September 13, 2023 • 48 mins
Have you ever felt that burnout is a badge of honor? We invite you to pause and re-evaluate as we introduce our next guest, the incredible Dr. Shaquinta Richardson - a life coach passionate about helping Black women prioritize self-care to find joy. Listen to Shaquinta's intriguing journey from a role in a Fortune 500 company to becoming a renowned therapist and how she navigated the complexities of pursuing a Ph.D. with grace and resilience.
Shaquinta's unique experiences juggling multiple roles - a professor, clinical director, private practice clinician, and a Ph.D. student, all at the same time and experience the strength and determination that led her to transition into a full-time life coach and business owner during the peak of the global pandemic. We'll also delve into the nitty-gritty of her upcoming book, Gifted Black Women Navigating the Doctoral Process, and learn her innovative strategy of 'radical self-care'.
This conversation will challenge your narrative of success and guide you toward embracing rest and self-care to achieve it. Get ready to transform your approach to life as Shaquinta shares her insights on therapy, gratitude, and the importance of self-care in maintaining physical and mental health. If you're an aspiring or current doctoral student, you'll find her advice on slowing down and recharging to be invaluable in your journey. Join us to learn, unlearn, and relearn the essence of living a fulfilling life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ijeoma Kola (00:04):
Welcome to the Cohort Sisters podcast, where we
give voice to the stories,struggles and successes of Black
women and non-binary scholarswith doctoral degrees.
I'm your host, dr Jelma Cola,and today we have Dr Shakwinta
Richardson, a visionary lifecoach dedicated to helping Black
women prioritize self-care,find joy and reshape their
(00:26):
definitions of success.
Through the PhD in humandevelopment and family science
from the University of Georgia,dr Shakwinta's coaching centers
on intergenerational influencesand the transformative power of
radical self-care.
Hailing from South Carolina anda proud graduate of HBCU, dr
Richardson's coaching empowersBlack women to realign their
(00:49):
lives, embracing harmony andself-belief.
Her insights into thechallenges Black women face,
combined with her dynamicapproach to coaching, offer a
pathway to create vibrant,fulfilling lives, so we're
thrilled to have you on thepodcast, dr Shakwinta.
Welcome.
Shaqunita Robinson (01:05):
Thank you.
Thank you, I'm so excited.
I'm so excited for this.
Ijeoma Kola (01:09):
I am too, so tell us a little bit about who you
are, offline, kind of like inreal life Like who are you?
Shaqunita Robinson (01:16):
We know that you're from the Carolinas.
Ijeoma Kola (01:18):
Where do you live now?
What do you like to do outsideof work?
Shaqunita Robinson (01:23):
All right.
So, like I'm from SouthCarolina, I currently live in
Houston with my wife and my twodogs, who like to make a lot of
noise, so please forgive me ifthey, you know, make themselves
heard.
But yeah, so I enjoy just kindof relaxing, chilling, exploring
.
Houston Actually moved here in2020, middle of 2020.
(01:46):
And so I'm just now getting toreally like explore and see what
Houston really has to offer.
So a lot of my time has beenjust going to coffee shops, you
know, figuring out where thosefun spaces are.
There's a black on bookstorehere, so I'm a heavy reader, so
there are a lot and just makingconnections and you got to find
(02:06):
my face in a book most of thetime.
Ijeoma Kola (02:10):
I love it.
My best friend lives in Houstonand my older brother, just in
his family, just moved toHouston, so there's some good
people in Houston.
I feel like you're a goodperson and I'd love to kind of
just start from the beginning.
You know how did you getinterested in human development
and family science?
Is that like?
Did you even know what that waswhen you were a kid?
(02:30):
Walk us through like yourchildhood and how you ended up
specializing in that field.
Shaqunita Robinson (02:36):
Yes, okay, I'm glad you asked for like the
full start.
Okay, so, like, where do Istart with this?
Because it is very much awinding path, so I'll start with
this, yeah.
Ijeoma Kola (02:46):
Yeah.
Shaqunita Robinson (02:49):
So start with, you know, growing up I
came from you know background,limited resources, single parent
, my single parent home.
My dad was in and out of prison, as when I was growing up, and
there was always the narrative Iwas a gifted kid, you're going
to be a doctor, you should be adoctor or lawyer, Lawyer that
did not, that never appealed tome.
But you should be a doctor, youshould be a doctor.
(03:09):
So I went through my entire youknow, elementary, through high
school career thinking I wasgoing to be a doctor, a
physician.
And I got to a point, was likeI don't know if I want that or
not.
And then freshman biology hitfreshman chemistry and I was
like, you know, I actually don'tlike science, so this might be
(03:30):
difficult to continue thiscareer when I actually don't
enjoy this, this type ofknowledge, at all.
So at that point I I didn'tknow what I wanted to do,
because what I didn't have a lotof like other conversations and
models for other careers.
Yeah, it was like you're smart,be a doctor or lawyer.
(03:50):
There wasn't a lot ofadditional conversation about
what other options were.
So freshman year of college,it's first month of classes, and
I'm like what do I want to do.
I tell the story before andit's, it's ridiculous, but also
it just is what it is.
I was watching two can playthat game.
The movie to complain, and thenthe Fox's character and I think
(04:14):
when you cut Rock L Robinson'scharacters, I think they both
were like marketing executivesand like these you know powerful
women and did it.
So I was like, okay, I want tobe a marketing executive.
Immediately changed my major tobusiness and marketing, so, and
then, you know, went through myentire college career, got my
degree in marketing and I wentinto my first job at a fortune
(04:34):
500 company, major, major, majorretail.
Did I say is it okay to saywhere it worked If you want to?
So got my first job at Target,If it needs to be kind of a game
.
But yeah, my first job was atTarget as a business analyst.
So I'm working in, you know,Target headquarters.
I'm feeling really good.
Big shit.
I'm sorry I was big stuff.
(04:57):
You know this was the most moneyI'd ever made or ever seen,
anybody in my family had everseen or whatever, and I thought
I had made it.
And then I get into the roleand I hate it.
I hate everything about it.
I hate my day to day.
I hate how I was treated.
(05:18):
I hate how like what theexpectations were.
I just I did not like the kindof work that I was doing in the
kind of environment that I wasin and I started to do some
reflection.
I found a mentor there, startedto do some reflection and
realized that everything that Iactually liked about my job had
nothing to do with my role.
(05:38):
It was all about the peopleportion of it.
So then decided to leave,decided to become a therapist
Complete shift.
Decided to become a therapist.
I went to get my masters inmarriage and family therapy.
Then the transition from therewas to University of Georgia and
(05:58):
it's human development andfamily science with an emphasis
in marriage and family therapy.
So like that's the program, sothat's how I got into human
development and family science.
So yeah, that was my journey tothat degree.
Ijeoma Kola (06:13):
So did you know any therapist you kind of talked
about, you realized it was thepeople at work that interested
you and not actually your role.
But then I feel like you couldhave gone into different.
There are other roles or otherkind of like disciplines that
deal with people.
So why therapy?
And then why marriage andfamily therapy?
Shaqunita Robinson (06:32):
So just some .
Well, a mentor gave me anexercise to do and it was like
looking at what are yourinterests, what are your
passions, what are the thingsthat I'm excited to do, what are
the things that you usuallyquestion or lean towards, and a
lot of it was a counseling typeof thing.
So I really enjoyed havingconversations with people,
(06:52):
learning about them, learningabout how they think and how
things work, and then also likerelationships, and so not just
the individual part, but likehow do people like relationships
work, how do familyrelationships work?
So I did some research becauseI was in business.
My first thought was industrialand organizational psychology,
(07:16):
but I don't know about thateither and then just discovered,
through some more research,discovered the field of marriage
and family therapy.
I didn't know it was a thingprior to that.
So it's just that the exercisethat I did and then some
research led me to marriage andfamily therapy.
Ijeoma Kola (07:30):
So thanks for sharing your journey on how your
kind of like first role, firstvery big role led you to the
realization and thanks to thehelp of the mentor that that
wasn't the right fit for you,but you found another field so.
I'm always interested when Ispeak to people who kind of end
up as counselors or therapists,because there are so many
different kinds of degrees intherapy and in counseling.
(07:53):
So why get a PhD?
Why not stop at a master's?
Why not do a social work degreethat also allows you to do
counseling?
Why get a doctoral degree inthe field?
Shaqunita Robinson (08:07):
So in the program that I was in my
master's program there was a oneblack professor and she was an
adjunct professor and so thatwas the only exposure I had to a
black professor at that time.
And I also had anotherprofessor who she was a white
(08:28):
professor but she she graduatedfrom my PhD program and so while
we were in our master's programthe she was going through her
dissertation, so she was in herinternship phase of in the
station phase of her journey andso we knew a little bit about
it.
She shared a bit of it with usand so had that as like curious
(08:54):
and then had the black professorand then I was coming to the
end of my program and I couldeither go into straight into
practice because the master's isa terminal degree, so I could
go into that or I could in mymind my fullest potential and
become the best I can be.
(09:15):
And all the little black girlsneed to know that this is
possible.
Like that was all a part of mythought.
If I can, I should that wholenarrative.
And then there aren't many ofus, so I need to be one of the
ones.
That is an example.
So that's why I pursued the PhDhad you know, all of these like
my potential and I need to dothat, so that's why I did it.
(09:38):
I had no reference.
Ijeoma Kola (09:47):
Yes, that was my follow up question because I'm
like I'm hearing you say likeyou wanted to do it because of
the like, the future impact, thefuture potential impact.
But so I was going to ask youknow, you had the, the adjunct
professor's mentor, and alsosomeone else who was getting a
doctoral degree, but did youWere you exposed to a lot of
(10:09):
people who, yeah, can you speaka little bit more to what you
knew and what you didn't knowbefore you started the doctoral
degree, and maybe what you wishyou had known, like once you
actually got into the degree?
Shaqunita Robinson (10:21):
Mm-hmm.
So I knew that you could be aprofessor.
That's what I knew.
It's like oh, they have thisdegree, it's the highest degree
that you can receive.
It's, you know, a very big,like big title on all those
things.
And that was it.
That's what I knew, even thoughthese two professors as I was
going through the process ofapplying and all they, like, you
(10:43):
know it's a research degree,it's a research degree.
A PhD is a research degree.
Okay, my experience of researchup to that point was an
undergraduate and master's levelunderstanding of, like clinical
, master's understanding of whatresearch meant.
That meant going Googling,looking up some articles, and
(11:05):
that's what research meant to me.
So they kept saying it's aresearch degree and I'm like,
okay, cool, all right, cool, Igot you and I had no idea what I
was getting myself into.
I had no idea, no idea.
(11:25):
So I knew that with a PhD, youcould be a professor and there
was this thing that people callresearch.
That is a major part of thatdegree.
That's what I knew.
Ijeoma Kola (11:36):
Yeah, yeah, sounds like you were in for a really
big shock.
So what were some of thesuccesses of your program?
And then what were some of thechallenges that you faced?
Shaqunita Robinson (11:48):
Okay.
So my doctoral journey was veryI don't know that it was unique
, because just in how like Ijust know, you know, black women
, we have different stories butwe also have similar stories in
some ways.
So my experience I went into it.
Not only was I not prepared forthe research part of it, I
(12:09):
didn't truly understand whatthat was, I was not prepared for
the financial aspect of it, andso I had, you know, my tuition
was covered through myassistantship, all that good
stuff, but my stipend was notenough to live on.
And all of the preparation, allthe planning that I did you
(12:30):
know I'm a financial plannerdown to the, to the, to the T,
but I still I wasn't preparedfor just the day to day and how,
how much things could flush,fluctuate, things that I would
have to pay for, that I didn'tknow that I was going to have to
pay for my conferences andthings that we were required to
(12:51):
go to and get reimbursed for in,like those types of things.
So I had a very rough firstsemester financially.
I lost I won't say I losteverything, but I almost lost
everything.
My car was repossessed, I hadto move into an apartment, a
four person apartment with threeundergrads.
(13:13):
I my credit cards got like itwas.
It was bad.
It was bad, bad like I was.
I was about to be out of there.
It's like this is not worth it.
This was all in the firstsemester like this, out of here.
So there, that was that pieceand thankfully, my professors
(13:33):
because I've always beenpersonally I'm like I'm not
going to suffer in silence,that's just that's never been me
, and so I express what wasgoing on and so they ended up
helping me get that part inorder.
But I literally spent the nextyear and some of the years just
trying to get my like financial,personal life together so that
I wasn't homeless and hungry.
So I had a lot of focus on mypersonal stuff because of that
(14:00):
and then, like just having tomanage being a first year and
not knowing what I was doing.
So first year was really reallyit was hard.
It was really hard.
I had, I was out of there.
I had replied to like 40 jobs.
It's like I'm getting out ofthis.
Yeah, it was, and I had acompany use me with myself over
(14:21):
the Christmas break and it was.
It was like it's all gone.
It's gone now.
There's nothing you can doabout it?
It's gone, it's happened.
You're doing this, you'rewhatever.
What do you want?
Not standing this like place offrustration, and you know my
emotional space of you knowfeeling bad about myself, shame,
(14:43):
all those things.
What do you actually want?
And literally from that momenton, I decided that I still want
this.
I want to figure this out.
Yeah, I didn't know what I wasdoing coming into it, but I've
had some classes now, I've beenin these spaces with these
people and they were alreadygetting on my nerves with you
know, with the racism and themicroaggressions.
(15:05):
I'm like, okay, I'm here, I'mgoing to do this.
So I decided to keep going andjust figure it out.
And from that point forward Iwas also able to find a chair
who really made my experiencemuch, much, much better than I
(15:27):
think it would have been if Ihad any other, any other chair.
So that first year was kind ofunique in just all of the
turmoil, but it the last three,four years, were made up by
having a chair who was reallyunderstanding, really kind and
(15:47):
helping me create and carve outexperiences and will allow me to
carve out experiences.
That made my doctoral journeybeautiful.
I was able to do some things,and I'll stop there because I'm
going on.
But I was able to do somereally amazing things through my
doctoral journey because of thechair that I had and the
mindset that I had of like I'mgonna make the best of this.
I'm not gonna let this takeanything else from me, and I say
(16:08):
all the time.
Yet if I'm gonna do this, Isaid at that point if I'm gonna
do this, I'm gonna come out ofthis a whole person.
I don't care what that means, Idon't care what that takes, if
that means I'm not the mostpublished, if that means that I
don't have the best research,whatever that means, but I'm
gonna come out of this a wholeperson.
Ijeoma Kola (16:27):
Ooh, the gems are already being dropped.
Wow, okay, so there's thewholeness.
There's the financial surprise,really, of the cost of, like
the hitting cost of graduateschool, right, I feel like this
reimbursement story is.
It comes up so many timesbecause folks don't realize the
upfront costs and even waitingfor your first stipend check.
(16:50):
I don't know about you.
I remember that first stipendcheck, the income when I thought
it was gonna come and I waslike ooh well, I thought I was
gonna be there at the first dayof school and it was not for
several weeks.
So hopefully that's advice forfolks who are thinking about it,
planning for it.
Just know some of the financialupfront costs of the early
(17:10):
stages but I really, really loveyour mindset about I'm gonna do
it and behold whatever thatmeans, whatever costs, so I
think that's reallyinspirational.
I wanna touch on this chairthat kinda came into your life
because I have a pretty similarstory where I was really really
(17:32):
struggling and then someonejoined the department and I
latched onto him, was like hewill see me through.
So how did you develop arelationship with this faculty
member, the chair, who was ableto provide you with the
appropriate mentorship andguidance to really see you
through?
And what advice do you have forother people who are kind of
(17:55):
seeking out their fairygodmother in the package into a
doctoral advisor or kind ofstruggling to find that person
who can really hold them down?
Shaqunita Robinson (18:06):
So the way that I found her, so the part
that I didn't speak to.
When I was going through mymaster's program, I was also
working full time as acoordinator for an intellectual
and developmental disabilitiesboard in my hometown.
So that ended up being myresearch focus adults with
(18:27):
intellectual and developmentaldisabilities and so we had a
institute for human developmentat the University of Georgia and
so she was the director of theinstitute and so it was like
perfect, like research interest.
But my first year I didn'tthink that she could be.
I knew she could be on mycommittee.
(18:49):
I didn't know that she could bemy chair because I thought it
was a different department.
Turns out she was actually, liketechnically, she was in my
department and so it was justlike this is perfect, this is
she's the only one who was doingthe kind of research or who had
the experience in everythingthat I needed to go through my
(19:11):
program and do the research thatI wanted to do.
So that just aligned when itjust it became more than I ever
knew I needed was just she'sjust a beautiful, gracious
person and kind person and Ithink some of that I friendly,
believe that a lot of it comesfrom the actual work with folks
(19:33):
with intellectual anddevelopmental disabilities and
just having a differentperspective on labor and work
and expectations andintelligence and gifts and X, y
and Z.
So I think that just made her alot more aware Because some
other things that were happening, like during while I was in my
PhD program it was during thatperiod of time where there was a
(19:54):
slew of Treyvon Martin happenedLike in that background,
exactly exactly.
Ijeoma Kola (20:06):
I was in the same time so I know yeah.
Shaqunita Robinson (20:10):
Back to back to back and she was very aware
and also gave me a lot of spaceto be human during those times.
If I said I need I can't, todayshe's like I understand If I'm
not feeling well, I understand,do what you need to do.
(20:33):
Like she expected me to get mywork done, of course, but that
didn't require me to ignore whenthings were messed up or not
going well.
So that was beautiful.
She had the funding that Ineeded.
Now, even with the highest levelof funding for a PhD program,
(20:53):
it's still not enough to liketruly live, but she was still
able to provide me with that Atone point.
Like my car was messed up.
Like she helped me.
I don't even know if it's okayfor me to say some of these
things, but she just helped mein a lot of ways.
(21:14):
Just yeah, I won't go into alot of these fields, but she
helped me on the human side ofthings in a lot of ways, while
also helping me create aresearch project on dissertation
that I felt really good about.
Like she supported the thingsthat I wanted to look at in my
research.
Ijeoma Kola (21:33):
Yeah, I think that's so hard to find in such a
gift.
I'm so happy that you were ableto find someone who could do
the dual work, and often we'lltalk.
You know, during our mentorshipprogram we tell folks that
often your advisor can't supportyou emotionally, like they're
not trained to do that, theydoes not their job, and so you
often need to build a kind oflike a circle of mentors, some
(21:56):
of whom will pour into youpersonally, some of whom will
pour into you professionally,academically.
You know whatnot, whatnot, butyou know, to be able to find
someone who can pour into you inmultiple ways is such a gift
and such a blessing.
So I'm really really excitedthat you were able to to find
that in her.
Shaqunita Robinson (22:14):
And then the second part of your question
was like tips, like not tips,but like advice for people on
how to find that and honestly Idon't know what to tell you Feel
like she was a gem.
You know, I really don't know,but I do think it's important to
kind of like observe and seehow people just communicate, how
they treat other people, causeeven if it's it might not be the
(22:36):
person that has like the mostaligned research, that might not
be the person that is the bestperson to be the chair that
happened to be the case with mebut I think it's equally as
powerful to have someone whoseresearch might not is like
specifically aligned, but thatyou mesh with and it's gonna
advocate for you.
So that's all I can say on that.
Ijeoma Kola (22:57):
That's a really good piece of advice.
The research topic alignmentisn't always what's most
important.
Yeah, that's really good.
Hopefully the people are takingnotes today.
So earlier, when you said thatyou kind of like not ended up in
a doctoral program but pursuedit because you wanted to excel
but didn't really know muchabout it when you were in your
(23:18):
doctoral program, what were youthinking of?
Like what would be your nextsteps?
Were you thinking of, maybeI'll become a counselor and a
therapist, maybe I'll have aprivate practice, maybe I'll
teach, like what were some ofthe the different career options
that were floating in your mind, like while you were still
dissertating?
Shaqunita Robinson (23:36):
All of that.
I had, at that point, fullybought into the scholar
practitioner model I had.
I was planning to go on andbecome a professor while also
practicing on the side andallowing my, my teaching and my
research to inform my practiceand my practice to inform my
teaching and my research.
So, yeah, I had fully boughtinto the, the scholar
(23:57):
practitioner model.
And that's you know, initially,what I did.
So, yeah, yeah, okay, I justhad bought into.
Ijeoma Kola (24:06):
I'm curious why you use the language bought into
like do you cause you?
Just unpack that a little bit,unpack that forever.
Shaqunita Robinson (24:13):
Uh huh, uh huh.
So being a professor is a it'san undertaking.
It's an undertaking, it's, itis a role, and it's even in our
PhD program.
So, like I said, it was humandevelopment and family science,
with an emphasis in marriage andfamily therapy.
So there's, they didn't takeaway classes for the from the,
(24:37):
the human development and familyscience.
They just added some on andadded additional requirements,
and so we got used to not onlygo into classes and doing
research, which our colleagues,our peers had to do, that only
had the human development andfamily science, but then we also
had this extra set ofrequirements as well.
And so, you know, it becamenormalized.
(24:59):
But essentially, you're doingtwo different jobs, and when
being professors already a heavyload, and so you know, going
into the work was like, yeah,get used to doing two jobs.
So that's what I mean by aboutit's like this doesn't sound
like a great idea.
(25:20):
On the other side of like whenyou actually want to be able to
do things outside of work.
So that's what I mean when Isay that like it's, it's a lot.
Ijeoma Kola (25:30):
Yeah, I've never thought of like the scholar
practitioner role as as two jobs, but like now that you put it
that way, I could totally seethat I know there are a lot of
people also.
I think psychology and therapyand counseling is one field
where the scholar practitioneroften exists.
Public health is another onewhere I think people can often
(25:52):
consider themselves that in thatrole and it's never a courage.
But you 100% right, it reallyjust is two different jobs Full
time.
So that is something for folksto think about.
You know, if they want to stillpursue those interests, like
you really still want to dopractice, kind of community
based work or clinical work, andyou still want to do academic
(26:14):
work just kind of know whatyou're getting into.
So then, what did you end updoing when you graduated?
It sounds like walk us throughyour posts immediately right
after graduation your careertrajectory to where you are now.
Shaqunita Robinson (26:28):
Yes, okay.
So immediately after graduationI ended up.
So my master's program was inmy hometown.
I didn't say that part, but mymaster's program was in my
hometown and so then theprofessor that the professor
that was finishing up herdissertation when I was in my
master's program she had becomethe program director of the
(26:48):
program.
So I was able to do like myinternship there, do some
teaching and supervision tofinish my degree at the at my
master's program.
So that naturally apply fordifferent places, but that just
seemed to be the best fit for meto get my first job.
So I ended up.
My first academic professorshipwas at my master's, the
(27:10):
university master's program, andso I was a senior professor and
clinical director in thatprogram for two years after I
graduated.
And so it's a.
It's a.
It's a teaching heavy program.
So there's not a lot ofresearch, but there was still
some.
We still do some like smallresearch projects, but it was
(27:32):
mostly practitioner basedteaching.
Practitioner based.
I had to teach multiple classesand also supervise master
students and also, you know,clinical director role and quite
frankly, the salary wouldn'twhat I wanted, when, what I need
(27:55):
it, and then also having to getmy hours from a licensure and
all that at the same time.
So I'm full time professor,clinical director, doing
supervision, teaching, all ofthat.
And the next year I didn'tstart my private practice right
away, but then I started myprivate practice a year after
(28:16):
graduating, and so full timeprofessor and part time private
practice as well.
So like I got two jobs and thenI was also finishing our, so I
had an additional role as afellow at a clinic, at the
clinic that we as well.
So full time professor, fellowat the clinic, part time private
(28:39):
practice Three different jobs.
It was a lot and still thesalary wasn't like then it was a
lot better because I had thesupplemental, but like I'm
having to do three differentroles to get to a salary that I
felt comfortable with.
That, you know, I felt like itwas what I, what I wanted to
(29:01):
what I needed.
So then 2020 hits.
I had already planned to getmarried my husband and wife and
moving to Houston, so that wasalready in the plans to happen.
So I had decided that I wasgoing to leave academia and go
into practice full time and,honestly, I had I don't know.
(29:23):
Even since I was young, I waslike I don't want to teach, I
don't ever want to be a teacher.
That's not something I everwant to do.
I've been a student for 20years.
My student, I love my students.
I enjoyed the experience of it,but it's still not me like I
don't enjoy being an educator inthat way, so left that part
behind, but still wanted tocontinue being a practitioner.
(29:44):
So I the plan was to move toHouston in 2020.
And lean into private practicefull time.
I had already had it part time,leaving private practice full
time, and that is what happened.
And then I added on my coachingpractice.
I started my coaching businessaround that time as well, and so
(30:06):
it was full time or part time.
You know, a full time practice,private practice and then
coaching as well.
So I had these, both of theseroles, and that's where I am now
.
Ijeoma Kola (30:17):
Yes, did the pandemic and you were talking
about.
You already were planning ondoing all of this in 2020.
How, if at all, did thepandemic adjust your plans or
accelerate them or break puttingout, put a break on them, or
did it change anything in anyway for you?
Shaqunita Robinson (30:37):
So and this, this is the part that's always,
you know, difficult to talkabout because it was very
helpful to my plans.
I had already like, there, whenwe're talking, I made these
decisions in 2019.
Okay, you know 2019, so I'malready looking at.
(30:59):
Online therapy was not a majortopic at that point, like some
people were doing it, but it wasstill like what's this thing,
what are people doing?
And so I had already planned tostart, because I'm only at that
point.
I was licensed in SouthCarolina, I wasn't licensed in
Texas yet, and so I could onlypractice in South Carolina, and
(31:19):
so I had planned to do atelehealth online therapy
practice.
But I knew it was gonna bedifficult because people weren't
used to doing online therapy.
March comes, everybody has togo online.
So that worked out really wellfor me, because, if everybody
has to, now I don't have thisbarrier, this like challenge of
(31:44):
convincing my clients orconvincing new clients of
building my practice with thisthing that people don't know
about.
So it was actually very, veryhelpful in making that
transition.
Ijeoma Kola (31:59):
And now do you feel like there is still enough kind
of like social comfort withtelehealth and virtual therapy,
or do you feel like people arekind of starting to move back
into wanting and desiringin-person therapy services?
Shaqunita Robinson (32:16):
So I think people have now really taken to
it, and a lot of people preferthe online therapy because it's
so convenient.
You don't have to drive tosomeone's office.
You can do it on a break, whileyou're at work and anytime of
the day.
So I think that it's made itreally convenient for people,
and so I think more people arereluctant to go back to
(32:37):
in-person, but I do find thatthere are some people who are
missing that in-personinteraction.
So I think it's the majoritystill like the online model, but
I do think that a good numberof people are starting to feel
the need to just be in theenergy in the same space as
punishable.
Ijeoma Kola (32:54):
Yes, so I have we're gonna kind of go off
script a little bit, cause Icame across you very recently in
your work because you postedwhat is now a viral Instagram
(33:15):
post of you wearing youracademic regalia.
And for folks who don't know,that's like the gown that you
get when you get your doctoraldegree and you were sitting on
your couch or at arm chair,reading and drinking wine, I
believe, and with a fantasticcaption, and so I wanna know.
You kind of said, like you'dlike your students, but you knew
(33:37):
that you didn't wanna be aneducator.
How did you kind of come toterms with?
You know, after doing thiswhole long degree, you've got
the robe, you've got the degree,and now you are working in a
role that you could have donewithout the degree, like without
the PhD.
And I'm asking thisspecifically because, again, the
(33:58):
field that you're in, there arefolks who do therapy, who do
coaching, without a PhD.
So how did you kind ofreconcile that?
You know I have this degree andI'm doing this work that I
really love, but, like, did Ineed the degree?
And like, what am I gonna dowith the robe?
So just love for you to expandon that a little bit.
Shaqunita Robinson (34:15):
Yeah, so, and I think that goes to just my
personality and my just one ofmy life, like philosophies, ways
of looking at life.
And could I have done itwithout the PhD?
Absolutely absolutely.
And do I think that it wasneeded?
That's hard to answer becausethe degrees, like having the PhD
(34:40):
, having the degree specificallylike that 10th part of it, is
not the only thing that I gotfrom the PhD experience.
And so in my coaching practice,in my therapy practice and my
personal life, like just who Iam, was shaped by the PhD
journey.
(35:00):
What I learned about feminism,womanism, came through that
journey, Abelism came throughthat journey, Knowledge of human
development came through thatjourney.
I use that in my coachingpractice understanding
relationships, understandingsystems.
In my master's program we get abase level understanding of
(35:23):
systems theory.
In the PhD program it'severything Like it's kind of the
basis of human development,family science, and so I use my
systems knowledge as a coach.
So, yeah, I think the way Ithink about life and the way I
think about things is like I dolean into the journey and all of
(35:46):
this was part of like leadingme to this path.
I don't know where I would havebeen, I don't know what my
journey would look like if I hadgone straight into practice.
So, yeah, like I could have.
But that just would have been adifferent path, A different
journey, a different outcome,and I like this outcome and I'm
(36:08):
able to use it, even if it's notas a professor.
Ijeoma Kola (36:12):
Yeah, I think that's really valuable,
especially for people you know,myself included, who is still
trying to figure out, like I amin an academic career and still
keeping an open mind and verymuch exploring.
Obviously I also do this worktoo, but I think that's
something that kind of holdspeople.
(36:33):
That, from what I've heard bytalking to some folks, is like
something that sometimes holdspeople in the academic spaces is
because they feel like, well,if I go do something else, like,
what was the reason, what wasthe purpose of the whole degree.
So I really like what you saidabout you know, you didn't just
get the degree that you gainedother things you gained under
(36:53):
other skills.
You gained other knowledge thatyou otherwise wouldn't have had
, that you applied to your workand your personal life, and I
think that that kind of holisticapproach to thinking about the
end result and the product of adoctoral program is really
helpful for folks.
I'm now gonna like reflect on,besides the paper and this, like
really niche knowledge that Igot.
(37:14):
What did I get?
Shaqunita Robinson (37:15):
from my doctor degree.
Ijeoma Kola (37:16):
That was really, really helpful.
Yeah, I really really like thatframework.
Fantastic A plus.
There's a reason why you're alife coach Like gems just such
good gems I would.
Before we started recording,you were talking about a really
exciting project that you havecoming up a book.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout the edited book that you
(37:38):
have coming out soon, why youended up working on the project
and you know when it's comingout and how can we learn more
about it?
Shaqunita Robinson (37:45):
Yes, yes, so have an edited book coming out.
It'll be released October 18thand it's gifted black women
navigating the doctoral process.
Sister Insider.
And this book was literallythought up between what me and
so it's myself and Dr BrittanyNicole Anderson, who was at the
University of Charlotte.
(38:05):
She's a gifted ed scholar thereand we started our PhD programs
at the same time she's she wasin education and we were writing
.
One day this was like 2016.
Maybe 2015, 2016, we were inthe cafeteria, in the dining
hall at University of Georgiaand just talking about we should
(38:26):
do this thing, and that iswhere it started.
So this book is a collection ofour stories and a few of our
friends who were also scholarsat University of Georgia at the
same time we were.
One of the most powerful thingsabout our doctoral journey was
(38:49):
the community that we had.
We had a very, very uniqueexperience of having dozens of
black women who were allconnected and we were able to,
you know, have community andconnect with each other, support
each other and help get eachother through, and so we're like
(39:09):
, we want to put this, we wantto like box this up and like
share it, share black women, andthat's what we did.
So it's, you know, ourindividual stories and
experiences going through ourdoctoral journeys, with whatever
specific aspects of our ownexperiences, whatever that was.
(39:29):
And so, yeah, we share some ofour story.
They each share their story.
We share some, you know,nuggets of wisdom, some tools
and things.
It's beautiful.
So it'll be out October 18thand the pre-order starts, I
think, september 27th.
Ijeoma Kola (39:47):
Yeah, okay, yeah, we'll definitely make sure to
put links in the show notes sofolks can get it, and we would
love to have you do like a booktalk with the cohort sisters
community.
If you'd be open to that.
That would be amazing.
It sounds like a resource thata lot of people need, whether or
not they're, especially forfolks who are currently in a
doctoral program, but alsopeople who are?
(40:08):
thinking about applying.
You know, just want to get moreperspectives.
So thank you for doing the workand thank you for having that
cafeteria idea.
You know, see it to fruition.
It's not easy to pull togetherany kind of work, let alone an
edited volume.
You know wrangling folks.
So kudos to you.
I'm really, really excited forthe launch.
(40:29):
I'm sure you're more excited,but I'm really excited to
support the book launch in anyway that we can.
So as we start to wind down, Ihave I have a question about
self care, because it's such abuzzword that people really like
to throw out.
But you kind of harp on radicalself care as like really big,
(40:49):
foundational in your coachingwork.
So I would love to know haveyou defined radical self care
and what strategies do yourecommend to black women and non
binary folks for incorporatingit into our lives?
Shaqunita Robinson (41:02):
So I define radical self care is is just
truly caring for yourself, thehuman, like prioritizing,
centering yourself as a humanbeing who is worthy of and has a
right to being cared for, andregardless of whatever's going
(41:23):
on externally, it doesn't matter.
You know what your, what yourwork is, what your role is.
That you get to take care ofyour basic human needs and your
basic desires above everythingelse.
That you do not have to earnrest, that you do not have to
earn breaks, that you do nothave to earn a meal, that you
can just have these thingsbecause you exist.
(41:45):
And I believe that once wetruly honor that we are human
and that we have means and thatwe require rest, and then we
require space for our brains torecover and have space to not
constantly be working and doingand have to be productive.
(42:06):
That it allows us a fullerexperience of life.
So I mean you know I hear allthe time, you know had to throw
something in my mouth, got tokeep moving, got to do this, got
to do this.
I didn't eat today because of x, y and z.
I didn't do enough.
I got to get this done before Ican.
And then, when we do sit down,we pause our brain, we can't, we
(42:27):
can't slow it down, so we gotto do something else and you
know that's that comes from adeep seated place, but it's
hurting us and it has harmed usfor centuries.
And so, yeah, it's reallyre-centering the human in the
life, de-centering the work,because we got to work, you know
(42:51):
, most of us we got to work insome capacity.
Even if capitalism wasn't athing, there would still be
roles, there would still bethings that we have to do to
keep society functioning, and soit's.
But it's de-centering thiscapitalistic way of doing it
that ignores that we're notmachines here just for the
production, for the, you know,glorification of someone else.
(43:11):
So it's truly meeting our needsfirst, and then other things
will fall into place, likehaving that faith and belief
that other things will fall intoplace.
Ijeoma Kola (43:23):
I love that so much and I'm going to challenge
myself to at least to take onething.
My one thing I'm taking away isthat you don't need to earn a
break.
That narrative is somethingthat I definitely feel like okay
, well, I just got to do X, y, zand then I can take a break.
So I'm my one little changethat I'm going to make is baby
(43:45):
steps y'all, but for me, whatreally stood out is this idea
that you don't need to earn rest, you don't need to earn breaks.
You deserve them and your bodyneeds them.
So thank you so much for sharingthat and for continuing to do
the work of just kind ofre-educating us on how to take
care of ourselves and how to putourselves first.
It's such important work andI'm really glad that folks like
(44:07):
you get to be able to do it forus.
So we like to ask all of ourguests two questions, just kind
of like reflecting on theirjourney.
So if, for some strange reason,you had to do your doctoral
degree all over again, what isone thing that you would do
differently?
Shaqunita Robinson (44:26):
If I had to do it again, what is one thing I
would do differently?
Honestly, speak up more.
I think I would speak up more.
Yeah, I think I would speak upfor myself, speak up for the
collective more, in spaces whereI felt silenced because I
(44:51):
didn't have the research in theback, like right here at my neck
, to back up something, becauseall the other parts like I love
my journey so and it is unique,so I would have spoken up more.
Ijeoma Kola (45:05):
That's good.
And then last question what isone final piece of advice that
you have for current doctoralstudents or aspiring doctoral
students who are black, women ornon-binary folks?
Shaqunita Robinson (45:21):
One piece, one, just one One last admit.
One.
I know what's counterintuitiveto everything that we have ever
been taught about success, aboutbeing the best, about just like
thriving.
It's all of that.
If you allow yourself to justslow down for a bit and tune
(45:48):
into what your body is tellingyou, what you need, and allowing
yourself the space to actuallyrecover when you have given off
all of the energy that you have,if you allow yourself to slow
down and recharge, I promise youyou will get so much, so much
further than if you just pushthrough, take a break, take a
(46:11):
move, take a break.
My wife and I were talking theother day and this came to my
mind because she was like, butthe word it piles up Like, yes,
there might be more to carry,but your muscles will be
stronger.
And so if you give yourself thespace to actually recover, give
(46:31):
yourself back some energy yes,there might be more there, but
you will be better equipped tohandle it because you've
actually recharged.
So that's what I'll say.
Ijeoma Kola (46:44):
So good, so good.
I always I like.
I always love when, like thefolks with therapy backgrounds
are on the podcast, because Ifeel like I get a free therapy
session.
That was amazing advice, notjust for doctoral students, but
really for everyone.
Wow, so good quotes likequotable, such good gems.
(47:07):
Thank you so much, dr Shakwinta, for joining us today on the
Cohort SysSys podcast.
We'll definitely be sharing inthe show notes where folks can
find you online, where they canaccess your coaching and therapy
services, as well as the linksto your upcoming edited book.
Thank you again.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Cohort Sisters podcast, where we
give voice to the stories,struggles and successes of Black
women and non-binary scholarswith doctoral degrees.
I'm your host, dr Jelma Cola,and today we have Dr Shakwinta
Richardson, a visionary lifecoach dedicated to helping Black
women prioritize self-care,find joy and reshape their
(00:26):
definitions of success.
Through the PhD in humandevelopment and family science
from the University of Georgia,dr Shakwinta's coaching centers
on intergenerational influencesand the transformative power of
radical self-care.
Hailing from South Carolina anda proud graduate of HBCU, dr
Richardson's coaching empowersBlack women to realign their
(00:49):
lives, embracing harmony andself-belief.
Her insights into thechallenges Black women face,
combined with her dynamicapproach to coaching, offer a
pathway to create vibrant,fulfilling lives, so we're
thrilled to have you on thepodcast, dr Shakwinta.
Welcome.
Shaqunita Robinson (01:05):
Thank you.
Thank you, I'm so excited.
I'm so excited for this.
Ijeoma Kola (01:09):
I am too, so tell us a little bit about who you
are, offline, kind of like inreal life Like who are you?
Shaqunita Robinson (01:16):
We know that you're from the Carolinas.
Ijeoma Kola (01:18):
Where do you live now?
What do you like to do outsideof work?
Shaqunita Robinson (01:23):
All right.
So, like I'm from SouthCarolina, I currently live in
Houston with my wife and my twodogs, who like to make a lot of
noise, so please forgive me ifthey, you know, make themselves
heard.
But yeah, so I enjoy just kindof relaxing, chilling, exploring
.
Houston Actually moved here in2020, middle of 2020.
(01:46):
And so I'm just now getting toreally like explore and see what
Houston really has to offer.
So a lot of my time has beenjust going to coffee shops, you
know, figuring out where thosefun spaces are.
There's a black on bookstorehere, so I'm a heavy reader, so
there are a lot and just makingconnections and you got to find
(02:06):
my face in a book most of thetime.
Ijeoma Kola (02:10):
I love it.
My best friend lives in Houstonand my older brother, just in
his family, just moved toHouston, so there's some good
people in Houston.
I feel like you're a goodperson and I'd love to kind of
just start from the beginning.
You know how did you getinterested in human development
and family science?
Is that like?
Did you even know what that waswhen you were a kid?
(02:30):
Walk us through like yourchildhood and how you ended up
specializing in that field.
Shaqunita Robinson (02:36):
Yes, okay, I'm glad you asked for like the
full start.
Okay, so, like, where do Istart with this?
Because it is very much awinding path, so I'll start with
this, yeah.
Ijeoma Kola (02:46):
Yeah.
Shaqunita Robinson (02:49):
So start with, you know, growing up I
came from you know background,limited resources, single parent
, my single parent home.
My dad was in and out of prison, as when I was growing up, and
there was always the narrative Iwas a gifted kid, you're going
to be a doctor, you should be adoctor or lawyer, Lawyer that
did not, that never appealed tome.
But you should be a doctor, youshould be a doctor.
(03:09):
So I went through my entire youknow, elementary, through high
school career thinking I wasgoing to be a doctor, a
physician.
And I got to a point, was likeI don't know if I want that or
not.
And then freshman biology hitfreshman chemistry and I was
like, you know, I actually don'tlike science, so this might be
(03:30):
difficult to continue thiscareer when I actually don't
enjoy this, this type ofknowledge, at all.
So at that point I I didn'tknow what I wanted to do,
because what I didn't have a lotof like other conversations and
models for other careers.
Yeah, it was like you're smart,be a doctor or lawyer.
(03:50):
There wasn't a lot ofadditional conversation about
what other options were.
So freshman year of college,it's first month of classes, and
I'm like what do I want to do.
I tell the story before andit's, it's ridiculous, but also
it just is what it is.
I was watching two can playthat game.
The movie to complain, and thenthe Fox's character and I think
(04:14):
when you cut Rock L Robinson'scharacters, I think they both
were like marketing executivesand like these you know powerful
women and did it.
So I was like, okay, I want tobe a marketing executive.
Immediately changed my major tobusiness and marketing, so, and
then, you know, went through myentire college career, got my
degree in marketing and I wentinto my first job at a fortune
(04:34):
500 company, major, major, majorretail.
Did I say is it okay to saywhere it worked If you want to?
So got my first job at Target,If it needs to be kind of a game
.
But yeah, my first job was atTarget as a business analyst.
So I'm working in, you know,Target headquarters.
I'm feeling really good.
Big shit.
I'm sorry I was big stuff.
(04:57):
You know this was the most moneyI'd ever made or ever seen,
anybody in my family had everseen or whatever, and I thought
I had made it.
And then I get into the roleand I hate it.
I hate everything about it.
I hate my day to day.
I hate how I was treated.
(05:18):
I hate how like what theexpectations were.
I just I did not like the kindof work that I was doing in the
kind of environment that I wasin and I started to do some
reflection.
I found a mentor there, startedto do some reflection and
realized that everything that Iactually liked about my job had
nothing to do with my role.
(05:38):
It was all about the peopleportion of it.
So then decided to leave,decided to become a therapist
Complete shift.
Decided to become a therapist.
I went to get my masters inmarriage and family therapy.
Then the transition from therewas to University of Georgia and
(05:58):
it's human development andfamily science with an emphasis
in marriage and family therapy.
So like that's the program, sothat's how I got into human
development and family science.
So yeah, that was my journey tothat degree.
Ijeoma Kola (06:13):
So did you know any therapist you kind of talked
about, you realized it was thepeople at work that interested
you and not actually your role.
But then I feel like you couldhave gone into different.
There are other roles or otherkind of like disciplines that
deal with people.
So why therapy?
And then why marriage andfamily therapy?
Shaqunita Robinson (06:32):
So just some .
Well, a mentor gave me anexercise to do and it was like
looking at what are yourinterests, what are your
passions, what are the thingsthat I'm excited to do, what are
the things that you usuallyquestion or lean towards, and a
lot of it was a counseling typeof thing.
So I really enjoyed havingconversations with people,
(06:52):
learning about them, learningabout how they think and how
things work, and then also likerelationships, and so not just
the individual part, but likehow do people like relationships
work, how do familyrelationships work?
So I did some research becauseI was in business.
My first thought was industrialand organizational psychology,
(07:16):
but I don't know about thateither and then just discovered,
through some more research,discovered the field of marriage
and family therapy.
I didn't know it was a thingprior to that.
So it's just that the exercisethat I did and then some
research led me to marriage andfamily therapy.
Ijeoma Kola (07:30):
So thanks for sharing your journey on how your
kind of like first role, firstvery big role led you to the
realization and thanks to thehelp of the mentor that that
wasn't the right fit for you,but you found another field so.
I'm always interested when Ispeak to people who kind of end
up as counselors or therapists,because there are so many
different kinds of degrees intherapy and in counseling.
(07:53):
So why get a PhD?
Why not stop at a master's?
Why not do a social work degreethat also allows you to do
counseling?
Why get a doctoral degree inthe field?
Shaqunita Robinson (08:07):
So in the program that I was in my
master's program there was a oneblack professor and she was an
adjunct professor and so thatwas the only exposure I had to a
black professor at that time.
And I also had anotherprofessor who she was a white
(08:28):
professor but she she graduatedfrom my PhD program and so while
we were in our master's programthe she was going through her
dissertation, so she was in herinternship phase of in the
station phase of her journey andso we knew a little bit about
it.
She shared a bit of it with usand so had that as like curious
(08:54):
and then had the black professorand then I was coming to the
end of my program and I couldeither go into straight into
practice because the master's isa terminal degree, so I could
go into that or I could in mymind my fullest potential and
become the best I can be.
(09:15):
And all the little black girlsneed to know that this is
possible.
Like that was all a part of mythought.
If I can, I should that wholenarrative.
And then there aren't many ofus, so I need to be one of the
ones.
That is an example.
So that's why I pursued the PhDhad you know, all of these like
my potential and I need to dothat, so that's why I did it.
(09:38):
I had no reference.
Ijeoma Kola (09:47):
Yes, that was my follow up question because I'm
like I'm hearing you say likeyou wanted to do it because of
the like, the future impact, thefuture potential impact.
But so I was going to ask youknow, you had the, the adjunct
professor's mentor, and alsosomeone else who was getting a
doctoral degree, but did youWere you exposed to a lot of
(10:09):
people who, yeah, can you speaka little bit more to what you
knew and what you didn't knowbefore you started the doctoral
degree, and maybe what you wishyou had known, like once you
actually got into the degree?
Shaqunita Robinson (10:21):
Mm-hmm.
So I knew that you could be aprofessor.
That's what I knew.
It's like oh, they have thisdegree, it's the highest degree
that you can receive.
It's, you know, a very big,like big title on all those
things.
And that was it.
That's what I knew, even thoughthese two professors as I was
going through the process ofapplying and all they, like, you
(10:43):
know it's a research degree,it's a research degree.
A PhD is a research degree.
Okay, my experience of researchup to that point was an
undergraduate and master's levelunderstanding of, like clinical
, master's understanding of whatresearch meant.
That meant going Googling,looking up some articles, and
(11:05):
that's what research meant to me.
So they kept saying it's aresearch degree and I'm like,
okay, cool, all right, cool, Igot you and I had no idea what I
was getting myself into.
I had no idea, no idea.
(11:25):
So I knew that with a PhD, youcould be a professor and there
was this thing that people callresearch.
That is a major part of thatdegree.
That's what I knew.
Ijeoma Kola (11:36):
Yeah, yeah, sounds like you were in for a really
big shock.
So what were some of thesuccesses of your program?
And then what were some of thechallenges that you faced?
Shaqunita Robinson (11:48):
Okay.
So my doctoral journey was veryI don't know that it was unique
, because just in how like Ijust know, you know, black women
, we have different stories butwe also have similar stories in
some ways.
So my experience I went into it.
Not only was I not prepared forthe research part of it, I
(12:09):
didn't truly understand whatthat was, I was not prepared for
the financial aspect of it, andso I had, you know, my tuition
was covered through myassistantship, all that good
stuff, but my stipend was notenough to live on.
And all of the preparation, allthe planning that I did you
(12:30):
know I'm a financial plannerdown to the, to the, to the T,
but I still I wasn't preparedfor just the day to day and how,
how much things could flush,fluctuate, things that I would
have to pay for, that I didn'tknow that I was going to have to
pay for my conferences andthings that we were required to
(12:51):
go to and get reimbursed for in,like those types of things.
So I had a very rough firstsemester financially.
I lost I won't say I losteverything, but I almost lost
everything.
My car was repossessed, I hadto move into an apartment, a
four person apartment with threeundergrads.
(13:13):
I my credit cards got like itwas.
It was bad.
It was bad, bad like I was.
I was about to be out of there.
It's like this is not worth it.
This was all in the firstsemester like this, out of here.
So there, that was that pieceand thankfully, my professors
(13:33):
because I've always beenpersonally I'm like I'm not
going to suffer in silence,that's just that's never been me
, and so I express what wasgoing on and so they ended up
helping me get that part inorder.
But I literally spent the nextyear and some of the years just
trying to get my like financial,personal life together so that
I wasn't homeless and hungry.
So I had a lot of focus on mypersonal stuff because of that
(14:00):
and then, like just having tomanage being a first year and
not knowing what I was doing.
So first year was really reallyit was hard.
It was really hard.
I had, I was out of there.
I had replied to like 40 jobs.
It's like I'm getting out ofthis.
Yeah, it was, and I had acompany use me with myself over
(14:21):
the Christmas break and it was.
It was like it's all gone.
It's gone now.
There's nothing you can doabout it?
It's gone, it's happened.
You're doing this, you'rewhatever.
What do you want?
Not standing this like place offrustration, and you know my
emotional space of you knowfeeling bad about myself, shame,
(14:43):
all those things.
What do you actually want?
And literally from that momenton, I decided that I still want
this.
I want to figure this out.
Yeah, I didn't know what I wasdoing coming into it, but I've
had some classes now, I've beenin these spaces with these
people and they were alreadygetting on my nerves with you
know, with the racism and themicroaggressions.
(15:05):
I'm like, okay, I'm here, I'mgoing to do this.
So I decided to keep going andjust figure it out.
And from that point forward Iwas also able to find a chair
who really made my experiencemuch, much, much better than I
(15:27):
think it would have been if Ihad any other, any other chair.
So that first year was kind ofunique in just all of the
turmoil, but it the last three,four years, were made up by
having a chair who was reallyunderstanding, really kind and
(15:47):
helping me create and carve outexperiences and will allow me to
carve out experiences.
That made my doctoral journeybeautiful.
I was able to do some things,and I'll stop there because I'm
going on.
But I was able to do somereally amazing things through my
doctoral journey because of thechair that I had and the
mindset that I had of like I'mgonna make the best of this.
I'm not gonna let this takeanything else from me, and I say
(16:08):
all the time.
Yet if I'm gonna do this, Isaid at that point if I'm gonna
do this, I'm gonna come out ofthis a whole person.
I don't care what that means, Idon't care what that takes, if
that means I'm not the mostpublished, if that means that I
don't have the best research,whatever that means, but I'm
gonna come out of this a wholeperson.
Ijeoma Kola (16:27):
Ooh, the gems are already being dropped.
Wow, okay, so there's thewholeness.
There's the financial surprise,really, of the cost of, like
the hitting cost of graduateschool, right, I feel like this
reimbursement story is.
It comes up so many timesbecause folks don't realize the
upfront costs and even waitingfor your first stipend check.
(16:50):
I don't know about you.
I remember that first stipendcheck, the income when I thought
it was gonna come and I waslike ooh well, I thought I was
gonna be there at the first dayof school and it was not for
several weeks.
So hopefully that's advice forfolks who are thinking about it,
planning for it.
Just know some of the financialupfront costs of the early
(17:10):
stages but I really, really loveyour mindset about I'm gonna do
it and behold whatever thatmeans, whatever costs, so I
think that's reallyinspirational.
I wanna touch on this chairthat kinda came into your life
because I have a pretty similarstory where I was really really
(17:32):
struggling and then someonejoined the department and I
latched onto him, was like hewill see me through.
So how did you develop arelationship with this faculty
member, the chair, who was ableto provide you with the
appropriate mentorship andguidance to really see you
through?
And what advice do you have forother people who are kind of
(17:55):
seeking out their fairygodmother in the package into a
doctoral advisor or kind ofstruggling to find that person
who can really hold them down?
Shaqunita Robinson (18:06):
So the way that I found her, so the part
that I didn't speak to.
When I was going through mymaster's program, I was also
working full time as acoordinator for an intellectual
and developmental disabilitiesboard in my hometown.
So that ended up being myresearch focus adults with
(18:27):
intellectual and developmentaldisabilities and so we had a
institute for human developmentat the University of Georgia and
so she was the director of theinstitute and so it was like
perfect, like research interest.
But my first year I didn'tthink that she could be.
I knew she could be on mycommittee.
(18:49):
I didn't know that she could bemy chair because I thought it
was a different department.
Turns out she was actually, liketechnically, she was in my
department and so it was justlike this is perfect, this is
she's the only one who was doingthe kind of research or who had
the experience in everythingthat I needed to go through my
(19:11):
program and do the research thatI wanted to do.
So that just aligned when itjust it became more than I ever
knew I needed was just she'sjust a beautiful, gracious
person and kind person and Ithink some of that I friendly,
believe that a lot of it comesfrom the actual work with folks
(19:33):
with intellectual anddevelopmental disabilities and
just having a differentperspective on labor and work
and expectations andintelligence and gifts and X, y
and Z.
So I think that just made her alot more aware Because some
other things that were happening, like during while I was in my
PhD program it was during thatperiod of time where there was a
(19:54):
slew of Treyvon Martin happenedLike in that background,
exactly exactly.
Ijeoma Kola (20:06):
I was in the same time so I know yeah.
Shaqunita Robinson (20:10):
Back to back to back and she was very aware
and also gave me a lot of spaceto be human during those times.
If I said I need I can't, todayshe's like I understand If I'm
not feeling well, I understand,do what you need to do.
(20:33):
Like she expected me to get mywork done, of course, but that
didn't require me to ignore whenthings were messed up or not
going well.
So that was beautiful.
She had the funding that Ineeded.
Now, even with the highest levelof funding for a PhD program,
(20:53):
it's still not enough to liketruly live, but she was still
able to provide me with that Atone point.
Like my car was messed up.
Like she helped me.
I don't even know if it's okayfor me to say some of these
things, but she just helped mein a lot of ways.
(21:14):
Just yeah, I won't go into alot of these fields, but she
helped me on the human side ofthings in a lot of ways, while
also helping me create aresearch project on dissertation
that I felt really good about.
Like she supported the thingsthat I wanted to look at in my
research.
Ijeoma Kola (21:33):
Yeah, I think that's so hard to find in such a
gift.
I'm so happy that you were ableto find someone who could do
the dual work, and often we'lltalk.
You know, during our mentorshipprogram we tell folks that
often your advisor can't supportyou emotionally, like they're
not trained to do that, theydoes not their job, and so you
often need to build a kind oflike a circle of mentors, some
(21:56):
of whom will pour into youpersonally, some of whom will
pour into you professionally,academically.
You know whatnot, whatnot, butyou know, to be able to find
someone who can pour into you inmultiple ways is such a gift
and such a blessing.
So I'm really really excitedthat you were able to to find
that in her.
Shaqunita Robinson (22:14):
And then the second part of your question
was like tips, like not tips,but like advice for people on
how to find that and honestly Idon't know what to tell you Feel
like she was a gem.
You know, I really don't know,but I do think it's important to
kind of like observe and seehow people just communicate, how
they treat other people, causeeven if it's it might not be the
(22:36):
person that has like the mostaligned research, that might not
be the person that is the bestperson to be the chair that
happened to be the case with mebut I think it's equally as
powerful to have someone whoseresearch might not is like
specifically aligned, but thatyou mesh with and it's gonna
advocate for you.
So that's all I can say on that.
Ijeoma Kola (22:57):
That's a really good piece of advice.
The research topic alignmentisn't always what's most
important.
Yeah, that's really good.
Hopefully the people are takingnotes today.
So earlier, when you said thatyou kind of like not ended up in
a doctoral program but pursuedit because you wanted to excel
but didn't really know muchabout it when you were in your
(23:18):
doctoral program, what were youthinking of?
Like what would be your nextsteps?
Were you thinking of, maybeI'll become a counselor and a
therapist, maybe I'll have aprivate practice, maybe I'll
teach, like what were some ofthe the different career options
that were floating in your mind, like while you were still
dissertating?
Shaqunita Robinson (23:36):
All of that.
I had, at that point, fullybought into the scholar
practitioner model I had.
I was planning to go on andbecome a professor while also
practicing on the side andallowing my, my teaching and my
research to inform my practiceand my practice to inform my
teaching and my research.
So, yeah, I had fully boughtinto the, the scholar
(23:57):
practitioner model.
And that's you know, initially,what I did.
So, yeah, yeah, okay, I justhad bought into.
Ijeoma Kola (24:06):
I'm curious why you use the language bought into
like do you cause you?
Just unpack that a little bit,unpack that forever.
Shaqunita Robinson (24:13):
Uh huh, uh huh.
So being a professor is a it'san undertaking.
It's an undertaking, it's, itis a role, and it's even in our
PhD program.
So, like I said, it was humandevelopment and family science,
with an emphasis in marriage andfamily therapy.
So there's, they didn't takeaway classes for the from the,
(24:37):
the human development and familyscience.
They just added some on andadded additional requirements,
and so we got used to not onlygo into classes and doing
research, which our colleagues,our peers had to do, that only
had the human development andfamily science, but then we also
had this extra set ofrequirements as well.
And so, you know, it becamenormalized.
(24:59):
But essentially, you're doingtwo different jobs, and when
being professors already a heavyload, and so you know, going
into the work was like, yeah,get used to doing two jobs.
So that's what I mean by aboutit's like this doesn't sound
like a great idea.
(25:20):
On the other side of like whenyou actually want to be able to
do things outside of work.
So that's what I mean when Isay that like it's, it's a lot.
Ijeoma Kola (25:30):
Yeah, I've never thought of like the scholar
practitioner role as as two jobs, but like now that you put it
that way, I could totally seethat I know there are a lot of
people also.
I think psychology and therapyand counseling is one field
where the scholar practitioneroften exists.
Public health is another onewhere I think people can often
(25:52):
consider themselves that in thatrole and it's never a courage.
But you 100% right, it reallyjust is two different jobs Full
time.
So that is something for folksto think about.
You know, if they want to stillpursue those interests, like
you really still want to dopractice, kind of community
based work or clinical work, andyou still want to do academic
(26:14):
work just kind of know whatyou're getting into.
So then, what did you end updoing when you graduated?
It sounds like walk us throughyour posts immediately right
after graduation your careertrajectory to where you are now.
Shaqunita Robinson (26:28):
Yes, okay.
So immediately after graduationI ended up.
So my master's program was inmy hometown.
I didn't say that part, but mymaster's program was in my
hometown and so then theprofessor that the professor
that was finishing up herdissertation when I was in my
master's program she had becomethe program director of the
(26:48):
program.
So I was able to do like myinternship there, do some
teaching and supervision tofinish my degree at the at my
master's program.
So that naturally apply fordifferent places, but that just
seemed to be the best fit for meto get my first job.
So I ended up.
My first academic professorshipwas at my master's, the
(27:10):
university master's program, andso I was a senior professor and
clinical director in thatprogram for two years after I
graduated.
And so it's a.
It's a.
It's a teaching heavy program.
So there's not a lot ofresearch, but there was still
some.
We still do some like smallresearch projects, but it was
(27:32):
mostly practitioner basedteaching.
Practitioner based.
I had to teach multiple classesand also supervise master
students and also, you know,clinical director role and quite
frankly, the salary wouldn'twhat I wanted, when, what I need
(27:55):
it, and then also having to getmy hours from a licensure and
all that at the same time.
So I'm full time professor,clinical director, doing
supervision, teaching, all ofthat.
And the next year I didn'tstart my private practice right
away, but then I started myprivate practice a year after
(28:16):
graduating, and so full timeprofessor and part time private
practice as well.
So like I got two jobs and thenI was also finishing our, so I
had an additional role as afellow at a clinic, at the
clinic that we as well.
So full time professor, fellowat the clinic, part time private
(28:39):
practice Three different jobs.
It was a lot and still thesalary wasn't like then it was a
lot better because I had thesupplemental, but like I'm
having to do three differentroles to get to a salary that I
felt comfortable with.
That, you know, I felt like itwas what I, what I wanted to
(29:01):
what I needed.
So then 2020 hits.
I had already planned to getmarried my husband and wife and
moving to Houston, so that wasalready in the plans to happen.
So I had decided that I wasgoing to leave academia and go
into practice full time and,honestly, I had I don't know.
(29:23):
Even since I was young, I waslike I don't want to teach, I
don't ever want to be a teacher.
That's not something I everwant to do.
I've been a student for 20years.
My student, I love my students.
I enjoyed the experience of it,but it's still not me like I
don't enjoy being an educator inthat way, so left that part
behind, but still wanted tocontinue being a practitioner.
(29:44):
So I the plan was to move toHouston in 2020.
And lean into private practicefull time.
I had already had it part time,leaving private practice full
time, and that is what happened.
And then I added on my coachingpractice.
I started my coaching businessaround that time as well, and so
(30:06):
it was full time or part time.
You know, a full time practice,private practice and then
coaching as well.
So I had these, both of theseroles, and that's where I am now
.
Ijeoma Kola (30:17):
Yes, did the pandemic and you were talking
about.
You already were planning ondoing all of this in 2020.
How, if at all, did thepandemic adjust your plans or
accelerate them or break puttingout, put a break on them, or
did it change anything in anyway for you?
Shaqunita Robinson (30:37):
So and this, this is the part that's always,
you know, difficult to talkabout because it was very
helpful to my plans.
I had already like, there, whenwe're talking, I made these
decisions in 2019.
Okay, you know 2019, so I'malready looking at.
(30:59):
Online therapy was not a majortopic at that point, like some
people were doing it, but it wasstill like what's this thing,
what are people doing?
And so I had already planned tostart, because I'm only at that
point.
I was licensed in SouthCarolina, I wasn't licensed in
Texas yet, and so I could onlypractice in South Carolina, and
(31:19):
so I had planned to do atelehealth online therapy
practice.
But I knew it was gonna bedifficult because people weren't
used to doing online therapy.
March comes, everybody has togo online.
So that worked out really wellfor me, because, if everybody
has to, now I don't have thisbarrier, this like challenge of
(31:44):
convincing my clients orconvincing new clients of
building my practice with thisthing that people don't know
about.
So it was actually very, veryhelpful in making that
transition.
Ijeoma Kola (31:59):
And now do you feel like there is still enough kind
of like social comfort withtelehealth and virtual therapy,
or do you feel like people arekind of starting to move back
into wanting and desiringin-person therapy services?
Shaqunita Robinson (32:16):
So I think people have now really taken to
it, and a lot of people preferthe online therapy because it's
so convenient.
You don't have to drive tosomeone's office.
You can do it on a break, whileyou're at work and anytime of
the day.
So I think that it's made itreally convenient for people,
and so I think more people arereluctant to go back to
(32:37):
in-person, but I do find thatthere are some people who are
missing that in-personinteraction.
So I think it's the majoritystill like the online model, but
I do think that a good numberof people are starting to feel
the need to just be in theenergy in the same space as
punishable.
Ijeoma Kola (32:54):
Yes, so I have we're gonna kind of go off
script a little bit, cause Icame across you very recently in
your work because you postedwhat is now a viral Instagram
(33:15):
post of you wearing youracademic regalia.
And for folks who don't know,that's like the gown that you
get when you get your doctoraldegree and you were sitting on
your couch or at arm chair,reading and drinking wine, I
believe, and with a fantasticcaption, and so I wanna know.
You kind of said, like you'dlike your students, but you knew
(33:37):
that you didn't wanna be aneducator.
How did you kind of come toterms with?
You know, after doing thiswhole long degree, you've got
the robe, you've got the degree,and now you are working in a
role that you could have donewithout the degree, like without
the PhD.
And I'm asking thisspecifically because, again, the
(33:58):
field that you're in, there arefolks who do therapy, who do
coaching, without a PhD.
So how did you kind ofreconcile that?
You know I have this degree andI'm doing this work that I
really love, but, like, did Ineed the degree?
And like, what am I gonna dowith the robe?
So just love for you to expandon that a little bit.
Shaqunita Robinson (34:15):
Yeah, so, and I think that goes to just my
personality and my just one ofmy life, like philosophies, ways
of looking at life.
And could I have done itwithout the PhD?
Absolutely absolutely.
And do I think that it wasneeded?
That's hard to answer becausethe degrees, like having the PhD
(34:40):
, having the degree specificallylike that 10th part of it, is
not the only thing that I gotfrom the PhD experience.
And so in my coaching practice,in my therapy practice and my
personal life, like just who Iam, was shaped by the PhD
journey.
(35:00):
What I learned about feminism,womanism, came through that
journey, Abelism came throughthat journey, Knowledge of human
development came through thatjourney.
I use that in my coachingpractice understanding
relationships, understandingsystems.
In my master's program we get abase level understanding of
(35:23):
systems theory.
In the PhD program it'severything Like it's kind of the
basis of human development,family science, and so I use my
systems knowledge as a coach.
So, yeah, I think the way Ithink about life and the way I
think about things is like I dolean into the journey and all of
(35:46):
this was part of like leadingme to this path.
I don't know where I would havebeen, I don't know what my
journey would look like if I hadgone straight into practice.
So, yeah, like I could have.
But that just would have been adifferent path, A different
journey, a different outcome,and I like this outcome and I'm
(36:08):
able to use it, even if it's notas a professor.
Ijeoma Kola (36:12):
Yeah, I think that's really valuable,
especially for people you know,myself included, who is still
trying to figure out, like I amin an academic career and still
keeping an open mind and verymuch exploring.
Obviously I also do this worktoo, but I think that's
something that kind of holdspeople.
(36:33):
That, from what I've heard bytalking to some folks, is like
something that sometimes holdspeople in the academic spaces is
because they feel like, well,if I go do something else, like,
what was the reason, what wasthe purpose of the whole degree.
So I really like what you saidabout you know, you didn't just
get the degree that you gainedother things you gained under
(36:53):
other skills.
You gained other knowledge thatyou otherwise wouldn't have had
, that you applied to your workand your personal life, and I
think that that kind of holisticapproach to thinking about the
end result and the product of adoctoral program is really
helpful for folks.
I'm now gonna like reflect on,besides the paper and this, like
really niche knowledge that Igot.
(37:14):
What did I get?
Shaqunita Robinson (37:15):
from my doctor degree.
Ijeoma Kola (37:16):
That was really, really helpful.
Yeah, I really really like thatframework.
Fantastic A plus.
There's a reason why you're alife coach Like gems just such
good gems I would.
Before we started recording,you were talking about a really
exciting project that you havecoming up a book.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout the edited book that you
(37:38):
have coming out soon, why youended up working on the project
and you know when it's comingout and how can we learn more
about it?
Shaqunita Robinson (37:45):
Yes, yes, so have an edited book coming out.
It'll be released October 18thand it's gifted black women
navigating the doctoral process.
Sister Insider.
And this book was literallythought up between what me and
so it's myself and Dr BrittanyNicole Anderson, who was at the
University of Charlotte.
(38:05):
She's a gifted ed scholar thereand we started our PhD programs
at the same time she's she wasin education and we were writing
.
One day this was like 2016.
Maybe 2015, 2016, we were inthe cafeteria, in the dining
hall at University of Georgiaand just talking about we should
(38:26):
do this thing, and that iswhere it started.
So this book is a collection ofour stories and a few of our
friends who were also scholarsat University of Georgia at the
same time we were.
One of the most powerful thingsabout our doctoral journey was
(38:49):
the community that we had.
We had a very, very uniqueexperience of having dozens of
black women who were allconnected and we were able to,
you know, have community andconnect with each other, support
each other and help get eachother through, and so we're like
(39:09):
, we want to put this, we wantto like box this up and like
share it, share black women, andthat's what we did.
So it's, you know, ourindividual stories and
experiences going through ourdoctoral journeys, with whatever
specific aspects of our ownexperiences, whatever that was.
(39:29):
And so, yeah, we share some ofour story.
They each share their story.
We share some, you know,nuggets of wisdom, some tools
and things.
It's beautiful.
So it'll be out October 18thand the pre-order starts, I
think, september 27th.
Ijeoma Kola (39:47):
Yeah, okay, yeah, we'll definitely make sure to
put links in the show notes sofolks can get it, and we would
love to have you do like a booktalk with the cohort sisters
community.
If you'd be open to that.
That would be amazing.
It sounds like a resource thata lot of people need, whether or
not they're, especially forfolks who are currently in a
doctoral program, but alsopeople who are?
(40:08):
thinking about applying.
You know, just want to get moreperspectives.
So thank you for doing the workand thank you for having that
cafeteria idea.
You know, see it to fruition.
It's not easy to pull togetherany kind of work, let alone an
edited volume.
You know wrangling folks.
So kudos to you.
I'm really, really excited forthe launch.
(40:29):
I'm sure you're more excited,but I'm really excited to
support the book launch in anyway that we can.
So as we start to wind down, Ihave I have a question about
self care, because it's such abuzzword that people really like
to throw out.
But you kind of harp on radicalself care as like really big,
(40:49):
foundational in your coachingwork.
So I would love to know haveyou defined radical self care
and what strategies do yourecommend to black women and non
binary folks for incorporatingit into our lives?
Shaqunita Robinson (41:02):
So I define radical self care is is just
truly caring for yourself, thehuman, like prioritizing,
centering yourself as a humanbeing who is worthy of and has a
right to being cared for, andregardless of whatever's going
(41:23):
on externally, it doesn't matter.
You know what your, what yourwork is, what your role is.
That you get to take care ofyour basic human needs and your
basic desires above everythingelse.
That you do not have to earnrest, that you do not have to
earn breaks, that you do nothave to earn a meal, that you
can just have these thingsbecause you exist.
(41:45):
And I believe that once wetruly honor that we are human
and that we have means and thatwe require rest, and then we
require space for our brains torecover and have space to not
constantly be working and doingand have to be productive.
(42:06):
That it allows us a fullerexperience of life.
So I mean you know I hear allthe time, you know had to throw
something in my mouth, got tokeep moving, got to do this, got
to do this.
I didn't eat today because of x, y and z.
I didn't do enough.
I got to get this done before Ican.
And then, when we do sit down,we pause our brain, we can't, we
(42:27):
can't slow it down, so we gotto do something else and you
know that's that comes from adeep seated place, but it's
hurting us and it has harmed usfor centuries.
And so, yeah, it's reallyre-centering the human in the
life, de-centering the work,because we got to work, you know
(42:51):
, most of us we got to work insome capacity.
Even if capitalism wasn't athing, there would still be
roles, there would still bethings that we have to do to
keep society functioning, and soit's.
But it's de-centering thiscapitalistic way of doing it
that ignores that we're notmachines here just for the
production, for the, you know,glorification of someone else.
(43:11):
So it's truly meeting our needsfirst, and then other things
will fall into place, likehaving that faith and belief
that other things will fall intoplace.
Ijeoma Kola (43:23):
I love that so much and I'm going to challenge
myself to at least to take onething.
My one thing I'm taking away isthat you don't need to earn a
break.
That narrative is somethingthat I definitely feel like okay
, well, I just got to do X, y, zand then I can take a break.
So I'm my one little changethat I'm going to make is baby
(43:45):
steps y'all, but for me, whatreally stood out is this idea
that you don't need to earn rest, you don't need to earn breaks.
You deserve them and your bodyneeds them.
So thank you so much for sharingthat and for continuing to do
the work of just kind ofre-educating us on how to take
care of ourselves and how to putourselves first.
It's such important work andI'm really glad that folks like
(44:07):
you get to be able to do it forus.
So we like to ask all of ourguests two questions, just kind
of like reflecting on theirjourney.
So if, for some strange reason,you had to do your doctoral
degree all over again, what isone thing that you would do
differently?
Shaqunita Robinson (44:26):
If I had to do it again, what is one thing I
would do differently?
Honestly, speak up more.
I think I would speak up more.
Yeah, I think I would speak upfor myself, speak up for the
collective more, in spaces whereI felt silenced because I
(44:51):
didn't have the research in theback, like right here at my neck
, to back up something, becauseall the other parts like I love
my journey so and it is unique,so I would have spoken up more.
Ijeoma Kola (45:05):
That's good.
And then last question what isone final piece of advice that
you have for current doctoralstudents or aspiring doctoral
students who are black, women ornon-binary folks?
Shaqunita Robinson (45:21):
One piece, one, just one One last admit.
One.
I know what's counterintuitiveto everything that we have ever
been taught about success, aboutbeing the best, about just like
thriving.
It's all of that.
If you allow yourself to justslow down for a bit and tune
(45:48):
into what your body is tellingyou, what you need, and allowing
yourself the space to actuallyrecover when you have given off
all of the energy that you have,if you allow yourself to slow
down and recharge, I promise youyou will get so much, so much
further than if you just pushthrough, take a break, take a
(46:11):
move, take a break.
My wife and I were talking theother day and this came to my
mind because she was like, butthe word it piles up Like, yes,
there might be more to carry,but your muscles will be
stronger.
And so if you give yourself thespace to actually recover, give
(46:31):
yourself back some energy yes,there might be more there, but
you will be better equipped tohandle it because you've
actually recharged.
So that's what I'll say.
Ijeoma Kola (46:44):
So good, so good.
I always I like.
I always love when, like thefolks with therapy backgrounds
are on the podcast, because Ifeel like I get a free therapy
session.
That was amazing advice, notjust for doctoral students, but
really for everyone.
Wow, so good quotes likequotable, such good gems.
(47:07):
Thank you so much, dr Shakwinta, for joining us today on the
Cohort SysSys podcast.
We'll definitely be sharing inthe show notes where folks can
find you online, where they canaccess your coaching and therapy
services, as well as the linksto your upcoming edited book.
Thank you again.
Thank you.
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