June 16, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode of the Coach U Podcast, Coach U sits down with Seamus Sullivan—Performance Health Coach, co-host of The Macro Perspective, and leader at Cenegenics Beverly Hills. Together, they dive deep into what optimal health really means and how to simplify your wellness journey.
💡 What You'll Learn:
What biomarkers are and why blood panels matter
How to actually use your Oura Ring, Garmin, or Apple Watch for better training
The importance of muscle mass and VO2 max as you age
How to track progress without obsessing over numbers
Why recovery is more than rest—and how to make it work for U
📈 Whether you're just getting started or already deep in your training journey, there’s something here to help U push the needle forward—physically, mentally, and emotionally.
00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview
02:27 Meet Seamus Sullivan - Performance Health Coach
03:57 Understanding Cenegenics and Precision Medicine
05:38 Benefits of Holistic Healthcare
08:01 Biomarkers and Lab Testing
09:38 Importance of Hormone Balance
13:36 VO2 Max and Cardiovascular Health
16:00 Starting Your Fitness Journey
27:18 Recovery and Lifestyle Balance
36:39 Understanding HRV (Heart Rate Variability)
41:09 Identity Shifts and Personal Growth
Seamus Sullivan Contact Info:
- Instagram: Seamus Matthew Sullivan -> https://www.instagram.com/seamusmatthewsullivan/
- Podcast: The Macro Perspective --> https://www.instagram.com/themacropod/
- Cenegenics Beverly Hills: For longevity and healthspan support, contact the Cenegenics Beverly Hills flagship --> https://cenegenics.com/beverly-hills/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Coach U (00:03):
Hey everybody.
This is the Coach U Podcast, andI'm your host, coach you.
This podcast is about beingcurious, learning from others,
and using what we've learned toevolve every single day.
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Coach U Podcast.
(00:23):
Today's episode, we are talkingto Seamus Sullivan.
What you can expect from thisepisode is a conversation about
optimal health and exactly whatit is.
So Seamus has a lot ofcertifications.
He's very intelligent, and heunderstands the science of what
goes into training.
So we talk about what thebenefits are from tracking your
data.
To understanding what'simportant and what's not so
(00:45):
important.
If you have an ora ring, if youhave a Garmin, if you have an
Apple watch, whatever you use.
These are things that are gonnagive you ideas and we want to
learn how to use them and how wecan best utilize them, We're
also gonna cover things likewhat are biomarkers?
Why do we do blood panels?
vO two max.
We've heard it a lot.
It's a hot term, what does itmean to you and how can you
improve it?
Why are these numbers soimportant for us to understand
(01:07):
for our own health and also forour future family and their
health Overall, what I hope youget from this episode is that
you can do something to push theneedle forward to help yourself
out.
Health is really big.
It's a vast topic, especiallywhen it comes to training and
going to the gym and gettingyour right diet and all of these
things that you have to thinkabout when it comes to training.
But in all reality, we makethings way more complex than
(01:30):
they need to be.
We need to simplify this and weneed to find what works for you.
So whatever it is to push thatneedle forward just a little
bit, just a little bit at atime, because it's not gonna all
happen overnight.
Even for trainers who areexperienced, I've had my own
bouts of it.
I've gone through it for months.
Almost a year at times.
Injuries can come into play,depression comes into play.
These are real life things thatwe don't think about and need to
(01:51):
be talked about, especially whenit comes to training and
understanding your body, yourprocess, and where you are and
where you're trying to get to.
So make sure you're walking awaywith one thing that you can
focus on to help push the needleforward to help you live a
healthier, longer, and funner.
Yes, I said funner life.
If you want to hear moreconversations like this, get
(02:12):
video tips, exercise movements,and other things that are gonna
help you explore differentrealms of health and wellness,
make sure to hit that subscribebutton.
All right, everybody.
Here's my conversation withSeamus Sullivan.
Seamus, thank you so much forjoining us, man.
Seamus Sullivan (02:30):
Thank you so much, honored and thank you for
the privilege of having me onthe podcast today.
Coach U (02:34):
Let's dive in to learn about who you are.
and then I want to know what youdo, where you work, and the
clientele and the population youwork with.
Seamus Sullivan (02:43):
I appreciate, a platform to spread the message
of what I wanted to do.
I'm a performance health coach.
My background's in exercisescience multiple nutrition
certifications and strength andconditioning coach, CSCS, and I
am also board certified inhealth and wellness.
Truly my mission on this planetis to serve people in their
health and wellness and optimizetheir health.
Right now my day-to-day work, Iwork and run the flagship of the
(03:04):
Cenegenics in Beverly Hills.
We work in longevity,healthspan, lifespan, brains,
span, all these things,optimizing all those.
Outside of my work, I still dosome online performance and
nutrition coaching as well.
Give free content out in termsof my own podcast called The
Macro Perspective, which you'vebeen an esteemed guest on where
me and my co-host shout out toMarcos.
Talk about health and wellnesstopics, have amazing guests on
(03:25):
such as yourself, bringing innuance perspectives The rest of
the population is pretty privyto, and we wanna keep that
conversation moving forward.
Part of my conversation today isbringing more awareness on some
of the things that we wanna talkabout and giving nuance to it,
examples and helping movewhoever listens here today.
Make a decision about theirhealth to get a little bit
better.
I.
Coach U (03:45):
Love it, man.
Definitely.
Check out the podcast after thisepisode.
You guys like what you listen tohere.
You're gonna love what you guyshear on their podcast as well.
So check it out after we finishup our episode here.
Tell me what you guys do atCenegenics over.
A, the span of a time with aclient from they walk in and
then what's the plan for themongoing.
Seamus Sullivan (04:04):
That's a great question.
Genics is overall encompassing,precision medicine plan,
executive wellness plan if youthink about it.
An extensive amount of.
Diagnostic data on them fromtheir labs before they even come
in.
We look at their labs, we lookat data from their brain health.
We utilize EEG testing on theirbrain.
So I get to look at brains allthe time.
You have for you performancemetrics around power vertical
(04:26):
jump, things this at correlateto longevity and health span
grip strength, balance.
Exercise VO2.
We look at DEXA scans.
We look at a bunch of thingsthat are correlative to overall
looking at their health span andlifespan.
And we test those and we spend agood amount of time with the
person looking at all thosediagnostics and, collaborate
with them.
So I'm the performance healthcoach.
(04:46):
We look at the exercise andnutritional lifestyle
components.
And then the physician looks atmore of the, nutraceutical,
pharmacological and me, moremedical interventions that are
needed to optimize health andwellness and, we spent a lot of
time with our patients asopposed to your basic healthcare
system right now.
You spend eight to 15 minuteswith a doc and they're like,
Hey, you got this, take thispill and leave.
(05:07):
I was talking with someprospective patients today and,
you know what makes you guys alot different?
And what we love about it is, wewent through all the testing,
the labs, the genetics, and wewere able to pinpoint.
Things from our lifestyle andexhaustive lifestyle, the
exercise and nutrition, asopposed to doing a drug deal
with the physician and walkingoutta that hospital.
Going what I'm gonna take thesefor the rest of my life.
(05:27):
No, I think what Genics does agreat job of is holistically
looking at the person and beingvery integrative.
We integrate everything to makesure that they're getting the
best care across the board.
Coach U (05:41):
It's interesting too, talking about the medical field
and I'm not gonna say why one'sbetter than the other
necessarily.
I don't need to get into that.
But I do want to ask you whatyou see the benefit of going
through that style of ahealthcare routine versus what
is traditional right now?
Seamus Sullivan (05:57):
that's a really great question.
What we look at a lot of folksthink about is lifespan, and
that's how long you live.
What Cenegenics motto is agegracefully.
We're not necessarily thosefolks that are Hey, let's live
to forever.
What we want you to do is wewant you to age gracefully.
So let's just say you get to ahundred years old.
When you get to a hundred, howdoes that a hundred years old
look do you have your physicalcomponents?
(06:19):
Do you have your.
Health span, you have your brainspan.
Can you get to that a hundredyears and have all the physical
things you'd like still, theautonomy you're looking for and
have your wits about you.
And I think what our programdelivers and really helps with
our patient base is we look ateverything and we exhaust all
that testing, and we make surethat you're not in categories
(06:41):
that are outside of a diseasestate.
Or normal, we really try to pushyou to higher states of testing
and we.
Ask and collaborate with you topush you to these higher levels
because you think about this asan investment account.
Yes, you can go to your bank,you can make withdrawals and
deposits, but an investmentaccount, you accur a lot of
interest.
You put a lot there and you knowthat investment account can get
(07:03):
so big and you might lose alittle here and there, but
you're not totally upset by itbecause you've accrued so much
return on interest for yourself,whether that be in your
exercise, your nutrition, yourlifestyle, that when you get to
a hundred years old, compared tosomeone else that didn't decide
to be on a program this ordidn't really care about their
(07:23):
health and wellness at thatdeeper level, they're gonna get
to that age, as opposed toliving well.
Coach U (07:30):
Yeah I went to a seminar a few months back and
that was one of the.
Big takeaways was, yes,longevity in life is happening,
we're living longer, but whatare those quality of years like?
And I love that you guys attackthat because it's so true.
It's what's the point of living?
If I'm gonna be in pain havingto take medication, I have to be
on all these different kinds ofroutines and regimens, and some
people are gonna have to gothrough these things.
(07:51):
It's just inevitable in life.
No matter how much health you,how good your health is.
It is one of those things thatwe can think about.
So it's gotta be those twocomponents together.
Seamus Sullivan (08:00):
Yeah.
Coach U (08:01):
what are the biggest numbers, the biggest biomarkers
that you guys are looking at?
And let's even clear up what arebiomarkers and what are the big
things that people probablyshould be looking for, either
when they're going to the doctoror seeing you guys?
Seamus Sullivan (08:15):
Biomarkers, basic component of looking at
your labs, what componentswhether it be a chem screen,
your home panel, your lipidpanel, things like this.
Those are basic biomarkers thatyou're getting.
We look at over a hundred plusbiomarkers when it comes to our
lab testing.
A chem screen is important,which looks at your basic, red
blood cell to white blood cellcount to urine to creatinine, to
(08:35):
all these different things.
But on top of that, having alipid profile, having your
hormone profile, having yourthyroid looked at having all
these different components belooked at so that you can help
optimize them.
And it's important, when youhave those and when you work
with a physician to optimizethem, and we can do a lot of
those things for you and I andfor men and women.
And we're seeing a lot moredata, especially with women too,
(08:57):
to optimize these things becausewhether that's protective of
hormones in their older ages asthey age well.
Also protective of other diseasestates that are more privy for
women.
For example, osteopenia,osteoporosis which is bone
breaking and things like this.
When we get to look at thehormones and look at that, we
have a better chance ofmeasuring.
Once it's measured, we canmanage it a little bit better
(09:18):
with exercise and nutrition,lifestyle and even
pharmacological interventions asdeemed and collaborated with the
doctor and a physician.
Coach U (09:26):
Hormones are a really big deal, and I don't think we
talk about them enough.
I don't understand, and I won'tpretend to understand them in
depth, but I did study them inschool and I understand on the
basic level what they are, butwhy?
Seamus Sullivan (09:37):
Yeah.
Coach U (09:38):
It's the endocrine system.
Why is that system and ourhormone balance so important and
what is hormone balance?
Seamus Sullivan (09:46):
this is a great question.
I'm not trying to get outta mydepth here either.
Hormone balance is.
I would say it's very an end ofone.
It's very specific to theperson, and when you come
through a cenegenics model aswell, we really work with you
to.
Optimize where you're at.
We don't try to put you againstthe playing field.
(10:06):
As a general, and I'm puttingquote unquote here, general
recommendations, and I'll usetestosterone for example.
I think this is an easy one tomake an example of.
Two 70 to 800 nanograms fordeciliter basically is you're
good.
But if you're 22 years old andyou're at two 80, technically
you're good, but you're 22 yearsold.
Coach U (10:26):
Yeah, say anywhere 22 to 27 is the prime.
Seamus Sullivan (10:29):
Yeah.
And you're at the lowest end.
You have to think about that.
Why is that?
And you have to look at thisperson's lifestyle, their
nutrition, their exercise, theirsleep if they're doing any
behaviors that's stopping themfrom producing the hormone that
they should probably beproducing.
And if it's clinically indicatedthat they, need to change
something.
When you think of hormonebalance, is it what does that
mean as a balance as to how it'shelping with your life?
(10:51):
For, again, back totestosterone, is it helping with
muscle mass?
Is it helping with energy?
Is it helping with libido?
Is it helping with mood?
hormone regulation, and alsothis is for women too.
It's important when we regulateto balance that we can have.
The life that we're looking for,the effectiveness of life that
we're looking for.
Whether that be, again thespring in our step the mood, the
(11:12):
energy, the focus and thenhelping us out.
So that's why when we look atthose numbers, when we look at
hormones, when we look at thesystem, the endocrine system,
and all these things, we.
Again, make that very tailoredto the person and want them to
be in a place, not just balance,but also optimize too, so that
they can, live essentially thebest version of themselves.
Coach U (11:34):
Yeah.
And I think that's at the basisof helping clients.
What would you say in workingwith all the patients clients,
patients, whoever you call them,what is the common factor?
What do you see the most when itcomes to the shift that they
see?
Is it, Hey, I saw these numbersand I really need to improve
them.
Is it, Hey, I really wanted tolose five pounds and this is
helping me do it.
Like what, where do you see theshift happen in that kind of the
(11:57):
things start to click andthey're like, this makes sense.
I need, I can make thesechanges.
Seamus Sullivan (12:00):
Honestly, it's a combination of a bunch of
things.
I think, when you're coming toan age group that Genics really
serves well, it's probably inthat 40 plus category, 55 plus
category men and women.
These men and women are lookingfor all of.
That right?
They're not looking for, Hey, Iwant my weight to be in a
certain place.
I don't wanna be dealing withpain as much as I'm dealing
with, whether it be frominflammation or injuries.
(12:23):
From what hearing from them andexhaustive, coaching sessions,
when they get to that age,everything is turned on.
They feel everything.
They wake up the next day,they're feeling how that sleep
messed them up their back, theirneck as opposed to years before.
And their energy's off andthey're so sensitive to it now.
Or they ate something and it's Iused to eat this thing and now.
(12:44):
It's really messing with me.
All these components are reallyturning on and they're so
sensitive to it.
And at that age, they are sofaced with the consequences of
our human frailty
Coach U (12:56):
What have you seen being the most important thing
for older adults?
Because.
The pain's gonna be there.
You are growing older, as yousaid, phase.
I love that because there'sdifferent phases of training as
well, right?
We're not, I'm not training thesame way now that I was training
when I was playing collegefootball.
It's not the same.
Nor is my body I find the otherthings that I really love to do,
(13:16):
and I also still obviouslystrength train, but what have
you seen in that older clienteleto be that the thing that makes
them go, wow, this is.
I see how this is helping menow, or whether it be
cardiovascular work, whether itbe doing more strength training
work, more flexibility work.
How is that formulated?
Have you seen that shape up?
Seamus Sullivan (13:36):
When you think of training and you think of
these phases and all thesethings, the biggest things I've
really seen that havecategorically been some of the
most amazing things, and I'll gointo them, is muscle mass.
And VO2 max.
And to break that down, that'syour cardiovascular efficiency,
how well you utilize oxygen.
But lemme start with muscle massfirst.
(13:56):
We utilize something called theDEXA scan, dual X-ray imaging.
We scan you.
When we look at those componentsand look at that tissue, muscle
has been such a.
Big component of how well youlive.
It really is how much autonomyyou could have as you age, doing
functional movements, having thestrength to do that and having
(14:18):
just the ability and the fervorto move, muscle mass now.
Again, going back to yourfootball days, I don't think you
need to train like that, butsomebody needs to incorporate
resistance training or weighttraining or weightbearing
exercises in a way that issupportive of their muscle mass.
At least maintaining orincreasing as they age.
Joint and connective tissuesupport and that's safe.
(14:39):
Good technique.
Having that in a schedule thatis supportive of that person is
gonna be great.
Plus lots of new research onmuscle mass being an amazing
glucose disposal sink, quoteunquote, you can utilize
carbohydrates better.
It's better fueling strategiesthere.
And it's really good for overallhealth.
So muscle mass there.
(14:59):
As we age standpoint, not onlywe thinking about weightbearing
exercise, how can we move inspace?
You move back and forth and youdodge and you zig and you zagged
and all that.
But in the sport of life, westill have moments like that.
And weightbearing exercises, ifyou incorporate some of these
functional things, what I'mthinking of is most injuries
don't happen because you want togo for a run, what happened was
(15:20):
you have to break and that'swhere you get hurt, and that's
weightbearing exercise.
That's what we call theeccentric loading or the slow
loading of a movement.
And it's not going up the stairsthat's gonna hurt you, it's
going down the stairs andfalling down.
That's gonna hurt you.
So we wanna make sure we can.
Manage our weight, have ourbalance, have our strength
beneath us.
That's important.
That's why muscle mass is thereand again, very much important
(15:41):
for a lot more scientific stuff,but the basics.
Having some strength, havingsome functional movement
capacity is gonna be superhelpful.
Someone
Coach U (15:49):
to get into it and get themselves off the couch and
start into a routine.
How do you suggest someonestarts?
What are some minimums theyshould be hitting every week,
let's say I.
Seamus Sullivan (16:01):
Honestly, it depends on the person.
It really does.
First and foremost you couldhave the right answer, but if
they're not gonna come get it,
Coach U (16:07):
Yeah.
Seamus Sullivan (16:08):
they're not gonna do it.
So you gotta find something thatthey're willing to at least
enjoy work with.
And I always say work withsomeone like coach U here who's
a professional that can checkout your form and really be
there and coach you throughsessions and help you out.
I think that's always great,support technique, things like
this.
But on a minimum, there's somescience that says minimum
effective dose minimum effectivevolume training.
(16:30):
These landmarks a few sets perweek.
I think it was like betweenseven and 20 sets or something
like that on muscles likecompound movements.
You're, you're gettingeverything stimulated and you're
done.
And if, I think if I was lookingat a full training program that
was within 30 to 45 minutes, twoto three days of resistance
training, if it were full body,you get everything you're in,
you're out of the gym or you'rein, you're out of your home gym
(16:51):
or in and out of your, littlehome gym center.
That's the commitment, that'snot really asking for much,
Coach U (16:56):
all.
It's tough, because our, thetraining world is filled with
modalities, different theoriesideas of how things should look
people selling things left andright.
So it's tough for people to siftthrough everything, having those
basic, easy standards to hit, Ithink it really makes it easy
for people to say, Hey, I cango, I can go do this.
And if you put it down on paper,it's not that much time and it's
(17:19):
building.
Your life forever.
And you're building like we astaking it back to what you said
earlier, taking it back to thatability to have a more
fulfilled, productive, pain-freelife if we're gonna live longer
too, so really filling it andmaking those years, something
that we can really enjoy.
Seamus Sullivan (17:38):
100%.
And I think, when it comes tominimum effective dose, I wanna
go back to the thing ofenjoyment.
I think if you can enjoy theprocess, you're more willing and
likely to stick with it.
Just go to the thing that worksfor you, because if you're gonna
find a form of movement trainingand you feel that you're
resistant to it and you're justnot liking it, who's gonna show
(17:59):
up?
For that, so make sure it'senjoyable.
The next point I wanted to getinto was VO2.
I think that's really important.
So there's a lot of science onthis and there's a lot of
speakers about VO2, but VO2 max,again back to the basics here,
is how much oxygen you canutilize at maximum exercise.
And if you go from a certainpercentile or a quintile you
(18:21):
basically increase your lifespanor.
Health span with life, three tofive, times, people that live
longer when they have this.
I wanna give a visual inpeople's minds, but think of
let's say zero to 50, andnumbered all the way up.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, all the way to50.
And on that left side of thatgraph, it's zero to 50 going up.
Then on the right side of it,you have these different layers
(18:43):
of movement.
So you know, around three VO2 issleeping, hanging out, sitting
down five, eight, maybe walkingaround a little bit, 10 to 15
laundry, little gardening, alittle squatting up and down,
sitting up and down.
Getting up to 15 and 20 isyou're running up the stairs.
So that's a quick visual for theperson to understand.
Daily activities of daily livingis between five to 20 VO2.
(19:07):
So when we do your VO2 max test,which is a constant graded test
on a treadmill, on a bike, wehave a mask on you.
We're checking out your CO2,your VO2, all these things.
We're gonna push you as hard asyou can.
What's your max heart rate, maxbreathing, max respiratory rate.
All these things, we're gonnafind out a lot about your heart
your lungs your blood work, allthis stuff.
We push you to your max.
You get to your max.
Wherever you're at in life,let's say your max is 25.
(19:29):
I told you that activities ofdaily living are between eight
and 15, five and 15.
You running up the stairs is 20,so imagine that.
You're running up the stairs andyou're already gassed'cause
you're five points away fromyour max.
So what we'd like for you to dois bring that up, closer to that
50 or more.
50 plus truly is I to tellpeople 50 and my professor's
(19:52):
around 50 is where people thatare really well trained or pros.
Of in high endurance sports,pretty much start.
Coach U (19:59):
Yep.
Seamus Sullivan (19:59):
what we like to tell people is, look, if you can
get your cardiovascular systemup.
We're doing a really good job.
We're gonna move you into apercentile or quintile of
living.
You can live longer and livebetter, and you have more energy
to you.
Doing daily activities of livingaren't gonna fatigue you so
much.
Going up the stairs, doing somelaundry aren't gonna fatigue you
(20:20):
as much.
I.
This is what it means day today.
This is where you live in thiszone day to day.
And if your max is pretty closeto that zone, you're tapping
out.
But if your max is double,triple that you've got so much
to do in your day-to-dayactivities,
Coach U (20:33):
and something as simple as adding more walks and maybe
at a higher pace walk, becausethey don't have to be a runner
or a jog necessarily.
You can go on an incline, asmall incline treadmill, even
the.
You got some hills wherever youlive.
It doesn't have to be that big,but elevating that heart rate up
a little bit.
What are some tactics that youuse with your clients?
I.
Seamus Sullivan (20:51):
I'm gonna put a little caveat there too.
There's been some new studiestalking about only half the
population gets.
The stress from what we callzone two or brisk cardio, which
is if you were gonna go for ajog or run for an hour, you can
talk, but it's uncomfortable totalk.
But you can hold the pace for anhour or something that.
Only about half the amount ofpeople, get a stressed or VO2
(21:14):
adaptation from that.
I definitely recommend zone two.
On top of some higher intensitythresholds, what you said,
increasing that heart rate,trying to get it to that heart
rate max, right?
A quick calculation is two 20minus your age or you could look
at your Apple Watch or Fitbit orsomething that and whatever your
max has been, it knows you alittle bit better than me.
(21:35):
But you do that a few sessionsper week, you know you have high
intensity interval sessions.
There's been a few that's beenpopularized, the Norwegian four
by four, which is four minuteson, four minutes recovery.
The way we do it here atcenegenics is we bring you to
your max heart rate and then youget to that max heart rate, and
then you re, you hold it for 20seconds, so you hit that max
(21:55):
heart rate.
You don't touch it, you hold it.
That is brutal.
Coach U (21:59):
20 seconds might sound quick to a lot of people, but at
your max heart rate, you are,you have to think about every
little piece of energy you canhold onto for 20 seconds.
That's great you guys.
Mean.
Seamus Sullivan (22:10):
seconds.
Then we bring you down and thenyou rest about 90 seconds or
back to your heart rate recoveryzone.
And then you bring it back up tothat max heart rate.
You touch the max heart rate.
Then you hold it.
We do that for four rounds, andyou can do that a few times per
week.
But I'll tell you this, it isvery taxing on the nervous
system.
this is tough.
But it's because we're trulygetting you to your top end.
Now we don't live there and wedon't do workouts there all the
(22:31):
time.
We really gotta manage yourweekly volume because, what did
I say earlier, right?
You have to also.
Want you increase.
I would say the best though, myrecommendations personally is I
don't like to do those highintensity interval stuff with
impact type of training, sprintwork or running, because I want
you to focus on getting yourheart rate up and repetitive.
Some of the best ways Ipersonally like the air bike,
(22:52):
the assault bike, or theelliptical'cause inefficient.
Both the upper and the lowerbody, the heart is just pumping
away.
I like that.
I like the rower, I like theskier.
Non-impact stuff, because youcould put your phone down, look
at a heart rate monitor, andlock in as best as you can, as
opposed to running, rolling anankle or something.
Coach U (23:09):
And No I love it.
I think that's I'm way on boardtoo with the low impact for
interval training and when yousprint.
We're trying to work on my BOtwo Maxs.
I'm trying to work on my speedand
Seamus Sullivan (23:18):
Speed.
Yeah.
Coach U (23:19):
can.
And doing repeats is notnecessarily, and that's even
going back, I'm sure when youwrestled and football and
growing up playing sports in thenineties and the early two
thousands, it was still a littlemore old school in the sense of
punishment was the sprinting,punishment was the running.
Whereas now, coaching as long asI have now, it's no.
Sprinting is the gold.
That's the thing you get to do.
And you, it's probably the mostathletic and the most, the
(23:41):
biggest form of athleticexpression a human body can put
Seamus Sullivan (23:44):
100%.
It's funny you say that becausepeople did sprints before where
they're that's the punishment.
And then they're realizingexercise scientists, you're
actually running down yourathletes.
Coach U (23:53):
You mentioned Apple watches, Fitbits, all that
stuff.
I use the Garmin.
It's, it tells you the VO2.
What is that actually telling methough,
Seamus Sullivan (24:00):
I think they're getting a little bit better with
the VO2, but I still see about aup to over 8% error rate with
that meaning up or down.
Let's say I get someone on hereand they got a 50 I.
And then they could be 8% downor 8% higher.
I have a lot of runners that Iwork with and a lot of people I
work with.
And I do wanna let you know thatthe VO2 that I do is a slightly
variation.
We do it on a bike'cause it'ssafer, more repeatable as
(24:21):
opposed to a maximal VO two onthe.
Treadmill, most people we'reworking with are not conditioned
to run their maximum run, so wedo it on a bike.
Almost a 20% differentiator, butit's a good proxy.
I think the technology is great.
I think it gives you a number tolook at.
So what I tell people is, thisis how I look at it.
We're gonna do your VO2 today.
Whatever your VO2 on your Garinsays, or your Apple Watch says.
We'll also take that as well.
(24:42):
And then all we want it to do isfrom this test on, we want it to
trend up.
So we wanna make sure that yourtraining I is making sure that
guy is also training up too.
'cause most likely it'll trendup on hours.
And we test that and we've seenthat too.
So people will go through ourprotocols for three months, six
months, and then, it goes upslightly.
Also remember, too, VO2, part ofVO2 is there's a calculation.
(25:03):
Part of it is your weight.
So if you drop your body fat,for example, and you did the
same test right now, you dropped10 pounds of body fat right now.
Your VO2 got better because.
Part of that is divided by yourweight.
So you got better.
And if you lost 10 pounds offat, think about that.
All the veins and thecapillaries and all the blood
going through 10 extra pounds ofbody fat as opposed to not
needing to go through 10 poundsof non metabolically active
(25:26):
organ tissue.
It's super helpful.
Yeah, there's a weight componenttoo, so when people come back on
our program annually, what'scrazy is not only has our VO2
gotten better because they lostweight alone, but yes, it got
better because they weretracking it through their
wearables and also utilizingsome of the training protocols
we recommended on top of thezone two and the hit.
Coach U (25:45):
H how much should we pay attention to the numbers?
'cause it can be a littledaunting for people, right?
Where it's this is overwhelming.
Oh, I got this to think about.
I got 70 other things to thinkabout.
I got my kids, whatever.
People got life as well.
How do you handle that?
Seamus Sullivan (25:57):
That's a great question and that's what a coach
really does well for you is letyour mind get off of that.
That's what we do with yourannual program here at
cenegenix.
Or what we do with ourperformance health assessment is
we take all that data.
We handle it.
We have years and years ofphysicians and.
Performance health teams andwisdom.
There's a difference aboutknowledge as opposed to
experience and wisdom.
(26:17):
And when you can offset some ofthat data to somebody else, your
mind can relax.
At the end of the day, themetrics that matter are the ones
that you really want to measurethe most.
And for most people right now inour current.
Day and age we really care aboutis what does my weight look
like?
What does my body fat percentagelook like?
How good is my cardio what's mysleep look like?
(26:38):
Maybe a few metrics and try notto, get lost in it too much and
be emotionally involved in ittoo much.
It's a data point, you know whatI'm saying?
'Cause a lot of the folks I dealwith if they wanna lose weight,
they're so identified with thatweight that it's frustrating for
them to even say that with agrain of salt to say, Hey, let
us help you make some decisions.
(27:00):
We'll handle the data.
But if you were to look at data,it's really the ones you need to
measure the most.
And most people that I work withit's likely around, their
weight, body fat may be aroundsome food metrics, calories,
maybe around some sleep.
But try to keep it as simple aspossible, to get back to the
basics and go to bed by 9:00 PMCall it a day.
Coach U (27:18):
Man, that if that's not the best plan just to get to bed
by 9:00 PM that soundsfantastic.
It's funny, when you're a kid,you fight it and then you get
older, you're dude, I need it.
I need, so I get it, man.
As a health practitioner andsomeone who also lives a healthy
lifestyle.
An active lifestyle.
You partake in many differentevents.
(27:40):
Partaking in the hyrox you've,have you run marathons too, or
am I going crazy?
Seamus Sullivan (27:44):
I've run one and I'm running a half one day,
one week from this recording?
Coach U (27:47):
So you do that, you are active.
What are some of the principlesthat you live by?
Seamus Sullivan (27:52):
The data is great, but learning to listen to
yourself more and knowing whento pull back and knowing when to
push and knowing that takeswisdom though.
You will need some data atfirst, you really do.
For example, I was talking aboutthe absence of you do need to
learn how to track your weightsand sets.
You do need to learn how totrack your runs.
You do need to learn how totrack your macros or calories
(28:16):
because.
That level of trackability atsome point will help you create
a level of clarity in yourselfthat you'll be okay.
I know what this looks like dayin, day out so that when things
get on and off of the plan, Iknow how to zig and zag, but you
have to earn that.
And I've had to earn that rightthrough 20 plus years of trials
(28:36):
and tribulations from being anathlete in wrestling to
collegiate wrestling, to nowbeing more of a endurance
athlete and a weekend warriortype, and what I learned through
all that, was I.
Sometimes didn't listen to thenumbers and was too gung-ho and
wanted to get after it, alwayswanted to PR and all this and
relating it back to longevityand health span stuff.
(28:57):
You don't need to die on thathill.
As much as I do all thisoptimization this quantified
self tracking apps, sleeptrackers, all this stuff, at the
end of the day, I think.
need to create a level of wisdomwithin yourself and knowing when
you need to push and when youneed to.
So that's what I've learned.
And I've really leaned onrecovery more than pushing now,
(29:17):
and I've gotten a lot more outof it as opposed to, I made that
new pr, but I had an ankleinjury on top of it, to make
that PR happen, right?
It's learning the trade-offs andI think that takes a lot of
wisdom and it does take a littlebit of utilizing some of that
trackability.
For example, there's an app I'llshout'em out we have a
partnership with them.
On the macro perspective,hybrid, H-Y-B-R-D, their new app
(29:40):
came out this week and.
It was telling me I was overtraining, I got this plan that I
need to do.
And then four days of doing thisplan that I needed to stick to
Sunday, one Sunday I wassupposed to run nine miles.
I fell flat.
My nervous system was off.
Everything was I was irritated,I was irritable.
I was waking up grumpy, woke onthe wrong side of the bed and I
(30:01):
realized oh wow, as much as I'mlistening to myself, I do also
need to listen to this data too.
And tell me, Hey, you need tomanage that and you need to be a
little bit more adaptable, asopposed to, Hey, Seamus, you
have this plan here.
You're supposed to hit thesechecklists.
I've realized I don't need tohit that checklist anymore.
You get your minimum effectivedose.
You don't need to run the exactplan.
(30:22):
You need to learn how to callaudibles, especially as you age,
what were you looking for inthat training?
Oh, that training plan wasasking for me to get a little
faster, a little bit stronger, alittle bit more endured.
Did I need to do the exact planto make that happen?
No.
Maybe I needed this componentand then I can move on.
And I'll be honest with you,that was probably one of the
biggest things that I'velearned, and I keep learning and
(30:43):
relearning as I've gone deeperinto my athletic pursuits.
Coach U (30:46):
Having those tools, having the numbers, it's so
important.
Having the plan is important.
What I have learned to go off ofwhat you're saying is that out
as you have it, and your brainknows what sets are, how many
miles you need to run, how muchtime you need to put in here,
you know that.
At the same time, your body willtell you what it needs if you
(31:07):
can learn how to listen to it.
So in that moment, you said, theminimal effective dose, maybe
you had four sets of 15 that youhad to get done, but your body's
three sets of 12 is actuallyreally good today.
I don't need to go above thatand.
We get married to the idea thatit has to look this way.
It's very rigid in thinking, butyou're saying, we need to
audible, we need to be morefluid in how we're moving
(31:29):
through our programming, throughthe numbers that we're seeing.
Maybe our wearables are saying,Hey, you had a stressful period,
we should probably back off alittle bit.
You do need to push and,adaptation doesn't happen unless
there's intensity at the sametime.
Adaptation will diminish bigtime if there's no recovery.
I want you to talk a little bitmore about recovery because
(31:50):
it's, again, it's a big word.
It's HRV, VO2, it's all the,what do you define recovery as,
and how does somebody regulatethat?
Seamus Sullivan (32:00):
Recovery is any motor activity that will allow
the adaptation you're lookingfor without reaching into
overreaching or over training.
And what that means is.
Recovery doesn't flat out mean,Hey, veg out and watch TV all
day.
It may mean some activerecovery, it may mean some other
things, but recovery also tunesinto what you're already doing.
(32:24):
Yes, maybe a smarter trainingplan, the audible, but also some
key other life self factors.
Are you getting your nourishnourishment in your nutrition
and things that.
Most people don't think aboutthe recovery in that way because
they think.
Those are different segments,and that's what recovery is.
It's actually the whole thingyou're looking at.
And making sure that the food isin there, the calories are in
there, the nutrients are inthere, making sure the sleep and
(32:46):
the sleep quality is there.
But another part of it, thatmost people don't forget is
remember the rest of your lifeis stress, eustress and
distress.
It's still stress under the.
Umbrella of it, even if it'sgood stress.
Knowing your activities that youdo day to day Hey look, yeah,
I've got this long run today,but I also have multiple back to
back meetings, differentpersonalities.
(33:08):
Or I have a big project that Ineed to do.
I'm gonna go late night into.
Knowing that, that has also theathletics of life, there's a lot
of mental capacity there.
There's a lot.
So I think looking at that aswell and going oh wow.
The training isn't just off thefield anymore or out of the gym
or out of my run.
It's oh, I need to make surethat this training is good to
support the rest of my day.
So that's what I work withpeople is life, lifestyle.
(33:29):
Look at their calendars a lot,actually.
Now they're traveling, they'redoing this and it's oh, okay.
So we need to make sure that thetraining, the nutrition, and
then the lifestyle is indicativeof recovery because you can get
the quote unquote recoverybecause you went to go get a
massage or you did some, sauna,or you did some, cold plunge or
something like this, but therest of your life is stress the
(33:51):
F out.
And you're not managing thatstress appropriately.
You don't have any othereffective tools to manage that
stress.
You're not necessarily gettingto bed on time, you're not doing
these things.
So I think recovery is a bignebulous term.
And also at the same time, it isnebulous in that it's
overcompensating your wholelife, not just.
Workout, not workout, foam roll,not foam roll.
Stretch, not stretch.
(34:12):
It's it's the whole thing.
And I think you have to look atit bigger time.
Spans.
Coach U (34:15):
I love that.
No, I love that answer.
'cause it is vast and I thinkit's, again it's everything else
with weight loss, with musclegain, with improving your VO
two, very simple.
It's very simple.
And I think, you said, keepingit simple and keeping it basic
is gonna help you get to that,whatever next level you, you
want to, something you also saidabout recovery that I loved is
(34:38):
you need to be active.
And I don't think younecessarily need to be, going
and jogging all the time, orgetting on a bike and riding 10
miles.
But it's, I think you have tofind your recovery levels and
getting blood.
To me it's just blood flow.
Blood flow is
Seamus Sullivan (34:52):
That's what I
Coach U (34:53):
the best thing you can do for recovery.
Right.
Seamus Sullivan (34:55):
There's multiple ways.
Modalities of recovery, whetherit be passive or active.
On this active chart, is it selfmy fascial release, or is it a
walk, or is it a easy zone to,or is it this other thing, or
passive is massage, infrared,active passive, and it's a
matter of playing with all ofthose.
And some of those recoverythings are more peripheral
nervous system as opposed tocentral nervous system, right?
(35:18):
Central nervous system might bemeditation, you're trying to
calm yourself down innerly, buta peripheral nervous system is
like someone massaging you.
You're getting some soft tissuestuff, the peripheral stuff is
getting there, and that mightcalm you down too.
So I think it's a combination ofthat.
I don't know what the I don'tknow what the perfect, ratio is.
And I wouldn't know because it'sgonna be different for everyone.
For me, this week, I need a lotof body work.
(35:39):
My ankles, my calves, I'mgetting into this race next
week.
I need to be fresh.
My nervous system is not asfried centrally because my
workload's been good.
Everything's been okay.
I've been gonna sleep on time,things are that.
That's a quick example of it.
Coach U (35:50):
No, I love it because I think it.
People think it's one thing,it's one specific plan that you
follow.
This is how you recover this.
You said, a cold plunge or asauna or a meditation, or I
gotta stretch.
I got a foam roll.
It's all of these things areabsolutely tools that you can
use.
It's how do you use them?
When do you use them?
At what level are you usingthem?
(36:12):
It's, it can be confusing.
Even for me as a trainer you're,and I know you're busy, we're
all busy, right?
We all have a lot of things thatwe have going on.
Managing the ability to be ableto take a step back and say Hey,
I need to give myself a littlebit of love here.
I do want to talk a little bitabout HRV because it is a.
A hot term, if you will.
My watch tells me where I'm at.
(36:32):
I still don't know what itmeans.
So please enlighten us a littlebit on
Seamus Sullivan (36:36):
Yeah.
Coach U (36:37):
and, why do we care about it?
Seamus Sullivan (36:39):
So first off, I'm no HRV expert as well.
Some data scientists in exercisei've written about this and I've
read everything.
I could get my hands on it.
I believe HRV was primarilystudied with astronauts in
Russia and America 50 years ago.
But it was trying to get intothe sports performance space
because we were trying tocorrelate recovery as well.
And heart rate variability,that's what it is in
(36:59):
milliseconds in between eachheartbeat, what the quickness on
that was.
And a higher HRV correlatedwith, a higher vagal tone,
meaning Hey, you betteradaptation, better
recoverability.
And, what I've read too andheard as well is it's actually
just like your day-to-day, yourweek to week average for
yourself.
You don't necessarily need tomax out your HRV.
It's more like where does itrespond to as a posterior
(37:21):
baseline?
Did it go high?
Did it go low?
So if it's low, are you underrecovered or un training?
Or if it's high, it's you'regood.
You can go today.
You can do some hard stuff.
And there's a lot of wearableson that talk about watches.
Whoop is probably the big oneaura is probably a big one.
From my understanding too fromthese big exercise science
folks, that is actually just aderivative of a different
algorithmic.
Proprietary thing as opposed toa true HRV.
(37:43):
'cause a true HRV, you need aheart rate monitor to really
check that on the day to day.
Sounds more convenient, soundsmore realistic as opposed to
waking up and trying to figureout my pulse and my blood
pressure and all this stuff.
Have utilized a whoop an aura,and I think data for some reason
when you can see it.
You act on it, right?
Hey, your aura said you got abad sleep.
(38:03):
I gotta make sure I do my sleep.
But I've also seen people justbuy tech and literally have bad
sleep scores and they're notdoing anything about it.
So it's what's the point ofwearing that thing?
Don't you buy something tochange behavior?
So if it's not helping youchange behavior, what was the
point?
I think it's cool science.
I love the HRVI I nerd out aboutit, but at the end of the day,
if you're not changing yourbehavior based on any of it or
changing your training plan orall this, and for the people
(38:25):
that we're talking to anddealing with our day-to-day
cenegenics or my coaching, Idon't think they need to get
into this stuff.
even me, even though I doathletic stuff and all that,
because here's what's gonnahappen.
I got game day.
I'm still gonna show up gameday, whether I know my HRV or
not,
Coach U (38:39):
yep.
No, and it's also one of thosethings too.
You don't need to get involvedin that unless you're a
professional athlete and have ateam of people doing this for
you and can do it all for you,you don't really need it., Do
you have a tip for people on howto maybe not necessarily track
that, but to check in?
What are some things that theycan do to check in with
themselves?
What are things that you do?
Maybe you help your clients,'cause you also coach clients
(39:01):
online.
So what are some things andtactics that you have them?
Hey, let's keep you on pace.
I know you're not necessarilyhitting the numbers that you
want to, but you are moving theneedle forward.
Seamus Sullivan (39:10):
So that's a really good question.
I'll say first off, a quickcheck-in.
I think a body scan is great.
Middle of the day, end of theday, body scanning, we use this
technique when we're coaching,before we start, let's check in.
We're in the body, you'refeeling some tension.
Where do you usually feeltension?
Do you feel any pain,discomfort?
And check in and be like, Iwonder what's going on there?
And then breathe through thatand go, okay, let's try to ease
(39:32):
some of this tension, if thatcan be dealt with.
The other thing, working withclients and stuff like that,
when you're talking about thereabout progress and stuff like
that.
Another thing I to talk aboutwith people is how many more
ways can you win?
Being in this space of fitnessand nutrition coaching online
and being in the fitness fieldfor a long time and even being
in the medical field, a lot ofit's around weight.
That's America's issue, weight.
(39:53):
And I tell people, there are somany different ways to win, and
we could talk about not yourweight, how about your energy
today?
How about how your clothes fit,or how about your sleep?
And that's why a little bit oftracking is cool because you can
be yeah, I know your weightdidn't move, but look at your
body fat percentage.
It went down and your musclemass went up.
So that's called arecomposition, right?
(40:13):
Or, hey, yes, you're.
Weight didn't move, but look athow well you tracked your food
this week.
Oh yeah.
The weight didn't move, but lookat how much sleep did you got
this week.
Like when was the last time you,so I try to find ways to remind
the person in front of me lookat all these different ways
you're winning as opposed towhere you were before creating
these mindful behavioralchanges.
Coach U (40:34):
Yeah.
Stack the Ws man.
Stack the Ws little by little.
I think it builds such innerconfidence and.
It's it gives people that peaceof mind knowing Hey, I am doing
something.
Even if it's not the specificthing that's the key word that
we're all looking at.
But it is very true because itdoes build up people's
confidence to, to say yeah, I'mdoing this right.
(40:55):
I accomplished something.
And I think that to me is whatyou're saying.
It's Hey, you pay attention tothe things that are improving.
And if something is slipping, wewill pay more attention to that.
But, give yourself some credit.
I think people don't do thatenough.
Seamus Sullivan (41:09):
Yeah, and I'll end with this I think the
biggest thing that helped memove into this field more and I
love coaching people, I lovecoaching them on nutrition, but
the reason I got highereducation wanna do more was at
the end of the day, I thinkwe're helping people shift their
identity.
Into becoming who they wannabecome.
And sometimes people don'tnecessarily need to learn more
things.
Maybe there's some educationpart of it.
(41:29):
That's great.
We are educators at the sametime.
That's why we're doing thispodcast.
But part of it too is remindingthem look at all the.
W's your stack and look at allthis stuff, your stack.
And I think what happens withpeople's identity, especially if
they are a certain weight, forexample, or at a certain
disadvantage or advantage inwherever they're at in their
life, they identify with it somuch.
They believe that they are this.
So much that they don't allowthemselves to move another way
(41:53):
or they have this goal and thatgoal is the thing.
So let's say, let's go back tothe weight.
I'm 200 pounds.
I have to be 150 pounds.
And if it doesn't move andprogress every single day to
that, I am hurting my identity,I'm hurting myself.
And they go into theself-loathing and I'd like.
No, we need to work on thatidentity.
We need to work on the things wecan win with, and I think when
(42:14):
you can help someone shift theiridentity and not be so attached
to it, and then also at the sametime be more fluid and be able
to move into progress, I thinkthat's where I felt I was
winning finally, as a coach.
Coach U (42:25):
I love that.
That was one of the last thingsI wanted to talk to you about
too, is how why you coach, whatyou get out of it.
And I love that.
You're helping people find thatother piece of themselves
because I think we tend to.
We lose it in life when theworld's telling you what you
should be doing or the world'stelling you, how things need to
be done.
Hey, be you baby, that's it.
Be yourself.
Go out there every day and tryto improve yourself, seamus, I
(42:45):
know you gotta go, man.
You're full of valuableinformation and we've always had
good conversations about this.
I wanna make sure you get yourshout outs of the macro podcast.
We got Seamus Sullivan, who'salso a coach, and then at
cenergenics.
So go ahead and plug yourself.
Seamus Sullivan (42:56):
thank you so much again.
The field is growing everysingle day.
What I love about it, for thosethat are listening, if you
really need support withLongevity Health Span,
cenergenics is where we're at.
Beverly Hills flagship.
I run that, but world worldwide.
So if you're in a majormetropolitan city, new York,
Miami, wherever it is, hit usup.
We'll be there.
If you are in need of support ofonline coaching, you're like,
Hey, I need to transformsomething within myself, whether
(43:18):
that be weight or athleticperformance.
I'm there as well, athleticcoaching online.
You can set me up on Instagram,Shamus Matthew Sullivan.
We'll link it here.
And then lastly, look.
If you don't even wanna sign up,you wanna vibe out and hang out.
Marcos and I also have contentover 150 plus episodes where Top
15% podcast as well, which Ireally appreciate.
Being able to give people goodnuance, explorative conversation
(43:41):
about health and wellness andhave amazing guests on.
So you can find us there too andyou can listen to those things
and check us out at the macroperspective.
We're on all platforms, coach Uappreciate you.
That's right.
Be U guys.
I appreciate you.
Thanks so much for the time,man.
Coach U (43:53):
Appreciate you savings.
We'll talk soon, man.
Hey everybody.
This is the Coach U Podcast, andI'm your host, coach you.
This podcast is about beingcurious, learning from others,
and using what we've learned toevolve every single day.
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Coach U Podcast.
(00:23):
Today's episode, we are talkingto Seamus Sullivan.
What you can expect from thisepisode is a conversation about
optimal health and exactly whatit is.
So Seamus has a lot ofcertifications.
He's very intelligent, and heunderstands the science of what
goes into training.
So we talk about what thebenefits are from tracking your
data.
To understanding what'simportant and what's not so
(00:45):
important.
If you have an ora ring, if youhave a Garmin, if you have an
Apple watch, whatever you use.
These are things that are gonnagive you ideas and we want to
learn how to use them and how wecan best utilize them, We're
also gonna cover things likewhat are biomarkers?
Why do we do blood panels?
vO two max.
We've heard it a lot.
It's a hot term, what does itmean to you and how can you
improve it?
Why are these numbers soimportant for us to understand
(01:07):
for our own health and also forour future family and their
health Overall, what I hope youget from this episode is that
you can do something to push theneedle forward to help yourself
out.
Health is really big.
It's a vast topic, especiallywhen it comes to training and
going to the gym and gettingyour right diet and all of these
things that you have to thinkabout when it comes to training.
But in all reality, we makethings way more complex than
(01:30):
they need to be.
We need to simplify this and weneed to find what works for you.
So whatever it is to push thatneedle forward just a little
bit, just a little bit at atime, because it's not gonna all
happen overnight.
Even for trainers who areexperienced, I've had my own
bouts of it.
I've gone through it for months.
Almost a year at times.
Injuries can come into play,depression comes into play.
These are real life things thatwe don't think about and need to
(01:51):
be talked about, especially whenit comes to training and
understanding your body, yourprocess, and where you are and
where you're trying to get to.
So make sure you're walking awaywith one thing that you can
focus on to help push the needleforward to help you live a
healthier, longer, and funner.
Yes, I said funner life.
If you want to hear moreconversations like this, get
(02:12):
video tips, exercise movements,and other things that are gonna
help you explore differentrealms of health and wellness,
make sure to hit that subscribebutton.
All right, everybody.
Here's my conversation withSeamus Sullivan.
Seamus, thank you so much forjoining us, man.
Seamus Sullivan (02:30):
Thank you so much, honored and thank you for
the privilege of having me onthe podcast today.
Coach U (02:34):
Let's dive in to learn about who you are.
and then I want to know what youdo, where you work, and the
clientele and the population youwork with.
Seamus Sullivan (02:43):
I appreciate, a platform to spread the message
of what I wanted to do.
I'm a performance health coach.
My background's in exercisescience multiple nutrition
certifications and strength andconditioning coach, CSCS, and I
am also board certified inhealth and wellness.
Truly my mission on this planetis to serve people in their
health and wellness and optimizetheir health.
Right now my day-to-day work, Iwork and run the flagship of the
(03:04):
Cenegenics in Beverly Hills.
We work in longevity,healthspan, lifespan, brains,
span, all these things,optimizing all those.
Outside of my work, I still dosome online performance and
nutrition coaching as well.
Give free content out in termsof my own podcast called The
Macro Perspective, which you'vebeen an esteemed guest on where
me and my co-host shout out toMarcos.
Talk about health and wellnesstopics, have amazing guests on
(03:25):
such as yourself, bringing innuance perspectives The rest of
the population is pretty privyto, and we wanna keep that
conversation moving forward.
Part of my conversation today isbringing more awareness on some
of the things that we wanna talkabout and giving nuance to it,
examples and helping movewhoever listens here today.
Make a decision about theirhealth to get a little bit
better.
I.
Coach U (03:45):
Love it, man.
Definitely.
Check out the podcast after thisepisode.
You guys like what you listen tohere.
You're gonna love what you guyshear on their podcast as well.
So check it out after we finishup our episode here.
Tell me what you guys do atCenegenics over.
A, the span of a time with aclient from they walk in and
then what's the plan for themongoing.
Seamus Sullivan (04:04):
That's a great question.
Genics is overall encompassing,precision medicine plan,
executive wellness plan if youthink about it.
An extensive amount of.
Diagnostic data on them fromtheir labs before they even come
in.
We look at their labs, we lookat data from their brain health.
We utilize EEG testing on theirbrain.
So I get to look at brains allthe time.
You have for you performancemetrics around power vertical
(04:26):
jump, things this at correlateto longevity and health span
grip strength, balance.
Exercise VO2.
We look at DEXA scans.
We look at a bunch of thingsthat are correlative to overall
looking at their health span andlifespan.
And we test those and we spend agood amount of time with the
person looking at all thosediagnostics and, collaborate
with them.
So I'm the performance healthcoach.
(04:46):
We look at the exercise andnutritional lifestyle
components.
And then the physician looks atmore of the, nutraceutical,
pharmacological and me, moremedical interventions that are
needed to optimize health andwellness and, we spent a lot of
time with our patients asopposed to your basic healthcare
system right now.
You spend eight to 15 minuteswith a doc and they're like,
Hey, you got this, take thispill and leave.
(05:07):
I was talking with someprospective patients today and,
you know what makes you guys alot different?
And what we love about it is, wewent through all the testing,
the labs, the genetics, and wewere able to pinpoint.
Things from our lifestyle andexhaustive lifestyle, the
exercise and nutrition, asopposed to doing a drug deal
with the physician and walkingoutta that hospital.
Going what I'm gonna take thesefor the rest of my life.
(05:27):
No, I think what Genics does agreat job of is holistically
looking at the person and beingvery integrative.
We integrate everything to makesure that they're getting the
best care across the board.
Coach U (05:41):
It's interesting too, talking about the medical field
and I'm not gonna say why one'sbetter than the other
necessarily.
I don't need to get into that.
But I do want to ask you whatyou see the benefit of going
through that style of ahealthcare routine versus what
is traditional right now?
Seamus Sullivan (05:57):
that's a really great question.
What we look at a lot of folksthink about is lifespan, and
that's how long you live.
What Cenegenics motto is agegracefully.
We're not necessarily thosefolks that are Hey, let's live
to forever.
What we want you to do is wewant you to age gracefully.
So let's just say you get to ahundred years old.
When you get to a hundred, howdoes that a hundred years old
look do you have your physicalcomponents?
(06:19):
Do you have your.
Health span, you have your brainspan.
Can you get to that a hundredyears and have all the physical
things you'd like still, theautonomy you're looking for and
have your wits about you.
And I think what our programdelivers and really helps with
our patient base is we look ateverything and we exhaust all
that testing, and we make surethat you're not in categories
(06:41):
that are outside of a diseasestate.
Or normal, we really try to pushyou to higher states of testing
and we.
Ask and collaborate with you topush you to these higher levels
because you think about this asan investment account.
Yes, you can go to your bank,you can make withdrawals and
deposits, but an investmentaccount, you accur a lot of
interest.
You put a lot there and you knowthat investment account can get
(07:03):
so big and you might lose alittle here and there, but
you're not totally upset by itbecause you've accrued so much
return on interest for yourself,whether that be in your
exercise, your nutrition, yourlifestyle, that when you get to
a hundred years old, compared tosomeone else that didn't decide
to be on a program this ordidn't really care about their
(07:23):
health and wellness at thatdeeper level, they're gonna get
to that age, as opposed toliving well.
Coach U (07:30):
Yeah I went to a seminar a few months back and
that was one of the.
Big takeaways was, yes,longevity in life is happening,
we're living longer, but whatare those quality of years like?
And I love that you guys attackthat because it's so true.
It's what's the point of living?
If I'm gonna be in pain havingto take medication, I have to be
on all these different kinds ofroutines and regimens, and some
people are gonna have to gothrough these things.
(07:51):
It's just inevitable in life.
No matter how much health you,how good your health is.
It is one of those things thatwe can think about.
So it's gotta be those twocomponents together.
Seamus Sullivan (08:00):
Yeah.
Coach U (08:01):
what are the biggest numbers, the biggest biomarkers
that you guys are looking at?
And let's even clear up what arebiomarkers and what are the big
things that people probablyshould be looking for, either
when they're going to the doctoror seeing you guys?
Seamus Sullivan (08:15):
Biomarkers, basic component of looking at
your labs, what componentswhether it be a chem screen,
your home panel, your lipidpanel, things like this.
Those are basic biomarkers thatyou're getting.
We look at over a hundred plusbiomarkers when it comes to our
lab testing.
A chem screen is important,which looks at your basic, red
blood cell to white blood cellcount to urine to creatinine, to
(08:35):
all these different things.
But on top of that, having alipid profile, having your
hormone profile, having yourthyroid looked at having all
these different components belooked at so that you can help
optimize them.
And it's important, when youhave those and when you work
with a physician to optimizethem, and we can do a lot of
those things for you and I andfor men and women.
And we're seeing a lot moredata, especially with women too,
(08:57):
to optimize these things becausewhether that's protective of
hormones in their older ages asthey age well.
Also protective of other diseasestates that are more privy for
women.
For example, osteopenia,osteoporosis which is bone
breaking and things like this.
When we get to look at thehormones and look at that, we
have a better chance ofmeasuring.
Once it's measured, we canmanage it a little bit better
(09:18):
with exercise and nutrition,lifestyle and even
pharmacological interventions asdeemed and collaborated with the
doctor and a physician.
Coach U (09:26):
Hormones are a really big deal, and I don't think we
talk about them enough.
I don't understand, and I won'tpretend to understand them in
depth, but I did study them inschool and I understand on the
basic level what they are, butwhy?
Seamus Sullivan (09:37):
Yeah.
Coach U (09:38):
It's the endocrine system.
Why is that system and ourhormone balance so important and
what is hormone balance?
Seamus Sullivan (09:46):
this is a great question.
I'm not trying to get outta mydepth here either.
Hormone balance is.
I would say it's very an end ofone.
It's very specific to theperson, and when you come
through a cenegenics model aswell, we really work with you
to.
Optimize where you're at.
We don't try to put you againstthe playing field.
(10:06):
As a general, and I'm puttingquote unquote here, general
recommendations, and I'll usetestosterone for example.
I think this is an easy one tomake an example of.
Two 70 to 800 nanograms fordeciliter basically is you're
good.
But if you're 22 years old andyou're at two 80, technically
you're good, but you're 22 yearsold.
Coach U (10:26):
Yeah, say anywhere 22 to 27 is the prime.
Seamus Sullivan (10:29):
Yeah.
And you're at the lowest end.
You have to think about that.
Why is that?
And you have to look at thisperson's lifestyle, their
nutrition, their exercise, theirsleep if they're doing any
behaviors that's stopping themfrom producing the hormone that
they should probably beproducing.
And if it's clinically indicatedthat they, need to change
something.
When you think of hormonebalance, is it what does that
mean as a balance as to how it'shelping with your life?
(10:51):
For, again, back totestosterone, is it helping with
muscle mass?
Is it helping with energy?
Is it helping with libido?
Is it helping with mood?
hormone regulation, and alsothis is for women too.
It's important when we regulateto balance that we can have.
The life that we're looking for,the effectiveness of life that
we're looking for.
Whether that be, again thespring in our step the mood, the
(11:12):
energy, the focus and thenhelping us out.
So that's why when we look atthose numbers, when we look at
hormones, when we look at thesystem, the endocrine system,
and all these things, we.
Again, make that very tailoredto the person and want them to
be in a place, not just balance,but also optimize too, so that
they can, live essentially thebest version of themselves.
Coach U (11:34):
Yeah.
And I think that's at the basisof helping clients.
What would you say in workingwith all the patients clients,
patients, whoever you call them,what is the common factor?
What do you see the most when itcomes to the shift that they
see?
Is it, Hey, I saw these numbersand I really need to improve
them.
Is it, Hey, I really wanted tolose five pounds and this is
helping me do it.
Like what, where do you see theshift happen in that kind of the
(11:57):
things start to click andthey're like, this makes sense.
I need, I can make thesechanges.
Seamus Sullivan (12:00):
Honestly, it's a combination of a bunch of
things.
I think, when you're coming toan age group that Genics really
serves well, it's probably inthat 40 plus category, 55 plus
category men and women.
These men and women are lookingfor all of.
That right?
They're not looking for, Hey, Iwant my weight to be in a
certain place.
I don't wanna be dealing withpain as much as I'm dealing
with, whether it be frominflammation or injuries.
(12:23):
From what hearing from them andexhaustive, coaching sessions,
when they get to that age,everything is turned on.
They feel everything.
They wake up the next day,they're feeling how that sleep
messed them up their back, theirneck as opposed to years before.
And their energy's off andthey're so sensitive to it now.
Or they ate something and it's Iused to eat this thing and now.
(12:44):
It's really messing with me.
All these components are reallyturning on and they're so
sensitive to it.
And at that age, they are sofaced with the consequences of
our human frailty
Coach U (12:56):
What have you seen being the most important thing
for older adults?
Because.
The pain's gonna be there.
You are growing older, as yousaid, phase.
I love that because there'sdifferent phases of training as
well, right?
We're not, I'm not training thesame way now that I was training
when I was playing collegefootball.
It's not the same.
Nor is my body I find the otherthings that I really love to do,
(13:16):
and I also still obviouslystrength train, but what have
you seen in that older clienteleto be that the thing that makes
them go, wow, this is.
I see how this is helping menow, or whether it be
cardiovascular work, whether itbe doing more strength training
work, more flexibility work.
How is that formulated?
Have you seen that shape up?
Seamus Sullivan (13:36):
When you think of training and you think of
these phases and all thesethings, the biggest things I've
really seen that havecategorically been some of the
most amazing things, and I'll gointo them, is muscle mass.
And VO2 max.
And to break that down, that'syour cardiovascular efficiency,
how well you utilize oxygen.
But lemme start with muscle massfirst.
(13:56):
We utilize something called theDEXA scan, dual X-ray imaging.
We scan you.
When we look at those componentsand look at that tissue, muscle
has been such a.
Big component of how well youlive.
It really is how much autonomyyou could have as you age, doing
functional movements, having thestrength to do that and having
(14:18):
just the ability and the fervorto move, muscle mass now.
Again, going back to yourfootball days, I don't think you
need to train like that, butsomebody needs to incorporate
resistance training or weighttraining or weightbearing
exercises in a way that issupportive of their muscle mass.
At least maintaining orincreasing as they age.
Joint and connective tissuesupport and that's safe.
(14:39):
Good technique.
Having that in a schedule thatis supportive of that person is
gonna be great.
Plus lots of new research onmuscle mass being an amazing
glucose disposal sink, quoteunquote, you can utilize
carbohydrates better.
It's better fueling strategiesthere.
And it's really good for overallhealth.
So muscle mass there.
(14:59):
As we age standpoint, not onlywe thinking about weightbearing
exercise, how can we move inspace?
You move back and forth and youdodge and you zig and you zagged
and all that.
But in the sport of life, westill have moments like that.
And weightbearing exercises, ifyou incorporate some of these
functional things, what I'mthinking of is most injuries
don't happen because you want togo for a run, what happened was
(15:20):
you have to break and that'swhere you get hurt, and that's
weightbearing exercise.
That's what we call theeccentric loading or the slow
loading of a movement.
And it's not going up the stairsthat's gonna hurt you, it's
going down the stairs andfalling down.
That's gonna hurt you.
So we wanna make sure we can.
Manage our weight, have ourbalance, have our strength
beneath us.
That's important.
That's why muscle mass is thereand again, very much important
(15:41):
for a lot more scientific stuff,but the basics.
Having some strength, havingsome functional movement
capacity is gonna be superhelpful.
Someone
Coach U (15:49):
to get into it and get themselves off the couch and
start into a routine.
How do you suggest someonestarts?
What are some minimums theyshould be hitting every week,
let's say I.
Seamus Sullivan (16:01):
Honestly, it depends on the person.
It really does.
First and foremost you couldhave the right answer, but if
they're not gonna come get it,
Coach U (16:07):
Yeah.
Seamus Sullivan (16:08):
they're not gonna do it.
So you gotta find something thatthey're willing to at least
enjoy work with.
And I always say work withsomeone like coach U here who's
a professional that can checkout your form and really be
there and coach you throughsessions and help you out.
I think that's always great,support technique, things like
this.
But on a minimum, there's somescience that says minimum
effective dose minimum effectivevolume training.
(16:30):
These landmarks a few sets perweek.
I think it was like betweenseven and 20 sets or something
like that on muscles likecompound movements.
You're, you're gettingeverything stimulated and you're
done.
And if, I think if I was lookingat a full training program that
was within 30 to 45 minutes, twoto three days of resistance
training, if it were full body,you get everything you're in,
you're out of the gym or you'rein, you're out of your home gym
(16:51):
or in and out of your, littlehome gym center.
That's the commitment, that'snot really asking for much,
Coach U (16:56):
all.
It's tough, because our, thetraining world is filled with
modalities, different theoriesideas of how things should look
people selling things left andright.
So it's tough for people to siftthrough everything, having those
basic, easy standards to hit, Ithink it really makes it easy
for people to say, Hey, I cango, I can go do this.
And if you put it down on paper,it's not that much time and it's
(17:19):
building.
Your life forever.
And you're building like we astaking it back to what you said
earlier, taking it back to thatability to have a more
fulfilled, productive, pain-freelife if we're gonna live longer
too, so really filling it andmaking those years, something
that we can really enjoy.
Seamus Sullivan (17:38):
100%.
And I think, when it comes tominimum effective dose, I wanna
go back to the thing ofenjoyment.
I think if you can enjoy theprocess, you're more willing and
likely to stick with it.
Just go to the thing that worksfor you, because if you're gonna
find a form of movement trainingand you feel that you're
resistant to it and you're justnot liking it, who's gonna show
(17:59):
up?
For that, so make sure it'senjoyable.
The next point I wanted to getinto was VO2.
I think that's really important.
So there's a lot of science onthis and there's a lot of
speakers about VO2, but VO2 max,again back to the basics here,
is how much oxygen you canutilize at maximum exercise.
And if you go from a certainpercentile or a quintile you
(18:21):
basically increase your lifespanor.
Health span with life, three tofive, times, people that live
longer when they have this.
I wanna give a visual inpeople's minds, but think of
let's say zero to 50, andnumbered all the way up.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, all the way to50.
And on that left side of thatgraph, it's zero to 50 going up.
Then on the right side of it,you have these different layers
(18:43):
of movement.
So you know, around three VO2 issleeping, hanging out, sitting
down five, eight, maybe walkingaround a little bit, 10 to 15
laundry, little gardening, alittle squatting up and down,
sitting up and down.
Getting up to 15 and 20 isyou're running up the stairs.
So that's a quick visual for theperson to understand.
Daily activities of daily livingis between five to 20 VO2.
(19:07):
So when we do your VO2 max test,which is a constant graded test
on a treadmill, on a bike, wehave a mask on you.
We're checking out your CO2,your VO2, all these things.
We're gonna push you as hard asyou can.
What's your max heart rate, maxbreathing, max respiratory rate.
All these things, we're gonnafind out a lot about your heart
your lungs your blood work, allthis stuff.
We push you to your max.
You get to your max.
Wherever you're at in life,let's say your max is 25.
(19:29):
I told you that activities ofdaily living are between eight
and 15, five and 15.
You running up the stairs is 20,so imagine that.
You're running up the stairs andyou're already gassed'cause
you're five points away fromyour max.
So what we'd like for you to dois bring that up, closer to that
50 or more.
50 plus truly is I to tellpeople 50 and my professor's
(19:52):
around 50 is where people thatare really well trained or pros.
Of in high endurance sports,pretty much start.
Coach U (19:59):
Yep.
Seamus Sullivan (19:59):
what we like to tell people is, look, if you can
get your cardiovascular systemup.
We're doing a really good job.
We're gonna move you into apercentile or quintile of
living.
You can live longer and livebetter, and you have more energy
to you.
Doing daily activities of livingaren't gonna fatigue you so
much.
Going up the stairs, doing somelaundry aren't gonna fatigue you
(20:20):
as much.
I.
This is what it means day today.
This is where you live in thiszone day to day.
And if your max is pretty closeto that zone, you're tapping
out.
But if your max is double,triple that you've got so much
to do in your day-to-dayactivities,
Coach U (20:33):
and something as simple as adding more walks and maybe
at a higher pace walk, becausethey don't have to be a runner
or a jog necessarily.
You can go on an incline, asmall incline treadmill, even
the.
You got some hills wherever youlive.
It doesn't have to be that big,but elevating that heart rate up
a little bit.
What are some tactics that youuse with your clients?
I.
Seamus Sullivan (20:51):
I'm gonna put a little caveat there too.
There's been some new studiestalking about only half the
population gets.
The stress from what we callzone two or brisk cardio, which
is if you were gonna go for ajog or run for an hour, you can
talk, but it's uncomfortable totalk.
But you can hold the pace for anhour or something that.
Only about half the amount ofpeople, get a stressed or VO2
(21:14):
adaptation from that.
I definitely recommend zone two.
On top of some higher intensitythresholds, what you said,
increasing that heart rate,trying to get it to that heart
rate max, right?
A quick calculation is two 20minus your age or you could look
at your Apple Watch or Fitbit orsomething that and whatever your
max has been, it knows you alittle bit better than me.
(21:35):
But you do that a few sessionsper week, you know you have high
intensity interval sessions.
There's been a few that's beenpopularized, the Norwegian four
by four, which is four minuteson, four minutes recovery.
The way we do it here atcenegenics is we bring you to
your max heart rate and then youget to that max heart rate, and
then you re, you hold it for 20seconds, so you hit that max
(21:55):
heart rate.
You don't touch it, you hold it.
That is brutal.
Coach U (21:59):
20 seconds might sound quick to a lot of people, but at
your max heart rate, you are,you have to think about every
little piece of energy you canhold onto for 20 seconds.
That's great you guys.
Mean.
Seamus Sullivan (22:10):
seconds.
Then we bring you down and thenyou rest about 90 seconds or
back to your heart rate recoveryzone.
And then you bring it back up tothat max heart rate.
You touch the max heart rate.
Then you hold it.
We do that for four rounds, andyou can do that a few times per
week.
But I'll tell you this, it isvery taxing on the nervous
system.
this is tough.
But it's because we're trulygetting you to your top end.
Now we don't live there and wedon't do workouts there all the
(22:31):
time.
We really gotta manage yourweekly volume because, what did
I say earlier, right?
You have to also.
Want you increase.
I would say the best though, myrecommendations personally is I
don't like to do those highintensity interval stuff with
impact type of training, sprintwork or running, because I want
you to focus on getting yourheart rate up and repetitive.
Some of the best ways Ipersonally like the air bike,
(22:52):
the assault bike, or theelliptical'cause inefficient.
Both the upper and the lowerbody, the heart is just pumping
away.
I like that.
I like the rower, I like theskier.
Non-impact stuff, because youcould put your phone down, look
at a heart rate monitor, andlock in as best as you can, as
opposed to running, rolling anankle or something.
Coach U (23:09):
And No I love it.
I think that's I'm way on boardtoo with the low impact for
interval training and when yousprint.
We're trying to work on my BOtwo Maxs.
I'm trying to work on my speedand
Seamus Sullivan (23:18):
Speed.
Yeah.
Coach U (23:19):
can.
And doing repeats is notnecessarily, and that's even
going back, I'm sure when youwrestled and football and
growing up playing sports in thenineties and the early two
thousands, it was still a littlemore old school in the sense of
punishment was the sprinting,punishment was the running.
Whereas now, coaching as long asI have now, it's no.
Sprinting is the gold.
That's the thing you get to do.
And you, it's probably the mostathletic and the most, the
(23:41):
biggest form of athleticexpression a human body can put
Seamus Sullivan (23:44):
100%.
It's funny you say that becausepeople did sprints before where
they're that's the punishment.
And then they're realizingexercise scientists, you're
actually running down yourathletes.
Coach U (23:53):
You mentioned Apple watches, Fitbits, all that
stuff.
I use the Garmin.
It's, it tells you the VO2.
What is that actually telling methough,
Seamus Sullivan (24:00):
I think they're getting a little bit better with
the VO2, but I still see about aup to over 8% error rate with
that meaning up or down.
Let's say I get someone on hereand they got a 50 I.
And then they could be 8% downor 8% higher.
I have a lot of runners that Iwork with and a lot of people I
work with.
And I do wanna let you know thatthe VO2 that I do is a slightly
variation.
We do it on a bike'cause it'ssafer, more repeatable as
(24:21):
opposed to a maximal VO two onthe.
Treadmill, most people we'reworking with are not conditioned
to run their maximum run, so wedo it on a bike.
Almost a 20% differentiator, butit's a good proxy.
I think the technology is great.
I think it gives you a number tolook at.
So what I tell people is, thisis how I look at it.
We're gonna do your VO2 today.
Whatever your VO2 on your Garinsays, or your Apple Watch says.
We'll also take that as well.
(24:42):
And then all we want it to do isfrom this test on, we want it to
trend up.
So we wanna make sure that yourtraining I is making sure that
guy is also training up too.
'cause most likely it'll trendup on hours.
And we test that and we've seenthat too.
So people will go through ourprotocols for three months, six
months, and then, it goes upslightly.
Also remember, too, VO2, part ofVO2 is there's a calculation.
(25:03):
Part of it is your weight.
So if you drop your body fat,for example, and you did the
same test right now, you dropped10 pounds of body fat right now.
Your VO2 got better because.
Part of that is divided by yourweight.
So you got better.
And if you lost 10 pounds offat, think about that.
All the veins and thecapillaries and all the blood
going through 10 extra pounds ofbody fat as opposed to not
needing to go through 10 poundsof non metabolically active
(25:26):
organ tissue.
It's super helpful.
Yeah, there's a weight componenttoo, so when people come back on
our program annually, what'scrazy is not only has our VO2
gotten better because they lostweight alone, but yes, it got
better because they weretracking it through their
wearables and also utilizingsome of the training protocols
we recommended on top of thezone two and the hit.
Coach U (25:45):
H how much should we pay attention to the numbers?
'cause it can be a littledaunting for people, right?
Where it's this is overwhelming.
Oh, I got this to think about.
I got 70 other things to thinkabout.
I got my kids, whatever.
People got life as well.
How do you handle that?
Seamus Sullivan (25:57):
That's a great question and that's what a coach
really does well for you is letyour mind get off of that.
That's what we do with yourannual program here at
cenegenix.
Or what we do with ourperformance health assessment is
we take all that data.
We handle it.
We have years and years ofphysicians and.
Performance health teams andwisdom.
There's a difference aboutknowledge as opposed to
experience and wisdom.
(26:17):
And when you can offset some ofthat data to somebody else, your
mind can relax.
At the end of the day, themetrics that matter are the ones
that you really want to measurethe most.
And for most people right now inour current.
Day and age we really care aboutis what does my weight look
like?
What does my body fat percentagelook like?
How good is my cardio what's mysleep look like?
(26:38):
Maybe a few metrics and try notto, get lost in it too much and
be emotionally involved in ittoo much.
It's a data point, you know whatI'm saying?
'Cause a lot of the folks I dealwith if they wanna lose weight,
they're so identified with thatweight that it's frustrating for
them to even say that with agrain of salt to say, Hey, let
us help you make some decisions.
(27:00):
We'll handle the data.
But if you were to look at data,it's really the ones you need to
measure the most.
And most people that I work withit's likely around, their
weight, body fat may be aroundsome food metrics, calories,
maybe around some sleep.
But try to keep it as simple aspossible, to get back to the
basics and go to bed by 9:00 PMCall it a day.
Coach U (27:18):
Man, that if that's not the best plan just to get to bed
by 9:00 PM that soundsfantastic.
It's funny, when you're a kid,you fight it and then you get
older, you're dude, I need it.
I need, so I get it, man.
As a health practitioner andsomeone who also lives a healthy
lifestyle.
An active lifestyle.
You partake in many differentevents.
(27:40):
Partaking in the hyrox you've,have you run marathons too, or
am I going crazy?
Seamus Sullivan (27:44):
I've run one and I'm running a half one day,
one week from this recording?
Coach U (27:47):
So you do that, you are active.
What are some of the principlesthat you live by?
Seamus Sullivan (27:52):
The data is great, but learning to listen to
yourself more and knowing whento pull back and knowing when to
push and knowing that takeswisdom though.
You will need some data atfirst, you really do.
For example, I was talking aboutthe absence of you do need to
learn how to track your weightsand sets.
You do need to learn how totrack your runs.
You do need to learn how totrack your macros or calories
(28:16):
because.
That level of trackability atsome point will help you create
a level of clarity in yourselfthat you'll be okay.
I know what this looks like dayin, day out so that when things
get on and off of the plan, Iknow how to zig and zag, but you
have to earn that.
And I've had to earn that rightthrough 20 plus years of trials
(28:36):
and tribulations from being anathlete in wrestling to
collegiate wrestling, to nowbeing more of a endurance
athlete and a weekend warriortype, and what I learned through
all that, was I.
Sometimes didn't listen to thenumbers and was too gung-ho and
wanted to get after it, alwayswanted to PR and all this and
relating it back to longevityand health span stuff.
(28:57):
You don't need to die on thathill.
As much as I do all thisoptimization this quantified
self tracking apps, sleeptrackers, all this stuff, at the
end of the day, I think.
need to create a level of wisdomwithin yourself and knowing when
you need to push and when youneed to.
So that's what I've learned.
And I've really leaned onrecovery more than pushing now,
(29:17):
and I've gotten a lot more outof it as opposed to, I made that
new pr, but I had an ankleinjury on top of it, to make
that PR happen, right?
It's learning the trade-offs andI think that takes a lot of
wisdom and it does take a littlebit of utilizing some of that
trackability.
For example, there's an app I'llshout'em out we have a
partnership with them.
On the macro perspective,hybrid, H-Y-B-R-D, their new app
(29:40):
came out this week and.
It was telling me I was overtraining, I got this plan that I
need to do.
And then four days of doing thisplan that I needed to stick to
Sunday, one Sunday I wassupposed to run nine miles.
I fell flat.
My nervous system was off.
Everything was I was irritated,I was irritable.
I was waking up grumpy, woke onthe wrong side of the bed and I
(30:01):
realized oh wow, as much as I'mlistening to myself, I do also
need to listen to this data too.
And tell me, Hey, you need tomanage that and you need to be a
little bit more adaptable, asopposed to, Hey, Seamus, you
have this plan here.
You're supposed to hit thesechecklists.
I've realized I don't need tohit that checklist anymore.
You get your minimum effectivedose.
You don't need to run the exactplan.
(30:22):
You need to learn how to callaudibles, especially as you age,
what were you looking for inthat training?
Oh, that training plan wasasking for me to get a little
faster, a little bit stronger, alittle bit more endured.
Did I need to do the exact planto make that happen?
No.
Maybe I needed this componentand then I can move on.
And I'll be honest with you,that was probably one of the
biggest things that I'velearned, and I keep learning and
(30:43):
relearning as I've gone deeperinto my athletic pursuits.
Coach U (30:46):
Having those tools, having the numbers, it's so
important.
Having the plan is important.
What I have learned to go off ofwhat you're saying is that out
as you have it, and your brainknows what sets are, how many
miles you need to run, how muchtime you need to put in here,
you know that.
At the same time, your body willtell you what it needs if you
(31:07):
can learn how to listen to it.
So in that moment, you said, theminimal effective dose, maybe
you had four sets of 15 that youhad to get done, but your body's
three sets of 12 is actuallyreally good today.
I don't need to go above thatand.
We get married to the idea thatit has to look this way.
It's very rigid in thinking, butyou're saying, we need to
audible, we need to be morefluid in how we're moving
(31:29):
through our programming, throughthe numbers that we're seeing.
Maybe our wearables are saying,Hey, you had a stressful period,
we should probably back off alittle bit.
You do need to push and,adaptation doesn't happen unless
there's intensity at the sametime.
Adaptation will diminish bigtime if there's no recovery.
I want you to talk a little bitmore about recovery because
(31:50):
it's, again, it's a big word.
It's HRV, VO2, it's all the,what do you define recovery as,
and how does somebody regulatethat?
Seamus Sullivan (32:00):
Recovery is any motor activity that will allow
the adaptation you're lookingfor without reaching into
overreaching or over training.
And what that means is.
Recovery doesn't flat out mean,Hey, veg out and watch TV all
day.
It may mean some activerecovery, it may mean some other
things, but recovery also tunesinto what you're already doing.
(32:24):
Yes, maybe a smarter trainingplan, the audible, but also some
key other life self factors.
Are you getting your nourishnourishment in your nutrition
and things that.
Most people don't think aboutthe recovery in that way because
they think.
Those are different segments,and that's what recovery is.
It's actually the whole thingyou're looking at.
And making sure that the food isin there, the calories are in
there, the nutrients are inthere, making sure the sleep and
(32:46):
the sleep quality is there.
But another part of it, thatmost people don't forget is
remember the rest of your lifeis stress, eustress and
distress.
It's still stress under the.
Umbrella of it, even if it'sgood stress.
Knowing your activities that youdo day to day Hey look, yeah,
I've got this long run today,but I also have multiple back to
back meetings, differentpersonalities.
(33:08):
Or I have a big project that Ineed to do.
I'm gonna go late night into.
Knowing that, that has also theathletics of life, there's a lot
of mental capacity there.
There's a lot.
So I think looking at that aswell and going oh wow.
The training isn't just off thefield anymore or out of the gym
or out of my run.
It's oh, I need to make surethat this training is good to
support the rest of my day.
So that's what I work withpeople is life, lifestyle.
(33:29):
Look at their calendars a lot,actually.
Now they're traveling, they'redoing this and it's oh, okay.
So we need to make sure that thetraining, the nutrition, and
then the lifestyle is indicativeof recovery because you can get
the quote unquote recoverybecause you went to go get a
massage or you did some, sauna,or you did some, cold plunge or
something like this, but therest of your life is stress the
(33:51):
F out.
And you're not managing thatstress appropriately.
You don't have any othereffective tools to manage that
stress.
You're not necessarily gettingto bed on time, you're not doing
these things.
So I think recovery is a bignebulous term.
And also at the same time, it isnebulous in that it's
overcompensating your wholelife, not just.
Workout, not workout, foam roll,not foam roll.
Stretch, not stretch.
(34:12):
It's it's the whole thing.
And I think you have to look atit bigger time.
Spans.
Coach U (34:15):
I love that.
No, I love that answer.
'cause it is vast and I thinkit's, again it's everything else
with weight loss, with musclegain, with improving your VO
two, very simple.
It's very simple.
And I think, you said, keepingit simple and keeping it basic
is gonna help you get to that,whatever next level you, you
want to, something you also saidabout recovery that I loved is
(34:38):
you need to be active.
And I don't think younecessarily need to be, going
and jogging all the time, orgetting on a bike and riding 10
miles.
But it's, I think you have tofind your recovery levels and
getting blood.
To me it's just blood flow.
Blood flow is
Seamus Sullivan (34:52):
That's what I
Coach U (34:53):
the best thing you can do for recovery.
Right.
Seamus Sullivan (34:55):
There's multiple ways.
Modalities of recovery, whetherit be passive or active.
On this active chart, is it selfmy fascial release, or is it a
walk, or is it a easy zone to,or is it this other thing, or
passive is massage, infrared,active passive, and it's a
matter of playing with all ofthose.
And some of those recoverythings are more peripheral
nervous system as opposed tocentral nervous system, right?
(35:18):
Central nervous system might bemeditation, you're trying to
calm yourself down innerly, buta peripheral nervous system is
like someone massaging you.
You're getting some soft tissuestuff, the peripheral stuff is
getting there, and that mightcalm you down too.
So I think it's a combination ofthat.
I don't know what the I don'tknow what the perfect, ratio is.
And I wouldn't know because it'sgonna be different for everyone.
For me, this week, I need a lotof body work.
(35:39):
My ankles, my calves, I'mgetting into this race next
week.
I need to be fresh.
My nervous system is not asfried centrally because my
workload's been good.
Everything's been okay.
I've been gonna sleep on time,things are that.
That's a quick example of it.
Coach U (35:50):
No, I love it because I think it.
People think it's one thing,it's one specific plan that you
follow.
This is how you recover this.
You said, a cold plunge or asauna or a meditation, or I
gotta stretch.
I got a foam roll.
It's all of these things areabsolutely tools that you can
use.
It's how do you use them?
When do you use them?
At what level are you usingthem?
(36:12):
It's, it can be confusing.
Even for me as a trainer you're,and I know you're busy, we're
all busy, right?
We all have a lot of things thatwe have going on.
Managing the ability to be ableto take a step back and say Hey,
I need to give myself a littlebit of love here.
I do want to talk a little bitabout HRV because it is a.
A hot term, if you will.
My watch tells me where I'm at.
(36:32):
I still don't know what itmeans.
So please enlighten us a littlebit on
Seamus Sullivan (36:36):
Yeah.
Coach U (36:37):
and, why do we care about it?
Seamus Sullivan (36:39):
So first off, I'm no HRV expert as well.
Some data scientists in exercisei've written about this and I've
read everything.
I could get my hands on it.
I believe HRV was primarilystudied with astronauts in
Russia and America 50 years ago.
But it was trying to get intothe sports performance space
because we were trying tocorrelate recovery as well.
And heart rate variability,that's what it is in
(36:59):
milliseconds in between eachheartbeat, what the quickness on
that was.
And a higher HRV correlatedwith, a higher vagal tone,
meaning Hey, you betteradaptation, better
recoverability.
And, what I've read too andheard as well is it's actually
just like your day-to-day, yourweek to week average for
yourself.
You don't necessarily need tomax out your HRV.
It's more like where does itrespond to as a posterior
(37:21):
baseline?
Did it go high?
Did it go low?
So if it's low, are you underrecovered or un training?
Or if it's high, it's you'regood.
You can go today.
You can do some hard stuff.
And there's a lot of wearableson that talk about watches.
Whoop is probably the big oneaura is probably a big one.
From my understanding too fromthese big exercise science
folks, that is actually just aderivative of a different
algorithmic.
Proprietary thing as opposed toa true HRV.
(37:43):
'cause a true HRV, you need aheart rate monitor to really
check that on the day to day.
Sounds more convenient, soundsmore realistic as opposed to
waking up and trying to figureout my pulse and my blood
pressure and all this stuff.
Have utilized a whoop an aura,and I think data for some reason
when you can see it.
You act on it, right?
Hey, your aura said you got abad sleep.
(38:03):
I gotta make sure I do my sleep.
But I've also seen people justbuy tech and literally have bad
sleep scores and they're notdoing anything about it.
So it's what's the point ofwearing that thing?
Don't you buy something tochange behavior?
So if it's not helping youchange behavior, what was the
point?
I think it's cool science.
I love the HRVI I nerd out aboutit, but at the end of the day,
if you're not changing yourbehavior based on any of it or
changing your training plan orall this, and for the people
(38:25):
that we're talking to anddealing with our day-to-day
cenegenics or my coaching, Idon't think they need to get
into this stuff.
even me, even though I doathletic stuff and all that,
because here's what's gonnahappen.
I got game day.
I'm still gonna show up gameday, whether I know my HRV or
not,
Coach U (38:39):
yep.
No, and it's also one of thosethings too.
You don't need to get involvedin that unless you're a
professional athlete and have ateam of people doing this for
you and can do it all for you,you don't really need it., Do
you have a tip for people on howto maybe not necessarily track
that, but to check in?
What are some things that theycan do to check in with
themselves?
What are things that you do?
Maybe you help your clients,'cause you also coach clients
(39:01):
online.
So what are some things andtactics that you have them?
Hey, let's keep you on pace.
I know you're not necessarilyhitting the numbers that you
want to, but you are moving theneedle forward.
Seamus Sullivan (39:10):
So that's a really good question.
I'll say first off, a quickcheck-in.
I think a body scan is great.
Middle of the day, end of theday, body scanning, we use this
technique when we're coaching,before we start, let's check in.
We're in the body, you'refeeling some tension.
Where do you usually feeltension?
Do you feel any pain,discomfort?
And check in and be like, Iwonder what's going on there?
And then breathe through thatand go, okay, let's try to ease
(39:32):
some of this tension, if thatcan be dealt with.
The other thing, working withclients and stuff like that,
when you're talking about thereabout progress and stuff like
that.
Another thing I to talk aboutwith people is how many more
ways can you win?
Being in this space of fitnessand nutrition coaching online
and being in the fitness fieldfor a long time and even being
in the medical field, a lot ofit's around weight.
That's America's issue, weight.
(39:53):
And I tell people, there are somany different ways to win, and
we could talk about not yourweight, how about your energy
today?
How about how your clothes fit,or how about your sleep?
And that's why a little bit oftracking is cool because you can
be yeah, I know your weightdidn't move, but look at your
body fat percentage.
It went down and your musclemass went up.
So that's called arecomposition, right?
(40:13):
Or, hey, yes, you're.
Weight didn't move, but look athow well you tracked your food
this week.
Oh yeah.
The weight didn't move, but lookat how much sleep did you got
this week.
Like when was the last time you,so I try to find ways to remind
the person in front of me lookat all these different ways
you're winning as opposed towhere you were before creating
these mindful behavioralchanges.
Coach U (40:34):
Yeah.
Stack the Ws man.
Stack the Ws little by little.
I think it builds such innerconfidence and.
It's it gives people that peaceof mind knowing Hey, I am doing
something.
Even if it's not the specificthing that's the key word that
we're all looking at.
But it is very true because itdoes build up people's
confidence to, to say yeah, I'mdoing this right.
(40:55):
I accomplished something.
And I think that to me is whatyou're saying.
It's Hey, you pay attention tothe things that are improving.
And if something is slipping, wewill pay more attention to that.
But, give yourself some credit.
I think people don't do thatenough.
Seamus Sullivan (41:09):
Yeah, and I'll end with this I think the
biggest thing that helped memove into this field more and I
love coaching people, I lovecoaching them on nutrition, but
the reason I got highereducation wanna do more was at
the end of the day, I thinkwe're helping people shift their
identity.
Into becoming who they wannabecome.
And sometimes people don'tnecessarily need to learn more
things.
Maybe there's some educationpart of it.
(41:29):
That's great.
We are educators at the sametime.
That's why we're doing thispodcast.
But part of it too is remindingthem look at all the.
W's your stack and look at allthis stuff, your stack.
And I think what happens withpeople's identity, especially if
they are a certain weight, forexample, or at a certain
disadvantage or advantage inwherever they're at in their
life, they identify with it somuch.
They believe that they are this.
So much that they don't allowthemselves to move another way
(41:53):
or they have this goal and thatgoal is the thing.
So let's say, let's go back tothe weight.
I'm 200 pounds.
I have to be 150 pounds.
And if it doesn't move andprogress every single day to
that, I am hurting my identity,I'm hurting myself.
And they go into theself-loathing and I'd like.
No, we need to work on thatidentity.
We need to work on the things wecan win with, and I think when
(42:14):
you can help someone shift theiridentity and not be so attached
to it, and then also at the sametime be more fluid and be able
to move into progress, I thinkthat's where I felt I was
winning finally, as a coach.
Coach U (42:25):
I love that.
That was one of the last thingsI wanted to talk to you about
too, is how why you coach, whatyou get out of it.
And I love that.
You're helping people find thatother piece of themselves
because I think we tend to.
We lose it in life when theworld's telling you what you
should be doing or the world'stelling you, how things need to
be done.
Hey, be you baby, that's it.
Be yourself.
Go out there every day and tryto improve yourself, seamus, I
(42:45):
know you gotta go, man.
You're full of valuableinformation and we've always had
good conversations about this.
I wanna make sure you get yourshout outs of the macro podcast.
We got Seamus Sullivan, who'salso a coach, and then at
cenergenics.
So go ahead and plug yourself.
Seamus Sullivan (42:56):
thank you so much again.
The field is growing everysingle day.
What I love about it, for thosethat are listening, if you
really need support withLongevity Health Span,
cenergenics is where we're at.
Beverly Hills flagship.
I run that, but world worldwide.
So if you're in a majormetropolitan city, new York,
Miami, wherever it is, hit usup.
We'll be there.
If you are in need of support ofonline coaching, you're like,
Hey, I need to transformsomething within myself, whether
(43:18):
that be weight or athleticperformance.
I'm there as well, athleticcoaching online.
You can set me up on Instagram,Shamus Matthew Sullivan.
We'll link it here.
And then lastly, look.
If you don't even wanna sign up,you wanna vibe out and hang out.
Marcos and I also have contentover 150 plus episodes where Top
15% podcast as well, which Ireally appreciate.
Being able to give people goodnuance, explorative conversation
(43:41):
about health and wellness andhave amazing guests on.
So you can find us there too andyou can listen to those things
and check us out at the macroperspective.
We're on all platforms, coach Uappreciate you.
That's right.
Be U guys.
I appreciate you.
Thanks so much for the time,man.
Coach U (43:53):
Appreciate you savings.
We'll talk soon, man.
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