December 9, 2024 • 43 mins
Join us for an engaging episode of the Confidence Curve as we welcome Jen Folk, the dynamo behind the operations team at TriPoint Connect. From her beginnings as employee number one, Jen has been instrumental in scaling the company from a mere concept to a thriving team of 75 members in just a year. Her insights on navigating the whirlwind of a startup environment, while balancing the need to wear multiple hats and eventually delegate, are invaluable for anyone facing similar growth challenges. Jen's journey is a testament to the power of resilience and strategic thinking in the fast-paced world of the mortgage industry.
Discover the art of developing people and aligning personal and professional goals with Jen as we explore the intricacies of building a cohesive team. We discuss the balancing act of placing the right people in the right roles and the importance of reassessing team needs in a constantly evolving landscape. Transparency and strategic communication emerge as vital elements in fostering a positive organizational culture, helping to avoid the pitfalls of controlling information out of fear. Jen's experience offers a masterclass in leadership and teamwork, highlighting the benefits of nurturing an environment where everyone feels valued and empowered.
As we navigate the complex post-COVID-19 workplace, Jen shares her perspective on the shift back to in-office settings and the strategies used to encourage employee attendance. From flexible scheduling to creative incentives, we look at how organizations can address employee resistance and integrate hybrid work models effectively. Additionally, the episode touches on the impact of external factors like election years on the housing market and the importance of personal development within the team. Jen leaves us with inspiring anecdotes and actionable strategies, making this episode a must-listen for those looking to scale confidently in their careers and beyond.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:31):
Thank you.
Welcome to the Confidence Curvewith Ashley and Rick Bowers,
where personal and professionaljourneys define the art of
scaling with confidence.
Whether you're a businessleader in an avenue of change or
someone seeking personal growth, this podcast offers insights
and actionable advice to helpyou thrive.
Now let's dive into today'sconversation with our incredible
(00:51):
guest.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Welcome to the Confidence Curve.
Thank you for being here, jen.
So Rick and I are here todaywith Jen Folk of TriPoint
Connect, and Jen and I have hadthe opportunity to work together
in the past for a few years andwe've known each other for a
while, and so I'm just so happythat you're here to join us
today.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Well, thank you so much.
I am really appreciative of theinvite to join you and looking
forward to the things that we wewere looking to talk about
Awesome.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Well, we're gonna jump right in.
And if you could tell us alittle bit about you and about
TriPoint and what have you beenup to on this new journey?
Oh gosh.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Well, let's see, I've been in the mortgage business
for more than 20 years and so inthat time I've done a few
things, you know, and it's beena great journey.
It's been one of those thingsthat nobody ever actually
chooses to join the mortgagebusiness.
Nobody wakes up one day andsays you know what?
I think I want to be a mortgageprofessional, so a lot of us
just land there and then, as yougo through the journey, the
(01:54):
highs and the lows, you findyourself in different positions.
So that's been a big piece ofmy journey has been different
parts of the mortgage operationsside in particular, and in the
last year I've actually been afounding member I would say
founding in the sense ofTriPoint Connect as a startup
organization, and I've spent thelast year growing and so I'm
kind of excited.
There's a lot of things you andI did in our past lives
together and some of that comesinto the new organization I've
(02:18):
been with.
But TriPoint Connect is thewholly owned mortgage company
that serves TriPoint Homes,which is a national builder, and
we actually do have a presencehere in the local Phoenix market
.
So we've built our fulfillmentoperations team here locally and
that's a big piece of mypassion is building the team.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
And you know, just talking to you a couple
different times over the lastyear or so and the growth that
you've experienced.
So can you kind of talk aboutthat startup and you know
employee number one versus whereyou are today within TriPoint
and maybe share some lessonslearned?
Obviously, we both have a bighistory in employee development
and hiring and so it's alwaysgreat to hear what best
practices have you beenimplementing as you've been
(02:59):
growing that team and creatingculture inside TriPoint.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Yeah, it's funny, I was employee number one, in the
sense of the organization wasjust fully starting and I joined
in October of last year.
So just last week I celebratedmy one-year anniversary and you
know we joke around a little bitabout it because we thought one
year, you know, it's going tobe forever, it's going to take a
long time, and you blink andthen the year is over.
(03:23):
So you know, we started inOctober of last year.
I added a handful of peoplebefore the end of last year, but
we really focused on creatingour core team, starting in
January, and in the time sincewe've added I think I'm up to 75
team members as of now.
It's exciting.
You know it doesn't sound likea lot, but when you're trying to
(03:44):
add them in rapid successionand you're hiring in batches,
you've got 10 new hires everyMonday and it's a flurry of
activity.
It's exciting Building astartup.
For some people they don'tunderstand the depth of what
you're putting into it, but I'veenjoyed.
Really.
It's a combination of adding tothe team and a combination of
(04:07):
developing the business at thesame time.
So you have to be prepared forthe pace of that and you blink
and a year is gone already.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, I mean lessons learned, right, obviously, your
history with assessments and thecoaching and stuff that you do
with people.
I mean that's rapid, rapidgrowth and having to almost hire
in those cohorts, as youmentioned.
You know, 10 new peoplestarting on Monday.
I'm sure you have some seriousquestions on that for her.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, I was just thinking too.
I was employee number one withTTI back in 1988.
So when TTI moved to Arizona,it was just father-son that were
the founders and that was thefirst one that they hired, going
part-time at ASU and kind ofdoing a little bit of everything
.
So you kind of get that youunderstand the business from a
whole different level whenyou're the first person there,
(04:58):
and so it's exciting from thatstandpoint.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I think it's fun that you mentioned being employee
number one and wearing many hats, and that is kind of the key
right.
When you're employee number oneor five or in your you're in
that first dozen, you arewearing a lot of hats at that
point because everything hasn'tbeen fully developed.
There's not a department tohandle that.
You are the department.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah and I think that the tricky part then is to
understand when to take the hatoff, because you're wearing so
many hats for so long, but nowyou're bringing in all of these
people and you're bringing in 10people a week and it's like,
all right, I need to get rid ofthis hat.
It's like who can I delegate to?
And that's one of the thingsthat I find a lot with with
clients is that they strugglewith the delegation because they
(05:38):
don't always have the trustlevels, and so it's like how do
you build the trust or do youdelegate?
Which comes first, the chickenor the egg?
Speaker 4 (05:44):
in that situation, I feel like, did you just look in
my notebook?
I carry this notebook with meand these are things that I
constantly am like exploring andreminding myself and saying,
okay, am I doing the right thing?
Am I empowering my team?
Am I entrusting you knowsomething to be done?
Have I given them a goodpicture of what needs to be done
?
So I just literally, when yousaid that I'm going to show you
(06:06):
the page it's written on, all ofthose things are all written on
the same page.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
That's amazing, you know.
Obviously we use the stages ofgrowth model.
We used it, you know, in ourpast life together and we use it
inside Apex and you know stageone is one to ten employees and
you know already being up to 75employees.
That's looking at a stage fivecompany.
It's getting really large andhaving time in each of those
stages is what helps you build aculture and sustain operations
(06:32):
and have that foundation andthat infrastructure.
So talk to us a little bitabout going from stage one to
stage five in 12 months.
Obviously, you have the supportof a large organization behind
you too, but you really werespearheading all that here and
how did you create a culturethat could handle that type of
rapid?
Speaker 4 (06:51):
growth.
You know, I think we're prettyfortunate because we do have a
fantastic parent organizationthat has a lot of infrastructure
already, you know, embedded init right, and so we were able to
lean heavily on a lot of that.
But also on top of it, I wasfortunate enough to staff my
core leadership team with somepeople that I have some history
with and I think there's somevalue in you're able to ramp up
(07:14):
and you hit the ground running alittle bit faster and people
you have those relationshipswith you know the trust and the
proving yourself all over again.
That timeline is shorter, so Ithink that would probably be one
thing I would point to whichhelped me.
You know, I staffed my coreleadership team in January and
then they also were able tobring in folks that they had
(07:34):
from their past.
I know that's I would say that'sprobably also a byproduct of
the market we're in right now.
You know I don't take forgranted that the mortgage
industry we have our highs, wehave our lows and it's been one
of the longer lows.
So we've been really fortunateto be able to grab the right
people at the right point intime as far as trying to keep
them engaged in culture andthose things.
(07:56):
That's a daily effort for us.
I mean it's weekly.
There's a lot of things we'restill learning and working on
together, and collaboration is areally big piece of that for us
.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
That's one of the things that I talk a lot with
clients about is thattransparency and the
communication aspects of it, andthat's a big piece of trust,
which is when you think aboutthe five dysfunctions of a team.
Trust is kind of that baseline.
It's like how do you build thetrust and the transparency, the
being comfortable having thoseconversations when you bring in
people that you've worked within the past?
(08:30):
You kind of hit the groundrunning with those people, but
then how do you build that trustwith the people that you just
hired and just met?
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I'm going to tell you that is a challenge we're
continuing to work on.
You know that is definitelywe've had a lot of conversations
because we all see the vision.
At our level right, we're highup and we see the vision and
we've bought into it and we'reworking on it and we want to
think that we're able to cascadethe information down and we're
doing it regularly.
But you can take any survey,any employee survey, and I don't
(08:59):
it doesn't matter whatorganization you're in.
Probably the number one pieceof feedback you're gonna see is
we need more communication.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah, I'm always like what does it mean?
Yeah, right, and like, please,if you're gonna say
communication, define it for me.
What specifically are youlooking for?
Because it can mean multiplethings to one person, much less
if you're surveying 100 peopleor 300 people or 500 people,
you're starting to multiply thatcomplexity of figuring out what
is communication, meet and whattype of communication, what
(09:26):
frequency of communication.
We talk a lot about push-pullright, and how can we push out
the communication three timesbut then turn it into something
that every employee can pull andand they have access to, so
that we can flip thataccountability of keeping
informed to the employee versusthe management team constantly
having to make sure, like, didevery single person here
(09:46):
understand and are they able toact on whatever it is that we
were trying to communicate?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, and then there's the nonverbal
communication.
I mean, you and I are bothfamous for that is, our teams
would ask us a question and theywould just watch our faces they
didn't even really need to hearthe answer because they would
get that and so we would callthat facial comments as opposed
to expressions, they weren'talways positive.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
I think I've seen that once or twice.
We knew exactly how Ashleywould respond to something, and
you'd look and you'd go yep.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah, usually when facial comments are before words
come out, it's not a positivereaction.
That's the hard thing.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
There are a ton of books just on learning to read
body language and it's like howare you?
They're like you twistedsideways, are you straight?
Are your hands crossed?
Speaker 4 (10:32):
I mean there's just so many things that can indicate
how the conversation is goingto go and that's a huge part of
communication that people don'tthink about well, and I think
one of the biggest challenges is, like, for us, we're actually
in an office three days a weekand so we have the ability to
interact personally, right, butwhen you're dealing with we have
some folks that are remote, andso when you're dealing with
(10:53):
that remote side of things, thecommunication you're pushing out
, you don't always know how theytook it and you can't always
tell.
You know the body language,because cameras are off or those
types of things, things, and sothose are the challenges you
continue to face when you'retrying to get the whole team on
board and understand, have themunderstand where you're going
with things.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, the famous, like they yelled at me like, did
you, did you talk to the person?
Like, well, no, they sent me anemail.
Okay, well, was it in all caps?
Well, no, but just based on thetone.
Like I'm like, was there audiowith that email, or are we just
associating?
Right, but it's hard, and thenwe find ourselves doing it too.
(11:30):
We have to check ourselves.
Even though we can teach thatand coach that with the people
who work with us, we have to.
Then also, how did we take anemail?
How did we understand?
I feel like this was mymidnight conversation with our
teenager last night about hiswork environment right now.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Midnight conversations are never good, no
.
So, growing up in theassessment world with TTI and
kind of understanding from theground up how assessments work
and how important it is to kindof get that true understanding
of an individual, what are someof the ways that you utilize to
kind of find the uniqueness inthe different individuals?
(12:05):
So that you utilize to kind offind the uniqueness in the
different individuals and sothat you can do the things like
delegate and which roles arethey going to be most successful
in?
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Yeah, I mean we always start with kind of what
are their motivators, whatexcites them?
Because if you can understandreally where they want to go,
like why they're coming in, whythey do what they do, then you
can think about how you're goingto get them where you need them
to be.
And so a lot of our leadership,their interactions with their
(12:32):
team members, are reallyunderstanding like, why are you
doing what you do?
We do a lot.
Obviously, we have a skill setthat we have to have.
So we start there and weunderstand what skills they have
.
But on top of that, it'simportant to us that they feel
like they have a developmentpath and so that development
could be either personal orprofessional.
And so we've done a few things.
We're really trying toencourage our team, saying hey,
(12:53):
you know what, we're here foryou, but we want you to take
these skills and we want totranscend the day-to-day of your
job and we want to help improve, for example, relationships at
home and with your teenagers andthe folks that you know that
you're dealing with outside ofhere.
So for us we start with how,what, what motivates the person?
Like, how do we get them wherethey're at today?
Where do they want to go, and?
(13:13):
And what do we play into that?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
you know, it's just so interesting when you talk
about that motivation and thedriving and that fit right and
just like kind of the energizersright.
So how do you get them wherethey?
Just they want to be in it andat it all the time and I know
obviously in our work togetherit's really hard drive going
really fast.
You know, at a point we were,you know, trying to ready a
company for an IPO.
(13:38):
During your journey and thoserapid growth moments, the
startup moments, obviouslythere's a lot of lessons learned
and sometimes when we're in it,they aren't really lessons that
we want to learn right at thatmoment or we're not seeing the
value or the benefit that that'sgoing to play out later.
It's like, looking back, whatare some of those lessons
learned that maybe while youwere experiencing, you're like
(13:59):
what am I doing or why is thishappening?
But now there's some of thebiggest lessons that have really
helped you propel your career.
And my follow-up to that wouldbe you know, what advice would
you give that emerging leaderwho's maybe going through some
of those lessons right now tokeep pushing through?
Speaker 4 (14:13):
You know, I think, gosh, where can I start?
So many lessons learned.
I really think that the mainone is, for me, has been you
know, don't it's?
We all want to.
We want to be successful, right, and we want to take what we're
doing and we want it to bemagnified and we want people to
(14:35):
see that we've done these things.
But what's most important is totake what you're doing and to
stay focused on what you cancontrol, right, what is within
your control.
And we oftentimes startspiraling because there are
things that are outside of whatwe're working on and we think
that if we can just bring thisback in and work on it and
control it in our space, thenthat's going to change what
we're working on.
(14:56):
And so this is a personal lifelesson.
I'll tell you what my motherhas been telling me my whole
entire life.
You know what you cannot workon.
You cannot control everything.
You need to worry about what iswithin your control, and so I I
probably practice that on adaily basis.
But you know, the lessons youlearn are just, honestly, you,
you need to stay focused in whatis in this sphere today and
(15:20):
then you can move to what comesnext.
I mean, I'm a big pictureperson and I'm always looking so
far in advance and my problemthere is that I'm looking so far
in advance, I'm not alwaysseeing like what's right here
and what is today and what haveI just done yesterday, and and
you can't forget those thingsbecause that's taking you where
you need to go for the next yearyeah, that kind of goes back to
(15:41):
the having the right people inthe organization, but are they
in the right seat within theorganization?
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Can you, from a big picture standpoint, like break
it down into the compartmentswhere everybody kind of fits
into these different places?
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I love that you just mentioned that, because you know
, as we staffed our team, wesaid, okay, these are the people
we need today in these seats.
But you know what who we needtoday and who we need six months
from now, and what seats havechanged.
And so we are constantlyreevaluating and we're saying,
all right, well, we brought thisperson in and they've been in
the seat, but now we have thisgrowing need for this other area
(16:14):
and is there a reshuffle?
And that, for me, is one area.
I do have to be careful,because I'm a very
love-to-move-quick.
Put me in something new.
I get excited by it.
Some people need morecontinuity and they want to stay
in a seat a little bit longerand, as a startup, you may need
them to move faster.
So, are they in the right seats?
Do you have the right people?
It's constant.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
And sometimes that goes back to being able to
utilize the assessments becauseyou can see, from a behavior
standpoint, are they verydynamic when it comes to pace?
Are they steady when it comesto this?
Are they direct when it comesto pace or they study when it
comes to this, or they directwhen it comes to problems?
Are they more reflective?
And so you kind of get anunderstanding of how they prefer
to do what they do, which tiesinto the why they're getting out
of bed every morning and comingto work, and so those two
simple things tell you so muchabout the organ or about the
(17:01):
individual and how they fit inthe organization it's not you
talk about.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
You know control right, and I think a lot of us
that are really, you know,driven and, and you know, trying
to achieve things.
Um, ultimately, like, we liketo win, and I always think, like
, does anyone not like to?
win like I don't know anyonethat wakes up and like how do I
lose today, right, um, and in,you know, just in that
conversation?
I think sometimes we try tocontrol information and the
(17:27):
dissemination of information outof fear that, well, if people
know this or you know, if I haveto talk about this, like maybe
that'll redirect them or itmight deflate them.
How do you decide whatinformation and what really you
know, vulnerable, candidinformation, you share when
you're trying to coach peopletoward, towards that win?
Because I always feel like ifsomeone has a scorecard in front
(17:48):
of them, they can always knowwhere am I at and having that
information, even if it's notgreat information is much more
kind.
Someone used to work with usedto always say clear is kind and
and it really is, because peoplewant to know how am I scoring
up if I, if I don't know if I'mwinning, like how do I know when
(18:08):
I've won right, like how do Iever get that satisfaction?
So how do you determine whatkind of information to
disseminate?
Speaker 4 (18:16):
yeah, I'm probably more on the side of an overshare
category, right?
I really, because I am one ofthose people that wants to know
myself.
I tend to want to share and bevery clear and be very candid
and transparent.
Where I draw the line is, againif it's not something that they
have any control over andthey're not going to be able to
(18:38):
influence the outcome of it andit's just going to create
conflict for them or it's goingto create a problem where they
are struggling, that's somethingI won't necessarily share and
through my career, obviouslyI've had to be a holder of
information strategic decisionsthat mortgage companies are
(18:58):
making, we're going to closethis particular market, and so
knowing that information inadvance and then maybe having to
not share it because you can't,you kind of create this place
where you say, okay, if I had toknow that information myself in
advance and it was going totear me up, is that the kind of
information I should be sharingwith people?
And so for me, that's where I'vekind of created the
(19:21):
differentiator.
Sometimes I'll share theinformation with them and I'll
say to them I actually don'thave an answer for this right
now.
I want you to know about itbecause it's something that's
coming at us or it's somethingwe're working on, but I don't
have an answer for you.
And again, you have to kind ofcreate the line where you say,
if I give this information tothem and I don't have an answer,
is that also going to createconflict that I then have to
(19:42):
manage?
And if I can't manage throughthat, then I just choose not to
pass it on until I have moreinformation for them.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Do you ever give permission for them to ask you
questions, or excuse me toquestion you?
Speaker 4 (19:55):
That is such a great question.
Yes, and, by the way, I lovethat you mentioned the
assessments, because that issomething that has been near and
dear to our heart.
That is a part of ourorganization, as well as
understanding the differentstyles, characteristics what
drives people.
But I had a recent examplewhere one of my leaders and I
have vastly different styles andmy expectation is to be
(20:19):
questioned If someone doesn'tagree.
I want you to challenge me, butbased on their style.
That's not how they operateright.
And so we kind of kept goingback and forth and I just in my
mind kept saying, why are wehere?
And so we really sat down, wehad one of those very, very raw,
(20:41):
candid conversations with oneanother and ultimately I said I
don't want you to be a yesperson, I want you to ask.
And then it became the I thinkI need to tell everyone this so
you know, those are the momentswhere you, where you, you define
and go.
Okay, I assume you would haveknown that, based on how I think
I operate, but you didn't knowthat.
(21:02):
So now I need to change how Ioperate.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I mean you just see the light bulbs when you're
talking to a leader and have yougiven them permission to ask
the question or to question you,because everything that comes
out of your mouth shouldn't justbe taken for granted.
I mean when you really start toquestion things and have a
constructive conversation,that's where the magic actually
happens with the team.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Or even the expectation to question right,
not just even permission, Ithink you know, and even on
certain procedures and thingslike that, you know looking at
it and saying, okay, hey, you'vebeen following this procedure.
Is there a piece of the processthat once a month you're saying
, hey, does this process stillwork right?
Is there anything broken inthis?
Could this be improved in anyway and actually make a piece of
(21:42):
the process?
Questioning the process or, youknow, questioning the
individuals and things like that, just in the spirit of always
moving the organization alongand doing the right thing by
each other and, you know,building that culture.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
I think one of the things that we've learned
through our growth has been thatI'm certainly not afraid to
make any decisions.
And I'll make decisions.
I'll make them very quickly.
Sometimes I'll make decisions,I'll make them very quickly.
Sometimes I'll make decisionsone after another, all related
to the same topic, and sometimesthat causes my team's head to
spin a little bit.
But what we also have starteddoing is sitting down and saying
like, okay, well, we made thatdecision at that point in time
(22:18):
because that was what we wereworking with.
But as we've evolved, as we'vegrown, is that still where we
need to be?
And you know, we again I saycollaboration, that's been a
really big word in ourorganization.
And what we're, is that stillwhere we need to be?
And you know, we again I saycollaboration, that's been a
really big word in ourorganization.
And what we're building issaying, hey, we want to
collaborate on how we solve.
I am going to tell you,collaboration is phenomenal, but
you can't make all yourdecisions by committee, right?
(22:40):
I think that would probably bethe one thing you know.
We started off and I wanted allof my teammates to have the
ability to help build.
And no pun intended, right, wework for a builder, but we
wanted to build something reallyexciting.
And then what we found is youget 10 people in a room.
They have 10 fabulous ideas.
You walk out and say, well,we're going to think about that.
And you come back and you stillhaven't made a decision.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, so it's kind of one of the things that you know
you, you go okay, this is oneof the things we want as a
founding operating principle howwe operate, but we can't let
that be how all the decisionsget made, right.
Yeah, I mean, people reallyultimately just want to be heard
, like they have the opportunityto put their ideas out there.
They have the opportunity tokind of be part of the
(23:21):
discussion.
Whether their ideas is acceptedor not isn't as big a deal as
actually the fact that they gotto talk and put the idea out
there.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, I mean, I think , being transparent about it too
, like, hey, I'm looking forinput and information on this,
but ultimately, I'm going to goback and I'm going to consider
all things and I'm going to makea decision.
Or, you know, three of us aregoing to go back and we're going
to come back to you with adecision.
Or like, guys, this is a reallyopen discussion and let's work
at it until we get to a decisiontoday.
But we're going to get to adecision today, right?
(23:50):
I'm just kind of clarifying, isit what type of decision
process is going to happen?
We have a client right now andthey use the saying quite a bit.
We need to make the best rightdecision for right now.
I love that right, becausethere could be three or four
right decisions.
So, what's the best rightdecision?
And it's for right now, right?
So, yeah, it's prettyinteresting.
So what about, uh, workplaceflexibility?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
it kind of goes into some of the things that you've
been working on yeah, I thinkthat our world has changed over
the last four years with covetand moving from that majority of
organizations were in theoffice to going outside, with
having to be remote, and thenwhen is the right time to come
back in?
I think, based on the industrythat you're in, you have a lot
(24:37):
of people in the office, Iunderstand.
Was there a transition for that?
Only being a year old, you kindof just started from that
direction, or was there anyissue from a culture standpoint?
Speaker 4 (24:49):
oh gosh, this is our every week management topic, so
I'm so glad we're talking aboutthis.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Uh well, you and every other company out there,
by the way.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
I really am and and we do look at the news we're
like look at what other majororganization out there is now
calling people back?
Um, you know, we've workedreally hard and so we did do it
from day one because we believethat, as you're building this
organization and we are allbrand new, all of us it was
important for us to be in persontogether and there's a lot of
value in that.
But we are continuing to.
(25:20):
I'm going to say we're going tocontinue to fight the tide,
because people have said well,we've been successful working
from home, why should we come tothe office?
And so you know we're looking,we look at ways that they want
to come, like again, whatmotivates you?
So we have some people thathave said you know, I enjoy
working from home, but I've beenwearing pajamas for three years
(25:41):
and I look forward to gettingdressed on Monday, tuesday,
wednesday.
We do work in the office threedays a week.
It's been a challenge.
I'm not I'm really not going tolie like commuting people that
haven't commuted in a long time,and maybe some of them have
never actually commuted,depending on what their role was
, so encouraging them.
We do offer flex schedules.
So it's like look, if you, ifyou leave your house at a
(26:03):
certain time and you can gethere 15 minutes faster and you
want to come in earlier, weallow that.
We run, you know, a long shiftand so people can it's not an
entirely like pick your schedulecome in whenever you want, but
you know we run a shift thatlets them come in earlier or
later, based on what works forthem.
You know the other thing, too,for us that it's like okay, what
(26:25):
are some of the things thatpeople love in an office?
Well, spirit week.
You know the other thing, too,for us that it's like okay, what
are some of the things thatpeople love in an office?
Well, spirit Week.
You know we feed them a lot.
There's a lot of that thathappens in the mortgage industry
around certain times of theyear or the month.
You know it's like we reallyneed you to stay, so we're
bringing lunch in today, some ofthose things you know we've
worked on, but it does continueto be one of those things we
(26:47):
talk with our peers hey, we'rein the office three days a week.
What are you guys doing?
Oh, we're in the office twodays a week, but we're thinking
about going to three.
It's like let's stick togetheron that.
So so I think that we as anation are going to start seeing
more of the back in office, andwhat will be interesting to see
(27:08):
how they implement is thosethat let their employees move
away from the office proximity.
How they're going to handlethat, because you shouldn't be
limited to the geography foryour talent pool, but that is
what's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Yeah, I know there's a large organization that
announced that everyone hasbasically until January, I think
it is in order to move backwhere they can be in the office
if they've moved away, whicheven in the housing market and
the things that are going onright now.
That's not an easy ask, right?
I mean, sometimes it might bean easier ask than others.
You know the phrase likeworkplace flexibility, because
(27:41):
it was.
You know it's remote, it'shybrid and I feel like a lot of
people are moving towards.
It's flexible, meaning you knowyou're not going to only have to
do one day or only have to dotwo days as a hybrid piece, but
maybe we want you in five days aweek but you could come in at
nine after you do the kid dropoff or if you need to leave,
like there's just a little bitmore flexibility put into that.
(28:02):
How is that impacting yourapplicant flow?
We've had a few clients thatare hiring people that are in
office and they talk about itthrough the hiring process and
you know everything is set andthen kind of like day day before
start, well, I really need tobe out of the office two days a
week, and it's like thislast-minute kind of push to
(28:22):
renegotiate, which used to be,you know, a sign-on bonus or
something like that.
It's like a renegotiation ofwhich days are in the office.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Have you found anything like that?
How are you dealing withapplicants?
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Oh, have you been in my meetings lately?
Speaker 4 (28:35):
It feels like all the things.
Look, all the things that youguys are talking about are
exactly the challenges thatwe're facing.
You know, we have all of thoseupfront conversations during the
recruiting process, and one ofthe shifts that we just made is
that we really are one of ourbiggest focus.
Questions is why, specifically,are you interested in this
(28:56):
in-office hybrid job?
Right, what we want tounderstand from them is more of
why do you want to be in theoffice with us three days a week
, versus you know, is thecommute a problem for you?
Those were some of thequestions we used to ask.
We be in the office with usthree days a week, versus you
know, is the commute a problemfor you?
Those were some of thequestions we used to ask.
We're in the office three daysa week.
Will the commute be a problemfor you?
They're going to, of course,say no, it's not a problem,
(29:16):
because they're looking to getthe job.
But, to your point, day before,it's like well, I have a little
.
I feel like I have a littlebargaining power now that I'm
supposed to be there tomorrow.
Can we make some accommodations?
And so I think for us, ourfocus is more on trying to get
to the candidate pool that wantto be in the office.
It is a challenge.
It is a challenge, you know.
(29:37):
We have probably had hadhundreds of applicants for our
positions and many of them arenot within driving distance.
I mean we've got folks that arein the valley but not what I
would consider really a dailycomm driving distance.
I mean we've got folks that arein the valley but not what I
would consider really a dailycommutable distance, and so you
have to really understand likeIs an hour and a half in the car
each way something that worksfor you, for your life and for
(29:58):
your family and for your balance?
So those are all questions youvet out as you're working
through that hiring process.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
I was just talking to a client the other day and they
have company vehicles and therule around the company vehicle
is in Metro Phoenix, right, butwhat's considered Metro Phoenix
has expanded?
Right, but what's consideredmetro phoenix has expanded, and
so where one employee lives isactually further in mileage than
(30:24):
to prescott, oh wow, from theoffice.
But prescott doesn't qualifyfor the company vehicle but the
other one does because of howthings were labeled, right.
So just on the communication,on the culture, on the fairness,
on the flexibility, it kind ofall the ties together.
And it's just, you have to beso careful with implementing
those types of policies andthings because it can have
unintended consequences.
You know that maybe aren'texactly what you want and maybe
(30:45):
that would be a higher levelemployee, but years ago we've
been driving from Prescott.
Why would you do that?
But people drive that far everyday.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
I actually have to tell you we've had several
applicants from Prescott,prescott Valley area and in the
conversations with them they saywe aren't opposed to that
commute.
You know, and truly it'sactually not that far it's an
hour and 15 minutes.
It's probably just as far fromPrescott Valley to our office
than it is, you know, from theWest Valley to our office.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
So okay and they didn't have 100 days over 110.
No, which I think everyone'sbeen tired of, Kind of
continuing on workplaceflexibility and just staying
nimble.
Obviously, being in themortgage space, I think that's a
primary element to beingsuccessful in mortgage.
How have you been respondingand kind of giving assurances to
(31:33):
people to join the mortgageindustry and come in during a
time where you know it's notnecessarily seen as this great
industry?
Obviously, with a new homebuilder there's a lot of
advantages there.
You've been able to capitalizeon some talent, so it's really
worked out in your favor.
But how do you kind of respondto market changes and the ebbs
and flows of everything and keepthat culture and that spirit
(31:56):
really high, as they, you know,potentially are not hearing
great things on the news everyday about their space?
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Yeah, I think I feel really fortunate.
Definitely the mortgageindustry.
We have our peaks and valleys,but when you work for a home
builder, we're not immune to themarket but we are a little bit
more insulated, so I call themthe rolling hills.
So for us, that, to me, is oneof the greatest features of
being able to say to a team thatwants to stay in the mortgage
(32:24):
business we have someconsistency in our overall flow.
But really, when you see what'scoming in the market, we say
all the time okay, it's anelection year, and election
years tend to do those things.
They put people on the fence orthey have them wait and then in
the end they're going to get offthe fence.
Some of them will, some of themwon't, and so it's more a matter
(32:46):
for us of trying to anticipatewhat's coming and trying to lay
the bricks now, like, okay, weknow that after the election
there's going to be a portion ofpeople that will say I'm ready
to buy, I've been waiting, nowI'm ready to buy.
And then there's others thatare going to say, well, that was
exactly what I thought andthat's why I'm not going to buy.
It doesn't matter, people stillbuy homes, right, they get
(33:07):
married, they move, theirfamilies grow larger, their
families grow smaller, and sowhat we're just trying to do is
anticipate what else in themortgage market is going to
change, where we want to wrapour arms around our team and
have them feel like this was thechoice for them.
So a big piece for us is, youknow, as I mentioned a little
bit earlier, but the personaldevelopment as well.
(33:29):
So it's not just a job.
This is we're giving you skillsthat help you across the board.
So what?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
type of opportunities do they have from that personal
development standpoint?
Because you mentioned in thebeginning, you start with the
motivators, and so some peopleare motivated by gaining the
knowledge, some people want tolead a team, some people want to
create these really niceenvironments.
So everybody has kind of adifferent direction of why
they're excited to come to workevery day.
So what are some of thoseopportunities that you guys
(33:57):
provide?
Speaker 4 (33:58):
Yeah, I mean we.
Well, we started off and did asoft skills training with the
entire operations team, right?
So I should probably clarifyand say, when we have 75 people
that's on my side of the housethere's a sales organization as
well, that's probably equal orslightly larger.
So we did this soft skillstraining and then, as as part of
that, what we also did is workwith our teams to understand
(34:19):
like, where, where are youwanting to go?
We're building more departmentspretty much monthly, you know.
So it's like the thought ofokay, if you are looking to move
into this arena, what are thethings today, as we're building
them, that we need to startbuilding your core knowledge for
?
And a little bit of his specialprojects.
There are a lot of specialprojects.
(34:40):
So, when it's every day.
It's like hey, I have anotherspecial project.
You know, is anyone specialprojected out today?
But really spreading thespecial projects out because I
think we've done this and I,literally my team and I were
just talking.
You always know who your Aplayers are.
You know who your go to peopleare.
How do you start leveragingmore of your next level players
that have potential to be A andwin?
(35:03):
You know when do you do thosethings?
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Because you also have those people that really just
thrive on routine work and it'slike, okay, how do you make sure
you have those people wherethey're just keeping on doing
the things that they love to do?
And then the ones that want thespecial projects are the ones
that love to troubleshoot.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah, I think it's always important too, right?
The only way to grow in anorganization is not necessarily
to go up, right?
Are there lateral moves andspreading out their competencies
or starting to mentor others,without necessarily taking on
that management or thatleadership role?
Not everybody wants that andthat's okay, right?
Speaker 4 (35:38):
It's okay to know what you want and what you don't
want, and you can still havegrowth within an organization
it's funny that that youmentioned that when I was a
fairly young leader, I assumedthat everyone else also wanted
to climb the chain.
Right, that's, that was my goal.
I assumed that everyone wantedto, and I had someone that was
incredibly talented as a closer,for example, and she was really
(35:59):
good at it.
And one day I approached her Isaid I really need a closing
manager and I think you're gonnabe phenomenal at this.
And she looked at me with deerin the headlights, looks like I
don't know what you're talkingabout.
And I said well, I think youcould be a great closing manager
.
And she's like that was kind ofone of those moments in time
about learning.
All right, maybe not everyone ismotivated to grow up.
(36:20):
So when you mentioned lateralmoves, you know that has been a
really big piece for us.
We definitely are buildingdepartments and it's it's saying
hey, who has enough of abackground in that to be able to
move into that department?
Maybe they're the cornerstoneof the department because of the
depth of their experience.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yeah, and for our listeners.
There is a very big differencebetween, you know, lateral
growth and dry promotions.
Right Dry promotions are abuzzword out there right now.
You know, here's a new titleand some new responsibility, but
no wage increase and and thingslike that that are going in an
organization.
And so those lateral moves docome with you additional
(36:58):
compensation, additionalresponsibility, maybe,
additional exposure andopportunities, but not
necessarily people managementresponsibility, right, and so
how people can just grow indifferent ways.
But yeah, and it in my youngerself as well it took me a long
time to realize that I had to beokay with people who had a
different view of theirpotential and desires than I had
of their potential and desires.
(37:19):
And um, and that was because Iwas so driven Like it was very
difficult for me to grasp thatthat's not what they wanted.
And um, one of my, my formercolleagues and I are talking
about working together on aproject again and um have both
kind of reset what thosepriorities are for us.
And I told her I said mybiggest concern so her biggest
concern is about the flexibilitythat she needs.
(37:40):
And I said, well, my biggestconcern is you and I are going
to get a room and work on aproject and we're not going to
afford each other theflexibility because we're going
to feed off of each other toomuch, and we both just started
laughing because we were comingat it completely caring about
the other one and what the otherone needed out of the
relationship.
But it was, you know, obviouslywell intended.
So, thinking of your youngerself, we're going to go back a
(38:02):
little further than a youngerleader.
What would you tell 16 year oldJen today as far as advice to
achieve whatever her dreams andaspirations were for her career?
Speaker 4 (38:17):
um Well, funny story first, and then I'm going to
answer that so funny story.
First I was digging backthrough I had an old high school
yearbook, was going through itwith my kids and we were
laughing at you know pictures.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
Late 80s, early 90s, and in my senior high school
picture I wore by the way, I'mwearing a business suit today.
Right, so I wore a suit jacketas a senior in high school.
Not a surprise, but what Iwould have probably told myself
back then is it's okay to getsome things wrong, because that
(38:48):
is something that I havestruggled with.
Is it making a mistake, lettingsomeone down, letting myself
down?
Those kinds of things actuallyare what have gotten me where I
am today, and not always have Ibeen accepting of the mistakes
that have been made or beingwrong about something, and I
really feel like if I could havejust told myself these are
(39:10):
going to happen and it will beokay, I don't know, maybe things
would have been a little easierfor me along the way that was
interesting.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Just this morning I was with a client and they have
a role.
That was a little the personstruggling in this role, and so
they're probably going to bringin a person above the role.
And it's like, how do I tellthis person that this is a good
thing for them as opposed to abad thing?
And that was where I was likeokay, think back through your
career.
Where did that happen to?
Because it happens to all of usat some level or another and
(39:40):
it's hard to take.
But if you can kind of likeshow that you grew from
something like that and thatthis is really an opportunity,
not a threat for this personbecause we're bringing in this
person, they describe thisperson as a potential unicorn.
I was like you have thisopportunity to learn from this
person and then think about ayear from now where you'll be,
versus you keep banging yourhead against the same wall for
(40:02):
the next 12 months.
What's that going to do to you?
Speaker 4 (40:05):
too.
I love that you said you havethe potential to learn from this
person, right?
Because I do think that, inparticular as younger leaders,
that is one of the things likewe think we want to learn but we
don't recognize all of theopportunities to do that, and
partly because maybe we feelthreatened, Maybe we feel
insecure, Maybe it's like, well,this person's you know, I'm
(40:25):
never going to have a chance tomove up if they're there.
And so I do think that's one ofthe things that's the most
important is to take thoseopportunities and say, hey, you
know what?
I'm going to learn, everythingI can learn, because there will
be some other opportunity thatis going to come available for
me.
I had a manager once and again.
Everything I've learned aboutleadership has been through the
managers I've loved and notloved.
(40:46):
So I had a leader once thatsaid to me you know if I'm not,
he said I'm here to teach youeverything I know, because if I
don't do that, then when there'san opportunity for me to grow,
I won't be able to move up, Iwon't be able to move into that
role, and so that was veryeyeopening for me to say I
(41:07):
actually need to be a sharer ofmy knowledge and not a hoarder
of my knowledge.
That will help me move into thenext role.
I need to be available for.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Yeah, teach and delegate your way out of a job,
right, and because that's theonly way you're going to have
ready-made successors who are,you know, able to sit there and
also like never being thesmartest person in the room,
right, like A how boring of aroom is that?
And you know so.
Like you, really you want tohave people who are around you
who are smarter, where, ifsomebody from the outside walks
in, they shouldn't be able totell who the leader is?
(41:36):
Right, because everybody'scollaborating, everybody's
challenging, having productiveconflict, you know, and sitting
around the room and not justshaking their head at what one
person says right, right, allright.
Well, I appreciate you beingwith us today and being on the
confidence curve with us.
I think that our listeners aredefinitely going to gain a ton
(41:59):
of insights If they want tofollow up with you and connect.
How would they do so?
Speaker 4 (42:03):
I love that and no pun, right.
Tripoint Connect.
Actually, I am on LinkedIn andso I would love I am a big
connector I would love to beconnected on LinkedIn.
You know we are perpetuallyhiring right.
We are a growing organization.
We have a lot of opportunities.
You know you can visit ourtripointhomescom website, which
is where our careers are posted.
(42:25):
But definitely the LinkedIn isgoing to be the best place and I
think that you guys will havesome access.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
Yeah, when we share everything out, we'll definitely
make sure to tag you in that sothat people can connect with
you, and I can definitely vouchJen is good at connecting people
.
If anyone in her network thatyou need a referral to or
anything like that, she isfabulous at following up with
that.
Well, rick and I, jen, we thankyou for being here today.
Thank you to all of ourlisteners for joining Confidence
Curve.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Thanks for tuning in to Confidence Curve.
We hope today's episode leftyou inspired and ready to
embrace your journey confidently.
Remember whether you're leadinga team, growing your business
or pursuing personal growth,each step forward builds your
curve.
If you enjoyed today'sconversation, don't forget to
subscribe, share and leave us areview For more insights and
resources.
Visit us at apexgtscom.
(43:15):
Until next time, keep climbingthe curve.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Confidence Curvewith Ashley and Rick Bowers,
where personal and professionaljourneys define the art of
scaling with confidence.
Whether you're a businessleader in an avenue of change or
someone seeking personal growth, this podcast offers insights
and actionable advice to helpyou thrive.
Now let's dive into today'sconversation with our incredible
(00:51):
guest.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Welcome to the Confidence Curve.
Thank you for being here, jen.
So Rick and I are here todaywith Jen Folk of TriPoint
Connect, and Jen and I have hadthe opportunity to work together
in the past for a few years andwe've known each other for a
while, and so I'm just so happythat you're here to join us
today.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Well, thank you so much.
I am really appreciative of theinvite to join you and looking
forward to the things that we wewere looking to talk about
Awesome.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Well, we're gonna jump right in.
And if you could tell us alittle bit about you and about
TriPoint and what have you beenup to on this new journey?
Oh gosh.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Well, let's see, I've been in the mortgage business
for more than 20 years and so inthat time I've done a few
things, you know, and it's beena great journey.
It's been one of those thingsthat nobody ever actually
chooses to join the mortgagebusiness.
Nobody wakes up one day andsays you know what?
I think I want to be a mortgageprofessional, so a lot of us
just land there and then, as yougo through the journey, the
(01:54):
highs and the lows, you findyourself in different positions.
So that's been a big piece ofmy journey has been different
parts of the mortgage operationsside in particular, and in the
last year I've actually been afounding member I would say
founding in the sense ofTriPoint Connect as a startup
organization, and I've spent thelast year growing and so I'm
kind of excited.
There's a lot of things you andI did in our past lives
together and some of that comesinto the new organization I've
(02:18):
been with.
But TriPoint Connect is thewholly owned mortgage company
that serves TriPoint Homes,which is a national builder, and
we actually do have a presencehere in the local Phoenix market
.
So we've built our fulfillmentoperations team here locally and
that's a big piece of mypassion is building the team.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
And you know, just talking to you a couple
different times over the lastyear or so and the growth that
you've experienced.
So can you kind of talk aboutthat startup and you know
employee number one versus whereyou are today within TriPoint
and maybe share some lessonslearned?
Obviously, we both have a bighistory in employee development
and hiring and so it's alwaysgreat to hear what best
practices have you beenimplementing as you've been
(02:59):
growing that team and creatingculture inside TriPoint.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Yeah, it's funny, I was employee number one, in the
sense of the organization wasjust fully starting and I joined
in October of last year.
So just last week I celebratedmy one-year anniversary and you
know we joke around a little bitabout it because we thought one
year, you know, it's going tobe forever, it's going to take a
long time, and you blink andthen the year is over.
(03:23):
So you know, we started inOctober of last year.
I added a handful of peoplebefore the end of last year, but
we really focused on creatingour core team, starting in
January, and in the time sincewe've added I think I'm up to 75
team members as of now.
It's exciting.
You know it doesn't sound likea lot, but when you're trying to
(03:44):
add them in rapid successionand you're hiring in batches,
you've got 10 new hires everyMonday and it's a flurry of
activity.
It's exciting Building astartup.
For some people they don'tunderstand the depth of what
you're putting into it, but I'veenjoyed.
Really.
It's a combination of adding tothe team and a combination of
(04:07):
developing the business at thesame time.
So you have to be prepared forthe pace of that and you blink
and a year is gone already.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, I mean lessons learned, right, obviously, your
history with assessments and thecoaching and stuff that you do
with people.
I mean that's rapid, rapidgrowth and having to almost hire
in those cohorts, as youmentioned.
You know, 10 new peoplestarting on Monday.
I'm sure you have some seriousquestions on that for her.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, I was just thinking too.
I was employee number one withTTI back in 1988.
So when TTI moved to Arizona,it was just father-son that were
the founders and that was thefirst one that they hired, going
part-time at ASU and kind ofdoing a little bit of everything
.
So you kind of get that youunderstand the business from a
whole different level whenyou're the first person there,
(04:58):
and so it's exciting from thatstandpoint.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I think it's fun that you mentioned being employee
number one and wearing many hats, and that is kind of the key
right.
When you're employee number oneor five or in your you're in
that first dozen, you arewearing a lot of hats at that
point because everything hasn'tbeen fully developed.
There's not a department tohandle that.
You are the department.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah and I think that the tricky part then is to
understand when to take the hatoff, because you're wearing so
many hats for so long, but nowyou're bringing in all of these
people and you're bringing in 10people a week and it's like,
all right, I need to get rid ofthis hat.
It's like who can I delegate to?
And that's one of the thingsthat I find a lot with with
clients is that they strugglewith the delegation because they
(05:38):
don't always have the trustlevels, and so it's like how do
you build the trust or do youdelegate?
Which comes first, the chickenor the egg?
Speaker 4 (05:44):
in that situation, I feel like, did you just look in
my notebook?
I carry this notebook with meand these are things that I
constantly am like exploring andreminding myself and saying,
okay, am I doing the right thing?
Am I empowering my team?
Am I entrusting you knowsomething to be done?
Have I given them a goodpicture of what needs to be done
?
So I just literally, when yousaid that I'm going to show you
(06:06):
the page it's written on, all ofthose things are all written on
the same page.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
That's amazing, you know.
Obviously we use the stages ofgrowth model.
We used it, you know, in ourpast life together and we use it
inside Apex and you know stageone is one to ten employees and
you know already being up to 75employees.
That's looking at a stage fivecompany.
It's getting really large andhaving time in each of those
stages is what helps you build aculture and sustain operations
(06:32):
and have that foundation andthat infrastructure.
So talk to us a little bitabout going from stage one to
stage five in 12 months.
Obviously, you have the supportof a large organization behind
you too, but you really werespearheading all that here and
how did you create a culturethat could handle that type of
rapid?
Speaker 4 (06:51):
growth.
You know, I think we're prettyfortunate because we do have a
fantastic parent organizationthat has a lot of infrastructure
already, you know, embedded init right, and so we were able to
lean heavily on a lot of that.
But also on top of it, I wasfortunate enough to staff my
core leadership team with somepeople that I have some history
with and I think there's somevalue in you're able to ramp up
(07:14):
and you hit the ground running alittle bit faster and people
you have those relationshipswith you know the trust and the
proving yourself all over again.
That timeline is shorter, so Ithink that would probably be one
thing I would point to whichhelped me.
You know, I staffed my coreleadership team in January and
then they also were able tobring in folks that they had
(07:34):
from their past.
I know that's I would say that'sprobably also a byproduct of
the market we're in right now.
You know I don't take forgranted that the mortgage
industry we have our highs, wehave our lows and it's been one
of the longer lows.
So we've been really fortunateto be able to grab the right
people at the right point intime as far as trying to keep
them engaged in culture andthose things.
(07:56):
That's a daily effort for us.
I mean it's weekly.
There's a lot of things we'restill learning and working on
together, and collaboration is areally big piece of that for us
.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
That's one of the things that I talk a lot with
clients about is thattransparency and the
communication aspects of it, andthat's a big piece of trust,
which is when you think aboutthe five dysfunctions of a team.
Trust is kind of that baseline.
It's like how do you build thetrust and the transparency, the
being comfortable having thoseconversations when you bring in
people that you've worked within the past?
(08:30):
You kind of hit the groundrunning with those people, but
then how do you build that trustwith the people that you just
hired and just met?
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I'm going to tell you that is a challenge we're
continuing to work on.
You know that is definitelywe've had a lot of conversations
because we all see the vision.
At our level right, we're highup and we see the vision and
we've bought into it and we'reworking on it and we want to
think that we're able to cascadethe information down and we're
doing it regularly.
But you can take any survey,any employee survey, and I don't
(08:59):
it doesn't matter whatorganization you're in.
Probably the number one pieceof feedback you're gonna see is
we need more communication.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah, I'm always like what does it mean?
Yeah, right, and like, please,if you're gonna say
communication, define it for me.
What specifically are youlooking for?
Because it can mean multiplethings to one person, much less
if you're surveying 100 peopleor 300 people or 500 people,
you're starting to multiply thatcomplexity of figuring out what
is communication, meet and whattype of communication, what
(09:26):
frequency of communication.
We talk a lot about push-pullright, and how can we push out
the communication three timesbut then turn it into something
that every employee can pull andand they have access to, so
that we can flip thataccountability of keeping
informed to the employee versusthe management team constantly
having to make sure, like, didevery single person here
(09:46):
understand and are they able toact on whatever it is that we
were trying to communicate?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, and then there's the nonverbal
communication.
I mean, you and I are bothfamous for that is, our teams
would ask us a question and theywould just watch our faces they
didn't even really need to hearthe answer because they would
get that and so we would callthat facial comments as opposed
to expressions, they weren'talways positive.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
I think I've seen that once or twice.
We knew exactly how Ashleywould respond to something, and
you'd look and you'd go yep.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah, usually when facial comments are before words
come out, it's not a positivereaction.
That's the hard thing.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
There are a ton of books just on learning to read
body language and it's like howare you?
They're like you twistedsideways, are you straight?
Are your hands crossed?
Speaker 4 (10:32):
I mean there's just so many things that can indicate
how the conversation is goingto go and that's a huge part of
communication that people don'tthink about well, and I think
one of the biggest challenges is, like, for us, we're actually
in an office three days a weekand so we have the ability to
interact personally, right, butwhen you're dealing with we have
some folks that are remote, andso when you're dealing with
(10:53):
that remote side of things, thecommunication you're pushing out
, you don't always know how theytook it and you can't always
tell.
You know the body language,because cameras are off or those
types of things, things, and sothose are the challenges you
continue to face when you'retrying to get the whole team on
board and understand, have themunderstand where you're going
with things.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, the famous, like they yelled at me like, did
you, did you talk to the person?
Like, well, no, they sent me anemail.
Okay, well, was it in all caps?
Well, no, but just based on thetone.
Like I'm like, was there audiowith that email, or are we just
associating?
Right, but it's hard, and thenwe find ourselves doing it too.
(11:30):
We have to check ourselves.
Even though we can teach thatand coach that with the people
who work with us, we have to.
Then also, how did we take anemail?
How did we understand?
I feel like this was mymidnight conversation with our
teenager last night about hiswork environment right now.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Midnight conversations are never good, no
.
So, growing up in theassessment world with TTI and
kind of understanding from theground up how assessments work
and how important it is to kindof get that true understanding
of an individual, what are someof the ways that you utilize to
kind of find the uniqueness inthe different individuals?
(12:05):
So that you utilize to kind offind the uniqueness in the
different individuals and sothat you can do the things like
delegate and which roles arethey going to be most successful
in?
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Yeah, I mean we always start with kind of what
are their motivators, whatexcites them?
Because if you can understandreally where they want to go,
like why they're coming in, whythey do what they do, then you
can think about how you're goingto get them where you need them
to be.
And so a lot of our leadership,their interactions with their
(12:32):
team members, are reallyunderstanding like, why are you
doing what you do?
We do a lot.
Obviously, we have a skill setthat we have to have.
So we start there and weunderstand what skills they have
.
But on top of that, it'simportant to us that they feel
like they have a developmentpath and so that development
could be either personal orprofessional.
And so we've done a few things.
We're really trying toencourage our team, saying hey,
(12:53):
you know what, we're here foryou, but we want you to take
these skills and we want totranscend the day-to-day of your
job and we want to help improve, for example, relationships at
home and with your teenagers andthe folks that you know that
you're dealing with outside ofhere.
So for us we start with how,what, what motivates the person?
Like, how do we get them wherethey're at today?
Where do they want to go, and?
(13:13):
And what do we play into that?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
you know, it's just so interesting when you talk
about that motivation and thedriving and that fit right and
just like kind of the energizersright.
So how do you get them wherethey?
Just they want to be in it andat it all the time and I know
obviously in our work togetherit's really hard drive going
really fast.
You know, at a point we were,you know, trying to ready a
company for an IPO.
(13:38):
During your journey and thoserapid growth moments, the
startup moments, obviouslythere's a lot of lessons learned
and sometimes when we're in it,they aren't really lessons that
we want to learn right at thatmoment or we're not seeing the
value or the benefit that that'sgoing to play out later.
It's like, looking back, whatare some of those lessons
learned that maybe while youwere experiencing, you're like
(13:59):
what am I doing or why is thishappening?
But now there's some of thebiggest lessons that have really
helped you propel your career.
And my follow-up to that wouldbe you know, what advice would
you give that emerging leaderwho's maybe going through some
of those lessons right now tokeep pushing through?
Speaker 4 (14:13):
You know, I think, gosh, where can I start?
So many lessons learned.
I really think that the mainone is, for me, has been you
know, don't it's?
We all want to.
We want to be successful, right, and we want to take what we're
doing and we want it to bemagnified and we want people to
(14:35):
see that we've done these things.
But what's most important is totake what you're doing and to
stay focused on what you cancontrol, right, what is within
your control.
And we oftentimes startspiraling because there are
things that are outside of whatwe're working on and we think
that if we can just bring thisback in and work on it and
control it in our space, thenthat's going to change what
we're working on.
(14:56):
And so this is a personal lifelesson.
I'll tell you what my motherhas been telling me my whole
entire life.
You know what you cannot workon.
You cannot control everything.
You need to worry about what iswithin your control, and so I I
probably practice that on adaily basis.
But you know, the lessons youlearn are just, honestly, you,
you need to stay focused in whatis in this sphere today and
(15:20):
then you can move to what comesnext.
I mean, I'm a big pictureperson and I'm always looking so
far in advance and my problemthere is that I'm looking so far
in advance, I'm not alwaysseeing like what's right here
and what is today and what haveI just done yesterday, and and
you can't forget those thingsbecause that's taking you where
you need to go for the next yearyeah, that kind of goes back to
(15:41):
the having the right people inthe organization, but are they
in the right seat within theorganization?
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Can you, from a big picture standpoint, like break
it down into the compartmentswhere everybody kind of fits
into these different places?
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I love that you just mentioned that, because you know
, as we staffed our team, wesaid, okay, these are the people
we need today in these seats.
But you know what who we needtoday and who we need six months
from now, and what seats havechanged.
And so we are constantlyreevaluating and we're saying,
all right, well, we brought thisperson in and they've been in
the seat, but now we have thisgrowing need for this other area
(16:14):
and is there a reshuffle?
And that, for me, is one area.
I do have to be careful,because I'm a very
love-to-move-quick.
Put me in something new.
I get excited by it.
Some people need morecontinuity and they want to stay
in a seat a little bit longerand, as a startup, you may need
them to move faster.
So, are they in the right seats?
Do you have the right people?
It's constant.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
And sometimes that goes back to being able to
utilize the assessments becauseyou can see, from a behavior
standpoint, are they verydynamic when it comes to pace?
Are they steady when it comesto this?
Are they direct when it comesto pace or they study when it
comes to this, or they directwhen it comes to problems?
Are they more reflective?
And so you kind of get anunderstanding of how they prefer
to do what they do, which tiesinto the why they're getting out
of bed every morning and comingto work, and so those two
simple things tell you so muchabout the organ or about the
(17:01):
individual and how they fit inthe organization it's not you
talk about.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
You know control right, and I think a lot of us
that are really, you know,driven and, and you know, trying
to achieve things.
Um, ultimately, like, we liketo win, and I always think, like
, does anyone not like to?
win like I don't know anyonethat wakes up and like how do I
lose today, right, um, and in,you know, just in that
conversation?
I think sometimes we try tocontrol information and the
(17:27):
dissemination of information outof fear that, well, if people
know this or you know, if I haveto talk about this, like maybe
that'll redirect them or itmight deflate them.
How do you decide whatinformation and what really you
know, vulnerable, candidinformation, you share when
you're trying to coach peopletoward, towards that win?
Because I always feel like ifsomeone has a scorecard in front
(17:48):
of them, they can always knowwhere am I at and having that
information, even if it's notgreat information is much more
kind.
Someone used to work with usedto always say clear is kind and
and it really is, because peoplewant to know how am I scoring
up if I, if I don't know if I'mwinning, like how do I know when
(18:08):
I've won right, like how do Iever get that satisfaction?
So how do you determine whatkind of information to
disseminate?
Speaker 4 (18:16):
yeah, I'm probably more on the side of an overshare
category, right?
I really, because I am one ofthose people that wants to know
myself.
I tend to want to share and bevery clear and be very candid
and transparent.
Where I draw the line is, againif it's not something that they
have any control over andthey're not going to be able to
(18:38):
influence the outcome of it andit's just going to create
conflict for them or it's goingto create a problem where they
are struggling, that's somethingI won't necessarily share and
through my career, obviouslyI've had to be a holder of
information strategic decisionsthat mortgage companies are
(18:58):
making, we're going to closethis particular market, and so
knowing that information inadvance and then maybe having to
not share it because you can't,you kind of create this place
where you say, okay, if I had toknow that information myself in
advance and it was going totear me up, is that the kind of
information I should be sharingwith people?
And so for me, that's where I'vekind of created the
(19:21):
differentiator.
Sometimes I'll share theinformation with them and I'll
say to them I actually don'thave an answer for this right
now.
I want you to know about itbecause it's something that's
coming at us or it's somethingwe're working on, but I don't
have an answer for you.
And again, you have to kind ofcreate the line where you say,
if I give this information tothem and I don't have an answer,
is that also going to createconflict that I then have to
(19:42):
manage?
And if I can't manage throughthat, then I just choose not to
pass it on until I have moreinformation for them.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Do you ever give permission for them to ask you
questions, or excuse me toquestion you?
Speaker 4 (19:55):
That is such a great question.
Yes, and, by the way, I lovethat you mentioned the
assessments, because that issomething that has been near and
dear to our heart.
That is a part of ourorganization, as well as
understanding the differentstyles, characteristics what
drives people.
But I had a recent examplewhere one of my leaders and I
have vastly different styles andmy expectation is to be
(20:19):
questioned If someone doesn'tagree.
I want you to challenge me, butbased on their style.
That's not how they operateright.
And so we kind of kept goingback and forth and I just in my
mind kept saying, why are wehere?
And so we really sat down, wehad one of those very, very raw,
(20:41):
candid conversations with oneanother and ultimately I said I
don't want you to be a yesperson, I want you to ask.
And then it became the I thinkI need to tell everyone this so
you know, those are the momentswhere you, where you, you define
and go.
Okay, I assume you would haveknown that, based on how I think
I operate, but you didn't knowthat.
(21:02):
So now I need to change how Ioperate.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I mean you just see the light bulbs when you're
talking to a leader and have yougiven them permission to ask
the question or to question you,because everything that comes
out of your mouth shouldn't justbe taken for granted.
I mean when you really start toquestion things and have a
constructive conversation,that's where the magic actually
happens with the team.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Or even the expectation to question right,
not just even permission, Ithink you know, and even on
certain procedures and thingslike that, you know looking at
it and saying, okay, hey, you'vebeen following this procedure.
Is there a piece of the processthat once a month you're saying
, hey, does this process stillwork right?
Is there anything broken inthis?
Could this be improved in anyway and actually make a piece of
(21:42):
the process?
Questioning the process or, youknow, questioning the
individuals and things like that, just in the spirit of always
moving the organization alongand doing the right thing by
each other and, you know,building that culture.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
I think one of the things that we've learned
through our growth has been thatI'm certainly not afraid to
make any decisions.
And I'll make decisions.
I'll make them very quickly.
Sometimes I'll make decisions,I'll make them very quickly.
Sometimes I'll make decisionsone after another, all related
to the same topic, and sometimesthat causes my team's head to
spin a little bit.
But what we also have starteddoing is sitting down and saying
like, okay, well, we made thatdecision at that point in time
(22:18):
because that was what we wereworking with.
But as we've evolved, as we'vegrown, is that still where we
need to be?
And you know, we again I saycollaboration, that's been a
really big word in ourorganization.
And what we're, is that stillwhere we need to be?
And you know, we again I saycollaboration, that's been a
really big word in ourorganization.
And what we're building issaying, hey, we want to
collaborate on how we solve.
I am going to tell you,collaboration is phenomenal, but
you can't make all yourdecisions by committee, right?
(22:40):
I think that would probably bethe one thing you know.
We started off and I wanted allof my teammates to have the
ability to help build.
And no pun intended, right, wework for a builder, but we
wanted to build something reallyexciting.
And then what we found is youget 10 people in a room.
They have 10 fabulous ideas.
You walk out and say, well,we're going to think about that.
And you come back and you stillhaven't made a decision.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, so it's kind of one of the things that you know
you, you go okay, this is oneof the things we want as a
founding operating principle howwe operate, but we can't let
that be how all the decisionsget made, right.
Yeah, I mean, people reallyultimately just want to be heard
, like they have the opportunityto put their ideas out there.
They have the opportunity tokind of be part of the
(23:21):
discussion.
Whether their ideas is acceptedor not isn't as big a deal as
actually the fact that they gotto talk and put the idea out
there.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, I mean, I think , being transparent about it too
, like, hey, I'm looking forinput and information on this,
but ultimately, I'm going to goback and I'm going to consider
all things and I'm going to makea decision.
Or, you know, three of us aregoing to go back and we're going
to come back to you with adecision.
Or like, guys, this is a reallyopen discussion and let's work
at it until we get to a decisiontoday.
But we're going to get to adecision today, right?
(23:50):
I'm just kind of clarifying, isit what type of decision
process is going to happen?
We have a client right now andthey use the saying quite a bit.
We need to make the best rightdecision for right now.
I love that right, becausethere could be three or four
right decisions.
So, what's the best rightdecision?
And it's for right now, right?
So, yeah, it's prettyinteresting.
So what about, uh, workplaceflexibility?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
it kind of goes into some of the things that you've
been working on yeah, I thinkthat our world has changed over
the last four years with covetand moving from that majority of
organizations were in theoffice to going outside, with
having to be remote, and thenwhen is the right time to come
back in?
I think, based on the industrythat you're in, you have a lot
(24:37):
of people in the office, Iunderstand.
Was there a transition for that?
Only being a year old, you kindof just started from that
direction, or was there anyissue from a culture standpoint?
Speaker 4 (24:49):
oh gosh, this is our every week management topic, so
I'm so glad we're talking aboutthis.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Uh well, you and every other company out there,
by the way.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
I really am and and we do look at the news we're
like look at what other majororganization out there is now
calling people back?
Um, you know, we've workedreally hard and so we did do it
from day one because we believethat, as you're building this
organization and we are allbrand new, all of us it was
important for us to be in persontogether and there's a lot of
value in that.
But we are continuing to.
(25:20):
I'm going to say we're going tocontinue to fight the tide,
because people have said well,we've been successful working
from home, why should we come tothe office?
And so you know we're looking,we look at ways that they want
to come, like again, whatmotivates you?
So we have some people thathave said you know, I enjoy
working from home, but I've beenwearing pajamas for three years
(25:41):
and I look forward to gettingdressed on Monday, tuesday,
wednesday.
We do work in the office threedays a week.
It's been a challenge.
I'm not I'm really not going tolie like commuting people that
haven't commuted in a long time,and maybe some of them have
never actually commuted,depending on what their role was
, so encouraging them.
We do offer flex schedules.
So it's like look, if you, ifyou leave your house at a
(26:03):
certain time and you can gethere 15 minutes faster and you
want to come in earlier, weallow that.
We run, you know, a long shiftand so people can it's not an
entirely like pick your schedulecome in whenever you want, but
you know we run a shift thatlets them come in earlier or
later, based on what works forthem.
You know the other thing, too,for us that it's like okay, what
(26:25):
are some of the things thatpeople love in an office?
Well, spirit week.
You know the other thing, too,for us that it's like okay, what
are some of the things thatpeople love in an office?
Well, spirit Week.
You know we feed them a lot.
There's a lot of that thathappens in the mortgage industry
around certain times of theyear or the month.
You know it's like we reallyneed you to stay, so we're
bringing lunch in today, some ofthose things you know we've
worked on, but it does continueto be one of those things we
(26:47):
talk with our peers hey, we'rein the office three days a week.
What are you guys doing?
Oh, we're in the office twodays a week, but we're thinking
about going to three.
It's like let's stick togetheron that.
So so I think that we as anation are going to start seeing
more of the back in office, andwhat will be interesting to see
(27:08):
how they implement is thosethat let their employees move
away from the office proximity.
How they're going to handlethat, because you shouldn't be
limited to the geography foryour talent pool, but that is
what's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Yeah, I know there's a large organization that
announced that everyone hasbasically until January, I think
it is in order to move backwhere they can be in the office
if they've moved away, whicheven in the housing market and
the things that are going onright now.
That's not an easy ask, right?
I mean, sometimes it might bean easier ask than others.
You know the phrase likeworkplace flexibility, because
(27:41):
it was.
You know it's remote, it'shybrid and I feel like a lot of
people are moving towards.
It's flexible, meaning you knowyou're not going to only have to
do one day or only have to dotwo days as a hybrid piece, but
maybe we want you in five days aweek but you could come in at
nine after you do the kid dropoff or if you need to leave,
like there's just a little bitmore flexibility put into that.
(28:02):
How is that impacting yourapplicant flow?
We've had a few clients thatare hiring people that are in
office and they talk about itthrough the hiring process and
you know everything is set andthen kind of like day day before
start, well, I really need tobe out of the office two days a
week, and it's like thislast-minute kind of push to
(28:22):
renegotiate, which used to be,you know, a sign-on bonus or
something like that.
It's like a renegotiation ofwhich days are in the office.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Have you found anything like that?
How are you dealing withapplicants?
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Oh, have you been in my meetings lately?
Speaker 4 (28:35):
It feels like all the things.
Look, all the things that youguys are talking about are
exactly the challenges thatwe're facing.
You know, we have all of thoseupfront conversations during the
recruiting process, and one ofthe shifts that we just made is
that we really are one of ourbiggest focus.
Questions is why, specifically,are you interested in this
(28:56):
in-office hybrid job?
Right, what we want tounderstand from them is more of
why do you want to be in theoffice with us three days a week
, versus you know, is thecommute a problem for you?
Those were some of thequestions we used to ask.
We be in the office with usthree days a week, versus you
know, is the commute a problemfor you?
Those were some of thequestions we used to ask.
We're in the office three daysa week.
Will the commute be a problemfor you?
They're going to, of course,say no, it's not a problem,
(29:16):
because they're looking to getthe job.
But, to your point, day before,it's like well, I have a little
.
I feel like I have a littlebargaining power now that I'm
supposed to be there tomorrow.
Can we make some accommodations?
And so I think for us, ourfocus is more on trying to get
to the candidate pool that wantto be in the office.
It is a challenge.
It is a challenge, you know.
(29:37):
We have probably had hadhundreds of applicants for our
positions and many of them arenot within driving distance.
I mean we've got folks that arein the valley but not what I
would consider really a dailycomm driving distance.
I mean we've got folks that arein the valley but not what I
would consider really a dailycommutable distance, and so you
have to really understand likeIs an hour and a half in the car
each way something that worksfor you, for your life and for
(29:58):
your family and for your balance?
So those are all questions youvet out as you're working
through that hiring process.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
I was just talking to a client the other day and they
have company vehicles and therule around the company vehicle
is in Metro Phoenix, right, butwhat's considered Metro Phoenix
has expanded?
Right, but what's consideredmetro phoenix has expanded, and
so where one employee lives isactually further in mileage than
(30:24):
to prescott, oh wow, from theoffice.
But prescott doesn't qualifyfor the company vehicle but the
other one does because of howthings were labeled, right.
So just on the communication,on the culture, on the fairness,
on the flexibility, it kind ofall the ties together.
And it's just, you have to beso careful with implementing
those types of policies andthings because it can have
unintended consequences.
You know that maybe aren'texactly what you want and maybe
(30:45):
that would be a higher levelemployee, but years ago we've
been driving from Prescott.
Why would you do that?
But people drive that far everyday.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
I actually have to tell you we've had several
applicants from Prescott,prescott Valley area and in the
conversations with them they saywe aren't opposed to that
commute.
You know, and truly it'sactually not that far it's an
hour and 15 minutes.
It's probably just as far fromPrescott Valley to our office
than it is, you know, from theWest Valley to our office.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
So okay and they didn't have 100 days over 110.
No, which I think everyone'sbeen tired of, Kind of
continuing on workplaceflexibility and just staying
nimble.
Obviously, being in themortgage space, I think that's a
primary element to beingsuccessful in mortgage.
How have you been respondingand kind of giving assurances to
(31:33):
people to join the mortgageindustry and come in during a
time where you know it's notnecessarily seen as this great
industry?
Obviously, with a new homebuilder there's a lot of
advantages there.
You've been able to capitalizeon some talent, so it's really
worked out in your favor.
But how do you kind of respondto market changes and the ebbs
and flows of everything and keepthat culture and that spirit
(31:56):
really high, as they, you know,potentially are not hearing
great things on the news everyday about their space?
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Yeah, I think I feel really fortunate.
Definitely the mortgageindustry.
We have our peaks and valleys,but when you work for a home
builder, we're not immune to themarket but we are a little bit
more insulated, so I call themthe rolling hills.
So for us, that, to me, is oneof the greatest features of
being able to say to a team thatwants to stay in the mortgage
(32:24):
business we have someconsistency in our overall flow.
But really, when you see what'scoming in the market, we say
all the time okay, it's anelection year, and election
years tend to do those things.
They put people on the fence orthey have them wait and then in
the end they're going to get offthe fence.
Some of them will, some of themwon't, and so it's more a matter
(32:46):
for us of trying to anticipatewhat's coming and trying to lay
the bricks now, like, okay, weknow that after the election
there's going to be a portion ofpeople that will say I'm ready
to buy, I've been waiting, nowI'm ready to buy.
And then there's others thatare going to say, well, that was
exactly what I thought andthat's why I'm not going to buy.
It doesn't matter, people stillbuy homes, right, they get
(33:07):
married, they move, theirfamilies grow larger, their
families grow smaller, and sowhat we're just trying to do is
anticipate what else in themortgage market is going to
change, where we want to wrapour arms around our team and
have them feel like this was thechoice for them.
So a big piece for us is, youknow, as I mentioned a little
bit earlier, but the personaldevelopment as well.
(33:29):
So it's not just a job.
This is we're giving you skillsthat help you across the board.
So what?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
type of opportunities do they have from that personal
development standpoint?
Because you mentioned in thebeginning, you start with the
motivators, and so some peopleare motivated by gaining the
knowledge, some people want tolead a team, some people want to
create these really niceenvironments.
So everybody has kind of adifferent direction of why
they're excited to come to workevery day.
So what are some of thoseopportunities that you guys
(33:57):
provide?
Speaker 4 (33:58):
Yeah, I mean we.
Well, we started off and did asoft skills training with the
entire operations team, right?
So I should probably clarifyand say, when we have 75 people
that's on my side of the housethere's a sales organization as
well, that's probably equal orslightly larger.
So we did this soft skillstraining and then, as as part of
that, what we also did is workwith our teams to understand
(34:19):
like, where, where are youwanting to go?
We're building more departmentspretty much monthly, you know.
So it's like the thought ofokay, if you are looking to move
into this arena, what are thethings today, as we're building
them, that we need to startbuilding your core knowledge for
?
And a little bit of his specialprojects.
There are a lot of specialprojects.
(34:40):
So, when it's every day.
It's like hey, I have anotherspecial project.
You know, is anyone specialprojected out today?
But really spreading thespecial projects out because I
think we've done this and I,literally my team and I were
just talking.
You always know who your Aplayers are.
You know who your go to peopleare.
How do you start leveragingmore of your next level players
that have potential to be A andwin?
(35:03):
You know when do you do thosethings?
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Because you also have those people that really just
thrive on routine work and it'slike, okay, how do you make sure
you have those people wherethey're just keeping on doing
the things that they love to do?
And then the ones that want thespecial projects are the ones
that love to troubleshoot.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah, I think it's always important too, right?
The only way to grow in anorganization is not necessarily
to go up, right?
Are there lateral moves andspreading out their competencies
or starting to mentor others,without necessarily taking on
that management or thatleadership role?
Not everybody wants that andthat's okay, right?
Speaker 4 (35:38):
It's okay to know what you want and what you don't
want, and you can still havegrowth within an organization
it's funny that that youmentioned that when I was a
fairly young leader, I assumedthat everyone else also wanted
to climb the chain.
Right, that's, that was my goal.
I assumed that everyone wantedto, and I had someone that was
incredibly talented as a closer,for example, and she was really
(35:59):
good at it.
And one day I approached her Isaid I really need a closing
manager and I think you're gonnabe phenomenal at this.
And she looked at me with deerin the headlights, looks like I
don't know what you're talkingabout.
And I said well, I think youcould be a great closing manager
.
And she's like that was kind ofone of those moments in time
about learning.
All right, maybe not everyone ismotivated to grow up.
(36:20):
So when you mentioned lateralmoves, you know that has been a
really big piece for us.
We definitely are buildingdepartments and it's it's saying
hey, who has enough of abackground in that to be able to
move into that department?
Maybe they're the cornerstoneof the department because of the
depth of their experience.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yeah, and for our listeners.
There is a very big differencebetween, you know, lateral
growth and dry promotions.
Right Dry promotions are abuzzword out there right now.
You know, here's a new titleand some new responsibility, but
no wage increase and and thingslike that that are going in an
organization.
And so those lateral moves docome with you additional
(36:58):
compensation, additionalresponsibility, maybe,
additional exposure andopportunities, but not
necessarily people managementresponsibility, right, and so
how people can just grow indifferent ways.
But yeah, and it in my youngerself as well it took me a long
time to realize that I had to beokay with people who had a
different view of theirpotential and desires than I had
of their potential and desires.
(37:19):
And um, and that was because Iwas so driven Like it was very
difficult for me to grasp thatthat's not what they wanted.
And um, one of my, my formercolleagues and I are talking
about working together on aproject again and um have both
kind of reset what thosepriorities are for us.
And I told her I said mybiggest concern so her biggest
concern is about the flexibilitythat she needs.
(37:40):
And I said, well, my biggestconcern is you and I are going
to get a room and work on aproject and we're not going to
afford each other theflexibility because we're going
to feed off of each other toomuch, and we both just started
laughing because we were comingat it completely caring about
the other one and what the otherone needed out of the
relationship.
But it was, you know, obviouslywell intended.
So, thinking of your youngerself, we're going to go back a
(38:02):
little further than a youngerleader.
What would you tell 16 year oldJen today as far as advice to
achieve whatever her dreams andaspirations were for her career?
Speaker 4 (38:17):
um Well, funny story first, and then I'm going to
answer that so funny story.
First I was digging backthrough I had an old high school
yearbook, was going through itwith my kids and we were
laughing at you know pictures.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
Late 80s, early 90s, and in my senior high school
picture I wore by the way, I'mwearing a business suit today.
Right, so I wore a suit jacketas a senior in high school.
Not a surprise, but what Iwould have probably told myself
back then is it's okay to getsome things wrong, because that
(38:48):
is something that I havestruggled with.
Is it making a mistake, lettingsomeone down, letting myself
down?
Those kinds of things actuallyare what have gotten me where I
am today, and not always have Ibeen accepting of the mistakes
that have been made or beingwrong about something, and I
really feel like if I could havejust told myself these are
(39:10):
going to happen and it will beokay, I don't know, maybe things
would have been a little easierfor me along the way that was
interesting.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Just this morning I was with a client and they have
a role.
That was a little the personstruggling in this role, and so
they're probably going to bringin a person above the role.
And it's like, how do I tellthis person that this is a good
thing for them as opposed to abad thing?
And that was where I was likeokay, think back through your
career.
Where did that happen to?
Because it happens to all of usat some level or another and
(39:40):
it's hard to take.
But if you can kind of likeshow that you grew from
something like that and thatthis is really an opportunity,
not a threat for this personbecause we're bringing in this
person, they describe thisperson as a potential unicorn.
I was like you have thisopportunity to learn from this
person and then think about ayear from now where you'll be,
versus you keep banging yourhead against the same wall for
(40:02):
the next 12 months.
What's that going to do to you?
Speaker 4 (40:05):
too.
I love that you said you havethe potential to learn from this
person, right?
Because I do think that, inparticular as younger leaders,
that is one of the things likewe think we want to learn but we
don't recognize all of theopportunities to do that, and
partly because maybe we feelthreatened, Maybe we feel
insecure, Maybe it's like, well,this person's you know, I'm
(40:25):
never going to have a chance tomove up if they're there.
And so I do think that's one ofthe things that's the most
important is to take thoseopportunities and say, hey, you
know what?
I'm going to learn, everythingI can learn, because there will
be some other opportunity thatis going to come available for
me.
I had a manager once and again.
Everything I've learned aboutleadership has been through the
managers I've loved and notloved.
(40:46):
So I had a leader once thatsaid to me you know if I'm not,
he said I'm here to teach youeverything I know, because if I
don't do that, then when there'san opportunity for me to grow,
I won't be able to move up, Iwon't be able to move into that
role, and so that was veryeyeopening for me to say I
(41:07):
actually need to be a sharer ofmy knowledge and not a hoarder
of my knowledge.
That will help me move into thenext role.
I need to be available for.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Yeah, teach and delegate your way out of a job,
right, and because that's theonly way you're going to have
ready-made successors who are,you know, able to sit there and
also like never being thesmartest person in the room,
right, like A how boring of aroom is that?
And you know so.
Like you, really you want tohave people who are around you
who are smarter, where, ifsomebody from the outside walks
in, they shouldn't be able totell who the leader is?
(41:36):
Right, because everybody'scollaborating, everybody's
challenging, having productiveconflict, you know, and sitting
around the room and not justshaking their head at what one
person says right, right, allright.
Well, I appreciate you beingwith us today and being on the
confidence curve with us.
I think that our listeners aredefinitely going to gain a ton
(41:59):
of insights If they want tofollow up with you and connect.
How would they do so?
Speaker 4 (42:03):
I love that and no pun, right.
Tripoint Connect.
Actually, I am on LinkedIn andso I would love I am a big
connector I would love to beconnected on LinkedIn.
You know we are perpetuallyhiring right.
We are a growing organization.
We have a lot of opportunities.
You know you can visit ourtripointhomescom website, which
is where our careers are posted.
(42:25):
But definitely the LinkedIn isgoing to be the best place and I
think that you guys will havesome access.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
Yeah, when we share everything out, we'll definitely
make sure to tag you in that sothat people can connect with
you, and I can definitely vouchJen is good at connecting people
.
If anyone in her network thatyou need a referral to or
anything like that, she isfabulous at following up with
that.
Well, rick and I, jen, we thankyou for being here today.
Thank you to all of ourlisteners for joining Confidence
Curve.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Thanks for tuning in to Confidence Curve.
We hope today's episode leftyou inspired and ready to
embrace your journey confidently.
Remember whether you're leadinga team, growing your business
or pursuing personal growth,each step forward builds your
curve.
If you enjoyed today'sconversation, don't forget to
subscribe, share and leave us areview For more insights and
resources.
Visit us at apexgtscom.
(43:15):
Until next time, keep climbingthe curve.
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