Navigating Pain and Fitness: Insights from Dr. Donald Mull

Welcome back to the Coach U Podcast! In today's episode, we have a special guest joining us: Dr. Donald Mull.

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Dr. Mull is here to share his insights and experiences on the current state of the medical system and the importance of collaboration in the health and fitness industry.

Dr. Mull starts by addressing the challenges of high demand and long wait times in the medical system. He believes that urgent care centers, while crucial for saving lives, often prioritize non-urgent cases and leave patients waiting. He advocates for the establishment of more accessible clinics and better reimbursements for healthcare services.

Collaboration and learning from others is a key theme in Dr. Mull's discussion. He emphasizes the importance of humility and being open to learning from professionals in different fields. By breaking down the silos that exist within the industry, professionals can avoid issues like under-dosing and injuries.

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In addition to his insights on collaboration, Dr. Mull touches on topics ranging from the importance of patient expertise in their own pain experiences to the need for a complete overhaul of the US healthcare system. He praises the US for its exceptional life-saving capabilities but acknowledges the system's shortcomings in preventive healthcare and chronic illness management.

Join us in this thought-provoking episode as we dive into the intricacies of the medical system, the importance of collaboration in the health and fitness industry, and the steps we can take to improve the well-being of individuals. Stay tuned for an enlightening conversation with Dr. Donald Mull on the Coach U Podcast.
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Please join the conversation!  Add comments or ask questions to start a discussion.

00:37 FPM seminars cater to unique health professionals.
05:04 Physical activity important for long-term health.
08:12 Learning from others, pushing industry forward.
10:54 Questioning basics, options, and leverage for health.
13:56 Low back pain cost rising despite advancements.
18:57 Options for pain relief: injections or surgery.
22:29 Guide, understand, provide positive experience, hit guidelines, reassure safety, avoid chronic illness, violate pain expectations.
25:33 Health care system needs holistic approach, empathy
28:31 US spends most on healthcare, worst outcomes.
30:10 Stop. Discipline can change life habits.
34:15 Following World Health Organization guidelines reduces pain.
39:12 Positive relationship with physical activity, expanding capabilities, enjoyment, positive health performances, important for those in pain, gamifying things, making it fun.
40:07 MRI not always necessary for precise treatment.
44:28 Gamification adapts to individual needs for maximum impact.
48:24 Meeting people where they're at, goal-oriented deconstruction. Strength and force for sports, varied approaches needed.
52:07 "Vaccination to decrease injury risk in athletes."
55:07 Trust people, be dumb, ask questions.
57:13 Jumping high, small hands hinder basketball dreams.

Donald Mull's Contact and Content Information 
https://linktr.ee/Kineticimpact

Episode Transcript

Coach U (00:18):
Hey, what's up, everybody?
Welcome to the coach u podcast.
I'm your host coach U today.
We're being joined by Dr.
Donald Mull.
What's up, Donald?
How you doing, man?

Donald Mull (00:27):
Good, man.
Thank you so much for having

Coach U (00:28):
me, dude.
So glad you're joining us.
We've had some coolconversations in the past and I
met you in 2021, September 2021at a small seminar.
It was a very small groupseminar here in Los Angeles,
California, Santa Monica withDr.
Craig Liebenson and Dr.
Ryan Chow, they led the group,First Principles of Movement.
It was such a cool little groupand we, it was like 22 of us, I

(00:50):
think, and I loved it.
What do you remember about that,that whole time?

Donald Mull (00:56):
Yeah, man, so I've been to quite a few of the the
FPM seminars whether it be likeassisting with Craig and Ryan
or, or just attending and What Ilove about those it's all unique
to and catered kind of towardsthe the group and audience man
and it's always a group of a mixof ATCs, chiros, physical
therapists, strength coaches,personal trainers, and what I

(01:20):
remember most about that inparticular was the roundtable.
Kinda like round tablediscussions and, and see and
hearing everybody's differentniches and perspectives on how
they work with people in thehealth and industry field.
And then the collaboration andlearning together and, and
understanding the, the strugglesthat, that each profession has

(01:40):
with working with humans andhelping humans.
And it was a really good, uniquegroup, man.
I loved, I loved Santa Monica.

Coach U (01:47):
Yeah, Santa Monica is pretty great, man.
But you're not too far fromSanta Monica.
You're out in San Diego.
Whereabouts exactly in San Diegoare you?

Donald Mull (01:55):
Yeah, I'm in Northeast County.
It's, it's technically 4S Ranch,a little small community outside
of Poway, Escondido kind of like40 minutes north of downtown.

Coach U (02:05):
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
So you're right down there.
Okay.
And then that, that's where youryour practice is.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your practice?

Donald Mull (02:12):
Yeah.
So I started my practice rightout of getting my doctorate in
chiropractic.
I got my undergrad inKinesiology at University of La
Verne, where I played football.
That's kind of where it allstarted.
Cause that's where my strength,I met my strength coach and he
was like my second dad.
And kind of where I knew Iwanted to get into health care,
went the EMP route, saw somedeaths and was like, I need to

(02:32):
have mad respect for firstresponders, but I want to, I
want to help in the preventativeworld.
So I looked into physicaltherapy in Cairo.
I had never been to Cairobefore, but I liked the ability
to open access.
Basically don't need MDreferrals or anything like that.
So long story short, met mybusiness partner in school.

(02:55):
We got along because we werejust movement based.
We were a little different inregards to our, to in comparison
to our, our cohort.
So we, we worked together reallylike throughout, throughout
school.
We started a practice on thecorner of like a little strength
conditioning facility, right onthe turf, 2, 500 square feet,
you have like sevenindependently contracted

(03:17):
personal trainers and strengthcoaches that were just, and we
just had two tables in thecorner and we kind of grinded
and started the business andgrew from there.
And now we kind of grew and wetook over like a loft area and
still had access to, to thatthat gym downstairs.
We have like, now we have likea, a clinic gym hybrid.
We see.
A lot of general populationsthat just want to be physically

(03:38):
active and realize like they'vetried a lot of things and they
want to be physically active,but something is getting in the
way.
So, it's not like we just treatlow back, we treat all of it,
the whole gamut and we see, we,we, our specialty is just
helping people get back to beingphysically active and our main
modality is exercise.

Coach U (03:58):
I love it, man.
Well, I mean, they say do whatyou love and you won't work a
day, right?
So obviously there's a lot ofwork to be done.
But you know, it's not just aneasy road, but I will, you know,
what, what, why do you love whatyou do?

Donald Mull (04:12):
Man, that's a good question.
I, I, I think it's the, theability to help guide somebody
become stronger, the most, thestrongest they've ever become.
When they're the most vulnerabletime in their life oftentimes
people come to us and they'reout there with them and they're
super frustrated and, and wespend a lot of time with people.

(04:34):
So sometimes like there's tearsin the first consultation
because it's a tough time forthem.
And then fast forward to.
Two, three, six months down theroad.
And we're getting texts aboutthe stuff that they're doing.
Right.
And you get it as a personaltrainer, right?
Because when you lift thosephysical limitations, it's not
about bench pressing, I tellpeople all the time, like, yeah,

(04:55):
it's cool that we can learn.
Right.
But like.
When you pick up your kid andthrow them in the pool and you
don't have pain and you don'tand you just realize that that's
the first time you've done it intwo years, that's powerful.
And I think that's like the bigreason.
We know that we have aninactivity crisis in the Western
civilization, United States,it's estimated that 16 percent

(05:17):
of people meet the World HealthOrganization.
Guide for physical activity,which is really not that much,
it's 150 to 300 minutes ofphysical activity, moderate to
vigorous cardio and, and twotimes a week resistance
training.
It's just really 30 minutes aday of huffing and puffing with
a couple days of, of movingheavy objects.
And not a lot of people get it.

(05:39):
And I think for me, what I'verealized, Is I can help people
not only overcome these physicalissues, but I can set them up
with positive experiences thatwill set them up to have these
tools for the rest of theirlife.
Right.

(06:00):
So they're less likely to die ofthese chronic illnesses.
Right.
The World Health Organization,they estimate that most people
live 16 years of the end part oftheir lives with some sort of
disability.
So crazy.
So it's, it's, that's incrediblypowerful and my why is I watched

(06:22):
my dad do it.
He had a stroke at when I wasnine years old and lived until I
was 30.
Right.
So you do the math of how manyyears he lived in disability.
It's, it's, I watched itfirsthand.
Right.
So, so my why is, is I, I, Iwant to leverage my knowledge to
help people live.
Not just live longer, but stayyoung longer and, and, and

(06:47):
really live quality life, butnot just quantity of life.
Right,

Coach U (06:52):
right.
No, that's, that's the way youdo it, man.
That's where that's going tocarry you.
And people will feel that.
And, you know, as a trainer,I've seen that.
That when you're authentic andthat people know that you care
about them and their wellbeing,as opposed to just being a
number coming in and out thedoor, it matters, it matters to
them.
And people can feel that andthey know it's authentic.
So I love that.
You'd love that, man.
You know, I love that.
It's, it's been a personal thingfor you too, because that's

(07:16):
typically where we're going toget the best, most passionate
work.
So thank you for being that waywith your work.
So why do you think it'simportant?
I want to go back a little bitto our seminar back in 2021.
And why do you think it'simportant for coaches, trainers,
and chiropractors, physicaltherapists, other health
specialists to, you know,collaborate together, learn
together, to be able to be openaround each other and

(07:36):
vulnerable.

Donald Mull (07:39):
I think, I think humility is important, right?
I think the ability and thewillingness to, to learn from
other people will, is really theonly way that this industry can
grow.
I think when we're too siloed inour, in our corners, we have
this epidemic of physicaltherapists underdosing their
clients.
Or we have the, the boom andbuff personal trainers that go

(08:03):
super ham and, and their clientsend up getting hurt because it's
too fast, too soon, right?
But if we learn from each otherif we learn from the best
strength conditioning coacheswho get the best buy in for our
programs, then physicaltherapists and chiropractors
won't have this excuse of, oh,they're just not compliant,
right?
We'll learn from strength andconditioning coaches.

(08:23):
They've been getting people tobuy in for.
Years for decades, right?
They've been, they've beenputting all this stuff and
getting people to, to bephysically active, right?
And then vice versa.
Strength coaches can learn fromphysical therapists and
chiropractors in regards tolike, oh, wow.
When that happens, I gotta makesure that I gotta get them to
see the right person and makesure that they're, they're good

(08:44):
and they don't have any of thesered flags that are life
threatening or limb threatening.
And I think if, if we just stay.
With our blinders on, there's,there's no way we can learn from
that.
And I think I personally believeevery interaction I have with
any single human it's anopportunity to learn something
from that person.
Right.
I, it's everybody has somethingthat they could bring to the

(09:06):
table.
As long as I'm willing to listenand be open to it.
And if it's useful information,I'm going to take it along with
it.
And I think that that's, I thinkthat's how we push the industry
forward because.
In my personal opinion, I thinkwe have a long ways to go and I
think we have a lot ofopportunity to, to gain allies
with not only like our clientsand patients, but also like the,

(09:29):
our fellow colleagues in theindustry.

Coach U (09:32):
I completely agree with that.
And I mean, I did walk away withthat whole experience as
feeling, you know, as a trainer,not going, I didn't go to school
for for exercise science.
I went to school for broadcastjournalism, hence all of this.
Right.
But you know, I, I put myselfthrough all the studies.
I've gone to seminars, I'vetalked to people.
And that was the one thing thatreally stuck out to me was

(09:54):
Everyone was open in that, and Ilearned from doctors, from
chiropractors, from PTs, andstrength coaches, and different,
even in the training world,there's so many different
specialties, even in thedoctor's world, there's so many
specialties, and so you can pullsomething from everybody.
And that's something I'm, I'mglad that you're about as well,
because, you know, I thinknowadays, it's really easy to
get into like a niche.
It's so easy to be like, I'm allKettlebell.

(10:14):
I'm all X.
I'm all Y.
And it's like, why can't youjust say like, I pulled this
from Kettlebell World.
I pulled this from X.
I pulled this from Y.
And you can utilize that and putit in your toolbox.
You know, have that in yourCalvary to be able to use later
on.
And so I'm, I'm so on board withyou on that, man.
Because I think being able topull everything together to make
your own arsenal is the best wayto do it.

(10:36):
And, and you're more versatileat that point.

Donald Mull (10:39):
I think that's important too.
It's like a lot of people clingon to these techniques and, and
they're very fatty and sexy andit makes for good posts.
And yeah, like you can't, noteverybody can use a barbell.
Not everybody can use akettlebell.
Not everybody needs activerelease technique or all these
clinical techniques, right?

(11:00):
Like, There, there needs to beoverlap in everything, and I
think being a slave to a methodputs the blinders on, and
whenever, whenever I hearsomething that there's
absolutes, I, I raise and Iquestion, I become very
skeptical because there's, themore I study the field of human

(11:23):
performance and pain and pain,I, Just about human conditions.
And the more I listened to veryexperienced individuals, the
more I realized that A lot ofthe times, it's just the
overlaps of people doing thebasics really well who are very
healthy, and there's so manyways to do it, and that's,

(11:45):
that's my personal take home is,is, and that's encouraging to me
because optionality is, issomething that we can leverage
in a very positive way andsomething that in my specialty,
we've seen a lot of people whoare concerned with pain is, is,
is something that I think is, isvery powerful.
But it also on the humanperformance side, I think is

(12:06):
very powerful, right?
Because if you have anindividual that's not
comfortable, it doesn't likedoing an exercise.
Well, why are you doing theexercise?
Yeah.
Okay.
If you know why you're doing theexercise.
Okay.
I got like 15 other options Ican do to, to, to train that
physical quality to get theoutcome that we're looking for.
Techniques aren't going to giveyou that methods aren't going to
give you that.

(12:26):
However, I think that you got totrain within the box and master
the box to be able to thinkoutside of it.
I do think that that'simportant.
Like you can't just be like, Idon't need any of this stuff
about kinesiology, biomechanics,anatomy, all the hard stuff.
You got to know that stuff andunderstand it, and then apply it

(12:47):
in different ways, and I thinkthat's the art of coaching, and
the art of being a human, whichI feel the clinicians aren't
enough of, is just being ahuman.
I'm just a dude that is going todo my best.
I don't know everything, but Iwill tell you this and what I

(13:08):
will promise you.
I can't promise you beingabsolutely pain free.
I can't promise you these elitefitness and performance goals,
but I could promise you this.
I will be in your corner and Iwill ride or die with you and I
will figure out whatever I needto figure out and I'll support
you.
And methods don't teach youthat.

Coach U (13:28):
You're talking there about chronic pain or pain in
general.
In other words, I want to shiftto chronic pain a little bit
more because, you know, it'ssomething that.
is prevalent in our world today.
It's very prevalent, and I knowit's probably because, yeah, we
have more diagnoses and stuff.
Sure.
But the reality is that peopledeal with pain, whatever you
want to call him.
And I recently had a spat.
You know that we talked about iton the phone.

(13:48):
And you know, at the time wetalked, and it probably was like
three weeks, four weeks ago.
And I was not in a good placementally.
I was, like, I just want to beable to walk without pain.
It's like, how do you deal withit?
And I really want to know howyou deal with people who have
chronic pain.
What do you do, you know, yousaid be a human.
I think that is number one.

(14:09):
But, you know, what do you wantpeople to know about chronic
pain?
And how do you help yourpatients with it?

Donald Mull (14:15):
It's a, it's a topic that, that could be an
entire semester's worth oflearning in and of itself.
Right.
And it's, and it's somethingthat I think we're still
learning so much about.
And, and I think this isimportant to talk about because
low back pain in particular iscosting us billions of dollars,
trillions of dollars, and we'renot doing better at it.

(14:37):
In the past 15 years, the costcontinues to rise despite the
advancements of technology thatwe have in regards to imaging
and all the bells and whistles,all these fancy treatments and
all this stuff.
And why is it continue to getworse?
One of the biggest things Ithink is that is important for
people to realize is, is theyare the expert.

(15:01):
They, it's not the doctors thatthey are seeing, it's, it's
them.
Nobody experiences what they areexperiencing other than them.
Okay, so on day one, I make surepeople know that, like they are
the captain of this ship.
I will do my best to help pointtwo directions and see if we can
take the best route and reroutewhen I think is best, but like

(15:23):
they are the captain becausethey know and they are the
experts of what they'reexperiencing.
And the second thing is that youare not your diagnosis.
I learned from Craig is don'tlet your biology become your
biography.
Just because you have a bulgethis doesn't make you that bold.
Yeah, right.

(15:43):
I think that I think that's alsoimportant

Coach U (15:46):
What's crazy about that real quick?
Is that I remember him talkingabout that and even as I was
sitting there getting the MRIgoing over the MRI with the
doctor Seeing that my disc wasout so far there was fear that
it's that sat in me and I workin the field So I can't even
imagine people who don't reallyknow about the body or have
resources like I do

Donald Mull (16:06):
Yeah, and, and that fear has an effect on pain,
right?
Absolutely.
that, that's another thing, Iremember us having this
conversation, I think, I thinkin, in regards to low back pain
in general, I, I think there's afew things that I tell people
that's important, right, andthat I told you is, is that
people have herniated discs and,and don't have any pain at all,

(16:26):
right?
And that doesn't mean that it'snot coming, that, that you don't
have pain in the, in the disc atall.
What it does mean, though, ismaybe there's hope that you can.
You can have that discherniation without any pain.
And the second thing is that weknow that disc herniation is
healed.
Actually, the worse the discherniation, the better it heals.
And so it's hopeful that it doesheal without doing anything.

(16:46):
And these studies were just 6,3, months follow ups without
really doing anything.
And so, so time heals, right,for a lot of, a lot of things.
That's hopeful that maybe it'llheal.
Right.
And then we know that a lot ofthings have an effect on pain,
whether that be what, whatyou've experienced in the past,

(17:07):
what you expect to happen in thefuture, what mood you're in,
right, does that elicit fear,like you just said, probably
going to elicit more of aheightened response.
So what you eat, right?
Do you get sleep?
Like all these, these healththings that we can help people
with.
That can move the needle alittle bit if we have this

(17:27):
conversation, it's a lot morereassuring, right?
But, but let's imagine havingsomebody going into their urgent
care because, they pickedsomething up their back went
out.
Right now they're in the urgentcare and you know, or the
emergency room even better andit's really crowded and and it's
and and they look over the rightand they have somebody with a
broken arm that's crying.

(17:49):
They look over to the leftthere's a laceration wound
that's just bleeding everywhere.
And there's people runningeverywhere and they finally get
back after two hours and theytalked to the doctor for two
minutes.
They did x rays, and they saidthey're all good, and they gave
them, some medication, and they,they told them that, Hey, if, if
things don't get better, you'regonna need to see an orthopedic,

(18:11):
and you may need to get surgery.
Now, compare that with theconversation we just had.
And let's say that it's exactsame changes and exact same
quote unquote diagnosis.
Who may have the better outcome?
Probably the previous one,right?
And I think that's important.
And the final thing I would sayis expectations that there will

(18:34):
be ups and downs.
There will be flare ups.
I think

Coach U (18:39):
that's a huge point.
That's a big, big point.
It's easy to forget that becausepain is tough, man.
Especially, I've neverexperienced pain like that
before.
That was another level, dude.
It takes all of you just to beand to like, live.
Without like thinking about thepain.
So having the positive outlookand knowing, Hey, there are

(19:03):
going to be ups and downs andyou got to expect it.
It is a really big point that Ithink more people need to know,
but like you can't really setpeople up sometimes for the
expectation of the down.
Cause the down can sometimes bereally rough

Donald Mull (19:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I, and I try to do my bestand I, and I try to let them
know, like, listen, like.
Like if there's like ouroptions, if you're not getting
better or if it's absolutelymiserable, here are some options
and there are options ofcortisone injections or
epidurals and pain managementstuff like, yes, we have this

(19:37):
preconceived, I think in myfield, we have this preconceived
notion that nobody wants to havesurgery and nobody wants to have
these medications like, yeah,most people don't, but some
people just want to get out ofpain, right?
And if we look at studies likeThey, it, it, people have fairly
good results who failconservative care when they,

(19:57):
when they have cortisoneinjections and and or epidurals.
Right.
And there's fairly good resultsthere.
Right.
And I think the problem becomesthat if people use them on a
regular basis, right, like,yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I
wouldn't be like, Hey, everythree months you should, you
should, you should take theseshots.
But like we.
Yeah.
If someone's in miserable pain,then we have to let them know

(20:20):
that there's an option, right?
But there will be down, right?
And that's why I think it's onour end as clinicians, this is
where I think the big thingsthat, that our jobs are, it's
listen without judgment andunderstand someone's story from
top to bottom, right?
Like, what

Coach U (20:40):
does that mean to you?
Yeah,

Donald Mull (20:42):
like as Ted Lasso says.
Be curious, not judgmental,right?
So when somebody comes into tome, and the first thing I, I
learned this from Peter O'Fallonis tell me your story, right?
And I listen, because the, theaverage doctor, it takes 5 to 11
seconds For them to interrupt,because they want yes or no

(21:05):
questions.
Do you have numbness?
What type of pain do you feel?
Does it go down your leg?
And it's this banter of justthem leading the conversation.
Imagine going on a date likethat.
How long would you last on thatdate?
I'd be like, I'm out of here.
So to me, it's just aboutlistening.
I shut up and listen.
And I am...

(21:26):
And then I ask open endedquestions, like, what does that
mean to you?
Like, what, like, that questionthere was perfect.
That's how it asks, like, whatdo you think is going on?
Like, what does that mean toyou?
Because I want to know what theyare experiencing.
And what their understanding ofthat experience is.

(21:47):
And then I can have a betteridea of how I can help.
Right and I have to be serious.
And, and let them talk.
Or else I'll never know andunderstand how I can help them.
And help guide them.
Right, and then the second partis validating what they
experience.
Right, like listening is onething.
Right, but I need to be able tovalidate like, and say like, I

(22:09):
understand.
I understand this is likefrustrating.
But whatever the emotionsthey're feeling, I want to make
sure.
They know I understand and thatI truly believe them and and
understand what they're goingthrough to some degree.
Yeah.
I may, I may have neverexperienced it, but that, that

(22:30):
alone goes a long way because abig issue that, that clients
would come into me, their numberone thing is I've never had
anybody.
that actually listened to me.

Coach U (22:45):
That alone is huge.

Donald Mull (22:48):
That's the only way that I can guide and direct and
understand what we're going todo next.
Right.
And then, and then for me, whathappens next is like, if I can
provide a positive experiencewith movement, right.
Cause that goes back to my wife.
Like, I want to make sure thatthis person is confident enough
to, if they're willing and havea good experience with it, to
hit those, those.

(23:09):
World Health Organizationguidelines for physical activity
and be healthy for the rest oftheir lives.
Right?
So they don't have to live thelast 16 years of their life with
disability or chronic illness.
And then last but not least, Imake sure, I reassure them that
things are safe.
Make, after I rule out all thered flag stuff, make sure they

(23:30):
actually are safe.
When they are ready though.
And, and oftentimes that's afterthey feel movement and they feel
safe and they've violated someof those expectations that
something was going to bepainful.
Right.
And then at the end of the day,I, I'm there to support them.

(23:50):
Right.
Like I pride myself on.
Being there for them, you cantext me, you can email me, like,
let me know if you have anyissues.
I want to know real timefeedback.
The next time you come in here,I don't want you to be like, I
don't really remember.
Right?
So like, I text people and Isay, Hey, we did a lot of

(24:10):
movement.
How do you feel?
Right?
And I let them know that I'mlike, there's support there.
Yeah, that's a big part of beinghealthy.
It's feeling a part of acommunity.
And this is why one of ourvalues at Kinetic Impact is
family.
That's our number one value,family.
Because that's a big part ofhealth.
If you feel as though you're apart of a community, that is a

(24:36):
massive sign of health.
Just like not smoking, notdrinking too much.
Outside of being social, right?
Because again, community, right?
And then being physically activeand not eating processed foods,
right?
Those are really the big fivethings of health, right?
And community is huge, right?
So to me, I think support is amassive massive components that

(24:57):
we use to help people in chronicpain and, and who have been
dealing with issues for a longperiod of time.
Because it's a lonely thing tofeel as though you can't do the
things you want to do becauseyour body is stopping you.
Yeah,

Coach U (25:11):
no, it's tough, man.
And, you know, being able tobring it back to them and
revolving it around their life,checking in with them, making
them feel part of thatcommunity.
There's an aspect there of beingseen, and being understood, and
being heard, and all of thosethings are so important because
you could feel alone duringpain, you could feel alone
during those times where youhave the downs, and having

(25:34):
someone check in on you, itcould be the simplest thing,
like a text like that, you know,like, Oh, wow.
Someone's got my back like thatis so big, so much bigger than I
think people realize.
Trainers can do the same thing.
Doctors can do the same thing.
Physical therapists,chiropractors.
We are like everybody can checkin.
That's our job, right?
It's not just one thing, right?
We're not just we're not in thisone category of whatever

(25:56):
profession we're in.
Part of that is what you said,the health.
And I think that's, I'm so gladyou said that because it is nice
to be able to support people inmore ways than just showing them
how to squat and lunge andsprint.
We talked a little bit about,you know, the healthcare system
and.
Not really taking the time toget to know the patient, the
story, the background, andallowing those open ended
questions to be answered or evenasked in most cases.

(26:18):
Why is it really importantthough for our healthcare system
to start to implement thesethings?
What big changes would you seehappening if that were to take
place?

Donald Mull (26:30):
That's a tough one.
I think I'm a little cynical inthis regard because I think
there's probably too many vestedinterests to to make those big
changes because there'sessentially when you go in and
you get treatment, right?
There's billable units, right?
And things like this is hard tobill.
So at the end of the day, it'sa, it's for profit, right?

(26:50):
These hospitals are, mosthospitals are for profit and
insurance companies are private,so they got to, they have their
bottom line too, right?
They got to be able to makeprofit.
They have to make sure that ifthey're public, they have to
make sure their shareholders arehealthy or I mean, sorry, happy.
Right.
So it.
And this is what I think thebiggest thing.

(27:11):
I think if we want to make bigchanges in health care and make
a bigger impact, I think thereneeds to be a non transactional
relationships, and I think weneed to value people over
profit.
Right?
So, yeah, it's not going to makeyou a millionaire and or put you

(27:31):
on Forbes Forbes 500 list.
Like some of these insurancecompanies are, it's just not set
up that way.
Right.
And I feel for the people thatwork in the medical system.
And I feel for those clinicians,because they have to see so many
people, they have to, there's noway it's set up for them to see
a person.
I see somebody for 60 to 90minutes when I first on their

(27:54):
first visit.
There's just no way that themedical system is for set up to
see people like that.
Because the demand is too high.
There's, there's too much volumethere, right?
There's too much need.
You can't go into urgent careand see a doc for 60 minutes
because they have people,they're saving people's lives.
I think that there just needs tobe more direct access to these

(28:17):
types of clinics.
And there needs to be betterreimbursements for it, right?
If, if there's not, there needsto be reimbursements based off
of seeing people and whether itbe for time or, or what it.
There would have to be acomplete overhaul of the medical
system.
And I think I'm a little cynicalthere and I hope there's a
change.

(28:37):
I do.
I think it's going to be in myprofessional lifetime, probably
not, but I think in order for itto change, there needs to be a
priority into people overprofit, right, right now we
spend by far the most money outof all the top grossing GDP
countries.
By far the most money in healthcare and we have by far the

(29:00):
worst outcome and a bigdifference there is how we run
insurance and a privatization ofinsurances and all that stuff,
right?
But regardless, the outcomes inregards to health, health like
lifespan expectancy and all thatstuff that measures outcomes of
health.
Well, by far the worst, but wespend the most up there, right?

(29:24):
So it's, it's, it's reallytough.
And I think, and I think ifwe're going to be really
critical of ourselves, it's whenwe're really good at a lot of
stuff, we're just not reallygood at, at helping people.
with preventative health andhelping people who have been
dealing with stuff for a longperiod of time and preventing

(29:44):
people from chronic illnessesand musculoskeletal disorders.
And outside of that, we're greatat saving people's lives.
And I'm grateful for that.
So it's

Coach U (29:54):
all the preventative stuff, right?
Could we, could we argue that,as you were talking about
earlier, consistent movement isgonna improve health.
And not just like training inthe gym, but, you know, movement
in general, taking care of thosefive factors you talked about
earlier, you know, as a trainer,as a coach, I try my hardest to
inform people on ways that theycan take care of themselves.

(30:15):
And I do think that Sometimes itgoes over their head and I
don't, not because of theexplanation, but because they're
already dealing with so muchother stuff in life.
And the reality is making thosechanges is not simple.
It's not easy.
Everyone talks about it beingsimple and easy.
Stop.
Okay.
Some things can be, and yes, itis a discipline thing.
I think to an extent, but I alsothink it's a life thing and it's
a life changing thing.

(30:36):
It's a habitual thing that canover time change.
And I think that's where I couldargue trainers and coaches,
chiropractors, physicaltherapists, everyone in the
health, field who see patientsand see clients, we can take
part in this together by saying,Hey, I know, I know what's going
on in life.
Let's, let's work on maybeshifting and getting you into

(30:58):
more of a habitual way to takecare of yourself to prevent
these things ahead of time.
I can, we can argue that becausethat would say, well, now I'm
not going to go to the doctorwhen I need to.
You know, because I'm already atthat point that I have to go.
It's like if there was a lifethreatening thing, or obviously
if there's, you know, God forbidsomething, you know, that you
can't control like a cancer,possibly a mental disorder, we

(31:20):
don't know those thingsnecessarily, but I do think that
being consistent in the messagesthat we're giving to our
patients and our clients aregoing to be so helpful.
And then building that, I wantto say, confidence and being
able to do that for themselves.
Because it's not easy to do, andI'm in, I'm in the freaking
world of it, you know what Imean?

(31:41):
Like, even I have issues with itsometimes, and that's just life.
That's just how life goessometimes.

Donald Mull (31:47):
Oh, man.
That, I mean, it's beautifully,you said it beautifully, right?
I mean, confidence is acornerstone of performance.
If we, if...
And if that person doesn't havethis is why I prioritize I
don't, I don't have like atemplated stuff exam that I do
with every single person.
However, I have a checkmark ofwhat we talked about what I do

(32:09):
with every person, and one ofthem is create a positive
experience with movement,because confidence is a
cornerstone of performance.
Right.
And if that person doesn't havethe confidence to do those
things, then, and to bephysically active, then it
doesn't matter what.
exercise routine I give them,like they're not, they're not

(32:30):
confident to do it, right?
You can write the best programin the world, but it doesn't
matter if they don't do it.
I think we're in the front lineof defense, right?
If, if we're going to be realstrength coaches, and personal
trainers, even, even more sobecause you guys see people that
want, that want to be healthyit's on our shoulders to create

(32:51):
that positive experience, Ithink there's a lot of barriers
in fitness where it's likeconsumers think that everything
needs to be perfect.
I need to hit all these numberslike I'm a bodybuilder in order
to be healthy, right?
There's not a lot of peoplepreaching to people that just 30
minutes of huffing and puffing aday or just going on a walk,

(33:14):
right?
Meeting people where they're at.
And I think that's the biggestthing.
If we can meet, if we can meetpeople where they're at and
create a, an achievable planthat creates tangible hope.
Then, then we're on to somethingthen we can, okay, then maybe we
can leverage this walk that getsyou outside, that gets you away
from the stressors, that helpsyou recover, right?

(33:36):
Because now you're away from theemails, you're away from all the
stuff that's providing all thisstress and, and, and giving you
this vicious cycle, which iscausing all to be a portion of
the cause of all the stuff thatyou're going through.
Now we're on to something,right?
And that's a part of it.
It's easier than people think.
And I think.
We've seen this.

(33:57):
The people that know the WorldHealth Organization guidelines
for physical activity, and Ikeep, I keep referencing this,
not because it's a perfectnumber, it's just a reasonable,
achievable number that we see adrop in chronic illnesses as a
result of those who adhere toit, right?
And those who know them, aremuch more likely to adhere to

(34:20):
them, but how many cliniciansknow that I don't know the
number off the top of my head,but it's not very high.
And if they don't know it,they're not telling it to
people, right?
So, and then we know also thatthose who adhere to the World
Health Organization guidelinesare 2 times less likely to

(34:41):
report pain of any kind.
That one is, that one's done byMichael Ray and Paulie.
He's a professor now inVirginia, but I could send you
that one that last one aboutpain.
It's a lot easier to getsomebody to be physically active
than to tell them to quitsmoking if they're smoking we
have numbers to prove that.

(35:01):
But if we don't know the, the,the basics.
As clinicians, then how are weexpecting our society as a whole
to become more active, right?
How do we expect that 16 percentof people who actually adhere to
the number to grow?

(35:26):
Until we do that, I think, Ithink we're going to be, it's
going to be a slow grow and thisis why that's my North star.
If I can get somebody to adhereto those, that's, that's, that's
phenomenal outside of that,everything else is
individualized.

Coach U (35:41):
I do think education,, is really important and it
doesn't have to be, you don'thave to know all sorts of
anatomy and all sorts ofexercises.
I think it is an intimidatingthing.
It's something that I've beenreally passionate about when it
is at like entry level stuff forpeople to work on at the gym,
just to take care of themselvesname at the gym.
But like you said, go for awalk.
And I think it is our job to,to, to tell these, to tell

(36:05):
people these things, because ifpeople don't know, they're going
to be more intimidated becausepeople walk into a gym some
people that are in the gym arejust in crazy good shape, right?
But we also don't know thatperson's reality.
And I think people need tounderstand that too, that first
of all, that person's probablybeen working at this for years.
Secondly, they may have waydifferent goals and they

(36:29):
probably have a completelydifferent anatomy and physiology
than you do.
And like you said earlier, beingable to tailor it to yourself
and meet yourself where you are.
It is so important., I havefriends who are in the training
world.
I have friends who are in yourworld and you know, all in the
health world.
But I also have friends andfamily who Don't do any of this

(36:50):
stuff.
I always recommend people workwith a professional, you know,
get help at least for two, threemonths, get, get a rhythm down,
get something to get you into aroutine.
Because I think that is moreimportant than figuring out what
the best exercise is for you.
I think you need to figure outthe routine of making it happen.
And as you pointed out earlier,expect the ups and downs,

(37:12):
there's going to be weeks thatyou're going to be just.
You have so much energy, you'rein a good mood and then the next
week, Hey, you know somethinghappened, you lost a sale.
It meant you're not getting asmuch commission, whatever the
case may be, life factors willhappen.
And understanding that theconsistency is the number one
thing, finding your routine.
And then also something thatmakes you freaking happy.

(37:35):
Do something that makes youfreaking happy, man.
Like if it means going andplaying badminton or throwing a
tennis ball against the wall, Itaught one of my clients I gave
my client three tennis balls andI was just like.
Go, go outside and throw itagainst the wall and just try to
catch it in the opposite hand.
Just step with, you know, thatdoesn't, like, try to block it.
Don't let it go past you.

(37:56):
I don't need any objectiveoutside of that.
Just go throw a ball against thewall.
She's a writer, and so gettingher away, as you said earlier,
away from the, the thoughts,the, the emails, the phone,
anything that just gets youmoving, get the blood flowing.
That in itself is such a healthything.
If your main objective is not tolose weight and not to, build

(38:17):
muscle like a bodybuilder andyou're not trying to run for a
marathon, you're just trying tobe someone who's a healthy
person for yourself and yourlife and your lifestyle.
Find out how to have fun.
Find out how to make that partof your routine.
And she loved it.
I remember coming back the nextweek and she was like, I go out
here all the time now.
Like she's like two, three timesa day.

(38:38):
She'll go out there and you canimagine like that's probably
more work than she was doing.
That alone is a different styleof movement that gets you in a
flow in a different way.
And also builds a littleconfidence too, because she's
not an athletic person.
So you can imagine like beingable to accomplish something
that you're not, I'm going tosay good at, quote unquote good
at, in comparison, whatever, toother people, but it's not

(39:01):
something you're doing on anormal daily basis.
And so being able to accomplishsomething like that, I think is
so cool and it's key to buildingthat healthy relationship with
health, it's a really simplething.
Here's some tennis balls, gothrow it against the wall, let
it bounce if you want, try toblock it.
It's, it's the simplest things.
It was our objective to get herheart rate to skyrocket and work
on hit and work on all these,you know, different kinds of

(39:23):
conditioning tools, no, no, itwas to get her to move and to
get her brain off of what workshe was doing.
That's it.
Super simple.

Donald Mull (39:31):
There's a positive relationship with physical
activity outside of the stuffthat she would normally do.
So not only is she expandingher, her broadband with, if you
will of being physicallycapable, but she does it.
Yeah.
And I think that catapults forpositive experiences and

(39:54):
positive health performances inthe future.
And and I think that's importantfor those in pain too.
And I think that, that sometimesit's an example of gamifying
things, right?
And and, and, and making it fun,right?
If somebody can have a positiveexperience with doing a squat.
In different ways when they hadankle pain before and and we can

(40:17):
get them moving around andactually feel like they're
working out their legs withouteven needing to squat and they
had a good positive time.
Perfect.
That's, that's fantastic.
Outside of let's get an MRI andsee what tendon is, is quote
unquote abnormal, right?
Because again, we're not thisbag of bones and tendons and,

(40:38):
and ligaments, right?
Right.
We're beyond that.
We're a living, breathing,understanding creatures that
it's more complex than that.
And that complexity bringsoptionality and for most, for
the most part, most, I can'treally think of very many
conditions musculoskeletallythat, that need, a very precise,
treatment.

(40:59):
For a precise diagnosis, and Ithink if you look at it that
way, then you start to realize,Oh, is this MRI necessary?
Is this now we have to defer tothe context and make sure that
you rule things out, but it'smost often a a very specific

(41:22):
quote unquote diagnosis andspecific quote unquote treatment
isn't really necessary.

Coach U (41:30):
What I want people to understand too about our
conversation, specifically thistopic is we know that this is
not what we would do for anathlete, a high level athlete,
or someone who had bodybuildingaspirations.
Every single person's plan isgoing to look different I had my
volleyball kids with my, so thevolleyball team with the girls

(41:52):
basketball team.
And I had them do one of Craig'sfavorite, put a cone on your
back, let's bear crawl, see whocan knock off the cone.
I put them on teams, I had teamsof four all in the weight room,
and they had color cones, and,you know, who was the last team
standing.
They, they did their bearcrawls, they did it, but it
wasn't because I told them to,it was like, hey, this is the
objective, here's the game, gotry it.

(42:13):
And they had a great time.
And there was smiles, and therewas laughter.
You should be having a smile andhaving that healthy, happy
feeling about training.
So what, what do you, what doyou see when you work with your
patients and you gamify things?

Donald Mull (42:26):
I think it comes back to the context let's say I
have two different people comein.
Both have an MRI and the pictureis of their knee.
And it's a meniscus injury.
Let's use that because it's avery common condition.
Injury, a meniscus and cartilageinjury inside of the knee.

(42:46):
Both of them have that.
Am I going to treat this personthe same?
I don't know yet, now let's giveyou more information.
One is a 20 year old who is acollege student has a
scholarship that is academic anddoes quite well.

(43:09):
Stress levels are fairly low.
It's the middle of semester.
There's no tests coming up.
There's no issues there.
The other person is 32 yearsold, a single mom, and she has
two kids and works three jobs.
And,, doesn't have any trainingexperience.
Well, this person played a lotof, a lot of high school sports,
the original person, the 20 yearold played a lot of high school

(43:31):
sports and actually had apersonal trainer when they were
12 years old, all the way untilthey graduated.
Am I going to treat this personthe same?
The answer is no.
And I'm going to probably gamifyto earn this person's trust,
gamification for me is gainingtrust, right?
But if there is a lot of stress,stressors, fear, worry, concern,

(43:55):
that's going to be my mainpriority.
The soft stuff is going to be mymain priority.
And that's going to be my maingoal.
Now, if there is not a lot offear, worry, concern, and
they're open to doing a lot ofstuff and exploring.
Physical qualities become mymain concern.
So then I'm going to gamifybased on the physical qualities

(44:16):
I'm trying to develop.
Let's say quad strength, right?
Well, then I'm going to have abear crawl where I may be
holding a position where one legis covered and there's a time
test.
Okay.
Last week you had 25 seconds.
You think you can beat that?
Okay.
We're going to hold for thisamount of time because I'm just

(44:38):
trying to develop the quad.
Because there may have been adeficit.
So there's, it's reallydependent upon what I'm trying
to achieve, right?
I feel like gamificationfantastic.
But I think we have to look at,like, what you're trying to
achieve in the specific context.
Because this person, who has alot of experience and may be

(45:01):
very developed and understandingof what he, what soreness is,
and doesn't have three kids toworry about and put, put food on
the table for, and all the lifestuff, right?
I have to treat these peoplecompletely different.
And that gamification is goingto look massively different,
right, for, for each individualbased on what's going on with

(45:23):
them.
So my triage is, is this personconcerned?
Well, if they're concerned andworried and fearful,
gamification for me is going tobe geared toward making them
more comfortable and havingtrust in their body.
So it'll be minimal dose, veryminimal dose because I don't
want to create a fatigueresponse or a soreness response

(45:47):
because that's going to drivefear, worry, concern.
If that stuff isn't a worry andeverything's all good, what
physical attributes am I tryingto develop?
Is it a a specific muscle?
Is it a pattern of movement?
Is it conditioning?
Is it shocks and springs andbeing able to move and cover

(46:10):
ground and absorb forces andproduce force?
Then I can be like, okay, nowlet's create some games around
this and gamify it.
Because, because if we're justrandomly doing gamifications, it
becomes...
Pretty risky, in my opinion,because you can lose trust
because all these things aredeveloped to provide positive
results.

(46:31):
Positive results is like a trustbank.
And the second we lose trust, asyou know, I've learned this from
strength coaches.
The second we lose trust, thenwe can't get the buy in that we
need to get people to trust us.
And that's fair.
Right?
Because it's on us to be, it'son us to guide, right?

(46:53):
We're, we're, we are the onesthat have experience in this
world and they rely on ourexperience.
So I think there always has tobe a why behind the what.
But again, I do think there's somuch room for freedom, like we
were talking about earlier.
And at the end, like we got toprioritize the positive
experience and the positiverelationship with movement.
Right.
And if that, if that bucket isokay, then yeah, sure.

(47:15):
Let's get specific.
Let's get, let's see if that,that, that calcaneus is
everting.
Right.
I'm down to, I'm down to getinto the nitty gritty, but I
think that that's not priorityin most cases.
I

Coach U (47:32):
like that.
I like having the parameters onthere because it is what's cool
though is in each category.
There is a way With each ofthese two scenarios There's a
way to gamify and make itsomething that can build that
buy in and trust But you do haveto have the parameters you have
to have your your boundaries.
I want to go into returning toplay.
This is for everyone you knowgeneral population the people
who aren't really necessarilyfocused on Athletic play, people

(47:55):
who do play adult sports, right?
And softball, tennis there'stons.
Pickleball is a big thing now,you know, being being injured
and then being able to get backto that.
is difficult, you know, andstrength is typically a thing
that's like, Hey, this is whatyou need.
You need to be strong, but whenit comes to other things that

(48:16):
are aspects of the games,cutting and sprinting and
jumping and impact, like yousaid, you know, with the mom of
three versus the college studentwho played a lot of sports early
on and had a trainer, probablygonna treat em a little
differently.
So when it comes to thesethings, how do you prepare the

(48:36):
body to go to the next level soyou are getting back to play the
way that you were?
Yeah, I think there's

Donald Mull (48:44):
two big things.
It's, it's again, meetingsomebody where they're at,
understanding where they'recurrently at, and then starting
with the end in mind anddeconstructing from the goal.
If somebody's goal is a fieldsport or a really a team sport
of any kind, it's very similar,especially with like the lower
limb.
I think you need to be able tohave strength around the joint,,

(49:07):
that is affected,, on both sidesof the joint that is affected.
And, and I think you need to beable to produce force
vertically, horizontally.
And laterally, and be able tochange direction and I think
that there's many ways that youcan do that.
I don't I don't I personallydon't think that there's like a

(49:27):
right or wrong test.
I just think you need to cast awide enough net.
To get a good enoughunderstanding where the areas
are that that person needs todevelop.
This is normally like an acuteinjury, right?
Like they roll their ankle andthey're trying to get back and
like stuff like that.
So there's oftentimes less,psychological and sociological

(49:49):
barriers and obstacles, not thatthere wouldn't be, but, it's,
it's oftentimes like, Hey, Itore my hamstring or tore my ACL
or I tore in baseball.
I tore my UCL.
It's really just developingthose physical qualities.
If we cast a wide enough net, wehave a better understanding of
like what needs to be done.

(50:09):
Where I think the ball isdropped is this process when I
see patients that come to me forACL, not a lot of PT places are
looking at this stuff.
And if they do, they look at,they know the research that
after nine months, there's everymonth after nine months, there's
a decrease odds of retearing.
So like, there's a generalunderstanding there.
I always see, but I hardly eversee it.

(50:34):
a athlete come to me and saythat they've done quad strength
testing, hamstring strengthtesting, calf strength testing,
vertical jumping, horizontaljumping, lateral jumping, and
change, a change of direction.
I don't care how you measure it.
ACL research quite a bit.

(50:55):
So if you just PubMed somestuff, you can figure out how,
which ones that you want tocombine and do.
But you got to cast a wideenough net to understand which
of those do you need to work on.
And I think that is missing inthe current PT.
And I think that the lack ofstrength and conditioning

(51:16):
knowledge, I'll go back to fullcircle here is a lot of PTs
don't learn from strengthcoaches.
A lot of the stuff that I'mlearning about is from a
strength coach or multiplestrength coaches and PTs.
But there's a lot, there's a lotof crossbreeding there.
And I think, those, thosedeveloped, those, those
qualities need to be developed,especially in an ACL and a

(51:40):
hamstring, you got to be able tosprint, nothing in the weight
room is going to expose anathlete to the stressors they
get on the hamstring when theyplay more so than sprinting.
There's nothing that canreplicate that.
So, so knowing how to, to slowlyprogress somebody would

(52:02):
probably.
The best to learn from, frompeople that are working with the
fastest humans in the world andhow they progress with them.
Right.
And those are strength coaches.
Those aren't PTs.
if we don't expose the athletethat has a hamstring injury to
high speeds and sprinting, we'redoing them a disservice that's

(52:23):
that's as Dan Pfaft, likethat's, that's vaccination,
that's their vaccination to, todecrease the severity.
or risk of injuring thathamstring.
So if they, if they're in, inpractice, if you're just telling
them to return to practice,right?
And then we put a GPS on them ona soccer player and they're

(52:43):
hitting 15 miles an hour.
And in the games, they'reprobably going to hit 17, 18
miles an hour, right?
It's going to be faster.
So if they're not hitting.
17, 18, 19, 20 miles an hour ona regular basis.
They're not vaccinatingthemselves to reduce the risk of
injury.

(53:03):
Again, that's Dan Pfaft is, is aworld renowned strength coach
that has made athletes goldmedalists.
So I think learning from thoseis is massively important
because in sports, what do youdo?
You sprint and then you walk andyou recover and you then you

(53:25):
sprint.
So if you create this buffer, Ithink that's our job as both
PTs.
And if, and if the physicaltherapist don't have the means
of doing this in regards toequipment or space or whatever
it may be, I think if you'redoing it, that athlete a
disservice, if you don't have arelationship with the strength
coach that you trust.
Because that because this stuffto me, it's a no brainer, I

(53:48):
think, I think if you're lookingto get back to performance after
an injury, I think you need tohave these assessments that cast
a wide net that gives youconfidence because confidence is
a cornerstone of performance.
And if you, you really want tobe confident, you know, that you
check all these boxes thatyou're hitting 19 miles an hour.

(54:11):
Multiple times, well then you'llprobably be more likely to open
up and go get that ball rightand, and have confidence in it,
right?
Or if you have an a c l and,your right leg, that was, that
was the surgery leg is now asstrong or stronger than the, the
left one that didn't havesurgery in quad hamstringing,

(54:33):
vertical jump, horizontal jump,lateral jump.
You change the direction, you'dprobably be a lot more
confident.
Yeah, but I don't see it.
I don't see a lot of it inregards to suggestions from
surgeons nor physical therapyclinics.
And I'm hoping that thatchanges.
I think it starts with thehumility of, again, the health

(54:56):
and fitness industry.

Coach U (54:57):
It's full circle, like you said earlier.
It really is.
I mean, that's, that's the wholeidea, man.
Which is a good segue into, Igot two questions left for you,
man.
being able to keep up with thetrends in the PT, the physical
therapy world, the personaltraining world, the strength
coach world, like.
It just feels like we'rebombarded with stuff daily and
you go on Instagram and YouTubeand everyone's got something to

(55:20):
say.
They have an exercise or this toshow you for specific things.
How do you keep up?

Donald Mull (55:26):
I learned this term from, from Lee Taft is like,
have your board of directors,and have the people that you
really trust and the people thatelevate you.
I really do my best to be thestupidest person in the room.
Sometimes I don't have to tryvery hard, but but like, For me,
like my mentors and a big one isDr.

(55:47):
Craig Levenson, who we talkedabout earlier.
Dr.
Ryan Chow.
People that I can lean on andask questions.
And then not only them, I'mreally close with, but people
that I can ask questions andreach out to about specific
stuff.
Like if I wanted to help anexplosive athlete, I'm going to,
I'm going to reach out to FredDuncan.
If I want to, to help people,help somebody get.
Program change of direction, Ican reach out to at least half,

(56:09):
like having people that youtrust in certain areas that you
can reach out to, I think is abig one.
And then secondly, is I try touse my Twitter feed as, as like
a morning newspaper, somethingthat Craig, Craig kind of taught
me is I tried to do my best toat least read an abstract of an
article a day, if not like afull article a day.

(56:33):
And something that Fred haspushed me on doing is writing a
little bit more and trying toteach a little bit more.
So like taking that stuff inand, and, and just writing for
myself, not don't have a plan.
Like I'm not like, it's not forSEO.
It's not for this.
It's just.
Digesting a concept and writingit down to hopefully, for me to

(56:56):
better understand it, butsomebody else as well.

Coach U (56:58):
Yeah, writing is such a powerful tool, man.
I like the idea of Twitter asyour newspaper.
That's pretty cool.
I do enjoy learning in themorning.
This is just a random question.
Rapid fire here.
What's been the toughest thingfor you in your own health and
fitness journey to get down,

Donald Mull (57:15):
I'm currently trying to dunk right now and
it's It's been a year's journey.
I Went on this journey becauseit's something I I wanted to do
in my 30s that I haven't beenable to do in my 20s How tall
are you?
I'm like 5 11 Okay, I could Icould I could jump up and touch
10 foot 9 inches, but I havereally small hands And I have a

(57:38):
an issue with when thebasketball gets in my hand.
So I'm really close.
But it's I am that, that clientthat has a lot going on in life.
So I, it's, I, I'm not, I can'tjust dedicate my entire life to
it, but it's tough.
That's

Coach U (57:57):
fair.
You'll be there.
You're going to get, you keepthe consistency going, man.
You're going to get to thatdunk.
We'll be seeing you hopefullydoing a windmill soon.
Let me get up there floating.
I want to see it, man.
I want to see it.
I got your link tree here.
I'm going to make sure that thatis put into the show notes.
is there anything that you havegoing on that you want to share
with folks or just let them knowwhat you're working on and what

(58:17):
you offer?

Donald Mull (58:19):
Nothing in particular, man.
Just try to try to keep someinformation current on on our,
our Instagram.
So you can check that out.
And our YouTube, you can checkthat out.
And and also, too, if you wantto just personally reach out to
me, you always can.
My email, like [e-mail].
That's my personal email if youguys, anybody has any questions?
I'm game.

Coach U (58:38):
Yeah, Donald, definitely man, you, you, you
hooked me up with,, some greatinformation and you're
definitely very helpful.
We covered a lot today.
I really appreciate your timeand your knowledge.
Hope you enjoy yourself, man.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday on the coach U podcast,

Donald Mull (58:51):
man.
Thank you so much.
Thank you everybody forlistening.
I, I'm humbled, grateful, andcan't thank you enough.
Appreciate you, man.

Coach U (59:00):
We'll talk soon, though.
Thanks, brother.

Donald Mull (59:02):
All right, brother.
Have a good day.