December 12, 2024 • 43 mins
Unlock the secrets to empowering incarcerated women and transforming their lives through employment in our latest episode with the remarkable Michelle Cirocco from the Televerde Foundation.
Discover how this nonprofit is turning the tide against staggering unemployment rates for the 70 million Americans with criminal records by providing essential training and support. Michelle shares inspiring personal stories that shatter stereotypes and highlight the resilience and determination of these women. The foundation's initiatives, including their popular annual golf tournament, are expanding their mission far beyond Arizona, reaching states like Indiana and Florida.
We shine a light on the critical importance of developing emotional intelligence and workplace skills for professional success. Learn how nearly a thousand women have been empowered since 2020, with impressive employment outcomes and retention rates. Emotional intelligence isn't just a buzzword—it's a tangible skill that can enhance decision-making, engagement, and loyalty in the workplace. Michelle emphasizes the role of these skills in transforming workforce dynamics and improving retention, offering a fresh perspective on reintegration into society.
Explore the strategic side of non-profits with us as Michelle discusses balancing social impact with business growth. Uncover the power of strategic partnerships and how aligning with industry needs can create a win-win situation for everyone involved. Treating social challenges as business opportunities, Michelle reveals the innovative approaches that have helped the foundation succeed while expanding its reach. We invite businesses to break stigmas and connect with the foundation to support individuals transitioning from incarceration to meaningful careers, highlighting the transformative potential of relationship-building and workforce development initiatives.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to the Confidence Curve with Ashley and
Rick Bowers, where personal andprofessional journeys define
the art of scaling withconfidence.
Whether you're a businessleader navigating change or
someone seeking personal growth,this podcast offers insights
and actionable advice to helpyou thrive.
Now let's dive into today'sconversation with our incredible
(00:31):
guest.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So welcome to the Confidence Curve.
We are here with MichelleSirocco, the Televerti
Foundation, and I couldn't bemore excited about having you on
our podcast today.
Rick and I have got to knowMichelle over the last several
years with Rick, but I thinkwe've known each other for what
15-ish years.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
A long time ago, that's for sure.
Maybe not date ourselves.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
If we can just start and maybe a little bit about
yourself and the TelevertiFoundation before we get started
into the questions.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Sure.
So I always question and wonderwhere I should start the story,
because it's a long story and Iusually joke around and say,
well, it all began when I wastwo, but that's just being glib.
So the Televerti Foundation isa local organization that I was
asked to start back in 2021,actually March 1st of 2021.
(01:27):
And it is a nonprofit workforcedevelopment organization that
specializes in providingincarcerated women with jobs and
training and support andservices to prepare to come back
into the community and intomeaningful and rewarding work
and successfully stay out ofprison for the rest of their
(01:47):
lives.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
It's such amazing work and I have the privilege of
serving on the board forMichelle as well and just
meeting the ladies, going out tothe facilities and just seeing
every single day what you'redoing for them, and I really
want to dig into theconversation today about what
they're doing for us right andenriching our lives as being a
part of it, and really how thefoundation connects with
(02:11):
employers and the work that theycan do and the amazing
employees that they can becomefor organizations that are
willing to provide that secondchance.
And, you know, look past alabel and really look to that
human.
So can't wait to dig into theconversation.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Yeah, I would say I'm most excited about your golf
tournament.
Every year it's an amazing golfcourse and it raises a lot of
money for the foundation andthose kinds of things, and so
this year was the second annualand I feel like it was a great
turnout and a lot of fun, sobeautiful day for that this year
.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Awesome.
Thank you.
We had a great time and arelooking to set the date for next
year at the same location.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Great.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Awesome.
So can you talk to me just alittle bit about some of the
numbers and the statisticsaround the work that you're
doing and the fact that thefoundation has been so
successful in eliminating thatrebound effect and just how
difficult it is for women whenthey're exiting to get
employment and to have peoplelook past that and kind of
really that core piece of whyyou started the foundation?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Absolutely so.
There's a lot of things to talkabout in that question and I
think I might actually like toset up the stage a little bit to
help people understand thesituation a little bit.
To help people understand thesituation specifically like what
does incarceration look like inour world?
And things people don'tactually think about, or maybe
you have heard about it.
You know that 70% of the peoplein our country I'm sorry, I
(03:36):
just lost my thought process at70%, it's not 70%, it's 70
million people in our countryhave a criminal record.
What this actually means is toput it into perspective when you
think about it is that if youknow somebody with a college
degree, you probably knowsomebody who has a criminal
record, because it is one inthree people in our country.
(03:57):
It's a lot and it continues togrow, and when somebody has a
felony conviction, it's like ascarlet letter that follows them
forever.
The challenges associated withhaving a criminal record, being
directly impacted by the justicesystem, really show up in so
many ways, and one of thebiggest ways is employment.
(04:19):
For somebody with a criminalrecord, the unemployment rate is
five times that of the nationalaverage, and it's even worse
for women.
In fact, for women.
One full calendar year afterbeing released from
incarceration, over 50% of womenwill still be unemployed is
(04:45):
when we think aboutincarceration, and it's supposed
to be rehabilitation andcorrection, and that you come
out of prison and you should beable to reintegrate into the
community.
It's just simply not the story.
Every year, there are about700,000 people that are released
from prison, and the recidivismrate is depending on what frame
of time you look at.
Rate is, depending on whatframe of time you look at, can
(05:08):
range from anywhere from 20% inthe first year to 80% within
eight years, and the number onepredictor for recidivism is
joblessness.
And so, as I said, with anunemployment rate five times the
national average, it's nowonder why we have such a high
recidivism rate and why ourprison populations are so full.
(05:31):
There's currently about 2million people who are
incarcerated in the UnitedStates.
So that's kind of just helpingto understand and I'm talking
big numbers.
We're sitting here in littleold Phoenix Arizona, big numbers
.
You know we're sitting here inlittle old Phoenix, Arizona, but
we have 41,000 people in prisonhere in Arizona and close to
10% of them are women, and sothat's where our heart and our
(05:53):
passion is and has been is withserving the women here in
Arizona, but also in a few otherstates Indiana and Florida.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I think one of the things that was really
eye-opening to me and this hasto be, I don't know probably
eight or 10 years ago and youand I were having we were having
lunch at Red Robin actually.
It really stood out to me and wewere sitting there and talking
and you just looked across it tome and you're like Ashley, half
the women that are in there arewomen, just like us.
I mean, they're educated women,They've had professional
(06:22):
careers and, like you thinkabout it, it's a bad back
pushing through a deadline andthere's a prescription and
things derail and so you knowthe reasons behind it and to
just you know, put that blanket,scarlet letter, as you say,
across people and not understandtheir story, not understand
what got them to that place.
But then, even having theopportunity to go out and tour
(06:46):
the facility at Perryville, Idid not know what to expect and
I was terrified.
And, like my entire interactionwith the justice system as a
human being is, I have beenpulled over one time in my life,
right, so I was terrified anddid not know what to think and
within seconds you almost forgetthat you're in a prison because
(07:06):
obviously you have the optionto walk out, Like right, Like
you know that.
But your interaction with thehumans that are in there is just
and they're humans, right, Likewe put these other labels on
them.
They are humans and they arenecessary and they are a part of
our society and our future.
And I think that day they hadlike a 30 minute heads up that
we were coming and they had aPowerPoint together.
(07:26):
They were standing up andpresenting in front of complete
strangers.
They knew like the mission, thestory, they could answer
questions so articulate and itwas just.
It was amazing Like anyonewould be lucky to employ any one
of the women that I was able tointeract with that day, but for
some reason we don't thinkabout that and we don't go to
(07:47):
them as a resource and evenmaybe shy away from it.
So how is the foundationbreaking through some of those
barriers?
And what do employers need toknow about the benefits of
bringing on formerlyincarcerated women who you know,
they've been through it andthey've worked so hard,
especially if they were part ofthe Tel Aviv Foundation.
They have self-efficacy,They've gone through assessments
(08:07):
which I'm sure Rick will jumpinto and they've learned about
themselves and they're ready tomake a difference.
What do they need to know?
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Well, I think the first thing to think about is I
think you kind of touched on itthe people who exist in our
prisons are people just like youand I.
They're people who went leftwhen they should have gone right
.
Circumstances in their life ledto whatever decisions they made
on the worst days of their life.
And so I always say do you wantto be judged for the worst
(08:35):
decisions you made on the worstday of your life?
Say you know, in fulltransparency, full honesty, that
we have never gotten behind thewheel after one too many, or
when we were in college orwherever we were, we didn't do X
, y or Z that could haveresulted us in us ending up
there.
So that's the first thing, isjust recognizing that these are
(08:57):
people that, by virtue ofwhatever circumstance, made some
decisions that resulted in thembeing there.
But then it's about whathappens when you're there.
How do people do their time, andwe can be led to believe that
what we see on TV and in themovies is what's really
happening in our prisons.
And certainly in some pockets,in some places perhaps, yes, but
(09:20):
in general it's people who havefound themselves in a spot and
when they got there theyrealized I need to figure out
how to have a better life, Ineed to do something different
if I'm going to survive, and sothat's essentially what the
foundation does is we provideeverybody with that opportunity,
a platform on which they canrebuild their lives, and it's
(09:42):
we've developed a really, reallycomprehensive program that
addresses the entire human being.
Right, like people want to saywords like comprehensive and
holistic and wrap around and Idon't know what the exact word
to describe it is I say right,like we're all people and we're
a complete person, and we helpthe women get right in all
(10:04):
aspects physically, mentally,spiritually, emotionally,
vocationally, educationally andfinancially.
And right.
So the program is built aroundall of these elements that
enable a person to really usetheir time, to come out of
prison a better person than theywere when they went in.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
So I know you've done some work with training the
foundation, with the assessmentson emotional intelligence.
You want to kind of add to that.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yeah, we had a very fun day when I came down to the
office with all of the team andwe went through the emotional
intelligence training and wentthrough the certification
process.
We utilized the TTI, successInsights Emotional Intelligence.
They were gracious enough todonate the assessments to the
foundation, but it really kindof creates the number one thing
(10:56):
that I think can help them getto that next space, which is the
self-awareness, and so helpingan individual whether it's
somebody that's incarcerated orworking with a very successful
CEO in an organization theystill need to have that
self-awareness andself-regulation, and sometimes
we're aware of what's going onbut we can't regulate it back.
And so how, what kind ofresults are you seeing with the
(11:18):
girls that have gone through theemotional intelligence
assessment, and kind of are they?
Yeah, it's it's incredible.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
So emotional intelligence, the whole idea
stems from years ago.
My boss told me like oh, youneed to develop yourself, your
emotional intelligence and Iwent the heck does that mean and
how does one go about doingthat?
And so when I was tasked withstarting the foundation and
developing curriculum to helpthe women prepare, I thought,
(11:46):
okay, well, emotionalintelligence how do we teach it?
And fortunately, you know,since the decades ago when I got
that advice, lots of peoplehave figured out what it is and
how to talk about it and how todevelop it.
And so emotional intelligence ispart of our core curriculum.
And so you were talking aboutwhat can businesses expect from
hiring our women?
(12:07):
Like, from day one we start onyou know personality types, your
personal core values, feedback,and all you could do was go.
I can't understand that.
That's not true.
I don't believe them.
(12:27):
Right, I'm not that person.
So, teaching people how toreceive feedback, but also how
to effectively give it, not justto people beneath them but to
peers, and give feedback to yourboss and be honest and
transparent, so reallydeveloping those essential
skills that I think are reallycritical at work, because we can
(12:48):
teach people job skills, that'sthe easy part.
The vocational part is easy.
People go to prison all thetime and learn vocational skills
.
You can get college degrees,you can get HVAC, you can get
plumbing, you can get all kindsof trades and certificates to do
to do jobs, but without theessential skills, without
(13:10):
emotional intelligence andcritical thinking and
communication skills and publicspeaking skills, the ability to
clearly articulate an idea or athought in a meaningful manner,
right, or even the ability todeescalate a heated situation.
So we focus on that's like thefirst semester of everything
that we do is to help peoplelike develop those essential
(13:33):
human skills that so many of usare lacking.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Okay, the saying goes to you hire for skills and fire
for attitude.
And the attitude is a big pieceand it's a choice.
Attitude's a choice.
The hard skills are things thatyou have to kind of learn and
kind of understand that.
But it's the hard skills versusthe people skills, and the
people skills kind of get you tothat next level.
The hard skills get you in adoor and so, where you can kind
of understand that, the biggest,bigger difference it makes.
(13:59):
One of the things additionallywith EQ is one negative event
can affect your decision-makingability for up to four hours on
average, and so think abouthaving someone road rage or
something like that.
That's that simple.
And now you're making poordecisions behind the wheel or
you walk into a negative emailin the office and you're like
(14:21):
frustrated the rest of themorning and those kinds of
things.
So that's such a powerful toolto kind of work through.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Well, and that's what it's amazing to watch the light
bulbs go off when we teach theemotional intelligence.
And then they get their reportand they work with their manager
on their assessment because ittells them these are the things
that I need, and watching howthey just bloom.
And it is one of the things youknow at end of program that
people say, like emotionalintelligence was just a biggie
(14:49):
for me, Like because it does.
It helps them regulate theiremotions and they didn't get
there because they were good atregulating emotions and reacting
effectively in, you know, roughsituations.
So yeah, it's such a greatpiece of the program.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, and you know it's interesting because so many
times, like with assessmentsright, there are certain
assessments where you're kind ofhardwired, you are who you are,
but with the emotionalintelligence it is something
that can be developed right.
So no matter where they arewhen they're starting, they,
like you said, like there's todo some things like that where
they can continue to grow.
It kind of leads me to thetopic of employee engagement,
right, every organization outthere struggles with it.
(15:25):
You know some more than others.
Different times it might bemore difficult than others, but
can you just give me someexamples or even just your
thoughts in general on howengaged and committed and loyal
these women are when they takeemployment?
I know some of the stats areunbelievable as far as their
retention and staying in notonly with one company but within
(15:46):
a specific job in a company.
So can you talk to that alittle bit, based on the
programming?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Yeah.
So let's talk just a little bithigh-level stats about the
results that we've been able toachieve since we started the
program in 2020.
We've had 985 women go throughthe program.
I'm really excited because nextweek we will enroll number
1,000.
So, yeah, we're really excited645 women have transitioned back
(16:11):
into the community and theresults that they're realizing
are just incredible.
So 94% of them have beenemployed within 45 days, average
starting salary of about$40,000 a year, but,
specifically to your point, likethe commitment that they have
when they get into what we calla B job.
(16:31):
So, for perspective, we talk alot about ABC jobs and a job is
like look, you got to get out,you got to get a job, you got to
get money coming in.
Your responsibility when youget there is to show up to
deliver, to demonstrate rightand get a raise, get an increase
, get promoted or get stableenough that you can now go out
(16:53):
and find that B job, a betterjob.
And so a better job is definedas generally anything that's
$40,000 a year or more that youcan see a pathway to what your
next stage is in that job.
So it's not working at TacoBell thinking you're going to
get the team lead job, but it's,you know it's a pathway.
And then, when you get intothat better job, now it's time
(17:14):
to start to continue theinvestment in yourself, continue
to learn, continue to grow, getsome schooling so that you can
now progress it to your careerjob, what is your career
aspirations?
And so the women who, once theyland in what we define as a B
job, their average tenure rightnow is about 540 days, so about
(17:37):
18 months, and considering therunway that we're talking about
is pretty short.
But these are entry-level,mid-entry-level positions and
that's the space where mostcompanies are having the hardest
time retaining people, theirhardest time attracting people
and the hardest time retainingpeople in those jobs, and so we
(17:59):
have a pool of talent I'mgraduating right now about 300
women a year who are eager forthese jobs, and when they get
there, they are incredibly loyaland dedicated, because one of
the things I can tell you fromexperience is that the only
worst thing worse than tellingsomebody you've been to prison
(18:20):
right, that there's nothingworse than having to test so you
don't want to the only thingworse than going to prison is
actually having to tell somebodyyou've been there, there you go
Tongue tied a couple timestoday not usual.
Yeah.
So if you could imagine whenyou come out of prison you don't
exactly want to run aroundtelling everybody hey, I went to
prison, so once you get the joband you've gone through the
process of explaining it andsomebody has said, hey, I'll
(18:42):
give you a chance, I'll give youan opportunity.
You really want to get in thereand prove yourself.
And Like, you really want toget in there and prove yourself
and and you don't want to haveto leave and go repeat the cycle
again, and so people tend tostay incredibly loyal.
Televerti, the for profitbusiness, is a phenomenal
example.
I mean, the average tenure ofthe women who go to work at
(19:02):
Televerti after incarceration issomething like eight and a half
years.
I mean, we just love to stickaround like eight and a half
years.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I mean, we, we just love to stick around.
Well, and I think too, justwhen you think about 18 months,
right In in a single positionwithin an organization, the
competition for those roles aregoing to be new grads coming out
of high, coming out of college,and you know they're, they're
coming in, it's their first jobout of college, they're trying
to make that mark for themselves.
Um, you know they're in thatsame range, but within six
(19:31):
months they're like where's mypromotion?
I'm ready, like let's go next.
And so it's constantly as likea manager and a leader of like
okay, hold on, like let'sthrottle back, let's do this,
let's do that, and like takingthem through a path, whereas the
engagement with these women andstaying in and you know, kind
of leaning into that positionand having the patience and the
emotional intelligence and allthe things that they're taught
(19:52):
through their programming, Ithink is just monumentally
beneficial to organizations.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Yeah Well and it's even the jobs you know, cause
they, the jobs that they'll takeand want and be thrilled with,
are the ones the college kidswon't touch.
And they're not likely to be 18months in going.
So when am I going to be adirector Right?
When do I get my VP title?
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Yes, yeah, everybody just wants to check a box and
move to the next step.
Yeah, and it's just not thatsimple.
What do you find?
How does the experience thatthey bring and some of them
don't have a lot of experience,some of them probably have a ton
of experience how does thatplay into the different types of
jobs that they can get?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Well, I think that does play a lot into it, right?
So some of the women that havemore experience can land into
higher level inside sales or ITpositions, where the ones that
don't have experience but havedone all the training they're
more likely coming into thosecustomer service entry level
inside sales roles.
(20:53):
The space where we are reallystruggling to get people
positions, which is kind ofbaffles me, is in the IT space.
So these women are gettingcertified from Cisco and Google
in IT networking, cybersecurity,project management, and it's
(21:13):
really hard to get somebody totake a chance.
They have all the credentialsin the world and it's hard to
get anybody to take a chance onthem without actually experience
, right?
So it's the old adage like howdo you get experience if you
don't you know, and so that webump into that a lot.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
So, kind of just thinking through all the
different experiences you've hadsince starting the foundation,
can you pull maybe a personalstory that really embodies the
success of the work that you'redoing inside the foundation and
with the women?
I'm sure you have several, Iknow.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
There's so many of the women with such great
stories Jeez, it's always hardto pick one, I guess.
Probably.
I mean one of my favorites isprobably Ashley.
And Ashley was in the very,very first cohort of our
workforce development programand she's probably tired of me
(22:06):
telling this story, but she hadbeen sentenced to 10 years in
prison.
She was at eight years and shehad done no programming
whatsoever and we were launchingthis new program, looking for
15 people to follow me on thisvision that I had to go build
this workforce developmentprogram and who was going to be
(22:27):
brave enough to follow along.
And she signed up for theprogram only because her
counselor or prison boss kind oftold her that she should do it.
And day one came and she showedup at the door and kind of
knocked on the door and said youknow, hey, I need to talk to
you.
(22:47):
And she's like I'm not going topartake in the program.
And I was like, well, what doyou mean?
And she's like, well, I'mreally busy.
I'm like I look, kind of lookaround look around the prison.
I'm looking at her in her shortsand her shower shoes and I'm
like you're really busy, really.
What do you got going on?
And she's like, well, you know,I'm going home in a couple
months and I just I have a lotto do.
(23:09):
And I'm like, oh, like well,what do you got to do?
Well, I'm planning, and youknow, and I'm thinking about
what I'm going to do, and so Ijust I just have a lot going on.
I go, okay, well, are you sure?
Like, are you sure you're notscared?
Because I understand if you'rescared, because this kind of
seems like a lot.
No, I'm not scared.
She's like I'm just busy.
So she stomps off and I'm like,okay.
(23:31):
And so week goes by and I keeppassing her every day, I like
walk by and she looks at me, andso then, finally, about the end
of the first week, she comes upand she's like I think I made a
mistake.
So when you do the next class,she's like I'll, I'll enroll in
the next class.
I'm like, oh, well, you knowwhat?
(23:56):
We still have a desk availableif you want.
Like, come see me on Monday andlet's talk about it.
And so she came on Monday andthe other girls that had been
there for a week.
I'm like, okay, this is likeSurvivor, they're going to vote
you on or off.
And the other girl said, well,she can stay.
And yeah.
So she goes through program.
She insists that she doesn'tlike to learn I'm a terrible
student, I can't learn anything.
She starts her Arizona StateUniversity classes so all the
women do six credits from ASUand communications Starts the
(24:18):
classes and realized that she'slike falling in love with
learning and she can't getenough of it.
And so she goes through thewhole six-month program and
realizes that she is notprepared to go home, that her
plans for where she was going togo home to were not safe and
not healthy, because we do a lotof work on like boundaries and
what are your plans and you knowwhat are you going to do for
(24:40):
the future.
And she goes into her counselorand she waives her parole and
makes a decision to stay inprison for another year.
Like that's stunning to thinkabout.
And she just basically said Ineed to stay here so I can learn
more skills and really kind ofdevelop myself to be prepared to
(25:01):
go out and do the right thing.
And so she hired on at Telverde, the for-profit company, and
then ultimately hired on at thefoundation as a project
coordinator for-profit companyand then ultimately hired on at
the foundation as a projectcoordinator.
One of my very first hires shewas released on Valentine's Day
and what I love about the storyabout being released on
Valentine's Day is she went toprison behind some really bad,
dysfunctional relationshipsbecause she was highly
(25:25):
codependent and all of thosethings that we can be.
And she was released onValentine's Day and she said you
know, I was released and Ididn't need anybody and I didn't
need anybody to need me.
And she started her role at theTel Aviv Foundation two weeks
later as a program specialistand since that time it's now
(25:48):
been 18 months a little over 18months.
She has enrolled at ArizonaState University, she's
completed her project managementcertification, she's been
promoted and she has reunitedwith her children and just
really launched a beautiful lifebetter than she, like she says,
(26:11):
better than I ever imaginedpossible, even before I went to
prison.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I think what's so beautiful about that story is
that she achieved a level offreedom that nobody else can
provide her and nobody else cantake away from her, you know,
through being incarcerated andgoing through programming and
all of that, and was able tocome out with that type of
feeling and perspective and justconfidence.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Yeah Well, it's because it's so many things
right.
It's the personal independence,financial independence, it's
mental independence, there's somany things which is everything
that we do is built on thisconcept of self-efficacy and for
employers, I think,self-efficacy for individuals,
self-efficacy and for employers,like, I think, self-efficacy
for individuals, self-efficacyis incredible, but it's such a
(26:56):
great gift for employers if yourfolks have self-efficacy,
because it's basically whensomebody realizes that, hey, you
know what, I can learnsomething new, I'm capable of
learning, and then they willinvest the time and effort and
the commitment and thepersistence to actually learn it
(27:16):
and then apply it and put it towork and achieve.
On the other side, so it's like, oh, maybe I could, oh, yes, I
can, and oh, by golly I will,and then to keep repeating that
cycle over and over, and so itcreates this drive of always
wanting to do more and try more.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
So we've talked a lot about the purpose, but as a
successful business leader, howdo you balance the social impact
with the profitability andkeeping the business growing and
thriving as you have?
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah well, the beauty of nonprofit.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Or the funding balance, the funding right, the
beauty of nonprofit Like.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
the first thing that I learned is nonprofit does not
mean no revenue.
I always laugh when people say Iwant to start a nonprofit.
I'm like, oh, it's not for thefaint of heart, it is.
Look, it's a constant.
And as somebody who didn't comeinto the nonprofit world with
any experience in nonprofit, Ithink the first thing that I
(28:16):
learned is that, you know, I hada sales and marketing
background and, like all of asudden, now my job was to sell
something that had no tangible.
It's just about, you know, theimpact and the power that we're
having and so, um, you know thebalances is spending the time
and finding all of the rightgrants and resources and funders
that support this type of work.
(28:37):
So there is that that issomething that's out there, but
it's a lot of work and it'shighly competitive.
But we are.
You know, part of the way thatwe do this is through corporate
sponsorships.
So companies that recognizethat they have a need for talent
(28:57):
and are willing to make aninvestment or, you know, get
involved in creating their ownwhat I call prison to workforce
pipelines.
So you've got a talent gap andI have highly motivated and
dedicated people that can helpyou solve that problem.
Our workforce developmentprogram is designed in such a
(29:19):
way that we can.
The curriculum.
The second semester of theircurriculum is interchangeable,
so that we can actually preparepeople for companies' very
specific in-demand jobs, so thatthey are walking out job-ready
to walk into your organizationand start to be productive from
day one.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I think that that's something.
Obviously, businesses andindividuals are always deciding
where to give the gifts thatthey're prepared to give in any
particular year, but I just feellike when, definitely biased,
but I feel like with thefoundation it's, it's not just
giving.
There are so many differentways in where organizations can
(30:01):
have a very, very strong return.
They can solve needs.
There are tax benefits tohiring formerly incarcerated
individuals, and so it's yes,there is the cause and the
donations and all of that thatobviously makes the foundation
go around.
But there are those servicesfor placement and training and
(30:23):
development.
I mean, that's obviously what wedo, right Constantly coaching
and developing employees,teaching them emotional
intelligence, giving them theirjob skills, kind of pulling them
back and saying like, hey,let's pause and here's a career
path and this is what we want todo.
You're literally doing all ofthat work for these
organizations and in thosecorporate sponsorships, if
(30:45):
there's a need that anyone hasout there for a specific skill
set with employees, as Michellewas saying, they can change out
that curriculum, and soliterally people can be being
trained while they're in prison,before they're on your payroll,
and then move into theorganization and be ready to
start being productive andcontribute, and they're going to
(31:06):
be extraordinarily loyal too.
So I mean it really does solvea need both directions.
It's a two-way street with thework that companies can do with
the foundation, and I think thatthat's unique and special about
the work you're doingAbsolutely Well and it's
certainly more valuable thanjust giving right, of course,
and I shouldn't say that wegraciously accept donations of
(31:28):
all sizes and shapes and forms.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
However, this is a solution to a business problem,
and that is always how I viewedthe work that we're doing is
this is a societal problem andit's a business problem, and
it's a business problem, andthat is always how I viewed the
work that we're doing is this isa this is a societal problem
and it's a business problem andit's a people problem, and I
believe that when, when we canbring the three together, um, we
can really have lasting impacton people's lives, on people, on
our communities, um, and on ourworkplaces.
(31:53):
I mean it's what it, it's whatmatters.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Well, it goes back to the conscious capitalism and
we're sitting in Mac six,obviously, where the chapter is.
But we've all done work in thatspace and this is like a true
conscious capitalism movement,every single person.
It's good for all stakeholdersinvolved and community,
obviously, the individuals, thecompany, the vendors, just all
(32:17):
around.
It makes sense.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Yeah, I mean, and when you think about conscious
capitalism and one of the wordsthat tends to come to mind, at
least for me, is the empathy,and that ties back to the
emotional intelligence again,which, in the categories in the
TTI assessment, it's socialawareness.
It's like how aware am I of howmy actions and things are
impacting other people?
And I mean that makes a hugedifference in terms of
communication and presentingyourself in a job interview and
(32:44):
all of the pieces that peoplehave to go through as they make
transitions in their life.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Can you talk a little bit too, as Rick was mentioning
earlier, kind of balancing thepurpose and the mission of the
foundation with the businessside of it?
You and your team, you run itlike a business and you're in
and your senior team needs yourstrategic planning.
So what have been some of thosestrategies to make sure that
the foundation is successful,that you've pulled over from
that for-profit side?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Yeah, it's an interesting question, Because
when I was asked to do this, myimmediate response was I know
nothing about running anonprofit, I don't want to do
this, I don't know how to dothis.
And my boss said, good, go runit like a business.
And I was like probably thebest piece of advice anybody
ever gave me, because Iimmediately just sat down and
said, okay, build a businessplan.
(33:32):
Values, what's our three-yearstrategic plan?
What's our one-year tactics?
Goals, strategies and tacticsLike the same exact framework
that I employed, you know, whenI was, you know, running the
for-profit side of the businesswas.
I just basically applied thoseprinciples to what we do, and
it's I mean, it's the basics ofwhat you do in business.
(33:54):
In fact, I'm getting ready hereat Mac6.
Two weeks from now, we've gotthe conference room reserved
where we'll be doing our 2025strategic planning session, and
it's a matter of you know.
We know what our long-term goalis, and our long-term goal is,
you know, now it's two moreyears out and that's to be
(34:14):
serving 1,000 people a year, andyou know.
Then there's the four differentpillars that we have to achieve
to get those, and I thinkprobably the biggest one that is
relevant to anybody is, youknow, really diversifying your
revenue streams.
Right, I can't be 100% ongovernment grants, because
(34:36):
governments change, you know,and with the changes in
leadership can be changes inpriorities which then trickle
down to changes in funding.
So can't be ever dependent onone single customer, right, we
all know that in business.
So just really diversifyingthose revenue streams.
And then, of course, the samething, right, Processes, right,
(34:58):
Streamlining our processes,operations.
So how are we as efficient aspossible so that we can achieve
as much as we can with the leastamount of expense?
Because that is an unfortunateum side of the nonprofit world
is that you are expected to doeverything with less than you
know, 15%, uh, administrativeoverhead costs.
So it makes it really hard.
(35:19):
They expect you to pay peopleterribly, but I refuse to do
that.
So hence the reason whydiversifying revenue is so
important.
And then, really, employeeengagement and governance.
So it's the same coreprinciples that you apply to any
business.
And just staying true to whatthe mission is, I think is
(35:40):
probably the key thing is wetalk a lot about swim lanes in
business and what is the mission?
You have your mission statementand always going back to how
does this serve the mission andstaying focused right, Because
we can't be everything toeverybody.
So this is what our vision is.
We're an employment first modeland we believe that people
(36:02):
succeed when we empower them tohave everything they need to get
out of prison and havesuccessful and meaningful and
rewarding careers.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Awesome.
So what's next for thefoundation?
Speaker 3 (36:15):
What's next for the foundation?
As I said, our goal right nowis to be serving 1,000 people a
year.
We're about halfway there.
With the newest agreement thatwe just will do five, we're
expecting to serve about 525people in 2025.
That's a good number.
I just realized that because Ijust did the calculations
(36:35):
yesterday.
I'm like oh, it's 525.
How convenient.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
That is going to come up everywhere in Michelle's
marketing, that sales andmarketing background is going to
play on it for sure.
25 and 25.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Yes, that's exactly right.
So donate $25, 25,000, 2,500,because we're going to do 25 and
25.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
She's going to grab her phone and start texting
somebody.
The new marketing plan.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Yeah, so yeah, and so then it's a matter of the where
are we going?
Right now we are proactivelysetting up operations in Florida
.
We're going to start a littlepilot in Florida.
We're going to kind of try toget our way in much the way we
(37:17):
got our way in here in Arizona,small and subtle Miami.
We'll have a big event theresecond week of December
opportunities to actually comeand see the prison and get
involved and be on the groundfloor of the investment and the
development of this program.
Place that we're going to go?
(37:43):
Illinois, idaho, north Dakota,ohio there's a lot of places on
my radar.
It's a matter of what states,what organizations are committed
to making a difference in thelives of the folks that are
coming out of prison and findingways to partner with them.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
So back to the golf tournament.
A couple of people that playedwith us in the golf tournament
didn't really know a lot aboutit, but as we were having
conversations on the course andthen having the all of your
women on the course at thedifferent holes telling their
stories and things is alwaysgreat.
But how to?
How to companies?
How can they get more involved?
If they want to potentiallyhire, what can they do to?
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Well, the easiest way to get involved is to connect
with me.
Linkedin I am actually somebody.
If you connect with me onLinkedIn and you send me a
personal message, I will answeryour message.
I will connect with you.
I will meet with you personally.
I think relationships are themost important piece of the game
.
Personally, I thinkrelationships are the most
(38:42):
important piece of the game, andso you can find me on LinkedIn,
which is just Michelle with twoL's Sirocco, c-i-r-o-c-c-o.
That's an easy way.
Or, of course, our website,which is televityfoundationorg.
If you go to the website andyou fill out a thing, somebody
will contact you within 24 hoursand see how we can partner with
you.
Or if you'd like to getinvolved in volunteering or you
(39:04):
just want to know more about ourprograms, we love to share the
stories and I would tell youcandidly, my favorite thing to
do is to take people to prison.
So if you are really interestedin learning more and you'd like
to actually get a sense forespecially from an employment
standpoint, because sometimesit's hard the media has taught
(39:24):
us to think about what exists inour prisons in a certain way,
and so to really like changethat perspective.
That's why I say nothing makesme happier than to take people
to prison, because, at the veryleast, when you go there, you
realize it's not what youexpected, and it helps to break
down the stigmas associated withincarceration, and so I would
(39:47):
encourage anybody who isinterested in getting involved
in our work to reach out and getinvolved in that way.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
Don't sneak your cell phone in like Ashley did.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Don't say that on the radio.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
I'm going to be having a different level of
interaction with law enforcementafter that.
So, yeah, and again, just tokind of amplify the point as we
close up here, you know, ifyou're an employer who is
needing a solve for yourworkforce development and
employment options, it's reallya great place to start.
Have a conversation, go havecoffee with Michelle or one of
(40:22):
the team members and just youknow, see what's out there.
It just it really makes adifference.
Personally, my entireperspective has changed with
working with the foundation, soI'm forever grateful for that
and it's just amazing.
Women, amazing stories and a lotof good work has happened and a
lot of work needs to stillhappen and businesses need this.
(40:44):
You know we talked withbusinesses every single day that
are looking for people who wantto work and want to make a
difference and really want to,you know, get in and help a
company grow, and there is apool of talent available,
graduating each and every year,so definitely tap into them.
But thank you so much for beinghere today.
We really appreciate your timeand all the work that you're
(41:04):
doing.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Thank you, I do, actually.
Can I take one more comment,because it occurred to me just
this moment that I shared a lotof statistics with you about how
many people have been throughour program and how many people
have come back into thecommunity, and I also shared
with you the high rates ofrecidivism and how many people
go back to prison.
And what I didn't share withyou was the ultimate impact of
(41:25):
our program.
So, for those 645 women thathave transitioned back into the
community over the past four anda half years, only three people
have gone back to prison.
So less than 1% recidivism ratecompared to national averages
that range from 20 to 80%.
So it's a program that worksbecause, as I mentioned,
(41:49):
employment is the biggestpredictor and the women are able
to come out and get into goodjobs and stay there, rebuild
their lives, rebuild theirfamilies and just stay out of
prison forever.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
And just as many children have been impacted by
that too.
Right, that kind of the numbergoes kind of hand in hand.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Yeah, we talk about the ripple effect.
So that's 60% of women inprison have children under the
age of 18.
And so for our women, for the645 women that have come home,
there are 1,217 children thatare experiencing the positive
benefit of having their mom comehome and stay home and really
(42:27):
just breaking those generationalcycles of poverty and
incarceration.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Back to the impact.
It impacts us all ourcommunities, our work, our
companies, our hearts.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
My pleasure.
Thank you for having me ourhearts.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
So thank you so much for being here my pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Thanks for tuning in to theConfidence Curve.
We hope today's episode leftyou inspired and ready to
embrace your journey confidently.
Remember whether you're leadinga team, growing your business
or pursuing personal growth,each step forward builds your
curve.
If you enjoyed today'sconversation, don't forget to
(43:03):
subscribe, share and leave us areview.
For more insights and resources, visit us at apexgtscom.
Until next time, keep climbingthe curve.
Welcome to the Confidence Curve with Ashley and
Rick Bowers, where personal andprofessional journeys define
the art of scaling withconfidence.
Whether you're a businessleader navigating change or
someone seeking personal growth,this podcast offers insights
and actionable advice to helpyou thrive.
Now let's dive into today'sconversation with our incredible
(00:31):
guest.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So welcome to the Confidence Curve.
We are here with MichelleSirocco, the Televerti
Foundation, and I couldn't bemore excited about having you on
our podcast today.
Rick and I have got to knowMichelle over the last several
years with Rick, but I thinkwe've known each other for what
15-ish years.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
A long time ago, that's for sure.
Maybe not date ourselves.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
If we can just start and maybe a little bit about
yourself and the TelevertiFoundation before we get started
into the questions.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Sure.
So I always question and wonderwhere I should start the story,
because it's a long story and Iusually joke around and say,
well, it all began when I wastwo, but that's just being glib.
So the Televerti Foundation isa local organization that I was
asked to start back in 2021,actually March 1st of 2021.
(01:27):
And it is a nonprofit workforcedevelopment organization that
specializes in providingincarcerated women with jobs and
training and support andservices to prepare to come back
into the community and intomeaningful and rewarding work
and successfully stay out ofprison for the rest of their
(01:47):
lives.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
It's such amazing work and I have the privilege of
serving on the board forMichelle as well and just
meeting the ladies, going out tothe facilities and just seeing
every single day what you'redoing for them, and I really
want to dig into theconversation today about what
they're doing for us right andenriching our lives as being a
part of it, and really how thefoundation connects with
(02:11):
employers and the work that theycan do and the amazing
employees that they can becomefor organizations that are
willing to provide that secondchance.
And, you know, look past alabel and really look to that
human.
So can't wait to dig into theconversation.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Yeah, I would say I'm most excited about your golf
tournament.
Every year it's an amazing golfcourse and it raises a lot of
money for the foundation andthose kinds of things, and so
this year was the second annualand I feel like it was a great
turnout and a lot of fun, sobeautiful day for that this year
.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Awesome.
Thank you.
We had a great time and arelooking to set the date for next
year at the same location.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Great.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Awesome.
So can you talk to me just alittle bit about some of the
numbers and the statisticsaround the work that you're
doing and the fact that thefoundation has been so
successful in eliminating thatrebound effect and just how
difficult it is for women whenthey're exiting to get
employment and to have peoplelook past that and kind of
really that core piece of whyyou started the foundation?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Absolutely so.
There's a lot of things to talkabout in that question and I
think I might actually like toset up the stage a little bit to
help people understand thesituation a little bit.
To help people understand thesituation specifically like what
does incarceration look like inour world?
And things people don'tactually think about, or maybe
you have heard about it.
You know that 70% of the peoplein our country I'm sorry, I
(03:36):
just lost my thought process at70%, it's not 70%, it's 70
million people in our countryhave a criminal record.
What this actually means is toput it into perspective when you
think about it is that if youknow somebody with a college
degree, you probably knowsomebody who has a criminal
record, because it is one inthree people in our country.
(03:57):
It's a lot and it continues togrow, and when somebody has a
felony conviction, it's like ascarlet letter that follows them
forever.
The challenges associated withhaving a criminal record, being
directly impacted by the justicesystem, really show up in so
many ways, and one of thebiggest ways is employment.
(04:19):
For somebody with a criminalrecord, the unemployment rate is
five times that of the nationalaverage, and it's even worse
for women.
In fact, for women.
One full calendar year afterbeing released from
incarceration, over 50% of womenwill still be unemployed is
(04:45):
when we think aboutincarceration, and it's supposed
to be rehabilitation andcorrection, and that you come
out of prison and you should beable to reintegrate into the
community.
It's just simply not the story.
Every year, there are about700,000 people that are released
from prison, and the recidivismrate is depending on what frame
of time you look at.
Rate is, depending on whatframe of time you look at, can
(05:08):
range from anywhere from 20% inthe first year to 80% within
eight years, and the number onepredictor for recidivism is
joblessness.
And so, as I said, with anunemployment rate five times the
national average, it's nowonder why we have such a high
recidivism rate and why ourprison populations are so full.
(05:31):
There's currently about 2million people who are
incarcerated in the UnitedStates.
So that's kind of just helpingto understand and I'm talking
big numbers.
We're sitting here in littleold Phoenix Arizona, big numbers
.
You know we're sitting here inlittle old Phoenix, Arizona, but
we have 41,000 people in prisonhere in Arizona and close to
10% of them are women, and sothat's where our heart and our
(05:53):
passion is and has been is withserving the women here in
Arizona, but also in a few otherstates Indiana and Florida.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I think one of the things that was really
eye-opening to me and this hasto be, I don't know probably
eight or 10 years ago and youand I were having we were having
lunch at Red Robin actually.
It really stood out to me and wewere sitting there and talking
and you just looked across it tome and you're like Ashley, half
the women that are in there arewomen, just like us.
I mean, they're educated women,They've had professional
(06:22):
careers and, like you thinkabout it, it's a bad back
pushing through a deadline andthere's a prescription and
things derail and so you knowthe reasons behind it and to
just you know, put that blanket,scarlet letter, as you say,
across people and not understandtheir story, not understand
what got them to that place.
But then, even having theopportunity to go out and tour
(06:46):
the facility at Perryville, Idid not know what to expect and
I was terrified.
And, like my entire interactionwith the justice system as a
human being is, I have beenpulled over one time in my life,
right, so I was terrified anddid not know what to think and
within seconds you almost forgetthat you're in a prison because
(07:06):
obviously you have the optionto walk out, Like right, Like
you know that.
But your interaction with thehumans that are in there is just
and they're humans, right, Likewe put these other labels on
them.
They are humans and they arenecessary and they are a part of
our society and our future.
And I think that day they hadlike a 30 minute heads up that
we were coming and they had aPowerPoint together.
(07:26):
They were standing up andpresenting in front of complete
strangers.
They knew like the mission, thestory, they could answer
questions so articulate and itwas just.
It was amazing Like anyonewould be lucky to employ any one
of the women that I was able tointeract with that day, but for
some reason we don't thinkabout that and we don't go to
(07:47):
them as a resource and evenmaybe shy away from it.
So how is the foundationbreaking through some of those
barriers?
And what do employers need toknow about the benefits of
bringing on formerlyincarcerated women who you know,
they've been through it andthey've worked so hard,
especially if they were part ofthe Tel Aviv Foundation.
They have self-efficacy,They've gone through assessments
(08:07):
which I'm sure Rick will jumpinto and they've learned about
themselves and they're ready tomake a difference.
What do they need to know?
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Well, I think the first thing to think about is I
think you kind of touched on itthe people who exist in our
prisons are people just like youand I.
They're people who went leftwhen they should have gone right
.
Circumstances in their life ledto whatever decisions they made
on the worst days of their life.
And so I always say do you wantto be judged for the worst
(08:35):
decisions you made on the worstday of your life?
Say you know, in fulltransparency, full honesty, that
we have never gotten behind thewheel after one too many, or
when we were in college orwherever we were, we didn't do X
, y or Z that could haveresulted us in us ending up
there.
So that's the first thing, isjust recognizing that these are
(08:57):
people that, by virtue ofwhatever circumstance, made some
decisions that resulted in thembeing there.
But then it's about whathappens when you're there.
How do people do their time, andwe can be led to believe that
what we see on TV and in themovies is what's really
happening in our prisons.
And certainly in some pockets,in some places perhaps, yes, but
(09:20):
in general it's people who havefound themselves in a spot and
when they got there theyrealized I need to figure out
how to have a better life, Ineed to do something different
if I'm going to survive, and sothat's essentially what the
foundation does is we provideeverybody with that opportunity,
a platform on which they canrebuild their lives, and it's
(09:42):
we've developed a really, reallycomprehensive program that
addresses the entire human being.
Right, like people want to saywords like comprehensive and
holistic and wrap around and Idon't know what the exact word
to describe it is I say right,like we're all people and we're
a complete person, and we helpthe women get right in all
(10:04):
aspects physically, mentally,spiritually, emotionally,
vocationally, educationally andfinancially.
And right.
So the program is built aroundall of these elements that
enable a person to really usetheir time, to come out of
prison a better person than theywere when they went in.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
So I know you've done some work with training the
foundation, with the assessmentson emotional intelligence.
You want to kind of add to that.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yeah, we had a very fun day when I came down to the
office with all of the team andwe went through the emotional
intelligence training and wentthrough the certification
process.
We utilized the TTI, successInsights Emotional Intelligence.
They were gracious enough todonate the assessments to the
foundation, but it really kindof creates the number one thing
(10:56):
that I think can help them getto that next space, which is the
self-awareness, and so helpingan individual whether it's
somebody that's incarcerated orworking with a very successful
CEO in an organization theystill need to have that
self-awareness andself-regulation, and sometimes
we're aware of what's going onbut we can't regulate it back.
And so how, what kind ofresults are you seeing with the
(11:18):
girls that have gone through theemotional intelligence
assessment, and kind of are they?
Yeah, it's it's incredible.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
So emotional intelligence, the whole idea
stems from years ago.
My boss told me like oh, youneed to develop yourself, your
emotional intelligence and Iwent the heck does that mean and
how does one go about doingthat?
And so when I was tasked withstarting the foundation and
developing curriculum to helpthe women prepare, I thought,
(11:46):
okay, well, emotionalintelligence how do we teach it?
And fortunately, you know,since the decades ago when I got
that advice, lots of peoplehave figured out what it is and
how to talk about it and how todevelop it.
And so emotional intelligence ispart of our core curriculum.
And so you were talking aboutwhat can businesses expect from
hiring our women?
(12:07):
Like, from day one we start onyou know personality types, your
personal core values, feedback,and all you could do was go.
I can't understand that.
That's not true.
I don't believe them.
(12:27):
Right, I'm not that person.
So, teaching people how toreceive feedback, but also how
to effectively give it, not justto people beneath them but to
peers, and give feedback to yourboss and be honest and
transparent, so reallydeveloping those essential
skills that I think are reallycritical at work, because we can
(12:48):
teach people job skills, that'sthe easy part.
The vocational part is easy.
People go to prison all thetime and learn vocational skills
.
You can get college degrees,you can get HVAC, you can get
plumbing, you can get all kindsof trades and certificates to do
to do jobs, but without theessential skills, without
(13:10):
emotional intelligence andcritical thinking and
communication skills and publicspeaking skills, the ability to
clearly articulate an idea or athought in a meaningful manner,
right, or even the ability todeescalate a heated situation.
So we focus on that's like thefirst semester of everything
that we do is to help peoplelike develop those essential
(13:33):
human skills that so many of usare lacking.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Okay, the saying goes to you hire for skills and fire
for attitude.
And the attitude is a big pieceand it's a choice.
Attitude's a choice.
The hard skills are things thatyou have to kind of learn and
kind of understand that.
But it's the hard skills versusthe people skills, and the
people skills kind of get you tothat next level.
The hard skills get you in adoor and so, where you can kind
of understand that, the biggest,bigger difference it makes.
(13:59):
One of the things additionallywith EQ is one negative event
can affect your decision-makingability for up to four hours on
average, and so think abouthaving someone road rage or
something like that.
That's that simple.
And now you're making poordecisions behind the wheel or
you walk into a negative emailin the office and you're like
(14:21):
frustrated the rest of themorning and those kinds of
things.
So that's such a powerful toolto kind of work through.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Well, and that's what it's amazing to watch the light
bulbs go off when we teach theemotional intelligence.
And then they get their reportand they work with their manager
on their assessment because ittells them these are the things
that I need, and watching howthey just bloom.
And it is one of the things youknow at end of program that
people say, like emotionalintelligence was just a biggie
(14:49):
for me, Like because it does.
It helps them regulate theiremotions and they didn't get
there because they were good atregulating emotions and reacting
effectively in, you know, roughsituations.
So yeah, it's such a greatpiece of the program.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, and you know it's interesting because so many
times, like with assessmentsright, there are certain
assessments where you're kind ofhardwired, you are who you are,
but with the emotionalintelligence it is something
that can be developed right.
So no matter where they arewhen they're starting, they,
like you said, like there's todo some things like that where
they can continue to grow.
It kind of leads me to thetopic of employee engagement,
right, every organization outthere struggles with it.
(15:25):
You know some more than others.
Different times it might bemore difficult than others, but
can you just give me someexamples or even just your
thoughts in general on howengaged and committed and loyal
these women are when they takeemployment?
I know some of the stats areunbelievable as far as their
retention and staying in notonly with one company but within
(15:46):
a specific job in a company.
So can you talk to that alittle bit, based on the
programming?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Yeah.
So let's talk just a little bithigh-level stats about the
results that we've been able toachieve since we started the
program in 2020.
We've had 985 women go throughthe program.
I'm really excited because nextweek we will enroll number
1,000.
So, yeah, we're really excited645 women have transitioned back
(16:11):
into the community and theresults that they're realizing
are just incredible.
So 94% of them have beenemployed within 45 days, average
starting salary of about$40,000 a year, but,
specifically to your point, likethe commitment that they have
when they get into what we calla B job.
(16:31):
So, for perspective, we talk alot about ABC jobs and a job is
like look, you got to get out,you got to get a job, you got to
get money coming in.
Your responsibility when youget there is to show up to
deliver, to demonstrate rightand get a raise, get an increase
, get promoted or get stableenough that you can now go out
(16:53):
and find that B job, a betterjob.
And so a better job is definedas generally anything that's
$40,000 a year or more that youcan see a pathway to what your
next stage is in that job.
So it's not working at TacoBell thinking you're going to
get the team lead job, but it's,you know it's a pathway.
And then, when you get intothat better job, now it's time
(17:14):
to start to continue theinvestment in yourself, continue
to learn, continue to grow, getsome schooling so that you can
now progress it to your careerjob, what is your career
aspirations?
And so the women who, once theyland in what we define as a B
job, their average tenure rightnow is about 540 days, so about
(17:37):
18 months, and considering therunway that we're talking about
is pretty short.
But these are entry-level,mid-entry-level positions and
that's the space where mostcompanies are having the hardest
time retaining people, theirhardest time attracting people
and the hardest time retainingpeople in those jobs, and so we
(17:59):
have a pool of talent I'mgraduating right now about 300
women a year who are eager forthese jobs, and when they get
there, they are incredibly loyaland dedicated, because one of
the things I can tell you fromexperience is that the only
worst thing worse than tellingsomebody you've been to prison
(18:20):
right, that there's nothingworse than having to test so you
don't want to the only thingworse than going to prison is
actually having to tell somebodyyou've been there, there you go
Tongue tied a couple timestoday not usual.
Yeah.
So if you could imagine whenyou come out of prison you don't
exactly want to run aroundtelling everybody hey, I went to
prison, so once you get the joband you've gone through the
process of explaining it andsomebody has said, hey, I'll
(18:42):
give you a chance, I'll give youan opportunity.
You really want to get in thereand prove yourself.
And Like, you really want toget in there and prove yourself
and and you don't want to haveto leave and go repeat the cycle
again, and so people tend tostay incredibly loyal.
Televerti, the for profitbusiness, is a phenomenal
example.
I mean, the average tenure ofthe women who go to work at
(19:02):
Televerti after incarceration issomething like eight and a half
years.
I mean, we just love to stickaround like eight and a half
years.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I mean, we, we just love to stick around.
Well, and I think too, justwhen you think about 18 months,
right In in a single positionwithin an organization, the
competition for those roles aregoing to be new grads coming out
of high, coming out of college,and you know they're, they're
coming in, it's their first jobout of college, they're trying
to make that mark for themselves.
Um, you know they're in thatsame range, but within six
(19:31):
months they're like where's mypromotion?
I'm ready, like let's go next.
And so it's constantly as likea manager and a leader of like
okay, hold on, like let'sthrottle back, let's do this,
let's do that, and like takingthem through a path, whereas the
engagement with these women andstaying in and you know, kind
of leaning into that positionand having the patience and the
emotional intelligence and allthe things that they're taught
(19:52):
through their programming, Ithink is just monumentally
beneficial to organizations.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Yeah Well and it's even the jobs you know, cause
they, the jobs that they'll takeand want and be thrilled with,
are the ones the college kidswon't touch.
And they're not likely to be 18months in going.
So when am I going to be adirector Right?
When do I get my VP title?
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Yes, yeah, everybody just wants to check a box and
move to the next step.
Yeah, and it's just not thatsimple.
What do you find?
How does the experience thatthey bring and some of them
don't have a lot of experience,some of them probably have a ton
of experience how does thatplay into the different types of
jobs that they can get?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Well, I think that does play a lot into it, right?
So some of the women that havemore experience can land into
higher level inside sales or ITpositions, where the ones that
don't have experience but havedone all the training they're
more likely coming into thosecustomer service entry level
inside sales roles.
(20:53):
The space where we are reallystruggling to get people
positions, which is kind ofbaffles me, is in the IT space.
So these women are gettingcertified from Cisco and Google
in IT networking, cybersecurity,project management, and it's
(21:13):
really hard to get somebody totake a chance.
They have all the credentialsin the world and it's hard to
get anybody to take a chance onthem without actually experience
, right?
So it's the old adage like howdo you get experience if you
don't you know, and so that webump into that a lot.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
So, kind of just thinking through all the
different experiences you've hadsince starting the foundation,
can you pull maybe a personalstory that really embodies the
success of the work that you'redoing inside the foundation and
with the women?
I'm sure you have several, Iknow.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
There's so many of the women with such great
stories Jeez, it's always hardto pick one, I guess.
Probably.
I mean one of my favorites isprobably Ashley.
And Ashley was in the very,very first cohort of our
workforce development programand she's probably tired of me
(22:06):
telling this story, but she hadbeen sentenced to 10 years in
prison.
She was at eight years and shehad done no programming
whatsoever and we were launchingthis new program, looking for
15 people to follow me on thisvision that I had to go build
this workforce developmentprogram and who was going to be
(22:27):
brave enough to follow along.
And she signed up for theprogram only because her
counselor or prison boss kind oftold her that she should do it.
And day one came and she showedup at the door and kind of
knocked on the door and said youknow, hey, I need to talk to
you.
(22:47):
And she's like I'm not going topartake in the program.
And I was like, well, what doyou mean?
And she's like, well, I'mreally busy.
I'm like I look, kind of lookaround look around the prison.
I'm looking at her in her shortsand her shower shoes and I'm
like you're really busy, really.
What do you got going on?
And she's like, well, you know,I'm going home in a couple
months and I just I have a lotto do.
(23:09):
And I'm like, oh, like well,what do you got to do?
Well, I'm planning, and youknow, and I'm thinking about
what I'm going to do, and so Ijust I just have a lot going on.
I go, okay, well, are you sure?
Like, are you sure you're notscared?
Because I understand if you'rescared, because this kind of
seems like a lot.
No, I'm not scared.
She's like I'm just busy.
So she stomps off and I'm like,okay.
(23:31):
And so week goes by and I keeppassing her every day, I like
walk by and she looks at me, andso then, finally, about the end
of the first week, she comes upand she's like I think I made a
mistake.
So when you do the next class,she's like I'll, I'll enroll in
the next class.
I'm like, oh, well, you knowwhat?
(23:56):
We still have a desk availableif you want.
Like, come see me on Monday andlet's talk about it.
And so she came on Monday andthe other girls that had been
there for a week.
I'm like, okay, this is likeSurvivor, they're going to vote
you on or off.
And the other girl said, well,she can stay.
And yeah.
So she goes through program.
She insists that she doesn'tlike to learn I'm a terrible
student, I can't learn anything.
She starts her Arizona StateUniversity classes so all the
women do six credits from ASUand communications Starts the
(24:18):
classes and realized that she'slike falling in love with
learning and she can't getenough of it.
And so she goes through thewhole six-month program and
realizes that she is notprepared to go home, that her
plans for where she was going togo home to were not safe and
not healthy, because we do a lotof work on like boundaries and
what are your plans and you knowwhat are you going to do for
(24:40):
the future.
And she goes into her counselorand she waives her parole and
makes a decision to stay inprison for another year.
Like that's stunning to thinkabout.
And she just basically said Ineed to stay here so I can learn
more skills and really kind ofdevelop myself to be prepared to
(25:01):
go out and do the right thing.
And so she hired on at Telverde, the for-profit company, and
then ultimately hired on at thefoundation as a project
coordinator for-profit companyand then ultimately hired on at
the foundation as a projectcoordinator.
One of my very first hires shewas released on Valentine's Day
and what I love about the storyabout being released on
Valentine's Day is she went toprison behind some really bad,
dysfunctional relationshipsbecause she was highly
(25:25):
codependent and all of thosethings that we can be.
And she was released onValentine's Day and she said you
know, I was released and Ididn't need anybody and I didn't
need anybody to need me.
And she started her role at theTel Aviv Foundation two weeks
later as a program specialistand since that time it's now
(25:48):
been 18 months a little over 18months.
She has enrolled at ArizonaState University, she's
completed her project managementcertification, she's been
promoted and she has reunitedwith her children and just
really launched a beautiful lifebetter than she, like she says,
(26:11):
better than I ever imaginedpossible, even before I went to
prison.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I think what's so beautiful about that story is
that she achieved a level offreedom that nobody else can
provide her and nobody else cantake away from her, you know,
through being incarcerated andgoing through programming and
all of that, and was able tocome out with that type of
feeling and perspective and justconfidence.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Yeah Well, it's because it's so many things
right.
It's the personal independence,financial independence, it's
mental independence, there's somany things which is everything
that we do is built on thisconcept of self-efficacy and for
employers, I think,self-efficacy for individuals,
self-efficacy and for employers,like, I think, self-efficacy
for individuals, self-efficacyis incredible, but it's such a
(26:56):
great gift for employers if yourfolks have self-efficacy,
because it's basically whensomebody realizes that, hey, you
know what, I can learnsomething new, I'm capable of
learning, and then they willinvest the time and effort and
the commitment and thepersistence to actually learn it
(27:16):
and then apply it and put it towork and achieve.
On the other side, so it's like, oh, maybe I could, oh, yes, I
can, and oh, by golly I will,and then to keep repeating that
cycle over and over, and so itcreates this drive of always
wanting to do more and try more.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
So we've talked a lot about the purpose, but as a
successful business leader, howdo you balance the social impact
with the profitability andkeeping the business growing and
thriving as you have?
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah well, the beauty of nonprofit.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Or the funding balance, the funding right, the
beauty of nonprofit Like.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
the first thing that I learned is nonprofit does not
mean no revenue.
I always laugh when people say Iwant to start a nonprofit.
I'm like, oh, it's not for thefaint of heart, it is.
Look, it's a constant.
And as somebody who didn't comeinto the nonprofit world with
any experience in nonprofit, Ithink the first thing that I
(28:16):
learned is that, you know, I hada sales and marketing
background and, like all of asudden, now my job was to sell
something that had no tangible.
It's just about, you know, theimpact and the power that we're
having and so, um, you know thebalances is spending the time
and finding all of the rightgrants and resources and funders
that support this type of work.
(28:37):
So there is that that issomething that's out there, but
it's a lot of work and it'shighly competitive.
But we are.
You know, part of the way thatwe do this is through corporate
sponsorships.
So companies that recognizethat they have a need for talent
(28:57):
and are willing to make aninvestment or, you know, get
involved in creating their ownwhat I call prison to workforce
pipelines.
So you've got a talent gap andI have highly motivated and
dedicated people that can helpyou solve that problem.
Our workforce developmentprogram is designed in such a
(29:19):
way that we can.
The curriculum.
The second semester of theircurriculum is interchangeable,
so that we can actually preparepeople for companies' very
specific in-demand jobs, so thatthey are walking out job-ready
to walk into your organizationand start to be productive from
day one.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I think that that's something.
Obviously, businesses andindividuals are always deciding
where to give the gifts thatthey're prepared to give in any
particular year, but I just feellike when, definitely biased,
but I feel like with thefoundation it's, it's not just
giving.
There are so many differentways in where organizations can
(30:01):
have a very, very strong return.
They can solve needs.
There are tax benefits tohiring formerly incarcerated
individuals, and so it's yes,there is the cause and the
donations and all of that thatobviously makes the foundation
go around.
But there are those servicesfor placement and training and
(30:23):
development.
I mean, that's obviously what wedo, right Constantly coaching
and developing employees,teaching them emotional
intelligence, giving them theirjob skills, kind of pulling them
back and saying like, hey,let's pause and here's a career
path and this is what we want todo.
You're literally doing all ofthat work for these
organizations and in thosecorporate sponsorships, if
(30:45):
there's a need that anyone hasout there for a specific skill
set with employees, as Michellewas saying, they can change out
that curriculum, and soliterally people can be being
trained while they're in prison,before they're on your payroll,
and then move into theorganization and be ready to
start being productive andcontribute, and they're going to
(31:06):
be extraordinarily loyal too.
So I mean it really does solvea need both directions.
It's a two-way street with thework that companies can do with
the foundation, and I think thatthat's unique and special about
the work you're doingAbsolutely Well and it's
certainly more valuable thanjust giving right, of course,
and I shouldn't say that wegraciously accept donations of
(31:28):
all sizes and shapes and forms.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
However, this is a solution to a business problem,
and that is always how I viewedthe work that we're doing is
this is a societal problem andit's a business problem, and
it's a business problem, andthat is always how I viewed the
work that we're doing is this isa this is a societal problem
and it's a business problem andit's a people problem, and I
believe that when, when we canbring the three together, um, we
can really have lasting impacton people's lives, on people, on
our communities, um, and on ourworkplaces.
(31:53):
I mean it's what it, it's whatmatters.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Well, it goes back to the conscious capitalism and
we're sitting in Mac six,obviously, where the chapter is.
But we've all done work in thatspace and this is like a true
conscious capitalism movement,every single person.
It's good for all stakeholdersinvolved and community,
obviously, the individuals, thecompany, the vendors, just all
(32:17):
around.
It makes sense.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Yeah, I mean, and when you think about conscious
capitalism and one of the wordsthat tends to come to mind, at
least for me, is the empathy,and that ties back to the
emotional intelligence again,which, in the categories in the
TTI assessment, it's socialawareness.
It's like how aware am I of howmy actions and things are
impacting other people?
And I mean that makes a hugedifference in terms of
communication and presentingyourself in a job interview and
(32:44):
all of the pieces that peoplehave to go through as they make
transitions in their life.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Can you talk a little bit too, as Rick was mentioning
earlier, kind of balancing thepurpose and the mission of the
foundation with the businessside of it?
You and your team, you run itlike a business and you're in
and your senior team needs yourstrategic planning.
So what have been some of thosestrategies to make sure that
the foundation is successful,that you've pulled over from
that for-profit side?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Yeah, it's an interesting question, Because
when I was asked to do this, myimmediate response was I know
nothing about running anonprofit, I don't want to do
this, I don't know how to dothis.
And my boss said, good, go runit like a business.
And I was like probably thebest piece of advice anybody
ever gave me, because Iimmediately just sat down and
said, okay, build a businessplan.
(33:32):
Values, what's our three-yearstrategic plan?
What's our one-year tactics?
Goals, strategies and tacticsLike the same exact framework
that I employed, you know, whenI was, you know, running the
for-profit side of the businesswas.
I just basically applied thoseprinciples to what we do, and
it's I mean, it's the basics ofwhat you do in business.
(33:54):
In fact, I'm getting ready hereat Mac6.
Two weeks from now, we've gotthe conference room reserved
where we'll be doing our 2025strategic planning session, and
it's a matter of you know.
We know what our long-term goalis, and our long-term goal is,
you know, now it's two moreyears out and that's to be
(34:14):
serving 1,000 people a year, andyou know.
Then there's the four differentpillars that we have to achieve
to get those, and I thinkprobably the biggest one that is
relevant to anybody is, youknow, really diversifying your
revenue streams.
Right, I can't be 100% ongovernment grants, because
(34:36):
governments change, you know,and with the changes in
leadership can be changes inpriorities which then trickle
down to changes in funding.
So can't be ever dependent onone single customer, right, we
all know that in business.
So just really diversifyingthose revenue streams.
And then, of course, the samething, right, Processes, right,
(34:58):
Streamlining our processes,operations.
So how are we as efficient aspossible so that we can achieve
as much as we can with the leastamount of expense?
Because that is an unfortunateum side of the nonprofit world
is that you are expected to doeverything with less than you
know, 15%, uh, administrativeoverhead costs.
So it makes it really hard.
(35:19):
They expect you to pay peopleterribly, but I refuse to do
that.
So hence the reason whydiversifying revenue is so
important.
And then, really, employeeengagement and governance.
So it's the same coreprinciples that you apply to any
business.
And just staying true to whatthe mission is, I think is
(35:40):
probably the key thing is wetalk a lot about swim lanes in
business and what is the mission?
You have your mission statementand always going back to how
does this serve the mission andstaying focused right, Because
we can't be everything toeverybody.
So this is what our vision is.
We're an employment first modeland we believe that people
(36:02):
succeed when we empower them tohave everything they need to get
out of prison and havesuccessful and meaningful and
rewarding careers.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Awesome.
So what's next for thefoundation?
Speaker 3 (36:15):
What's next for the foundation?
As I said, our goal right nowis to be serving 1,000 people a
year.
We're about halfway there.
With the newest agreement thatwe just will do five, we're
expecting to serve about 525people in 2025.
That's a good number.
I just realized that because Ijust did the calculations
(36:35):
yesterday.
I'm like oh, it's 525.
How convenient.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
That is going to come up everywhere in Michelle's
marketing, that sales andmarketing background is going to
play on it for sure.
25 and 25.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Yes, that's exactly right.
So donate $25, 25,000, 2,500,because we're going to do 25 and
25.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
She's going to grab her phone and start texting
somebody.
The new marketing plan.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Yeah, so yeah, and so then it's a matter of the where
are we going?
Right now we are proactivelysetting up operations in Florida
.
We're going to start a littlepilot in Florida.
We're going to kind of try toget our way in much the way we
(37:17):
got our way in here in Arizona,small and subtle Miami.
We'll have a big event theresecond week of December
opportunities to actually comeand see the prison and get
involved and be on the groundfloor of the investment and the
development of this program.
Place that we're going to go?
(37:43):
Illinois, idaho, north Dakota,ohio there's a lot of places on
my radar.
It's a matter of what states,what organizations are committed
to making a difference in thelives of the folks that are
coming out of prison and findingways to partner with them.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
So back to the golf tournament.
A couple of people that playedwith us in the golf tournament
didn't really know a lot aboutit, but as we were having
conversations on the course andthen having the all of your
women on the course at thedifferent holes telling their
stories and things is alwaysgreat.
But how to?
How to companies?
How can they get more involved?
If they want to potentiallyhire, what can they do to?
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Well, the easiest way to get involved is to connect
with me.
Linkedin I am actually somebody.
If you connect with me onLinkedIn and you send me a
personal message, I will answeryour message.
I will connect with you.
I will meet with you personally.
I think relationships are themost important piece of the game
.
Personally, I thinkrelationships are the most
(38:42):
important piece of the game, andso you can find me on LinkedIn,
which is just Michelle with twoL's Sirocco, c-i-r-o-c-c-o.
That's an easy way.
Or, of course, our website,which is televityfoundationorg.
If you go to the website andyou fill out a thing, somebody
will contact you within 24 hoursand see how we can partner with
you.
Or if you'd like to getinvolved in volunteering or you
(39:04):
just want to know more about ourprograms, we love to share the
stories and I would tell youcandidly, my favorite thing to
do is to take people to prison.
So if you are really interestedin learning more and you'd like
to actually get a sense forespecially from an employment
standpoint, because sometimesit's hard the media has taught
(39:24):
us to think about what exists inour prisons in a certain way,
and so to really like changethat perspective.
That's why I say nothing makesme happier than to take people
to prison, because, at the veryleast, when you go there, you
realize it's not what youexpected, and it helps to break
down the stigmas associated withincarceration, and so I would
(39:47):
encourage anybody who isinterested in getting involved
in our work to reach out and getinvolved in that way.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
Don't sneak your cell phone in like Ashley did.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Don't say that on the radio.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
I'm going to be having a different level of
interaction with law enforcementafter that.
So, yeah, and again, just tokind of amplify the point as we
close up here, you know, ifyou're an employer who is
needing a solve for yourworkforce development and
employment options, it's reallya great place to start.
Have a conversation, go havecoffee with Michelle or one of
(40:22):
the team members and just youknow, see what's out there.
It just it really makes adifference.
Personally, my entireperspective has changed with
working with the foundation, soI'm forever grateful for that
and it's just amazing.
Women, amazing stories and a lotof good work has happened and a
lot of work needs to stillhappen and businesses need this.
(40:44):
You know we talked withbusinesses every single day that
are looking for people who wantto work and want to make a
difference and really want to,you know, get in and help a
company grow, and there is apool of talent available,
graduating each and every year,so definitely tap into them.
But thank you so much for beinghere today.
We really appreciate your timeand all the work that you're
(41:04):
doing.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Thank you, I do, actually.
Can I take one more comment,because it occurred to me just
this moment that I shared a lotof statistics with you about how
many people have been throughour program and how many people
have come back into thecommunity, and I also shared
with you the high rates ofrecidivism and how many people
go back to prison.
And what I didn't share withyou was the ultimate impact of
(41:25):
our program.
So, for those 645 women thathave transitioned back into the
community over the past four anda half years, only three people
have gone back to prison.
So less than 1% recidivism ratecompared to national averages
that range from 20 to 80%.
So it's a program that worksbecause, as I mentioned,
(41:49):
employment is the biggestpredictor and the women are able
to come out and get into goodjobs and stay there, rebuild
their lives, rebuild theirfamilies and just stay out of
prison forever.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
And just as many children have been impacted by
that too.
Right, that kind of the numbergoes kind of hand in hand.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Yeah, we talk about the ripple effect.
So that's 60% of women inprison have children under the
age of 18.
And so for our women, for the645 women that have come home,
there are 1,217 children thatare experiencing the positive
benefit of having their mom comehome and stay home and really
(42:27):
just breaking those generationalcycles of poverty and
incarceration.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Back to the impact.
It impacts us all ourcommunities, our work, our
companies, our hearts.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
My pleasure.
Thank you for having me ourhearts.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
So thank you so much for being here my pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Thanks for tuning in to theConfidence Curve.
We hope today's episode leftyou inspired and ready to
embrace your journey confidently.
Remember whether you're leadinga team, growing your business
or pursuing personal growth,each step forward builds your
curve.
If you enjoyed today'sconversation, don't forget to
(43:03):
subscribe, share and leave us areview.
For more insights and resources, visit us at apexgtscom.
Until next time, keep climbingthe curve.
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