March 3, 2025 • 54 mins
Leadership today demands a blend of intentional communication and conscious practices. Aang's journey from traditional authoritative roles to conscious leadership highlights the need for adaptability and self-awareness in leaders. We explore how intentional listening, empathy, and environmental awareness play crucial roles in effective leadership.
• Discussion around conscious leadership principles
• The importance of intentional communication and its impact
• Strategies for fostering a supportive organizational culture
• Reflection and adaptability as key leadership skills
• Empowering individuals at all levels to lead and influence
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Leah OH (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of the Communicative
Leader.
I'm your host, Dr Leah OH, andtoday we have a special guest
whose insights into consciousleadership and intentional
communication are helping totransform the way organizations
operate in today's fast-pacedlandscape.
To leaders in the US Army andfederal government, they are
(00:29):
renowned for their expertise inself-improvement through
conscious leadership.
In a world where a recentDeloitte survey revealed that a
staggering 94% of executivesbelieve strong leadership is
critical to business success,Aang's work is more relevant
than ever.
They emphasize the power ofintentional communication and
how it can help to reshapeorganizational culture,
(00:51):
fostering environments whereleaders and teams are set up to
thrive.
Today, we're going to exploreAang's journey into leadership
advisory, uncover the essence ofconscious leadership and delve
into practical strategies forenhancing communication in your
teams.
Let's have some fun.
(01:11):
Hello and welcome to theCommunicative Leader hosted by
me, Dr Leah Omilion- Hodges.
My friends call me Dr O.
I'm a professor ofcommunication, and a leadership
communication expert.
On the Communicative Leader,we're working to make your work
life what you want it to be.
Aang, thank you so much forjoining us today on the
(01:33):
Communicative Leader.
I'm really excited for ourconversation.
Before we dive into that, I washoping you could give some
insight into your background andyour journey that led you to
advise leaders in the US Army,the federal government, among
many others.
Aang Lakey (01:49):
Yeah, of course no.
Thank you so much, Leah, forhaving me.
I'm super excited to be hereand I love talking about this
work and the work that I do, andI just am so passionate about
it and so I love having theopportunity.
So thank you so much for havingme on the show.
A little bit about mybackground.
I sort of I grew up in povertyand I ended up joining the army
(02:13):
as sort of my way out of thatenvironment, and so I never
really anticipated that I wouldbe where I am today in terms of,
you know, advising leadershipteams, and even the work that I
am doing in the way that I'mdoing it in the world has only
come to life for me recently,after you know the life
(02:34):
experience that I've had, thedifferent roles that I've held
in the different organizations,all of which that kind of led me
into this field, and so, youknow, I did join the Army.
I ended up commissioning in theArmy, becoming an Army officer,
and you know my leadershipjourney in that regard was very
much focused in on anauthoritative style, which is
(02:59):
not congruent at all with youknow who I wanted to be, and
also you know my graduate workwas in social work and then
human relations and organizationdevelopment.
So, learning all of thedifferent leadership styles and
really trying to figure out howdo I align myself with these,
and you know the work that I'vedone in terms of starting in
(03:23):
crisis, crisis response,transitioning into violence
prevention, helping leadersunderstand how to prevent
violence in their organizations,and how that kind of shifted
for me over the years into doingequal opportunity work and
diversity inclusion work andultimately to where I am now,
which is advising leaders on,you know, basic leadership
(03:46):
skills that are related topreventing violence across the
spectrum, and so you know, asfar as my story or my background
, it's really been a culminationof everything that has happened
for me in my life and, yeah, Ithink integrating consciousness
(04:07):
into leadership, which is thearea that I'm focusing in on now
, has been a turning point forme in really helping me to feel
more authentic and genuine inwho I am and how I lead, and
also how I work with leadershipteams to develop how they want
to lead.
And so, yeah, I'll pause thereand say, hopefully that's enough
(04:31):
.
Yeah, sure We'll get into it.
Dr. Leah OH (04:34):
Exactly Well.
Thank you, and I was justsaying I really you know it's an
intro question, but it oftenends up being one of my favorite
because your backgroundincluded.
You see it really as a journeyand you recognize this isn't
something you go to bed onenight, make a wish and wake up
the next day fully actualizedinto that place where you really
(04:56):
want to be.
You recognize it's theculmination of all those steps
and all of that work that's gonein to date.
Aang Lakey (05:05):
Yeah, I was just chatting this morning with a
friend of mine and we weretalking about, you know, the
seemingly unimportant thingsthat happen to you in your life
which lead you in one direction,and how you don't really think
about it until you're forced toconfront all like why did you
(05:25):
choose this path and why are youdoing this work?
And you know, I only juststarted getting into podcasts
and forcing myself to think inthis mindset and you know it's
been such an awareness journeyfor me to reflect on my own
reverse gap and how I got towhere I am and to articulate
(05:46):
that in a way that's meaningfulto people, and I think it's.
There's just something sospecial about taking the time to
force yourself to look at thatjourney and how you, how you
ended up where you are.
Dr. Leah OH (06:00):
I never, I never, thought I would be anywhere near
where I am doing anything likewhat I'm doing, but somehow my
journey has led me here, that isincredible, and so I know a big
part of that journey, of whereyou are now, is about conscious
leadership, and I was hoping youcould kind of define that for
(06:22):
us in the way that you thinkabout it and then help us to
understand what it looks likeand I'm thinking look like if
I'm in an organization, how do Iknow if I'm embodying this or
my leader is.
What are kind of thosehallmarks?
Aang Lakey (06:36):
Yeah, well, I definitely tend to think about
it in terms or I prefer to thinkabout it in terms of
integrating consciousness intoour leadership.
And so there are so manydifferent leadership styles, and
regardless of what style youchoose, I think there's an
aspect of still needing tointegrate consciousness into
(06:58):
that.
And so when I think about thework that I do, I like to think
about it in terms of integratingconsciousness into that.
And we all know that the bestleaders have an adaptable style
that they're able to adjust andto be flexible in terms of the
teams that they're with, becauseevery environment and every
context is different.
(07:20):
And so when I think aboutintegrating consciousness, I
think about consciousness interms of just a general
awareness of who are we, who arethe people who are around us,
and how do we interact with them.
And then, how are we allinterconnected across the globe
in terms of as human beings, assentient beings and those kinds
(07:41):
of things, and how does theinteraction of all of three of
those layers kind of impact thelarger system and so the world,
the universe in general?
And so when I think aboutintegrating consciousness from
that aspect into leadership, Ithink about it in a very clear,
(08:02):
like systemic approach, in termsof every action that I take as
a leader is going to impactmyself, it's going to impact my
(08:28):
team.
How can I make the best impactthat I can make?
And I think, when I think aboutconscious leadership, I think
about it in that regard,consciously or intentionally,
thinking about the actions thatyou take, the decisions that you
make and how that is going toinfluence all three of those
levels, so the personal level,the social level and the
(08:49):
societal level.
Dr. Leah OH (08:50):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I really appreciate thesimplicity in that, because it's
such a profound and expansiveway of understanding and
interacting and you really helpdistill that in a way that feels
a lot more tangible.
Aang Lakey (09:09):
Yeah, and I think I never, I never intended to do,
to do things the way that I doit.
But I'll never forget anexperience I had with my advisor
, my academic advisor, my firstgraduate program, and I just
constantly was feeling like Icouldn't keep up.
I didn't understand because Ireally I didn't like the
(09:32):
theoretical perspectives.
I wanted to know, like, how isthis information going to help
me and how do I implement thisin my life?
And I'll never forget that.
You know she shared with methat it's such a unique way of
looking at the world.
Many people like know andunderstand the theory and they,
they know that it's important,but they don't know how to
(09:52):
actually implement it inpractice.
And she, she shared with methat one of my gifts was, you
know, the ability to take thatand to to make it tangible and
to make it fit into the, intothe world.
And you know that was 20 yearsago and now and I only just came
to my own realization of partof what I do as a coach and as a
(10:14):
consultant is helpingindividuals take these massive
concepts and kind of define themand refine them for for them to
know how do you actually usethis in practice, because you
know, I say this all the time,but I think it's the most
important thing, like knowledgeis useful or, excuse me, useless
to us unless we know how toactually implement it.
(10:35):
And so, like, how do we developour competence in that?
And we can't have competenceunless we understand the most
basic level of it, and so Iappreciate you saying that,
thank you.
Dr. Leah OH (10:47):
Yeah, so when you're thinking, when you're
walking us through kind ofconscious leadership.
You brought up the wordintentional and I know that this
is another major focus in yourwork, this intentional
communication.
So can you share sometechniques that you kind of
coach others or you've hadsuccess with in enhancing their
(11:09):
communication skills, butparticularly in regard to being
very intentional?
Aang Lakey (11:14):
Yeah, I will say that this is one of my favorite
areas to talk about, becauseit's such a foundational aspect
of the work, and you know, I'lltalk a lot about reflexivity,
probably in a moment.
But since you asked mespecifically about
intentionality, intention islike the baseline of everything
(11:37):
that we do, and when we thinkabout intention in terms of
communication, it's listening tounderstand instead of listening
to respond.
And I think when we think aboutbringing intention into our
communication, it's aboutrecognizing what are the
behaviors, what are the actionsthat I'm taking.
(12:00):
That is, actually showingsomeone that I care about what
they're saying and I am tryingto understand what they're
saying.
And because I think so oftenmiscommunications happen in any
environment, but especially inthe workplace, when people are
not listening to understand, andso you know you asked me for
some examples, and so one of themost critical things that I
(12:24):
learned early on doing crisiswork was you know, so often I
would have people who would comeinto my office and want to sit
and talk with me, and you knowpeople who've experienced
terrible traumas that theyshould never have experienced,
but then you know to have totalk to someone about that in a
space that maybe doesn't feelsafe.
And so you know, I was in thearmy at the time and so I had
(12:48):
this massive U-shaped desk and Ihad multiple computer screens
and a phone and, like my cellphones and everything, and it
was just, it was the biggestdistraction because, you know,
when someone is sharinginformation, hard, traumatic
information, you know one of thebest things that you can do is
to actually get yourself out ofthat situation.
(13:10):
And so you know, it took me along time to learn, as someone
who wants to have a safe andopen space, that I actually had
to get up and get away from mydesk.
I had to get away from mycomputers, I had to get away
from the phones, I had to, like,sit with the person.
And so I ended up having toadjust my physical environment,
my physical space, to reflectlike what, where can we sit when
(13:33):
people come into my office?
That shows them that I'm, I'mlistening to them and I want to
be there with them and I want tobe away from the distractions.
And so I think, when we talkabout intention, it's about are
you being intentional about thephysical space and are you being
intentional about your actionsand your behaviors and so
removing barriers, whetherthey're physical barriers,
(13:53):
whether they're perceptions likeyour computer and your phone,
like, am I constantly glaring atmy computer?
Am I constantly looking at myphone?
Like the really basic thingsthat, especially in an office
environment, you, you forgetsometimes and so bring by
bringing intention.
It's about reminding yourselfokay, I need to get up and I
(14:14):
need to go, I need to go awayfrom this, this situation, Right
.
And so I think I think about thephysical space, I think about
my behaviors and actions, andthen I also think about things
like, you know, did I ask thisperson where they're most
comfortable connecting?
Maybe they don't want to sit inmy office, but the only way
(14:36):
they knew to get in contact withme in private was to come to my
office.
And so, asking myself, did Iask them, you know, is this an
okay space for you?
Would you rather go somewhereelse?
And you know, being intentionalabout how do I make them feel
safe, how do I make them feellike I'm here to be available to
them and also justdemonstrating.
(14:57):
It's talked about our actionsand behaviors, but am I
demonstrating to the individualthat I'm sitting with, that I
care about what they're saying?
You know, am I?
Am I using my body language toshow them that I'm interested?
Am I looking at them?
Am I kind of responding backand asking for clarification,
asking that I understand whatthey're saying?
(15:19):
You know just really basicthings that were caught up in
the day to day of you know, I'vegot 100 emails to get through
and then I've got a meeting in10 minutes.
Like forcing yourself to saythe meeting will wait, the
emails will wait, I want to behere and I want to be with you,
and the impact of of this I havefound to be transformational,
(15:41):
I'll say in the work, and youknow I definitely, when I find
myself not aligning with mydesires in this regard, I can
see and I can feel the otherperson's discomfort in that.
Dr. Leah OH (16:01):
Yeah Well, thank you, that's a really thoughtful
answer, and I really appreciateyou bringing in the physical
space as well, because I thinkthat's one that's so often
overlooked.
We're spending a lot of timethinking about word choice.
We're thinking about, like yousaid, the act of listening.
We're not thinking like am Ihaving to peek around a screen
(16:23):
or does that?
Aang Lakey (16:30):
Yeah, and it's especially hard and I don't know
that I would have thought aboutit too too much, but I have a.
I have a traumatic brain injuryand so I get distracted very
easily and I had to have otherpeople tell me like I need you
to focus on me right now and Ineed you to listen to what I'm
(16:50):
saying, because it doesn't seemlike you're listening to what
I'm saying, you know.
So like having to force myselfinto that mindset.
And for me, you know, anotherexample of kind of what I do is
I have a checklist.
When someone walks into myoffice, I go through this
checklist in my head in terms ofget up, get away from your
computer, sit in the chairs.
I go through this checklistwith myself.
(17:11):
And when I talk about bringingintention, I think that that's
what it is.
How, how are you going tointentionally show whether it's
a teammate or someone who needsto connect with you for whatever
reason?
Like, how are you going to showthe people in your life that
you actually want to communicatewith them and, especially when
we get into really hard topics,uh, showing them that you're
(17:35):
committed to that conversation,regardless of how it's going?
Dr. Leah OH (17:38):
So, yeah, yeah, so you've also brought up this idea
of transformation and I'm goingto look at that in terms of
cultures, especially inorganizations and as an OrgCom
scholar.
We are so nerdy but we kind ofjoke.
If you want to change acompany's culture, fine, it's
(17:58):
easy.
Just fire everyone and startover.
So you know it's reallychallenging.
But I know a lot of your workis focused on helping to
transform cultures throughconscious leadership, so I'm
wondering if you can walk usthrough some practical steps
that leaders can take so they'restarting to model this culture
(18:22):
of openness and awareness withintheir teams.
Aang Lakey (18:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
This is one of my favoritethings to talk about because
it's so basic and it's so easy,but it's so hard to do in
practice and especially withleaders.
And so obviously there areusually layers of leaders in the
(18:47):
organization and the higher yougo in that layered path, the
less time that you have to thinkand to do.
And so I think the higher youare in that organizational
structure, the more important itis to dedicate time to think
and to do.
(19:08):
And I'm going to say this and Ithink terms that are very
simplistic but they're socritical to actually changing
the culture.
And so I would say, probablythe first thing is what is the
culture that you want?
And say it out loud and say itregularly.
And so if you want to have aculture that values openness and
(19:31):
values communication and valuesyou know a growth mindset or a
learning organization, then youneed to constantly say that you
know our culture is built onhaving a growth mindset, having
a learning organization, havingopen conversations and
communicating with clarity andwith ease.
So you need to say it out loud,regularly, regularly.
(19:54):
And I think the second part tothat, so two parts to this first
part, one of saying it out loud.
And the second part is actuallydemonstrating it in every
interaction that you have.
And so, especially if you aresaying it out loud, you have to
follow through with thedemonstration, because if you
don't follow through with thedemonstration, then you're
lacking in your own congruence,which is hurting the culture and
(20:17):
hurting the environment thatyou're trying to build.
And so say it out loud and thendemonstrating it in all of your
actions, and I love, I thinkit's.
Harvard Business Review says itin a way that I just love, in a
(20:38):
way that I just love, and it's avisible commitment, and so do
your teams see you doing.
The things that you're sayingare important, and so I read
that in one of their articlesand it has just stuck with me
for forever.
But visible commitment is so,so important, so important.
(21:17):
And then I also think there'san aspect of recognizing and,
even if it doesn't go the waythat it's supposed to go, you
know being able to say you know,this is something that we value
.
We want to be a learningorganization, we want to learn
and grow, and you took this step.
Even though it didn't go theway that we wanted to like, we
still learned this from thiscircumstance, and so constantly
(21:40):
reiterating, like here's what wesaid we wanted.
Someone actually did it andeven though we didn't get the
results that we want, we'restill creating and building this
culture and we still learnedfrom that instance.
And so saying it, demonstrating, demonstrating it and then
recognizing and celebrating whenpeople are doing it yeah, and I
love that bringing in.
(22:00):
Sorry, I forget this part somuch, but it's also really,
really important, and that is um, holding people appropriately
accountable to, to and so like,especially if you you're trying
to change the and so like,especially if you you're trying
to change the culture, and soyou have a culture that's
negative and you want to adjustthat culture, it's not going to
(22:22):
change unless we areconsistently calling out and
holding people accountable towhatever those those changes are
.
And you know, sometimes in myown brain I try to keep it as
simple as possible, but I thinkis also one of those very simple
things that is consistentlyoverlooked, and so I'm so sorry,
I just I wanted to say that,yeah, no, I think that's great
(22:42):
and it's kind of what I wasthinking.
Dr. Leah OH (22:45):
So I love the the focus on the celebration part.
So I think a lot of timesorganizations, especially
leaders, who mean well butaren't necessarily being
intentional.
They get stuck on people'sshortcomings or the flaws and
certainly if that's underminingthe efforts, then that needs to
be addressed appropriately.
(23:06):
But we don't spend very muchtime celebrating when people are
actually doing it and thenyou're trying.
You know maybe you're beingvulnerable or just trying
something new and if no onegives you any feedback, we don't
know if it's working.
Like, am I doing this, am I not?
So I love that you integratethat as part of that.
Aang Lakey (23:28):
Yeah, it's definitely an area I'm not
really sure when it came into mylike consciousness, uh, in
terms of helping leaders to tounderstand the importance of
this, but in so manyorganizations, recognition has
been such a huge component inthe, the feedback that that the
(23:49):
leadership teams have gotten,and especially when you think
about it in terms of of culturechange like recognizing people
for their accomplishments is isone thing, but taking it to that
next level of recognizingpeople when they're actually
doing the behaviors that youwant them to do is so important,
and I'm a social worker too, soI believe very strongly in a
strengths based approach and youknow, so often I feel like
(24:13):
people do go to that negativelike you're wrong, we need to
fix it, kind of a thing, andinstead of this is what right
looks like to help people know.
You know, this is what we wantyou to do.
Dr. Leah OH (24:24):
And I think it's simple.
Yeah, I love that.
And then I think part of thisconversation, too, is becoming
you talked about beingreflective, and I think this is
part of it is being aware ofyour unconscious biases, and we
know that so often, without evenmeaning to.
A lot of times, these biases wemight not even be aware of.
(24:47):
They start to undermine ourability to communicate and to
connect.
So, with the work that you dowith training you know, what
strategies do you recommend forhelping people to recognize,
address them, especially ifwe're in a title leadership
position and we'reunintentionally modeling
behavior that we don't evendesire, that we would not
(25:10):
encourage or want others to do?
Aang Lakey (25:14):
Yeah, such a great question and there are so many
ways to answer the question.
I think what I'm going to do isI'm going to give a broad
answer of developing a cycle ofreflexivity and I'll share just
(25:34):
a little bit about what I seethat as and how to incorporate
that.
But I think there's a couple ofother components that are also
really important, and that ismindset.
And so if you do not alreadyknow and understand the impact
that society has on us in termsof the norms and the culture
(25:55):
that we kind of grow up in andhow that impacts us, I would say
it definitely starts with amindset of recognition that
every single person has beensocialized in different parts of
the world with different waysof thinking and different ways
of being.
And when we can recognize thatfor the globe, then it's much
(26:22):
easier for us to say what arethe ways that I was socialized
that don't match with either whoI want to be or who I need to
be as a leader, and so I thinkthere's a mindset component of
it.
And then, once you have anunderstanding of that, then it's
(26:44):
about having a reflexivitypractice where you can
constantly evaluate yourself andmake adjustments based on that
process, and so when I talkabout reflexivity with leaders,
I talk about it in a cycle ofself-awareness, self-evaluation
and self-adjustment.
So there's kind of three partsto this, and almost all
(27:07):
leadership curriculum includes aself-awareness aspect, but
rarely do those leadershipcurriculums go into the
self-adjustment aspect, and soif they, if they talk about
self-awareness, they likely aretalking about self-evaluations
and they may talk about it fromthe standpoint of you know,
(27:28):
here's some evaluations that youcan do to like self-define
where you're at.
But when I talk aboutevaluation, it's not just about
the criteria or the assessmentsthat you take, but it's also
about engaging with other people, like, who are the people in
your life that you're engagingwith?
How are you engaging with them,and are you actually asking
(27:50):
them if you're meeting theirneeds, whether it's your partner
, whether it is your familymembers, whether it's your team,
if you're meeting their needs,whether it's your partner,
whether it is your familymembers, whether it's your team,
if you're leading a team and ifyou're leading an organization,
the employees at large.
But so often I think, when wethink about self-evaluation, we
don't think about it in thecontext of the people that we
interact with every day, who whohave a much better and clearer
(28:14):
picture of who we are and howwe're being.
And I say this you know,sometimes I tell a story.
I have a, I have a head injuryand, um, you know, one of my
partners had to to tell me, likesome, something ain't right
with you, like you're gettingirritable, you're forgetting,
forgetting key details, like Inever would have seen that, and
(28:35):
if I didn't have someone wholoved me and cared about me
enough to say, like you're notliving in alignment with your
values right now, you need tomake some decisions, then I
wouldn't have been able to learnand grow.
Is the moment of I took myassessment.
I um reflected on my values, Ireflected on my beliefs, but at
(28:57):
the same time, it's also who arethe people in my lives that can
see me for who I am and me forwho I'm being, and and who are
also the people who know who Iwant to be in the world and who
can give me an assessment ofwhether or not I am living in
that person's can't think of theword.
(29:21):
Am I living in accordance withthat person's values?
And so self-evaluation isreally important, expanding our
view on what self-evaluation isfor, but the most important
thing is making adjustmentsbased on that insight.
And so, example, going back tothe example with my partner,
like it's one thing to know thatI get irritable and that I
(29:43):
sometimes forget the key details, and it's another thing to just
accept that for what it is andsay I have a head injury, got
something I got to live with,right.
And it's another thing to say Idon't have to live like this if
I know that I have this, thisproblem.
And for me, kindness has alwaysbeen one of my core values.
(30:04):
And so, you know, my partnerwas like you know that your
value is kindness, and when youget irritable you are not a kind
person, you know.
And me having to say you knowthat I do not want to be the
person who is irritable andmakes people upset, like that is
not in alignment with who I am.
So then how do I change mybehaviors to not be that person
(30:27):
so that I can live in alignmentwith my values?
So that self adjustmentcomponent is I see, I understand
that I'm not living inalignment with that values.
And now what do I actually haveto do?
And so for me it was acontinuous cycle of I'm getting
irritable.
I can see it in the moment.
Now I'm like practicing my deepbreathing.
(30:49):
I am doing all of the thingsI'm supposed to be doing, but
I'm still really irritable.
I am doing all of the thingsI'm supposed to be doing, but
I'm still really irritable, andso like constantly going back to
okay, I tried this, it didn'twork, I tried this, it didn't
work.
And so what is the thing that'sgoing to, that's going to help
me when I'm in that moment?
And it's such a it's an ongoingpractice, you know it's not
(31:10):
like I did it and it didn't workfor me.
Therefore, I go back to who I am.
It didn't work.
So what's next?
How do I?
How do I get to that?
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Dr. Leah OH (31:23):
Yeah, so I think you're right.
It's it's so hard.
It's an ongoing commitment,it's a promise to yourself and
to those around you, but it isnot easy.
Aang Lakey (31:34):
Yeah, yeah, Um yeah, I think I think I'll probably
in there, but did I answer thequestion fully in terms of?
Dr. Leah OH (31:44):
Yeah, yeah, I think , yeah, yeah, really really
thoughtful insights there.
So we're still I still want totalk a little bit more about
self-improvement, and I knowthat's a space that you like to
do a lot of work in, and youmentioned a Deloitte survey.
It says that 94% of executivesbelieve strong leadership is
(32:06):
critical to business success.
Press to find people who don'tagree with that, and I'm
wondering, too, if you couldintegrate the self-improvement
thread and kind of tell us, fromyour perspective, what role
self-improvement plays indeveloping strong leaders.
Aang Lakey (32:23):
Yeah.
So I think for me, you cannotbe a leader and not have some
sort of self-improvement routineor process in your life.
I think it is the mostimportant aspect of being a
leader, and so, regardless ofwhat level you're at in the
organization, your role as aleader is constantly changing
(32:47):
and adapting, and you have to beable to see the context and see
the people in the environmentthat we're constantly reflecting
on and we're constantly askingourselves what are the things
(33:17):
that I need to know, how do Ineed to know them, what
circumstances does each one ofthese areas come into my style,
and those kinds of things thenwe're never going to be able to
meet the needs of theorganization.
We're not going to be able tomeet the needs of ourselves in
terms of, you know, leading andmanaging a team to make sure
(33:38):
that they're operatingefficiently, in those kinds of
things.
And so I think if we don't haveself-improvement routines in
our lives for me I would saythat the most important one is
the cycle of reflexivity, and soif we don't have something like
that in our lives, then we'regoing to miss out on knowing and
(34:00):
understanding not only thecontext and the circumstances,
but how our leadership playsinto that and how we need to
adjust to be the best in eachone of those circumstances.
And so so much of leadership, Ithink, is adaptability.
You know, if we don't have aself-improvement mindset and
(34:24):
routine, then I think we'remissing out.
And of course, you can look atself-awareness in all different
kinds of aspects, but for me, Ithink, the core ones that I
ended up talking about are interms of, like, building better
relationships and building ourown resilience and understanding
.
And so there's so much in theworld that we don't know and
(34:46):
that we don't understand, andthe more that we know, the more
that we realize we don't know.
And so it's so important for usto continuously learn and get
information and to grow and todevelop.
And, like I said before, likemy entire journey, I had no idea
that I would be here where I amtoday, and that happened
(35:09):
because I was continuouslylearning and growing in
different ways and in ways thatI never even thought that I
could.
And I think you know, if you'renot doing that, you're not
serving yourself and you're notserving anyone else.
(35:41):
If the expectations are foremployees to adapt and teams and
the organizations to adapt.
It makes sense that you needleaders that are modeling that
and embracing that.
Yeah, yeah, and I think it's sohard for leaders in general to
want to be vulnerable and tostep into that moment especially
.
You know, a lot of my work isin the military and it's in the
government where people areexpected to like, know and
understand and be quote superior.
I hate using that word but,like you know, there's so many
(36:04):
expectations placed on leadersbut the reality is like if the
leader knew everything, theywouldn't need to have a team of
advisors advising them.
Dr. Leah OH (36:13):
Exactly Yep, and so this next question is what I'm
really?
I've just really personallyinterested in common challenges.
So with these leaders thatyou've worked with that can be,
you know, current past, Iimagine there are a number of
very similar challenges that youcontinue to see or hear.
(36:34):
So, one, what are some of thesecommon challenges that leaders
face when they're trying toimplement these self-improvement
practices?
And then, two, what are some ofthe ways that they can kind of
overcome these hurdles?
Aang Lakey (36:47):
Yeah Well, I think the common challenges are
definitely different dependingon the types of organizations
and the teams that you'reworking with.
Mine have, again, historicallybeen government employees,
military services and especiallyin those environments.
Uh, probably two, two keythings.
(37:08):
First, I would say, is anunderstanding of the quote
softer skills, and so theperception that leaders look at
in this environment.
Look at that.
So soft skills are notnecessarily as important as
managing the budget and makingsure their performance
(37:29):
appraisals are completedadministratively correctly and
like some of the other thingsthat other people think are more
important.
So looking at it as a softskill and a kind of a negative
perception.
And then the other thing I wouldsay is also time.
You know, I worked with themost senior levels in all of the
organizations that I've workedin and they are consistently
(37:51):
consistent managing numerousportfolios and they have to,
they have to know when they haveto understand all of the key
areas of that and in doing thatit requires so much time and
energy from them.
And so you know, lack of timeand then also not seeing it as
as important of a skill.
(38:11):
And so I think, for for me,when I talk about what leaders
need to do, and it's bringingintention to the skills and then
also bringing intention intocreating the time to do these
kinds of things.
And when leaders do find goodways, meaningful ways for them
(38:36):
to incorporate it in theirschedule, they almost always say
that it was the best thing thatthey could have done.
And so, in terms of likemeditation, everyone's like I
don't have time to meditate.
But then, if they don't,meditate.
They're like I can't do anythingbecause I didn't meditate,
(38:58):
helping them to understand theimportance of the skills and
bringing intention to that.
Uh yeah, and you know I share alittle bit about vulnerability
too it's probably really uhmatches well here in terms of a
lot of times they don't want to.
Leaders don't want to be seenas vulnerable.
They want to to, to be seen asa strong leader, a resilient
(39:19):
leader and someone who knowswhat they're doing and anytime
there's an incongruence withthem, their competence in a
specific area, it makes themfeel really hesitant and it
makes them want to step back.
And I think the most importantthing that they can do in those
moments is to step into that andto recognize you know, I don't
(39:42):
know everything and, like I havea team of people here to help
me, because you know I valueyour input and you're the
subject matter expert Like I'vegot, you know, 50 other things
on my to-do list today and and Ican't dedicate the mental space
to this that you can dedicateto this and so, um, being able
(40:02):
to, to recognize that inpositive and meaningful ways, I
think is um a part of a part ofthat process, and you can't do
that without having, uh well,accepting the vulnerability of
saying I, I don't know this, andwithout the mindset of
recognizing that I'm notactually expected to know
(40:25):
everything and that I have ateam for a reason and some of
those things.
So, I think, developing yourmindset around that and then
also recognizing the importanceof vulnerability, and I won't go
too much into that.
But there are many, manypositive benefits of
acknowledging vulnerability.
But since you asked it in thecontext of the challenges, I'll
just leave it there.
Dr. Leah OH (40:45):
Yeah, well, that's really helpful and that is it's
something I'm happy.
As a scholar in this area, I'vebeen seeing even more academic
research and having moreconversations about it, and I
don't know that we've hit ourtipping point yet, but we're
heading in the right direction,which gives me a lot of hope for
(41:05):
the way people are going toexperience organizations in the
future.
Aang Lakey (41:10):
Yeah, yeah, I definitely think that we're at a
place where the bestorganizations are recognizing
that the skills that theyoverlooked in the past are the
skills that are going to getthem to the next level.
Dr. Leah OH (41:26):
Yes, yes, I agree.
So your last question, I think,will be able to bring in that
vulnerability and certainlyself-reflection and thinking
about if someone is listening tothis or they've done some
reading or they've been hearingabout conscious leadership and
they want to try and lean moreinto it.
(41:48):
What are some of thesefoundational principles that
they should begin or startmaking a plan for in order to
improve and start embodyingconscious leadership?
Aang Lakey (42:01):
Okay, Um, I think I'll probably stick to what I've
shared a little bit aboutalready, which is the the cycle
of reflexivity and incorporatingthat into your daily practices.
And so let me share in terms ofan example.
(42:22):
And so every athlete,professional athlete in the
world, has had continuouspractice of self-evaluation and
self-adjustment in order to getto where, to where they are.
And so when we think aboutprofessional athletes, we see
(42:44):
them in the games and we see howamazing they are, but we don't
talk about every single day themgoing to practice, them doing
everything that they need to doto fix it and to correct their
nuances to get them to wherethey are.
And you know, the thing withprofessional athletes is they
(43:05):
practice specific behaviors overand over and over again so that
when they're in the moment,those practices are habitual.
And what we need leaders torecognize is they have to be
able to practice skills over andover and over again until they
become habitual.
Because, knowing that there isso much nuance to the contextual
(43:29):
dynamics and to the people thatthey're going to be interacting
with, they're going to have to,at a moment's notice, say
what's the context, what is theenvironmental factors, who are
the people that I'm dealing withand decide what is the best way
for me to approach thissituation and anyone who's been
in a basic leadership classknows that there are 50,000 ways
(43:50):
that you can approach a problemand so being an effective
leader in the future is going tobe who is going to be the
person that can habituallyrespond to the right context and
the right circumstances withthe right response.
Those are going to be theleaders who are going to be
leading us in the future.
(44:11):
Reflexivity, then we'reconsistently practicing all of
these behaviors and all of theseskills, and we're consistently
asking our brain to see what arethe contextual factors, what
are the environmental factors,what is the behaviors and the
actions that the person that I'msitting across from me is
giving me, and they'reconsistently forcing themselves
(44:33):
to go through these processesand thinking and like not just
the analytical but the actualphysical environmental things as
well.
And so developing a dailypractice of reflexivity, I think
, is the best thing that you cando, and that is exactly what
athletes do every single day.
They practice exactly what theyneed to practice so that, when
they're in the moment, they canhabitually respond, and so I
(44:55):
think, knowing and understandingyour weaknesses and bringing
intention to that is the mostbeneficial thing that you can do
.
Dr. Leah OH (45:04):
I love that, and you've talked about kind of
check-ins with those who areclosest to you.
What are some other things thatwe can do on our own, like,
what could I start doing todaythat would help me to be more
reflexive and then moreintentional going forward?
Aang Lakey (45:24):
Yeah, well, there are all kinds of practices that
I like to recommend to people.
I think you know it depends onwho you are and what resonates
with you, and so, like,mindfulness practices are a huge
component to be able to manageyour presence in the moment and
to be able to, like, navigatethe complexities in your brain
(45:47):
as everything is happening.
And so, when I think aboutmindfulness practices, there are
hundreds of differentmindfulness practices that
someone can do, and so that if Isay that one area, then I think
the next step for the leader isokay.
If I need to incorporatemindfulness practices in my life
, what are some ways that I cando that?
You know, do I want to journal?
(46:08):
Do I want to meditate?
If I want to meditate, whatkind of meditations do I want to
do?
Do I want to have silentmeditations?
Do I want to have guidedmeditation?
Do I want to have silentmeditations?
Do I want to have guidedmeditation?
Do I want to have contemplativemeditations?
And then the same is true for,like, if I don't like any of
those options, then maybe Irequire movement.
Is yoga the right practice forme?
Is running the right practicefor me?
Like, what is?
(46:29):
What is the area that I resonatewith the most in terms of
slowing down my brain andfocusing my attention, and so a
lot of mindfulness is justfocusing our attention, and so
I'll say mindfulness practice isa really, really big way of
recognizing that there's a broadrange of ways that that looks,
(46:50):
and then I would also say thatso mindfulness practice is to
build your presence and thenalso having probably some sort
of mindset practices.
And so how often are youthinking about the emotional
state that you're in?
How often are you thinkingabout the thoughts that come to
(47:14):
your brain immediately in themoment, and how often are you
questioning what does thisthought mean?
What does this feeling or thisemotion mean for me?
And recognizing I call themtriggers I think a lot of people
call them triggers butrecognizing the triggers that in
(47:35):
your mind and in your body,that impact who you're being in
the world, and so I would sayprobably mindfulness practices
and then mindset practices interms of thinking and reflecting
on what's happening in yourmind and what's happening in
your body.
Dr. Leah OH (47:51):
Yeah, thank you.
That's so helpful and it'sreally nice that it's really
expansive, so recognizing maybeif we're not at a place where we
can sit in a silent meditation,but running gets us to that
clear mind and that awarenessthat it's not necessarily we
have to do one or the other,figuring out what fits best.
Aang Lakey (48:15):
Yeah, yeah, and I think too often people don't
recognize the broadness of whatis a mindfulness practice.
And you know, I'll never forgetI can't remember who it was but
one mindfulness teacher talkedabout gardening and like how
important gardening is as amindfulness practice, because
(48:37):
all of your attention has to befocused on the plant and the
water and the soil, and likeyour attention is there and it's
captured for such a substantialamount of time and that's what
we need.
We need to have something inour lives that makes us let go
of everything else and focusesjust on what's in front of us,
because the more that we can dothat, the more our body
(48:59):
recognizes that.
That's needed sometimes so thatwhen we are sitting across from
someone, we can say this iswhat I'm doing right now, I'm
focusing on this person, what doI need to do to water this
person?
What do I need to do to nourishthis person and to water and
nourish our relationship.
Dr. Leah OH (49:16):
So yeah, really beautiful metaphor.
So I have two final questionsfor you, and this is the way we
end every episode of thecommunicative leader, and so
there are two questions that areconnected.
So it's thinking about what isthe pragmatic leadership or
communication tip, advice,challenge, first for our titled
(49:40):
leaders out there, those who arein formal leadership positions,
and then the second part foremployees across all ranks,
across all industries.
Aang Lakey (50:04):
I would say that the most important skill as a
leader that you can develop Ithink you called it titled
leader, so anyone who's in aleadership position the most
important skill that you candevelop for the future is, hands
down, the human intelligenceaspects.
Human intelligence aspects.
So body intelligence, emotionalintelligence, cultural
intelligence, socialintelligence, mastering those
(50:27):
elements, because we all knowright now that artificial
intelligence is taking over theworld and in 10 years time our
lives today are going to look sodifferent than what they're
going to look in 10 years time,and I believe that the single
defining thing that is going toseparate good companies and good
leaders are the ones who areable to master the human
intelligences.
(50:47):
And so there's so much aboutknowing what's happening in your
body and what's happening inyour mind and how it's
influencing the people aroundyou that artificial intelligence
hasn't mastered yet.
Maybe someday they might beable to, but I think you know
right now it doesn't seem thatthey're that artificial
(51:08):
intelligence is going to be ableto master some of these human
intelligences.
I will.
I will say that artificialintelligence can can be more
empathetic and more responsiveto individuals needs, uh, than
most human beings these days,and so knowing that artificial
intelligence can be moreempathetic in some circumstances
(51:29):
.
I think that is our call toaction right now that these are
the areas that we have todevelop as leaders.
You know, know, and so if Idon't know how to be empathetic
when I'm sitting with someonethat's going to impact my
dynamic, and if people areturning to artificial
intelligence for that empathy,then there's a problem.
Dr. Leah OH (51:46):
Yeah, yeah, and then what about our employees of
all ranks, all industries?
What do you want to leave themwith?
Aang Lakey (51:56):
I think the message that I always try to give when
I'm not talking to leaders isthe most important thing that
they can do is to recognize thatthey are leaders in one regard
or another, whether that is intheir personal lives, in their
communities, in their you know,I can't think of what I'm trying
(52:20):
to say right now, but like allof the communities that they
interact with, in some ways theyare the person that someone is
looking up to and saying I wantto be like that person, and so I
think, if we can recognize forourselves the impact that we
have on the world and let's justkeep it in a team and an
(52:43):
organizational context rightEven if I'm not in the
leadership position, I can stillinfluence the culture, I can
still influence the peoplearound me, and I can still
influence the people above meand the people below me, even if
I don't have an official title.
And so I think the mostimportant thing for employees is
to recognize that we are allleaders in some regard, and even
(53:05):
if not in the organization, wedon't have an official title, we
can still influence change, andI think that is yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (53:15):
Excellent.
Yes, I love it because I think,at its heart, leadership means
to influence, and we lean intothat in all different ways.
Aang Lakey (53:23):
Yeah, totally agree.
Dr. Leah OH (53:26):
Excellent Well, and thank you for sharing your time
and your expertise with ustoday.
I've had a lot of fun chattingwith you and learning more about
the work that you do, so thankyou again.
Aang Lakey (53:40):
Thank you so so much .
I really appreciate it again.
Dr. Leah OH (53:43):
So I thank you All right my friends, that wraps up
our conversation today.
Until next time, communicatewith intention and lead with
purpose.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith you again soon on the
Communicative Leader.
Welcome to another episode of the Communicative
Leader.
I'm your host, Dr Leah OH, andtoday we have a special guest
whose insights into consciousleadership and intentional
communication are helping totransform the way organizations
operate in today's fast-pacedlandscape.
To leaders in the US Army andfederal government, they are
(00:29):
renowned for their expertise inself-improvement through
conscious leadership.
In a world where a recentDeloitte survey revealed that a
staggering 94% of executivesbelieve strong leadership is
critical to business success,Aang's work is more relevant
than ever.
They emphasize the power ofintentional communication and
how it can help to reshapeorganizational culture,
(00:51):
fostering environments whereleaders and teams are set up to
thrive.
Today, we're going to exploreAang's journey into leadership
advisory, uncover the essence ofconscious leadership and delve
into practical strategies forenhancing communication in your
teams.
Let's have some fun.
(01:11):
Hello and welcome to theCommunicative Leader hosted by
me, Dr Leah Omilion- Hodges.
My friends call me Dr O.
I'm a professor ofcommunication, and a leadership
communication expert.
On the Communicative Leader,we're working to make your work
life what you want it to be.
Aang, thank you so much forjoining us today on the
(01:33):
Communicative Leader.
I'm really excited for ourconversation.
Before we dive into that, I washoping you could give some
insight into your background andyour journey that led you to
advise leaders in the US Army,the federal government, among
many others.
Aang Lakey (01:49):
Yeah, of course no.
Thank you so much, Leah, forhaving me.
I'm super excited to be hereand I love talking about this
work and the work that I do, andI just am so passionate about
it and so I love having theopportunity.
So thank you so much for havingme on the show.
A little bit about mybackground.
I sort of I grew up in povertyand I ended up joining the army
(02:13):
as sort of my way out of thatenvironment, and so I never
really anticipated that I wouldbe where I am today in terms of,
you know, advising leadershipteams, and even the work that I
am doing in the way that I'mdoing it in the world has only
come to life for me recently,after you know the life
(02:34):
experience that I've had, thedifferent roles that I've held
in the different organizations,all of which that kind of led me
into this field, and so, youknow, I did join the Army.
I ended up commissioning in theArmy, becoming an Army officer,
and you know my leadershipjourney in that regard was very
much focused in on anauthoritative style, which is
(02:59):
not congruent at all with youknow who I wanted to be, and
also you know my graduate workwas in social work and then
human relations and organizationdevelopment.
So, learning all of thedifferent leadership styles and
really trying to figure out howdo I align myself with these,
and you know the work that I'vedone in terms of starting in
(03:23):
crisis, crisis response,transitioning into violence
prevention, helping leadersunderstand how to prevent
violence in their organizations,and how that kind of shifted
for me over the years into doingequal opportunity work and
diversity inclusion work andultimately to where I am now,
which is advising leaders on,you know, basic leadership
(03:46):
skills that are related topreventing violence across the
spectrum, and so you know, asfar as my story or my background
, it's really been a culminationof everything that has happened
for me in my life and, yeah, Ithink integrating consciousness
(04:07):
into leadership, which is thearea that I'm focusing in on now
, has been a turning point forme in really helping me to feel
more authentic and genuine inwho I am and how I lead, and
also how I work with leadershipteams to develop how they want
to lead.
And so, yeah, I'll pause thereand say, hopefully that's enough
(04:31):
.
Yeah, sure We'll get into it.
Dr. Leah OH (04:34):
Exactly Well.
Thank you, and I was justsaying I really you know it's an
intro question, but it oftenends up being one of my favorite
because your backgroundincluded.
You see it really as a journeyand you recognize this isn't
something you go to bed onenight, make a wish and wake up
the next day fully actualizedinto that place where you really
(04:56):
want to be.
You recognize it's theculmination of all those steps
and all of that work that's gonein to date.
Aang Lakey (05:05):
Yeah, I was just chatting this morning with a
friend of mine and we weretalking about, you know, the
seemingly unimportant thingsthat happen to you in your life
which lead you in one direction,and how you don't really think
about it until you're forced toconfront all like why did you
(05:25):
choose this path and why are youdoing this work?
And you know, I only juststarted getting into podcasts
and forcing myself to think inthis mindset and you know it's
been such an awareness journeyfor me to reflect on my own
reverse gap and how I got towhere I am and to articulate
(05:46):
that in a way that's meaningfulto people, and I think it's.
There's just something sospecial about taking the time to
force yourself to look at thatjourney and how you, how you
ended up where you are.
Dr. Leah OH (06:00):
I never, I never, thought I would be anywhere near
where I am doing anything likewhat I'm doing, but somehow my
journey has led me here, that isincredible, and so I know a big
part of that journey, of whereyou are now, is about conscious
leadership, and I was hoping youcould kind of define that for
(06:22):
us in the way that you thinkabout it and then help us to
understand what it looks likeand I'm thinking look like if
I'm in an organization, how do Iknow if I'm embodying this or
my leader is.
What are kind of thosehallmarks?
Aang Lakey (06:36):
Yeah, well, I definitely tend to think about
it in terms or I prefer to thinkabout it in terms of
integrating consciousness intoour leadership.
And so there are so manydifferent leadership styles, and
regardless of what style youchoose, I think there's an
aspect of still needing tointegrate consciousness into
(06:58):
that.
And so when I think about thework that I do, I like to think
about it in terms of integratingconsciousness into that.
And we all know that the bestleaders have an adaptable style
that they're able to adjust andto be flexible in terms of the
teams that they're with, becauseevery environment and every
context is different.
(07:20):
And so when I think aboutintegrating consciousness, I
think about consciousness interms of just a general
awareness of who are we, who arethe people who are around us,
and how do we interact with them.
And then, how are we allinterconnected across the globe
in terms of as human beings, assentient beings and those kinds
(07:41):
of things, and how does theinteraction of all of three of
those layers kind of impact thelarger system and so the world,
the universe in general?
And so when I think aboutintegrating consciousness from
that aspect into leadership, Ithink about it in a very clear,
(08:02):
like systemic approach, in termsof every action that I take as
a leader is going to impactmyself, it's going to impact my
(08:28):
team.
How can I make the best impactthat I can make?
And I think, when I think aboutconscious leadership, I think
about it in that regard,consciously or intentionally,
thinking about the actions thatyou take, the decisions that you
make and how that is going toinfluence all three of those
levels, so the personal level,the social level and the
(08:49):
societal level.
Dr. Leah OH (08:50):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I really appreciate thesimplicity in that, because it's
such a profound and expansiveway of understanding and
interacting and you really helpdistill that in a way that feels
a lot more tangible.
Aang Lakey (09:09):
Yeah, and I think I never, I never intended to do,
to do things the way that I doit.
But I'll never forget anexperience I had with my advisor
, my academic advisor, my firstgraduate program, and I just
constantly was feeling like Icouldn't keep up.
I didn't understand because Ireally I didn't like the
(09:32):
theoretical perspectives.
I wanted to know, like, how isthis information going to help
me and how do I implement thisin my life?
And I'll never forget that.
You know she shared with methat it's such a unique way of
looking at the world.
Many people like know andunderstand the theory and they,
they know that it's important,but they don't know how to
(09:52):
actually implement it inpractice.
And she, she shared with methat one of my gifts was, you
know, the ability to take thatand to to make it tangible and
to make it fit into the, intothe world.
And you know that was 20 yearsago and now and I only just came
to my own realization of partof what I do as a coach and as a
(10:14):
consultant is helpingindividuals take these massive
concepts and kind of define themand refine them for for them to
know how do you actually usethis in practice, because you
know, I say this all the time,but I think it's the most
important thing, like knowledgeis useful or, excuse me, useless
to us unless we know how toactually implement it.
(10:35):
And so, like, how do we developour competence in that?
And we can't have competenceunless we understand the most
basic level of it, and so Iappreciate you saying that,
thank you.
Dr. Leah OH (10:47):
Yeah, so when you're thinking, when you're
walking us through kind ofconscious leadership.
You brought up the wordintentional and I know that this
is another major focus in yourwork, this intentional
communication.
So can you share sometechniques that you kind of
coach others or you've hadsuccess with in enhancing their
(11:09):
communication skills, butparticularly in regard to being
very intentional?
Aang Lakey (11:14):
Yeah, I will say that this is one of my favorite
areas to talk about, becauseit's such a foundational aspect
of the work, and you know, I'lltalk a lot about reflexivity,
probably in a moment.
But since you asked mespecifically about
intentionality, intention islike the baseline of everything
(11:37):
that we do, and when we thinkabout intention in terms of
communication, it's listening tounderstand instead of listening
to respond.
And I think when we think aboutbringing intention into our
communication, it's aboutrecognizing what are the
behaviors, what are the actionsthat I'm taking.
(12:00):
That is, actually showingsomeone that I care about what
they're saying and I am tryingto understand what they're
saying.
And because I think so oftenmiscommunications happen in any
environment, but especially inthe workplace, when people are
not listening to understand, andso you know you asked me for
some examples, and so one of themost critical things that I
(12:24):
learned early on doing crisiswork was you know, so often I
would have people who would comeinto my office and want to sit
and talk with me, and you knowpeople who've experienced
terrible traumas that theyshould never have experienced,
but then you know to have totalk to someone about that in a
space that maybe doesn't feelsafe.
And so you know, I was in thearmy at the time and so I had
(12:48):
this massive U-shaped desk and Ihad multiple computer screens
and a phone and, like my cellphones and everything, and it
was just, it was the biggestdistraction because, you know,
when someone is sharinginformation, hard, traumatic
information, you know one of thebest things that you can do is
to actually get yourself out ofthat situation.
(13:10):
And so you know, it took me along time to learn, as someone
who wants to have a safe andopen space, that I actually had
to get up and get away from mydesk.
I had to get away from mycomputers, I had to get away
from the phones, I had to, like,sit with the person.
And so I ended up having toadjust my physical environment,
my physical space, to reflectlike what, where can we sit when
(13:33):
people come into my office?
That shows them that I'm, I'mlistening to them and I want to
be there with them and I want tobe away from the distractions.
And so I think, when we talkabout intention, it's about are
you being intentional about thephysical space and are you being
intentional about your actionsand your behaviors and so
removing barriers, whetherthey're physical barriers,
(13:53):
whether they're perceptions likeyour computer and your phone,
like, am I constantly glaring atmy computer?
Am I constantly looking at myphone?
Like the really basic thingsthat, especially in an office
environment, you, you forgetsometimes and so bring by
bringing intention.
It's about reminding yourselfokay, I need to get up and I
(14:14):
need to go, I need to go awayfrom this, this situation, Right
.
And so I think I think about thephysical space, I think about
my behaviors and actions, andthen I also think about things
like, you know, did I ask thisperson where they're most
comfortable connecting?
Maybe they don't want to sit inmy office, but the only way
(14:36):
they knew to get in contact withme in private was to come to my
office.
And so, asking myself, did Iask them, you know, is this an
okay space for you?
Would you rather go somewhereelse?
And you know, being intentionalabout how do I make them feel
safe, how do I make them feellike I'm here to be available to
them and also justdemonstrating.
(14:57):
It's talked about our actionsand behaviors, but am I
demonstrating to the individualthat I'm sitting with, that I
care about what they're saying?
You know, am I?
Am I using my body language toshow them that I'm interested?
Am I looking at them?
Am I kind of responding backand asking for clarification,
asking that I understand whatthey're saying?
(15:19):
You know just really basicthings that were caught up in
the day to day of you know, I'vegot 100 emails to get through
and then I've got a meeting in10 minutes.
Like forcing yourself to saythe meeting will wait, the
emails will wait, I want to behere and I want to be with you,
and the impact of of this I havefound to be transformational,
(15:41):
I'll say in the work, and youknow I definitely, when I find
myself not aligning with mydesires in this regard, I can
see and I can feel the otherperson's discomfort in that.
Dr. Leah OH (16:01):
Yeah Well, thank you, that's a really thoughtful
answer, and I really appreciateyou bringing in the physical
space as well, because I thinkthat's one that's so often
overlooked.
We're spending a lot of timethinking about word choice.
We're thinking about, like yousaid, the act of listening.
We're not thinking like am Ihaving to peek around a screen
(16:23):
or does that?
Aang Lakey (16:30):
Yeah, and it's especially hard and I don't know
that I would have thought aboutit too too much, but I have a.
I have a traumatic brain injuryand so I get distracted very
easily and I had to have otherpeople tell me like I need you
to focus on me right now and Ineed you to listen to what I'm
(16:50):
saying, because it doesn't seemlike you're listening to what
I'm saying, you know.
So like having to force myselfinto that mindset.
And for me, you know, anotherexample of kind of what I do is
I have a checklist.
When someone walks into myoffice, I go through this
checklist in my head in terms ofget up, get away from your
computer, sit in the chairs.
I go through this checklistwith myself.
(17:11):
And when I talk about bringingintention, I think that that's
what it is.
How, how are you going tointentionally show whether it's
a teammate or someone who needsto connect with you for whatever
reason?
Like, how are you going to showthe people in your life that
you actually want to communicatewith them and, especially when
we get into really hard topics,uh, showing them that you're
(17:35):
committed to that conversation,regardless of how it's going?
Dr. Leah OH (17:38):
So, yeah, yeah, so you've also brought up this idea
of transformation and I'm goingto look at that in terms of
cultures, especially inorganizations and as an OrgCom
scholar.
We are so nerdy but we kind ofjoke.
If you want to change acompany's culture, fine, it's
(17:58):
easy.
Just fire everyone and startover.
So you know it's reallychallenging.
But I know a lot of your workis focused on helping to
transform cultures throughconscious leadership, so I'm
wondering if you can walk usthrough some practical steps
that leaders can take so they'restarting to model this culture
(18:22):
of openness and awareness withintheir teams.
Aang Lakey (18:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
This is one of my favoritethings to talk about because
it's so basic and it's so easy,but it's so hard to do in
practice and especially withleaders.
And so obviously there areusually layers of leaders in the
(18:47):
organization and the higher yougo in that layered path, the
less time that you have to thinkand to do.
And so I think the higher youare in that organizational
structure, the more important itis to dedicate time to think
and to do.
(19:08):
And I'm going to say this and Ithink terms that are very
simplistic but they're socritical to actually changing
the culture.
And so I would say, probablythe first thing is what is the
culture that you want?
And say it out loud and say itregularly.
And so if you want to have aculture that values openness and
(19:31):
values communication and valuesyou know a growth mindset or a
learning organization, then youneed to constantly say that you
know our culture is built onhaving a growth mindset, having
a learning organization, havingopen conversations and
communicating with clarity andwith ease.
So you need to say it out loud,regularly, regularly.
(19:54):
And I think the second part tothat, so two parts to this first
part, one of saying it out loud.
And the second part is actuallydemonstrating it in every
interaction that you have.
And so, especially if you aresaying it out loud, you have to
follow through with thedemonstration, because if you
don't follow through with thedemonstration, then you're
lacking in your own congruence,which is hurting the culture and
(20:17):
hurting the environment thatyou're trying to build.
And so say it out loud and thendemonstrating it in all of your
actions, and I love, I thinkit's.
Harvard Business Review says itin a way that I just love, in a
(20:38):
way that I just love, and it's avisible commitment, and so do
your teams see you doing.
The things that you're sayingare important, and so I read
that in one of their articlesand it has just stuck with me
for forever.
But visible commitment is so,so important, so important.
(21:17):
And then I also think there'san aspect of recognizing and,
even if it doesn't go the waythat it's supposed to go, you
know being able to say you know,this is something that we value
.
We want to be a learningorganization, we want to learn
and grow, and you took this step.
Even though it didn't go theway that we wanted to like, we
still learned this from thiscircumstance, and so constantly
(21:40):
reiterating, like here's what wesaid we wanted.
Someone actually did it andeven though we didn't get the
results that we want, we'restill creating and building this
culture and we still learnedfrom that instance.
And so saying it, demonstrating, demonstrating it and then
recognizing and celebrating whenpeople are doing it yeah, and I
love that bringing in.
(22:00):
Sorry, I forget this part somuch, but it's also really,
really important, and that is um, holding people appropriately
accountable to, to and so like,especially if you you're trying
to change the and so like,especially if you you're trying
to change the culture, and soyou have a culture that's
negative and you want to adjustthat culture, it's not going to
(22:22):
change unless we areconsistently calling out and
holding people accountable towhatever those those changes are
.
And you know, sometimes in myown brain I try to keep it as
simple as possible, but I thinkis also one of those very simple
things that is consistentlyoverlooked, and so I'm so sorry,
I just I wanted to say that,yeah, no, I think that's great
(22:42):
and it's kind of what I wasthinking.
Dr. Leah OH (22:45):
So I love the the focus on the celebration part.
So I think a lot of timesorganizations, especially
leaders, who mean well butaren't necessarily being
intentional.
They get stuck on people'sshortcomings or the flaws and
certainly if that's underminingthe efforts, then that needs to
be addressed appropriately.
(23:06):
But we don't spend very muchtime celebrating when people are
actually doing it and thenyou're trying.
You know maybe you're beingvulnerable or just trying
something new and if no onegives you any feedback, we don't
know if it's working.
Like, am I doing this, am I not?
So I love that you integratethat as part of that.
Aang Lakey (23:28):
Yeah, it's definitely an area I'm not
really sure when it came into mylike consciousness, uh, in
terms of helping leaders to tounderstand the importance of
this, but in so manyorganizations, recognition has
been such a huge component inthe, the feedback that that the
(23:49):
leadership teams have gotten,and especially when you think
about it in terms of of culturechange like recognizing people
for their accomplishments is isone thing, but taking it to that
next level of recognizingpeople when they're actually
doing the behaviors that youwant them to do is so important,
and I'm a social worker too, soI believe very strongly in a
strengths based approach and youknow, so often I feel like
(24:13):
people do go to that negativelike you're wrong, we need to
fix it, kind of a thing, andinstead of this is what right
looks like to help people know.
You know, this is what we wantyou to do.
Dr. Leah OH (24:24):
And I think it's simple.
Yeah, I love that.
And then I think part of thisconversation, too, is becoming
you talked about beingreflective, and I think this is
part of it is being aware ofyour unconscious biases, and we
know that so often, without evenmeaning to.
A lot of times, these biases wemight not even be aware of.
(24:47):
They start to undermine ourability to communicate and to
connect.
So, with the work that you dowith training you know, what
strategies do you recommend forhelping people to recognize,
address them, especially ifwe're in a title leadership
position and we'reunintentionally modeling
behavior that we don't evendesire, that we would not
(25:10):
encourage or want others to do?
Aang Lakey (25:14):
Yeah, such a great question and there are so many
ways to answer the question.
I think what I'm going to do isI'm going to give a broad
answer of developing a cycle ofreflexivity and I'll share just
(25:34):
a little bit about what I seethat as and how to incorporate
that.
But I think there's a couple ofother components that are also
really important, and that ismindset.
And so if you do not alreadyknow and understand the impact
that society has on us in termsof the norms and the culture
(25:55):
that we kind of grow up in andhow that impacts us, I would say
it definitely starts with amindset of recognition that
every single person has beensocialized in different parts of
the world with different waysof thinking and different ways
of being.
And when we can recognize thatfor the globe, then it's much
(26:22):
easier for us to say what arethe ways that I was socialized
that don't match with either whoI want to be or who I need to
be as a leader, and so I thinkthere's a mindset component of
it.
And then, once you have anunderstanding of that, then it's
(26:44):
about having a reflexivitypractice where you can
constantly evaluate yourself andmake adjustments based on that
process, and so when I talkabout reflexivity with leaders,
I talk about it in a cycle ofself-awareness, self-evaluation
and self-adjustment.
So there's kind of three partsto this, and almost all
(27:07):
leadership curriculum includes aself-awareness aspect, but
rarely do those leadershipcurriculums go into the
self-adjustment aspect, and soif they, if they talk about
self-awareness, they likely aretalking about self-evaluations
and they may talk about it fromthe standpoint of you know,
(27:28):
here's some evaluations that youcan do to like self-define
where you're at.
But when I talk aboutevaluation, it's not just about
the criteria or the assessmentsthat you take, but it's also
about engaging with other people, like, who are the people in
your life that you're engagingwith?
How are you engaging with them,and are you actually asking
(27:50):
them if you're meeting theirneeds, whether it's your partner
, whether it is your familymembers, whether it's your team,
if you're meeting their needs,whether it's your partner,
whether it is your familymembers, whether it's your team,
if you're leading a team and ifyou're leading an organization,
the employees at large.
But so often I think, when wethink about self-evaluation, we
don't think about it in thecontext of the people that we
interact with every day, who whohave a much better and clearer
(28:14):
picture of who we are and howwe're being.
And I say this you know,sometimes I tell a story.
I have a, I have a head injuryand, um, you know, one of my
partners had to to tell me, likesome, something ain't right
with you, like you're gettingirritable, you're forgetting,
forgetting key details, like Inever would have seen that, and
(28:35):
if I didn't have someone wholoved me and cared about me
enough to say, like you're notliving in alignment with your
values right now, you need tomake some decisions, then I
wouldn't have been able to learnand grow.
Is the moment of I took myassessment.
I um reflected on my values, Ireflected on my beliefs, but at
(28:57):
the same time, it's also who arethe people in my lives that can
see me for who I am and me forwho I'm being, and and who are
also the people who know who Iwant to be in the world and who
can give me an assessment ofwhether or not I am living in
that person's can't think of theword.
(29:21):
Am I living in accordance withthat person's values?
And so self-evaluation isreally important, expanding our
view on what self-evaluation isfor, but the most important
thing is making adjustmentsbased on that insight.
And so, example, going back tothe example with my partner,
like it's one thing to know thatI get irritable and that I
(29:43):
sometimes forget the key details, and it's another thing to just
accept that for what it is andsay I have a head injury, got
something I got to live with,right.
And it's another thing to say Idon't have to live like this if
I know that I have this, thisproblem.
And for me, kindness has alwaysbeen one of my core values.
(30:04):
And so, you know, my partnerwas like you know that your
value is kindness, and when youget irritable you are not a kind
person, you know.
And me having to say you knowthat I do not want to be the
person who is irritable andmakes people upset, like that is
not in alignment with who I am.
So then how do I change mybehaviors to not be that person
(30:27):
so that I can live in alignmentwith my values?
So that self adjustmentcomponent is I see, I understand
that I'm not living inalignment with that values.
And now what do I actually haveto do?
And so for me it was acontinuous cycle of I'm getting
irritable.
I can see it in the moment.
Now I'm like practicing my deepbreathing.
(30:49):
I am doing all of the thingsI'm supposed to be doing, but
I'm still really irritable.
I am doing all of the thingsI'm supposed to be doing, but
I'm still really irritable, andso like constantly going back to
okay, I tried this, it didn'twork, I tried this, it didn't
work.
And so what is the thing that'sgoing to, that's going to help
me when I'm in that moment?
And it's such a it's an ongoingpractice, you know it's not
(31:10):
like I did it and it didn't workfor me.
Therefore, I go back to who I am.
It didn't work.
So what's next?
How do I?
How do I get to that?
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Dr. Leah OH (31:23):
Yeah, so I think you're right.
It's it's so hard.
It's an ongoing commitment,it's a promise to yourself and
to those around you, but it isnot easy.
Aang Lakey (31:34):
Yeah, yeah, Um yeah, I think I think I'll probably
in there, but did I answer thequestion fully in terms of?
Dr. Leah OH (31:44):
Yeah, yeah, I think , yeah, yeah, really really
thoughtful insights there.
So we're still I still want totalk a little bit more about
self-improvement, and I knowthat's a space that you like to
do a lot of work in, and youmentioned a Deloitte survey.
It says that 94% of executivesbelieve strong leadership is
(32:06):
critical to business success.
Press to find people who don'tagree with that, and I'm
wondering, too, if you couldintegrate the self-improvement
thread and kind of tell us, fromyour perspective, what role
self-improvement plays indeveloping strong leaders.
Aang Lakey (32:23):
Yeah.
So I think for me, you cannotbe a leader and not have some
sort of self-improvement routineor process in your life.
I think it is the mostimportant aspect of being a
leader, and so, regardless ofwhat level you're at in the
organization, your role as aleader is constantly changing
(32:47):
and adapting, and you have to beable to see the context and see
the people in the environmentthat we're constantly reflecting
on and we're constantly askingourselves what are the things
(33:17):
that I need to know, how do Ineed to know them, what
circumstances does each one ofthese areas come into my style,
and those kinds of things thenwe're never going to be able to
meet the needs of theorganization.
We're not going to be able tomeet the needs of ourselves in
terms of, you know, leading andmanaging a team to make sure
(33:38):
that they're operatingefficiently, in those kinds of
things.
And so I think if we don't haveself-improvement routines in
our lives for me I would saythat the most important one is
the cycle of reflexivity, and soif we don't have something like
that in our lives, then we'regoing to miss out on knowing and
(34:00):
understanding not only thecontext and the circumstances,
but how our leadership playsinto that and how we need to
adjust to be the best in eachone of those circumstances.
And so so much of leadership, Ithink, is adaptability.
You know, if we don't have aself-improvement mindset and
(34:24):
routine, then I think we'remissing out.
And of course, you can look atself-awareness in all different
kinds of aspects, but for me, Ithink, the core ones that I
ended up talking about are interms of, like, building better
relationships and building ourown resilience and understanding
.
And so there's so much in theworld that we don't know and
(34:46):
that we don't understand, andthe more that we know, the more
that we realize we don't know.
And so it's so important for usto continuously learn and get
information and to grow and todevelop.
And, like I said before, likemy entire journey, I had no idea
that I would be here where I amtoday, and that happened
(35:09):
because I was continuouslylearning and growing in
different ways and in ways thatI never even thought that I
could.
And I think you know, if you'renot doing that, you're not
serving yourself and you're notserving anyone else.
(35:41):
If the expectations are foremployees to adapt and teams and
the organizations to adapt.
It makes sense that you needleaders that are modeling that
and embracing that.
Yeah, yeah, and I think it's sohard for leaders in general to
want to be vulnerable and tostep into that moment especially
.
You know, a lot of my work isin the military and it's in the
government where people areexpected to like, know and
understand and be quote superior.
I hate using that word but,like you know, there's so many
(36:04):
expectations placed on leadersbut the reality is like if the
leader knew everything, theywouldn't need to have a team of
advisors advising them.
Dr. Leah OH (36:13):
Exactly Yep, and so this next question is what I'm
really?
I've just really personallyinterested in common challenges.
So with these leaders thatyou've worked with that can be,
you know, current past, Iimagine there are a number of
very similar challenges that youcontinue to see or hear.
(36:34):
So, one, what are some of thesecommon challenges that leaders
face when they're trying toimplement these self-improvement
practices?
And then, two, what are some ofthe ways that they can kind of
overcome these hurdles?
Aang Lakey (36:47):
Yeah Well, I think the common challenges are
definitely different dependingon the types of organizations
and the teams that you'reworking with.
Mine have, again, historicallybeen government employees,
military services and especiallyin those environments.
Uh, probably two, two keythings.
(37:08):
First, I would say, is anunderstanding of the quote
softer skills, and so theperception that leaders look at
in this environment.
Look at that.
So soft skills are notnecessarily as important as
managing the budget and makingsure their performance
(37:29):
appraisals are completedadministratively correctly and
like some of the other thingsthat other people think are more
important.
So looking at it as a softskill and a kind of a negative
perception.
And then the other thing I wouldsay is also time.
You know, I worked with themost senior levels in all of the
organizations that I've workedin and they are consistently
(37:51):
consistent managing numerousportfolios and they have to,
they have to know when they haveto understand all of the key
areas of that and in doing thatit requires so much time and
energy from them.
And so you know, lack of timeand then also not seeing it as
as important of a skill.
(38:11):
And so I think, for for me,when I talk about what leaders
need to do, and it's bringingintention to the skills and then
also bringing intention intocreating the time to do these
kinds of things.
And when leaders do find goodways, meaningful ways for them
(38:36):
to incorporate it in theirschedule, they almost always say
that it was the best thing thatthey could have done.
And so, in terms of likemeditation, everyone's like I
don't have time to meditate.
But then, if they don't,meditate.
They're like I can't do anythingbecause I didn't meditate,
(38:58):
helping them to understand theimportance of the skills and
bringing intention to that.
Uh yeah, and you know I share alittle bit about vulnerability
too it's probably really uhmatches well here in terms of a
lot of times they don't want to.
Leaders don't want to be seenas vulnerable.
They want to to, to be seen asa strong leader, a resilient
(39:19):
leader and someone who knowswhat they're doing and anytime
there's an incongruence withthem, their competence in a
specific area, it makes themfeel really hesitant and it
makes them want to step back.
And I think the most importantthing that they can do in those
moments is to step into that andto recognize you know, I don't
(39:42):
know everything and, like I havea team of people here to help
me, because you know I valueyour input and you're the
subject matter expert Like I'vegot, you know, 50 other things
on my to-do list today and and Ican't dedicate the mental space
to this that you can dedicateto this and so, um, being able
(40:02):
to, to recognize that inpositive and meaningful ways, I
think is um a part of a part ofthat process, and you can't do
that without having, uh well,accepting the vulnerability of
saying I, I don't know this, andwithout the mindset of
recognizing that I'm notactually expected to know
(40:25):
everything and that I have ateam for a reason and some of
those things.
So, I think, developing yourmindset around that and then
also recognizing the importanceof vulnerability, and I won't go
too much into that.
But there are many, manypositive benefits of
acknowledging vulnerability.
But since you asked it in thecontext of the challenges, I'll
just leave it there.
Dr. Leah OH (40:45):
Yeah, well, that's really helpful and that is it's
something I'm happy.
As a scholar in this area, I'vebeen seeing even more academic
research and having moreconversations about it, and I
don't know that we've hit ourtipping point yet, but we're
heading in the right direction,which gives me a lot of hope for
(41:05):
the way people are going toexperience organizations in the
future.
Aang Lakey (41:10):
Yeah, yeah, I definitely think that we're at a
place where the bestorganizations are recognizing
that the skills that theyoverlooked in the past are the
skills that are going to getthem to the next level.
Dr. Leah OH (41:26):
Yes, yes, I agree.
So your last question, I think,will be able to bring in that
vulnerability and certainlyself-reflection and thinking
about if someone is listening tothis or they've done some
reading or they've been hearingabout conscious leadership and
they want to try and lean moreinto it.
(41:48):
What are some of thesefoundational principles that
they should begin or startmaking a plan for in order to
improve and start embodyingconscious leadership?
Aang Lakey (42:01):
Okay, Um, I think I'll probably stick to what I've
shared a little bit aboutalready, which is the the cycle
of reflexivity and incorporatingthat into your daily practices.
And so let me share in terms ofan example.
(42:22):
And so every athlete,professional athlete in the
world, has had continuouspractice of self-evaluation and
self-adjustment in order to getto where, to where they are.
And so when we think aboutprofessional athletes, we see
(42:44):
them in the games and we see howamazing they are, but we don't
talk about every single day themgoing to practice, them doing
everything that they need to doto fix it and to correct their
nuances to get them to wherethey are.
And you know, the thing withprofessional athletes is they
(43:05):
practice specific behaviors overand over and over again so that
when they're in the moment,those practices are habitual.
And what we need leaders torecognize is they have to be
able to practice skills over andover and over again until they
become habitual.
Because, knowing that there isso much nuance to the contextual
(43:29):
dynamics and to the people thatthey're going to be interacting
with, they're going to have to,at a moment's notice, say
what's the context, what is theenvironmental factors, who are
the people that I'm dealing withand decide what is the best way
for me to approach thissituation and anyone who's been
in a basic leadership classknows that there are 50,000 ways
(43:50):
that you can approach a problemand so being an effective
leader in the future is going tobe who is going to be the
person that can habituallyrespond to the right context and
the right circumstances withthe right response.
Those are going to be theleaders who are going to be
leading us in the future.
(44:11):
Reflexivity, then we'reconsistently practicing all of
these behaviors and all of theseskills, and we're consistently
asking our brain to see what arethe contextual factors, what
are the environmental factors,what is the behaviors and the
actions that the person that I'msitting across from me is
giving me, and they'reconsistently forcing themselves
(44:33):
to go through these processesand thinking and like not just
the analytical but the actualphysical environmental things as
well.
And so developing a dailypractice of reflexivity, I think
, is the best thing that you cando, and that is exactly what
athletes do every single day.
They practice exactly what theyneed to practice so that, when
they're in the moment, they canhabitually respond, and so I
(44:55):
think, knowing and understandingyour weaknesses and bringing
intention to that is the mostbeneficial thing that you can do
.
Dr. Leah OH (45:04):
I love that, and you've talked about kind of
check-ins with those who areclosest to you.
What are some other things thatwe can do on our own, like,
what could I start doing todaythat would help me to be more
reflexive and then moreintentional going forward?
Aang Lakey (45:24):
Yeah, well, there are all kinds of practices that
I like to recommend to people.
I think you know it depends onwho you are and what resonates
with you, and so, like,mindfulness practices are a huge
component to be able to manageyour presence in the moment and
to be able to, like, navigatethe complexities in your brain
(45:47):
as everything is happening.
And so, when I think aboutmindfulness practices, there are
hundreds of differentmindfulness practices that
someone can do, and so that if Isay that one area, then I think
the next step for the leader isokay.
If I need to incorporatemindfulness practices in my life
, what are some ways that I cando that?
You know, do I want to journal?
(46:08):
Do I want to meditate?
If I want to meditate, whatkind of meditations do I want to
do?
Do I want to have silentmeditations?
Do I want to have guidedmeditation?
Do I want to have silentmeditations?
Do I want to have guidedmeditation?
Do I want to have contemplativemeditations?
And then the same is true for,like, if I don't like any of
those options, then maybe Irequire movement.
Is yoga the right practice forme?
Is running the right practicefor me?
Like, what is?
(46:29):
What is the area that I resonatewith the most in terms of
slowing down my brain andfocusing my attention, and so a
lot of mindfulness is justfocusing our attention, and so
I'll say mindfulness practice isa really, really big way of
recognizing that there's a broadrange of ways that that looks,
(46:50):
and then I would also say thatso mindfulness practice is to
build your presence and thenalso having probably some sort
of mindset practices.
And so how often are youthinking about the emotional
state that you're in?
How often are you thinkingabout the thoughts that come to
(47:14):
your brain immediately in themoment, and how often are you
questioning what does thisthought mean?
What does this feeling or thisemotion mean for me?
And recognizing I call themtriggers I think a lot of people
call them triggers butrecognizing the triggers that in
(47:35):
your mind and in your body,that impact who you're being in
the world, and so I would sayprobably mindfulness practices
and then mindset practices interms of thinking and reflecting
on what's happening in yourmind and what's happening in
your body.
Dr. Leah OH (47:51):
Yeah, thank you.
That's so helpful and it'sreally nice that it's really
expansive, so recognizing maybeif we're not at a place where we
can sit in a silent meditation,but running gets us to that
clear mind and that awarenessthat it's not necessarily we
have to do one or the other,figuring out what fits best.
Aang Lakey (48:15):
Yeah, yeah, and I think too often people don't
recognize the broadness of whatis a mindfulness practice.
And you know, I'll never forgetI can't remember who it was but
one mindfulness teacher talkedabout gardening and like how
important gardening is as amindfulness practice, because
(48:37):
all of your attention has to befocused on the plant and the
water and the soil, and likeyour attention is there and it's
captured for such a substantialamount of time and that's what
we need.
We need to have something inour lives that makes us let go
of everything else and focusesjust on what's in front of us,
because the more that we can dothat, the more our body
(48:59):
recognizes that.
That's needed sometimes so thatwhen we are sitting across from
someone, we can say this iswhat I'm doing right now, I'm
focusing on this person, what doI need to do to water this
person?
What do I need to do to nourishthis person and to water and
nourish our relationship.
Dr. Leah OH (49:16):
So yeah, really beautiful metaphor.
So I have two final questionsfor you, and this is the way we
end every episode of thecommunicative leader, and so
there are two questions that areconnected.
So it's thinking about what isthe pragmatic leadership or
communication tip, advice,challenge, first for our titled
(49:40):
leaders out there, those who arein formal leadership positions,
and then the second part foremployees across all ranks,
across all industries.
Aang Lakey (50:04):
I would say that the most important skill as a
leader that you can develop Ithink you called it titled
leader, so anyone who's in aleadership position the most
important skill that you candevelop for the future is, hands
down, the human intelligenceaspects.
Human intelligence aspects.
So body intelligence, emotionalintelligence, cultural
intelligence, socialintelligence, mastering those
(50:27):
elements, because we all knowright now that artificial
intelligence is taking over theworld and in 10 years time our
lives today are going to look sodifferent than what they're
going to look in 10 years time,and I believe that the single
defining thing that is going toseparate good companies and good
leaders are the ones who areable to master the human
intelligences.
(50:47):
And so there's so much aboutknowing what's happening in your
body and what's happening inyour mind and how it's
influencing the people aroundyou that artificial intelligence
hasn't mastered yet.
Maybe someday they might beable to, but I think you know
right now it doesn't seem thatthey're that artificial
(51:08):
intelligence is going to be ableto master some of these human
intelligences.
I will.
I will say that artificialintelligence can can be more
empathetic and more responsiveto individuals needs, uh, than
most human beings these days,and so knowing that artificial
intelligence can be moreempathetic in some circumstances
(51:29):
.
I think that is our call toaction right now that these are
the areas that we have todevelop as leaders.
You know, know, and so if Idon't know how to be empathetic
when I'm sitting with someonethat's going to impact my
dynamic, and if people areturning to artificial
intelligence for that empathy,then there's a problem.
Dr. Leah OH (51:46):
Yeah, yeah, and then what about our employees of
all ranks, all industries?
What do you want to leave themwith?
Aang Lakey (51:56):
I think the message that I always try to give when
I'm not talking to leaders isthe most important thing that
they can do is to recognize thatthey are leaders in one regard
or another, whether that is intheir personal lives, in their
communities, in their you know,I can't think of what I'm trying
(52:20):
to say right now, but like allof the communities that they
interact with, in some ways theyare the person that someone is
looking up to and saying I wantto be like that person, and so I
think, if we can recognize forourselves the impact that we
have on the world and let's justkeep it in a team and an
(52:43):
organizational context rightEven if I'm not in the
leadership position, I can stillinfluence the culture, I can
still influence the peoplearound me, and I can still
influence the people above meand the people below me, even if
I don't have an official title.
And so I think the mostimportant thing for employees is
to recognize that we are allleaders in some regard, and even
(53:05):
if not in the organization, wedon't have an official title, we
can still influence change, andI think that is yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (53:15):
Excellent.
Yes, I love it because I think,at its heart, leadership means
to influence, and we lean intothat in all different ways.
Aang Lakey (53:23):
Yeah, totally agree.
Dr. Leah OH (53:26):
Excellent Well, and thank you for sharing your time
and your expertise with ustoday.
I've had a lot of fun chattingwith you and learning more about
the work that you do, so thankyou again.
Aang Lakey (53:40):
Thank you so so much .
I really appreciate it again.
Dr. Leah OH (53:43):
So I thank you All right my friends, that wraps up
our conversation today.
Until next time, communicatewith intention and lead with
purpose.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith you again soon on the
Communicative Leader.
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