:03:43):
know, they have sleep apnea, Andso they're for eight hours a
night, They are not getting goodcirculation around their body
because they're blowing off toomuch carbon dioxide.
this cascade of events andbreathing seems to be one of the
things, again, that we haveconscious control over that we
can Work and train that willhelp to alleviate some of these

(01:04:04):
symptoms.
And again, exercise is one ofthe most underrated
antidepressants out there, Well,now what if you combined
movement exercise, With properbreathing?
Well, of course, that's going tomake you feel much better.
Of course, that's going toslowly raise your CO2 tolerance,
which is going to give you moreresiliency to stress coming in
your body, because you're goingto have more capacity to adapt,
I think that's what happens topeople who are chronically

(01:04:26):
stressed and anxious is that.
That CO2 window gets reduced andtheir capacity to handle more
and more just gets minimallyreduced.
And again, that, that same ideaof that threat bucket.
It's just too full, And we gotto find a way to empty it and
breathing properly.
Exercising is just like emptyingthe bucket, I try to do all of
this because this is allinterconnected in my mind, You

(01:04:47):
know, I try to teach all of thisbecause they are so
interconnected in the way thatthey, they function and help
people.
And change the way that peopleare feeling you know, so I think
that that's kind of what I seekind of as the stress anxiety
component.
And yeah, to be a kid now and todo the harder things in life,
which is, you know, to bedisciplined about, you know,

(01:05:09):
what you're consuming, how muchof it you're consuming, you know
and to, you know, try to useyour body effectively, And, and
not to, you know, and there'sthe other end of the spectrum,
is overtraining.
You know, which is just the farend of the spectrum.
But to be conscious about theway that you are training to to
make yourself better and not ahundred percent better today,
but, you know, one, 2 percentbetter each day.

(01:05:31):
It's very challenging.
It's challenging for adults todo, you know?
So the idea that kids are goingto be able to do it without
guidance and support is, youknow, it's, it's very special
individual in my mind.
You can do that.
And yeah, there is just a lotof, a lot of distractions out
there, And for adults, for kids,for everybody, And there's so
many things trying to grab yourattention and it's hard to, at
times, you know, distanceyourself from those things that

(01:05:54):
you have, you know, all thosethings, all that information
that we're consuming, Whether itbe, you know, actual, you know,
bad news about what's going onin the world, whether it be, you
know, just, you know,Information overload, is is a
thing, You know, we can onlyprocess so much in one day, And
so if we get hit with more andmore information constantly,
it's going to keep us in thiskind of hyper aroused state.

(01:06:15):
And then, you know, sleep issuch a huge component of
everything we've talked abouttoday that we haven't really
talked about, You know, likeproper sleep influences our
stress levels, influences ourmental health, Influences our
food choices, all of thesethings, You know,

Coach U (01:06:29):
Pain receptors

people who, Pain recept all of it, You know, so
getting good quality sleep,which means, you know, having
discipline with your you know,your light environments, you
know, that'd be not using yourphone super late at night, super
close to bed, You know, nothaving all these super bright
lights on that are telling yourbody that it's new, You know,
like those are all littlethings, you know, how you time
your food before bed and alllike there's so many factors

(01:06:51):
that go into it.
But this is, you know, sleep, Ithink is one of those other huge
components.
And the problem is, is that Whenyou're really stressed and
anxious, it's hard to get reallygood sleep, So it's always, it's
this con, that's what I mean bythis

Coach U (01:07:02):
the hamster wheel.
Yep.

can get on.
It's a hamster wheel and it's,it's, I understand it's
incredibly challenging to getoff, you know, and it's, it's
takes time and effort to breakthat cycle, but it's doable, You
know, it's doable by implantimplementing systematic change.
And deliberate change, And itdoesn't.
And you know, with my clients, Ialways try to tell them,

(01:07:23):
especially the super anxious andstressed ones.
I was like, okay, I've taughtyou 10 things, What's the thing
that you are gravitating towardsthe most now?
You know, like, Oh, I like thisparticular breathing style.
It's like, cool, let's do that.
Okay.
I want you to do it for, youknow, once a day for five
minutes.
Okay, cool.
You did that.
Great.
Oh, you couldn't do once aminute for five.
Okay.

(01:07:43):
I want you to do it for oneminute.
Okay.
Once a day, And like how easysometimes you have to make
things so easy for people tobuild the habit that they can
actually feel like they'rewinning, You know, rather than
adding one more thing that theyhave to do on top of the million
other things that they thinkthat they might need to do, You
know, so it's like, how can wemake it so easy?

(01:08:05):
That it would almost beimpossible to not complete or
to, to fail at.
You know, and I think that's howyou start to build the habits to
create the kind of changes thatwe're talking about here.
And I think that that's wheremost people struggle the most
and myself included, You know,like most people, like, you
know, it's like, okay, I'm goingto start doing, you know, this,
this, and this, and I'm gonna doit really hard for, you know,

(01:08:26):
like a week, a month.
And then they fall off.
And it's like, no, no, it wouldbe much better to, you know, Go
slow, To slow down our pace sowe can breathe through the nose,
And build over time, Rather thantrying to make, you know,
massive change all at once.
It's not that it's impossible.
It's just much more challengingto sustain over the long term,
You know, and I think that's,that's what we're talking about.

(01:08:47):
We come to mental health is thatwe're going to have ups and
downs in lives.
We're going to have stressorsthat come into our life.
And, you know, it's about givingourselves the best shot at
having the capacity to, youknow, Handle those stressors,
but then also recover from them.
And, you know, and I think thatrecovery is getting bigger when
we talk about from an athleticstandpoint, you know, like five

(01:09:07):
years ago, there was no, therewas no thought of like, how do
you properly recover from aworkout?
How do you, you know, Thatwasn't the thing.
And now we're starting todefinitely take.
A professional approach, notonly to our training, but to our
recovery.
And I think that's where breathwork and all these other things
can really come into play islike they help us recover so
that we can perform the nexttime at a very high level but it

(01:09:28):
takes time, This is not a oneday process.
You know, this can be, you know,months to years, you know, And
that's the hard part for peopleto jump on.

Coach U (01:09:36):
Yeah.
No, I think making it thatlifelong journey instead of it
being like I'm going to get hereby.
You know, October and it's like,all that's cool.
You can have those mini goals,but like make it a lifelong
thing.
You're just going to show up foryourself and you know, do what
you need to, to take care ofyourself.
So I love that.
This has been a beautifulconversation.
I love everything that you'vetouched on.
I want you to let people knowabout the workshops and who's it

(01:09:58):
for and you know, why, why youwould recommend them to come, I
want people to learn more aboutthis stuff.
So what are the workshops likeand who are they for?

yeah, so I mean the workshops can so there's a
couple things going on now withmy business now So pretty soon
it hasn't launched yet.
We've had some back and forthwith the Apple and things like
that.
So I have an app coming outpretty soon that will Showcase
all the breathing mobility thatwe kind of talked about A little
bit today some of the softtissue work to help with
breathing and things like that.

(01:10:26):
I really focused the app onbreathing.
The workshops are anything fromspecific Wim Hof workshops,
which are great for you know,whether that be you know, just
wanting to learn more aboutbreath work, wanting to have
some kind of experience withbreath work.
Great for pain management for alot of people.
Also great for just kind ofoverall mental health benefits.
Cause when you combine it withthe ice, there's all kinds of

(01:10:47):
endorphins and things like that,that can release that can really
Pull someone out of a place tohelp them start to be able to
implement some of these things,And kind of get them from that
stuck point to moving a littlebit better.
When we do a retreat, webasically go through several
different styles of breathingand we're going to spend an
entire day just going throughthose different styles of
breathing in just a single dayevent and same, you know, the

(01:11:08):
only people that I would mayberecommend that this isn't for
necessarily.
Unfortunately, people who arepregnant aren't really supposed
to be doing the Wim Hof methodbecause we don't want to reduce
oxygen to a baby for any reason.
And so we don't recommend it forthat.
And there are certain type ofepileptics who aren't
recommended for intensebreathing, It's because it can

(01:11:29):
trigger a seizure.
And so those are pretty much theonly people who I'd say it's not
for other than that, you know,it's basically for anybody who
wants to either have anexperience with their body and
their breath Who wants to learna little bit more about how they
can apply this to theirperformance or to manage their
pain, stress, and anxiety.
And then, so that's kind of theworkshops.
And then we have retreats thatwe do throughout the year.
So our next one, the only one Ihave scheduled now, and I'm

(01:11:51):
hoping to do one in the fall,but I have the winter one
scheduled already.
So we do a event up at a mansionand like South Lake Tahoe.
And we you know, teach you allthe breath work.
We jump in the Lake in themiddle of January, You know, and
we just teach you how to be ableto.
Not only physically do all thesethings, but mentally do hard
things.
You know, cause it, it could bea big mental challenge to go in.

(01:12:12):
And if you're from California,you know what that is like to
get to go into Tahoe during thesummer is not super warm.
So Tahoe during the winter is a,is a little different, you know?
So yeah, so like we do differentworkshops and events like that.
Beyond that you know, I have sothat's kind of like.
The main bulk of the refugeeset, which is my business.
And then I also do like one onone stuff with clients, whether
that be, you know, at my office,at my clinic where I work hands

(01:12:34):
on with them, or I do virtualstuff with them online teaching
them breathwork, teaching themsome of those self myofascial
release teaching, you know, themobility and things like that
from afar and the appliedneurology.
I do do a free class online onSundays.
Where it's a, to you know,really expose this information
to people, you know, and we'vebasically gone through, so I
started it, I think last alittle over a year ago, and I

(01:12:56):
basically went through all thesoft tissue releases, I know,
both with a tool and with yourown hands.
I went through all the mobilitythat I know joint by joint in
the body.
I went through my buddy, Chuckteaches all the breathing, And
then we just got through all thevestibular stuff.
So, you know, teaching peoplehow to train their vestibular
system to increase their balanceand their performance and, you
know, If you feel off balance,your pain levels are usually

(01:13:20):
pretty high, So yeah, we got theworkshops.
So sometimes they're day events,sometimes a couple hours,
sometimes they're all day.
Sometimes we can do entireweekends with retreats.
We have the online class, wehave in person clinic stuff and
then online virtual stuff too.

Coach U (01:13:34):
Can people reach out to you?

Yeah, so you can go to the website.
So www.
refugereset.
com.
So refugereset.
com or just Ken at refuge reset.
So R E F U G E and then reset.
R E S E T dot com.
You send me an email.
Free class is on meetup.
So if you search Breathwork,either Bay Area or Breathwork,
Sacramento, you'll find themeetup group.

(01:13:56):
And in there you'll find thelink, not only to Chuck's free
class.
He does two a week, one Sundaymornings at 11 and Mondays at
night at 9 PM, I think.
And then I do my class usuallySundays at about 10, 15.
It's just usually about a halfhour where I'm teaching.
And then I spend, you know, 10,15 minutes usually at the end
answering questions for peopleand things like that.

(01:14:17):
So, yeah, those are usuallywhere you can find and connect.
That's, that's it.
Yeah,

Coach U (01:14:22):
Awesome.
Ken, this has been super fun.
Thank you so much for taking thetime and to talk about all this
stuff.
I've learned a lot.
I'm going to have to take a lotof notes when I read it, this
bad boy,

yeah.
I hope it wasn't too much, youknow, some, I do have a tendency
to go a little into the woods attimes, but I, I do my best to
make it simple.
Because.
You know, simplicity is how youlearn, You know, you can't learn
complex things until youunderstand simple things.
And, you know, I'm all aboutfirst principles or the
mechanisms, You know, so if youunderstand the principles and
the mechanisms of what's goingon, then you can make these

(01:14:54):
adaptations however you want,You know, and so I think that's
the key.
So hopefully I was able toimpart some of that to you and
to whoever's listening.
And yes, thank you so much forhaving me.
It's always, I mean, you cantell that I love talking about
this stuff.
I could talk about it for hourson end.
that I will spend the rest of mylife you know, learning more and
educating myself more and thatthe human body itself is

(01:15:15):
something so complex that I willnever, ever learn it all.
And that's why, you know, it'sso important to have people.
You know, like yourself, likeother professionals that, you
know, you can talk with and,and, and refer to, to help, you
know, people on their journey,because it's not a one size fits
all for everybody.
And everybody offers something alittle special and a little
different.
And, you know, giving people theopportunity to experience other

(01:15:36):
people's special sauce is reallyimportant too.

Coach U (01:15:39):
I agree, man.
I agree.
I'm going to make sure all ofthe show notes has your
information and contacts.
I would love for people to beable to hop into those the, the
free classes.
Cause I think it's amazing thatyou're doing that and that
you're offering thisinformation.
I appreciate you man.
Thank you so much and we willtalk

Of course.
Thank you.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Fudd Around And Find Out

Crime Junkie

The Breakfast Club

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Mastering Breath Work: Techniques for Pain Relief and Peak Performance with Ken O'Shea of Refuge Reset

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Fudd Around And Find Out

Crime Junkie

The Breakfast Club

All Episodes

Mastering Breath Work: Techniques for Pain Relief and Peak Performance with Ken O'Shea of Refuge Reset

Fudd Around And Find Out