July 7, 2025 • 41 mins
Hungarian flutist Ágnes Vass speaks about her work as Co-Principal Flutist of the Bremerhaven Philharmonic Orchestra, alongside being a certified yoga teacher and meditation and breathwork instructor. Also the creator of Body Mind Music Lab, her diverse passions and skills combine art and mindfulness, enriching both her musical practice and her personal development.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Hello and welcome back to another episode of The Conscious
Artist, a safe space for conversations around mental
health awareness for musicians, artists, and all human beings.
I am your host, Pallavi Mahidera, and I'm thrilled that
you are joining us today. I love the community we have
developed together through this show and I'm committed to
continuing to give a platform for voices and stories to be
(00:26):
shared. When we allow others and
ourselves to feel seen and heard, we create much needed
change in this industry and in this world.
So thank you for supporting thiscommunity.
Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts
and let's get started. My guest today is a Hungarian
(00:52):
flutist, currently serving as a Co Principal Flutist of the
Brimerhoven Philharmonic Orchestra.
But the main reason I wanted to chat with her today is for her
endless curiosity and broad range of interests.
In addition to being a performing artist, in the past
few years she has been working as a certified yoga teacher and
meditation and breath work instructor.
(01:13):
Her diverse passions and skills combine art and mindfulness,
enriching both her musical practice and her personal
development. Please join me in welcoming
Agnes Bosch to the conscious Artist.
Agnes, I'm delighted to have youhere with us today.
Thank you very much. What a nice introduction.
Thank you. Well, it is my pleasure and I'm
really looking forward to our conversation.
(01:35):
I love that more and more artists are searching for a more
balanced and wholesome approach to life, you know, seeking
hobbies and sometimes even parallel careers to sort of
balance out the stresses and thepressures of what it takes to be
quote UN quote, successful in this world.
And actually not just in the artistic world.
(01:56):
We see so many people, for example, in finance that one day
decide to, you know, up and quittheir jobs.
They're very high pressure jobs.And suddenly they've decided to
become a chef or a yoga instructor or a Wellness coach.
And I think it's a pretty big indication that society does not
focus enough on mental and physical well-being.
(02:17):
And I honestly feel very proud that, like you and so many
others are turning to the practice of yoga, which is an
ancient Indian practice of connecting and balancing the
mind, body and soul. And so I would love to know what
drew you to the world of yoga and your decision to become a
certified instructor. OK.
(02:38):
Yes, so I agree with all the things you said.
And I have to say my first encounter with yoga was at a
very early age, almost like first encounter with flute.
I had my first yoga lesson ever when I was 10 years old.
We were living in Hungary and I had some pain in my belly and I
(03:00):
don't know how and why, but my mom took me to a yoga class and
it was not a fashion back then. But still somehow I started the
connection there and from that moment on, it was always kind of
part of my life. The way I I started the
(03:21):
education. It was as a bit of a special
corner of yoga because I learnedabout Ashtanga yoga maybe three
years ago. Then I discovered something I
didn't knew before and then I knew like at some point it's
helping me so much. It's such an intense thing to do
and it helps me so much mentallyto focus, to deal with
(03:44):
difficulties, to be physically strong, really like as if you do
strength training or I don't know.
So I, I felt such a strength coming from that, that at that
point I was checking where can Ido an education in this yoga
transition? And then I found the school in
Bremen and there I did my first education and currently I'm
(04:09):
continuing I'm in the advanced education, which I'm doing in
Hamburg. But that's incredible.
It's no, but it's, I mean, it's new in terms of, I guess, you
know, doing the training, but yoga is something that's been a
part of your life since you werelittle.
And that's not so common, I would say, in the West.
(04:30):
And that's really, really beautiful that it was something
that you were introduced to at such a young age.
Yeah, So I don't know how, but I'm really lucky in this sense.
Also, my aunt, the sister of my mom, became a yoga teacher back
then pretty soon. And she was for a long time one
(04:51):
of the owners of one of the biggest schools of yoga in
Budapest. And then she decided to move to
the countryside and start a new school there.
So there is a lot of mindfulnessand yoga tradition in my family.
It's it's. It's pretty strange, I know.
That's beautiful. We need more of that, yeah.
(05:11):
Yeah, also in the older generation and my mom is a
teacher for school kids, like smaller kids until the age of
14. And she also as a second
profession, she was already, I don't know, 55 or something like
this when she entered her first yoga education.
And now she's also a teacher forYoga for Kids.
(05:33):
That's beautiful. So there's a lot in the family.
But I think it's so important and so necessary as, as I said,
you know, as artists, and we're not the only ones, but as
artists, we have to deal with a lot of pressure, whether it's
internal and self-imposed pressure or it's external
pressure through jobs, through colleagues, through
(05:54):
competitions, if you're in school, There's so much.
And we don't always know or learn.
We're not taught how to manage those emotions.
We're not taught how to balance and take care of ourselves in a
healthy way so that we don't burnout, so that we don't get
physical injuries, so that we don't become depressed or have
crippling anxiety. This is becoming more and more
(06:17):
of a staple in people's lives that they are seeking balance.
They are seeking mental and physical well-being along with
whatever success they are searching for in their careers.
Exactly, and and also what you say makes me think of this topic
of internal and external pressure.
(06:39):
I think that after our education, what we had as a
child or young professional, it also takes such a long time to
really be able to separate what is internal and what is external
pressure. Because a lot of things we get
by our teachers or by the schoolsystem or competition system or
(07:01):
audition system and we internalize that pressure.
So what I found through yoga, for example, also to go back
through really what is what I really want, what is my
emotional connection to flute playing or music playing, which
is not connected to if I win an audition or not, or if I am in
(07:25):
this orchestra or test orchestra, you know, like this,
this connection to the music without the influence of the
external world, like this very intimate connection, which is
for all of us. It's why we, we started this
probably, I mean, I don't think that any one of us started at
(07:45):
the age of 4 because we wanted to win a competition.
We most most likely started because we had fun or we loved
it or music was just speaking tous like nothing else.
And that's what we actually should like, really take care of
(08:06):
the older we get also. I couldn't agree more.
For me, my journey into letting go or trying to let go of, you
know, all the external pressure and external noise was through
therapy. And I've talked about this a lot
of my podcast, but going to therapy and actually like doing
(08:26):
the psychological analysis. I mean, I am very much of an
overthinker. So it was like.
It makes you know. Me going to therapy, like with
my notebook, what's my homework for this week?
What do I need to analyze this week?
But but it really helped becauseit was like, little by little
unlearning so much of what I thought I had to be.
(08:49):
Yeah. What I thought I was supposed to
be or what I was supposed to think or how I was supposed to
play or what I'm supposed to do.And, you know, just.
I, I mean, I don't know what. I'm curious to know what you
think. But I feel like it's also, part
of it is also just simply getting older and, you know,
being well into my 30s. I'm just like, I don't care
anymore. Like you want to you, you don't
(09:11):
like what I'm doing. That's cool.
You live your life. I'll live mine.
I'm OK with that. Yeah, but it's not so easy.
I think this comes, I mean, yeah, two topics.
Like I also did a lot of I mean,I consulting or therapy or
whatever you call it when I, I had very different stages of
this. So for example, when I was
(09:32):
auditioning around 25 or at the age more or less 25, then I
started to realize that anxiety can really make my my
performance much worse. So I consulted a sports
psychologist back then from Hungary, and we did really like
(09:57):
very rational and very supportive exercises for the
mind for me to, you know, just stand there and play no matter
what. Can you tell me like what for
example were some of the exercises?
I'm really curious. So some main concepts which I
still remember because it's had,it has been more than 10 years,
let's admit. So one of these was like, we
(10:21):
made a plan for many weeks how I'm going to practice.
And she always spoke about, for example, if you're high like
professional sport man movement,then you don't need to have peak
performance all the days of the week.
So if you do like one or two really, really good trainings
(10:45):
per week, then it's good enough.And the rest of the day you have
to show up and maybe someday show up anyway, even if you are
deadly tired. Like do then 30% but do
something and then in a another day when you feel that your
energy is really high, then do your peak performance and and
(11:06):
just don't expect yourself to have the peak every day.
So that was new to me back then because I was struggling, you
know, just playing the things every day by heart and
everything without mistakes and every corner of crescendo,
diminuendo, click cleans. And you know, like when somebody
(11:29):
who's coaching like really successful competitors in
another field tells me like justto treat it as a normal life and
treat the day where you actuallyhave to play also like a normal
day, like an audition. Like the more normal you think
this day is, the higher probablyyour performance is going to be
(11:52):
because the more you think that you need to do the very, very
best that day, the more you can actually sabotage yourself.
But it depends on what field we are in.
Because I think when you actually need speed or something
like really adrenaline put directly into something, then it
can help. But for the flute playing, I
(12:15):
mean, yeah, too much adrenaline can actually destroy your breath
or or feel your body way too stiff or tense.
So for me was helpful to loosen up and also to see the the
period of preparation more in weeks where I see what do I want
(12:36):
to achieve in a week, Where do Iwant to be in one week and then
in two weeks and then in three weeks and see that some days are
like really good peak days and some days when they are just
normal that I can go to bed in peace and sleep.
Well, yeah, this is, this is so important because as musicians,
(12:56):
we often either taught or we think that it has to be quote,
UN quote, perfect every time, although there is no such thing
as perfect. And we often, you know, let's
say we're working on a passage and we finally get it.
And then we think, OK, now we'velearned it.
Now we have it in our fingers. Now we have it in our brain.
Now we have it in our voice, whatever, you know, the
(13:18):
instrument. And then the next day it sounds
like shit. And we feel like, well, what
what was the point of what we did?
Or we obviously didn't do it well enough, or we don't know
it. And then we start to question
and doubt our abilities or our ourselves as people.
You know, it just goes in this horrible negative spiral.
(13:40):
There's so much research with sports psychology in terms of
how it helps to benefit and enhance a performance.
And it's so applicable to music,but there's so little research.
And. Sort of interest in music
psychology or performing arts psychology, could we say?
(14:01):
Yeah, and one other thing, I, I mean, she was very experienced.
So it, it was for me so easy also to be led by somebody who
doesn't question every step she makes, you know.
So when we are alone practicing,then for me, since I'm also an
overthinker, let's say it's a lot of time, like is it really
(14:22):
good what I'm doing? Like is it or should I do it it
another way or like I have to practice really to make a
decision and stick to it or justlike be easy with if it's
different everyday. And back then when I was
auditioning at that age, it helped me so much that this
sports psychologist was very experienced in her field and she
(14:46):
was like, this is like this. You don't have to think I
thought about this for you, so you just do what I say.
It was also very helpful that she was really an expert of her
field and with her about the techniques, because actually
before I didn't say a concrete technique, she introduced me to
auto gain training. I don't know how this is in
(15:08):
English. Like when you go with your
attention, it's like a very detailed body scan.
You close your eyes and you go with your attention through your
whole body and then you relax. Like you relax your fingers,
your elbow, your arm, and you say yourself like, I relax and
(15:28):
that and that and that. And then with that sensation you
go again through your whole body.
You've tried to feel a sense of warmth and then a cool
sensation. So you exercise feeling
differently by conducting how you feel.
And it helped me a lot. I practiced this a lot back then
(15:50):
and also before auditions and before the nights of auditions,
like the night before to sleep better.
Basically, I was practicing thisevery day before I practiced
even even that. Yeah.
Because she also told me, like, look at the quality of your
practice, not just in the terms of results, but in the terms of
(16:10):
how you feel while you practice.Like in with what kind of
thoughts you have towards your practice.
Like if, if you feel like it's, it's an obligation that you have
to do it. If, if you fear that if you
don't do it, it's going to be bad.
So like, work on your feelings to have as much positive as
(16:35):
possible towards your practice. This was also something she gave
to me. This is so important.
And you know, I talk about this with my students.
I have conversations with my colleagues and my friends about
this today. But again, like you're telling
me this was something you were working on with the sports coach
10 years ago. This has been part of the sports
(16:58):
world for so long. And it we're just getting
started in the music world with this.
But it's I love what you said, Ilove what she told you,
basically allowing you to be able to sleep peacefully at
night, whatever you've done thatday.
That's so important that we are essentially kind to ourselves,
that we give leeway to the simple fact that we are human
(17:22):
beings and that it is going to be different every single day
and we're going to feel differently every single day.
And as an athlete, that's kind of a very obvious thing that
like, if you're tired, you can you can measure it.
You cannot run as fast or you cannot if you're playing
football, you cannot kick the ball as far maybe if you're if
(17:44):
you're extra tired, right? Whereas as musicians, we say,
yeah, OK, I'm tired, but I'm notreally, you know, exerting so
much physically. So I should be able to do XYZ.
And that's completely false because we are like athletes.
I mean, you as a wind player, you're literally using your
breath. If you're tired, of course
that's going to affect your breath control and your breath
(18:06):
capacity, right? Yeah, another concept I liked
very much this concept of willpower, because with in my
education or maybe my temperament or where I come
from, for me the answer to many,many things was willpower.
And she also told me and one other coach later on also told
(18:26):
me that we have to be careful with this because when I, for
example, I have an audition preparation phase like for weeks
or I don't know, three weeks or whatever, depending on where and
what repertoire. And in during this time, I use
willpower for everything. So I try to eat very clean.
(18:48):
I don't drink sugary or alcoholic things.
Or then I have a very disciplined schedule to practice
and all these kind of things. Then it can really take away the
lightness in you. And she was always like, you
know, willpower is not not the ultimate answer to everything in
the world. Like just also there you don't
(19:11):
have to do all the time 200%. You can just go back to 80 maybe
and another day better, but justbe all the time kind and very
forgiving to yourself if you have the tendency to use
willpower too much let's say. Of course, if you are super lazy
then you need some more. Willpower, but I guess it goes
(19:33):
back to balance, right? Exactly.
It's about balance. Yeah, I'm sensing some
similarities between US and whatyou're saying.
I also have that tendency to be very, very disciplined in
certain moments, but I take it to an extreme where then after
I'm done with everything, whether it's a really big
concert, a series of concerts ora tour, or in the past, you
(19:55):
know, many, many years ago when it was competitions.
And then I would need a break and I would just stop playing
for a couple weeks. And I never feel guilty about
taking time away from piano. Like when I have a holiday or
when I want to take my holiday or I don't have a piano, I never
feel guilty about it. And I think that's healthy.
I think it's a good thing. Perfect.
(20:15):
However, what I don't think is healthy is the need to
completely shut off that part ofmyself because I've gone too far
on the other side of like working too hard.
And so I'm still searching for amore balanced approach, sort of
long term. I think I've gotten better at
(20:36):
balancing my everyday life, my sort of day-to-day life.
I will listen to my body. If I feel more tired that day,
you know, I'll take it easy. Let's say I'm home, you know, in
between travels or whatever, maybe I feel really motivated
and I want to start my day with a workout because that's going
to give me a lot more energy than just going and sitting at
(20:57):
the piano, you know, stretching my body, exercising it, doing
strength training, doing Pilates, doing yoga, whatever it
is, moving my body, clearing my mind, getting my muscles warmed
up and limber. That's going to aid greatly in
the success of my practice that day.
And success means, you know, what is the quality of it?
(21:19):
Am I focused? Am I engaged?
You know, like, I love what you said earlier.
What is the quality of your practice?
What is your mindset in your practice?
Are you feeling like it's an obligation?
And yeah, some days it is. Some days I don't want to
practice and I really need to sit my butt down on the piano
bench and practice because I have to learn something or I
(21:40):
have to memorize something or I just need repetition.
Sometimes we need that, yes. And I would much rather be out
for a walk or, you know, hangingout with my friends or, you
know, I don't going to see a movie or something.
Of course, I think searching forthose sort of day-to-day
balances has become easier. I've gotten a lot better at like
listening to my body. What do I want to eat today?
(22:02):
Am I craving something warm and nourishing?
Am I craving something light like a salad?
Do I need more water? You know, am I dehydrated?
Do I need just like fruits and veggies, you know, those things
I think I'm getting better at. But.
I don't. Know, I still struggle with sort
of when I have a period of a lotof work, maybe a couple months
(22:23):
in a row where I'm just traveling nonstop and I'm just
going, going, going, going, going, going, going.
And then finally I have a momentto take a break.
And then of course I get sick because that's a moment when my
body is like, OK, it's time to stop now.
Like we're done. So.
I don't know what's been your experience with that.
I just have two thoughts on whatyou just said to your shut off
what you said that sometimes youjust have the need to take weeks
(22:47):
long breaks or so. I think I have a very yogic
thought to that because we say, I say in my yoga classes, I
mean, I learned like this and I heard it in many other yoga
classes too, that there is this famous final relaxation in every
yoga class and we use where you don't move at all and you don't
(23:10):
do anything. You just try to be like as
passive as you can and you just let yourself sink into the
ground. Shavasana.
It's Shavasana. Exactly.
And that's where we say that theeffects of what you did before
all the efforts you gave arrivesin the body then.
And then it's, it's actually, ifyou don't give yourself that
(23:32):
break of doing absolutely nothing, then you cannot really
process all the efforts you madebefore.
So for the brain it works too. And for the body also, I mean,
the muscles also grow during thebreak, not during the training.
So everything I, I think it's very, very healthy to look at
the learning process in these terms.
(23:54):
Like there is the, the period ofeffort and the period of a break
where all the effort can actually arrive on deeper levels
in US. That's how I see it.
So I would say don't feel bad about taking longer breaks.
So basically I can look at my entire life as my yoga practice
and then my my breaks as my three-week shavasana.
(24:16):
I like that. We'll go with that.
This is already balanced. I.
Like it we, we are all musicians, mostly emotional,
very like highly emotional people and also like we can
activate ourselves in a very special way.
I find. And I do think that it needs the
counterbalance. And it's also part of our
(24:39):
education that we feel kind of guilty when, Oh my God, I had
now one week break of the flute and I don't even miss it.
Oh my God. But actually we can get back
much more fresh and we can realize some progress much
better when we took a proper break, in my opinion.
(25:00):
But yeah, I know the first couple of days when we restart
practicing, it's always like, OK, my body needs that
continuity. I know.
But at this obligation that somedays it's OK to have an
obligation to practice. It's true.
But sometimes also we can examine our relation to that
(25:20):
obligation. So is it painful for me or it's
just an obligation and I'm relaxed about it?
Like I don't feel highly motivated but I'm fine with
having an obligation so I do it.But if I feel like extremely lot
of resistance, then what is it right?
Like, can I solve it somehow or am I going to practice against
(25:43):
that resistance? That's a tricky thing.
Sometimes it doesn't have, but yeah, every day is so different.
Yes, I totally agree with that. And like the thing of
obligation. It's very interesting because
it's like something that I've been really working on over
these last couple years. I saw a post on Instagram by a
therapist that I follow and she said I reposted it on my story
(26:07):
actually and she said if it's not a hell yes it's a no.
I saw it Thea. Yeah.
And what I like about that is essentially, are we truly both
engaged and motivated and excited?
Are we really wanting to do the thing that we are doing?
And there are going to be circumstances like doing taxes,
(26:29):
for example, where no one probably wants to do their taxes
unless you're a tax accountant. But like, we have to do it.
And sometimes those things will be there.
We will have certain obligationsin life that we have to just
sort of like sit and bear it anddo it.
But when it becomes a thing of like internal conflict, let's
say we said yes to playing a certain certain concert or a
(26:54):
certain piece or doing somethingthat we feel this like internal
resistance against, then yes. I think we do need to examine,
are we overextending ourselves? Did we say yes to something
because we felt obligated to sayyes?
Because if we said no, maybe they won't call us again.
(27:14):
Or maybe we said yes because we want to do it.
But actually, we don't have the physical or mental or emotional
capacity to do more than we're already doing.
And I think those are the placeswhere we can like, listen to our
body, listen to ourselves, kind of re examine what we're feeling
in that moment, right? Yes.
And if I listen to this now and I can lead the topic over to my
(27:39):
job, which is playing in orchestra, I think that this is
something what you kind of have to accept if you work in an
orchestra that it's not going tobe all the time like I want to
play this piece or I want to play that day and not that day.
You know, it's there is a lot ofthings you have to accept
(28:02):
because you said yes to probablya full time job or I don't know,
mostly it's a full time job. And this is also and then a
challenge to make your peace with that, that you're not
anymore so much in charge all the time of what you play and
(28:24):
with whom you play. And I mean, I love my job and I
love my colleagues, but it's a challenge you don't see before
that you are not anymore so muchin charge of the whole.
And I think this is something, for example, missing from our
education if we think of our I don't know if you can relate,
because as a pianist you probably are more free in this
(28:48):
sense. Well, it's actually, I mean,
it's not that I can't relate, it's that I am consciously aware
of choosing to do my career as I'm doing it because I value
autonomy, because I need for myself, I need to be able to
make my own decisions. For the most part, in the few
(29:10):
times that I have maybe worked in a situation where I was
answering to someone else, and this is not, I mean, I sound
like I'm not a team player. By no means am I saying that I
can't be a team player. It's, it's not that I like when
I'm playing chamber music, for example, I love being able to
share the responsibility with everyone, being able to like
(29:33):
bounce ideas off knowing that it's not always going to be
quote UN quote, the way I might like playing that phrase.
But I'm going to learn somethingfrom someone else.
And if maybe it's really just a huge clash, that's still a
learning experience, you know? Yes, yes.
But in terms of like having an autonomous job, being
(29:56):
self-employed, being my own boss, I have come to understand
in my life that that is important to me.
I I continue to design my life in the way that I can keep that.
Yeah. Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, sounds very good. But what you're saying actually
reminds me of something that I learned from my therapist, which
(30:16):
is having both free will and responsibility.
As human beings, we have both free will and responsibility,
and we have the free will to choose our responsibilities.
And it is a responsibility to have free will.
(30:38):
What I mean by that is like, yes, maybe as an orchestra
musician, you don't have day-to-day autonomy over all of
the choices that you want to make, whether it's repertoire
or, you know, interpretation or phrasing.
But you, you and others, for example, or me if I were an
orchestra, we made the decision to go into that job.
(31:00):
Exactly. That was a free will choice to
choose that job, that lifestyle.Exactly.
I couldn't agree more. Absolutely.
And I think that this free will and the responsibility part is
something we learned during the years passing in the orchestra.
So not even the first year or the second, because first you
(31:23):
are examined by all your colleagues if you can stay.
And then the second or third year, maybe you are just so
relieved that you have a job foryour life that you just enjoy
whatever comes along. And these are very beautiful
moments, but I think after some years you realize what it means,
this responsibility and this free will, what you that you
(31:47):
chose to live this life. Because in my experience, how I
felt or how I went through it, Ifelt that during the music
education, like in university oror even youth orchestras, this
moment of winning an audition and having a fixed job is
presented to us like this happy ever after moment where the
(32:12):
romantic movies end, you know, and then you then you arrive
there and then everything's going to be fine.
And then you're going to be one of those who have a job and one
of those very few who can earn their life as orchestra
musician. And of course, we are so
passionate about it that we are actually not very I think that
(32:35):
we are emotionally not prepared for that moment when it comes
after some years that and now this is my life and I'm just
doing this every day. Like day in, day out.
I sit here and I play all these notes and you know, it can, it
can feel surprising that this happy ever after is also just a
(32:58):
normal everyday life. And it can come together with a
sense of guilt that, you know, Ishould be happy because there
are so many people who don't have what I have and want to
have what I have. So who am I to even be
unsatisfied? And these are complicated
feelings, which there is, there is no support system for this
(33:23):
basically because you are not anymore in an education system
where you can just tell your teacher like, yeah, but you are
like a grown up person very often feeling alone with this
struggle because you also don't want to tell this to your
colleagues because you want to keep the, I don't know well.
You don't want to seem ungrateful for what you have.
Also, and you want to stay motivated.
(33:45):
So if you have one unmotivated day, you don't want to tell
immediately that I'm unmotivated.
And then it goes on and it's gonna, it can get, it can turn
into a longer period. And this is one of the things
where I think that the music education could be also focusing
on like, you know, you, you better be a stable human being
(34:06):
because just getting what you want is not enough After like,
then you have it and you have tokeep on living day by day as a
stable human being. It's not so easy, you know what
I mean? Yeah, well, society also like
teaches us this whole thing. What you said about like sort of
happily ever after, you get a job and then you're you set for
(34:28):
life. This is also society sort of
molding us to believe that in order to be successful, we need
to have a steady, financially secure job.
And as I've gotten older, especially in, in, you know, in
these last couple years, I've come to understand, I mean, it
(34:50):
goes so much deeper than that. Life for me is about choices and
priorities. Both choices and priorities come
from our values. And for me, I have learned for
myself that I value autonomy more than I value financial
(35:11):
stability. Yeah.
So I have literally chosen a jobthat is not financially stable.
I make it as financially stable as possible, right?
Whether it's my manager who's finding me concerts or I'm
seeking them. Like I make sure that I have
work consistently so that I am earning, you know, I have
(35:33):
savings, whatever it is. Like I make sure that I am not
in a situation where I have no money, but at the same time I
need that external, both internal and external
stimulation and almost like pressure.
To to keep. Going and to to be motivated in
order to thrive, I thrive on that.
(35:55):
I need that spontaneity, which is very, very, very funny to me
that I am saying this out loud to you right now that I need the
spontaneity in my life. And I feel like I'm one of the
most like sort of square in the box, draw inside the lines.
You know, everything needs to beplanned and organized.
And yet I've chosen like the most unstable profession.
(36:19):
But these things sometimes are controversial in in US.
I, I feel because I'm, I also love freedom a lot.
Like I absolutely need to experience some freedom every
day, some a sense of I don't just do what I have to do.
But at the same time, first of all, I'm orchestra musician
because I love the orchestra repertoire and playing the flute
(36:41):
in this bigger context. But at the same time, I I also
need this kind of stability. Maybe it comes from being a
foreigner in every country, but it can I, I can absolutely value
that and and look for the freedom in also my practice,
also my yoga practice and maybe playing on other at other
(37:04):
places, being guest here and there, playing chamber music,
this kind of stuff. Yoga helps a lot in this sense
of freedom, I have to admit. Yeah, I was, I I was thinking it
it must. And it's, I don't know, it's
just it's I mean, nothing is like one way is not right or
wrong. It's just so interesting how
(37:26):
simply how how we are as humans.Yeah, this has always been the
way that I need this artistic freedom.
And I don't feel the need. I don't feel that internal need
for absolute financial stability.
Whereas like my sister, my younger sister was totally the
opposite, really. On Cheat could have been a
musician. I think she saw the the amount
of struggles that I had to go through.
(37:48):
And she was like, no, you know what?
I'm gonna go the financially stable route and she's a banker.
Wow, quite the opposite. Quite the opposite.
But she still plays music. She still plays cello, and she
finds her creativity in other ways.
She sings beautifully and plays music just for fun.
And I just, I think it's just sointeresting and I'm just like
(38:09):
laughing at myself now just how much I'm talking about that.
I need this artistic freedom. Yet in so many aspects of my
life, like I get very stressed if things like if plans are left
till the last minute or like I'mbuying a plane ticket at the
last minute. It's so stressful for me.
Like I want things. Organized.
Yeah, it's, it's it's both together.
(38:32):
I I know this feeling. Balance right back to balance.
Yeah, and also a bit of identity, like we like to say
about ourselves. I'm like this, I'm like that,
but it's sometimes more fluid than that.
And about this identity. I also think these two worlds of
(38:52):
yoga and music made me think right now that as a musician we
have our identity so glued to our instrument and so, so
unified with what we achieve, what we play.
How it was like, who am I without the flute even?
And I think that in terms of thestability and balance, it helped
(39:15):
me a lot to study basically something completely new where I
was not the flute player from the beginning and it was not
like you played here and there so you are good and blah, blah,
blah. But I just arrived in this yoga
education and I was just one like any other.
(39:38):
And I had to start from zero. All the topics like all the
other people, and it was absolutely irrelevant what I
achieved everything with the flute and it was like this sense
of identity was such a new experience that it's not the
flute player here or everybody has some other job in the
(40:00):
beginning. Before they get to full time
yoga teaching if they want, yeah.
I love that. So this is maybe also something
interesting. As a musician, we we tend to
focus all our personality, all our identity around instrument
and around the music we play. And it's also not the most
(40:20):
healthy thing, I have to say. It's a reminder that we're just
so much more multidimensional than we sort of allow ourselves
to be, and there's so many more layers that we can uncover and
discover about ourselves and each other if we allow that.
Exactly. Well, I could.
I mean, I could, I could talk about this.
Every topic now. I could talk about this forever
(40:42):
with you. Thank you so much for being
here, Agnesh. It's been such a pleasure
talking to you today. Thank you for sharing your your
world with us and for just this really lovely conversation.
I feel like we although we haven't met in person like many
of my guests, I I feel like we connect and I really hope that
we get to meet in person somedaysoon.
(41:05):
Play music together, Maybe do yoga together.
Experience. It would be nice.
Thank you so much for inviting me, it was a really pleasure.
Thank you all so much for listening.
I am truly grateful for the support.
Please share this episode in this podcast because the more
(41:25):
awareness we bring to mental health, the sooner we can break
the stigmas around these topics and the faster we can help make
our world a healthier place. Don't forget to subscribe
wherever you get your podcasts and see you next week for
another episode of The ConsciousArtist.
Hello and welcome back to another episode of The Conscious
Artist, a safe space for conversations around mental
health awareness for musicians, artists, and all human beings.
I am your host, Pallavi Mahidera, and I'm thrilled that
you are joining us today. I love the community we have
developed together through this show and I'm committed to
continuing to give a platform for voices and stories to be
(00:26):
shared. When we allow others and
ourselves to feel seen and heard, we create much needed
change in this industry and in this world.
So thank you for supporting thiscommunity.
Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts
and let's get started. My guest today is a Hungarian
(00:52):
flutist, currently serving as a Co Principal Flutist of the
Brimerhoven Philharmonic Orchestra.
But the main reason I wanted to chat with her today is for her
endless curiosity and broad range of interests.
In addition to being a performing artist, in the past
few years she has been working as a certified yoga teacher and
meditation and breath work instructor.
(01:13):
Her diverse passions and skills combine art and mindfulness,
enriching both her musical practice and her personal
development. Please join me in welcoming
Agnes Bosch to the conscious Artist.
Agnes, I'm delighted to have youhere with us today.
Thank you very much. What a nice introduction.
Thank you. Well, it is my pleasure and I'm
really looking forward to our conversation.
(01:35):
I love that more and more artists are searching for a more
balanced and wholesome approach to life, you know, seeking
hobbies and sometimes even parallel careers to sort of
balance out the stresses and thepressures of what it takes to be
quote UN quote, successful in this world.
And actually not just in the artistic world.
(01:56):
We see so many people, for example, in finance that one day
decide to, you know, up and quittheir jobs.
They're very high pressure jobs.And suddenly they've decided to
become a chef or a yoga instructor or a Wellness coach.
And I think it's a pretty big indication that society does not
focus enough on mental and physical well-being.
(02:17):
And I honestly feel very proud that, like you and so many
others are turning to the practice of yoga, which is an
ancient Indian practice of connecting and balancing the
mind, body and soul. And so I would love to know what
drew you to the world of yoga and your decision to become a
certified instructor. OK.
(02:38):
Yes, so I agree with all the things you said.
And I have to say my first encounter with yoga was at a
very early age, almost like first encounter with flute.
I had my first yoga lesson ever when I was 10 years old.
We were living in Hungary and I had some pain in my belly and I
(03:00):
don't know how and why, but my mom took me to a yoga class and
it was not a fashion back then. But still somehow I started the
connection there and from that moment on, it was always kind of
part of my life. The way I I started the
(03:21):
education. It was as a bit of a special
corner of yoga because I learnedabout Ashtanga yoga maybe three
years ago. Then I discovered something I
didn't knew before and then I knew like at some point it's
helping me so much. It's such an intense thing to do
and it helps me so much mentallyto focus, to deal with
(03:44):
difficulties, to be physically strong, really like as if you do
strength training or I don't know.
So I, I felt such a strength coming from that, that at that
point I was checking where can Ido an education in this yoga
transition? And then I found the school in
Bremen and there I did my first education and currently I'm
(04:09):
continuing I'm in the advanced education, which I'm doing in
Hamburg. But that's incredible.
It's no, but it's, I mean, it's new in terms of, I guess, you
know, doing the training, but yoga is something that's been a
part of your life since you werelittle.
And that's not so common, I would say, in the West.
(04:30):
And that's really, really beautiful that it was something
that you were introduced to at such a young age.
Yeah, So I don't know how, but I'm really lucky in this sense.
Also, my aunt, the sister of my mom, became a yoga teacher back
then pretty soon. And she was for a long time one
(04:51):
of the owners of one of the biggest schools of yoga in
Budapest. And then she decided to move to
the countryside and start a new school there.
So there is a lot of mindfulnessand yoga tradition in my family.
It's it's. It's pretty strange, I know.
That's beautiful. We need more of that, yeah.
(05:11):
Yeah, also in the older generation and my mom is a
teacher for school kids, like smaller kids until the age of
14. And she also as a second
profession, she was already, I don't know, 55 or something like
this when she entered her first yoga education.
And now she's also a teacher forYoga for Kids.
(05:33):
That's beautiful. So there's a lot in the family.
But I think it's so important and so necessary as, as I said,
you know, as artists, and we're not the only ones, but as
artists, we have to deal with a lot of pressure, whether it's
internal and self-imposed pressure or it's external
pressure through jobs, through colleagues, through
(05:54):
competitions, if you're in school, There's so much.
And we don't always know or learn.
We're not taught how to manage those emotions.
We're not taught how to balance and take care of ourselves in a
healthy way so that we don't burnout, so that we don't get
physical injuries, so that we don't become depressed or have
crippling anxiety. This is becoming more and more
(06:17):
of a staple in people's lives that they are seeking balance.
They are seeking mental and physical well-being along with
whatever success they are searching for in their careers.
Exactly, and and also what you say makes me think of this topic
of internal and external pressure.
(06:39):
I think that after our education, what we had as a
child or young professional, it also takes such a long time to
really be able to separate what is internal and what is external
pressure. Because a lot of things we get
by our teachers or by the schoolsystem or competition system or
(07:01):
audition system and we internalize that pressure.
So what I found through yoga, for example, also to go back
through really what is what I really want, what is my
emotional connection to flute playing or music playing, which
is not connected to if I win an audition or not, or if I am in
(07:25):
this orchestra or test orchestra, you know, like this,
this connection to the music without the influence of the
external world, like this very intimate connection, which is
for all of us. It's why we, we started this
probably, I mean, I don't think that any one of us started at
(07:45):
the age of 4 because we wanted to win a competition.
We most most likely started because we had fun or we loved
it or music was just speaking tous like nothing else.
And that's what we actually should like, really take care of
(08:06):
the older we get also. I couldn't agree more.
For me, my journey into letting go or trying to let go of, you
know, all the external pressure and external noise was through
therapy. And I've talked about this a lot
of my podcast, but going to therapy and actually like doing
(08:26):
the psychological analysis. I mean, I am very much of an
overthinker. So it was like.
It makes you know. Me going to therapy, like with
my notebook, what's my homework for this week?
What do I need to analyze this week?
But but it really helped becauseit was like, little by little
unlearning so much of what I thought I had to be.
(08:49):
Yeah. What I thought I was supposed to
be or what I was supposed to think or how I was supposed to
play or what I'm supposed to do.And, you know, just.
I, I mean, I don't know what. I'm curious to know what you
think. But I feel like it's also, part
of it is also just simply getting older and, you know,
being well into my 30s. I'm just like, I don't care
anymore. Like you want to you, you don't
(09:11):
like what I'm doing. That's cool.
You live your life. I'll live mine.
I'm OK with that. Yeah, but it's not so easy.
I think this comes, I mean, yeah, two topics.
Like I also did a lot of I mean,I consulting or therapy or
whatever you call it when I, I had very different stages of
this. So for example, when I was
(09:32):
auditioning around 25 or at the age more or less 25, then I
started to realize that anxiety can really make my my
performance much worse. So I consulted a sports
psychologist back then from Hungary, and we did really like
(09:57):
very rational and very supportive exercises for the
mind for me to, you know, just stand there and play no matter
what. Can you tell me like what for
example were some of the exercises?
I'm really curious. So some main concepts which I
still remember because it's had,it has been more than 10 years,
let's admit. So one of these was like, we
(10:21):
made a plan for many weeks how I'm going to practice.
And she always spoke about, for example, if you're high like
professional sport man movement,then you don't need to have peak
performance all the days of the week.
So if you do like one or two really, really good trainings
(10:45):
per week, then it's good enough.And the rest of the day you have
to show up and maybe someday show up anyway, even if you are
deadly tired. Like do then 30% but do
something and then in a another day when you feel that your
energy is really high, then do your peak performance and and
(11:06):
just don't expect yourself to have the peak every day.
So that was new to me back then because I was struggling, you
know, just playing the things every day by heart and
everything without mistakes and every corner of crescendo,
diminuendo, click cleans. And you know, like when somebody
(11:29):
who's coaching like really successful competitors in
another field tells me like justto treat it as a normal life and
treat the day where you actuallyhave to play also like a normal
day, like an audition. Like the more normal you think
this day is, the higher probablyyour performance is going to be
(11:52):
because the more you think that you need to do the very, very
best that day, the more you can actually sabotage yourself.
But it depends on what field we are in.
Because I think when you actually need speed or something
like really adrenaline put directly into something, then it
can help. But for the flute playing, I
(12:15):
mean, yeah, too much adrenaline can actually destroy your breath
or or feel your body way too stiff or tense.
So for me was helpful to loosen up and also to see the the
period of preparation more in weeks where I see what do I want
(12:36):
to achieve in a week, Where do Iwant to be in one week and then
in two weeks and then in three weeks and see that some days are
like really good peak days and some days when they are just
normal that I can go to bed in peace and sleep.
Well, yeah, this is, this is so important because as musicians,
(12:56):
we often either taught or we think that it has to be quote,
UN quote, perfect every time, although there is no such thing
as perfect. And we often, you know, let's
say we're working on a passage and we finally get it.
And then we think, OK, now we'velearned it.
Now we have it in our fingers. Now we have it in our brain.
Now we have it in our voice, whatever, you know, the
(13:18):
instrument. And then the next day it sounds
like shit. And we feel like, well, what
what was the point of what we did?
Or we obviously didn't do it well enough, or we don't know
it. And then we start to question
and doubt our abilities or our ourselves as people.
You know, it just goes in this horrible negative spiral.
(13:40):
There's so much research with sports psychology in terms of
how it helps to benefit and enhance a performance.
And it's so applicable to music,but there's so little research.
And. Sort of interest in music
psychology or performing arts psychology, could we say?
(14:01):
Yeah, and one other thing, I, I mean, she was very experienced.
So it, it was for me so easy also to be led by somebody who
doesn't question every step she makes, you know.
So when we are alone practicing,then for me, since I'm also an
overthinker, let's say it's a lot of time, like is it really
(14:22):
good what I'm doing? Like is it or should I do it it
another way or like I have to practice really to make a
decision and stick to it or justlike be easy with if it's
different everyday. And back then when I was
auditioning at that age, it helped me so much that this
sports psychologist was very experienced in her field and she
(14:46):
was like, this is like this. You don't have to think I
thought about this for you, so you just do what I say.
It was also very helpful that she was really an expert of her
field and with her about the techniques, because actually
before I didn't say a concrete technique, she introduced me to
auto gain training. I don't know how this is in
(15:08):
English. Like when you go with your
attention, it's like a very detailed body scan.
You close your eyes and you go with your attention through your
whole body and then you relax. Like you relax your fingers,
your elbow, your arm, and you say yourself like, I relax and
(15:28):
that and that and that. And then with that sensation you
go again through your whole body.
You've tried to feel a sense of warmth and then a cool
sensation. So you exercise feeling
differently by conducting how you feel.
And it helped me a lot. I practiced this a lot back then
(15:50):
and also before auditions and before the nights of auditions,
like the night before to sleep better.
Basically, I was practicing thisevery day before I practiced
even even that. Yeah.
Because she also told me, like, look at the quality of your
practice, not just in the terms of results, but in the terms of
(16:10):
how you feel while you practice.Like in with what kind of
thoughts you have towards your practice.
Like if, if you feel like it's, it's an obligation that you have
to do it. If, if you fear that if you
don't do it, it's going to be bad.
So like, work on your feelings to have as much positive as
(16:35):
possible towards your practice. This was also something she gave
to me. This is so important.
And you know, I talk about this with my students.
I have conversations with my colleagues and my friends about
this today. But again, like you're telling
me this was something you were working on with the sports coach
10 years ago. This has been part of the sports
(16:58):
world for so long. And it we're just getting
started in the music world with this.
But it's I love what you said, Ilove what she told you,
basically allowing you to be able to sleep peacefully at
night, whatever you've done thatday.
That's so important that we are essentially kind to ourselves,
that we give leeway to the simple fact that we are human
(17:22):
beings and that it is going to be different every single day
and we're going to feel differently every single day.
And as an athlete, that's kind of a very obvious thing that
like, if you're tired, you can you can measure it.
You cannot run as fast or you cannot if you're playing
football, you cannot kick the ball as far maybe if you're if
(17:44):
you're extra tired, right? Whereas as musicians, we say,
yeah, OK, I'm tired, but I'm notreally, you know, exerting so
much physically. So I should be able to do XYZ.
And that's completely false because we are like athletes.
I mean, you as a wind player, you're literally using your
breath. If you're tired, of course
that's going to affect your breath control and your breath
(18:06):
capacity, right? Yeah, another concept I liked
very much this concept of willpower, because with in my
education or maybe my temperament or where I come
from, for me the answer to many,many things was willpower.
And she also told me and one other coach later on also told
(18:26):
me that we have to be careful with this because when I, for
example, I have an audition preparation phase like for weeks
or I don't know, three weeks or whatever, depending on where and
what repertoire. And in during this time, I use
willpower for everything. So I try to eat very clean.
(18:48):
I don't drink sugary or alcoholic things.
Or then I have a very disciplined schedule to practice
and all these kind of things. Then it can really take away the
lightness in you. And she was always like, you
know, willpower is not not the ultimate answer to everything in
the world. Like just also there you don't
(19:11):
have to do all the time 200%. You can just go back to 80 maybe
and another day better, but justbe all the time kind and very
forgiving to yourself if you have the tendency to use
willpower too much let's say. Of course, if you are super lazy
then you need some more. Willpower, but I guess it goes
(19:33):
back to balance, right? Exactly.
It's about balance. Yeah, I'm sensing some
similarities between US and whatyou're saying.
I also have that tendency to be very, very disciplined in
certain moments, but I take it to an extreme where then after
I'm done with everything, whether it's a really big
concert, a series of concerts ora tour, or in the past, you
(19:55):
know, many, many years ago when it was competitions.
And then I would need a break and I would just stop playing
for a couple weeks. And I never feel guilty about
taking time away from piano. Like when I have a holiday or
when I want to take my holiday or I don't have a piano, I never
feel guilty about it. And I think that's healthy.
I think it's a good thing. Perfect.
(20:15):
However, what I don't think is healthy is the need to
completely shut off that part ofmyself because I've gone too far
on the other side of like working too hard.
And so I'm still searching for amore balanced approach, sort of
long term. I think I've gotten better at
(20:36):
balancing my everyday life, my sort of day-to-day life.
I will listen to my body. If I feel more tired that day,
you know, I'll take it easy. Let's say I'm home, you know, in
between travels or whatever, maybe I feel really motivated
and I want to start my day with a workout because that's going
to give me a lot more energy than just going and sitting at
(20:57):
the piano, you know, stretching my body, exercising it, doing
strength training, doing Pilates, doing yoga, whatever it
is, moving my body, clearing my mind, getting my muscles warmed
up and limber. That's going to aid greatly in
the success of my practice that day.
And success means, you know, what is the quality of it?
(21:19):
Am I focused? Am I engaged?
You know, like, I love what you said earlier.
What is the quality of your practice?
What is your mindset in your practice?
Are you feeling like it's an obligation?
And yeah, some days it is. Some days I don't want to
practice and I really need to sit my butt down on the piano
bench and practice because I have to learn something or I
(21:40):
have to memorize something or I just need repetition.
Sometimes we need that, yes. And I would much rather be out
for a walk or, you know, hangingout with my friends or, you
know, I don't going to see a movie or something.
Of course, I think searching forthose sort of day-to-day
balances has become easier. I've gotten a lot better at like
listening to my body. What do I want to eat today?
(22:02):
Am I craving something warm and nourishing?
Am I craving something light like a salad?
Do I need more water? You know, am I dehydrated?
Do I need just like fruits and veggies, you know, those things
I think I'm getting better at. But.
I don't. Know, I still struggle with sort
of when I have a period of a lotof work, maybe a couple months
(22:23):
in a row where I'm just traveling nonstop and I'm just
going, going, going, going, going, going, going.
And then finally I have a momentto take a break.
And then of course I get sick because that's a moment when my
body is like, OK, it's time to stop now.
Like we're done. So.
I don't know what's been your experience with that.
I just have two thoughts on whatyou just said to your shut off
what you said that sometimes youjust have the need to take weeks
(22:47):
long breaks or so. I think I have a very yogic
thought to that because we say, I say in my yoga classes, I
mean, I learned like this and I heard it in many other yoga
classes too, that there is this famous final relaxation in every
yoga class and we use where you don't move at all and you don't
(23:10):
do anything. You just try to be like as
passive as you can and you just let yourself sink into the
ground. Shavasana.
It's Shavasana. Exactly.
And that's where we say that theeffects of what you did before
all the efforts you gave arrivesin the body then.
And then it's, it's actually, ifyou don't give yourself that
(23:32):
break of doing absolutely nothing, then you cannot really
process all the efforts you madebefore.
So for the brain it works too. And for the body also, I mean,
the muscles also grow during thebreak, not during the training.
So everything I, I think it's very, very healthy to look at
the learning process in these terms.
(23:54):
Like there is the, the period ofeffort and the period of a break
where all the effort can actually arrive on deeper levels
in US. That's how I see it.
So I would say don't feel bad about taking longer breaks.
So basically I can look at my entire life as my yoga practice
and then my my breaks as my three-week shavasana.
(24:16):
I like that. We'll go with that.
This is already balanced. I.
Like it we, we are all musicians, mostly emotional,
very like highly emotional people and also like we can
activate ourselves in a very special way.
I find. And I do think that it needs the
counterbalance. And it's also part of our
(24:39):
education that we feel kind of guilty when, Oh my God, I had
now one week break of the flute and I don't even miss it.
Oh my God. But actually we can get back
much more fresh and we can realize some progress much
better when we took a proper break, in my opinion.
(25:00):
But yeah, I know the first couple of days when we restart
practicing, it's always like, OK, my body needs that
continuity. I know.
But at this obligation that somedays it's OK to have an
obligation to practice. It's true.
But sometimes also we can examine our relation to that
(25:20):
obligation. So is it painful for me or it's
just an obligation and I'm relaxed about it?
Like I don't feel highly motivated but I'm fine with
having an obligation so I do it.But if I feel like extremely lot
of resistance, then what is it right?
Like, can I solve it somehow or am I going to practice against
(25:43):
that resistance? That's a tricky thing.
Sometimes it doesn't have, but yeah, every day is so different.
Yes, I totally agree with that. And like the thing of
obligation. It's very interesting because
it's like something that I've been really working on over
these last couple years. I saw a post on Instagram by a
therapist that I follow and she said I reposted it on my story
(26:07):
actually and she said if it's not a hell yes it's a no.
I saw it Thea. Yeah.
And what I like about that is essentially, are we truly both
engaged and motivated and excited?
Are we really wanting to do the thing that we are doing?
And there are going to be circumstances like doing taxes,
(26:29):
for example, where no one probably wants to do their taxes
unless you're a tax accountant. But like, we have to do it.
And sometimes those things will be there.
We will have certain obligationsin life that we have to just
sort of like sit and bear it anddo it.
But when it becomes a thing of like internal conflict, let's
say we said yes to playing a certain certain concert or a
(26:54):
certain piece or doing somethingthat we feel this like internal
resistance against, then yes. I think we do need to examine,
are we overextending ourselves? Did we say yes to something
because we felt obligated to sayyes?
Because if we said no, maybe they won't call us again.
(27:14):
Or maybe we said yes because we want to do it.
But actually, we don't have the physical or mental or emotional
capacity to do more than we're already doing.
And I think those are the placeswhere we can like, listen to our
body, listen to ourselves, kind of re examine what we're feeling
in that moment, right? Yes.
And if I listen to this now and I can lead the topic over to my
(27:39):
job, which is playing in orchestra, I think that this is
something what you kind of have to accept if you work in an
orchestra that it's not going tobe all the time like I want to
play this piece or I want to play that day and not that day.
You know, it's there is a lot ofthings you have to accept
(28:02):
because you said yes to probablya full time job or I don't know,
mostly it's a full time job. And this is also and then a
challenge to make your peace with that, that you're not
anymore so much in charge all the time of what you play and
(28:24):
with whom you play. And I mean, I love my job and I
love my colleagues, but it's a challenge you don't see before
that you are not anymore so muchin charge of the whole.
And I think this is something, for example, missing from our
education if we think of our I don't know if you can relate,
because as a pianist you probably are more free in this
(28:48):
sense. Well, it's actually, I mean,
it's not that I can't relate, it's that I am consciously aware
of choosing to do my career as I'm doing it because I value
autonomy, because I need for myself, I need to be able to
make my own decisions. For the most part, in the few
(29:10):
times that I have maybe worked in a situation where I was
answering to someone else, and this is not, I mean, I sound
like I'm not a team player. By no means am I saying that I
can't be a team player. It's, it's not that I like when
I'm playing chamber music, for example, I love being able to
share the responsibility with everyone, being able to like
(29:33):
bounce ideas off knowing that it's not always going to be
quote UN quote, the way I might like playing that phrase.
But I'm going to learn somethingfrom someone else.
And if maybe it's really just a huge clash, that's still a
learning experience, you know? Yes, yes.
But in terms of like having an autonomous job, being
(29:56):
self-employed, being my own boss, I have come to understand
in my life that that is important to me.
I I continue to design my life in the way that I can keep that.
Yeah. Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, sounds very good. But what you're saying actually
reminds me of something that I learned from my therapist, which
(30:16):
is having both free will and responsibility.
As human beings, we have both free will and responsibility,
and we have the free will to choose our responsibilities.
And it is a responsibility to have free will.
(30:38):
What I mean by that is like, yes, maybe as an orchestra
musician, you don't have day-to-day autonomy over all of
the choices that you want to make, whether it's repertoire
or, you know, interpretation or phrasing.
But you, you and others, for example, or me if I were an
orchestra, we made the decision to go into that job.
(31:00):
Exactly. That was a free will choice to
choose that job, that lifestyle.Exactly.
I couldn't agree more. Absolutely.
And I think that this free will and the responsibility part is
something we learned during the years passing in the orchestra.
So not even the first year or the second, because first you
(31:23):
are examined by all your colleagues if you can stay.
And then the second or third year, maybe you are just so
relieved that you have a job foryour life that you just enjoy
whatever comes along. And these are very beautiful
moments, but I think after some years you realize what it means,
this responsibility and this free will, what you that you
(31:47):
chose to live this life. Because in my experience, how I
felt or how I went through it, Ifelt that during the music
education, like in university oror even youth orchestras, this
moment of winning an audition and having a fixed job is
presented to us like this happy ever after moment where the
(32:12):
romantic movies end, you know, and then you then you arrive
there and then everything's going to be fine.
And then you're going to be one of those who have a job and one
of those very few who can earn their life as orchestra
musician. And of course, we are so
passionate about it that we are actually not very I think that
(32:35):
we are emotionally not prepared for that moment when it comes
after some years that and now this is my life and I'm just
doing this every day. Like day in, day out.
I sit here and I play all these notes and you know, it can, it
can feel surprising that this happy ever after is also just a
(32:58):
normal everyday life. And it can come together with a
sense of guilt that, you know, Ishould be happy because there
are so many people who don't have what I have and want to
have what I have. So who am I to even be
unsatisfied? And these are complicated
feelings, which there is, there is no support system for this
(33:23):
basically because you are not anymore in an education system
where you can just tell your teacher like, yeah, but you are
like a grown up person very often feeling alone with this
struggle because you also don't want to tell this to your
colleagues because you want to keep the, I don't know well.
You don't want to seem ungrateful for what you have.
Also, and you want to stay motivated.
(33:45):
So if you have one unmotivated day, you don't want to tell
immediately that I'm unmotivated.
And then it goes on and it's gonna, it can get, it can turn
into a longer period. And this is one of the things
where I think that the music education could be also focusing
on like, you know, you, you better be a stable human being
(34:06):
because just getting what you want is not enough After like,
then you have it and you have tokeep on living day by day as a
stable human being. It's not so easy, you know what
I mean? Yeah, well, society also like
teaches us this whole thing. What you said about like sort of
happily ever after, you get a job and then you're you set for
(34:28):
life. This is also society sort of
molding us to believe that in order to be successful, we need
to have a steady, financially secure job.
And as I've gotten older, especially in, in, you know, in
these last couple years, I've come to understand, I mean, it
(34:50):
goes so much deeper than that. Life for me is about choices and
priorities. Both choices and priorities come
from our values. And for me, I have learned for
myself that I value autonomy more than I value financial
(35:11):
stability. Yeah.
So I have literally chosen a jobthat is not financially stable.
I make it as financially stable as possible, right?
Whether it's my manager who's finding me concerts or I'm
seeking them. Like I make sure that I have
work consistently so that I am earning, you know, I have
(35:33):
savings, whatever it is. Like I make sure that I am not
in a situation where I have no money, but at the same time I
need that external, both internal and external
stimulation and almost like pressure.
To to keep. Going and to to be motivated in
order to thrive, I thrive on that.
(35:55):
I need that spontaneity, which is very, very, very funny to me
that I am saying this out loud to you right now that I need the
spontaneity in my life. And I feel like I'm one of the
most like sort of square in the box, draw inside the lines.
You know, everything needs to beplanned and organized.
And yet I've chosen like the most unstable profession.
(36:19):
But these things sometimes are controversial in in US.
I, I feel because I'm, I also love freedom a lot.
Like I absolutely need to experience some freedom every
day, some a sense of I don't just do what I have to do.
But at the same time, first of all, I'm orchestra musician
because I love the orchestra repertoire and playing the flute
(36:41):
in this bigger context. But at the same time, I I also
need this kind of stability. Maybe it comes from being a
foreigner in every country, but it can I, I can absolutely value
that and and look for the freedom in also my practice,
also my yoga practice and maybe playing on other at other
(37:04):
places, being guest here and there, playing chamber music,
this kind of stuff. Yoga helps a lot in this sense
of freedom, I have to admit. Yeah, I was, I I was thinking it
it must. And it's, I don't know, it's
just it's I mean, nothing is like one way is not right or
wrong. It's just so interesting how
(37:26):
simply how how we are as humans.Yeah, this has always been the
way that I need this artistic freedom.
And I don't feel the need. I don't feel that internal need
for absolute financial stability.
Whereas like my sister, my younger sister was totally the
opposite, really. On Cheat could have been a
musician. I think she saw the the amount
of struggles that I had to go through.
(37:48):
And she was like, no, you know what?
I'm gonna go the financially stable route and she's a banker.
Wow, quite the opposite. Quite the opposite.
But she still plays music. She still plays cello, and she
finds her creativity in other ways.
She sings beautifully and plays music just for fun.
And I just, I think it's just sointeresting and I'm just like
(38:09):
laughing at myself now just how much I'm talking about that.
I need this artistic freedom. Yet in so many aspects of my
life, like I get very stressed if things like if plans are left
till the last minute or like I'mbuying a plane ticket at the
last minute. It's so stressful for me.
Like I want things. Organized.
Yeah, it's, it's it's both together.
(38:32):
I I know this feeling. Balance right back to balance.
Yeah, and also a bit of identity, like we like to say
about ourselves. I'm like this, I'm like that,
but it's sometimes more fluid than that.
And about this identity. I also think these two worlds of
(38:52):
yoga and music made me think right now that as a musician we
have our identity so glued to our instrument and so, so
unified with what we achieve, what we play.
How it was like, who am I without the flute even?
And I think that in terms of thestability and balance, it helped
(39:15):
me a lot to study basically something completely new where I
was not the flute player from the beginning and it was not
like you played here and there so you are good and blah, blah,
blah. But I just arrived in this yoga
education and I was just one like any other.
(39:38):
And I had to start from zero. All the topics like all the
other people, and it was absolutely irrelevant what I
achieved everything with the flute and it was like this sense
of identity was such a new experience that it's not the
flute player here or everybody has some other job in the
(40:00):
beginning. Before they get to full time
yoga teaching if they want, yeah.
I love that. So this is maybe also something
interesting. As a musician, we we tend to
focus all our personality, all our identity around instrument
and around the music we play. And it's also not the most
(40:20):
healthy thing, I have to say. It's a reminder that we're just
so much more multidimensional than we sort of allow ourselves
to be, and there's so many more layers that we can uncover and
discover about ourselves and each other if we allow that.
Exactly. Well, I could.
I mean, I could, I could talk about this.
Every topic now. I could talk about this forever
(40:42):
with you. Thank you so much for being
here, Agnesh. It's been such a pleasure
talking to you today. Thank you for sharing your your
world with us and for just this really lovely conversation.
I feel like we although we haven't met in person like many
of my guests, I I feel like we connect and I really hope that
we get to meet in person somedaysoon.
(41:05):
Play music together, Maybe do yoga together.
Experience. It would be nice.
Thank you so much for inviting me, it was a really pleasure.
Thank you all so much for listening.
I am truly grateful for the support.
Please share this episode in this podcast because the more
(41:25):
awareness we bring to mental health, the sooner we can break
the stigmas around these topics and the faster we can help make
our world a healthier place. Don't forget to subscribe
wherever you get your podcasts and see you next week for
another episode of The ConsciousArtist.
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