Dr. Raquel Martin on Social Media as a Bridge and Connecting Research with the Public

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Cohort SysSys podcast, where we give
voice to the stories, strugglesand successes of Black women and
non-binary folks with doctoraldegrees.
I'm your host, dr Ejema Kola,and today I'm thrilled to
introduce you to Dr RaquelMartin.
If you don't know her yet,she's a licensed clinical
psychologist and a researcherwith a powerful mission.

(00:24):
Her passion centers on Blackmental health, advocating for
its vital role in success andwell-being within the Black
community.
With training at renownedinstitutions like Johns Hopkins
and the Kennedy KriegerInstitute, dr Martin is a
seasoned expert.
From tackling mental healthdisparities to guiding racial
identity development.
Her work is trulytransformative.

(00:45):
Plus, if you don't follow heron social media, you are missing
out on her often hilarious buteducational honesty and insight.
Welcome to the podcast, drMartin.
Thank you so much for having me.
Of course, I feel like I alwaysam supposed to keep these
things private, but I'm just asuper transparent person, so I

(01:07):
have to tell the people thatthis is the second time we're
recording this.
You're so crazy to come on thepodcast again.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Don't know what happened to the initial
recording.
It was like a whole two yearsago.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Both of us have since had new children since then it
was two years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, because we had to schedule twice, because the
first time with Dr Kola, my son,we were recording, we were
recording my oldest, I waspregnant and my oldest came in
and he was just sick.
He was just climbed in and justlike you have to go, girl, I

(01:43):
got to go.
Then we rescheduled that one,because he just climbed on my.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
I don't care what you're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
The second one was the real one, I was pregnant
with the second one and youweren't pregnant yet.
But part of the conversationwas about what is it like having
two?
I'm like I still got this onein you girl, I don't know.
Then I feel like a couplemonths later you were pregnant.
I was just like, okay, well, Iguess she made her decision, did

(02:16):
she not?

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Here we are here, we are.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Two whole babies have made it to Earthside since our
last interview.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Very long overdue, but so much has happened in the
world, so much has happened withyou and your work and your
scholarship.
Before we get into all of that,please just tell us a little
bit more about who you are,where you're from, what are some
things that you like to do whenyou are not wrangling your kids
, as we were just talking aboutbefore we started recording.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
I was like my child's good.
The heck out of me today.
But I'm from Philly, I live inNashville, I'm a full-time
professor at Tennessee StateUniversity, which is HBCU.
Here in Nashville I also havemy private practice where I see
patients.
The way I think about it iswhat am I doing through the week
?
Mondays and Fridays areresearch meetings, so I do
research.
Currently, one of the bigstudies we're doing right now is

(03:08):
decolonizing intro to psychcourses and I'm writing some
grants to kind of focus onAfrofeuturism.
God, I hope somebody funds them.
And then on Tuesdays andThursdays I'm on campus.
I teach psychology, the BlackExperience, and I teach
introductory research methodsfrom an intersectional way.
And then I have office hoursWednesdays as therapy.
Sundays and Saturdays normallife.

(03:31):
I always try to forget.
I always forget a role.
Oh, and I do content creation.
I do content creation withsocial media, so whole platform
focusing on Black mental health.
I've been trying to do morestuff about what liberation
psychology is and I also do somecourses for clinicians in
training when it comes toanti-racist and antirepressive

(03:53):
work.
I did a couple of courses forparents for Parenting Black and
Viracial Black Children and thatcentered on how to center their
experience in a world thatdoesn't do that.
The differences with ParentingBlack and Viracial Black
Children, tangible resources tohelp them and kind of guide them
along their journey.

(04:13):
When it comes to racial andethnic identity, because it's
very different.
It has to be incrediblyintentional, and I always state
that rearing Black children isnot like rearing any other child
, because being Black is notlike being any other ethnicity,
and there are specific thingsyou have to take into account
conversations that willconsistently be had, things that

(04:35):
you have to kind of build uptheir shields for, but also ways
to speak power into themspecifically.
But yeah, I think those are thethings I do.
I think that's everything.
Mom of two.
I have two toddlers, four yearold and 18 month old, been with
my husband for 13 years, beenmarried for six.

(04:55):
I have a dog too, and when I'mnot doing all that, I like to
read a lot, I like to bake, Ilike to cook, but cooking is
kind of tough because sometimesI can only do it.
It's prepping and it's cookingLike a lot of times it's
prepping to make sure mychildren have something to eat,
and when I'm cooking, cooking Iused to just really enjoy being
able to focus on that and dothat alone.

(05:16):
But now the baby wants to helpall the time.
So I have to find recipes thatcan also withstand messed up
measurements, becausemeasurements will be ruined.
So it's just like you know,like we'll be doing cookies or
we'll make pasta he's very goodat making pasta from scratch and
stuff like that but I have tofind specific recipes that can
withstand like this is going tobe ruined.

(05:38):
Okay, like not ruined, but likewe don't need exact
measurements.
Right, like we can do biscuitseasy, we can do pancakes,
cookies easy, we can do.
But you know I'm making gumbo.
Get out.
I'm not you know, like youcannot touch this, you just
touched the shrimp when you justtouched the sausage and then we
still got the chocolate.
Like there's certain thingsthat I'm like, bro, this is my

(06:01):
favorite recipe.
You can, you can help me withthis in five years.
I can't do it today.
Yes, I need it.
I want you to help, but, like,not at the cost of me wanting to
eat this all week, and I can'tdo it.
So I look for books, I wipebutts and I teach.
I teach students and I dotherapy.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Oh my gosh, I absolutely love chatting with
you, listening to you, loving inspace and sharing space with
you, and I'm going to go in adifferent order than we
typically go because, as youwere talking about what you do,
you brought up a question that Iwanted to get to later.
But you know, as someone who isalso a person who's doing many

(06:44):
things, all joyfully and happilybut I know that there are a lot
of people you know who arepursuing doctoral degrees, and
there are now models that existthat we probably not probably we
didn't have when we were ingrad school of people who were
teaching and also online andalso running a private practice
or doing a small business andalso parenting.

(07:05):
I did not see anyone who wasdoing that, you know.
Luckily.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
I didn't either.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
There are people like us who are doing that and there
are people like we'resurrounding ourselves with folks
like that.
But I would love if you couldjust speak a little bit to how
do you compartmentalize?
You seem to you had your wholeschedule Monday, friday, tuesday
, thursday, wednesday, like, howhave you thought about kind of
compartmentalize all thedifferent work that you do but
still, like, meet theexpectations, especially on the

(07:32):
tenure track?
So like meeting those goals andexpectations with the teaching
and the research and the service, while also showing up
authentically for your communityonline and doing the work there
, while also, you know, being apresent mom and partner and also
seeing your clients Like howare you Not that's a balancing
at all, but how do you kind ofcompartmentalize?

(07:53):
It makes space and time for allthe different ways in which you
show up and do.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, Well, one like something at least three balls
get dropped and smashed and andshatter on the floor a week.
So just a heads up, like Itotally.
I think some people handle itvery well.
I don't I separate according todays, because I separate.
That's like that's what I haveto do presently, but, um, no, we
didn't have that example.
I mean, the only reason why Igot on social media was because

(08:18):
my clients Would consistentlycomplain about, like the way you
break stuff down in session.
I don't see people doing itthat way online and they don't
look like us.
So I genuinely thought, like,whatever I can, I mean I'll
record something and I'll have10 people watch my videos and
I've helped 10 more people thatI would during my case.
Well, no idea that anyone havean interest in this, but the way

(08:39):
I've done it is well.
One of the conversations wouldbe like I Ten year is not a goal
of mine.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
I am tenure track.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
But that is not a goal of mine.
I consider it's an academia tobe an incredibly oppressive
environment and if I didn't loveteaching so much and research
so much, I would never see Iwouldn't be at a university, and
I think every time I say thatpeople are like, well, isn't
that what being a professor isabout teaching and research.
You would think, no, that's notwhat gets in the way of me

(09:09):
doing stuff right.
If it wasn't for the fact thatmy students are amazing, if it
wasn't for the fact that Igenuinely need to put out my
Programmatic line of research asa way to like contribute to the
black community, I wouldn't beteaching, and I honestly think a
lot of people are leavingtenure and leaving academia
because they found some amazingways to Teach their own courses.
There are people privatelyfunding research studies and

(09:33):
working with organizations to dothat and not being it being in
an oppressive environmentespecially being, like you know,
ebony and the ivory of academiais awful.
So I separated according todays.
I have an amazing support systemwith my husband to be.
We've been together.
We've been together for 13years, so he kind of has always

(09:54):
seen me be in a ridiculouslyhectic Environment.
It's a good balance because hisjob is in nothing.
No way like my job, like my jobwill always like there will
always be new things to learn.
We will always have continuededucation credits.
I will always be looking at anew researcher, new, great, and
stuff like that.
He's an accountant and hisstuff is pretty much like you
know.

(10:14):
Yeah, if I want to Become likesenior at like one of the big
three accountant firms, I could,but like that sounds awful and
I have no interest in doing that.
If he was in the same track asme in terms of there's always
something new to do, it probablywouldn't work.
And then also, I don't Findsocial media to be difficult.

(10:35):
Personally, one of the thingsthat makes it easy for me to do
social media is that I do thework.
I think sometimes people wouldbe like where do you get content
from?
Well, I will.
I had session on Wednesday andone of my patients said they had
never heard something put thatway and I figured, oh, somebody
else could probably benefit fromthat.
So I just did a 30 second video.
I'm teaching for courses a week.

(10:55):
So when I am coveringliberation, psychology and
Decolonization, I'm like, oh,other people could use this.
And I'll say that I'm.
This is I think there are a lotof people who have transitioned
out of their jobs to full-timecontent creation, which makes,
which makes total sense.
It's way more lucrative andless stressful, but really it's

(11:18):
really just giving a light intostuff I do all week.
I see the patients every week, Iteach every single week, I have
research meetings every singleweek, but something a ball will
drop and shatter to the groundand something will be messed up
and I Kind of have to accountfor that.
All right, like taking on somany tasks, you're making a
choice and I will say you'remaking a choice that some things

(11:40):
are not gonna get all of youright.
So even with the boys like I'mexhausted on weekends we're
trying to find a balance to makesure I'm still able to be
present and take them out, butmost of the time I'm I'm Tired,
sometimes like it's, it's just,it is what it is.
So when you're trying to add somany things, if you feel
exhausted, it's probably becauseyou're doing a lot of stuff.

(12:02):
I'm doing a lot of stuff and Ihave to be very productive with
the time that I have.
Like I have to split stuff intoday's.
I have to know that, like it'sSaturday or it's Sunday, even my
students.
They get a heads up at thebeginning of the year.
Like I don't respond to emailsafter five, you get a 48 hour
turnaround time to emails.
I don't respond to emails onweekend.
Also, why are you emailing meon a weekend?

Speaker 1 (12:23):
I'm a visit emergency .

Speaker 2 (12:24):
You know I always say I am not the Avengers.
Do not call me Okay, there's nosuch thing as a course
emergency.
If the if the assignment islate, I'll extend it.
If something is confusion, waituntil I explain it, and if it
was confusing to me too, I'llchange it.
You know, like it's it's notreally trying to lead with like.
These are how you should betreated as human beings, and Any
other environment that doesn'ttreat you this way is an example

(12:46):
of an oppressive environment.
But stuff falls all the time.
Stuff was all the time.
I was running behind because myscared my child scared the crap
out of me, so that took me like10 minutes to like regulate
myself and then running behindbecause of that.
They had all their artisanalbreakfast.
I have yet to make somethingI'm probably gonna have, like if
there's a pork chop in thefreezer or something for
breakfast, you know, likesomething falls through.

(13:07):
But I always feel like the thingthat keeps me going is One it's
amazing to have more Modelslike, like, so now at this point
they're not older than justcolleagues.
Like my biggest model when itcomes to people doing the same
thing as dr Bryant, dr TamaBryant, she's doing it all the
time, but everyone else, they'reall, it's all of us, it's like
you, and then a job opera, andthen Erlanger Turner and then

(13:30):
Esha Metzger and then LaurenMims like, we're all the same
age, like, so I get to see howwe're doing it in our level.
But if I think of someone who'sdoing it above us, though, the
it's dr Brian and she just.
I mean she, she's been doingthe work for forever, but she's
the first person I see who'sactually integrating.
Oh no, and dr Alfie.
Dr Alfie too, she would be likeone who's a little older than

(13:51):
us, but before.
But I feel like we all gotonline at the same time.
Actually, you were alive beforeme because you were the first
person that I was just like, ohmy gosh, like I don't know how
to flip.
She does this.
And she's like a collision, too, because I was seeing content
creators who aren't doing theactual work, like who were
talking about this stuff, but Ialways feel like they got it.
They would like mix it up, orthey wouldn't be transparent or

(14:13):
they didn't look like me, orthey would talk about mental
often in general sense, but notlike black mental health, and
I'm like that's why, when I sawyou, I was like oh, instant
follows.
Finally, oh my god, somebody whoLooks like you know they know
what the heck like talk aboutblack mental health.
So it's.
I feel like it's easier now.
I also appreciate people beingmore transparent, because every
time someone mentions tenure,I'm like no, I'm like that is

(14:38):
not my goal, like, and I feellike nobody was saying that.
Like, nobody would admit thatthis is awful, this is terrible.
They expect us to do all thesethings and then wonder why, like
we're exhausted in the serviceand the academia and stuff like
that.
And I tell people all the timelike, oh, how was it being on
tenure track?
And I'm like, oh, I am on that.

(14:58):
It's not gonna happen, I'm sure, and it's a choice.
You can make the choice to dothat, but I don't think it's a
healthy one with the stuff thatthey do.
So I always ask my studentswhen they're like, oh, tenure
track.
I'm like, okay, so what do youwant from the tenure track?
Like, what are we thinking of?
What are your goals?
And do you think this is theonly way to achieve that?
Because the PhD journey likeI've never had worse mental

(15:20):
health in my life.
It was awful, yeah, and Ididn't.
The best thing I got was mydegrees and my colleagues, but I
didn't enjoy my experience atall.
I could not stand it.
It's it always stayed like.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
It's a perfect example of that.
Yeah, what were some of thelike main triggers for you
during your doctoral journey?
If they're not too traumatic totalk about?

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Oh no, they're not just racism.
Racism I had a.
I had a professor in class saythe n-word we were talking.
I'll never forget.
It was the history.
It was the history ofpsychology.
We're talking about John BWatson, and John B Watson Is a
someone who's faint does abehavioral psychologist and he
used to pay To watch blackpeople fight, but he didn't call

(16:03):
them black people.
He used to pay to watch n-wordfights and my professor, who
wasn't black because of myprofessors are black felt the
need to say the word and I waslike, why would you think that's
appropriate?
She said well, that's why it's,that's what it said in the book
.
And being so overwhelmed, like Ithink a lot of people mentioned

(16:23):
, like to me, I'm veryunapologetic, but I had to be.
I feel like I find that to be ablessing and I had to be broken
to get that blessing.
I always say I have apersonality and intellect, a
demeanor that makes people wantto humble me at all times, and
because of that I had to buildup like how I being being myself
an environment was less taxingthan switch, cold, switching and

(16:44):
masking.
So having to do that but eventhen did not say anything else,
left the room crying, didn'taddress it again.
She apologized at one point andthen she made it a point to say
would it help if you knew thatmy boyfriend was black?
But this is my professor.
This person is getting paid toteach me.
I had someone who mentioned thefact that, like they asked me

(17:06):
during my dissertation committee, why didn't you focus on Black,
why didn't you focus onEuropean Americans in depth, as
you did black people?
And I said I wasn't interestedin that population and just
stared at her until she Felt theneed to go to a different
question.
During my program I had to be a.
I had full-time case low Offour times.

(17:27):
I was a full-time student, hadfull-time courses.
Also was a research assistant,had to do my research.
I also was a TA, had to TA twoclasses and then I also what
else did I have to do?
Also had to be a full-timeclinician because you also have
to get clinical hours and thatwas awful.
Also long distance from myboyfriend at the time.
Well, he's my husband now, butlong distance for that.

(17:49):
My husband is not a fallenperson, so like that was like
super annoying and not havingthat support system and then
just being in an environmentwhere there weren't that many
people that looked like me andcouldn't grasp how what you said
was inappropriate, couldn'tgrasp how like that was really
stupid, couldn't grasp why I hadto advocate for focusing on

(18:09):
black mental health, couldn'tgrasp that this was like an
impressive and a ridiculousenvironment in the first place.
So I couldn't stand it.
But I knew the whole reason whyI became a psychologist was to
help black people.
So I was just like I'm gonnaget this degree and I'm getting
the freak up out of here.
Like that was my whole thing.
Like let's go.
Like oh, can you do thiscommittee?

(18:31):
Nope, you know.
Like oh, at one point I had aprofessor who was my advisor and
she was my clinical advisor andshe wrote me down.
She marked me down on one of myreviews and I said why did you
mark me down on this?
And she said well, you got Ifeel like you weren't taking my
coursework seriously because shetaught one of my classes and

(18:52):
she was like you gotta be on oneof my assignments.
And I said, oh, yes, I know, Ichose to get that B.
I chose to go to sleep and geta B instead of staying up and
getting an A.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
I said, however, and this is how, let me tell you
something.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
This is how sometimes , this is how ballsy you gotta
be.
I said, however, you are myclinical advisor, correct?
She said yes.
I said I am confused as to howthis relates to my clinical work
.
It seems like you are upsetabout something of your
coursework which, but telling meI didn't get a, B, that's
already inappropriate.
And she was like oh, okay, Well, I guess you're right.
I said yes.
So she was like okay, so wesigned this.
And then the meeting's over.

(19:24):
I said, oh, I'm not signingthis until you change this.
And she's like well, themeeting, the time, meeting time
is almost up.
And I said that's okay, I'vesaid what I had to say.
Did you have anything else tosay to me?
And she said no.
I said okay, Well, I'll signthis when it gets corrected.
I'm not gonna sign something Idon't agree with.
So she corrected it, gave methe points I deserved, and then
I found the new clinical advisorthe next week.

(19:46):
It was suggested, it wasrecommended Because if you have
people who are trying toincorrectly, you're upset about
something about my courseworkand you put that on my clinical
advice, that has nothing to dowith this.
And I was very open, like, ohyeah, it shows that B.
I know what an A paper lookslike.
I also know that I'm exhaustedand you guys are asking too much
of me, so B paper submit, Gottwo extra hours to sleep Cause

(20:09):
it's not always gonna be worthit, and no one has ever asked me
for my GPA for my doctoralprogram.
I wish they would.
It was a 3.9, for God's sake.
But, you know, no one ever askedme that.
Was that one a 3.9?
I think it was my master's, butanyway, no one cares right.
And I had to make.
I had to do extra work, likeall of my clinical sites were
super European, americancentered, so I had to do extra

(20:30):
work to find appropriateclinical sites to let me
specialize in a population Iwanted to work with.
I was doing extra work.
I also had a side job, cause itwasn't enough to live off of
and doing all this and them justbeing like we need more.
Why aren't you doing research?
So my PhD program you couldhave done a research and
clinical track or you could havejust done a clinical track.

(20:50):
I did both and I started offwith three other colleagues
doing both.
One drop they both dropped.
One left the program cause shesaid it was too much and the
other one left to do researchonly track because she said
there's no way to balanceclinical and research is awful.
I was the only one who stayedto do both and even that wasn't
an indicator that their programwas too much.
And my PhD program was in a medschool so I also had to take

(21:10):
med school classes, so like itwas incredibly unrealistic.
They also wanted to.
They were trying to force me tostay an extra year.
I graduated, I finished in fiveyears.
They wanted me to stay in sixand they kept saying everyone
finishes in six.
And I said I am not going tospend another year with y'all.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Point blank here.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
I was like I'm not doing this.
So what do you need for me tograduate in five?
They said you need to do this,Did it all, and even my
dissertation my dissertation.
I was what was it?
38 weeks pregnant.
I did my dissertation defensein front of my committee, walked
off the stage, went to thehospital and delivered my child.
That's how much I was just like.

(21:47):
I got to get out of here.
It wasn't pleasant at all.
The best thing is that fact thatI get to advocate for people.
The best thing is that I get tohelp the black people I want.
But I'm definitely not one ofthose people who enjoy their
experience Like at all, and it'sone of the reasons why, when I
meet people in training andthey're in their program, I
always try to just make it apoint to be like build your
community, figure out what yourline is, be comfortable

(22:10):
advocating for yourself, Causeat the end of the day, the only
thing that matters is what'sgoing on with you.
You can't help anyone if youcan't help yourself.
So choose.
If that's a B paper, Choosethat you're like oh, I'm either
going to take an extra year orI'm going to leave.
Choose what your end game isand figure out what you need to
get that, because my mentalhealth was terrible and like the

(22:31):
only thing that really helpedwas my community and having
people also outside of the field, Because if you're dealing with
a lot of PhD students, most ofus, you know are just doing
terribly, so you really needpeople outside the program.
Like my husband was people andhe would just be like this is
insane.
I needed someone to remind methat this is inappropriate,

(22:53):
because if I was only talking tomy colleagues and we're all
just going through this terriblething, sometimes it's hard to
remember that this isinappropriate.
Sometimes it's hard to rememberthat not all environments are
this oppressive.
Sometimes it's hard to figurethat out if you don't have
people who are not in it.
So I always say, like also havesomeone who's not in your
program.
Yo, because we lose sight ofhow insane it is that that

(23:15):
professor spoke to us that waybecause everyone's doing it.
And then you tell that story tosomeone who's not in the field
and it's like did you call thecops?
Like you know, they're justlike oh, my God.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, no, that's such a good point.
I hadn't thought about that,but I agree that's.
I think that's actually one ofthe things that kept me grounded
in grad school, like I, when Ihad roommates for the first four
years three years at gradschool, I was.
I was like I'm not living oncampus and I had roommates who
were not yeah, they were notdoctoral students, they weren't
in school, they were real peoplewith real jobs.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
They had real jobs, real money.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Yes, and I think that was right, like that, being
able to talk to them one aboutlike the weird things that were
happening, but also just aboutnot academic things, like to
remain a real person, cause Ifeel like sometimes when we are
in a doctoral program, you canget so consumed with the
research and the teaching andthe coursework that you feel
like that's all there is to lifeand it's like there's actually

(24:10):
real life happening outside ofschool and it's hard to.
if you're, if you're onlysurrounding yourself with other
grad students like if you'reroommate.
If you have a roommate isanother doctoral student like I
can see how you can get suckedinto this world in which
academia is your whole life, andthat's not healthy, that's not
good.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
It's not.
And I always got like overt andcovert messages Like that was
the sacrifice I had to make andI was never willing to do that
because we're in school forever.
So even like when I was in alab meeting and I was just like,
oh guys, I'm going to be outnext week, I had to give them my
heads up and my at the head ofthe meeting, dr Riggs, was like,

(24:52):
yes, raquel, are you going totell people why you're going to
be out next week?
Or and I was like, oh yeah,cause he already.
I was like I'm getting married,so I'm out next week.
And they're like what?
And it was just like cause Ikept it so separate.
I'm like, listen, I keep myheads down, do what I gotta do.
That's the only way it can work.
He was like, yes, raquel'sgetting married next week, so

(25:12):
she's not going to be here.
And they were just like, oh myGod, you just said it so
nonchalantly and I'm just likeyou're all cause y'all not my
people.
Now, when I get off the phonewith y'all when I leave this
meeting.
I'm going to be like, ah, weget two more days.
I'm about to be, you know, buty'all not my people, so that's
not what this is for.
But I was just like, yeah, solet's just double check to make
sure we have, like, the scalesdone, all that done.

(25:33):
I'm getting married, I'm outright.
But so many people had tried toovertly or covertly tell me that
my life had to be placed onhold, Even with the whole
getting pregnant thing.
I did.
But I have a bachelor's.
I have two masters and a PhD inmedical, clinical psych.
I did a APA accreditedinternship and a postdoc and
then I still had to sit for mylicensure exam.
So that was my whole life Gotmarried during that time I'm

(25:56):
still kept my relationship withmy husband and then also got
pregnant and none of my all mykids were playing honey.
Cause one I'm a Christmas baby.
I hate having a winter birthday, so I'm not Christmas baby.
My birthday is December 19th,but people try to scam me, so I
very much was like hey, listen,listen, I know when I ovulate, I
know all this.
Let's just see if we can makethis happen, because I do not

(26:17):
want a winter baby.
I hate being a winter baby somuch and I just can't do it.
It makes that incrediblydifficult for booking things.
Also, I don't want to share mybirthday, mom, I'm a twin.
And it's also another thing.
I'm a twin, I share my birthdaywith one other person.
I refuse to share my month withanyone else.
So all my children were verymuch like planned.

(26:37):
I'm like all right, let's pullthe goalie, let's see what
happens, right, and I getpregnant very quickly, like we
were both like whoa.
Ok, we were right to use theprotection we used because we
could have this could have wentreally bad Very quick.
So I get pregnant very quick.
So I'd always planned it.
I knew I was going to try to getpregnant during my program and

(26:58):
when I did my internship and Itold the head of the program
that I was pregnant, the firstthing she said was how excited
are you?
She didn't say anything aboutlogistics.
She didn't say anything aboutwell, you know, you need 2000
hours to graduate from this.
Her first thing was how excitedare you?
And that was one of the thingsthat always makes me advocate
for that program at JohnsHopkins because, just to be

(27:19):
honest, so many people get toldus as women you know we're the
main people doing PhDs we gettold that stuff has to be placed
on hold and I refuse to do thatbecause there was no way I
wanted that.
I knew I wanted to have a child.
I also knew that this wassomething that we had worked
towards too, and having peoplearound me, I didn't have any

(27:41):
other example of people doing itLike everyone was like oh, I
graduated and then I got married, or I got married but then I
came back.
I got married on a Friday andcame back on Monday for my lab
meetings and I used to just belike y'all, have lost y'all, and
they weren't black.
But in my mind I'm always likeyou don't lost your black mind,
even when it's not a blackperson, because in my mind I'm
like you don't lost your blackmind if you think, and you know

(28:03):
all that.
So, like I never really had anexample of that, I didn't have
any mentors who were doing whatI wanted to do.
I had people who were very mucheither in the clinical sector
or they were in the researchsector, because it is very
difficult to manage both.
I didn't have anyone that wasblack and looked like me, who
could have a conversation aboutfamily planning and family

(28:24):
building, acknowledged the factthat this environment was racist
and still say everything was OK.
I didn't have it.
I honestly still don't have amentor.
I didn't have a mentor in thatsense and I was limited to
nobody was really doing socialmedia.
So I was limited to the peoplearound me and if nobody looks
like you and you don't know whoto reach out to, you're kind of
just forging your own path.
So I just had to know my valuesand what I wanted and kind of

(28:47):
had to just be like willing toeither fight for it or get rid
of some stuff.
Like fight for getting marriedoh, we need you to be here
Monday, no, yeah and be likewhat's the next step?
You know it's not, it's not PTO, it's not a.
It's not a, it's not a.
You know I'm not, it's not arequest.
Is this?
Is a statement?
I'm leaving, you know, and justbe willing to, and that's why

(29:12):
it is like a whole, I'll be, I'mthe main person.
Who'll be like listen, I'm onyour side.
We just gonna fight for thisbecause I've had to.
You have to decide, like theseare my values.
Who am I going to listen to?
Am I going to listen to me interms of what I want, or I'm
going to listen to this programsaying that I can't have it?
Am I genuinely going to thinkthe only way to get like
publications are to, you know,sacrifice everything in my being
?
Or am I going to find otherpartnership?

(29:32):
Am I really going to think thatfirst authors are the only
things that matter?
Or am I going to identify thefact that my goal is to put out
tangible research and I don'thave the ability to put out a
first author, but I do want tobuild collaborations and I'm
okay with being a second authoron this, like, what am I going
to decide is important?
What am I going to figure outis my mission, because, coming
in, they're like first authorsare all that matter and you got

(29:52):
to kill yourself to get those.
No, I'm going to happily reachout to someone, be a second
author and be like tell themwhat you need for me to be in
this second place.
Don't even try to put me first.
I'm not here for that right.
But you have to decide, like,what's genuinely important for
you, because you will havepeople telling you first authors
are all that matters.
Only way that you can come upwith, only way that you can

(30:12):
teach, is in academia.
I have a platform of over amillion people and I teach
people about psycho education,black mental health, liberation,
psychology.
That will reach way more thanmy.
I teach 150 students a semesterwill reach way more than that.
What if I believe that?
What if I believe?
And honestly, in academia, youknow, like people are so much
older, some of them are justlike fuddy duties, like, oh, you

(30:33):
did that on your, yourInstagram, you know, and I'm
like, yeah, I did it on myInstagram.
I cited myself as well as otherpeople, and look at that.
We're at 55,000 views.
How many people came to your,your lecture?
That was inaccessible and liketo me.
You used too many $20 wordswhen I thought how many Cool I

(30:56):
got.
You know Viola Davis justreposted me.
But you sure, yes, yes, please,please, please, tell me how you
reaching more people.
Explain it to me.
You know, like cause, it's just, it's so, it's just.
Sometimes I'll be like that'swack and it'll be as old out
care how old school it is.

(31:17):
Some stuff is just wack.
Research has never meant to stayon the stuff it was meant to be
and it was meant to beaccessible.
It was meant to betranslational, it was meant to
serve us.
And you have all these fuddyduties who are over here writing
studies that will never applyto us.
They're writing here, they'redoing all this quantitative
research instead of qualitativestuff that will actually give
honor and narrative to the, youknow, honor to the themes that

(31:39):
were identified that willactually be applied to us.
But they got that NIH grant andNIH told them that this was
worth it to do another study ona process that will never be
applied to us.
Do you know how many resourcesare in the discussion section of
an article?
How many tangible examples youcan have in terms of ways to
combat racism related stress,race over that battle fatigue
that are in the discussionsection that no one will read,

(32:01):
and you're too high and mightyto make up a skit that will
cover your amazing research thatyou did.
I'll do the cameras.
I will say you know what thisreminds me of Racism related
stress, and here are some tipsto do it.
And if you want to read thearticle, you can read the
article, but if you don't, thisvideo just gave you 10 tangible
tips that I guarantee you willdecrease your mental off right.

(32:23):
Like, the aspect of people notbeing on social media, I feel as
though is egregious andunethical, because if our goal
is to be accessible, socialmedia is accessible.
Right, like if I every most ofmy my things, most of my posts,
it'll be like oh, here are sometangible tips.
Here's the resource I got thisfrom.
Sometimes I'm just quoting me,but I'll be like here's a

(32:43):
citation, but where did you getall this information?
From this amazing scientist whodid this work?
People aren't going to read thejournals, but they'll watch a
one minute and 30 second videothat provides them with the same
exact stuff.
Like there's so many people whoaren't making stuff accessible.
I feel like it's part of ourjob to be on social media, like
even this.
I would have loved this podcastwhen I was in school that I can
like I can legit look everysingle week and see another

(33:06):
black clinician who is eitherstruggling or has resources, and
I don't have to think I'minsane for saying that like, hey
, this place is racist, doesanyone else feel?
like this is, you know, like,but you have people who are
sitting on academic gold andthey're just like, I don't know
how to work the camera, but youcan work.
Spss and SAS and STATA, you canwork.
You can do a, you can do a, aquality, you can do a

(33:28):
qualitative and quantitativedata analysis, but you can hit,
play and record and add acaption.
Come on, well, I think.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
I want to challenge something that you said, because
I actually I think I disagreewith you.
You said that the goal is tomake the research accessible,
and I actually inherently don'tthink that academia was set up
so that research.
Oh no, it wasn't.
Like, that's where the that'swhere the the clash is.
Like the institution field,it's supposed to really be

(33:57):
closed off to the lay person.
Like we are.
We're supposed to work with theknowledge and we're supposed to
hoard it and we're supposed toonly talk to ourselves, which is
why it's like seem to be betterto publish an article that was
peer reviewed, that seven peopleread it, than to publish
something, even if it's likepublished in the Washington Post
, like that stuff is looked downupon.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
It's not, it's meant to be elitist right.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
So yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
I yeah, I just want to push back on this idea that,
like I definitely don't think alot of people think it's their
job to be accessible.
I feel like they theyintentionally write and research
and publish in a way that isinaccessible to folks, even the
language that people use.
I used to struggle so much ingrad school I was like I can not
read 20.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
I just don't understand.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
I don't understand what you're trying to say, and
so many of us are taught towrite that way.
We are like we.
We are taught that the moreflowery language that we use,
the more times we drop, as yousay, the $20 words the social
like.
It's just the things that noactual, like regular person will
understand.
People, even in the field,don't understand these words

(35:05):
because they're so big.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Well, but you know they do that on purpose.
It's very complicated.
Yeah, my, when I was in training, when I was told that if you
can't break a concept down to afour year old, then you don't
understand the concept, becausesome of my patients were as
young as four and while and thisis one of the things I don't
agree with academia, whileacademia was meant to be elitist
in classes and hoardinformation because we weren't

(35:27):
even supposed to be there.
That's why tenure is not thegoal.
That's it's wrong.
Yeah, it wasn't built that way,but we can both agree.
That's wrong, that's ridiculous, because you know what?
That's?
An act of violence against ushoarding information that can
contribute to the decrease inminority mental health
disparities, the increase of ourmental health and wellbeing.
That's violence against theblack community Right, keeping

(35:50):
us out of those faces.
I consider that to be an activewar and I'm a treated as such
right.
But that's violence.
When we can identify the factthat having individuals that
look like you teach you, meansyou'll do better.
When we can identify the factthat providing you with these
resources will help your mentalhealth and wellbeing be better.
When we can identify the factthat representation in itself,
racial identity development, isa barrier against perceived

(36:13):
racism, mental healthdifficulties and increases
identity development and youdon't make it a point to put
that in all your education.
It's violence Like this is it's, it's an act of war, right?
So when people are, when wetalk about the aspect of
academia and it wasn't meant tobe elitist, we weren't even can
you imagine, can you imagine ifwe went back in the day and
they're like who, these two,first of all women, second of

(36:34):
all black, and then black?
Oh my God, can you imagine Iwould, oh my God, the violence
like the?
Can you like the, the, thedissonance that would arise.
Like who are?
They say that they're doctors,but I don't, I don't know, I
don't, I don't understand, Idon't understand.
You know that's what it wasmade for, but that's not how
it's supposed to be, becauseit's not serving anything.

(36:55):
And I tell my students all thetime, I'll call my students my
dismalentilers Right.
And you can have intro to psych, but we do intro to psych,
decolonizing.
You do a psych on the blackexperience.
You could do research methods,but we do it from an
intersectional way.
The system is broken and yourjob you took my class you are
supposed to dismantle this wholesystem.
That is the job.
And if you want.
If you didn't want the extra,go take it with someone else,

(37:16):
because you know darn well thereare plenty of professors who
aren't going to do that.
I call them my dismalentilers.
I feel the same way withacademia.
You know, in our researchmethods class we talk about the
aspect of open science and thefact that they never knew that
if they had to pay for aresearch article, that we didn't
get paid the public, the peoplewho came up with the article,
didn't get paid.
Yes, I'm going to talk to youabout that.
They don't know that.
I'm going to talk to you aboutqualitative analysis and IRB.

(37:38):
I'm also going to talk to youabout intersectional research,
quantitative, qualitative,unethical practices and whether
academia should survive the wayit does.
I'm going to talk to you aboutall of this and, yes, you're
going to know reliably andvalidity, but you're also going
to know that we're going to do.
You're going to burn thissystem down and start a new one
because we need to like.
I want you to critically thinkright, it wasn't meant for us,
but it's not.
The number of times I'll readan article, I'm a nerd.

(38:01):
We're both clearly nerds, orelse we wouldn't have been in
school our whole life.
So, like the number of times Iread an amazing article and I'm
like yo, this would be a greatskit.
You know what?
This would be a greatcommercial.
The mental health coalitionshould get on this.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Why isn't you know, like man you know what I thought
of.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
You know what I thought of when I heard like I
would hear hip hop songs and Iheard like Megan Eastallian's,
one of my favorite right now.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
And I'm like.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
You know what this Megan Eastallian song makes me
think of role playing and adynamic in terms of mental
health and the way to advocatefor yourself.
So I made a skit about it.
You know, like the number oftimes I'll read the research and
I'm like this is amazing.
I can make this into a twominute skit easily.
And this can reach so manypeople.
And you're still using theresources because, at the end of
the day, I feel like whenresource sits on a shelf, when

(38:49):
it has this aspect of being aleadess, we're not helping the
people that we need to.
I also feel like people aregetting funded that need to stop
getting funded, in my opinion,but we're not helping the people
that we need to.
And then, as a mental healthclinician, as a licensed
clinical psychologist, I'm beingexpected to work with people in
therapy to help them outrunracism, economic disparities,

(39:13):
classism, elitism, like therapywas never meant to be enough and
I and licensed mental healthclinicians are very much
expected to.
Hey, let me help you outthinkracism.
Hey, let me help you manageyour stress when it comes to
food scarcity.
Hey, let me help you deal withyour anxiety of not having a
livable wage, instead of beinglike these are the policies that

(39:33):
needs to be done.
With food scarcity, you knowlike we're being expected to do
stuff inappropriately and I feellike when we don't, you know,
come in as clinicians and try tomake it more accessible.
We need to upend the wayacademia is, because some people
feel like, oh, when you gettenure, it's to be lazy.
No, when you get tenure, it'sto be able to be able, when it
was accessible, when it was ableto happen for people to

(39:55):
actually do the research thatthey wanted to do in order to
get to the tenure.
Like I love how people will belike you get tenure and get lazy
no.
It means like oh my God, I cando that research study I've been
trying to do my whole life andI'm looking for it.
Oh my God.
I can actually do what I gotinto this field to do, and
whenever I'm looking at studentswho are training, I'm like your
north star needs to be yourmission.
Don't think about it in termsof jobs, like, of the title,

(40:16):
like, oh, I'm gonna be a tenureprofessor.
Tell me why.
What do you wanna achieve withthat?
Oh, I wanna contribute to thedecrease in mental health
disparities.
How, oh, I wanna do itaccording to therapy.
What's your specialty?
Okay, so what if I told you youcan do that at academia, but
you don't have to do that atacademia If academia doesn't
work out for you.
When you feel as though yourmental health is taking such a
nose dive that you cannot remainin this environment, let's

(40:37):
figure out some ways for you toachieve your mission, because we
didn't think about it as a job,we thought about it as a
mission.
Let's think about ways for youto do it another way.
Do you wanna have a nonprofit?
Do you wanna come up with yourown mental health channel where
you identify ways to advocatefor people?
Do you wanna?
There's a whole organizationcalled GirlsGrantorg and their
whole job is to fund researchstudies that come with like
intersectional aspects of black,of women overall, and they're

(40:58):
funding research and you can be.
You can have an organization,you can be in academia or you
can be not and you can still beconducting amazing research.
Right, push out, monique.
It's Monique Morris, right,yeah, monique Morris.
Her book.
People Will Talk About Push Outand Not Realize because she
made it so accessible with abook and a documentary and a
graphic novel and a guide tomake spaces more inclusive for

(41:20):
educators and clinicians.
They are quoting some of themost intense and amazing
research, but she made itaccessible, right, the amount of
work she had to do to do thatis insane and she shouldn't have
had to do it.
But, like, when I'm talking tostudents and they tell me they
want a PhD, I'm like do you ordo you wanna achieve your
mission in a different way?
I try to tell them like Iunderstand that there's gonna be

(41:40):
, especially like people withthings that try to disrupt you.
Your North Star is your mission, not your job title.
I want you to break down whatyou wanna do.
I want you to break down howyou wanna contribute and I want
you to break down what you'rewilling kinda I always say it
this way who you're willing topunch in the face, to kind of
like make sure that you're notderailed, because who are you
willing to do a metaphoricalthroat punch to be like I'm not

(42:03):
coming in?
I told you I was tired.
I'm not coming in, okay, so ifI have to take another week or
do another course, fine, but I'mnot coming in.
Who are you willing toliterally say no in order to
maintain your wellbeing?
And if you go into theseprograms without setting that up
, without writing these down,you can't achieve goals that are

(42:23):
not written down.
You can't maintain boundariesthat are not expressed.
You can't right.
You have to think about it likewhat am I willing to do and
what am I willing not to do?
And don't think that becauseyou're in your program and you
haven't written this down, thatyou can't do it.
You can, I let man.
When I tell you people who metlike first year Raquel, really,

(42:45):
they really got whatever thefreak.
Oh yeah, I'm tired, but sure Ican write that.
Oh yeah, sure I can show up tolet the animals out the left,
yes.
And then second or third year,I'm like yo, this is crazy.
Let's see what happens when Isay no, because let me tell you
something, I'm starting to notcare and you're starting to get
rid of my mental health, right.
But people who got oh, you usedto be so, so, more amenable.

(43:06):
I was more amenable to youtaking advantage of me and now I
decided that it's inappropriatefor me to put you before me.
So I hope you got all youneeded from first year me,
because I'm throwing bowls everyday and I don't care.
Like I've literally hadconversations and they just look
at me like so are you not gonnado it?
I'm not.
And low and behold, someone elsecame in to do it.

(43:27):
Low and behold.
You know like cause, when youthink about it in our programs,
all of the stuff that they'regetting from us, we it's, it's,
it's expensive, a TA, like whenthey had to at one point they
had to put it in as a job to payus.
They had to put it in and theyhad to make a cre.
They had to create a specialjob because the income that they
were paying us was so low thatthe system that they had to

(43:47):
enter our job in would notaccept the wage.
It was so low that the systemwas like for these number of you
know cause, sometimes they'llquiet.
For these number of likeresponsibilities.
We can't pay them this.
They had to create a specificthing, like to be a research
assistant alone.
I think the baseline salary waslike 40K or something, 40 or 50

(44:08):
, but we were, they were puttingin a job thing for a research
assistant, teaching assistantand clinical worker and we're
putting it as like, oh, we'regonna pay them 30K.
And they were like what youcan't?
You can't, like they had tocreate something Like we have to
.
It's oppressive, it's notethical.
I always say we need a union,but all of us are too busy to

(44:29):
make a union to make sure thatwe're not taken advantage of.
I always say like, as someonewho didn't have a mentor, didn't
enjoy their experience, stillhad a baby, got married, did
everything that I needed to do.
What changed for me was statingthat, like this is what I'm
willing to do and this is whatI'm willing to like, kind of
punch someone in the throat tomaintain and will not care.

(44:51):
Like I'm getting married, I'mhaving a baby, I'm not doing
another data analysis, fight me.
And sometimes, literally, Iwould be like fight me Because I
am not doing it.
Oh, you're gonna graduate insix years, I'm graduating in
five.
Fight me, oh well, we don'tthink you can do that.

(45:11):
Tell me the requirements.
We can tell you therequirements where we don't
think you're gonna make it Cool.
I don't care what intent you'rewriting the email, I just need
the email.
Okay, I just need the list.
I don't care if you believe Ican complete the list, I just
need the list.
You have to have that as yournorth star, because the
environment, just like you said,dr Cola, it's not meant for us.
It's not meant for us, it ismeant to be elitist.
And when you, most of the timewith black people and PhD

(45:34):
programs, this is part of ouractivism Like we wanna be agents
of change.
There's a reason why we wentinto this.
We wanna make stuff moreaccessible.
We're in the pursuit ofintellect and then, when you're
having the pursuit of intellect,you are gonna have to change
your mindset.
I used to think that academiawas the only way.
I used to think there's no wayI can do research and help
people without doing these NIHstuff.
And then I got on social mediaand then people are like I never

(45:56):
knew that this is a sign ofdepression.
I thought I was mad when weboth know there are so many
studies that say that very point, but no one made it accessible
to the people that's meant tohelp.
And one of the advice I tellpeople in training get on social
media.
Get on social media becausepeople need to see us.
You were the first black doctorI saw on social media who was

(46:20):
also doing doctor work.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Like, actually like oh yeah, this is what I did
today.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
This is what I did today, you know, telling me oh,
get rid.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
This is what the like the, like the doctor.
This is what I wore to TA.
This is what this is the firsttime I saw, and I was just like
and she's on social media.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
She's not gonna kick that out.
Oh my God, like she's actuallydoing this stuff.
Oh my goodness, social mediadoesn't take away your
credibility.
If anything, we need to seemore people like us to be like
oh my goodness, you taught yourwhole class in a public enemy
shirt I did.
I love them.
You used a Megan B Stylian quoteto discuss cognitive dissonance

(46:59):
I did, you took.
You talked about Sukiyana todiscuss the aspect of consent
and coercion Sure did.
Yeah, and you know who's gonnaremember that for the rest of
their coursework?
My students.
You know what they're not gonnaremember?
Well, if you look at theintricacies of the dynamic, oh
my God.
And as someone who understandsall the words, half the time in

(47:21):
my head there's a translationand when they're doing their
presentations, like these thingsand I'll be like this could be
so interesting, I'll be hearingit I'm like man, this is an
amazing study.
It is boring.
As freak though I bet you, Icould freak this and make this
into, this could be a whole youknow like, and it's amazing.
There's so much amazing.
I am a nerd, yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
I am a nerd.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Okay, I hear a good research study and I'm like, oh
my god, this is so cool.
Did you hear about the way thatthey did that coding analysis?
Oh my god.
The thematic oh my, you usephoto voice.
Oh my, how many participantsdid you tell me?
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
And what did they say ?

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Oh my god, like you, you gave them their own cameras.
Oh my god.
And then?
What did they say?
Oh my goodness, sps,qualitative analysis, yes.
And then they'll be like oh,this study was actually done two
years ago, I just haven't beenable to.
Oh, the people need to know.
The people need to know.
Oh my goodness, you mean totell me, if you give kids all
town to me, they're able to Takecare of themselves.
You mean to tell me, by tellingblack children about themselves

(48:22):
and their culture and not thatit started at enslavement,
they're less likely to engage inrisky behaviors.
And you over here, worriedabout having the sex talk with
them, is Going to make them havesex, when having the sex talk
with them actually decreases thelikelihood, and there's a
million studies that say that.
But you haven't.
You haven't made a skit.
Why haven't you made a skit?
Why is there no YouTube forthis?
What is wrong with you?

(48:43):
You?

Speaker 1 (48:44):
know like it's just like.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
People.
I'd be like people like you,just so chill I am, but I'm let
you know I'm the biggest, I'mthe nerdiest nerd in life.
I just also Grew up and Phillyalso realized stuff has to be
applicable and I try to applystuff the way I would want it
applied.
You know like why?
Yes, that's a great article.
Can we?
Can we put it to music or?

Speaker 1 (49:03):
yeah, is there a way to um?

Speaker 2 (49:05):
when I talk, talk to my kids about diagnosis of.
Like we talked about PTSD, Iused the song mine playing
tricks on me, the hip-hop songthat most of them know.
Um and been like okay, so breakout, break down the symptoms
and They'll never forget.
Avoid its cognitive distortionsand stuff like that.
Like, why be boring when wecould be fun?
Yo, like, why can't we just befun?

(49:26):
Learning is fun.
Why can't we like, come onDance and then cuz think about
how much we think, about howmuch work we put into this?
Yo, I'll be darned if I'm boredby my own words.
I'm not gonna be bored by myown word.
It took so much to do this.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
I'm see you.
I need to be entertained too.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
I'd be like, no, this could have been a, this could
have been a good skit girl.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
All right, I mean, I'm here with you at this
conference you're To get backinto, because I was, you know, I
did social media in a differentway.
I definitely started not reallytalking about my research and
then I just like I went too farinto the Monitization aspect
that has, like it was just toomuch.
So now I took a lot, I took alittle break, but Trying to work

(50:14):
my way back to it, but likeapproaching in a different way.
So you are definitely inspiringme to Um, stop overthinking.
I feel like that's a lot of usget in our head like we
overthink Okay, how are we, howis this gonna make sense and
who's gonna see it?
And what does this mean for Ten?
Or or the next job that I don'thave, because a lot of us don't
have?

Speaker 2 (50:34):
We're not even working.
We're over here worried aboutstuff right that part, um.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
So you're definitely inspiring me and I'm sure anyone
who's listening is.
As I said, if you are notfollowing Dr Martin please, I
didn't mean to, I know I'm likeclapping on kid, but you need to
follow her because you need tohave fun with it.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
Yeah, anytime that my anytime, my media, my content
changes is because I'll get,I'll board, I'll get bored by
something.
I'll be like I've been doingskits for a minute.
Let's do some lip syncing.
I've been talking about teacherfor a minute.
When's the last time I did like?
It's really just like toentertain me.
And the reason, like inacademia, it has trained us to
think that we don't know enough.
I'll talk to students andthey'll be like well, when you

(51:17):
know, when should I feelcomfortable discussing my level
of expertise?
When I'm, when I'm hyping mystudents up to be like we got
this dissertation defense, Ialways remind them girl, anybody
, let me say something.
Nobody is an expert on thistopic other than you in this
room.
Okay, don't let thisenvironment make you feel like
you don't know.
This study, that these studiesthat you've been doing, every
single literature Review.
This environment tries to makeyou feel like you don't know,

(51:38):
when you do know.
All of y'all who get ready foryour dissertation, committee
conference Presentation, allthat.
We don't know the informationas much as you do.
Yes, there's not a Now.
No one knows the information asmuch as you do.
And if you don't know theanswer, ask.
During my master's thesis, I gotasked a question.
I didn't know the answer.
My advisor was in the audience.
I said I actually don't knowthe answer to that question.

(51:59):
However, my advisor, who alsospecializes in this, do, and I
said would you like to answerthe question?
Um, dr Gruber, he loves oh mygod, he loves showing his
intellect.
But the fact that people werelike, oh my god, you were okay,
saying you didn't know.
Yeah, I'll trust somebody whosays they not right before I
trust somebody who said theyright.
All the time you expected me totap dance up here like a
freaking Sambo honey, no.

(52:20):
And also like I'm ready to gobecause after this thesis, my
man is taking me to eat.
So, like, I don't know, myadvisor is right there, ask him.
You know, don't make thesepeople make you feel as though
you gotta lie.
You know I don't know theanswer, but I could find it for
you.
Um, if you come to the nextreason, I don't know the answer,

(52:40):
but my advisor, who's beendoing this for 10 decades, does?
I just did this research studyin a year.
Why, why?
Why?
Why?
Would I know the answer?
Stop asking me stupid stuff.
Okay, ask someone else.
Like, but also don't feel likeyou don't know the, the amount
of expertise I had In minoritymental health disparities as it
comes to, like diagnosticdisparities, from, just from my
thesis, you, you know way moreThen you.

(53:02):
Then then this environment willmake you think and they try to
humble you.
They try to make sure that you,that you, don't understand your
information, because if yourealize how much you knew, you
would also realize that this isthis either is not the place for
you, yeah, or you need to talkyour ish a little bit more, yeah
, the reason why people would belike, oh, you know, trying to
humble me because this should belike oh well, this was from
this citation, this citation,that citation you may recognize

(53:22):
the name.
That's mine, um, and that's whyI'm telling you that that's the
answer.
Did you have other citationsthat, that, um, were
antithetical to my point?
No, you just wanted to make apoint.
Shut up, don't do that, don't dothat.
You're not, you're not.
And if I don't know the answer,I will be like the.
Were you aware of this articlethat came out a month ago?
I was not.
Can you tell me about it?

(53:42):
Oh Well, I'll, I'll read up onthat.
And you know what, since I'm inthe pursuit of intellect and
not in the pursuit of beingright All the time.
I can also understand theevolution of thought and some
things may teach me to know more, but I'm not going to sit here
and tap dance and act like it'swrong to be wrong.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Yeah, if you're, if you're learning about anything
you're going to realize you'rewrong.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
Why are we doing research to get answers to
questions that we don't know?
Um, don't let them make youthink you don't know.
Get on social media, talk yourstuff, even if it's.
I said like, I said this twicewith Dr Cola even just seeing
someone who looked like me, showlike what their journey was,
even like this is my cute outfitfor it today.
Oh, my god, bright colors andacademia.
What you can do that you don'thave to.

(54:22):
It doesn't have to be a blazerevery day, or it could be
something cute like even if it'sjust showing the fact that
we're here, yeah, we're out heredoing it.
Get on social media.
We won't know more than you.
And if someone does, guess what?
Oh, you might have just found amentor or a colleague to
collaborate with Absolutely,yeah, like just don't let people
.
That's how the the way theaspect of oppression like when

(54:43):
it comes to like injected, whichgoes into internalized
oppression, is like I tell mystudents all the time you only
somebody only has to call youstupid five times, you will call
yourself stupid the six.
That's what academia kind ofdoes.
We always feel so uncomfortable, just like you mentioned.
Well, how do I know if I knowenough about it?
And what if someone says you'rewrong?
Okay, thanks for that.
Are you gonna share theresource?
Are you gonna help me get right?

(55:03):
Or you just wanted to tell me Iwas wrong?
Get out of here Blot, you know.
Like what's the?
What's the point?
Don't overthink it.
I have been doing an entirepost.
I did a post one time aboutlike something with mental
health and I had rice on myshirt.
I ate rice off of my shirt,finished it, and it didn't get
away from the fact.
The fact is like this issomething that could help you.
Who cares?
Okay, I'm trying, listen, I'mtrying to help black people now

(55:24):
now am I gonna be wrongsometimes, yeah, but I'm trying
to help black people.
So, like, as long as I help 10people, I don't care if this
twist out is messed up, I don'tcare if I I look like I got the
number of times I almostreposted something just because,
like, oh, look at that, there'scrust on my mouth.
I'm not doing this again.
I'm not doing this again.
Oh, I forgot to include thatone resource.

(55:47):
Like, oh, I could have addedmore.
And so many people are like oh,my goodness, I never knew this.
Y'all need to record, y'allneed to collaborate, y'all need
to realize that first author isnot the only thing, and y'all
need to reach out.
I have gotten some amazingcollaborations by consistently
seeing names and research papersand I'm like they have similar
things.
I'm interested in reaching outand say could I collaborate with

(56:07):
you on something, dr Laurenmims, who I will be doing a talk
at South by Southwest edu4about afrofuturism and
cultivating environments.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
I legit was like girl .

Speaker 1 (56:17):
I love you.
Yeah, yeah, she's awesome.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
Your research is amazing.
Can I work with you onsomething?
And people be like what if theysaid no, she wouldn't, because
she's amazing, but if she didn'tsay no, then I'll be like do
you have any other colleagues?
Reach out, build the you know,build a community that you, you
need.
I didn't have those kind ofmentorships, so I reached out to
people like and don't feel asthough mentorship needs to be
someone above you.
Dr Lauren mims knows way moreabout um, um, um, racial

(56:43):
identity development when itcomes into the Um, uh, the
education space than I do, soshe is my mentor with that.
Dr Joma Alpara knows way moreabout black identity development
when it comes to substance useand substance abuse, so she's my
mentor with that.
Sometimes when we hear mentor,we think it has to be someone
who's older than us that knowsstuff, which can be the case,
but they just may know moreabout you in a topic.
Some people ask me to why I gota room for mentor.

(57:05):
But people ask me questionswhen it comes to mental health
research, even social media, andit doesn't have to be like a
repeated thing.
It can just be like we worktogether on something, but don't
don't let it stop you from whatkind of what kind of monster
would say no, you know, not evenknow, would just be like how
dare you reach out to me?
Some people will say no or notright now, which is
understandable, but what do youreally think?

(57:25):
We're going to curse you out?
Do you really think we aregoing to like, like, talk about
you, like, call you everythingbut a child of god For a stating
that I admire you when I'mneeding help?
I've never met a black womanwho has ever done that.
We, we are here for each otherlike we, literally we see each
other reach out.
You see, in the same names, onthese research studies and you

(57:46):
want to do similar stuff.
Send them an email.
You, you have a researcharticle that's behind a paywall.
Email the person, the point ofcontact, and say you need the
article.
I'm that dr Erlinger Turner,because he's a unicorn, he's a
black psychologist.
That's a man and there's noneout there.
And I was like a.
My university doesn't haveaccess to this article.
He was like here you go.
I don't get paid for everyclick, you know.

(58:07):
It's just like here you go.
Also, anything else I can helpwith?
Yes, come on my podcast, orelse.
Yes, you know, just reach out,Don't feel uncomfortable.
Utilize spaces like this likecohort sisters.
Listen to the podcast, writedown your goals and just go from
there.
Because it feels hard, becauseit is hard, but it doesn't have
to be more difficult.
It's going to be more difficultif you try to go at old school,

(58:29):
the way this elitist system isDon't.
If you feel as though you readan amazing article and you feel
like somebody else needs to know, do it.
Put the article in the caption.
No one else is going to read it, unless it's a nerd like me.
I read it every time, but justthink about the salience of
being able to hit even if it's50, 60, 70 people who, I say all
the time the amazing resourcesand recommendations that are in

(58:50):
the discussion sections ofjournals.
It's insane.
And the fact that people willhonestly think that publishing
this in a peer review journal iscomparable to actually like
making it accessible.
They know it's not right butthey also know that well, if we
kept making this accessible, howare we going to, how are you

(59:12):
going to make it like, how arewe going to gatekeep education?
I mean, how are we going tomake you guys think we're
geniuses when really someoneelse published a study that was
way better 10 days ago?
How are we, how are we going totrick you guys if we make it
accessible?
Like, oh my god, you're gonnacall me out on the fact that
that study was Bias.
You're gonna call me out on thefact that there weren't enough

(59:33):
black people in it.
I can't do that.
I need you to think I'm reallysmart, and the only way to do
that is to keep you out, becauseonce we get more people that
look like us, let me tell yousomething.
I've been in rooms with so manypeople smart people and every
single time I'm like yo, myfriend says something smarter at
happy hour and she was threedrinks in like I, I'll just be

(59:55):
sitting there.
Like michelle obama says.
All the time she has been inrooms with kings, queens,
geniuses, and when she steppedon campus at her, her
prestigious institution, she waslike this this, I felt her on
that.
I was just literally sittinghere like, um, my, my Friends

(01:00:19):
know more than you and I'm madthat they're not in this room
because, literally, but betterresearch ideas in happy hour
than ones that got milliondollar grants from NIH.
And I'll just be like myfriends will be like you know
what we should do, sick, youknow what we should do.
We Should go into schools andthen we should let these youth
create their own program and weshould ask them what they want

(01:00:41):
and then we should give it tothem.
What if we did that?
Never get funded girl, butlet's get these egg rolls, that
gets funded.
You're not anxious, y'all, don'tlet them talk you out.
She'll intellect you.
You got it, you got it, y'allhave it.
We, we stay with it.
You know the drip is effortless.

(01:01:01):
You know like it's.
It's a man, like the way ourbrain works, and part of that is
because we have to think thisway and have to be one step
ahead, and that part of it isthe result of oppression and
discrimination.
However, the end result iswe're bomb, we're bomb.
Remember this, that's that's.
I'ma leave y'all week because Ididn't talk dr Cole's ear up,
but i'ma tell you y'all got it.
And if anybody tell you, don'tgotta give, give me, give me,

(01:01:23):
give me their number in addressbecause when I say Dr Martin is
a few Supporter of black people.
I'll be like who did it?
Who told you that I won't?
I will attack them, maybephysically, maybe not.
I'm really crying.
I have Because that's what youneed, though that's what we need
.
We need people to say, oh well,oh well, they told me I

(01:01:45):
couldn't do the research.
Okay, well, let me handle this.
You stay out of this.
Okay, listen here, you moron.
If you don't give us this money, I will come to your home.
All right, I will burn it down.
Oh my God, give her this $500.
Don't hurt Martin, I willdestroy you Give it to us.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Oh, my God, I have never laughed so much, or I will
choke you out the whole HorsesPockets, episode I literally for
anyone who is just crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
We got to be fierce, y'all we got to be willing to
punch them in the throat Foranyone who is just crazy.
And I don't care.
I literally don't care, cause Iwill literally be like what you
going to do, fire me.
Girl, let me tell you something.
Okay, I have a job in twoseconds.
If you want to fire me, let mesend an email.
Dr Martin is unemployed.

(01:02:33):
Boom, I had a Hunter in myemail.
What you going to do?
Fire me.
First of all, my students wouldburn that place to the ground,
honey.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
They would be like oh no, you didn't no you didn't,
honestly, y'all think of.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
if the worst thing that they can threaten you with
is the firing you First of all.
First of all, I kind of wishsomebody would fire me because
of my black pride, because Ineed a new car.
I would own that place, butsecond of all, it's unfortunate
that people know not to beracist with me because I would
be rich, dr Cole, oh my God.
But people are just like soappropriate with me.
It's so unfortunate, but like,just realize your stating facts.

(01:03:15):
You're not being disrespectful,you're advocating for yourself.
Anyone who wants to fire youfor that, let them.
You will find a lawyer.
You can get on my platform.
Just give me a cut.
Like, listen, no one's going todo that.
They put this fear in youbecause if you start to advocate
for yourself, you will realizehow wrong that they are.
But there is a fear that we'regoing to get fired or we're

(01:03:35):
going to get and they genuinelycan't.
Right, no one can fire you forstating like hey, I've worked 72
hours this week.
I can't do this study right now.
Have them write that out to HR.
Have them write that out to thedean.
Students stated that theycouldn't work another 80 hours
this week.
I want to see you do it.
I want to see you tie, I wantto see your little Twitter

(01:03:56):
fingers type that and send thatto HR.
You know like, don't let thefear get to you.
Advocating for yourself,they're not going to be able to
fire you.
They're not going to be able tolet you go.
And also you have thiscommunity.
I'm serious when I say reachout because let me say something
, I'll send an alert to everylike yo they trying to fire one
of us.
When can we get out?
I know we got to fly coachbecause we ain't got no money,

(01:04:17):
but like can we make it?
Let's go Like.
That's what.
That's the beauty ofcommunities like this, right, if
y'all aren't on your own,you're not on your own, right?
We didn't have this.
It's amazing that you made this.
Thank God we didn't have this.
But now you do, right?
You have a whole community ofpeople willing to support you we
.
If this one thing black womenwill do is write out I don't

(01:04:38):
even need a full explanationbefore I got my shoes on Tell me
in the car.
Tell me in the car.
You know, I just got to be backin time for snacks for my
babies, but you know what?
We got three whole hours beforeI got another butt to white.
Let's do it Like you know.
Y'all have a whole community.
Use it.
There was nothing like thiswhen I was in school.
It would have helped me so much, and that's why it's like you

(01:05:01):
leave the legacy that you needed.
We create what you need.
Use it.
We'll write out.
I'm so serious too, like I'mfor affiliate.
I'm joking, but I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
It doesn't take much for me to be like be like she
said what to you when she saythat oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Let me just write this down so I can know what
words to use when I tell youthat I'm I'm gonna have Amanda
Seals.
Don Lemme, I'm gonna havepeople on the phone right now.
I'm gonna call Dr Bryant.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
I'm calling Dr Tama Bryant right now the president
of the NPA, and she's gonna getyou fired.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
She's not, she's actually.
She's reasonable, but still.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
Dr Martin, I cannot thank you enough for joining us.
I can't be serious, I can't.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
No, you are serious, I can't be serious and hilarious
at the same time, and that iswhy I absolutely appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'mso sorry.
I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.
I absolutely adore you.
I literally have not laughedthis much in a very long time,
which is probably sad.
I can probably laugh more.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
I can laugh more.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
I do.
I need to laugh more.
I'm taking.
One of the many things I'mtaking away is that I need to
laugh more because I, like I waslike I had my abs hurt a little
bit on one side.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
You have to stop from crying when you think about the
stuff we go through.
It's crazy.
Yeah, like I.
I laugh through parenting allday.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Like I genuinely have to convince you to wipe your
butt.
I'm a doctor, I have to talk.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
I have to.
I'm going back and forth withsomeone on the internet about
mental health and I have fourdegrees and they'll be like.
I'm not about to argue with you.
I'm not either, honey, Nope.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
What you talking about girls.
So much advice.
Thank you so much.
So, so, so much.
We're like 15 minutes over, butI'm so glad that you made time
for us today.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
Y'all better have stayed to the end, guys.
Okay, yes, if you had not beento the end.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
They would have just missed it.
So that's on them.
They want to just miss it.
But yes, I feel like we'regoing to need to have you back
on a part two in our next season, and so people should just stay
tuned.
But I'm sure they will followyou.
We'll have everything in theshow notes.
Thank you so much again foryour time, for your advice and
for your joy Of course.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
Thank you for having me.

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