May 27, 2025 • 51 mins
John Gallagher, visionary leader behind Growing Champions coaching and consulting, shares his journey from mechanical engineer to renowned executive coach and discusses how his faith-based, structured approach transforms leaders from mediocrity to excellence.
Takeaways
- Mentorship can significantly shape one's leadership journey.
- Faith can provide a strong foundation for leadership principles.
- The greatest story ever told is about the impact we have on others.
- Overcoming mediocrity requires intentional growth and reflection.
- Lean methodology can be applied to leadership and personal development.
- Balance in life is about integration, not perfection.
- Intentional communication is key to building relationships.
- Discipline is essential for achieving long-term goals.
- Reading is a powerful tool for personal and professional growth.
- Setting aside focused time can lead to significant progress.
Visit GrowingChampions.com and check out John's podcast "The Uncommon Leader" and blog "The Champion's Brew" for more resources on leadership development.
Hey leader! Thanks for listening. For more leadership communication tips, check out https://www.thecommunicativeleader.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Leah OH (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of the Communicative
Leader.
I'm your host, dr Leah oh, andtoday we have a truly inspiring
guest, john Gallagher.
He is the visionary leaderbehind growing champions
coaching and consulting companyWith over 25 years of experience
in leadership and leanmethodology.
John has made a significantimpact as a consultant and coach
(00:22):
to some of the world's leadingorganizations, think IBM,
mitsubishi Electric and HarvardUniversity.
John's powerful and uniquemethodology, known as the
greatest story ever told, hastransformed the lives of
countless C-suite executives andsenior leaders.
He helped guide them fromunderperformance to achieving
(00:42):
unparalleled impact.
His personal transformationjourney even featured in Men's
Health and underscores hiscommitment to leading an
uncommon life.
Apart from his consultingexpertise, john is also a
celebrated author, podcaster andblogger.
His podcast, the UncommonLeader, and his blog, the
Champion's Brew, are invaluableresources for those seeking to
(01:06):
grow as leaders.
In today's episode, we're goingto explore how John's approach
to people, development,productivity and profitability
helps individuals andorganizations achieve their
fullest potential.
If you're ready to unlock thesecrets to becoming an uncommon
leader, this episode is packedwith valuable insights and
(01:27):
strategies.
Let's have some fun.
Hello and welcome to theCommunicative Leader hosted by
me, dr Leah O'Millian Hodges.
My friends call me Dr O, I'm aprofessor of communication and a
leadership communication expert.
On the Communicative Leader,we're working to make your work
life what you want it to be.
(01:48):
John, we're so excited to haveyou on the Communicative Leader
today, and before we dive intoour conversation, I was hoping
you could share your journey.
So you are a mechanicalengineering graduate and now
you're a renowned executivecoach and a visionary leader.
John Gallagher (02:10):
Leah, thank you so much for having me on as a
guest.
I'm looking forward to ourconversation today.
And you think about thatjourney.
Even the journey to justsitting here right now it
probably would not be consideredone of the more traditional for
a mechanical engineer.
As I went through college andcame out, I went into a
manufacturing training programand really moved out of the
state of West Virginia for thefirst time in my life outside of
(02:33):
a month in Minnesota.
But I was really a deer in theheadlights in terms of just
moving to a small city inIndiana but ultimately learning
to understand manufacturingAlong the way.
I just happened to a small cityin Indiana but ultimately
learning to understandmanufacturing Along the way.
I just happened to meet up witha couple of great mentors.
That truly helped me understandwhat the definition of
(02:54):
leadership was.
I mean, I had resigned myselfto, I was done with school, I
wasn't going to do any morereading anymore, I didn't need
to do growth anymore and I wasin for a rude awakening.
I had set my vision on what Iwanted my salary to be by a
certain age.
I got there by age 26.
I'm like well, what am I goingto do now I thought I had
arrived already, but a long waysto go.
(03:14):
It's amazing what can happenwhen mentors come into your life
and introduce you.
I had a mentor early on in myjourney who gave me the book the
21 Irrefutable Laws ofLeadership by John C Maxwell, a
book that many have read,millions of people have read,
and I continue to suggest thatbook today, some almost 30 years
later.
And he walked through that bookwith me chapter by chapter and
(03:36):
I was hooked and I understandkind of what the role of
leadership was.
And while being a mechanicalengineer was very challenging,
it really was, from apersonality profile standpoint,
natural for me to be more on therelationship side than I was on
the science side of engineering.
Ultimately, that led me intomany different things my first
leadership opportunity at age 28at a manufacturing facility,
(04:01):
ultimately moving about fourtimes in the period of the next
15 years in industries such asmanufacturing but also in real
estate.
And then I ended up once I rodethat market down in 2009,
deciding to get back intomanufacturing because that was
where I was very comfortable inleadership and I kept getting
pushed over, kept getting nudgedover into this space of
(04:23):
consulting.
I had learned the leanmanufacturing philosophy.
I had pushed back against itfor a while and finally someone
said well, we need you to do itin healthcare, in hospitals and
clinics and I thought that's afascinating idea.
I could do that for a couple ofyears be a consultant and work
in hospitals and clinics, learnsomething new and then get back
into operations again real quickin the future.
(04:44):
Well, that was nearly 15 yearsago.
In consulting 2020, covid got achance to be escorted out of
the organization because ourmodel just slowed down.
We couldn't get into hospitalsand clinics anymore and decided
to start my own company, growingChampions.
And five years later, here weare today having a conversation
about communication on theCommunicative Leader Podcast.
(05:06):
It's pretty exciting.
Dr. Leah OH (05:07):
Yeah, yeah, and I really this is always one of my
favorite questions because Iwork with a lot of students,
right, my day job.
I'm a professor and they, youknow at in your early twenties,
you do think it's going to bevery linear and you're like this
is it?
And I laugh too, because we'rewrapping up the semester and my
undergrad's finishing up.
(05:28):
I'm like I'm not doing anotherassignment, I'm not going to buy
another textbook, like I amdone.
So it's fun to always hear thata lot of times we end up in
these unexpected places, butwhen these new doors open, we
recognize how we can build onthese previous skills that we've
had or interests.
John Gallagher (05:49):
Absolutely, and I think about that because the
difference between maybe at 26and today for me at 56, are
those experience and stories andthe books that I've read over
that 30-year journey, the peoplethat I've had a chance to meet.
I mean the job opportunitiesare interesting in very diverse
spaces, but it's really thoseexperiences, those books that
you read and those people thatyou meet are what form you into
(06:12):
the person that you are overtime.
And so it's funny that youmentioned that and I smile and I
know my mom always listens toany of the podcasts that I'm on.
It gives her something to do.
But she would always say Inever would have seen you as a
reader.
You didn't read when you werelittle and you didn't read
certainly after college andthings like that.
But I always loved to tease herbecause I've become a reader,
(06:35):
no doubt about it in my journey,very intentional reader in that
journey, and I think that'svery important.
Dr. Leah OH (06:39):
You're like it happened for me, mom, that's
great.
She's my bookshelf behind me.
She's like where did all thatstuff come from?
Well, john, I know that youtake a faith-based approach to
your work and your consultingand I was hoping you could talk
to us about how your faithinfluences the way you coach
others and you guide others tohelp them strive to achieve
(07:01):
their potential.
John Gallagher (07:03):
Love the question.
Back to this story situationagain.
It was an experience that I hadback in 2009.
I was at a retreat a leadershipretreat ultimately designing my
life plan and how I wanted myfuture to look in terms of work,
in terms of my family, in termsof finances an exercise that I
(07:24):
had done before and I was doinga refresh of that life plan, and
I had my Bible with me at thetime and, clearly, back when I
was 15 years ago, I was not aswell versed in the Bible as I
might be today and I stillwouldn't consider myself a
scholar by any stretch.
But I just decided, while I wasworking on that plan, to open
(07:44):
that Bible up and almostserendipitously whatever that is
I don't think that's the rightword I think there was an
intention.
I opened it up to John 15,which talked about the verses
that spoke about Jesus being thevine and we are the branches,
and that we are called to bearfruit in our lives and the lives
of others, and it really got methinking a bunch in terms of
(08:07):
how I was being as a leader,bearing fruit in my own life as
well as in the lives of others.
So I started to play with thatjust a little bit and ultimately
it led to kind of this treethat was in my mind for a few
years and understanding how tobear fruit.
Well, fast forward about 10years 2020,.
Again, I have the opportunityto be escorted out of the
(08:30):
organization, decide to start abusiness on my own, and I'm
working on the logo for GrowingChampions, the company that I
created, and I'm working with adesigner who brings me three
options and I just tell him Isaid I'd like a tree to be part
of that option.
With regards to the logo, hebrings me back to very
traditional trees that are there.
(08:52):
But the third one was one thatcaught my eye.
It was actually a gentlemancoming out of the water with his
arms raised high and leaveskind of around his arms.
That formed the silhouette, orultimately the picture, of what
appeared to be a tree, and whileit made me very uncomfortable
at the time in terms ofunderstanding faith inside of my
(09:13):
business, upon reflection ithelped me to realize that, no,
that was really going back those10 years.
What I was being called to dowas bear fruit, and I started to
study that a little bit more.
I mean those two words togetherin the Bible bear fruit appear
29 times and the word fruitappears over 200 times in the
Bible in terms of.
So you know, I just feltobviously there was a calling
(09:35):
for me to bear fruit and as Iwork with those one-on-one
leaders that I coach on aregular basis or those
organizations that I coach, Ibelieve that I've been called to
not only bear fruit in my lifebut to help them to bear fruit
in their work.
Now, whether that'sspecifically talking about
scripture or not, that's reallynot what it's all about.
(09:56):
But it is about leading abusiness that has more purpose
than just making a profit thatthey've got to be intentional at
creating, that they, I believe,would benefit from a servant
mindset of both developingthemselves and developing others
, implementing structures andprocesses that support that so
(10:16):
that they can have a strongimpact in the future.
So this journey for me on thefaith has been an evolution over
time over the period of 15years, and I have become more or
well-versed in the Bible overtime.
But I still have a long ways togo and I just you know, I know
that I think.
Last thing on that, I thinkthere's really three books that
(10:36):
almost all leadership books aremodeled after.
One of those is the SevenHabits of Highly Effective
People by Stephen Covey.
Think and Grow Rich is theSeven Habits of Highly Effective
People by Stephen Covey Thinkand Grow Rich.
And then the third one is theBible.
That it's kind of the roadmapfor leadership done correctly
inside of a business.
Dr. Leah OH (10:53):
Yeah, thank you, john.
When you were responding tothat question, I kept thinking
about the power of a generativeapproach, right and, like you
said, bearing fruit and I likethat idea of essentially just
thinking about, yes, how do weget a return on investment, but
how do we leave things betterthan when we found them?
John Gallagher (11:13):
Yes, amen, absolutely.
How do we as individuals?
I often hark back to a quotefrom Irma Bombeck, who talks
about at the end of her life.
She wanted to make sure thatshe had exhausted all of the
gifts that she had been givenand not leave anything inside
the tank, so to speak, and Ithink that's just a great vision
is that we've been given thesegifts.
We need to steward those giftsthat we've been given, whether
(11:36):
it's gifts of leadership,whether that's gifts financially
or, ultimately, gifts to beable to serve in the space that
we can leave the world a betterplace and not quit doing that
until we're done.
Dr. Leah OH (11:49):
Use it all up.
Yeah yeah, that is reallypowerful, and let's continue
with this thread because I knowyou have a methodology the
greatest story ever told and ithas a really profound impact on
executives.
So I was hoping you couldexplain these principles and
then how you can have used it tohelp leaders overcome things
(12:10):
that are holding them back orovercome mediocrity.
John Gallagher (12:15):
Sure and I love that again because I think
that's one of the barriers thatkeeps folks from growing faster
is mediocrity, is acceptingwhere you are not growing,
specifically with regards to thegreatest story ever told.
So let's keep the faithintegration as a part of that.
I do believe that the greateststory ever told was the life,
death and resurrection of JesusChrist.
Having said that, as leaders wetalked about that we have
(12:39):
opportunity to grow ourselves,to bear fruit and grow others
and grow organizations, and howdo we really measure that?
How do we measure that impact?
I talk about the greatest storyever told in the life of a
leader is when someone issitting down in a room and
they're asked a question bysomeone to write the name of
five individuals who, in theirlife, have made a positive
(13:02):
impact on their life.
Now, as we think about thatquestion again, another quote
that comes to mind is,ultimately, that people won't
remember what you said.
They won't remember what youdid.
They'll remember how they madeyou feel, and oftentimes we
can't remember what somebodysaid the last five years in a
speech.
Or, frankly, if you went to seea comedian, you can't remember
(13:23):
any of his jokes.
When you leave five minuteslater you often don't remember
what people did as well.
Many times people struggle toremember the most valuable
players of Super Bowls, eventhough it's one.
You know the last five SuperBowls.
But many people, almost allpeople, do not have trouble
recalling in their entire lifepeople who have made a positive
(13:45):
impact on their life and made adifference.
And the story of the greateststory ever told really is when
someone writes your name ontheir list and you may never
even know about it, but that'sthe greatest story ever told.
So I often finish up withexecutives asking them a
question who's going to writeyour name on their list?
And once you've identifiedthose individuals, and how are
(14:08):
you going to intentionally buildrelationships with those five
individuals to create that storyin the future?
Again, even though you maynever hear that or see that one
of the most humbling things youcan do as a leader is to write
your own eulogy.
That One of the most humblingthings you can do as a leader is
to write your own eulogy.
John Maxwell, one of myfavorite authors, a mentor of
(14:31):
mine that I would say because ofthe books that he's written,
would say your life is going tobe defined in one sentence at
your eulogy.
Why don't you go ahead andwrite that sentence today and so
that you can start tointentionally create that and
then know the people at yourfuneral are going to say these
certain things?
That's the greatest story evertold.
Dr. Leah OH (14:49):
Yeah, and I really love that idea.
I mean, if we're thinking aboutthat eulogy, like you said,
it's going to happen, so let'stake time to embrace it, but it
gives us a chance.
We're not going to staymediocre if we're living to an
aspiration that we want to seefor ourselves, that we want to
fulfill and that's so powerful.
(15:11):
Excellent, absolutely.
But I know in preparing forthis conversation, you've
mentioned that you've hadstruggles with confidence and
imposter syndrome in the pastand I'm wondering how you've
kind of transformed thosechallenges and how those
(15:35):
experiences shape your coachingtoday or the development of
these methodologies that youshare to empower others.
John Gallagher (15:44):
Love this question.
It's one that ultimately led meinto coaching, to lead me into
wanting to make a difference inthe lives of others.
So I wish this were my quote,but it's not Rory Vaden, the CEO
of Brand Builders Group and aHall of Fame speaker.
He said you are most powerfullypositioned to help the person
that you used to be, and I justfound that I was listening to
(16:04):
that on a podcast one day when Iwas driving in Chicago and
almost had a wreck when Ilistened to it, trying to rewind
and hear it again so that Icould remember it, and it led me
to being coached by hisorganization.
But when I think about that interms of confidence and imposter
syndrome not being worthy, Ihearken back another story.
(16:25):
I was having a performancereview done in my early 30s, a
little over 20 years ago, and Iwas sitting around this big
conference table and my boss wasacross me from the table and
what was really profound aboutit is that the room was all
glass and people were walkingaround outside.
They knew I was getting myperformance review.
I had been the acting presidentfor this company here and my
boss, who's still my mentor,friend and business partner
(16:47):
today in the different levels,but still we're still working
together was giving myperformance review to me as a
president, and he walked throughthat performance review on a
scale of one to five, absolutelygave me true feedback, kind
feedback, great feedback, and Igot a 2.3 out of 5.
(17:08):
Yeah, and it was the hardest,most loving performance review I
had ever had.
And I remember sitting thereafter the performance review was
over and I was almostspeechless and I actually again
mid-early 30s I had these twotears that started rolling down
my cheeks.
I couldn't even say anything, Ijust had these tears that were
there and all I just rememberthe last thing that I said was I
(17:31):
need help and I you know Iasked for help.
I had learned about a coachingcompany some 60 days earlier
that was available and I saidI'd like to work with this
company and that that bossinvested in me.
What does that mean in terms ofconfidence in how I coach today
?
And the imposter syndrome is Ihad a choice to make at that
point in time.
I could have chosen to takethat feedback very negatively or
(17:55):
I could have chosen to takethat feedback and to grow from
it and those two people that Iwanted to help in my coaching.
Was me sitting there receivingthat feedback and recognizing
that I wanted to grow.
Was me sitting there receivingthat feedback and recognizing
that I wanted to grow, but alsothe gentleman on the other side
of the table who had learned togive great feedback, to be
truthful and loving in thefeedback that he had given and
(18:15):
let me know what I needed togrow.
I wanted to be able to helpboth of those individuals on
this journey, so I spent a longtime kind of growing, being
coached myself, learning amethodology in terms of coaching
, brought that into myconsulting work and some of the
relationships that I wasbuilding with C-suite executives
and ultimately recognized that,through some intentional
(18:36):
relationship building, I wasstarting to make some impact in
their lives as a result of someof the stories that I had, and
so it gave me some confidence tothink about starting my own
business and coaching one day.
Still didn't make it easy forme to make that jump, but
ultimately it led to theorganization Growing Champions,
which was really about growingyourself and growing others as
(18:59):
leaders to be the champions theywere called to be.
Dr. Leah OH (19:01):
Yeah yeah, what a profound experience.
Champions, they were called tobe.
Yeah yeah, what a profoundexperience.
And I love that you can use thewords hopeful and loving in that
delivery of feedback, becausethat is like you said that's not
an easy position to be in, andI think it is much easier to
dismiss it, as they all don'tunderstand what I'm doing.
They're not at this, at mylevel, so this makes sense
(19:25):
instead of saying, wow, what isthe truth in here?
What can I take from this togrow from?
Yeah, that's incredible, allright, so let's shift gears a
little bit.
You talked about leanmethodology already.
You've mentioned that, and sowe know that you have this
(19:45):
extensive experience across acouple industries with lean
methodology.
And I'm wondering now in yourcoaching business, do you
incorporate these principles inhelping others?
And if so, you know how do yousee these methods as helping to
drive productivity and growth?
John Gallagher (20:06):
Such a good question and I love that because
you know, when I think aboutthat, here's where my engineer
comes back inside of me.
While I have some of theseleadership characteristics as
well, the engineer behind me islike I love structure, I love
framework, I love process.
And I had been going forward ona journey, trying to muscle my
way through that in mymanufacturing career, like, oh,
(20:28):
I can figure out how to solvethis problem myself, I don't
need any help.
And one day we had theseconsultants come in 1998, were
going to teach us how to do thisthing called lean.
I'm like I don't need this, Idon't need these people in my
life to show me how to do this.
I tell you a week-long rapidimprovement event, or Kaizen
event that we called it, kaizenbeing changed for the better.
(20:49):
I was hooked.
It was the framework thathooked me in terms of making
that change happen.
It was really a seven-stepprocess ultimately documenting
reality, identifying the wastein the processes and the waste
being those things that justkeep us from getting to where we
want to do Brainstorming,countermeasures or working
together as a team to make thosethings happen, actually making
(21:11):
changes in one week and not justtalking about it, but actually
making improvements, verifyingthe results did it really work
or not?
And then ultimately making thatthe new standard when it did
work.
And those steps through thatprocess have been the same
whether it's an organizationlooking to improve a financial
process like month-end close, orhow they hire individuals, or
(21:33):
how they make a certain product,or whether it's those same
steps as a leader of how yougrow as well Document reality,
where you are today as a leader,and understanding the waste or
what gets in.
What are the distractions thatkeep you from going forward.
It's like the methodology justbecame pure and then the step I
added really at the end was thecontinuous improvement side of
(21:54):
you got to do it again.
Once you get to a certain pointof improvement using this
framework, you're not done,you've just begun when you think
you're done.
And that's the fun part aboutLean.
What I really learned is it wascontinuous improvement.
We didn't have to get toperfect at the first time, but
we wanted to move toward perfectin that problem-solving
methodology.
So those tools I often refer tolean as the passionate pursuit
(22:17):
of the elimination of wastethose tools work in our business
processes.
Those tools work in our dailyleadership processes.
Those tools work in ourchurches and our homes.
I could go on for days about thedifferent tools within that
six-step or seven-step framework, when you add in the continuous
(22:38):
improvement side to really getfolks to think about it.
But if you can find a problemand it doesn't have to be lean,
but if you can find aproblem-solving methodology that
has a structure to it and youcan repeat that over and over
again, you're bound to besuccessful.
But the foundation of leanreally is, as they taught us,
continuous improvement.
You can always get better.
(22:59):
But the second one was respectfor people as well.
So there was a human componentto that that really drove me as
well to say these tools reallywork.
Yeah, I love it.
It probably drives my wifecrazy and others, frankly, that
I work with, because I walk intoa restaurant and I'm evaluating
flow.
(23:19):
It's the perspective that Ihave.
It's just how I'm wired.
Dr. Leah OH (23:22):
Yeah.
John Gallagher (23:22):
Back to that engineering thing and she's like
can we just enjoy the meal?
I'm like no, look how they'redelivering the food to us.
They could do it so much betterif they just called me oh,
that's funny.
Dr. Leah OH (23:33):
And what I want to raise up from that response is
because a lot of times werecognize people are shifting
careers more today than theyever have in the past and I
think a lot of people think, oh,I'm no longer in engineering,
that stays locked up in myengineering box.
But there are so many, like yousaid, these tools, these ways
(23:57):
of thinking, these skill setsthat we have, that can just make
us even better in these newcapacities.
And it's kind of figure out howdo I use that lens here?
How can I pull out this tooland and adapt it for what I'm
doing now?
John Gallagher (24:17):
Absolutely yeah.
I mean because, again, that'sthe thing we think we need to
keep relearning things over andover again, when really it's
just changing the perspective onthe structures and frameworks
we've already learned.
All the way back I had aphysician that I worked with.
He said you know all thesethings you're teaching me in
Lean?
I learned in kindergartenThings like a place for
(24:37):
everything and everything in itsplace.
I'm like Michael it sounds likea book.
You could write Everything Ilearned about Lean I learned in
kindergarten.
He said he was going to writethat one day.
I don't think he has yet, butit's true.
If we can keep things simple aswell, it can be very helpful.
Dr. Leah OH (24:51):
Yes, that makes sense.
I have a kindergartner now andI'm thinking like, yes, these
are things that he comes homeand tells us.
So we were just talking aboutchange and I am wondering you
know, what is some of your go toadvice that you offer leaders
and others who you work withthat are resistant to change or
really hesitant to try a newapproach to leadership or
(25:14):
development or business orwhatever it is?
How do you help them get overthat?
John Gallagher (25:20):
I love the question, too, about change.
I mean, look, change is good,as long as it doesn't happen to
me, right.
Dr. Leah OH (25:26):
Yeah.
John Gallagher (25:26):
I mean asking you to change I think, as human
beings we tend to be avert, wehave an aversion to change, but
we also have a perspective ofespecially inside of industry or
inside of personal growth thatif we stay where we are we're
not going to win.
So let's first recognize thisand what I talk about, folks,
(25:48):
that change is a choice thatindividuals have to make, that
they're ready to go.
I mean, this is kind of anotherjob maximalism.
Change is inevitable.
Growth is optional.
You are either going to changeor someone's going to change you
and you have to understand that.
But this comes back to that wordyou used before with regards to
mediocrity.
I often use the wordcomplacency.
(26:10):
People change when thedispleasure of remaining where
they are today is greater thanthe discomfort of the change
itself, because change is noteasy.
Change requires us to do thingsdifferently.
I often teach folks to foldtheir arms and recognize which
arm is over top, and then askthem to fold their arms the
(26:32):
other way and put that arm ontop.
And how uncomfortable that is.
Change is uncomfortable, butwe've got to get past the
displeasure of complacency, thedispleasure of mediocrity.
I know that we can get betterbefore we're truly going to make
a change.
So I think that's the big thing.
You've got to make the choicethat where you are today is not
(26:54):
where you want to be and youwant to move toward the person
or leader you were called to be.
You want to move toward theorganization that has the
potential to have the impactthat it wants to have.
So many different paths wecould go down on change, but I
mean, I often have the questionbefore I take on a client are
you ready to change?
(27:14):
Because if you want me to justtell you that everything you're
doing is okay, that's not goingto happen.
So oftentimes, when they invest, when they make an investment,
especially a financialinvestment in coaching or in
consulting, that helps put someskin in the game for them and
gives them another reason.
But really that change isinside of them that they have to
get ready for yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (27:35):
Yeah, and I really love that idea is that once that
displeasure of continuing to bewhere you are outweighs what
you know will be some discomfortwith the change you know, then
it's time to exercise thatoption and say, okay, let's see
what that looks like.
What's behind door number two?
John Gallagher (27:53):
Absolutely Exactly right.
I'm ready to change.
It could be a health scare Forme.
It was a health scare eightyears ago that finally got me.
The displeasure of remainingthe same, overweight and out of
balance, overcame the discomfortof going to the gym four times
a week, getting a trainer stopeating French fries those types
of things that were not helpingme get to where I was called to
(28:16):
be.
Dr. Leah OH (28:17):
Yeah, yeah.
And so, thinking about change,thinking about growth, I want to
add in another word, and thatis balance.
And I think this can be so hard.
So I'm wondering you know, howdo you guide leaders in
balancing their professional ortheir personal development along
with all of these professionalresponsibilities to kind of help
(28:39):
them achieve holistic success?
So you know, especially leaders, that to-do list it seems never
to get shorter, no matter what,but we still want to invest and
grow as a person.
So how do we do that?
John Gallagher (28:55):
Kim again.
Leah, I love this question.
The questions are really goodthat you're asking and they
challenge other leaders.
First thing I generally don'tuse is the word balance, because
it's very difficult to do right.
I often use the wordintegration life integration
rather than life balances.
How do I integrate all thethings that are important to me?
So the way that I do that withothers is inside of the greatest
(29:16):
story ever told methodology.
After they've really written theimpact that they want to have,
I have them do an assessment insix areas of their life, not
just their fruiture my wordfruit there's that word fruit
again their fruiture being theircareer, their vocation that, in
essence, brings them money.
It's not just that, but it'salso their family, their faith,
(29:37):
their finances, their fitness ortheir health and fun.
What are they doing to have fun?
And so those six Fs I have themreally write a picture of what
it looks like for them 15, 20years out with regards to a
vision in each one of thoseareas.
And I'm not talking about likewho I'm married to, but just
(29:58):
like what I see happening.
I'm walking on the beach, orI'm living, you know, somewhere
warm, or whatever that means.
Or you know I don't have debt.
I mean, those are.
Those are really good things tostart thinking about from a
vision standpoint.
And then I get them torecognize okay, if that's your
vision, now we have to move tothe how.
What are those things that youhave to do daily, weekly and
(30:20):
monthly to be successful in allof those spaces?
To get there and to your point,I think the balance.
While there may be seasons thatthey have to be a little bit
out of balance in terms of timeand where they're investing, you
got to recognize those are sixballs that you're juggling all
the time and some of those ballsare glass and some of them are
(30:41):
really rubber that can bounceback if you drop them.
The family ball, that family Fyou're not going to drop that
one because you want that to be.
That's a glass ball, for onething, and that can really lead
you to something.
So, understanding that theredoes have to be time invested
whether it's with your spouseand date night, or it's
(31:01):
vacations with the kids, or it'sreading time with your children
and getting them to grow, orhaving dinner three days a week
with your family that those aresome of the vision type things
that are there.
Once they recognize thosedisciplines.
Then I have them take a lookand say, okay, now let's put it
into your calendar.
Where does it show up in yourcalendar that you're dedicating
(31:22):
that time to them?
One of the tools that I useinside of my coaching is called
the ideal week template.
I have them draw up the sevenday ideal week, from when they
wake up to when they get tosleep each night, and what would
be the activities that fillthose days for them to be ideal.
Not that they would ever getthere, because, again, ideal may
(31:43):
be something we can't get to,but it allows them to compare
their calendar and compare theirperformance and reflect and say
what went well this week andwhat could have gone better,
because then I can have anopportunity to move toward what
that ideal week is, knowing Imay never get there.
The last thing on kind of thistip, on kind of balance or
(32:04):
integration, and I use that wordseason If you find yourself in
a season for three or fourmonths, that's not a season
anymore anymore.
Okay, where you're working longdays six, seven, eight, nine
o'clock at night, working thosedays because I'm in a season of
busyness and trying to explainthat to your family.
(32:25):
It's not a season when it goeson that long.
It's your lifestyle and we'regoing back to that decision to
make a change.
You got to learn to prioritizeproperly and find out if that's
the way you really want to live.
Dr. Leah OH (32:37):
Yeah, that's so helpful.
John, I think you know thisidea.
I think so many people will say, well, I want to be here one
day, but they don't know how tounpack it and to actually make
that.
And you helped us to thinkabout how you can make it a bit
of a roadmap, you know, to fromwhere you are to where you want
(32:57):
to be.
And I really appreciate thatidea that, if it's, you know
three, four months that it's nolonger a season and that is a,
you know, an indicator to you.
Look in the mirror, look atwhat's going on, look at these
choices and figure out if that'sa lifestyle that works for us
(33:18):
and our family and serveseveryone well, and if it's not,
then, like you said, it's timeto make a change.
It's really helpful, yeah,because I think so often we just
get stuck and we're like that'sseason and you're like, oh,
it's been five years, it's beenseven years.
John Gallagher (33:36):
Well, that's why I love the intentional
discipline of reflection,whether that's a weekly
reflection for 15 minutes on aFriday where you look back over
your week, or whether it's aquarterly reflection where you
look at that greatest story evertold and assess am I doing well
in some of these areas and Icould be doing better?
What do I need to keep doing,start doing and stop doing to
(33:57):
start moving closer to thatgreatest story ever told?
Intentionality is so important.
Yeah, that's so important.
I love that.
I mean good intention withoutdiscipline leads to excuses.
Dr. Leah OH (34:08):
Yeah, exactly.
John Gallagher (34:09):
Good discipline with good intention leads to
excellence, and I think thoseare two things that folks have
got to realize.
We've all got good intentions.
We want these things to workout.
We get afraid of this worddiscipline for some reason, but
without discipline, all we endup doing is saying I want to do
that someday.
Some is not a number and soonis not a time.
How do we get discipline todoing things?
Dr. Leah OH (34:31):
Yep, that reminds me years, years ago, when I was
doing my dissertation and I lovewriting, I love research, but
the dissertation it just feelsso unwieldy because it is such a
large piece of writing.
And I remember just kind ofGoogling it because I was
(34:52):
feeling stuck and I saw a graphand it showed that motivation
was up and down, up and down, upand down, but discipline was
very consistent and I was likethis is okay, I'm not going to
be motivated every day to workon this, and that's okay.
And it just gave me so muchfreedom.
(35:12):
I think freedom is the word butand peace?
John Gallagher (35:15):
Well, yeah, it is a word right, and so folks
see discipline as constricting,when it's actually freedom done
correctly.
Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (35:23):
And then and then, all of a sudden, it was
manageable.
It was like you know how do youeat the whale, one forkful at a
time.
It's like this is how this isgoing to get done.
So thank you for bringing thatup.
Yeah, that really was an eyeop,so let's Great.
John Gallagher (35:40):
I think about that.
I love going through that withfolks.
I mean there's so manydifferent things that come to my
mind.
You talked about the disciplineand the line right.
Motivation goes like this.
Motivation dissipatesabsolutely.
A picture I often draw ispushing a ball up a hill.
A team's pushing a rock up ahill.
They're solving a problem usinga methodology and they get
distracted and they'll walk awayfrom that ball.
(36:02):
Right.
And once they walk away fromthat ball, it rolls back down
the hill again.
Okay.
But if we have the disciplineto be the wedge that goes in
place underneath that rock, wecan then walk away for a little
bit, knowing we have thediscipline to follow the
processes, to be moreintentional with the work that
we do and keep that improvementin place.
Dr. Leah OH (36:21):
Absolutely.
I love that.
That illustration I Very visual.
That's really helpful.
So let's think about yourpodcast, john, because I know
that you have the UncommonLeader podcast and I'm just
wondering this is really aquestion for me and I think
others will be really interestedtoo but all of the amazing
guests that you've had, I'mwondering what are some of the
(36:44):
memorable insights that you'vetaken away from that work that
you've done there?
John Gallagher (36:50):
You know it's funny that inside of my podcast
I never would have imagined theimpact of the first question
that I use and that's asking anyof the guests to tell me a
story from their childhood thatstill impacts who they are as a
person or as a leader today, andthen weaving the conversation
oftentimes back to that storyand connecting that yeah, back
(37:13):
to that quote.
You're most powerfullypositioned to help the person
you used to be.
It identifies that and how thatgoes.
One of my favorite stories andI've had pastors and I've had
executives and I've had authorsbut a lot of different people on
the podcast One of my favoritestories is I had Auntie Ann
Beiler on the former CEO ofAuntie Ann's Pretzels and she
(37:35):
told the story of her childhoodand a tragedy that she went
through and as she startedthrough that story it was
actually an awareness for her.
As she started to talk about twobooks she had written, she's
like, oh my goodness, this kindof makes sense.
It ties back to that storyreally well, and so seeing some
(37:56):
of that awareness with theleaders that I interview on the
podcast is really cool.
I've done 150, some episodes,whatever it is.
I've done about three years nowand I can count on one hand the
stories that have brought me totears, and I tell those folks
that when you bring me to tears,not that I'm not empathetic or
(38:18):
because I often come to tears,but those are impactful stories
and, like whoa, I wasn't readyto hear that one.
Now, that doesn't mean thateverybody needs that tragedy to
be able to tell a story.
There are many things thathappen in our lives, though,
that shape us for our future,and I'm often amazed at how
(38:40):
those stories connect so well.
Dr. Leah OH (38:42):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I like pulling out thosethreads and again the emphasis,
on reflection, that if we're notdoing it we're really missing
out a lot of understanding of, Ithink, the whys why we're doing
things and why we're makingcertain choices.
John Gallagher (39:02):
Absolutely.
I mean that.
Why is so critical, gosh?
I mean back to anotherframework when you make the
choice to change.
Okay, how am I going to startto, in essence, illustrate or
ultimately share that why?
And I use the framework, I callit so what now?
What so that?
So, what is the opportunityyou're trying to create Now?
(39:24):
What is?
What must you do?
You must take some action andthe so that is what's the big
reason why that's going to occur, because that's what's going to
get you up out of bed every day, that's what's going to help
you avoid hitting the snoozewhen it goes off.
That's going to get you throughthose tough times Because, as
we said, motivation dissipates.
And I've used verses in theBible to help create that
(39:46):
framework.
Paul in the New Testament was abeast in how he used that so
that, telling us what we neededto do.
But the ultimate verse is oneof the most common verses of the
Bible John 3, 16, where God soloved the world that he gave his
one and only son.
There's the so what?
He loved the world so much sothat he gave his one and only
(40:08):
son.
I'm sorry now, what was?
He gave his one and only son,but the so that was that if we
believed, ultimately we wouldhave eternal life.
I mean that framework works indefining problems.
That keeps us going and, asChristians, regardless of where
your faith is, setting up aframework like that is very
important, but that's the sothat that keeps us going forward
(40:30):
as Christians.
Dr. Leah OH (40:31):
Yeah, yeah, what a powerful, powerful framework,
and I'm always struck thatoftentimes it's the simplest
frameworks, the simplest ideasthat are the ones that are going
to best position to catapultyou to be successful.
Right, because you can rememberit.
It is accessible, it makessense.
(40:52):
You know anyone can plug it in,and just about any aspect of
their life.
So thank you for sharing that.
John Gallagher (40:59):
You're welcome.
Dr. Leah OH (41:00):
So we've talked about, you know, all of these
frameworks, these principles,your Uncommon Leader podcast,
but I'm wondering if there areother resources or practices you
recommend for aspiring leaderswho are, you know, really
focused on continuing to growand evolve.
John Gallagher (41:19):
Sure.
Well, I mean, as I kind of saidor alluded to a little bit
earlier, I do believe thatreaders are leaders.
So other resources, otherdisciplines that come in.
I books are somewhere in theneighborhood of 230 to 240 pages
.
If you just read 10 pages a day, okay, you're going to read
(41:50):
somewhere in the neighborhood ofone to two books a month.
Times 12 months, that's 24books in a year.
So 10 pages a day is going toleave you at 24 books a year.
We often say we don't have thetime to read books.
Well, when we have a horizonout there that says I want to
read 24 books, it feels so big,that horizon is so far out.
Sometimes it overwhelms us.
If I bring that horizon in andsay I just want you to read 10
(42:12):
pages a day, that seems moredoable.
That seems like something I canput in as a discipline every
morning in my habit to make thathappen.
Reading is a discipline everymorning in my habit to make that
happen.
So reading is a discipline.
And then ultimately, throughreading, if you don't have the
money to invest in terms of acoach or a mentor, those books
can be mentors for you.
John C Maxwell became a mentorfor me and I didn't meet him for
(42:34):
another 10 years after I readthe first book.
There's a picture of he and Ithe first time I met him almost
10 years after I read his book,but there's the list of all the
books that I've read from him aswell.
He's become a mentor that I'vedone that over time.
Other resources are podcasts apodcast like this to hear from
other leaders to improvecommunication, or the Uncommon
(42:55):
Leader Podcast.
Thank you for calling that outas well, but I have three or
four that I follow on a regularbasis.
It's hard to follow 20 or 30 ofthem.
That can become overwhelming aswell, but it's a choice.
If you're at the gym and youoften listen to music when
you're working out, switch thatover.
Stack that habit and put thatpodcast on while you're at the
gym.
Walking on the treadmill.
Learn while you're running orwalking on the treadmill to
(43:18):
become better and stack thoseimportant habits and then find
someone to emulate in yourleadership.
Okay, I'm not saying to copyeverything that they do or to be
like them, but to emulate someof the characteristics of those
individuals that you find to bevery powerful and impactful and
start to learn from them.
Dr. Leah OH (43:36):
Yeah, oh, that's so helpful, john.
I really love all of those andI love that idea of stacking
different habits and reallyfiguring out you know you might
be in a really, really busyseason.
I've got young kids, so they'reoften they're not enough
minutes in a day right now, butduring a commute or if I'm
folding laundry, putting on apodcast, something where I'm
(44:00):
getting these other things done.
But it's just a little bit forme as well, and then it also
counts as self-care, right.
John Gallagher (44:07):
So Absolutely counts as self-care, which is
very important as well, no doubtabout it.
Dr. Leah OH (44:12):
So, john, I have two final questions for you, and
they are integrated.
This is the way that we end allepisodes of the communicative
leader, episodes of thecommunicative leader.
So the first one is asking for,you know, advice or a pragmatic
tip or a challenge for ourtitled leaders.
And then the second part of thequestion is again what is the
(44:33):
tip, advice or challenge foremployees across all ranks, all
industries, all levels?
John Gallagher (44:40):
Love this.
There's so many different waysthat you go more frameworks
right in terms of what happened.
Back to the engineer in meloves to talk about how these
processes work.
Look, when I think about itfrom a titled leader standpoint
and executives, oftentimes weget closed up in our office
because we're important andfocused on ourself.
You touched on this withregards to even self-care a
little bit, but I encouragetitled leaders to become more
(45:03):
intentional.
Back to that greatest storyever told and the five people
are going to write your name ontheir list.
While that may not be all of thepeople that work for you or on
your team, it's very importantto intentionally build
relationships and find time tocommunicate with them.
A framework that I love to talkabout.
I call it 3-2-1.
It's very easy Three coffees,two lunches and a dinner each
(45:28):
month with those individuals.
If you're leading a virtualteam, you can do a virtual
coffee or a virtual lunch.
Call that happens, but identifythree people that you want to
have coffee with, two peoplethat you want to have lunch with
to go a little bit deeper, andone person on your team that you
really want to get to know orgive them some feedback and have
dinner with, and then get thosethings on your calendar every
(45:50):
month and then, frankly, measureyourself to it.
Create a goal.
If that's three, two, one,those six touches every month
and see what's getting in yourway.
If you're not getting to thosesix touches, then I would
encourage you to take a look atyour calendar, because that
intentional communication, thatintentional relationship
building, is so important.
By the way, that works in salesas well Three, two, one, three
(46:11):
coffees, two lunches and adinner.
You're talking about leadgeneration or clients that I
need to work to connect with tomake sure everything's going
okay.
Find a use of that framework tohelp you intentionally build
communication and buildrelationships with those
individuals, with regards to allemployees.
(46:35):
Look, I come back to that worddiscipline.
Distractions get in our way,there's no doubt about it, and
excellence only happens onpurpose, okay, so we've got to
be more intentional at removingthose distractions from our life
.
Look, this little thing righthere is supposed to make us more
productive than we've ever been, and it is potentially one of
the biggest distractions that weface on a daily basis Text
(46:57):
messages ringing through everyday, checking our email, social
media death scrolling, if youwant to call it.
That is very important, but forall employees, even the
non-title leaders, one of thetools that I talk about and I'd
be willing to share it with yourlisteners as well, if they want
to check that out on my websiteis the 47 most productive
(47:17):
minutes in a leader's day, andthat's setting a timer for 47
minutes and turning off alldistractions.
Put your phone in airplane mode, turn your email off and work
on a project and focus on it for47 minutes.
Set a timer and focus on it for47 minutes.
Why 47 minutes?
I don't know.
There's no science behind it.
(47:38):
For me, I went through a healthprogram in 2017 when I lost 80
pounds, called the 47 Days ofTransformation.
So I just think weunderestimate what we can do in
47 seconds and 47 minutes.
But what that also allows us todo is, at the end of that 47
minutes, come back into the realworld again.
Use the last 13 minutes of thathour to check in on what you
(47:59):
missed.
Okay, to actually take a breakbefore you go to your next
meeting that are back-to-backand get yourself a glass of
water.
Heaven forbid to go to therestroom before you go to your
next meeting, but that those 47minutes, if someone can't get 47
minutes in their day withoutany distractions because they
have too much stuff going on,then I think we're missing the
(48:23):
purpose as leaders.
That self-care word you talkedabout we've got to find the time
to take care Because maybethat's in the 47 minutes.
You're just reading a bookundistracted for 47 minutes.
You're going to get to the endof the 47 minutes, that timer is
going to go off and you'regoing to keep going because it
felt so good and it went by sofast, important to stop so you
can take care of those otherthings.
(48:44):
But I think that's a powerfultool that all of us can use in
our own personal development.
Dr. Leah OH (48:49):
Yes, yes, and I love that, john, and what I was
thinking when you were talkingabout that.
So I'm going to go back myfirst semester as a brand new
assistant professor years ago.
There's so many immediate needslike teaching, showing up,
making sure you actually havethat lesson plan and you're
doing the service, and showingup for meetings, but you get
(49:13):
tenured on your research right.
So it was almost Thanksgivingand I hadn't gotten any research
out and it just felt like thisis not the path I should be on.
This is a really dangerous path.
And I looked at my calendar andI had one hour from four to five
every day, free Monday throughFriday.
It was just really serendipity,as you mentioned before, and at
(49:38):
first my mind was like what areyou going to do in one hour a
day?
That's not enough to get thisresearch done.
But by the end of the semestersomething was already under
review and it goes back to your47.
All of a sudden you realize Ihad the muscle memory to sit and
write then.
But, yes, I completelyunderestimated what I could do
(50:01):
with just that short amount ofbut consistent discipline and
time.
John Gallagher (50:07):
There's that word again discipline.
It's not a four-letter word,it's a freeing word.
Absolutely, it's a freedom word.
Yes.
Dr. Leah OH (50:13):
So, yes, I want to underline and bold highlight all
of that that you just sharedwith us.
Thank you, John.
I've really enjoyed thisconversation.
I have learned so much, and Iknow that our listeners will as
well.
John Gallagher (50:30):
Thank you, Leah.
I appreciate what you're doing.
You're doing important stuff.
Keep going.
Dr. Leah OH (50:33):
Thank you All right , my friends.
That wraps up our conversationtoday.
Until next time, communicatewith intention and lead with
purpose.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith you again soon on the
Communicative Leader.
Welcome to another episode of the Communicative
Leader.
I'm your host, dr Leah oh, andtoday we have a truly inspiring
guest, john Gallagher.
He is the visionary leaderbehind growing champions
coaching and consulting companyWith over 25 years of experience
in leadership and leanmethodology.
John has made a significantimpact as a consultant and coach
(00:22):
to some of the world's leadingorganizations, think IBM,
mitsubishi Electric and HarvardUniversity.
John's powerful and uniquemethodology, known as the
greatest story ever told, hastransformed the lives of
countless C-suite executives andsenior leaders.
He helped guide them fromunderperformance to achieving
(00:42):
unparalleled impact.
His personal transformationjourney even featured in Men's
Health and underscores hiscommitment to leading an
uncommon life.
Apart from his consultingexpertise, john is also a
celebrated author, podcaster andblogger.
His podcast, the UncommonLeader, and his blog, the
Champion's Brew, are invaluableresources for those seeking to
(01:06):
grow as leaders.
In today's episode, we're goingto explore how John's approach
to people, development,productivity and profitability
helps individuals andorganizations achieve their
fullest potential.
If you're ready to unlock thesecrets to becoming an uncommon
leader, this episode is packedwith valuable insights and
(01:27):
strategies.
Let's have some fun.
Hello and welcome to theCommunicative Leader hosted by
me, dr Leah O'Millian Hodges.
My friends call me Dr O, I'm aprofessor of communication and a
leadership communication expert.
On the Communicative Leader,we're working to make your work
life what you want it to be.
(01:48):
John, we're so excited to haveyou on the Communicative Leader
today, and before we dive intoour conversation, I was hoping
you could share your journey.
So you are a mechanicalengineering graduate and now
you're a renowned executivecoach and a visionary leader.
John Gallagher (02:10):
Leah, thank you so much for having me on as a
guest.
I'm looking forward to ourconversation today.
And you think about thatjourney.
Even the journey to justsitting here right now it
probably would not be consideredone of the more traditional for
a mechanical engineer.
As I went through college andcame out, I went into a
manufacturing training programand really moved out of the
state of West Virginia for thefirst time in my life outside of
(02:33):
a month in Minnesota.
But I was really a deer in theheadlights in terms of just
moving to a small city inIndiana but ultimately learning
to understand manufacturingAlong the way.
I just happened to a small cityin Indiana but ultimately
learning to understandmanufacturing Along the way.
I just happened to meet up witha couple of great mentors.
That truly helped me understandwhat the definition of
(02:54):
leadership was.
I mean, I had resigned myselfto, I was done with school, I
wasn't going to do any morereading anymore, I didn't need
to do growth anymore and I wasin for a rude awakening.
I had set my vision on what Iwanted my salary to be by a
certain age.
I got there by age 26.
I'm like well, what am I goingto do now I thought I had
arrived already, but a long waysto go.
(03:14):
It's amazing what can happenwhen mentors come into your life
and introduce you.
I had a mentor early on in myjourney who gave me the book the
21 Irrefutable Laws ofLeadership by John C Maxwell, a
book that many have read,millions of people have read,
and I continue to suggest thatbook today, some almost 30 years
later.
And he walked through that bookwith me chapter by chapter and
(03:36):
I was hooked and I understandkind of what the role of
leadership was.
And while being a mechanicalengineer was very challenging,
it really was, from apersonality profile standpoint,
natural for me to be more on therelationship side than I was on
the science side of engineering.
Ultimately, that led me intomany different things my first
leadership opportunity at age 28at a manufacturing facility,
(04:01):
ultimately moving about fourtimes in the period of the next
15 years in industries such asmanufacturing but also in real
estate.
And then I ended up once I rodethat market down in 2009,
deciding to get back intomanufacturing because that was
where I was very comfortable inleadership and I kept getting
pushed over, kept getting nudgedover into this space of
(04:23):
consulting.
I had learned the leanmanufacturing philosophy.
I had pushed back against itfor a while and finally someone
said well, we need you to do itin healthcare, in hospitals and
clinics and I thought that's afascinating idea.
I could do that for a couple ofyears be a consultant and work
in hospitals and clinics, learnsomething new and then get back
into operations again real quickin the future.
(04:44):
Well, that was nearly 15 yearsago.
In consulting 2020, covid got achance to be escorted out of
the organization because ourmodel just slowed down.
We couldn't get into hospitalsand clinics anymore and decided
to start my own company, growingChampions.
And five years later, here weare today having a conversation
about communication on theCommunicative Leader Podcast.
(05:06):
It's pretty exciting.
Dr. Leah OH (05:07):
Yeah, yeah, and I really this is always one of my
favorite questions because Iwork with a lot of students,
right, my day job.
I'm a professor and they, youknow at in your early twenties,
you do think it's going to bevery linear and you're like this
is it?
And I laugh too, because we'rewrapping up the semester and my
undergrad's finishing up.
(05:28):
I'm like I'm not doing anotherassignment, I'm not going to buy
another textbook, like I amdone.
So it's fun to always hear thata lot of times we end up in
these unexpected places, butwhen these new doors open, we
recognize how we can build onthese previous skills that we've
had or interests.
John Gallagher (05:49):
Absolutely, and I think about that because the
difference between maybe at 26and today for me at 56, are
those experience and stories andthe books that I've read over
that 30-year journey, the peoplethat I've had a chance to meet.
I mean the job opportunitiesare interesting in very diverse
spaces, but it's really thoseexperiences, those books that
you read and those people thatyou meet are what form you into
(06:12):
the person that you are overtime.
And so it's funny that youmentioned that and I smile and I
know my mom always listens toany of the podcasts that I'm on.
It gives her something to do.
But she would always say Inever would have seen you as a
reader.
You didn't read when you werelittle and you didn't read
certainly after college andthings like that.
But I always loved to tease herbecause I've become a reader,
(06:35):
no doubt about it in my journey,very intentional reader in that
journey, and I think that'svery important.
Dr. Leah OH (06:39):
You're like it happened for me, mom, that's
great.
She's my bookshelf behind me.
She's like where did all thatstuff come from?
Well, john, I know that youtake a faith-based approach to
your work and your consultingand I was hoping you could talk
to us about how your faithinfluences the way you coach
others and you guide others tohelp them strive to achieve
(07:01):
their potential.
John Gallagher (07:03):
Love the question.
Back to this story situationagain.
It was an experience that I hadback in 2009.
I was at a retreat a leadershipretreat ultimately designing my
life plan and how I wanted myfuture to look in terms of work,
in terms of my family, in termsof finances an exercise that I
(07:24):
had done before and I was doinga refresh of that life plan, and
I had my Bible with me at thetime and, clearly, back when I
was 15 years ago, I was not aswell versed in the Bible as I
might be today and I stillwouldn't consider myself a
scholar by any stretch.
But I just decided, while I wasworking on that plan, to open
(07:44):
that Bible up and almostserendipitously whatever that is
I don't think that's the rightword I think there was an
intention.
I opened it up to John 15,which talked about the verses
that spoke about Jesus being thevine and we are the branches,
and that we are called to bearfruit in our lives and the lives
of others, and it really got methinking a bunch in terms of
(08:07):
how I was being as a leader,bearing fruit in my own life as
well as in the lives of others.
So I started to play with thatjust a little bit and ultimately
it led to kind of this treethat was in my mind for a few
years and understanding how tobear fruit.
Well, fast forward about 10years 2020,.
Again, I have the opportunityto be escorted out of the
(08:30):
organization, decide to start abusiness on my own, and I'm
working on the logo for GrowingChampions, the company that I
created, and I'm working with adesigner who brings me three
options and I just tell him Isaid I'd like a tree to be part
of that option.
With regards to the logo, hebrings me back to very
traditional trees that are there.
(08:52):
But the third one was one thatcaught my eye.
It was actually a gentlemancoming out of the water with his
arms raised high and leaveskind of around his arms.
That formed the silhouette, orultimately the picture, of what
appeared to be a tree, and whileit made me very uncomfortable
at the time in terms ofunderstanding faith inside of my
(09:13):
business, upon reflection ithelped me to realize that, no,
that was really going back those10 years.
What I was being called to dowas bear fruit, and I started to
study that a little bit more.
I mean those two words togetherin the Bible bear fruit appear
29 times and the word fruitappears over 200 times in the
Bible in terms of.
So you know, I just feltobviously there was a calling
(09:35):
for me to bear fruit and as Iwork with those one-on-one
leaders that I coach on aregular basis or those
organizations that I coach, Ibelieve that I've been called to
not only bear fruit in my lifebut to help them to bear fruit
in their work.
Now, whether that'sspecifically talking about
scripture or not, that's reallynot what it's all about.
(09:56):
But it is about leading abusiness that has more purpose
than just making a profit thatthey've got to be intentional at
creating, that they, I believe,would benefit from a servant
mindset of both developingthemselves and developing others
, implementing structures andprocesses that support that so
(10:16):
that they can have a strongimpact in the future.
So this journey for me on thefaith has been an evolution over
time over the period of 15years, and I have become more or
well-versed in the Bible overtime.
But I still have a long ways togo and I just you know, I know
that I think.
Last thing on that, I thinkthere's really three books that
(10:36):
almost all leadership books aremodeled after.
One of those is the SevenHabits of Highly Effective
People by Stephen Covey.
Think and Grow Rich is theSeven Habits of Highly Effective
People by Stephen Covey Thinkand Grow Rich.
And then the third one is theBible.
That it's kind of the roadmapfor leadership done correctly
inside of a business.
Dr. Leah OH (10:53):
Yeah, thank you, john.
When you were responding tothat question, I kept thinking
about the power of a generativeapproach, right and, like you
said, bearing fruit and I likethat idea of essentially just
thinking about, yes, how do weget a return on investment, but
how do we leave things betterthan when we found them?
John Gallagher (11:13):
Yes, amen, absolutely.
How do we as individuals?
I often hark back to a quotefrom Irma Bombeck, who talks
about at the end of her life.
She wanted to make sure thatshe had exhausted all of the
gifts that she had been givenand not leave anything inside
the tank, so to speak, and Ithink that's just a great vision
is that we've been given thesegifts.
We need to steward those giftsthat we've been given, whether
(11:36):
it's gifts of leadership,whether that's gifts financially
or, ultimately, gifts to beable to serve in the space that
we can leave the world a betterplace and not quit doing that
until we're done.
Dr. Leah OH (11:49):
Use it all up.
Yeah yeah, that is reallypowerful, and let's continue
with this thread because I knowyou have a methodology the
greatest story ever told and ithas a really profound impact on
executives.
So I was hoping you couldexplain these principles and
then how you can have used it tohelp leaders overcome things
(12:10):
that are holding them back orovercome mediocrity.
John Gallagher (12:15):
Sure and I love that again because I think
that's one of the barriers thatkeeps folks from growing faster
is mediocrity, is acceptingwhere you are not growing,
specifically with regards to thegreatest story ever told.
So let's keep the faithintegration as a part of that.
I do believe that the greateststory ever told was the life,
death and resurrection of JesusChrist.
Having said that, as leaders wetalked about that we have
(12:39):
opportunity to grow ourselves,to bear fruit and grow others
and grow organizations, and howdo we really measure that?
How do we measure that impact?
I talk about the greatest storyever told in the life of a
leader is when someone issitting down in a room and
they're asked a question bysomeone to write the name of
five individuals who, in theirlife, have made a positive
(13:02):
impact on their life.
Now, as we think about thatquestion again, another quote
that comes to mind is,ultimately, that people won't
remember what you said.
They won't remember what youdid.
They'll remember how they madeyou feel, and oftentimes we
can't remember what somebodysaid the last five years in a
speech.
Or, frankly, if you went to seea comedian, you can't remember
(13:23):
any of his jokes.
When you leave five minuteslater you often don't remember
what people did as well.
Many times people struggle toremember the most valuable
players of Super Bowls, eventhough it's one.
You know the last five SuperBowls.
But many people, almost allpeople, do not have trouble
recalling in their entire lifepeople who have made a positive
(13:45):
impact on their life and made adifference.
And the story of the greateststory ever told really is when
someone writes your name ontheir list and you may never
even know about it, but that'sthe greatest story ever told.
So I often finish up withexecutives asking them a
question who's going to writeyour name on their list?
And once you've identifiedthose individuals, and how are
(14:08):
you going to intentionally buildrelationships with those five
individuals to create that storyin the future?
Again, even though you maynever hear that or see that one
of the most humbling things youcan do as a leader is to write
your own eulogy.
That One of the most humblingthings you can do as a leader is
to write your own eulogy.
John Maxwell, one of myfavorite authors, a mentor of
(14:31):
mine that I would say because ofthe books that he's written,
would say your life is going tobe defined in one sentence at
your eulogy.
Why don't you go ahead andwrite that sentence today and so
that you can start tointentionally create that and
then know the people at yourfuneral are going to say these
certain things?
That's the greatest story evertold.
Dr. Leah OH (14:49):
Yeah, and I really love that idea.
I mean, if we're thinking aboutthat eulogy, like you said,
it's going to happen, so let'stake time to embrace it, but it
gives us a chance.
We're not going to staymediocre if we're living to an
aspiration that we want to seefor ourselves, that we want to
fulfill and that's so powerful.
(15:11):
Excellent, absolutely.
But I know in preparing forthis conversation, you've
mentioned that you've hadstruggles with confidence and
imposter syndrome in the pastand I'm wondering how you've
kind of transformed thosechallenges and how those
(15:35):
experiences shape your coachingtoday or the development of
these methodologies that youshare to empower others.
John Gallagher (15:44):
Love this question.
It's one that ultimately led meinto coaching, to lead me into
wanting to make a difference inthe lives of others.
So I wish this were my quote,but it's not Rory Vaden, the CEO
of Brand Builders Group and aHall of Fame speaker.
He said you are most powerfullypositioned to help the person
that you used to be, and I justfound that I was listening to
(16:04):
that on a podcast one day when Iwas driving in Chicago and
almost had a wreck when Ilistened to it, trying to rewind
and hear it again so that Icould remember it, and it led me
to being coached by hisorganization.
But when I think about that interms of confidence and imposter
syndrome not being worthy, Ihearken back another story.
(16:25):
I was having a performancereview done in my early 30s, a
little over 20 years ago, and Iwas sitting around this big
conference table and my boss wasacross me from the table and
what was really profound aboutit is that the room was all
glass and people were walkingaround outside.
They knew I was getting myperformance review.
I had been the acting presidentfor this company here and my
boss, who's still my mentor,friend and business partner
(16:47):
today in the different levels,but still we're still working
together was giving myperformance review to me as a
president, and he walked throughthat performance review on a
scale of one to five, absolutelygave me true feedback, kind
feedback, great feedback, and Igot a 2.3 out of 5.
(17:08):
Yeah, and it was the hardest,most loving performance review I
had ever had.
And I remember sitting thereafter the performance review was
over and I was almostspeechless and I actually again
mid-early 30s I had these twotears that started rolling down
my cheeks.
I couldn't even say anything, Ijust had these tears that were
there and all I just rememberthe last thing that I said was I
(17:31):
need help and I you know Iasked for help.
I had learned about a coachingcompany some 60 days earlier
that was available and I saidI'd like to work with this
company and that that bossinvested in me.
What does that mean in terms ofconfidence in how I coach today
?
And the imposter syndrome is Ihad a choice to make at that
point in time.
I could have chosen to takethat feedback very negatively or
(17:55):
I could have chosen to takethat feedback and to grow from
it and those two people that Iwanted to help in my coaching.
Was me sitting there receivingthat feedback and recognizing
that I wanted to grow.
Was me sitting there receivingthat feedback and recognizing
that I wanted to grow, but alsothe gentleman on the other side
of the table who had learned togive great feedback, to be
truthful and loving in thefeedback that he had given and
(18:15):
let me know what I needed togrow.
I wanted to be able to helpboth of those individuals on
this journey, so I spent a longtime kind of growing, being
coached myself, learning amethodology in terms of coaching
, brought that into myconsulting work and some of the
relationships that I wasbuilding with C-suite executives
and ultimately recognized that,through some intentional
(18:36):
relationship building, I wasstarting to make some impact in
their lives as a result of someof the stories that I had, and
so it gave me some confidence tothink about starting my own
business and coaching one day.
Still didn't make it easy forme to make that jump, but
ultimately it led to theorganization Growing Champions,
which was really about growingyourself and growing others as
(18:59):
leaders to be the champions theywere called to be.
Dr. Leah OH (19:01):
Yeah yeah, what a profound experience.
Champions, they were called tobe.
Yeah yeah, what a profoundexperience.
And I love that you can use thewords hopeful and loving in that
delivery of feedback, becausethat is like you said that's not
an easy position to be in, andI think it is much easier to
dismiss it, as they all don'tunderstand what I'm doing.
They're not at this, at mylevel, so this makes sense
(19:25):
instead of saying, wow, what isthe truth in here?
What can I take from this togrow from?
Yeah, that's incredible, allright, so let's shift gears a
little bit.
You talked about leanmethodology already.
You've mentioned that, and sowe know that you have this
(19:45):
extensive experience across acouple industries with lean
methodology.
And I'm wondering now in yourcoaching business, do you
incorporate these principles inhelping others?
And if so, you know how do yousee these methods as helping to
drive productivity and growth?
John Gallagher (20:06):
Such a good question and I love that because
you know, when I think aboutthat, here's where my engineer
comes back inside of me.
While I have some of theseleadership characteristics as
well, the engineer behind me islike I love structure, I love
framework, I love process.
And I had been going forward ona journey, trying to muscle my
way through that in mymanufacturing career, like, oh,
(20:28):
I can figure out how to solvethis problem myself, I don't
need any help.
And one day we had theseconsultants come in 1998, were
going to teach us how to do thisthing called lean.
I'm like I don't need this, Idon't need these people in my
life to show me how to do this.
I tell you a week-long rapidimprovement event, or Kaizen
event that we called it, kaizenbeing changed for the better.
(20:49):
I was hooked.
It was the framework thathooked me in terms of making
that change happen.
It was really a seven-stepprocess ultimately documenting
reality, identifying the wastein the processes and the waste
being those things that justkeep us from getting to where we
want to do Brainstorming,countermeasures or working
together as a team to make thosethings happen, actually making
(21:11):
changes in one week and not justtalking about it, but actually
making improvements, verifyingthe results did it really work
or not?
And then ultimately making thatthe new standard when it did
work.
And those steps through thatprocess have been the same
whether it's an organizationlooking to improve a financial
process like month-end close, orhow they hire individuals, or
(21:33):
how they make a certain product,or whether it's those same
steps as a leader of how yougrow as well Document reality,
where you are today as a leader,and understanding the waste or
what gets in.
What are the distractions thatkeep you from going forward.
It's like the methodology justbecame pure and then the step I
added really at the end was thecontinuous improvement side of
(21:54):
you got to do it again.
Once you get to a certain pointof improvement using this
framework, you're not done,you've just begun when you think
you're done.
And that's the fun part aboutLean.
What I really learned is it wascontinuous improvement.
We didn't have to get toperfect at the first time, but
we wanted to move toward perfectin that problem-solving
methodology.
So those tools I often refer tolean as the passionate pursuit
(22:17):
of the elimination of wastethose tools work in our business
processes.
Those tools work in our dailyleadership processes.
Those tools work in ourchurches and our homes.
I could go on for days about thedifferent tools within that
six-step or seven-step framework, when you add in the continuous
(22:38):
improvement side to really getfolks to think about it.
But if you can find a problemand it doesn't have to be lean,
but if you can find aproblem-solving methodology that
has a structure to it and youcan repeat that over and over
again, you're bound to besuccessful.
But the foundation of leanreally is, as they taught us,
continuous improvement.
You can always get better.
(22:59):
But the second one was respectfor people as well.
So there was a human componentto that that really drove me as
well to say these tools reallywork.
Yeah, I love it.
It probably drives my wifecrazy and others, frankly, that
I work with, because I walk intoa restaurant and I'm evaluating
flow.
(23:19):
It's the perspective that Ihave.
It's just how I'm wired.
Dr. Leah OH (23:22):
Yeah.
John Gallagher (23:22):
Back to that engineering thing and she's like
can we just enjoy the meal?
I'm like no, look how they'redelivering the food to us.
They could do it so much betterif they just called me oh,
that's funny.
Dr. Leah OH (23:33):
And what I want to raise up from that response is
because a lot of times werecognize people are shifting
careers more today than theyever have in the past and I
think a lot of people think, oh,I'm no longer in engineering,
that stays locked up in myengineering box.
But there are so many, like yousaid, these tools, these ways
(23:57):
of thinking, these skill setsthat we have, that can just make
us even better in these newcapacities.
And it's kind of figure out howdo I use that lens here?
How can I pull out this tooland and adapt it for what I'm
doing now?
John Gallagher (24:17):
Absolutely yeah.
I mean because, again, that'sthe thing we think we need to
keep relearning things over andover again, when really it's
just changing the perspective onthe structures and frameworks
we've already learned.
All the way back I had aphysician that I worked with.
He said you know all thesethings you're teaching me in
Lean?
I learned in kindergartenThings like a place for
(24:37):
everything and everything in itsplace.
I'm like Michael it sounds likea book.
You could write Everything Ilearned about Lean I learned in
kindergarten.
He said he was going to writethat one day.
I don't think he has yet, butit's true.
If we can keep things simple aswell, it can be very helpful.
Dr. Leah OH (24:51):
Yes, that makes sense.
I have a kindergartner now andI'm thinking like, yes, these
are things that he comes homeand tells us.
So we were just talking aboutchange and I am wondering you
know, what is some of your go toadvice that you offer leaders
and others who you work withthat are resistant to change or
really hesitant to try a newapproach to leadership or
(25:14):
development or business orwhatever it is?
How do you help them get overthat?
John Gallagher (25:20):
I love the question, too, about change.
I mean, look, change is good,as long as it doesn't happen to
me, right.
Dr. Leah OH (25:26):
Yeah.
John Gallagher (25:26):
I mean asking you to change I think, as human
beings we tend to be avert, wehave an aversion to change, but
we also have a perspective ofespecially inside of industry or
inside of personal growth thatif we stay where we are we're
not going to win.
So let's first recognize thisand what I talk about, folks,
(25:48):
that change is a choice thatindividuals have to make, that
they're ready to go.
I mean, this is kind of anotherjob maximalism.
Change is inevitable.
Growth is optional.
You are either going to changeor someone's going to change you
and you have to understand that.
But this comes back to that wordyou used before with regards to
mediocrity.
I often use the wordcomplacency.
(26:10):
People change when thedispleasure of remaining where
they are today is greater thanthe discomfort of the change
itself, because change is noteasy.
Change requires us to do thingsdifferently.
I often teach folks to foldtheir arms and recognize which
arm is over top, and then askthem to fold their arms the
(26:32):
other way and put that arm ontop.
And how uncomfortable that is.
Change is uncomfortable, butwe've got to get past the
displeasure of complacency, thedispleasure of mediocrity.
I know that we can get betterbefore we're truly going to make
a change.
So I think that's the big thing.
You've got to make the choicethat where you are today is not
(26:54):
where you want to be and youwant to move toward the person
or leader you were called to be.
You want to move toward theorganization that has the
potential to have the impactthat it wants to have.
So many different paths wecould go down on change, but I
mean, I often have the questionbefore I take on a client are
you ready to change?
(27:14):
Because if you want me to justtell you that everything you're
doing is okay, that's not goingto happen.
So oftentimes, when they invest, when they make an investment,
especially a financialinvestment in coaching or in
consulting, that helps put someskin in the game for them and
gives them another reason.
But really that change isinside of them that they have to
get ready for yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (27:35):
Yeah, and I really love that idea is that once that
displeasure of continuing to bewhere you are outweighs what
you know will be some discomfortwith the change you know, then
it's time to exercise thatoption and say, okay, let's see
what that looks like.
What's behind door number two?
John Gallagher (27:53):
Absolutely Exactly right.
I'm ready to change.
It could be a health scare Forme.
It was a health scare eightyears ago that finally got me.
The displeasure of remainingthe same, overweight and out of
balance, overcame the discomfortof going to the gym four times
a week, getting a trainer stopeating French fries those types
of things that were not helpingme get to where I was called to
(28:16):
be.
Dr. Leah OH (28:17):
Yeah, yeah.
And so, thinking about change,thinking about growth, I want to
add in another word, and thatis balance.
And I think this can be so hard.
So I'm wondering you know, howdo you guide leaders in
balancing their professional ortheir personal development along
with all of these professionalresponsibilities to kind of help
(28:39):
them achieve holistic success?
So you know, especially leaders, that to-do list it seems never
to get shorter, no matter what,but we still want to invest and
grow as a person.
So how do we do that?
John Gallagher (28:55):
Kim again.
Leah, I love this question.
The questions are really goodthat you're asking and they
challenge other leaders.
First thing I generally don'tuse is the word balance, because
it's very difficult to do right.
I often use the wordintegration life integration
rather than life balances.
How do I integrate all thethings that are important to me?
So the way that I do that withothers is inside of the greatest
(29:16):
story ever told methodology.
After they've really written theimpact that they want to have,
I have them do an assessment insix areas of their life, not
just their fruiture my wordfruit there's that word fruit
again their fruiture being theircareer, their vocation that, in
essence, brings them money.
It's not just that, but it'salso their family, their faith,
(29:37):
their finances, their fitness ortheir health and fun.
What are they doing to have fun?
And so those six Fs I have themreally write a picture of what
it looks like for them 15, 20years out with regards to a
vision in each one of thoseareas.
And I'm not talking about likewho I'm married to, but just
(29:58):
like what I see happening.
I'm walking on the beach, orI'm living, you know, somewhere
warm, or whatever that means.
Or you know I don't have debt.
I mean, those are.
Those are really good things tostart thinking about from a
vision standpoint.
And then I get them torecognize okay, if that's your
vision, now we have to move tothe how.
What are those things that youhave to do daily, weekly and
(30:20):
monthly to be successful in allof those spaces?
To get there and to your point,I think the balance.
While there may be seasons thatthey have to be a little bit
out of balance in terms of timeand where they're investing, you
got to recognize those are sixballs that you're juggling all
the time and some of those ballsare glass and some of them are
(30:41):
really rubber that can bounceback if you drop them.
The family ball, that family Fyou're not going to drop that
one because you want that to be.
That's a glass ball, for onething, and that can really lead
you to something.
So, understanding that theredoes have to be time invested
whether it's with your spouseand date night, or it's
(31:01):
vacations with the kids, or it'sreading time with your children
and getting them to grow, orhaving dinner three days a week
with your family that those aresome of the vision type things
that are there.
Once they recognize thosedisciplines.
Then I have them take a lookand say, okay, now let's put it
into your calendar.
Where does it show up in yourcalendar that you're dedicating
(31:22):
that time to them?
One of the tools that I useinside of my coaching is called
the ideal week template.
I have them draw up the sevenday ideal week, from when they
wake up to when they get tosleep each night, and what would
be the activities that fillthose days for them to be ideal.
Not that they would ever getthere, because, again, ideal may
(31:43):
be something we can't get to,but it allows them to compare
their calendar and compare theirperformance and reflect and say
what went well this week andwhat could have gone better,
because then I can have anopportunity to move toward what
that ideal week is, knowing Imay never get there.
The last thing on kind of thistip, on kind of balance or
(32:04):
integration, and I use that wordseason If you find yourself in
a season for three or fourmonths, that's not a season
anymore anymore.
Okay, where you're working longdays six, seven, eight, nine
o'clock at night, working thosedays because I'm in a season of
busyness and trying to explainthat to your family.
(32:25):
It's not a season when it goeson that long.
It's your lifestyle and we'regoing back to that decision to
make a change.
You got to learn to prioritizeproperly and find out if that's
the way you really want to live.
Dr. Leah OH (32:37):
Yeah, that's so helpful.
John, I think you know thisidea.
I think so many people will say, well, I want to be here one
day, but they don't know how tounpack it and to actually make
that.
And you helped us to thinkabout how you can make it a bit
of a roadmap, you know, to fromwhere you are to where you want
(32:57):
to be.
And I really appreciate thatidea that, if it's, you know
three, four months that it's nolonger a season and that is a,
you know, an indicator to you.
Look in the mirror, look atwhat's going on, look at these
choices and figure out if that'sa lifestyle that works for us
(33:18):
and our family and serveseveryone well, and if it's not,
then, like you said, it's timeto make a change.
It's really helpful, yeah,because I think so often we just
get stuck and we're like that'sseason and you're like, oh,
it's been five years, it's beenseven years.
John Gallagher (33:36):
Well, that's why I love the intentional
discipline of reflection,whether that's a weekly
reflection for 15 minutes on aFriday where you look back over
your week, or whether it's aquarterly reflection where you
look at that greatest story evertold and assess am I doing well
in some of these areas and Icould be doing better?
What do I need to keep doing,start doing and stop doing to
(33:57):
start moving closer to thatgreatest story ever told?
Intentionality is so important.
Yeah, that's so important.
I love that.
I mean good intention withoutdiscipline leads to excuses.
Dr. Leah OH (34:08):
Yeah, exactly.
John Gallagher (34:09):
Good discipline with good intention leads to
excellence, and I think thoseare two things that folks have
got to realize.
We've all got good intentions.
We want these things to workout.
We get afraid of this worddiscipline for some reason, but
without discipline, all we endup doing is saying I want to do
that someday.
Some is not a number and soonis not a time.
How do we get discipline todoing things?
Dr. Leah OH (34:31):
Yep, that reminds me years, years ago, when I was
doing my dissertation and I lovewriting, I love research, but
the dissertation it just feelsso unwieldy because it is such a
large piece of writing.
And I remember just kind ofGoogling it because I was
(34:52):
feeling stuck and I saw a graphand it showed that motivation
was up and down, up and down, upand down, but discipline was
very consistent and I was likethis is okay, I'm not going to
be motivated every day to workon this, and that's okay.
And it just gave me so muchfreedom.
(35:12):
I think freedom is the word butand peace?
John Gallagher (35:15):
Well, yeah, it is a word right, and so folks
see discipline as constricting,when it's actually freedom done
correctly.
Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (35:23):
And then and then, all of a sudden, it was
manageable.
It was like you know how do youeat the whale, one forkful at a
time.
It's like this is how this isgoing to get done.
So thank you for bringing thatup.
Yeah, that really was an eyeop,so let's Great.
John Gallagher (35:40):
I think about that.
I love going through that withfolks.
I mean there's so manydifferent things that come to my
mind.
You talked about the disciplineand the line right.
Motivation goes like this.
Motivation dissipatesabsolutely.
A picture I often draw ispushing a ball up a hill.
A team's pushing a rock up ahill.
They're solving a problem usinga methodology and they get
distracted and they'll walk awayfrom that ball.
(36:02):
Right.
And once they walk away fromthat ball, it rolls back down
the hill again.
Okay.
But if we have the disciplineto be the wedge that goes in
place underneath that rock, wecan then walk away for a little
bit, knowing we have thediscipline to follow the
processes, to be moreintentional with the work that
we do and keep that improvementin place.
Dr. Leah OH (36:21):
Absolutely.
I love that.
That illustration I Very visual.
That's really helpful.
So let's think about yourpodcast, john, because I know
that you have the UncommonLeader podcast and I'm just
wondering this is really aquestion for me and I think
others will be really interestedtoo but all of the amazing
guests that you've had, I'mwondering what are some of the
(36:44):
memorable insights that you'vetaken away from that work that
you've done there?
John Gallagher (36:50):
You know it's funny that inside of my podcast
I never would have imagined theimpact of the first question
that I use and that's asking anyof the guests to tell me a
story from their childhood thatstill impacts who they are as a
person or as a leader today, andthen weaving the conversation
oftentimes back to that storyand connecting that yeah, back
(37:13):
to that quote.
You're most powerfullypositioned to help the person
you used to be.
It identifies that and how thatgoes.
One of my favorite stories andI've had pastors and I've had
executives and I've had authorsbut a lot of different people on
the podcast One of my favoritestories is I had Auntie Ann
Beiler on the former CEO ofAuntie Ann's Pretzels and she
(37:35):
told the story of her childhoodand a tragedy that she went
through and as she startedthrough that story it was
actually an awareness for her.
As she started to talk about twobooks she had written, she's
like, oh my goodness, this kindof makes sense.
It ties back to that storyreally well, and so seeing some
(37:56):
of that awareness with theleaders that I interview on the
podcast is really cool.
I've done 150, some episodes,whatever it is.
I've done about three years nowand I can count on one hand the
stories that have brought me totears, and I tell those folks
that when you bring me to tears,not that I'm not empathetic or
(38:18):
because I often come to tears,but those are impactful stories
and, like whoa, I wasn't readyto hear that one.
Now, that doesn't mean thateverybody needs that tragedy to
be able to tell a story.
There are many things thathappen in our lives, though,
that shape us for our future,and I'm often amazed at how
(38:40):
those stories connect so well.
Dr. Leah OH (38:42):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I like pulling out thosethreads and again the emphasis,
on reflection, that if we're notdoing it we're really missing
out a lot of understanding of, Ithink, the whys why we're doing
things and why we're makingcertain choices.
John Gallagher (39:02):
Absolutely.
I mean that.
Why is so critical, gosh?
I mean back to anotherframework when you make the
choice to change.
Okay, how am I going to startto, in essence, illustrate or
ultimately share that why?
And I use the framework, I callit so what now?
What so that?
So, what is the opportunityyou're trying to create Now?
(39:24):
What is?
What must you do?
You must take some action andthe so that is what's the big
reason why that's going to occur, because that's what's going to
get you up out of bed every day, that's what's going to help
you avoid hitting the snoozewhen it goes off.
That's going to get you throughthose tough times Because, as
we said, motivation dissipates.
And I've used verses in theBible to help create that
(39:46):
framework.
Paul in the New Testament was abeast in how he used that so
that, telling us what we neededto do.
But the ultimate verse is oneof the most common verses of the
Bible John 3, 16, where God soloved the world that he gave his
one and only son.
There's the so what?
He loved the world so much sothat he gave his one and only
(40:08):
son.
I'm sorry now, what was?
He gave his one and only son,but the so that was that if we
believed, ultimately we wouldhave eternal life.
I mean that framework works indefining problems.
That keeps us going and, asChristians, regardless of where
your faith is, setting up aframework like that is very
important, but that's the sothat that keeps us going forward
(40:30):
as Christians.
Dr. Leah OH (40:31):
Yeah, yeah, what a powerful, powerful framework,
and I'm always struck thatoftentimes it's the simplest
frameworks, the simplest ideasthat are the ones that are going
to best position to catapultyou to be successful.
Right, because you can rememberit.
It is accessible, it makessense.
(40:52):
You know anyone can plug it in,and just about any aspect of
their life.
So thank you for sharing that.
John Gallagher (40:59):
You're welcome.
Dr. Leah OH (41:00):
So we've talked about, you know, all of these
frameworks, these principles,your Uncommon Leader podcast,
but I'm wondering if there areother resources or practices you
recommend for aspiring leaderswho are, you know, really
focused on continuing to growand evolve.
John Gallagher (41:19):
Sure.
Well, I mean, as I kind of saidor alluded to a little bit
earlier, I do believe thatreaders are leaders.
So other resources, otherdisciplines that come in.
I books are somewhere in theneighborhood of 230 to 240 pages
.
If you just read 10 pages a day, okay, you're going to read
(41:50):
somewhere in the neighborhood ofone to two books a month.
Times 12 months, that's 24books in a year.
So 10 pages a day is going toleave you at 24 books a year.
We often say we don't have thetime to read books.
Well, when we have a horizonout there that says I want to
read 24 books, it feels so big,that horizon is so far out.
Sometimes it overwhelms us.
If I bring that horizon in andsay I just want you to read 10
(42:12):
pages a day, that seems moredoable.
That seems like something I canput in as a discipline every
morning in my habit to make thathappen.
Reading is a discipline everymorning in my habit to make that
happen.
So reading is a discipline.
And then ultimately, throughreading, if you don't have the
money to invest in terms of acoach or a mentor, those books
can be mentors for you.
John C Maxwell became a mentorfor me and I didn't meet him for
(42:34):
another 10 years after I readthe first book.
There's a picture of he and Ithe first time I met him almost
10 years after I read his book,but there's the list of all the
books that I've read from him aswell.
He's become a mentor that I'vedone that over time.
Other resources are podcasts apodcast like this to hear from
other leaders to improvecommunication, or the Uncommon
(42:55):
Leader Podcast.
Thank you for calling that outas well, but I have three or
four that I follow on a regularbasis.
It's hard to follow 20 or 30 ofthem.
That can become overwhelming aswell, but it's a choice.
If you're at the gym and youoften listen to music when
you're working out, switch thatover.
Stack that habit and put thatpodcast on while you're at the
gym.
Walking on the treadmill.
Learn while you're running orwalking on the treadmill to
(43:18):
become better and stack thoseimportant habits and then find
someone to emulate in yourleadership.
Okay, I'm not saying to copyeverything that they do or to be
like them, but to emulate someof the characteristics of those
individuals that you find to bevery powerful and impactful and
start to learn from them.
Dr. Leah OH (43:36):
Yeah, oh, that's so helpful, john.
I really love all of those andI love that idea of stacking
different habits and reallyfiguring out you know you might
be in a really, really busyseason.
I've got young kids, so they'reoften they're not enough
minutes in a day right now, butduring a commute or if I'm
folding laundry, putting on apodcast, something where I'm
(44:00):
getting these other things done.
But it's just a little bit forme as well, and then it also
counts as self-care, right.
John Gallagher (44:07):
So Absolutely counts as self-care, which is
very important as well, no doubtabout it.
Dr. Leah OH (44:12):
So, john, I have two final questions for you, and
they are integrated.
This is the way that we end allepisodes of the communicative
leader, episodes of thecommunicative leader.
So the first one is asking for,you know, advice or a pragmatic
tip or a challenge for ourtitled leaders.
And then the second part of thequestion is again what is the
(44:33):
tip, advice or challenge foremployees across all ranks, all
industries, all levels?
John Gallagher (44:40):
Love this.
There's so many different waysthat you go more frameworks
right in terms of what happened.
Back to the engineer in meloves to talk about how these
processes work.
Look, when I think about itfrom a titled leader standpoint
and executives, oftentimes weget closed up in our office
because we're important andfocused on ourself.
You touched on this withregards to even self-care a
little bit, but I encouragetitled leaders to become more
(45:03):
intentional.
Back to that greatest storyever told and the five people
are going to write your name ontheir list.
While that may not be all of thepeople that work for you or on
your team, it's very importantto intentionally build
relationships and find time tocommunicate with them.
A framework that I love to talkabout.
I call it 3-2-1.
It's very easy Three coffees,two lunches and a dinner each
(45:28):
month with those individuals.
If you're leading a virtualteam, you can do a virtual
coffee or a virtual lunch.
Call that happens, but identifythree people that you want to
have coffee with, two peoplethat you want to have lunch with
to go a little bit deeper, andone person on your team that you
really want to get to know orgive them some feedback and have
dinner with, and then get thosethings on your calendar every
(45:50):
month and then, frankly, measureyourself to it.
Create a goal.
If that's three, two, one,those six touches every month
and see what's getting in yourway.
If you're not getting to thosesix touches, then I would
encourage you to take a look atyour calendar, because that
intentional communication, thatintentional relationship
building, is so important.
By the way, that works in salesas well Three, two, one, three
(46:11):
coffees, two lunches and adinner.
You're talking about leadgeneration or clients that I
need to work to connect with tomake sure everything's going
okay.
Find a use of that framework tohelp you intentionally build
communication and buildrelationships with those
individuals, with regards to allemployees.
(46:35):
Look, I come back to that worddiscipline.
Distractions get in our way,there's no doubt about it, and
excellence only happens onpurpose, okay, so we've got to
be more intentional at removingthose distractions from our life
.
Look, this little thing righthere is supposed to make us more
productive than we've ever been, and it is potentially one of
the biggest distractions that weface on a daily basis Text
(46:57):
messages ringing through everyday, checking our email, social
media death scrolling, if youwant to call it.
That is very important, but forall employees, even the
non-title leaders, one of thetools that I talk about and I'd
be willing to share it with yourlisteners as well, if they want
to check that out on my websiteis the 47 most productive
(47:17):
minutes in a leader's day, andthat's setting a timer for 47
minutes and turning off alldistractions.
Put your phone in airplane mode, turn your email off and work
on a project and focus on it for47 minutes.
Set a timer and focus on it for47 minutes.
Why 47 minutes?
I don't know.
There's no science behind it.
(47:38):
For me, I went through a healthprogram in 2017 when I lost 80
pounds, called the 47 Days ofTransformation.
So I just think weunderestimate what we can do in
47 seconds and 47 minutes.
But what that also allows us todo is, at the end of that 47
minutes, come back into the realworld again.
Use the last 13 minutes of thathour to check in on what you
(47:59):
missed.
Okay, to actually take a breakbefore you go to your next
meeting that are back-to-backand get yourself a glass of
water.
Heaven forbid to go to therestroom before you go to your
next meeting, but that those 47minutes, if someone can't get 47
minutes in their day withoutany distractions because they
have too much stuff going on,then I think we're missing the
(48:23):
purpose as leaders.
That self-care word you talkedabout we've got to find the time
to take care Because maybethat's in the 47 minutes.
You're just reading a bookundistracted for 47 minutes.
You're going to get to the endof the 47 minutes, that timer is
going to go off and you'regoing to keep going because it
felt so good and it went by sofast, important to stop so you
can take care of those otherthings.
(48:44):
But I think that's a powerfultool that all of us can use in
our own personal development.
Dr. Leah OH (48:49):
Yes, yes, and I love that, john, and what I was
thinking when you were talkingabout that.
So I'm going to go back myfirst semester as a brand new
assistant professor years ago.
There's so many immediate needslike teaching, showing up,
making sure you actually havethat lesson plan and you're
doing the service, and showingup for meetings, but you get
(49:13):
tenured on your research right.
So it was almost Thanksgivingand I hadn't gotten any research
out and it just felt like thisis not the path I should be on.
This is a really dangerous path.
And I looked at my calendar andI had one hour from four to five
every day, free Monday throughFriday.
It was just really serendipity,as you mentioned before, and at
(49:38):
first my mind was like what areyou going to do in one hour a
day?
That's not enough to get thisresearch done.
But by the end of the semestersomething was already under
review and it goes back to your47.
All of a sudden you realize Ihad the muscle memory to sit and
write then.
But, yes, I completelyunderestimated what I could do
(50:01):
with just that short amount ofbut consistent discipline and
time.
John Gallagher (50:07):
There's that word again discipline.
It's not a four-letter word,it's a freeing word.
Absolutely, it's a freedom word.
Yes.
Dr. Leah OH (50:13):
So, yes, I want to underline and bold highlight all
of that that you just sharedwith us.
Thank you, John.
I've really enjoyed thisconversation.
I have learned so much, and Iknow that our listeners will as
well.
John Gallagher (50:30):
Thank you, Leah.
I appreciate what you're doing.
You're doing important stuff.
Keep going.
Dr. Leah OH (50:33):
Thank you All right , my friends.
That wraps up our conversationtoday.
Until next time, communicatewith intention and lead with
purpose.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith you again soon on the
Communicative Leader.
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