E61 Stress to Success: Practical Nutrition and Stress Management advice for Busy Professionals

Episode Transcript
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Chris Hudson (00:07):
Hey folks, buckle up.
We're about to miss the Voice onTV, but that doesn't matter so
much because we're about toembark on a journey that's going
to take us from the depths ofyour gut to the heights of
corporate success.
Or maybe it's not a sci fiadventure.
It's company road podcast.
And today we're going to bediving into the fascinating
world where nutrition in itselfis going to be discussed, but
also in terms of how it meetsbusiness performance and the

(00:27):
things that we can do in thatarea.
So who's going to guide us?
None other than Cailie.
Cailie, massive warm welcome tothe show.

Cailie Ford (00:33):
Thank you so much for having me, Chris.

Thanks.
And yeah, I mean, imagine likefor the listeners out there,
imagine a person who can decodesome of these mysteries of the
digestive system.
In the morning, you're thinkingabout company's workforce by
lunch, and you're still doingthings in the evening with your
three kids by dinnertime.
So you're kind of doingeverything yourself, which is
amazing.
And you're a rare breed.
So a clinical nutritionist.
change management, uh, which wasyour prior occupation and a

(00:58):
flair for kind of motivatingpeople to think more about
probably what they eat and howthey live.
And you're not just talking thetalk, you're walking the walk.
So you're running a thrivingprivate practice and you're
doing global business workshopsand lots, lots of stuff going on
in the house.
No doubt.
We'll get into some of theinteresting stuff.
We'll talk about the food on theplate, the secret ingredients,
some of the things, but, butother things probably mixed in

(01:19):
with business as well.
And yeah, it's going to be aninteresting chat.
So I want to dig into some ofthe juicy stuff and maybe we
just start with an openingquestion, Cailie, which was
around your transition becauseonce upon a time you were in
change management, now you'reobviously running your own
business in the world ofnutrition, but tell us about
those steps and what led you toleave the wonderful world of
change management.

Well, I'll start off by saying that the two
careers, although they do seemat odds, are actually not that
different.
And I came to learn this duringmy time back at uni to study
nutrition and dietetics.
So working in corporate changemanagement for over, 10 years,
so 15 years in corporate intotal.
And my change career was heavilyfocused on behavioral change and

(02:01):
capability uplift at anorganizational level.
And what I really feltpassionate about is helping
people shift through the stagesof change and helping them
remove barriers to make surethat the changes were
sustainable.
And then meanwhile, on apersonal note, was always a
foodie and was known As a bit ofa health nut around the office,

(02:23):
always bringing healthy bakedgoods for everyone.
And knowing that I want to sortof take this a bit further and
then just on a whim decided thatI would go back to uni and do
this degree.
And so straddled full timecorporate career while studying
by night and by day and thenstarted having babies along the

(02:44):
way and it all got a little bitjumbled for a little while but
now happily working full time innutrition running my own
business and doing all thejuggle that comes with that.

Yeah wow amazing journey and yeah congrats for
doing that transition it's areally hard one it's always more
tempting to kind of stick withwhat you know sometimes you can
underestimate the effort thatyou have to put in to do that so
massive congrats.
Just reflecting as you weretalking, I think, you know, some
of the things that we thinkabout in nutrition, the role
that it plays in our lives, butI suppose, tell us maybe about

(03:16):
some of the work that you do andwho you're helping at the
minute.

I do a real mix, so two key pillars of my business,
I work with corporate, so that'swhere my change management
skills are really helpful interms of background and
facilitation and trainingbecause I deliver well being
workshops and programs intocorporates on a range of health

(03:39):
topics, so everything fromsleep, gut health, mental
health, women's hormone health.
How to increase personal andbusiness performance through
nutrition and building yourresilience to stress through
nutrition and drawing on mylived experience in corporate
and working in the high pressureworld of projects.

(04:01):
It's something that I'm sofamiliar with the need to
nourish yourself well in orderto be able to perform at your
best.
So that's kind of one pillar ofmy business.
And then the other is my privatepractice where I work with
people one on one so Ispecialize in gut health and
hormones, sustainable fat loss,and also women's health across

(04:23):
the lifespan.
And the two worlds, thecorporate stuff and the private
practice cross over a lotbecause the typical profile of
my private practice clients arebusy professionals, white collar
people who are lost their way,maybe along the way that they're
highly educated, but they'retime poor, busy, and just are

(04:46):
looking for Quick, efficientways to build health back into
their already busy lifestyleswithout overwhelming.
And again, that's where I reallyshine because I'm a busy parent
and running my own business.
And so I share all of these, notonly my clinical experience
tips, but my lived experience assomeone who does the juggle

(05:07):
every day.

It's a lot to juggle.
So yeah, I don't know how you doit, but maybe we'll get into
that.
So I want to start with maybe aquestion around the world of
work, the corporate side ofthings, and when you walk in, or
maybe when you were in that rolein change management, what were
some of the things that you wereseeing that were kind of
systemic or, you know, what wereyou noticing about kind of the
bad habits that were around withregards to nutrition?

I think first and foremost, the glorifying of busy
being busy, but I had a dollarfor every time in the lift when
I was working corporate andyou'd see people going, How are
you?
And that first answer would bebusy.
Flat out.
Crazy busy.
And it was this kind of acceptedmodel where health and being

(05:51):
busy were mutually exclusiveconcepts and very few people
were getting that balance right.
And I've seen people collapse onthe job, have mini heart attacks
because they were working sohard.
You know, people have gotchronic sleep issues, stress
through the roof, blood pressureissues.

(06:11):
And this was me observing all ofthis stuff before I even became
a clinical nutritionist.
And reflecting on it now, Ithink.
Gosh, that is just so, sodangerous to be living that way
because ultimately your healthis the only thing that's keeping
you there doing your job.
And then years later, workingwith clients, chief executives,

(06:36):
and people with disabilities.
Busy jobs and doing the juggleand one client comes to mind
where through talking to her Icould Really see that she was
coasting very close to completeburnout.
She was solo mom very busy jobAnd I said to her What's it

(06:56):
going to take?
I really think that you need totake a break of some sort,
whether it's a long weekend or aweek, just to kind of reset and
take a step back.
And she said to me, I know whatyou're saying, and I know what I
need to do because she haddeveloped auto immunity
conditions because of stress.
She had chronic illness issuesthat were widespread, lots of

(07:20):
symptomatic things that were,you Really impeding on her
quality of life, but in the samebreath, she said to me, I just
don't have time to stop rightnow.
I need to get to the end of thisproject in a few months, and
then I'll think about stopping.
And it's always sat with mebecause I think that your body

(07:41):
might not give you that choice.
You keep running at such a paceand we keep expecting our body
to just sustain us, which itdoes to a point, but at some
point it might decide thatthat's enough and it forces you
to stop.
And I speak from personalexperience with this, because I
have been through burnout.

Yeah, it's hard to say to somebody who hasn't maybe
experienced it yet, that thatcould happen in a way that would
make them sit up and payattention in that moment.
Because you're right, there'salways something in the way.
You're going to have to deliverthat project, you're going to
have to run like a lunatic foranother three weeks, four weeks,
until that's done.
You'll worry about your health.
I'm just thinking, I mean, theworld of work doesn't seem to be
that well designed for us.

(08:22):
If that's what's happening.

I think it's about creating boundaries and
disruptors so that you'remanaging your levels of stress.
Because I can't take away thestresses that are thrown at my
clients, what I can do is givethem practical tools that they
can use that just help them bemore resilient to that stress so

(08:47):
that you are able to handle it abit more.

Ah, yeah, okay.
So you can buy yourself sometime maybe in that

moment.
You can.
You absolutely, absolutely can.

So what are some secrets here?
What can we go into?

So the secret, the biggest one, and this is a
pitfall for so many people, andit was such a simple thing,
eating breakfast.
It sounds simple and people canthink, Oh, sure.
We know this, but we've all gotthis cortisol awakening
response, which is a naturalthing in the morning that helps

(09:20):
us switch out of sleep mode intoawake mode.
Great.
And the relationship betweencortisol and food is that food
helps to blunt that cortisolresponse.
So it just alleviates the kindof sharpness of it.
But if you take food out of thatequation and add in, let's say,

(09:40):
coffee, which so many clientssay to me when I ask, what is
your breakfast?
And they say, coffee.
That's not a meal.
So then you've got the caffeine,which is helping spike cortisol.
And if you're not then eatingfor hours later.
You've just got cortisol on therise, and so you Scientifically,
you are not as resilient tostress as if you were to

(10:03):
introduce food.
And I see it time and timeagain, like magic with my one on
one clients who come to me andthey're stressed out of their
mind, they're tired but wired ofan evening yelling at people
around them, the hair trigger ofemotion.
And we introduce a protein andfiber rich breakfast.
So not just any breakfast,cereal.

(10:26):
Great source of carbohydrates,but that's not going to cut it
in terms of sustained energy.
So a really balanced, nutritiousbreakfast.
And they come back to me acouple of weeks later and go, I
can't believe this.
I feel so much calmer.
I switch my coffee to later inthe morning.
I'm not suffering with the 3 p.
m.
slump as much.

(10:47):
It's incredible.
So that would be the firstthing.
The simplest thing that you cando for yourself, for stress
management, for making yourselfmore resilient long term is
introducing a balancedbreakfast.

Yeah, amazing.
So the one that has all theingredients in the ideal
breakfast.
How are you describing that?

Yeah, so it's a mix and part of what I do.
I work with people tounderstand.
What is your life look like?
What is the day in the life?
Are you running around?
Are you out the door within 30minutes of waking up?
Are you running around up tokids so that then I can build in
the breakfast that suits thatperson?
It could be as simple as I'm ahuge fan of a Whole Foods

(11:28):
smoothie that has got a proteinelement in there.
Protein powder is a reallyefficient, effective way to get
a full serve of protein in, butthen we're adding in Whole
Foods.
Like fruit and some nice veggiesthat go well in smoothies are
things like cucumbers, zucchini,um, cauliflower, classic, and

(11:49):
just really neutral flavoringveggies so that you can get a
quick win with getting somefiber and some veggies in
because no one is eatingveggies, but then also some
little nutrient powerhouses.
Like seeds, flax seeds, sheaseeds, hemp seeds, all really
rich in nutrients that ourhormones need to regulate for
our immune system to be well andto feed our good gut bugs.

(12:13):
Smoothie, what could be quicker?
Blitzing that up, wonderful.
I'm also a big fan of, uh, batchmaking things.
So like baked oats, for example,would be lovely because again,
you can grate in things likecarrots, zucchini, but also add
in some lovely fruits andberries, get a whole bunch of
eggs in there, milk, and thenbake it, batch cook it and

(12:34):
freeze it in portion sizes touse later on.
That would be a great start.
Too many people, I know womenare especially guilty of this.
of having one egg on toast forbreakfast.
So, if we think about a rule ofthumb, because everyone hears
that eggs are a great source ofprotein, which they are, and
they're also rich in othernutrients, but a good rule of

(12:58):
thumb for main meals is that wewant to aim for around 25 to 30
grams of protein at each meal.
One egg has 6 grams of protein.
So it's just not enough.
And one piece of toast mighthave four grams of protein.
So if you think about playing anumbers game with it, all of a
sudden you're trying to playcatch up for the rest of the

(13:19):
day.
So we're thinking about morelike three eggs on toast on like
a high protein toast forbreakfast, that would be a
really lovely start.
And if you can grate in.
Some veggies into a scrambledegg.
That would be delightful too.
Another concept that's a bitdivisive is dinner for
breakfast.

(13:39):
Not everyone's on board withthis, but I always suggest it
because having animal meat or itcould be tofu or something like
that, if you're a vegetarian orvegan.
But thinking about, there's noreason that you couldn't have a
steak or a chicken breast orsomething for breakfast.
There's no rules around that.
We've just created these rulesthat you've got to have like

(14:00):
cereal or muesli for breakfast.
But that's a really quick andeasy way to get a great hit of
protein and then combining itwith some veggies or fruit and
then you're getting the fiberelement as well.

Very good.
All right.
Does that mean you get breakfastfor dinner or just that you get
another dinner later?
Sure, it absolutely

does.
How delightful.
You could have a big yoga bowland fruit for, um, for dinner.

I mean, it feels like it's very easy in a way.
A lot of people have been eithergoing without breakfast or like
you say, switching in coffeesand maybe it's two coffees or
three coffees.
And that's the decision aroundthe variety that have your
breakfast.
There's talk about other thingslike intermittent fasting.
Some of these things.
Themes are coming up.
How late in the day can youbasically leave it before you
start eating?
I mean, all of this is kind offeels like it's not aligning

(14:44):
with what you're saying.

No secret about that.
And I always have in any of thecorporate workshops that I run,
there's always someone in theaudience who does intermittent
fasting and says it works forthem.
And if you feel okay, fine, whoam I to tell you otherwise,
other than being someone wholeans heavily on the science,

(15:07):
somewhat the science.
It tells us that particularlyfor women, premenopausal women,
is that our hormones don't do sowell on it.
So a lot of people use it as aweight management strategy
because essentially what it'sdoing is restricting your
calorie intake.
There's nothing magical aboutit.
About intermittent fasting forweight management.

(15:28):
It's just another vehicle on thesame highway, aiming to get you
to the same destination, whichis generally weight loss, but
it's not the only vehicle.
And what we know is that yes, itmight equal weight loss, but
it's not helpful for yourhormones.
And again, I have so manyclients that come to me and are
feeling stressed or feelinganxious.

(15:51):
They're only having the coffeein the morning because they're
fasting until midday and it'snot until I start.
sharing what the evidence saysand they think, ah, okay, I
didn't realize I could befeeling better than this.
I just thought that stressed wasmy modus operandi.
And once we introduce food inthe morning, then it's a
complete transformation.

(16:12):
So I'm a firm believer inflooding your body with
nutrients in the morning, notstarving it.
And then feeding your body atregular predictable intervals
throughout the day.
Because if we think about.
What are our hormones made of,our neurotransmitters, it's all
of the, all those bodilyfunctions require nutrients and

(16:34):
substrates, and where do we getthose from?
From the foods that we eat, andso why would we starve ourselves
on these really beautifulnutrients that we need so much?
For stress management andhormone regulation for clarity
of mind, creativity, quality ofsleep, the list is endless.

So that was intermittent fasting.
What else can we myth bust?
What about water?
How's that featuring?

And that's another thing, not enough people, uh,
drinking water.
So water is, it's a bit likewalking.
It's so underrated in terms of.
Where it fits into the healthpuzzle because we need water to
transport nutrients around thebody.
We need it to lubricate ourjoints.
We need it for to help ourkidneys and our liver detoxify

(17:20):
things from our body.
And so.
If you're drinking one liter ofwater a day, it's simply not
enough, and even milddehydration has been shown to
impair cognitive function,concentration, mood, it affects
our hunger levels negatively, sowe really want to be aiming for

(17:43):
a I would minimum 1.
5 liters, but more healthilyaround that two liter mark would
be a great start more.
Obviously if you're exercisingor in hot weather also, because
a lot of my clients have fatloss as one of their goals, we
need water.
to support the biochemicalreaction of fat breakdown.

(18:05):
So if that's not enough of amotivator for people that it can
actually help them lose weight,increasing hydration does that.

I think that's really important to point out.
It seems obvious again, but alot of water coolers and jars,
jugs of water in meetings andthe drink bottles are coming in
and out.
And obviously Frank Green havehad something to say about
people carry it around now too.
So there's a more fashionableway to carry it, right.
Which is good.
And.
I

think finding different strategies, because a
lot of people say, Oh, just, Idon't get excited about water.
I get that.
So how can you make it moreappealing?
So whether it's buying a sodastream for home, if you added a
dash of fruit juice to it orsomething to make it more
palatable, so be it.
The end result is that you'redrinking a more water.

(18:51):
Herbal teas are great becausethey contribute to hydration.
People often don't think aboutthat.
But you can enjoy herbal teascold or warm.
It's great in colder climatesbecause I know a lot of people
don't like to drink as much coldwater when it's cold weather.
So herbal teas, all the optionsnow that are sugar free options

(19:11):
like kombucha and the sodaleaves and things like that,
just great to intersperse inbetween your actual tap or
filtered water, anything toincrease the hydration.

And weight loss.
I mean, we talked a bit aboutwork.
It's hard to mix in, I suppose,the needs of the daily grind
with what people are actuallyaiming for.
For and what their goals are interms of could be better sleep,
could be weight loss, could bethis, could be that.
But how are you setting peopleup in a way that can make all of
that work together, do youthink?
Because weight loss, like inparticularly if you're in an
office job or if you're at adesk, you know, it can be a very

(19:45):
hard thing to manage.

Yeah, it absolutely can.
So there's kind of two sides tothat coin.
If it's purely for weight loss,the good news, you don't
actually need to move your bodycontrary to practice.
popular belief, in order to loseweight, all you need to do is
put yourself into a caloriedeficit so that you're consuming
less calories than what yourbody requires each day.

(20:10):
But the benefits of exercise arefar and wide.
It's going to improve your mood.
It's going to increase yourmuscle mass, which is so
important as we age in terms ofbeing an anti aging mechanism.
It's just going to make you feelbetter because we release those
endorphins and then that kind ofhealthy habit, breathe more

(20:32):
healthy habits, and then youstay on track with healthier
choices for yourself.
So, because a lot of my clientshave hybrid roles now where
they're in the office some daysor at home others key focal
point of any work that I do withsomeone is focusing on their
sleep because if you're notsleeping well, that is kind of

(20:54):
the cornerstone to the rest ofyour well being.
How could you possibly wake up?
Motivated and ready to exerciseor ready to do positive things
for your health.
If you're going to bed atmidnight, 1am, waking up at 3am
because you're stressed, all ofthose things just have a
negative knock on effect.
So finding strategies to improvepeople's chances of quality and

(21:19):
quantity of sleep.
And then working with people onan individual basis to find,
okay, what opportunities arethere in your day?
To increase incidental exercise,so it could be, you know, if
you're automatically taking thelift to go one, two, three
flights, instead, take thestairs because it would most

(21:39):
likely be quicker anyway, andI've done this research in an
organization where I was inchange management, the ability
to get from A to B and using thestairs is a lot faster than
waiting for the lift.
Also, finding opportunities tomove your body with colleagues.
So, walk and talk meetings,going out for lunch, getting out
in the sunshine.

(22:00):
Just those little opportunities.
It's just occurred to me, one ofthe conversations with a client
about a year ago when we werelooking at For helping her build
in healthy habits and she was,she's living in Sydney and she
would take the train from herhome, which was nearish to the
city into her workplace.

(22:22):
And I did a quick look on GoogleMaps and realized that if she
walked instead of catching thetrain, it would only increase
her travel time by sevenminutes.
And so that was a no brainer.
And she'd never thought aboutit.
Thought about it before it wasjust a given that she would jump
on the train.
And so seven minutes was afeasible and normal choice to

(22:45):
make so that she was lookingafter her health and also
creating that disruptor.
So that was a lovely win.
Other things like getting offthe bus stop earlier or getting
off the train or stop earlier,the incidental exercise should
not.
Be underestimated throughout theworking day, even if you are
nine to five in an office, thereare opportunities.

(23:07):
It's just about looking for themand not underestimating them
because some movement willalways be better than no
movement.

Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
I always like when I started outin work, there were certain
people that would get up offtheir seat in the middle of a
meeting or a workshop and justkind of dance around the room a
little bit.
And I thought, no, do you haveto be a certain level of
seniority to do that?
I don't know, but it was kindof, I started doing it when I
was older in my later career.

(23:34):
But to begin with, I wasterrified of just standing up
and walking around, but do youreckon that's okay now?

Oh, look, it's contagious.
Sure.
Who doesn't love to inject a bitof that positivity into the
work?
Like, it's definitely, I mean,safer to do it at home.

That's the other thing, because a home habit
around work has now beenestablished, obviously, since
people have been working at homea little bit more.
So it's good and bad.
And obviously if, if exerciseand movement and nutrition isn't
baked into your home life, justthe same as it.
maybe isn't baked into your CBDkind of office life, then some
of these habits, kind of, theycreep in and fridge, which is

(24:12):
full of the goodies that you'dnormally have at the weekend is
kind of there ready for you tokind of pick from on a Monday
lunchtime.
So what's the easiest way tokind of start putting good
habits into practice?
Do you think?

I think it's about first understanding and
acknowledging the habit loops ofwhat actually happens.
With the brain in order for ahabit to form.
So without a trigger, there's noreminder for the habit to occur.
So in our business life, youwouldn't expect to roll into a

(24:43):
Monday without any of your workmeetings in your calendar and
just hope for the best thatyou're going to remember where
you're supposed to be at acertain time.
You just wouldn't do that.
You book them in because they'rea priority.
They're important.
So that's the starting point.
If you want to implement a newhealthy habit.
I encourage people to treat itlike you would an important

(25:03):
business meeting with your boss.
Put it in your calendar, bespecific about what it is so
that you've got that triggerthere.
And it could be as simple asgreat apps.
These days, there's the habitapp clue is in the name.
And so you input any of thehabits that you want to
undertake.
And then it pings you atdifferent points in the day to

(25:24):
drink more water or eat fruit orwhatever it may be.
So the trigger is the mostimportant thing.
It's similar to, if you want togo to the gym in the morning,
the best thing that you can dois put your exercise gear out
somewhere obvious so that it'sthere in the morning.
Rather than just hoping thatyou'll wake up and remember and

(25:45):
feel inclined to do it.
So you want to remove thosebarriers.
Whenever you're trying toimplement something helpful and
healthy, you want to remove thebarriers to make it as easy as
possible.
Another example, if you want toeat more fruit, put a fruit bowl
in the center of the counter,the office or at home.
So that it's the first thingthat you see because the brain

(26:05):
is lazy in a lot of thesesituations.
That's how habits form becausewe just want to look for those
shortcuts and we want to do thesame thing over and over again.
So making it as easy as possibleto perform is the starting
point.
Response is the actual habitthat you perform.
So knowing that when yourexercise gear is out that you're

(26:27):
going to go to the gym.
And then once you've done thatthing, you get that reward, you
get that dopamine, you get thoseendorphins, and then you're more
inclined to repeat that habit.
So.
It's important to understandthat the dopamine hit that we
get is the greatest predictorabout whether we're going to
perform that habit again.

(26:47):
So we want to make sure thatwhatever we're trying to do that
it feels good and fuels us sothat we're more inclined to keep
repeating it.

That's the sort of formula for building out
positive habits and good habits,which is great to hear because I
think we can so easily beinfluenced by the people that
are around us as well, thesituations that we're in.
In a corporate setting, it couldbe around hundreds, hundreds of
people, right?
And you're seeing what they'redoing every day.
And if somebody is just eatingburritos every day, you know,
they're at the desk just bangingout the presentation or whatever

(27:16):
they need to be doing.
It's telling you, you know,whether you think it or not,
that that's kind of somethingthat people do, if you did only
have 10 minutes for your lunchbreak, you might end up doing
that too.
So it's a hard one to navigate.
We live in a sort of abundanceof food.
There's access to a lot ofoptions, right?
From a fast food point of viewand navigating that is also
quite difficult and preparingfor good food choices.

(27:37):
Like you were saying is actuallyreally difficult too.
So if you were preparing yourown lunch and bringing it in
with certain ingredients, thenthat's fine.
But if you went.
for a walk down the street andthere were 25 different options
and three of your mates aregoing to get this and somebody
else is going to get that, thenyou're going to be influenced by
that to some extent as well.
So it's hard in a way to kind ofcounter that at an individual

(27:59):
level, but I still feel likepeople now need to wake up to
the fact.
They need to take moreresponsibility for themselves,
what they're putting into theirbodies, essentially, because
this big kind of food epidemic,sit with people for many years,
the habits will just beingrained.
And then at the end, you'rethinking about retirement and
people are then going to havehealth problems, right?
Because they'll have had allthose habits for 20, 30, 40

(28:22):
years or whatever it is in thecorporate world.

It's chronic already, isn't it?
It is, and I think those kind ofbehaviors filter down because
people need to feel empoweredand that they have permission
from more senior leaders to dothe things that are in the best
interest of their well being.

(28:44):
I love, there's a tech companythat has a concept of leaders
leaving loudly, where it's not acase of everyone just trying to
sit at their desk.
For till the end hour and waitfor the leader before they can
leave, but leaders making itokay for other people to step
away, go home to their families,go home to their pets, whatever

(29:05):
it may be, go home to theirhousemates to try and disrupt
those ingrained habits aboutbeing the last one.
In the office for sure.
I think as well, havingconversations at a team level
around creating sort of guidingprinciples for a team around
what's okay, because we're allkind of forced into this

(29:28):
scenario when the pandemic hitand everyone was working from
home all of a sudden overnight.
Now, some teams had done it.
For a while.
And it was not new news, butother ones are really shocked
about it and trying to put inplace habits as a team where you
could all work together andstill be productive and get what

(29:48):
you needed from each other forin the best interest of the
business, but not many teamswere having helpful
conversations around what doesit look like from our behaviors
on a personal level thatactually support business
performance.
So an example would be, what areour rules around how and when
are we taking breaks and whichmeetings can we do as walk and

(30:12):
talk meetings?
Are we making it okay for eachother to go to the gym at lunch
or is that a before and after?
Working and coming to that sortof group agreement because it's
no good one person deciding thatthis is what I need to do for
myself without considering howit impacts the team, but rather

(30:33):
having upfront conversations sothat it can work for everyone.
In really helpful ways whilestill supporting those group and
team outcomes for the business.

Yeah.
Cause I think that it thenbecomes a shared responsibility,
it's not just on the individual,it's not you and me basically
trying to figure out how we'regoing to make it better for
ourselves, but it becomes ashared problem, shared solution,
everyone's working together totry and make that workplace a
lot healthier.
Um, and if the conditions areset up, then that can obviously
happen.
It's a bit easier.

Happier.
employees are more engaged, allthe research points that when
they feel supported, when theyfeel that their wellbeing is a
priority, they're going to bemore productive, more creative.
You're going to retain stafflonger, have less turnover, and
you're going to also have lesssick days.
So it's something that shouldn'tbe.

(31:24):
Underprioritized looking afterthe well being of people because
we know how much sick daysalready cost the Australian
economy billions and billions ofdollars every year and poor
sleep alone contributes to, Ithink it was 12 days per
employee of lost productivityeach year.

(31:45):
So really looking after the wellbeing of people.
Your people and making sure thatpeople are empowered to do the
same thing for themselves.
So important.
And everyone wins in thatscenario.

In wellbeing terms, how does a company set up
something that doesn't like,it's just another virtual yoga?
And it's coming from the heart,right?
From the leadership andwhoever's involved in the
committee, they want to makesure that it's set up.
But how do you do it in a waythat feels like it's important,
relevant, people are going to doit, people can get behind it,
without it just being thisservice to something that they

(32:20):
feel like they should be doing?

So I will lean on my change management experience
with that.
The most important thing.
It's to ask people what theywant.
Too often, organizations areafraid to ask because they're
afraid of what people are goingto feedback to them.
But I'll often, when I'm workingwith a particular contact within

(32:43):
an organization, and let's saywe run one workshop or we're
looking to run the firstworkshop and they'll be kind of
choosing between my suite ofoptions and they might be on a
wellbeing committee and HR andI'll say to them, do you know
what is a priority for people?
And they'll say, Oh, I like thelook of this.

(33:03):
And I say, well, if we've gottime.
I think it's really important toput some feelers out and ask
people what they want, what arethey interested in?
Because that's going to maximizeengagement and make it
meaningful for people ratherthan feeling like something is
being done to them.
But if you take them on thejourney and empower them along

(33:25):
the way, then you're going tohave maximum uptake and maximize
the positive outcomes from thatinitiative as well.

Playing that out.
I mean, what have been some ofthe initiatives that you think
have worked really well?

One client that I've done a lot of work with
over a number of years, I thinkwhat has worked so well for them
is that it's not just oneworkshop as a one off because
that's a great starting point asan example, you know, to learn a
little bit about nutrition.
Great.
People have A chance to askquestions, get a little bit of

(33:58):
knowledge, but from a changeperspective, is that going to
embed the types of behaviors andhabits that you're wanting to
see as positive outcomes forpeople?
Probably not, because it's justa little bite sized piece of
knowledge.
Whereas embedding An ongoingwell being program where I get

(34:21):
the opportunity to work withorganizations ongoing.
So you get to see that shift, soregular interventions.
And then more than that, thisparticular client that I'm
referring to, they engage me torun an annual wellness clinic
where I see their people one onone.
So it's more than a groupworkshop on a broad topic, but

(34:44):
actually going deep into theirwellbeing so that I can make
recommendations for them andprescribe custom meal plans to
them as individual, clinicallyindicated supplements, stuff
that is going to really changetheir health.
So that everyone is being takenon this journey together and the
outcomes have been incredible.

(35:06):
The managing director said thatthey've got an entire new
language set in the officearound wellbeing and people are
empowered to keep each otheraccountable to healthy habits.
So it's changed the entireculture.
Of an organization and that'spretty incredible.

So many addictive kind of behaviors in the work
setting and they're not allpositive unfortunately.
Yeah.
You kind of pick up a lot ofthat but actually if you can
flip it the other way andactually turn addiction into
something for good then that'sreally cool.
It sounds like you've been ableto achieve that with work that
you're doing so that's nicelydone.

It's rewarding.

It's rewarding.
Yeah.
It's rewarding.
You see it.
You see it change.
Yeah.
Happy people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Absolutely.

I mean, you wonder whether a totally happy
workforce is possible, you know,can that be achieved?
I don't know.

So it's a unicorn moment.
Again, leading on changemanagement, you can't make
everyone happy, but you cancertainly, yeah, you can
certainly try.
And I feel like the personalwellbeing interventions.
Are always going to do betterthan say a generalized video

(36:16):
yoga or whatever it may be.

Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause there's obviously likemental first aid and some other
practices coming in now whichare really well received as
well.
So if you're thinking at thatlevel and it's at an individual
level, do you think there's,there are things that people can
be doing for each other almostone to one that could help?

I think it's about creating connections with people
so that you know people and thatyou're able to, if you notice
that they are under a hugeamount of stress or not doing so
well or losing their way orstarting to take sick days, a
lot of mental health leave, thatyou're able to check in with

(36:54):
them and say, are you okay?
Um, I think that's a greatstarting point.
But also not on, notunderestimating the power of
every one of us being a rolemodel, because I have been in
different roles of varyinglevels of seniority in an
organization.
But always felt like a rolemodel in the well being space

(37:18):
and because it was somethingthat I was always so passionate
about, was able to take peopleon that journey with me.
So I think not underestimatingthe power that you have as an
individual to have that positiveimpact on others.

Yeah, definitely.
Definitely.
There's always the kind ofkitchen chat where people are
busy preparing food and pullingthings out of the fridge and,
you know, some curiosity reallyaround what people are managing
to rustle up.
And there's always somethinggoing on.
There's always something tolearn from, I found.

Yes, absolutely.
The kitchen chat, wonderful.
Like the watercooler chat.

We're talking about responsibility within the
organisation, so obviously wecan take responsibility for
ourselves and our own actions.
We can help some other people.
Sounds like the leadership canalso take some responsibility in
setting up the conditions in theright way.
But I think even that takes itso far.
But there's also the bit thatwe're trying to get around,
which is around probably theinformation, the misinformation.
Information that's out therearound nutrition, some of the

(38:13):
common mistakes people make in,in terms of what's healthy and
what's not.
And that can be really hardbecause when you're looking for
a shortcut to a good meal or ahealthy snack, then you're often
falling on the things that maybearen't that good for you either.
So have you found that to be thecase?
There's a lot of stuff,obviously in the shops, the
supermarket that looks like it'shealthy, but it's just not.

I think it's really difficult.
We have never been in a betterposition to find the information
that we desire.
But it's a double edged swordbecause we are so overwhelmed
and find ourselves in a positionof paralysis by analysis because
it feels like you're toldsomething one day, like

(38:53):
intermittent fasting is the bestthing ever, and then we're
hearing that paleo, carnivore,vegan, there's a different diet.
Every day.
And then, like you mentioned,you go into the supermarket and
you want to do the right thing.
You want to go for a healthieroption, but then you learn later
that it's not so much.

(39:14):
So I have a really pragmaticapproach to nutrition where I
don't purport the need to leanon organic everything, because
that is just not achievable forso many people, and full
disclosure, that's not how Ieat.
My thing, a bit like what Imentioned earlier, that any
movement is better than nomovement.

(39:37):
Any fruit or vegetable is betterthan no fruit or vegetable, so
don't overthink it.
Just get, and I know there'sjudgment around, some people
would say they never get theirfruit and veggies from Woollies
or Coles and you need to get itfrom farmer's markets, that
fruit and veggies in Coles haveno nutritional value.

(39:57):
That's not true, they do.
The one thing that I do,advocate for is eating
seasonally.
A, it's cheaper because you'reeating what's in season, it's
also fresher.
Because fresh produce, so freshfruit and veggies, have got live
enzymes in them, as opposed tofruit and veggies that have been
refrigerated for months andmonths on end, and brought in

(40:19):
from other countries.
So eating seasonally is areally, really great start,
because it forces the varietyInto your diet so that you're
eating different things all yearround because that's what our
gut bugs love.
They love the variety of fiberfrom different fruits and
veggies.
So that's a great start.
Then from what a balanced platelooks like, I like to give

(40:42):
people just a really simplevisual guide that you don't have
to be weighing things andcalorie counting or that's not
how I practice, that's not whatI have my clients do, but to
construct a visual plate whereyou've got a quarter of the
plate is covered in a protein.
So whether that is a vegetarianprotein like tofu or fish or an

(41:04):
animal sauce like steak orchicken, a quarter of it has got
a starch source.
So that could be potato, rice,pasta, sweet potato, pumpkin,
something like that, because weneed carbohydrates.
They are your brand's preferredsource of fuel, so we're not
about cutting the cards.
And then ideally, 50 percent ofyour plate is covered with

(41:26):
colorful veg.
So if you took nothing elseaway, that's a really great
starting point to make sure thatyou're getting a balanced plate.
And then from the packaged goodsperspective, there are some
really great brands here inAustralia.
I am loving FroPro is a brand,they do pizzas, they do

(41:46):
burritos, and a couple of otherthings.
It's high protein, high fiber,wonderful.
So those are great conveniencefoods.
And then the rest, I wouldn'toverthink it when you've got the
bulk of your food, if you'remaking Meals at home and ideally
we want to remove the barrierswhere you're buying food when

(42:08):
you go into the city or havingto make new lunches the next
day.
Just take leftovers.
It's the simplest thing.
Make enough dinner that you cantake some for lunch the next
day.
Heat it up.
Happy days.
That way you're in control ofthe ingredients.
You know what's going into it.
It's really easy.
You don't have to overthink it.
Done.

(42:28):
And then if you've got the bulkof your food that's coming from
Whole Foods.
If you've got some treat food inthere, I advocate strongly for
retaining treat foods in thediet because you've got to have
some fun.
You've got to feed the soul.
So there's no reason why youcan't have a bit of chocolate,
some lollies, cake, whateverfloats your boat personally.

(42:51):
But having a little bit of thatsoul food in the diet is just a
nice little ritual.
There is a big differencebetween sitting down for A piece
of cake or say a Tim Tam, ifyou've fueled yourself well,
you've started the day with thatnicely balanced breakfast,
you've had a nice lunch, andthen you sit down, say, with a
cup of tea and a treat of yourchoosing, great, do that, that's

(43:16):
a lovely ritual where you canmake a moment of it, versus you
haven't eaten all day or you'vetried to restrict yourself, you
open up the sleeve of Tim Tamsand all of a sudden you just
inhale them before eventhinking, and And then you
perpetuate and cycle all ofrestrict and bend.
That's a problem.

Yeah.
Or regret.

Absolutely.
You just want it into the cycleof regret.
And that's doing nothing for itbecause every food has its
place.
There is no.
One food that is a super foodthat might be controversial, but
there is no one food that is asuper food.
All fruits and veggies, in myopinion, are super foods and

(44:00):
similarly there is no food.
There is no one food or nutrientlike sugar or carbs or anything
like that that is moreresponsible for weight gain or
weight loss.
It's simply not true.
Overall, caloric intake is whatdictates whether you gain
weight, stay the same or loseweight.
How I work with my clients toapproach nutrition is we just

(44:24):
think about what are thenutrients that my body needs for
my brain to work well, for mybrain to be productive, for me
to be creative at work, for meto have a stable mood, for me to
be motivated to exercise andhave the energy to exercise.
One of those nutrients that weneed, and we just need that
balance of protein and carbs andfats, so our macronutrients, and

(44:46):
when we get those nutrients fromwhole foods, they're underpinned
by all the micronutrients likezinc and selenium and iron and
vitamin A and B vitamins and allthose beautiful things.
That's a lovely place to be in.

All right, sounds good.
You've explained it very well.
I think it's inspiring becauseit doesn't focus on that one
ingredient.
Everyone wants to make a villainout of something that they eat.

You know,

it's sugar or it's too many carbs or it's this or
that or there's alcohol orwhatever, but it just feels like
it's not any of those things.
It's just about balance andmaking sure that the, the
foundational aspects of whatyou're eating are in balance,
but also there.
Yeah, I was watching another TVshow about the microbiome the
other night.
Just in preparation, it wassaying something like you had to

(45:30):
eat like 20, 20 to 30 differentvegetable types every week just
to introduce that variety intothe gut.
And I've no idea how manyvegetables or fruits I eat every
week.
So I'm actually making a listthis week of how many I'm doing.
Yeah.
It feels like a lot.

So it's, it's plant foods, and so that's a good
guide.
Plant foods include nuts, seeds,lentils, pulses, whole grains.
So you don't have to find 30different types of lettuce,
which could seem overwhelming.
Um, but all of those differentplants, exactly, in season, that

(46:07):
it's 30 different types of plantfoods.
But again, setting people upfor.
Success is what I like to do andstarting if someone is only
eating two different types ofplant foods a day, let's
increase that to five and thenbuild from there.
So don't feel if you're nothitting that 30 different types

(46:30):
of plant foods yet, it's notlike that is just a number to
never be achieved, but just try.
Next time you go to thesupermarket or the farmer's
markets or wherever you get yourfruits and veggies, branch out
and try something that you'venever tried before.
It could be a different type oflettuce or it could be some
sprouted seeds or maybe younormally eat spinach in a salad

(46:55):
and try some rocket because anydifferent type of food is going
to have a different type offiber in it.
And that is what our microbiomereally, really loves.
So just find those little bitesized steps that you can do to
just change things up a littlebit so that you're not eating
the same, broccoli carrots andpeas all year round.

Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause there's a ton ofsupplements and things you can
get out there as well.
I mean, that could quickly erodeyour paycheck.

Yeah.
And I find it really sad becausea lot of my clients come to me
taking so many supplements thatthey're rattling.
And I actually had.
Yeah.
Vegetarian client just last weekand she was taking greens powder
because she thought that that'swhat it was well-marketed on
Instagram, I think and you saidof course, I was just taking it

(47:44):
and I said Exactly, and I saidit's not doing you any harm But
you're a vegetarian.
All you eat is plant foods youknow if someone was coming to me
and wasn't eating any plantfoods from a clinical
perspective.
Would I start with the greenspowder?
No, I would be more inclined toget them onto like a nice tasty

(48:07):
smoothie that would get reallynice flavors with some delicious
like mango or strawberries orwhatever flavor.
That's how I would start to getin some more veggies as a
starting point.
Greens powders, for the mostpart, they're definitely not
doing you any harm, but they arereally expensive and it's a bit
like a multivitamin wherethey've got kind of micro

(48:30):
amounts of nutrients, so not abad thing, but are they at a
therapeutic dose that you'reactually getting the health
benefits from?
More often than not, no.
I think as well experimentingwith different ways of cooking
and preparing veg.
People think of a salad and theythink, Oh, cucumber, carrot,
lettuce, boring.

(48:51):
But a roast veg salad that hasgot some nice seeds on there for
crunch.
You've got some.
Goat cheese feta or halloumi orwhatever kind of cheese that you
like with a nice protein onthere, whether it's salmon or
chicken, how delicious to sitdown to that.
So it's about changing people'sperspective on things as well.
Or if you're English and yougrew up in a family where the

(49:14):
veggies, We're cooked for solong for a Sunday roast that
they turn gray.
It's about rewiring the brainthat not all veggies need to be
cooked that way.
Check.
I can relate.
So we can stir fry things or wecan steam them or we can sauté
them with flavor.
That's another thing.
It's like you don't have to sitdown.

(49:35):
To steamed broccoli withabsolutely no zing to it, if you
don't enjoy veggies, get somenice spices, some herbs, a nice
dressing.
That's another thing that dietculture has ruined for people,
that they think that they can'thave a little drizzle of
dressing because it's got toomuch sugar or too much fat.
But then what happens is thatthey don't eat a salad at all.

(49:58):
Because it doesn't taste good.
So let's just think about thislogically, put some dressing on
it, make it taste good and eatthe veggies, eat the fruit.

Already really good stuff.
And I wanted to ask you oneother thing, which is probably
about how we decided what we'regoing to eat.
But in terms of.
How we eat, some of thosesituations, because obviously a
lot of, a lot of times in arush, particularly at work,
sometimes it might be evening,kids, there's a lot of chaos,
and obviously there's thisnotion of mindful eating, which
is maybe encouraging us to slowdown and think a little bit more

(50:28):
about what we're eating, whenwe're eating it, so that we
could pay attention more tothat.
Should bring you and restore youto a better kind of mental
position as well, but is thereanything in that area that you
hear is coming up?

It might sound a bit woo to some people, this
idea of voluntary eating, butit's actually rooted in science.
Because if we think about thephysiological reactions that
need to happen and also physicalreactions to food.
So our digestion starts workingwhen we look at food.
And that's why a pretty meal isgreat because it's appealing and

(51:02):
If you think about when you'rehungry and you're looking at a
tasty meal, you startsalivating.
So those are your digestivejuices that are starting to
work.
That's a really good thing.
So sitting down and actuallyengaging with your meal.
A nice saying is that you shouldnever eat if you can see your
knees.
So no more eating in front ofthe TV with your plate on your

(51:25):
knees, but sit at a table, sitdown and make it a moment.
And there are some culturesaround the world which really
showcase in terms of longevityand their way to approaching
food is making it a socialinteraction that we weren't made
to eat alone and just shovel ourfood in front of the computer.

(51:46):
Because if you think about.
You're in a stressed mood, soyou've got high cortisol, you're
in amongst work deadlines, andthen you're throwing food in
front of you and you'reshoveling.
What stress is doing, itactually lowers your stomach
acid, so it inhibits yourability to digest and absorb
nutrients as well as what weshould.
Now, that can lead to all sortsof problems.

(52:09):
The least of which is a bit ofbloating, a bit of cramping, but
when we've got chronic stress,it changes the intestinal
lining, which is normally I liketo describe it as like a
butterfly net.
And then when we're stressed, itloosens it and just for visual
reason, think about it like afisherman's net with really big
holes and then food particlescan escape elsewhere into the

(52:32):
body, wreaking havoc, creatinginflammation and can also
trigger off autoimmunity inextreme cases.
So we really want to be focusedon lowering our stress levels
when we sit down to a meal.
So sit down to a table, look atyour food, smell it, allow your
body to prepare for receivingfood and don't shovel it.

(52:56):
So some of the techniques Irecommend for clients is putting
your knife and fork down inbetween bites, taking a sip of
water, setting a timer.
Another great strategy,especially for families where
mealtimes can be pretty hectic.
And I've got.
A seven, a five and a three yearold.
I didn't say my meal times arerelaxed in the slightest, but

(53:19):
what we have introduced is, it'scalled Family Talking Point.
These cards that just inspireconversation.
And I mean, the three year old'sa little bit loose in this
interpretation, but the oldertwo get it, and I can see the
benefit as it goes on.
But it's just forcing us to stopand talk and engage with each

(53:41):
other because meals are there tobe enjoyed, we shouldn't be just
eating to fill a hole and thengo on to the next thing really
stopping because we're able tomore accurately on a hunger
satiety cues so that we canactually register when we're
full.
Rather than sitting down infront of the TV and like

(54:02):
shoveling a bowl of ice cream infive minutes or, you know,
eating a block of chocolate andthen thinking at the 20 minute
mark when our stomach isactually registered and you
spiral into that guilt and shamecycle of what we've done.
So that would be a reallyimportant step to take,
particularly for families,because we're role modeling

(54:23):
those positive behaviors andhabits for the next generation.
And it's also benefiting our ownhealth and well being.

Yeah, I mean, I think there's lots of great
stuff in that.
Thank you.
And yeah, I mean, the attentionspan of us, let alone our
children is, it feels like it'sreally different to how it was
when we were growing up.
They, they want to just sitdown, eat and go.
And if they're not listening tosomething in their ear or
watching it.
You know, screen at the sametime.
It feels like it's a rare thing,basically to, to all be eating

(54:51):
at the same time and to beenjoying that ceremony of eating
in some sort of way.
Yeah, it's a hard one.
I'll tell you a funny story,which is I went on a mindfulness
course.
One of my previous employers,there was a whole module on
mindful eating.
And part of this module was thestart of it.
She handed out a square ofchocolate to everyone in the
room.
By the time she'd gone aroundthe room to hand out the
chocolate, I'd already eaten mychocolate, right?

(55:13):
So, because I didn't know whatwas going to happen, I just ate
it.
And that was just a completeknee jerk reaction, because
that's how I normally wouldapproach the situation of
getting the chocolate out andeating it.
But it was totally the wrongthing to do.
And yeah, I felt really guiltyabout it.
She gave me another one,thankfully, but it was a bit
embarrassing.
Failed that test miserably,yeah.
I did listen to the lesson andthen, yeah, felt even more
guilty, not just for having justeaten it, but yeah.

(55:34):
But, but also no, no attentionspan whatsoever.
But yeah, I think what you'resaying is incredibly important,
particularly as we should reallyplace a value on that occasion,
but also the, the nutrientsthrough the things we're
bringing into our body feel likeincredibly important and those
things can be often overlooked.
So really enjoyed our chattoday, Kaylee and you.
Bringing such a fresh and livelyperspective to the way in which

(55:56):
we eat, the things we can thinkabout, particularly within a
working environment, just feelslike it's, it's often neglected.
And I think we can do some verysimple things.
And you've been kind enough andreally generous with your, your
knowledge and wisdom around thatso that people can try a few
other things out.
If there's a way in which peoplecould get in touch, you know,
they want to ask you a questionor if they want to find out more
about your work, where wouldthey find you?

Thank you, Chris.
A great place to start isheading to my website, Cailie
Ford nutrition.
com.
I've got a range of freeresources to download blog
articles on different nutritiontopics and you can learn more
about my workplace well beingservices, but if you're looking
for a more personalized support,you can reach out for a free

(56:38):
discovery call to tell aboutyour goals, my approach, and see
if it's a great fit for you.
Specifically, I specialize ingut health, hormones,
sustainable fat loss, andwomen's health.
So if If any of those resonatewith you, I'm definitely here to
help.
And then from socials, you canconnect with me on LinkedIn.

(56:59):
I'd love to hear from you or onInstagram, Cailie Ford
Nutrition.

Wonderful.
All right.
And what's for dinner tonight?

We have eaten dinner.
Come on.
I've got three kids.
So we have prison tea at 530 andwe had veggie loaded tacos.
This is a controversial thing inmy house.
I was telling someone about ityesterday and they could not get
their head around it.
We have Taco Monday, not TacoTuesday, because I prepared the
taco itself on a Sunday so thatI don't have to do it on a

(57:29):
Monday night.
That's another one of my littleefficiency hacks, is very few
meals in my working rank areactually cooked from scratch on
the night.
A lot of it is prepared and thenI just assemble.
So tonight, Was taco Monday.

Very good.
You heard it here first.
It's a new thing.
Um, thanks so much, Cailie.
We really, really appreciate thechat and thank you.
I'll leave you to your eveningnow.
We'll go back to

Thank you so much, Chris.
Great to chat with you.

Thank you.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}E61 Stress to Success: Practical Nutrition and Stress Management advice for Busy Professionals

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The Breakfast Club

Crime Junkie

All Episodes

E61 Stress to Success: Practical Nutrition and Stress Management advice for Busy Professionals

Dateline NBC