The Case for Rec Ball

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to the Complete GamePodcast where we're all about baseball
with Ethan Dungan, owner ofGlovehound Baseball glove repair
shop. Rick Finley, founder ofMdni Baseball Academy and the creator
of George Foster Baseball, theMVP himself, Reds hall of Famer George
Foster. I'm your host, GregDungan. Now let's talk baseball.

(00:25):
All right, fellas, welcome toepisode 10.
10. Oh, we're moving on downthe road.
10 episodes. Did you everthink we'd make it to 10?
No, but with you at themoderator. Oh, we're doing a great
job.
All right, well, today we'regoing to be making the case for rec
ball, recreational baseball,and not Rick ball.

(00:48):
Rick Ball.
Rick ball.
Rick ball.
The average human couldn'tsurvive Rick Ball. Too intense.
Yeah, it would be, but we'regonn. But fun.
We're going to take a look atmaking the case for rec ball. So
I'm going to start out by sortof painting what I call a basis of
reality. Okay. Every playerfrom the time they start five, six

(01:11):
years old, first, you know,you get your T ball and your coach
pitch and all that, all theway up until they finish playing.
Somewhere along the line, inmy case, it was early. He then made
it to high school. You made itbeyond that. George played in the
pros.
Majors. Not just the pros.
Major. That's right.Technically, yeah, Technically, minors
are pros. You're right. So, sosomewhere along the line, you make

(01:37):
the decision that, okay, I'm,I'm either just going to play for
fun or I'm going to be part ofthe team, part of the sport, not
as a player, whatever. Butyou, you make that time. You call
it, you say, okay, my timestriving for the next level of playing
is, is over. I'm going tofocus on. And, and so we're going

(02:02):
to talk about what the realityis and when people make that decision.
So I wanted to offer some,some statistics. I went and found
these. These were from 23,2023, 20, 24. So like that school
year, okay, in those years,16,500,000 people would play baseball

(02:23):
in the United states. Okay? So16 and a half million players in
the United States now going onto High School. 473,000 of them would
go on to high school. That's 3%.
That's a drastic drop.
3%. So if you're, if youplayed in high school, you're already

(02:43):
in the top 3% of baseballplayers. Okay? So onto college from
473, 000 goes down to 38, 849.
Whoa.
Okay. That means that thenumber of people who played in college
versus the number of peoplewho played overall is 0.2%. We are

(03:07):
now under 1% when we get tocollege. So if you played baseball
in college, you are.
Yeah.
You are more than 99 ofeverybody else.
Now, does that considerationthe levels, any level of college
baseball, is that correct?
Yes, that's it. Okay. Anylevel of college baseball. Then we're
going to break that down. Just.

(03:27):
Okay.
All right, so you're alreadyin the. The less than 1 percenters.
Okay, so then let's say you goon to play in the minor leagues.
In the minor leagues, therewere 4, 000 people who played in
the minor leagues that year.Wow. 4,000. So if you go back to
the original 16 million 500.Okay. Of those 16 million 500, it's

(03:47):
0.022%.
While if people look at. Ifthat's a pay cut, that's a drastic
amount.
Yeah.
So what. So you got, you gotto. 1, 10 of the people who played
in college would play in theminors. And of course, some people
who play in the minors didn'tplay in college. And somebody. There's,
there's lots of different,different scenarios there, but we're

(04:08):
just kind of. For the sake ofhaving some numbers. Okay, so then
that year there were 615players drafted.
Whoa.
Okay, so out of that 4, 000 inthe. In the minors, 615 were drafted.
Okay. Then in the total, Majorleague baseball in 20, 23, 24. Okay,

(04:31):
well, it would have been the24 season, I guess. There were 1200
players in major leaguebaseball. Okay, that is.01% of the
16 million five. One tenth. No100th of 1%.

(04:52):
That's elite.
That's who plays in the majorleagues. Now let's go. Let's go a
step further than that,George, because you're not done yet.
So if in the major leagues inany given year there's a National
League MVP and an AmericanLeague mvp, the chances of being
either one of those people is0.17% of the 1200 people who are

(05:17):
playing in the major. So nowof all the guys playing in the major,
of all the guys playing in themajors, okay, less than 1% get to
be MVP. Okay, now let's goeven further than that. To lead the
entire league in any onecategory. Home runs, RBIs, stolen

(05:39):
bases, whatever you are.08% ofall the people in the majors.
That's exclusive.
Wow.
So then we look at so then youlook at something.
Give me some respect, man.
So now we look at George'scareer. You got a guy who not only.
Not only made it through,through regular ball, through high

(06:02):
school ball, through collegeball, through minors, into the majors.
He is the elite of the elite.And he was the National League mvp.
He led the league in home runsmore than once. RBI is more than
once. As 0.08% of all the guysplaying in the major leagues. That's,

(06:22):
that's absolutely elite, my friend.
Standouts stand out.
So kudos to you. That is so.
Thanks for talking about me.
Yeah, that is quite the. Yeah,that is quite the. The career. Now
then when you start addinglike World Series and things like
that, I.
Mean, I need those numbers.

(06:43):
So like, you, you were part ofworld. Multiple World Series winning
teams.
Yes.
But then you were even in theWorld Series more times than that
because you were part of teamsthat went but didn't win that year.
Yeah, I'm tired fromlistening. I know. I did all that
work.
So. Yeah, so that's, that'show, that's how, how tiny that population

(07:05):
is. Now let's go and look atjust college. So let's say you make
it to college. You're. You'rein the. Within the top 1%. You're
point 2% of all. Of allplayers, and you're going to college.
Out of that, 38,849 players,okay. 12,120 of them will play Division
1. That's 31% of all collegeplayers will play Division 1. Okay.

(07:31):
Now, in Division 1, theaverage baseball scholarship is $14,270
a year divided. Okay. $14,270per year. Okay. And so when you add
that up for four years, it's$57,080. That sounds like a lot of

(07:51):
money, doesn't it? Okay. Theaverage tuition to a D1 school is
41,000 per year.
Right.
Okay. This means that youraverage baseball scholarship covers
35% of the cost of yourcollege. So you could go to college,
play baseball four years on a scholarship.

(08:13):
It's still.
And graduate, and you wouldonly owe $106,920 only.
Yeah.
So you are in debt.
But that's one of the reasonsthat some guys don't go to college.
They don't have the monies or the.
Grades or go juco. Yeah. Whichis cheaper, right?
Yeah. So then let's, let'stake this one step further. Okay,

(08:34):
so let's say you, you went toDivision 1, you played like A guy
like Mike Matheny. MikeMatheny was drafted, but he chose
to go to Michigan and play incollege. Okay, so he went and played
in college. Then he went on.Then he went on to the majors. Okay,
so let's say you played incollege, but. And now you're going
to go on to the minors. Allright? So you're. You're even smaller.

(08:55):
One tenth of the guys aregoing on. You're going on to the
minors. Okay? So out of rookielow a, high A, double A, triple A.
So five levels of the minors,okay? The average salary, if you
take and add up all thoserates and you divide by five, the
average salary is $27,870.Okay, now $27,870 if you have to

(09:21):
make that school loan payment.Let's go back and look at that school
loan payment. So that schoolloan payment for $106,920 at 6.53%
interest, which is what thecurrent rate is for 10 years, which
is what the current term is,makes your payment $1216.60.
This is a good finance class.
So now per month you have topay 1,216 doll, and per month you

(09:48):
make $2,322.50. So after youmake your average minor league salary
and you pay your student loanbill, you have $1105 and 90 cents
to live on. When you. When youmultiply that out, you're making
$6.43 an hour, man. Okay,yeah, $6 and 43 cents an hour. And

(10:14):
out of that, $6.43 an hour,you have to put gas in your car,
buy clothes, buy food and pay rent.
And the agent get his cut. Andthe tax man.
Yeah, we haven't even paidtaxes, right? We haven't even talked
about gross.
About.
Yeah, so. So when you look atthis and you go, okay, not only do
you have to play hard, youhave to stay healthy, get hurt, which

(10:37):
there's that risk all the wayup through all of this. You play
all these rec years, you playhigh school, you get a big.
Bonus, signing bonus, andyou're still.
You played college, you stillhaven't had Tommy John or some craziness.
And then you go on and youplay in the minors and you still
have survived and you haven'tgone completely broke, and you're
still. And then finally youmake it. That's why the percentage
is this big. It's very, very,very tiny. Okay? Now, I don't say

(11:02):
that to stomp on anybody's.
Dream reality.
I don't do that at all. Andyou may be a person who is going,
you know, major leagues arebust and I'm going to give it everything
I got and if so, go for it,man. Go for it. Give it everything
you got. Just realize what thereality is that is.
That's great numbers. I liketo say I need to write that down.

(11:23):
Just when I'm not only talkingto the kids, but letting them know
what, what they're confrontedwith and what they have to deal with.
And that's going to make adecision right there, what you want
to do. Have a kid that hecould. I said if you get drafted
in baseball, okay, gobaseball. If you don't get drafted,

(11:43):
go go to college and play football.
Why?
Because you're going to getthat Neil money. You're getting paid
really to go to college.
Right.
But in baseball, like yousaid, the scout, there are very few
scholarships and then the onesare there are very small compared
to the to which you have topay. So. But a lot of parents, a
lot of kids don't understand that.
I think the parents, ifanything, they need the education

(12:04):
on that part because now allthe pressure that is put on them
on these kids moving up andmoving up and that puts a lot of
pressure and anxiety on theparents too, because they're the
ones that's for the bill.
Yeah. If they knew the numbersthat Greg had put out there.
Yes.
And now they have a budget,have an idea. But right now they're

(12:25):
looking at, okay, it's money,but it's too general.
Yes.
What type of monies that arecoming in.
Yeah. So like when you, whenyou get into the, the minors as a
rookie, I put these fivelevels down here. When you get into
the Miners as a Rookie, you'remaking $9.50 an hour. When you get
there, if you're in, in thetop of triple A, you're only making
like $13 and 50 cents an hour. Okay.

(12:46):
So crazy.
It's, it's playing for thelove of the game.
It's not a lot of money. So.
Yeah.
So the point that I'm makinghere is that the vast majority of
players will make thatdecision to play for fun or be a
part of it some other way.They're going to play club ball,
they're going to playsoftball. They're going to, they're
going to do, they're going todo some other form. They're going

(13:07):
to be part of the game someother way. They will make that decision
by High School, 97% of themwill make that decision by high school.
Okay. Then by college, 99% ofthem, more than 99% of them will
have made that decision.
99% of the 97.
Yeah. So 9.
The 3%. Yeah.
Yeah. So the very. The vastmajority, by far, okay. 99 plus kids

(13:33):
out of 100 will have made thedecision to play for fun, just be
a fan, whatever they're goingto do before college. So when we
think in terms of recreationalbaseball programs and select and
travel baseball programs, thisis what I'm going to throw out to
you here in a minute, which isthe prevailing thought is I get to

(13:57):
10, 11, 12 years old. If I'mgoing to continue to develop, I have
to move from rec ball toselect ball or travel or travel ball
in order to play againststiffer competition beyond teams
where coaches are actuallygoing to try and develop my skills
further, or I need to say, I'mjust basically going to play organized

(14:19):
sandlot and have a good time.Okay. Nothing wrong with either of
those decisions.
No.
Okay. But if you're going tomake the decision, okay, so we're
going to invest the money,we're going to try and develop more
as a player, we're going tojoin the select league, we're going
to travel, we're going to doall these tournaments, we're going
to do all this stuff. Okay.What's the end goal? Is it to play
in high school? Because. Okay,that's fine.

(14:41):
Right.
You're going to be part of thetop 3%. If you make it there, that's
good. Okay. And that dependsalso on your location. If you're
in a small town and the talentpool is small, then maybe more than
97, you know, maybe more than3% make it to high school because
there just aren't that manybaseball players.
Or even geography, dependingon how far north or south. Yeah.
I mean, it could.
There's.
And this is not, you know,this is not true across the board,

(15:02):
everywhere. This is just basicstuff. Okay.
Averages.
Yeah. So. So you, you mightwant to. If you, if you're going
to strive for that, that'sfine. Otherwise you could say, you
know what, in another threeyears, I'm going to make this decision.
So it might make more sense tomake this decision now and say, you
know, I'm just going to keepdoing this and play for fun and I'm

(15:24):
going to concentrate on whatit is I want to do when I grow up
or what kind of job I want tohave, what kind of career I Want
to go after a different hobbyor whatever. It's okay for baseball
to be something you do forfun. That's the thing I want to get
across. It's okay. You are nota lesser player or a lesser person
because you decided at 12years old that I really like baseball,

(15:44):
but I don't want to devote mywhole life to it. So I'm going to
just play for fun and then I'mgoing to do, you know, lots of other
things.
But they said that realitycheck. But it's going to help with
the parents making thedecision because that, that's a lot
of money they're investingwith these select team or travel
team. So now looking at thekids being able to go say to, to
Rick Academy and getevaluated, I mean, and that's important

(16:09):
because now you're looking atputting monies into a commodity.
Your, your, your son or yourdaughter. Okay, is it, is it worth
it? I mean, are you going toget the return of. On your investment
in your investment?
Yeah.
So because you're looking atthe monies you're putting in now,
will you get it back? And nowyou're going looking at high school,
looking at college. There'sstill expenses that are involved.

(16:32):
So like I say, are we going toget your return on in the investment?
So the parents got to look at that.
Well, the other thing too isask yourself. Another way to look
at that is ask yourself whatyou're buying. So if you say, okay,
I'm, you're. I'm going to payan average of 500 to $750 a year
for my kid to play selectball. Sometimes more than that. If
the, if it's a prestigious.

(16:53):
That's.
Yeah, that's one, maybe 1/4.
Yeah.
Yes.
Because my team, I try to haveit as low as possible. It's around
$300. And I knew other teamswere charging at least $3,000. And
like where's the money going?
Right?
So I mean the, the, the, the.It's all over the board. But if,
if you're, you're going toinvest the time to invest for the,

(17:16):
to go to the, the tryout,you're going to pay the team fees.
You're also going to use aprivate teacher because you know
at that level you need to usea private teacher in order to continue
the development and fill. Teamcan't be your development because
the team can't be the completedevelopment of every player. Even
if the, even if the coach isvery, very good or even if the parent

(17:39):
has a lot of Experience.You're going to want a private teacher.
So you got your plan. You'repaying to play on, on the team. You're
paying a private teacher.You're, you're putting a lot of time,
Your time is very important.You're putting a lot of time in this.
Your child's putting a lot oftime in this. They're, they're doing
those late night homeworks andthere's all that so they can go to
practice and do all thisstuff. Okay, Everybody's making this,

(18:01):
the, the, the, the sacrificefor this, for what's the goal? When,
when Ethan went through this,I said, what's the goal? He said,
I want to play in high school.So here's what I did. You don't know
that I did this, but here'swhat I did. I sat back truth. And
I said, set you free. I satback and I added the numbers up and
I said, okay, if we pay thismuch to play select ball every year,

(18:24):
and we pay this much forprivate lessons and we play this
much, if I could right now,today, buy him a spot on the high
school team, would I pay thisamount of money to do it? And I said,
yes, I would. Okay, if I couldbuy right now, put down what the
next three years is going tocost me, if I could put that down

(18:44):
right now and know that he wasgoing to have a spot on the high
school team, would I do it?Sure. I would do that for him.
How many parents did, did whatyou did?
Very few.
And the other part is the factof I wouldn't tolerate the money
that I say having my kid to beon select team, I wouldn't tolerate
him sitting on the bench.

(19:04):
Right.
Yeah, I, because he has to goto another team. I mean, I wouldn't
tolerate paying that money forhim to sit on the bench. It's talking
to the coach that in a sense,guaranteed that he's going to play.
And I would make it so thatwith these teams that the coach has
to play these players, I mean,like in the Little League World Series,

(19:28):
everybody has to play. Maybenot as much, but they have to play.
And that's the one thing thatI really focus on when I had a team
is making sure everybody played.
I agree.
They're not, they're not thereto sit and spectate. They're there
to play.
Even at the pro level. I mean,Sparky didn't win games with just
nine guys.
Yeah.
You know, he won a game with awhole team full of guys.

(19:50):
Right.
And now all those, all thoseguys didn't play all the time but
they did play something.
They had a role.
Yeah. Everybody had a job andyou won the team with all of those
guys.
And but when you start tospecialize, you know the college
and made pro ball and majorleague ball, then, then you start
to get have role players.
Right.
And somewhat now been a PO butstill seeing what that kid can do.

(20:13):
Yeah.
And but with my team it's,it's not call select but I, I try
to play against bettercompetition to see what they could
measure what they could do andso a kid, I knew that he didn't swing
the bat well but he had a goodarm. So and but still I worked with
him on the hitting aspect ofit so that he could develop and grow.

(20:34):
Yeah. That's what I did withthe mdni. So I left. I can't say
that I left travel baseballbut I just came down a little bit
and took certain rec playersagain and started a developmental
program. But we did play at ahigher level probably I would say
between gold and a lower tiertravel baseball and just challenging

(20:58):
them because now from between13 and 15 this is where kids are
on a bigger field and theyneed to, to understand how the game
is played now. And so myselfcoaching at this higher level and
coming down actually made itfun for me to and kind of encourage
the kids to have fun butcontinue learning the game too. So

(21:19):
you've got that balance there but.
That element you want to haveall the time but as far as having
fun and that opens the doorfor you can relax and learn but you
don't feel when you say havefun, you don't feel that putting
undue pressure on yourself.
And that's probably why forthose two years I didn't have no

(21:40):
turnover. Kids got better whenthey got to high school again. That's
the, that's the, the process.If they wanted to play in high school,
this is what it's going totake to play at high school. And
we're and for me againcoaching at the travel baseball level,
I wasn't afraid to playagainst those top teams because we're

(22:01):
not chasing rings and.
Right.
And all of that type stuff. Soit's I think selling appearance on
the process and the kids onthe process.
Right.
You know, but you put it givethem numbers like gray.
Those numbers are awesome.
It makes, it makes sense. Ithelped them make a decision. Okay,
now you're here and so youwant to put the money into being

(22:23):
on the select team but yourkid's not playing compared to take
those monies and go into aprivate instructor to help them to,
in a sense, leapfrog to get there.
Yeah, well, that's. And that'sthe thing. So, like, I. I knew that
if Ethan was going to play inhigh school, that not only was he.
We were going to need a teamexperience, but he was going to need

(22:43):
a private instructor. Andthat's where I took him to Rick.
And so Rick was the best moneyI ever spent when it came to that,
because.
Thank you.
It was. It was a continuedintensive development that filled
in the gaps and made sure thathe was ready to go to play high school.
Well, because if I had reliedon the instruction given by. By the

(23:05):
coaches of any given team Iwas on, I would never. I don't think
I would have ever made it tohigh school because I was on a different
team every year. Which, whichwas. Which was challenging, but the
instruction was just all overthe place in terms of quality. And
like we've talked aboutbefore, everybody has their own philosophy.
So to have one constant, youknow, while this was all changing,

(23:26):
that made a huge difference.
So, I mean, you can even lookat this. So if you take the thought
process that I used to dec.Not we were going to go forward toward
him playing high school, Isay, you know, if I could pay this
amount right now and guaranteeplayed in high school, would I do
it? Yes, I would. Okay, fine.So let me ask you this. When. When
he was looking at playing incollege and Ethan could have played

(23:47):
in college, there's no doubtin my mind.
Yeah.
When he was like, dad, I justdon't know if I want to try and go
play in college. You know,some of my buddies are going and
they're going to play, and Ithink maybe I would. And I said,
let me ask you this. If youcould. If I could tell you that you
could go to college and youwould be on a team for four years
and you would play every nowand then because he was a pitcher

(24:10):
mostly at that point in time,you'd be on a pitching staff, so
you'd play every now andagain. And, and you could do that
for four years and it wouldonly cost you $107,000. Would you
do it? And he said, no.
I said, oh, what's wrong withyou, dad?
There's your answer.
Yeah, well, I'll take you intothe kind of. What I was thinking
at the time is like, I. I knewhow much college costs, and I just

(24:34):
wasn't sold on the idea of it.And I remember I was in the Kitchen
talking to one of my buddy'sdads. And he was like, oh, yeah,
you know, he's gonna. We'regoing on a couple visits. He's gonna
try to do this. And I waslike, man, I just. I just don't know.
He's like, yeah, but, youknow, you only get to play baseball
for so much of your life, and,you know, you get to say that you
played college baseball.What's that worth? And I didn't say

(24:56):
anything, but in my head, I'mlike, just not worth that much to
me, man. Yeah. And he went on,and. And he's. He's played college
baseball, and that's awesome.He's got that experience. I was just
like, man, I don't know. Sothen it became, you know, I understood
how much work goes into it,and I'm. I don't have any problem

(25:17):
working hard if the reward issomething that I want and makes sense.
The more I thought about it, Iwas like, it's not that I don't want
to work hard. It's. I don'twant that reward. I don't want that
reward of that experience ofgetting to play college baseball,
you know, especially becauseit's so uncertain of how much you
do or don't play. And I waslike, I. I think I want to work hard

(25:40):
for something else.
Well, let me put this to you.So you're talking about $107,000
of debt for 10 years. Okay?Now, $107,000. I did some. I did
a little bit of math withthis. Okay? $107,000. Now, you're.
You're a young man who'smarried. You've got one child. You
got another one coming here in.
A few weeks, any minute.

(26:03):
And. And so you know therealities of. Of early life and paying
for a mortgage and paying forcars and paying for. Okay, $107,000
is a really nice, reliablevehicle. A hefty down payment on
a house and a decent amount in savings.
Yeah, right.

(26:23):
It's a start in life, a goodstart, good salvations. You are a
good start in the hole just toplay college baseball.
So then. So. So whatcomplicates this even more then is
Covid, because that happenedright before my junior season. And
so it got to the point in highschool where, you know, we would

(26:45):
be in some of these teammeetings after a tough loss and the
coach is giving us a dose ofreality is like, you know, you guys
aren't at the level you're at.You're not playing college baseball.
I don't see the effort out. Idon't see this. And I'm like, yeah,
but I don't want to. And thenI was like, am I even in the right
spot? And so that was kind ofjust a lot going on. And then, you
know, Covid confusingeverything. And then my 17U season,

(27:08):
I took a PO role, and it was.It felt pointless because it was
hard because I hadn't. WhenCovid happened, I worked. I didn't.
I didn't practice baseballbecause there was no organized practice,
and I was. I was moreconcerned with making money than
practicing baseball, you know,And I. And there were kids that took
it upon themselves to dedicatethemselves and. And continue to work

(27:31):
out, and that was awesome.They were way ahead of me by that
point. And so I took a POrole. I pitched every once in a while,
and it just. It seems. Silly.
Waste of your time.
Yeah, it was. And. And itwould have been better spent playing
multiple positions andenjoying it. And then 18, you. You
know, I. I finished highschool a semester early, and there's

(27:55):
that opportunity to play, youknow, your last. You know, your last
year. And I didn't even playbecause I was like. I didn't. I wasn't
sure if there was anopportunity to play without going
super hard for the collegelevel. And I was like, I'm not there,
so I must not fit in. And Iprobably could have found somewhere
to play, and I would haveenjoyed it. So I wish I had done
that. But. But. But talkingabout, you know, just the debt of

(28:20):
it.
Yeah, right.
My wife and I graduated highschool with no debt. We were very
fortunate to not have carpayments. We don't have any school
payments, and, you know, welive very skinny, and we're very
happy doing it.
We made a great decision.
And so it was hard at thetime, and it's. It's. It was disappointing
because it meant the end of mybaseball career. But I. There's no

(28:43):
doubt in my mind it.
Was the right decision or itwas a trans. It was the transcendence
of your baseball career,because then he went on you. You
played softball a little bit,and you've done some other things.
It was. It was the hardest onyour mother. Yeah, she loved going
to baseball. She can't waitfor Luke to play baseball so he can
go back to baseball games.That's cool.
Cool.
But let me offer you a littleanother qualifier, which is all of

(29:07):
these numbers that I've givenyou only take into consideration
players in the United States.None of them take into Consideration
anybody coming from Asia,South America, Central America, think
about how many players Canadamake it all the way to the top, down
under, all the play to the topand didn't it aren't even part of

(29:28):
this pool. So that 1200 peoplein the major leagues is actually
diluted even more than mynumbers because many of them didn't
come from the United States.
But you find that major leagueteam owners, they're looking at the
same thing. So they're goingto Latin America to get players that
are ready, ready to play sothey don't have to put a lot of investment

(29:52):
in that player to develop. Andyou find that you look at teams now,
you, it's like, does he speakSpanish? Does he speak English? So
most of the team, which is,I'm not talking against it, but they're
Latin players because they're,they're developed and they don't
have to put as much investmentin that kid. So you don't find a

(30:15):
lot of American kids playingon a major league level because they
have to go through the minorleagues. And, and a lot of minor
league teams have been cut out.
Yes, they've been cut since.
So. But my, my taste ofreality came my first year in pro
ball. I was in Medford, Oregonand so happened I ended up hitting

(30:37):
well and had a good year thatyear. And then now I'm said, okay,
I'm looking forward to nextyear. Then the coach said, you know,
some of you guys won't be herenext year. And like, what are you
talking about? I'm thinkingthat you're going to get. They're
going to give you at leastthree years to show what you can
do. And guys are. Theirbenefits were. Okay, when is the

(30:57):
game over so we can go out andparty? So I love playing, I love
being a part of baseballbecause I can go out and party. But
in my case, this is what Iwant to do. I want to play baseball.
And I don't know what levelI'm going to get to but like in Ethan's
case, I'm going to work hardto get there. But once he said, some
of you guys are not going tobe here next year. And reality set

(31:20):
in. So you gotta go out thereand put up good numbers. If not,
you're gonna find your chef at home.
So you finished the seasonlast year exhausted from all the
travel and the tournaments,and you tossed your gear in a bag
where it's been sitting allwinter. Now you're ready for another
year. But your favorite glovethat fits just right is an error
waiting to happen. The leatheris dry, the laces are brittle, and

(31:41):
this year you're on a new teamwith new colors. And it sure would
be cool if it matched well.Wouldn't it be great if you had a
glove guy who could help youout with that? You do. His name is
Ethan and he owns Glovehoundbaseball glove repair shop in Fairfield,
Ohio. Just contacthim@glovehound.com and upload pictures
of your glove. He'll give youa call back to talk it over and then
you can send it in for arepair. Relays, recondition, whatever

(32:04):
you need. If you're in thearea, you can even just stop by the
shop. That way you don't haveto bother with shipping. And a lot
of times he can even fix itwhile you wait. Rawlings, Wilson,
Mizuno, All Star, Nakona, he'sseen them all. And he's helped players
at all levels, from beginnersto pros. Last year he worked on a
glove that Jose Trevino usedin the World Series. And he can help

(32:25):
you, too. You can findGlovehound on Google, Facebook, Instagram,
YouTube and on theweb@glovehound.com you're only going
to get busier. So reach outtoday and give your glove the love
it deserves at Glovehound.That's very, that's a very good point,
George. And, and let me, letme take us a little further down
the road here and say, give usa couple of scenarios. So there are

(32:47):
some, some players, they getinto a, they get onto a select team.
It's a great bunch of kidswith a good coach and they hold together
and they play with that teamfor a number of years and the team
does really well. And thenthey play in high school and they
have a great baseballexperience. This is my son in law,
okay? My son in law had agreat select baseball experience

(33:08):
and he's a good, to this day,he's a very good baseball player.
Okay. He was a really goodyouth baseball player. Had a great,
a great experience. Those arefew. Okay, Let me tell you what happens
more often than that. Moreoften than that, you leave and you
go be part of a selectbaseball team and you. It's coached

(33:34):
by some guy whose son is onthe team because he took the team
so that he could guaranteethat his son would continue to play.
Right.
I was even one of these guysonce, okay? So I didn't, I didn't
go the direction I'm about todescribe. But yes, I did coach some
teams. I coached fall ball tomake sure that Ethan could keep playing
in the fall and keepdeveloping. He was also studying

(33:55):
with Rick at the time, and Iwas just trying to give him time
on the field to practice thethings that Rick was teaching him
and, and kind of go thatroute. But sometimes you get in the
select team and the, the, theperson's, the, the guy coaching it,
his son plays, and sometimeshis son plays the same team as. Plays
the same position as your son,and your son is a better at that
position than his son. Butyour son is not going to play because

(34:17):
his whole point of doing theteam in the first place was to make
sure his son plays. So Idon't, I don't fault him that. But
now you're on a team andyou're three weeks in, a month in
before you really figure itall out. And now you're like, oh,
so we're not going to play?Okay, well, now, okay, so then you
jump to another team the nextyear and another team the next year.
We did this team after teamafter team, and we kept landing on

(34:38):
these teams where this kepthappening over and over and over
again. So, you know, here'sEthan. He's developing, he's going
to Rick. He's getting better,he's getting some playing time, but
he's, he's struggling to, tobreak through into this regular starting
line kid, new kid. So thenthat's one scenario. So then he gets
to high school and thank God,if he hadn't had a private teacher,

(35:02):
he would not have been readyto put up numbers enough to get on
the high school team.
So, and that was even its ownweird thing because I started, I
tried out to be a catcher,became a PO and a dh, and then by
the time my sophomore yearcomes around, I'm playing third base,
but I just didn't play a fieldposition for the previous season.

(35:24):
So I was very unprepared toplay the field my sophomore year.
Because your stick kept, keptyou in the lineup.
So then there's, here'sanother, here's another scenario.
Another scenario is you comeup through Youth Baseball. You're
11, you're 12 years old, youwant to play in high school, but
you're convinced that if youdon't play for the right select or

(35:45):
travel team, if you don't playfor the right natural disaster or
the right predatory animal,okay, you're going to. The coach
will never look at you in highschool and you'll never get a shot,
right? So you don't havecredentials. I want to play on some
Team with notoriety. And soyou go to the tryout and they offer
you a position as a PO or abackup or a dh. And you go, I'll
take it because at least I cansay I played for XYZ baseball. And

(36:08):
then they'll look at me, okay,fine. So then you play from 12, 13,
44 until you're about 15 yearsold. You play for three years for
this organization as a backup,as a PO, as a DH. You bounce around,
you get on the field every nowand again, whatever. All the while,
if not taking private lessons,your skills are actually degrading,
right as you're, as you'regoing. And then it comes time to,

(36:29):
to go to high school and theysay, oh, he played for, you know,
the XYZ disasters. We'll get,we'll, we'll have him in here. And
so they take a look at you,they say, all right, you got a shot.
But then you can't actuallyput the numbers up because your,
your skills have degradedbecause you sold them out to be on
a team with notoriety and nowyou can't make the high school team,
which was your goal in thefirst place. Place.

(36:50):
Yeah, I've seen kids that,they want to go because it's prestigious.
They're sitting on the benchand going to molar the high profile
teams. But you're not playing.No, but I, I can tell people, yeah,
I play for molar, but youdon't play. Go somewhere you can,
where you can play and getsome exposure. So one scenario, I

(37:10):
said, that kid may not haveconfidence that he can play, but
he know he can be on the teameven though he's sitting on the bench.
So I just try, I see thetalent, but I said, you got to work
at it. You can't just, you gotto develop it. You know, everybody
talk about potential, okay,after a certain period of time that
if that potential hadn't shownitself, somebody else is going to

(37:33):
come and take that position.
Now I'm going to comment onthat. We kind of got away from rec,
but, but what George is sayingthough, is true. Now that all comes
down to the type of highschool program that you're playing
on, because Moeller is almostlike a minor league college team.
So they're deep, their depthis serious. Mason and, and all these

(37:56):
other top schools. So really,and I've heard this from a lot of
parents, their kids areplaying jv. They playing, but they
could have, they couldactually play varsity, but they're
so deep. And so that's whythey keep going to the state titles,
winning the, the GCL and Stu.You know, I think going in, I think

(38:16):
parents need to, to see thedepth, go to, to the high school
games and see it, talk to thecoaches. So when I first moved to
Westchester, okay, I tookRicky about eighth grade to see what
the high school team lookedlike so he can have a true understanding

(38:40):
who he's competing with. Sofirst thing I said, and you're going
to claim that position. Youdon't take that job, man, and you
know, and develop thatcompetition. But you got to see for
yourself, right? And see, andnot just varsity, but JV and freshman.
But for him, he practiced withvarsity as a freshman. So. But also

(39:04):
I think what George is sayingtoo, and all of you guys, that if
you're, if you're playing oncertain teams and you go to the high
school and you just sit in abench and getting playing time, then
that's, and I, the reality isthat plan, select, record, whatever
your plan, you know, you'regoing to get in a lineup, but once

(39:24):
you get to high school now yougot to earn that position. Now you
got to go out and compete andearn that playing time. And sometimes
I think that parents andplayers, they kind of get confused
because they get, thecommunication gets confused. Some,
some sometimes also.
Well, and to your point, Rick,that's a. Excellent logic there.

(39:46):
To your point, this is why wehave a transfer portal now in college.
Because they go to the collegeand they sit there and they go, wait
a minute, I'm not playing, I'mgonna go, I'll go to a smaller school
or a lesser known school or adifferent school or school who's,
whose person got hurt and Ican take the job or whatever it is.
And so where, I mean, will wedo we eventually end up with transfer

(40:07):
portals for high school? Imean, how does this, how does this
work? So, you know, the, theidea being that when do you make
the decision to say I'm justgoing to play for fun? And when do
you push through knowing thatthe numbers are what they are? Okay.

(40:28):
Knowing that you're talkingabout investment plus private lessons
plus. Okay, so we've tried tolay out the, the reality here. So
now my, my, where I'd like totake it is you've got a rec situation
in our town. It's calledFairfield Youth Baseball Association.
And there's one different onein every town. Yes. So you've got

(40:51):
a, you've got a, a youthbaseball sort. And then they get
to 10, 11, 12 where they'restarting to look at select and so
what do you do? What do you doas, as a, as a rec organization?
Do you create some selectteams within your, within your rec
organization?
That's a great idea.

(41:11):
We've seen that. That's whatFairfield Youth Baseball did. They
create a few select teams thatyou can try out for. Do you continue
to have those recreationalteams, guys that are just kind of
playing for fun all the way upthrough like Babe Ruth and that kind
of thing? Do you, do you putthe energy into. To that and do you,
where. What's your, what'syour, your mindset is that. Do we

(41:36):
say that kids go in thisdirection, Kids who want to go to
high school, where they goselect and they go this direction
and kids who don't, well, thenthey go over here and they play this.
Do we split them off at thatage or do we have a situation where
we say, okay, we're going toinvest as a youth baseball organization
to training our coaches fromthe very beginning so that even our
coach pitch and our kid pitchcoaches are, have received formal

(41:59):
coaching training from peoplewho really know what they're doing.
And they, and we, we've got a,an accepted standard of content or
contact conduct and a acceptedstandard of operation. And then we
try to do the second thing,which is we build a close relationship

(42:21):
with the local high schoolprogram. For instance, can you help
the high school program withtheir fundraisers? Can you have whatever
XYZ baseball night at thelocal baseball team where all your
kids and your parents all showup and root for the high school team
and you triple the amount ofthe population at the ballpark that
night, you know, and everybodyshows up for that? Do you hold clinics

(42:42):
where you let the high schoolplayers be the first mentors to your
younger kids? Do you createthat relationship so that when your
rec players get to highschool, number one, they've had quality
coaching, so they have decentdevelopment. Number two, they already
know the high school program,the high school program knows them.
So you've lessened the, the,the, the amount that the select team's

(43:05):
reputation plays. It's not somuch did they play for this team
or that team or whatever. It'swhat can you do in the tryout? And
then you've actually giventhem the skills to go in and compete
whether they played select orthey didn't. So do you, do you do
that? And I would like to seemore rec programs do those three
things.
But if the concern is there,all the things you said, all the

(43:29):
above should be put into play.But if the concerns not just I like
with the, with the red, youknow, they have the rookie league
and people invest money.They're looking at numbers and not
quality.
Yes.
So when I was involved, Iforget how many years I remember
they're looking at numbers andnot quality, but I'm looking at players

(43:52):
that can play. And gettingback to the rec league is the fact
that having qualified coacheswhen you do look at select teams
from the rec farm clubs orsystem and, but now the other kids
see where they can go.
Right?
And so now they have, theyhave a goal then and so. But they

(44:14):
have a goal and they have adecision. Okay. Now we're not just
going to be called rec. Sothey're going to have select guys
that from rec to play on thiscertain team. But at the same time
you got to have people who candevelop them to grow that program.
Yes. I think also alluding towhat George is saying, you need an

(44:35):
independent person to do theevaluation or group. Yes. Because
that has to get done. I see alot of, and I'm not going to name
programs and stuff, but I seea lot of select teams that are really
wreck. Okay, but they'repaying select prices.

(44:56):
Right.
Okay. And, and I've seen theyeven came into my academy a good
rec program that could beatthese couple select programs. Okay.
And these guys know how tocoach too. And the reason why from
October to to now they've cameinto the academy to do training.

(45:19):
So we've done everything fromstrength training to speed to just
the whole development program.So now. But they're a wreck team,
you see what I'm saying? Sothat's where the build up starts.
And these guys are, they're,they're dads and stuff, but they're
learning. And so me being anindependent guy, George being independent

(45:42):
with no our kids not involved.But our, our passion and our experience
that helps programs like that,you know.
Well, and I think so many ofthem jump to select because the perceived
necessity of the competition.They think you have to. And the funny
thing was when I, when I wasplaying these things change so often.

(46:06):
So it's, you know, everybody'sexperience is different. But when
I was playing we had thedifferent levels in the, we were
a part of the, the SouthwestOhio Baseball League and they had
their, their national ortheir, it was bronze, silver, gold,
national. But those, thosewere supposed to be an indicator

(46:26):
of your talent level.
Right.
But yeah, even that got confusing.
Right.
And so you know, you don't know.
You know when that happened.And two, I would say 2000. When did
you start playing at that?
When I was, I was in six.
About 2015.
Yes.
Yes. That's when I seen thechange too.
And I don't.
Yes.
I'm not, I'm not reallylooking to blame anybody. That's

(46:48):
a hard thing to.
We can.
Yes, we can't.
But that doesn't. Just becauseno one's to blame doesn't change
the reality. And so, you know,we would be a gold team because national,
I think was supposed to bemostly tournaments or something like
that. And then we get beat bya bronze and. Or we're a silver team.
Yeah.
It was just weird like becausewhat you're saying is it depends

(47:08):
on the. What it really dependson is the coaching of that team.
And so I was very, veryfortunate that from the time the
guy who coached me and I hadthe same coach for both years of.
Coach pitch. Great guy. Yeah,he was, I don't know that he was
the. A baseball mastermind,but he was just a great dude and

(47:29):
it really poured into us. Andthen after that I would play for
the same. When you're, you'reolder for one year and then younger
the next year. So when I wouldcome up and be younger, I played
for the same guy every year.And then when I was older I played
for the same guy. And I wasvery fortunate that both of those
coaches poured into us andreally did a good job of conducting

(47:54):
practice and rotating guys inand out. They did a good job of coaching
their teams. I got luckybecause there were a lot of rec teams
that didn't have that. And sothat's exactly what you're saying.
So I, I think, you know,hindsight is 20 20, but I wish, I
think maybe a way that wecould have avoided some of that headache

(48:15):
in select ball would be tryingto seek out proven experience because
what I ended up doing isplaying for, I would say rec caliber
coaches.
Right.
But we didn't get lucky thattime, if that makes sense.
Yeah.
So yes, we. It because it.When they're dads, it tends to be

(48:36):
a crapshoot. You know, some,some dads are. Were really into it,
some weren't. You know, somedads played up through high school,
some didn't, some didn't. Soit's, it's hard to tell. But when
you're paying, when you're paying.
That select price, that's whenyou need to ask questions.
That's when you need to ask questions.
And evaluate the coach andthank you.
Exactly. Evaluate the coachesand try to Find out, well, what,

(48:56):
what are your credentials?
Right?
And like I said, I, we did thebest we could. When I was playing
it, select was kind of new. Itwas really, it wasn't the monster
it is now, but it was gettingthere and we got, we got caught in
the build up.
So, so let me kind of, kind ofbring this back full circle. So what

(49:16):
we're looking at, if you're,if you're following all this along
while you're listening, okay,so at one point in time there was,
there was high school and thenthere was this Southwest Ohio Baseball
League and that was still aleague. You belong to a team, you
played same teams more thanonce. You'd play a whole league schedule.
It was kind of thing. And whatstarted happening was there was this

(49:39):
sort of takeover of, of a,what we called select baseball. It
was like it was someindependent clubs who came in and
said, nah, we're not going todo that. We want a higher level of
caliber. We want, we want thehigher kids, we want the higher competition.
We love it. And then we'regoing tournament only. And I've made

(50:01):
it clear in this podcast morethan once, and I will before, I will
again, but turn baseball isnot meant to be played in only tournaments.
And so the reason why we gotthere was because a league takes
a fair amount of effort from alot of people over a long period
of time. And a tournamenttakes a lot of effort from a fair
amount of people over a veryshort period of time. And so tournaments

(50:23):
actually give you a moreintensive experience with less investment
of money and time.
But it measures what youshould be done in practice.
Right? Yeah, but so what?Because it's a short, intensive thing.
It, it all, it doesn't involvepractice. And a lot of the other
things that we've talkedabout, it involves that weekend and

(50:44):
that's it. Right. You know, sothink about this way. If you're,
you know, it's one thing to,when you, you get married and you're
going to be married for therest of your life and that's a long
process of, of relationshipthat involves a lot of different
caring for that relationshipand doing things and whatever, but
if you're just going to datesomebody for a weekend, that can

(51:06):
be a very intense experienceand then you're off and you're doing
something else. So, you know,we, we traded the long term relationship
of league play to the shortterm fling of, of of tournaments.
Well, and the, the idea behindthat is that it's, we've got the
best of the best here thisweekend and see how you measure up.

(51:28):
And. But the problem is sometournaments do a better job of vetting
the competition.
They do, they do. So they do.
Some do a really good jobsaying you're not quite ready to
be in this tournament. A lotof them don't. And it's like, hey,
you want to pay to be in it,by all means, here you go. And then
you end up, you know, the sameteams just end up, you know.

(51:48):
So coming back to the case forrec ball, what, what we're trying
to, what we're trying toencourage is for rec ball organizations
to beef themselves up to thepoint where they make it easier for
kids to make that, that careerchanging decision that I can relax

(52:08):
and say, okay, I'm going toplay for fun now because rec ball
actually has a seriousopportunity for me to do that. And
I'm not going to go get on ateam and find out that, you know,
we're missing people half thetime, right? You know, we're playing
with ghost men and we're, youknow, whatever else because there's
just nobody left to be on, onthe upper levels. So this is where

(52:31):
the suggestions that we weremaking with the idea of, you know,
develop a tight relationshipwith the high school program, train
your coaches from early on,make them all get a short certified
experience and then pay forthat experience. Your coach is going
to volunteer to coach a teamfor a, for a season, pay for them

(52:55):
to get some training and thenif you have to do some fundraisers
to cover the cost of it orwhatever, right, do it. Do what you're
going to do. Raise the priceof hot dogs, whatever it is, but
figure out how to pay forthose coaches to get that training
so that you're providing asbest, you know, the best rec league
experience you can. And thenthat makes it easier for those kids

(53:15):
to say, all right, I don'tnecessarily feel like I have to go
play select in order to keepplaying ball, right? And at that
point, now you have kids inthose upper.
But you have a better choice.
Yes, you got a better choice, but.
You'Re running directly like,like a business. Say if you, if you
go, you want to get a fastfood business, you have to go train

(53:36):
yourself, right? You're notjust putting monies in. So now with
the, with the coaches, if theywant to coach, okay, you got to qualify,
you got to train to be acoach. Not just come in, say, well,
I'll think I'll coach, sure,but you got to train because there's
a Certain standard, like youhad said earlier, that we.
Want to have there and theother. So the other population of
people here that we're talkingto are parents.

(53:58):
Right.
So then, parents, if you'recoming up on that point where you
know, your child needs to makethis decision one way or another,
this, your child needs to say,okay, I'm going all in. I'm going
to give it everything I can toget to high school. And so then you
take them to a private teacherand you say, all right, I need an
honest recommendation. Does hehave a shot to play in high school?
Can we get him there?

(54:19):
What level?
And let that person. Yes, andlet that, let that person give you
an honest evaluation and thenmake your decision from there. There.
But if parents were to,according to these numbers I gave
you at the very beginning, thevast majority of us should be okay,
encouraging our children tomake this decision earlier. Right?
Right.
Okay. So if we're encouragingour children to play for fun at a

(54:42):
younger age, then if we donow, now we're going back to the
rec league and saying, okay,we're willing to stay here in the
rec league. What do you havefor us?
Yes.
And so if the rec league isputting in the work, training the
coaches, building the program,trying to keep it all together for
you, then seriously consider,all right, rec league's working hard

(55:03):
to try and make sure there'san opportunity to play for fun. I
really think you should giveit a shot. I think you should play
for fun and try and guide yourchild that way. And then we've actually,
we've actually changed thelandscape now because the rec leagues
have those upper teams. Kidsare choosing to play on those upper
teams because parents andprivate teachers are saying, let's,

(55:25):
let's prioritize these, these,these, these rec teams here. And
that would lead us to thefinal population of people, which
is private teachers, guys whodo what you guys do. And I'm telling
you, the more I have spoken todifferent private teachers over the
years, I have heard the samethings that you guys are saying now,
which is many of these kidsshould have made the decision to

(55:48):
play for fun by now. Yeah,they're, they're spending money and
they're not going to get whatthey're looking for. They're not
going to end up with the, withthe reward that they're trying to,
trying to get to. And if wewere more realistic, we would have
rec leagues with 16, 17, 18year old kids in them who are playing

(56:09):
for fun, having a good timeand enjoying baseball instead of
having 16, 17, 18 year oldkids frustrated with their, with
their select experience andstruggling. And now they're bitter
and now they're, they'rehaving a hard time enjoying the game
that they.
Yeah, but they, they believethat they're better than what they,
what they are. But.
And why do they do thatthough, George? Why do they believe

(56:31):
that?
They're looking at their ageand compared to the other kids. They
feel they're at 16, theyshould be at the same level as the
other kids are. But theyhaven't gotten that training or haven't
gotten that, that skill built.Building that skill at an early age.
They're thinking that the ageitself indicates that you have the

(56:51):
skills. But. But it's not. Butback to the rec league. It's the
fact that you got to be ableto like say being able. The parents
got to look at what, whatbudget are they going to look at?
It's not just throwing moneyat a program. So what are you getting
out of it? We said thatearlier. Return on investment. So
now that's going to help themto make a, a sound decision on where

(57:14):
that kid's going to go. If youwant to stay in baseball or get into
football or basketball.Another sport.
Exactly. And they also believethose things because the adults in
their lives have told themthat or the adults of their lives
have not told them what theyshould have told them, which is it's
time to decide to play for fun.
Yeah, exactly. Another thingtoo I want to add to remember coming

(57:39):
up as, as kids you, you've thebusinesses that was on your shirt,
man. Right, whatever, man. Soif you go back to develop that, they
have more sponsorships toobecause you see how that, that kind
of lines right, there you go.The community part of it, it kind
of aligns. And so I remembergrowing up we had like Lowenthal's

(58:02):
Drugstore brothers. Three wasa little place I played for security
rugs. We had Sweeney Morganroth insurance man, T.S. bulls. That
was Tony Scott and what's Leon Durham.
Leon. Yeah, yeah.
Yes. They own that. So Iremember all those teams coming up

(58:22):
and it was community based.You know who the, the best players
were, man. And then eventuallyeverybody moved on to Midland or
a higher level of rec, whichwe played all around. And so those
community base that'll keepyour, your businesses wanting to
invest back into your programsnow because now they're.

(58:45):
What happens selling theprogram to invest back into the business.
So if it's a say a grocerystore, whatever the story is, so
you're going to go there andpatronize that.
Yes.
So that now he, they're,they're sponsoring your team. But
now you know that that team isgoing to go to a La Rosa, go to,
to a Jets pizza things andsuch. So it's a recycling.

(59:06):
Yes, it's recycle. And thenthe, then the program can sell them.
Like, hey, we've having camps,we have in coaching clinics, we're
having this and that. So nowit's like, wow, not only is my dollars
going towards just a team,it's going through a whole program
now. So now I can see myreturn on investment again.
Right? Well, and absolutely.And here's from a different perspective.

(59:29):
When Ethan and I have workedwith, with companies who are struggling
to hire people and they, wehelp them with their, their jobs
that they, they run to hirepeople or we help them do a hiring
campaign at their company. Oneof the things that I try and tell
them is to create a, that isto, to do more with their social

(59:49):
media. And they look and theysay well, what do we post? We run
out of things to post onsocial media. And I said, well, you
have to create a, a culture ofcelebration where you're celebrating
everybody's, you know, little,the things that they did when they,
when they completed a trainingand when they leveled up and when
they whatever. And they sayokay, great, but then we run out
of things. I said, thensponsor some youth baseball teams,
football teams, soccer teams,basketball teams. Sponsor youth sports

(01:00:14):
because then you've gotsomething every time that team plays,
you've got stats to put upthere. You put it up. Congratulations
to the procedure, decision,drill guys who went out and they,
they won and they did. Theyhad this many and whatever and, and,
and get the whole companysupporting these kids involved and
talk about it. You know, get,get if your team sponsors them and

(01:00:35):
it says they're, they're the,you know, the XYZ company Bears.
Okay. Then make identicalshirts for all your employees to
wear if you want to. Shirtsare cheap, but if people are supporting
the team and that kid goes toWalmart with his mom and dad and
he sees a guy wearing a shirtthat looks like his jersey and he's
like, hey, I don't even knowthat guy, but he's supporting my

(01:00:57):
team. That kind of stuffbrings a community together and it
gives a company something to celebrate.
Yeah.
So when your company, and ifyou're listening to this and you're
in charge of HR or you're incharge of or you own your own business,
whatever, I'm Telling youthere is, there is so much to be
gained by supporting youthsports that it's unbelievable if,
if you are that, that, thatjersey that that kid wears, you're

(01:01:21):
there. Crumb Trucking ortheir, you know, whatever else. Epps
Garden center, all thedifferent people that you played
for, Ethan, when you wereplaying, you know, I shout out to
my, my friends who, who playedwith me for man, we played for Schmiel's
Markets and we played forPrecision Drill and we prayed. We
played for, you know, allthese different companies that we
didn't even know what theymade or what they did. That's fine.
They were just on our shirt.But if those people from that company

(01:01:44):
got behind our team, came tosee the games, I mean I would, I
would put the, I would put theschedule up and say, hey, our team,
our company sponsors thisteam. Here's the schedule. Go see
him play.
Yeah.
I mean, how cool would that beif you just say, I got nothing to
do tonight, let's go over andsee the kids play. Okay. When you
start doing that and bringingyour community together, that's the
power of rec. Ball selectdoesn't do that. They're not set

(01:02:08):
up to do that. That's nottheir thing. Their thing is their
parent funded for theopportunity for the tournaments.
They've already got a system.That's fine. The thing that makes
REC unique is that RECconnects to the community. Do service
projects in your community,take your kids out and do stuff for
people to, to, to breed thatsort of service mentality together

(01:02:35):
and give back to the communitythat is supporting your rec league.
You know, there's all kinds ofways that you can do this to, to
come together and, and createthat sort of support network that
allows you to have those upperlevel teams. But that would be in
a, in a gosh, in an idealworld there would be an opportunity

(01:02:55):
for kids to be able to say 12,13, 14 years old, you know what?
I'm going to play for fun andI can still do it on a good team,
have a good time, have, havelearn more about the game, that experience
and enjoy my, that's the key.And not break my neck trying to get
to the next level. Next level,next level. I think you'd see a lot
more kids do that and maybe wewouldn't be at just 3% going to,

(01:03:19):
going to high school.
I agree, I agree a lot of ittoo. Again, comes back to educating
parents and the anxiety, theinvestment and stuff, thinking that
one side of the fence isbetter than the other side of the
fence or the green, the grassis greener on the other side, which

(01:03:39):
in times, once they get there,it's not. I tell you a example of
a kid that just training. Heplayed for this travel team, okay.
And he was a catcher. So hecaught four games down in Florida
without a break. Okay. Comesback the next year at 14U. And you

(01:04:06):
know, athletically wasn'treally there, but at 13, you guess
what? They only wanted him tobe a P.O. okay. For, I would say
closer, over $2,000. Okay.Now, the kid didn't want to go and
try out for another teambecause I guess he's got trial anxiety.

(01:04:26):
So he took. He took the openspot for being a PO for that amount.
Okay. And he. He played. Butguess what? Towards the end of the
year, they circle back aroundasking you to catch again.
That sounds familiar.
They ask him to catch again.And so, so. And I remember telling

(01:04:49):
the parents, it's like, man, Iwouldn't have done that. I mean,
you know, I gave them my, my.But they, you know, decision making.
Yes. I said I wouldn't havedone that. I'd have put him on a
less team and let him play asmany positions, whatever. And guess
what? She did it. I mean, theydid it the next year. But after these

(01:05:12):
two years of spending a lot ofmoney and now he's playing on a team
where he's playing a lot morepositions and probably having fun,
you know, so those are. Oh,and another thing, I wanted to circle
back around as far as recipe.It was fun. Rec develops you a lot.

(01:05:32):
You're playing versus travelat times. I know our travel team,
we played up a lot, but likeEthan was saying, 9 and 10, 11 and
12.
Yeah.
When you got to the big field.Yes. You got the 13 to 15 years old
at the time, and you'realways, okay. You might beat a younger
team, and then the next yearyou're the older team, you know,

(01:05:53):
so now you're. And it was likethat where we played at in football
and basketball. So I thinkthat really taught us a lot about
life, competing sports becausewe always had to take our game. We
didn't. Never. We knew welost. But, you know, we always played

(01:06:13):
hard. You know what I'msaying? Yeah, we always played hard.
I think somewhere along theline, we've lost the idea that you
can casually enjoy sports andeverybody can play a little bit.
I think we've gone to whereyou're either an athlete or you're

(01:06:35):
not.
Right.
And you're either elite,getting labels.
Labels, labels.
Yes. We Got a lot of labels.
You know, I grew up in a timewhen, you know, every man I knew
in my life could go out andplay church softball if they wanted
to and did. Could. Could.Could do this at least. Yeah, it
was. It was no big deal. Like,if you want to play a little sports,

(01:06:57):
play a little sports. It's nobig deal. The. The idea that you
can do it recreationally,we've lost this somewhere. We think
you have to be, you know,super elite, you know, concentrated
or not. And I. I think we needto get back to a society where it's
something because, you know,you take a look at mdni. MDNI stands

(01:07:18):
for My dad and I. Right. Now,the idea was originally that this
is something that, you know,fathers and sons share with one another.
Born out of your relationshipwith your sons. Okay. So. But if
you get to the point where thedad goes, well, yeah, I mean, I played
a little bit when I was a kid,but I'm not an athlete.
Right.
I mean, it's just notsomething I do.

(01:07:39):
I hear that a lot.
Then. Then you're like, well,you don't have to be no one. No one
expects you to be, GeorgeFoster. Go out there and play with
your kids. Amen.
Yes. You know, thank you.Thank you.
Nobody expects you to be inthat. That minute percentage of 1%.
Just have fun with them, man.I don't care what it is. And it might
not even be best. I mean, baseball.

(01:08:00):
Yeah.
It could be other things.
Bonding. It's called bonding.
Yes. Thank you.
So you look at. You look atthe idea that we can all casually
enjoy sports of all kinds.
Yes.
That's. That's a much morerounded. Much more rounded society.
I catch balance. I catchmyself somewhere, George. It is balance.
And I catch myself sometimesin between, so fast. Oh, thank you.

(01:08:26):
I gotta get your fist pump onthat, man. But I catch myself sometimes
seeing kids like that, andsometimes I back up and I said, man,
I'm over coaching this kid orwhatever, and I. And I catch myself
in between senses andeverything. And it's funny, I kind

(01:08:47):
of have to laugh at myself fordoing that because I want the experience
to. For the kid to have funand learn the game and things like
that. And then I'm seeing kidsfrom. From all different levels,
and I have to be cognizant tonot lump them into one. One level.

(01:09:09):
You understand what I'msaying? Because I gotta see. I gotta
see where their level is atand everything. And. And then I have
to remind a parent it's aProcess, man. It's step by step by
step. They'll take two stepsforward and a couple steps back.
But that's the process ofgetting better. Because we all know
kids don't go outside and playthe game like that anymore.

(01:09:29):
No.
So that's where the patiencecomes in. And I think that the patience
doesn't align with parents attimes because gotta do it now. I'm
paying for these lessons, man.And he's gotta learn now and then
I don't. For me as aninstructor, I kind of back off. Like,
nah, I don't want you puttingthat on me.

(01:09:50):
Well, that's so important thatyou're able to have that perspective.
Yes.
But what I think the issue iswhat you're saying. Parents don't
do that for their own kid. Andso they see another kid that is as
high level and, and theyassociate their kid with this kid
because they're the same age.
Yeah.
Yes.
The question is, did you talkto your kid and see what he's interested

(01:10:11):
in? You know what I mean? Andso there was.
See what I see?
Yes.
There was a lot of kids that Iplayed wreck bow with that went on
to play different sports.
Same here.
Yeah.
And so it's. But that wassomething I always appreciated is
dad was going to ask, youknow, are you, are you enjoying this?
Where do you want to go? Andlet me help you get there. And you

(01:10:32):
know, as a kid, my goal wasjust high school base wise. Okay,
we'll get you to high schoolbaseball and then there you go. But
a lot of, a lot of parentswant more baseball for their kid
than the kid wants for themselves.
More softball or more softball?
Yes.
Or any, any sport, really.
Sport. Yes, sir.
Ethan is more than my podcastpartner. He's my son. And like every

(01:10:54):
baseball parent, my firstpriority was his development as a
player. Every year we'd startout with a new coach and a new team,
making new promises, only toend up playing the same old tournaments
with little to no practice inbetween. You know what I'm talking
about? That's why I'm sothankful that we found MDNI Academy.
I first met Coach Rick over adecade ago when Ethan was just a

(01:11:15):
kid. And I'll never forget therelief I felt watching his first
lesson. I knew right then thatno matter what team he played for,
my son would have amazing,consistent instruction from someone
who cared. Rick has trainedbaseball and softball players at
the select, travel and evencollege levels. So I knew that Ethan
could continue his excellencethrough training approach for his
whole baseball career. HeLearned hitting, pitching, catching,

(01:11:39):
fielding and more all in oneplace. Most of all, he learned to
love the greatest game in theworld and how to play it with character
and integrity. MDNI is a firstclass facility with plenty of tunnels
for hitting and pitchinginstruction that open up into large
areas for teaching fielding,baserunning speed and agility. They
even have a weight room forstrength training. So if you're wearing

(01:12:00):
yourself out running all overtown to multiple teachers or worse,
you're counting on that newselection. Select coach to actually
develop your child. You needto check out MDNI Academy today.
Go to mdaiacademy.com andcontact Coach Rick to learn how you
can get all the baseballinstruction you need from someone
who cares about your favoriteplayer as much as you do at MDNI

(01:12:21):
Academy. This is, this justoccurred to me a minute ago. I was
thinking about this. So Idon't know if you guys remember television
in the 70s. Okay, so I'mwatching, I'm growing up in the 70s.
I'm watching things like HappyDays, right?
Is that the one where you gotto play with the rabbit ears all
the time?
Yeah. So we got. I'm watchingHappy Days and it was not uncommon.

(01:12:43):
You know, all these guys,they, they were in, they were in
a band. The characters, theywere in the band and then they did
a thing and then they went outand guess what they did? They played
softball. Yeah, they playedsoftball all the time. And they were
in their own softball team andthey were their own. Or you'd see
they do these battle of thenetwork stars things on television
where they'd have differentsporting events and it would be actors

(01:13:04):
and whoever else. And you knowwhat? They weren't half bad. They
were actually pretty good.
Yes, they were.
And the idea was that anybodycan go out and do this. This is.
No, we're not, we're not goingto be the, the Cincinnati Reds, but
we're going to go out andmaybe now. Yeah, but so, so the idea

(01:13:24):
of, the idea of being able tojust recreationally enjoy sports,
I think is, is something weneed to get back to. Something we
need to get back.
The bottom line I look at whenI tell the parents, I said, through
baseball, learning life skills.
Yes, sir.
Learning life skills throughbaseball is not necessarily going
to go forward in baseball. Youmay go to another sport or getting

(01:13:46):
involved in some other field,but learn life skills. So that's
going to help you farther ondown the road, I think.
Now, kids don't handle failurevery well because they're not taught,
they're not Taught well, thepressure, the parents, and they're
not giving the least.

(01:14:06):
What's wrong with you, Ethan?Can't you do that? You just did it
the other day. What's goingon? You're not even listening.
I just had a. I just had aparent the other day. Son struggled
like, well, you know, heplayed on the team year before, didn't
do well. It's playing on theteam now and it's not doing very
well. And so of course, he'snot very athletic and all that. I

(01:14:28):
was like, oh, oh man, here we go.
Well, what it, what it is isit's an identity crisis.
Yes.
And when you put your identityas a young kid, your identity becomes
the sport that you play. Theneverything, every win and every fail,
it's a roller coaster of onlyhighs and only lows.
Yes.
When it's something a littleless pressure, it's like, oh, this

(01:14:50):
didn't work out. And it's a,it's a smaller failure. And you learn
how to. I think it helps youlearn how to deal with it better
because everything isn't socatastrophic all the time.
It's result oriented. They'relooking at the results. And you go
out there, you don't. You gosay 0 for 4 or 3, but look at the
progress being made. So those0 for 3, 0 for 4, maybe hit line

(01:15:11):
drives right at somebody. Sodon't look, don't be so result oriented.
And so that's why I want, whenI go to go to the games, watching
the kids, and then when I askthe parents, okay, what did the kid
do that day? It's notnecessarily looking at the results,
but how did he get there? Sohe got ahead. Okay. I said, where
did they go? Where did he hit?And what was the count? They were

(01:15:33):
like, they're looking at melike, why you want to know all that?
So now to me, I know that,okay, he had a 3:1 count and he hit
the ball to the oppositefield. I said, who won that battle?
And he said, well, the kiddid. No, I said, the pitcher did.
Because you settle for just asingle, but three and one, you got
to trust yourself to be ableto hit with two strikes. So that's

(01:15:53):
going to that next level. I'mjust want to see what level that
kid can go. And I talk abouthitting zone compared to strike zone.
And I tell the kid, I said,could you hit that? Yes, but it's
not a strike. Yeah, but couldyou hit that?
Right, right.
I'd rather for you to swing atit, even if you miss it, then the
umpire gonna call you on that.
Right? Yeah. And I think whatthis all comes down to is a willingness

(01:16:18):
to be, to, to. To face realityand make decisions in the framework
of reality.
Yes.
Rather than, look, everybodywants to dream and everybody wants
to. Every parent.
No fantasizing, no fantasies.
Everybody wants to get behindtheir kids and, and help them achieve
their dreams. Yes, Iunderstand that.

(01:16:38):
Sometimes they want to getbehind them to do what they want
to do.
Right, right. To achieve theirown dreams. Yeah.
Yeah. I want you to be abaseball. Baseball player. I want
you to be. I don't want. Yeah,you are. You gotta be that.
So, you know, I understand.Believe me, believe me, I understand
what, what this is like from aparent perspective. But we're, we're

(01:17:01):
not helping our kids if wedon't. Let me put this way. You're
helping them a whole lot moreif you, you're helping them a whole
lot more by helping them dealwith reality than you are by letting
them continue to believesomething that isn't true.
Right, right.
And so it is, it is a lovingand supportive thing to say, hey,

(01:17:27):
I think maybe it's time tothink about doing this, and then
let's pursue this or let'stry, you know, let's take on this.
Well, let's go this direction.
If. If to love your kid is towant what's best for them, that includes
truth. And sometimes truthisn't fun.
Yes.
But that doesn't make it notthe truth, and it doesn't make it
less necessary.

(01:17:47):
Yeah, I think we get caught upin this idea. Well, I just want my
kid to be happy. You know, youask your parents, well, I just want
my child to be happy. And Ihave, I have often said that. I think
that's. I think that's adangerous thing. I.
You got to give some, Somesound guidance. And I just want Ethan
to be happy. But, but whatdoes make him happy, though? I know

(01:18:10):
when he's out there playingbaseball, he somewhat likes, but
when he's out there playingbasketball or playing football, he
really loves it. Come backhome right back, he's talking about
it. No, but I wanted him toplay baseball because I was a catcher,
and I love Johnny Benson, andI want him to follow in the footsteps.

(01:18:31):
And then I'm looking at Sotowith the mets, you know, $765 million,
you know, I could go on a lotof vacation.
Well, and, you know, I thinkthat when you, when you get caught
up in the idea that you justwant your kids to be Happy. The danger
is that happiness is anemotion. It comes and it goes. It's
involuntary. You can't chooseit. George, I can't look at you and

(01:18:54):
say, george, be happy rightnow. You can't, you can't be like,
like.
You can't be happy and youknow it.
Yeah, you can't, you can'tmake it happen. Okay? So if, if what
you want for your child issomething that comes and goes and
no one can control it, no onehas any, the ability to make it happen.
That's a dangerous place tobe. I would much rather have my child

(01:19:14):
have joy. And joy is thesatisfaction of doing what's right.
So when I, I want to teach himto, to, to do what's right in his
life. And I want to do what'sbest for him. And by doing that,
I'm helping him to achievejoy. And joy will get you through
a dark night. Joy will get youthrough a tough time.

(01:19:35):
Joy can't always get what you want.
That's right. Joy will helpyou get by when you don't have any
money. Joy will help you getby when you, when you're struggling
with your health, when you'restruggling with, you know, your work,
when you're struggling withall kinds of things. Joy will get
you by because you know youdid what was right. And I think that
that's where the, you do.

(01:19:55):
Doing what is right, that'swork, what works.
Yeah. Level swing, let ittravel. Wait for your pitch. Be aggressive
out there. It's no wonderyoung players get confused at the
plate. What if your son ordaughter could learn not only how
to hit the ball, but alsowhere to hit it, when to hit it there
and why. George Foster hasplayed baseball at the very highest

(01:20:17):
levels. He was the NationalLeague MVP when he hit 50, 52 home
runs and 149 RBIs in a singleseason. He led the major leagues
and home runs twice and RBIsthree times. He was a five time All
Star, a Silver Slugger, and hehelped the Reds win back to back
World series. During his 15year career, George developed a unique
approach to hitting that madehim one of the greatest hitters of

(01:20:40):
all time. And now yourfavorite player can learn it too.
That's right, baseball legendGeorge Foster. Foster is currently
accepting new students. Learnthe psychology of hitting, situational
hitting, hitting for power,bunting and more. Every team needs
players who can hit and Georgeexplains the game in a way that's
easy to understand andexciting to learn. So check out georgefosterbaseball.com

(01:21:03):
to learn how you can apply forprivate lessons with a member of
the Cincinnati Reds. Hall ofFame. Spots are limited and the roster
will fill up fast, so don'twait. Apply at george foster baseball.com
so I want you to, I want to, Iwant to kind of go back and recap
here a little bit. So we'velooked at when it, when a child is

(01:21:26):
playing baseball and theprogression of it. Okay. We've said
that of all the kids who willplay baseball, 3% will play in high
school. And by the time youget to college, you're less than
1%. Those are the main, thoseare the main numbers that we talked
about.
Yeah.
Less than 1% will play in college.
And beyond elite, but bleak.
So 99% plus will make thedecision to play for fun before college.

(01:21:53):
And the question for kids andfor parents is when do you make that
decision? And ourencouragement to rec programs is
really dig in and try andconnect with your local businesses,
your local communities, builda strong network of support, work

(01:22:14):
hard to train your coaches tobe able to provide those upper level
teams so that parents can thenfeel comfortable guiding their kids
to make that decision earlier.Parents, we're encouraging you to,
to take to heart these numbersand really consider when you need

(01:22:36):
to be guiding your children tomake that decision to play for fun.
And if your local recsituation doesn't have those opportunities
for 16, 17, 18 year old kids,go and volunteer to be part of it.
Show up and say, hey, I'dreally like for there to be an opportunity
here. How can I help? What canI do? Can I help raise money? Can
I coach a team? What can I do?Can I, you know, be a part of the

(01:22:59):
solution? But I think if moreparents made, made that, that reality
decision and guided their kidsto it and said, yeah, I think there
needs to be these, I thinkthere would be more, more recreational
opportunities. Now you've alsogot the opportunity to, to, to go
to a private instructor like,like Rick or George. These guys work

(01:23:21):
with kids all the time andthey are, they are an impartial third
party. That's importantbecause an impartial third party
can say, I think that, yeah, Ithink, I think your son or daughter
has a chance to play in highschool. And I think that if we work
hard, I think we can get themthere. And, and then the parent says,
okay, I think I can, you know,I think I can afford the investment,

(01:23:43):
let's go do it. Or maybe oneof these guys says, you know, I've
seen a lot of Players at a lotof levels. And I think your son or
your daughter will be happierto play for fun right now. And they're
more than welcome to continuecoming for lessons to continue to
get better. If they, if youknow, they, they want to try out
for high school, we'll doeverything we can to help them be

(01:24:04):
ready for that. But I thinkyour, your investment is better spent
in a different area and allowyour child to play for fun. The,
the in impartial analysis of athird party can be so important when
you do that. When you do that.At the end of the day, we want to

(01:24:24):
encourage rec programs to beas strong and as vibrant as they
can be.
Get stronger.
We want to encourage selectprograms to be as strong and vibrant
as they can be. Continuedeveloping kids who want to go on
playing high school, playingcollege, do those kinds of things.
We love all baseball and atall levels and we're just trying

(01:24:47):
to offer some, some, someencouragement to, to parents and
coaches and organizations tomake baseball as well or as great
as it can be. Something thatwe can all enjoy as, as kids and
as adults for our whole lives.
And you make a great impact.So realize that your, your level
is important.

(01:25:08):
Yeah.
And developing these kidsbecause you're getting them prepared
for later on and helping themmake a sound decision. But back to
the parents, it's not thinkingof the time. There's important, there's
important to find out, makethat decision as far as where your
kid going to play. And thatdecision need to be made. So get

(01:25:29):
as much information as youpossibly can to make a sound decision.
Another thing I would add towhat George is saying is that if
you are make that change fromwreck to select to travel. Also make
sure that if your son ordaughter love the game or like the
game.
Yeah.
If they love the game, they'regoing to practice more. And so your

(01:25:51):
investment is going to looklike, man, that's a great investment.
It's going to be paid off. Butyou got to understand that. Or are
you continually driving themto, to work and if they, you don't
see them hidden off the tee orwhatever, you think that they might
not be doing it and theymight, might be doing it, but on
their terms and on their time.

(01:26:13):
Yes, very good point. Verygood point. When you, when you, when
you get to that crossroads andyou make that decision, you kind
of become business partnerswith your kids a little bit. Yeah,
you become, you're like you'rethe funding arm of the, of the venture
here and it's a decision thatyou make together and be less.
Fewer regrets later on. Yeah,because I hear parents say, you know,

(01:26:36):
I put out paid all this moneyfor you to do this and now you don't
want to do it.
I hear that too.
But you should have askedyears earlier couple years earlier.
You didn't do the, theinvestigation on your investment
prior to go.
Yeah, that's where I thinkthat's where the ex anxiety, stress
and taking that to the field.
Parents need to do their homework.

(01:26:56):
Yes.
As far as sitting down,looking at the finance and looking
at if the investment, seeingwhere the kid is, if the kid like
say love it or like it. One ofthe two. There's no in between, no
gray area.
So I hope you've enjoyed ourconversation about the case for rec
Ball today. I hope that we'veoffered up some information that

(01:27:17):
was helpful to you and some,some encouragement that was helpful
to you regardless of where youare in the process. I certainly enjoyed
our time today and as I doevery time with these guys, I cannot
tell you, this is our 10th,our 10th episode and this has been
absolutely the thrill of mylife life to be able to do this podcast
with these guys and I reallyappreciate them and all of their

(01:27:40):
time and I hope you do too. Ihope you're enjoying it and I hope
you're catching it. Everywherethat you can find podcasts, whether
That's Spotify, Amazon,iHeartRadio, any place that you would
normally listen to podcasts,you can also find it at our website@completegame
podcast.com as well as onFacebook and on YouTube. So until

(01:28:01):
we get together next time,have a great time and we'll see you
real soon. We hope you'veenjoyed the Complete Game Podcast,
the show that's all aboutbaseball. New episodes drop each
week, so be sure to subscribeso you don't miss a thing. If you'd
like to support the podcast,consider leaving us a five star rating
or better yet, drop us acomment or a question. Let us know

(01:28:24):
what you think. The CompleteGame Podcast is produced and distributed
by 2Creative DigitalMarketing. Check us out at 2CreativeDigital.com
on behalf of Ethan, Coach Rickand the Silver Slugger, George Foster,
I'm Greg Dungan saying have agreat week and we'll see you real
soon.

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