Larry Kasanoff, legendary Hollywood producer behind Mortal Kombat, True Lies, and Terminator 2, reveals why the best innovations require "a touch of madness" and how stepping outside conventional thinking leads to breakthrough success.
• Embracing "a touch of madness" as essential for innovation and success
• Fighting against the current that pulls everyone toward mediocrity and conventionality
• Taking a career-defining risk on Platoon despite it being completely different from typical studio fare
• Understanding the essence behind ideas rather than just their surface appearance
• The CAP approach: Create your idea, Ask anyone for help, and Play to boost creativity
• Calling people at the top and reaching higher than seems reasonable
• Maintaining belief in your ideas even when others dismiss them
• Going bigger instead of retreating when facing challenges
• Bringing fun and playfulness back to business and creative endeavors
• Doubling down on activities that make you happy, especially when feeling unhappy
When you're feeling stuck or facing challenges, remember to do more of what makes you happy, not less. Reach out boldly to people you think are unreachable, and whatever you do, put a little crazy back in your life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
If you've been stuck in fear, self-doubt, your past
failures and you're ready tobreak through your comfort zones
to finally reach the pinnacleof success in every area of your
life, then this podcast is foryou.
Here's your host, Terry LFossum.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hey, this is Terry L Fossum, and welcome back to the
Comeback Chronicles, where wedive into moments that test us
and the bold decisions thatbring us back stronger.
Today's guest knows all aboutchasing big dreams and daring to
look crazy while doing it.
Larry Kasanoff is a Hollywoodlegend.
He's the producer or studiohead who made Mortal Kombat,
(00:48):
true Lies, dirty Dancing, lego,star Wars, terminator 2,
judgment Day and many, many more.
He's taken massive risks,backed wild ideas and turned
them into global hits.
He's also the author of A Touchof Madness how to Be More
Innovative in Work and Life bybeing a Little Crazy, a
(01:09):
philosophy that feelstailor-made for comebacks,
because sometimes, to rewriteyour story, you have to be
willing to act a littledifferently than you have in the
past.
Right and maybe well, maybeeven a little crazy, and I got
to tell you, though, this is oneand I told Larry this this is
one of the only books in historythat I'm actually reading a
second time.
(01:30):
It's that good.
So this episode is going to bea masterclass in creative risk,
fearless reinvention and findingyour edge even when the world
thinks you've lost it.
Welcome to the podcast, larryKasanoff.
Appreciate you being here, man,my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Thank, you've lost it .
Welcome to the podcast, LarryKasanoff.
Appreciate you being here man,my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Thank you, and thanks for the kind words.
Heck, yeah.
Well, you said that being alittle crazy is essential for
innovation, and I think that'simportant for everybody to hear
who's listening to this podcast.
What if you narrow down what'sone or one of the top decisions
that you've made in Hollywoodthat everyone else thought was
nuts, but you knew it had to bedone?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
So I'll give you one of the first ones.
So I was wanting to be a movieproducer since I was a little
kid and I got very lucky.
And out of school I got a greatjob instead of production
acquisitions and co-productionfor an independent film studio
called Vestron.
Vestron in those days, the midto late 80s, was riding the wave
of home video, which was a bigcontent gold rush.
Like streaming is today.
Video stores open.
They needed movies.
So my job was to deliver to thecompany 80, eight, zero movies
(02:31):
a year.
Now most studios today make 12movies a year.
They come, buy them, co-producethem.
We don't care, don't lose moneyor you're fired.
Kid, that was it.
And so we made, you know, lowbudget horror movies, action
movies, rom-coms, all with kindof a good, maybe A level cast in
them, very fun stuff.
And then one day I got thescript for a movie called
Platoon.
Now, platoon was a verydifferent script than we usually
(02:52):
did.
It was about the Vietnam Warand the effect it had on kids.
The tagline was the firstcasualty of war is innocence.
This was not the kind of moviewe did, but we had done.
A movie prior with Oliver Stone, who was a director, did.
But we had done a movie priorwith oliver stone, who was a
director.
I thought it was great, I wantedto do it.
My boss said you're nuts, thisisn't what we do.
You're crazy.
See the theme, you're crazy.
But I fought for it and he saidlook, you had a production.
Now you're, you're.
You're the one you can dowhatever you want, but if you
(03:15):
fail you're fired.
What do you want?
And he fired people all thetime.
He wasn't kidding around.
So I thought, well, I didn'tget into the movie business to
play it safe.
But you know how can I bet Idid this incredible job I had no
one else would give me a joblike that after you know, I was
fairly a year out of school andso, but long story, short touch
of the madness, I decided togreen light platoon.
(03:35):
And when I saw platoon thefirst cut of it, it was actually
in italy, in a film festival.
They privately showed it to me.
I'm the only person ever togiggle his way through a
screening of Platoon, notbecause it wasn't so good,
because it was so good.
I was like oh, my God.
I'm not getting fired.
I'm not getting fired.
And it was so good that it wonBest Picture at the Academy
Awards that year.
A few months later after that,I ran into the director in a bar
(03:57):
in New York one night, justcoincidentally, and and he said
you know, kid, I always likedyou.
You have a touch of the madness.
And I thought a touch of themadness, is he calling me a
little crazy?
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Am I a?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
little crazy.
And then it occurred to me myboss had a touch of the madness
by betting an 80-picture filmslate on a 25-year-old kid with
no experience.
Oliver had a touch of themadness by insisting on doing a
Vietnam movie the way no one hadever done it before or not
doing it.
And I had a touch of themadness by betting my job on it.
So that's when it occurred tome that innovation demands a
(04:28):
touch of the madness and thatbecame my touchstone.
And the reason it does isbecause the current of the river
of life will always pull all ofus towards the middle.
It's always imperceptibly tryingto pull us towards the middle,
and the problem being in themiddle, certainly for business,
is that you'll be eclipsed.
Maybe you'll do okay, butyou'll never do great, because
the audience, the customers,want the new and the different,
(04:49):
and the way to swim away fromthat current is with a touch of
the madness, and that gets youinnovation.
And so that became, from thatday forward, my touchstone for
everything I do.
It's how I pick scripts, it'show I pick art, it's how I do
everything a touch of themadness.
And that helps innovation.
And innovation is the key,certainly in my business and I
think in a lot of them.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So you're telling me, if people feel that they are
not normal, that might be a very, very good thing.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Embrace the madness.
That's a great thing,absolutely a great thing.
Everyone's doing it.
I mean, you know, what dopeople in my world, what do
people do when they, you know,skip through streamers and it's
the same movie.
It's the same movie.
It's the same movie.
Why is it?
Well, that's why people arecomplaining.
No, you have to have a touch ofthe madness now.
That requires a bunch of things.
You got to learn it and you gotto be willing to sit with that.
(05:34):
I mean, I'm at the point wherepeople tell me I'm crazy.
I feel comfortable if I don'ttell me I'm crazy.
But yeah, you have to embracethe madness I love it, yeah,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And then when you did , uh, mortal combat, I mean
there there wasn't a video gamemovie playbook at all.
That was completely off thecharts right there.
What in the world gave you theguts to believe in something
that no one else has ever pulledoff?
And how could somebodylistening to this right now
apply that to their own life?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
everyone, everyone told me I was really crazy for
that one they had to so when wemade a terminator 2, we had an
arcade game and a video game.
Arcade games and, for those whodon't know or remember where
places, you went and put a coinin a kind of big video game
console and played in in in apublic room and so, um, the
arcade game was the number onearcade game ever.
And I became very friendly withthe company that made it and I
(06:26):
heard through the grapevine thatthey were testing a game that
was doing great.
And I was on my way to chicagofor something else and I stopped
in to see them.
I said, well, what's this game?
You can't have.
This we got, we can't break.
We can't break our record onterminator 2.
We're just kidding around.
And they had one version of amortal combat console game in
the chairman's office in Chicagoand I played it and I turned to
him and I said this is StarWars meets Enter the Dragon.
(06:48):
It's a Hong Kong martial artsmovie and I will be able to
Hollywood this up.
You know, gorgeous people,great music, great visual
effects, great locations.
This has never been done.
And I turned to him and I said,if you give me the rights, I
guarantee you I won't just makea hit movie.
I'll put it in every medium inthe world.
(07:11):
You know music, live theater,animation, tv.
And you know what he said ah,piece of crap, video game.
Even the chairman of thecompany didn't think it was
right.
But the secret is here's thebig secret.
I didn't think I was making amovie out of a video game.
I thought I was making a movieout of the essence of what a
video game is made out of.
And you have to.
When you create your great ideayou know it's easy to say in a
fun podcast you're a fun guy,which is great, great ideas.
One of the things you have todo is say well, why is your idea
(07:32):
great?
What's the essence?
And the essence of MortalKombat to me was always
empowerment.
That's what martial arts is allabout.
So the top of the intellectualproperty pyramid in that one
wasn't the video game, it wasthe story, the essence of the
video game.
And then, if you take that now,you can go down one rung and
have a movie and go back up andgo down one rung and have a and
have a tv show and go down onerung and have a animation.
(07:54):
So to me, moral comment was andalways is.
We're still making them always.
What was about that?
It wasn't about a video game.
That's what everyone got wrongand that's that's what gave me
the courage to do it.
So you have to kind of figureout the essence of why your idea
is great is.
Is starbucks about good coffee,I think.
I would argue it's about aplace to gather that no one
really thought was needed.
You have to, and if you believein the essence of your idea,
(08:18):
you won't change a thing.
And then the next thing youhave to do is exactly that.
Everyone again the current ofthe river is going to try and
get you to change.
Once you come up with your ideaand you believe in the essence
of it, you got to do it.
Can I give you an example?
So when we did Dirty Dancing itwas a movie that it had been a
turnaround from another studio,meaning another studio started
(08:38):
and gave it up and we got it andit wasn't going all that great
and we managed to lure thisgenius named Jimmy Einer, who
was a musical and producinggenius, to come and supervise
Jerry Dancing.
He hired another genius namedMichael Lloyd as the music
supervisor, and so now thatthese two guys were in charge
you could read a little easier.
And the song Time of my Lifehad already been recorded as a
(09:06):
kind of high falsetto, almostdisco-y song and jimmy said,
well, no, this isn't right.
And he redid it.
They redid the song, jimmy andmichael, with a guy named bill
medley, and then they sent it tothe, you know, to everybody, to
the, to the record company andand to the directors and and to
the managers, and everyone had amillion comments, a million.
We don't like it.
We got to change it, we got todo this, we make these changes.
And so Jimmy and Michael saidyeah, listen, no problem, sure,
give us a few weeks, we'll makethe changes.
And thank you very much.
A few weeks later they sent outversion two and they said here's
(09:28):
version two, hope you like it.
And they said, by the way, wesent it to some radio stations.
In those days, radio stationswere very integral to writing an
album and the radio stationsseemed to like it, hope you like
version two.
Everyone came back we loveversion two.
Version two is the greatest.
Thank you so much for being sogood.
And you read the book so youknow that the punchline here is
what it?
What genius thing did jimmy dobetween version one and version
two?
What did he change?
(09:48):
And here's what he changednothing, not a dang thing he
changed the label.
He knew what he had.
He doubled down because bysending to radio stations if
they didn't like it they wouldhave have been screwed.
He changed the label.
That song won the Grammy andthe Academy Award that year for
the best song.
Why?
Because Jimmy and Michael had atouch of the madness.
It's not only to producesomething great, but to double
(10:10):
down and believe it.
Believe it, believe it.
That's what you got to do.
Understand the essence of youridea and hang on and never let
go.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Because 100,000 people are going to tell you
you're wrong, yeah, yeah.
I think that's so critical foreverybody here because I think
there's a lot of people thatlisten, that are listening right
now, that have these ideas, butthey're they're counter culture
, they're counterintuitive,they're counter everything and
therefore, like you said, withthe status quo, everybody there
seems to be a magnetic pull backto status quo.
Yeah, there is Fight against it.
Pull back to status quo.
Yeah, there is Fight against it.
Fight against it, man, go withyour outlandish idea.
It's the only ones that make amark.
(10:44):
Would that be?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
right?
Yeah, absolutely.
You have to fight against thatcurrent which is always going to
pull you towards the middle.
That's how you do somethinggreat.
Nothing great happens withouttaking a chance.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I love that.
I love that.
Now, that being said, there'sbeen some times where you did
that and the madness backfired.
It didn't work.
How did you bounce back?
How did you pivot?
Okay, you, you came to thispoint.
Crap, that didn't work.
How did?
Because everybody listening hadthat point I have, we all have,
we still do.
How do you pull back from that?
Speaker 3 (11:12):
well.
So first of all, I mean youknow it's okay to be, you know,
not thrilled for a day or two,but that happens.
But.
And second of all, you got torealize you know if you're like
an american baseball, if you bat300, you're, you're like one of
the best ever.
So I mean, if you miss sevenout of ten, you're you're doing
amazing.
So no one bats a thousand.
But what I tend to do is, whenthings get like that, your, your
(11:34):
, your instinct, yourinclination is to.
Well, I'll just, I'll repackageit now and I'll try a smaller
version.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
When you're in trouble likethat, go bigger.
I was having trouble onceselling an animated movie.
I just couldn't sell thisanimated movie and we had just
recently been in the animationbusiness.
I've been in the live actionbusiness, my whole life in
animation.
We got into a bit further onand then I thought you know, if
(11:55):
I can't sell one, maybe I couldsell 12.
And I did, and and I came upwith a package of a host.
It's got a slate.
So not just by wanting to makea movie, but finance the whole
slate.
And I did, it worked.
So when in doubt and when youthink, oh my God, they're
beating me up.
They're beating me up, gobigger Attack when they tell you
to retreat.
That's what you do.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I absolutely love it and I've got to ask you.
I've been wanting to ask youthis for quite some time.
One of the most brilliantthings in the entire Lego movie
world to me is when they'refiring weapons and they go pew
pew, pew, pew.
It kills me, it slays me everytime.
That's a crazy idea.
(12:37):
That's insane.
It'll never work.
Who came up with that?
Whose brilliant idea was that I?
Speaker 3 (12:42):
don't remember.
You know, the Lego people whenwe got to them were, you know,
Lego wasn't doing as good as itis now and so they were afraid
of a big movie and it doesn'twork, it would hurt them.
So we came up with the idea ofdoing a smaller movie through
Universal and putting it on DVDand if that worked, great.
And if it didn't, no one wouldnotice.
And that's what we did.
It was called Lego, theAdventures of Clutch Powers.
It was the first everfeature-length Lego movie.
(13:03):
But Lego knew the essence ofLego.
They really knew their brand.
I mean, they had the wholemotto we build on each other, so
they physically build andthere's a theme.
They really knew their stuffincredibly well.
I mean, some brands don't evenexist.
As I said, mortal kombat didn'teven exist as a brand before we
.
We got to it but and some otherthings didn't.
But the lego people really knowwhat they're talking about
(13:25):
right on, right on, now andagain brilliant movies.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I love them.
I absolutely love them.
They, they crack me up everytime.
You've worked with a lot ofinteresting people james cameron
, arnold schwarzenegger, etc.
Etc.
Etc.
What are some times where theybroke the rules in a very good
way.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
It maybe this wasn't supposed to happen that way, but
they did it and it worked outfantastic it was a time in
terminator two when a helicopterwas supposed to fly through a,
a traffic tunnel, and we weregoing to do that shot digitally
and and, um, we were shootingoutside in long beach in
(14:04):
southern california there's anoil refinery and a huge one, and
and the tunnel we were shootingat was there.
But you know it was ahelicopter and and the chasing
was there, but the helicopterpart was going to be done
digitally and we were a littlebehind schedule and the
helicopter pilot I forget hisname was a great guy.
He'd been a former formerVietnam combat pilot and he said
why aren't I flying that?
I said well, you only have liketwo feet of clearance on each
(14:25):
side.
He goes I can do that all daylong with my eyes closed while
eating a sandwich.
He goes I'm a Vietnamhelicopter pilot.
I've been zipping betweenpeople trying to kill me all day
.
This is nothing.
And we were all sitting aroundgoing really nothing and we were
all sitting around going reallynothing, and he goes no problem
and, and you know, the studiowasn't there and, technically
(14:46):
speaking, we weren't supposed todo that insurance wise, because
you just think you want to in.
You don't want the guy to gethurt, first and foremost, but
second of all you don't want anexplosion outside of an oil
factory anyway we did it.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
There's a lot of reasons that's a really bad idea
, Larry.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
But the guy was so great about that I mean, the
studio hit the roof the next day, but on the other hand they
were thrilled that we got backon schedule.
And you don't do itirresponsibly.
You get to the point where theexpert is telling you I can do
this, no problem, and he justdid.
And sometimes these decisionsthis is my point get made very,
(15:22):
very, very, very quickly.
Sometimes you don't have thetime to analyze it, you can't go
back and forth.
Everything can't be a committee.
Sometimes you just got to takea shot and that's what we did.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Well, that's leadership, isn't it?
That's part of leadership rightthere, Making the hard calls
and going with them.
Making hard calls and goingwith them.
Making hard calls yeah, yeah,absolutely.
Now, you gave a lot of greatstories in your book, of course.
What's some of your favoritestories about?
Again, people just doing alittle bit of crazy and it
worked out for them.
There was a great one at adinner.
There's a bunch of them.
Go for it.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Well, so I have three things.
The first thing is you have tocreate your idea and know the
essence of your brand um thesecond thing and hold it on
tight.
The second thing is I I believeyou have to ask anyone anywhere
in the world, anything you needto advance your goal, anything.
And, and mostly like when Ispeak, I say to an audience if
you could call anyone who'salive right now and ask them a
(16:17):
relevant question, who would youcall and what would you ask?
And most people go it's just Idon't know, I never thought
about it.
And the reason people don'tknow is because we're trained.
We're not trained to think wecan.
I had an incredible professor atcollege named rose goldson who,
since I, was a freshman incollege.
So you can call anybody.
So I've been doing this evenbefore I was a movie producer
and so there's a millionexamples of it.
But we didn't animate a movieduring the pandemic for
(16:38):
universal called um bobbleheads.
You know big bobbling heads,and we wanted share to play
bobblehead, share and share.
Never done animated movie before.
So people say, oh, there's noway and she's not gonna eat.
We want her likeness.
But we call, I called and youknow, ask, ask, ask.
And she did it and she wasgreat in it.
And when the movie came out,people magazine interviewed her
and they said, share, you'venever done an animated movie
(16:59):
before, why did you say yes tothis one?
And she said I never did ananimated movie before because no
one ever asked me before that'ssomething I did.
So you got to think if share,you know clearly one of the most
famous, talented women on earthis sitting there, no one ever
asked her.
Who in your world are you notcalling?
Because you think, oh,everyone's got to call them, but
maybe they're asking.
Call, ask, take a shot.
(17:22):
Look, I still get people whosay no to me every day.
Well, while my, my arrogant,megalomaniac ego is like, well,
who'd say no to me?
But it happens constantly.
It doesn't go away, and and and.
But then you, it's not fun, butyou think well, so what?
So?
They said no, so the next guy,talk more about that, if you
know.
So what so?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
what I'm sorry, and I'm getting a little bit of a
delay, so keep going oh so, soanyway.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
So you have to just ask anybody anything to advance
your goal and if, share what wasnever asked to do something,
who in your life isn't, and Iwould suggest you figure out
your person.
But maybe you're a littlescared to call your share.
So I you know, call Uncle Philand ask him why he never comes
to Thanksgiving.
I mean, there's a million waysyou can start that.
But get in the habit of justcalling people and going to the
(18:11):
top and calling as high and asreaching as you can and ask yeah
, and how do you because, again,you're a human being and you've
got feelings too when you keepgetting those no's?
that even you get.
How do you keep moving forward?
Because I 100%.
Back to the dirty dancingexample.
I 100% believe in my ideas.
(18:31):
That's the deal.
I only sell what I would buyand I 100% believe.
And if someone says no to me,my first instinct as arrogant as
this sounds is oh, they'recrazy, they're wrong, what's the
matter with them?
There you go.
I prefer they say yes, but I?
I think it's insane.
This is the best idea in theworld.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I've always convinced my ideas are the best, and you
know they're not always, but I'mconvinced they are well, and
that that's one of the things Iteach in public speaking is
people get so wrapped up inthemselves.
Oh, I'm gonna screw up, I'mgonna.
I'm going to say it's not aboutyou, it's about your idea, it's
about getting that across topeople and that's what you're
saying is the same exact concepthere.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Right, and it's about the audience.
I mean, you really you work, weall work for the audience.
It's like what does theaudience want?
I mean, when people say, well,I don't like this, and
especially if you're in abusiness like mine, you only
care what the audience wants.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
We're just, I'm just the custodian for the audience.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And along with that, peoplemake these excuses why they
can't call those people.
They can't do whatever it is.
What's one excuse you had letgo of early on, if you had them
at all?
I mean, you started off pretty,pretty bold, pretty quick, but
did you have anything that youhad to get over early on
yourself?
In terms of calling people no,in terms of anything, anything I
(19:49):
have to get over.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Well, you're, I'm always trying to get better, I'm
always trying to learn.
I'm still trying to learn.
So I'm I always seek out people, not just to ask will you do
this in my movies?
I mean, I'm all, I'm constantlytrying to read and learn and
and I I call some people who, um, you know who, who are not, uh,
what you might think, and Ithink you have to be very open
(20:11):
that you might learn somethingfrom some of the people you're
calling which is not what youintended.
So in mortal kombat, I uh, whenare we doing the first one to
combat?
I read a book by a Zen Buddhistmonk named Thich Nhat Hanh,
who's a very passed awayrecently but is a very
well-known Zen Buddhist monk,credited with bringing
mindfulness to the West, and Ilove the book and I thought so,
(20:33):
what did I want to do with thispeaceful Zen Buddhist monk?
I thought, hey, maybe he couldbe inspiration for my ultra
action-packed Mortal Kombatfranchise.
So I called him up to go seehim as inspiration for Mortal
Kombat, for my ultraaction-packed Mortal Kombat
franchise.
So I called him up to go seehim as inspiration for Mortal
Kombat.
But, being open to you know, asI said, you might learn
something.
After two hours I felt like I'dbeen on vacation for a week and
I said what's your secret?
(20:53):
And he said no secret practice.
And I said I could learn how tofeel this way.
You know, I'm a kind of a highenergy guy and we became friends
and so I hung out with him allover the place.
I got to know some of the othermonks.
I started practicingmindfulness.
I had him to my house to give atalk to other studio heads.
(21:13):
We became really close and thenhe asked me to do a documentary
on mindfulness, which I did,called Mindfulness, be Happy Now
, which is on Amazon and I.
It was an amazing thing that Icalled tic-nac-haw, but not for
the reason I thought.
So I think what you have to beopen to is sometimes the path
takes you a little bitdifferently than you want to go,
(21:34):
than you intended to go, butthat might be great yeah, I love
it.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I love it absolutely and and go with it.
I mean, I'm in the middle of alot of that right now.
My paths are going 12 differentdirections.
I never expected this being oneof them, quite frankly.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, that's a great opportunity and you're looking
at it the right way.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
If you look at it as an opportunity, oh gosh, yes,
and they keep opening andopening If you let them, if
you're open to them and Be boldwith them.
So what are some more stories?
That you've again a lot ofgreat stories in your book, one
of the many reasons I love itand am reading it again.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
So here's another one .
So you know I call it CAPCreate, ask, play, create your
great idea, believe in theessence, never let it go, Ask we
just talked about.
And the third one is play.
Play and fun, I believe, arewildly underrated in today's
world.
Especially fun, I mean we, Imean my whole mission in my
movies now is to bring fun back.
We just want to have more fun.
But also, if you manage to liveyour life and your work life in
(22:31):
a bit of a state of play, likeyou know, you and I just talked
about dogs before we started.
Yeah, look at, the dog is justplaying all day long, having a
great time, you are, you aremore open, you are more creative
and you're more interesting.
So when one of the first ummovies I was ever right when I
started my job, the company hadordered a movie, the first movie
prior to my getting there, andit was what you might call a low
(22:54):
budget game of thrones typemovie in those days and and the
guy who ran the company was agreat guy he said to me and my
development staff okay, I wanteverything in the book, throwing
it I want.
I want ghosts, I want violence,I want sex, I want warfare, I
want you know, and on and on andon.
And we were like laughing, likehe was trying to say just
whatever it is that stuff sells,and, and, and someone in the
(23:15):
group said and, and, snakes andwizards.
And everyone said yes, snakesand wizards.
And it became our, ourtouchstone.
You know, let's, let's havesnakes and wizards.
And the I was the studio headand the executive producer, but
the producer was already on theground in italy.
We were going to make it andwhen we'd have conference calls
before I went over there, wewould end the calls by saying I
remember snakes and wizards,thanks.
So I get there.
(23:36):
I think it's going well.
It's my first film set.
And then the crew says to me inItaly, we're in Rome.
They said, listen, on Thursdaywe have a surprise for you.
And they were very excited andI said, oh, and the more it got
to a Thursday where you knowWednesday they're really excited
.
Make sure you're here at thistime.
So Thursday comes and they takeme outside and they're all
standing behind me and you seein the hills of Rome a little
(23:57):
speck of dust and nothing.
And it's getting bigger and yourealize it's a truck and now
they're in a semicircle behindme and there's a band playing.
I don't know where.
They got a band closer andthey're all so proud and the
truck backs up and you can seeit's a circus truck and and it
stops and the doors pour openand out run all these men and
women dressed as wizards, withsnakes like burmese type pythons
(24:19):
and boa constrictors aroundtheir necks, and they all shared
.
We got you the snakes andwizards, except it was a joke,
we were just kidding.
We forgot to tell them we werekidding.
There's no snakes and wizardsin the script, so not in a state
of play as a first movie.
I would have freaked out, Iwould have yelled at them what
are you doing?
You don't have the money forthis.
You're going to be behind now.
This isn't the budget.
(24:39):
Blah, blah, blah.
In a state of play which youkind of are in a film studio
where everyone is drinking winefor lunch, which is unheard of
here, and they were being sonice to me and I remember my
boss saying I want everythingyou can think of.
I said what put him in themovie?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I love it.
How did you put him in?
How do you fit him in the movie?
Speaker 3 (24:58):
we just they were party scenes or they were wild
scenes.
We just threw in snakes andwizards and you know what?
The movie really is terrible,but it actually made a fortune
and the snakes and wizards lookgreat.
So in a state of play you'llhandle a situation much better
than you want.
(25:18):
And that doesn't mean don'ttake it seriously.
I think if you ask Tom Bradywhen he was playing football if
he took it seriously but you areplaying a game and if you can
think that way, that's a toughone.
If you can think that way, doit.
Look at your staff today,wherever you're doing, say you
know what?
How come we've never done this?
How come we've never gonebowling?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
How come we've never whatever.
Take Friday off early and gohave ice cream?
I mean, whenever it is, it doeswork.
I love it, and I think one ofthe best examples is Jamie Lee
Curtis the dance in True Lies.
She brought the crazy.
Yes, tell us about how thathappened.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Well, we're not sure that that's how this happened.
It's a theory.
So I had done a movie withJamie called Blue Steel before,
prior to True, true lies, and wewere, we were in con film
festival and we were looking fora female lead for true lies.
We're this big event, thisblack tie event, at the hotel
decaf, this beautiful hotel, andum and and and uh, and
(26:17):
something comes whizzing by myface and I go what the hell is
that?
And a second later somethingelse comes and then I see it's a
pea and I turn around and likewe're like black tie dinner for
some charity.
It is like you know, man.
And then slowly more foodhappens and I look back and
jamie is, he's.
They really, it's just laughing.
Now I have no proof that thatjamie heard we were casting,
(26:39):
knew, knew us and was justtrying to, in a funny way, say,
hey, I'm fun, let's talk.
But that's what happened.
Now maybe she did it, maybe shedidn't, maybe jim would have
cast her anyway even if shedidn't do that, but I hope she
did.
I never really asked her, but Ihope she did, because what fun,
playful way, you know, ratherthan and, of course, as you said
(26:59):
, the role in the movie.
I mean, one of the interestingthings about that movie is that
movie has so many effects and somuch action and the first time
a Harrier jet was ever used in amovie and the thing that people
always say to me about it theirfavorite scene is when Jamie
tries to be sexy in front ofArnold and can't quite do it and
it's kind of a goofball.
So the play trumped everything.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I would not, but the play was incredibly popular and
successful in that movieAbsolutely, and I would argue
that it is indeed one of themost memorable scenes in that
entire movie and, if everybody'splayful, that's one of the most
memorable scenes that peoplewill have from your life too
that they enjoyed being aroundyou, that you enjoyed life, that
good things are happening.
And this is some coaching forthe people listening in.
Just keep that in mind, man,when you start getting too
(27:45):
wrapped up in all the bad thingsgoing on, all the challenges,
the things you're going through,play, have fun.
People will remember that, wow,you came through that with that
attitude, with flying colors,and helped lift people up
instead of tearing them down.
Does that make sense, larry?
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah, you know what else too.
It's very interesting if youknow.
I believe, that people arewatching a movie and maybe the
plot isn't, doesn't make perfectsense or maybe something's
wrong, but if they're having fun, they will forgive you for
anything.
People will forgive us anything.
We're having fun and I reallythink no kidding that we've
gotten too far away from fun.
Our society, and I think it'scoming back and we certainly are
trying.
We've got some crazy moviesplanned coming up, but I think
(28:23):
that's right.
You have to if you can play andget that into your life.
And again, look at a dog.
He's just playing all day long.
He's doing everything's a blast.
It's a great way to live.
We can learn a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I love it.
So we're getting near the endof our time.
What?
What are some things that youknow and this is the Comeback
Chronicles you know.
So people are going throughchallenges, coming back.
What are some pieces of adviceyou'd give for people to get
through this and excel, whateverthat means to them?
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Well, you know, I wrote A Touch of the Madness
because I came to realize thatI'd never seen it so bad in
terms of people being scared togo for it.
I mean, people are always alittle trepidatious, but I'd
never seen it so bad in terms ofpeople being scared to go for
it.
I mean, people are always alittle trepidatious, but I've
never seen it so bad.
And I was sort of whining to mybrother about it during the
pandemic and he said we'll writea book.
So I did.
So I hope the book helps and Ispeak about this and I think the
(29:14):
best thing to do is, you know,I mean I hope if you read the
book it helps or listen to it.
But what you have to do is justkeep going.
You just have to keep going andyou have to try and do the
things we said.
You know, ask people, you'd besurprised.
Everyone won't say yes, butyou'd be surprised.
Who does, you know, believe inyour idea?
Play, and if you do all thosethings, it will work.
(29:35):
You know, a psychiatrist friendof mine who runs a psychiatric
hospital said he sometimes saysto to people what are the three
things you do that make youhappy?
And people say, oh well, I loveriding my bike and playing my
dog eating ice cream, this isgreat when you're not happy.
Then someone went wrong.
Do you do more of those thingsor less of those things?
And they said, oh less.
And they said, well, shouldn'tyou do more of those things when
(29:58):
you're not happy?
Because you know they make youhappier?
And people think for a minute.
But intuitively we don't, andthat's what you should do Double
down on what makes you happy.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
That is insane advice , fantastic advice.
That is the culmination of thispodcast, without question,
because if people will just dothat alone, that'll be amazingly
helpful for them.
So I'll wrap this up foreverybody listening Play.
Do the things that make youhappy when you don't feel like
doing them the most, becausethat's when they'll mean the
(30:33):
most to you.
Reach out boldly and ask thepeople.
Talk to the people you don'tthink you can reach because they
might be waiting to be reached,kind of like the prettiest girl
at the prom you can reachbecause they might be waiting to
be reached.
Kind of like the prettiest girlat the prom.
Yep.
And whatever you do, put alittle crazy back in your life
and everything you do and havefun and you might have your own.
You will have your own ComebackChronicle.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
So that's it for today's episode of the Comeback
Chronicles.
Head on over to Apple Podcastsor wherever you listen, and
subscribe to the show.
If you're ready to get overyour fears, self-doubts and past
failures and break through yourcomfort zone to reach the
pinnacle of success in everyarea of your life, head over to
terrielfawesomecom to pick upyour free gifts and so much more
(31:20):
.
We'll see you next week on theComeback Chronicles podcast.
If you've been stuck in fear, self-doubt, your past
failures and you're ready tobreak through your comfort zones
to finally reach the pinnacleof success in every area of your
life, then this podcast is foryou.
Here's your host, Terry LFossum.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hey, this is Terry L Fossum, and welcome back to the
Comeback Chronicles, where wedive into moments that test us
and the bold decisions thatbring us back stronger.
Today's guest knows all aboutchasing big dreams and daring to
look crazy while doing it.
Larry Kasanoff is a Hollywoodlegend.
He's the producer or studiohead who made Mortal Kombat,
(00:48):
true Lies, dirty Dancing, lego,star Wars, terminator 2,
judgment Day and many, many more.
He's taken massive risks,backed wild ideas and turned
them into global hits.
He's also the author of A Touchof Madness how to Be More
Innovative in Work and Life bybeing a Little Crazy, a
(01:09):
philosophy that feelstailor-made for comebacks,
because sometimes, to rewriteyour story, you have to be
willing to act a littledifferently than you have in the
past.
Right and maybe well, maybeeven a little crazy, and I got
to tell you, though, this is oneand I told Larry this this is
one of the only books in historythat I'm actually reading a
second time.
(01:30):
It's that good.
So this episode is going to bea masterclass in creative risk,
fearless reinvention and findingyour edge even when the world
thinks you've lost it.
Welcome to the podcast, larryKasanoff.
Appreciate you being here, man,my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Thank, you've lost it .
Welcome to the podcast, LarryKasanoff.
Appreciate you being here man,my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Thank you, and thanks for the kind words.
Heck, yeah.
Well, you said that being alittle crazy is essential for
innovation, and I think that'simportant for everybody to hear
who's listening to this podcast.
What if you narrow down what'sone or one of the top decisions
that you've made in Hollywoodthat everyone else thought was
nuts, but you knew it had to bedone?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
So I'll give you one of the first ones.
So I was wanting to be a movieproducer since I was a little
kid and I got very lucky.
And out of school I got a greatjob instead of production
acquisitions and co-productionfor an independent film studio
called Vestron.
Vestron in those days, the midto late 80s, was riding the wave
of home video, which was a bigcontent gold rush.
Like streaming is today.
Video stores open.
They needed movies.
So my job was to deliver to thecompany 80, eight, zero movies
(02:31):
a year.
Now most studios today make 12movies a year.
They come, buy them, co-producethem.
We don't care, don't lose moneyor you're fired.
Kid, that was it.
And so we made, you know, lowbudget horror movies, action
movies, rom-coms, all with kindof a good, maybe A level cast in
them, very fun stuff.
And then one day I got thescript for a movie called
Platoon.
Now, platoon was a verydifferent script than we usually
(02:52):
did.
It was about the Vietnam Warand the effect it had on kids.
The tagline was the firstcasualty of war is innocence.
This was not the kind of moviewe did, but we had done.
A movie prior with Oliver Stone, who was a director, did.
But we had done a movie priorwith oliver stone, who was a
director.
I thought it was great, I wantedto do it.
My boss said you're nuts, thisisn't what we do.
You're crazy.
See the theme, you're crazy.
But I fought for it and he saidlook, you had a production.
Now you're, you're.
You're the one you can dowhatever you want, but if you
(03:15):
fail you're fired.
What do you want?
And he fired people all thetime.
He wasn't kidding around.
So I thought, well, I didn'tget into the movie business to
play it safe.
But you know how can I bet Idid this incredible job I had no
one else would give me a joblike that after you know, I was
fairly a year out of school andso, but long story, short touch
of the madness, I decided togreen light platoon.
(03:35):
And when I saw platoon thefirst cut of it, it was actually
in italy, in a film festival.
They privately showed it to me.
I'm the only person ever togiggle his way through a
screening of Platoon, notbecause it wasn't so good,
because it was so good.
I was like oh, my God.
I'm not getting fired.
I'm not getting fired.
And it was so good that it wonBest Picture at the Academy
Awards that year.
A few months later after that,I ran into the director in a bar
(03:57):
in New York one night, justcoincidentally, and and he said
you know, kid, I always likedyou.
You have a touch of the madness.
And I thought a touch of themadness, is he calling me a
little crazy?
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Am I a?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
little crazy.
And then it occurred to me myboss had a touch of the madness
by betting an 80-picture filmslate on a 25-year-old kid with
no experience.
Oliver had a touch of themadness by insisting on doing a
Vietnam movie the way no one hadever done it before or not
doing it.
And I had a touch of themadness by betting my job on it.
So that's when it occurred tome that innovation demands a
(04:28):
touch of the madness and thatbecame my touchstone.
And the reason it does isbecause the current of the river
of life will always pull all ofus towards the middle.
It's always imperceptibly tryingto pull us towards the middle,
and the problem being in themiddle, certainly for business,
is that you'll be eclipsed.
Maybe you'll do okay, butyou'll never do great, because
the audience, the customers,want the new and the different,
(04:49):
and the way to swim away fromthat current is with a touch of
the madness, and that gets youinnovation.
And so that became, from thatday forward, my touchstone for
everything I do.
It's how I pick scripts, it'show I pick art, it's how I do
everything a touch of themadness.
And that helps innovation.
And innovation is the key,certainly in my business and I
think in a lot of them.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So you're telling me, if people feel that they are
not normal, that might be a very, very good thing.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Embrace the madness.
That's a great thing,absolutely a great thing.
Everyone's doing it.
I mean, you know, what dopeople in my world, what do
people do when they, you know,skip through streamers and it's
the same movie.
It's the same movie.
It's the same movie.
Why is it?
Well, that's why people arecomplaining.
No, you have to have a touch ofthe madness now.
That requires a bunch of things.
You got to learn it and you gotto be willing to sit with that.
(05:34):
I mean, I'm at the point wherepeople tell me I'm crazy.
I feel comfortable if I don'ttell me I'm crazy.
But yeah, you have to embracethe madness I love it, yeah,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And then when you did , uh, mortal combat, I mean
there there wasn't a video gamemovie playbook at all.
That was completely off thecharts right there.
What in the world gave you theguts to believe in something
that no one else has ever pulledoff?
And how could somebodylistening to this right now
apply that to their own life?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
everyone, everyone told me I was really crazy for
that one they had to so when wemade a terminator 2, we had an
arcade game and a video game.
Arcade games and, for those whodon't know or remember where
places, you went and put a coinin a kind of big video game
console and played in in in apublic room and so, um, the
arcade game was the number onearcade game ever.
And I became very friendly withthe company that made it and I
(06:26):
heard through the grapevine thatthey were testing a game that
was doing great.
And I was on my way to chicagofor something else and I stopped
in to see them.
I said, well, what's this game?
You can't have.
This we got, we can't break.
We can't break our record onterminator 2.
We're just kidding around.
And they had one version of amortal combat console game in
the chairman's office in Chicagoand I played it and I turned to
him and I said this is StarWars meets Enter the Dragon.
(06:48):
It's a Hong Kong martial artsmovie and I will be able to
Hollywood this up.
You know, gorgeous people,great music, great visual
effects, great locations.
This has never been done.
And I turned to him and I said,if you give me the rights, I
guarantee you I won't just makea hit movie.
I'll put it in every medium inthe world.
(07:11):
You know music, live theater,animation, tv.
And you know what he said ah,piece of crap, video game.
Even the chairman of thecompany didn't think it was
right.
But the secret is here's thebig secret.
I didn't think I was making amovie out of a video game.
I thought I was making a movieout of the essence of what a
video game is made out of.
And you have to.
When you create your great ideayou know it's easy to say in a
fun podcast you're a fun guy,which is great, great ideas.
One of the things you have todo is say well, why is your idea
(07:32):
great?
What's the essence?
And the essence of MortalKombat to me was always
empowerment.
That's what martial arts is allabout.
So the top of the intellectualproperty pyramid in that one
wasn't the video game, it wasthe story, the essence of the
video game.
And then, if you take that now,you can go down one rung and
have a movie and go back up andgo down one rung and have a and
have a tv show and go down onerung and have a animation.
(07:54):
So to me, moral comment was andalways is.
We're still making them always.
What was about that?
It wasn't about a video game.
That's what everyone got wrongand that's that's what gave me
the courage to do it.
So you have to kind of figureout the essence of why your idea
is great is.
Is starbucks about good coffee,I think.
I would argue it's about aplace to gather that no one
really thought was needed.
You have to, and if you believein the essence of your idea,
(08:18):
you won't change a thing.
And then the next thing youhave to do is exactly that.
Everyone again the current ofthe river is going to try and
get you to change.
Once you come up with your ideaand you believe in the essence
of it, you got to do it.
Can I give you an example?
So when we did Dirty Dancing itwas a movie that it had been a
turnaround from another studio,meaning another studio started
(08:38):
and gave it up and we got it andit wasn't going all that great
and we managed to lure thisgenius named Jimmy Einer, who
was a musical and producinggenius, to come and supervise
Jerry Dancing.
He hired another genius namedMichael Lloyd as the music
supervisor, and so now thatthese two guys were in charge
you could read a little easier.
And the song Time of my Lifehad already been recorded as a
(09:06):
kind of high falsetto, almostdisco-y song and jimmy said,
well, no, this isn't right.
And he redid it.
They redid the song, jimmy andmichael, with a guy named bill
medley, and then they sent it tothe, you know, to everybody, to
the, to the record company andand to the directors and and to
the managers, and everyone had amillion comments, a million.
We don't like it.
We got to change it, we got todo this, we make these changes.
And so Jimmy and Michael saidyeah, listen, no problem, sure,
give us a few weeks, we'll makethe changes.
And thank you very much.
A few weeks later they sent outversion two and they said here's
(09:28):
version two, hope you like it.
And they said, by the way, wesent it to some radio stations.
In those days, radio stationswere very integral to writing an
album and the radio stationsseemed to like it, hope you like
version two.
Everyone came back we loveversion two.
Version two is the greatest.
Thank you so much for being sogood.
And you read the book so youknow that the punchline here is
what it?
What genius thing did jimmy dobetween version one and version
two?
What did he change?
(09:48):
And here's what he changednothing, not a dang thing he
changed the label.
He knew what he had.
He doubled down because bysending to radio stations if
they didn't like it they wouldhave have been screwed.
He changed the label.
That song won the Grammy andthe Academy Award that year for
the best song.
Why?
Because Jimmy and Michael had atouch of the madness.
It's not only to producesomething great, but to double
(10:10):
down and believe it.
Believe it, believe it.
That's what you got to do.
Understand the essence of youridea and hang on and never let
go.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Because 100,000 people are going to tell you
you're wrong, yeah, yeah.
I think that's so critical foreverybody here because I think
there's a lot of people thatlisten, that are listening right
now, that have these ideas, butthey're they're counter culture
, they're counterintuitive,they're counter everything and
therefore, like you said, withthe status quo, everybody there
seems to be a magnetic pull backto status quo.
Yeah, there is Fight against it.
Pull back to status quo.
Yeah, there is Fight against it.
Fight against it, man, go withyour outlandish idea.
It's the only ones that make amark.
(10:44):
Would that be?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
right?
Yeah, absolutely.
You have to fight against thatcurrent which is always going to
pull you towards the middle.
That's how you do somethinggreat.
Nothing great happens withouttaking a chance.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I love that.
I love that.
Now, that being said, there'sbeen some times where you did
that and the madness backfired.
It didn't work.
How did you bounce back?
How did you pivot?
Okay, you, you came to thispoint.
Crap, that didn't work.
How did?
Because everybody listening hadthat point I have, we all have,
we still do.
How do you pull back from that?
Speaker 3 (11:12):
well.
So first of all, I mean youknow it's okay to be, you know,
not thrilled for a day or two,but that happens.
But.
And second of all, you got torealize you know if you're like
an american baseball, if you bat300, you're, you're like one of
the best ever.
So I mean, if you miss sevenout of ten, you're you're doing
amazing.
So no one bats a thousand.
But what I tend to do is, whenthings get like that, your, your
(11:34):
, your instinct, yourinclination is to.
Well, I'll just, I'll repackageit now and I'll try a smaller
version.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
When you're in trouble likethat, go bigger.
I was having trouble onceselling an animated movie.
I just couldn't sell thisanimated movie and we had just
recently been in the animationbusiness.
I've been in the live actionbusiness, my whole life in
animation.
We got into a bit further onand then I thought you know, if
(11:55):
I can't sell one, maybe I couldsell 12.
And I did, and and I came upwith a package of a host.
It's got a slate.
So not just by wanting to makea movie, but finance the whole
slate.
And I did, it worked.
So when in doubt and when youthink, oh my God, they're
beating me up.
They're beating me up, gobigger Attack when they tell you
to retreat.
That's what you do.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I absolutely love it and I've got to ask you.
I've been wanting to ask youthis for quite some time.
One of the most brilliantthings in the entire Lego movie
world to me is when they'refiring weapons and they go pew
pew, pew, pew.
It kills me, it slays me everytime.
That's a crazy idea.
(12:37):
That's insane.
It'll never work.
Who came up with that?
Whose brilliant idea was that I?
Speaker 3 (12:42):
don't remember.
You know, the Lego people whenwe got to them were, you know,
Lego wasn't doing as good as itis now and so they were afraid
of a big movie and it doesn'twork, it would hurt them.
So we came up with the idea ofdoing a smaller movie through
Universal and putting it on DVDand if that worked, great.
And if it didn't, no one wouldnotice.
And that's what we did.
It was called Lego, theAdventures of Clutch Powers.
It was the first everfeature-length Lego movie.
(13:03):
But Lego knew the essence ofLego.
They really knew their brand.
I mean, they had the wholemotto we build on each other, so
they physically build andthere's a theme.
They really knew their stuffincredibly well.
I mean, some brands don't evenexist.
As I said, mortal kombat didn'teven exist as a brand before we
.
We got to it but and some otherthings didn't.
But the lego people really knowwhat they're talking about
(13:25):
right on, right on, now andagain brilliant movies.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I love them.
I absolutely love them.
They, they crack me up everytime.
You've worked with a lot ofinteresting people james cameron
, arnold schwarzenegger, etc.
Etc.
Etc.
What are some times where theybroke the rules in a very good
way.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
It maybe this wasn't supposed to happen that way, but
they did it and it worked outfantastic it was a time in
terminator two when a helicopterwas supposed to fly through a,
a traffic tunnel, and we weregoing to do that shot digitally
and and, um, we were shootingoutside in long beach in
(14:04):
southern california there's anoil refinery and a huge one, and
and the tunnel we were shootingat was there.
But you know it was ahelicopter and and the chasing
was there, but the helicopterpart was going to be done
digitally and we were a littlebehind schedule and the
helicopter pilot I forget hisname was a great guy.
He'd been a former formerVietnam combat pilot and he said
why aren't I flying that?
I said well, you only have liketwo feet of clearance on each
(14:25):
side.
He goes I can do that all daylong with my eyes closed while
eating a sandwich.
He goes I'm a Vietnamhelicopter pilot.
I've been zipping betweenpeople trying to kill me all day
.
This is nothing.
And we were all sitting aroundgoing really nothing and we were
all sitting around going reallynothing, and he goes no problem
and, and you know, the studiowasn't there and, technically
(14:46):
speaking, we weren't supposed todo that insurance wise, because
you just think you want to in.
You don't want the guy to gethurt, first and foremost, but
second of all you don't want anexplosion outside of an oil
factory anyway we did it.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
There's a lot of reasons that's a really bad idea
, Larry.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
But the guy was so great about that I mean, the
studio hit the roof the next day, but on the other hand they
were thrilled that we got backon schedule.
And you don't do itirresponsibly.
You get to the point where theexpert is telling you I can do
this, no problem, and he justdid.
And sometimes these decisionsthis is my point get made very,
(15:22):
very, very, very quickly.
Sometimes you don't have thetime to analyze it, you can't go
back and forth.
Everything can't be a committee.
Sometimes you just got to takea shot and that's what we did.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Well, that's leadership, isn't it?
That's part of leadership rightthere, Making the hard calls
and going with them.
Making hard calls and goingwith them.
Making hard calls yeah, yeah,absolutely.
Now, you gave a lot of greatstories in your book, of course.
What's some of your favoritestories about?
Again, people just doing alittle bit of crazy and it
worked out for them.
There was a great one at adinner.
There's a bunch of them.
Go for it.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Well, so I have three things.
The first thing is you have tocreate your idea and know the
essence of your brand um thesecond thing and hold it on
tight.
The second thing is I I believeyou have to ask anyone anywhere
in the world, anything you needto advance your goal, anything.
And, and mostly like when Ispeak, I say to an audience if
you could call anyone who'salive right now and ask them a
(16:17):
relevant question, who would youcall and what would you ask?
And most people go it's just Idon't know, I never thought
about it.
And the reason people don'tknow is because we're trained.
We're not trained to think wecan.
I had an incredible professor atcollege named rose goldson who,
since I, was a freshman incollege.
So you can call anybody.
So I've been doing this evenbefore I was a movie producer
and so there's a millionexamples of it.
But we didn't animate a movieduring the pandemic for
(16:38):
universal called um bobbleheads.
You know big bobbling heads,and we wanted share to play
bobblehead, share and share.
Never done animated movie before.
So people say, oh, there's noway and she's not gonna eat.
We want her likeness.
But we call, I called and youknow, ask, ask, ask.
And she did it and she wasgreat in it.
And when the movie came out,people magazine interviewed her
and they said, share, you'venever done an animated movie
(16:59):
before, why did you say yes tothis one?
And she said I never did ananimated movie before because no
one ever asked me before that'ssomething I did.
So you got to think if share,you know clearly one of the most
famous, talented women on earthis sitting there, no one ever
asked her.
Who in your world are you notcalling?
Because you think, oh,everyone's got to call them, but
maybe they're asking.
Call, ask, take a shot.
(17:22):
Look, I still get people whosay no to me every day.
Well, while my, my arrogant,megalomaniac ego is like, well,
who'd say no to me?
But it happens constantly.
It doesn't go away, and and and.
But then you, it's not fun, butyou think well, so what?
So?
They said no, so the next guy,talk more about that, if you
know.
So what so?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
what I'm sorry, and I'm getting a little bit of a
delay, so keep going oh so, soanyway.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
So you have to just ask anybody anything to advance
your goal and if, share what wasnever asked to do something,
who in your life isn't, and Iwould suggest you figure out
your person.
But maybe you're a littlescared to call your share.
So I you know, call Uncle Philand ask him why he never comes
to Thanksgiving.
I mean, there's a million waysyou can start that.
But get in the habit of justcalling people and going to the
(18:11):
top and calling as high and asreaching as you can and ask yeah
, and how do you because, again,you're a human being and you've
got feelings too when you keepgetting those no's?
that even you get.
How do you keep moving forward?
Because I 100%.
Back to the dirty dancingexample.
I 100% believe in my ideas.
(18:31):
That's the deal.
I only sell what I would buyand I 100% believe.
And if someone says no to me,my first instinct as arrogant as
this sounds is oh, they'recrazy, they're wrong, what's the
matter with them?
There you go.
I prefer they say yes, but I?
I think it's insane.
This is the best idea in theworld.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I've always convinced my ideas are the best, and you
know they're not always, but I'mconvinced they are well, and
that that's one of the things Iteach in public speaking is
people get so wrapped up inthemselves.
Oh, I'm gonna screw up, I'mgonna.
I'm going to say it's not aboutyou, it's about your idea, it's
about getting that across topeople and that's what you're
saying is the same exact concepthere.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Right, and it's about the audience.
I mean, you really you work, weall work for the audience.
It's like what does theaudience want?
I mean, when people say, well,I don't like this, and
especially if you're in abusiness like mine, you only
care what the audience wants.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
We're just, I'm just the custodian for the audience.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And along with that, peoplemake these excuses why they
can't call those people.
They can't do whatever it is.
What's one excuse you had letgo of early on, if you had them
at all?
I mean, you started off pretty,pretty bold, pretty quick, but
did you have anything that youhad to get over early on
yourself?
In terms of calling people no,in terms of anything, anything I
(19:49):
have to get over.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Well, you're, I'm always trying to get better, I'm
always trying to learn.
I'm still trying to learn.
So I'm I always seek out people, not just to ask will you do
this in my movies?
I mean, I'm all, I'm constantlytrying to read and learn and
and I I call some people who, um, you know who, who are not, uh,
what you might think, and Ithink you have to be very open
(20:11):
that you might learn somethingfrom some of the people you're
calling which is not what youintended.
So in mortal kombat, I uh, whenare we doing the first one to
combat?
I read a book by a Zen Buddhistmonk named Thich Nhat Hanh,
who's a very passed awayrecently but is a very
well-known Zen Buddhist monk,credited with bringing
mindfulness to the West, and Ilove the book and I thought so,
(20:33):
what did I want to do with thispeaceful Zen Buddhist monk?
I thought, hey, maybe he couldbe inspiration for my ultra
action-packed Mortal Kombatfranchise.
So I called him up to go seehim as inspiration for Mortal
Kombat, for my ultraaction-packed Mortal Kombat
franchise.
So I called him up to go seehim as inspiration for Mortal
Kombat.
But, being open to you know, asI said, you might learn
something.
After two hours I felt like I'dbeen on vacation for a week and
I said what's your secret?
(20:53):
And he said no secret practice.
And I said I could learn how tofeel this way.
You know, I'm a kind of a highenergy guy and we became friends
and so I hung out with him allover the place.
I got to know some of the othermonks.
I started practicingmindfulness.
I had him to my house to give atalk to other studio heads.
(21:13):
We became really close and thenhe asked me to do a documentary
on mindfulness, which I did,called Mindfulness, be Happy Now
, which is on Amazon and I.
It was an amazing thing that Icalled tic-nac-haw, but not for
the reason I thought.
So I think what you have to beopen to is sometimes the path
takes you a little bitdifferently than you want to go,
(21:34):
than you intended to go, butthat might be great yeah, I love
it.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I love it absolutely and and go with it.
I mean, I'm in the middle of alot of that right now.
My paths are going 12 differentdirections.
I never expected this being oneof them, quite frankly.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, that's a great opportunity and you're looking
at it the right way.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
If you look at it as an opportunity, oh gosh, yes,
and they keep opening andopening If you let them, if
you're open to them and Be boldwith them.
So what are some more stories?
That you've again a lot ofgreat stories in your book, one
of the many reasons I love itand am reading it again.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
So here's another one .
So you know I call it CAPCreate, ask, play, create your
great idea, believe in theessence, never let it go, Ask we
just talked about.
And the third one is play.
Play and fun, I believe, arewildly underrated in today's
world.
Especially fun, I mean we, Imean my whole mission in my
movies now is to bring fun back.
We just want to have more fun.
But also, if you manage to liveyour life and your work life in
(22:31):
a bit of a state of play, likeyou know, you and I just talked
about dogs before we started.
Yeah, look at, the dog is justplaying all day long, having a
great time, you are, you aremore open, you are more creative
and you're more interesting.
So when one of the first ummovies I was ever right when I
started my job, the company hadordered a movie, the first movie
prior to my getting there, andit was what you might call a low
(22:54):
budget game of thrones typemovie in those days and and the
guy who ran the company was agreat guy he said to me and my
development staff okay, I wanteverything in the book, throwing
it I want.
I want ghosts, I want violence,I want sex, I want warfare, I
want you know, and on and on andon.
And we were like laughing, likehe was trying to say just
whatever it is that stuff sells,and, and, and someone in the
(23:15):
group said and, and, snakes andwizards.
And everyone said yes, snakesand wizards.
And it became our, ourtouchstone.
You know, let's, let's havesnakes and wizards.
And the I was the studio headand the executive producer, but
the producer was already on theground in italy.
We were going to make it andwhen we'd have conference calls
before I went over there, wewould end the calls by saying I
remember snakes and wizards,thanks.
So I get there.
(23:36):
I think it's going well.
It's my first film set.
And then the crew says to me inItaly, we're in Rome.
They said, listen, on Thursdaywe have a surprise for you.
And they were very excited andI said, oh, and the more it got
to a Thursday where you knowWednesday they're really excited
.
Make sure you're here at thistime.
So Thursday comes and they takeme outside and they're all
standing behind me and you seein the hills of Rome a little
(23:57):
speck of dust and nothing.
And it's getting bigger and yourealize it's a truck and now
they're in a semicircle behindme and there's a band playing.
I don't know where.
They got a band closer andthey're all so proud and the
truck backs up and you can seeit's a circus truck and and it
stops and the doors pour openand out run all these men and
women dressed as wizards, withsnakes like burmese type pythons
(24:19):
and boa constrictors aroundtheir necks, and they all shared
.
We got you the snakes andwizards, except it was a joke,
we were just kidding.
We forgot to tell them we werekidding.
There's no snakes and wizardsin the script, so not in a state
of play as a first movie.
I would have freaked out, Iwould have yelled at them what
are you doing?
You don't have the money forthis.
You're going to be behind now.
This isn't the budget.
(24:39):
Blah, blah, blah.
In a state of play which youkind of are in a film studio
where everyone is drinking winefor lunch, which is unheard of
here, and they were being sonice to me and I remember my
boss saying I want everythingyou can think of.
I said what put him in themovie?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I love it.
How did you put him in?
How do you fit him in the movie?
Speaker 3 (24:58):
we just they were party scenes or they were wild
scenes.
We just threw in snakes andwizards and you know what?
The movie really is terrible,but it actually made a fortune
and the snakes and wizards lookgreat.
So in a state of play you'llhandle a situation much better
than you want.
(25:18):
And that doesn't mean don'ttake it seriously.
I think if you ask Tom Bradywhen he was playing football if
he took it seriously but you areplaying a game and if you can
think that way, that's a toughone.
If you can think that way, doit.
Look at your staff today,wherever you're doing, say you
know what?
How come we've never done this?
How come we've never gonebowling?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
How come we've never whatever.
Take Friday off early and gohave ice cream?
I mean, whenever it is, it doeswork.
I love it, and I think one ofthe best examples is Jamie Lee
Curtis the dance in True Lies.
She brought the crazy.
Yes, tell us about how thathappened.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Well, we're not sure that that's how this happened.
It's a theory.
So I had done a movie withJamie called Blue Steel before,
prior to True, true lies, and wewere, we were in con film
festival and we were looking fora female lead for true lies.
We're this big event, thisblack tie event, at the hotel
decaf, this beautiful hotel, andum and and and uh, and
(26:17):
something comes whizzing by myface and I go what the hell is
that?
And a second later somethingelse comes and then I see it's a
pea and I turn around and likewe're like black tie dinner for
some charity.
It is like you know, man.
And then slowly more foodhappens and I look back and
jamie is, he's.
They really, it's just laughing.
Now I have no proof that thatjamie heard we were casting,
(26:39):
knew, knew us and was justtrying to, in a funny way, say,
hey, I'm fun, let's talk.
But that's what happened.
Now maybe she did it, maybe shedidn't, maybe jim would have
cast her anyway even if shedidn't do that, but I hope she
did.
I never really asked her, but Ihope she did, because what fun,
playful way, you know, ratherthan and, of course, as you said
(26:59):
, the role in the movie.
I mean, one of the interestingthings about that movie is that
movie has so many effects and somuch action and the first time
a Harrier jet was ever used in amovie and the thing that people
always say to me about it theirfavorite scene is when Jamie
tries to be sexy in front ofArnold and can't quite do it and
it's kind of a goofball.
So the play trumped everything.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I would not, but the play was incredibly popular and
successful in that movieAbsolutely, and I would argue
that it is indeed one of themost memorable scenes in that
entire movie and, if everybody'splayful, that's one of the most
memorable scenes that peoplewill have from your life too
that they enjoyed being aroundyou, that you enjoyed life, that
good things are happening.
And this is some coaching forthe people listening in.
Just keep that in mind, man,when you start getting too
(27:45):
wrapped up in all the bad thingsgoing on, all the challenges,
the things you're going through,play, have fun.
People will remember that, wow,you came through that with that
attitude, with flying colors,and helped lift people up
instead of tearing them down.
Does that make sense, larry?
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah, you know what else too.
It's very interesting if youknow.
I believe, that people arewatching a movie and maybe the
plot isn't, doesn't make perfectsense or maybe something's
wrong, but if they're having fun, they will forgive you for
anything.
People will forgive us anything.
We're having fun and I reallythink no kidding that we've
gotten too far away from fun.
Our society, and I think it'scoming back and we certainly are
trying.
We've got some crazy moviesplanned coming up, but I think
(28:23):
that's right.
You have to if you can play andget that into your life.
And again, look at a dog.
He's just playing all day long.
He's doing everything's a blast.
It's a great way to live.
We can learn a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I love it.
So we're getting near the endof our time.
What?
What are some things that youknow and this is the Comeback
Chronicles you know.
So people are going throughchallenges, coming back.
What are some pieces of adviceyou'd give for people to get
through this and excel, whateverthat means to them?
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Well, you know, I wrote A Touch of the Madness
because I came to realize thatI'd never seen it so bad in
terms of people being scared togo for it.
I mean, people are always alittle trepidatious, but I'd
never seen it so bad in terms ofpeople being scared to go for
it.
I mean, people are always alittle trepidatious, but I've
never seen it so bad.
And I was sort of whining to mybrother about it during the
pandemic and he said we'll writea book.
So I did.
So I hope the book helps and Ispeak about this and I think the
(29:14):
best thing to do is, you know,I mean I hope if you read the
book it helps or listen to it.
But what you have to do is justkeep going.
You just have to keep going andyou have to try and do the
things we said.
You know, ask people, you'd besurprised.
Everyone won't say yes, butyou'd be surprised.
Who does, you know, believe inyour idea?
Play, and if you do all thosethings, it will work.
(29:35):
You know, a psychiatrist friendof mine who runs a psychiatric
hospital said he sometimes saysto to people what are the three
things you do that make youhappy?
And people say, oh well, I loveriding my bike and playing my
dog eating ice cream, this isgreat when you're not happy.
Then someone went wrong.
Do you do more of those thingsor less of those things?
And they said, oh less.
And they said, well, shouldn'tyou do more of those things when
(29:58):
you're not happy?
Because you know they make youhappier?
And people think for a minute.
But intuitively we don't, andthat's what you should do Double
down on what makes you happy.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
That is insane advice , fantastic advice.
That is the culmination of thispodcast, without question,
because if people will just dothat alone, that'll be amazingly
helpful for them.
So I'll wrap this up foreverybody listening Play.
Do the things that make youhappy when you don't feel like
doing them the most, becausethat's when they'll mean the
(30:33):
most to you.
Reach out boldly and ask thepeople.
Talk to the people you don'tthink you can reach because they
might be waiting to be reached,kind of like the prettiest girl
at the prom you can reachbecause they might be waiting to
be reached.
Kind of like the prettiest girlat the prom.
Yep.
And whatever you do, put alittle crazy back in your life
and everything you do and havefun and you might have your own.
You will have your own ComebackChronicle.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
So that's it for today's episode of the Comeback
Chronicles.
Head on over to Apple Podcastsor wherever you listen, and
subscribe to the show.
If you're ready to get overyour fears, self-doubts and past
failures and break through yourcomfort zone to reach the
pinnacle of success in everyarea of your life, head over to
terrielfawesomecom to pick upyour free gifts and so much more
(31:20):
.
We'll see you next week on theComeback Chronicles podcast.
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