This episode dives into the profound intersection of spirituality and business, with Bryan May sharing his journey from personal tragedy to professional triumph. Listeners gain insights into how integrating spiritual principles into leadership can foster authenticity, resilience, and greater success while navigating the complexities of life and work.
• Brian’s background and how it shaped his views
• Defining spirituality in the context of business
• The importance of self-reflection and authenticity in leadership
• Embracing flexibility in business strategies
• Reframing challenges as opportunities for growth
• Practical strategies for integrating spirituality into professional life
• Tips for leaders on fostering loyalty and vision
• Advice for employees on aligning personal and organizational goals
• Emphasizing the need for mentorship and communication
• Encouraging a holistic approach to personal and professional development
Hey leader! Thanks for listening. For more leadership communication tips, check out https://www.thecommunicativeleader.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Leah OH (00:00):
Bryan May joins us on the Communicative Leader.
Bryan is a highly accomplishedentrepreneur, business
strategist and spiritual guide,and he has spent years merging
the worlds of spirituality andbusiness to drive exceptional
results.
Bryan has a proven track recordof conducting multi-million
dollar transactions and sellinghundreds of homes, bringing with
(00:20):
him a really unique perspectiveto the table.
Bringing with him a reallyunique perspective to the table,
Bryan helps individuals andorganizations unlock their full
potential by integratingspirituality into their
professional growth, and todayhe shares practical wisdom and
inspiring stories with us.
Let's dive in.
Hello and welcome to theCommunicative Leader hosted by
(00:43):
me, Dr.
Leah Omilion- Hodges.
My friends call me Dr O.
I'm a professor ofcommunication and a leadership
communication expert.
On the Communicative Leader,we're working to make your work
life what you want it to be.
Well, brian, thank you so muchfor joining us today on the
(01:03):
Communicative Leader.
We're really excited to haveyou and to learn more about your
unique perspective and, beforewe dive into these questions, I
was hoping you could share alittle bit of your background,
of what led you to where you aretoday.
Bryan May (01:17):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So.
I am from New York, grew up onLong Island, had a pretty middle
class lifestyle and I quicklybecame infatuated with real
estate, got very heavily, boughtmy first house at 21.
And after, as I was in collegeat Hofstra, I started buying
(01:39):
rentals and it kind of justspinned off from there,
snowballed into other things,started getting my real estate
license and I ended up, you know, fast forward, opening up my
own brokerage.
I ended up selling, you know,more than 300 houses and just
doing a lot of business,consulting a lot of business,
(01:59):
and then later on I had atragedy in my life and so I lost
my, my wife.
My wife passed away and so nowI am engaged to someone else and
, uh, we're doing like the BradyBunch thing.
She has a daughter, I have afive-year-old son, and so it's
just the spiritual path, thebusiness path and kind of living
(02:23):
life and dealing with with bigconcepts, dealing with big
issues.
that are really important right,so it's a mixture.
Dr. Leah OH (02:30):
Yeah, that is so much to navigate in such a short
period as well.
You know and I think the olderI get, the more I learn that you
know to just always expect theunexpected.
You just can't plan foreverything, even though we may
try really hard to.
Bryan May (02:50):
Yeah, I mean, I think that you know diving into, like
the spirituality aspect.
It's important to prepare andit's important to have a plan,
but it's also important tounderstand that most likely,
that plan isn't going to go theway you want.
And I think of like Noah's Ark.
Right, Like you know, you haveto build the ark, you have to
(03:12):
process, but there's going to bea lot of waves in the middle.
Dr. Leah OH (03:17):
Yeah, yeah, I really I really liked that
illustration.
So to your spirituality, canyou kind of walk us through to
you how you kind of define andthink of spirituality?
Bryan May (03:28):
Oh, absolutely so.
I think that it's a personalthing.
I think that everyone can lookat it their own way.
The way I look at it is life isa mirror.
So you know, when I say life isa mirror, it's like you have to
look at yourself and just cometo accept and we're all on
different levels.
I think the biggest thing I'velearned is life is not an on and
(03:51):
off switch, it's not a lightswitch, it's a dimmer, it's a
big spectrum.
And so you know, like looking atBible stories or any religious
stories, you're reading themover and over again every year,
right?
Or any religious stories,you're reading them over and
over again every year, right?
Because as you get older, likeyou mentioned just a minute ago,
it means more and more to you.
So a lot of it is life as amare, really going inward and
(04:18):
seeing what's going on, becausea lot of what's going on
externally is just a response towhat's going on internally, and
so sometimes, when you seesynchronicities or you see
things going on in your lifethat are external, basically
asking yourself like what, whatis, why is this happening and
and what can I do about it,instead of like, okay, this is
(04:39):
happening to me?
No, it's happening for me.
I still have control over it.
Dr. Leah OH (04:43):
Yeah, yeah, me, no, it's happening for me.
I still have control over it.
Yeah, yeah, and I really likethe constant reflection.
I think too.
I mean, there are a variety ofreasons why we should be
reflective, and spirituality iscertainly one of them.
But, like you're saying, ifeverything, if you're looking at
life as a mirror, it reallyhelps us to recognize our impact
on others, on our family, atwork, in our community.
(05:06):
Sometimes we're going to likethat reflection and other times
it's going to be harder to lookat, but it's still giving us
some information.
Bryan May (05:14):
No, absolutely.
And you know there's a lot ofbuzzwords right now and
buzzwords are sometimes good andsometimes they're overused.
But you know, listen, I thinkthat looking at ourselves and
saying like, just for example,victimhood right.
No one likes to classifythemselves as a victim.
No one likes to say if you ask100 people, do you consider
(05:36):
yourself a victim or have victimmentality, most people are
going to say no.
So instead of asking questionslike that, ask yourself or
people where in your life do youfeel you're more on the victim
end?
Dr. Leah OH (05:50):
of the spectrum.
Bryan May (05:51):
Right, because that's a more honest approach than
just yes or no.
Dr. Leah OH (05:56):
Yep, yep, I agree.
And so, kind of leaning intospirituality, I was wondering if
we could think about thatintersection of spirituality and
leadership.
So we've kind of talked aboutwhat spirituality means to you.
Can you kind of tell us how yousee it integrated into
(06:17):
leadership?
And with leadership I mean wecan strip the word down to just
influence.
You can think of it in anorganization, in your role, in
your family.
Whatever hits is what I want tohear more about.
Bryan May (06:31):
Yeah, I mean.
So leadership and spiritualitydefinitely go hand in hand,
right?
Because a lot of it is you haveto have faith, right.
Your people have to have faithin you.
You have to have faith inyourself and you have to have
faith in God.
So it's this combination ofreally leading from the front
right.
Your people have to have faithin you, you have to have faith
in yourself and you have to havefaith in God.
So it's this combination ofreally leading from the front
right.
There's a saying that my mentor,marshall Wilkinson, always says
(06:53):
, and that's the fish rots atthe head.
And so you know, we want tomake sure that we're leading
from the front, that we're doingwhat we're asking other people
to do.
I am a believer that you needto know every aspect of the
business right.
Delegating is important.
You have to delegate.
The number one reason I seesolopreneurs and entrepreneurs
fail is they don't want todelegate.
I've spoken to many, manyattorneys that are working 23
(07:17):
hours a day.
They don't want to giveanything to anyone else because
they're like no one can do itlike me, and now they have 10
clients and they're never goingto make more than 200,000.
Dr. Leah OH (07:26):
Yeah.
Bryan May (07:27):
Yeah, yep, so it's.
It's very important to delegate, but you need to know, a little
bit about what everyone's doing.
Yeah, you know, yeah, Like.
I'll just give you an exampleright Like, everyone's using
CapCut, everyone's usingInstagram, everyone's using
these video editing.
But if you don't even knowwhat's possible, if you don't
(07:48):
even know what the choices are,you don't have to be an expert
video editor, but you need toknow something so that when you
hire someone, you're like hey,this is what I want it to look
like.
Dr. Leah OH (07:58):
Yes, yeah, exactly yeah.
So really being informed, beingflexible, being a team player.
Bryan May (08:05):
Absolutely, absolutely, and then it's really
.
You know, a quote that I loveis I may be wrong, but I'm never
in doubt, and it's kind of likeyou know when you're on the
football field right you knowyou're going to make a play and
you have to go with that playplay.
Now, if something happens, youcan call an audible, but you
have to go full steam ahead andI think that people, people
(08:32):
definitely have problems withthat right, people definitely
have challenges with you knowsticking to it and going all the
way.
Dr. Leah OH (08:36):
And now, um, brian, how do we, if we're, if we're
doing this full steam ahead, um,but then bringing in reflection
I mean, you brought up theaudible kind of tell me what you
think that would look like in abusiness sense, like if we have
this plan and we're committedto it, but we're starting to
recognize maybe there are someunexpected bumps that you know.
(08:58):
What would you do there withyour experience?
Bryan May (09:02):
Definitely.
I mean here.
This is a great example, right?
Everyone's into marketing rightnow.
I mean marketing is moreimportant than sales.
Marketing is probably the mostimportant thing a business
person has at this point.
And so you put out an ad andit's flopping, and so we have to
pivot.
We have to pivot.
We can't just say, oh no, no,no, no, this is a great ad and
(09:25):
we're going to go for it.
Like the people are going todecide, the market is going to
decide, and so it's aboutpreparing.
Also, like, hey, you know, we'vegot a split test right Now.
If you, if you split test threethings and they all club, well
that's okay, but we've got tolike, really accept, and then we
gotta call the audible rightyeah and maybe we have to call
(09:45):
in a professional or a different.
And you know like with marketing, people always want to think
they know what's going to hitit's.
Most people don't know what'sgoing to go viral.
Most people don't have a clue.
Look what's going on withjaguar right now.
Most people don't have a cluewith.
Sometimes you're get so thepicture is so close to your face
(10:06):
that it's so good to you andyour team because you're on your
little zoom call.
Hold on when I put this out tothe 300 plus million people in
America and you know comedybillions.
Dr. Leah OH (10:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Bryan May (10:20):
It's like you get so inside.
It's a joke, that no one elsegets.
Yeah, and you say a joke.
That's what it is.
Dr. Leah OH (10:29):
Yeah yeah, that's a really really good illustration
.
There, you're right, you getcompletely immersed and it says
what you wanted to say.
Or lands the way that you'rehoping, and it's not always the
case.
Or it lands the way that you'rehoping, and it's not always the
case.
Bryan May (10:42):
And I think that you know, with bumps in the road,
right, I think that we all haveto accept, you know, younger
people, people in their 20s, inmy opinion and what I'm reading
I read a lot, I know, you read alot they don't handle bumps in
the road as well as good asother people, right?
And there's a lot of jokes andthere's a lot of videos about
(11:04):
that, and so it's really aboutnot reacting but responding
Right.
Which has been said a bunch oftimes, but you okay, like the
way I look at it is like umalmost like every FBI movie
(11:27):
where they have the board up thewhiteboard, the pictures with
the line string.
It's like doing it that way andbeing like okay, we were wrong,
John Smith isn't the killer.
Yep, Now let's look at thewhole board and let's figure it
out.
Go to the bar, get drunk andstart crying because John Smith.
Yeah, let's try to really wrapour head around, because the
(11:50):
fact is that every day there'sbumps in the road.
Dr. Leah OH (11:53):
Mm-hmm.
Bryan May (11:54):
Way life is.
You know what I'm saying.
So it's like we have to getmore resilient.
Dr. Leah OH (11:58):
Yes, yep, yep, yep, and I love that, and I think
too, with my leadership brainand thinking about how powerful
especially with your take andbringing in spirituality you can
role model.
Even if I want to be at the barcrying right now, that's not
the choice I'm going to make.
Instead, this is what the planis, and I think that role
(12:20):
modeling is probably the mostpowerful way to help others
begin to learn that resilienceand how to respond and not react
.
Bryan May (12:30):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that it's like, once again
, it's knowing yourself.
So just for example.
You know, let's use thisexample of going to the bar and
crying, right.
So you know, maybe you don'twant to go to the bar, but maybe
you do want to cry.
It could be okay setting atimer.
And you know what?
For the next 10 minutes, I'mgoing to complain.
Dr. Leah OH (12:51):
Next 10 minutes.
Bryan May (12:51):
I'm going to scream, I'm going to yell, I'm going to
get this.
I don't want to like bottlethings in.
So giving ourselves like ascheduled time to allow
ourselves.
You know, someone has a greatquote where it's like you know
you're allowed to complain forfive minutes, but no more.
You know something like that.
And it's one of those thingswhere you know if a bump happens
(13:11):
you're going to have anemotional reaction.
If you don't, then you're apsychopath.
So, it's okay, Like we want tohave that emotional reaction and
we want to give ourselves timeto to handle that.
We just don't want it to becomeour entire disposition.
We don't want it to become ourpersonality.
Dr. Leah OH (13:29):
Yeah, and I think that's a really nice segue,
Cause I'm thinking about kind ofyou talk about spirituality as
a catalyst for achievingprofessional growth, and I was
hoping you could kind of walk usthrough that idea growth.
Bryan May (13:43):
And I was hoping you could kind of walk us through
that idea.
Yeah, so I mean, the number onething that I love is reframing.
I think that reframing is justso powerful.
We all do it from time to time.
A lot of books that we read aschildren reframe, but sometimes
when you're in the thick of it,sometimes when you're on the
field under the lights, it's alittle bit different.
(14:06):
And so it's saying okay, there'sa bump in the road, there's a
challenge, there's somethingthat's not going 100%.
How can I reframe this as anopportunity?
I just said to someone theother day a business partner of
mine who is in marketing andhe's very good at marketing and
this one project he's havingsome challenges right.
(14:26):
I said to him okay, so it'skind of like you're at step 100
as far as knowledge, but you'reat step one as far as what's
really on the paper.
So, let's just take all theinformation that you learned and
now let's start at step one.
But let's use all thatinformation, all 100 steps.
Dr. Leah OH (14:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I really like that.
Yeah, reframing, it's such animportant tool.
One example I always use when Iteach I teach a persuasion
class.
One thing that gets me morefrustrated than anything is
going into a cord drawer at homeand I had them all nice, and
(15:03):
then I pick it up and they wereone like all.
1000 chargers and cords can bepicked up once and it drives me
nuts.
And then there's one day Irealized the reframe was well
the other, the other option is Iwould be living alone.
I wouldn't have this amazingfamily or this partner, these
amazing children.
So that was my reframe and it'sbeen so positive and so helpful
(15:25):
.
So when I open up that drawer,I don't want to lose my mind so
much anymore.
Bryan May (15:30):
Exactly, and that's a great example, because, listen,
it's okay if you open thedrawer and you get angry or you
get like that trigger thatemotion.
You want to quickly reframe it,as you know well.
Thank God, I have my family,thank God.
I have the ability to open thisdrawer.
Dr. Leah OH (15:46):
Yes.
Bryan May (15:48):
And then calm yourself down in a very logical
way, because if you're justgoing to throw all the wires,
yeah, no exactly.
I love that you teachpersuasion Exactly.
I love that you teachpersuasion I think that it's so
(16:09):
important in business, in sales,in marketing, in regular life.
I think that there's a lot ofdark triad, manipulative kind of
stuff.
I think that people have torealize there's a difference
between manipulating and helpingpeople get the result they want
.
Exactly Example that I like touse metaphors and things like
that.
(16:30):
The guy comes into a cardealership and says hey, I have
a family with four kids.
If you sell him a Ferrari,you're a bad person, right.
But if you sell him that brandnew minivan that has the and has
all the safety features andeverything else, that's, that's
good, that's what he needs.
The difference betweenmanipulating and helping people
(16:52):
make a decision, becauseadvertising, marketing, sale,
all about helping people makethe right decision.
And if your product or yourservice is the right decision,
then you're doing them adisservice if they don't use you
.
Dr. Leah OH (17:05):
Yes, yeah, and so we talk about.
This can be seen as a dirtyword, but here's why it's really
a tool, but like any tool, evena hammer, we need to use it
responsibly and be mindful ofpotential consequences.
Bryan May (17:19):
Totally.
Dr. Leah OH (17:20):
Yeah.
Bryan May (17:21):
You know, another important thing that I really do
focus on and this has reallybecome a buzzword and this is
like you go on YouTubeeveryone's talking about, but
removing limiting beliefslimiting beliefs and it's really
a subset of reframing right,and it's amazing how many ideas,
how many concepts we've adoptedfrom other people right, and
(17:45):
that could be parents, thatcould be siblings, kids at
school, and it becomes part ofus, but it's not our concept,
it's not our idea.
So when I say removing limitingbeliefs, it's seeing it for what
it is, it's seeing the truthbehind it.
And so, just for example, youknow, a boy in high school asked
(18:08):
a girl to the prom and she saysno, and let's say she said it a
little bit.
Now for him to be like I amnever going to date anyone again
or I'm not worthy, I'm ugly,I'm not attracted, no girl's
going to ever like me again,whatever that might be Right,
well, no, that's just.
It's just one person thatdoesn't, that doesn't get along
(18:31):
with you, or?
Doesn't meld with you and liketo make this whole
characterization based on oneperson's idea.
But the thing is, oursubconscious, we we might have
this little negativity or wemight have this little bit of
doubt, and our brain isconstantly looking for reasons
to buttress that point.
(18:52):
So when the person sayssomething negative, now all of a
sudden you see there's a, sothat one voice that's really not
a nice voice is like you see, Itold you and that's the proof.
Dr. Leah OH (19:05):
Yeah, yeah, it's funny.
I just saw that Thanksgiving.
Right, we just had Thanksgiving.
I had a friend who was like oh,making pies are so hard,
they're impossible.
And another person, lena Vernon, said pies are the easiest
thing in the world to make.
And then she was like, oh well,I've never made them.
My mom always just said theywere so hard and this like was
(19:28):
nearly impossible.
And she's like well, now I'mgonna make a pie if this isn't
so.
You know, it was just that oneperson who kind of challenged it
and it was like oh, I've nevereven tried this, I've just taken
someone else's word for it youknow, there's a very good story.
Bryan May (19:45):
This young couple gets married.
It's like their first night intheir house.
The wife says I'm going to cookyou a steak dinner.
So she goes in the kitchen, shetakes the piece of meat and she
cuts both of the ends off, putsit in the pan, she cooks it.
And the husband said why didyou cut the ends off?
And she's like oh well, that'swhat my mother does.
(20:06):
So they call the mother andthey're like why do you cut the
ends off?
The mother says oh well, that'swhat my mom did.
So then they call thegrandmother and the grandma's
like oh well, my pan was toosmall so it just fit in there so
it's things like that that,like you realize, like, oh,
(20:26):
we're, and it's also, you know,one more is like crabs in a
bucket.
Dr. Leah OH (20:31):
You know that's the negative version of it you know
, we have to really view thingsfrom a subjective point of view
yes, I agree, and so we've justlooked at kind of spirituality
as a catalyst for professionalgrowth.
And then you also talk abouthow professional growth is more
than just business strategiesand business know-how.
(20:52):
Can you kind of talk to usabout you know what led you to
this belief?
Bryan May (20:57):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a combination.
I think that a lot of times inall aspects of life right now,
we're a headline nation, meaningthe post or the times or
something.
They put out an article, theyput one headline and that's what
it is, when we all know there'sthree or four sides to the
story and so you need a lot ofthings.
(21:19):
So sometimes when people saybusiness strategies yeah, that's
probably two slices of the pie,maybe even three, but it's not
the whole pie.
Something that is very importantis a plan.
Strategy is great, but you needto know where you're going.
Kind of like riding a bicycleor motorcycle wherever you're
(21:43):
looking, looking, that's usuallywhere you end up, okay,
creating this plan and you knowyou could change it along the
way.
But creating this planfinancially, um, where you want
to go, what your your overalllife plan is, and reverse
engineering it, right, this isall important.
And then really knowing whatyou want and knowing what you
don't want is all important.
(22:04):
And then really knowing whatyou want and knowing what you
don't want, right, and we don'twant to focus on what we don't
want, but we want to know what'sthere?
no-transcript.
What's your take on that?
Dr. Leah OH (22:17):
Well, I was just thinking how a lot of people
will say something like well, Iwant to make more money, but
then they don't realize, oh, butI didn't want to work those
extra hours, that now I need towork, right?
So a lot of times we will focuson one or the other, but I
think it's putting them togetherthat we recognize, like you
said, that plan becomes a lotclearer.
Bryan May (22:37):
Yeah, I mean, you know there's a good quote and I
learned it from my mentor,marshall Wilkinson.
But you know, everyone wants togo to heaven, but no one wants
to die, yep.
And so people look at certainattributes.
People look at things andthey're like I want that, but
they might not be willing to goand do what they're doing.
(22:59):
And so that's why I that'swhere social media gets a little
dark right that's where,because everyone's posting their
, their best videos, their bestlooks, except for britney spears
.
And then everyone talks crapabout britney.
Be posting something real yeahbut it's one of those things
(23:19):
it's dangerous to.
There's a difference betweencomparing and saying I want what
Mr Jones has and saying wow,look at what Mr Jones has, look
at what's possible.
And so you can look at itperspective in a very positive
way of like okay, if I do this,this, this and this, I will have
(23:40):
this.
But, if you're going to say Iwant Mr Jones' wife, I want Mr
Jones' house, I want his life.
Dr. Leah OH (23:49):
Yeah, exactly.
So maybe leaning into thismight be a nice connection.
So I was wondering if you couldgive us an example of how
you're integrating spiritualityinto your business sense and
your kind of everydayprofessional life.
Bryan May (24:04):
Definitely so.
So something that I really,really love is this idea of be
do have, okay, and and be dohave.
I just feel like everythingfalls under a category or
subcategory, and so a lot ofpeople in business, they want to
say something like I was arealtor for a long time, so I'm
(24:24):
just going to use real estate,but this could be for anything.
It's like, okay, after I sellfive houses, I'm going to tell
everyone I'm a realtor.
Dr. Leah OH (24:33):
Okay.
Bryan May (24:34):
After I have five listings after I my my photo on
the park.
I'm going to say to everyoneI'm a realtor, right, and that's
the wrong way of doing it.
We want to basically just wakeup one day and say, okay, I'm
the number one lawyer, I'm thenumber one marketing company,
I'm the number one realtor, yeah.
(24:55):
And then say to myself, okay,well, what would the number one
realtor be doing?
The number one realtor would beadvertising.
They would be taking picturesviewing houses, even if they
don't have listings.
They'd be going to houses,they'd be taking pictures,
they'd be making cold calls,they'd be knocking on doors.
(25:15):
So now you're going through itlike, okay, I am the number one
realtor, I am the number oneattorney, now this is what I'm
doing, and then I will have thestuff, instead of saying I'm
going to meet it while I havethe stuff, and then I'm going to
identify as what it is.
Dr. Leah OH (25:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly Starting that way, and
so then I'm wondering if you canshare some insights that you
found in you know integratingspirituality in that way,
instead of kind of keeping Ithink the the antiquated way is
let's keep that separate fromwork Work is work.
Spirituality or religion isoutside of work.
(25:53):
So what have you found in kindof you know merging those and
coming to work as a whole person?
Bryan May (26:02):
Totally so.
I think that it is connected.
I think that you know toseparate it.
It becomes very robotic, youknow, and you want to be that
unique person.
People want to do business withcertain people, just like
people want to date certainpeople, and people don't want to
do business with certain peopleand they don't want to date
(26:23):
certain people.
So you want to be veryauthentically you and then your
people are going to be attractedto you.
You're going to get the rightclients.
Not all money is good money.
So if you're out there andyou're just like kissing
people's butts and you're tryingto be who you think they want
to be.
(26:44):
well, they're.
Eventually, they're going tofind out that's not you, and
you're also going to be wastingtime with people that aren't
your good clients, and so Ithink that that's really
important.
I think that you know we hearthis all the time, but it's true
, you know taking time tomeditate, taking time to pray
taking time to visualize, right?
(27:04):
Yeah, I mean, visualization isso important.
And I think a lot of people.
They hear these things but theydon't really do them, and
that's why people do need acoach, that's why people do need
a mentor, that's why people doneed a teacher, because it's
different, right?
I mean, how many of us havelike seen one of these you know
quizzes?
(27:24):
Or something like that.
They sit down, they kind oflook at it.
But then if I'm asking youthose questions, you're going to
answer it, totally differentthan if you're just doing it
yourself.
Dr. Leah OH (27:35):
Yes.
Bryan May (27:35):
Yep, and so visualization look, every
Olympic athlete everyprofessional major, michael
Jordan kind of person they allvisualize.
Visualization is so importantand I think that taking time to
do that and really reallywriting notes, writing letters,
(27:59):
to your family Really createlike for me.
I love WhatsApp.
And I have groups of WhatsAppwith myself and I just make
notes and I send myself messagesto myself.
Dr. Leah OH (28:11):
Yeah, well, that's really neat.
I hadn't thought about that.
Like, I've seen apps where,like websites, where you can,
you know, send a letter toyourself to be open the next
year, five years or some point.
But I like the um, the moreinformal dialogue with self too.
Bryan May (28:29):
Yeah, I think that you know.
We have so many thoughts everyday.
We take a shower, we go to thegym, we get these thoughts, but
if we're not getting it out, ifwe're not putting it on either
paper my handwriting is awful Ifwe are not putting it on paper,
or typing it or voice, notingit to each other, to ourselves
or you know or to our team, thenyou know what is it doing it's
(28:52):
going to waste.
And that's what creates youstaying up all night.
That's what creates waking up at3am because if you would have
wrote it down before bed, thenyou wouldn't have to worry about
waking up.
So it's things like that, Ithink, are like.
That's like real practicalthing news, and I love this line
Pray as if it already happened.
Dr. Leah OH (29:14):
You know really being grateful and praying as if
it already happened.
Bryan May (29:18):
I think that's really something that's special.
Dr. Leah OH (29:26):
Yeah, yeah, I agree .
So I have two final questionsfor you, brian, and this is the
way we end all of ourcommunicative leader episodes.
So it's a two-parter.
So the first one is thinkingabout, you know, pragmatic
leadership or communicationadvice, a challenge, a tip for
our titled leaders out there.
And then the second part isagain that advice, tip or
challenge to employees of allranks, across all industries.
Bryan May (29:51):
Yeah, so for title leaders, you know, authenticity
is important right.
When you look at the leaders ofbig businesses that are all out
there, whether they're lean tothe left or to the right, they
usually are characters.
They're usually themselves.
So I think that that's reallyimportant.
Leading from the front.
(30:11):
Right Look Elon Musk, sleeping,sleeping at SpaceX.
Right sleeping at SpaceX right,jeff Bezos starting it in his
garage, things like that.
You know the front forimportant.
Have a shared vision, right?
Like, not everyone is going tobe the right people for you.
Not every vendor is going to bethe right person, not every
(30:34):
accountant, every lawyer, everyemployee, like if you see that
someone is just doesn't have thevision.
Every employee, like, if yousee that someone is just doesn't
have the vision you got to letthem know.
You want to have people and youwant to have loyalty, and so you
want to treat the people rightwhen when they have the loyalty
you want to be able tocompensate them in any.
Sometimes it's just giving thema title and sometimes it's
(30:54):
giving them more money.
But people will realize, asthey're in the business long
enough, that finding new peoplesometimes is a lot harder than
they think.
And you know something that Ireally like and it could be for
employees, it could be for titleleaders but treating people
like you want the outcome to beso.
(31:15):
If you're in sales, treat abuyer like a buyer.
If you're dealing with sellers,treat a seller like a seller.
If you're going up to someoneand asking them on a date, treat
them like you're going to sayyes.
Treat people like they're goingto say yes.
You know, like cold calling,just, for example, right, cold
outreach, which is still huge inbusiness today.
(31:36):
If you're going to call and beapologetic I'm sorry for
bothering you blah, blah, blah,it's not going to work.
But if you call and you justtreat them like someone that
wants and needs service, peopleare still going to say no.
That's not the point.
The point of it is when someonesays yes, they're really dialed
into you.
We got to really remove theno's into you.
(32:02):
We got to really remove theno's, really remove the negative
comments.
Remove the trash talk, the pagesix, and just concentrate.
Our people are our people.
And if half the country hatesyou, you could be president.
Dr. Leah OH (32:10):
Yeah, exactly, and with that, treat them as buyers,
treat them as sellers.
Your persuasion, like you'resaying, that's different.
You're going in with adifferent set of rhetoric.
Your tone is going to bedifferent, your posture,
everything is going to betweaked in the way that aligns
(32:32):
with your intended outcome.
Bryan May (32:34):
Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I say to people
is let's say, you're a companyand you're pitching your idea.
Now, if I tell you hey, I knowfor a fact that these guys
really like us.
I know for a fact they reallyneed this kind of product.
This is going to be a home run,but we really got to put on our
(32:55):
best show.
They want to feel like we'redoing it the right way.
Now think about how you'regoing to go into that meeting,
versus me saying, okay, I made acold call.
This guy's name is John Smith,I don't know, anything about him
.
I don't know if he's interested,but you know what, just go out
there and pitch him.
It's going to be like night andday, it's going to be talking
(33:16):
to a guy on New York city streetversus doing a TED talk, and so
that's what I mean we have totreat people like the outcome we
want.
Dr. Leah OH (33:25):
Yes, yeah, that's really powerful and that's
something that many people thinkabout.
So I think we get so lost inthe nerves, the emotions, the
what ifs that prevents that inmany cases.
Bryan May (33:39):
Totally.
And then for employees, youknow, I think, really knowing
and really having a good idea ofwhere you're going.
Okay, if you want to have lunchand you want to go home and be
home by five, or six o'clock andyou want to clock out and not
have to worry about, besidesmaybe some emails you're okay
(34:01):
with 80, 100, 150, whatever itmight be, that's okay, just
accept that, and then let's justbe the best version of that,
right?
But if you want to do more, andyou want to be at that C-suite
or you want to do next level?
Well then, you have to knowwhere you're going.
You have to have that place soyou can get to that level.
You want to get a mentor, youwant to prepare, you want to
(34:27):
have a roadmap and you want tospeak to people in the
organization right, you want tomake sure you're speaking to the
right people and you'rebecoming friendly with the right
people and finding like-mindedpeople.
Once again, it's not about, oh,this person is in charge, so
I'm going to like the Giantsbecause they like the Giants.
It's like okay, this is who Iam.
This person is a COO.
I like him, I like her.
(34:48):
They seem cool, we seem like webond.
Okay, so let's focus on thatperson.
Let's not pretend that we'rethis other guy.
That's never going to work.
It's not going to build thelong bonds, and in the corporate
world things don't happenovernight.
People are waiting years andyears and all these people to
move around to get thatpromotion.
Dr. Leah OH (35:12):
And I always think about the cognitive lift it is
to you pretend you like thegiants with them and then you've
got to keep that going, whilealso you know answering all of
the other strategic workquestions.
I mean, it's just, it's not,there's no, there's no return on
investment there.
Bryan May (35:32):
There isn't, there isn't, and also you're.
You're making your brain workfive to 10 times.
Dr. Leah OH (35:37):
Yeah, exactly.
Bryan May (35:39):
And then you know what.
What happens is you go to theChristmas party, you have two
drinks and then the real youcome out.
You get angry.
You get angry, you go into thedrawer at work, which is
different than going to thedrawer at home.
Dr. Leah OH (35:52):
Yeah.
Bryan May (35:52):
And then you know Stella from next door didn't put
things back.
You flip out and now everyonesees the real you yeah didn't
put things back, you flip outand now everyone sees the real
you.
You're at a place for eight to10 hours every single day of
your life.
Eventually the real you isgoing to come out.
You can't have bad days, butyou just want to be yourself,
(36:18):
and it's just like I always usethis analogy that I absolutely
love, which I love pizza, samesame.
So you go to the pizza store,every pizza store has the
Hawaiian slice, but almost noone has ever ordered it.
No one's ever seen anyone orderit.
But it's there, so you knowpeople are ordering it.
So we want to be the Hawaiianslice.
Dr. Leah OH (36:35):
We don't want to be the regular slice.
Bryan May (36:37):
That's good.
We want to know that whensomeone orders the Hawaiian
slice, they really love it.
Dr. Leah OH (36:42):
Yes, yeah, yeah, I really like that.
Oh, that's funny.
So my spouse actually likesHawaiian pizza he's the only one
and we met some friends andthey were like you like this too
, and like now it's when we seethis family, they always show up
with this Hawaiian pizza andthey're both so happy.
But yeah, I really really likethat idea of it.
(37:05):
Yeah.
Bryan May (37:06):
Yeah, you want to just be yourself, you want to be
in lane.
I think that you know, likewhen something in business works
, people copy it and that'sthere's.
There's levels to it, right?
We don't want to get a blackand white on and off thinking
right.
There's Wendy's, there's BurgerKing, there's McDonald's,
there's Chipotle, there's thisright.
Multiple things can work, butwe still want to.
(37:29):
We want it to be us.
We don't want to just be simplya copy.
Dr. Leah OH (37:35):
Yep, exactly Well, brian.
Thank you for joining us todayon the Communicative Leader.
This has been a really fun andinsightful conversation and I'm
excited to share it with ourlisteners.
Bryan May (37:46):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate theopportunity and it's just been
great to connect.
Dr. Leah OH (37:52):
All right, my friends.
That wraps up our conversationtoday.
Until next time, communicatewith intention and lead with
purpose.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith you again soon on the
Communicative Leader.
Bryan May joins us on the Communicative Leader.
Bryan is a highly accomplishedentrepreneur, business
strategist and spiritual guide,and he has spent years merging
the worlds of spirituality andbusiness to drive exceptional
results.
Bryan has a proven track recordof conducting multi-million
dollar transactions and sellinghundreds of homes, bringing with
(00:20):
him a really unique perspectiveto the table.
Bringing with him a reallyunique perspective to the table,
Bryan helps individuals andorganizations unlock their full
potential by integratingspirituality into their
professional growth, and todayhe shares practical wisdom and
inspiring stories with us.
Let's dive in.
Hello and welcome to theCommunicative Leader hosted by
(00:43):
me, Dr.
Leah Omilion- Hodges.
My friends call me Dr O.
I'm a professor ofcommunication and a leadership
communication expert.
On the Communicative Leader,we're working to make your work
life what you want it to be.
Well, brian, thank you so muchfor joining us today on the
(01:03):
Communicative Leader.
We're really excited to haveyou and to learn more about your
unique perspective and, beforewe dive into these questions, I
was hoping you could share alittle bit of your background,
of what led you to where you aretoday.
Bryan May (01:17):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So.
I am from New York, grew up onLong Island, had a pretty middle
class lifestyle and I quicklybecame infatuated with real
estate, got very heavily, boughtmy first house at 21.
And after, as I was in collegeat Hofstra, I started buying
(01:39):
rentals and it kind of justspinned off from there,
snowballed into other things,started getting my real estate
license and I ended up, you know, fast forward, opening up my
own brokerage.
I ended up selling, you know,more than 300 houses and just
doing a lot of business,consulting a lot of business,
(01:59):
and then later on I had atragedy in my life and so I lost
my, my wife.
My wife passed away and so nowI am engaged to someone else and
, uh, we're doing like the BradyBunch thing.
She has a daughter, I have afive-year-old son, and so it's
just the spiritual path, thebusiness path and kind of living
(02:23):
life and dealing with with bigconcepts, dealing with big
issues.
that are really important right,so it's a mixture.
Dr. Leah OH (02:30):
Yeah, that is so much to navigate in such a short
period as well.
You know and I think the olderI get, the more I learn that you
know to just always expect theunexpected.
You just can't plan foreverything, even though we may
try really hard to.
Bryan May (02:50):
Yeah, I mean, I think that you know diving into, like
the spirituality aspect.
It's important to prepare andit's important to have a plan,
but it's also important tounderstand that most likely,
that plan isn't going to go theway you want.
And I think of like Noah's Ark.
Right, Like you know, you haveto build the ark, you have to
(03:12):
process, but there's going to bea lot of waves in the middle.
Dr. Leah OH (03:17):
Yeah, yeah, I really I really liked that
illustration.
So to your spirituality, canyou kind of walk us through to
you how you kind of define andthink of spirituality?
Bryan May (03:28):
Oh, absolutely so.
I think that it's a personalthing.
I think that everyone can lookat it their own way.
The way I look at it is life isa mirror.
So you know, when I say life isa mirror, it's like you have to
look at yourself and just cometo accept and we're all on
different levels.
I think the biggest thing I'velearned is life is not an on and
(03:51):
off switch, it's not a lightswitch, it's a dimmer, it's a
big spectrum.
And so you know, like looking atBible stories or any religious
stories, you're reading themover and over again every year,
right?
Or any religious stories,you're reading them over and
over again every year, right?
Because as you get older, likeyou mentioned just a minute ago,
it means more and more to you.
So a lot of it is life as amare, really going inward and
(04:18):
seeing what's going on, becausea lot of what's going on
externally is just a response towhat's going on internally, and
so sometimes, when you seesynchronicities or you see
things going on in your lifethat are external, basically
asking yourself like what, whatis, why is this happening and
and what can I do about it,instead of like, okay, this is
(04:39):
happening to me?
No, it's happening for me.
I still have control over it.
Dr. Leah OH (04:43):
Yeah, yeah, me, no, it's happening for me.
I still have control over it.
Yeah, yeah, and I really likethe constant reflection.
I think too.
I mean, there are a variety ofreasons why we should be
reflective, and spirituality iscertainly one of them.
But, like you're saying, ifeverything, if you're looking at
life as a mirror, it reallyhelps us to recognize our impact
on others, on our family, atwork, in our community.
(05:06):
Sometimes we're going to likethat reflection and other times
it's going to be harder to lookat, but it's still giving us
some information.
Bryan May (05:14):
No, absolutely.
And you know there's a lot ofbuzzwords right now and
buzzwords are sometimes good andsometimes they're overused.
But you know, listen, I thinkthat looking at ourselves and
saying like, just for example,victimhood right.
No one likes to classifythemselves as a victim.
No one likes to say if you ask100 people, do you consider
(05:36):
yourself a victim or have victimmentality, most people are
going to say no.
So instead of asking questionslike that, ask yourself or
people where in your life do youfeel you're more on the victim
end?
Dr. Leah OH (05:50):
of the spectrum.
Bryan May (05:51):
Right, because that's a more honest approach than
just yes or no.
Dr. Leah OH (05:56):
Yep, yep, I agree.
And so, kind of leaning intospirituality, I was wondering if
we could think about thatintersection of spirituality and
leadership.
So we've kind of talked aboutwhat spirituality means to you.
Can you kind of tell us how yousee it integrated into
(06:17):
leadership?
And with leadership I mean wecan strip the word down to just
influence.
You can think of it in anorganization, in your role, in
your family.
Whatever hits is what I want tohear more about.
Bryan May (06:31):
Yeah, I mean.
So leadership and spiritualitydefinitely go hand in hand,
right?
Because a lot of it is you haveto have faith, right.
Your people have to have faithin you.
You have to have faith inyourself and you have to have
faith in God.
So it's this combination ofreally leading from the front
right.
Your people have to have faithin you, you have to have faith
in yourself and you have to havefaith in God.
So it's this combination ofreally leading from the front
right.
There's a saying that my mentor,marshall Wilkinson, always says
(06:53):
, and that's the fish rots atthe head.
And so you know, we want tomake sure that we're leading
from the front, that we're doingwhat we're asking other people
to do.
I am a believer that you needto know every aspect of the
business right.
Delegating is important.
You have to delegate.
The number one reason I seesolopreneurs and entrepreneurs
fail is they don't want todelegate.
I've spoken to many, manyattorneys that are working 23
(07:17):
hours a day.
They don't want to giveanything to anyone else because
they're like no one can do itlike me, and now they have 10
clients and they're never goingto make more than 200,000.
Dr. Leah OH (07:26):
Yeah.
Bryan May (07:27):
Yeah, yep, so it's.
It's very important to delegate, but you need to know, a little
bit about what everyone's doing.
Yeah, you know, yeah, Like.
I'll just give you an exampleright Like, everyone's using
CapCut, everyone's usingInstagram, everyone's using
these video editing.
But if you don't even knowwhat's possible, if you don't
(07:48):
even know what the choices are,you don't have to be an expert
video editor, but you need toknow something so that when you
hire someone, you're like hey,this is what I want it to look
like.
Dr. Leah OH (07:58):
Yes, yeah, exactly yeah.
So really being informed, beingflexible, being a team player.
Bryan May (08:05):
Absolutely, absolutely, and then it's really
.
You know, a quote that I loveis I may be wrong, but I'm never
in doubt, and it's kind of likeyou know when you're on the
football field right you knowyou're going to make a play and
you have to go with that playplay.
Now, if something happens, youcan call an audible, but you
have to go full steam ahead andI think that people, people
(08:32):
definitely have problems withthat right, people definitely
have challenges with you knowsticking to it and going all the
way.
Dr. Leah OH (08:36):
And now, um, brian, how do we, if we're, if we're
doing this full steam ahead, um,but then bringing in reflection
I mean, you brought up theaudible kind of tell me what you
think that would look like in abusiness sense, like if we have
this plan and we're committedto it, but we're starting to
recognize maybe there are someunexpected bumps that you know.
(08:58):
What would you do there withyour experience?
Bryan May (09:02):
Definitely.
I mean here.
This is a great example, right?
Everyone's into marketing rightnow.
I mean marketing is moreimportant than sales.
Marketing is probably the mostimportant thing a business
person has at this point.
And so you put out an ad andit's flopping, and so we have to
pivot.
We have to pivot.
We can't just say, oh no, no,no, no, this is a great ad and
(09:25):
we're going to go for it.
Like the people are going todecide, the market is going to
decide, and so it's aboutpreparing.
Also, like, hey, you know, we'vegot a split test right Now.
If you, if you split test threethings and they all club, well
that's okay, but we've got tolike, really accept, and then we
gotta call the audible rightyeah and maybe we have to call
(09:45):
in a professional or a different.
And you know like with marketing, people always want to think
they know what's going to hitit's.
Most people don't know what'sgoing to go viral.
Most people don't have a clue.
Look what's going on withjaguar right now.
Most people don't have a cluewith.
Sometimes you're get so thepicture is so close to your face
(10:06):
that it's so good to you andyour team because you're on your
little zoom call.
Hold on when I put this out tothe 300 plus million people in
America and you know comedybillions.
Dr. Leah OH (10:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Bryan May (10:20):
It's like you get so inside.
It's a joke, that no one elsegets.
Yeah, and you say a joke.
That's what it is.
Dr. Leah OH (10:29):
Yeah yeah, that's a really really good illustration
.
There, you're right, you getcompletely immersed and it says
what you wanted to say.
Or lands the way that you'rehoping, and it's not always the
case.
Or it lands the way that you'rehoping, and it's not always the
case.
Bryan May (10:42):
And I think that you know, with bumps in the road,
right, I think that we all haveto accept, you know, younger
people, people in their 20s, inmy opinion and what I'm reading
I read a lot, I know, you read alot they don't handle bumps in
the road as well as good asother people, right?
And there's a lot of jokes andthere's a lot of videos about
(11:04):
that, and so it's really aboutnot reacting but responding
Right.
Which has been said a bunch oftimes, but you okay, like the
way I look at it is like umalmost like every FBI movie
(11:27):
where they have the board up thewhiteboard, the pictures with
the line string.
It's like doing it that way andbeing like okay, we were wrong,
John Smith isn't the killer.
Yep, Now let's look at thewhole board and let's figure it
out.
Go to the bar, get drunk andstart crying because John Smith.
Yeah, let's try to really wrapour head around, because the
(11:50):
fact is that every day there'sbumps in the road.
Dr. Leah OH (11:53):
Mm-hmm.
Bryan May (11:54):
Way life is.
You know what I'm saying.
So it's like we have to getmore resilient.
Dr. Leah OH (11:58):
Yes, yep, yep, yep, and I love that, and I think
too, with my leadership brainand thinking about how powerful
especially with your take andbringing in spirituality you can
role model.
Even if I want to be at the barcrying right now, that's not
the choice I'm going to make.
Instead, this is what the planis, and I think that role
(12:20):
modeling is probably the mostpowerful way to help others
begin to learn that resilienceand how to respond and not react
.
Bryan May (12:30):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that it's like, once again
, it's knowing yourself.
So just for example.
You know, let's use thisexample of going to the bar and
crying, right.
So you know, maybe you don'twant to go to the bar, but maybe
you do want to cry.
It could be okay setting atimer.
And you know what?
For the next 10 minutes, I'mgoing to complain.
Dr. Leah OH (12:51):
Next 10 minutes.
Bryan May (12:51):
I'm going to scream, I'm going to yell, I'm going to
get this.
I don't want to like bottlethings in.
So giving ourselves like ascheduled time to allow
ourselves.
You know, someone has a greatquote where it's like you know
you're allowed to complain forfive minutes, but no more.
You know something like that.
And it's one of those thingswhere you know if a bump happens
(13:11):
you're going to have anemotional reaction.
If you don't, then you're apsychopath.
So, it's okay, Like we want tohave that emotional reaction and
we want to give ourselves timeto to handle that.
We just don't want it to becomeour entire disposition.
We don't want it to become ourpersonality.
Dr. Leah OH (13:29):
Yeah, and I think that's a really nice segue,
Cause I'm thinking about kind ofyou talk about spirituality as
a catalyst for achievingprofessional growth, and I was
hoping you could kind of walk usthrough that idea growth.
Bryan May (13:43):
And I was hoping you could kind of walk us through
that idea.
Yeah, so I mean, the number onething that I love is reframing.
I think that reframing is justso powerful.
We all do it from time to time.
A lot of books that we read aschildren reframe, but sometimes
when you're in the thick of it,sometimes when you're on the
field under the lights, it's alittle bit different.
(14:06):
And so it's saying okay, there'sa bump in the road, there's a
challenge, there's somethingthat's not going 100%.
How can I reframe this as anopportunity?
I just said to someone theother day a business partner of
mine who is in marketing andhe's very good at marketing and
this one project he's havingsome challenges right.
(14:26):
I said to him okay, so it'skind of like you're at step 100
as far as knowledge, but you'reat step one as far as what's
really on the paper.
So, let's just take all theinformation that you learned and
now let's start at step one.
But let's use all thatinformation, all 100 steps.
Dr. Leah OH (14:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I really like that.
Yeah, reframing, it's such animportant tool.
One example I always use when Iteach I teach a persuasion
class.
One thing that gets me morefrustrated than anything is
going into a cord drawer at homeand I had them all nice, and
(15:03):
then I pick it up and they wereone like all.
1000 chargers and cords can bepicked up once and it drives me
nuts.
And then there's one day Irealized the reframe was well
the other, the other option is Iwould be living alone.
I wouldn't have this amazingfamily or this partner, these
amazing children.
So that was my reframe and it'sbeen so positive and so helpful
(15:25):
.
So when I open up that drawer,I don't want to lose my mind so
much anymore.
Bryan May (15:30):
Exactly, and that's a great example, because, listen,
it's okay if you open thedrawer and you get angry or you
get like that trigger thatemotion.
You want to quickly reframe it,as you know well.
Thank God, I have my family,thank God.
I have the ability to open thisdrawer.
Dr. Leah OH (15:46):
Yes.
Bryan May (15:48):
And then calm yourself down in a very logical
way, because if you're justgoing to throw all the wires,
yeah, no exactly.
I love that you teachpersuasion Exactly.
I love that you teachpersuasion I think that it's so
(16:09):
important in business, in sales,in marketing, in regular life.
I think that there's a lot ofdark triad, manipulative kind of
stuff.
I think that people have torealize there's a difference
between manipulating and helpingpeople get the result they want
.
Exactly Example that I like touse metaphors and things like
that.
(16:30):
The guy comes into a cardealership and says hey, I have
a family with four kids.
If you sell him a Ferrari,you're a bad person, right.
But if you sell him that brandnew minivan that has the and has
all the safety features andeverything else, that's, that's
good, that's what he needs.
The difference betweenmanipulating and helping people
(16:52):
make a decision, becauseadvertising, marketing, sale,
all about helping people makethe right decision.
And if your product or yourservice is the right decision,
then you're doing them adisservice if they don't use you
.
Dr. Leah OH (17:05):
Yes, yeah, and so we talk about.
This can be seen as a dirtyword, but here's why it's really
a tool, but like any tool, evena hammer, we need to use it
responsibly and be mindful ofpotential consequences.
Bryan May (17:19):
Totally.
Dr. Leah OH (17:20):
Yeah.
Bryan May (17:21):
You know, another important thing that I really do
focus on and this has reallybecome a buzzword and this is
like you go on YouTubeeveryone's talking about, but
removing limiting beliefslimiting beliefs and it's really
a subset of reframing right,and it's amazing how many ideas,
how many concepts we've adoptedfrom other people right, and
(17:45):
that could be parents, thatcould be siblings, kids at
school, and it becomes part ofus, but it's not our concept,
it's not our idea.
So when I say removing limitingbeliefs, it's seeing it for what
it is, it's seeing the truthbehind it.
And so, just for example, youknow, a boy in high school asked
(18:08):
a girl to the prom and she saysno, and let's say she said it a
little bit.
Now for him to be like I amnever going to date anyone again
or I'm not worthy, I'm ugly,I'm not attracted, no girl's
going to ever like me again,whatever that might be Right,
well, no, that's just.
It's just one person thatdoesn't, that doesn't get along
(18:31):
with you, or?
Doesn't meld with you and liketo make this whole
characterization based on oneperson's idea.
But the thing is, oursubconscious, we we might have
this little negativity or wemight have this little bit of
doubt, and our brain isconstantly looking for reasons
to buttress that point.
(18:52):
So when the person sayssomething negative, now all of a
sudden you see there's a, sothat one voice that's really not
a nice voice is like you see, Itold you and that's the proof.
Dr. Leah OH (19:05):
Yeah, yeah, it's funny.
I just saw that Thanksgiving.
Right, we just had Thanksgiving.
I had a friend who was like oh,making pies are so hard,
they're impossible.
And another person, lena Vernon, said pies are the easiest
thing in the world to make.
And then she was like, oh well,I've never made them.
My mom always just said theywere so hard and this like was
(19:28):
nearly impossible.
And she's like well, now I'mgonna make a pie if this isn't
so.
You know, it was just that oneperson who kind of challenged it
and it was like oh, I've nevereven tried this, I've just taken
someone else's word for it youknow, there's a very good story.
Bryan May (19:45):
This young couple gets married.
It's like their first night intheir house.
The wife says I'm going to cookyou a steak dinner.
So she goes in the kitchen, shetakes the piece of meat and she
cuts both of the ends off, putsit in the pan, she cooks it.
And the husband said why didyou cut the ends off?
And she's like oh well, that'swhat my mother does.
(20:06):
So they call the mother andthey're like why do you cut the
ends off?
The mother says oh well, that'swhat my mom did.
So then they call thegrandmother and the grandma's
like oh well, my pan was toosmall so it just fit in there so
it's things like that that,like you realize, like, oh,
(20:26):
we're, and it's also, you know,one more is like crabs in a
bucket.
Dr. Leah OH (20:31):
You know that's the negative version of it you know
, we have to really view thingsfrom a subjective point of view
yes, I agree, and so we've justlooked at kind of spirituality
as a catalyst for professionalgrowth.
And then you also talk abouthow professional growth is more
than just business strategiesand business know-how.
(20:52):
Can you kind of talk to usabout you know what led you to
this belief?
Bryan May (20:57):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a combination.
I think that a lot of times inall aspects of life right now,
we're a headline nation, meaningthe post or the times or
something.
They put out an article, theyput one headline and that's what
it is, when we all know there'sthree or four sides to the
story and so you need a lot ofthings.
(21:19):
So sometimes when people saybusiness strategies yeah, that's
probably two slices of the pie,maybe even three, but it's not
the whole pie.
Something that is very importantis a plan.
Strategy is great, but you needto know where you're going.
Kind of like riding a bicycleor motorcycle wherever you're
(21:43):
looking, looking, that's usuallywhere you end up, okay,
creating this plan and you knowyou could change it along the
way.
But creating this planfinancially, um, where you want
to go, what your your overalllife plan is, and reverse
engineering it, right, this isall important.
And then really knowing whatyou want and knowing what you
don't want is all important.
(22:04):
And then really knowing whatyou want and knowing what you
don't want, right, and we don'twant to focus on what we don't
want, but we want to know what'sthere?
no-transcript.
What's your take on that?
Dr. Leah OH (22:17):
Well, I was just thinking how a lot of people
will say something like well, Iwant to make more money, but
then they don't realize, oh, butI didn't want to work those
extra hours, that now I need towork, right?
So a lot of times we will focuson one or the other, but I
think it's putting them togetherthat we recognize, like you
said, that plan becomes a lotclearer.
Bryan May (22:37):
Yeah, I mean, you know there's a good quote and I
learned it from my mentor,marshall Wilkinson.
But you know, everyone wants togo to heaven, but no one wants
to die, yep.
And so people look at certainattributes.
People look at things andthey're like I want that, but
they might not be willing to goand do what they're doing.
(22:59):
And so that's why I that'swhere social media gets a little
dark right that's where,because everyone's posting their
, their best videos, their bestlooks, except for britney spears
.
And then everyone talks crapabout britney.
Be posting something real yeahbut it's one of those things
(23:19):
it's dangerous to.
There's a difference betweencomparing and saying I want what
Mr Jones has and saying wow,look at what Mr Jones has, look
at what's possible.
And so you can look at itperspective in a very positive
way of like okay, if I do this,this, this and this, I will have
(23:40):
this.
But, if you're going to say Iwant Mr Jones' wife, I want Mr
Jones' house, I want his life.
Dr. Leah OH (23:49):
Yeah, exactly.
So maybe leaning into thismight be a nice connection.
So I was wondering if you couldgive us an example of how
you're integrating spiritualityinto your business sense and
your kind of everydayprofessional life.
Bryan May (24:04):
Definitely so.
So something that I really,really love is this idea of be
do have, okay, and and be dohave.
I just feel like everythingfalls under a category or
subcategory, and so a lot ofpeople in business, they want to
say something like I was arealtor for a long time, so I'm
(24:24):
just going to use real estate,but this could be for anything.
It's like, okay, after I sellfive houses, I'm going to tell
everyone I'm a realtor.
Dr. Leah OH (24:33):
Okay.
Bryan May (24:34):
After I have five listings after I my my photo on
the park.
I'm going to say to everyoneI'm a realtor, right, and that's
the wrong way of doing it.
We want to basically just wakeup one day and say, okay, I'm
the number one lawyer, I'm thenumber one marketing company,
I'm the number one realtor, yeah.
(24:55):
And then say to myself, okay,well, what would the number one
realtor be doing?
The number one realtor would beadvertising.
They would be taking picturesviewing houses, even if they
don't have listings.
They'd be going to houses,they'd be taking pictures,
they'd be making cold calls,they'd be knocking on doors.
(25:15):
So now you're going through itlike, okay, I am the number one
realtor, I am the number oneattorney, now this is what I'm
doing, and then I will have thestuff, instead of saying I'm
going to meet it while I havethe stuff, and then I'm going to
identify as what it is.
Dr. Leah OH (25:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly Starting that way, and
so then I'm wondering if you canshare some insights that you
found in you know integratingspirituality in that way,
instead of kind of keeping Ithink the the antiquated way is
let's keep that separate fromwork Work is work.
Spirituality or religion isoutside of work.
(25:53):
So what have you found in kindof you know merging those and
coming to work as a whole person?
Bryan May (26:02):
Totally so.
I think that it is connected.
I think that you know toseparate it.
It becomes very robotic, youknow, and you want to be that
unique person.
People want to do business withcertain people, just like
people want to date certainpeople, and people don't want to
do business with certain peopleand they don't want to date
(26:23):
certain people.
So you want to be veryauthentically you and then your
people are going to be attractedto you.
You're going to get the rightclients.
Not all money is good money.
So if you're out there andyou're just like kissing
people's butts and you're tryingto be who you think they want
to be.
(26:44):
well, they're.
Eventually, they're going tofind out that's not you, and
you're also going to be wastingtime with people that aren't
your good clients, and so Ithink that that's really
important.
I think that you know we hearthis all the time, but it's true
, you know taking time tomeditate, taking time to pray
taking time to visualize, right?
(27:04):
Yeah, I mean, visualization isso important.
And I think a lot of people.
They hear these things but theydon't really do them, and
that's why people do need acoach, that's why people do need
a mentor, that's why people doneed a teacher, because it's
different, right?
I mean, how many of us havelike seen one of these you know
quizzes?
(27:24):
Or something like that.
They sit down, they kind oflook at it.
But then if I'm asking youthose questions, you're going to
answer it, totally differentthan if you're just doing it
yourself.
Dr. Leah OH (27:35):
Yes.
Bryan May (27:35):
Yep, and so visualization look, every
Olympic athlete everyprofessional major, michael
Jordan kind of person they allvisualize.
Visualization is so importantand I think that taking time to
do that and really reallywriting notes, writing letters,
(27:59):
to your family Really createlike for me.
I love WhatsApp.
And I have groups of WhatsAppwith myself and I just make
notes and I send myself messagesto myself.
Dr. Leah OH (28:11):
Yeah, well, that's really neat.
I hadn't thought about that.
Like, I've seen apps where,like websites, where you can,
you know, send a letter toyourself to be open the next
year, five years or some point.
But I like the um, the moreinformal dialogue with self too.
Bryan May (28:29):
Yeah, I think that you know.
We have so many thoughts everyday.
We take a shower, we go to thegym, we get these thoughts, but
if we're not getting it out, ifwe're not putting it on either
paper my handwriting is awful Ifwe are not putting it on paper,
or typing it or voice, notingit to each other, to ourselves
or you know or to our team, thenyou know what is it doing it's
(28:52):
going to waste.
And that's what creates youstaying up all night.
That's what creates waking up at3am because if you would have
wrote it down before bed, thenyou wouldn't have to worry about
waking up.
So it's things like that, Ithink, are like.
That's like real practicalthing news, and I love this line
Pray as if it already happened.
Dr. Leah OH (29:14):
You know really being grateful and praying as if
it already happened.
Bryan May (29:18):
I think that's really something that's special.
Dr. Leah OH (29:26):
Yeah, yeah, I agree .
So I have two final questionsfor you, brian, and this is the
way we end all of ourcommunicative leader episodes.
So it's a two-parter.
So the first one is thinkingabout, you know, pragmatic
leadership or communicationadvice, a challenge, a tip for
our titled leaders out there.
And then the second part isagain that advice, tip or
challenge to employees of allranks, across all industries.
Bryan May (29:51):
Yeah, so for title leaders, you know, authenticity
is important right.
When you look at the leaders ofbig businesses that are all out
there, whether they're lean tothe left or to the right, they
usually are characters.
They're usually themselves.
So I think that that's reallyimportant.
Leading from the front.
(30:11):
Right Look Elon Musk, sleeping,sleeping at SpaceX.
Right sleeping at SpaceX right,jeff Bezos starting it in his
garage, things like that.
You know the front forimportant.
Have a shared vision, right?
Like, not everyone is going tobe the right people for you.
Not every vendor is going to bethe right person, not every
(30:34):
accountant, every lawyer, everyemployee, like if you see that
someone is just doesn't have thevision.
Every employee, like, if yousee that someone is just doesn't
have the vision you got to letthem know.
You want to have people and youwant to have loyalty, and so you
want to treat the people rightwhen when they have the loyalty
you want to be able tocompensate them in any.
Sometimes it's just giving thema title and sometimes it's
(30:54):
giving them more money.
But people will realize, asthey're in the business long
enough, that finding new peoplesometimes is a lot harder than
they think.
And you know something that Ireally like and it could be for
employees, it could be for titleleaders but treating people
like you want the outcome to beso.
(31:15):
If you're in sales, treat abuyer like a buyer.
If you're dealing with sellers,treat a seller like a seller.
If you're going up to someoneand asking them on a date, treat
them like you're going to sayyes.
Treat people like they're goingto say yes.
You know, like cold calling,just, for example, right, cold
outreach, which is still huge inbusiness today.
(31:36):
If you're going to call and beapologetic I'm sorry for
bothering you blah, blah, blah,it's not going to work.
But if you call and you justtreat them like someone that
wants and needs service, peopleare still going to say no.
That's not the point.
The point of it is when someonesays yes, they're really dialed
into you.
We got to really remove theno's into you.
(32:02):
We got to really remove theno's, really remove the negative
comments.
Remove the trash talk, the pagesix, and just concentrate.
Our people are our people.
And if half the country hatesyou, you could be president.
Dr. Leah OH (32:10):
Yeah, exactly, and with that, treat them as buyers,
treat them as sellers.
Your persuasion, like you'resaying, that's different.
You're going in with adifferent set of rhetoric.
Your tone is going to bedifferent, your posture,
everything is going to betweaked in the way that aligns
(32:32):
with your intended outcome.
Bryan May (32:34):
Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I say to people
is let's say, you're a companyand you're pitching your idea.
Now, if I tell you hey, I knowfor a fact that these guys
really like us.
I know for a fact they reallyneed this kind of product.
This is going to be a home run,but we really got to put on our
(32:55):
best show.
They want to feel like we'redoing it the right way.
Now think about how you'regoing to go into that meeting,
versus me saying, okay, I made acold call.
This guy's name is John Smith,I don't know, anything about him
.
I don't know if he's interested,but you know what, just go out
there and pitch him.
It's going to be like night andday, it's going to be talking
(33:16):
to a guy on New York city streetversus doing a TED talk, and so
that's what I mean we have totreat people like the outcome we
want.
Dr. Leah OH (33:25):
Yes, yeah, that's really powerful and that's
something that many people thinkabout.
So I think we get so lost inthe nerves, the emotions, the
what ifs that prevents that inmany cases.
Bryan May (33:39):
Totally.
And then for employees, youknow, I think, really knowing
and really having a good idea ofwhere you're going.
Okay, if you want to have lunchand you want to go home and be
home by five, or six o'clock andyou want to clock out and not
have to worry about, besidesmaybe some emails you're okay
(34:01):
with 80, 100, 150, whatever itmight be, that's okay, just
accept that, and then let's justbe the best version of that,
right?
But if you want to do more, andyou want to be at that C-suite
or you want to do next level?
Well then, you have to knowwhere you're going.
You have to have that place soyou can get to that level.
You want to get a mentor, youwant to prepare, you want to
(34:27):
have a roadmap and you want tospeak to people in the
organization right, you want tomake sure you're speaking to the
right people and you'rebecoming friendly with the right
people and finding like-mindedpeople.
Once again, it's not about, oh,this person is in charge, so
I'm going to like the Giantsbecause they like the Giants.
It's like okay, this is who Iam.
This person is a COO.
I like him, I like her.
(34:48):
They seem cool, we seem like webond.
Okay, so let's focus on thatperson.
Let's not pretend that we'rethis other guy.
That's never going to work.
It's not going to build thelong bonds, and in the corporate
world things don't happenovernight.
People are waiting years andyears and all these people to
move around to get thatpromotion.
Dr. Leah OH (35:12):
And I always think about the cognitive lift it is
to you pretend you like thegiants with them and then you've
got to keep that going, whilealso you know answering all of
the other strategic workquestions.
I mean, it's just, it's not,there's no, there's no return on
investment there.
Bryan May (35:32):
There isn't, there isn't, and also you're.
You're making your brain workfive to 10 times.
Dr. Leah OH (35:37):
Yeah, exactly.
Bryan May (35:39):
And then you know what.
What happens is you go to theChristmas party, you have two
drinks and then the real youcome out.
You get angry.
You get angry, you go into thedrawer at work, which is
different than going to thedrawer at home.
Dr. Leah OH (35:52):
Yeah.
Bryan May (35:52):
And then you know Stella from next door didn't put
things back.
You flip out and now everyonesees the real you yeah didn't
put things back, you flip outand now everyone sees the real
you.
You're at a place for eight to10 hours every single day of
your life.
Eventually the real you isgoing to come out.
You can't have bad days, butyou just want to be yourself,
(36:18):
and it's just like I always usethis analogy that I absolutely
love, which I love pizza, samesame.
So you go to the pizza store,every pizza store has the
Hawaiian slice, but almost noone has ever ordered it.
No one's ever seen anyone orderit.
But it's there, so you knowpeople are ordering it.
So we want to be the Hawaiianslice.
Dr. Leah OH (36:35):
We don't want to be the regular slice.
Bryan May (36:37):
That's good.
We want to know that whensomeone orders the Hawaiian
slice, they really love it.
Dr. Leah OH (36:42):
Yes, yeah, yeah, I really like that.
Oh, that's funny.
So my spouse actually likesHawaiian pizza he's the only one
and we met some friends andthey were like you like this too
, and like now it's when we seethis family, they always show up
with this Hawaiian pizza andthey're both so happy.
But yeah, I really really likethat idea of it.
(37:05):
Yeah.
Bryan May (37:06):
Yeah, you want to just be yourself, you want to be
in lane.
I think that you know, likewhen something in business works
, people copy it and that'sthere's.
There's levels to it, right?
We don't want to get a blackand white on and off thinking
right.
There's Wendy's, there's BurgerKing, there's McDonald's,
there's Chipotle, there's thisright.
Multiple things can work, butwe still want to.
(37:29):
We want it to be us.
We don't want to just be simplya copy.
Dr. Leah OH (37:35):
Yep, exactly Well, brian.
Thank you for joining us todayon the Communicative Leader.
This has been a really fun andinsightful conversation and I'm
excited to share it with ourlisteners.
Bryan May (37:46):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate theopportunity and it's just been
great to connect.
Dr. Leah OH (37:52):
All right, my friends.
That wraps up our conversationtoday.
Until next time, communicatewith intention and lead with
purpose.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith you again soon on the
Communicative Leader.
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