August 20, 2025 • 14 mins
In this episode of The Color Between the Lines, host Esther Dillard speaks with Contessa Gayles, the Emmy-nominated director and producer behind the acclaimed documentary The Debutantes.
Through powerful storytelling and intimate visuals, The Debutantes reimagines the legacy of Black debutante culture—exploring how young women of color use these traditions to assert their identity, build community, and challenge stereotypes.
Gayles discusses the inspiration for the film, the historical context of Black debutante balls, and the deeply personal stories that emerged during production. She also reflects on the importance of centering Black women’s voices in media and what it means to create art that celebrates cultural pride while sparking conversation.
🎧 In this episode, you’ll learn:
- The history and evolution of Black debutante balls
- How The Debutantes reframes a tradition often overlooked in mainstream media
- Why representation and cultural ownership matter in storytelling
- Behind-the-scenes insights from an Emmy-nominated filmmaker
- The power of art to preserve history and inspire the next generation
Whether you love documentaries, Black history, or stories of women reclaiming tradition, this conversation will move and inspire you.
🔔 Subscribe to the podcast for more enlightening talks and join us in exploring how historical narratives shape our future. You can also watch it on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@thecolorbetweenthelines
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
In this edition of the Colorbetween the Lines.
It was really about service,like wanting to give the
girls some programming,leadership training,
opportunities to cometogether as community and
to meet each other and tomeet mentors and.
I'm talking with Emmynominated filmmaker
Contessa Gales abouther new documentary,
the Debutantes, whichfollows Canton, Ohio's
(00:26):
first black debutanteball in a decade.
We haven't had a cotillionball here for quite
some time, so our goal isto bring it back.
Our vision was to ensureevery girl can participate
in a cotillion debutante programand ball
from urban settings, fromsuburban settings,
from rural settings.
In a light that we don'toften get to see them in.
(00:49):
It's a modern lookat a tradition where
grace, identity and selfdiscovery meet.
Let's get into it.
First, I want to saycongratulations
on the premiere of this and.
And for those who areunfamiliar with cotillions
and debutantes, can youexplain what a debutante
cotillion really actually isfor the audience?
(01:10):
And why does it matterin the black tradition?
So cotillions are essentiallya rite of passage ceremony.
At least that's my takeon them in the film.
I, think this tradition,which, you know, goes
back decades in termsof black communities,
participation and.
(01:31):
Involvement in it, but then,like, centuries, going back
to white European origins.
But when it.
When it came here and whenblack people got a hold
of it and put their spinon it and put their
sauce on, really, I think,is about, community.
At the end of the day.
But of course there's tons ofvalid critiques about the
(01:52):
ways in which it replicates,classism, and patriarchal
ideas about womanhood and,and all of these things that
we explore in the filmthrough the girls that are
participating in thisCotillon tradition.
In Canton, Ohio, where wefilmed, it's the first
cotillion in 10 years.
(02:12):
So Canton hadthe tradition, dating back
to the early 70s.
And then in 2012 they hadtheir last one and it
was gone for a decade.
And this group of women,you know, decided that they
wanted to revive thistradition and really give
the girls in their communitysomething to participate in.
Is.
Is where that desire torevive it was born out of.
(02:36):
It was really aboutservice, like wanting to.
To give the girls someprogramming, leadership
training, opportunities tocome together as community
and to meet each otherand to meet mentors and.
And all of this stuff.
And of course culminating inthis big, grand ball where
they are presented formallyto society in their dresses
(02:58):
and, you know, showcasedand celebrated in this way.
But for me, you know, itwasn't necessarily, a desire
to explore that traditionper se, so much as it was an
opportunity to tell a comingof age story about black girls.
And that's really what'sat the heart of our
film, the Debutantes.
(03:19):
You could have probablypicked a lot
of different cities.
Why Canton, Ohio, forthis particular story?
I know that you.
You explained a little bitabout it, but you could
have gone anywhere.
Why can.
Why Canton?
And why was it so importantto spotlight this particular
city's revival?
I think Canton's a reallyinteresting place.
But the origins of thisparticular story that
(03:42):
became a film was that NBCNews Studios, was developing
something aroundblack middle class life.
And there was a producernamed, there's a producer
named Reniqua Allen Lampherewho found a article in the
Canton Repository, theCanton local newspaper,
about the efforts to revivethis cotillion.
(04:04):
And she thought it was reallyinteresting that, you
know, it was something thathad died and then was
attempting to be revived.
In 2022 is when we endedup filming, with Gen Z.
Like a generation thatdidn't really have
that much connectionto this tradition.
Some of them hadgrandmothers, some of them
had mothers that hadparticipated in it.
(04:25):
But most, for the most part,these girls were a bit
disconnected from the legacyand the traditional.
And I thought, you know,when I came into the fold
and NBC brought me in andwe brought on our partners
Westbrook Studios and BETStudios, that it was going
to be a really interestingarena to talk about the
intersections of race andgender and class in
(04:48):
particular, because thewomen who are organizing
this, knowing that, youknow, traditionally this is
a middle class, uppermiddle class tradition,
wanted to make it moreaccessible, very
intentionally to the girlsin their community, who are
again, you know, lacking inopportunities and programming.
And you know, Canton, Ohiois a post industrial city.
(05:09):
I'm from Buffalo, New Yorkalso similarly like a post
industrial city and whereyou know, there's low and
there's a high unemploymentrate and all of these
factors that make itdifficult for folks to, you
know, live their.
Dreams.
And yeah, so they, so theywanted to bring back this
tradition, but make ita lot more class inclusive.
(05:33):
And that for me was the,the really interesting
part because, innavigating these
traditions, a lot comesup around, you know, the
classism of it all, thepatriarchy of it all.
Like some of these traditionsdon't really fit or make
sense in the girls lives.
And you see how theynavigate that.
(05:54):
The idea of like steppinginto this legacy and what
they're inheriting fromthe black woman before
them, and then themfiguring out what makes
sense in their lives andhow to make it their own
and how they want to bepresented to society.
You know, these are16, 17 year old girls.
They're juniors and seniorsin high school.
And so they're really like,coming into themselves and
(06:15):
finding their own voicesand finding out who they
are and how to articulatethat on screen in front of us.
And we follow the whole classof girls, but there's
three girls in particularwhose stories we follow
and who each kind of,have a different journey.
Their names are Taylor,Deidre, and Amelia.
And I was just very,privileged and honored
(06:37):
that they were asvulnerable as they were
and opening up theirlives, to me and allowing
me to live my childhoodagain vicariously through them.
Well, it's funny, I won'tlet this pass by because you
said you're from Buffalo.
I'm from Buffalo.
It's quite an interesting thing.
Yeah.
Buffalo, New York.
Yeah.
Let's go.
(06:58):
Yeah.
I'm just wondering, youknow, when you were going
through this wholeprocess and filming this
and doing this, did youfind anything that really
surprised you about thewhole process?
I know you've done all yourresearch and everything,
but there might have been somesurprises along the way.
I think what was mostsurprising to me honestly
was the, the girls abilityto not only realize for
(07:27):
themselves, you know,political identity or
certain belief systems orvalue systems along the
way, but to be able toarticulate those out loud
and challenge their elders.
That for me was like,I didn't do that until
much later in life.
So I think it was reallyremarkable to see these
(07:47):
16 and 17 year old girls,being able
to do that for themselves.
And it was inspiring.
Honestly.
How do you think thatthese black girls
defined their power?
And that's, you know,compared to what, how
I guess power isconsidered among the,
the older generation?
(08:09):
Well, they were certainlybeing presented with
not just from the cotillion,but from society.
Like these traditional ideasof what success looks
like and achievement.
And some of them reallyinternalize that and put
all of that weighton their shoulders,
as I think many of us do.
(08:29):
But you know, Amelia'sjourney is
really focused on that.
Like how much of the dobetter than the generation
before you and achieveand be the first
to go to college and allthese kinds of things.
Really starts to weighon her, the pressure to succeed.
But I think where they locatetheir power really was like
(08:52):
inauthentically beingthemselves, like finding out
what is authentically themand being able to like sift
through, you know, this iswhat is being presented to
you, this is what is beingpassed down to you and
navigate like what of thatdo I want to take with me
and what if that doesn'tspeak to who I am and who I
want to be going forward.
(09:13):
And so you see the girls inreal time, particularly
Deidre and Taylor of thethree girls that we focus
on in the film, challenginga lot of the traditions
and, and figuring out, youknow, what fits for them
and what doesn't.
What was it like workingwith Sheryl Lee Ralph as
an executive producer?
Was she really deeplyinvolved with putting
(09:35):
some of her visionand voice into this?
Because she isa powerful individual.
Yeah, Cheryl is reallyan actress And a producer
that I admire, her work.
And she came on a littlebit later in the process.
But we're really gratefulfor her partnership
and support as an executiveproducer on this.
(09:56):
Okay.
And were there any particularmoments, I guess,
scenes that, I guess pivotalthat you had to, like,
maybe cut and you reallydidn't want to cut and.
And you know, because Iknow that that process is
kind of difficult, too,when you're trying
to put together a piece.
Yeah, I mean, we filmedfor over a year and a half.
It was starting the summerbefore the cotillion process
(10:16):
started, and the cotillionprocess itself.
The program was a whole yearleading up to the ball.
And we got to the girlsand started interviewing
them when they werejust applying to be a part
of the cotillion.
So they didn't reallyknow what they were
applying for and, like,what all this was.
But my grandmother toldme I had to do it, or my
mother told me I shoulddo it, or my principal.
And so it was reallycool to, like, see them
(10:37):
develop over time.
And now since the film hasbeen out and is up on, the
Comcast, Black Experience,Xfinity platform, and Zumo,
we're a couple of years outsince we filmed, and the
girls are graduating collegenow, and it's really cool to
just see them, become adultsand reflect on their experience.
(11:00):
But, yeah, there was stuffwe had to cut because we
filmed so much for so long.
And let's see.
There's nothing that I'mlike, that should have been
in the film because,you know, you fight
for the things that aresupposed to be in there.
But I really loved, interms of, like, pivotal
scenes, I really love thisone scene that's connected
(11:21):
to, like, Taylor'sdecision about if she's
going to stay in thecotillion or not of, you
know, putting that indialogue with Nicole Bush.
She's one of the co chairsand organizers
of the cotillion, and herideas around, you know,
respectability, politicsand, and that's.
That's a reallyinteresting conversation.
(11:42):
Now, you have already told uswhere we can find the film.
Is there any way to, like,bring it to schools or
libraries or localcommunity screenings if
someone wants to supportthe film in that way?
It's a good question.
I'm not sure what the.
What the opportunity is forthat, but it is available
to stream on ZoomoPlay, so think folks can
(12:06):
access it that way.
I'm sorry that I don'tknow more about if our.
Yeah.
Our ability to do the community.
Last but not least, pleasetell our viewers what
you'd like them to.
I guess what wouldthe message that you'd
like them to take from thiswhole film?
Because there's a lotof different layers
in this, and that'snot just one thing.
I.
I try to put lots of layers in.
(12:27):
In all of my films, for folksto kind of unfold and.
And find wherethey can find themselves
in the storytelling.
But I think for me, really,what I wanted to, say with
this film was that ourstories are worthy of
being told, whether we areachieving the most excellence.
(12:48):
And, you know, I feel likeour stories are often
told at these extremes.
Either they're about ourstruggle and our traumas,
frankly, and exploiting ourpain, or they're only, like,
celebrating us when we're,like, the most accomplished
and the most excellentversion of ourselves as
(13:09):
black people and as blackwomen in particular.
And I really wanted to tella story that sits in
the middle of that and justtells a story of black life
that says we're worthy.
Whether someone canexploit us for our pain or
applaud us for ourexcellence, our stories are
worthy of being told.
And the full rangeof our humanity in between
those two extremes isreally important for us
(13:30):
to see reflectedin storytelling and media.
So that's why I toldthe story, and that's
what I hope folks getfrom watching it.
The Debutantes is morethan just a documentary.
It's a celebrationof Black girlhood, legacy
and self discovery.
My thanks to Contessa Galesfor joining me and sharing
the stories behindthis remarkable film.
You.
You can watch the Debutantesnow on Comcast Black
(13:53):
Experience on XfinityWe haven't had a
and the Zumo Play app.
presented to the world.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, please be sure
to subscribe, like and sharefor more stories that reveal
the beauty and complexityof our culture.
I'm Esther Dillard,and this is the color
between the lines.
Until next time, keeptelling your story.
In this edition of the Colorbetween the Lines.
It was really about service,like wanting to give the
girls some programming,leadership training,
opportunities to cometogether as community and
to meet each other and tomeet mentors and.
I'm talking with Emmynominated filmmaker
Contessa Gales abouther new documentary,
the Debutantes, whichfollows Canton, Ohio's
(00:26):
first black debutanteball in a decade.
We haven't had a cotillionball here for quite
some time, so our goal isto bring it back.
Our vision was to ensureevery girl can participate
in a cotillion debutante programand ball
from urban settings, fromsuburban settings,
from rural settings.
In a light that we don'toften get to see them in.
(00:49):
It's a modern lookat a tradition where
grace, identity and selfdiscovery meet.
Let's get into it.
First, I want to saycongratulations
on the premiere of this and.
And for those who areunfamiliar with cotillions
and debutantes, can youexplain what a debutante
cotillion really actually isfor the audience?
(01:10):
And why does it matterin the black tradition?
So cotillions are essentiallya rite of passage ceremony.
At least that's my takeon them in the film.
I, think this tradition,which, you know, goes
back decades in termsof black communities,
participation and.
(01:31):
Involvement in it, but then,like, centuries, going back
to white European origins.
But when it.
When it came here and whenblack people got a hold
of it and put their spinon it and put their
sauce on, really, I think,is about, community.
At the end of the day.
But of course there's tons ofvalid critiques about the
(01:52):
ways in which it replicates,classism, and patriarchal
ideas about womanhood and,and all of these things that
we explore in the filmthrough the girls that are
participating in thisCotillon tradition.
In Canton, Ohio, where wefilmed, it's the first
cotillion in 10 years.
(02:12):
So Canton hadthe tradition, dating back
to the early 70s.
And then in 2012 they hadtheir last one and it
was gone for a decade.
And this group of women,you know, decided that they
wanted to revive thistradition and really give
the girls in their communitysomething to participate in.
Is.
Is where that desire torevive it was born out of.
(02:36):
It was really aboutservice, like wanting to.
To give the girls someprogramming, leadership
training, opportunities tocome together as community
and to meet each otherand to meet mentors and.
And all of this stuff.
And of course culminating inthis big, grand ball where
they are presented formallyto society in their dresses
(02:58):
and, you know, showcasedand celebrated in this way.
But for me, you know, itwasn't necessarily, a desire
to explore that traditionper se, so much as it was an
opportunity to tell a comingof age story about black girls.
And that's really what'sat the heart of our
film, the Debutantes.
(03:19):
You could have probablypicked a lot
of different cities.
Why Canton, Ohio, forthis particular story?
I know that you.
You explained a little bitabout it, but you could
have gone anywhere.
Why can.
Why Canton?
And why was it so importantto spotlight this particular
city's revival?
I think Canton's a reallyinteresting place.
But the origins of thisparticular story that
(03:42):
became a film was that NBCNews Studios, was developing
something aroundblack middle class life.
And there was a producernamed, there's a producer
named Reniqua Allen Lampherewho found a article in the
Canton Repository, theCanton local newspaper,
about the efforts to revivethis cotillion.
(04:04):
And she thought it was reallyinteresting that, you
know, it was something thathad died and then was
attempting to be revived.
In 2022 is when we endedup filming, with Gen Z.
Like a generation thatdidn't really have
that much connectionto this tradition.
Some of them hadgrandmothers, some of them
had mothers that hadparticipated in it.
(04:25):
But most, for the most part,these girls were a bit
disconnected from the legacyand the traditional.
And I thought, you know,when I came into the fold
and NBC brought me in andwe brought on our partners
Westbrook Studios and BETStudios, that it was going
to be a really interestingarena to talk about the
intersections of race andgender and class in
(04:48):
particular, because thewomen who are organizing
this, knowing that, youknow, traditionally this is
a middle class, uppermiddle class tradition,
wanted to make it moreaccessible, very
intentionally to the girlsin their community, who are
again, you know, lacking inopportunities and programming.
And you know, Canton, Ohiois a post industrial city.
(05:09):
I'm from Buffalo, New Yorkalso similarly like a post
industrial city and whereyou know, there's low and
there's a high unemploymentrate and all of these
factors that make itdifficult for folks to, you
know, live their.
Dreams.
And yeah, so they, so theywanted to bring back this
tradition, but make ita lot more class inclusive.
(05:33):
And that for me was the,the really interesting
part because, innavigating these
traditions, a lot comesup around, you know, the
classism of it all, thepatriarchy of it all.
Like some of these traditionsdon't really fit or make
sense in the girls lives.
And you see how theynavigate that.
(05:54):
The idea of like steppinginto this legacy and what
they're inheriting fromthe black woman before
them, and then themfiguring out what makes
sense in their lives andhow to make it their own
and how they want to bepresented to society.
You know, these are16, 17 year old girls.
They're juniors and seniorsin high school.
And so they're really like,coming into themselves and
(06:15):
finding their own voicesand finding out who they
are and how to articulatethat on screen in front of us.
And we follow the whole classof girls, but there's
three girls in particularwhose stories we follow
and who each kind of,have a different journey.
Their names are Taylor,Deidre, and Amelia.
And I was just very,privileged and honored
(06:37):
that they were asvulnerable as they were
and opening up theirlives, to me and allowing
me to live my childhoodagain vicariously through them.
Well, it's funny, I won'tlet this pass by because you
said you're from Buffalo.
I'm from Buffalo.
It's quite an interesting thing.
Yeah.
Buffalo, New York.
Yeah.
Let's go.
(06:58):
Yeah.
I'm just wondering, youknow, when you were going
through this wholeprocess and filming this
and doing this, did youfind anything that really
surprised you about thewhole process?
I know you've done all yourresearch and everything,
but there might have been somesurprises along the way.
I think what was mostsurprising to me honestly
was the, the girls abilityto not only realize for
(07:27):
themselves, you know,political identity or
certain belief systems orvalue systems along the
way, but to be able toarticulate those out loud
and challenge their elders.
That for me was like,I didn't do that until
much later in life.
So I think it was reallyremarkable to see these
(07:47):
16 and 17 year old girls,being able
to do that for themselves.
And it was inspiring.
Honestly.
How do you think thatthese black girls
defined their power?
And that's, you know,compared to what, how
I guess power isconsidered among the,
the older generation?
(08:09):
Well, they were certainlybeing presented with
not just from the cotillion,but from society.
Like these traditional ideasof what success looks
like and achievement.
And some of them reallyinternalize that and put
all of that weighton their shoulders,
as I think many of us do.
(08:29):
But you know, Amelia'sjourney is
really focused on that.
Like how much of the dobetter than the generation
before you and achieveand be the first
to go to college and allthese kinds of things.
Really starts to weighon her, the pressure to succeed.
But I think where they locatetheir power really was like
(08:52):
inauthentically beingthemselves, like finding out
what is authentically themand being able to like sift
through, you know, this iswhat is being presented to
you, this is what is beingpassed down to you and
navigate like what of thatdo I want to take with me
and what if that doesn'tspeak to who I am and who I
want to be going forward.
(09:13):
And so you see the girls inreal time, particularly
Deidre and Taylor of thethree girls that we focus
on in the film, challenginga lot of the traditions
and, and figuring out, youknow, what fits for them
and what doesn't.
What was it like workingwith Sheryl Lee Ralph as
an executive producer?
Was she really deeplyinvolved with putting
(09:35):
some of her visionand voice into this?
Because she isa powerful individual.
Yeah, Cheryl is reallyan actress And a producer
that I admire, her work.
And she came on a littlebit later in the process.
But we're really gratefulfor her partnership
and support as an executiveproducer on this.
(09:56):
Okay.
And were there any particularmoments, I guess,
scenes that, I guess pivotalthat you had to, like,
maybe cut and you reallydidn't want to cut and.
And you know, because Iknow that that process is
kind of difficult, too,when you're trying
to put together a piece.
Yeah, I mean, we filmedfor over a year and a half.
It was starting the summerbefore the cotillion process
(10:16):
started, and the cotillionprocess itself.
The program was a whole yearleading up to the ball.
And we got to the girlsand started interviewing
them when they werejust applying to be a part
of the cotillion.
So they didn't reallyknow what they were
applying for and, like,what all this was.
But my grandmother toldme I had to do it, or my
mother told me I shoulddo it, or my principal.
And so it was reallycool to, like, see them
(10:37):
develop over time.
And now since the film hasbeen out and is up on, the
Comcast, Black Experience,Xfinity platform, and Zumo,
we're a couple of years outsince we filmed, and the
girls are graduating collegenow, and it's really cool to
just see them, become adultsand reflect on their experience.
(11:00):
But, yeah, there was stuffwe had to cut because we
filmed so much for so long.
And let's see.
There's nothing that I'mlike, that should have been
in the film because,you know, you fight
for the things that aresupposed to be in there.
But I really loved, interms of, like, pivotal
scenes, I really love thisone scene that's connected
(11:21):
to, like, Taylor'sdecision about if she's
going to stay in thecotillion or not of, you
know, putting that indialogue with Nicole Bush.
She's one of the co chairsand organizers
of the cotillion, and herideas around, you know,
respectability, politicsand, and that's.
That's a reallyinteresting conversation.
(11:42):
Now, you have already told uswhere we can find the film.
Is there any way to, like,bring it to schools or
libraries or localcommunity screenings if
someone wants to supportthe film in that way?
It's a good question.
I'm not sure what the.
What the opportunity is forthat, but it is available
to stream on ZoomoPlay, so think folks can
(12:06):
access it that way.
I'm sorry that I don'tknow more about if our.
Yeah.
Our ability to do the community.
Last but not least, pleasetell our viewers what
you'd like them to.
I guess what wouldthe message that you'd
like them to take from thiswhole film?
Because there's a lotof different layers
in this, and that'snot just one thing.
I.
I try to put lots of layers in.
(12:27):
In all of my films, for folksto kind of unfold and.
And find wherethey can find themselves
in the storytelling.
But I think for me, really,what I wanted to, say with
this film was that ourstories are worthy of
being told, whether we areachieving the most excellence.
(12:48):
And, you know, I feel likeour stories are often
told at these extremes.
Either they're about ourstruggle and our traumas,
frankly, and exploiting ourpain, or they're only, like,
celebrating us when we're,like, the most accomplished
and the most excellentversion of ourselves as
(13:09):
black people and as blackwomen in particular.
And I really wanted to tella story that sits in
the middle of that and justtells a story of black life
that says we're worthy.
Whether someone canexploit us for our pain or
applaud us for ourexcellence, our stories are
worthy of being told.
And the full rangeof our humanity in between
those two extremes isreally important for us
(13:30):
to see reflectedin storytelling and media.
So that's why I toldthe story, and that's
what I hope folks getfrom watching it.
The Debutantes is morethan just a documentary.
It's a celebrationof Black girlhood, legacy
and self discovery.
My thanks to Contessa Galesfor joining me and sharing
the stories behindthis remarkable film.
You.
You can watch the Debutantesnow on Comcast Black
(13:53):
Experience on XfinityWe haven't had a
and the Zumo Play app.
presented to the world.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, please be sure
to subscribe, like and sharefor more stories that reveal
the beauty and complexityof our culture.
I'm Esther Dillard,and this is the color
between the lines.
Until next time, keeptelling your story.
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Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
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