E67 Authenticity in the Spotlight: Evolving Social Media for Real Connections

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"We know that authentic content is what comes through. We know storytelling is so important. So I actually help businesses bring it back in-house if they felt like they were very over-reliant on external factors. No one knows us, our customer, and our business better than we do." – Kim James

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• How platforms like Facebook and TikTok have changed over the years and the strategies that work today.
• Why authenticity and understanding customer behaviour are central to impactful marketing.
• The shift towards businesses managing their own social media and the benefits of in-house teams.
• Kim’s personal journey, including the risks she took and the lessons she learned about growth and purpose.
• The importance of building a personal brand for future-proofing your career and opening new opportunities.
• How to use AI tools to create content more efficiently without losing authenticity.

Key links

• Kim James on LinkedIn
• Career Girl Diaries on TikTok
• Career Girl Diaries on Instagram
• Hootsuite

About our guest 

Kim's candid stories and down-to-earth advice will make you laugh, think, and maybe even dream bigger.

With a decade of experience in content and digital marketing, Kim helps organisations launch and scale their marketing strategies, campaigns, and products.

Her approach integrates insights and a passion for consumer behaviour with human psychology to create industry-leading content strategies and funnels that can be applied to all industries.

About our host

Our host, Chris Hudson, is a Teacher, Experience Designer and Founder of business transformation coaching and consultancy Company Road.

Chris considers himself incredibly fortunate to have worked with some of the world’s most ambitious and successful companies, including Google, Mercedes-Benz, Accenture (Fjord) and Dulux, to name a small few. He continues to teach with University of Melbourne in Innovation, and Academy Xi in CX, Product Management, Design Thinking and Service Design and mentors many business leaders internationally.

For weekly updates and to hear about the latest episodes, please subscribe to The Company Road Podcast at https://companyroad.co/podcast/

Episode Transcript

Chris Hudson (00:05):
Hello and welcome back to the company road
podcast, which is your go todestination for inspiring
stories and actionable insights,fueling your journey towards
impactful innovation in someway, hopefully today, and today
I'm really thrilled to have adynamic guest who combines
humor, wisdom, and a richtapestry of experience really to
captivate and challenge us all.
Kim James, welcome to the show.

Kim James (00:26):
your having me.
Happy to be here.

Chris Hudson (00:28):
Yeah, thank you.
I'll just explain a bit aboutyour background.
So you've got an approach tocandid storytelling and down to
earth advice that I'm reallycurious about and I really want
to kind of get into today.
And you'll probably not onlymake us laugh, but you'll also
inspire some people on the show.
To dream bigger and probablythink differently as well, which
is exactly what we want.
So, from your background, you'vegot a unique approach and it

(00:48):
blends insights into consumerbehavior and human psychology,
and you're looking at industryleading content strategies, but
content is your thing, socialcontent, sort of world is what
we're going to be going intoacross various fields.
And I think this is.
Wisdom that everyone,entrepreneur, anyone in this day
and age, because we see socialand content all the time, we

(01:09):
need to know how to do some ofthis stuff and probably do it a
bit better.
So bringing that into our work,how can we achieve more impact
and yeah, I want to get intoyour story really, Kim, and how
you as a thought leader havegraced local and international
stages.
And you've done all this workwith amazing organizations, with
TikTok, Hootsuite, or whoeveryou want to mention, but yeah,
keen to get into it with youtoday.

(01:29):
So maybe you could just start bytelling your story a little bit.
And we'll start with, yourexperience with the working
world today, what's happened foryou?

Kim James (01:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
No, I appreciate it.
I was actually on a podcast onceand they wrote it to me of like
Kim's candid stories and down toearth advice will make you
think, dream, and maybe even, goa bit further in life.
So that's what that kind of camethrough.
And I was like, Oh, lovely, but,Yeah, no, I actually started in
the corporate world straight outof university, grew up on a
macadamia farm in a rural, likeregional Northern New South

(01:59):
Wales, but always wanted to havethe corporate world, always
wanted to live that life, saw itfrom when I was younger.
So I actually started out as anoperations graduate with Reece
Plumbing.
Always wanted to get intomarketing, but I was very aware
that, coming up in the country,I didn't have the opportunities
for internships like others.
So I actually started inoperations management.
I remember they said to me, doyou know what the role actually

(02:19):
entails?
I was like, I don't care.
Get me to the city.
I just want to start.
So I actually started inoperations in plumbing in
Parramatta of Western Sydney.
Then from that, I actually grewwith the company and grew
internally.
And that's where I reallystarted to understand that.
No one's coming to find you togive you a dream job.
If you want to get somewhere,the saying always was, if you
put in that the company willgive it back to you.

(02:40):
And yeah, I kind of just startedpioneering that moved into the
marketing team, moved toMelbourne.
And this was 10 years ago wherewe had Facebook pages, but.
There was no strategy thatpeople think that TikTok now is
like just this rogue place.
You should have seen Facebookpages 10 years ago.
That was the rogue of socialmedia.
But at the point we didn't haveReece Bathrooms had a very

(03:02):
established like content andsocial presence, but us, we
didn't really think it was thereand there wasn't any actual ways
of working or strategy.
So I put my hand up.
I'd done a post grad in digitalmarketing through the Chartered
Institute.
Said to the plumbing marketingleader, what are we doing?
We're one of Australia's biggestbrands.
Like, why aren't we on content?
Why are we taking it seriously?
And they're like, I don't know,work it out.
So I just Googled how to write acontent strategy, how to do

(03:24):
social media.
And I had a bit of a background,but I'd be lying if I said that
it was really the degree thatgot me there.
It was the Google search.
And yeah, set a meeting on aFriday afternoon, invited
everyone had the CMO in thereand I left me like, Look at me,
great meeting, what a day.
And they were like, she's right.
Someone has to do this fulltime.
And then they asked the otherleaders on the Monday and then

(03:46):
asked me if I'd do the role onthe Tuesday.
And that's how it started.
Like it was very, do you want tobe our first content person?
And it was a journey.
It was coming into reallydigitizing a business at a time
where we were still heavilytraditional marketing.
We still had print newslettersthat would go into stores.
Brick and mortar so there wasthat early period that was the

(04:07):
real grit that when you'retrying to digitize and change
your business, but bring themalong on that journey with you
that I learned firsthand.
And then, yeah, from there, wethen scaled it broader and
bigger resource.
I had its own internal agency.
So then we moved into that in2020 and actually worked with a
few other brands.
But being Reece, we obviouslyhad the opportunity to be

(04:27):
customers of some really awesometech companies.
So I actually then went toHootsuite as the strategist for
Australia and New Zealand andAsia.
And was that in 2022, butunfortunately the tech industry,
the structure wasn't set up forlong term success where we were
made redundant at that time.
But then about two weeks later,I got contacted by someone else
in the industry that was thissmall business that was

(04:50):
absolutely killing it in thegovernment space.
And I'm thinking, how is thissmall business absolutely
killing it with the biggestfederal and state government
clients?
So I was like, you piqued myinterest.
I'm in.
And then from that actuallyspent, yeah, about two years
with government and social,which was a whole other breadth
of opportunities.
That was when we were looking atsocial.
Social intelligence and citizencommunications, making sure

(05:10):
people were getting the rightinformation during times of
crisis or also that resilienceafterwards.
So yes, it did that.
And then there's nothing likegrowing a bit older and
thinking.
When is the time that you buildsomething of your own?
And that's been me for the pastfew months and I've yet started
to build an opportunity of myown.
I've threw in that.
The last 10 years in thisindustry, I've really started to

(05:30):
see that we've got a bit of adivide where originally digital
and social was just handed outelsewhere.
Like when social started comingup, it was a bit of like, Ooh, I
don't want to do it.
And someone be like, I'd do it.
And they go, great, give it toan agency or a freelance, but
we've got such a divide now.
And we know that authenticcontent is what comes through.
We know storytelling is soimportant.
So I actually help businessesbring it back in house if they

(05:53):
felt like they were very overreliant on external factors, but
they're like, well, hang on, noone knows us, our customer and
our business and our industrybetter than we do.
A lot of businesses have startedto resource that internally,
getting a social media manager,a bit of content, maybe a
content creator.
So I actually help them bring'emback in house.
I bring my whole toolbox oftoolkits and everything's tried,

(06:14):
tested, and I've got the storyand the lessons to come along
with it for a good yarn.
And yeah, I help businesses dothat.
Or on the flip side, work witheveryone from intrapreneurs,
entrepreneurs, founders on theirpersonal brands.
So that's a bit of my story.
In what?
Two minutes?

Chris Hudson (06:29):
That's a whistle stop.
Wow.
Wow.
You can take a breath now there.
No, that was awesome.
That was impressive.
I think from the idyllic sceneryof the macadamia farm and
obviously into the city, andthen it sounds like you're on a
rollercoaster from the startthere were opportunities, there
was lots going on.
And I remember that time myself,actually, it was all happening
at speed.
And it was the speed and theconfusion.
Those two things don't reallywork that well together.

(06:50):
A lot of people try to figure itout.
And I think it took almost thebrave few to have the courage
within organizations tobasically say, Oh, well.
Nobody else out there is goingto do it any worse.
So why don't we just have acrack at it and start putting
things in place?
And all of a sudden that's thefirst stepping stone.
And then it's leading tofoundational activities.
And then after a couple ofyears, you're refining and

(07:10):
iterating a little bit, but alot of people really held back,
from jumping in two feet andthat they kind of had to catch
up later and maybe.
I don't know, maybe they werefaster to market from some
lessons that were learnedalready.
But yeah, it did feel like apretty exciting time.
And yeah, I mean, yeah, go on.

Kim James (07:27):
I was just gonna say, there's nothing like in your 20s
to take so many risks.
Like I think now being olderwith that hindsight, I look back
at my younger self and I think,God, you were so like ready to
take any risk.
I think for me, I was kind oflike, I can always go back to
the farm.
I can always go back to thecountry make the most of it.
And yeah, I just absolutely sayto people in your twenties, take

(07:47):
as many career risks as possiblebecause that first 10 years will
set up the trajectory.
Like it is going to set up whoyou know, what you learn and
what opportunities that you canflourish.
And then your older self wouldbe like, Oh, thank God.
I took all those risks at 23years old.

Chris Hudson (08:02):
Yeah, yeah.
Can you remember what felt to bethe biggest risk that you took
during that time?

Kim James (08:07):
Honestly, going and asking a business, Hey, you
don't have this.
I, can I do it?
That was something that I thinkback and I think right now we,
we are so cautious about risksof do I have the right resume?
Have I got enough experience?
And we're finding that perfect,but I haven't worked in social.
Obviously I've been auditing andhelping Facebook pages since
university days, but I just hadthis figure it out, which now

(08:30):
myself as a business owner, I'velearned everything is
figureoutable, but honestly,back then it was probably
putting my hand up to go, Ohyeah.
An Australian love brand withalmost a hundred years of
history.
I can absolutely grow and managea community that I'd never done
before.
I would say it was probablythat.

Chris Hudson (08:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Nice.
Was that a Marie Forleo quotethat you just dropped in there?
Everything is figureoutable oris that one of yours?
I've read the book as well.
My wife's read it too, but yeah.
Yeah, no, she's awesome.
I think she's right though.
I think if you've got thatappetite and you've got that
conviction and you feel like notonly can you figure things out,
but that positions you in astronger position, right?

(09:07):
You feel like you can help andsupport people.
So if you're putting thatforward, the people are going to
trust you, presumably.
And

Kim James (09:14):
if you can also go to a business and go, hi.
There is an opportunity here.
I have the solution businesses.
Listen, there's two types ofpeople that's like, Oh, this is
a, I can see this as an issue weneed to fix this.
Or if you really want to fasttrack your career, this is an
issue.
I can see the solution and I'mactually the one that can
actually resolve it.
Whole lot of the different worldbusiness will go.

(09:34):
Yes, please implement.
I've been doing that since.
Probably, yeah, when I firsttook that, that one, and even
the last company I was at withinsix months, I said, this is
everything we've done in sixmonths, but I actually could see
myself doing this other role,which was a bigger breadth of
work, and this is how I would doit, and this is how we could
help structure it, and they werelike, yeah, no brainer.

Chris Hudson (09:53):
Yeah, and I think if we're thinking about
intrapreneurs who listen to thisshow, then if everything is
figureoutable, then they canlearn from this chat.
If they're in that sort ofmindset and they can figure
stuff out and just get it doneand move ahead with confidence,
that actually the step intoentrepreneurship and out into
running your own business at acertain point in your career, if
that point comes up is not, it'snot a massive, or it's, it is

(10:16):
still a massive leap, but it'snot gonna be that, that hard to
get your head around becauseyou're doing a lot of presenting
a lot of the activities.
The behaviors, the attitudes,the things that you value, the
way that you work all of thatwill be what you're already
doing already within yourorganization.
So yeah.
Does that bring you into it?

Kim James (10:31):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I think for me right now,working as a team of one is a
completely different way of whenI was in a business of 8, 000
people.
I've seen other people talkabout how in big business, you
influence in small business tostart up.
You do.
And that's absolutely prevalent.
If you wanted to set a newstrategy, do a new campaign,
update the website and bigbusiness, you would put putting

(10:52):
together a proposal to getfeedback from other people.
And we could do this andinfluencing what that looks
like.
When you're in a small business,it's like we need to do this.
And everyone's like, yeah,great.
Okay.
What does that look like this?
Can you do it tomorrow?
And then now I update my websiteand I don't have to ask anyone.
It's the weirdest experienceafter like 10 years of trying to
get feedback for three months.
So I think for that, if we cankind of identify that there is

(11:15):
so many other avenues in ourcareer.
That are figureoutable.
What are the transferable skillsthat you had in your past that
can set you up to be ready forthis is just the right mindset
that's going to fast track itwhether or not you're working
for yourself or someone else.

Chris Hudson (11:28):
Do you think back then you'd have considered
yourself an intrapreneur, justout of interest?

Kim James (11:32):
I think I probably would have now that I knew what
it was.
Like back then I was justhonestly ready to go for it.
I think I've naturally alwaysbeen someone that staying
stagnant is my biggest fear inlife.
Like I would felt like I was atbattle with my brain, my entire
twenties of like, I can't getstagnant.
And as soon as I felt like Iwasn't growing, my brain would
be like, we're not happy.

(11:53):
And I would be like, Off atnight being like, what am I
doing?
Where am I going?
I think I'm just a very purposedriven person that I had to see
it out.
What is that next thing?
What is that growth?
And that's where.
I kind of through my othersocial channels call the career
goal diary is talk to peopleabout that of this is how I did
get ahead.
And I say to people, yourcareer, no one's coming to find
you.
No one's coming to give you yourdream job, but if you take

(12:15):
control of it in your hands andyour trajectory, it's fast
tracked and you're the onethat's leading it.
And yeah, it is more work, butchoose your heart.
Do you want to stay where youare?
And then in five years time go,Oh, I wish I jumped sooner.
Or do you want to go, wow, lookwhat I've done in five years.
So

Chris Hudson (12:30):
yeah, no, that's interesting.
I mean, how do you, if we thinkabout that more practically, how
do you, how can you describesome of the steps that you take
to think about your plans, yourpurpose, where you're going, how
often that happens, if you'vegot a routine?

Kim James (12:42):
Yeah, I absolutely did.
I mean, back now, now my routineis Whatever decision I make for
myself, to be honest, which isjust depends on the day that you
asked, but back then I wouldabsolutely treat performance
reviews.
Like it was that opportunity tohave that one on one with the
business.
I would really identify and Ihad a bit of what are the main
campaigns that I'd done?
What are achievements have Ihit?

(13:02):
I also would have a bit of asmile file, which I said,
others, especially now withteams and the ability for
instant message, what are themessages people are saying?
What are the emails you'regetting and feedback, having all
of that.
And then for me, what I would dois I would actually go, okay,
say if I was at a coordinatorlevel and I would read, what is
a senior coordinator or a seniorstrategist or a manager role
look like?
I would read the job title ofwhat I wanted my next step to

(13:24):
be, identify what those gapswere, and then speak with the
business of, Hey, I actuallywould really love to do learning
and development in theseparticular areas, which would
elevate me if I put a businesscase, which then also my
skillsets bigger, the businesshas that return of better
quality work, then they would gogreat.
And then, so when it came timeto go, I want to step into the

(13:46):
manager position, it was a nobrainer because I had built
myself to already get there.
So having that ability that it'sbasically you're a product and
start selling yourself.
Treat yourself like a businesscase and those performance
reviews to be that opportunityto do.
So be really clear on what youwant your next step to be and go
into it.
I'm sure that there's a lot ofpeople on TikTok that would call
that manifesting and maybe Imanifested in vision board.

(14:09):
My next role.
Don't think I ever thought thatit was like that, but I'm sure
there's a viewer that it couldbe as well.
But yeah, that's how I did it.
I went, what would that be andhow can I.
Bring it to the business and go,well, we're here.
I could get you to hear this iswhat I need to do it.
And it just became a no braineror on the flip side, if you get
to that and the business goes,we can't, that is your

(14:32):
opportunity to go.
I've hit everything I can dohere.
And that's the main question Iget asked is like, when do I
move?
When do I go somewhere else?
And I say to people like, Whenthat sponge is dry, when you are
like, I cannot move any further,I cannot advance anymore.
I want to get to this nextopportunity.
It can't be here.
Then you go and find somewherethat it is.

Chris Hudson (14:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's cool.
I was going to ask about visionboards.
I wasn't sure if that was one onyour wall right next to you or
behind you.
I don't think it is.
It's just a painting.
So it's

Kim James (15:00):
just, it's just a bow

Chris Hudson (15:01):
manifest.
So here's my lovely picture.
Yeah.
If you've got anything you wantto share, we can screen share
any of that stuff, but you don'thave to, no pressure.

Kim James (15:08):
No, I have a video that we can link in of like how
I got promoted in my twenties.
Cause obviously people would askthat funny.
Yeah.
I've got it.
I post on TikTok and Instagramand I'd even had business owners
comment being like, this is sotrue.
Like if I had someone in my teambring me this, I'd be like,
yeah, that's a no brainer.

Chris Hudson (15:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
I mean, that all sounds like itsounds.
Sensible.
And obviously it worked for you.
I mean, how did people respondto that when you were in the
moment?
And can you remember any storiesfrom that time?

Kim James (15:35):
I think it also really comes down to the
business and the culture where Iwas very fortunate at Reece is
that they were in a very big, aperiod of growth, period of
digitization, and there was justthe right people in the business
at the right time that were alsohungry for that next
opportunity.
So I was very fortunate.
I had eight role level ups.
Sorry, six in eight years ofrole level ups and about eight

(15:56):
overall in 10 years when workingfor someone else before to work
for myself.
So it was definitely the rightbusiness that had that mindset
as well.
And also the right managers.
We had opportunities wherethere'd been a change of
leadership and someone had comein and I knew that they were
young and hungry and I was like,Hey, This is what I want next.
And so we had that dialogue andwhen would that look like and
what would it be?

(16:17):
And I presented them, this iseverything that it would need to
be.
This is my business case.
And yeah, at the time I wasdefinitely in the place that was
driving and hungry for thatchange.

Chris Hudson (16:27):
Yeah.
Awesome.
Yeah.
That's really cool.
And yeah, I mean, obviouslyyou're hugely driven, right?
I'm wondering what sits behindthat drive in a way, because
some people get very drivenbecause they face a lot of
challenges or they might've comeacross something that really
inspired them.
If you got anything like thatthat springs to mind?

Kim James (16:43):
Yeah, definitely.
I probably wasn't as driven asthis as a kid.
I was a very creative kid that Idid.
It wasn't a high performer inhigh school.
That was definitely not where Ipeaked.
I was like a C grade student.
Towards the end of high school.
I was actually told I was, I gotreally unwell and I was looking
at would I even finish highschool?
And I was just like, no chance.
I'm not repeating.

(17:04):
We finish right now.
And just we got through thatpiece.
I was like, just these absolute,no, I think I have this
ingrained.
If someone says you can't dosomething, I'm like, let me show
you, take the photo and send itto you.
So, yeah, that kind of ingrainedand came through it, maybe like
a lot of people right now,everyone's identifying going,
Oh, maybe that'sneurodivergency, which I've

(17:25):
obviously experienced as well.
But I think for me, yeah, I'vealways just kind of had that
drive as soon as I got intouniversity and there was that
opportunity that this is yourcareer and it's you're in the
driver's seat.
And I think.
When I was in operations, as Isaid, it wasn't what I wanted to
do early in my twenties.
And I was sitting in Sydney andI was doing a role that it was a
very math heavy role.

(17:46):
I was not good at it and I countwith my fingers, so it wasn't
what I wanted to do.
It wasn't creative, but I satthere going, no one's going to
fix this.
Like no one's going to give memy job.
And I was young and hungry and Iwas like, I have to do it.
So if no one else is going to doit.
I have to.
So probably that point of likeearly in my career, not being

(18:07):
where I wanted to go and going,you go ahead, toughen up.
No one's going to do it for youand pulling myself out of that.
And then opening up everyopportunity from there, to be
honest.

Chris Hudson (18:16):
So you're looking forward and also is the rear
view kind of thing where if youturn around, you can see what's
behind you.
And that's the other option.
You either go forward, you goback.
So

Kim James (18:25):
yeah.
Yeah.

Chris Hudson (18:26):
That's Irish too.

Kim James (18:26):
Yeah.
I strongly believe that the realwhole what is the purpose of
life is to have purpose, whetheror not that's in your job,
whether or not that's joiningwhen you I'm part of Taylor
Swift fandom, it is a purpose.
You feel like you're part ofsomething.
You have purpose when you're inpart of a football club with
your team that you get to bepart of every week.
Like.
The key to happy life is nothappiness because not every day

(18:49):
it's up and down.
It's actually purpose.
And you can have that workingfor someone else.
If you were very values alignedbusiness and people feel like
they can see where they are nowand where they get to.
That purpose is what will keepyour really good people in.
And I had phenomenal yearsworking for someone else.
I strongly believe that I don't,and look, maybe my point will

(19:09):
change in 10 years time, but Idon't believe that everyone
needs to work for themselves.
I think you can have aphenomenal career working for
someone else that's purposedriven, that you can have a
great life.
And I'll never say that a salaryor a corporate role is the bad
thing to do, because I think aslong as there's purpose in it
and you're excited to get out ofbed every day.
That's a win in my books.

Chris Hudson (19:27):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, what would you say topeople that are a bit unsure as
to how to define or find theirpurpose?
What, have you got anything thatsprings to mind though?

Kim James (19:35):
Yeah, I would probably tackle that in the same
way as how I go about withpeople of understanding what
their personal brand is.
And it's really aboutunderstanding what is your
knowledge?
What are your experiences?
What is your interests?
And what are those things thatyou're just like, I really,
really value.
In life, obviously I'm verypurpose driven in my work.
There's a lot of people thathave purpose in other avenues
and they're like, work pays thebills.

(19:56):
I'm purposeful in other avenues,a hundred percent.
But I think for your career,it's identifying those key
things.
And also, We're at a point nowwhere a lot of people contact me
about a career change and theysay, look, I'm burnt out.
I've done 10 years in this job.
Oh my God, I have to do another40, 50.
I don't think I could, butwe're, we never did been at a
better time for people toactually have their transferable

(20:18):
skills and level up.
At home, at your own time,there's no, Oh, I want to go
back to uni to have to study.
You could do something online.
You could identify transferableskills.
Like career change is going tobe something we're seeing a lot
more of.
I don't think we'll see peoplego.
I was a marketing manager for 50years anymore, but I did this
and then I didn't do that.
And then I went over here andthen that opened up a door here.

(20:39):
So yeah, that's probably aroundabout way of answering the
question, isn't it?

Chris Hudson (20:43):
Yeah.
I think you covered it.
It's an interesting thing,obviously, finding a direction,
finding a path.
And I think the openness tochange that through your life
and through your career hasnever been great.
So it feels like you cantransition now with pretty,
pretty much, anything you canswitch into if you want to, if
you really put your mind to it,I was talking to a guy yesterday
and he was One of Melbourne'sbig design leaders, right?

(21:05):
And he used to be a musician.
He's now looking at watchdesign.
He's done different roles.
He's been obviously in academiaand he's done other things
there.
And I think you can think of italmost in chapters.
And if one thing leads toanother, then great.
But if you've got a very busymind and you've got broader
ambitions, or if you can'treally nail that one thing that
you think you need to, you justhave to focus on the next step,

(21:27):
but maybe that's a sidestep tosomething else, right?

Kim James (21:29):
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
You're spot on with looking atyour life and your career and
chapters.
I do say to people where youstart doesn't have to be where
you finish up.
I think a lot of people look atmy career now and think, Oh my
God, you were in marketing.
I was like, I was in plumbing.
Like I was quoting how manytoilets would go into a hotel
like that, where I am now is notthe beginning.
And I think there's so muchpressure that people think

(21:50):
because we've never had moreaccess to viewing your
competitors on a screen right infront of your face 24 hours a
day.
So everyone's thinking, Oh myGod, they've got a head.
They've got this job.
Where am I?
Where am I starting?
Thank God I didn't have that 10years ago.
Like that would have been awhole different world for me.
So with young people now I say,just get in.
Start getting experience, startgetting runs on the board, not

(22:12):
only build your hard skills, butbuild your soft skills.
How do you communicate withpeople?
How do you influence change?
How do you run meetings?
How do you do your one on ones?
How do you send emails?
Like get started and then seehow those doors can open up for
you in the future as well.
And yeah, whether or not that'sa transferable skill or some of
the people in my life, they'vestudied psychology and now

(22:33):
they're electricians.
Never been happier.

Chris Hudson (22:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
I was so Yeah.
I was thinking about thisearlier, because my daughter
who's 12, she sent me, she sentmy wife and an email, right?
And I wondered when, and at whatpoint kids are going to learn
how to write properly, as incommunicate by email, because
obviously if you think aboutthat, and then the world of
work, and people are doing this,and they're saying salutations
this and it's kind regards or asmany things whatever it is.

(22:58):
And our email was just, when'smy Temu order arriving?
And cause we got a Halloweencostume and white, but there's
no guarantee obviously that it'sgoing to turn up.
And yeah, it's like what youwere saying just really
resonated because I think.
Every interaction with somebodyelse, be it spoken or written or
otherwise, or how you run ameeting, as you were saying, is
your opportunity to present yourpersonal brand and really

(23:20):
showcase that and really make ityour own.
Yeah, if we go into that, maybeat a slightly deeper level, have
you got any kind of practicalstrategies around that?
Because I think if you cancreate a DNA almost for how you
work, then that will besomething that you can grow over
your career, right?

Kim James (23:35):
100%.
And I think that I kind offumbled into talking about
personal branding now, mostlyalso because I didn't realize
I'd built a strong personalbrand for years.
It's funny.
It is actually a version of metalking about things last year.
Like, Oh, there's a TikTok Imade, I think 18 months ago.
And I even say the wordspersonal brand.
I didn't even know what that wasback then.
I was just subconsciouslytalking about how your personal

(23:57):
brand is not only externallywhat you post, but it's also
where you are and where youwork.
And it's really about being seenas someone that is a problem
solver.
And I think that's regardless ofwhat role that you're in is
where you can bring that andreally identifying how you can
Take control your career whereyou want to get into it building
really good soft skills So as wesaid running email running

(24:18):
meetings How you communicate viaemail, how you communicate with
one on ones, how you show thevalue of your work or what
you're doing to senior execs andwhat's in it for them is very
important as well.
I was very lucky that when wewere at Reece, we did a lot of
training in like the gradprogram of understanding DISC
profiles.
And so I knew where I was, highI, back at the time.

(24:39):
And then I could actually, like,we got given these cards that
had the different DISC profiles,who they are.
How to speak to them.
So I would read people and Iwould go, okay, this person is
very to the wire, wants thedata, very logical.
So if I was ever communicatingto them, I knew how to
communicate.
So I think if you can readpeople, then you're going to be
able to communicate yourselfstronger to them.

(25:01):
Because whenever you'reinfluencing, changing and
building that personal brand ofyou as that person that it can
seem to do it, it's about peoplebringing people on the journey.
So then on the flip side ofthat, personal branding is
building that presence of youonline.
For many in their career, it'san opportunity through LinkedIn.
Definitely something that's alot smaller here in Australia
compared to internationally.
I speak a lot with people inAustralia that tall poppy

(25:23):
syndrome here is rife.
But then I speak to people inAmerica and they're just so,
part of their culture isnaturally to promote yourself.
So it's just chalk and cheese,but there's just such a missed
conversation that your personalbrand starts in where you are
and where you're working rightnow.

Chris Hudson (25:38):
Yeah.
I mean, I think, yeah, knowingwhere to start.
It was like the first post, thefirst step, the first this or
that, like you're saying, it'sjust doing something right.
Otherwise, you're in with therest or not in with the rest.
And then people might think, whyare you not part of the
conversation or I go through myLinkedIn.
If you're listening to the show,I don't know when was the last
time you basically went throughyour LinkedIn and looked at who

(26:00):
was on that list and how oftenhave you either heard from those
people or communicated with themor showcase something that
you've done to them or had acoffee or whatever.
I think, it's like the smallpercent of people that you have
interacted with or engaged withthere in front of mine, but you
think, Oh, there's this hugeopportunity.
And then you hear that LinkedInonly, Shows only 5 percent of

(26:22):
your group see what you post.
Some algorithmic things thatkind of confuse people, right?

Kim James (26:26):
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
And I think the stat is thatonly 1 weekly as well.
So in Australia, that barrierentry, it's low.
Like I have met a lot of peoplethrough Tik Tok that I catch up
in person.
I have met a lot of peoplethrough LinkedIn that I catch up
with in person.
And I was actually talking tosomeone about it yesterday.
Today.
And we were both saying like thecommunity in Australia is like

(26:47):
so small, especially Australia,New Zealand, that, that
opportunity to be part of it isabsolutely there, but your
personal brand is also somethingthat when you need it will shine
through.
So when we were made redundant,it was told that there would be
obviously information going outto the customers.
So obviously I'd come from whereit was a customer and I was
like, well, I just want to ownthat narrative.
I want to be like, look, andthis was beginning of tech

(27:09):
layoffs.
So like, it was very taboo backthen.
And I was like, you know what?
I just want to own thenarrative.
Did a post on LinkedIn.
This is what's happened.
I'm going to take some timebefore I work out my next role.
My LinkedIn has never workedstronger.
I had people from throughout myentire career coming out of the
woodwork.
People that I even had aninterview with, like when I was
really young in my twenties,being like, we still think about

(27:29):
you and you are awesome.
And if you need any help, youlet us know.
And I was like, wow.
That was my personal brandworking.
And then when I actually startedthis business, I had people
wanting to see the business andalso customers before we'd
launch.
And I actually spoke about itwith someone and he said, you
have a really strong personalbrand because everyone was
talking about you and yourabilities.

(27:50):
Hootsuite before we even metyou, we'd heard about this
person that was coming in.
So I think a lot of it comesdown to not only the hard
skills, but is the soft skills.
And I think that's somethingthat gets really quite
overlooked.
Your hard skills can onlycommunicate and can only be as
effective as your soft skills.
If you are phenomenal at doingyour job, the person that's
going to get promoted or theperson that's going to get the

(28:12):
new role in an interview processis the person that can
communicate.
What they're actually doing thebest and that's where that soft
skills, I feel like cansometimes be a bit of a missed
opportunity if you're somewherethat has to build that with
their team, phenomenal, but alsowhat does that look like for
yourself and building that onyour own accord.
So when you're going for thenext job interview, the business

(28:33):
can go, Oh, wow, you have thehard skills that you were able
to communicate that you cansolve the problems that we need
done.
That's the person that gets thejob.

Chris Hudson (28:40):
Yeah, there's only so much you get from a kind of
written piece.
And obviously there's a lot ofstudies into verbal and
nonverbal communication and howeffective those things are.
But people are getting a loteven from just silence, right?
The non verbalized cues of whatyou're saying can tell you a lot
or trigger a thought aroundconfidence or less confidence.

(29:00):
We know that in our subconsciousthat stuff's happening all the
time.
So yeah, I think, yeah, you'redefinitely right.
There's plenty of stuff that youcan be thinking about.
I suppose I want to come at itfrom the point of view of what
feels like it's okay or safe todo.
Like a lot of people feel likethey're putting their neck out
just by going on to the socialplatform and putting a point of
view out there.

(29:21):
It's all poppy syndrome andsomething that feels like it's
heartfelt and very much in linewith your values that there are
different ways to presentyourself.
And I wondered if you couldmaybe help us explore some of
those.

Kim James (29:33):
Yeah, for sure.
The first place to start isobviously LinkedIn and two parts
of it.
One, having an up to dateLinkedIn profile, that can be
something that's so underratedbefore you even start post up to
date profile.
Great profile picture, coverphoto that explains what you do,
have your about, really clear toyour background and who you are,
any kind of key awards, any kindof projects that you've worked

(29:54):
on and just a really up to datewhere you've worked as well.
That's absolutely step one is anup to date profile.
The second one of it, if you'renot comfortable posting yourself
yet, then comment on otherpeople and start to build a
community doing that.
Commenting on other people'sposts is so underrated on
LinkedIn.
There has been times where Ihave made comments on others and
grown a lot of followersbecause, and I messaged him

(30:15):
like, Hey, how'd you find me?
You're in the UK.
And they're like, Oh, I lovedyour comment on blah, blah,
blah.
I was like, Oh, wow.
So you can absolutely startcommenting on other people,
building that community,building and seeing what they
speak about.
Then once you kind of like donethat, then you can start to
curate.
Content.
So it might've been, this is arecent campaign that's gone on
your insights into something inthe industry, new platform

(30:35):
updates.
A lot of people start there.
Like if you're not sure tocurate create your own, curate
it, curate what's going on inthe industry.
And then the big step is yourown opinions.
That is a hard one.
Like it's scary to kind of getto, but LinkedIn is platform of
networking.
It is like an online networkingevent.
So if you aren't putting thetime into communicating and

(30:55):
connecting with others on theirposts.
They're not going to find you tothen come to your posts.
So you have to put just as mucheffort in.
And I think I, you know, used topost back in the day and the
people that would engage with itwas my direct peers that I would
work with, but it wasn't until Istarted to build a bigger
network.
And then when you go to events,so I was in a network event two
weeks ago.

(31:16):
Those people, we knew eachother.
We were like, Hey, I know you, Imet you online.
And it was just this likesurreal feeling.
Cause sometimes you go tonetworking events and you think,
Oh my God, how does everyonehere know each other?
And like, what am I missing outon?
Is there like something else Idon't go to?
No, it's just because.
They've met online and then theygo, Oh, that's you.
So I had that like experiencelast week.

(31:36):
And honestly, that definitelycame from putting yourself out
there, but it doesn't have to bestarting with your own opinions.
It can be starting withcommenting, curating, and then
your own opinions.

Chris Hudson (31:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's good.
So you can kind of go to thedifferent levels depending on
how far you feel comfortable, indoing that.
That's really cool.
I mean, I think that there's alot of trial and error, it feels
like, and the numbers that youget back can also be really
confronting.
If you feel like you've spenthours right on this post, and
this is how I've been in thisboat, you've probably been in
this boat a thousand times, butyou're curating and crafting

(32:08):
this like tightly worded post.
You think, Oh, this is amazing.
and then it goes out and thenthe numbers come back and you
think, Oh, No, is the numberswatching things sensible or do
you try and stay away from that?

Kim James (32:18):
Oh, I don't pay attention to the numbers until
like 30 days in, especially likelink is now serving a little bit
more older content.
But yeah, the numbers is what'sgoing to trick you up.
Cause realistically you need todo something for a minimum of 60
days posting and just getting itout there because people need to
see more of the feed.
The algorithm needs to know thatyou're turning up a lot more

(32:38):
frequently.
And then I only look at mynumbers on a 30 day thing.
And I'll identify whatconversation the thing about
LinkedIn is.
It's like Instagram back in the2010s, where if you like other
people's things, other peoplecan see what you like.
So when I do posts about this iswhat's happening in the industry
or me, and I did this, I'll getheaps of likes and I'll get

(32:59):
comments if I do things like.
These are the reasons that yourcontent is not authentic because
it's outsourced with your agencyand this is how to bring it back
in house.
People don't want to like thatbecause that's a little bit
controversial.
They probably have an agency.
But that's why I have an email,a LinkedIn newsletter because
with the newsletter, I canactually see how many people
read my article.
So I get over about 110 to 120article reads every week of my

(33:23):
newsletter.
I'll only get 20 likes.
The likes doesn't matter.
It's more about who's reading itand so that's where LinkedIn
themselves at South by Southwestlast week, yeah last week, week
before, they actually had saidfocus on impressions because
people silently consume.
They're not necessarily publiclyliking because back like when
Instagram first launched and allthese like celebrities got

(33:44):
called out because they wereliking and commenting on these
other celebrities posts andyou're thinking oh my god.
That's scandalous.
That's still linked in now.
If you like something and thenyour boss can see it and it will
come up in their feed and go,Oh, this person likes it.
So I definitely wouldn't getcaught up in that.
Where you can also go is yes,the impressions.
And then if you were thenstarting to see people viewing

(34:04):
your profile in that avenue andthen connecting with them, DMs
instead.
Yeah.
You've got to focus on theprivate.
So LinkedIn.
Can feel very difficult at thebeginning because you're not
going to get the level ofengagement that you would on
TikTok and Instagram.
Like you're not going to getthat dopamine hit, but.
over time.
Like I'd probably say I onlystarted to take LinkedIn

(34:26):
seriously about eight weeks ago.
And now I would get double theengagement of what I used to, or
I now get people kind of contactme or have introductory sales
calls.
And they're like, I've beenbinge watched your content.
And I'm like, I didn't even knowbecause someone today commented
and they were like, I love allyour content.
It's top notch.
I was like, wouldn't know.
Don't like it.
So yeah, you never know who'swatching to be honest.

Chris Hudson (34:48):
Yeah, that's it.
You got to be comfortable withcontent enough to be able to put
it out there, knowing that younever know who's watching that
feels like it's stating theobvious, but, uh, yeah, I
suppose the big question for menow around content is around
maybe the quality and maybearound the authenticity of it a
little bit because AI Is kind ofjet propelling any writer and

(35:08):
maker or creator or anyone thatfelt a little less confident now
into the public domain with allthese content creation tools.
And it feels like there's just aswarm of new stuff.
Sometimes you can tell whetherit's generated by AI or not, but
in other cases, you just want tokind of, if there's just more
and more and more and more andmore, then.
Is that going to be too much atany point?
And some people are goingstraight into that with two feet

(35:31):
and other people are thinking,Oh, that's not for me.
What do, where do you sit onthat?

Kim James (35:34):
Yeah.
I always say that AI is going toactually do content creation of
rapid speed and time.
Like when it comes to beingauthentic online, that becomes
the.
Either for you personally, youare speaking from your stories,
your experiences, what you'redoing.
Don't look at the big leads andthen take their opinions and
their stories.
It's not yours.
You have to speak fromauthentically to you, especially

(35:55):
if it's anything in a B2B space,you might be business to
business, but people buy frompeople.
When you're a brand and you'rebuilding that community, that
authenticity is going to comefrom strongly understanding who
your customer is and how yourbrand can be part of their
community and in with it.
Like you're part of theirlifestyle and it feels natural
to them.
That comes from having a verystrong audience piece where AI

(36:18):
is absolutely phenomenal.
I use it every single day isthat it will help you generate
that content at speed andvolume.
So from a LinkedIn perspective,I'm a bit of a waffler and I'm
really good with video.
Written is not anywhere near mystrong suit.
I'm a very much waffler when itcomes to writing.
I will actually work.
I will write my own piece, giveit to LinkedIn and go.

(36:38):
How can this be shorter?
How can this be tighter?
And I actually have trained iton certain of writing
techniques.
So like the problem agitationsolution, or there's like
another one that I use usuallythat to help formulate it into
the format that's quick, easy toread.
And people get something out ofit.
That's easy because that's stillmy authentic idea.
It still came from me.
It's still my experience, butI'm just getting the help and
writing it better.

(36:59):
Or if you're doing anything oflike ads, you need to give
multiple forms of creative.
So you use AI for that.
Where.
I think people get it wrong isthere's a lot of tools now that
are like, don't worry about anidea.
He's 30 just by 30 done for you.
Content ideas, but you end upsounding the exact same and
we're at a point now wherenothing worthwhile is a quick
fix.

(37:19):
there's nothing in life that isa quick fix.
I say to people, one workout inthe gym doesn't make you fit
onehealthy salad is not going tohit your weight loss target.
One piece of content is notgoing to blow you up.
Maybe teach talk in 2020, butTikTok in 2020, those people
have that big following.
They're struggling now becausethere is more people out there

(37:39):
now that are stronger betterquality content, adapting to
where it's going.
Like you can't stay stagnant.
It's probably why I love workingin social because you have to be
on the pulse 24 seven and whereit's changing and evolving, but
what will always stay true isdon't look at trends.
If you don't have thosefoundations set, don't look at
AI.
If you don't know what yourbrand story is because you'll

(38:01):
just get lost in the mass.

Chris Hudson (38:03):
Yeah.
It's interesting.
I think that's maybe a concernfor people is that if it's
moving at such speed and how dopeople stand a chance in, in
keeping up with it?
Right.
you're spending your days andyour weeks doing this full time.
A lot of people in intrapreneursroles are just doing their day
jobs, right?
They don't feel like LinkedIn isthe thing that they have to
obsess over every day and everyminute.

(38:24):
So how do you recommend thatpeople manage it and still
remain relevant?

Kim James (38:28):
I mean, it's like anything that you just want to
dedicate a certain amount oftime to it on a regular day.
So when I started growing ontips up last year, a lot of my
clients were government,everyone was like, we need to be
on TikTok.
Everyone says TikTok.
I had 10 years in Instagram,Facebook, YouTube.
I'd never been TikTok, but Istrongly believe cannot consult
on something if I haven't doneit myself.
So I was like, all right, I gotto get on TikTok.
I force myself every singlemorning or every lunchtime.

(38:51):
You will be posting lucky.
I did work from home, but Icould have done it if I was in
the office anyway.
And I set a habit, like nothing,you're not going to get good at
anything until you sit in aroutine and build that
consistency where it's just partof your day.
So I think there's absolutelythat realistically with
LinkedIn, you don't have topost.
Five times a week.
You don't have to do videocontent.
I think with LinkedIn, thebarrier to entry is the lowest

(39:13):
because you can use images.
You've written posts themselvesgo off phenomenally.
You might have a really clearunderstanding of a few content
pillars.
So what you're known about, whatyou know about, what you like to
talk about, and you might havethose broken up into buckets.
And then you start to get thatcontent out from there.
Set yourself a target.
Do you want to do three posts aweek?
And you could either Bulk dothem one evening or on a weekend

(39:36):
or set a period of time beforeyou start your work day to
engage with others and get onepost out here and there.
But LinkedIn is definitely theeasiest to get onto there.
Like Tik Tok, you need to beposting one to three times a day
to build momentum.
So I say to people like.
Unless you're ready for thatwith video.
Yeah, maybe go to linkedin.

Chris Hudson (39:53):
It's a big step.
Yes.
Yeah, that's cool.
That's cool.
I think I want to just sort ofmaybe walk back to the broader
point here, which is around whyyou would need to do this.
And personal brand is somethingthat we're talking about,
obviously, at the start of theconversation, but a lot of
people would still think thatwithin a comfortable corporate
job somewhere within government,whatever.

(40:13):
I don't need to be on LinkedInor TikTok because they've got a
job and they just need to showup and do the meetings and do
that, do the things.
So I thought, I know the answermyself, but I'd love to hear it
from your point of view.
Why do you think people need todo all of this external facing
personal brand building in thosecases.

Kim James (40:29):
First of all, future proof your career.
I didn't think I was going toget made redundant.
I went and got the dream role inthe dream company.
And I was like, look at me here.
I turned up on a Wednesdaymorning.
There was an email, 30 percentof the company gone.
Here is your meeting.
Got a meeting.
This is what you get.
Computer turns off, you don'texist the day before I was doing
my job.
You can't predict that if youput your career into the hands

(40:51):
of someone else, there will be amonetary and business decision
that has to be made.
We saw people at Google with 25years experience being made
redundant.
So for me, any of these bigpieces is future proofing your
career and this trajectory whereit's in your hands.
So there's absolutely the partof that.
And that comes down to up todate resume, up to date LinkedIn
profile, ready to go whensomeone comes for it.

(41:12):
The other thing is.
I know people now who aregetting jobs because of their
personal brand, who are puttingthemselves out there on LinkedIn
and going, here is me.
I went to this particular event.
I'm talking about it.
They're getting paid extraopportunities.
They're getting a bit of sidemoney, bit of side hustle.
And so when those roles that orthe companies people want to

(41:32):
work out, they're checking yourLinkedIn.
They're looking at it.
And then the third thing is thenext generation know the power
of LinkedIn.
So they are actually talkingabout personal branding on
LinkedIn to university studentsright now.
Like the next generation, Ithink right now we're in like
the 25 to 35.
They're like, I don't think Ireally need it.
Like I'm pretty happy.
I'm always like, it's not AIthat's going to replace your

(41:54):
job.
It's the young person that canuse AI to do the job 10 times
faster that will replace thejob.
So yeah, that's where I'm verymuch like I've been in
situations where.
Your career can change and it'snot because of your control and
you'll always be happy at thattime that you had that personal
brand and that opportunity tostep into a new role.
And yeah, I've seen what that'smade for people, whether or not

(42:17):
that is the new roles that theywant, promotions that they want,
going to events, asked to be onpanels, books, podcasts, the
galore, that those opportunitiesonly happen when your opinions
are online.

Chris Hudson (42:29):
Yeah, I think so.
You only open up thoseopportunities if you do
represent a point of view or youput yourself out there in some
way, because otherwise peoplewouldn't know.
And I think from a, the jobdescription, resume type level,
but even people just writingwhere they worked and what their
title was doesn't say very muchabout what they've achieved or
what they stand for or theyrepresent.

(42:49):
I think they're, like you say,it's softer measures, right?
So how do you get a sense of whosomebody is?
Truly, if that isn't representedonline, I can't believe I'm
saying that because like my 20year old self would have had no
idea.
Right.
But I'm thinking actually, itcan say lots of people like we
were doing this podcast, a fewhundred people might see this or
however many, but they don'thave to meet us to know what

(43:11):
we're all about because we'vehad this chat, it's that kind of
thing.

Kim James (43:14):
A hundred percent, like last year when I was
building my personal brand, Ithink I did at least four or
five podcasts last year.
I was in Business Insider,absolutely in the Daily Mail
twice.
I have been doing paid content,yeah, I didn't mean to, just
went viral on TikTok havingopinions and then ended off in
the Daily Mail.
They do this thing where theymessage you being like, Hey, we
want to write this article aboutyou and then you ignore them and

(43:37):
they write it anyway.

Chris Hudson (43:38):
Okay.
So is that, are you exposingthem again now?
Are we going to get a dailymail, are we going to get a
daily mail call?

Kim James (43:44):
Would you imagine?
Yeah.
And it opened up.

Chris Hudson (43:46):
You were saying before the show, like, what's
the most controversial thing Icould say on the company road
podcast?
What's going to get the clicks?

Kim James (43:52):
What's going to get the clicks, open up that door.
Yeah, no, honestly, I don'teither care for any of that
media.
I got contacted, I think it waslike three weeks ago or
something on one.
And I was like, no, I'm notinterested.
They spin your words.
I'm like, it's not qualityjournalism.
I was Business insider.
That was good.
And that was a piece about,focus on you and your career in
your twenties instead of rushingto become a people manager,

(44:13):
because I felt like in mytwenties, I was rushing everyone
wanted to be this marketingmanager.
It was this thing.
And we were all rushing as fastas possible to get there.
But then you get there andyou're like 26 and you're like,
I don't even know who I am.
Why am I developing otherpeople?
Like, why am I doing peopledevelopment when I know right
now should be building myskillset.
And then I had a lot of peoplereach out with their career over

(44:36):
the last year.
And a lot of people, it wasactually, they became a people
manager too early.
And then now they werestruggling to get another job
because their hard skills wereimpacted because they were
managing teams instead of doingthe doing.
They're like, I can't get a jobnow.
Yeah.
So by the time I hit 30, I waslike, God, we're working for a
long time.
I don't want to do peoplemanagement.
In my twenties, that's not whatI would do.

(44:57):
So yeah, I just said, yourtwenties is for your
development, not developingothers.
And unfortunately it went veryviral.

Chris Hudson (45:03):
Oh, yeah.
All right.
Well, that's the way to get, Imean, that I think standing for
something that's a little bitless known or less popular can
obviously get some attention ifyou've got a point of view.
So don't be afraid to share it.
There'll be people that agree.
There'll be people that disagreeand that's okay.
Right.

Kim James (45:16):
Yeah.
Yeah, a hundred percent and Ithink where I work with people
with their personal brand isactually for their careers and
it's opening in thoseopportunities.
My clients have been lawyers,financial educators, business
owners, founders, people thathave got a story to tell and
that they want to be known inthe industry.
They want to have that influenceand they want that authority.
They're looking at usually a lotof people that are at speaking

(45:38):
gigs, getting books, being onpodcasts and they're going,
well, hang on, why am I doingthat?
And the difference is that theiridentity was in their business,
not who they were as a personand we're seeing that absolute
shift, the future of influencersand influencer marketing will be
personal branding and it will behaving more people speaking
about realistic conversations intheir field and in the industry.

(45:59):
And yeah, I'm excited aboutthat.
I think it's something that isvery prevalent internationally.
Australia, like most things, wekind of take a little bit of
time to get there.
tall poppy syndrome isabsolutely rife, but I say to
people like my client who's anemployment lawyer and TikTok,
she's like the only one inAustralia.
She's absolutely gone off.
She's been in PR, she's beeninterviewed, she's gotten new
clients, opened up new likeproduct lines through being on

(46:23):
TikTok.
I don't know any otheremployment lawyers on TikTok in
Australia.

Chris Hudson (46:28):
Yeah, cool.
So jump in.
Jump in.
Yeah.
I mean, there's a lot of reallygreat stuff in what you've
shared so far.
And I think, from people thatare listening to the show, cause
they're probably thinking aboutwhere they sit in relation to
that personal brand and how muchthey're doing or there's
definitely a guilt factor toseeing a lot, but not.
Necessarily jumping in and doingit what are some of the things
that can either put your guiltto one side or help people feel

(46:51):
less guilty and just getstarted?

Kim James (46:53):
Honestly, it's so funny.
So two parts into it.
I listened to a podcast lastweek and they were talking about
how not taking action is selfsabotage because when you don't
take action, you actuallycontrol the outcome.
So the biggest problem of doingsomething, putting yourself out
there is the uncertainty.
Who's going to see it?
How are they going to react?
Am I going to get cancelled?
Is anyone going to love me?

(47:14):
Will I get any views?
That uncertainty, the only wayto control that is to be certain
in the outcome.
The only way to be certain inthe outcome is to self sabotage
and not take any action.
So no action is actually selfsabotage.
I love that piece of it as well.
The second part of it is that Iknow that I write personal brand
strategies with people for aliving, but I say to a lot of
people that actually just start,I'm like, don't, I saw someone

(47:37):
and it was like, Spend week onereviewing all of your
competitors, spend week twowriting your strategy and then
week three filming.
I said absolutely not becausethe biggest hurdle.
is starting is having that go,putting yourself in front of the
camera, writing, whatever thatis.
If you can build something intopart of your day, you will stick
to it.

(47:57):
So for example, I am now thatit's getting into a lot more, I
wanted to go for a walk for aminimum of 40 minutes every
single morning.
And that first probably week ortwo, I was like, Oh God, I'd
rather just get into my day.
I'm like, you are going for yourwork walk.
That walk is the best part of myday now.
Like I live for that morningwalk with my podcast.
I could not imagine my daywithout it.
So when it comes to that initialpart, it's actually breaking up.

(48:19):
Don't just go, okay, I'm goingto post six times a week.
I'm going to have a strategy.
I'm going to do all this videoediting.
Start with one.
And then start again the nextday and have a goal that you set
that consistency and you'd besurprised how much then you
build that momentum over time.
You get excited by it and youlike it and then someone will
come and go, this is reallygreat.
You're like, Oh my God, I'mgoing to keep going.

(48:40):
But it's like anything in life.
If you set it as too big to do,your brain will not want to do
it again.
Now that's too big.
That's too much of a hurdle toget over.
So yeah, as much as I writestrategies with people, I say to
them, just start, honestly, posta video.
Give it a go because once youget over that hurdle of
yourself, that's the key thing.
And you'd be surprised.

(49:00):
I actually do say to people thatdoing content creation and
putting yourself online, whetherthat's in written or in video
actually significantly increasesyour ability to do your job
because you will be able tocommunicate better.
When you are doing short form,whether written or video, you
have to get your point acrossvery succinctly without the
ramble, without the fluff, andthat will actually help you do

(49:24):
it better.
Also, it will help you takerisks.
So many people have said to me,obviously, that I work with big
corporate.
How'd you, you know, you're sobrave.
How'd you take the risk?
I said, put yourself out onTikTok and you will really see
that like, Life is not thatscary.
I think that was probably thescariest thing that I've done.
And ever since then, I'm like,Oh, a risk is a risk.
Like if I can do that, this'llbe fine.

Chris Hudson (49:43):
Yeah.
And as we know, like we see alot of scary things out on
social media and we don't haveto copy that or we don't have to
put ourselves out there to thatextent.
we're not going to be thatcontroversial in some cases.
So yeah, hopefully whatever youthink and what I think and you
think could be sensible enoughit's within your comfort zone is
the point.

Kim James (50:00):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And honestly, look, I've goneviral multiple times and it is
very overwhelming when ithappens the first time you get
definitely get very stressedabout it.
And then you go viral sometimesand you just attract the
absolute scum of the earth.
Just don't post about anythingto do with Taylor Swift and
you'll avoid that one.
But honestly, all

Chris Hudson (50:18):
the presidential election in the U S just stay
away

Kim James (50:21):
like that.
Yeah, just stay away from it.
But it's funny because I did alot of top of funnel content
last year and I was easily toget virality and to get
followers from it.
But now I actually do a lotmiddle of the funnel and I
actually do a lot more longerform.
Lot more of what I'm doing a lotmore behind the scenes.
I love playing in that littlespace.
And I'm like, I don't need thewhole piece of the world.
I just want to create my littlespace and my little nest.

(50:43):
And I have that.
And I talk about burnout.
I talk about careers.
I talk about personal brandingon like.
That's my other side and I getpeople then do message me and
how they're going.
And so going viral is not goingto change your life.
There is a lot of people thatwill go viral and nothing will
happen the next day.
I went viral multiple times andI didn't become a millionaire

(51:04):
out of it.
It didn't open up significantopportunities.
It grew following and it grew acommunity.
But I had to continue to keepposting.
So going viral.
Yeah, I don't know.
I think we've kind of built itup to be this thing that's the
facade, but realistically a morejust genuine, really engaged
community that you feel likeyou're having conversations with
is absolutely key.

(51:25):
So that's what I focus more on.
If I go viral, it's a byproductof, wow, like hit something that
people really relate into, butit's not something that I go
for.
And I think that with contentyou can tell if someone's trying
to go viral.

Chris Hudson (51:38):
Yeah, I think you're right.
Yeah, there's a lot of staginggoing on.
You can see through it, usually.
sometimes you just gotta say,okay, it's stage, and it's
really quite good.
I really enjoyed that.
But, doesn't always happen.
Doesn't always happen.
Viral definitions, have theychanged over the years?

Kim James (51:53):
I would say that it's more that they're, the
expectation of viral haschanged.
So I remember years ago, Didthis campaign with some like
football stars and we got like ahundred thousand video views and
that was the equivalent of amillion.
Now like a hundred thousand thenwas like, whoa.
And whereas now, a viral videois in the millions.
You would never have gotmillions back then.

(52:14):
But I think also throughout timewe've kind of got decentralized
to how many people.
We're seeing something likeright now a bad video is 400
people.
Could you talk to 400 people?
400 people saw your video.
Like I think that's stillphenomenal.
Like if you hit a hundredthousand video views, that's the
MCG.
Hey, so I work with some clientsand I just like take them back

(52:35):
down.
I'm like, Oh, we're only gettinga thousand views.
I'm like a thousand people thatare engaged, that actually like
your content, that could be apotential buyer is much better
than a million that are nevergoing to buy from you.

Chris Hudson (52:45):
I mean that's all super useful.
Is there anything that kind ofjumps out as being like a piece
of advice that has really eitherhelped you or that you often say
to your clients?
So, there's a place to start interms of assessing where you're
at.

Kim James (52:57):
In terms of your personal

Chris Hudson (52:58):
presence.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kim James (53:00):
Yeah, I think from a personal branding perspective
for individuals, it's reallyidentifying what platforms that
you could start on, how youcould be consistent with it and
yeah, your knowledge, yourskills and your interests and
your knowledge, skills,interest.
I feel like I'm missing a fourthone now.
That's all right.
It will come to me another time.
That's that'll basically do it.
Yeah.
That is basically what we'll setfor what you want to speak

(53:23):
about.
And as I said, start off withthat engaging with others.
Curating a bit of content.
And when you're ready for it, gointo the opinion piece.
And it can be something thatbuilds over time.
Personal brands is not somethingyou do of a one off.
Like I have been working withclients in a monthly piece.
Now I'm working with clientsmore on either a four, six or a
nine month, because this is along game.

(53:44):
I didn't go viral and like startto even find what I want to talk
about for eight months.
So, There's an element of thatyou're going to get disheartened
if it doesn't happen right away,but like, that's the normality.
I think we've kind of lost that.
You're going to build thispersonal brand.
Everyone's going to come andit's going to happen instantly.
But realistically, if you askanyone to be like, I've been
posting for three years, so itis a long game as well.

(54:06):
But yeah, don't underestimatethe power of that personal brand
internally where you are workingnow as well.
And a lot of that will also comefrom building those soft skills
to communicate your hard skills.

Chris Hudson (54:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Really good advice.
Thank you so much, Kim, forcoming onto the show.
And, uh, yeah, we, we packed alot in.
So I really appreciate youcoming on to chat and yeah, if
people want to get in touch,they've got a question or I just
want to say, hi, I'll followyou.
We'll see what that.
See what the thing on TikTok wasall about where do they find
you?

Kim James (54:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, you can find me onLinkedIn, Kim Elizabeth James.
That's just my middle name.
Actually.
It's not that I go by that astwo first names.
It's just that from an SEOperspective, you'll always find
me if there's all three names.
So yeah, I'm on LinkedIn thereand on TikTok and Instagram is
the career girl diaries, whichis, yeah, basically where I just
started building a bit ofnavigating your career in a way.

(54:52):
Being someone that's careerdriven, building a personal
brand.
And I say to people, know yourworth and own, own your path.
So yeah, that's where you canfind me if you've got any
questions.

Chris Hudson (55:01):
Perfect.
Absolute pleasure.
Thanks so much for coming on theshow.
Thank you, Kim.

Kim James (55:04):
Appreciate it.

Chris Hudson (55:05):
All right.