September 25, 2025 • 47 mins
In this episode of The Confidence Curve, Ashley and Rick Bowers open up about their journey from corporate careers to entrepreneurial success and how their complementary strengths have powered both their business and personal partnership for more than 20 years.
From Rick’s early days duplicating assessment diskettes at TTI Success Insights to Ashley’s childhood passion for organization, their story reveals how curiosity, strategy, and stepping into discomfort built the foundation for Apex GTS. They candidly discuss pivotal career moments, including Ashley’s vulnerable reflection on what she once saw as her biggest professional setback, and how that experience reshaped her outlook on growth and resilience.
Whether you’re leading a team, launching a venture, or simply looking for authentic stories about leadership and perseverance, this episode offers practical wisdom and inspiration to help you grow and succeed.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Confidence Curve with Ashley and
Rick Bowers, where personal andprofessional journeys define
the art of scaling withconfidence.
Whether you're a businessleader navigating change or
someone seeking personal growth,this podcast offers insights
and actionable advice to helpyou thrive.
Now let's dive into today'sconversation with our incredible
(00:26):
guest.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to the Confidence Curve.
My name is Ashley Bowers andI'm here with my co-host and
husband, Rick Bowers.
Today's episode is going to bea little different.
We decided to take a moment andturn the mics on ourselves,
talk a little bit about how wegot here, why we got here and
some of the lessons that we'velearned in leadership in life,
(00:50):
in working together and beingentrepreneurs over, you know,
the last 20 plus years thatwe've been on this journey in
one capacity or another.
So welcome to today's show andwe hope you enjoy so kind of.
You know, when we think abouthow we got started.
You were working at TTI,Success Insights, and which back
(01:13):
then was TTI PerformanceSystems.
I think if we're really datingourselves.
I started at TTI as areceptionist.
I think from interview one, youand I could kind of talk about
anything and everything and thatdefinitely created an amazing
professional relationship whicheventually bloomed into,
obviously, our personalrelationship and, I think,
(01:35):
probably keeps us very strongand grounded still to this day
and something that people lookfor in all of their
relationships, whether they'rebusiness or personal.
You know, thinking back tothose days and why don't you
kind of share a little bit withour audience about how you got
started at TTI and what you weredoing and kind of what brought
(01:58):
you out to Arizona from Iowa andgive a little bit of a back
story.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yeah, I mean, when I think about kind of everything
that you set up there and in theearly days at TTI and and kind
of what led to that, it reallygoes back to being from Iowa and
the Iowa roots and how you kindof just do what's necessary
kind of a thing, and and from avery early age, like I think I
(02:23):
started mowing grass and andthat kind of stuff in second or
third grade and um, that led to,like delivering newspapers and,
um, working on the farm, to allthe different jobs that I had
back there.
That just kind of was like ifsomething needed to be done, you
did it, and it was thatbuilding of respect for for
(02:46):
whoever was the leader at thetime, and so that really kind of
built, I think, something thatisn't there anymore.
Um, and I think the other thingthat I was thinking about with
this question is there wasn't aninternet back then.
You couldn't go and watch ayoutube video, so like if you
needed to figure something out,you had to figure something out
(03:07):
on your own or go find somebodythat knew how to do it or
experiment, and so I think thatkind of built a lot of the
background to kind of what I'mabout, what Apex is about.
Kind of what you and I, becauseyou started a little bit
different than I did, but asimilar path, I guess.
Coming down from Iowa to go toArizona State and ran into the
(03:33):
owner of TTI.
He knew my dad.
They needed somebody part-time,so I started part-time going to
ASU back in 1988.
Fast forward 33 years later.
It was time for a newtransition and six months after
that Apex was born.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Well, it's interesting because, like when
you first started right, it wasdoing whatever needed to be done
and you kind of alluded to thatBack then.
You know, assessments weredelivered on diskettes, like
floppy disks and disks and andduplicating those and printing
flyers and shipping things out,and then just slowly learn the
business, learn the aspects youknow through time and then
obviously went up that ladder,you know, with Inside TTI.
(04:15):
I think back to my upbringingand, although not Midwest, being
, you know, born and raised herein Arizona.
My grandfather my, you know mydad, like all my uncles, you
know, born and raised here inArizona, my grandfather my, you
know my dad, like all my uncles,you know all in commercial
construction, very hard work,and you know very significant
work.
Along with that, mygrandparents owned beauty
(04:38):
supplies.
So this was before you had Ultaand Sephora and all these big
box you know supply chains forbeauty products, long before the
internet, obviously, and so wehad about 13 beauty supplies
around the valley.
And you know, growing up Iwould go to the work with my mom
(04:59):
when before I was in school andnow I hear the stories my aunt
would be doing the books and Iwas three years old, sitting on
the floor and separating out thevisa, mastercard and Amex
receipts and that was like theold carbon copy thing and my
aunt would say Ashley, you know,hand me the visas and I would
(05:20):
hand her the pile.
That started with fours and Iwas three or four years old, you
know, and sitting on the lapsof reps that were selling us
product and just being in theconversation and I know we've
carried that on with our kids,taking them to business trips
and just inviting them to theenvironment.
I think and I think that that'sso much of what has shaped who
(05:43):
you are and who I am is we'vealways been in and around and
trying to maximize what we'rebringing to the environment,
that we're in um, and what itcan teach us and what we can
take on to the next thing thatwe do, which definitely was a
secret of success to us while wewere at TTI.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah, and think I'm not sure where it comes from,
but it turned into one of ourcore values the childlike
curiosity which is, I guess, myfavorite of our core values as
well, and it's just thatcuriosity of how things work.
I would get in trouble as alittle kid for taking things
(06:22):
apart but I wanted to see whatwas inside them and that kind of
stuff.
And and I it's still today.
I think that's something thatmakes apex special is our
abilities to be able to see thethings that other people don't
see, to pick up on the details,to pick up on the little things
(06:43):
and then kind of dig into it,ask the questions, that kind of
get it at a different level.
And then my favorite thing withwith whether it's coaching or
working with a group of people,it's listening to what their
answer is, because there's somuch value in the words that
people say and they don't evenrealize it when they say it.
So that curiosity, I think,just plays out over and over,
(07:06):
and I'm sure you're tired of it.
It's like I'll say something.
It's like did you notice thaton the commercials or did you
notice this in the show?
It doesn't connect and it'slike it just pick up on things
that I don't think a lot ofpeople pick up on.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I think it's interesting, though, because you
come from the place of, likehow do I take it apart and see
how all of it works and what'sticking?
And then you know, instead ofplaying with paper dolls, I
built org charts and builtcompanies in my room as a little
kid and like to see, like, howcan you structure it back
together in the right way tomaximize that efficiency?
You know, um, which isinteresting Our poor children.
(07:41):
They listen to us talk and thisis what we talk about, but we
love it.
I think each of us can pointback to a pivot that was.
You know, that happened in ourcareer.
That maybe really changed thetrajectory of where we went.
And when I look at your careerwithin TTI, one of the things
that comes to mind was when youwere kind of sectioned off to go
(08:05):
and lead and build theinternational division.
You know, being anentrepreneurial founder-led
company, sometimes, you know,when you're an employee in that,
you feel like you can't break aceiling or move forward or
you're never really going to getto that next step, and with
that can be lost learningopportunity, because that person
is there, and I feel like thatwas really pivotal for you to go
(08:28):
and build something else tolater come back and be the
president of the whole thing.
Can you talk a little bit about, maybe, the fear of like wait,
you know, am I being put overhere what's happening, why this
change and then how it reallyhelped your career in the long
run?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, it was an interesting time because it was
a little bit of uncertainty withwhat's this going to look like
dealing with people in othercountries.
Sometimes there's languagebarriers, there's all of these
things.
But as it kind of started toplay out and working with the
(09:04):
international group and kind ofunderstanding who they are and
that things work just about thesame internationally as they do
in the US, and so that was kindof that comfort piece.
And and then there's theconfidence, because confidence
comes from working through anuncomfortable situation and so I
(09:24):
feel like I've gone through alot of those kind of
uncomfortable situations andwhether that was intentional by
by Bill, the owner of TTI, or ifit was just coincidence, it
worked out.
But I think learning frompeople that have done certain
things has been a key.
(09:44):
People that have done certainthings has been a key.
And, uh, dave brought in anotherperson on the team that was a
kind of self-proclaimed problemsolver rolando.
And the thing I think reallymade a difference for me was the
deming stuff, the fourthgeneration management, and
seeing what that can do andputting a name to the processes
(10:07):
and the things that were just inin our minds maybe, um, kind of
helped to be a little bit morestructured and and how you do it
and realizing the thing, simplethings like uh right things
done right the first time, andthat kind of stuff made a
difference.
And being able to then starttraveling the world and seeing
(10:29):
the different cultures andseeing how businesses worked
from all over the world was, Ithink, a big part of the
leadership development for meand and then learning from
mistakes and we all mademistakes along the way and
didn't really have a clear pathof where we were going and kind
(10:50):
of built it as we were going.
It's, I think, flying orbuilding the airplane as we fly.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
It is something that's pretty natural, I guess,
for for me, you know it's funny,you mentioned the thing that
builds the confidence.
When I was first thinking aboutthe career pivot topic,
immediately I went tocollectively the switch for me
(11:16):
to go from TTI to HomeSmart.
But as you mentioned theconfidence piece, I think that
was the first step, you know,after leaving TTI and you know,
wanting to start consulting backthen and doing things different
, and had the opportunity tomeet the founder of HomeSmart
and join that organization asthe chief operating officer.
It was really about can I takeeverything that I've learned
(11:39):
through in essence, like in theclassroom at TTI, about how
companies should operate youknow there was some interaction
with clients, but most of ourwork was with consultants and
such and can I apply this andimplement change and affect
change and do the right things?
And so that was kind of aconfidence building piece.
But a few years in I had thatfeeling of okay, box is checked,
(12:01):
I did what I was asked to do,so much so that even at the end
of strategic planning I likekind of put a bow on it and
handed it to the CEO.
I'm like this is what you askedme to do.
You have it Like now what?
And you know and and actuallystarted, you know, working with
TTI a little bit again andconsulting with HomeSmart.
(12:22):
At that time I think that bigpivot for me.
That really created a calmness.
Now We'll probably talk aboutthis as my biggest failure later
no promise on no tears.
But when I was you know, whenwe were being sat down and when
(12:42):
we were at dinner with thefounder of HomeSmart and he was
like, come back full time andtake it public and I was like I
don't know how to do that.
Right, I mean, that was myfirst answer and I was like I
don't know how to do that.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Right, I mean, that was my first answer.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
And I was like I'm really great at hiring, let me
build you a team and that knowswhat they're doing.
And he's like no, hire yourselfa team and do this.
And it was a five to seven yearplan.
Okay, we've got time.
You know, fast forward.
Nine months later, we'retalking to investors and we're
going on the path.
(13:16):
And when I say I knew nothingabout doing it, I knew less than
nothing about doing it.
And you know, no, it was not anoption and we were going to,
you know, figure it out.
And I think I share that,because there's so many times in
our careers where we're facedwith something, whether it's
(13:38):
entrepreneurship, whether it'sthe next step, whether it's a
leadership challenge where wehave no idea what to do.
And that's okay, sitting in,that is not okay, right?
So then, like, what are yournext steps?
Who are your resources?
How do you reach out?
How can you learn, learn, howcan you grow?
How can you lean into otherpeople?
and be okay with making somemistakes, be okay with owning
(14:00):
the fact that you don't knowwhat you're doing yeah and so
can we go through this together,you know, and not having to be
the smartest person in the room,right?
Um, and I think that that hasnow taught me that it doesn't
really matter what we're infront of, like, just figure it
out, like you.
You can, no matter howdifficult, you can definitely
(14:22):
figure things out.
Now.
I got a wild education throughthat two year process and, you
know, have some depth in a lotof areas now and have some depth
in a lot of areas now, butthere's still a lot of areas
it's like well, I don't know,but we'll find a way to get to.
Yes, let me just figure outwhat that path looks like.
I use the example or the analogysometimes with teammates, right
(14:44):
, a lot of places we go on adaily basis.
We know how to get there, weknow the path that we're
supposed to take.
I still put in ways just to seeis there a detour?
Is there this?
Is there a faster way?
Because there's often so manydifferent ways to get to the
goal, and just because we seethe path that is the most
(15:06):
consistent, the most straightline, doesn't mean that the
straight line is actually goingto get us there the fastest way,
because we could have biggerroadblocks in that and and I
think that that's important whenwe're looking at our careers,
when we're looking at thingsthat we're being faced with in
organizations, um, and just howwe go about life, I mean we talk
about it with our life planning, that we do personally, you
(15:27):
know I think it's.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
It's interesting because what you're just talking
about with putting things intoWaze or the Google Maps to
figure out, even though we'vebeen there every day, I do the
same thing because I go to oneclient quite often, but it's
like should I go to the 101 orthe 51?
And it's about being there andmaking sure you're on time and
all of those things.
But prior to Apex, we lived ina few different places in the
(15:52):
Valley.
Apex, we lived in a fewdifferent places in the valley
and tti, for the most part, wasin the same location for the
entire 30 plus years that I wasthere.
In 17 years, you were therewithin a few miles of different
offices and things, and I wouldfigure out new ways to go to the
office because I would getbored driving the same way to
the office every day, and so Ithink that's one of the one of
(16:13):
the areas when you look at ourbehavior, behavioral styles and
our driving forces that that'sone that's a little bit
different.
You, you focus a little bitmore on the structure of things
and and the efficiency of things, and that's one where it's like
I need something new, I need todo it a different way to get
there too, so very interestingfrom that standpoint.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
So let's talk a little bit about kind of the
transition to Apex.
So obviously we started Apex in22.
You had transitioned out of TTIat the end of 21.
And you know, going into thattransition mid-2022, I was going
crazy, you know, on a path totry to take an organization
(16:57):
public.
Lots of hours, lots of thingshappening and we really kind of
figured out, I thinkholistically for us, what 100%
is.
And you know we get asked thatquestion by friends and
colleagues.
You know, how do you worktogether, how do you have two
people that are driving thesedifferent things and doing all
these?
You know all these differentinitiatives and obviously have a
(17:21):
very strong personality andlike, like, how does it all work
?
And even just most recently inour last conversation, just on
our planning, you know it's not50-50 all the time on everything
right.
And I think the difference withus is we look at our life as
100% and that's what we dooutside of the home and what we
(17:41):
do inside of the home.
And on any given week, day,month, year, what split are?
We each kind of feel like wehave to cover that pie and we're
just going to cover it togetherand I think that that's a lot
of the foundation that webrought into.
Why Apex and why?
To start to do something on ourown and to do something
different.
But why don't you talk a littlebit about that creation and
(18:06):
your thought process in namingApex?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
because it was definitely a brainchild that you
had, but also like what youwanted it to create for us yeah,
I think when that transitionhappened and I decided it was
time to do something differentfrom the TTI standpoint and kind
of looking at myaccomplishments in life I guess
(18:32):
is one way to say it what couldI do next?
And there was a lot ofdifferent ideas in this and that
, but really I had been workingwith consultants, learning from
consultants, trainingconsultants on how to use the
assessments and the tools intheir businesses and things, and
(18:53):
that was just kind of turnedinto a natural transition.
And so as I started kind ofthinking about, okay, what would
a name look like, what wouldthe business have in terms of
services or products or thosekinds of things and obviously
the name is kind of aninteresting process that I went
through as well.
But kind of going through,where does the name come from?
(19:17):
And I'm a car guy, for those ofyou that know me, and so I
always kind of like the GTSstamp letters and so Grand
Touring Sport from a carstandpoint, from an Apex
standpoint, it's grow andsucceed the things we want to
help our clients do.
So then it was like, okay, well, I know I want GTS, what's the
word that goes in front of it,and so that was kind of all over
(19:40):
the place and growing up in the70s and 80s and like Acme from
Roadrunner and Coyote living inArizona Roadrunner and Coyote it
was kind of like well, maybeAcme.
So they started looking at thatword and acme and apex were
very similar and so apex seemeda little more appropriate.
(20:00):
It does have a car connectionbecause the apex of a corner the
fastest way to get through thecorner, um, so there was all of
those connections and so itturned into apex, gts advisors
from from that standpoint.
But then transitioning throughthe business, it was like
communication was always anissue, and one of the things
that I would see in certainsituations is sitting around a
(20:23):
conference table in a meetingand there were certain people
that talked all the time andcertain people that were kind of
quiet but you could see ontheir face that they had
something to say and a lot oftimes they just don't say it.
And so how do you put somethingtogether to help people
communicate?
How do you put somethingtogether to put comfort there,
(20:44):
create that safe zone ofcommunication?
Because some of the greatestideas that ever came out of the
TTI boardroom, so to speak, werewhen we had a knock down, drag
out argument over what we wantedto accomplish, because we
walked in there with 16different ideas and we came out
with one and then we drove thatone forward.
But we were really kind ofworking through the five
(21:13):
dysfunctions of a team and kindof having that trust in each
other to build the, to have thatconstructive conflict and then
have the buy-in to drive theidea forward, the peer
accountability and achieving theresults.
So some of those things we wereactually doing didn't realize
the model at the time.
Now it's one of my favoritemodels that I talk about quite
often and from there it justkind of my favorite models that
I talk about quite often.
But um, and from there it justkind of turned into what it is
(21:37):
today.
I didn't think I would ever beexcited about being a leadership
coach or an executive coach,but it's one of my favorite
parts of the, of the wholeprocess and and going back to
the, the driving forces, Ialways kind of played off of the
more commanding and resourceful, being in charge and making a
(21:57):
lot of money.
But what I've found is I'mreally driven by the intentional
, which is about helping peoplethat want to get better, so the
people that have that drive toget better and they don't quite
know how to get there.
And doing that really is issomething that's really fueled
my passion for, for the apexbusiness and and things that
that I do on a daily basis.
(22:18):
Your side of the business is alittle bit different.
You're not as excited about thepeople side, but talk a little
bit about maybe you started withthe, the org charts as a kid
and that kind of stuff.
So how does that lead into yourworking the strategy, building
the strategies and doing thethings that you like to do in
(22:40):
Apex?
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, you know, I just love to see the lights go
on I think is probably the mostsimplistic way to say it and I
love to empower people, to seethe part that they play in a
bigger vision.
And I think that people aremost successful when they
understand what it is, thatthey're there to contribute, how
their performance is going tobe measured and kind of what
(23:02):
they're going to gain out ofthat.
What are those rewards?
And I feel like doing thingslike stages of growth and
strategic planning and executionplanning and providing that
communication and that forum andthat scalability to individuals
in an organization just createsa voltage inside a company.
That is outrageous.
And and then you have yourpeople.
(23:24):
We're like, okay, that personneeds a little bit of tweaking
here and there.
Like get them a coach, havethem go through assessments, do
that.
But you really see what peopleare made of and what they want
to do when they have a plan infront of them and they can see
themselves, they see themselvesas a player in the game, right.
And it's like how do you geteverybody on the field when they
should be on the field in theright spot, going the right
(23:45):
direction at the right time?
And I feel like that's whatstrategy does.
I'm a full believer that peopleshow up to do a great job every
single day, that we don't try togo out to work to fail or make
mistakes or be miserable.
We've got to have them in theright spot and we have to have
the right amount of informationaround them so that they can be
successful and they can do theright things and they can ask
(24:07):
the right questions.
And then for me, it's very easythen to invest in those people,
to develop them, because you'reseeing what they're putting
into it and you know I andpotential is weird, right.
So you might see someone thathas a ton of potential, but
maybe it's not what they want,you know.
Maybe they don't want to workthe 70 hours a week, maybe they
(24:29):
want to have a differentdefinition of balance for
themselves, and you know that'sokay.
Maybe they don't want to have adifferent definition of balance
for themselves, and you knowthat's okay.
Maybe they don't want to manageothers, you know.
And so, really understanding,what does this person want?
How does that fit into thebigger game that you're playing
in business?
Right, teach them all the rules, show them the goal line and
(24:50):
then get out of their way,remove the obstacles, provide
the resources you know and letthem go.
And I think that that's justreally powerful when you can see
that all come together andcreate that alignment, you know.
And then you go in on quarterlycheck-ins and you're like, yeah,
done, done, done, becauseeveryone knew the game plan,
they had a playbook, they knewhow to operate and it just
really allows you to havehealthy, sustainable, scalable
(25:14):
growth, which then you can do somuch more for your people and
you can pay them more and youcan do more benefits and you can
give back to charity and youcan, you know, make a bigger
impact.
So it just cascades all of thatacross the organization and
ultimately the community, whichI think is pretty powerful.
When you think about we do alot of reading in our world.
(25:34):
Okay, what is a book that youreally think maybe has changed
your perspective since you havebeen leading Apex?
Speaker 3 (25:44):
That's tough because there are so many of them and
there are so many bits andpieces.
And driving from client toclient, I listen to a lot of
books.
I think I have 48 of themcurrently on my Audible library
a few that I haven't got to yet,a few that I've listened to
more than once From a peerleadership standpoint.
(26:07):
I think how to Lead when You'reNot in Charge by Clay Scroggins
was one of the biggest onesthat I've taken so much stuff
from.
Five Dysfunctions of a Team byLindsay Yoni is another one that
I quote quite often and,believe it or not, I really got
into the Covey stuff and Ididn't ever read that.
(26:30):
I always say that the twothings that if I could go back
and tell my teenage selfsomething which I probably
wouldn't have listened anyway,knowing teenagers.
But, um, I didn't pay attentionin typing class because I
thought I will never type in therest of my life, why do I need
typing class?
And now I type every day and Iwish I would have read more, and
(26:53):
so, like the 30 plus years atTTI, I didn't read that many
books.
There was a few, but sinceleaving TTI and starting Apex,
it's like not quite a book aweek, but getting close.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
And so it really makes such a difference because
there are so many nuggets in thebooks that come up in a
coaching process or aconversation with a client.
And then I love to just kind oftake the ideas of this concept,
what they're talking about, andit's like how can I build like
a one page, one pager that I canshare with several people on
(27:32):
how to apply the things that wejust were talking about?
And so that's been fun fromthat standpoint.
So if I had to narrow it down,it'd be those um, I know your
answer will probably besomething around the the andy
andrews stuff so I knew that'swhat you were gonna think um.
But just to finish that thoughtand tie it back to TTI a little
(27:54):
bit, we always laughed wheneverBill Bonstead or the owner of
TTI would say doing something'sbetter than nothing, and it was
like never made sense.
But now in a couple of thosebooks, do something?
Is the answer yes, and it'slike it was in a conversation
with a client today.
It was like you just have to dosomething, so act, don't stand
(28:16):
still talk about your books okay.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
So yes, I'm a big fan of the traveler's gift by Andy
Andrews.
Typically, if I have a newerleader that's looking to really
understand leadership, that is arecommendation I make because
it's more on principles ofdecision making and leadership
versus a structure or a model tofollow, and I think that
sometimes, especially newer inour careers, we can try to
(28:39):
emulate other leaders that wesee and then it becomes
inauthentic, right, and so it'snot genuine of who you are as an
individual and I feel like theAndy Andrews work allows you to
really be your authentic selfand elevate your leadership
style.
But if I had to pinpoint kindof a life-changing book, I think
I would actually go to Breakingthe Glass Slipper, and so that
(29:04):
was a book that I read summer of23.
And at that point we had, youknow, made the decision that we
were not going to take theorganization that I was working
for public and had started tokind of right size it for
private capacity again versusfor the run, and that, as you
(29:25):
know, is monumentally difficultfor me.
I really saw that as a failureon my own part, that I couldn't
get us quite across that finishline.
We had approval and all of that, but market did not cooperate
and we were on vacation and Iread this book and the book
really is about kind of beingunapologetic for who you are and
(29:51):
for making the decisions thatare right for you right now and
how that impacts your life, yourfamily, your friends, your
community, your work.
And it was just, it was a bookI needed in the moment and so I
would say, if you're, you know,it is definitely written towards
the female slant, I think it,you know, can definitely go both
directions.
But if you're kind of at thatdecision point of, well, what's
(30:15):
next and should I or shouldn't I, it just gives a lot of
different perspectives.
And you know, going into thattrip, um, I had made the
decision that I was reducing to50% of my time in my role and
was going to be doing apex 50%of the time.
And during that trip, when Ifinished my book, I came to you
and I said I think I'm going todo 100% and so we had that shock
(30:39):
value conversation.
And then obviously I needed tohave that conversation when I
returned home and it just gaveme that I can't even say
confidence.
It was more of a push becausethe safe decision was one foot
in, one foot out, right.
And the one foot in, one footout wasn't going to lead to
(31:00):
happiness, it wasn't going tolead to a change in behavior and
it definitely kind of pushed meover the edge to say like you
need to wake up and do somethingdifferent.
You know, conversations withour youngest son happened as
well that were eye-opening andit was like okay, it's time to
make a change.
But I do credit that book forgiving me maybe the courage is
(31:20):
the right word to kind of makethat jump.
So I know we want to talk aboutfailures and so maybe I'll just
kind of transition into thatbecause I touched on it.
You know we all try to go afterbig things in life and you know
some bigger than others, but forany one person it's as big as
(31:42):
you feel, it is right, it's bigto you and that's what matters,
because you're sitting in yourseat and you know, obviously,
trying to IPO a company was bigand I don't think anyone would
argue with that and this one wasin particularly large with the
way in which we were structuredand what we were doing and
acquisitions and things are allhappening at the same time and,
as I mentioned earlier, I had noidea what I was doing and so
(32:05):
learning and growing through allof that, you know we kind of
made the decision mid-2022 thatit probably wasn't real,
feasible and I mean, if we'rebeing candid I have to say it
was probably early 2024 that Icould talk about it not
(32:25):
happening without being broughtto tears.
Yeah, and it was that real andthat personal for me.
And you know, you put in the 90hours a week for however long,
and the grind and the sacrificesand all of that, and I would
love to sit here and say, but Idid all this work and then what
happened?
The work led to a greateducation, great teamwork, major
(32:47):
strides, like there's a lot ofsuccess in all of that with the
work.
I don't even care that it wasall the work.
It there was a goal that wasn'tachieved and in my mind and so
like by definition, like thatwas failure and and in hindsight
it was good and it was theright decision for the business
and all of those kinds of things.
But it took a really long timeand I would, so I would actually
(33:12):
now say my biggest failurewasn't that.
My biggest failure was how Ilooked at the situation and for
how long it took me to get backto a place where I didn't feel
like I needed to like find whatmy next was or make up for it
differently, and that I couldjust be good with what was and
(33:34):
move on in a healthy way.
And I mean, it probably took melike 18 months to really get to
a good place after all of that.
So you know sharing that,because we all have those
moments, we have those thingswe're leading up to.
You know, maybe you're thinkingabout doing an acquisition,
maybe you're thinking aboutselling off a piece of your
company or you're workingthrough your exit strategy doing
an acquisition, maybe you'rethinking about selling off a
piece of your company or you'reworking through your exit
(33:55):
strategy.
You might go through three, six,ten different things that don't
work out.
You're going to learn in eachone.
Your company is going to bebetter after each one, because
you're constantly like cleaningthings up and right-sizing and
doing all of that.
But don't forget to enjoy thatpart of the journey and to look
at the journey as that um, justfinished gap in the gain Right,
(34:19):
and so keeping in that gainmindset and the progress versus
what you were originally tryingto achieve.
Um, but allow yourself to behuman too.
You know we don't have to haveit all together all the time,
and when you're going that hardafter something and you're
putting that much effort into it, you know there is a cycle for
getting through that andprocessing it.
(34:39):
And just allow yourself thatand don't think you're the only
one and don't be shy in leaningin for others, you know, for
support.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
That gave me time to think because I knew I was going
to have the same question and Ithink that there wasn't a
failure in there.
I mean you did everything youneeded to do.
There were a lot of factorsthat went into the timing that
really were the piece, andthat's where you and I had a lot
of conversations over that.
Next, whether it was six months, 12 months, 18 months, wherever
(35:13):
you got to the point where youcan have that conversation about
it.
Thinking to mine, I don't knowthat I've ever done anything
that big, so that I don't have astory that really compares to
it.
But I've got a couple of thingsthat I've been thinking about,
and one is kind of early on,when I started doing more
training with TTI and made acouple international trips and
(35:39):
got the hard feedback of itwasn't it may be okay to present
like that in the United States,but it doesn't have the same
level of professionalism forEurope that Europe needs and
expects kind of a thing, and sodigesting that and just kind of
understanding what I needed todo to be a better speaker from
(36:01):
that standpoint, which is one ofthe things I really do enjoy I
think that was something that Ilearned a lot from of kind of
saying, ok, where do I go fromhere, what do I need to do, so
that I can in my mind it's whatdo I need to do so I can prove
them wrong, that I am a goodspeaker, kind of a thing.
So it's just a little bit of athought process from there, but
(36:23):
it turned into something thatwas very, I think, good
long-term.
The other one is learning tofail fast and accept that it's
not working in reverse course,and I don't even remember what
it was, but there was somethingthat I was driving hard through
(36:44):
TTI, that I wanted to make thischange and it was going to be
good for the organization andfor consultants involved and
everybody, and I think it wasmaybe two weeks in.
It was just not going the way Ithought it would and so it was
like reverse it, let's go, Iwill, I will take the fall for
this and just kind of seeing thepositivity of everybody from
(37:06):
making that quick change andlearning to fail fast versus
just keep beating the dead horse, so to speak.
I think those are a couplethings, and now I can utilize
those kinds of things inconversations, in coaching
conversations, in those kinds ofareas to help the light bulbs
(37:27):
and things come on.
You had mentioned earlier aboutyou like to see the light bulbs
come on.
And I was actually in acoaching conversation one
morning and we were talkingabout doing it yourself versus
involving your team.
And it's like he said to me butthe team doesn't ever offer any
solutions.
And I said, because you walkinto a room and tell them what
(37:49):
to do.
Well, yeah, I was like, okay,what if you walked in the room
and you asked them what theythought?
And he looked at me.
He's like I can do that.
Well, of course, he's like it'slike a 5 000 watt light bulb
just went off above my head andit like changed his, changed his
life almost in terms of how hedealt with people and that kind
of stuff, and so I wouldn't callit it was a failure, but it was
(38:12):
just like an aha moment forthat coaching person.
And it just comes from how dowe take the lessons learned and
utilize them and apply themforward and that kind of thing.
And I think a lot of companiesdon't they either cover it up.
And it was funny because thecompany I was working with
yesterday we were talking aboutaccountability, and their word
(38:36):
for that is don't be the cat.
I was like, what does don't bethe cat mean?
And I'm thinking well, I'm atASU, so maybe it's Wildcats, but
no, that wasn't it.
They're like well, what does acat do when it goes to the
bathroom?
It goes in the litter box andit covers it up.
It's like don't be the cat.
(39:00):
And so that was their yeah thatwas their way of.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Of saying uh, be accountable for your actions
kind of a thing.
So that was pretty cool.
It works, yeah, um.
So I think kind of the finaltopic we wanted to discuss with
our viewers today is, um, advice, uh, and we kind of framed it
up as like the best piece ofadvice that we had received or
your favorite piece of advice.
I wanted to start with a pieceof advice that probably led me
down the wrong direction for awhile.
(39:22):
And so, you know, early in mycareer I was getting some
coaching on from a leader on howI was showing up and too
vulnerable, too animated, toothis and just too transparent,
and so for years I was trying toput on the front and be more
(39:43):
poised and you know watchingexactly what I would say, and I
had a direct report across mydesk one day and we were
handling a really volatilesituation with a customer and I
was nervous and and I was likeshaking, um, I was basically
(40:03):
shutting off this customer'sbusiness.
Uh, and rightfully so.
We had done the documentation,like everything was above board,
but it still was not an easydecision to execute.
And so after we get off thephone with this individual hang
up, you know, I asked, you know,my teammate.
I said you know, do you haveany questions Like what did you
learn from you?
Know me demonstrating that foryou?
(40:24):
And he looked at me and he goesthat you're human.
I was like what does that evenmean?
And he goes that's probably thefirst time I've seen you be
really human.
I was like what does that evenmean?
And he goes that's probably thefirst time I've seen you be
really human.
And it just hit me.
You know, all this advice onadvice on how we needed to show
up in the room and not beingtransparent and not being open
(40:45):
with our teammates was actuallymaking me come across as not
trustworthy and like I washiding something and that I
wasn't authentic.
And there's balance.
Obviously we want to haveexecutive presence and be
professional, but how do you dothat?
Where you are transparent andwhere you are showing, you know
that you're not hiding thingsand because people will follow
(41:07):
that person, they follow peoplethey trust and they follow
people that they believe in.
You know, know being likedeventually is important.
Sure, it's nice, but beingtrusted and knowing that you
know if I follow this person,they're going to be real with me
, I'm going to understand thepath and they're going to have
my back as we go through thisprocess together.
(41:29):
And so I do kind of cautionright process together.
And so I do kind of cautionright, making sure that you're
aligned in an organization thatis aligned with your core values
and who you are, where you canbe your authentic self.
You know later.
You know, working in anorganization where it very much
was you are who you are and showup as you are and that that's
okay.
And it's probably like theother extreme right, still
(41:52):
overly transparent at times.
It is definitely my a fault ofmine, but people know where they
stand and so I just, you knowcaution, some of that advice,
because I think that it did leadme down a trail for a little
bit that I was probablydisenfranchising my team versus
connecting with them.
And then the other thing kindof goes back to like you don't
(42:12):
know what you don't know untilyou're in front of it.
And I had a business coachexternal one time when you know
we were leading the organizationand talking about the goals
over the next couple of years,I'm like, but am I going to know
how to run that size company?
And he just kind of took me backfrom when I started running the
company and he's like did youknow how to run this size or
(42:35):
this size?
So you know, if you're sittingthere and you have a five
million dollar company, you maynot know how to run a 10 million
dollar company, you may notknow how to run a 15 million
dollar company, but when you hada 1 million dollar company, did
you know how to run a five?
Yeah, right.
And so if you're at a 50 andyou're going to 150, like, no,
you don't, but you didn't knowhow to do what you're doing
right now, before you were doingit too.
Like, do we have our textbook?
(42:55):
Do we have our models?
Sure, but until you're in it,you really don't know the ins
and outs and the dynamics andthe complexity that people bring
to the equation.
And, um, you know.
So I would just encouragepeople to kind of fight through
that and understand.
It's okay to understand thatyou don't know what's next, but
enjoy the journey of figuring itout.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Yeah, those uncomfortable situations build
the confidence, and that's whatyou need.
You figured it out, you'llfigure out the next one, you'll
figure out the next one, andevery day we're getting more and
more tools at our fingertips tokind of do that.
Sometimes you don't even haveto type, you can just talk to
(43:35):
your computer and it tells youwhat you need to know too.
So that's nice.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
I guess something that's really beautiful about
what you do, though, is, youknow, yes, like I love the
structure and the strategy andthose kind of things, but you
really sit down with thatindividual and have them, you
know, increase theirself-awareness, really
understand who they are, whatmakes them tick, where their
faults are, how they'reperceived, so that they have
that frame of reference forgoing into the organization and
playing that part in the gameand being that player in order
(44:02):
to execute, which is a prettyamazing seat at the table.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
And I think that kind of ties to the advice question
too, and I guess I'll stick withthe graphic stuff that I've
started today.
Um, don't just show up andthrow up.
I mean you have to be authentic.
Um like to take that a littlebit more specific.
It's you have to have your ownstories and so, like those early
(44:27):
days of doing training and someof those kinds of things is you
would regurgitate what othertrainers have said because it's
like, well, that made a lot ofsense, but it's not your own
story, so it's not as authenticas once you've done it yourself.
And then you can start to applythat.
And and I think thatauthenticity also comes back to
(44:48):
the ability to ask questions andthen truly listen to what the
answers are and then use thewords of the other person.
And I think that's where thecoaching stuff really really
thrives is because it's not metelling them what they need to
do.
It's me asking them questionsand then pointing out the things
that they've already said andjust saying try it this way,
(45:09):
what if you did this?
What impact is that going tohave?
I mean, and just those are thetypes of things that make a
difference, and I think I forgetwhat it's called the awe
question.
And what else?
Yes, and so it's like and whatelse?
And so like.
Then they start thinking andsometimes it's the most
important piece comes from theand what else?
Question you know.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
I think the most freeing moment as a leader is
that moment when you realizethat your job is not to have all
the answers.
You know, and because we canalways have questions.
Questions are easy.
We can ask questions all daylong and be curious, but we
don't have to have all theanswers, we don't have to have
it all figured out.
And that is a very freeingmoment as a leader when we can
rest on that and and build thatconfidence to be okay with not
(45:54):
having all the answers and beingin that room.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
And, I think, another .
That's a freeing moment.
One of the hardest transitionsas a leader is understanding
that you're not responsible forthe work.
You're responsible for thepeople that are doing the work.
And it's like we want to jumpback in and get our hands dirty
and that kind of stuff, butsometimes that's the worst thing
you can do as a leader versus.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
I need to see that checklist with everything
highlighted at the end of theday, yeah, yes, I am one of
those people that writes thingsdown that are done, just so that
I can highlight them as done.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
But it just keeps coming up.
I had that conversation thismorning with the client as well.
It's just like no, that's notwhat you should be doing.
But I mean, it's just like no,that's not what you should be
doing.
But I like to do it, but still,you're not.
That's not it.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Well, this has been great.
You know, as always, our goalis to inspire leadership,
inspire confidence and help, youknow, all of you reach your
apex in your organizations andyour life and what you're trying
to achieve.
So I hope you enjoyed gettingto know a little bit more about
the two of us and kind of what'sbehind the story of Apex and
where we are with our careerstoday.
So thank you for watching.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Thanks for tuning in to the Confidence Curve.
We hope today's episode leftyou inspired and ready to
embrace your journey confidently.
Remember whether you're leadinga team, growing your business
or pursuing personal growth,each step forward builds your
curve.
If you enjoyed today'sconversation, don't forget to
(47:22):
subscribe, share and leave us areview For more insights and
resources.
Visit us at apexgtscom.
Until next time, keep climbingthe curve.
Welcome to the Confidence Curve with Ashley and
Rick Bowers, where personal andprofessional journeys define
the art of scaling withconfidence.
Whether you're a businessleader navigating change or
someone seeking personal growth,this podcast offers insights
and actionable advice to helpyou thrive.
Now let's dive into today'sconversation with our incredible
(00:26):
guest.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to the Confidence Curve.
My name is Ashley Bowers andI'm here with my co-host and
husband, Rick Bowers.
Today's episode is going to bea little different.
We decided to take a moment andturn the mics on ourselves,
talk a little bit about how wegot here, why we got here and
some of the lessons that we'velearned in leadership in life,
(00:50):
in working together and beingentrepreneurs over, you know,
the last 20 plus years thatwe've been on this journey in
one capacity or another.
So welcome to today's show andwe hope you enjoy so kind of.
You know, when we think abouthow we got started.
You were working at TTI,Success Insights, and which back
(01:13):
then was TTI PerformanceSystems.
I think if we're really datingourselves.
I started at TTI as areceptionist.
I think from interview one, youand I could kind of talk about
anything and everything and thatdefinitely created an amazing
professional relationship whicheventually bloomed into,
obviously, our personalrelationship and, I think,
(01:35):
probably keeps us very strongand grounded still to this day
and something that people lookfor in all of their
relationships, whether they'rebusiness or personal.
You know, thinking back tothose days and why don't you
kind of share a little bit withour audience about how you got
started at TTI and what you weredoing and kind of what brought
(01:58):
you out to Arizona from Iowa andgive a little bit of a back
story.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yeah, I mean, when I think about kind of everything
that you set up there and in theearly days at TTI and and kind
of what led to that, it reallygoes back to being from Iowa and
the Iowa roots and how you kindof just do what's necessary
kind of a thing, and and from avery early age, like I think I
(02:23):
started mowing grass and andthat kind of stuff in second or
third grade and um, that led to,like delivering newspapers and,
um, working on the farm, to allthe different jobs that I had
back there.
That just kind of was like ifsomething needed to be done, you
did it, and it was thatbuilding of respect for for
(02:46):
whoever was the leader at thetime, and so that really kind of
built, I think, something thatisn't there anymore.
Um, and I think the other thingthat I was thinking about with
this question is there wasn't aninternet back then.
You couldn't go and watch ayoutube video, so like if you
needed to figure something out,you had to figure something out
(03:07):
on your own or go find somebodythat knew how to do it or
experiment, and so I think thatkind of built a lot of the
background to kind of what I'mabout, what Apex is about.
Kind of what you and I, becauseyou started a little bit
different than I did, but asimilar path, I guess.
Coming down from Iowa to go toArizona State and ran into the
(03:33):
owner of TTI.
He knew my dad.
They needed somebody part-time,so I started part-time going to
ASU back in 1988.
Fast forward 33 years later.
It was time for a newtransition and six months after
that Apex was born.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Well, it's interesting because, like when
you first started right, it wasdoing whatever needed to be done
and you kind of alluded to thatBack then.
You know, assessments weredelivered on diskettes, like
floppy disks and disks and andduplicating those and printing
flyers and shipping things out,and then just slowly learn the
business, learn the aspects youknow through time and then
obviously went up that ladder,you know, with Inside TTI.
(04:15):
I think back to my upbringingand, although not Midwest, being
, you know, born and raised herein Arizona.
My grandfather my, you know mydad, like all my uncles, you
know, born and raised here inArizona, my grandfather my, you
know my dad, like all my uncles,you know all in commercial
construction, very hard work,and you know very significant
work.
Along with that, mygrandparents owned beauty
(04:38):
supplies.
So this was before you had Ultaand Sephora and all these big
box you know supply chains forbeauty products, long before the
internet, obviously, and so wehad about 13 beauty supplies
around the valley.
And you know, growing up Iwould go to the work with my mom
(04:59):
when before I was in school andnow I hear the stories my aunt
would be doing the books and Iwas three years old, sitting on
the floor and separating out thevisa, mastercard and Amex
receipts and that was like theold carbon copy thing and my
aunt would say Ashley, you know,hand me the visas and I would
(05:20):
hand her the pile.
That started with fours and Iwas three or four years old, you
know, and sitting on the lapsof reps that were selling us
product and just being in theconversation and I know we've
carried that on with our kids,taking them to business trips
and just inviting them to theenvironment.
I think and I think that that'sso much of what has shaped who
(05:43):
you are and who I am is we'vealways been in and around and
trying to maximize what we'rebringing to the environment,
that we're in um, and what itcan teach us and what we can
take on to the next thing thatwe do, which definitely was a
secret of success to us while wewere at TTI.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah, and think I'm not sure where it comes from,
but it turned into one of ourcore values the childlike
curiosity which is, I guess, myfavorite of our core values as
well, and it's just thatcuriosity of how things work.
I would get in trouble as alittle kid for taking things
(06:22):
apart but I wanted to see whatwas inside them and that kind of
stuff.
And and I it's still today.
I think that's something thatmakes apex special is our
abilities to be able to see thethings that other people don't
see, to pick up on the details,to pick up on the little things
(06:43):
and then kind of dig into it,ask the questions, that kind of
get it at a different level.
And then my favorite thing withwith whether it's coaching or
working with a group of people,it's listening to what their
answer is, because there's somuch value in the words that
people say and they don't evenrealize it when they say it.
So that curiosity, I think,just plays out over and over,
(07:06):
and I'm sure you're tired of it.
It's like I'll say something.
It's like did you notice thaton the commercials or did you
notice this in the show?
It doesn't connect and it'slike it just pick up on things
that I don't think a lot ofpeople pick up on.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I think it's interesting, though, because you
come from the place of, likehow do I take it apart and see
how all of it works and what'sticking?
And then you know, instead ofplaying with paper dolls, I
built org charts and builtcompanies in my room as a little
kid and like to see, like, howcan you structure it back
together in the right way tomaximize that efficiency?
You know, um, which isinteresting Our poor children.
(07:41):
They listen to us talk and thisis what we talk about, but we
love it.
I think each of us can pointback to a pivot that was.
You know, that happened in ourcareer.
That maybe really changed thetrajectory of where we went.
And when I look at your careerwithin TTI, one of the things
that comes to mind was when youwere kind of sectioned off to go
(08:05):
and lead and build theinternational division.
You know, being anentrepreneurial founder-led
company, sometimes, you know,when you're an employee in that,
you feel like you can't break aceiling or move forward or
you're never really going to getto that next step, and with
that can be lost learningopportunity, because that person
is there, and I feel like thatwas really pivotal for you to go
(08:28):
and build something else tolater come back and be the
president of the whole thing.
Can you talk a little bit about, maybe, the fear of like wait,
you know, am I being put overhere what's happening, why this
change and then how it reallyhelped your career in the long
run?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, it was an interesting time because it was
a little bit of uncertainty withwhat's this going to look like
dealing with people in othercountries.
Sometimes there's languagebarriers, there's all of these
things.
But as it kind of started toplay out and working with the
(09:04):
international group and kind ofunderstanding who they are and
that things work just about thesame internationally as they do
in the US, and so that was kindof that comfort piece.
And and then there's theconfidence, because confidence
comes from working through anuncomfortable situation and so I
(09:24):
feel like I've gone through alot of those kind of
uncomfortable situations andwhether that was intentional by
by Bill, the owner of TTI, or ifit was just coincidence, it
worked out.
But I think learning frompeople that have done certain
things has been a key.
(09:44):
People that have done certainthings has been a key.
And, uh, dave brought in anotherperson on the team that was a
kind of self-proclaimed problemsolver rolando.
And the thing I think reallymade a difference for me was the
deming stuff, the fourthgeneration management, and
seeing what that can do andputting a name to the processes
(10:07):
and the things that were just inin our minds maybe, um, kind of
helped to be a little bit morestructured and and how you do it
and realizing the thing, simplethings like uh right things
done right the first time, andthat kind of stuff made a
difference.
And being able to then starttraveling the world and seeing
(10:29):
the different cultures andseeing how businesses worked
from all over the world was, Ithink, a big part of the
leadership development for meand and then learning from
mistakes and we all mademistakes along the way and
didn't really have a clear pathof where we were going and kind
(10:50):
of built it as we were going.
It's, I think, flying orbuilding the airplane as we fly.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
It is something that's pretty natural, I guess,
for for me, you know it's funny,you mentioned the thing that
builds the confidence.
When I was first thinking aboutthe career pivot topic,
immediately I went tocollectively the switch for me
(11:16):
to go from TTI to HomeSmart.
But as you mentioned theconfidence piece, I think that
was the first step, you know,after leaving TTI and you know,
wanting to start consulting backthen and doing things different
, and had the opportunity tomeet the founder of HomeSmart
and join that organization asthe chief operating officer.
It was really about can I takeeverything that I've learned
(11:39):
through in essence, like in theclassroom at TTI, about how
companies should operate youknow there was some interaction
with clients, but most of ourwork was with consultants and
such and can I apply this andimplement change and affect
change and do the right things?
And so that was kind of aconfidence building piece.
But a few years in I had thatfeeling of okay, box is checked,
(12:01):
I did what I was asked to do,so much so that even at the end
of strategic planning I likekind of put a bow on it and
handed it to the CEO.
I'm like this is what you askedme to do.
You have it Like now what?
And you know and and actuallystarted, you know, working with
TTI a little bit again andconsulting with HomeSmart.
(12:22):
At that time I think that bigpivot for me.
That really created a calmness.
Now We'll probably talk aboutthis as my biggest failure later
no promise on no tears.
But when I was you know, whenwe were being sat down and when
(12:42):
we were at dinner with thefounder of HomeSmart and he was
like, come back full time andtake it public and I was like I
don't know how to do that.
Right, I mean, that was myfirst answer and I was like I
don't know how to do that.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Right, I mean, that was my first answer.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
And I was like I'm really great at hiring, let me
build you a team and that knowswhat they're doing.
And he's like no, hire yourselfa team and do this.
And it was a five to seven yearplan.
Okay, we've got time.
You know, fast forward.
Nine months later, we'retalking to investors and we're
going on the path.
(13:16):
And when I say I knew nothingabout doing it, I knew less than
nothing about doing it.
And you know, no, it was not anoption and we were going to,
you know, figure it out.
And I think I share that,because there's so many times in
our careers where we're facedwith something, whether it's
(13:38):
entrepreneurship, whether it'sthe next step, whether it's a
leadership challenge where wehave no idea what to do.
And that's okay, sitting in,that is not okay, right?
So then, like, what are yournext steps?
Who are your resources?
How do you reach out?
How can you learn, learn, howcan you grow?
How can you lean into otherpeople?
and be okay with making somemistakes, be okay with owning
(14:00):
the fact that you don't knowwhat you're doing yeah and so
can we go through this together,you know, and not having to be
the smartest person in the room,right?
Um, and I think that that hasnow taught me that it doesn't
really matter what we're infront of, like, just figure it
out, like you.
You can, no matter howdifficult, you can definitely
(14:22):
figure things out.
Now.
I got a wild education throughthat two year process and, you
know, have some depth in a lotof areas now and have some depth
in a lot of areas now, butthere's still a lot of areas
it's like well, I don't know,but we'll find a way to get to.
Yes, let me just figure outwhat that path looks like.
I use the example or the analogysometimes with teammates, right
(14:44):
, a lot of places we go on adaily basis.
We know how to get there, weknow the path that we're
supposed to take.
I still put in ways just to seeis there a detour?
Is there this?
Is there a faster way?
Because there's often so manydifferent ways to get to the
goal, and just because we seethe path that is the most
(15:06):
consistent, the most straightline, doesn't mean that the
straight line is actually goingto get us there the fastest way,
because we could have biggerroadblocks in that and and I
think that that's important whenwe're looking at our careers,
when we're looking at thingsthat we're being faced with in
organizations, um, and just howwe go about life, I mean we talk
about it with our life planning, that we do personally, you
(15:27):
know I think it's.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
It's interesting because what you're just talking
about with putting things intoWaze or the Google Maps to
figure out, even though we'vebeen there every day, I do the
same thing because I go to oneclient quite often, but it's
like should I go to the 101 orthe 51?
And it's about being there andmaking sure you're on time and
all of those things.
But prior to Apex, we lived ina few different places in the
(15:52):
Valley.
Apex, we lived in a fewdifferent places in the valley
and tti, for the most part, wasin the same location for the
entire 30 plus years that I wasthere.
In 17 years, you were therewithin a few miles of different
offices and things, and I wouldfigure out new ways to go to the
office because I would getbored driving the same way to
the office every day, and so Ithink that's one of the one of
(16:13):
the areas when you look at ourbehavior, behavioral styles and
our driving forces that that'sone that's a little bit
different.
You, you focus a little bitmore on the structure of things
and and the efficiency of things, and that's one where it's like
I need something new, I need todo it a different way to get
there too, so very interestingfrom that standpoint.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
So let's talk a little bit about kind of the
transition to Apex.
So obviously we started Apex in22.
You had transitioned out of TTIat the end of 21.
And you know, going into thattransition mid-2022, I was going
crazy, you know, on a path totry to take an organization
(16:57):
public.
Lots of hours, lots of thingshappening and we really kind of
figured out, I thinkholistically for us, what 100%
is.
And you know we get asked thatquestion by friends and
colleagues.
You know, how do you worktogether, how do you have two
people that are driving thesedifferent things and doing all
these?
You know all these differentinitiatives and obviously have a
(17:21):
very strong personality andlike, like, how does it all work
?
And even just most recently inour last conversation, just on
our planning, you know it's not50-50 all the time on everything
right.
And I think the difference withus is we look at our life as
100% and that's what we dooutside of the home and what we
(17:41):
do inside of the home.
And on any given week, day,month, year, what split are?
We each kind of feel like wehave to cover that pie and we're
just going to cover it togetherand I think that that's a lot
of the foundation that webrought into.
Why Apex and why?
To start to do something on ourown and to do something
different.
But why don't you talk a littlebit about that creation and
(18:06):
your thought process in namingApex?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
because it was definitely a brainchild that you
had, but also like what youwanted it to create for us yeah,
I think when that transitionhappened and I decided it was
time to do something differentfrom the TTI standpoint and kind
of looking at myaccomplishments in life I guess
(18:32):
is one way to say it what couldI do next?
And there was a lot ofdifferent ideas in this and that
, but really I had been workingwith consultants, learning from
consultants, trainingconsultants on how to use the
assessments and the tools intheir businesses and things, and
(18:53):
that was just kind of turnedinto a natural transition.
And so as I started kind ofthinking about, okay, what would
a name look like, what wouldthe business have in terms of
services or products or thosekinds of things and obviously
the name is kind of aninteresting process that I went
through as well.
But kind of going through,where does the name come from?
(19:17):
And I'm a car guy, for those ofyou that know me, and so I
always kind of like the GTSstamp letters and so Grand
Touring Sport from a carstandpoint, from an Apex
standpoint, it's grow andsucceed the things we want to
help our clients do.
So then it was like, okay, well, I know I want GTS, what's the
word that goes in front of it,and so that was kind of all over
(19:40):
the place and growing up in the70s and 80s and like Acme from
Roadrunner and Coyote living inArizona Roadrunner and Coyote it
was kind of like well, maybeAcme.
So they started looking at thatword and acme and apex were
very similar and so apex seemeda little more appropriate.
(20:00):
It does have a car connectionbecause the apex of a corner the
fastest way to get through thecorner, um, so there was all of
those connections and so itturned into apex, gts advisors
from from that standpoint.
But then transitioning throughthe business, it was like
communication was always anissue, and one of the things
that I would see in certainsituations is sitting around a
(20:23):
conference table in a meetingand there were certain people
that talked all the time andcertain people that were kind of
quiet but you could see ontheir face that they had
something to say and a lot oftimes they just don't say it.
And so how do you put somethingtogether to help people
communicate?
How do you put somethingtogether to put comfort there,
(20:44):
create that safe zone ofcommunication?
Because some of the greatestideas that ever came out of the
TTI boardroom, so to speak, werewhen we had a knock down, drag
out argument over what we wantedto accomplish, because we
walked in there with 16different ideas and we came out
with one and then we drove thatone forward.
But we were really kind ofworking through the five
(21:13):
dysfunctions of a team and kindof having that trust in each
other to build the, to have thatconstructive conflict and then
have the buy-in to drive theidea forward, the peer
accountability and achieving theresults.
So some of those things we wereactually doing didn't realize
the model at the time.
Now it's one of my favoritemodels that I talk about quite
often and from there it justkind of my favorite models that
I talk about quite often.
But um, and from there it justkind of turned into what it is
(21:37):
today.
I didn't think I would ever beexcited about being a leadership
coach or an executive coach,but it's one of my favorite
parts of the, of the wholeprocess and and going back to
the, the driving forces, Ialways kind of played off of the
more commanding and resourceful, being in charge and making a
(21:57):
lot of money.
But what I've found is I'mreally driven by the intentional
, which is about helping peoplethat want to get better, so the
people that have that drive toget better and they don't quite
know how to get there.
And doing that really is issomething that's really fueled
my passion for, for the apexbusiness and and things that
that I do on a daily basis.
(22:18):
Your side of the business is alittle bit different.
You're not as excited about thepeople side, but talk a little
bit about maybe you started withthe, the org charts as a kid
and that kind of stuff.
So how does that lead into yourworking the strategy, building
the strategies and doing thethings that you like to do in
(22:40):
Apex?
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, you know, I just love to see the lights go
on I think is probably the mostsimplistic way to say it and I
love to empower people, to seethe part that they play in a
bigger vision.
And I think that people aremost successful when they
understand what it is, thatthey're there to contribute, how
their performance is going tobe measured and kind of what
(23:02):
they're going to gain out ofthat.
What are those rewards?
And I feel like doing thingslike stages of growth and
strategic planning and executionplanning and providing that
communication and that forum andthat scalability to individuals
in an organization just createsa voltage inside a company.
That is outrageous.
And and then you have yourpeople.
(23:24):
We're like, okay, that personneeds a little bit of tweaking
here and there.
Like get them a coach, havethem go through assessments, do
that.
But you really see what peopleare made of and what they want
to do when they have a plan infront of them and they can see
themselves, they see themselvesas a player in the game, right.
And it's like how do you geteverybody on the field when they
should be on the field in theright spot, going the right
(23:45):
direction at the right time?
And I feel like that's whatstrategy does.
I'm a full believer that peopleshow up to do a great job every
single day, that we don't try togo out to work to fail or make
mistakes or be miserable.
We've got to have them in theright spot and we have to have
the right amount of informationaround them so that they can be
successful and they can do theright things and they can ask
(24:07):
the right questions.
And then for me, it's very easythen to invest in those people,
to develop them, because you'reseeing what they're putting
into it and you know I andpotential is weird, right.
So you might see someone thathas a ton of potential, but
maybe it's not what they want,you know.
Maybe they don't want to workthe 70 hours a week, maybe they
(24:29):
want to have a differentdefinition of balance for
themselves, and you know that'sokay.
Maybe they don't want to have adifferent definition of balance
for themselves, and you knowthat's okay.
Maybe they don't want to manageothers, you know.
And so, really understanding,what does this person want?
How does that fit into thebigger game that you're playing
in business?
Right, teach them all the rules, show them the goal line and
(24:50):
then get out of their way,remove the obstacles, provide
the resources you know and letthem go.
And I think that that's justreally powerful when you can see
that all come together andcreate that alignment, you know.
And then you go in on quarterlycheck-ins and you're like, yeah,
done, done, done, becauseeveryone knew the game plan,
they had a playbook, they knewhow to operate and it just
really allows you to havehealthy, sustainable, scalable
(25:14):
growth, which then you can do somuch more for your people and
you can pay them more and youcan do more benefits and you can
give back to charity and youcan, you know, make a bigger
impact.
So it just cascades all of thatacross the organization and
ultimately the community, whichI think is pretty powerful.
When you think about we do alot of reading in our world.
(25:34):
Okay, what is a book that youreally think maybe has changed
your perspective since you havebeen leading Apex?
Speaker 3 (25:44):
That's tough because there are so many of them and
there are so many bits andpieces.
And driving from client toclient, I listen to a lot of
books.
I think I have 48 of themcurrently on my Audible library
a few that I haven't got to yet,a few that I've listened to
more than once From a peerleadership standpoint.
(26:07):
I think how to Lead when You'reNot in Charge by Clay Scroggins
was one of the biggest onesthat I've taken so much stuff
from.
Five Dysfunctions of a Team byLindsay Yoni is another one that
I quote quite often and,believe it or not, I really got
into the Covey stuff and Ididn't ever read that.
(26:30):
I always say that the twothings that if I could go back
and tell my teenage selfsomething which I probably
wouldn't have listened anyway,knowing teenagers.
But, um, I didn't pay attentionin typing class because I
thought I will never type in therest of my life, why do I need
typing class?
And now I type every day and Iwish I would have read more, and
(26:53):
so, like the 30 plus years atTTI, I didn't read that many
books.
There was a few, but sinceleaving TTI and starting Apex,
it's like not quite a book aweek, but getting close.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
And so it really makes such a difference because
there are so many nuggets in thebooks that come up in a
coaching process or aconversation with a client.
And then I love to just kind oftake the ideas of this concept,
what they're talking about, andit's like how can I build like
a one page, one pager that I canshare with several people on
(27:32):
how to apply the things that wejust were talking about?
And so that's been fun fromthat standpoint.
So if I had to narrow it down,it'd be those um, I know your
answer will probably besomething around the the andy
andrews stuff so I knew that'swhat you were gonna think um.
But just to finish that thoughtand tie it back to TTI a little
(27:54):
bit, we always laughed wheneverBill Bonstead or the owner of
TTI would say doing something'sbetter than nothing, and it was
like never made sense.
But now in a couple of thosebooks, do something?
Is the answer yes, and it'slike it was in a conversation
with a client today.
It was like you just have to dosomething, so act, don't stand
(28:16):
still talk about your books okay.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
So yes, I'm a big fan of the traveler's gift by Andy
Andrews.
Typically, if I have a newerleader that's looking to really
understand leadership, that is arecommendation I make because
it's more on principles ofdecision making and leadership
versus a structure or a model tofollow, and I think that
sometimes, especially newer inour careers, we can try to
(28:39):
emulate other leaders that wesee and then it becomes
inauthentic, right, and so it'snot genuine of who you are as an
individual and I feel like theAndy Andrews work allows you to
really be your authentic selfand elevate your leadership
style.
But if I had to pinpoint kindof a life-changing book, I think
I would actually go to Breakingthe Glass Slipper, and so that
(29:04):
was a book that I read summer of23.
And at that point we had, youknow, made the decision that we
were not going to take theorganization that I was working
for public and had started tokind of right size it for
private capacity again versusfor the run, and that, as you
(29:25):
know, is monumentally difficultfor me.
I really saw that as a failureon my own part, that I couldn't
get us quite across that finishline.
We had approval and all of that, but market did not cooperate
and we were on vacation and Iread this book and the book
really is about kind of beingunapologetic for who you are and
(29:51):
for making the decisions thatare right for you right now and
how that impacts your life, yourfamily, your friends, your
community, your work.
And it was just, it was a bookI needed in the moment and so I
would say, if you're, you know,it is definitely written towards
the female slant, I think it,you know, can definitely go both
directions.
But if you're kind of at thatdecision point of, well, what's
(30:15):
next and should I or shouldn't I, it just gives a lot of
different perspectives.
And you know, going into thattrip, um, I had made the
decision that I was reducing to50% of my time in my role and
was going to be doing apex 50%of the time.
And during that trip, when Ifinished my book, I came to you
and I said I think I'm going todo 100% and so we had that shock
(30:39):
value conversation.
And then obviously I needed tohave that conversation when I
returned home and it just gaveme that I can't even say
confidence.
It was more of a push becausethe safe decision was one foot
in, one foot out, right.
And the one foot in, one footout wasn't going to lead to
(31:00):
happiness, it wasn't going tolead to a change in behavior and
it definitely kind of pushed meover the edge to say like you
need to wake up and do somethingdifferent.
You know, conversations withour youngest son happened as
well that were eye-opening andit was like okay, it's time to
make a change.
But I do credit that book forgiving me maybe the courage is
(31:20):
the right word to kind of makethat jump.
So I know we want to talk aboutfailures and so maybe I'll just
kind of transition into thatbecause I touched on it.
You know we all try to go afterbig things in life and you know
some bigger than others, but forany one person it's as big as
(31:42):
you feel, it is right, it's bigto you and that's what matters,
because you're sitting in yourseat and you know, obviously,
trying to IPO a company was bigand I don't think anyone would
argue with that and this one wasin particularly large with the
way in which we were structuredand what we were doing and
acquisitions and things are allhappening at the same time and,
as I mentioned earlier, I had noidea what I was doing and so
(32:05):
learning and growing through allof that, you know we kind of
made the decision mid-2022 thatit probably wasn't real,
feasible and I mean, if we'rebeing candid I have to say it
was probably early 2024 that Icould talk about it not
(32:25):
happening without being broughtto tears.
Yeah, and it was that real andthat personal for me.
And you know, you put in the 90hours a week for however long,
and the grind and the sacrificesand all of that, and I would
love to sit here and say, but Idid all this work and then what
happened?
The work led to a greateducation, great teamwork, major
(32:47):
strides, like there's a lot ofsuccess in all of that with the
work.
I don't even care that it wasall the work.
It there was a goal that wasn'tachieved and in my mind and so
like by definition, like thatwas failure and and in hindsight
it was good and it was theright decision for the business
and all of those kinds of things.
But it took a really long timeand I would, so I would actually
(33:12):
now say my biggest failurewasn't that.
My biggest failure was how Ilooked at the situation and for
how long it took me to get backto a place where I didn't feel
like I needed to like find whatmy next was or make up for it
differently, and that I couldjust be good with what was and
(33:34):
move on in a healthy way.
And I mean, it probably took melike 18 months to really get to
a good place after all of that.
So you know sharing that,because we all have those
moments, we have those thingswe're leading up to.
You know, maybe you're thinkingabout doing an acquisition,
maybe you're thinking aboutselling off a piece of your
company or you're workingthrough your exit strategy doing
an acquisition, maybe you'rethinking about selling off a
piece of your company or you'reworking through your exit
(33:55):
strategy.
You might go through three, six,ten different things that don't
work out.
You're going to learn in eachone.
Your company is going to bebetter after each one, because
you're constantly like cleaningthings up and right-sizing and
doing all of that.
But don't forget to enjoy thatpart of the journey and to look
at the journey as that um, justfinished gap in the gain Right,
(34:19):
and so keeping in that gainmindset and the progress versus
what you were originally tryingto achieve.
Um, but allow yourself to behuman too.
You know we don't have to haveit all together all the time,
and when you're going that hardafter something and you're
putting that much effort into it, you know there is a cycle for
getting through that andprocessing it.
(34:39):
And just allow yourself thatand don't think you're the only
one and don't be shy in leaningin for others, you know, for
support.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
That gave me time to think because I knew I was going
to have the same question and Ithink that there wasn't a
failure in there.
I mean you did everything youneeded to do.
There were a lot of factorsthat went into the timing that
really were the piece, andthat's where you and I had a lot
of conversations over that.
Next, whether it was six months, 12 months, 18 months, wherever
(35:13):
you got to the point where youcan have that conversation about
it.
Thinking to mine, I don't knowthat I've ever done anything
that big, so that I don't have astory that really compares to
it.
But I've got a couple of thingsthat I've been thinking about,
and one is kind of early on,when I started doing more
training with TTI and made acouple international trips and
(35:39):
got the hard feedback of itwasn't it may be okay to present
like that in the United States,but it doesn't have the same
level of professionalism forEurope that Europe needs and
expects kind of a thing, and sodigesting that and just kind of
understanding what I needed todo to be a better speaker from
(36:01):
that standpoint, which is one ofthe things I really do enjoy I
think that was something that Ilearned a lot from of kind of
saying, ok, where do I go fromhere, what do I need to do, so
that I can in my mind it's whatdo I need to do so I can prove
them wrong, that I am a goodspeaker, kind of a thing.
So it's just a little bit of athought process from there, but
(36:23):
it turned into something thatwas very, I think, good
long-term.
The other one is learning tofail fast and accept that it's
not working in reverse course,and I don't even remember what
it was, but there was somethingthat I was driving hard through
(36:44):
TTI, that I wanted to make thischange and it was going to be
good for the organization andfor consultants involved and
everybody, and I think it wasmaybe two weeks in.
It was just not going the way Ithought it would and so it was
like reverse it, let's go, Iwill, I will take the fall for
this and just kind of seeing thepositivity of everybody from
(37:06):
making that quick change andlearning to fail fast versus
just keep beating the dead horse, so to speak.
I think those are a couplethings, and now I can utilize
those kinds of things inconversations, in coaching
conversations, in those kinds ofareas to help the light bulbs
(37:27):
and things come on.
You had mentioned earlier aboutyou like to see the light bulbs
come on.
And I was actually in acoaching conversation one
morning and we were talkingabout doing it yourself versus
involving your team.
And it's like he said to me butthe team doesn't ever offer any
solutions.
And I said, because you walkinto a room and tell them what
(37:49):
to do.
Well, yeah, I was like, okay,what if you walked in the room
and you asked them what theythought?
And he looked at me.
He's like I can do that.
Well, of course, he's like it'slike a 5 000 watt light bulb
just went off above my head andit like changed his, changed his
life almost in terms of how hedealt with people and that kind
of stuff, and so I wouldn't callit it was a failure, but it was
(38:12):
just like an aha moment forthat coaching person.
And it just comes from how dowe take the lessons learned and
utilize them and apply themforward and that kind of thing.
And I think a lot of companiesdon't they either cover it up.
And it was funny because thecompany I was working with
yesterday we were talking aboutaccountability, and their word
(38:36):
for that is don't be the cat.
I was like, what does don't bethe cat mean?
And I'm thinking well, I'm atASU, so maybe it's Wildcats, but
no, that wasn't it.
They're like well, what does acat do when it goes to the
bathroom?
It goes in the litter box andit covers it up.
It's like don't be the cat.
(39:00):
And so that was their yeah thatwas their way of.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Of saying uh, be accountable for your actions
kind of a thing.
So that was pretty cool.
It works, yeah, um.
So I think kind of the finaltopic we wanted to discuss with
our viewers today is, um, advice, uh, and we kind of framed it
up as like the best piece ofadvice that we had received or
your favorite piece of advice.
I wanted to start with a pieceof advice that probably led me
down the wrong direction for awhile.
(39:22):
And so, you know, early in mycareer I was getting some
coaching on from a leader on howI was showing up and too
vulnerable, too animated, toothis and just too transparent,
and so for years I was trying toput on the front and be more
(39:43):
poised and you know watchingexactly what I would say, and I
had a direct report across mydesk one day and we were
handling a really volatilesituation with a customer and I
was nervous and and I was likeshaking, um, I was basically
(40:03):
shutting off this customer'sbusiness.
Uh, and rightfully so.
We had done the documentation,like everything was above board,
but it still was not an easydecision to execute.
And so after we get off thephone with this individual hang
up, you know, I asked, you know,my teammate.
I said you know, do you haveany questions Like what did you
learn from you?
Know me demonstrating that foryou?
(40:24):
And he looked at me and he goesthat you're human.
I was like what does that evenmean?
And he goes that's probably thefirst time I've seen you be
really human.
I was like what does that evenmean?
And he goes that's probably thefirst time I've seen you be
really human.
And it just hit me.
You know, all this advice onadvice on how we needed to show
up in the room and not beingtransparent and not being open
(40:45):
with our teammates was actuallymaking me come across as not
trustworthy and like I washiding something and that I
wasn't authentic.
And there's balance.
Obviously we want to haveexecutive presence and be
professional, but how do you dothat?
Where you are transparent andwhere you are showing, you know
that you're not hiding thingsand because people will follow
(41:07):
that person, they follow peoplethey trust and they follow
people that they believe in.
You know, know being likedeventually is important.
Sure, it's nice, but beingtrusted and knowing that you
know if I follow this person,they're going to be real with me
, I'm going to understand thepath and they're going to have
my back as we go through thisprocess together.
(41:29):
And so I do kind of cautionright process together.
And so I do kind of cautionright, making sure that you're
aligned in an organization thatis aligned with your core values
and who you are, where you canbe your authentic self.
You know later.
You know, working in anorganization where it very much
was you are who you are and showup as you are and that that's
okay.
And it's probably like theother extreme right, still
(41:52):
overly transparent at times.
It is definitely my a fault ofmine, but people know where they
stand and so I just, you knowcaution, some of that advice,
because I think that it did leadme down a trail for a little
bit that I was probablydisenfranchising my team versus
connecting with them.
And then the other thing kindof goes back to like you don't
(42:12):
know what you don't know untilyou're in front of it.
And I had a business coachexternal one time when you know
we were leading the organizationand talking about the goals
over the next couple of years,I'm like, but am I going to know
how to run that size company?
And he just kind of took me backfrom when I started running the
company and he's like did youknow how to run this size or
(42:35):
this size?
So you know, if you're sittingthere and you have a five
million dollar company, you maynot know how to run a 10 million
dollar company, you may notknow how to run a 15 million
dollar company, but when you hada 1 million dollar company, did
you know how to run a five?
Yeah, right.
And so if you're at a 50 andyou're going to 150, like, no,
you don't, but you didn't knowhow to do what you're doing
right now, before you were doingit too.
Like, do we have our textbook?
(42:55):
Do we have our models?
Sure, but until you're in it,you really don't know the ins
and outs and the dynamics andthe complexity that people bring
to the equation.
And, um, you know.
So I would just encouragepeople to kind of fight through
that and understand.
It's okay to understand thatyou don't know what's next, but
enjoy the journey of figuring itout.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Yeah, those uncomfortable situations build
the confidence, and that's whatyou need.
You figured it out, you'llfigure out the next one, you'll
figure out the next one, andevery day we're getting more and
more tools at our fingertips tokind of do that.
Sometimes you don't even haveto type, you can just talk to
(43:35):
your computer and it tells youwhat you need to know too.
So that's nice.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
I guess something that's really beautiful about
what you do, though, is, youknow, yes, like I love the
structure and the strategy andthose kind of things, but you
really sit down with thatindividual and have them, you
know, increase theirself-awareness, really
understand who they are, whatmakes them tick, where their
faults are, how they'reperceived, so that they have
that frame of reference forgoing into the organization and
playing that part in the gameand being that player in order
(44:02):
to execute, which is a prettyamazing seat at the table.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
And I think that kind of ties to the advice question
too, and I guess I'll stick withthe graphic stuff that I've
started today.
Um, don't just show up andthrow up.
I mean you have to be authentic.
Um like to take that a littlebit more specific.
It's you have to have your ownstories and so, like those early
(44:27):
days of doing training and someof those kinds of things is you
would regurgitate what othertrainers have said because it's
like, well, that made a lot ofsense, but it's not your own
story, so it's not as authenticas once you've done it yourself.
And then you can start to applythat.
And and I think thatauthenticity also comes back to
(44:48):
the ability to ask questions andthen truly listen to what the
answers are and then use thewords of the other person.
And I think that's where thecoaching stuff really really
thrives is because it's not metelling them what they need to
do.
It's me asking them questionsand then pointing out the things
that they've already said andjust saying try it this way,
(45:09):
what if you did this?
What impact is that going tohave?
I mean, and just those are thetypes of things that make a
difference, and I think I forgetwhat it's called the awe
question.
And what else?
Yes, and so it's like and whatelse?
And so like.
Then they start thinking andsometimes it's the most
important piece comes from theand what else?
Question you know.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
I think the most freeing moment as a leader is
that moment when you realizethat your job is not to have all
the answers.
You know, and because we canalways have questions.
Questions are easy.
We can ask questions all daylong and be curious, but we
don't have to have all theanswers, we don't have to have
it all figured out.
And that is a very freeingmoment as a leader when we can
rest on that and and build thatconfidence to be okay with not
(45:54):
having all the answers and beingin that room.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
And, I think, another .
That's a freeing moment.
One of the hardest transitionsas a leader is understanding
that you're not responsible forthe work.
You're responsible for thepeople that are doing the work.
And it's like we want to jumpback in and get our hands dirty
and that kind of stuff, butsometimes that's the worst thing
you can do as a leader versus.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
I need to see that checklist with everything
highlighted at the end of theday, yeah, yes, I am one of
those people that writes thingsdown that are done, just so that
I can highlight them as done.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
But it just keeps coming up.
I had that conversation thismorning with the client as well.
It's just like no, that's notwhat you should be doing.
But I mean, it's just like no,that's not what you should be
doing.
But I like to do it, but still,you're not.
That's not it.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Well, this has been great.
You know, as always, our goalis to inspire leadership,
inspire confidence and help, youknow, all of you reach your
apex in your organizations andyour life and what you're trying
to achieve.
So I hope you enjoyed gettingto know a little bit more about
the two of us and kind of what'sbehind the story of Apex and
where we are with our careerstoday.
So thank you for watching.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Thanks for tuning in to the Confidence Curve.
We hope today's episode leftyou inspired and ready to
embrace your journey confidently.
Remember whether you're leadinga team, growing your business
or pursuing personal growth,each step forward builds your
curve.
If you enjoyed today'sconversation, don't forget to
(47:22):
subscribe, share and leave us areview For more insights and
resources.
Visit us at apexgtscom.
Until next time, keep climbingthe curve.
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