January 27, 2025 • 38 mins
Join us for an inspiring conversation with Sean from New Frontier Immigration, a former fighter pilot turned founder of one of America’s fastest-growing law firms.
Sean shares how his strategic mindset and business coaching helped him and his wife build a team of 120 employees and grow their business from the ground up, all while navigating challenges without local connections. He also explores the cyclical nature of business growth, how their firm expanded into real estate, and the importance of a strong team in scaling a company.
In addition to his business insights, Sean sheds light on the pressing need for immigration law reform and the vital work his pro bono foundation is doing in Arizona.
This episode is about more than business—it’s about the personal stories and growth that drive change and make a lasting impact on communities. Sean’s journey shows how smart decisions can transform both businesses and society.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Confidence Curve with Ashley and
Rick Bowers, where personal andprofessional journeys define
the art of scaling withconfidence.
Whether you're a businessleader navigating change or
someone seeking personal growth,this podcast offers insights
and actionable advice to helpyou thrive.
Now let's dive into today'sconversation with our incredible
(00:26):
guest.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to the Confidence Curve.
Myself, ashley Bowers, and mybusiness partner husband Rick
Bowers, are here to host.
We have our guest Sean with NewFrontier Immigration.
We are so excited to have youhere with us today and getting
to learn a little bit more aboutyou over the last week or so.
I'm just really intrigued withall of the work you're doing and
the good cause that you'refighting as a part of that.
(00:51):
So if you want, just kick usoff.
Tell us a little bit about youand the business and how you got
started.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Thank you for having me on.
I'm super excited to be heretoo.
Actually, our company justreached out from your last
podcast, where it was theTeleverde Foundation, and we're
going to start partnering withthem, so it's really cool.
So I've enjoyed listening toyour podcast, so keep it up.
My background I'm the CFO ofNew Frontier Immigration Law.
We have two locations here inthe Valley, in Phoenix, and
(01:19):
we're expanding to Californialater this year, texas next year
and we are one of the fastestgrowing law firms in America the
fastest growing law firm inArizona and one of the top 1000
fastest growing companies inAmerica and our specialty is
immigration law.
We do family based immigration.
We do a little bit ofeverything, but primarily family
(01:40):
based, and we have about 120employees family-based.
And we have about 120 employees.
Most of them are actuallyremote.
I guess we're maybe 50-50 nowbut as our business grew so much
during COVID, we hired a lot ofremote employees.
Now we're about half and halfremote or local.
Prior to this, I was a fighterpilot in the Air Force for 20
years and my wife founded thecompany when we moved to Phoenix
(02:04):
, which was about five and ahalf years ago or so.
At that time we'd been livingoverseas for five years.
We moved back to America and mywife just said I don't want to
have a boss, I don't want towork for anybody, I'm going to
open a business.
I was like, okay, that soundscool.
What do we do, you know?
And she wisely asked fordirections.
So we hired a business coachand started out and I've been
(02:27):
kind of with her since day one,helping on the financial side of
things, where she is the brainsand the genius and the legal,
the marketing and all that goodstuff behind it.
As the company grew, I retiredfrom the Air Force and I'm now
full time with New Frontier.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Awesome.
Well, first of all, thank youso much for your service in the
military, but then alsoeverything you're doing now, and
I want to dig into, kind of,the cause behind what you're
doing and the people that you'resupporting.
But before we do that, youmentioned business coach and
when we talked previously, youtalked about that being one of
the very first decisions thatyou guys made in your business,
and obviously there's a lot ofinvestment and risk and
(03:06):
vulnerability that comes alongwith it.
So how did you guys decide totake that plunge as your first
big decision and, looking back,you know how much do you believe
in that decision as a firststep for people that are
starting their businesses?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Well, hindsight's easier to look back and go oh,
look at that great decision wemade, but I can tell you it
wasn't easy sitting around.
We were at this little Formicatable sitting in the temporary
lodging of Luke Air Force Baseand at that time we just moved
back from overseas.
We had no house, no cars, nonothing, and we didn't know
anybody in Phoenix.
(03:40):
We had no business connections,we had no family, we had no
clients or anything and the veryfirst thing we did was spend
money on a business coach and atthat time was the probably
single largest investment we'dever made, except once before
we'd bought a house and sold it,but that was like the biggest
investment we'd ever made and mywife was all for it.
(04:01):
She was like we're going to dothis, this is going to be great,
and I was a bit bit hesitantand I think what finally brought
me around was the idea that umand I told you this before even
Michael Jordan in his prime andI like basketball at his peak he
had a coach, he had more thanone coach, and to think that the
goat, the greatest of all time,needed a coach and had a coach,
to think that I didn't need acoach in business, actually
(04:23):
seems silly in hindsight becauseit's not something I had done.
I had been in charge oforganizations, I was a commander
of a fighter squadron withhundreds of people and millions
of dollars in assets, but I hadnever founded a business from
the ground up, so to think thatI could step into it and do it
successfully from day one wasjust kind of crazy.
So in hindsight the investmentlooks minuscule, like wow, we
(04:47):
have now, you know, had a returnon investment of probably 1000x
on that first business coach.
But it was a game changer forus and it set us up for success
from day one.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Coaching is one thing that I never thought I would do
and as part of our apexadvisory business, I do a lot of
coaching.
It's probably the majority ofwhat I've been doing lately and
it's it's really amazing becausewhen you get in with a person
that you're coaching and workingwith that wants to get better,
it's it's really just asking thequestions and then it's all the
(05:21):
words that come out of theperson that you're coaching it.
They have all the words, they.
And then it's all the wordsthat come out of the person that
you're coaching.
They have all the words.
They just haven't thought ofthose things in a certain order
and so how you can kind of putthat in place and really it's
exciting to watch the lightbulbs go off above their heads
and all of that kind of thing.
So, as you've kind of built thebusiness, you said you're up to
about 120 employees and you hadover 300 people when you were
(05:46):
in the Air Force with thesquadron.
What are some similarities ordifferences that you see in
managing the two differentgroups of people?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
It's interesting because people are people and it
is something that it takes time.
As you're in the startup phase,you go through a lot of people
to find the right people, andthen you reach kind of a
critical mass where you canactually afford to hire
leadership and people to helpyou manage and run other people.
And that's when things reallystart to take off.
(06:14):
And we're in a phase right nowand that's what we say 2025 is a
year of people for us, becausethat's all that it is.
We could sit down all day andcome up with great new ideas of
ways to grow the business andthings that we can do, but if we
don't have the right peoplethere to help us launch these
initiatives, then it doesn'tmatter.
And so, between being in themilitary and now being in
civilian life, people managementis a lot of the same stuff
(06:38):
across the board, but one bigdifference was coming out of the
military.
You come from an organizationthat's been around for 100 years
or more.
So when I took over a squadronwith 287 people in it, I was
given the playbook, and it's theplaybook that has worked for
decades and decades before Iever took that role, so I could
(06:59):
come in and tweak it a littleand add my own flair to it and
maybe make it 1% know 1% better.
That is completely differentthan starting with a blank sheet
of paper and saying how do Iget all these people on board
with what we're about to do?
How do I make sure they knoweverything, from the tiniest
detail, like what to where towork, to the most important
thing like how to correctly filea case to USCIS.
(07:21):
And so that, I would say, isthe big difference is in a
startup or even in a civilianbusiness, when you don't have
all of this infrastructure inplace.
There's a lot more to it andgetting everybody rowing in the
same direction.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, and obviously you guys have done
a tremendous job in scaling theorganization.
Congratulations on landingtwice on the Inc 5000 of fastest
growing companies.
That's amazing, you know.
It feels like every year, Iknow, with leading companies.
You're working through things,you think you've solved it and
then and I think you mentionedthis too then all of a sudden
you're I feel like you're rightback in that circle, solving the
same problem and on the surfaceit's easy to look at it that
(07:58):
way, right, that it's the sameproblem, but you have more
people, different people, morecustomers, you know more
policies, so the solve is verydifferent.
You're really not fixing thesame thing over and over again.
So how have you guys reallyapproached that challenge and
that feeling like you're on thathamster wheel that you kind of
can't get off as it relates togrowing the business?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Well, we've fought it a lot in the beginning,
thinking why is everythingbreaking, until we finally
realized we view our business askind of a circle or a wheel,
and each section of that wheelis a different aspect of our
business.
And as we work our way aroundit, everything starts for us
with marketing.
We put money into marketing orevents or whatever we're going
to do, and that brings us leadsand brings us, eventually,
(08:38):
clients, which is our salesdepartment.
Those clients are onboarded andnow we have to do the work and
that's our operations.
And we work our way around thiscircle and when we get back
around to the end, we haverevenue in the door.
We take a percentage of thatand we put it back into
marketing.
We start our way around thewheel again, but what we realize
is that it's not a circle, it'smore of a spiral, because we
(08:58):
started so small where, you know, my wife was the first employee
and only employee for a littlewhile, and she was the director
of marketing, director of sales,director of people, you know
all those things.
And then, as we went around thewheel, it wasn't that everything
was broken, it's just that we'dgrown out and our wheel got
bigger and so it ended up beingmore of a spiral, because each
time around, instead of havingtwo new employees to manage, now
(09:21):
we had 20 new employees, andthe policies that worked for two
people just don't carry over to20 people or 100 or more than
that.
So while in the beginning itfelt like everything was broken,
we came to realize that it'snot that it's broken, it's that
we're growing and we have tocontinually revisit those.
And there have been times wherewe actually skipped writing an
SOP for something, because wesaid, hey, we're growing so fast
(09:44):
that in three months, if wewrite this SOP, it's going to be
completely overcome by events,obe, and so we're just going to
skip it right now.
Here's our general guidelines.
See you again in six months.
Keep working on it.
And so that's kind of how we'vehandled the rapid growth.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah Well, and as you start to implement policies and
procedures and things like thattoo, you know you hear the
dreaded words of we're becomingcorporate right from employees
and it's like you can havestructure and give guidance
which can actually really beempowering and can, you know,
give a lot of autonomy toemployees and things.
But we definitely always talkto clients and have heard
(10:20):
personally of well, why do wehave to do this?
We didn't used to have to havea PTO policy or we didn't used
to have to have that and butwhen you start to get in that 50
, 100, 200, 300, it really makesa big difference in how the
operation can run.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
That's so true.
And when you're trying to addvalue to your clients, you start
out and it's just you and yourideas and you're creating this
company and you're constantlyfinding ways to add value.
And when you bring people on,you can't just carbon copy your
memory into their mind and saydo all these things.
And so, in order to show peoplewhat you're trying to
accomplish, you have to startputting these policies in place
(10:54):
and as you grow and for us, wehave a plan, and now it's our
2035 plan, but it goes out 10years and we've told our whole
staff we're a startup.
For these 10 years, we're fiveyears in 10 more years we're
still in the startup phase.
So expect that the sops wewrite today will probably be
rewritten in another year or two, when we have multiple
(11:15):
locations in other states andthese you know phoenix-based
rules that we have don't workanymore right, yeah so, as
you've, as you've built the, thebusiness, um, from our
conversation the other day, youkind of were able to build
businesses because of thebusiness.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Can you talk a little bit about that and how the
things that you were alreadydoing now you could package that
and create a whole otherrevenue stream?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yes, we call it our ecosystem, okay, and we kind of
think of it like how they builtout the iPhone.
You know, when they built theiPhone they weren't maybe they
were, but they weren'tnecessarily thinking that they
were also going to control themarket on music in the world and
that they were going to controlthe market on podcasts and on
how you delivered your email.
They just built a great productthat was a phone and everything
else added on.
(11:58):
Apple now has this ecosystemwhere you can't get your
information from anywhere exceptthem, and so that's kind of the
concept.
And we built the law firm asour first business and our
largest business.
But as we had other needs Imentioned we have about 60
remote employees.
We bring many of them toPhoenix for training or for a
set amount of time to come hereand do.
(12:19):
They might appear in court orthey might just come for events.
We were spending a ton of moneyon hotels and per diem and all
those things.
So we said, why don't we justcreate a space where our
employees can stay, and when wedon't need it for the business,
we'll rent it out?
And so from that grew a sidebusiness.
We have 11 Airbnbs, and then wealso bought some multifamily.
(12:41):
After that, we saw a lot ofvalue in buying commercial
property that we could thenoccupy as our company and rent
out to other people who needspace, and so each one of these
things became its own separatebusiness, its own separate
enterprise, and we even hiredpeople to help us run that.
So we don't do anything withour Airbnbs.
We have a couple employees onthat side of the house who
(13:03):
handle that stuff.
We have a property managementcompany that handles our
commercial property.
We now have a university andthat one stemmed out of we have
120 employees.
We you know, when you're in astartup phase, you're going
through like five employees amonth because we would hire 10
or 20 at a time, train them up,and only 10 of them would still
be around in a month because,for whatever reason, so we're
(13:24):
training so many people that wejust wanted to make it
repeatable and simple, and so weformalized how we were training
and we built it into an onlineplatform.
We use Kajabi.
A lot of people use that foronline education.
But then we realized that therewas a need elsewhere for that
same education, and so we soldlicenses to other immigration
law firms who need to traintheir employees.
(13:46):
We have a very robust platformto become a legal assistant or
paralegal specific toimmigration law, and we share
that with other immigration lawfirms and one of the main things
and one of our core principlesis the belief that there's an
abundance and so there is nobodyanywhere in America or in
Phoenix or anywhere that is ourcompetitor.
We're not competing withanybody.
(14:08):
There are more than enoughclients for everybody.
There's more than enough to goaround, and that's kind of our
view of everything.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Okay, you know we started the conversation
mentioned education.
Now we started the conversationwith the coaching that you guys
elected to receive in thebeginning of your business.
How has your approach toeducation for you and your wife,
and really the on the businesseducation, evolved since you
started?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
It's evolved a lot.
We'd always been the kind ofpeople who valued education we
both have degrees fromuniversity and master's degrees
but there's a lot of value topersonal growth and that's
education too, and a lot ofvalue to personal growth and
that's education too.
And what we found was, as ourcompany grew, if we didn't grow
with it, we wouldn't be ready.
(14:52):
So when we, you know, first hitsix-figure company, we had
never run a six-figure companybefore, so we had to learn some
new things and we had to grow inorder to be good leaders of
that and good stewards of ofthat company.
When we hit seven figures forthe first time, we had to learn
how to be business owners of aseven-figure business and how to
take care of our people and howto correctly run that business.
(15:13):
And again when we hit eightfigures.
As you hit all these differentmilestones in your business, you
have to grow with it or thebusiness is going to leave you
behind.
And unfortunately that doeshappen with employees sometimes,
where they join at one stageyou're still in growth mode and
they don't stay around becausethey don't want to grow with it.
But I think that personaldevelopment and personal growth
(15:33):
precedes professional growth.
And if you want to grow in anyindustry and anything you're
doing professionally, you havegot to start by looking inward
and working on yourself, and soboth my wife and I invest a lot
in our personal development.
We've had now we've worked withthree different business
coaches, each for about two tothree years.
We both independently work,have coaching, and we also do a
(15:56):
lot of offsite events.
Once or twice a year we'll goto conferences, retreats, those
sorts of things just working onourselves, because you know we
wanna keep leading this companyfor many years to come and we
have to grow with it.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
It's so funny you say about you know the six figure,
the seven figure.
I remember I had an executivecoach and I was president of the
company that I was working atand time was like a $7 million
company and our growth goal wasto get to 10.
In that moment, you know, inthe near future, what am I going
to do?
How am I going to know what todo?
(16:30):
And every time we would havethat conversation he would just
look at me and say did you knowhow to do it when it was seven,
before you did it?
Did you know how to do it?
And you do like.
You learn along the way, andeven just fast forward to my
days at HomeSmart when the ownerwas like hey, you know, I want
you to take this thing public.
You are crazy.
Like, let's hire you a team, Idon't know how to do that.
(16:51):
And he's like hire yourself ateam that knows how to do that
and surround yourself.
And I think that's a big pieceof the growth right.
You never want to be thesmartest person in the room when
you're leading a company.
You want everyone else aroundyou to be able to lift the
organization up and lift yourpeople up and continue that
cause and to be able to learnfrom each other.
So it is interesting because welook forward and we're like,
how are we going to do that?
And we look back and we're likehow did we not know how to do
(17:12):
that?
Because you just, you learn inthat journey too, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I think that's really insightful and we try to not
focus on the how, which is wherenaturally our instinct is to go
to how are we going to do it.
And we try to remove ourselvesfrom that and say, you know, why
are we going to do it?
Speaker 4 (17:28):
And and really focus on that and the how will focus
on that and the how will willpresent itself as you go.
So, as we've talked a lot aboutpeople and you brought up the,
the hiring and some of the timesin the early days where you
would hire 10 and you would lose5 and then you'd hire 20, so
how is the hiring process?
As you've gone over 100 andover the last year or so, have
(17:49):
you made shifts in the hiringprocess or what are some of the
things that have really made adifference for you in hiring the
right people for theorganization?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
I think a big shift is that we got better and, just
like working with the coach, youknow you start out and you
can't make a free throw andeventually you practice enough
times that you get better at it.
So I think that was a key thingis we got better at
interviewing and hiring.
That was a key thing is we gotbetter at interviewing and
hiring.
And then we also got moreclarity because we spent more
time on the big picture, on whatwe're trying to accomplish,
(18:19):
looking towards the future andreally spending time writing out
our needs and when we gotreally clear on what we needed
and we still do this.
In fact, we were doing this lastnight for a new position that
we're hiring for right now,trying to become really clear on
exactly what we're hiring for,because until you're clear on
that, you're never going to findthe right person.
You'll find plenty of goodpeople there's tons of great
(18:39):
applicants out there in everyjob we've ever put out but if
you're not clear on what you'rehiring for, then you're not
going to find the right match.
In the beginning it was alittle bit of the you know, try
to get as many people as we canand find a couple good amongst
the group of people and we'vereally refined that down to
trying to find the right people.
(19:00):
And then the last part is Imentioned earlier that critical
mass when we reach the pointwhere we could actually hire a
director of people and cultureand we could actually hire a
recruiter, and we start.
You know, those people come inand make us exponentially better
than ourselves alone could doit focusing a little bit back in
(19:20):
on the people that you guysserve.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Why don't you tell our audience a little bit about
that and the critical work thatyou're doing for a very special
group of individuals?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
you bet.
So at new frontier immigrationlaw we do family-based
immigration and our primaryclients are actually a T visa,
which is for human trafficking.
We also our two other main casetypes are VAWA, which is
Violence Against Women Act, andU visa, which is essentially if
someone commits a crime againstyou while you're in the United
States, you assist lawenforcement.
There is a path to a green cardthat way.
(19:50):
There's a common misconceptionabout immigration that people
can just cross the border.
You know, come into our officeand we'll, we'll be able to help
them stay, and that's not howit works.
You know, for all the politispoliticizing of immigration that
there is.
It's actually really, really anet positive for our country.
And you know we could.
(20:11):
We could go off on that topicall day, but the point is
there's a lot of people outthere who really need help.
I'm a first generation American.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
No problem.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, sorry, I love the passion.
And the people that we help arewhat it's all about, and our
mission and our vision, I shouldsay, for a new frontier is to
help one million people livefree in the United States.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Now that's, it's absolutely amazing.
You mentioned the TelevertiFoundation earlier and I always
take a chance to give them aplug.
I'm on the board of thefoundation and you know they are
assisting people with reentryafter being incarcerated.
And just the number of womenyou know who are incarcerated,
um, over 60% of them havechildren, and so breaking the
(20:58):
cycle and changing things and,uh, a lot of the people you're
helping, right, you want tobreak those cycles and you want
to and and point them onto abetter life, and housing is a
big issue.
Um, when you said multifamily,I'm like, oh yes, you and
Michelle are going to get along.
Great, it is.
There's so many misconceptionsabout different pieces of the
population and differentsituations in our society and if
(21:19):
we really dig in deep, there'sa lot of perception changes that
can happen.
I was one of those people andwent into the prison to tour it
before getting on the board andyou know, just every interaction
you have changes yourperception and you really want
to.
You have changes yourperception and you really want
to.
You know, do more and and helppeople who, who want to be
helped.
These are people who want to behere and um and have a better
(21:41):
life and have that opportunity.
So I think it's absolutelyamazing of what we're all human
at the core.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
You guys said that in your podcast, but we're all
human at the core, yeah, youknow, and everyone is just
trying to live their own versionof their best life.
No one should be judged for theworst act that they do.
And people who come here sooften our main client type being
TV says human traffickingPhoenix being so close to the
border, we have a lot of peoplewho've been labor trafficked.
They're brought here to workand then their employer holds it
(22:07):
over them, withholds paychecks,threatens to call ICE those
sorts of things in order to makethem work longer hours and
basically they're being takenadvantage of.
So we have an entire populationof human beings living here in
Phoenix among us that are justdisenfranchised because they
have no recourse and they'reliving in the shadows.
And they're already here andthey're contributing to our
(22:28):
society.
They say that if, and I'll givesome stats and I'll give some
numbers.
Most of this comes from PeterZayhan and his research
Excellent book called AccidentalSuperpower Talks about why
America is the global superpowerand why it will remain that way
, and he has an entire sectionon immigration and he talks a
lot about it.
I like his work because it'svery scientific.
(22:48):
I have a background inengineering and so I'm very much
like numbers and engineering.
But if we didn't have all theundocumented people who are
currently here serving ourcommunity, that inflation would
have been 8% to 10% over thelast couple of years because of
the lack of a workforce.
And when you talk about massdeportations or the number of
(23:09):
people who are here undocumented, I think what it comes down to
is that America is a nation ofrule followers, and I get that.
I was in the military.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Where else do you find?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
more rules than the military, and every person I
have talked to, no matter wherethey are on the political
spectrum or whatever theirpersonal beliefs are, to a
person they have said I'm finewith immigration as long as it's
done legally.
And so I think that there'skind of this block around the
idea of illegal immigration,somebody who came into this
country illegally versussomebody who came here legally.
(23:40):
But the misunderstanding thereis that there really isn't a way
to come here legally.
That's because our system isbroken and needs to be fixed.
My wife and I went to Washingtonback in December and we met
with numerous senators fromArizona and other places to talk
about immigration.
And to a person, both sides ofthe aisle, everyone agreed yes,
(24:00):
100%, we need immigration reform.
And we said this is amazing,this is so great.
Are you going to do anything?
And they said no, no, it's toopolitically charged.
We're not going to touch thattopic right now.
So it's interesting that onboth sides of the aisle,
everyone's in agreement that weneed to fix it because our rules
are a mess, but nobody'swilling to do anything about it,
and so that's what we're tryingto do yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Hopefully you'll have some some luck in that case,
because it's just.
It doesn't make any sense whenyou can agree on something but
don't do it for politicalreasons.
It just we don't want to go topolitical here.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
We find that in our businesses too right.
You'll have team memberssitting around a boardroom table
and everyone will be looking atwhat the problem is and whether
it's a people problem, whetherit's a long-term process problem
or my favorites were alwayslike well, the Ashley said thing
and it's like well, when did Isay that?
Five years ago?
Why don't we address that again?
And when everyone can agree andthen have that safe place to
(24:54):
move forward and ask questionsand kind of create some of that
change in organizations oranything that we're doing right,
it can be really powerful.
But we do tend to paralyzeourselves, I think paralyze
ourselves in agreement, which isa very interesting human
behavior.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Yeah, that's so true.
You know, when you look at jobsin America, right we're at,
joblessness is pretty low rightnow.
We actually we need more peopleto work.
But there's an interestingthing is that there is no limit
to the number of jobs.
So America has 150 million jobsor something.
I don't remember the lastnumber.
But China has like 700 millionjobs.
(25:31):
It's not because they have moreindustry, they have more people
, and with more people itcreates more jobs.
And if an engineer moves to themiddle of nowhere in Wyoming and
starts a business out of his orher garage and they start
making widgets and then theyhire someone to come work with
them, well, that person movesthere and now you have two
houses.
And then someone else movesthere to help them package and
ship and they have kids, and nowyou need a school and doctors.
(25:55):
You can literally build a cityout of nothing with an idea.
And those jobs didn't existbefore.
Our company didn't have 120jobs five years ago.
So there are more than enoughjobs for everybody.
And the more people that comehere, it stimulates our economy.
Back to Peter Zajan's work.
He talks about a healthyeconomy has what's called a
demographic pyramid, that is,fewer people at the top, which
(26:16):
is the older people, and thenyounger people, more of them at
the bottom.
Almost every country in theworld has an inverted pyramid
right now, and the worst isChina, as we have heard all
about.
That America is.
We're actually pretty healthy.
It's not ideal, but it's prettyhealthy.
But one interesting thing isthat we have this great big
lever that if we want to pullthis lever, we can change the
(26:37):
shape of our pyramid.
We can make it wider at thebottom or at the top.
We can literally do whatever wewant with this lever.
We just choose not to do itbecause we're all in agreement
but we disagree that someoneshould move it and China can't
do that.
They can't just open the gatesand bring in some more people to
help them fix their economy and, frankly, if you read Peter
Zahan's work, you'll see thatthey're headed for a rough
(26:59):
century.
Based on, their population isexpected to be cut in half by
the end of the century.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
I thought it was interesting when you talked
about.
It's a simple calculation thatfrom the time someone's born, 20
years later they enter theworkforce, and so 20 years from
now, we know how many we'regoing to need.
And it's just a calculation.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Yeah, and going back to math and numbers, because I
love it, that's exactly right.
We can tell you with 99.9%accuracy how many babies were
born in 2024.
So you can now look at it andgo well, with about 99% accuracy
, I can tell you how many peoplewill enter the workforce in
2044.
Based on that number and therest of our demographic pyramid,
which is all known, I can tellyou how many jobs we will have
(27:42):
and how many we need.
And based on that, we could, 20years in advance, be setting
the visa quotas based on actualscience and actual numbers.
And how do we remain a healthynation from a demographic
pyramid type standpoint?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, I remember, just with everything going on in
, you know, 2020, 2021, a lot ofthe economists and
statisticians were talking justabout this, right, and
everyone's fears of you know whois going to take over
superpowers, all of that, youknow can America continue to be
as strong as it is?
And when?
Like you said, when you look atthe math, when you read those
different books or the differentstudies, we do have the power
(28:14):
to stay in that place if wechoose Tapping into.
You know, job creation allstems from innovation, right,
and so that innovative side ofyou, what kind of gives you that
spark or that inspiration tosay, yes, obviously there's a
direct need for the Airbnbs, andso you know, that's kind of a
(28:34):
no-brainer almost, of like, hey,let's do it this way, but to
create those new businesses andnew ideas, and what gives you
the spark and what also givesyou guys the energy to say like,
hey, let's do one more thing.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I think some of it is and I don't.
I don't know if this is theright answer, but some of it is
just innate in who I am.
We, every year, my wife and I,do these core values exercises
and we do our annual goalsetting.
And my core values are legacy,innovation and adventure.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
And the first time we ever did it.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
I remember my wife was like oh my gosh, you make so
much more sense now that I knowthis.
She was like all your crazyideas that you're coming up with
and she's like and the factthat you want to like go out and
sign up for an Ironman or gohike a mountain or something
she's like, that makes no senseto me.
But now that I know thatadventure is one of your core
values.
That's part of who you are, andso innovation is one of my core
values.
It's also a company core value.
For me personally, that's justsomething.
It's an area that I thrive in.
(29:24):
I love creating something new.
Finding elegant solutions tocomplex problems is how I like
to word it, because that just Idon't know, it brings me joy and
it kind of lights me up when Iwork on problems like that.
And so when we have thesereally, really big problems like
immigration, and what we'redoing is just, I mean, it's the
tiniest little fraction ofpeople that we're helping, but
(29:46):
we have this vision to help many, many more.
And the way we'll probably dothat, how do we help a million
people?
We're going to have to changesome laws, we're going to have
to make some really big movement, but we have time to do it and
we're going to keep working onit, and so, yeah, I guess
innovation is just somethingthat I thrive on and I love.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
Does that kind of channel into having different
geographical locations as well.
You talked about Los Angelesand, I believe, houston.
You said Yep.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
So we've known for a while that if we want to make
major change, we need to get outof Phoenix.
Phoenix is great.
It's a great place to start.
We absolutely love Phoenix, butwe know if we want to go we
have to be able to go state tostate.
And what's nice aboutimmigration law is that it's
federal, so we can practice inany state, because the law we're
practicing is controlled by thefederal government, not the
state governments.
So we are able to pretty easilycross state borders without
(30:38):
having to go through a whole newset of state laws, like
somebody might if they practicepersonal injury.
You might have a different setof laws, or you will in
California versus Arizona.
We're under the same blanket ofimmigration law, and so we look
at the need and we commissioneda pretty big study to be done
on this and we looked acrossAmerica at the areas with the
highest need and based on that,we built out our 10-year plan
(31:00):
with all the locations that havethe highest need.
There are immigration lawyersthere's plenty of them in Los
Angeles and it's not our intentto go there and take business
from anybody.
There's just so many people whoneed help in Los Angeles that
there's more than enough to goaround.
The same is true of Texas andNevada and New York and Illinois
and all these other places thatwe've identified in our 10-year
(31:22):
plan as a true need for people.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
It's got to make an impact on the homeless situation
too, because if you can getthese people to where they can
work and collect a paycheck andall of that, that has to make an
impact there.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
I would hope so.
I think homelessness issomething that Phoenix,
especially being a southwestcity, we really struggle with,
and it is definitely reachingthe level of crisis.
Not every state, not every citysees it, I think, the way
Phoenix does, but it is becominga major problem that needs to
be addressed.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah, and that's with the work of the foundation If
we can get people out andworking right away and having
that sense of belonging and thatsense of, you know, pride in
what they're doing, and thenthey stay out and they build
that life and, you know,everything kind of cascades from
there, which is the work thatall of us want to do right
Helping people.
You know, it's been such agreat time talking with you
(32:18):
today.
I don't want to leave thisconversation without touching a
little bit on your foundation aswell.
Obviously, we've talked alittle bit about the population
that you guys are serving andthe cause that you're trying to
make an impact on and that's notnecessarily a group that
self-pay is the easiest wayforward, and so I'm sure that
there's a lot of philanthropicaspects to that.
So you guys created afoundation.
(32:39):
If you want to give us a littlebit of information on that,
maybe how people could getinvolved and provide some help-
it's called New FrontierFoundation and kind of like our
other pieces of our ecosystem.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
We saw a need and we branched out into that because
we saw that we were somebodywell-equipped to fill that need.
We take some pro bono cases butas a business, when you're
trying to run a business, youcan only do so many pro bono
cases before you can't keep thelights on and pay everybody's
salary.
And so what we found was thatthe wait list for pro bono was
just lining up, getting longerand longer and longer and with
(33:12):
no end in sight.
And that is people who come in,they go through our screening
process and I should mentionthat our success rate in
immigration law is 100%,literally 100%.
We don't put that on ouradvertisements and stuff because
there's some ethics rules aboutthat, but we screen so hard up
front for people to make surethat they truly do qualify that
by the time we filed their case.
(33:34):
It's almost a no-brainer.
Now they have to wait becausethere's such a backlog in USCIS
that sometimes cases wait many,many years and sometimes even
decades depending on the type ofcase you're filing.
But we have at this time 100success rate because we screen.
Now in that screening processwe find people who are 100
qualified.
We know that they would begiven a green card based on the
(33:54):
circumstances, but they can'tafford to pay, and that was the
impetus for founding or startingthe foundation, and so right
now we offer counseling services, we offer classes.
We're looking to expand ouroffering and up until now it's
just been a bandwidth thing formy wife and I.
But again, it's finding theright people who are passionate
and who can run with thisproject.
(34:15):
There's a nationwide programcalled TVAP.
It's for TVSA I forget the AP,but it's for victims of human
trafficking, and so there arefunds available for these people
to assist them.
There's only one organizationin all of Phoenix for that
entire population, and some ofthe other cities have many, many
(34:35):
organizations.
So there is a true need here inPhoenix, and we are trying to
fill that and slowly build it.
As you probably know, there isa ton of red tape around running
a nonprofit.
So we've been going slow.
Where you know, with thebusiness sometimes you can kind
of shoot from the hip.
You know you're growing abusiness and you just make
mistakes and you learn to moveon.
(34:56):
But with a nonprofit I feellike you got to be really
careful how you, how you do it.
So it's been slower off thestart line than we're used to
and what we would like, but weare.
We are serving a largepopulation, we're helping a lot
of people and counselingservices are one of the main
things that people just don'thave access to.
If you've been trafficked hereto Phoenix, there's very low
(35:17):
probability that you haveresources to go out and get
counseling services.
So that was our first offeringand we're continuing to grow it
from there.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
So being a pilot for so long and I'm sure you've
flown all over the world isthere a special place that was
one of your favorites I havebeen all over the world.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
My wife and I have visited 54 countries.
Actually, I think I'm ahead bylike one.
We have a little friendlycompetition going.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
I'm ahead of you as well.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
You're way ahead, you've visited more countries
than I have states, but yes, I'mat 43.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Oh, very nice.
Yeah, there's a few she'llnever get.
I think that I have from mytime in the military, my time in
the military but, she's been toa few, I haven't.
We lived in Japan for a fewyears and we loved it.
We always said if we had thechance we would go back and live
there again.
It was a beautiful country, youknow like really safe, really
kind people.
We really enjoyed living there.
We lived in Korea, we lived inEngland and when you live
(36:08):
somewhere, you just get acompletely different experience
than when you visit for a shortamount of time Flying-wise.
Visit for a short amount oftime, flying wise.
There are some beautiful placesin the world that I have flown
but I got to tell you, arizonais one of the most beautiful
places.
You can take off in the SonoranDesert and in a couple of
minutes at least, in a fighterjet, you can be at the Grand
Canyon and you know.
(36:29):
There's just a beautiful stateall over.
And I feel like I, flying herein Arizona for over five years,
flew every low level availableand I feel like I, flying here
in Arizona for over five years,flew every low level available,
yeah, and I feel like I know thestate pretty well and it is
beautiful and has some of thebest, uh, flying that.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
I've seen anywhere.
That's amazing.
Great well, we really reallyappreciate you being with us
today.
And just um have to comment onthe focus, right, I think we're
always looking for what is thatsecret thing that we need?
Or you know, how do we make thebusiness go forward?
And you can have many differentbusinesses and different
outlets for things, but the corefocus and the why behind
(37:05):
everything you're doing reallystaying centered, I think is um
such an important piece, and youreally demonstrated that today
and all of your answers, andjust wanted to commend you guys
on that.
Um, thank you for all the workthat you're doing, thank you for
being here and if people wantto get a hold of you, where
should they reach out?
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yeah, we have new frontiercom is our website and
you can find information aboutus there.
We have two locations here inPhoenix.
People want to get involved.
We we host events on weekends.
We're at events all over theValley and you can also check me
out.
I do social media.
I mostly talk about flying, alittle bit about finance,
(37:40):
financial freedom, those sortsof things.
It's at real Sean Walsh on anyplatform Tik TOK, Instagram,
YouTube, and you know, look meup there.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
All right, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Thank you guys, I love your podcast.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Keep it up.
I've gotten a lot of value fromthe episodes that I've listed
so far.
Thank you.
Thank you Appreciate it.
Thanks for tuning in to theConfidence Curve.
We hope today's episode leftyou inspired and ready to
embrace your journey confidently.
Remember whether you're leadinga team, growing your business
or pursuing personal growth,each step forward builds your
curve.
If you enjoyed today'sconversation, don't forget to
subscribe, share and leave us areview.
(38:24):
For more insights and resources, visit us at apexgtscom.
Until next time, keep climbingthe curve.
Welcome to the Confidence Curve with Ashley and
Rick Bowers, where personal andprofessional journeys define
the art of scaling withconfidence.
Whether you're a businessleader navigating change or
someone seeking personal growth,this podcast offers insights
and actionable advice to helpyou thrive.
Now let's dive into today'sconversation with our incredible
(00:26):
guest.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to the Confidence Curve.
Myself, ashley Bowers, and mybusiness partner husband Rick
Bowers, are here to host.
We have our guest Sean with NewFrontier Immigration.
We are so excited to have youhere with us today and getting
to learn a little bit more aboutyou over the last week or so.
I'm just really intrigued withall of the work you're doing and
the good cause that you'refighting as a part of that.
(00:51):
So if you want, just kick usoff.
Tell us a little bit about youand the business and how you got
started.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Thank you for having me on.
I'm super excited to be heretoo.
Actually, our company justreached out from your last
podcast, where it was theTeleverde Foundation, and we're
going to start partnering withthem, so it's really cool.
So I've enjoyed listening toyour podcast, so keep it up.
My background I'm the CFO ofNew Frontier Immigration Law.
We have two locations here inthe Valley, in Phoenix, and
(01:19):
we're expanding to Californialater this year, texas next year
and we are one of the fastestgrowing law firms in America the
fastest growing law firm inArizona and one of the top 1000
fastest growing companies inAmerica and our specialty is
immigration law.
We do family based immigration.
We do a little bit ofeverything, but primarily family
(01:40):
based, and we have about 120employees family-based.
And we have about 120 employees.
Most of them are actuallyremote.
I guess we're maybe 50-50 nowbut as our business grew so much
during COVID, we hired a lot ofremote employees.
Now we're about half and halfremote or local.
Prior to this, I was a fighterpilot in the Air Force for 20
years and my wife founded thecompany when we moved to Phoenix
(02:04):
, which was about five and ahalf years ago or so.
At that time we'd been livingoverseas for five years.
We moved back to America and mywife just said I don't want to
have a boss, I don't want towork for anybody, I'm going to
open a business.
I was like, okay, that soundscool.
What do we do, you know?
And she wisely asked fordirections.
So we hired a business coachand started out and I've been
(02:27):
kind of with her since day one,helping on the financial side of
things, where she is the brainsand the genius and the legal,
the marketing and all that goodstuff behind it.
As the company grew, I retiredfrom the Air Force and I'm now
full time with New Frontier.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Awesome.
Well, first of all, thank youso much for your service in the
military, but then alsoeverything you're doing now, and
I want to dig into, kind of,the cause behind what you're
doing and the people that you'resupporting.
But before we do that, youmentioned business coach and
when we talked previously, youtalked about that being one of
the very first decisions thatyou guys made in your business,
and obviously there's a lot ofinvestment and risk and
(03:06):
vulnerability that comes alongwith it.
So how did you guys decide totake that plunge as your first
big decision and, looking back,you know how much do you believe
in that decision as a firststep for people that are
starting their businesses?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Well, hindsight's easier to look back and go oh,
look at that great decision wemade, but I can tell you it
wasn't easy sitting around.
We were at this little Formicatable sitting in the temporary
lodging of Luke Air Force Baseand at that time we just moved
back from overseas.
We had no house, no cars, nonothing, and we didn't know
anybody in Phoenix.
(03:40):
We had no business connections,we had no family, we had no
clients or anything and the veryfirst thing we did was spend
money on a business coach and atthat time was the probably
single largest investment we'dever made, except once before
we'd bought a house and sold it,but that was like the biggest
investment we'd ever made and mywife was all for it.
(04:01):
She was like we're going to dothis, this is going to be great,
and I was a bit bit hesitantand I think what finally brought
me around was the idea that umand I told you this before even
Michael Jordan in his prime andI like basketball at his peak he
had a coach, he had more thanone coach, and to think that the
goat, the greatest of all time,needed a coach and had a coach,
to think that I didn't need acoach in business, actually
(04:23):
seems silly in hindsight becauseit's not something I had done.
I had been in charge oforganizations, I was a commander
of a fighter squadron withhundreds of people and millions
of dollars in assets, but I hadnever founded a business from
the ground up, so to think thatI could step into it and do it
successfully from day one wasjust kind of crazy.
So in hindsight the investmentlooks minuscule, like wow, we
(04:47):
have now, you know, had a returnon investment of probably 1000x
on that first business coach.
But it was a game changer forus and it set us up for success
from day one.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Coaching is one thing that I never thought I would do
and as part of our apexadvisory business, I do a lot of
coaching.
It's probably the majority ofwhat I've been doing lately and
it's it's really amazing becausewhen you get in with a person
that you're coaching and workingwith that wants to get better,
it's it's really just asking thequestions and then it's all the
(05:21):
words that come out of theperson that you're coaching it.
They have all the words, they.
And then it's all the wordsthat come out of the person that
you're coaching.
They have all the words.
They just haven't thought ofthose things in a certain order
and so how you can kind of putthat in place and really it's
exciting to watch the lightbulbs go off above their heads
and all of that kind of thing.
So, as you've kind of built thebusiness, you said you're up to
about 120 employees and you hadover 300 people when you were
(05:46):
in the Air Force with thesquadron.
What are some similarities ordifferences that you see in
managing the two differentgroups of people?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
It's interesting because people are people and it
is something that it takes time.
As you're in the startup phase,you go through a lot of people
to find the right people, andthen you reach kind of a
critical mass where you canactually afford to hire
leadership and people to helpyou manage and run other people.
And that's when things reallystart to take off.
(06:14):
And we're in a phase right nowand that's what we say 2025 is a
year of people for us, becausethat's all that it is.
We could sit down all day andcome up with great new ideas of
ways to grow the business andthings that we can do, but if we
don't have the right peoplethere to help us launch these
initiatives, then it doesn'tmatter.
And so, between being in themilitary and now being in
civilian life, people managementis a lot of the same stuff
(06:38):
across the board, but one bigdifference was coming out of the
military.
You come from an organizationthat's been around for 100 years
or more.
So when I took over a squadronwith 287 people in it, I was
given the playbook, and it's theplaybook that has worked for
decades and decades before Iever took that role, so I could
(06:59):
come in and tweak it a littleand add my own flair to it and
maybe make it 1% know 1% better.
That is completely differentthan starting with a blank sheet
of paper and saying how do Iget all these people on board
with what we're about to do?
How do I make sure they knoweverything, from the tiniest
detail, like what to where towork, to the most important
thing like how to correctly filea case to USCIS.
(07:21):
And so that, I would say, isthe big difference is in a
startup or even in a civilianbusiness, when you don't have
all of this infrastructure inplace.
There's a lot more to it andgetting everybody rowing in the
same direction.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, and obviously you guys have done
a tremendous job in scaling theorganization.
Congratulations on landingtwice on the Inc 5000 of fastest
growing companies.
That's amazing, you know.
It feels like every year, Iknow, with leading companies.
You're working through things,you think you've solved it and
then and I think you mentionedthis too then all of a sudden
you're I feel like you're rightback in that circle, solving the
same problem and on the surfaceit's easy to look at it that
(07:58):
way, right, that it's the sameproblem, but you have more
people, different people, morecustomers, you know more
policies, so the solve is verydifferent.
You're really not fixing thesame thing over and over again.
So how have you guys reallyapproached that challenge and
that feeling like you're on thathamster wheel that you kind of
can't get off as it relates togrowing the business?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Well, we've fought it a lot in the beginning,
thinking why is everythingbreaking, until we finally
realized we view our business askind of a circle or a wheel,
and each section of that wheelis a different aspect of our
business.
And as we work our way aroundit, everything starts for us
with marketing.
We put money into marketing orevents or whatever we're going
to do, and that brings us leadsand brings us, eventually,
(08:38):
clients, which is our salesdepartment.
Those clients are onboarded andnow we have to do the work and
that's our operations.
And we work our way around thiscircle and when we get back
around to the end, we haverevenue in the door.
We take a percentage of thatand we put it back into
marketing.
We start our way around thewheel again, but what we realize
is that it's not a circle, it'smore of a spiral, because we
(08:58):
started so small where, you know, my wife was the first employee
and only employee for a littlewhile, and she was the director
of marketing, director of sales,director of people, you know
all those things.
And then, as we went around thewheel, it wasn't that everything
was broken, it's just that we'dgrown out and our wheel got
bigger and so it ended up beingmore of a spiral, because each
time around, instead of havingtwo new employees to manage, now
(09:21):
we had 20 new employees, andthe policies that worked for two
people just don't carry over to20 people or 100 or more than
that.
So while in the beginning itfelt like everything was broken,
we came to realize that it'snot that it's broken, it's that
we're growing and we have tocontinually revisit those.
And there have been times wherewe actually skipped writing an
SOP for something, because wesaid, hey, we're growing so fast
(09:44):
that in three months, if wewrite this SOP, it's going to be
completely overcome by events,obe, and so we're just going to
skip it right now.
Here's our general guidelines.
See you again in six months.
Keep working on it.
And so that's kind of how we'vehandled the rapid growth.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah Well, and as you start to implement policies and
procedures and things like thattoo, you know you hear the
dreaded words of we're becomingcorporate right from employees
and it's like you can havestructure and give guidance
which can actually really beempowering and can, you know,
give a lot of autonomy toemployees and things.
But we definitely always talkto clients and have heard
(10:20):
personally of well, why do wehave to do this?
We didn't used to have to havea PTO policy or we didn't used
to have to have that and butwhen you start to get in that 50
, 100, 200, 300, it really makesa big difference in how the
operation can run.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
That's so true.
And when you're trying to addvalue to your clients, you start
out and it's just you and yourideas and you're creating this
company and you're constantlyfinding ways to add value.
And when you bring people on,you can't just carbon copy your
memory into their mind and saydo all these things.
And so, in order to show peoplewhat you're trying to
accomplish, you have to startputting these policies in place
(10:54):
and as you grow and for us, wehave a plan, and now it's our
2035 plan, but it goes out 10years and we've told our whole
staff we're a startup.
For these 10 years, we're fiveyears in 10 more years we're
still in the startup phase.
So expect that the sops wewrite today will probably be
rewritten in another year or two, when we have multiple
(11:15):
locations in other states andthese you know phoenix-based
rules that we have don't workanymore right, yeah so, as
you've, as you've built the, thebusiness, um, from our
conversation the other day, youkind of were able to build
businesses because of thebusiness.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Can you talk a little bit about that and how the
things that you were alreadydoing now you could package that
and create a whole otherrevenue stream?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yes, we call it our ecosystem, okay, and we kind of
think of it like how they builtout the iPhone.
You know, when they built theiPhone they weren't maybe they
were, but they weren'tnecessarily thinking that they
were also going to control themarket on music in the world and
that they were going to controlthe market on podcasts and on
how you delivered your email.
They just built a great productthat was a phone and everything
else added on.
(11:58):
Apple now has this ecosystemwhere you can't get your
information from anywhere exceptthem, and so that's kind of the
concept.
And we built the law firm asour first business and our
largest business.
But as we had other needs Imentioned we have about 60
remote employees.
We bring many of them toPhoenix for training or for a
set amount of time to come hereand do.
(12:19):
They might appear in court orthey might just come for events.
We were spending a ton of moneyon hotels and per diem and all
those things.
So we said, why don't we justcreate a space where our
employees can stay, and when wedon't need it for the business,
we'll rent it out?
And so from that grew a sidebusiness.
We have 11 Airbnbs, and then wealso bought some multifamily.
(12:41):
After that, we saw a lot ofvalue in buying commercial
property that we could thenoccupy as our company and rent
out to other people who needspace, and so each one of these
things became its own separatebusiness, its own separate
enterprise, and we even hiredpeople to help us run that.
So we don't do anything withour Airbnbs.
We have a couple employees onthat side of the house who
(13:03):
handle that stuff.
We have a property managementcompany that handles our
commercial property.
We now have a university andthat one stemmed out of we have
120 employees.
We you know, when you're in astartup phase, you're going
through like five employees amonth because we would hire 10
or 20 at a time, train them up,and only 10 of them would still
be around in a month because,for whatever reason, so we're
(13:24):
training so many people that wejust wanted to make it
repeatable and simple, and so weformalized how we were training
and we built it into an onlineplatform.
We use Kajabi.
A lot of people use that foronline education.
But then we realized that therewas a need elsewhere for that
same education, and so we soldlicenses to other immigration
law firms who need to traintheir employees.
(13:46):
We have a very robust platformto become a legal assistant or
paralegal specific toimmigration law, and we share
that with other immigration lawfirms and one of the main things
and one of our core principlesis the belief that there's an
abundance and so there is nobodyanywhere in America or in
Phoenix or anywhere that is ourcompetitor.
We're not competing withanybody.
(14:08):
There are more than enoughclients for everybody.
There's more than enough to goaround, and that's kind of our
view of everything.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Okay, you know we started the conversation
mentioned education.
Now we started the conversationwith the coaching that you guys
elected to receive in thebeginning of your business.
How has your approach toeducation for you and your wife,
and really the on the businesseducation, evolved since you
started?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
It's evolved a lot.
We'd always been the kind ofpeople who valued education we
both have degrees fromuniversity and master's degrees
but there's a lot of value topersonal growth and that's
education too, and a lot ofvalue to personal growth and
that's education too.
And what we found was, as ourcompany grew, if we didn't grow
with it, we wouldn't be ready.
(14:52):
So when we, you know, first hitsix-figure company, we had
never run a six-figure companybefore, so we had to learn some
new things and we had to grow inorder to be good leaders of
that and good stewards of ofthat company.
When we hit seven figures forthe first time, we had to learn
how to be business owners of aseven-figure business and how to
take care of our people and howto correctly run that business.
(15:13):
And again when we hit eightfigures.
As you hit all these differentmilestones in your business, you
have to grow with it or thebusiness is going to leave you
behind.
And unfortunately that doeshappen with employees sometimes,
where they join at one stageyou're still in growth mode and
they don't stay around becausethey don't want to grow with it.
But I think that personaldevelopment and personal growth
(15:33):
precedes professional growth.
And if you want to grow in anyindustry and anything you're
doing professionally, you havegot to start by looking inward
and working on yourself, and soboth my wife and I invest a lot
in our personal development.
We've had now we've worked withthree different business
coaches, each for about two tothree years.
We both independently work,have coaching, and we also do a
(15:56):
lot of offsite events.
Once or twice a year we'll goto conferences, retreats, those
sorts of things just working onourselves, because you know we
wanna keep leading this companyfor many years to come and we
have to grow with it.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
It's so funny you say about you know the six figure,
the seven figure.
I remember I had an executivecoach and I was president of the
company that I was working atand time was like a $7 million
company and our growth goal wasto get to 10.
In that moment, you know, inthe near future, what am I going
to do?
How am I going to know what todo?
(16:30):
And every time we would havethat conversation he would just
look at me and say did you knowhow to do it when it was seven,
before you did it?
Did you know how to do it?
And you do like.
You learn along the way, andeven just fast forward to my
days at HomeSmart when the ownerwas like hey, you know, I want
you to take this thing public.
You are crazy.
Like, let's hire you a team, Idon't know how to do that.
(16:51):
And he's like hire yourself ateam that knows how to do that
and surround yourself.
And I think that's a big pieceof the growth right.
You never want to be thesmartest person in the room when
you're leading a company.
You want everyone else aroundyou to be able to lift the
organization up and lift yourpeople up and continue that
cause and to be able to learnfrom each other.
So it is interesting because welook forward and we're like,
how are we going to do that?
And we look back and we're likehow did we not know how to do
(17:12):
that?
Because you just, you learn inthat journey too, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I think that's really insightful and we try to not
focus on the how, which is wherenaturally our instinct is to go
to how are we going to do it.
And we try to remove ourselvesfrom that and say, you know, why
are we going to do it?
Speaker 4 (17:28):
And and really focus on that and the how will focus
on that and the how will willpresent itself as you go.
So, as we've talked a lot aboutpeople and you brought up the,
the hiring and some of the timesin the early days where you
would hire 10 and you would lose5 and then you'd hire 20, so
how is the hiring process?
As you've gone over 100 andover the last year or so, have
(17:49):
you made shifts in the hiringprocess or what are some of the
things that have really made adifference for you in hiring the
right people for theorganization?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
I think a big shift is that we got better and, just
like working with the coach, youknow you start out and you
can't make a free throw andeventually you practice enough
times that you get better at it.
So I think that was a key thingis we got better at
interviewing and hiring.
That was a key thing is we gotbetter at interviewing and
hiring.
And then we also got moreclarity because we spent more
time on the big picture, on whatwe're trying to accomplish,
(18:19):
looking towards the future andreally spending time writing out
our needs and when we gotreally clear on what we needed
and we still do this.
In fact, we were doing this lastnight for a new position that
we're hiring for right now,trying to become really clear on
exactly what we're hiring for,because until you're clear on
that, you're never going to findthe right person.
You'll find plenty of goodpeople there's tons of great
(18:39):
applicants out there in everyjob we've ever put out but if
you're not clear on what you'rehiring for, then you're not
going to find the right match.
In the beginning it was alittle bit of the you know, try
to get as many people as we canand find a couple good amongst
the group of people and we'vereally refined that down to
trying to find the right people.
(19:00):
And then the last part is Imentioned earlier that critical
mass when we reach the pointwhere we could actually hire a
director of people and cultureand we could actually hire a
recruiter, and we start.
You know, those people come inand make us exponentially better
than ourselves alone could doit focusing a little bit back in
(19:20):
on the people that you guysserve.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Why don't you tell our audience a little bit about
that and the critical work thatyou're doing for a very special
group of individuals?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
you bet.
So at new frontier immigrationlaw we do family-based
immigration and our primaryclients are actually a T visa,
which is for human trafficking.
We also our two other main casetypes are VAWA, which is
Violence Against Women Act, andU visa, which is essentially if
someone commits a crime againstyou while you're in the United
States, you assist lawenforcement.
There is a path to a green cardthat way.
(19:50):
There's a common misconceptionabout immigration that people
can just cross the border.
You know, come into our officeand we'll, we'll be able to help
them stay, and that's not howit works.
You know, for all the politispoliticizing of immigration that
there is.
It's actually really, really anet positive for our country.
And you know we could.
(20:11):
We could go off on that topicall day, but the point is
there's a lot of people outthere who really need help.
I'm a first generation American.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
No problem.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, sorry, I love the passion.
And the people that we help arewhat it's all about, and our
mission and our vision, I shouldsay, for a new frontier is to
help one million people livefree in the United States.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Now that's, it's absolutely amazing.
You mentioned the TelevertiFoundation earlier and I always
take a chance to give them aplug.
I'm on the board of thefoundation and you know they are
assisting people with reentryafter being incarcerated.
And just the number of womenyou know who are incarcerated,
um, over 60% of them havechildren, and so breaking the
(20:58):
cycle and changing things and,uh, a lot of the people you're
helping, right, you want tobreak those cycles and you want
to and and point them onto abetter life, and housing is a
big issue.
Um, when you said multifamily,I'm like, oh yes, you and
Michelle are going to get along.
Great, it is.
There's so many misconceptionsabout different pieces of the
population and differentsituations in our society and if
(21:19):
we really dig in deep, there'sa lot of perception changes that
can happen.
I was one of those people andwent into the prison to tour it
before getting on the board andyou know, just every interaction
you have changes yourperception and you really want
to.
You have changes yourperception and you really want
to.
You know, do more and and helppeople who, who want to be
helped.
These are people who want to behere and um and have a better
(21:41):
life and have that opportunity.
So I think it's absolutelyamazing of what we're all human
at the core.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
You guys said that in your podcast, but we're all
human at the core, yeah, youknow, and everyone is just
trying to live their own versionof their best life.
No one should be judged for theworst act that they do.
And people who come here sooften our main client type being
TV says human traffickingPhoenix being so close to the
border, we have a lot of peoplewho've been labor trafficked.
They're brought here to workand then their employer holds it
(22:07):
over them, withholds paychecks,threatens to call ICE those
sorts of things in order to makethem work longer hours and
basically they're being takenadvantage of.
So we have an entire populationof human beings living here in
Phoenix among us that are justdisenfranchised because they
have no recourse and they'reliving in the shadows.
And they're already here andthey're contributing to our
(22:28):
society.
They say that if, and I'll givesome stats and I'll give some
numbers.
Most of this comes from PeterZayhan and his research
Excellent book called AccidentalSuperpower Talks about why
America is the global superpowerand why it will remain that way
, and he has an entire sectionon immigration and he talks a
lot about it.
I like his work because it'svery scientific.
(22:48):
I have a background inengineering and so I'm very much
like numbers and engineering.
But if we didn't have all theundocumented people who are
currently here serving ourcommunity, that inflation would
have been 8% to 10% over thelast couple of years because of
the lack of a workforce.
And when you talk about massdeportations or the number of
(23:09):
people who are here undocumented, I think what it comes down to
is that America is a nation ofrule followers, and I get that.
I was in the military.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Where else do you find?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
more rules than the military, and every person I
have talked to, no matter wherethey are on the political
spectrum or whatever theirpersonal beliefs are, to a
person they have said I'm finewith immigration as long as it's
done legally.
And so I think that there'skind of this block around the
idea of illegal immigration,somebody who came into this
country illegally versussomebody who came here legally.
(23:40):
But the misunderstanding thereis that there really isn't a way
to come here legally.
That's because our system isbroken and needs to be fixed.
My wife and I went to Washingtonback in December and we met
with numerous senators fromArizona and other places to talk
about immigration.
And to a person, both sides ofthe aisle, everyone agreed yes,
(24:00):
100%, we need immigration reform.
And we said this is amazing,this is so great.
Are you going to do anything?
And they said no, no, it's toopolitically charged.
We're not going to touch thattopic right now.
So it's interesting that onboth sides of the aisle,
everyone's in agreement that weneed to fix it because our rules
are a mess, but nobody'swilling to do anything about it,
and so that's what we're tryingto do yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Hopefully you'll have some some luck in that case,
because it's just.
It doesn't make any sense whenyou can agree on something but
don't do it for politicalreasons.
It just we don't want to go topolitical here.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
We find that in our businesses too right.
You'll have team memberssitting around a boardroom table
and everyone will be looking atwhat the problem is and whether
it's a people problem, whetherit's a long-term process problem
or my favorites were alwayslike well, the Ashley said thing
and it's like well, when did Isay that?
Five years ago?
Why don't we address that again?
And when everyone can agree andthen have that safe place to
(24:54):
move forward and ask questionsand kind of create some of that
change in organizations oranything that we're doing right,
it can be really powerful.
But we do tend to paralyzeourselves, I think paralyze
ourselves in agreement, which isa very interesting human
behavior.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Yeah, that's so true.
You know, when you look at jobsin America, right we're at,
joblessness is pretty low rightnow.
We actually we need more peopleto work.
But there's an interestingthing is that there is no limit
to the number of jobs.
So America has 150 million jobsor something.
I don't remember the lastnumber.
But China has like 700 millionjobs.
(25:31):
It's not because they have moreindustry, they have more people
, and with more people itcreates more jobs.
And if an engineer moves to themiddle of nowhere in Wyoming and
starts a business out of his orher garage and they start
making widgets and then theyhire someone to come work with
them, well, that person movesthere and now you have two
houses.
And then someone else movesthere to help them package and
ship and they have kids, and nowyou need a school and doctors.
(25:55):
You can literally build a cityout of nothing with an idea.
And those jobs didn't existbefore.
Our company didn't have 120jobs five years ago.
So there are more than enoughjobs for everybody.
And the more people that comehere, it stimulates our economy.
Back to Peter Zajan's work.
He talks about a healthyeconomy has what's called a
demographic pyramid, that is,fewer people at the top, which
(26:16):
is the older people, and thenyounger people, more of them at
the bottom.
Almost every country in theworld has an inverted pyramid
right now, and the worst isChina, as we have heard all
about.
That America is.
We're actually pretty healthy.
It's not ideal, but it's prettyhealthy.
But one interesting thing isthat we have this great big
lever that if we want to pullthis lever, we can change the
(26:37):
shape of our pyramid.
We can make it wider at thebottom or at the top.
We can literally do whatever wewant with this lever.
We just choose not to do itbecause we're all in agreement
but we disagree that someoneshould move it and China can't
do that.
They can't just open the gatesand bring in some more people to
help them fix their economy and, frankly, if you read Peter
Zahan's work, you'll see thatthey're headed for a rough
(26:59):
century.
Based on, their population isexpected to be cut in half by
the end of the century.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
I thought it was interesting when you talked
about.
It's a simple calculation thatfrom the time someone's born, 20
years later they enter theworkforce, and so 20 years from
now, we know how many we'regoing to need.
And it's just a calculation.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Yeah, and going back to math and numbers, because I
love it, that's exactly right.
We can tell you with 99.9%accuracy how many babies were
born in 2024.
So you can now look at it andgo well, with about 99% accuracy
, I can tell you how many peoplewill enter the workforce in
2044.
Based on that number and therest of our demographic pyramid,
which is all known, I can tellyou how many jobs we will have
(27:42):
and how many we need.
And based on that, we could, 20years in advance, be setting
the visa quotas based on actualscience and actual numbers.
And how do we remain a healthynation from a demographic
pyramid type standpoint?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, I remember, just with everything going on in
, you know, 2020, 2021, a lot ofthe economists and
statisticians were talking justabout this, right, and
everyone's fears of you know whois going to take over
superpowers, all of that, youknow can America continue to be
as strong as it is?
And when?
Like you said, when you look atthe math, when you read those
different books or the differentstudies, we do have the power
(28:14):
to stay in that place if wechoose Tapping into.
You know, job creation allstems from innovation, right,
and so that innovative side ofyou, what kind of gives you that
spark or that inspiration tosay, yes, obviously there's a
direct need for the Airbnbs, andso you know, that's kind of a
(28:34):
no-brainer almost, of like, hey,let's do it this way, but to
create those new businesses andnew ideas, and what gives you
the spark and what also givesyou guys the energy to say like,
hey, let's do one more thing.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I think some of it is and I don't.
I don't know if this is theright answer, but some of it is
just innate in who I am.
We, every year, my wife and I,do these core values exercises
and we do our annual goalsetting.
And my core values are legacy,innovation and adventure.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
And the first time we ever did it.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
I remember my wife was like oh my gosh, you make so
much more sense now that I knowthis.
She was like all your crazyideas that you're coming up with
and she's like and the factthat you want to like go out and
sign up for an Ironman or gohike a mountain or something
she's like, that makes no senseto me.
But now that I know thatadventure is one of your core
values.
That's part of who you are, andso innovation is one of my core
values.
It's also a company core value.
For me personally, that's justsomething.
It's an area that I thrive in.
(29:24):
I love creating something new.
Finding elegant solutions tocomplex problems is how I like
to word it, because that just Idon't know, it brings me joy and
it kind of lights me up when Iwork on problems like that.
And so when we have thesereally, really big problems like
immigration, and what we'redoing is just, I mean, it's the
tiniest little fraction ofpeople that we're helping, but
(29:46):
we have this vision to help many, many more.
And the way we'll probably dothat, how do we help a million
people?
We're going to have to changesome laws, we're going to have
to make some really big movement, but we have time to do it and
we're going to keep working onit, and so, yeah, I guess
innovation is just somethingthat I thrive on and I love.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
Does that kind of channel into having different
geographical locations as well.
You talked about Los Angelesand, I believe, houston.
You said Yep.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
So we've known for a while that if we want to make
major change, we need to get outof Phoenix.
Phoenix is great.
It's a great place to start.
We absolutely love Phoenix, butwe know if we want to go we
have to be able to go state tostate.
And what's nice aboutimmigration law is that it's
federal, so we can practice inany state, because the law we're
practicing is controlled by thefederal government, not the
state governments.
So we are able to pretty easilycross state borders without
(30:38):
having to go through a whole newset of state laws, like
somebody might if they practicepersonal injury.
You might have a different setof laws, or you will in
California versus Arizona.
We're under the same blanket ofimmigration law, and so we look
at the need and we commissioneda pretty big study to be done
on this and we looked acrossAmerica at the areas with the
highest need and based on that,we built out our 10-year plan
(31:00):
with all the locations that havethe highest need.
There are immigration lawyersthere's plenty of them in Los
Angeles and it's not our intentto go there and take business
from anybody.
There's just so many people whoneed help in Los Angeles that
there's more than enough to goaround.
The same is true of Texas andNevada and New York and Illinois
and all these other places thatwe've identified in our 10-year
(31:22):
plan as a true need for people.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
It's got to make an impact on the homeless situation
too, because if you can getthese people to where they can
work and collect a paycheck andall of that, that has to make an
impact there.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
I would hope so.
I think homelessness issomething that Phoenix,
especially being a southwestcity, we really struggle with,
and it is definitely reachingthe level of crisis.
Not every state, not every citysees it, I think, the way
Phoenix does, but it is becominga major problem that needs to
be addressed.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah, and that's with the work of the foundation If
we can get people out andworking right away and having
that sense of belonging and thatsense of, you know, pride in
what they're doing, and thenthey stay out and they build
that life and, you know,everything kind of cascades from
there, which is the work thatall of us want to do right
Helping people.
You know, it's been such agreat time talking with you
(32:18):
today.
I don't want to leave thisconversation without touching a
little bit on your foundation aswell.
Obviously, we've talked alittle bit about the population
that you guys are serving andthe cause that you're trying to
make an impact on and that's notnecessarily a group that
self-pay is the easiest wayforward, and so I'm sure that
there's a lot of philanthropicaspects to that.
So you guys created afoundation.
(32:39):
If you want to give us a littlebit of information on that,
maybe how people could getinvolved and provide some help-
it's called New FrontierFoundation and kind of like our
other pieces of our ecosystem.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
We saw a need and we branched out into that because
we saw that we were somebodywell-equipped to fill that need.
We take some pro bono cases butas a business, when you're
trying to run a business, youcan only do so many pro bono
cases before you can't keep thelights on and pay everybody's
salary.
And so what we found was thatthe wait list for pro bono was
just lining up, getting longerand longer and longer and with
(33:12):
no end in sight.
And that is people who come in,they go through our screening
process and I should mentionthat our success rate in
immigration law is 100%,literally 100%.
We don't put that on ouradvertisements and stuff because
there's some ethics rules aboutthat, but we screen so hard up
front for people to make surethat they truly do qualify that
by the time we filed their case.
(33:34):
It's almost a no-brainer.
Now they have to wait becausethere's such a backlog in USCIS
that sometimes cases wait many,many years and sometimes even
decades depending on the type ofcase you're filing.
But we have at this time 100success rate because we screen.
Now in that screening processwe find people who are 100
qualified.
We know that they would begiven a green card based on the
(33:54):
circumstances, but they can'tafford to pay, and that was the
impetus for founding or startingthe foundation, and so right
now we offer counseling services, we offer classes.
We're looking to expand ouroffering and up until now it's
just been a bandwidth thing formy wife and I.
But again, it's finding theright people who are passionate
and who can run with thisproject.
(34:15):
There's a nationwide programcalled TVAP.
It's for TVSA I forget the AP,but it's for victims of human
trafficking, and so there arefunds available for these people
to assist them.
There's only one organizationin all of Phoenix for that
entire population, and some ofthe other cities have many, many
(34:35):
organizations.
So there is a true need here inPhoenix, and we are trying to
fill that and slowly build it.
As you probably know, there isa ton of red tape around running
a nonprofit.
So we've been going slow.
Where you know, with thebusiness sometimes you can kind
of shoot from the hip.
You know you're growing abusiness and you just make
mistakes and you learn to moveon.
(34:56):
But with a nonprofit I feellike you got to be really
careful how you, how you do it.
So it's been slower off thestart line than we're used to
and what we would like, but weare.
We are serving a largepopulation, we're helping a lot
of people and counselingservices are one of the main
things that people just don'thave access to.
If you've been trafficked hereto Phoenix, there's very low
(35:17):
probability that you haveresources to go out and get
counseling services.
So that was our first offeringand we're continuing to grow it
from there.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
So being a pilot for so long and I'm sure you've
flown all over the world isthere a special place that was
one of your favorites I havebeen all over the world.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
My wife and I have visited 54 countries.
Actually, I think I'm ahead bylike one.
We have a little friendlycompetition going.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
I'm ahead of you as well.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
You're way ahead, you've visited more countries
than I have states, but yes, I'mat 43.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Oh, very nice.
Yeah, there's a few she'llnever get.
I think that I have from mytime in the military, my time in
the military but, she's been toa few, I haven't.
We lived in Japan for a fewyears and we loved it.
We always said if we had thechance we would go back and live
there again.
It was a beautiful country, youknow like really safe, really
kind people.
We really enjoyed living there.
We lived in Korea, we lived inEngland and when you live
(36:08):
somewhere, you just get acompletely different experience
than when you visit for a shortamount of time Flying-wise.
Visit for a short amount oftime, flying wise.
There are some beautiful placesin the world that I have flown
but I got to tell you, arizonais one of the most beautiful
places.
You can take off in the SonoranDesert and in a couple of
minutes at least, in a fighterjet, you can be at the Grand
Canyon and you know.
(36:29):
There's just a beautiful stateall over.
And I feel like I, flying herein Arizona for over five years,
flew every low level availableand I feel like I, flying here
in Arizona for over five years,flew every low level available,
yeah, and I feel like I know thestate pretty well and it is
beautiful and has some of thebest, uh, flying that.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
I've seen anywhere.
That's amazing.
Great well, we really reallyappreciate you being with us
today.
And just um have to comment onthe focus, right, I think we're
always looking for what is thatsecret thing that we need?
Or you know, how do we make thebusiness go forward?
And you can have many differentbusinesses and different
outlets for things, but the corefocus and the why behind
(37:05):
everything you're doing reallystaying centered, I think is um
such an important piece, and youreally demonstrated that today
and all of your answers, andjust wanted to commend you guys
on that.
Um, thank you for all the workthat you're doing, thank you for
being here and if people wantto get a hold of you, where
should they reach out?
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yeah, we have new frontiercom is our website and
you can find information aboutus there.
We have two locations here inPhoenix.
People want to get involved.
We we host events on weekends.
We're at events all over theValley and you can also check me
out.
I do social media.
I mostly talk about flying, alittle bit about finance,
(37:40):
financial freedom, those sortsof things.
It's at real Sean Walsh on anyplatform Tik TOK, Instagram,
YouTube, and you know, look meup there.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
All right, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Thank you guys, I love your podcast.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Keep it up.
I've gotten a lot of value fromthe episodes that I've listed
so far.
Thank you.
Thank you Appreciate it.
Thanks for tuning in to theConfidence Curve.
We hope today's episode leftyou inspired and ready to
embrace your journey confidently.
Remember whether you're leadinga team, growing your business
or pursuing personal growth,each step forward builds your
curve.
If you enjoyed today'sconversation, don't forget to
subscribe, share and leave us areview.
(38:24):
For more insights and resources, visit us at apexgtscom.
Until next time, keep climbingthe curve.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.