January 20, 2020 • 26 mins
This is a Music Video Podcast - or should I say a Podcast about Music Video. From 1995 until 2008 I was a Music Video Commissioner. I worked at A&M Records and then transitioned to Interscope/Geffen/A&M Records in 2000 when A&M was bought by Universal Music Group. I commissioned over 500+ Music Videos during my tenure. This Podcast is an inside look into these videos and the fascinating world of making them - from start to finish. I have worked with artists that include: Eminem, 50 Cent, Dr. Dre, Marilyn Manson, Soundgarden, Sting, Pink Floyd, Mariah Carey, Feist, Vanessa Carlton, The Game, Busta Rhymes, Soulja Boy, Sheryl Crow, Bryan Adams, Feist, Keane, t.A.T.u., Enrique Iglesias, Christina Aguilera, Pink, Mya, Lil’ Kim, Missy Elliot, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Counting Crows, Ice Cube and Sarah Silverman to name but a few.
You can watch the video here
But for now please enjoy The Commissioner!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to the commissioner.
My name is Randy Lawson.
This show is focused on musicvideos at I commissioned over my
12 plus years as a music videocommissioner at major labels,
let's get into episode one,which is M and M without me
Eminem without me was the firstsingle from the M andm show,
(00:32):
which was M and M's fourthrelease in total.
I believe he had infinite on hisown label or whatever,
independent label, then the slimshady EP, the Marsha Mathers LP.
And then without me was thefirst single from the M and M
show, which, uh, was released inmay of 2002.
(00:53):
I had worked peripherally onStan as when I had started at
the label.
There was a number of otherpeople that worked on it.
So it was kind of a mishmosh.
I like to say that was my firstone I commissioned because
ultimately I was responsiblebudgetarily, but there was a lot
of work that had a goat goneinto it.
And I can't, as a commissionertake, take credit for that.
I did do purple pills and fightmusic with D 12, which is where
(01:15):
I started my relationship withthe whole group Marshall and the
D 12 guys and Paul Rosenberg andmark LaBelle and everybody
within.
So for this record, it was, Iknew I was gonna be, you know,
have the ability to really dowhat I do.
And, um, I remember in thebeginning, the, um, we had a,
(01:37):
they called us upstairs at thethird floor conference room at
Interscope, and it was mostlydepartment heads, um, music,
video, radio promotion, a and Rmarketing, publicity, um,
international, um, I don't, youknow, there was, and it was, it
was amazing, like very exciting.
(01:58):
So Paul Rosenberg and Jimmy walkin the room, they tell everyone
that they have the new M and Mrecord and they're gonna play us
some music.
So they played us.
Um, as I remember, they playedcleaning up my closet, sing for
the moment business without meand Superman.
And, um, you know, they, theyask her opinion and everything.
(02:20):
I thought the first singleshould have been business, cuz
it just felt like Dre was on it.
And you know, it just, you know,felt like the fir to me felt
like the coolest song in theworld.
I, I don't think it ever gotreleased as a single, but it's
still a great song.
Um, but I'm not a single pickerand I never claim to be a single
picker.
I could make videos.
So ultimately I was told that wewere going with, um, without me.
(02:44):
So I got the song listened to ita bunch of times to times and
um, could never get business setme on the Batman and Robin
thing, you know, like wherehe's, you know, Marshall says
something to Dre about, youknow, holy whack rappers be, you
know?
And so that was in my mind, but,but the, without me song also
references the Batman and Robinthing.
(03:06):
So, um, I immediately in my mindobviously wanted to have Dre and
M as Batman and Robin.
That was my thought, you know,and, um, I knew Joseph com was
the right person.
I, you know, I talked to Paul,he had done purple pills and
done a great job.
Um, and there was not, there wasno resistance.
(03:26):
Everyone thought that was a goodidea.
And we just kind of set out,trying to do to come up with the
best concept for the video.
Um, obviously a lot of the videoitself, the lyrics of the song
kind of dictate what's in there.
The Dick Chaney thing aren'tnecessarily, um, you know, like
we went, that was a, at the timea big deal.
(03:48):
It was after nine 11, the, theIraq war was something that was
looming.
So we, you know, this is a fun,funny video, but we were able to
at least do some satiricalthings where we did use Dick
Chaney in the video, we did useOsama bin Laden, but with some
comic relief.
So we weren't making a politicalstatement, but just kind of
(04:09):
acknowledging that we, that theartist was aware of that stuff.
Um, and, uh, so Joseph Conn andI came up with a bunch of ideas
I really want because of Batmanand Robin, I grew up, you know,
uh, watching Batman and Robinand, uh, the early version, the
Adam West Burt ward version.
So I, you know, a hundredpercent knew that I wanted to
(04:32):
have them climbing up the wall,um, which ultimately in the
video you'll notice it's justMarshall climbing up the wall
because Dre doesn't do thatstuff.
You know, like, not that hewouldn't climb up the wall, just
like he was like, I'm Dre, likeI would take the stair, you
know, there was even part of thejoke.
Like I wouldn't climb, oh, I'dtake the stairs.
You know?
So I was like, yeah, you'reright.
And, but Marshall will take itand we'll make it a joke.
You know?
(04:53):
Um, so which we did is if youwatch the video, which I thought
was kind of fun, um, this was alittle different time than, than
today's world.
A video was a big deal foreverybody, but not everyone
could see the videos, thevideos, if you didn't get on
MTV, chances are, you probablydidn't have a hit record.
There were obviously exceptionsto every rule, but for the most
(05:14):
part, you pretty much had to beon MTV to make, get that big
crossover because people waitedbelieve it or not, people waited
to watch videos.
Um, that's not the way it is intoday's world.
You can just go on YouTube orclick anywhere and watch a video
whenever you want, listen towhatever song you want.
That wasn't the world.
In 2002, you could downloadmusic that was easy to do, but
(05:37):
you couldn't really downloadvideos.
There wasn't that there wasstill a much slower internet.
And there wasn't a lot ofposting of videos per se.
Um, YouTube changed that.
And then it became, you know,the ability to do that.
And it ultimately killed MTV forwhat they did in music videos.
They went on to do realitytelevision and you know, more
(05:58):
power to them, but the videoitself was a big deal.
So, um, I knew, but there wassome, and like I said, some
artists, you know, want to, were, you know, you wanted to get
their video on MTV.
MTV wanted to play an M and Mvideo because he was a big
artist.
So I knew that we were gonnahave a video that was in heavy
(06:18):
rotation, right out of the bat.
The song was a great song.
He mentions MTV in the song.
So it just felt like, yeah, thisis gonna go on.
So I really wanted to make avideo that was fun to watch, but
that you had to watch more thanonce AF like when you saw it the
first time, you're like, thatwas great.
There's so much, I didn't evensee everything.
(06:38):
So, and we did achieve that withthe graphics and the storylines.
We used a, you know, tried tomake it like a, a graphic novel,
or a comic book with the storyitself.
And even the graphics that weuse.
And we had the kind of text upin the top or tells you about
the scene.
You're about to see andeverything.
Um, one of my favorite momentsin the early on, after we had
(06:59):
the video, we had a goodconference call with, with M and
with, um, Paul and went throughthe whole thing and he was down,
he, you know, wanted to havecertain, he wanted to wear
certain things in a performance,no problem.
He wanted to make sure he wantedto have his brother in it to
play him.
And he wanted to play his mom onthe kind of the Sally Jesse
Raphael spoof show.
No problem.
You know, everything he wantedwas not a problem.
(07:19):
Cause all his ideas are mostlygood ideas.
He wanted to be in bed with twohot chicks.
Ultimately we got Jenna Jamesonand this girl Tiara, those were
kind of last minute things withjust calling around and seeing
he was available.
Um, he, you know, totally wantedto be Robin, but he wanted to
call himself rat boy, which werelike, perfect.
Um, so, you know, and like Isaid, M has great ideas.
(07:41):
He, you know, he was obviouslydissing people.
Um, so, and we'll get into that,but it was just very funny, like
the way he wanted to do it.
And well, ultimately he did, youknow, does, he will do what he
wants and you do want them justas a commissioner, you wanna
make sure it's done with goodtaste.
And, and he always does that.
Um, but I do remember after wehad, you know, M and Paul and
(08:03):
everyone sign off on it, we hadto go to Dre, cuz it was
aftermath actually, who is theCobel and he, you know, had to
sign off on it.
So Joseph and I went to recordone, which is a studio, uh, in
Sherman Oaks, on VenturaBoulevard who parked in the
back, got through security.
And we had to show him the, thestoryboards for the video, you
(08:25):
know, we're going through thisand we're gonna do this and
we're gonna do that.
And then you and Dre and then,you know, and Dre was like, he
thought everything was cool.
He was like, what's this Batmanand Robin.
Like I'm not gonna dress up likeBatman.
That's ridiculous.
And I was like, no, no, no, no,no, no.
You're Dr.
Dre.
Like, you don't have to dress uplike Batman.
He's like, well, what am I gonnawear?
I was like, I don't know, like ablack leather jacket and a black
(08:47):
shirt with glasses and jeans,you know, like you're Dre like
you totally.
And he looked at me like, yeah,that's cool.
Okay.
I get it.
I'm like, yeah, you're Dr.
Dre.
He's rat, boy you'll come acrossas Batman and Robin.
But obviously, and this is evenbefore the dark night and all
that stuff, I'm like, you'recooler than Batman.
And he was like, yeah, shut up,Randy.
you.
You know, but I was honestlyfeeling like it would be stupid
(09:09):
if he dressed up like Batman,cuz that's not who he is.
He's Dr.
Dre.
And he holds this coveted spotin the music business as Dr.
Dre.
And it was always gonna be Dr.
Dre and rat boy, you know?
Um, so that was once we gotthrough that, it was all good.
And um, we were good to go.
(09:48):
So the video itself, um, we shotit in April, 2002.
The video visually follows thelyrics of the song, which mocks
a number of Em's critics,including um, then vice
president, Dick Chaney, um, andhis heart problems and his wife
(10:12):
Lynn Janney, um, the FCC crierPatrick event, Inc limp biscuit
Moby, um, it also lampoonscomparisons of him to Elvis
Presley as a white mansuccessfully, um, succeeding
commercially in like apredominantly black art form,
um, and a line also with Texasmom.
(10:33):
So we, and obviously you, as youwatch the video, you can see all
of that in the video played out,um, pretty true to form, I would
say, um, the mobi thing, thefunny thing about the mobi thing
was he used to, you know, hewould say nobody listens to
techno and I would always saylike I do.
And he was like, you're nobodyRandy.
(10:53):
And I was like, oh, so that'sthat line's about me.
But it was just funny becauseeven in 2002, I loved I, if you
know anything about me, youknow, how much I loved dance
music in particular depos intechno.
Um, but I, um, uh, loved it backthen.
And it was just a funny, youknow, like, but it was before
(11:15):
the EDM movement had exploded in2008 to 2000 whatever before
square lakes, before Diplo,before TTO and Hardwell, even
though TTO was out, he was atrans artist and he was kind of
underground.
Um, he was bigger obviously inEurope than he was in America,
but either way it was funny tojust have a old thing.
But, um, he, uh, he, it was justa, to me, it was like always a
(11:40):
funny line and you know, likethe way he portrayed it with
like mobi sitting in a suit,doing yoga with a keyboard,
like, yeah, that's not reallyhow they do dance.
He's like, but okay, that'sfine.
You know, like you guys, you doyou, um, the one, the, the main
performance per of the video wasMarshall on a green screen, in a
(12:05):
gray tracksuit.
Um, and he did a he's very part,you know, like most good
artists, they do a take and thenwanna look at it back.
So he, you know, we did a numberof takes with him on the green
screen till he was happy withhis performance.
And if you'll notice he has ahat on, right.
Like, uh, he has a do rag underthe hat and then a wool hat over
(12:27):
it.
Um, but not in everythingbecause after that was over, I
just kept saying, I would say tohim near the end, like, well,
let's do one without the hat.
And he's like, why?
And I said, because you're M andM and you have the blonde hair
and yeah.
But you can see me in the videowith the blonde hair.
I'm like, I know, but this isyour main performance take.
(12:49):
Let's do one.
I used to call it the SHTA let'sdo one without the SHTA in your
head.
And he's like, he didn't knowwhat that meant was like, you
know, what are you talkingabout?
I'm like the hat take the hatoff.
So he wouldn't take it off.
No, no, no, no, no.
He was finally like, I'm good.
Like he did, you know, he's a, aconsummate professional.
So he did, I wanna say 20 takes,it was probably 40, but we spent
(13:13):
a long time getting aperformance that he was
comfortable with, you know,with, in the gray suit, in the
gray tracksuit with the, youknow, the, um, hat on.
And then I was like, why don'twe just do two?
And he's like, I don't, I'm notgonna use it.
I'm like, yeah, you don't haveto use it.
But if we don't shoot it, wecould never use it cuz it's not
(13:34):
here.
And he's like, okay, I get it.
We'll do a couple fine.
I'll do do them without the, andhe would always mess up the
word, you know, whatever,whatever that thing you don't
wanna, man.
I'm like, yeah, just take offyour hat.
I keep everything the same.
Let's do it.
So I think we did one or twotakes without the hat.
And if you go through the video,you'll notice it's about 70% of
(13:56):
the performance as him, withoutthat.
Cuz once the hat came off, hewas just so relaxed and he just
didn't kind of didn't care.
Um, he was almost doing his,like a, whatever.
I'm just do, I'm doing this forthe label guy, you know, but
ultimately he's such aconsummate professional that
he's still great and that'swhere he's at his best.
And that's what I it's just me.
I'm disgusting.
(14:16):
You know, he was pointing at thecamera and doing all these fun,
really funny, fun moments andmoments and very relaxed.
So we ended up using a lot ofthat performance, which just
like I said, that's what thispurpose of this show is to kinda
give you the insight into that.
But all of them are really goodand he's obviously a consummate
professional and um, he, youknow, did a great job throughout
(14:38):
the whole thing, but we justfunny, we ended up using it
without Des schmatta, Sanschmatta, uh, in the most of the
video.
Um, the other thing, the realworld, which now doesn't seem
relevant at all was a very bigshow at the time and getting P
and those guys on, uh, girls onthe show and having MB a
character in the show, which wason MTV, um, which was kind of
(15:01):
the original reality show herein America was kind of a big
deal.
It doesn't really, um, play upthe, uh, play as well over time
when I watched it, I was like,oh yeah, the real world.
That's right.
Yeah.
You know, now it's like 16 andpregnant and uh, teen, mom and
Jersey shore.
And when, you know, the Hillsand Laguna beach, all the shows
(15:22):
at MTV's known for, but thisbefore that they were known for
the real world and it was a verybig deal.
Um, the climbing up the wall bit, um, I, I love that.
Um, we really tried to get acelebrity to open the thing was
on the Batman show, theoriginal, they would always have
like Sammy Davis Jr.
Or Dean Martin or eel birdHumper dink or somebody, you
(15:45):
know, Carol Burnett, somebodyfamous open the window and be
like, oh, it's the Capecrusaders and have a
conversation with them.
Um, we couldn't find acelebrity.
So we ended up using JoeProvenzano, who was the first AC
for Chris probes, who was the DPon the shoot, Joe pro in his own
right.
Is a DP now.
But back in the day he was sohe's actually makes a second.
(16:06):
That's his second appearance inthe video.
He's the first one on the guess,who's back the first time you
see it, he's got the suit andtie.
And then it goes to like apriest and a rabbi and a they
and a Sumo wrestler and a cactusand a bunny and couple people
make, make double, doubleappearances.
The bunny kicks Moby at he's inthe beginning and then kicks
Moby.
(16:27):
Um, OB Trice is in the beginningand then also throws down mobi.
Um, I actually make a cameo inthe video right at the beginning
of the video and you see thehand okay.
In five or I walk across thecontrol room and then I'm the
person that like does the, theclipboard towards the guy who
(16:47):
rolls camera and right before itsays, oh, we try a real name, no
gimmicks.
Um, which was funny because whenJoseph conceptualized the song,
for some reason, he didn't havethat part in there, he thought
that was just like a part ofthe, the CD, not the actual
video.
So he didn't plan to do that.
He had planned to do five, fouror three, two ones and, and it,
(17:09):
the songs start.
And then when we got to set thatday, we, you know, they, back in
the day, this was all shot onfilm.
So you would have a soundpackage that was made with time
code burnt in.
So you would have smart slate soyou could easily sync it.
And that way it was easy to do.
And post, when you were in post,you had film that had to be
synced with video.
(17:31):
I mean, with audio and then youwould go to Teleny and do
everything to get it into adigital realm.
So it was a, a little morecomplicated than it is today, as
far as getting to the editingprocess.
Um, not, not terribly terriblycomplicated.
It was much easier than it hadbeen 10, 15 years prior to that,
or even 20 years prior to that.
But, um, I remember we were onset and Joseph was like, all
(17:53):
right, well, let's play the songback and we'll listen to it.
And the beginning part came onand he was like, wait, there's
the OB choice parts on the songfor the video.
I'm like, yeah, of course.
So he just had one of his secondunits guys, shoot, you know,
that's why he'll notice like OBon a black and white thing with
like just some flashlights onhis face which wasn't as
dis it was just like, he didn'tthink about, he's like fine,
we're gonna lock it into the Dreon the, on the two-way, which is
(18:16):
another thing.
But I think we got paid to usethose Motorola two ways, which
were back in the day kind of abig thing, but this was right as
it was crossing over intoblackberries.
Another thing that most of youprobably don't even know what
they are, but blackberries werekind of two ways in a smartphone
environment, which combined yourPD.
So you had all your contacts,you could send emails easier.
(18:39):
It was a phone at the time.
It just felt like, oh, this isthe greatest thing ever.
This is four years, five yearsbefore the iPhone.
So that was, you know, just adifferent time, but you used to
have a cell phone and a two-wayright.
And the two-way was how youwould text message people.
So that's why you see at thebeginning of that video, that
red Motorola, which I'm prettysure we got, we got some money
(19:01):
from them to use.
Um, and it's just funny to seethe technology, how it was at
the time.
It was a cool thing to have,like you had a phone and you,
you look a flip phone and a text, a two-way texting Mo device,
the Blackberry came out, whichkind of combined them together.
And then that became the coolthing.
And then the iPhone came out andit all, all kinda changed as to
(19:26):
everything, but for the better Imight add.
Um, so yeah, we, we shot for twoor three days.
I remember one of my favoritescenes of the whole shoot was
Dre and M in the car.
Um, and I thought, for sure,after just watching the
chemistry between the two ofthem on screen, I was convinced
(19:48):
that someone in Hollywood wouldbe like, okay, we need to make a
trading places or a buddy movieor some sort of movie with the
two of them.
Cuz at the time M had justfinished, um, filming eight mile
.
He hadn't, that movie hadn'tcome out, but after eight mile
came out, which was, you know,he played the I'll get into it
in other episodes when we wereshooting, cleaning up my closet,
(20:11):
he played me lose yourself,which was one of those moments
of just incredible like, wow,well that's your best song
you've ever done.
And this is a guy who's made aton of great songs.
So, but, um, I, you know, I justwas surprised that that, that
never translated because Ithought for sure that was a
buddy movie waiting to happen.
There was just such greatchemistry and you can really see
(20:31):
it in the car.
The two of them just, there wasno real like direction or
anything.
It was just like a roll tape andjust let them do their thing,
which is just so, so fun towatch.
Um, uh, we, as I rememberediting the video was really
simple.
I remember sending it toeverybody.
(20:55):
Um, we had a pretty short, youknow, like commenting, there was
a couple shots that Marshalldidn't like of this and did blah
, blah, you know, performancethat we put in a lot more.
He liked obviously once he sawit, he liked the performance
without the hat.
So we ended up putting in moreof that, which I never said, I
told you, so that is not the wayto go about it, but it was like,
(21:16):
great.
No, it looks, it looksfantastic.
I, I don't think I even remindedhim of the fact that we had an
issue with performance or, youknow, with hat or no hat.
Um, but, uh, I just remember thepost was a kind of a big deal
because there was a lot of greenscreen and that was a little bit
more challenging back in theday.
(21:37):
And then all the graphics had togo on.
So there was a lot ofhandholding that, um, we had to
do Joseph and I just to be like,it's, it's, here's a, like we
would have to do a piece andthen send it off.
Like, this is what it's gonnalook like.
This is what the piece is.
This is the, you know, and so,um, you know, the, the, the
(21:58):
final final video got finished.
There was a whole curve fle, asI remember with the record
getting leaked early.
And so I remember promotionbeing like, I need to send this
video in now.
And it's like, oh, it's notreally ready.
You know?
And so we did, we sent in a, Iwould say 85% 90 rough cut, but
(22:21):
that last 10% was, you know, allthe cool graphics and all the
things that went on there.
And, and there was just such atoold and thing about the record
getting out and they had torelease it early and it had to
come out on a Thursday insteadof a Friday.
So it was the first week wassplit total.
None of the stuff that I dealtwith, I just made music videos.
I don't do sales.
I don't do, I ultimately domarketing with visuals, but that
(22:44):
wasn't really my, you know,where my rubber met the road.
It was me making the bestpossible video for the most
important single at that time.
And I do remember when the videofinally got on MTV that first
time I was in my office and itwas like, and now the world
premiere of MTV of M and MSSwithout me, you know, and they
(23:05):
played the video and we allwatched it and it was just like,
oh my God, it looks so good.
And then Paul Rosenberg, themanager called me and he was
like, yo sausage.
He's like that, that video'sgreat.
I just wanted to call you andsay, congratulations, I get it.
I totally get it.
He was like, I watched it onceand I couldn't see everything.
I'm like, well, that's the wholepoint, you know, like it's gonna
(23:26):
get played a thousand times thisweek.
We kind of want people to haveto watch it again.
He's like, yep, I get it.
Thanks sausage.
But, you know, he's a veryamazing human being, but very
matter of fact about it, but hedid gimme props.
And honestly, if you've everworked with Paul Rosenberg, you
know, that those are you TA youcherish those moments because
he's a perfectionist in what hedoes.
(23:47):
And for him to acknowledgesomething like that was very,
very good moment for me.
(24:09):
So the video itself obviouslywas added heavy rotation in MTV.
Um, it was, uh, it went on to benominated for six MTV music,
video awards.
They were best mail video, whichit won best rap video, which it
won best direction, which it wonfor Joseph Conn and video of the
(24:31):
year, which was my second videoof the year.
Um, the first one being ladyMarlo with, uh, Christine
Aguilera, pink Maya, Lil Kim andMissy Elliot.
That's a separate episode thatyou'll have to tune in for, um,
the two that it didn't win wasbest editing and the viewer's
choice awards, which, you know,you can't win.
(24:53):
'em all, I guess I literally isa as you listen to that, that is
the me reading them off.
We didn't win them all.
I guess you could win them all.
But in this instance, we didn'twin them all.
We won four of six, which is no66%, which is pretty good, six
60.
It also went on to, um, win theGrammy for best music video in
the 2003 Grammy awards, which Irecently saw Joseph Kahn who
(25:16):
agreed to be on one of thesepodcasts sometime in the future.
Um, and he said, oh, he startedme in the business.
And I was like, ah, I didn'tstart you, but he's like, well,
you got me my first Grammy.
And I was like, I did do that.
You know?
So that, that was that who wonthe Grammy.
Um, it was obviously a bigmoment for M um, a big moment
for music video and a big momentfor me.
(25:54):
Well, that does it for episodeone of the commissioner.
My name is Randy Sasson.
I appreciate you listening.
They'll be coming out weekly onyour favorite formats for
podcasts.
So until next time I'll leaveyou with this.
Just remember smell is like awireless version of.
Hello, and welcome to the commissioner.
My name is Randy Lawson.
This show is focused on musicvideos at I commissioned over my
12 plus years as a music videocommissioner at major labels,
let's get into episode one,which is M and M without me
Eminem without me was the firstsingle from the M andm show,
(00:32):
which was M and M's fourthrelease in total.
I believe he had infinite on hisown label or whatever,
independent label, then the slimshady EP, the Marsha Mathers LP.
And then without me was thefirst single from the M and M
show, which, uh, was released inmay of 2002.
(00:53):
I had worked peripherally onStan as when I had started at
the label.
There was a number of otherpeople that worked on it.
So it was kind of a mishmosh.
I like to say that was my firstone I commissioned because
ultimately I was responsiblebudgetarily, but there was a lot
of work that had a goat goneinto it.
And I can't, as a commissionertake, take credit for that.
I did do purple pills and fightmusic with D 12, which is where
(01:15):
I started my relationship withthe whole group Marshall and the
D 12 guys and Paul Rosenberg andmark LaBelle and everybody
within.
So for this record, it was, Iknew I was gonna be, you know,
have the ability to really dowhat I do.
And, um, I remember in thebeginning, the, um, we had a,
(01:37):
they called us upstairs at thethird floor conference room at
Interscope, and it was mostlydepartment heads, um, music,
video, radio promotion, a and Rmarketing, publicity, um,
international, um, I don't, youknow, there was, and it was, it
was amazing, like very exciting.
(01:58):
So Paul Rosenberg and Jimmy walkin the room, they tell everyone
that they have the new M and Mrecord and they're gonna play us
some music.
So they played us.
Um, as I remember, they playedcleaning up my closet, sing for
the moment business without meand Superman.
And, um, you know, they, theyask her opinion and everything.
(02:20):
I thought the first singleshould have been business, cuz
it just felt like Dre was on it.
And you know, it just, you know,felt like the fir to me felt
like the coolest song in theworld.
I, I don't think it ever gotreleased as a single, but it's
still a great song.
Um, but I'm not a single pickerand I never claim to be a single
picker.
I could make videos.
So ultimately I was told that wewere going with, um, without me.
(02:44):
So I got the song listened to ita bunch of times to times and
um, could never get business setme on the Batman and Robin
thing, you know, like wherehe's, you know, Marshall says
something to Dre about, youknow, holy whack rappers be, you
know?
And so that was in my mind, but,but the, without me song also
references the Batman and Robinthing.
(03:06):
So, um, I immediately in my mindobviously wanted to have Dre and
M as Batman and Robin.
That was my thought, you know,and, um, I knew Joseph com was
the right person.
I, you know, I talked to Paul,he had done purple pills and
done a great job.
Um, and there was not, there wasno resistance.
(03:26):
Everyone thought that was a goodidea.
And we just kind of set out,trying to do to come up with the
best concept for the video.
Um, obviously a lot of the videoitself, the lyrics of the song
kind of dictate what's in there.
The Dick Chaney thing aren'tnecessarily, um, you know, like
we went, that was a, at the timea big deal.
(03:48):
It was after nine 11, the, theIraq war was something that was
looming.
So we, you know, this is a fun,funny video, but we were able to
at least do some satiricalthings where we did use Dick
Chaney in the video, we did useOsama bin Laden, but with some
comic relief.
So we weren't making a politicalstatement, but just kind of
(04:09):
acknowledging that we, that theartist was aware of that stuff.
Um, and, uh, so Joseph Conn andI came up with a bunch of ideas
I really want because of Batmanand Robin, I grew up, you know,
uh, watching Batman and Robinand, uh, the early version, the
Adam West Burt ward version.
So I, you know, a hundredpercent knew that I wanted to
(04:32):
have them climbing up the wall,um, which ultimately in the
video you'll notice it's justMarshall climbing up the wall
because Dre doesn't do thatstuff.
You know, like, not that hewouldn't climb up the wall, just
like he was like, I'm Dre, likeI would take the stair, you
know, there was even part of thejoke.
Like I wouldn't climb, oh, I'dtake the stairs.
You know?
So I was like, yeah, you'reright.
And, but Marshall will take itand we'll make it a joke.
You know?
(04:53):
Um, so which we did is if youwatch the video, which I thought
was kind of fun, um, this was alittle different time than, than
today's world.
A video was a big deal foreverybody, but not everyone
could see the videos, thevideos, if you didn't get on
MTV, chances are, you probablydidn't have a hit record.
There were obviously exceptionsto every rule, but for the most
(05:14):
part, you pretty much had to beon MTV to make, get that big
crossover because people waitedbelieve it or not, people waited
to watch videos.
Um, that's not the way it is intoday's world.
You can just go on YouTube orclick anywhere and watch a video
whenever you want, listen towhatever song you want.
That wasn't the world.
In 2002, you could downloadmusic that was easy to do, but
(05:37):
you couldn't really downloadvideos.
There wasn't that there wasstill a much slower internet.
And there wasn't a lot ofposting of videos per se.
Um, YouTube changed that.
And then it became, you know,the ability to do that.
And it ultimately killed MTV forwhat they did in music videos.
They went on to do realitytelevision and you know, more
(05:58):
power to them, but the videoitself was a big deal.
So, um, I knew, but there wassome, and like I said, some
artists, you know, want to, were, you know, you wanted to get
their video on MTV.
MTV wanted to play an M and Mvideo because he was a big
artist.
So I knew that we were gonnahave a video that was in heavy
(06:18):
rotation, right out of the bat.
The song was a great song.
He mentions MTV in the song.
So it just felt like, yeah, thisis gonna go on.
So I really wanted to make avideo that was fun to watch, but
that you had to watch more thanonce AF like when you saw it the
first time, you're like, thatwas great.
There's so much, I didn't evensee everything.
(06:38):
So, and we did achieve that withthe graphics and the storylines.
We used a, you know, tried tomake it like a, a graphic novel,
or a comic book with the storyitself.
And even the graphics that weuse.
And we had the kind of text upin the top or tells you about
the scene.
You're about to see andeverything.
Um, one of my favorite momentsin the early on, after we had
(06:59):
the video, we had a goodconference call with, with M and
with, um, Paul and went throughthe whole thing and he was down,
he, you know, wanted to havecertain, he wanted to wear
certain things in a performance,no problem.
He wanted to make sure he wantedto have his brother in it to
play him.
And he wanted to play his mom onthe kind of the Sally Jesse
Raphael spoof show.
No problem.
You know, everything he wantedwas not a problem.
(07:19):
Cause all his ideas are mostlygood ideas.
He wanted to be in bed with twohot chicks.
Ultimately we got Jenna Jamesonand this girl Tiara, those were
kind of last minute things withjust calling around and seeing
he was available.
Um, he, you know, totally wantedto be Robin, but he wanted to
call himself rat boy, which werelike, perfect.
Um, so, you know, and like Isaid, M has great ideas.
(07:41):
He, you know, he was obviouslydissing people.
Um, so, and we'll get into that,but it was just very funny, like
the way he wanted to do it.
And well, ultimately he did, youknow, does, he will do what he
wants and you do want them justas a commissioner, you wanna
make sure it's done with goodtaste.
And, and he always does that.
Um, but I do remember after wehad, you know, M and Paul and
(08:03):
everyone sign off on it, we hadto go to Dre, cuz it was
aftermath actually, who is theCobel and he, you know, had to
sign off on it.
So Joseph and I went to recordone, which is a studio, uh, in
Sherman Oaks, on VenturaBoulevard who parked in the
back, got through security.
And we had to show him the, thestoryboards for the video, you
(08:25):
know, we're going through thisand we're gonna do this and
we're gonna do that.
And then you and Dre and then,you know, and Dre was like, he
thought everything was cool.
He was like, what's this Batmanand Robin.
Like I'm not gonna dress up likeBatman.
That's ridiculous.
And I was like, no, no, no, no,no, no.
You're Dr.
Dre.
Like, you don't have to dress uplike Batman.
He's like, well, what am I gonnawear?
I was like, I don't know, like ablack leather jacket and a black
(08:47):
shirt with glasses and jeans,you know, like you're Dre like
you totally.
And he looked at me like, yeah,that's cool.
Okay.
I get it.
I'm like, yeah, you're Dr.
Dre.
He's rat, boy you'll come acrossas Batman and Robin.
But obviously, and this is evenbefore the dark night and all
that stuff, I'm like, you'recooler than Batman.
And he was like, yeah, shut up,Randy.
you.
You know, but I was honestlyfeeling like it would be stupid
(09:09):
if he dressed up like Batman,cuz that's not who he is.
He's Dr.
Dre.
And he holds this coveted spotin the music business as Dr.
Dre.
And it was always gonna be Dr.
Dre and rat boy, you know?
Um, so that was once we gotthrough that, it was all good.
And um, we were good to go.
(09:48):
So the video itself, um, we shotit in April, 2002.
The video visually follows thelyrics of the song, which mocks
a number of Em's critics,including um, then vice
president, Dick Chaney, um, andhis heart problems and his wife
(10:12):
Lynn Janney, um, the FCC crierPatrick event, Inc limp biscuit
Moby, um, it also lampoonscomparisons of him to Elvis
Presley as a white mansuccessfully, um, succeeding
commercially in like apredominantly black art form,
um, and a line also with Texasmom.
(10:33):
So we, and obviously you, as youwatch the video, you can see all
of that in the video played out,um, pretty true to form, I would
say, um, the mobi thing, thefunny thing about the mobi thing
was he used to, you know, hewould say nobody listens to
techno and I would always saylike I do.
And he was like, you're nobodyRandy.
(10:53):
And I was like, oh, so that'sthat line's about me.
But it was just funny becauseeven in 2002, I loved I, if you
know anything about me, youknow, how much I loved dance
music in particular depos intechno.
Um, but I, um, uh, loved it backthen.
And it was just a funny, youknow, like, but it was before
(11:15):
the EDM movement had exploded in2008 to 2000 whatever before
square lakes, before Diplo,before TTO and Hardwell, even
though TTO was out, he was atrans artist and he was kind of
underground.
Um, he was bigger obviously inEurope than he was in America,
but either way it was funny tojust have a old thing.
But, um, he, uh, he, it was justa, to me, it was like always a
(11:40):
funny line and you know, likethe way he portrayed it with
like mobi sitting in a suit,doing yoga with a keyboard,
like, yeah, that's not reallyhow they do dance.
He's like, but okay, that'sfine.
You know, like you guys, you doyou, um, the one, the, the main
performance per of the video wasMarshall on a green screen, in a
(12:05):
gray tracksuit.
Um, and he did a he's very part,you know, like most good
artists, they do a take and thenwanna look at it back.
So he, you know, we did a numberof takes with him on the green
screen till he was happy withhis performance.
And if you'll notice he has ahat on, right.
Like, uh, he has a do rag underthe hat and then a wool hat over
(12:27):
it.
Um, but not in everythingbecause after that was over, I
just kept saying, I would say tohim near the end, like, well,
let's do one without the hat.
And he's like, why?
And I said, because you're M andM and you have the blonde hair
and yeah.
But you can see me in the videowith the blonde hair.
I'm like, I know, but this isyour main performance take.
(12:49):
Let's do one.
I used to call it the SHTA let'sdo one without the SHTA in your
head.
And he's like, he didn't knowwhat that meant was like, you
know, what are you talkingabout?
I'm like the hat take the hatoff.
So he wouldn't take it off.
No, no, no, no, no.
He was finally like, I'm good.
Like he did, you know, he's a, aconsummate professional.
So he did, I wanna say 20 takes,it was probably 40, but we spent
(13:13):
a long time getting aperformance that he was
comfortable with, you know,with, in the gray suit, in the
gray tracksuit with the, youknow, the, um, hat on.
And then I was like, why don'twe just do two?
And he's like, I don't, I'm notgonna use it.
I'm like, yeah, you don't haveto use it.
But if we don't shoot it, wecould never use it cuz it's not
(13:34):
here.
And he's like, okay, I get it.
We'll do a couple fine.
I'll do do them without the, andhe would always mess up the
word, you know, whatever,whatever that thing you don't
wanna, man.
I'm like, yeah, just take offyour hat.
I keep everything the same.
Let's do it.
So I think we did one or twotakes without the hat.
And if you go through the video,you'll notice it's about 70% of
(13:56):
the performance as him, withoutthat.
Cuz once the hat came off, hewas just so relaxed and he just
didn't kind of didn't care.
Um, he was almost doing his,like a, whatever.
I'm just do, I'm doing this forthe label guy, you know, but
ultimately he's such aconsummate professional that
he's still great and that'swhere he's at his best.
And that's what I it's just me.
I'm disgusting.
(14:16):
You know, he was pointing at thecamera and doing all these fun,
really funny, fun moments andmoments and very relaxed.
So we ended up using a lot ofthat performance, which just
like I said, that's what thispurpose of this show is to kinda
give you the insight into that.
But all of them are really goodand he's obviously a consummate
professional and um, he, youknow, did a great job throughout
(14:38):
the whole thing, but we justfunny, we ended up using it
without Des schmatta, Sanschmatta, uh, in the most of the
video.
Um, the other thing, the realworld, which now doesn't seem
relevant at all was a very bigshow at the time and getting P
and those guys on, uh, girls onthe show and having MB a
character in the show, which wason MTV, um, which was kind of
(15:01):
the original reality show herein America was kind of a big
deal.
It doesn't really, um, play upthe, uh, play as well over time
when I watched it, I was like,oh yeah, the real world.
That's right.
Yeah.
You know, now it's like 16 andpregnant and uh, teen, mom and
Jersey shore.
And when, you know, the Hillsand Laguna beach, all the shows
(15:22):
at MTV's known for, but thisbefore that they were known for
the real world and it was a verybig deal.
Um, the climbing up the wall bit, um, I, I love that.
Um, we really tried to get acelebrity to open the thing was
on the Batman show, theoriginal, they would always have
like Sammy Davis Jr.
Or Dean Martin or eel birdHumper dink or somebody, you
(15:45):
know, Carol Burnett, somebodyfamous open the window and be
like, oh, it's the Capecrusaders and have a
conversation with them.
Um, we couldn't find acelebrity.
So we ended up using JoeProvenzano, who was the first AC
for Chris probes, who was the DPon the shoot, Joe pro in his own
right.
Is a DP now.
But back in the day he was sohe's actually makes a second.
(16:06):
That's his second appearance inthe video.
He's the first one on the guess,who's back the first time you
see it, he's got the suit andtie.
And then it goes to like apriest and a rabbi and a they
and a Sumo wrestler and a cactusand a bunny and couple people
make, make double, doubleappearances.
The bunny kicks Moby at he's inthe beginning and then kicks
Moby.
(16:27):
Um, OB Trice is in the beginningand then also throws down mobi.
Um, I actually make a cameo inthe video right at the beginning
of the video and you see thehand okay.
In five or I walk across thecontrol room and then I'm the
person that like does the, theclipboard towards the guy who
(16:47):
rolls camera and right before itsays, oh, we try a real name, no
gimmicks.
Um, which was funny because whenJoseph conceptualized the song,
for some reason, he didn't havethat part in there, he thought
that was just like a part ofthe, the CD, not the actual
video.
So he didn't plan to do that.
He had planned to do five, fouror three, two ones and, and it,
(17:09):
the songs start.
And then when we got to set thatday, we, you know, they, back in
the day, this was all shot onfilm.
So you would have a soundpackage that was made with time
code burnt in.
So you would have smart slate soyou could easily sync it.
And that way it was easy to do.
And post, when you were in post,you had film that had to be
synced with video.
(17:31):
I mean, with audio and then youwould go to Teleny and do
everything to get it into adigital realm.
So it was a, a little morecomplicated than it is today, as
far as getting to the editingprocess.
Um, not, not terribly terriblycomplicated.
It was much easier than it hadbeen 10, 15 years prior to that,
or even 20 years prior to that.
But, um, I remember we were onset and Joseph was like, all
(17:53):
right, well, let's play the songback and we'll listen to it.
And the beginning part came onand he was like, wait, there's
the OB choice parts on the songfor the video.
I'm like, yeah, of course.
So he just had one of his secondunits guys, shoot, you know,
that's why he'll notice like OBon a black and white thing with
like just some flashlights onhis face
dis it was just like, he didn'tthink about, he's like fine,
we're gonna lock it into the Dreon the, on the two-way, which is
(18:16):
another thing.
But I think we got paid to usethose Motorola two ways, which
were back in the day kind of abig thing, but this was right as
it was crossing over intoblackberries.
Another thing that most of youprobably don't even know what
they are, but blackberries werekind of two ways in a smartphone
environment, which combined yourPD.
So you had all your contacts,you could send emails easier.
(18:39):
It was a phone at the time.
It just felt like, oh, this isthe greatest thing ever.
This is four years, five yearsbefore the iPhone.
So that was, you know, just adifferent time, but you used to
have a cell phone and a two-wayright.
And the two-way was how youwould text message people.
So that's why you see at thebeginning of that video, that
red Motorola, which I'm prettysure we got, we got some money
(19:01):
from them to use.
Um, and it's just funny to seethe technology, how it was at
the time.
It was a cool thing to have,like you had a phone and you,
you look a flip phone and a text, a two-way texting Mo device,
the Blackberry came out, whichkind of combined them together.
And then that became the coolthing.
And then the iPhone came out andit all, all kinda changed as to
(19:26):
everything, but for the better Imight add.
Um, so yeah, we, we shot for twoor three days.
I remember one of my favoritescenes of the whole shoot was
Dre and M in the car.
Um, and I thought, for sure,after just watching the
chemistry between the two ofthem on screen, I was convinced
(19:48):
that someone in Hollywood wouldbe like, okay, we need to make a
trading places or a buddy movieor some sort of movie with the
two of them.
Cuz at the time M had justfinished, um, filming eight mile
.
He hadn't, that movie hadn'tcome out, but after eight mile
came out, which was, you know,he played the I'll get into it
in other episodes when we wereshooting, cleaning up my closet,
(20:11):
he played me lose yourself,which was one of those moments
of just incredible like, wow,well that's your best song
you've ever done.
And this is a guy who's made aton of great songs.
So, but, um, I, you know, I justwas surprised that that, that
never translated because Ithought for sure that was a
buddy movie waiting to happen.
There was just such greatchemistry and you can really see
(20:31):
it in the car.
The two of them just, there wasno real like direction or
anything.
It was just like a roll tape andjust let them do their thing,
which is just so, so fun towatch.
Um, uh, we, as I rememberediting the video was really
simple.
I remember sending it toeverybody.
(20:55):
Um, we had a pretty short, youknow, like commenting, there was
a couple shots that Marshalldidn't like of this and did blah
, blah, you know, performancethat we put in a lot more.
He liked obviously once he sawit, he liked the performance
without the hat.
So we ended up putting in moreof that, which I never said, I
told you, so that is not the wayto go about it, but it was like,
(21:16):
great.
No, it looks, it looksfantastic.
I, I don't think I even remindedhim of the fact that we had an
issue with performance or, youknow, with hat or no hat.
Um, but, uh, I just remember thepost was a kind of a big deal
because there was a lot of greenscreen and that was a little bit
more challenging back in theday.
(21:37):
And then all the graphics had togo on.
So there was a lot ofhandholding that, um, we had to
do Joseph and I just to be like,it's, it's, here's a, like we
would have to do a piece andthen send it off.
Like, this is what it's gonnalook like.
This is what the piece is.
This is the, you know, and so,um, you know, the, the, the
(21:58):
final final video got finished.
There was a whole curve fle, asI remember with the record
getting leaked early.
And so I remember promotionbeing like, I need to send this
video in now.
And it's like, oh, it's notreally ready.
You know?
And so we did, we sent in a, Iwould say 85% 90 rough cut, but
(22:21):
that last 10% was, you know, allthe cool graphics and all the
things that went on there.
And, and there was just such atoold and thing about the record
getting out and they had torelease it early and it had to
come out on a Thursday insteadof a Friday.
So it was the first week wassplit total.
None of the stuff that I dealtwith, I just made music videos.
I don't do sales.
I don't do, I ultimately domarketing with visuals, but that
(22:44):
wasn't really my, you know,where my rubber met the road.
It was me making the bestpossible video for the most
important single at that time.
And I do remember when the videofinally got on MTV that first
time I was in my office and itwas like, and now the world
premiere of MTV of M and MSSwithout me, you know, and they
(23:05):
played the video and we allwatched it and it was just like,
oh my God, it looks so good.
And then Paul Rosenberg, themanager called me and he was
like, yo sausage.
He's like that, that video'sgreat.
I just wanted to call you andsay, congratulations, I get it.
I totally get it.
He was like, I watched it onceand I couldn't see everything.
I'm like, well, that's the wholepoint, you know, like it's gonna
(23:26):
get played a thousand times thisweek.
We kind of want people to haveto watch it again.
He's like, yep, I get it.
Thanks sausage.
But, you know, he's a veryamazing human being, but very
matter of fact about it, but hedid gimme props.
And honestly, if you've everworked with Paul Rosenberg, you
know, that those are you TA youcherish those moments because
he's a perfectionist in what hedoes.
(23:47):
And for him to acknowledgesomething like that was very,
very good moment for me.
(24:09):
So the video itself obviouslywas added heavy rotation in MTV.
Um, it was, uh, it went on to benominated for six MTV music,
video awards.
They were best mail video, whichit won best rap video, which it
won best direction, which it wonfor Joseph Conn and video of the
(24:31):
year, which was my second videoof the year.
Um, the first one being ladyMarlo with, uh, Christine
Aguilera, pink Maya, Lil Kim andMissy Elliot.
That's a separate episode thatyou'll have to tune in for, um,
the two that it didn't win wasbest editing and the viewer's
choice awards, which, you know,you can't win.
(24:53):
'em all, I guess I literally isa as you listen to that, that is
the me reading them off.
We didn't win them all.
I guess you could win them all.
But in this instance, we didn'twin them all.
We won four of six, which is no66%, which is pretty good, six
60.
It also went on to, um, win theGrammy for best music video in
the 2003 Grammy awards, which Irecently saw Joseph Kahn who
(25:16):
agreed to be on one of thesepodcasts sometime in the future.
Um, and he said, oh, he startedme in the business.
And I was like, ah, I didn'tstart you, but he's like, well,
you got me my first Grammy.
And I was like, I did do that.
You know?
So that, that was that who wonthe Grammy.
Um, it was obviously a bigmoment for M um, a big moment
for music video and a big momentfor me.
(25:54):
Well, that does it for episodeone of the commissioner.
My name is Randy Sasson.
I appreciate you listening.
They'll be coming out weekly onyour favorite formats for
podcasts.
So until next time I'll leaveyou with this.
Just remember smell is like awireless version of.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com