November 24, 2025 • 54 mins
We explore how burnout creates a communication gap and why regulating the nervous system turns scattered messaging into clear, trustworthy leadership. Laura Cardwell shares tools that blend applied neuroscience, human design, and somatics to move from reaction to resonance.
• the cost of misalignment on trust and buy-in
• dopamine loops versus purpose-led motivation
• imposter narratives and self-worth at work
• breath and co-regulation as fast resets
• integrating human design for team synergy
• reframing “soft leadership” with data and outcomes
• building resonant teams for sustainable success
• curiosity as a daily leadership practice
“Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose”
I've poured all my best work into my newest book, Amplifying Your Leadership Voice: From Silent to Speaking Up. If today's episode resonated with you, I know the book will be a powerful tool. You can preorder it now to be one of the first to get your copy when it is out in December!
Thanks for listening and for being a part of The Communicative Leader community. To get even more exclusive tips—like the ones we talked about today—join us at TheCommunicativeLeader.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Leah OH (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of The Communicative
Leader.
I'm your host, Dr.
Leah O, and today we're divinginto a topic that's perhaps the
single greatest challenge tosustain strategic leadership:
burnout and the resultingcommunication gap.
Today we're joined by LauraCardwell, a mystic
neuroscientist and co-author ofthe powerful new book, Unstuck
Yourself (00:21):
Thrive Beyond Burnout and Discover Your True Purpose.
In a world demanding more andmore from leaders, the ability
to communicate with purpose isoften lost when a leader feels
depleted and disconnected.
Laura's unique approach blendsthe science of applied
neuroscience with the wisdom ofhuman design and semantics.
This methodology offers atransformative solution and
(00:44):
provides leaders with actionabletools to reconnect with their
authentic selves and criticallylead and communicate from
within.
Her work asserts that thegreatest strategic advantage is
a well-aligned, purposefulleader whose internal clarity
translates directly intoexternal influential
communication.
In today's episode, we're goingto explore how Laura's
(01:08):
strategies can help you movepast overwhelm and stop
communicating from this place ofreaction or stress and instead
foster a culture of sustainablesuccess and genuine
purpose-driven leadership.
If you are ready to unlock yourmost authentic and powerful
leadership voice, this episode'sfor you.
(01:28):
Let's dive in and have somefun.
Laura, welcome to thecommunicative leader.
(01:55):
I'm really excited to spendsome time with you today.
And I know your expertise, youcombine mystic neuroscience with
practical tools for leadership.
And this is so exciting for meto learn more about.
And I'm hoping, you know, toset the stage, you could share a
little bit about your personaljourney into this unique blended
approach and kind of maybe thattime when you started to
(02:17):
realize that that leader's innerstate is inextricably tied to
their outward strategiccommunication.
Laura Cardwell (02:24):
Yes, absolutely.
First of all, thank you forhaving me.
I'm so excited to be here.
And right, so you don't get tothis kind of blend of mystic
neuroscience with practicaltools for leadership without
having to really have done thework, right?
So the journey is long andwinding to have gotten me to a
place where where this is whereI'm leading.
(02:45):
But but ultimately it comesfrom my own story of burnout.
I've I've run a couple ofcompanies in in my past, small
small businesses, and and justgrown them at a pace that was
not sustainable, wasn't true tomy authentic self, and
ultimately ended up in states ofphysical, emotional, mental,
(03:05):
and even spiritual burnout.
And so as I kind of went on myown personal growth, spiritual
growth journey, I began torealize how important it is that
we get the whole mind, body,soul working together.
That often in our world,especially when it comes to our
work in the world, how we're ourcareer, let's say, we're
(03:28):
sacrificing one of those thingsto fulfill one of the others.
And so, and at the heart of allof that, a lot of my background
is in applied neurology, whichis like an energy, it works with
the energy of the brain, notnecessarily the chemistry, which
is what we would be doing if wewere in psychiatry or even the
thoughts, which is morepsychology.
Applied neurology looks at itas an energetic system and how
(03:52):
we get disruptions in the waythat energy runs in the system.
And and so from that, I realizethat's like what we're really
talking about when we say thatis nervous system work.
Dr. Leah OH (04:02):
Okay, I was just thinking that.
I was just thinking, I'm like,I wonder if this is connected to
the nervous system.
Like this has got to be exactlyawesome.
Yeah.
Laura Cardwell (04:11):
It's so funny because sometimes, sometimes I
can really be brilliant andsometimes I can just be dumb.
You know, like it's like Ithink we all have those moments.
Yeah.
And so for me, it took me along time to realize that
working with the energy of thesystem was working with the
nervous system.
To put those two thingstogether took me a while, right?
Like it's like, yeah.
But it is so your nervoussystem is really your brain and
(04:34):
your spine working together.
That is a mind-body connection,right?
And so we we see that in a lotof ancient modalities or even
eastern modalities that they'venever really been separate.
But really, in in our culture,we definitely look at them as
two different things, and we donot use the body as a resource
(04:54):
to help the mind.
Yeah, and so that's really howwe get to this place where
purpose then becomes regulatingthe nervous system helps the
purpose of the soul use the bodyto create, to become the leader
that you're meant to be.
Dr. Leah OH (05:10):
Yes, I love that.
And I I always think too, Ithink I'm not sure why we're so
quick to separate things andcall them mutually exclusive,
especially when they're not.
But I I always find thatthere's so much truth when
things are we recognize howthey're cyclical and
interdependent and connected.
And that's when we finallystart to get, I mean, buzzwords
(05:32):
like the synergy, but that'swhen everything works together.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so Laura, thank you forsharing some of your experiences
and the past that kind of ledyou here.
Because my next question, Iwant to think about that cost of
inauthentic communication.
So, you know, you do work, yourwork focuses on moving leaders
(05:54):
beyond burnout.
And from a communicationperspective, how does leader
depletion, it how does it it notjust affect productivity, but
also compromise the authenticityand clarity of a leader's
messaging?
And what is the cost of thatmisalignment?
Laura Cardwell (06:11):
Absolutely.
It's such a great questionbecause it's really we're
starting to kind of get into theheart of why.
Why bother being apurpose-driven leader?
Why bother healing the burnout,right?
Most of our culture justteaches us to push through, just
to push, right?
And so I think there's a coupledifferent costs.
The first cost is personal,like when we're really out of
(06:34):
alignment, our body, mind, andsoul is gonna show us, right?
We're gonna have pain in ourlives, and that could be
physical pain, it can beemotional pain, it can be mental
pain, it can be spiritual pain,but we're gonna experience
pain.
And so, and then pain thatisn't dealt with personally is
projected.
So then we begin to projectthat pain onto our people around
(06:56):
us, our families, ourcorporations, our businesses,
right?
And and then pain that's beingprojected onto someone now
becomes their responsibility andthey have to take it on.
And so now you've got this likethis cycle that that needs to
first be broken internally,right?
And we need to value slowingdown and saying, Well, why am I
(07:16):
feeling pain?
Yeah, and not just like, what'sthe band-aid I need for the
pain?
But like, let me just like youknow, so so what happens when a
a leader is living in pain ofsome sort and trying to lead
from that pain, thatmisalignment, I'll just, you
know, those are words, but likewhen people say misalignment,
we're like, what does that mean?
And I'm like, it means pain,right?
(07:37):
Like that's what it means.
But when people lead from that,the cost of that is trust.
There's you know, like I can'ttrust you as my leader because
you're projecting your pain onme.
Yeah, right.
And so, and now if I don't havetrust, I don't have buy-in.
I don't have buy-in.
Oh, yeah, you know, yeah, Idon't, I'm not here for you now.
I'm here for me.
(07:57):
And now I'm gonna start to makedecisions that are based on me
and not the the choice to bepart of something that's here.
So and when people stoptrusting and buying into the
corporation or the companythey're working for, they've got
one foot out the door.
They're starting to look forsomething else, right?
Yeah, because you're createyou're now creating a pain point
for them, which is now theirmisalignment.
(08:18):
And if they're listening totheir misalignment, they're
gonna start to make shifts intheir life and you're gonna lose
them.
Yeah, you know, so it's likeyou're gonna, and then you're
gonna have the the cost of thatbecomes a loss of productivity.
I mean, we can see itstatistically in the number, the
bottom line numbers, right?
We we see turnover rates go up,we see productivity go down,
vice versa.
We've seen companies bring in,you know, oh, especially over
(08:41):
the last 10 years, we've seenmajor companies like Microsoft
and Pepsi start to move towardsheart-centered leadership
decisions and strategies forproductivity and longevity in
the workplace.
And and they've had huge, Ithink one of those statistics is
236% increase in productivity.
(09:02):
Wow.
Right?
Like because people are buyingit.
Yep, yeah.
Yeah.
So I think it's a it's got aripple effect that's much bigger
than just like I'm in pain andI'm just gonna push through.
Dr. Leah OH (09:14):
Yeah, exactly.
And when you were talking,especially like losing trust,
losing buy-in, I was thinkingit's it's like a bad game of
dominoes, like you've knockedlike one thing knocks over the
next, and then you realizeyou're in this place where you
have more pain and less folksaround you who are there for the
(09:34):
you know, the collective forthe group as a whole.
Laura Cardwell (09:38):
Yeah.
And now you're just workingwith a group of people in pain.
Dr. Leah OH (09:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Laura Cardwell (09:44):
It's um it's not gonna grow, right?
And what we know, and I thinkwe'll probably talk about this
at some point, is that growthreally comes from internal
resonance and alignment, youknow, that synergy that you
said.
Like that's where growthactually comes from.
So you can't grow if you'reliving in pain.
Yeah.
That's also I mean, pain can bea way to grow if you're
(10:06):
listening.
Dr. Leah OH (10:07):
Yes.
Exactly.
And I love too that idea whenyou're talking about these huge
organizations that are takingkind of that heart-centered
approach to leadership.
I love the modeling, right?
I love what that iscommunicating in terms of uh
value.
And that's what I tellorganizations.
You don't even really have tolike buy in or believe this, but
(10:28):
if you want to see that impacton your bottom line, you want
people who are engaged.
This this is the path.
And I love that so manyorganizations are starting to
finally get on that healthybandwagon.
Laura Cardwell (10:42):
Absolutely.
I don't think it's a choice.
I mean, this might be skippingahead a little bit, but I I do
believe that kind of the future,the future of business, the
future of wellness, the futureof prosperity, yeah, the future
of how we be in the world, itreally is about alignment and
resonance.
And and I think even companiesare waking up to like, oh, I
(11:08):
mean, we see that, right?
We see that with the the wholemillennial generation that was
like, I'm not doing that.
Yeah.
And then everybody's like,whoa, whoa, wait, you're not
just gonna be the cog in mywheel that I want you to be.
Yeah, I'm just gonna judge youback into it.
And they're like, no, no, rightnow they might have been the
pendulum swinging kind of hardto one side, of like, but what
they're saying spiritually islike, I refuse to be in pain in
(11:31):
this company in some kind ofway.
Dr. Leah OH (11:34):
Exactly.
Laura Cardwell (11:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (11:35):
And Gen Z is continuing with that torch and
yes.
Yeah.
Oh, I love this.
What a fun conversation, Laura.
So it's just like my happyplace to be in.
So I want to learn, you talkabout a purpose gap, and I want
to learn more about this.
And I know you in the work thatyou do, you help leaders
reconnect with their authenticselves and lead from within.
(11:58):
So I'm hoping you can help us,you know, how do you define
authentic communication,especially when we have these
high-stakes corporate leadershipenvironments, and and then help
us to think about theself-alignment and how what does
that do for us then?
Laura Cardwell (12:13):
Absolutely.
This is where I have to, youmay have to rein me in.
Okay.
No, no, you go, girl.
I'm gonna I'm gonna encourageyou.
Yeah, this is really kind ofthe heart of my aha moment in my
work was this realization oneday.
I was studying.
(12:33):
I mean, a lot of my backgroundcomes from studying perception,
how we perceive things, youknow, and that really helped me
to begin to understand the howwhat we're thinking becomes this
photon storm of electricalactivity that becomes
neurotransmitters, that sendschemical messages through the
nervous system, lighting upfeelings and sensations in the
(12:57):
body.
And then that becomes that thatliterally delivers a message to
the cell that says, be this, dothis, right?
And so this connection betweenwhat we are thinking ourselves
into being and the meaning weassign our lives around us, and
how we physically become thatand how our environment begins
to reflect that just was it'sjust fascinating when you get
(13:17):
into that realm of study, right?
And so mind-blowing aha momentafter mind-blowing aha moment,
right?
And so, but in that, in thatjourney, in in applied
neurology, there's a lot ofyou're just kind of doing the
thing, you're looking at thepathway, you're tracing the
pathway of where the energy goesduring from different areas of
(13:38):
the brain.
And you and you kind of knowwhat you're doing, you know what
you're doing, you know whereyou are, you know what you're
doing, but you're notnecessarily looking at it like a
system.
Right.
And so one day I was reallydeeply kind of following this.
We have a this pathway calledthe reward pathway, the
motivation pathway.
And it kind of gets passed overa lot when we talk about all
(14:01):
these other more important, likefight or flight, people focused
on other kind of neurologicalpathways when we're looking at
the nervous system.
But I really began to slow downand look like at the at the
primitive level, this pathway isthe one that gets us to go eat,
to find shelter, right?
It's it motivates us.
It gets it, it literallycollects everything and says, go
into the world.
And then as it gets into themore limbic areas or the more
(14:23):
emotional areas of the brain, itbecomes this pathway that's
really about reward and pleasureand play.
And you know, so it's likereward and motivation, and and
so it's like that is that I Igot the signal to go eat, but I
actually went to eat ice creambecause it made me feel good,
right?
Like it's like it's that driveto like go get the ice cream and
(14:44):
fill the bowl.
And so so we get so and that isa dopaminergic pathway.
And we, you know, dopamine issomething we're hearing tossed
around a lot right now.
It's a kind of a hot word.
And dopamine is a motivator,right?
It is it's a motivator, but byitself, it has no real emotional
context.
Okay, and it can keep us inthese loops of external
(15:07):
validation.
Dr. Leah OH (15:08):
Okay.
Laura Cardwell (15:08):
And so when we have leaders and when we have
workers who are looking or beingdriven by external validation,
then it is it is productive butmeaningless.
And so it has no meaning.
We haven't assigned any meaningto it.
It's only when this samepathway travels kind of through
the cortical areas of the brain,the thinking mind, and then
back down into the system thatwe see it gather the
(15:31):
neurochemistry that starts toassign deeper meaning.
And that's the pathway thatsays, but why?
Who am I here to be?
Why am I here?
We will inevitably start toquestion that because it
motivation is really curiosity,right?
We're curious.
And so curiosity then opens themind.
Curiosity opens the mind in somany ways.
(15:52):
And so when we're open, we'remore creative, we're more
innovative, we have more accessto the both the right and the
left brain, and we're asking fordeeper meaning.
And so for me, if you reallywant to be a high-stakes leader,
yeah, you have to be goingbeyond using that dopaminergic
pathway.
It will wear itself out, itwill create either addictions or
(16:15):
it will create burnout, right?
So it's like and for thatlong-term kind of sustainable
being able to let your purposelead your your communication, it
has to have a deeper meaning.
It has to access that deeperpart of the neurology.
So that's we're waking up.
(16:38):
I think we're waking up as aculture to like our purpose is
more important than our be ourdoing.
Yeah, you know, and when when Isay purpose, I always mean it's
who I'm being.
And then from there, why I bethat, and then from there what I
do.
Okay.
So we tend to talk aboutpurpose as our career or what
we're doing, as we're doing, youknow.
Yeah.
But it's actually even and evenif we've evaluated that, where
(17:01):
we say why, right?
So it's the same pathway, yeah,right?
We the dopamine to the seeking,but really believe below that,
but in the depth of it, when itwe really go in, purpose is
about am I being who I was, I'mhere to be.
Yeah.
Right.
Am I in alignment with thattruth?
Yeah.
And then am I communicatingfrom that place?
Dr. Leah OH (17:19):
Yeah, exactly.
And well, I love the learningthe physiolog physiology of
that, of purpose and the thatdeeper meaning making.
And it is helpful, you know, asa society that's wired for, I
think, these like quick dopaminehits and this external
(17:39):
validation, it becomes a loteasier to see why so many people
get stuck on that track and whyit's so hard to get off of.
Laura Cardwell (17:50):
Yes.
Yeah.
I tell people all the time, youknow, getting the external
validations at work is likeeating sugar.
Yes.
Yeah.
Right?
You're getting, you're getting,yeah, every time somebody says,
good job, you know, you'regetting that little, but it is
finite.
You cannot sustain it.
Dr. Leah OH (18:08):
Yeah.
Laura Cardwell (18:08):
Right.
The the real joy has to comefrom an internalized alignment,
not an externalized success.
Dr. Leah OH (18:14):
Yes, yes.
Beautifully stated, Laura.
So let's keep thinking aboutleaders.
And you know that many of ourmost successful leaders and
organizations and industries,they're subject matter experts,
right?
They've gotten here becausethey they know they can talk the
talk, they can walk the walk,but they struggle to transition
(18:37):
from communicating what theyknow to kind of who they are, or
even the ability to connectthese in meaningful ways.
So I'm wondering in the thework that you do, what do you
see as these big internalbarriers or these self-imposed
old narratives that prevent ourleaders from speaking their true
purpose?
Laura Cardwell (18:58):
Oh, I mean, do we have all day to talk about
the narratives?
Right.
Because it's like, think abouthow many people end up in a
leadership position in whichthey now feel the imposter
syndrome of I don't deserve tobe here.
Yeah.
That's the first one, right?
Like it, you know, so much ofleadership is based in
self-worth and self-value.
And so if we're not, if wedon't believe we're worth the
(19:22):
position that we're in, thenthen we're gonna project pain
because we're we're in pain,right?
And so we're gonna project thatinsecurity onto our team.
We're gonna, we're gonna lookfor other people to validate us
instead of knowing that we'revalid, we're valuable just
because we're in that role,right?
So so it starts with everysingle narrative, and we don't
have to all day to list why weall have the narrative.
(19:43):
And it is true alsostatistically that women are
more likely to experience theimposter syndrome as they move
up in leadership roles than menare, right?
Like, because I mean, that'sjust a statistic that still just
goes with all the other they'renot being valued often the
same, right?
So it's like we can, you know,those things are true, but I
(20:04):
think I think so.
It starts with being willing toevaluate your own story about
your own worth.
Do I believe I'm I'm worth it?
I also want to just take asecond and and say here that I
believe that every single humanis a leader.
It's not, you know, we callthem titled leaders, right?
When they finally when they'rein a role in a company that's
(20:27):
deemed a leader, we're lookingat things from like a
hierarchical perspective.
But when we look at things onthe on the full grid and not
just in one ladder order,everyone is here to lead and
we're leading in different ways.
You know, we lead from thefront, we lead from the sides,
we lead from the back, we leadin all sorts of you know,
support is leadership, empathyis leadership, you know.
(20:50):
So it's like so all of us thenare being asked to look at our
story of self-worth andself-value, right?
Because if I'm in a supportrole in a company, do I value
myself in the support role?
And am I being valued?
Because if I don't value me, noone else can value me.
So I need to look at mynarrative around value.
(21:10):
I I find that we we wrap thatconversation up in lots of
different words.
We can look at it from lots ofdifferent angles, but when we
really peel away the layers, italmost always comes down to
self-worth.
Dr. Leah OH (21:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I can see that.
And it's it's so challenging,right?
Like, and especially you bringup women in leadership
positions, and we think aboutsocialization and then I mean
the literal narratives we hearon television, the headlines.
And when you were talking, itmade me think so way back in
(21:43):
season one of this podcast, andI was just kind of finding my
footing.
I even did this episode all onmy own, and it was about
imposter syndrome.
And even, I think it's like sixyears later, it's still in my
top five most downloaded.
I was my own guest.
I was just like presentingliterature on it, you know.
(22:03):
And and so, yeah, I really seehow that that is one that kind
of is this weight that continuesto kind of pull people down and
be a hard one to escape from.
Laura Cardwell (22:17):
It's so hard to deal with.
I mean, I just want to saythere, like when we talk like
this, it makes it sound likeit's easy to just name imposter
syndrome.
Like it's like, yeah, but it'sso much deeper than that.
Like you said, it's it's it'sin the energy of the world we're
born into.
It's not even just thenarratives we're told, it's it's
reprogramming.
(22:37):
And that is why it's soimportant to get the mind, body,
emotional system all on thesame page.
Because if you're just doingthe affirmations like, I am
worthy, I'm worthy, that's onlyworking in the mental field.
If your nervous system doesn'tbelieve that, you're still
radiating a different story.
Yeah.
It's like it's deeper than justthe mindset.
Dr. Leah OH (22:59):
Yeah.
And I'm wondering if this nextquestion will get to that
alignment.
Um, and if not, maybe we cancircle back to that.
But I'm thinking about thestrategic voice and thinking
about your methodology.
And I know you bring appliedneuroscience, human design, and
somatics.
And I'm wondering how youintegrate these principles to
help leaders physically,mentally, spiritually create
(23:23):
that strategic voice.
And I think most important,that is sustainable, right?
And certainly I think when wehave all those, we can assume
it's kind of rooted in purpose.
But how do you Laura, like,what does that work look like?
How do we start to integratethose so that we really have
that inner power, right?
And that inner peace and thatsource of energy that continues
(23:47):
to give, instead of just, likeyou said, waiting for the
external like hits of sugar inthe office and the good jobs and
well done.
Laura Cardwell (23:57):
I mean, this is like first of all, it starts
with I got here because this ismy journey.
I didn't read something in abook, go to school, learn it,
and decide I was going to teacheverybody how to do it.
Yeah.
You know, like I got herebecause this has been my journey
to like trying to heal thingsand realizing I only had a piece
of the puzzle.
And so I had this very long andvaried background.
(24:20):
You know, I was an art jeweler.
Actually, the the first time Iburnt out, I was an art jeweler
for about eight years and I grewmy company too fast.
I had too many accounts and Icouldn't make the jewelry
necessary in the time frame.
And I just ended up really infetal position, you know, just
like I just could not function.
It really deep states ofburnout.
(24:40):
And it wasn't because I didn'thave the passion or the love.
Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (24:43):
Yeah.
Laura Cardwell (24:44):
Have the self-worth to tell people no.
Dr. Leah OH (24:47):
Yeah.
Laura Cardwell (24:47):
Right.
So, so in the so as I start tokind of talk about these things,
this has been on my personaljourney back to health from
being really, and I think healthis a mind-body-soul thing.
It's not just one, you know.
And so I started off workingwith, like I said, the nervous
system and the mental field ofwhat's going on and really kind
(25:08):
of understanding how blocks inthe in the energy of the spine
and the brain created painpoints mentally and emotionally
and physically for people.
And I really, I really lovedthat work, like helping people
kind of move that, see differentthings, and starting to ask the
right question at the righttime to get that energy to move
(25:29):
in a different way.
Perspective can shift energy inreally big ways.
And that's where we bring inkind of coaching.
Coaches, coaches don't give youanswers, they ask you
questions, right?
And and it gets you in thatplace.
And so, but what I found wasthat no matter what, it was
still kind of missing this likethis deeper, but who am I here
to be?
Dr. Leah OH (25:49):
Who am I here to be?
Laura Cardwell (25:51):
And that's where human design danced around me
for a long time.
But human design, if if forthose people that don't know,
it's like a personality quiz,you know, like a Myers Briggs,
only it's a it's what we call atimestamp.
So based on your birthday.
What I like about things thatare based on your birthday is it
takes away all of your story.
(26:13):
You cannot use your filters tofill it out, right?
Like and so what we get is areally accurate imprint of what
those filters, those perceptionsmight be.
And then we can see, like, oh,that's the way I perceive the
world.
And so therefore, this is theway my brain thinks, this is the
way my, you know, and it startsto fill in some of that, that,
(26:36):
that subtle body question thatwe have of like, who am I here
to be?
Human design is is notnecessarily meant to be this map
to like you're this, this, andthis, and these are the boxes
you're meant to live in.
It's more a guide to how you bein the world energetically.
Okay.
And it tells you, like, whatwho am I here?
Who am I here to be first?
What am I radiating from theinside of me?
(26:57):
But then how am I meant to bein relationship with other
people?
And that's where it reallytakes it one step beyond a
personality quiz, which isgenerally focused on just me.
This is more about me inrelationship to other.
And then once I'm that, humandesign really begins to open up
and answer, and also how am Imeant to serve?
And that is where purposereally comes in.
(27:18):
Service is really our our soulleadership, right?
Like the thing I'm here to giveback in a bigger way.
And so, but to incorporate allof those things together, we
need the body to get online.
Yep.
And that's where somatics comein, right?
So our physical bodies are justone constant signal to the
(27:40):
brain.
We actually have moreinformation coming from the gut
and the heart into the brainthan we have from the brain
going to the body.
Oh, how interesting.
Right.
And we don't think about itthat way, right?
We think about brain downbecause we think hierarchy
because that's what we've beentrained to think.
So, synergy, though, is thatthere's actually way more
information coming the other wayaround, right?
So we get this like flow up anddown.
(28:02):
And if we're not listening tothe body, now I want to say this
because right now there's thishot topic of like my body says
you're not safe for me.
Right.
Like, and and my I'm listeningto my body and it says this
isn't safe and you need tochange that, and this isn't safe
and you need to change that.
And I just want to name thatthat's a conversation that's
going around when we first startlistening to our body, we
(28:24):
realize we might not feel heardor valued or safe in certain
situations.
And that does create some needfor change.
But if you're asking someoneelse to change to make it
better, that's that's not whatit's about, right?
Like this is the body's wisdomfor us.
And so it might be that thatperson's not in alignment with
(28:45):
you, that job is not inalignment with you, that
situation's not in alignmentwith you.
But your work is to learn howto regulate your own nervous
system.
And this is the part of theconversation that I think has
been left out.
Yes.
We've somehow left it out,right?
Like it's like every it we'vealmost turned.
There's a really great bookcalled The Coddling of the
(29:06):
American Mind.
Okay.
And they kind of name the threethings that are going on in
this younger generation that arebecoming the challenge that
happens when we, you know, likewhat they call coddling.
And one of them is that we havethis whole generation, this Gen
X, Gen Z, I mean the Gen Z andthe millennial kind of where
they're looking for the externalenvironment to be safe.
(29:27):
Yes.
Instead of learning, no one'staught them how to create safety
in their own nervous system.
And so that's really what thisblend of applied neuroscience
and human design and somatics isreally doing is it's teaching
people how to create safety intheir own system and then to
lead from that safety.
Yes.
That that knowing, that innerknowing.
(29:48):
Once we feel safe to be whowe're meant to be, we can be it.
Dr. Leah OH (29:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I love so much about that,Laura.
So I love it, and I I do thinkI think your work is helping us
to uh Kind of formulate thatanswer to that question that a
lot of people have been like,okay, I know that I need to
learn how to better regulatethis, but how?
Like what happens next?
What are those steps?
(30:12):
And it's funny too, and you'retalking about these younger
generations.
So some of my peer-reviewedmost recent work, I've done some
looking at when millennialstransitioned in, and most
recently with Gen Z.
And essentially it is folkswho've been in organizations for
a while being like, why do theyexpect us to change everything
for them?
(30:32):
We can't do this.
And then these millennials andGen Zers who are like, why
aren't they changing thesethings?
People are used to peoplechange when we tell them this
doesn't feel right, this doesn'tfeel good.
And that's where we're seeingthese like continued kind of
clashes.
So it's, I was smiling becauseI I always, you know, you can
see how these things arehappening.
(30:54):
You're seeing what's going onin individuals, and then I'm
looking at them in these bigdata samples, these large cohort
groups, and we're seeing it inaction.
Laura Cardwell (31:06):
Absolutely.
I do think I think on a on agrand scale, we're moving from
that hierarchy, right?
Which has been kind ofcontrolled down and not in a bad
way.
I think it just was what waswas.
Yeah.
And and I think it's not on onaccident.
I think it is part of our humangrowth that we're at a place in
(31:29):
humanity where we have to stopand say, wait, what is emotional
regulation and why are we notteaching that?
What is nervous system safetyand why are we not teaching how
to access that?
What is purpose and why are wenot leading with that?
I think we are, these areglobal questions that are being
that, you know, I always believethat there's the the interface
(31:50):
of my personal growth.
I have to do the workinternally, but we are also kind
of looking at thingsgenerationally, we're looking at
things, there's archetypes uponarchetypes upon archetype,
yeah, right.
And then there's the collectiveexperience, and that's where
archetypes actually come from.
And so at that collectivelevel, we're at a place in human
(32:10):
history where we're saying, oh,wait, control is not a way
forward, fear is not a wayforward.
My that's not the way.
And so we have these, you know,we can look at those in
microcosms and look at like howthat's showing up in
generations, but it's but what'sbubbling up is that we've we
have, you know, I'm almost 50.
(32:32):
The generation before me hadvery little control.
There was not, there was not awhole lot of, and there was very
little emotional awareness,very little.
I mean, they had it forthemselves, but you didn't bring
that into the world.
No, so like my generation isthis bridging generation of
okay, I've been told that I needto just get in line and do what
(32:54):
I'm supposed to do, but I'mhaving all these emotions, and
how do I figure that out?
And our leadership role, Ibelieve, our leadership role as
a generation in every role inwhich we are, yeah, is to teach
the younger generations how toemotionally regulate.
Yes.
Dr. Leah OH (33:10):
Yeah.
It's part of our role.
What a gift.
And I think this next questionkind of helps us to start
thinking about that in ways.
I know you have a new bookcoming out, and I'm so excited
about it.
And I wonder if we could thinkabout how to transform being
overwhelmed into clarity.
And I know in in your book youyou kind of talk about this
(33:32):
practical step-by-step strategyfor leaders to take those
moments of internal when they'reoverwhelmed or that decision
decision fatigue.
And then how do we get unstuck?
How do we translate that intointernal clarity and you know,
allowing that to shine throughin our messaging then in our our
relationships with others?
(33:53):
I mean, yes, yes.
Laura Cardwell (33:56):
So, and this is the heart of the book, right?
Is that it's not enough just toknow things.
We have to be different.
Yeah.
And in order to be different,we need tools, right?
We need we cannot just like wecannot think ourselves to
different.
We won't change.
Right.
Often our thoughts are based invery old programming.
Yeah.
And so part of the work isdeprogramming what what that
(34:18):
older messaging is.
And so in the book, we give thethe last part of the book, we
really give the full what wecall the integrative somatic
experience, okay, which can bebroken down into many practical
steps.
But the first one, the veryfirst one, is to breathe.
And it's so funny, Leah,because so many people like if
(34:42):
we we know this, we wescientifically we know what
breath does for us, right?
We we know this, but if you askpeople, it's when I do these
these talks or these workshops,and I'm like, okay, how many
people have heard that yourbreath can help regulate your
nervous system?
And almost everybody raisestheir hand.
And then I say, keep your handup if you do that when you need
it.
And only like one hand.
(35:02):
Yeah, it's just like becauseit's hard for us to remember to
use the tool in the moment.
That's because that's what areactive brain does.
It takes us out of our what Icall our responsible mind, which
is the one that's able torespond, and it takes us into
reactive mind, which is wayfaster.
And and our reactive mind isoften based in primitive fears
(35:25):
and fight or flight and nervoussystem dysregulation.
So practically, you know, inthe book, we give like some
different examples of some waysyou can kind of change the
neurology in the moment.
That like if you have, we westart with if you if you don't,
if you can't get away and youneed to handle it right now in
the boardroom.
(35:45):
Yeah, how do you belly breathe?
Three big full box breaths tolike before you open your mouth.
It's amazing breath.
I mean, we could talk aboutbreath in it for a whole
episode, you know, and what itdoes to the system, but what it
does to the brain is it itaccesses creativity.
Oh, and creativity gives usclarity.
(36:06):
And so there's a directcorrelation between oxygen in
the brain, our ability torespond, and our ability to
answer with clarity from ourbreath.
Now that actually goes all theway back to Chinese medicine and
the and the basis of Chinesemedicine, there's there's five
elements, and the element ofmetal is the lung energy, and
(36:30):
the element of the lung and themetal energy is clarity and
understanding from a higherself, right?
So, like this is not somethingthat's new to us, right?
That's what I'm saying there isthat we can trace that back.
And so I tell people if youonly have three seconds to
answer the question, use thosethree seconds to breathe.
Yeah, and then the second thingis to breathe from the body and
(36:53):
not your mind.
So don't, you know, likeliterally drop into get into the
lowest part of your body youcan feel, whatever that is, and
breathe from there becauseyou're reconnecting then the
mind-body connection.
Yeah, and you can access thewisdom of the body.
We tend to feel like a culture,and I am very guilty of this
(37:13):
that feels a pressure to answerfrom our minds to be certain, to
know, to but but wisdom now Imean this is knowledge, right?
What we've got in our brain,but wisdom comes from the body,
yeah.
So a few deep breaths andconnecting to the body, and it's
amazing what comes out yourmouth, right?
Like it's like, oh my gosh,that's the answer, right?
Like, so and then if you needmore, if you have a little more
(37:35):
time, the book does give yousome some deeper things where
you can really move the emotionthat's in the way if that's
what's going on.
But always the first thing, thestep-by-step, the first thing
is always breath.
Dr. Leah OH (37:47):
Awesome.
Yeah, right.
And something we can alwaysaccess, but that we usually tend
to forget.
But if we're thinking about it,I like that.
I always love the uh uh likethe teaching, leadership,
communication, you know, thattool analogy and being like we
eventually you want to get to adeeper where it's it's you know
part of your lens and your view.
(38:09):
But in the beginning, if we arerecognizing like I need help
regulating, then pulling outthat breathing tool and thinking
about that is the way it'sgonna set you up to be more
successful.
Laura Cardwell (38:22):
Right.
And for right now, breathing isfree.
Yeah, and yeah, and you know,like it's like you have access
to it in the moment.
It doesn't require that youremove yourself, you have other
tools, you know.
It's like the other thing thatI have found that's really
important is is can I connect tosomeone?
You know, like clarity cannotcome from chaos.
I mean, clarity does come fromchaos when it comes from wisdom
(38:44):
and not knowledge, but yeah,it's like sometimes I tell
people like connect to theirself first and then look up and
connect to someone.
Right often when we're tryingto get the answer from our own
craziness, yeah, we can't we weneed to co-regulate sometimes.
So find someone who's makingeye contact with you and hold it
(39:05):
for a second.
Yeah, it's amazing whatconnection can do to open up
energetic space.
Dr. Leah OH (39:10):
Oh, a hundred percent.
Yeah, that's something Ilearned.
I have an anxious kiddo, and Ione of the best things that I
learned was how communicativenervous systems are.
And so just being able tomaintain my own regulation and
calm in that moment would soquickly calm everything down for
(39:32):
that little.
Laura Cardwell (39:33):
Yeah.
It's I mean, we could talkabout the science of
co-regulation and what thatactually means for a long time,
but it is true we are energeticbeings in interaction with other
energetic beings, and ourenergy affects other people and
their energy affects us.
So it is true, yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (39:51):
Like, yes.
So that makes me think incommunication.
We have a uh theory emotionalcontagion, right?
And it's it's explaining thatjust in different words, but it
works both ways, yeah.
Laura Cardwell (40:05):
Like you can have an emotional contagion that
is someone who's angry in anoffice and everybody is dancing
around that person and and feelsthe anger, but you can also
have someone who's just a littledrop of sunshine and everyone
feels that, right?
It does work both ways, yeah,exactly.
Dr. Leah OH (40:22):
So let's let's talk about skepticism.
Because I imagine sometimes, Imean, even as a leadership
communication scholar, I'll havepeople, especially the old
guard who will be skeptical ofit.
So I'm wondering, Laura, youknow, when you're shifting to
this purpose-driven, authenticleadership style, I think that
(40:43):
it's often, not often, it can bemischaracterized as soft in
some traditional businessenvironments.
So I'm wondering how canleaders effectively communicate,
you know, in bottom linebenefit terms, how you're
unstuck, unstuck yourself aspart of your book title, how
this approach can lead to securebuy-in and and motivate those
(41:06):
around them.
Laura Cardwell (41:07):
Yeah.
I mean, I have a really, ittook me a long time to really
know this about myself, but Ihave a really logical brain.
And I always really identifiedmyself as kind of the more
creative because I was raised ina house of of deeply skeptical
scientific minds.
Okay.
And so yeah, compared to them,I was creative, right?
(41:28):
Like it was like they, youknow, like they're incredibly uh
high-producing, amazing humans,right?
So it's I have an amazingfamily, but it took me a long
time to understand that my Iactually part of my human design
is to be skeptical.
And that skepticism serves mycuriosity so that I can build
(41:50):
those bridges.
So, one of the things I oftenfind myself is in a room full of
the old guard skepticism, youknow, like, and how do we
communicate how important thisnew type of leadership to them?
It's to them, it is like a newparadigm of leadership.
There's you know, it's it'sit's often foreign, right?
And so, and it hasn't workedfor them in the past.
I want to say that like theycan list out why soft leadership
(42:13):
has not worked for them and ithasn't gotten the results.
And so I try and help themunderstand that emotional
intelligence is not the samething as soft leadership.
Soft leadership is noboundaries, soft leadership is
no no leadership, right?
Emotion leading with emotionalintelligence is is different
than just not leading.
Yeah, and that's what they'vecorrelated often is that to lead
(42:36):
with emotional intelligencemeans I can't lead.
I can't I can't tell peoplewhat to do.
And I'm like, you can tellpeople what to do, but you're
gonna tell people what to dofrom a more informed and a more
neurologically efficient place.
Yeah, right.
So if you are regulated andleading and communicating from
authenticity, and that's what Ioften tell them is it's for
(42:57):
them, it's not about make makingeverybody else be different.
Yeah, it's about leading fromtheir authenticity.
Once they do that, that'sregulating their emotional
system, they're co-regulatingthe people in the room to their
authenticity, and then thosepeople want to do what you want
them to do versus trying tocontrol them into doing it.
Yeah, right.
(43:18):
Like, and that's inefficientand often doesn't work.
And then you you le you losepeople, you know, and then I I
remind them that to be regulatedin your nervous system is
efficiency, right?
Like that's the brain is alwaystrying to be efficient, yeah.
And so an efficient, regulatedleader is more creative, they're
(43:39):
more innovative, they makebetter decisions, they have they
retain their client, theirtheir people in their company
longer, they have long-termbuy-in from their, you know,
they don't just expect people tocommit, they create an
environment in which people wantto commit.
Yeah, and that's different.
And so yeah, and that thatultimately will save their
(44:00):
organization.
Like, then we put it intostatistics, right?
Like it saves money, it createsbetter productivity, it reduces
turnover, it increasesengagement, right?
Like the data backs authenticleadership much more than it
backs controlling leadership,which the old guard has only
ever learned how to controltheir way into leadership.
(44:22):
And it's not their fault, it'swhat they were modeled.
Dr. Leah OH (44:25):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, and and I like I like toothat you raise up that, you
know, 10, 15, 20 years ago, anauthentic approach probably
would have fallen flat, or youwould have had to find the the
exact right environment for thisto thrive.
And I think that's a reallyhelpful way of removing any
(44:48):
potential blame or shame andrecognizing that things have
changed.
And you have this option tochange with it, but it's likely
to feel a lot better and likeauthentic in the in the title,
right?
It says it all there.
Laura Cardwell (45:02):
And they need to be validated in their what
they've created.
You know, we we're we'recurrently in a culture that's
fairly shaming offense.
Yes, yep.
And so they're they're fairlydefensive right now, and they
yeah, and I get it, right?
Like there's it feels likethey're being devalued and and
instead of appreciated, but needto change.
(45:24):
And if you can appreciate whatthey've created and who they
are, then they're willing, youknow, like everybody's willing
to make changes when they'refeeling appreciated.
Look at every single kind of,but we're we've we're in a
dangerous place of shaming andblaming.
And I don't I don't thinkthat's leadership.
Dr. Leah OH (45:41):
No, nope, nope, I agree, couldn't agree more.
Yeah.
So let's look at sustainablesuccess again.
Because I think that in a lotof the conversations I've had,
I've you know, talked to people,I've I've tried this and I
worked for a little bit or I'vedone this for a little bit, but
I couldn't, I couldn't sustainit.
I couldn't integrate it into,you know, that daily repertoire.
(46:03):
So, in your experience, Laura,how does communication, when
it's deeply rooted in purposeand transparency, how does that
foster a culture of trust,especially when that leader is
communicating strategy in adifferent way?
Laura Cardwell (46:19):
Yeah.
I think this is one of theplaces where human design really
plays out in the when when webring human design into the
culture, to the teams, humandesign is really about the
ecosystem of humans and how weinteract.
Yeah.
And so when we first learn whoI'm meant to be and how I
function best in the world, andI really do the internal work to
(46:42):
align with that, and that canbe hard.
I'm not devaluing the processof that.
That can be hard.
But what it what it happensenergetically is we we become
what I call resonant, a resonantleader, meaning I'm really in
alignment with my mind, body,and soul are all in alignment,
and I become a resonant leader,and a resonant leader is
(47:02):
magnetic.
It it's current, it's thatcharisma, right?
We feel it, we know it, we'reattracted to it.
And so, in this journey, thento creating teams or sustainable
cultures or sustainablesuccess, they don't, they're not
looking for perfection, they'relooking for congruence.
We're looking for everyonebeing in their resonant
(47:26):
leadership.
If everyone in the room is intheir resonant leadership, what
happens energetically is we areamplifying something much bigger
than something much bigger thaneven the sum of its parts.
Yeah.
Right.
It's like there's anamplification that comes when we
trust that each person'sauthenticity is is valuable, you
(47:51):
know.
And what happens right now isthat we can often not feel like
that if that person isn't actingexactly the way that I think
they should, then it won't work.
Right.
Like, but if we trust thatdiversity in that way, like
people are meant to bedifferent, yeah.
And if we allow that thatdifference in the way they need
to be, the way they need to showup, the way that even like when
(48:13):
we really dive into humandesign, some people aren't meant
to work nine to five.
Yeah, what happens if we trustthem to work based on their
energy flow, yeah, then they areway more productive, they bring
way more to the table.
You know, like so it's likethere's there's a it's a trust
that flows both ways.
Yes.
And if you can really learn totrust, and we are not a culture
(48:38):
that learns to trust veryeasily, right?
Like it's like no trust isn'ttrained in us.
And I think that goes back tolike we have so many, so many of
us were even born into likelet's just say religions that
taught us like trust was outsideof us.
We needed to trust in somethingout there, you know.
So it's like learning to trustcan feel foreign, you know, and
(48:59):
then trusting myself first andthen outward.
So sustainable success happensthrough this internal work
towards towards alignment, whichcreates resonance, which
creates more charisma, yeah, andthen amplifies a team in a way
that's like it.
I say that's where the magichappens because you cannot even
(49:21):
now you're into the realm ofpossibility and you cannot even
think your way to where thatteam is going.
Yeah, it's even you can't evenput on your vision board how
great that team might be.
Yeah, you know, it's just itshocks you.
So so yeah, it's it's that.
It's and and trust comes fromthe safety of knowing I am safe
in me and you are safe in you,and it's safe for you to be you,
(49:41):
and it's safe for me to be me.
And we've relearned how to tonavigate relationship from that
place, and that requiresemotional regulation and being
willing to have hardconversations, yeah, and being
willing to stay in ourauthenticity and being willing
to stay curious, and you know,and those are just things that
we're we're just relearning.
We've known them, they're inthere, but we're relearning them
(50:03):
in business and leadership.
Exactly.
Dr. Leah OH (50:06):
That's what I always think.
I'm like, those are hard thingsfor sure, but I think it's also
important to raise up likestaying in an inauthentic place
or being in an organizationwhere we don't trust and we
don't have buy-in.
That's a really hard place anda hard thing too.
So it's kind of like choose,choose your hard.
And one's gonna come with a lotmore benefits than than the
(50:29):
other.
Laura Cardwell (50:30):
Yeah, yeah, one's gonna probably lead to
burnout somewhere.
Dr. Leah OH (50:33):
Yeah, exactly.
Laura Cardwell (50:35):
Exactly.
You can't carry those.
You we say it's wearing masks,you know, you can't wear the
masks for for forever.
Dr. Leah OH (50:42):
Yeah, exactly.
Laura Cardwell (50:44):
They have a cost, yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (50:46):
So, Laura, I have two final questions for you.
And these are interconnected.
This is way we end all of ourepisodes of the communicative
leader.
So the first part is, you know,what is the advice, the
challenge, the tip for ourtitled leaders out there?
And then the second part of thequestion is, you know, what do
(51:06):
you want to leave employees ofall ranks across all industries
in terms of that tip challengerpiece of advice related to, you
know, leadership communication?
Laura Cardwell (51:17):
Absolutely.
So starting with the titledleaders, yeah.
You know, my when when whenasked this kind of question, it
took it took me a while to kindof hone in on what how I wanted
to answer that question, becausethere's so much you want to
leave a leader with, right?
But I have learned that if Icould just give one piece of
advice, it's curiosity.
It's like curiosity, if I juststop and get curious about how
(51:41):
I'm feeling, about how they'refeeling, about what's going on,
about am I in alignment?
Am I about to say somethingfrom my true self, my or from
from a mask that I'm wearing?
Am I listening to them fully?
You know, curiosity opens thepathways that open up the right
and the left brain together, andwe get the cohesion state,
(52:01):
right?
And so so I would give everyleader to be a curious leader,
you know, like to ask morequestions.
And if you're not sure, closeyour mouth and say, tell me
more.
Yeah.
You know, like that's that'spretty much all of us could use
that in every relationship thatwe have.
Yeah.
And then for the employees ofthe world, you know, for for the
(52:23):
rest of us, I would say thatlearning that that burnout isn't
a failure.
You haven't you haven't failedyour way to a place.
It's feedback.
It's like, wait, I'm I'm beinggiven an opportunity to look
again and say, wait, somethingin that whole situation wasn't
for me.
Yeah.
And either I need to clean upmy side of the road because I've
(52:46):
got some, I've brought some ofmy my shit with me to this.
Yeah.
Or the environment is notworking for me.
Yeah.
You know, and and that can be ascary thing.
I want to name that, or yeah,you know, even the idea that I
might need to change jobs or Imight need to change something
in my life can be pretty scaryfor the nervous system.
(53:06):
So same advice, curiosity.
I wonder.
Yeah.
I wonder what's what my body'strying to give me.
Dr. Leah OH (53:12):
Yeah.
And I really love because Ithink you're right, so many
people see burnout as failure.
Like I have fundamentallyscrewed something up.
Yeah.
Like I am driven this rightinto the wall.
But I I love that idea isfeedback and recognizing that
you know, we're taking away thatblame and that shame and
saying, like, what are welearning?
(53:33):
Getting curious about why we'vegotten here and why we feel
this way.
Because then we can beproductive.
We're not stuck.
Yes.
Yes.
Laura Cardwell (53:43):
Yeah.
Exactly.
Those words.
Yes.
Yes.
Dr. Leah OH (53:48):
Laura, this has been an absolute delight.
I have learned so much.
And it's, I love leadershipcommunication, and it's so just
thrilling for me when I canlearn about different elements
and different fields that areinfusing into it in such
important and innovative, and Ireally think sustainable ways
(54:08):
that we're going to see somecool changes.
So thank you for sharing yourtime and expertise with us.
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for havingme.
Laura Cardwell (54:17):
I'm so grateful.
Dr. Leah OH (54:19):
All right, my friends, that wraps up our
conversation today.
Until next time, communicatewith intention and lead with
purpose.
Looking forward to chattingwith you again soon on the
communicative leader.
Welcome to another episode of The Communicative
Leader.
I'm your host, Dr.
Leah O, and today we're divinginto a topic that's perhaps the
single greatest challenge tosustain strategic leadership:
burnout and the resultingcommunication gap.
Today we're joined by LauraCardwell, a mystic
neuroscientist and co-author ofthe powerful new book, Unstuck
Yourself (00:21):
Thrive Beyond Burnout and Discover Your True Purpose.
In a world demanding more andmore from leaders, the ability
to communicate with purpose isoften lost when a leader feels
depleted and disconnected.
Laura's unique approach blendsthe science of applied
neuroscience with the wisdom ofhuman design and semantics.
This methodology offers atransformative solution and
(00:44):
provides leaders with actionabletools to reconnect with their
authentic selves and criticallylead and communicate from
within.
Her work asserts that thegreatest strategic advantage is
a well-aligned, purposefulleader whose internal clarity
translates directly intoexternal influential
communication.
In today's episode, we're goingto explore how Laura's
(01:08):
strategies can help you movepast overwhelm and stop
communicating from this place ofreaction or stress and instead
foster a culture of sustainablesuccess and genuine
purpose-driven leadership.
If you are ready to unlock yourmost authentic and powerful
leadership voice, this episode'sfor you.
(01:28):
Let's dive in and have somefun.
Laura, welcome to thecommunicative leader.
(01:55):
I'm really excited to spendsome time with you today.
And I know your expertise, youcombine mystic neuroscience with
practical tools for leadership.
And this is so exciting for meto learn more about.
And I'm hoping, you know, toset the stage, you could share a
little bit about your personaljourney into this unique blended
approach and kind of maybe thattime when you started to
(02:17):
realize that that leader's innerstate is inextricably tied to
their outward strategiccommunication.
Laura Cardwell (02:24):
Yes, absolutely.
First of all, thank you forhaving me.
I'm so excited to be here.
And right, so you don't get tothis kind of blend of mystic
neuroscience with practicaltools for leadership without
having to really have done thework, right?
So the journey is long andwinding to have gotten me to a
place where where this is whereI'm leading.
(02:45):
But but ultimately it comesfrom my own story of burnout.
I've I've run a couple ofcompanies in in my past, small
small businesses, and and justgrown them at a pace that was
not sustainable, wasn't true tomy authentic self, and
ultimately ended up in states ofphysical, emotional, mental,
(03:05):
and even spiritual burnout.
And so as I kind of went on myown personal growth, spiritual
growth journey, I began torealize how important it is that
we get the whole mind, body,soul working together.
That often in our world,especially when it comes to our
work in the world, how we're ourcareer, let's say, we're
(03:28):
sacrificing one of those thingsto fulfill one of the others.
And so, and at the heart of allof that, a lot of my background
is in applied neurology, whichis like an energy, it works with
the energy of the brain, notnecessarily the chemistry, which
is what we would be doing if wewere in psychiatry or even the
thoughts, which is morepsychology.
Applied neurology looks at itas an energetic system and how
(03:52):
we get disruptions in the waythat energy runs in the system.
And and so from that, I realizethat's like what we're really
talking about when we say thatis nervous system work.
Dr. Leah OH (04:02):
Okay, I was just thinking that.
I was just thinking, I'm like,I wonder if this is connected to
the nervous system.
Like this has got to be exactlyawesome.
Yeah.
Laura Cardwell (04:11):
It's so funny because sometimes, sometimes I
can really be brilliant andsometimes I can just be dumb.
You know, like it's like Ithink we all have those moments.
Yeah.
And so for me, it took me along time to realize that
working with the energy of thesystem was working with the
nervous system.
To put those two thingstogether took me a while, right?
Like it's like, yeah.
But it is so your nervoussystem is really your brain and
(04:34):
your spine working together.
That is a mind-body connection,right?
And so we we see that in a lotof ancient modalities or even
eastern modalities that they'venever really been separate.
But really, in in our culture,we definitely look at them as
two different things, and we donot use the body as a resource
(04:54):
to help the mind.
Yeah, and so that's really howwe get to this place where
purpose then becomes regulatingthe nervous system helps the
purpose of the soul use the bodyto create, to become the leader
that you're meant to be.
Dr. Leah OH (05:10):
Yes, I love that.
And I I always think too, Ithink I'm not sure why we're so
quick to separate things andcall them mutually exclusive,
especially when they're not.
But I I always find thatthere's so much truth when
things are we recognize howthey're cyclical and
interdependent and connected.
And that's when we finallystart to get, I mean, buzzwords
(05:32):
like the synergy, but that'swhen everything works together.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so Laura, thank you forsharing some of your experiences
and the past that kind of ledyou here.
Because my next question, Iwant to think about that cost of
inauthentic communication.
So, you know, you do work, yourwork focuses on moving leaders
(05:54):
beyond burnout.
And from a communicationperspective, how does leader
depletion, it how does it it notjust affect productivity, but
also compromise the authenticityand clarity of a leader's
messaging?
And what is the cost of thatmisalignment?
Laura Cardwell (06:11):
Absolutely.
It's such a great questionbecause it's really we're
starting to kind of get into theheart of why.
Why bother being apurpose-driven leader?
Why bother healing the burnout,right?
Most of our culture justteaches us to push through, just
to push, right?
And so I think there's a coupledifferent costs.
The first cost is personal,like when we're really out of
(06:34):
alignment, our body, mind, andsoul is gonna show us, right?
We're gonna have pain in ourlives, and that could be
physical pain, it can beemotional pain, it can be mental
pain, it can be spiritual pain,but we're gonna experience
pain.
And so, and then pain thatisn't dealt with personally is
projected.
So then we begin to projectthat pain onto our people around
(06:56):
us, our families, ourcorporations, our businesses,
right?
And and then pain that's beingprojected onto someone now
becomes their responsibility andthey have to take it on.
And so now you've got this likethis cycle that that needs to
first be broken internally,right?
And we need to value slowingdown and saying, Well, why am I
(07:16):
feeling pain?
Yeah, and not just like, what'sthe band-aid I need for the
pain?
But like, let me just like youknow, so so what happens when a
a leader is living in pain ofsome sort and trying to lead
from that pain, thatmisalignment, I'll just, you
know, those are words, but likewhen people say misalignment,
we're like, what does that mean?
And I'm like, it means pain,right?
(07:37):
Like that's what it means.
But when people lead from that,the cost of that is trust.
There's you know, like I can'ttrust you as my leader because
you're projecting your pain onme.
Yeah, right.
And so, and now if I don't havetrust, I don't have buy-in.
I don't have buy-in.
Oh, yeah, you know, yeah, Idon't, I'm not here for you now.
I'm here for me.
(07:57):
And now I'm gonna start to makedecisions that are based on me
and not the the choice to bepart of something that's here.
So and when people stoptrusting and buying into the
corporation or the companythey're working for, they've got
one foot out the door.
They're starting to look forsomething else, right?
Yeah, because you're createyou're now creating a pain point
for them, which is now theirmisalignment.
(08:18):
And if they're listening totheir misalignment, they're
gonna start to make shifts intheir life and you're gonna lose
them.
Yeah, you know, so it's likeyou're gonna, and then you're
gonna have the the cost of thatbecomes a loss of productivity.
I mean, we can see itstatistically in the number, the
bottom line numbers, right?
We we see turnover rates go up,we see productivity go down,
vice versa.
We've seen companies bring in,you know, oh, especially over
(08:41):
the last 10 years, we've seenmajor companies like Microsoft
and Pepsi start to move towardsheart-centered leadership
decisions and strategies forproductivity and longevity in
the workplace.
And and they've had huge, Ithink one of those statistics is
236% increase in productivity.
(09:02):
Wow.
Right?
Like because people are buyingit.
Yep, yeah.
Yeah.
So I think it's a it's got aripple effect that's much bigger
than just like I'm in pain andI'm just gonna push through.
Dr. Leah OH (09:14):
Yeah, exactly.
And when you were talking,especially like losing trust,
losing buy-in, I was thinkingit's it's like a bad game of
dominoes, like you've knockedlike one thing knocks over the
next, and then you realizeyou're in this place where you
have more pain and less folksaround you who are there for the
(09:34):
you know, the collective forthe group as a whole.
Laura Cardwell (09:38):
Yeah.
And now you're just workingwith a group of people in pain.
Dr. Leah OH (09:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Laura Cardwell (09:44):
It's um it's not gonna grow, right?
And what we know, and I thinkwe'll probably talk about this
at some point, is that growthreally comes from internal
resonance and alignment, youknow, that synergy that you
said.
Like that's where growthactually comes from.
So you can't grow if you'reliving in pain.
Yeah.
That's also I mean, pain can bea way to grow if you're
(10:06):
listening.
Dr. Leah OH (10:07):
Yes.
Exactly.
And I love too that idea whenyou're talking about these huge
organizations that are takingkind of that heart-centered
approach to leadership.
I love the modeling, right?
I love what that iscommunicating in terms of uh
value.
And that's what I tellorganizations.
You don't even really have tolike buy in or believe this, but
(10:28):
if you want to see that impacton your bottom line, you want
people who are engaged.
This this is the path.
And I love that so manyorganizations are starting to
finally get on that healthybandwagon.
Laura Cardwell (10:42):
Absolutely.
I don't think it's a choice.
I mean, this might be skippingahead a little bit, but I I do
believe that kind of the future,the future of business, the
future of wellness, the futureof prosperity, yeah, the future
of how we be in the world, itreally is about alignment and
resonance.
And and I think even companiesare waking up to like, oh, I
(11:08):
mean, we see that, right?
We see that with the the wholemillennial generation that was
like, I'm not doing that.
Yeah.
And then everybody's like,whoa, whoa, wait, you're not
just gonna be the cog in mywheel that I want you to be.
Yeah, I'm just gonna judge youback into it.
And they're like, no, no, rightnow they might have been the
pendulum swinging kind of hardto one side, of like, but what
they're saying spiritually islike, I refuse to be in pain in
(11:31):
this company in some kind ofway.
Dr. Leah OH (11:34):
Exactly.
Laura Cardwell (11:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (11:35):
And Gen Z is continuing with that torch and
yes.
Yeah.
Oh, I love this.
What a fun conversation, Laura.
So it's just like my happyplace to be in.
So I want to learn, you talkabout a purpose gap, and I want
to learn more about this.
And I know you in the work thatyou do, you help leaders
reconnect with their authenticselves and lead from within.
(11:58):
So I'm hoping you can help us,you know, how do you define
authentic communication,especially when we have these
high-stakes corporate leadershipenvironments, and and then help
us to think about theself-alignment and how what does
that do for us then?
Laura Cardwell (12:13):
Absolutely.
This is where I have to, youmay have to rein me in.
Okay.
No, no, you go, girl.
I'm gonna I'm gonna encourageyou.
Yeah, this is really kind ofthe heart of my aha moment in my
work was this realization oneday.
I was studying.
(12:33):
I mean, a lot of my backgroundcomes from studying perception,
how we perceive things, youknow, and that really helped me
to begin to understand the howwhat we're thinking becomes this
photon storm of electricalactivity that becomes
neurotransmitters, that sendschemical messages through the
nervous system, lighting upfeelings and sensations in the
(12:57):
body.
And then that becomes that thatliterally delivers a message to
the cell that says, be this, dothis, right?
And so this connection betweenwhat we are thinking ourselves
into being and the meaning weassign our lives around us, and
how we physically become thatand how our environment begins
to reflect that just was it'sjust fascinating when you get
(13:17):
into that realm of study, right?
And so mind-blowing aha momentafter mind-blowing aha moment,
right?
And so, but in that, in thatjourney, in in applied
neurology, there's a lot ofyou're just kind of doing the
thing, you're looking at thepathway, you're tracing the
pathway of where the energy goesduring from different areas of
(13:38):
the brain.
And you and you kind of knowwhat you're doing, you know what
you're doing, you know whereyou are, you know what you're
doing, but you're notnecessarily looking at it like a
system.
Right.
And so one day I was reallydeeply kind of following this.
We have a this pathway calledthe reward pathway, the
motivation pathway.
And it kind of gets passed overa lot when we talk about all
(14:01):
these other more important, likefight or flight, people focused
on other kind of neurologicalpathways when we're looking at
the nervous system.
But I really began to slow downand look like at the at the
primitive level, this pathway isthe one that gets us to go eat,
to find shelter, right?
It's it motivates us.
It gets it, it literallycollects everything and says, go
into the world.
And then as it gets into themore limbic areas or the more
(14:23):
emotional areas of the brain, itbecomes this pathway that's
really about reward and pleasureand play.
And you know, so it's likereward and motivation, and and
so it's like that is that I Igot the signal to go eat, but I
actually went to eat ice creambecause it made me feel good,
right?
Like it's like it's that driveto like go get the ice cream and
(14:44):
fill the bowl.
And so so we get so and that isa dopaminergic pathway.
And we, you know, dopamine issomething we're hearing tossed
around a lot right now.
It's a kind of a hot word.
And dopamine is a motivator,right?
It is it's a motivator, but byitself, it has no real emotional
context.
Okay, and it can keep us inthese loops of external
(15:07):
validation.
Dr. Leah OH (15:08):
Okay.
Laura Cardwell (15:08):
And so when we have leaders and when we have
workers who are looking or beingdriven by external validation,
then it is it is productive butmeaningless.
And so it has no meaning.
We haven't assigned any meaningto it.
It's only when this samepathway travels kind of through
the cortical areas of the brain,the thinking mind, and then
back down into the system thatwe see it gather the
(15:31):
neurochemistry that starts toassign deeper meaning.
And that's the pathway thatsays, but why?
Who am I here to be?
Why am I here?
We will inevitably start toquestion that because it
motivation is really curiosity,right?
We're curious.
And so curiosity then opens themind.
Curiosity opens the mind in somany ways.
(15:52):
And so when we're open, we'remore creative, we're more
innovative, we have more accessto the both the right and the
left brain, and we're asking fordeeper meaning.
And so for me, if you reallywant to be a high-stakes leader,
yeah, you have to be goingbeyond using that dopaminergic
pathway.
It will wear itself out, itwill create either addictions or
(16:15):
it will create burnout, right?
So it's like and for thatlong-term kind of sustainable
being able to let your purposelead your your communication, it
has to have a deeper meaning.
It has to access that deeperpart of the neurology.
So that's we're waking up.
(16:38):
I think we're waking up as aculture to like our purpose is
more important than our be ourdoing.
Yeah, you know, and when when Isay purpose, I always mean it's
who I'm being.
And then from there, why I bethat, and then from there what I
do.
Okay.
So we tend to talk aboutpurpose as our career or what
we're doing, as we're doing, youknow.
Yeah.
But it's actually even and evenif we've evaluated that, where
(17:01):
we say why, right?
So it's the same pathway, yeah,right?
We the dopamine to the seeking,but really believe below that,
but in the depth of it, when itwe really go in, purpose is
about am I being who I was, I'mhere to be.
Yeah.
Right.
Am I in alignment with thattruth?
Yeah.
And then am I communicatingfrom that place?
Dr. Leah OH (17:19):
Yeah, exactly.
And well, I love the learningthe physiolog physiology of
that, of purpose and the thatdeeper meaning making.
And it is helpful, you know, asa society that's wired for, I
think, these like quick dopaminehits and this external
(17:39):
validation, it becomes a loteasier to see why so many people
get stuck on that track and whyit's so hard to get off of.
Laura Cardwell (17:50):
Yes.
Yeah.
I tell people all the time, youknow, getting the external
validations at work is likeeating sugar.
Yes.
Yeah.
Right?
You're getting, you're getting,yeah, every time somebody says,
good job, you know, you'regetting that little, but it is
finite.
You cannot sustain it.
Dr. Leah OH (18:08):
Yeah.
Laura Cardwell (18:08):
Right.
The the real joy has to comefrom an internalized alignment,
not an externalized success.
Dr. Leah OH (18:14):
Yes, yes.
Beautifully stated, Laura.
So let's keep thinking aboutleaders.
And you know that many of ourmost successful leaders and
organizations and industries,they're subject matter experts,
right?
They've gotten here becausethey they know they can talk the
talk, they can walk the walk,but they struggle to transition
(18:37):
from communicating what theyknow to kind of who they are, or
even the ability to connectthese in meaningful ways.
So I'm wondering in the thework that you do, what do you
see as these big internalbarriers or these self-imposed
old narratives that prevent ourleaders from speaking their true
purpose?
Laura Cardwell (18:58):
Oh, I mean, do we have all day to talk about
the narratives?
Right.
Because it's like, think abouthow many people end up in a
leadership position in whichthey now feel the imposter
syndrome of I don't deserve tobe here.
Yeah.
That's the first one, right?
Like it, you know, so much ofleadership is based in
self-worth and self-value.
And so if we're not, if wedon't believe we're worth the
(19:22):
position that we're in, thenthen we're gonna project pain
because we're we're in pain,right?
And so we're gonna project thatinsecurity onto our team.
We're gonna, we're gonna lookfor other people to validate us
instead of knowing that we'revalid, we're valuable just
because we're in that role,right?
So so it starts with everysingle narrative, and we don't
have to all day to list why weall have the narrative.
(19:43):
And it is true alsostatistically that women are
more likely to experience theimposter syndrome as they move
up in leadership roles than menare, right?
Like, because I mean, that'sjust a statistic that still just
goes with all the other they'renot being valued often the
same, right?
So it's like we can, you know,those things are true, but I
(20:04):
think I think so.
It starts with being willing toevaluate your own story about
your own worth.
Do I believe I'm I'm worth it?
I also want to just take asecond and and say here that I
believe that every single humanis a leader.
It's not, you know, we callthem titled leaders, right?
When they finally when they'rein a role in a company that's
(20:27):
deemed a leader, we're lookingat things from like a
hierarchical perspective.
But when we look at things onthe on the full grid and not
just in one ladder order,everyone is here to lead and
we're leading in different ways.
You know, we lead from thefront, we lead from the sides,
we lead from the back, we leadin all sorts of you know,
support is leadership, empathyis leadership, you know.
(20:50):
So it's like so all of us thenare being asked to look at our
story of self-worth andself-value, right?
Because if I'm in a supportrole in a company, do I value
myself in the support role?
And am I being valued?
Because if I don't value me, noone else can value me.
So I need to look at mynarrative around value.
(21:10):
I I find that we we wrap thatconversation up in lots of
different words.
We can look at it from lots ofdifferent angles, but when we
really peel away the layers, italmost always comes down to
self-worth.
Dr. Leah OH (21:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I can see that.
And it's it's so challenging,right?
Like, and especially you bringup women in leadership
positions, and we think aboutsocialization and then I mean
the literal narratives we hearon television, the headlines.
And when you were talking, itmade me think so way back in
(21:43):
season one of this podcast, andI was just kind of finding my
footing.
I even did this episode all onmy own, and it was about
imposter syndrome.
And even, I think it's like sixyears later, it's still in my
top five most downloaded.
I was my own guest.
I was just like presentingliterature on it, you know.
(22:03):
And and so, yeah, I really seehow that that is one that kind
of is this weight that continuesto kind of pull people down and
be a hard one to escape from.
Laura Cardwell (22:17):
It's so hard to deal with.
I mean, I just want to saythere, like when we talk like
this, it makes it sound likeit's easy to just name imposter
syndrome.
Like it's like, yeah, but it'sso much deeper than that.
Like you said, it's it's it'sin the energy of the world we're
born into.
It's not even just thenarratives we're told, it's it's
reprogramming.
(22:37):
And that is why it's soimportant to get the mind, body,
emotional system all on thesame page.
Because if you're just doingthe affirmations like, I am
worthy, I'm worthy, that's onlyworking in the mental field.
If your nervous system doesn'tbelieve that, you're still
radiating a different story.
Yeah.
It's like it's deeper than justthe mindset.
Dr. Leah OH (22:59):
Yeah.
And I'm wondering if this nextquestion will get to that
alignment.
Um, and if not, maybe we cancircle back to that.
But I'm thinking about thestrategic voice and thinking
about your methodology.
And I know you bring appliedneuroscience, human design, and
somatics.
And I'm wondering how youintegrate these principles to
help leaders physically,mentally, spiritually create
(23:23):
that strategic voice.
And I think most important,that is sustainable, right?
And certainly I think when wehave all those, we can assume
it's kind of rooted in purpose.
But how do you Laura, like,what does that work look like?
How do we start to integratethose so that we really have
that inner power, right?
And that inner peace and thatsource of energy that continues
(23:47):
to give, instead of just, likeyou said, waiting for the
external like hits of sugar inthe office and the good jobs and
well done.
Laura Cardwell (23:57):
I mean, this is like first of all, it starts
with I got here because this ismy journey.
I didn't read something in abook, go to school, learn it,
and decide I was going to teacheverybody how to do it.
Yeah.
You know, like I got herebecause this has been my journey
to like trying to heal thingsand realizing I only had a piece
of the puzzle.
And so I had this very long andvaried background.
(24:20):
You know, I was an art jeweler.
Actually, the the first time Iburnt out, I was an art jeweler
for about eight years and I grewmy company too fast.
I had too many accounts and Icouldn't make the jewelry
necessary in the time frame.
And I just ended up really infetal position, you know, just
like I just could not function.
It really deep states ofburnout.
(24:40):
And it wasn't because I didn'thave the passion or the love.
Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (24:43):
Yeah.
Laura Cardwell (24:44):
Have the self-worth to tell people no.
Dr. Leah OH (24:47):
Yeah.
Laura Cardwell (24:47):
Right.
So, so in the so as I start tokind of talk about these things,
this has been on my personaljourney back to health from
being really, and I think healthis a mind-body-soul thing.
It's not just one, you know.
And so I started off workingwith, like I said, the nervous
system and the mental field ofwhat's going on and really kind
(25:08):
of understanding how blocks inthe in the energy of the spine
and the brain created painpoints mentally and emotionally
and physically for people.
And I really, I really lovedthat work, like helping people
kind of move that, see differentthings, and starting to ask the
right question at the righttime to get that energy to move
(25:29):
in a different way.
Perspective can shift energy inreally big ways.
And that's where we bring inkind of coaching.
Coaches, coaches don't give youanswers, they ask you
questions, right?
And and it gets you in thatplace.
And so, but what I found wasthat no matter what, it was
still kind of missing this likethis deeper, but who am I here
to be?
Dr. Leah OH (25:49):
Who am I here to be?
Laura Cardwell (25:51):
And that's where human design danced around me
for a long time.
But human design, if if forthose people that don't know,
it's like a personality quiz,you know, like a Myers Briggs,
only it's a it's what we call atimestamp.
So based on your birthday.
What I like about things thatare based on your birthday is it
takes away all of your story.
(26:13):
You cannot use your filters tofill it out, right?
Like and so what we get is areally accurate imprint of what
those filters, those perceptionsmight be.
And then we can see, like, oh,that's the way I perceive the
world.
And so therefore, this is theway my brain thinks, this is the
way my, you know, and it startsto fill in some of that, that,
(26:36):
that subtle body question thatwe have of like, who am I here
to be?
Human design is is notnecessarily meant to be this map
to like you're this, this, andthis, and these are the boxes
you're meant to live in.
It's more a guide to how you bein the world energetically.
Okay.
And it tells you, like, whatwho am I here?
Who am I here to be first?
What am I radiating from theinside of me?
(26:57):
But then how am I meant to bein relationship with other
people?
And that's where it reallytakes it one step beyond a
personality quiz, which isgenerally focused on just me.
This is more about me inrelationship to other.
And then once I'm that, humandesign really begins to open up
and answer, and also how am Imeant to serve?
And that is where purposereally comes in.
(27:18):
Service is really our our soulleadership, right?
Like the thing I'm here to giveback in a bigger way.
And so, but to incorporate allof those things together, we
need the body to get online.
Yep.
And that's where somatics comein, right?
So our physical bodies are justone constant signal to the
(27:40):
brain.
We actually have moreinformation coming from the gut
and the heart into the brainthan we have from the brain
going to the body.
Oh, how interesting.
Right.
And we don't think about itthat way, right?
We think about brain downbecause we think hierarchy
because that's what we've beentrained to think.
So, synergy, though, is thatthere's actually way more
information coming the other wayaround, right?
So we get this like flow up anddown.
(28:02):
And if we're not listening tothe body, now I want to say this
because right now there's thishot topic of like my body says
you're not safe for me.
Right.
Like, and and my I'm listeningto my body and it says this
isn't safe and you need tochange that, and this isn't safe
and you need to change that.
And I just want to name thatthat's a conversation that's
going around when we first startlistening to our body, we
(28:24):
realize we might not feel heardor valued or safe in certain
situations.
And that does create some needfor change.
But if you're asking someoneelse to change to make it
better, that's that's not whatit's about, right?
Like this is the body's wisdomfor us.
And so it might be that thatperson's not in alignment with
(28:45):
you, that job is not inalignment with you, that
situation's not in alignmentwith you.
But your work is to learn howto regulate your own nervous
system.
And this is the part of theconversation that I think has
been left out.
Yes.
We've somehow left it out,right?
Like it's like every it we'vealmost turned.
There's a really great bookcalled The Coddling of the
(29:06):
American Mind.
Okay.
And they kind of name the threethings that are going on in
this younger generation that arebecoming the challenge that
happens when we, you know, likewhat they call coddling.
And one of them is that we havethis whole generation, this Gen
X, Gen Z, I mean the Gen Z andthe millennial kind of where
they're looking for the externalenvironment to be safe.
(29:27):
Yes.
Instead of learning, no one'staught them how to create safety
in their own nervous system.
And so that's really what thisblend of applied neuroscience
and human design and somatics isreally doing is it's teaching
people how to create safety intheir own system and then to
lead from that safety.
Yes.
That that knowing, that innerknowing.
(29:48):
Once we feel safe to be whowe're meant to be, we can be it.
Dr. Leah OH (29:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I love so much about that,Laura.
So I love it, and I I do thinkI think your work is helping us
to uh Kind of formulate thatanswer to that question that a
lot of people have been like,okay, I know that I need to
learn how to better regulatethis, but how?
Like what happens next?
What are those steps?
(30:12):
And it's funny too, and you'retalking about these younger
generations.
So some of my peer-reviewedmost recent work, I've done some
looking at when millennialstransitioned in, and most
recently with Gen Z.
And essentially it is folkswho've been in organizations for
a while being like, why do theyexpect us to change everything
for them?
(30:32):
We can't do this.
And then these millennials andGen Zers who are like, why
aren't they changing thesethings?
People are used to peoplechange when we tell them this
doesn't feel right, this doesn'tfeel good.
And that's where we're seeingthese like continued kind of
clashes.
So it's, I was smiling becauseI I always, you know, you can
see how these things arehappening.
(30:54):
You're seeing what's going onin individuals, and then I'm
looking at them in these bigdata samples, these large cohort
groups, and we're seeing it inaction.
Laura Cardwell (31:06):
Absolutely.
I do think I think on a on agrand scale, we're moving from
that hierarchy, right?
Which has been kind ofcontrolled down and not in a bad
way.
I think it just was what waswas.
Yeah.
And and I think it's not on onaccident.
I think it is part of our humangrowth that we're at a place in
(31:29):
humanity where we have to stopand say, wait, what is emotional
regulation and why are we notteaching that?
What is nervous system safetyand why are we not teaching how
to access that?
What is purpose and why are wenot leading with that?
I think we are, these areglobal questions that are being
that, you know, I always believethat there's the the interface
(31:50):
of my personal growth.
I have to do the workinternally, but we are also kind
of looking at thingsgenerationally, we're looking at
things, there's archetypes uponarchetypes upon archetype,
yeah, right.
And then there's the collectiveexperience, and that's where
archetypes actually come from.
And so at that collectivelevel, we're at a place in human
(32:10):
history where we're saying, oh,wait, control is not a way
forward, fear is not a wayforward.
My that's not the way.
And so we have these, you know,we can look at those in
microcosms and look at like howthat's showing up in
generations, but it's but what'sbubbling up is that we've we
have, you know, I'm almost 50.
(32:32):
The generation before me hadvery little control.
There was not, there was not awhole lot of, and there was very
little emotional awareness,very little.
I mean, they had it forthemselves, but you didn't bring
that into the world.
No, so like my generation isthis bridging generation of
okay, I've been told that I needto just get in line and do what
(32:54):
I'm supposed to do, but I'mhaving all these emotions, and
how do I figure that out?
And our leadership role, Ibelieve, our leadership role as
a generation in every role inwhich we are, yeah, is to teach
the younger generations how toemotionally regulate.
Yes.
Dr. Leah OH (33:10):
Yeah.
It's part of our role.
What a gift.
And I think this next questionkind of helps us to start
thinking about that in ways.
I know you have a new bookcoming out, and I'm so excited
about it.
And I wonder if we could thinkabout how to transform being
overwhelmed into clarity.
And I know in in your book youyou kind of talk about this
(33:32):
practical step-by-step strategyfor leaders to take those
moments of internal when they'reoverwhelmed or that decision
decision fatigue.
And then how do we get unstuck?
How do we translate that intointernal clarity and you know,
allowing that to shine throughin our messaging then in our our
relationships with others?
(33:53):
I mean, yes, yes.
Laura Cardwell (33:56):
So, and this is the heart of the book, right?
Is that it's not enough just toknow things.
We have to be different.
Yeah.
And in order to be different,we need tools, right?
We need we cannot just like wecannot think ourselves to
different.
We won't change.
Right.
Often our thoughts are based invery old programming.
Yeah.
And so part of the work isdeprogramming what what that
(34:18):
older messaging is.
And so in the book, we give thethe last part of the book, we
really give the full what wecall the integrative somatic
experience, okay, which can bebroken down into many practical
steps.
But the first one, the veryfirst one, is to breathe.
And it's so funny, Leah,because so many people like if
(34:42):
we we know this, we wescientifically we know what
breath does for us, right?
We we know this, but if you askpeople, it's when I do these
these talks or these workshops,and I'm like, okay, how many
people have heard that yourbreath can help regulate your
nervous system?
And almost everybody raisestheir hand.
And then I say, keep your handup if you do that when you need
it.
And only like one hand.
(35:02):
Yeah, it's just like becauseit's hard for us to remember to
use the tool in the moment.
That's because that's what areactive brain does.
It takes us out of our what Icall our responsible mind, which
is the one that's able torespond, and it takes us into
reactive mind, which is wayfaster.
And and our reactive mind isoften based in primitive fears
(35:25):
and fight or flight and nervoussystem dysregulation.
So practically, you know, inthe book, we give like some
different examples of some waysyou can kind of change the
neurology in the moment.
That like if you have, we westart with if you if you don't,
if you can't get away and youneed to handle it right now in
the boardroom.
(35:45):
Yeah, how do you belly breathe?
Three big full box breaths tolike before you open your mouth.
It's amazing breath.
I mean, we could talk aboutbreath in it for a whole
episode, you know, and what itdoes to the system, but what it
does to the brain is it itaccesses creativity.
Oh, and creativity gives usclarity.
(36:06):
And so there's a directcorrelation between oxygen in
the brain, our ability torespond, and our ability to
answer with clarity from ourbreath.
Now that actually goes all theway back to Chinese medicine and
the and the basis of Chinesemedicine, there's there's five
elements, and the element ofmetal is the lung energy, and
(36:30):
the element of the lung and themetal energy is clarity and
understanding from a higherself, right?
So, like this is not somethingthat's new to us, right?
That's what I'm saying there isthat we can trace that back.
And so I tell people if youonly have three seconds to
answer the question, use thosethree seconds to breathe.
Yeah, and then the second thingis to breathe from the body and
(36:53):
not your mind.
So don't, you know, likeliterally drop into get into the
lowest part of your body youcan feel, whatever that is, and
breathe from there becauseyou're reconnecting then the
mind-body connection.
Yeah, and you can access thewisdom of the body.
We tend to feel like a culture,and I am very guilty of this
(37:13):
that feels a pressure to answerfrom our minds to be certain, to
know, to but but wisdom now Imean this is knowledge, right?
What we've got in our brain,but wisdom comes from the body,
yeah.
So a few deep breaths andconnecting to the body, and it's
amazing what comes out yourmouth, right?
Like it's like, oh my gosh,that's the answer, right?
Like, so and then if you needmore, if you have a little more
(37:35):
time, the book does give yousome some deeper things where
you can really move the emotionthat's in the way if that's
what's going on.
But always the first thing, thestep-by-step, the first thing
is always breath.
Dr. Leah OH (37:47):
Awesome.
Yeah, right.
And something we can alwaysaccess, but that we usually tend
to forget.
But if we're thinking about it,I like that.
I always love the uh uh likethe teaching, leadership,
communication, you know, thattool analogy and being like we
eventually you want to get to adeeper where it's it's you know
part of your lens and your view.
(38:09):
But in the beginning, if we arerecognizing like I need help
regulating, then pulling outthat breathing tool and thinking
about that is the way it'sgonna set you up to be more
successful.
Laura Cardwell (38:22):
Right.
And for right now, breathing isfree.
Yeah, and yeah, and you know,like it's like you have access
to it in the moment.
It doesn't require that youremove yourself, you have other
tools, you know.
It's like the other thing thatI have found that's really
important is is can I connect tosomeone?
You know, like clarity cannotcome from chaos.
I mean, clarity does come fromchaos when it comes from wisdom
(38:44):
and not knowledge, but yeah,it's like sometimes I tell
people like connect to theirself first and then look up and
connect to someone.
Right often when we're tryingto get the answer from our own
craziness, yeah, we can't we weneed to co-regulate sometimes.
So find someone who's makingeye contact with you and hold it
(39:05):
for a second.
Yeah, it's amazing whatconnection can do to open up
energetic space.
Dr. Leah OH (39:10):
Oh, a hundred percent.
Yeah, that's something Ilearned.
I have an anxious kiddo, and Ione of the best things that I
learned was how communicativenervous systems are.
And so just being able tomaintain my own regulation and
calm in that moment would soquickly calm everything down for
(39:32):
that little.
Laura Cardwell (39:33):
Yeah.
It's I mean, we could talkabout the science of
co-regulation and what thatactually means for a long time,
but it is true we are energeticbeings in interaction with other
energetic beings, and ourenergy affects other people and
their energy affects us.
So it is true, yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (39:51):
Like, yes.
So that makes me think incommunication.
We have a uh theory emotionalcontagion, right?
And it's it's explaining thatjust in different words, but it
works both ways, yeah.
Laura Cardwell (40:05):
Like you can have an emotional contagion that
is someone who's angry in anoffice and everybody is dancing
around that person and and feelsthe anger, but you can also
have someone who's just a littledrop of sunshine and everyone
feels that, right?
It does work both ways, yeah,exactly.
Dr. Leah OH (40:22):
So let's let's talk about skepticism.
Because I imagine sometimes, Imean, even as a leadership
communication scholar, I'll havepeople, especially the old
guard who will be skeptical ofit.
So I'm wondering, Laura, youknow, when you're shifting to
this purpose-driven, authenticleadership style, I think that
(40:43):
it's often, not often, it can bemischaracterized as soft in
some traditional businessenvironments.
So I'm wondering how canleaders effectively communicate,
you know, in bottom linebenefit terms, how you're
unstuck, unstuck yourself aspart of your book title, how
this approach can lead to securebuy-in and and motivate those
(41:06):
around them.
Laura Cardwell (41:07):
Yeah.
I mean, I have a really, ittook me a long time to really
know this about myself, but Ihave a really logical brain.
And I always really identifiedmyself as kind of the more
creative because I was raised ina house of of deeply skeptical
scientific minds.
Okay.
And so yeah, compared to them,I was creative, right?
(41:28):
Like it was like they, youknow, like they're incredibly uh
high-producing, amazing humans,right?
So it's I have an amazingfamily, but it took me a long
time to understand that my Iactually part of my human design
is to be skeptical.
And that skepticism serves mycuriosity so that I can build
(41:50):
those bridges.
So, one of the things I oftenfind myself is in a room full of
the old guard skepticism, youknow, like, and how do we
communicate how important thisnew type of leadership to them?
It's to them, it is like a newparadigm of leadership.
There's you know, it's it'sit's often foreign, right?
And so, and it hasn't workedfor them in the past.
I want to say that like theycan list out why soft leadership
(42:13):
has not worked for them and ithasn't gotten the results.
And so I try and help themunderstand that emotional
intelligence is not the samething as soft leadership.
Soft leadership is noboundaries, soft leadership is
no no leadership, right?
Emotion leading with emotionalintelligence is is different
than just not leading.
Yeah, and that's what they'vecorrelated often is that to lead
(42:36):
with emotional intelligencemeans I can't lead.
I can't I can't tell peoplewhat to do.
And I'm like, you can tellpeople what to do, but you're
gonna tell people what to dofrom a more informed and a more
neurologically efficient place.
Yeah, right.
So if you are regulated andleading and communicating from
authenticity, and that's what Ioften tell them is it's for
(42:57):
them, it's not about make makingeverybody else be different.
Yeah, it's about leading fromtheir authenticity.
Once they do that, that'sregulating their emotional
system, they're co-regulatingthe people in the room to their
authenticity, and then thosepeople want to do what you want
them to do versus trying tocontrol them into doing it.
Yeah, right.
(43:18):
Like, and that's inefficientand often doesn't work.
And then you you le you losepeople, you know, and then I I
remind them that to be regulatedin your nervous system is
efficiency, right?
Like that's the brain is alwaystrying to be efficient, yeah.
And so an efficient, regulatedleader is more creative, they're
(43:39):
more innovative, they makebetter decisions, they have they
retain their client, theirtheir people in their company
longer, they have long-termbuy-in from their, you know,
they don't just expect people tocommit, they create an
environment in which people wantto commit.
Yeah, and that's different.
And so yeah, and that thatultimately will save their
(44:00):
organization.
Like, then we put it intostatistics, right?
Like it saves money, it createsbetter productivity, it reduces
turnover, it increasesengagement, right?
Like the data backs authenticleadership much more than it
backs controlling leadership,which the old guard has only
ever learned how to controltheir way into leadership.
(44:22):
And it's not their fault, it'swhat they were modeled.
Dr. Leah OH (44:25):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, and and I like I like toothat you raise up that, you
know, 10, 15, 20 years ago, anauthentic approach probably
would have fallen flat, or youwould have had to find the the
exact right environment for thisto thrive.
And I think that's a reallyhelpful way of removing any
(44:48):
potential blame or shame andrecognizing that things have
changed.
And you have this option tochange with it, but it's likely
to feel a lot better and likeauthentic in the in the title,
right?
It says it all there.
Laura Cardwell (45:02):
And they need to be validated in their what
they've created.
You know, we we're we'recurrently in a culture that's
fairly shaming offense.
Yes, yep.
And so they're they're fairlydefensive right now, and they
yeah, and I get it, right?
Like there's it feels likethey're being devalued and and
instead of appreciated, but needto change.
(45:24):
And if you can appreciate whatthey've created and who they
are, then they're willing, youknow, like everybody's willing
to make changes when they'refeeling appreciated.
Look at every single kind of,but we're we've we're in a
dangerous place of shaming andblaming.
And I don't I don't thinkthat's leadership.
Dr. Leah OH (45:41):
No, nope, nope, I agree, couldn't agree more.
Yeah.
So let's look at sustainablesuccess again.
Because I think that in a lotof the conversations I've had,
I've you know, talked to people,I've I've tried this and I
worked for a little bit or I'vedone this for a little bit, but
I couldn't, I couldn't sustainit.
I couldn't integrate it into,you know, that daily repertoire.
(46:03):
So, in your experience, Laura,how does communication, when
it's deeply rooted in purposeand transparency, how does that
foster a culture of trust,especially when that leader is
communicating strategy in adifferent way?
Laura Cardwell (46:19):
Yeah.
I think this is one of theplaces where human design really
plays out in the when when webring human design into the
culture, to the teams, humandesign is really about the
ecosystem of humans and how weinteract.
Yeah.
And so when we first learn whoI'm meant to be and how I
function best in the world, andI really do the internal work to
(46:42):
align with that, and that canbe hard.
I'm not devaluing the processof that.
That can be hard.
But what it what it happensenergetically is we we become
what I call resonant, a resonantleader, meaning I'm really in
alignment with my mind, body,and soul are all in alignment,
and I become a resonant leader,and a resonant leader is
(47:02):
magnetic.
It it's current, it's thatcharisma, right?
We feel it, we know it, we'reattracted to it.
And so, in this journey, thento creating teams or sustainable
cultures or sustainablesuccess, they don't, they're not
looking for perfection, they'relooking for congruence.
We're looking for everyonebeing in their resonant
(47:26):
leadership.
If everyone in the room is intheir resonant leadership, what
happens energetically is we areamplifying something much bigger
than something much bigger thaneven the sum of its parts.
Yeah.
Right.
It's like there's anamplification that comes when we
trust that each person'sauthenticity is is valuable, you
(47:51):
know.
And what happens right now isthat we can often not feel like
that if that person isn't actingexactly the way that I think
they should, then it won't work.
Right.
Like, but if we trust thatdiversity in that way, like
people are meant to bedifferent, yeah.
And if we allow that thatdifference in the way they need
to be, the way they need to showup, the way that even like when
(48:13):
we really dive into humandesign, some people aren't meant
to work nine to five.
Yeah, what happens if we trustthem to work based on their
energy flow, yeah, then they areway more productive, they bring
way more to the table.
You know, like so it's likethere's there's a it's a trust
that flows both ways.
Yes.
And if you can really learn totrust, and we are not a culture
(48:38):
that learns to trust veryeasily, right?
Like it's like no trust isn'ttrained in us.
And I think that goes back tolike we have so many, so many of
us were even born into likelet's just say religions that
taught us like trust was outsideof us.
We needed to trust in somethingout there, you know.
So it's like learning to trustcan feel foreign, you know, and
(48:59):
then trusting myself first andthen outward.
So sustainable success happensthrough this internal work
towards towards alignment, whichcreates resonance, which
creates more charisma, yeah, andthen amplifies a team in a way
that's like it.
I say that's where the magichappens because you cannot even
(49:21):
now you're into the realm ofpossibility and you cannot even
think your way to where thatteam is going.
Yeah, it's even you can't evenput on your vision board how
great that team might be.
Yeah, you know, it's just itshocks you.
So so yeah, it's it's that.
It's and and trust comes fromthe safety of knowing I am safe
in me and you are safe in you,and it's safe for you to be you,
(49:41):
and it's safe for me to be me.
And we've relearned how to tonavigate relationship from that
place, and that requiresemotional regulation and being
willing to have hardconversations, yeah, and being
willing to stay in ourauthenticity and being willing
to stay curious, and you know,and those are just things that
we're we're just relearning.
We've known them, they're inthere, but we're relearning them
(50:03):
in business and leadership.
Exactly.
Dr. Leah OH (50:06):
That's what I always think.
I'm like, those are hard thingsfor sure, but I think it's also
important to raise up likestaying in an inauthentic place
or being in an organizationwhere we don't trust and we
don't have buy-in.
That's a really hard place anda hard thing too.
So it's kind of like choose,choose your hard.
And one's gonna come with a lotmore benefits than than the
(50:29):
other.
Laura Cardwell (50:30):
Yeah, yeah, one's gonna probably lead to
burnout somewhere.
Dr. Leah OH (50:33):
Yeah, exactly.
Laura Cardwell (50:35):
Exactly.
You can't carry those.
You we say it's wearing masks,you know, you can't wear the
masks for for forever.
Dr. Leah OH (50:42):
Yeah, exactly.
Laura Cardwell (50:44):
They have a cost, yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (50:46):
So, Laura, I have two final questions for you.
And these are interconnected.
This is way we end all of ourepisodes of the communicative
leader.
So the first part is, you know,what is the advice, the
challenge, the tip for ourtitled leaders out there?
And then the second part of thequestion is, you know, what do
(51:06):
you want to leave employees ofall ranks across all industries
in terms of that tip challengerpiece of advice related to, you
know, leadership communication?
Laura Cardwell (51:17):
Absolutely.
So starting with the titledleaders, yeah.
You know, my when when whenasked this kind of question, it
took it took me a while to kindof hone in on what how I wanted
to answer that question, becausethere's so much you want to
leave a leader with, right?
But I have learned that if Icould just give one piece of
advice, it's curiosity.
It's like curiosity, if I juststop and get curious about how
(51:41):
I'm feeling, about how they'refeeling, about what's going on,
about am I in alignment?
Am I about to say somethingfrom my true self, my or from
from a mask that I'm wearing?
Am I listening to them fully?
You know, curiosity opens thepathways that open up the right
and the left brain together, andwe get the cohesion state,
(52:01):
right?
And so so I would give everyleader to be a curious leader,
you know, like to ask morequestions.
And if you're not sure, closeyour mouth and say, tell me
more.
Yeah.
You know, like that's that'spretty much all of us could use
that in every relationship thatwe have.
Yeah.
And then for the employees ofthe world, you know, for for the
(52:23):
rest of us, I would say thatlearning that that burnout isn't
a failure.
You haven't you haven't failedyour way to a place.
It's feedback.
It's like, wait, I'm I'm beinggiven an opportunity to look
again and say, wait, somethingin that whole situation wasn't
for me.
Yeah.
And either I need to clean upmy side of the road because I've
(52:46):
got some, I've brought some ofmy my shit with me to this.
Yeah.
Or the environment is notworking for me.
Yeah.
You know, and and that can be ascary thing.
I want to name that, or yeah,you know, even the idea that I
might need to change jobs or Imight need to change something
in my life can be pretty scaryfor the nervous system.
(53:06):
So same advice, curiosity.
I wonder.
Yeah.
I wonder what's what my body'strying to give me.
Dr. Leah OH (53:12):
Yeah.
And I really love because Ithink you're right, so many
people see burnout as failure.
Like I have fundamentallyscrewed something up.
Yeah.
Like I am driven this rightinto the wall.
But I I love that idea isfeedback and recognizing that
you know, we're taking away thatblame and that shame and
saying, like, what are welearning?
(53:33):
Getting curious about why we'vegotten here and why we feel
this way.
Because then we can beproductive.
We're not stuck.
Yes.
Yes.
Laura Cardwell (53:43):
Yeah.
Exactly.
Those words.
Yes.
Yes.
Dr. Leah OH (53:48):
Laura, this has been an absolute delight.
I have learned so much.
And it's, I love leadershipcommunication, and it's so just
thrilling for me when I canlearn about different elements
and different fields that areinfusing into it in such
important and innovative, and Ireally think sustainable ways
(54:08):
that we're going to see somecool changes.
So thank you for sharing yourtime and expertise with us.
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for havingme.
Laura Cardwell (54:17):
I'm so grateful.
Dr. Leah OH (54:19):
All right, my friends, that wraps up our
conversation today.
Until next time, communicatewith intention and lead with
purpose.
Looking forward to chattingwith you again soon on the
communicative leader.
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