June 16, 2025 • 52 mins
What does it mean to choose the harder path when everyone around you is telling you to go another way? Mal Jones, Florida's first hip hop artist to be recognized as a Master Folk Artist, takes us on an incredible journey through loss, music, and finding one's authentic voice.
Having lost his parents and brother at an early age, Mal found himself facing a crossroads that would define his entire artistic journey. While mainstream hip hop culture often rewards artists who embrace violence, misogyny, and drug references, Mal deliberately chose a different direction. "It's ordained," he explains, describing how his choice wasn't just a preference but a calling he was compelled to follow despite the financial sacrifices it entailed.
Mal, redefines complexity in a way that transforms how we might think about life's challenges. "Complexity is like an upgrade," he shares, "because once anything complex happens and you get through it, you're a more advanced, more advanced thinking human being." This profound perspective reframes our understanding of difficult situations as opportunities for growth rather than obstacles to overcome.
Among his many accolades and accomplishments, Mal's talent has taken him across the ocean to represent America at Shakespeare's 400th anniversary celebration in Bristol, England, where he performed "Hip Hop Shakes," bringing the Bard's words to life through freestyle rap.
He is Jacksonville, Florida's first Cultural Ambassador of the Arts who uses hip hop culture as his platform to bridge the gap between culture and education. His Lyricist Live show, which earned him a spot on the TEDx stage, was a fixture at Jacksonville's monthly Art Walk for 14 years, creating a safe space for artistic expression without the profanity and negativity often associated with rap culture.
For those feeling lost in life's complexities, Mal offers this wisdom: surround yourself with the right people—even if it's just one person who truly believes in you. "The road less traveled for someone like me is a peaceful road," he says, revealing how choosing authenticity over conformity ultimately led to greater simplicity and peace in his life.
Mal's sage advice for simplicity and un-complicating the grind of your mind includes:
- Get out in nature and off the Internet, every once in a while.
- Clean up the mess you made.
- Have fun with whatever you’re doing. Especially if what you’re doing started in your heart.
If you’re an Artist...
- Finished what you started.
- Always have a contractual agreement with whatever entity that is agreeing to pay you for your artist services.
- Always pay your taxes.
Links and Outreach
- Instagram
- @thelyricistlive
- @malsmind
- Email - maljones904@yahoo.com
- Support Mal's art - CashApp donor link: $Mal1976 (Jamal Jones)_
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Sometimes, I wish we could go back to a time when
things weren't so complicated.
Welcome to the Complexity ofToilet Paper, the podcast that
dives into the everyday momentswhere we overthink, hesitate or
just get stuck.
I'm overthinking.
I'm over, I'm overthinking.
Let's hear it for the toiletpaper Through honest
(00:24):
conversations, unexpectedinsights and a whole lot of
humor.
Your hosts, phyllis Martin,mark Pollack and Al Emmerich,
are here to help you roll withit and make your life a little
less complicated.
One conversation at a time,that's right, dude.
The beauty of this is itssimplicity, speaking of which
(00:44):
it's time to enter the stall,put the lid down or not,
depending Get comfortable androll with it.
Oh worry, not, dear friend,it's really quite simple.
This is the complexity oftoilet paper.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Well, hello my throne mates.
How are you, oh throne mates,how are you, oh great.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Very, very good.
Do you find that in everyaspect of your life now you find
alliterations to toilets andbathrooms?
I mean, is it just invadingyour life All?
Speaker 4 (01:21):
the time All, the time All the time, all the time.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I find that people are now sending me memes and
ideas and all things toiletpaper, toilet bowls, toilet
brushes, two ply, single ply, noply, don't reply.
All the plies, all the plies,all the plies, don't reply.
All the plies, all the plies,all the plies, don't reply.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
I love that one.
I'm fearful what I'm going toget for the holidays.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
moving forward, I have a feeling it's all going to
be bathroom related, absolutelyWithout a doubt.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Oh, you know it's coming.
You know it's coming Instead oflike carafts of wine, we're
going to get packages of toiletpaper.
To carafes of wine, we're gonnaget packages of toilet paper or
a little cleaner.
So you know, you know what Isaw the other day?
Oh, my gosh, no, I, just I, Ididn't even think about this.
So you know, the empty rolls,the paper rolls.
I saw, uh, an art picture thatwas.
(02:17):
It was somebody had made a dogstrung together with string.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And the toilet paper empty rolls, we're going to get
toilet paper roll sculptures, Ibelieve is what you're looking
at.
Hey, I'll take it.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
My studio is not that exciting, so I could use some
toilet paper art.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, listen, today we are going to bust open the
throne and invite a guest intothe stall, and the topic is
choices.
Invite a guest into the stalland the topic is choices.
However, it's really, I think,a unique approach, and when you
think about choices, that'swhere so much confusion,
(03:03):
complication and complexityrolls into our lives.
And I know today we're going totalk about music.
Even the concept of music canbe complicated because there's
so many choices Like what is thething, mark and Phyllis, that
when it comes to choices, juston an everyday thing, always is
complicated for you?
So, I guess it yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
So I'll jump in and it's not every day, but I
literally was talking about thisto somebody the other day.
When Tim and I go to plan avacation, the overload of
choices and options, even if wenarrow it down to place, becomes
exhausting, because it's thenever ending.
(03:41):
Well, what about this?
Well, what about this?
It might be less expensive, itmight be more expensive, maybe
it should be this kind of a room, maybe it should be that kind
of a room.
What if we clicked over here?
What if we?
And it just is ridiculous,almost like buying a
refrigerator, that there are somany choices.
Eventually, I think, we justget worn down and pick something
, and I we got to find adifferent way to, to to come to
(04:04):
that, because it takes the funout of it for a little while,
and sometimes we end up doingnothing because we can't find
our way out of the swirling andswilling of.
Is it this, is it that?
Is it over there?
Is it over here?
Really, we need somebody justto call and say this is where
you're going.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
For me, it's always the death scroll of when I'm
looking for a show on likeNetflix or Amazon or whatever
Hulu.
I will literally spend my timelooking at the trailers and an
hour and a half has gone by andI haven't made a choice and I'm
like what the hell just happened?
Speaker 4 (04:58):
You know what it is for me?
I have this horrible FOMO, uh,fear of missing out, and so what
I end up doing is, I know thatchoice is going to lead
somewhere of vacations, Phyllisand I'm like, oh, this
destination looks cool, but thenthere's this destination.
So if I choose this destination, this is going to happen
(05:19):
conversation around our guestchoices and where his choice and
his continued choice has ledhim as an artist and um, and the
journey it's taken him on.
So I'm I'm really excitedbecause I I feel that when you
make that choice, you'recommitting to it, and I think
(05:41):
that's the scariest part.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Well said.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Well, mall Jones is our guest and he is going to
join us in the stall.
And you talk about an artist.
He's not just any artist.
He is Florida's first hip hopartist and he's actually
officially recognized as amaster folk artist.
And you say, okay, well, what'sunique about that?
Well, it's his freestyle rapskills that make it so unique
(06:08):
and that's what made him a first.
He's got a lyricist live show.
That's been part of an eventcalled Jacksonville Art Walk for
over a decade plus.
And the cool thing is herepresented America in Bristol,
england, for Shakespeare's 400thanniversary.
(06:29):
He took Shakespeare to thestreets with hip hop shakes.
We might even get a snippet ofit.
Or, if we can't hear the wholething, maybe we can possibly
drop it in the show notes orsomething like that notes or
something like that.
Either way, it is an incrediblegift to have him in studio
because he had a choice.
(06:50):
He could have gone a differentway with his music and he chose
to go the way he's going toshare.
He went, and why.
And it's going to make you dropyour drawers.
See what I did there.
Drop your drawers.
I like that did there.
Drop your drawers we got it.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
I like that.
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah, that's real good.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I don't believe either one of you.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I think you're just placating me.
It gets a C, solid C.
I don't even get a full flush.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Isn't that the shape of a toilet seat, a solid C.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
You did it.
Indeed, it's an O.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
A toilet seat?
No, it's an.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
O.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
It's a C, okay, oh no , okay, yes, I see it now, I see
it, okay, I had to look at itfrom the other angle.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
All right, anyway, now that we've destroyed a great
intro, let's break away for amoment and then reset.
It is time to head into thestall with Maul Jones on the
complexity of toilet paper.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
What the hell are you doing in the bathroom day and
night, Wanted to get out ofthere.
Give someone else a job.
I'm overthinking.
I'm overthinking.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
We are back in the stall.
Thank you, mark Maul in thestall.
I just realized that, maul, youare in a stall with two men and
a woman.
Women, woman, a woman, is that?
Is that weird sounds?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
like a bro it's something it's.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
You know, if I I got news for you.
If what we're going to talkabout and unpack and discuss
today gets discussed in abathroom stall, I I want to be
in that bathroom, I don't carewho's in it, because we got cool
stories and cool stuff to talkabout.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
Man, you do not want to fall in a bathroom stall.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
No, you don't.
I've got actually stories aboutthat, but we're not going to
talk about it on this program.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Wait a minute, Mark.
This guy just laid down a DrSeuss and you did not jump on it
.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
So well, first of all , let's do the informal formal
hellos and a quick story.
Okay, let's do it.
Maul, this is Mark and Phyllis.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Mark and Phyllis Hi Maul.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Well, hello Maul.
It's so great to have you inthe stall.
Oh really, come on Phil.
Well, hello Mal.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
It's so great to have you in the stall.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Oh really.
Come on, Phil.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It does make you tickled, doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Now I'm tickled, I know, I know.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Yeah, thank you for having me, man.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, mal, the reason you're on this show, my friend,
we like to kind of start thingsoff with what we call a value
equation.
Okay, off by uh, with what wecall a value equation, uh, which
is basically something Icreated, which is, it's a, it's
a cipher for deciphering value.
Wow, because I could think of alot of things about you that I
(09:38):
know personally.
Mark has read, phyllis has read.
There's a lot out there, butwhy this particular show?
And and the word to me thatmost clearly defines why you're
on this show, and also thisvalue that you create, is bridge
.
And the reason I chose bridge isthere are people who are
(10:00):
fortunate enough to build onebridge, or two bridges, or three
bridges in their lives, throughwork or through community.
I don't know a whole lot ofpeople who've built like five to
seven bridges.
You bridge culture with yourart.
You bridge art with yourculture.
You bridge education with yourart and your culture.
You challenge society normsthrough education, through your
(10:24):
art and culture.
You've chosen to bridge achallenge in the community by
giving these young artists avoice when they perceive that
they may not have one.
So I put heart there and thenthe last thing is mind.
I mean you, your art and yourcraft and and what you've done
has also challenged the mind.
I mean you, your art and yourcraft and and what you've done
(10:45):
has also challenged the mind.
And I'm sure we'll we'll hearsome of the tougher side, but
I've seen the positive side ofall of that.
And so you're a bridge, throughyour culture and art, to
education.
That's that's, that's justdripping into society and the
youth through your heart andyour mind, and the impact that
that you're having is is you'reputting.
(11:06):
You're putting hip hop on aplatform that a lot of people
would be exposed to, that havenever been exposed to.
I mean your Shakespeare stuffis like I mean the thousands,
and how many thousands of peoplehave seen you at Art Walk, man?
How many tens of thousands ofpeople over the years have seen
you at Porch Fest?
And so I just see that you'rethis bridge to all of these
(11:30):
different things.
That's creating the motivation,the energy, the awareness, the
excitement.
You're providing hope, and Iwas like man, what a story there
must be there when it comes tothe challenges you faced in the
successes.
And so the crew and I were likedude, let's step into the stall
for a short bit break apartsome of these things and have a
(11:58):
convo with the guy Maul.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
What's up, y'all, what's up, guys?
I'm really excited, feelblessed to be on the show with
you guys, to talk about what youguys talk about, because I'm
all for the conversation.
It's like literally the reasonwhy I do this is I crave
conversation.
You know, I lost my both of myparents when I was very young.
You know both of my parentswhen I was very young, you know
so and my father is who, like,introduced me to the arts.
(12:33):
So, not having them, but havingthose values that they
instilled in me, like the artsand what, what I was able to do
with it was kind of like thempassing it off to me before they
left, so I can have somethingto reach out to my community, to
share, like in a, in a positivelight.
(12:54):
So it it's very, uh, rewardingto be able to do that.
I mean not financially, butit's.
It's not financially but it'sspiritual.
You know the way I do it and Iguess the reason why I'm able to
(13:15):
do it for so long and Ispiritual, like release for that
that affects other people inthe community in a positive way.
You know it.
Yes, it's rap and it's very um,competitive and very um.
(13:40):
Any type of title you can slapon it.
It it's, it's adorned, but thetitles I know and what it's used
for and what I've actually beenused for it's those titles
aren't placed on what I do.
Much you know, and it should be, but that's the industry that
(14:01):
we're in, where it's it'scommoditized.
That's the industry that we'rein, where it's commoditized.
You know what I'm saying.
It's like if you're not sellingdrugs and cursing and calling
females bitches and hoes, you'renot valuable.
That's all I'm saying, becauseI guess it's how you see value
(14:27):
in my way, of what I was taughtfrom my parents and what they
taught me about and what mybrother taught me God bless the
dead who introduced me to hiphop as a kid.
The value he exposed to me wasmore so like what I'm doing
(14:48):
versus what's considered valuein this day and age.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Well, and I think, man, of course this happens with
some of the guests that come onMaul we unpack something and
we're like, oh, let's do anothershow on that, right, right.
First of all I want to saythank you for going there so
deeply, so quickly.
You know we kind of I didn'tmean to man, I'm sorry about
that.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
No.
No apologies needed.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
This is the apology.
Free zone man.
This is a toilet stall.
You can just put the shit awayand wipe it off and start over
and flush and we come back to it.
Dude, we do, we do this thewhole damn show.
Yeah, I mean, why wouldn't you?
You know, why wouldn't you?
But anyway, no, you went deepand and and I think it's
interesting, um, that we startedthere because we'd be curious
(15:40):
to know the word complexity okay, like, not yet how it shows up
in Maul's life, but just theword complexity.
How do you define that?
What does that mean to you?
Speaker 5 (15:57):
What complexity means to me?
Yeah, it's like an upgrade,because once anything complex
happens and you get through it,you're in a more advanced,
you're in a more advancedthinking human being, and that's
(16:19):
all I've ever dealt with.
That's why I have all of thesehistorical firsts.
There's major storyline behindany of that, and I never were
like hey, look at me, this iswho I am.
I never did any of that.
I just kept going through thecomplexities of being the artist
(16:41):
that I am and those things cameout of it.
So that's how I see thecomplexity that is.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Oh my God, we could end the show right now.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Mall.
That is one of the freaking,most beautiful things I've ever
fucking heard.
Yeah, I mean, that is just likewow.
I mean we don't try tosugarcoat the you know the candy
here and it's all flowers anddaisies.
I mean we're trying to evolvethis into something that gets
(17:13):
real, but I don't think there'sa whole lot of people I know of
that would look at that throughthat lens right off the bat.
Yeah, the bat, yeah.
(17:38):
Well then, with with thatbackdrop, dare I, I ask to take
us through?
Things become complicated,right, and then they create
complexity, yeah, and and thenyou navigate through it and and
in your, your, your definition,you come through on the other
side.
So you've already painted some,some, some canvas for us, with
the death of parents and andyour brother and these other
(17:58):
challenges.
But when you think about theword complicated, like what is
complicated, or what has beencomplicated, or what is
complicated today in in Maul'slife, like when you think about
this mountain, that'scomplicated, right, that's
creating complexity.
What is it that's most in frontof you today?
Speaker 5 (18:22):
Just because you know all that I've been through.
I graduated high school andfinished high school, through
all this, you know, but afterhigh school I wasn't really able
to go to college.
Like you mentioned, my father,my mother, my brother, but it's
(18:49):
my sister, my grandmother, mygrandfather too, it's literally
all of them While you were inhigh school.
Oh yeah, this was all highschool, but some of it was
before high school ended.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Wow, you lost all of those people, yeah, all of those
people.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
So that's why I'm saying I feel like I live the
life at a point where it's ablessing just to be here, like
that's the point of view I have,point of view I have.
It's hard to look at what otherpeople are doing and going
(19:28):
through and them not beingreally happy about that, but
they have all the things thatI've lost.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I have to say, from somebody who lost almost every
family member parents,grandparents, a brother by the
time I was 24, man, I definitelyfeel where you're coming from.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Yeah, I know you do.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
It's very difficult to hear someone who has had
opportunity and family to.
You know, I don't know how manytimes I'd love to call my
parents and ask them a question,but I celebrated 30 years since
my dad's been gone two days agoand my mom's been gone 23, 24
(20:08):
years at this point, you know,and so, yeah, I feel you, man,
it's difficult.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
But the thing is and I appreciate it, but I don't
need a pat on the back becauseit's all made me a stronger
person than the average person.
I know I have a way toughershell than the average person
that can just figure out how topush your buttons.
(20:36):
Push them and then you're done.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
I'm not that person.
Yeah, you stood at the gates ofhell already.
Yeah, yeah, and you were ableto to come back.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Yeah, you know, I, I, it's always.
But the thing it all goes downto why we're having this
conversation I had music, I hadhip hop music, I had that's the
only equation that was therewhen nothing was there.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
And that's what I do today.
How did the music uncomplicatethings for you?
Speaker 5 (21:12):
I was able to do it well and other people agreed.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Okay, but tell me more about.
Tell us more about that.
Like you were able to do itwell, which is incredible, and
you do that.
Like you were able to do itwell, which is incredible, and
and you do.
But but how did that provideclarity in your life where
things didn't seem so complex,like what did the music do for
you?
Speaker 5 (21:36):
it.
It allowed me to tell my storyin my way.
That was where I could that.
I can articulate it in my way.
It doesn't belong or it couldbe taken by anyone else unless I
give it to them, but everythingelse can.
(21:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So you, you, you had I mean, there's a whole power
control dynamic there, right,you, you lost, you had no
control over what you lost.
But is it that you couldcontrol this?
You could control your voice.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
No, not really.
It was the fact that, um, like,like, we started with the
complexity of learning how to doit, the, the, the complexity of
actually not like taking theeasy road with something that's
very difficult if you want to bea certain type of artist.
You know of a musician.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
There's so many types that you can just hey, I want
to be a musician, oh, I'm amusician, but you made a choice,
and your choice was I can godown this road like other hip
hop artists and make money andfall into the trap of whatever
(23:11):
that lifestyle is, or I cancontinue to complexify my life
and make it hard by helpingothers.
And you chose the hard path,and you chose the path that you
even said had less financialvalue for you.
How did you?
How did you, when you werethinking about the complexity
(23:36):
that your life was going tocontinue to take with that
choice?
How did you make that choice?
What?
What went through your head?
Speaker 5 (23:52):
you make that choice?
What?
What went through your headfirst of all?
Um, it wasn't like all the wayby my choice.
It's ordained because I'm I'mnot just a rapper's rapper.
I worked a job for 25 years andgot to retirement and that was
on a rotating swing shift, allhours, no weekends off, for 25
years.
When I'm telling you aboutcomplexity, I'm not just talking
(24:15):
like talking points, truecomplexity where if you want to
do this, you're going to have togo down to nothing to do it.
You know you're going to haveto and you're going to have to
love it in that state or youcan't have it.
What I've said is ordained.
(24:37):
I was able to set myself up ina way where I can monkey branch
from one source of income toanother in order to continue to
do this.
And I'm still doing it.
You know it's.
It's just like, uh, you know,not scared, not like oh my God,
(24:58):
what am I going to do?
Just knowing the what I'mordained to do, just knowing
what I'm ordained to do, myplace in it.
And you know, the complexitywas the part before I actually
get the recognition.
You know, because you can'treally do it for that.
(25:20):
You got to really do it becauseit's in your heart and because
I've done that and was able todo that.
There are things that are theresult of it, that are good
things.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah, what I really hear Maul you saying is that you
chose to take the proverbialroad, less traveled, and some
might say that that's the moredifficult pathway.
Probably true, but it's alsothe pathway to simplicity, and I
think for you, not taking thatroad would have left an
(25:57):
inauthentic mall and that wouldhave just meant a lifetime of
complexity.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
Right, yeah, absolutely right, like.
And it's not just you know, Iread books and read all these
stories, and as a youth I had afamily that was heavily engaged
in the arts and were alreadydoing things in the arts that no
one else has done, just likeI'm able to do now.
(26:25):
It's something in me, it couldbe from my bloodline, my lineage
, but it's something in us thatalways takes that route.
But then we end up discoveringnew things in the arts and it's
not disputable, it's, it's justfacts the entrepreneur world.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
We talk a lot about the lack of focus that's given
to the entrepreneur's mentalhealth and mind state, right?
Um, entrepreneurs, whetheryou're an artist or you're
running a washer, dryer businessor tech company, there's some
inherent motivation to go buildthat you have to do.
(27:10):
Some of it obviously is moreintrinsic than others, but at
the end of the day, the survivalof the fittest is what wins the
game.
And so many people, myselfincluded, will say you know, I
never cashed a big bank account,you know this or that, but man,
I've, I loved this thingbecause I just couldn't do
(27:31):
anything else.
I think that's a really greatlift off, maybe, to another
question, maul, which is thesimplicity is in the obvious.
You had no choice, right?
But if you're sitting heretalking to kids and you're
you're talking to people, whatare the lessons that you pass
along, that you can pass alongBecause I could see somebody
(27:54):
sitting here and going?
I don't have that, man, right.
I don't have that passion, Idon't have that fire.
Nothing's ordained in me.
You know that, dude, we've.
We run into people who are likeman, I just don't know.
So what is your advice to, tosomebody, based on your
experience, mall, who's tryingto find simplicity in their life
(28:14):
.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
Then you gotta have the right people around you.
You know, I mean, it can bereally hard with the wrong group
of mindsets around you.
What's simple for me, like yousaid, the road less traveled.
(28:37):
There's less people there.
There's less people to arguewith there.
There's less people to disagreewith you with there.
There's less people to arguewith there.
There's less people to disagreewith you with there.
There's less people thatbelieve in you there.
The road less traveled forsomeone like me is a peaceful
road, because I'm an actual lionand you see what I'm saying.
(29:01):
The peaceful road is, and yousee what I'm saying.
(29:28):
The peaceful road is yeah, youwant to snap and bite at me
until I do it back, and thenit's like I'm the bad guy, but I
just want to walk the peacefulroad.
It's hard, there's a lot ofsetbacks and pitfalls in it, but
I don't have to like get in,get into it with anybody.
I just have to figure out myown mental hurdles and and and
hop over them and I feel likethat's like a win, like okay, I
didn't know how to do that atfirst, but now I know how to do
it.
I mean, it's always like a winin life, even if it's a little
one, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
So surrounding yourself with people makes
perfect sense, but how have youbeen able to surround yourself
with the right people?
Maul, because the crowd thatyou used to hang with the people
and the incursion of stress andjust the violence I know you
told me and shared I've sharedmultiple times you were around
Like how do you do that?
(30:11):
How have you done?
Speaker 5 (30:12):
that Because surrounding yourself with the
right-minded people could be oneperson.
Yeah, it can literally be one.
It doesn't have to be a group.
I prefer it be a shrunken group.
But you see what I'm saying.
(30:33):
It could be just one personthat believes in you, that says,
hey, man, that's great.
What are you doing?
What's going on?
How do we do this or how do wedo that?
That versus one person doingthat in a group of five people
that aren't doing that isn't agood group, but that one person
in your group is a great group,wow.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Dude, these are value drops left and right.
I mean you've just written halfof our book for us.
I mean you've just written halfof our book for us, phil Mark.
Before we move into the speedround and the roll up, any other
thoughts you guys have orquestions?
Speaker 4 (31:11):
No, I just for and I love this word what we're
ordained to do, and try to hearthat as clearly as possible, and
(31:56):
when we hear it, surroundourselves with people.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
So I I appreciate those tips and those thoughts.
It's all a learned experience.
That's what I feel, bro,because something always you got
good.
It's like the whole analogygood soil, something's bound to
grow.
It might not grow this year, itmight not grow the next year,
but that seed might be downthere, ready to do something
(32:20):
miraculous, and you planted it.
So you know, you know, you justkeep going.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, well.
Well, two things actually cometo mind for me, and one is
validation, maul, that that yourwords and your presence are a
gift to those who choose tolisten and to you and be with
you in in your space.
And and the second is is justthe knowing that you took when
(32:49):
you decided to take a differentpathway.
What you probably didn't knowis that there were sojourners
and your people just waiting foryou on on that pathway, and so
you've you've connected withthem.
There are more to come, andit's just an amazing story and
journey that you, that you'retaking.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
Yeah, and you're going to have to walk that road
by yourself for a long while.
You might not see any friendsfor a while, you know you might
not see any people on the roadon the way.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
You know, what you just made me realize, phil and
and maul, is that people myselfand do this all the time we've
had these conversations, markand phil people confuse
complicated with hard right.
Shit's hard, hard things do notneed to be complicated.
I mean, I don't feel likethat's rocket science, it's just
(33:44):
sort of like you just cinchedit up in these last few minutes
right, absolutely, and I thinkthat's the gift of simplicity
and and, if I can if I can justno also say no, I feel like I'm
gonna say it anyways.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
You need to stop asking if I could just say
you're not it court.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
I yield to Mark your Honor, if I can.
You know, this show, mal, forus has been something that we
have felt ordained to do Right.
The three of us came togetherwith a feeling of, of a story.
I feel very blessed becauseI've got two showmates, who, who
(34:27):
are my people, who who are, whoare lifting me up and and I I
hope I get a chance to lift themup.
And this show is exactly whatyou're speaking about.
It's hard, it's time consuming,it doesn't pay any bills, it
but it's.
It's if we can help peopleunpack oh, that's a great,
that's a great word complexityin their life, in a way where
(34:48):
they get some tools and they'relike I haven't thought about
that or, oh, I relate to that,or, you know, my life sucks, but
after listening that show andhearing that my life's better
than that, or or I can use these, these tools and systems,
whatever.
Whatever it is like some, somesemblance of hope will help in
other ways.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
What you were saying real quick, real quick.
What you're saying is it's sotrue that everybody can relate
to it, because, although I saythat I've had these people who
didn't budge on my whole journey, they were right there by my
side.
I look to my right, they'reright there.
I look to my left they're rightthere, but the crowd's gone.
(35:30):
You see what I'm saying thecrowd and all the people that
are making noise and want to beinvolved because of the thing
you're doing, they're going tocome and go, but there's going
to be people that are going tobe right there by your side.
And my brother, prana Self, hasbeen with me on that block for
(35:53):
13 years straight and he's neverfaltered.
Do you know how many rappers Isee come and go because they
wanted to be?
I didn't make them big, eventhough I'm not.
I'm not here to like make youthe biggest rapper, but I'll
shine my light on you and thenyou know I share it.
(36:15):
I share my whenever people lookat me.
I can share with somebody elsebecause I don't feel like it's
mine.
It's all my life.
I'm going to just stand in hereand rap in front of the camera
all day?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
No, I'm going to give it to other people and let them
do it.
Maul, you are one big, huge hug, man.
Thank you for this.
But all good things must cometo a bridge, to another good
thing.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
And first of all, can I get a drum roll please?
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Thank you for that, mark Incredible Maul, welcome to
the other stall for what wecall the roll up.
Oh yes, sir, this is where wedig deep into the recesses of
your mind to extract theinformation that will change the
world forever, with a level ofquestioning that can only be
(37:14):
looked at as Einsteinian.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
Oh yeah, I like stuff like this.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Um, I will, I will, uh, we will, we will toss this
around, pardon the pun, uh, andeach of us has their couple of
quick questions.
So you ready for the first one.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
All right when it comes to toilet paper, over or
under.
Speaker 5 (37:36):
Oh under.
I just had to think about that.
Yeah, I like it.
It's literally the fastestroute of getting it out of there
all right, good mark single ortwo ply, two ply for real.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, if anybody ever says single, I'm really worried
.
Yeah, my man gross.
Okay, wet or dry, wet or drywhat Wipes man?
Speaker 5 (38:02):
Wipes.
Oh, the wipes, that were thedry wipes.
They have wet or dry wipes.
Yeah, yeah, wet.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
All right, okay, yeah , all right.
Next question what is yourfavorite potty time activity?
Speaker 5 (38:15):
My favorite potty time.
You're talking about actuallytaking a dump in the bathroom.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah, so when you got that extra time and you're just
kind of like you're doing yourthing, you know.
Speaker 5 (38:26):
I'm like everybody else, I'm on my phone, okay.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
That's why you never touch other people's phones, by
the way.
So before, phones Never.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
And I can't believe I'm saying this.
I cannot believe I'm sayingthis.
Can you see me blushing?
I'm like this is such a insidehe's a tomato right now I, so I
would take labels, uh, of thingsthat were in the bathroom.
Okay, and I would read thelabels, yeah, like in different
(39:01):
voices.
Yeah, and I would narrate.
I would narrate the labels.
Yeah, like in different voices.
Yeah, and I would narrate.
I would narrate the labels.
I would like I would list theingredients and I'd go from
different voices.
Speaker 5 (39:10):
It's yeah, everybody's done that at some
point in time.
You can't say you've actuallynever read a label of something
but out loud oh no, that's crazythat.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
No.
I was like sitting in thebathroom going.
You know these ingredientsshould not be used for and like
my mom like a commercial.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah, my mom would be like what are you doing in
there?
I'm like stop mom voiceovers,Right.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
See, I wasn't smart enough to read those words, so I
I did out're so much alike inso many ways it actually scares
me.
I would read that's how I cando a bunch of different voices.
I would read the articles inthe magazines that were in the
bathroom in different voices outloud, so it sounded like there
were a lot of people in mybathroom, right.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
So you had see, I can always tell you had a great
upbringing.
When you have magazines in thebathroom, that's like a, that's
like an upgrade, that's like a,like a it was.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
It was a big time of people right uh time time
magazine
Speaker 2 (40:14):
oh yeah absolutely I think I was trying to tell us as
we lived a privileged life wedid I did, yeah, because I had
privileged friends.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
I used to go over to their house and raid their
refrigerators like so there,there's actually one that you
forgot.
It's, uh, you know, classic andyou, you, everybody will agree
that yellow, classic nationalgeographic, oh yeah yes, yes,
they don't have, I also had mad.
(40:43):
Yes, they don't do it anymore.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
I also had Mad Magazine, so I don't know if any
of you had that but, I used toread Mad oh God.
Speaker 5 (40:49):
You're super privileged.
You are super privileged.
Oh my God, if you had MadMagazine, it was like this
person's going to be in thebathroom longer.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Highlight.
Highlight was the othermagazine.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Remember the Highlight High person's going to
be in the bathroom longer.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Highlight highlight was the other magazine when you
had the remember, the highlight,highlight.
Yeah, yes, all right, maul we.
It's time to raise the bar mark.
You want to start or not?
Phil you, phil you start phil.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Yeah, I'll do it, maul.
What's the one song that mightdrum around in your head over
and over again that you don'tcare if that happens?
Speaker 5 (41:23):
Now it's a song I actually like, or it's just like
something I'm like irritatedwith that won't get out of my
head.
It's the irritated thing thatwon't get out of my head.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
But it's still there.
Yeah, but that you don't mindthat it's there.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
Let me think about this.
I have a huge backlog.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yeah, you better tell us now Culture club karma
chameleon.
Speaker 5 (41:47):
It might've been a white wedding.
It might've been white wedding.
We're going to go with whitewedding.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
I will tell you.
As soon as I asked you thequestion follow the yellow brick
road popped up in my head andnow we won't leave.
So somebody, somebody asked adifferent question leave.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
So somebody, somebody ask a different question.
Yeah, please, so I'll go, I'llgo with, I'll go with favorite
quote.
So mal, what is your favoritequote?
Um?
Speaker 5 (42:11):
oh, I actually invented it.
Awesome, and it's f?
U, g, g u p.
Fuck up, awesome, fuck up.
It does exist on facebook.
It has a page.
It's literally the end, all beall and it can be used in all
(42:34):
kinds of ways.
Like you know, dashing down thesnow in the one horse open fuck
up, fuck up, there's a comedianReif that uses something
similar to that.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
He probably stole it from Matt.
He did.
Speaker 5 (42:50):
And you can put it on anything.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
But who are the artists that you admire, Maul I?
Speaker 5 (42:55):
admire a lot of artists.
I admire hundreds of artists.
It's almost I admire hundredsof artists.
But there's artists that youknow, I look up to and I look at
their body of work and I'm likethat's amazing, the stuff you
(43:15):
did.
It suited me at a time where Ineeded it and I got something
out of it.
That's what hip hop does.
My story is going to bedifferent from the next person's
story because there might beone or two phrases in there he
said that totally related totheir life at that time and
(43:36):
that's what hip hop music does.
But, nas, start from the firstalbum and just keep listening to
it till you're done witheverything and then you'll have
an understanding.
Because, see, here's the thingabout naz.
I would say naz raps about alot of gangster stuff.
He's a.
He's a rapper that's from thestreets but he respects the
(44:01):
culture.
So you're going to hear himconsistently respecting the
culture in whatever rap he does,and that's why I respect him so
much as an artist.
He's one of my favorite artistsBrad Jordan, scarface.
These are artists that are fromthe streets, but they are hip
(44:24):
hop artists.
You see what I'm saying.
They didn't take advantage ofthe culture.
They told real, true storiesabout what was really going on
in the country and they actuallyrespected the culture.
But there's people like in theculture that don't necessarily
do it like that.
(44:44):
I wouldn't call them hip hop,although it is rap and hip hop
is all rap.
You see what I'm saying.
I'm not one of those peoplelike I'm this uppity.
You know it's not hip hopbecause you're rapping and you
don't know about the history ofhip hop.
I still look at it as hip hopmusic to a certain extent, you
(45:09):
know, because everybody has theroom to grow into.
You know, whatever, whereverhip hop brings them.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, their own art form.
Speaker 5 (45:19):
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Well, awesome.
Well, maul this is.
This has been terrific, markPhil.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
some parting goodbyes to our guest and think about
our collective stories right Alltogether, and just to let you
know what a great sense of peaceI've been sitting in all night
(45:49):
as I've been listening to you.
So thank you so very much.
Speaker 5 (45:52):
I appreciate you.
I appreciate you, Phyllis.
Speaker 4 (45:56):
Maul, I'd echo that.
I'd just like to say that yougave us a gift and you gave our
audience a gift, and pleaseleave knowing that you provide
an amazing amount of inspirationand value to the, to the people
that you interact with.
You are such a beautiful,valuable person and you have
(46:21):
gifted us with so much today.
Beautiful, valuable person andyou have gifted us with so much
today.
So thank you for sharing that.
We need to be following whatwe're ordained to do and
surround ourselves with thepeople in order to accomplish
that.
So thank you for that, thankyou, thank you, sir.
Speaker 5 (46:36):
Thank you, sir.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Maul, we're obviously going to drop a bunch of stuff
in the show notes, but what'sthe?
What are the digits andinformation we need to have now
that you'd like to promote,Because we'd love for people to
be able to follow you to, uh, totrack, track what you're doing
and to help you on all?
Speaker 5 (46:53):
fronts.
You can follow um me onInstagram.
There's two pages.
There's the lyricricist Live 13years, no cursing, no violence
at the Jacksonville Art Walk.
You know Hulu episode 26 of ashow called Impact featuring
(47:14):
Jacksonville artist Maul Jones.
And they followed me around and, you know, discovered what I
was doing in Jacksonville.
My actual page on InstagramMal's Mind M-A-L-S-M-I-N-D.
Yeah, thank you guys for havingme here.
Shouts out to Pool of Dreams.
(47:34):
Yeah, there's a single out onYouTube.
You can do Mal Jones Pool ofDreams.
You'll see the video.
Some very good friends of mineout of athens, georgia, you know
, doing the the positive work.
So I gotta team up with themand you know, just uh, emphasize
(47:55):
that everybody has a dream,everybody can do it, everybody
can use their mind to go downthat road, that lonely road, and
find your people there.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
You know excellent man, thank you, thank you so
much for this.
Speaker 5 (48:13):
Thank you, guys for having me.
Man, y'all have a good day youtoo we'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Hey there, we sure do .
Hope you're enjoying the showand if you are, please tell your
friends like it, share it, putit all over the place, because
we're not just doing a podcasthere, we're trying to start a
movement.
Okay, that was probably a badpun intended, by the way, but
seriously, the complexity oftoilet paper is about creating
conversations in places wherethings just don't need to be
(48:44):
that complicated.
It's about finding thesimplicity in life and if we
work together, you know what wethink we can actually achieve it
.
So follow us on Facebook, sharethe show, give us your comments
and come back and join us inthe stall.
We just had the Lyricist Liveon our show, dropping bombs and,
(49:06):
wow, that's one hell of a visitto the stall to start off this
whole podcast.
What's your thoughts?
Anything stepping in front ofyou is a huge takeaway.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
I'll jump in and say I think the biggest thing that
is sitting with me is that Maulchose to take the road less
traveled.
And there has been some pain onthat and there has been some
really good fortune, maybe notin conventional ways, but in
ways that are obviouslymeaningful to him and meaningful
(49:42):
to those who have the goodfortune of intersecting with his
life.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
And he made a choice.
That and we need to rememberthis and I'm sure this is going
to come up over and over again,because it already has just in
our meetings and ourconversations, not just the
shows and that life is hard andthe complexity of toilet paper
is not to say that life isn'thard and that listening to the
(50:07):
show makes it easy.
It's to recognize wherecomplexity shows up, where we
make life more complicated thanit needs to be.
And and, of course, everythingabout choices sometimes feels
complicated.
And he had the staying powernot just to make the choice that
he did, but he made a choicethat the only way he was going
(50:31):
to keep his life more simple isif he never sacrificed the
integrity of what he wascreating.
So that's what jumped out ofthe stall to me.
Speaker 4 (50:43):
I think for me it was back to the complexity of
choice is what a hard decisionin an environment that wants you
to choose differently, thatencourages you to choose
differently.
He found simplicity and wasable to share simplicity with us
by staying true to his decision, and I think that that's really
(51:06):
beautiful that, regardless ofthe outside noise, he made a
choice that he believed in andthat made it simple for him.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Word to the bird.
Have you heard?
No, I'm out.
I don't want you guys to pout,because I know you're going to
get angry and you're going toshout, but I'm here to say
that's all I got today, so heyhey, hey, you get that.
Speaker 3 (51:36):
We're with you, buddy .
Speaker 2 (51:38):
You know I sometimes want to say not that I'm having
so much fun.
I just want to say thank you.
I appreciate you for putting upwith me, that's right.
Anyway, hey, listen.
You can hear the real lyricist,not this joker, al Emrick.
You can hear the real lyricistand learn all about him.
His information and details arein the show notes, including
(52:01):
links to his incredible TEDxpresentation.
And, as always, please followus on Facebook.
The Complexity of Toilet Paperis the name of our Facebook page
.
Once again, step into the stallwith amazing people, as well as
(52:30):
amazing ideas and concepts thatcreate complications in our
life, that lead to complexity,and we're here to help you
simplify your life, oneconversation at a time.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Did you say toilet paper?
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Everything complicated, one big, big mess.
I'm overthinking, I'm over, I'moverthinking.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
This is the complexity of toilet paper.
Sometimes, I wish we could go back to a time when
things weren't so complicated.
Welcome to the Complexity ofToilet Paper, the podcast that
dives into the everyday momentswhere we overthink, hesitate or
just get stuck.
I'm overthinking.
I'm over, I'm overthinking.
Let's hear it for the toiletpaper Through honest
(00:24):
conversations, unexpectedinsights and a whole lot of
humor.
Your hosts, phyllis Martin,mark Pollack and Al Emmerich,
are here to help you roll withit and make your life a little
less complicated.
One conversation at a time,that's right, dude.
The beauty of this is itssimplicity, speaking of which
(00:44):
it's time to enter the stall,put the lid down or not,
depending Get comfortable androll with it.
Oh worry, not, dear friend,it's really quite simple.
This is the complexity oftoilet paper.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Well, hello my throne mates.
How are you, oh throne mates,how are you, oh great.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Very, very good.
Do you find that in everyaspect of your life now you find
alliterations to toilets andbathrooms?
I mean, is it just invadingyour life All?
Speaker 4 (01:21):
the time All, the time All the time, all the time.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I find that people are now sending me memes and
ideas and all things toiletpaper, toilet bowls, toilet
brushes, two ply, single ply, noply, don't reply.
All the plies, all the plies,all the plies, don't reply.
All the plies, all the plies,all the plies, don't reply.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
I love that one.
I'm fearful what I'm going toget for the holidays.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
moving forward, I have a feeling it's all going to
be bathroom related, absolutelyWithout a doubt.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Oh, you know it's coming.
You know it's coming Instead oflike carafts of wine, we're
going to get packages of toiletpaper.
To carafes of wine, we're gonnaget packages of toilet paper or
a little cleaner.
So you know, you know what Isaw the other day?
Oh, my gosh, no, I, just I, Ididn't even think about this.
So you know, the empty rolls,the paper rolls.
I saw, uh, an art picture thatwas.
(02:17):
It was somebody had made a dogstrung together with string.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And the toilet paper empty rolls, we're going to get
toilet paper roll sculptures, Ibelieve is what you're looking
at.
Hey, I'll take it.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
My studio is not that exciting, so I could use some
toilet paper art.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, listen, today we are going to bust open the
throne and invite a guest intothe stall, and the topic is
choices.
Invite a guest into the stalland the topic is choices.
However, it's really, I think,a unique approach, and when you
think about choices, that'swhere so much confusion,
(03:03):
complication and complexityrolls into our lives.
And I know today we're going totalk about music.
Even the concept of music canbe complicated because there's
so many choices Like what is thething, mark and Phyllis, that
when it comes to choices, juston an everyday thing, always is
complicated for you?
So, I guess it yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
So I'll jump in and it's not every day, but I
literally was talking about thisto somebody the other day.
When Tim and I go to plan avacation, the overload of
choices and options, even if wenarrow it down to place, becomes
exhausting, because it's thenever ending.
(03:41):
Well, what about this?
Well, what about this?
It might be less expensive, itmight be more expensive, maybe
it should be this kind of a room, maybe it should be that kind
of a room.
What if we clicked over here?
What if we?
And it just is ridiculous,almost like buying a
refrigerator, that there are somany choices.
Eventually, I think, we justget worn down and pick something
, and I we got to find adifferent way to, to to come to
(04:04):
that, because it takes the funout of it for a little while,
and sometimes we end up doingnothing because we can't find
our way out of the swirling andswilling of.
Is it this, is it that?
Is it over there?
Is it over here?
Really, we need somebody justto call and say this is where
you're going.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
For me, it's always the death scroll of when I'm
looking for a show on likeNetflix or Amazon or whatever
Hulu.
I will literally spend my timelooking at the trailers and an
hour and a half has gone by andI haven't made a choice and I'm
like what the hell just happened?
Speaker 4 (04:58):
You know what it is for me?
I have this horrible FOMO, uh,fear of missing out, and so what
I end up doing is, I know thatchoice is going to lead
somewhere of vacations, Phyllisand I'm like, oh, this
destination looks cool, but thenthere's this destination.
So if I choose this destination, this is going to happen
(05:19):
conversation around our guestchoices and where his choice and
his continued choice has ledhim as an artist and um, and the
journey it's taken him on.
So I'm I'm really excitedbecause I I feel that when you
make that choice, you'recommitting to it, and I think
(05:41):
that's the scariest part.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Well said.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Well, mall Jones is our guest and he is going to
join us in the stall.
And you talk about an artist.
He's not just any artist.
He is Florida's first hip hopartist and he's actually
officially recognized as amaster folk artist.
And you say, okay, well, what'sunique about that?
Well, it's his freestyle rapskills that make it so unique
(06:08):
and that's what made him a first.
He's got a lyricist live show.
That's been part of an eventcalled Jacksonville Art Walk for
over a decade plus.
And the cool thing is herepresented America in Bristol,
england, for Shakespeare's 400thanniversary.
(06:29):
He took Shakespeare to thestreets with hip hop shakes.
We might even get a snippet ofit.
Or, if we can't hear the wholething, maybe we can possibly
drop it in the show notes orsomething like that notes or
something like that.
Either way, it is an incrediblegift to have him in studio
because he had a choice.
(06:50):
He could have gone a differentway with his music and he chose
to go the way he's going toshare.
He went, and why.
And it's going to make you dropyour drawers.
See what I did there.
Drop your drawers.
I like that did there.
Drop your drawers we got it.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
I like that.
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah, that's real good.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I don't believe either one of you.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I think you're just placating me.
It gets a C, solid C.
I don't even get a full flush.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Isn't that the shape of a toilet seat, a solid C.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
You did it.
Indeed, it's an O.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
A toilet seat?
No, it's an.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
O.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
It's a C, okay, oh no , okay, yes, I see it now, I see
it, okay, I had to look at itfrom the other angle.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
All right, anyway, now that we've destroyed a great
intro, let's break away for amoment and then reset.
It is time to head into thestall with Maul Jones on the
complexity of toilet paper.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
What the hell are you doing in the bathroom day and
night, Wanted to get out ofthere.
Give someone else a job.
I'm overthinking.
I'm overthinking.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
We are back in the stall.
Thank you, mark Maul in thestall.
I just realized that, maul, youare in a stall with two men and
a woman.
Women, woman, a woman, is that?
Is that weird sounds?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
like a bro it's something it's.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
You know, if I I got news for you.
If what we're going to talkabout and unpack and discuss
today gets discussed in abathroom stall, I I want to be
in that bathroom, I don't carewho's in it, because we got cool
stories and cool stuff to talkabout.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
Man, you do not want to fall in a bathroom stall.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
No, you don't.
I've got actually stories aboutthat, but we're not going to
talk about it on this program.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Wait a minute, Mark.
This guy just laid down a DrSeuss and you did not jump on it
.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
So well, first of all , let's do the informal formal
hellos and a quick story.
Okay, let's do it.
Maul, this is Mark and Phyllis.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Mark and Phyllis Hi Maul.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Well, hello Maul.
It's so great to have you inthe stall.
Oh really, come on Phil.
Well, hello Mal.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
It's so great to have you in the stall.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Oh really.
Come on, Phil.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It does make you tickled, doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Now I'm tickled, I know, I know.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Yeah, thank you for having me, man.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, mal, the reason you're on this show, my friend,
we like to kind of start thingsoff with what we call a value
equation.
Okay, off by uh, with what wecall a value equation, uh, which
is basically something Icreated, which is, it's a, it's
a cipher for deciphering value.
Wow, because I could think of alot of things about you that I
(09:38):
know personally.
Mark has read, phyllis has read.
There's a lot out there, butwhy this particular show?
And and the word to me thatmost clearly defines why you're
on this show, and also thisvalue that you create, is bridge
.
And the reason I chose bridge isthere are people who are
(10:00):
fortunate enough to build onebridge, or two bridges, or three
bridges in their lives, throughwork or through community.
I don't know a whole lot ofpeople who've built like five to
seven bridges.
You bridge culture with yourart.
You bridge art with yourculture.
You bridge education with yourart and your culture.
You challenge society normsthrough education, through your
(10:24):
art and culture.
You've chosen to bridge achallenge in the community by
giving these young artists avoice when they perceive that
they may not have one.
So I put heart there and thenthe last thing is mind.
I mean you, your art and yourcraft and and what you've done
has also challenged the mind.
I mean you, your art and yourcraft and and what you've done
(10:45):
has also challenged the mind.
And I'm sure we'll we'll hearsome of the tougher side, but
I've seen the positive side ofall of that.
And so you're a bridge, throughyour culture and art, to
education.
That's that's, that's justdripping into society and the
youth through your heart andyour mind, and the impact that
that you're having is is you'reputting.
(11:06):
You're putting hip hop on aplatform that a lot of people
would be exposed to, that havenever been exposed to.
I mean your Shakespeare stuffis like I mean the thousands,
and how many thousands of peoplehave seen you at Art Walk, man?
How many tens of thousands ofpeople over the years have seen
you at Porch Fest?
And so I just see that you'rethis bridge to all of these
(11:30):
different things.
That's creating the motivation,the energy, the awareness, the
excitement.
You're providing hope, and Iwas like man, what a story there
must be there when it comes tothe challenges you faced in the
successes.
And so the crew and I were likedude, let's step into the stall
for a short bit break apartsome of these things and have a
(11:58):
convo with the guy Maul.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
What's up, y'all, what's up, guys?
I'm really excited, feelblessed to be on the show with
you guys, to talk about what youguys talk about, because I'm
all for the conversation.
It's like literally the reasonwhy I do this is I crave
conversation.
You know, I lost my both of myparents when I was very young.
You know both of my parentswhen I was very young, you know
so and my father is who, like,introduced me to the arts.
(12:33):
So, not having them, but havingthose values that they
instilled in me, like the artsand what, what I was able to do
with it was kind of like thempassing it off to me before they
left, so I can have somethingto reach out to my community, to
share, like in a, in a positivelight.
(12:54):
So it it's very, uh, rewardingto be able to do that.
I mean not financially, butit's.
It's not financially but it'sspiritual.
You know the way I do it and Iguess the reason why I'm able to
(13:15):
do it for so long and Ispiritual, like release for that
that affects other people inthe community in a positive way.
You know it.
Yes, it's rap and it's very um,competitive and very um.
(13:40):
Any type of title you can slapon it.
It it's, it's adorned, but thetitles I know and what it's used
for and what I've actually beenused for it's those titles
aren't placed on what I do.
Much you know, and it should be, but that's the industry that
(14:01):
we're in, where it's it'scommoditized.
That's the industry that we'rein, where it's commoditized.
You know what I'm saying.
It's like if you're not sellingdrugs and cursing and calling
females bitches and hoes, you'renot valuable.
That's all I'm saying, becauseI guess it's how you see value
(14:27):
in my way, of what I was taughtfrom my parents and what they
taught me about and what mybrother taught me God bless the
dead who introduced me to hiphop as a kid.
The value he exposed to me wasmore so like what I'm doing
(14:48):
versus what's considered valuein this day and age.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Well, and I think, man, of course this happens with
some of the guests that come onMaul we unpack something and
we're like, oh, let's do anothershow on that, right, right.
First of all I want to saythank you for going there so
deeply, so quickly.
You know we kind of I didn'tmean to man, I'm sorry about
that.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
No.
No apologies needed.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
This is the apology.
Free zone man.
This is a toilet stall.
You can just put the shit awayand wipe it off and start over
and flush and we come back to it.
Dude, we do, we do this thewhole damn show.
Yeah, I mean, why wouldn't you?
You know, why wouldn't you?
But anyway, no, you went deepand and and I think it's
interesting, um, that we startedthere because we'd be curious
(15:40):
to know the word complexity okay, like, not yet how it shows up
in Maul's life, but just theword complexity.
How do you define that?
What does that mean to you?
Speaker 5 (15:57):
What complexity means to me?
Yeah, it's like an upgrade,because once anything complex
happens and you get through it,you're in a more advanced,
you're in a more advancedthinking human being, and that's
(16:19):
all I've ever dealt with.
That's why I have all of thesehistorical firsts.
There's major storyline behindany of that, and I never were
like hey, look at me, this iswho I am.
I never did any of that.
I just kept going through thecomplexities of being the artist
(16:41):
that I am and those things cameout of it.
So that's how I see thecomplexity that is.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Oh my God, we could end the show right now.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Mall.
That is one of the freaking,most beautiful things I've ever
fucking heard.
Yeah, I mean, that is just likewow.
I mean we don't try tosugarcoat the you know the candy
here and it's all flowers anddaisies.
I mean we're trying to evolvethis into something that gets
(17:13):
real, but I don't think there'sa whole lot of people I know of
that would look at that throughthat lens right off the bat.
Yeah, the bat, yeah.
(17:38):
Well then, with with thatbackdrop, dare I, I ask to take
us through?
Things become complicated,right, and then they create
complexity, yeah, and and thenyou navigate through it and and
in your, your, your definition,you come through on the other
side.
So you've already painted some,some, some canvas for us, with
the death of parents and andyour brother and these other
(17:58):
challenges.
But when you think about theword complicated, like what is
complicated, or what has beencomplicated, or what is
complicated today in in Maul'slife, like when you think about
this mountain, that'scomplicated, right, that's
creating complexity.
What is it that's most in frontof you today?
Speaker 5 (18:22):
Just because you know all that I've been through.
I graduated high school andfinished high school, through
all this, you know, but afterhigh school I wasn't really able
to go to college.
Like you mentioned, my father,my mother, my brother, but it's
(18:49):
my sister, my grandmother, mygrandfather too, it's literally
all of them While you were inhigh school.
Oh yeah, this was all highschool, but some of it was
before high school ended.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Wow, you lost all of those people, yeah, all of those
people.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
So that's why I'm saying I feel like I live the
life at a point where it's ablessing just to be here, like
that's the point of view I have,point of view I have.
It's hard to look at what otherpeople are doing and going
(19:28):
through and them not beingreally happy about that, but
they have all the things thatI've lost.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I have to say, from somebody who lost almost every
family member parents,grandparents, a brother by the
time I was 24, man, I definitelyfeel where you're coming from.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Yeah, I know you do.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
It's very difficult to hear someone who has had
opportunity and family to.
You know, I don't know how manytimes I'd love to call my
parents and ask them a question,but I celebrated 30 years since
my dad's been gone two days agoand my mom's been gone 23, 24
(20:08):
years at this point, you know,and so, yeah, I feel you, man,
it's difficult.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
But the thing is and I appreciate it, but I don't
need a pat on the back becauseit's all made me a stronger
person than the average person.
I know I have a way toughershell than the average person
that can just figure out how topush your buttons.
(20:36):
Push them and then you're done.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
I'm not that person.
Yeah, you stood at the gates ofhell already.
Yeah, yeah, and you were ableto to come back.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Yeah, you know, I, I, it's always.
But the thing it all goes downto why we're having this
conversation I had music, I hadhip hop music, I had that's the
only equation that was therewhen nothing was there.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
And that's what I do today.
How did the music uncomplicatethings for you?
Speaker 5 (21:12):
I was able to do it well and other people agreed.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Okay, but tell me more about.
Tell us more about that.
Like you were able to do itwell, which is incredible, and
you do that.
Like you were able to do itwell, which is incredible, and
and you do.
But but how did that provideclarity in your life where
things didn't seem so complex,like what did the music do for
you?
Speaker 5 (21:36):
it.
It allowed me to tell my storyin my way.
That was where I could that.
I can articulate it in my way.
It doesn't belong or it couldbe taken by anyone else unless I
give it to them, but everythingelse can.
(21:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So you, you, you had I mean, there's a whole power
control dynamic there, right,you, you lost, you had no
control over what you lost.
But is it that you couldcontrol this?
You could control your voice.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
No, not really.
It was the fact that, um, like,like, we started with the
complexity of learning how to doit, the, the, the complexity of
actually not like taking theeasy road with something that's
very difficult if you want to bea certain type of artist.
You know of a musician.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
There's so many types that you can just hey, I want
to be a musician, oh, I'm amusician, but you made a choice,
and your choice was I can godown this road like other hip
hop artists and make money andfall into the trap of whatever
(23:11):
that lifestyle is, or I cancontinue to complexify my life
and make it hard by helpingothers.
And you chose the hard path,and you chose the path that you
even said had less financialvalue for you.
How did you?
How did you, when you werethinking about the complexity
(23:36):
that your life was going tocontinue to take with that
choice?
How did you make that choice?
What?
What went through your head?
Speaker 5 (23:52):
you make that choice?
What?
What went through your headfirst of all?
Um, it wasn't like all the wayby my choice.
It's ordained because I'm I'mnot just a rapper's rapper.
I worked a job for 25 years andgot to retirement and that was
on a rotating swing shift, allhours, no weekends off, for 25
years.
When I'm telling you aboutcomplexity, I'm not just talking
(24:15):
like talking points, truecomplexity where if you want to
do this, you're going to have togo down to nothing to do it.
You know you're going to haveto and you're going to have to
love it in that state or youcan't have it.
What I've said is ordained.
(24:37):
I was able to set myself up ina way where I can monkey branch
from one source of income toanother in order to continue to
do this.
And I'm still doing it.
You know it's.
It's just like, uh, you know,not scared, not like oh my God,
(24:58):
what am I going to do?
Just knowing the what I'mordained to do, just knowing
what I'm ordained to do, myplace in it.
And you know, the complexitywas the part before I actually
get the recognition.
You know, because you can'treally do it for that.
(25:20):
You got to really do it becauseit's in your heart and because
I've done that and was able todo that.
There are things that are theresult of it, that are good
things.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah, what I really hear Maul you saying is that you
chose to take the proverbialroad, less traveled, and some
might say that that's the moredifficult pathway.
Probably true, but it's alsothe pathway to simplicity, and I
think for you, not taking thatroad would have left an
(25:57):
inauthentic mall and that wouldhave just meant a lifetime of
complexity.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
Right, yeah, absolutely right, like.
And it's not just you know, Iread books and read all these
stories, and as a youth I had afamily that was heavily engaged
in the arts and were alreadydoing things in the arts that no
one else has done, just likeI'm able to do now.
(26:25):
It's something in me, it couldbe from my bloodline, my lineage
, but it's something in us thatalways takes that route.
But then we end up discoveringnew things in the arts and it's
not disputable, it's, it's justfacts the entrepreneur world.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
We talk a lot about the lack of focus that's given
to the entrepreneur's mentalhealth and mind state, right?
Um, entrepreneurs, whetheryou're an artist or you're
running a washer, dryer businessor tech company, there's some
inherent motivation to go buildthat you have to do.
(27:10):
Some of it obviously is moreintrinsic than others, but at
the end of the day, the survivalof the fittest is what wins the
game.
And so many people, myselfincluded, will say you know, I
never cashed a big bank account,you know this or that, but man,
I've, I loved this thingbecause I just couldn't do
(27:31):
anything else.
I think that's a really greatlift off, maybe, to another
question, maul, which is thesimplicity is in the obvious.
You had no choice, right?
But if you're sitting heretalking to kids and you're
you're talking to people, whatare the lessons that you pass
along, that you can pass alongBecause I could see somebody
(27:54):
sitting here and going?
I don't have that, man, right.
I don't have that passion, Idon't have that fire.
Nothing's ordained in me.
You know that, dude, we've.
We run into people who are likeman, I just don't know.
So what is your advice to, tosomebody, based on your
experience, mall, who's tryingto find simplicity in their life
(28:14):
.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
Then you gotta have the right people around you.
You know, I mean, it can bereally hard with the wrong group
of mindsets around you.
What's simple for me, like yousaid, the road less traveled.
(28:37):
There's less people there.
There's less people to arguewith there.
There's less people to disagreewith you with there.
There's less people to arguewith there.
There's less people to disagreewith you with there.
There's less people thatbelieve in you there.
The road less traveled forsomeone like me is a peaceful
road, because I'm an actual lionand you see what I'm saying.
(29:01):
The peaceful road is, and yousee what I'm saying.
(29:28):
The peaceful road is yeah, youwant to snap and bite at me
until I do it back, and thenit's like I'm the bad guy, but I
just want to walk the peacefulroad.
It's hard, there's a lot ofsetbacks and pitfalls in it, but
I don't have to like get in,get into it with anybody.
I just have to figure out myown mental hurdles and and and
hop over them and I feel likethat's like a win, like okay, I
didn't know how to do that atfirst, but now I know how to do
it.
I mean, it's always like a winin life, even if it's a little
one, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
So surrounding yourself with people makes
perfect sense, but how have youbeen able to surround yourself
with the right people?
Maul, because the crowd thatyou used to hang with the people
and the incursion of stress andjust the violence I know you
told me and shared I've sharedmultiple times you were around
Like how do you do that?
(30:11):
How have you done?
Speaker 5 (30:12):
that Because surrounding yourself with the
right-minded people could be oneperson.
Yeah, it can literally be one.
It doesn't have to be a group.
I prefer it be a shrunken group.
But you see what I'm saying.
(30:33):
It could be just one personthat believes in you, that says,
hey, man, that's great.
What are you doing?
What's going on?
How do we do this or how do wedo that?
That versus one person doingthat in a group of five people
that aren't doing that isn't agood group, but that one person
in your group is a great group,wow.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Dude, these are value drops left and right.
I mean you've just written halfof our book for us.
I mean you've just written halfof our book for us, phil Mark.
Before we move into the speedround and the roll up, any other
thoughts you guys have orquestions?
Speaker 4 (31:11):
No, I just for and I love this word what we're
ordained to do, and try to hearthat as clearly as possible, and
(31:56):
when we hear it, surroundourselves with people.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
So I I appreciate those tips and those thoughts.
It's all a learned experience.
That's what I feel, bro,because something always you got
good.
It's like the whole analogygood soil, something's bound to
grow.
It might not grow this year, itmight not grow the next year,
but that seed might be downthere, ready to do something
(32:20):
miraculous, and you planted it.
So you know, you know, you justkeep going.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, well.
Well, two things actually cometo mind for me, and one is
validation, maul, that that yourwords and your presence are a
gift to those who choose tolisten and to you and be with
you in in your space.
And and the second is is justthe knowing that you took when
(32:49):
you decided to take a differentpathway.
What you probably didn't knowis that there were sojourners
and your people just waiting foryou on on that pathway, and so
you've you've connected withthem.
There are more to come, andit's just an amazing story and
journey that you, that you'retaking.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
Yeah, and you're going to have to walk that road
by yourself for a long while.
You might not see any friendsfor a while, you know you might
not see any people on the roadon the way.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
You know, what you just made me realize, phil and
and maul, is that people myselfand do this all the time we've
had these conversations, markand phil people confuse
complicated with hard right.
Shit's hard, hard things do notneed to be complicated.
I mean, I don't feel likethat's rocket science, it's just
(33:44):
sort of like you just cinchedit up in these last few minutes
right, absolutely, and I thinkthat's the gift of simplicity
and and, if I can if I can justno also say no, I feel like I'm
gonna say it anyways.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
You need to stop asking if I could just say
you're not it court.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
I yield to Mark your Honor, if I can.
You know, this show, mal, forus has been something that we
have felt ordained to do Right.
The three of us came togetherwith a feeling of, of a story.
I feel very blessed becauseI've got two showmates, who, who
(34:27):
are my people, who who are, whoare lifting me up and and I I
hope I get a chance to lift themup.
And this show is exactly whatyou're speaking about.
It's hard, it's time consuming,it doesn't pay any bills, it
but it's.
It's if we can help peopleunpack oh, that's a great,
that's a great word complexityin their life, in a way where
(34:48):
they get some tools and they'relike I haven't thought about
that or, oh, I relate to that,or, you know, my life sucks, but
after listening that show andhearing that my life's better
than that, or or I can use these, these tools and systems,
whatever.
Whatever it is like some, somesemblance of hope will help in
other ways.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
What you were saying real quick, real quick.
What you're saying is it's sotrue that everybody can relate
to it, because, although I saythat I've had these people who
didn't budge on my whole journey, they were right there by my
side.
I look to my right, they'reright there.
I look to my left they're rightthere, but the crowd's gone.
(35:30):
You see what I'm saying thecrowd and all the people that
are making noise and want to beinvolved because of the thing
you're doing, they're going tocome and go, but there's going
to be people that are going tobe right there by your side.
And my brother, prana Self, hasbeen with me on that block for
(35:53):
13 years straight and he's neverfaltered.
Do you know how many rappers Isee come and go because they
wanted to be?
I didn't make them big, eventhough I'm not.
I'm not here to like make youthe biggest rapper, but I'll
shine my light on you and thenyou know I share it.
(36:15):
I share my whenever people lookat me.
I can share with somebody elsebecause I don't feel like it's
mine.
It's all my life.
I'm going to just stand in hereand rap in front of the camera
all day?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
No, I'm going to give it to other people and let them
do it.
Maul, you are one big, huge hug, man.
Thank you for this.
But all good things must cometo a bridge, to another good
thing.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
And first of all, can I get a drum roll please?
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Thank you for that, mark Incredible Maul, welcome to
the other stall for what wecall the roll up.
Oh yes, sir, this is where wedig deep into the recesses of
your mind to extract theinformation that will change the
world forever, with a level ofquestioning that can only be
(37:14):
looked at as Einsteinian.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
Oh yeah, I like stuff like this.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Um, I will, I will, uh, we will, we will toss this
around, pardon the pun, uh, andeach of us has their couple of
quick questions.
So you ready for the first one.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
All right when it comes to toilet paper, over or
under.
Speaker 5 (37:36):
Oh under.
I just had to think about that.
Yeah, I like it.
It's literally the fastestroute of getting it out of there
all right, good mark single ortwo ply, two ply for real.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, if anybody ever says single, I'm really worried
.
Yeah, my man gross.
Okay, wet or dry, wet or drywhat Wipes man?
Speaker 5 (38:02):
Wipes.
Oh, the wipes, that were thedry wipes.
They have wet or dry wipes.
Yeah, yeah, wet.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
All right, okay, yeah , all right.
Next question what is yourfavorite potty time activity?
Speaker 5 (38:15):
My favorite potty time.
You're talking about actuallytaking a dump in the bathroom.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah, so when you got that extra time and you're just
kind of like you're doing yourthing, you know.
Speaker 5 (38:26):
I'm like everybody else, I'm on my phone, okay.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
That's why you never touch other people's phones, by
the way.
So before, phones Never.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
And I can't believe I'm saying this.
I cannot believe I'm sayingthis.
Can you see me blushing?
I'm like this is such a insidehe's a tomato right now I, so I
would take labels, uh, of thingsthat were in the bathroom.
Okay, and I would read thelabels, yeah, like in different
(39:01):
voices.
Yeah, and I would narrate.
I would narrate the labels.
Yeah, like in different voices.
Yeah, and I would narrate.
I would narrate the labels.
I would like I would list theingredients and I'd go from
different voices.
Speaker 5 (39:10):
It's yeah, everybody's done that at some
point in time.
You can't say you've actuallynever read a label of something
but out loud oh no, that's crazythat.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
No.
I was like sitting in thebathroom going.
You know these ingredientsshould not be used for and like
my mom like a commercial.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah, my mom would be like what are you doing in
there?
I'm like stop mom voiceovers,Right.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
See, I wasn't smart enough to read those words, so I
I did out're so much alike inso many ways it actually scares
me.
I would read that's how I cando a bunch of different voices.
I would read the articles inthe magazines that were in the
bathroom in different voices outloud, so it sounded like there
were a lot of people in mybathroom, right.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
So you had see, I can always tell you had a great
upbringing.
When you have magazines in thebathroom, that's like a, that's
like an upgrade, that's like a,like a it was.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
It was a big time of people right uh time time
magazine
Speaker 2 (40:14):
oh yeah absolutely I think I was trying to tell us as
we lived a privileged life wedid I did, yeah, because I had
privileged friends.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
I used to go over to their house and raid their
refrigerators like so there,there's actually one that you
forgot.
It's, uh, you know, classic andyou, you, everybody will agree
that yellow, classic nationalgeographic, oh yeah yes, yes,
they don't have, I also had mad.
(40:43):
Yes, they don't do it anymore.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
I also had Mad Magazine, so I don't know if any
of you had that but, I used toread Mad oh God.
Speaker 5 (40:49):
You're super privileged.
You are super privileged.
Oh my God, if you had MadMagazine, it was like this
person's going to be in thebathroom longer.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Highlight.
Highlight was the othermagazine.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Remember the Highlight High person's going to
be in the bathroom longer.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Highlight highlight was the other magazine when you
had the remember, the highlight,highlight.
Yeah, yes, all right, maul we.
It's time to raise the bar mark.
You want to start or not?
Phil you, phil you start phil.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Yeah, I'll do it, maul.
What's the one song that mightdrum around in your head over
and over again that you don'tcare if that happens?
Speaker 5 (41:23):
Now it's a song I actually like, or it's just like
something I'm like irritatedwith that won't get out of my
head.
It's the irritated thing thatwon't get out of my head.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
But it's still there.
Yeah, but that you don't mindthat it's there.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
Let me think about this.
I have a huge backlog.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yeah, you better tell us now Culture club karma
chameleon.
Speaker 5 (41:47):
It might've been a white wedding.
It might've been white wedding.
We're going to go with whitewedding.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
I will tell you.
As soon as I asked you thequestion follow the yellow brick
road popped up in my head andnow we won't leave.
So somebody, somebody asked adifferent question leave.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
So somebody, somebody ask a different question.
Yeah, please, so I'll go, I'llgo with, I'll go with favorite
quote.
So mal, what is your favoritequote?
Um?
Speaker 5 (42:11):
oh, I actually invented it.
Awesome, and it's f?
U, g, g u p.
Fuck up, awesome, fuck up.
It does exist on facebook.
It has a page.
It's literally the end, all beall and it can be used in all
(42:34):
kinds of ways.
Like you know, dashing down thesnow in the one horse open fuck
up, fuck up, there's a comedianReif that uses something
similar to that.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
He probably stole it from Matt.
He did.
Speaker 5 (42:50):
And you can put it on anything.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
But who are the artists that you admire, Maul I?
Speaker 5 (42:55):
admire a lot of artists.
I admire hundreds of artists.
It's almost I admire hundredsof artists.
But there's artists that youknow, I look up to and I look at
their body of work and I'm likethat's amazing, the stuff you
(43:15):
did.
It suited me at a time where Ineeded it and I got something
out of it.
That's what hip hop does.
My story is going to bedifferent from the next person's
story because there might beone or two phrases in there he
said that totally related totheir life at that time and
(43:36):
that's what hip hop music does.
But, nas, start from the firstalbum and just keep listening to
it till you're done witheverything and then you'll have
an understanding.
Because, see, here's the thingabout naz.
I would say naz raps about alot of gangster stuff.
He's a.
He's a rapper that's from thestreets but he respects the
(44:01):
culture.
So you're going to hear himconsistently respecting the
culture in whatever rap he does,and that's why I respect him so
much as an artist.
He's one of my favorite artistsBrad Jordan, scarface.
These are artists that are fromthe streets, but they are hip
(44:24):
hop artists.
You see what I'm saying.
They didn't take advantage ofthe culture.
They told real, true storiesabout what was really going on
in the country and they actuallyrespected the culture.
But there's people like in theculture that don't necessarily
do it like that.
(44:44):
I wouldn't call them hip hop,although it is rap and hip hop
is all rap.
You see what I'm saying.
I'm not one of those peoplelike I'm this uppity.
You know it's not hip hopbecause you're rapping and you
don't know about the history ofhip hop.
I still look at it as hip hopmusic to a certain extent, you
(45:09):
know, because everybody has theroom to grow into.
You know, whatever, whereverhip hop brings them.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, their own art form.
Speaker 5 (45:19):
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Well, awesome.
Well, maul this is.
This has been terrific, markPhil.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
some parting goodbyes to our guest and think about
our collective stories right Alltogether, and just to let you
know what a great sense of peaceI've been sitting in all night
(45:49):
as I've been listening to you.
So thank you so very much.
Speaker 5 (45:52):
I appreciate you.
I appreciate you, Phyllis.
Speaker 4 (45:56):
Maul, I'd echo that.
I'd just like to say that yougave us a gift and you gave our
audience a gift, and pleaseleave knowing that you provide
an amazing amount of inspirationand value to the, to the people
that you interact with.
You are such a beautiful,valuable person and you have
(46:21):
gifted us with so much today.
Beautiful, valuable person andyou have gifted us with so much
today.
So thank you for sharing that.
We need to be following whatwe're ordained to do and
surround ourselves with thepeople in order to accomplish
that.
So thank you for that, thankyou, thank you, sir.
Speaker 5 (46:36):
Thank you, sir.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Maul, we're obviously going to drop a bunch of stuff
in the show notes, but what'sthe?
What are the digits andinformation we need to have now
that you'd like to promote,Because we'd love for people to
be able to follow you to, uh, totrack, track what you're doing
and to help you on all?
Speaker 5 (46:53):
fronts.
You can follow um me onInstagram.
There's two pages.
There's the lyricricist Live 13years, no cursing, no violence
at the Jacksonville Art Walk.
You know Hulu episode 26 of ashow called Impact featuring
(47:14):
Jacksonville artist Maul Jones.
And they followed me around and, you know, discovered what I
was doing in Jacksonville.
My actual page on InstagramMal's Mind M-A-L-S-M-I-N-D.
Yeah, thank you guys for havingme here.
Shouts out to Pool of Dreams.
(47:34):
Yeah, there's a single out onYouTube.
You can do Mal Jones Pool ofDreams.
You'll see the video.
Some very good friends of mineout of athens, georgia, you know
, doing the the positive work.
So I gotta team up with themand you know, just uh, emphasize
(47:55):
that everybody has a dream,everybody can do it, everybody
can use their mind to go downthat road, that lonely road, and
find your people there.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
You know excellent man, thank you, thank you so
much for this.
Speaker 5 (48:13):
Thank you, guys for having me.
Man, y'all have a good day youtoo we'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Hey there, we sure do .
Hope you're enjoying the showand if you are, please tell your
friends like it, share it, putit all over the place, because
we're not just doing a podcasthere, we're trying to start a
movement.
Okay, that was probably a badpun intended, by the way, but
seriously, the complexity oftoilet paper is about creating
conversations in places wherethings just don't need to be
(48:44):
that complicated.
It's about finding thesimplicity in life and if we
work together, you know what wethink we can actually achieve it
.
So follow us on Facebook, sharethe show, give us your comments
and come back and join us inthe stall.
We just had the Lyricist Liveon our show, dropping bombs and,
(49:06):
wow, that's one hell of a visitto the stall to start off this
whole podcast.
What's your thoughts?
Anything stepping in front ofyou is a huge takeaway.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
I'll jump in and say I think the biggest thing that
is sitting with me is that Maulchose to take the road less
traveled.
And there has been some pain onthat and there has been some
really good fortune, maybe notin conventional ways, but in
ways that are obviouslymeaningful to him and meaningful
(49:42):
to those who have the goodfortune of intersecting with his
life.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
And he made a choice.
That and we need to rememberthis and I'm sure this is going
to come up over and over again,because it already has just in
our meetings and ourconversations, not just the
shows and that life is hard andthe complexity of toilet paper
is not to say that life isn'thard and that listening to the
(50:07):
show makes it easy.
It's to recognize wherecomplexity shows up, where we
make life more complicated thanit needs to be.
And and, of course, everythingabout choices sometimes feels
complicated.
And he had the staying powernot just to make the choice that
he did, but he made a choicethat the only way he was going
(50:31):
to keep his life more simple isif he never sacrificed the
integrity of what he wascreating.
So that's what jumped out ofthe stall to me.
Speaker 4 (50:43):
I think for me it was back to the complexity of
choice is what a hard decisionin an environment that wants you
to choose differently, thatencourages you to choose
differently.
He found simplicity and wasable to share simplicity with us
by staying true to his decision, and I think that that's really
(51:06):
beautiful that, regardless ofthe outside noise, he made a
choice that he believed in andthat made it simple for him.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Word to the bird.
Have you heard?
No, I'm out.
I don't want you guys to pout,because I know you're going to
get angry and you're going toshout, but I'm here to say
that's all I got today, so heyhey, hey, you get that.
Speaker 3 (51:36):
We're with you, buddy .
Speaker 2 (51:38):
You know I sometimes want to say not that I'm having
so much fun.
I just want to say thank you.
I appreciate you for putting upwith me, that's right.
Anyway, hey, listen.
You can hear the real lyricist,not this joker, al Emrick.
You can hear the real lyricistand learn all about him.
His information and details arein the show notes, including
(52:01):
links to his incredible TEDxpresentation.
And, as always, please followus on Facebook.
The Complexity of Toilet Paperis the name of our Facebook page
.
Once again, step into the stallwith amazing people, as well as
(52:30):
amazing ideas and concepts thatcreate complications in our
life, that lead to complexity,and we're here to help you
simplify your life, oneconversation at a time.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Did you say toilet paper?
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Everything complicated, one big, big mess.
I'm overthinking, I'm over, I'moverthinking.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
This is the complexity of toilet paper.
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