December 6, 2023 • 51 mins
Ever feel like you're facing Everest when considering a doctoral degree? Dr. FeLisa Albert-Wisses, a beacon of hope and resilience, joins us to share her story of triumph over adversity in academia and healthcare. As a black woman who surged through the barriers of the healthcare system, she inspires us with her journey of choosing to disrupt systemic racism in education by pursuing a Doctorate in Public Health.
Through this candid conversation, Dr. FeLisa peels back the curtain on the largely unspoken challenges black women and non-binary individuals face in academia. She underscores the power of self-advocacy, confidence and a robust support system, all while navigating the transition from being a nurse and consultant to becoming a doctor. We glean insights on the potential financial benefits that come with a doctoral degree, as well as the importance of supporting and uplifting fellow black professionals.
As we traverse through this thought-provoking chat, you'll discover the significance of racial equity, magnified in the face of COVID-19. Dr. FeLisa combines her expertise in education, health, and racial equity to champion the cause of black women. This dialog serves as a reminder to prioritize self-care, especially for black women and non-binary doctoral students, emphasizing the need for mentorship and well-being. Join us for this compelling episode and learn to navigate academia with confidence, resilience, and compassion.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Cohort Sisters podcast, where we give
voice to the stories, strugglesand successes of Black women and
non-binary people with doctoraldegrees.
I'm your host, dr Yajma Koala,and today we have Dr Felicia
Albert-Wisses, a seasonedprofessional with over 20-year
journey, blending her passionsfor health and education.
A racial equity consultant,black health and wellness
(00:26):
practitioner, educator andmentor, dr Felicia champions
critical consciousness,emphasizing race as a social
construct.
Her work delves into thepersonal, interpersonal,
institutional and structuraldimensions of racial inequities,
with a special focus onunderstanding their impact on
the quality of our lives.
Beyond her role as a seniorfaculty and academic success
(00:49):
coach, dr Felicia's commitmentextends to disrupting systemic
racism in education.
As the founder and CEO of WellEquity Partners, she reexamined
her purpose during the pandemic,aiming her to utilize her
skills for conscious living andsoul healing, particularly
within Black communities.
Dr Felicia's work is groundedin creating meaningful
(01:11):
partnerships and fostering open,honest conversations about race
, education and well-being.
Welcome to the podcast, drFelicia.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Thank you so much.
I love to sit and hear my ownintroduction and I think we have
to get comfortable when we hearthe things about ourselves.
So it feels good, so it meansthat it's right.
But thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Absolutely.
There's so many pieces of yourwork and your interest that very
much align with mine, so I'mexcited for the conversation.
But before we get into yourwork, can you just tell us a
little bit about yourself?
Where are you from, where areyou currently and what are some
of the things that you'd like todo when you're not working?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Okay, so I am from Boston, mass, so I live in an
urban city, dorchester.
What I'd like to do?
I'd like to get into that.
I love to cook.
I'm a homebody.
I'm a professional at restingand self-care Like I love to.
(02:11):
If I'm going to rest right,I've got to do the whole
self-care routine the candle,the pajamas, the you know no
phone, like snacks, just chillout.
I'm a tea person, so I love mytea cup and all that good stuff,
so I'm good at resting andrelaxing.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Nice.
Okay, since you mentionedyou're a tea person, I have to
ask are you like a loose teaperson or are you a tea bag
person?
Because I feel like there'ssome tea snobs and I just want
to know are you, how far are youinto being a tea person?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So let me be honest as I raise my hand.
I am a tea snob.
The tea has to be brewed at aspecific temperature based off
of the kind of tea, right?
So black tea, green, it getsbrewed differently.
If I do tea bags, they'realways organic bags to make sure
there's no plastic inside ofthe tea bag.
(03:04):
But I also like loose tea.
Yeah, so I'm a connoisseur, butI am a tea snob, okay.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I knew about the different temperatures.
I had never really heard anyonetalk about the tea bag and
plastic, so you just put me ontosomething.
So I appreciate that so clearlyyou are interested and
passionate about health andwell-being, especially in the
black community.
How did you become interestedin the field of public health?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
My journey.
So I started off thinking I wasgoing to be a lawyer, because
I'm the person that always has avoice, want to speak for the
voiceless.
And then I got pregnant with myson.
I had him at 20.
And then I went to my firstdoctor's appointment and it
wasn't good.
They was looking at me as if Iwas another statistic, all the
(03:56):
biases that come with beingblack and young and female.
And I just remember then thatmoment that was the last time I
was going to ever feel like Iwasn't worthy enough or having a
negative bias on me, and youdon't even know me.
So I remember in thatappointment I said listen,
you're going to change your bodylanguage, you're going to sit
there, you're going to answer myquestions, and when I'm done,
(04:17):
that's when this meeting is over.
And then that moment I knewthat I'm still being a lawyer,
kind of.
But I did the switch, and sothat's how I started my journey
in healthcare.
I continued on whether Istarted off as a medical
assistant, worked my way up tobeing a nurse.
I thought I wanted to be anurse practitioner.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And then at.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
That point, I was just like I don't know.
I don't know if this is reallywhat I'm supposed to do, and so
I knew, as a young black woman,that my voice mattered, but I
also knew that the credentialsbehind this voice mattered as
well.
So that's when I decided thatwhen I look at public health, I
look at health, I look ateducation, I look at access, I
(05:00):
look at the systems, and so Ijust tied it all together, and
that's why I decided to dopublic health.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yes, and so you also decided to get a DRPH in public
health, so a doctorate in publichealth.
It's similar to the PhD In my.
I also have a public healthdoctorate degree.
I have a PhD, but in my programthere were some people who were
on the DRPH track and we tookessentially the same courses.
So they're very, very similar.
I'm curious why did you decideto pursue the DRPH as opposed to
(05:31):
the PhD?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, a lot of people asked me because they're like
I'm used to seeing a PhD.
I'm like, well, phd is usuallyresearch based, right, and when
you get into the DRPH it justmeans that I'm a practitioner,
so I'm not just sitting behindthe research, I'm actually out
there doing the work as apractitioner and then I
specialize in my track.
I want to do advocacy andleadership and then I did a few
(05:55):
other concentrations under that,so to be able to take all the
classes in public health.
But I did like the fact that Ican also specialize in a
particular track.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, I think that's something that I was, and be
it's just too strong of a word.
I found interesting about myDRPH colleagues when I was in
graduate.
It seemed as if, like theycould really formulate their
curriculum in a very unique andindividualized way, where, as
PhD folks, we had a much morelike stringent set of classes
(06:26):
that we had to take.
So that's really interesting.
So you kind of highlighted someof your work experience before
you started your doctoral degreeand I'm curious, what's that
like for you to move around andall of that more in regards, you
know, aside from wanting thecredentials to back up the
expertise that you already hadfrom being in the field, what
(06:49):
was the driving force?
Like, was there an inspirationin your personal life?
Was there a person who you knewhad a doctoral degree?
Like, what was really pushingyou?
What were some of the otherfactors?
I'm gonna put it that way whatwere some of the other factors
that were pushing you towardsgetting a doctoral degree?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Well, I'm actually the first person in my family to
have a doctorate degree.
I think I have been luckyenough, living in Boston,
working in a lot of thehealthcare organizations, to
come across a few more people ofcolor that was sitting with
doctoral degrees, and I knew.
I knew for a long time that Iwas going to continue my journey
(07:31):
, that the doctoral degree wasgoing to be my ultimate degree.
And I remember when I waspregnant with my son and I had
to tell my dad guess what babygirl's pregnant?
I remember him asking me sowhat are you going to do about
your education?
And I said I promise you thatI'm going to get not just one
(07:52):
degree, not two, but I'm gettingthree.
And he said, okay, and so we'regoing to support you on that
journey.
And so I always knew that I wasgoing to do it.
I was the kid that loved school,school came easy.
But I was also the kid that,even though I was talking a lot,
I had actually something to say.
So I already knew that that wasgoing to be my journey.
(08:16):
And then I think, the more Iread books, the more I expose
myself to black women and to seecertain women that had degrees.
So I had to look outside, moreso than my immediate circle, but
I knew that my ultimate goalwas always going to be a
doctoral degree, I think I wasjust not sure as to what path
(08:39):
that was going to be or whatarea.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Okay, okay.
So it seems as if, like at somepoint, you were open to the
idea because you talked aboutbeing a nurse practitioner.
There is a doctor I believe aDNP, a doctor of nurse
practitioner's degree.
So you knew you were going toget a doctorate in something.
You don't know what it wasgoing to be, but you were going
to get all the degrees in insomething.
So when you did decide topursue public health as the
(09:03):
field that you're going tospecialize in and get a doctoral
degree, and what were some ofthe things that led you to study
at Capella University, yeah,why did you decide that that was
the best program for you?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Okay, so clearly I'm not the traditional college
student and that's okay because,you know, the journeys can look
different.
I had gotten into MassGeneral's nursing program, the
NP program, there's practitionerprogram.
I was one of what I think itwas probably 72 kids, maybe I
(09:36):
mean students at the time, and Ithink, um, it was only me and
another woman of color, so wereally didn't see ourselves and
I remember, um, being in thatspace.
Maybe this is not for me, likeI wasn't.
I wasn't exactly sure if Iwanted to still continue to be a
nurse practitioner.
I started, if I'm honest, Istarted to question the system
(09:57):
that I was signing up for andfor me, because I'm very
intentional about whatever it isthat I do, I'm like I didn't
want to uphold this space, thisdegree, this career, if I was
still questioning certain thingsabout it.
So I think in that moment I wasreally going through my own
self-evaluation andunderstanding and I was like,
(10:18):
yes, there's a place fortraditional medicine, but I knew
that I also had a passion for,you know, alternative medicine,
and so how can I, you know, havethese in in the space?
And then, because I've alwaysworked in urban populations, I
was just so tired of just seeingor hearing, you know the high
risk of everything about usright and still not
(10:40):
understanding how to really dealwith us right and only looking
at um the chart to say, okay, soyou have this symptom, that, so
it must be this, and I'm likeno, no, no.
What about all the other thingsthat we hold in our bodies
historically right for manyyears, and systems of trauma
that we hold in our bodies ontop of everything else that has
(11:01):
accumulated over time?
So I knew that me just stayingin in health care traditionally
was not it.
And then I also knew that the,the rates of the black health of
especially women, is that itshould be a public health
concern.
And then how do we, you know,start really practicing and
(11:22):
implementing real education inorder for us to be advocates for
ourselves?
So, and look at all the pieces,to me public health made sense
because of you know the systemsand looking at the population of
the whole and and figuring outum ways that will improve right,
um, the, the big, the largergroup of people.
(11:43):
So I think that's what made mestart going into public health.
But, like you said, when itcomes to the research piece, you
don't have that option to kindof specialize in anything.
So I knew that I still wantedto be a practitioner, because
that's what the nurse comes in.
But I said, how can I createthis?
My way of taking, you know, thepublic health lens right
(12:03):
looking at everything thataffects the person and then
bringing in that piece that youknow systems try to forget about
, which they have implementedand continue to um, create.
Is that piece of of racialequity, right, health
disparities, all the things thatcome in there.
And to me, the public healthtook everything I wanted to do
and just put it into one.
(12:24):
So that's why I do publichealth.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, that's.
I love hearing you articulateyour story because it's so
similar to how I.
I was on the pre-med track.
My journey happened a littlebit earlier in my academic year
because I was in college when mylike medicine to public health
mind shift happened.
Uh, or mindset shift happened.
So you know, I remember being inmy like science classes and
(12:48):
just being like I don't careabout molecules, I don't care
about cells, I care about people, care about people and I care
about our people and I careabout the various disparities.
Why does it seem as if black,being black, is a risk factor
for everything?
All everything bad, um, and howdo we make sense of that?
And and how did that even like?
How did we get here?
(13:09):
And so I ended up kind of goingto history of public health
throughout, um, but it's there's.
I feel like there are so manyof us who we can address the
problem in different ways.
There's some of us who arecalled to be in the system, be
in the health care system,delivering health, um, and doing
that in a different way.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
And there's some of us who are called to study it so
we can try to make it betterfrom the outside yeah, and I
think because of my journey withhaving my son at the time and
still trying to navigate,propeller became an option for
me, because I know you asked whypropeller university?
And that during that time whenI did mine, um, that was the
(13:45):
only option I can do.
Why, still being a mom, stillworking, and I didn't think of a
point for my dreams.
And so I'm like, listen, Istill have to go and I'm gonna
go.
It might look different, but,um, it still takes a certain
kind of mindset to still doonline learning.
I always tell my students now,um, that if you want to learn,
(14:10):
it doesn't matter theenvironment.
You still have to do the workright.
And it takes more work when youare an online student because
you don't have nobody over yousaying, oh, you got to do this,
this deadline.
I remember those nights whereyou have to upload that paper by
11 59 pm or the system willshut you out.
So there was no like, oh, letme just turn this in late.
(14:32):
It was like, oh, it didn'taccept my paper.
Now, let me reach out to theprofessor.
So propeller worked for me inthat instance, I think because
of where I was at in my life andI still wanted to go to school
and I didn't want to just put myschooling on pause while I was
parenting.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, I appreciate you lifting that, because some
of the things that we've beentalking about recently in the
community there are a goodnumber of people in the
community who are also parentingwhile they are pursuing their
doctorate degree and that issuch a unique challenge.
It's one that I do not knowabout.
I got pregnant right at the endso I didn't like journey
through the degree with having akid but or any kid or children.
(15:15):
But one of the things thatwe've been talking about is that
doctoral programs arefundamentally not structured in
a way to support parents Likethey don't even imagine most of
them don't even fathom that thatstudents could also be
parenting.
So when you think about classtimes or accessibility or
childcare providing childcare aspart of the educational
(15:36):
experience it is so foreign andone of the statistics that I
have come across recently kindof just like researching about
our doctoral outcomes Blackwomen tend to be older when we
start doctoral programs and whenyou're older you tend you're
more likely to have children asyou age.
(15:56):
So I've just been thinkingreally intentionally about how
we, how institutions, can do abetter job of one recognizing
and then supporting parents,doctoral students who are
parents Because it's a veryunique like levels of problems.
I, now that I'm a mom, I'm likethere's no way I could have
(16:17):
done it.
So I champion and praise andjust like shout out everyone who
was able to go through aprogram also parenting, because
I don't know how y'all do it Iassume the second I got pregnant
I like emailed or like thesecond I, you know, I felt
comfortable sharing.
I emailed my advisor and I waslike, hey, I need to go now.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
It's a lot and the way the system is set up, right,
we're not really thought about,right?
If we keep that mindset of thisthe the traditional student
Then we're going to stay stuck,because what does the
traditional student really looklike, especially now and when we
stick to traditions a lot?
It affects the woman more thananybody.
(17:03):
And then let's add race into it, right, it affects the black
woman at higher rates.
Right.
So we have to be very mindfulof how can we still be on our
educational journey right andstill be able to compare it and
take care of life?
Right, we're life and right,yeah.
And so how?
And I think because of myexperience, because of
(17:28):
understanding the importance ofnon excuse me, non traditional
systems and what non traditionalRight?
I think that's why I make surethat I spend time or working
spaces for adult learners,because it's important to that
we do exist.
There's more of us than everand that who says I start our
(17:52):
journey has to stop.
I tell my students who areadult learners your journey was
just on pause, and when youterminology, it doesn't mean
that you can't, that you knowthat you won't.
It just means that you're juston pause right now and that's
okay.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, I love that terminology.
I'm in phrasing because you'reright.
I think that institutions liketalk about the fact that the
traditional student has changed,but actually haven't changed
their systems and theirpractices and their structures.
So accommodate the changingface of like what it means to be
a student.
So I love that you arechampioning and pouring into
(18:30):
adult learners across thespectrum of the different work
that you do.
What were some of the highestpoints of your doctoral journey
and what were some of the lowest?
So like maybe one or twosuccesses and one or two really
big challenges, we love to kindof ask who's the balance?
So we love to ask you toreflect on a really positive
element and then something thatyou overcame.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Okay.
So I'm going to be honest, mostof my experience Was amazing,
and I say that because I knowthis process can be so daunting.
So did I have a challenge?
Absolutely I did.
I'm going to say the good partabout it.
The good part about it was Iknew the support I put in place
(19:23):
around me in order to start theprocess.
At first, there was two words,starting with s, that mattered
to me, and it was support.
Selfishness, because everyone'slike what do you mean, you know,
by selfishness.
And then the success piece, theself care, the other stuff that
(19:46):
comes after, and what I mean bythat is when I was thinking
about my journey, I had to makesure I had support, because I
had a small kid, I still had totry to figure out how to do this
and go, so I had that supportsystem.
So that part was positive.
The sad part to that is that weI lost people along the way,
right, because then that's thatbig piece that I'm noticing when
(20:07):
I'm mentoring women that are inthe doctoral process is, oh my
gosh, the relationship that Ithought I had, and it's like as
you climb.
Sometimes people don'tunderstand that commitment,
because you got to be committedto this process and there's
going to be some people that arenot supposed to be a part of
the journey, right, and then youhave to kind of grieve that
(20:29):
loss of certain relationships.
So I think I only lost a few.
I didn't lose too many, so thatpart was good.
The selfishness was about memeaning I needed to, you know,
commit to this process to makesure that I am focused and in it
, so when it starts to get hardor difficult, that I know that
(20:51):
I'm capable and able, right.
And so that's the stuff I hadto do.
So certain people around me hadto support that and me and
making sure that my mindset wasgood.
And I do remember at some pointin that process, because of, I
think, what my topic was clearlyracial health disparities and
(21:13):
really getting into the historyof, there was someone on my
committee that wanted to changethe terminology that I was using
, right, because I wasn't usingAfrican American in minds, I was
saying black, and so it got tothe point of being like, oh, we
want to change this, change thisto African American and do this
(21:34):
and do that, and I was likehold up time out.
This is my dissertation.
You can correct me on.
You know, grandma, you know,did I do a run on that?
I cite something right, but youdo not get to change my story,
the context of how I'm tellingit and then how I'm choosing to
describe my population of choiceand the population that I
(21:57):
represent, which I'm using blackfor a reason.
And so in that moment I knewthat that semester was already
tough because I kept getting thepaper coming back, redo this,
redo, that I was like I'm notredoing nothing, so we need to
have a meeting because I'm notredoing it.
So I think in that moment,right, a little bit of like, am
I going to have to pause now?
(22:17):
Is this going to be a problem?
I knew that I needed to speakup then, because that's just
what I do, and even though I'min this system, I was not going
to sit back and let somebodyelse who was not of color
dictate to me with my researchwas going to be I'm the expert,
I'm the lived, experiencedperson, right, and so?
that was our time was justsaying true to what I wanted to
(22:41):
commit myself to and be willingto deal with the aftermath that
could have happened.
And then the good part about itis another good piece I should
say is that at the end of it,when I did have to defend
afterwards, everyone on thecommittee had said this is the
first time that we don't have aquestion of anybody that we ever
(23:04):
, you know, sat on the committeefor, and I said okay, and they
said we just wanna say continueto lead, continue to be, you
know, open and honest, continueto say what you gotta say, and
congratulations, dr FeliciaAlbert.
So in that process, because ofthe support right that I had,
(23:26):
and then my mindset, and then myselfishness, but in a positive
way, to say I gotta focus onthis, I gotta do this.
And then, knowing the power ofmy voice, and in that moment I
said if I let them change mythinking and my writing, then
they will, they will continue tobe able to do that, whoever the
days are right.
And so I said, no, I'm anexpert and I'm gonna start being
(23:48):
an expert now.
And so that was the only smallpiece.
Now.
It sounds amazing right now,but trust me in the process.
I'm tired.
If you've seen that paper backone more time telling me I gotta
rewrite it or do something, Iwas just like.
I was just through.
I was just like what are youdoing this?
So yeah, that's the way to dothat.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yes, something that I think that I have noticed as a
trend and this is all justanecdotal evidence, but now that
I've spoken to maybe like 70, Ithink we're up to like 70,
black women and non-binary folkswith doctoral degrees, I feel
like a trend has emerged wherepeople who have worked before
(24:31):
they do their doctoral degreeregardless of their age when
they start, but they havesubstantial work experience they
seem to be a bit more confidentabout themselves as an expert,
and one of the things that Ireally struggled with is I did
not have that confidence.
I also it's so funny I hadadvisors who were like, or
(24:51):
people on my committee who alsowanted me to use
African-American instead ofBlack, and I had to write I'm
remembering I can like see it onthe page the portion of my
dissertation, like the threeparagraphs that I had to insert
in order to explain why I wasusing the word Black and why I
was capitalizing the word Blackat that.
But I didn't have thatconfidence.
(25:12):
I didn't have that confidenceto feel like I actually like
know what I'm doing, so I'm notgonna push back, and I think
that part of that comes withmaturity as well, as when you
are working like you know you'reresponsible for a whole thing,
so you know that you are theexpert at your task with the
specific thing you do for work,and I think that that power
(25:34):
dynamic that exists in academiais a little bit easier for folks
who have a bit more workexperience to navigate than it
is for folks who don't so, and Ithink that that's something
that's come up so far.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yes, I fully agree, I do, I think so I think we come
in just with a little bit morelike.
No, I have a little bit morefoot in this area and, I think,
my nursing piece, because I wasnursing for, like you know,
close to like 10 years at thetime.
So I know my stuff and you'renot gonna make me change it in
(26:07):
my head, but I've always beenthat person.
My parents always told me whenI was small I was like that I'm
like well, why Like, why I gotto do anything?
I can be anything.
So it shows up.
And I was like in that moment,we're not doing it, because this
is the beginning of me being anexpert being an expert, excuse
me and standing on my platformright and being rooted and solid
(26:30):
into what I believe.
And so to me, that was thebeginning.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, yes, awesome.
So now let us transition to.
You're finishing up yourdoctoral degree you're about to
defend.
How are you thinking about yournext steps?
Because you were workingthroughout your degree, did you
like?
As soon as you got your degree,did you get a new job?
Did you strategize beforehand?
How did you kind of pivot fromDr Felissa, who doesn't have a
(26:58):
doctoral degree and is working?
Speaker 3 (26:59):
to Dr Felissa who has a.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
You know it is now going to work Like what was that
shift for you?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I think the shift it was not quick for me.
It wasn't like I went rightinto a doctoral position like
the next day, likecongratulations, great.
Now I'm working on this area, Ithink for me I like to be
present in everything thathappens in my life and don't
(27:28):
rush through.
And so because I was still, youknow, I had a great back end
still in nursing and healthcare,I was still teaching, so I
still felt I was still in a goodposition where I was not
rushing to get into anything.
(27:48):
I knew that in that moment Itook time to make sure that,
whatever space that I hold, thatI need to be true to myself.
I wanted to be true to myresearch right.
I wanted to be true as being ablack woman who has a doctorate.
And there's a difference withthat right Cause I wasn't
(28:10):
leading with my ego now that Ihave a doctorate, like oh.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
I'm here I have a ride.
I'm like I had arrived before,right.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
So I was very grateful of that and I was very
mindful of not being used nowbecause I do have the letters.
So, minds, I think I wasmindful in everything I did, but
because I was already teaching,it was an easy thing to say
okay, well, now you just gottaadd doctor to your name, since
(28:39):
you're already teaching at thispoint, and then I was already
consulting.
So I think because I was doinga few things before I got the
doctorate, that I just added onto it.
And then I think I became alittle bit more intentional
about certain areas that I wasgoing to speak in or team up
with, more so than ever.
(29:01):
So I think I was more cautiousand conscious once I got mine.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Okay, interesting.
I'm gonna ask a question superout of left field, but it's on
my mind for a reason that Iwon't get into right now.
But since you are alreadyworking, you already not just
working, you were alreadyteaching and consulting, which
are two lines of work that a lotof people with doctoral degrees
hope to get into.
When they start Like beforethey even start people often
(29:28):
envision either I wanna teach orI wanna do independent research
and do independent consulting.
I'm curious and if you don'twanna answer this, we will just
completely wipe it but I'mcurious did you, did you and, if
so, at what point?
Did you re-conceptualize yoursalary expectations for your
(29:49):
teaching job as well as yourconsulting rates with the
additional letters?
And why I'm asking this isbecause I've also been reading
lately.
I've been doing a lot ofresearch lately, but I came
across a statistic lately aboutthe additional earned potential
earning potential.
I came across a statisticrecently about the additional
earning potential of people withdoctoral degrees, but in the
(30:11):
fine print realized that earningpotential the additional
million dollars over ourlifetime doesn't apply to black
women, and so I feel likethere's this idea that a lot of
us have that I'm going to get adegree and it's going to help me
earn more, and I'm just curioushow that played out for your
life.
If that was immediate and ifthat was an internal decision,
(30:33):
if there were external forces, Iwould love if you could
possibly speak to that.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I love that the question came out of left field.
Real conversations bring upreal moments of like.
Let me ask and when I said Iwas going to be here, I'm fully
here, so I'm going to answer anyand everything that comes out
of left field.
I think, yeah, we do think thismoney's going to come right in
(30:59):
and I'm going to be able to getthis, and in my experience that
has not been the case.
It is still to me taking timeto really say okay.
So the numbers are now huge,right as far as the pay, I think
what I had to do, I weighed.
(31:20):
Did I want the moneyimmediately because, living in
Boston, you know we are themecca of education, health,
we're here.
So I had the way.
Did I want to fit in?
Do I believe in what you'reselling in order for me to get
(31:40):
my money?
Or am I going to work someplacethat, yes, I know it's not the
high pay as this other eliteinstitution, but am I able to
stay true to myself?
Am I able to make sure that Iam being the change and
providing the service that Isaid I wanted to provide and not
(32:04):
outside what people think Ishould be doing?
And then how can I turn aroundand start consulting and start
building to start making youknow the money, right?
So for me, I feel like I had toput this in my head and this is
just me no place, no job, no,nothing is ever going to pay me
(32:26):
my work, right, because I'm notgoing to be bought, but I still
have to pay my bills and you'renot going to disrespect me with
your pay, right?
And so sometimes I think, for me, in the beginning, I was like,
okay, I got to do this and nowlet me get this side job and do
this in order to try to stillmake you know some money.
And that's still where I'm at,where I'm at now.
(32:48):
To be honest, like I'm, I'mstill like not where I really
want to be, but I'm not doingthat.
And so I think, as time move onis having the conversations
about how can we really, youknow, hire each other, right,
because we know that as I lookat some contracts and I'm like,
wow, you willing to pay themthat, but you want to nickel and
(33:11):
dime me and you know we're notdoing that.
So, right, so we still got alot of work to do with our own
group as to bringing us in andpaying us, but no, it was not
the money that I thought I wasgoing to be making when I came
out.
Absolutely not.
But I just have figured out howcan I still have both worlds and
(33:33):
continue to grow.
Hence the reason why I startedputting more time into my
company, so I can start fillingthe gaps.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Did I answer the question?
You absolutely didn't.
I really appreciate thetransparency.
I feel the same way in that Ithought I just like thought
immediately that getting adoctor degree meant that you
would now be a six figure earner, and it's just like not not at
all the case.
I don't know why I thought thatand like where I got that idea
(34:03):
from it.
I really just like thought thatthat would go me my life
afterwards.
But I also appreciate your thewords that you shared about not
being disrespected by the paybut also knowing I kind of
phrase it like you know thatnothing is ever going to pay
your worth because you don'thave to be bought, and I just
love that phrasing love, love,love.
(34:23):
So you started to talk aboutyour consulting work and so I
wanted to ask you about wellequity partners.
So you founded this during thepandemic and it seems like you
kind of had like a aha moment.
How do you envision well equitycontributing to wellness,
conscious living and soulhealing, specifically for black
(34:45):
communities?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I know just the words I choose right now.
It's funny because well equity,yes, came during the pandemic
before.
Well equity what I've beenconsulting since 2000 and I
think nine or something alongthe way, with me doing racial
equity work, especially why myson was in independent schools
(35:09):
trying to navigate that system,and so I was like the whole
racial equity education we'renot having that with my young
black male, you are not going todo a lot of the things.
And so that's when I reallystarted consulting and getting
paid to come in to do things atvarious places.
But my first company was namedvisionary consulting group and
(35:33):
so that's where we kind ofstayed into that area and I knew
at some point I was going to goback to or pull more in on the
women's health side, right?
So I'm still the person thattreads lightly with accepting a
(35:54):
lot of like jobs.
And can you consult?
Can you consult?
Can you consult?
I'm like no, I got to check inwith myself and myself care to
see if I can take that on.
And so I think during thepandemic I'm looking at the
totality of everything, right,not just COVID itself, but what
COVID actually represented, whatit brought to the surface.
(36:17):
Now you should tell everybodydo not waste this time, because
even though the time was so darkand blue, there was still a
reason for it and there wasstill a message that hopefully a
lot of us was getting out of it.
And that is to self evaluate.
Look at things.
Are you where you want to be,where you trying to go?
But to me, more importantly wasthe health, and not just the
(36:40):
physical piece, but theemotional, the mental piece, and
even though we've already beenstruggling at large numbers but
COVID just magnifies some things.
And so that's when I said, okay, it's time to do a shift and
kind of now create this platform.
That when you pull up mywebsite, you know that I'm a
(37:04):
proud black woman.
Everything about it reapsblackness, right Reaps, I am my
sister's keeper, kind of thing.
And then the importance ofcentering ourselves and
everything that we do Duringthat time.
We know that black women washit very hard.
(37:24):
Whether you was in theworkplace, you had to stop
working and stop back.
You know watching the kids,whether we're single moms and
you know, you know lost jobs andyou're trying to figure out
what I'm supposed to do at homewith these kids and they still
trying to learn, like the listgoes on.
But as always, it affects thewoman first, and then
specifically the black woman.
And so how do we still come outof this right and get on the
(37:47):
other side of it?
And then the anxiety andeverything.
So that's what made me reallylook at well, equity, how can I
bring both of my worlds togetherand really be intentional?
And so during that time I'mlike I've worked with a few
people.
I brought some more people liketo partner with me to make sure
(38:08):
that.
You know, I don't like to usewords just because they common
words like yeah, we want to doholistic this and that, but when
you look at people's systemsand structure, it's not holistic
.
And so for me I was like, okay,so I have my educational coach,
my education leadership coach,I have my license clinical
(38:29):
social worker, you have me withthe other background of the
health and then still witheducation and racial equity, and
bring it all together to sayhow can we show up and do the
work and then continue topartner with others that are not
scared I'm going to say scaredor maybe have gotten comfortable
(38:52):
with doing things based off ofwhat the organization wants them
to do and to make sure that westay comfortable while doing it.
And so we are at a point, nowmore than ever, that we have to
(39:12):
stand on our beliefs, we have tolead boldly right and we have
to be honest about the truth.
And until we do that right,it's still going to look the
same, and so I knew that thepeople around me understood me
and understood my mission andwhat I wanted to do, and so I
feel like this was the best timeto have the real hard
(39:35):
conversations that people didn'twant to have.
And at the end of the day, weknow that all the isms that we
deal with, all the disparitiesthat we deal with, is that race
is at the root of it, and whenwe choose to go outside of that,
that's what we still stay inthat circle.
So I know you talked aboutracial equity.
(39:57):
We kind of been in the sameworld, so we know that.
You know race is at the center,and then what intersects race
right, and then we can look atall the pieces that go.
But if we stay scared with thisrace piece, then you know we're
going to sit back still dealingwith anxiety and depression,
and I can't change this system,and you know all the stuff that
(40:19):
we want to happen.
So I think for me, well, equityallows us to deal with the
person and give them power tosay what can you do, what can
you change?
So for me, I always tell people, in whatever space I hold, I'm
free in my space.
And I'm like, what do you meanyou're free?
I said no, I'm free becauseit's a mindset first right, and
(40:42):
then I show up to like who Ireally am.
I don't code switch.
You all know that I'm a blackwoman, not just a woman, so
don't tell me that you don't seemy color, because you do.
But then when I'm in that space,I let those know that any form
of racism, ism will not happenon my watch when I'm in the
(41:05):
space.
And the person that knows meknows that if you in a room with
Dr Felicia, the littlemicroaggressions,
macroaggressions, something thatyou say that you're like, oh my
gosh, did I really offend or Ididn't know, it's not happening
on my watch.
And so to me that has nothingto do with the bigger system and
fighting that battle.
(41:25):
I'm talking about what Icontrol and how I show up in the
space, right, and so the morewe do that and have ownership
right and accountability.
So I put in the energy ofmyself and what I can control.
So I'm like, whatever space Ihold and share, I'm going to be
authentic, I'm going to be true,and it's just not going to
happen on my watch, and I'mmaking sure that when my black
(41:48):
women are not in the room, thenI'm supporting them as if you
was in the room, and so that'swhat I've been really focused on
, and to me, that's the wellequity piece, while at the same
time making sure that you aregood, right, deep down, like,
and that you are conscious.
Right, because we're in thesespaces and we're not conscious
(42:09):
as much as we think that we areright.
And so I try to make sure thatwe're conscious and really
looking at real things so we canjust get better and take care
of ourselves, because there's alot of depression, anxiety, like
all the things now more thanever.
But we're holding these degreesthough, right, so I always say
(42:29):
at what cost?
Right, so we have to starttaking care of ourselves better
so we can have both.
Right, I can, I can still behealthy, but I can be healthy,
dr Felicia, at the same time.
Right, how do we do that right,and so that's why I'm so
passionate about well equity.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yes, you're speaking all of my languages.
I something I really appreciatethat you kind of highlighted in
the effort to do to makesystematic change around racial
equity.
I do think that we often ignoreor kind of like glance over the
individual, kind of like racial, racialized interaction with
(43:10):
people have.
I really appreciate that youwere like will we not gonna do
in this here is any kind of oh Ididn't know, like where does
not going to?
I really appreciate that I feellike sometimes in in big
corporations, even maybe likesmaller companies, we get so
focused on like the, we'retrying to undo our principles
(43:30):
and our practices and we'relooking at our policies and how
to be anti racist on ourpolicies, but it's like okay,
you can be anti racist on paper,but like other day to day
interaction, what are we doing?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
I'm so glad you said that and I just need to jump in
there, because when we reallystart removing it from the
systems right, don't get mewrong.
Right, we got to pay attentionto that too, but we all can't be
doing the same thing, right,we're needed in all areas.
So people need to pick the arearight and say this is going to
(44:04):
be the area I'm, a focus, andit's not trying to fix
everything, because I believethat when we're doing our work
in purpose, right, that we willfocus on that area.
So I know what my area is.
I'm on the frontline, right,I'm that one.
I'm more like the Renaissancekind of person.
I'm on the frontline, I'm inyour face.
This is what we.
You know I'm power, and thenthose that want to be like okay,
(44:26):
so we're going to deal with the.
You know the policies.
So there's so many systems, butin the midst of that, my job is
I want to make sure that you arehere to see the.
You know the benefits of whatyou put in.
I want to make sure that youknow that you're here longer.
I want to make sure that youare whole and present in
conscious.
Right.
(44:47):
In the midst of that, we cancontinue to get all these
positions and do this work, butI keep saying, but at what cost?
Because there is a cost Ialways say I'm not going to pay
with my mental health myselfcare, none of that.
I'm not paying that cost tothat.
So that's why I say I'm able toshow up with the energy of
(45:08):
being free and showing what thatlooks like while I'm still
doing my work and still be ableto rest at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
I love that and I think so many of us need to hear
that, whether we are, wealready have our doctoral
degrees and we I feel like wecan't not do racial equity works
like all of we have to.
There's no choice, I mean,because at some point it is a
burden that is unfortunatelyplaced on us by our existence as
(45:40):
black women, so it's aresponsibility, I mean.
I use the word burden, but Ithink where, wherever people are
on their journey, whetherthey're current grad student or
they're already finished, thereis.
We are living in a time wherethere are so many different
pressures, like like neverbefore, and it is a paramount
importance for us to take careof ourselves, because it's not
(46:01):
worth it as you have reminded us, it ain't worth it to do the
work if you're not here to reapthe benefits, and there's so
many, you know, there's so manystories of us crumbling under
the weight of the world becausewe're not taking care of
ourselves, or because we haveunderlying health conditions and
we're not getting medical careand medical treatment, or
whether they're mental healthconditions or or otherwise.
(46:24):
So I appreciate you bringingall of this to the forefront and
I'm excited for folks to hearthis and remind themselves that
they need to be selfish.
I'm just using that word alittle bit more in my life.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
You know, as a mom, all that stuff like you still
have to prioritize you.
I tell people nobody loved memore than I love me.
I love me, some me, and I showthat myself.
Would I say yes to the spacesthat I'm in and then the people
around me get to reap thebenefits of that, of me being
(46:59):
whole and happy and rooted incenter?
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yes, so so good.
So I'm curious what is onething that you would do
differently If you had to doyour doctoral degree all over
again for some strange, weirdreason?
What is one thing that youwould do differently?
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Maybe I would have connected an outside piece to it
, more outside what can I say?
I think an outside mentor,because I'm gonna be honest with
my journey.
(47:39):
I remember when I first talkedabout getting it, I was at an
event and I remember clearlythis black woman said to me oh,
you're married.
And I said yeah, and she said,well, you might lose your
marriage behind this becauseit's a lot of work.
And I was like lies, You're notspeaking that into me or not?
And so I remember me saying,okay, so let me just keep my
(48:02):
little group that I have aroundme and I can do it.
Because I didn't have that, thatthat full blown black woman
mentor to guide me through thatprocess.
If I could, if I could have hadthat, I think that would have
been great, and not just for anyblack woman, clearly, right,
because she just told me that mymarriage wasn't gonna last.
(48:24):
So it has to be somebody thatis positive, confident that this
is possible while managingother things, right?
So if I could have had that,that would have been that would
have been nice.
Now, I got that when I wasalmost done.
You know a couple of mentors atthat point but in the beginning
(48:46):
I didn't have that.
So I think, because I didn'thave that, that's why I want to
be that Right.
Yeah, that's the importance ofthat piece, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Same same same did own to it all.
And then, finally, what is onepiece of advice, just one piece
of advice that you have forcurrent or prospective black
women and non binary doctoralstudents?
Speaker 2 (49:11):
All this is big for me is to be present.
Good, bad, the tough times youtie the right in, you are
stressed, the voice is sayingyou can't do it.
Still be present in that wholeprocess.
Do not check out.
I can say when it got tough, Iwas still present with that
because that made me stronger.
(49:33):
Right, that is something that Ican now apply and be able to
share with others when they'rein that space.
Right, I think that whatever wego through, this reason and
purpose behind it we might notknow in the moment, but it
matters later and when you areconscious, you're able to get on
the other side of that tounderstand why it to go through
(49:55):
that.
So I think me, because I amconscious, like that, I can
always say there's nothing aboutthat process that I do not
respect.
That happened with me, to me,for me, because it was nothing
but growth.
So be present.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Thank you so much, dr Felicia, for that amazing piece
of advice and great remindersto be present to put ourselves
first, to dream big, to makesure you collaborate with other
people.
We didn't have time to get intoI wanted to yeah, we didn't
have time to talk about your,the way that you collaborate
with others and your consultingwork, but I want to highlight
that for folks who may havemissed that part, thank you.
(50:36):
But thank you so much forjoining us on the cohort.
This is podcast and sharingyour story or journey, and you
are continuing to do the workevery single day and we
celebrate you for that and thankyou for that.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Thank you, it was worth every bit of it.
Continue to do great work.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Thank you so much for listening to this week's
episode of the cohort sisterspodcast.
If you are a black womaninterested in joining the cohort
sisters membership community oryou're looking for more
information on how to support orpartner with cohort sisters,
please visit our website atwwwcohortcistascom.
You can also find us on allsocial media platforms at cohort
(51:23):
sisters.
Don't forget to subscribe tothe cohort sisters podcast and
leave us a quick review whereveryou're listening.
Thank you so much for joiningus this week and we'll catch you
in next week's episode.
Welcome to the Cohort Sisters podcast, where we give
voice to the stories, strugglesand successes of Black women and
non-binary people with doctoraldegrees.
I'm your host, dr Yajma Koala,and today we have Dr Felicia
Albert-Wisses, a seasonedprofessional with over 20-year
journey, blending her passionsfor health and education.
A racial equity consultant,black health and wellness
(00:26):
practitioner, educator andmentor, dr Felicia champions
critical consciousness,emphasizing race as a social
construct.
Her work delves into thepersonal, interpersonal,
institutional and structuraldimensions of racial inequities,
with a special focus onunderstanding their impact on
the quality of our lives.
Beyond her role as a seniorfaculty and academic success
(00:49):
coach, dr Felicia's commitmentextends to disrupting systemic
racism in education.
As the founder and CEO of WellEquity Partners, she reexamined
her purpose during the pandemic,aiming her to utilize her
skills for conscious living andsoul healing, particularly
within Black communities.
Dr Felicia's work is groundedin creating meaningful
(01:11):
partnerships and fostering open,honest conversations about race
, education and well-being.
Welcome to the podcast, drFelicia.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Thank you so much.
I love to sit and hear my ownintroduction and I think we have
to get comfortable when we hearthe things about ourselves.
So it feels good, so it meansthat it's right.
But thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Absolutely.
There's so many pieces of yourwork and your interest that very
much align with mine, so I'mexcited for the conversation.
But before we get into yourwork, can you just tell us a
little bit about yourself?
Where are you from, where areyou currently and what are some
of the things that you'd like todo when you're not working?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Okay, so I am from Boston, mass, so I live in an
urban city, dorchester.
What I'd like to do?
I'd like to get into that.
I love to cook.
I'm a homebody.
I'm a professional at restingand self-care Like I love to.
(02:11):
If I'm going to rest right,I've got to do the whole
self-care routine the candle,the pajamas, the you know no
phone, like snacks, just chillout.
I'm a tea person, so I love mytea cup and all that good stuff,
so I'm good at resting andrelaxing.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Nice.
Okay, since you mentionedyou're a tea person, I have to
ask are you like a loose teaperson or are you a tea bag
person?
Because I feel like there'ssome tea snobs and I just want
to know are you, how far are youinto being a tea person?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So let me be honest as I raise my hand.
I am a tea snob.
The tea has to be brewed at aspecific temperature based off
of the kind of tea, right?
So black tea, green, it getsbrewed differently.
If I do tea bags, they'realways organic bags to make sure
there's no plastic inside ofthe tea bag.
(03:04):
But I also like loose tea.
Yeah, so I'm a connoisseur, butI am a tea snob, okay.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I knew about the different temperatures.
I had never really heard anyonetalk about the tea bag and
plastic, so you just put me ontosomething.
So I appreciate that so clearlyyou are interested and
passionate about health andwell-being, especially in the
black community.
How did you become interestedin the field of public health?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
My journey.
So I started off thinking I wasgoing to be a lawyer, because
I'm the person that always has avoice, want to speak for the
voiceless.
And then I got pregnant with myson.
I had him at 20.
And then I went to my firstdoctor's appointment and it
wasn't good.
They was looking at me as if Iwas another statistic, all the
(03:56):
biases that come with beingblack and young and female.
And I just remember then thatmoment that was the last time I
was going to ever feel like Iwasn't worthy enough or having a
negative bias on me, and youdon't even know me.
So I remember in thatappointment I said listen,
you're going to change your bodylanguage, you're going to sit
there, you're going to answer myquestions, and when I'm done,
(04:17):
that's when this meeting is over.
And then that moment I knewthat I'm still being a lawyer,
kind of.
But I did the switch, and sothat's how I started my journey
in healthcare.
I continued on whether Istarted off as a medical
assistant, worked my way up tobeing a nurse.
I thought I wanted to be anurse practitioner.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And then at.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
That point, I was just like I don't know.
I don't know if this is reallywhat I'm supposed to do, and so
I knew, as a young black woman,that my voice mattered, but I
also knew that the credentialsbehind this voice mattered as
well.
So that's when I decided thatwhen I look at public health, I
look at health, I look ateducation, I look at access, I
(05:00):
look at the systems, and so Ijust tied it all together, and
that's why I decided to dopublic health.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yes, and so you also decided to get a DRPH in public
health, so a doctorate in publichealth.
It's similar to the PhD In my.
I also have a public healthdoctorate degree.
I have a PhD, but in my programthere were some people who were
on the DRPH track and we tookessentially the same courses.
So they're very, very similar.
I'm curious why did you decideto pursue the DRPH as opposed to
(05:31):
the PhD?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, a lot of people asked me because they're like
I'm used to seeing a PhD.
I'm like, well, phd is usuallyresearch based, right, and when
you get into the DRPH it justmeans that I'm a practitioner,
so I'm not just sitting behindthe research, I'm actually out
there doing the work as apractitioner and then I
specialize in my track.
I want to do advocacy andleadership and then I did a few
(05:55):
other concentrations under that,so to be able to take all the
classes in public health.
But I did like the fact that Ican also specialize in a
particular track.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, I think that's something that I was, and be
it's just too strong of a word.
I found interesting about myDRPH colleagues when I was in
graduate.
It seemed as if, like theycould really formulate their
curriculum in a very unique andindividualized way, where, as
PhD folks, we had a much morelike stringent set of classes
(06:26):
that we had to take.
So that's really interesting.
So you kind of highlighted someof your work experience before
you started your doctoral degreeand I'm curious, what's that
like for you to move around andall of that more in regards, you
know, aside from wanting thecredentials to back up the
expertise that you already hadfrom being in the field, what
(06:49):
was the driving force?
Like, was there an inspirationin your personal life?
Was there a person who you knewhad a doctoral degree?
Like, what was really pushingyou?
What were some of the otherfactors?
I'm gonna put it that way whatwere some of the other factors
that were pushing you towardsgetting a doctoral degree?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Well, I'm actually the first person in my family to
have a doctorate degree.
I think I have been luckyenough, living in Boston,
working in a lot of thehealthcare organizations, to
come across a few more people ofcolor that was sitting with
doctoral degrees, and I knew.
I knew for a long time that Iwas going to continue my journey
(07:31):
, that the doctoral degree wasgoing to be my ultimate degree.
And I remember when I waspregnant with my son and I had
to tell my dad guess what babygirl's pregnant?
I remember him asking me sowhat are you going to do about
your education?
And I said I promise you thatI'm going to get not just one
(07:52):
degree, not two, but I'm gettingthree.
And he said, okay, and so we'regoing to support you on that
journey.
And so I always knew that I wasgoing to do it.
I was the kid that loved school,school came easy.
But I was also the kid that,even though I was talking a lot,
I had actually something to say.
So I already knew that that wasgoing to be my journey.
(08:16):
And then I think, the more Iread books, the more I expose
myself to black women and to seecertain women that had degrees.
So I had to look outside, moreso than my immediate circle, but
I knew that my ultimate goalwas always going to be a
doctoral degree, I think I wasjust not sure as to what path
(08:39):
that was going to be or whatarea.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Okay, okay.
So it seems as if, like at somepoint, you were open to the
idea because you talked aboutbeing a nurse practitioner.
There is a doctor I believe aDNP, a doctor of nurse
practitioner's degree.
So you knew you were going toget a doctorate in something.
You don't know what it wasgoing to be, but you were going
to get all the degrees in insomething.
So when you did decide topursue public health as the
(09:03):
field that you're going tospecialize in and get a doctoral
degree, and what were some ofthe things that led you to study
at Capella University, yeah,why did you decide that that was
the best program for you?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Okay, so clearly I'm not the traditional college
student and that's okay because,you know, the journeys can look
different.
I had gotten into MassGeneral's nursing program, the
NP program, there's practitionerprogram.
I was one of what I think itwas probably 72 kids, maybe I
(09:36):
mean students at the time, and Ithink, um, it was only me and
another woman of color, so wereally didn't see ourselves and
I remember, um, being in thatspace.
Maybe this is not for me, likeI wasn't.
I wasn't exactly sure if Iwanted to still continue to be a
nurse practitioner.
I started, if I'm honest, Istarted to question the system
(09:57):
that I was signing up for andfor me, because I'm very
intentional about whatever it isthat I do, I'm like I didn't
want to uphold this space, thisdegree, this career, if I was
still questioning certain thingsabout it.
So I think in that moment I wasreally going through my own
self-evaluation andunderstanding and I was like,
(10:18):
yes, there's a place fortraditional medicine, but I knew
that I also had a passion for,you know, alternative medicine,
and so how can I, you know, havethese in in the space?
And then, because I've alwaysworked in urban populations, I
was just so tired of just seeingor hearing, you know the high
risk of everything about usright and still not
(10:40):
understanding how to really dealwith us right and only looking
at um the chart to say, okay, soyou have this symptom, that, so
it must be this, and I'm likeno, no, no.
What about all the other thingsthat we hold in our bodies
historically right for manyyears, and systems of trauma
that we hold in our bodies ontop of everything else that has
(11:01):
accumulated over time?
So I knew that me just stayingin in health care traditionally
was not it.
And then I also knew that the,the rates of the black health of
especially women, is that itshould be a public health
concern.
And then how do we, you know,start really practicing and
(11:22):
implementing real education inorder for us to be advocates for
ourselves?
So, and look at all the pieces,to me public health made sense
because of you know the systemsand looking at the population of
the whole and and figuring outum ways that will improve right,
um, the, the big, the largergroup of people.
(11:43):
So I think that's what made mestart going into public health.
But, like you said, when itcomes to the research piece, you
don't have that option to kindof specialize in anything.
So I knew that I still wantedto be a practitioner, because
that's what the nurse comes in.
But I said, how can I createthis?
My way of taking, you know, thepublic health lens right
(12:03):
looking at everything thataffects the person and then
bringing in that piece that youknow systems try to forget about
, which they have implementedand continue to um, create.
Is that piece of of racialequity, right, health
disparities, all the things thatcome in there.
And to me, the public healthtook everything I wanted to do
and just put it into one.
(12:24):
So that's why I do publichealth.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, that's.
I love hearing you articulateyour story because it's so
similar to how I.
I was on the pre-med track.
My journey happened a littlebit earlier in my academic year
because I was in college when mylike medicine to public health
mind shift happened.
Uh, or mindset shift happened.
So you know, I remember being inmy like science classes and
(12:48):
just being like I don't careabout molecules, I don't care
about cells, I care about people, care about people and I care
about our people and I careabout the various disparities.
Why does it seem as if black,being black, is a risk factor
for everything?
All everything bad, um, and howdo we make sense of that?
And and how did that even like?
How did we get here?
(13:09):
And so I ended up kind of goingto history of public health
throughout, um, but it's there's.
I feel like there are so manyof us who we can address the
problem in different ways.
There's some of us who arecalled to be in the system, be
in the health care system,delivering health, um, and doing
that in a different way.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
And there's some of us who are called to study it so
we can try to make it betterfrom the outside yeah, and I
think because of my journey withhaving my son at the time and
still trying to navigate,propeller became an option for
me, because I know you asked whypropeller university?
And that during that time whenI did mine, um, that was the
(13:45):
only option I can do.
Why, still being a mom, stillworking, and I didn't think of a
point for my dreams.
And so I'm like, listen, Istill have to go and I'm gonna
go.
It might look different, but,um, it still takes a certain
kind of mindset to still doonline learning.
I always tell my students now,um, that if you want to learn,
(14:10):
it doesn't matter theenvironment.
You still have to do the workright.
And it takes more work when youare an online student because
you don't have nobody over yousaying, oh, you got to do this,
this deadline.
I remember those nights whereyou have to upload that paper by
11 59 pm or the system willshut you out.
So there was no like, oh, letme just turn this in late.
(14:32):
It was like, oh, it didn'taccept my paper.
Now, let me reach out to theprofessor.
So propeller worked for me inthat instance, I think because
of where I was at in my life andI still wanted to go to school
and I didn't want to just put myschooling on pause while I was
parenting.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, I appreciate you lifting that, because some
of the things that we've beentalking about recently in the
community there are a goodnumber of people in the
community who are also parentingwhile they are pursuing their
doctorate degree and that issuch a unique challenge.
It's one that I do not knowabout.
I got pregnant right at the endso I didn't like journey
through the degree with having akid but or any kid or children.
(15:15):
But one of the things thatwe've been talking about is that
doctoral programs arefundamentally not structured in
a way to support parents Likethey don't even imagine most of
them don't even fathom that thatstudents could also be
parenting.
So when you think about classtimes or accessibility or
childcare providing childcare aspart of the educational
(15:36):
experience it is so foreign andone of the statistics that I
have come across recently kindof just like researching about
our doctoral outcomes Blackwomen tend to be older when we
start doctoral programs and whenyou're older you tend you're
more likely to have children asyou age.
(15:56):
So I've just been thinkingreally intentionally about how
we, how institutions, can do abetter job of one recognizing
and then supporting parents,doctoral students who are
parents Because it's a veryunique like levels of problems.
I, now that I'm a mom, I'm likethere's no way I could have
(16:17):
done it.
So I champion and praise andjust like shout out everyone who
was able to go through aprogram also parenting, because
I don't know how y'all do it Iassume the second I got pregnant
I like emailed or like thesecond I, you know, I felt
comfortable sharing.
I emailed my advisor and I waslike, hey, I need to go now.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
It's a lot and the way the system is set up, right,
we're not really thought about,right?
If we keep that mindset of thisthe the traditional student
Then we're going to stay stuck,because what does the
traditional student really looklike, especially now and when we
stick to traditions a lot?
It affects the woman more thananybody.
(17:03):
And then let's add race into it, right, it affects the black
woman at higher rates.
Right.
So we have to be very mindfulof how can we still be on our
educational journey right andstill be able to compare it and
take care of life?
Right, we're life and right,yeah.
And so how?
And I think because of myexperience, because of
(17:28):
understanding the importance ofnon excuse me, non traditional
systems and what non traditionalRight?
I think that's why I make surethat I spend time or working
spaces for adult learners,because it's important to that
we do exist.
There's more of us than everand that who says I start our
(17:52):
journey has to stop.
I tell my students who areadult learners your journey was
just on pause, and when youterminology, it doesn't mean
that you can't, that you knowthat you won't.
It just means that you're juston pause right now and that's
okay.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, I love that terminology.
I'm in phrasing because you'reright.
I think that institutions liketalk about the fact that the
traditional student has changed,but actually haven't changed
their systems and theirpractices and their structures.
So accommodate the changingface of like what it means to be
a student.
So I love that you arechampioning and pouring into
(18:30):
adult learners across thespectrum of the different work
that you do.
What were some of the highestpoints of your doctoral journey
and what were some of the lowest?
So like maybe one or twosuccesses and one or two really
big challenges, we love to kindof ask who's the balance?
So we love to ask you toreflect on a really positive
element and then something thatyou overcame.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Okay.
So I'm going to be honest, mostof my experience Was amazing,
and I say that because I knowthis process can be so daunting.
So did I have a challenge?
Absolutely I did.
I'm going to say the good partabout it.
The good part about it was Iknew the support I put in place
(19:23):
around me in order to start theprocess.
At first, there was two words,starting with s, that mattered
to me, and it was support.
Selfishness, because everyone'slike what do you mean, you know,
by selfishness.
And then the success piece, theself care, the other stuff that
(19:46):
comes after, and what I mean bythat is when I was thinking
about my journey, I had to makesure I had support, because I
had a small kid, I still had totry to figure out how to do this
and go, so I had that supportsystem.
So that part was positive.
The sad part to that is that weI lost people along the way,
right, because then that's thatbig piece that I'm noticing when
(20:07):
I'm mentoring women that are inthe doctoral process is, oh my
gosh, the relationship that Ithought I had, and it's like as
you climb.
Sometimes people don'tunderstand that commitment,
because you got to be committedto this process and there's
going to be some people that arenot supposed to be a part of
the journey, right, and then youhave to kind of grieve that
(20:29):
loss of certain relationships.
So I think I only lost a few.
I didn't lose too many, so thatpart was good.
The selfishness was about memeaning I needed to, you know,
commit to this process to makesure that I am focused and in it
, so when it starts to get hardor difficult, that I know that
(20:51):
I'm capable and able, right.
And so that's the stuff I hadto do.
So certain people around me hadto support that and me and
making sure that my mindset wasgood.
And I do remember at some pointin that process, because of, I
think, what my topic was clearlyracial health disparities and
(21:13):
really getting into the historyof, there was someone on my
committee that wanted to changethe terminology that I was using
, right, because I wasn't usingAfrican American in minds, I was
saying black, and so it got tothe point of being like, oh, we
want to change this, change thisto African American and do this
(21:34):
and do that, and I was likehold up time out.
This is my dissertation.
You can correct me on.
You know, grandma, you know,did I do a run on that?
I cite something right, but youdo not get to change my story,
the context of how I'm tellingit and then how I'm choosing to
describe my population of choiceand the population that I
(21:57):
represent, which I'm using blackfor a reason.
And so in that moment I knewthat that semester was already
tough because I kept getting thepaper coming back, redo this,
redo, that I was like I'm notredoing nothing, so we need to
have a meeting because I'm notredoing it.
So I think in that moment,right, a little bit of like, am
I going to have to pause now?
(22:17):
Is this going to be a problem?
I knew that I needed to speakup then, because that's just
what I do, and even though I'min this system, I was not going
to sit back and let somebodyelse who was not of color
dictate to me with my researchwas going to be I'm the expert,
I'm the lived, experiencedperson, right, and so?
that was our time was justsaying true to what I wanted to
(22:41):
commit myself to and be willingto deal with the aftermath that
could have happened.
And then the good part about itis another good piece I should
say is that at the end of it,when I did have to defend
afterwards, everyone on thecommittee had said this is the
first time that we don't have aquestion of anybody that we ever
(23:04):
, you know, sat on the committeefor, and I said okay, and they
said we just wanna say continueto lead, continue to be, you
know, open and honest, continueto say what you gotta say, and
congratulations, dr FeliciaAlbert.
So in that process, because ofthe support right that I had,
(23:26):
and then my mindset, and then myselfishness, but in a positive
way, to say I gotta focus onthis, I gotta do this.
And then, knowing the power ofmy voice, and in that moment I
said if I let them change mythinking and my writing, then
they will, they will continue tobe able to do that, whoever the
days are right.
And so I said, no, I'm anexpert and I'm gonna start being
(23:48):
an expert now.
And so that was the only smallpiece.
Now.
It sounds amazing right now,but trust me in the process.
I'm tired.
If you've seen that paper backone more time telling me I gotta
rewrite it or do something, Iwas just like.
I was just through.
I was just like what are youdoing this?
So yeah, that's the way to dothat.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yes, something that I think that I have noticed as a
trend and this is all justanecdotal evidence, but now that
I've spoken to maybe like 70, Ithink we're up to like 70,
black women and non-binary folkswith doctoral degrees, I feel
like a trend has emerged wherepeople who have worked before
(24:31):
they do their doctoral degreeregardless of their age when
they start, but they havesubstantial work experience they
seem to be a bit more confidentabout themselves as an expert,
and one of the things that Ireally struggled with is I did
not have that confidence.
I also it's so funny I hadadvisors who were like, or
(24:51):
people on my committee who alsowanted me to use
African-American instead ofBlack, and I had to write I'm
remembering I can like see it onthe page the portion of my
dissertation, like the threeparagraphs that I had to insert
in order to explain why I wasusing the word Black and why I
was capitalizing the word Blackat that.
But I didn't have thatconfidence.
(25:12):
I didn't have that confidenceto feel like I actually like
know what I'm doing, so I'm notgonna push back, and I think
that part of that comes withmaturity as well, as when you
are working like you know you'reresponsible for a whole thing,
so you know that you are theexpert at your task with the
specific thing you do for work,and I think that that power
(25:34):
dynamic that exists in academiais a little bit easier for folks
who have a bit more workexperience to navigate than it
is for folks who don't so, and Ithink that that's something
that's come up so far.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yes, I fully agree, I do, I think so I think we come
in just with a little bit morelike.
No, I have a little bit morefoot in this area and, I think,
my nursing piece, because I wasnursing for, like you know,
close to like 10 years at thetime.
So I know my stuff and you'renot gonna make me change it in
(26:07):
my head, but I've always beenthat person.
My parents always told me whenI was small I was like that I'm
like well, why Like, why I gotto do anything?
I can be anything.
So it shows up.
And I was like in that moment,we're not doing it, because this
is the beginning of me being anexpert being an expert, excuse
me and standing on my platformright and being rooted and solid
(26:30):
into what I believe.
And so to me, that was thebeginning.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, yes, awesome.
So now let us transition to.
You're finishing up yourdoctoral degree you're about to
defend.
How are you thinking about yournext steps?
Because you were workingthroughout your degree, did you
like?
As soon as you got your degree,did you get a new job?
Did you strategize beforehand?
How did you kind of pivot fromDr Felissa, who doesn't have a
(26:58):
doctoral degree and is working?
Speaker 3 (26:59):
to Dr Felissa who has a.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
You know it is now going to work Like what was that
shift for you?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I think the shift it was not quick for me.
It wasn't like I went rightinto a doctoral position like
the next day, likecongratulations, great.
Now I'm working on this area, Ithink for me I like to be
present in everything thathappens in my life and don't
(27:28):
rush through.
And so because I was still, youknow, I had a great back end
still in nursing and healthcare,I was still teaching, so I
still felt I was still in a goodposition where I was not
rushing to get into anything.
(27:48):
I knew that in that moment Itook time to make sure that,
whatever space that I hold, thatI need to be true to myself.
I wanted to be true to myresearch right.
I wanted to be true as being ablack woman who has a doctorate.
And there's a difference withthat right Cause I wasn't
(28:10):
leading with my ego now that Ihave a doctorate, like oh.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
I'm here I have a ride.
I'm like I had arrived before,right.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
So I was very grateful of that and I was very
mindful of not being used nowbecause I do have the letters.
So, minds, I think I wasmindful in everything I did, but
because I was already teaching,it was an easy thing to say
okay, well, now you just gottaadd doctor to your name, since
(28:39):
you're already teaching at thispoint, and then I was already
consulting.
So I think because I was doinga few things before I got the
doctorate, that I just added onto it.
And then I think I became alittle bit more intentional
about certain areas that I wasgoing to speak in or team up
with, more so than ever.
(29:01):
So I think I was more cautiousand conscious once I got mine.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Okay, interesting.
I'm gonna ask a question superout of left field, but it's on
my mind for a reason that Iwon't get into right now.
But since you are alreadyworking, you already not just
working, you were alreadyteaching and consulting, which
are two lines of work that a lotof people with doctoral degrees
hope to get into.
When they start Like beforethey even start people often
(29:28):
envision either I wanna teach orI wanna do independent research
and do independent consulting.
I'm curious and if you don'twanna answer this, we will just
completely wipe it but I'mcurious did you, did you and, if
so, at what point?
Did you re-conceptualize yoursalary expectations for your
(29:49):
teaching job as well as yourconsulting rates with the
additional letters?
And why I'm asking this isbecause I've also been reading
lately.
I've been doing a lot ofresearch lately, but I came
across a statistic lately aboutthe additional earned potential
earning potential.
I came across a statisticrecently about the additional
earning potential of people withdoctoral degrees, but in the
(30:11):
fine print realized that earningpotential the additional
million dollars over ourlifetime doesn't apply to black
women, and so I feel likethere's this idea that a lot of
us have that I'm going to get adegree and it's going to help me
earn more, and I'm just curioushow that played out for your
life.
If that was immediate and ifthat was an internal decision,
(30:33):
if there were external forces, Iwould love if you could
possibly speak to that.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I love that the question came out of left field.
Real conversations bring upreal moments of like.
Let me ask and when I said Iwas going to be here, I'm fully
here, so I'm going to answer anyand everything that comes out
of left field.
I think, yeah, we do think thismoney's going to come right in
(30:59):
and I'm going to be able to getthis, and in my experience that
has not been the case.
It is still to me taking timeto really say okay.
So the numbers are now huge,right as far as the pay, I think
what I had to do, I weighed.
(31:20):
Did I want the moneyimmediately because, living in
Boston, you know we are themecca of education, health,
we're here.
So I had the way.
Did I want to fit in?
Do I believe in what you'reselling in order for me to get
(31:40):
my money?
Or am I going to work someplacethat, yes, I know it's not the
high pay as this other eliteinstitution, but am I able to
stay true to myself?
Am I able to make sure that Iam being the change and
providing the service that Isaid I wanted to provide and not
(32:04):
outside what people think Ishould be doing?
And then how can I turn aroundand start consulting and start
building to start making youknow the money, right?
So for me, I feel like I had toput this in my head and this is
just me no place, no job, no,nothing is ever going to pay me
(32:26):
my work, right, because I'm notgoing to be bought, but I still
have to pay my bills and you'renot going to disrespect me with
your pay, right?
And so sometimes I think, for me, in the beginning, I was like,
okay, I got to do this and nowlet me get this side job and do
this in order to try to stillmake you know some money.
And that's still where I'm at,where I'm at now.
(32:48):
To be honest, like I'm, I'mstill like not where I really
want to be, but I'm not doingthat.
And so I think, as time move onis having the conversations
about how can we really, youknow, hire each other, right,
because we know that as I lookat some contracts and I'm like,
wow, you willing to pay themthat, but you want to nickel and
(33:11):
dime me and you know we're notdoing that.
So, right, so we still got alot of work to do with our own
group as to bringing us in andpaying us, but no, it was not
the money that I thought I wasgoing to be making when I came
out.
Absolutely not.
But I just have figured out howcan I still have both worlds and
(33:33):
continue to grow.
Hence the reason why I startedputting more time into my
company, so I can start fillingthe gaps.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Did I answer the question?
You absolutely didn't.
I really appreciate thetransparency.
I feel the same way in that Ithought I just like thought
immediately that getting adoctor degree meant that you
would now be a six figure earner, and it's just like not not at
all the case.
I don't know why I thought thatand like where I got that idea
(34:03):
from it.
I really just like thought thatthat would go me my life
afterwards.
But I also appreciate your thewords that you shared about not
being disrespected by the paybut also knowing I kind of
phrase it like you know thatnothing is ever going to pay
your worth because you don'thave to be bought, and I just
love that phrasing love, love,love.
(34:23):
So you started to talk aboutyour consulting work and so I
wanted to ask you about wellequity partners.
So you founded this during thepandemic and it seems like you
kind of had like a aha moment.
How do you envision well equitycontributing to wellness,
conscious living and soulhealing, specifically for black
(34:45):
communities?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I know just the words I choose right now.
It's funny because well equity,yes, came during the pandemic
before.
Well equity what I've beenconsulting since 2000 and I
think nine or something alongthe way, with me doing racial
equity work, especially why myson was in independent schools
(35:09):
trying to navigate that system,and so I was like the whole
racial equity education we'renot having that with my young
black male, you are not going todo a lot of the things.
And so that's when I reallystarted consulting and getting
paid to come in to do things atvarious places.
But my first company was namedvisionary consulting group and
(35:33):
so that's where we kind ofstayed into that area and I knew
at some point I was going to goback to or pull more in on the
women's health side, right?
So I'm still the person thattreads lightly with accepting a
(35:54):
lot of like jobs.
And can you consult?
Can you consult?
Can you consult?
I'm like no, I got to check inwith myself and myself care to
see if I can take that on.
And so I think during thepandemic I'm looking at the
totality of everything, right,not just COVID itself, but what
COVID actually represented, whatit brought to the surface.
(36:17):
Now you should tell everybodydo not waste this time, because
even though the time was so darkand blue, there was still a
reason for it and there wasstill a message that hopefully a
lot of us was getting out of it.
And that is to self evaluate.
Look at things.
Are you where you want to be,where you trying to go?
But to me, more importantly wasthe health, and not just the
(36:40):
physical piece, but theemotional, the mental piece, and
even though we've already beenstruggling at large numbers but
COVID just magnifies some things.
And so that's when I said, okay, it's time to do a shift and
kind of now create this platform.
That when you pull up mywebsite, you know that I'm a
(37:04):
proud black woman.
Everything about it reapsblackness, right Reaps, I am my
sister's keeper, kind of thing.
And then the importance ofcentering ourselves and
everything that we do Duringthat time.
We know that black women washit very hard.
(37:24):
Whether you was in theworkplace, you had to stop
working and stop back.
You know watching the kids,whether we're single moms and
you know, you know lost jobs andyou're trying to figure out
what I'm supposed to do at homewith these kids and they still
trying to learn, like the listgoes on.
But as always, it affects thewoman first, and then
specifically the black woman.
And so how do we still come outof this right and get on the
(37:47):
other side of it?
And then the anxiety andeverything.
So that's what made me reallylook at well, equity, how can I
bring both of my worlds togetherand really be intentional?
And so during that time I'mlike I've worked with a few
people.
I brought some more people liketo partner with me to make sure
(38:08):
that.
You know, I don't like to usewords just because they common
words like yeah, we want to doholistic this and that, but when
you look at people's systemsand structure, it's not holistic
.
And so for me I was like, okay,so I have my educational coach,
my education leadership coach,I have my license clinical
(38:29):
social worker, you have me withthe other background of the
health and then still witheducation and racial equity, and
bring it all together to sayhow can we show up and do the
work and then continue topartner with others that are not
scared I'm going to say scaredor maybe have gotten comfortable
(38:52):
with doing things based off ofwhat the organization wants them
to do and to make sure that westay comfortable while doing it.
And so we are at a point, nowmore than ever, that we have to
(39:12):
stand on our beliefs, we have tolead boldly right and we have
to be honest about the truth.
And until we do that right,it's still going to look the
same, and so I knew that thepeople around me understood me
and understood my mission andwhat I wanted to do, and so I
feel like this was the best timeto have the real hard
(39:35):
conversations that people didn'twant to have.
And at the end of the day, weknow that all the isms that we
deal with, all the disparitiesthat we deal with, is that race
is at the root of it, and whenwe choose to go outside of that,
that's what we still stay inthat circle.
So I know you talked aboutracial equity.
(39:57):
We kind of been in the sameworld, so we know that.
You know race is at the center,and then what intersects race
right, and then we can look atall the pieces that go.
But if we stay scared with thisrace piece, then you know we're
going to sit back still dealingwith anxiety and depression,
and I can't change this system,and you know all the stuff that
(40:19):
we want to happen.
So I think for me, well, equityallows us to deal with the
person and give them power tosay what can you do, what can
you change?
So for me, I always tell people, in whatever space I hold, I'm
free in my space.
And I'm like, what do you meanyou're free?
I said no, I'm free becauseit's a mindset first right, and
(40:42):
then I show up to like who Ireally am.
I don't code switch.
You all know that I'm a blackwoman, not just a woman, so
don't tell me that you don't seemy color, because you do.
But then when I'm in that space,I let those know that any form
of racism, ism will not happenon my watch when I'm in the
(41:05):
space.
And the person that knows meknows that if you in a room with
Dr Felicia, the littlemicroaggressions,
macroaggressions, something thatyou say that you're like, oh my
gosh, did I really offend or Ididn't know, it's not happening
on my watch.
And so to me that has nothingto do with the bigger system and
fighting that battle.
(41:25):
I'm talking about what Icontrol and how I show up in the
space, right, and so the morewe do that and have ownership
right and accountability.
So I put in the energy ofmyself and what I can control.
So I'm like, whatever space Ihold and share, I'm going to be
authentic, I'm going to be true,and it's just not going to
happen on my watch, and I'mmaking sure that when my black
(41:48):
women are not in the room, thenI'm supporting them as if you
was in the room, and so that'swhat I've been really focused on
, and to me, that's the wellequity piece, while at the same
time making sure that you aregood, right, deep down, like,
and that you are conscious.
Right, because we're in thesespaces and we're not conscious
(42:09):
as much as we think that we areright.
And so I try to make sure thatwe're conscious and really
looking at real things so we canjust get better and take care
of ourselves, because there's alot of depression, anxiety, like
all the things now more thanever.
But we're holding these degreesthough, right, so I always say
(42:29):
at what cost?
Right, so we have to starttaking care of ourselves better
so we can have both.
Right, I can, I can still behealthy, but I can be healthy,
dr Felicia, at the same time.
Right, how do we do that right,and so that's why I'm so
passionate about well equity.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yes, you're speaking all of my languages.
I something I really appreciatethat you kind of highlighted in
the effort to do to makesystematic change around racial
equity.
I do think that we often ignoreor kind of like glance over the
individual, kind of like racial, racialized interaction with
(43:10):
people have.
I really appreciate that youwere like will we not gonna do
in this here is any kind of oh Ididn't know, like where does
not going to?
I really appreciate that I feellike sometimes in in big
corporations, even maybe likesmaller companies, we get so
focused on like the, we'retrying to undo our principles
(43:30):
and our practices and we'relooking at our policies and how
to be anti racist on ourpolicies, but it's like okay,
you can be anti racist on paper,but like other day to day
interaction, what are we doing?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
I'm so glad you said that and I just need to jump in
there, because when we reallystart removing it from the
systems right, don't get mewrong.
Right, we got to pay attentionto that too, but we all can't be
doing the same thing, right,we're needed in all areas.
So people need to pick the arearight and say this is going to
(44:04):
be the area I'm, a focus, andit's not trying to fix
everything, because I believethat when we're doing our work
in purpose, right, that we willfocus on that area.
So I know what my area is.
I'm on the frontline, right,I'm that one.
I'm more like the Renaissancekind of person.
I'm on the frontline, I'm inyour face.
This is what we.
You know I'm power, and thenthose that want to be like okay,
(44:26):
so we're going to deal with the.
You know the policies.
So there's so many systems, butin the midst of that, my job is
I want to make sure that you arehere to see the.
You know the benefits of whatyou put in.
I want to make sure that youknow that you're here longer.
I want to make sure that youare whole and present in
conscious.
Right.
(44:47):
In the midst of that, we cancontinue to get all these
positions and do this work, butI keep saying, but at what cost?
Because there is a cost Ialways say I'm not going to pay
with my mental health myselfcare, none of that.
I'm not paying that cost tothat.
So that's why I say I'm able toshow up with the energy of
(45:08):
being free and showing what thatlooks like while I'm still
doing my work and still be ableto rest at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
I love that and I think so many of us need to hear
that, whether we are, wealready have our doctoral
degrees and we I feel like wecan't not do racial equity works
like all of we have to.
There's no choice, I mean,because at some point it is a
burden that is unfortunatelyplaced on us by our existence as
(45:40):
black women, so it's aresponsibility, I mean.
I use the word burden, but Ithink where, wherever people are
on their journey, whetherthey're current grad student or
they're already finished, thereis.
We are living in a time wherethere are so many different
pressures, like like neverbefore, and it is a paramount
importance for us to take careof ourselves, because it's not
(46:01):
worth it as you have reminded us, it ain't worth it to do the
work if you're not here to reapthe benefits, and there's so
many, you know, there's so manystories of us crumbling under
the weight of the world becausewe're not taking care of
ourselves, or because we haveunderlying health conditions and
we're not getting medical careand medical treatment, or
whether they're mental healthconditions or or otherwise.
(46:24):
So I appreciate you bringingall of this to the forefront and
I'm excited for folks to hearthis and remind themselves that
they need to be selfish.
I'm just using that word alittle bit more in my life.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
You know, as a mom, all that stuff like you still
have to prioritize you.
I tell people nobody loved memore than I love me.
I love me, some me, and I showthat myself.
Would I say yes to the spacesthat I'm in and then the people
around me get to reap thebenefits of that, of me being
(46:59):
whole and happy and rooted incenter?
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yes, so so good.
So I'm curious what is onething that you would do
differently If you had to doyour doctoral degree all over
again for some strange, weirdreason?
What is one thing that youwould do differently?
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Maybe I would have connected an outside piece to it
, more outside what can I say?
I think an outside mentor,because I'm gonna be honest with
my journey.
(47:39):
I remember when I first talkedabout getting it, I was at an
event and I remember clearlythis black woman said to me oh,
you're married.
And I said yeah, and she said,well, you might lose your
marriage behind this becauseit's a lot of work.
And I was like lies, You're notspeaking that into me or not?
And so I remember me saying,okay, so let me just keep my
(48:02):
little group that I have aroundme and I can do it.
Because I didn't have that, thatthat full blown black woman
mentor to guide me through thatprocess.
If I could, if I could have hadthat, I think that would have
been great, and not just for anyblack woman, clearly, right,
because she just told me that mymarriage wasn't gonna last.
(48:24):
So it has to be somebody thatis positive, confident that this
is possible while managingother things, right?
So if I could have had that,that would have been that would
have been nice.
Now, I got that when I wasalmost done.
You know a couple of mentors atthat point but in the beginning
(48:46):
I didn't have that.
So I think, because I didn'thave that, that's why I want to
be that Right.
Yeah, that's the importance ofthat piece, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Same same same did own to it all.
And then, finally, what is onepiece of advice, just one piece
of advice that you have forcurrent or prospective black
women and non binary doctoralstudents?
Speaker 2 (49:11):
All this is big for me is to be present.
Good, bad, the tough times youtie the right in, you are
stressed, the voice is sayingyou can't do it.
Still be present in that wholeprocess.
Do not check out.
I can say when it got tough, Iwas still present with that
because that made me stronger.
(49:33):
Right, that is something that Ican now apply and be able to
share with others when they'rein that space.
Right, I think that whatever wego through, this reason and
purpose behind it we might notknow in the moment, but it
matters later and when you areconscious, you're able to get on
the other side of that tounderstand why it to go through
(49:55):
that.
So I think me, because I amconscious, like that, I can
always say there's nothing aboutthat process that I do not
respect.
That happened with me, to me,for me, because it was nothing
but growth.
So be present.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Thank you so much, dr Felicia, for that amazing piece
of advice and great remindersto be present to put ourselves
first, to dream big, to makesure you collaborate with other
people.
We didn't have time to get intoI wanted to yeah, we didn't
have time to talk about your,the way that you collaborate
with others and your consultingwork, but I want to highlight
that for folks who may havemissed that part, thank you.
(50:36):
But thank you so much forjoining us on the cohort.
This is podcast and sharingyour story or journey, and you
are continuing to do the workevery single day and we
celebrate you for that and thankyou for that.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Thank you, it was worth every bit of it.
Continue to do great work.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Thank you so much for listening to this week's
episode of the cohort sisterspodcast.
If you are a black womaninterested in joining the cohort
sisters membership community oryou're looking for more
information on how to support orpartner with cohort sisters,
please visit our website atwwwcohortcistascom.
You can also find us on allsocial media platforms at cohort
(51:23):
sisters.
Don't forget to subscribe tothe cohort sisters podcast and
leave us a quick review whereveryou're listening.
Thank you so much for joiningus this week and we'll catch you
in next week's episode.
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