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April 26, 2025 27 mins

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In this episode Amy Edelstein explores what it can meet to root in our True North, our deepest values, when we lean into how education needs to transform.


The questions surrounding education's future form an intricate web: How do we pause and reflect while simultaneously responding to the immediate needs of our students? Who funds it and why? What outcomes do we desire? How do we serve students with vastly different backgrounds and trajectories? 

When confronting  complexity, Amy looks at how returning to a "true north" of universal human values—compassion, care, and recognition of each person's dignity—provides both stability and flexibility. 

This podcast explores the essential paradox of educational transformation: we need time for deep reflection, yet our students continue growing each day, requiring immediate guidance. By embracing both patience and urgency, holding our preconceived ideas lightly while standing firmly in our humanity, we create space for innovations that honor both the passionate curiosity of youth and the thoughtful discernment needed for lasting change.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amy (00:10):
Welcome to the Conscious Classroom podcast, where we're
exploring tools and perspectivesthat support educators and
anyone who works with teams tocreate more conscious,
supportive and enrichinglearning environments.
I'm your host, amy Edelstein,and I'll be sharing
transformative insights andeasy-to-implement classroom
supports that are all drawn frommindful awareness and systems

(00:32):
thinking.
The themes we'll discuss aredesigned to improve your own joy
and fulfillment in your workand increase your impact on the
world we share.
Let's get on with this nextepisode.
Hello and welcome to theConscious Classroom podcast.

(00:54):
My name is Amy Edelstein.
I am really looking forward tothis exploration.
Today, I want to unpack some ofmy recent experience and also
some of the larger questionsthat I've been reflecting on,
which really have to do withdropping into our deeper meaning

(01:17):
, purpose and direction, and howwe do that when we're in the
middle of an educationenvironment where we have to
respond day in and day out andthe students never stop coming
and the students never stopgrowing and the students never
stop needing guidance and to beeducated.

(01:38):
So how do we pause and reflectand center at the same time as
responding to all of theimmediate needs that can't wait?
Last week, I had the delightfulprivilege and opportunity to

(02:01):
convene and moderate a dialoguewith Robert Thurman and Jon
Kabat-Zinn focused around thefuture of education.
Both of these individuals areextraordinary in the depth and
breadth of their knowledge,their quality of reflection over

(02:22):
decades and their tirelesscommitment to bringing the
wisdom of Eastern teachings, theDharma, into the West.
We all owe them a huge debt ofgratitude If Robert Thurman
hadn't learned Tibetan andbecome the Dalai Lama's

(02:44):
translator for 10 years andhosted numerous Eastern teachers
at his own apartment in NewYork way before it was
fashionable, where the DalaiLama's work and the teachings of

(03:12):
that tradition have become sowell known and studied in fields
ranging from neuroscience totrauma recovery.
And he really single-handedlydedicated so much of his life to
this that we, if we're involvedin any of these, have read any

(03:33):
of his books or studied any ofthese teachings or been exposed
to even short videos with theDalai Lama and been inspired.
We really do owe him a debt ofgratitude for his service and
passion and commitment.
And Jon Kabat-Zinn, when itcomes to the world of
mindfulness.

(03:53):
He is the father of Westernmindfulness, bringing it to
UMass Medical Center early on,doing research on how it could
mitigate the impacts of diseases, starting in 1979.
And now mindfulness is morethan a household word.
Even on your iPhone, for yoursnooze controls or your focus

(04:19):
controls, you have a mindfulnesscontrol.
I know he never would havethought 50 years ago, when it
was so fringy and woo-woo, thatit would become so popular, so
well-known, so well-used and sowell-applied in everything from

(04:40):
medicine to education, medicineto education.
So, being with these two giants,I really wanted to hear from
them about the insights andprinciples that they feel are
most important for ourindividual and collective
transformation.
What is going to help ourstudents mature into wise,

(05:04):
compassionate andself-actualized individuals?
What helped them?
What are the insights that havebeen mainstays for both of them
was just incrediblyfar-reaching.
It was for two individualswho've spent a lifetime immersed

(05:30):
in teachings around humanwisdom and higher human
capacities and mitigating thelower baser impulses of human
nature and supporting healingand recovery.
It's very hard to stay on onesingle train of thought, and

(05:56):
when it comes to education,education includes everything,
so it's very hard to limit whatwe're talking about.
Sometimes the themes that weresurfacing seemed a little bit
left of center, a little bitbeside the point, and yet, of

(06:19):
course, they were entirelyrelevant.
What's our bias for scientificmaterialism scientism as it's
sometimes called, and how doesthat limit the ways that we can
know and intuit?
How are we selling humanity andour world short if that's our

(06:41):
only acceptable frame ofreference?
How can we stay present,immediate those who are on the
audience and those who arewatching online with our own
reactions as they're happening,even as we're considering things
that are so vast?

(07:01):
When they were touching onstructural or political issues
and one participant insistedthat that was at odds with a
spiritual analysis and that theheart of our strife in the world

(07:22):
today has a spiritual nature toit and we need to return to
that which is most important.
Certainly a valid viewpoint,and yet only one approach.
Some people left completelyinspired, uplifted, optimistic

(07:43):
and reassured that we can touchinto the better angels of our
nature and reach our studentsand align with our school
communities and move forwardwith optimism and passion.
Some people left completelyagitated and frustrated at the

(08:05):
complexity that there was noclear path, that we were laying
out with steps A, b and C, andfor me, I left reflecting on
both the content and manyquestions that require deeper
thinking and also simply theoverarching challenges of

(08:29):
feeling like you're makingprogress on a deep level when
you're engaging with the futureof education design, when we're
looking at the future ofeducation and wondering how we
teach students and preparestudents for a world that's
unknown and unknowable at thispoint, what are our pathways?

(08:54):
When we're thinking about aschool system that is reaching
millions of young people, allwith different needs, cultural
habits, family situations,individual learning patterns,
aspirations, talents, how do wethink about all of it?

(09:18):
And there's always a conundrum,because if we pull together
thinkers who are deep in theeducation system, working in the
school environment day in andday out, and we talk about how
to remediate the situation,we're going to get involved in
the nuts and bolts of schoolsand curriculum, the logistics of

(09:43):
moving students in and out, ofmatriculating them and
graduating them.
And oftentimes in thoseconversations, while incredibly
valuable, we seem to stay on thesurface of things.
Of course the surface isimportant.
If you look at our earth, weneed roads and canals, we need

(10:05):
topsoil and habitats for allkinds of creatures on the
surface of the earth.
At the same time, if we'rebuilding new roads or
revitalizing the topsoil orleveling and replanting a field,
we may miss the qualitativeshift and the more profound

(10:29):
transformation that has to takeplace at deeper levels, those
qualitative shifts that lead toan opening up of the heart and
imagination that can open up notjust new pathways but profound

(10:53):
sense of grace and healing andvision and care.
So these are some of thequestions that I was reflecting
on how do we have conversationslike this that are truly going

(11:14):
to go somewhere and illuminateboth the answers and the
questions that we need to bethinking about?
So the more I reflected on it,I really felt that dropping into
the spiritual heart of thematter, the essence of what
brings care and compassion, ofgenerosity and awakened

(11:38):
perspectives and real human tohuman, in the moment connection,
can help us navigate thecomplexities of thinking about
the future of education.
Staying grounded in theindividuality and immediacy,

(12:01):
even while we're thinking abouthundreds of thousands or
millions of students, even whilewe're thinking about hundreds
of thousands or millions ofstudents, is entirely possible
and it comes from that focus onthe human connection and the
reaching out from care to care,from my care to my students'

(12:26):
care, from the educator's careto the administrator's care, and

(12:51):
it enables us to really dropinto an open and curious,
inquisitive and humbleperspective as we look at these
questions that touch really allof our social structures and, in
one way or another, everyone inour world's population.
The question of how we educate,who we educate, where we do it,
where we're heading with it.

(13:11):
What are our goals, ourfundamental ones that touch on
our heart and our value, howwe're caring for our entire
world, from the most privilegedto the most impoverished.

(13:33):
These are some of the questionsthat I want to hold in our
discussion as we talk about them, discussion as we talk about
them, and these are some of thequestions that I was really
reflecting on, and reflecting onhow we bring a unitive

(13:55):
framework to all of thesediverse needs and complexities
that we really do have tocontend with if we're talking
about the future of education.
It's just how do we approach itand how do we contend with
these questions that is going tomake all the difference.
So I'm just going to throw outa few of these, and you can see

(14:19):
that taking any one of these anddropping in deeply opens up
Indra's net of interconnection,cause and effect, and big social
structures that really do needchanging because they're not
meeting the needs of our timesand it's not clear how.

(14:39):
So let's think about it.
Who pays for education?
Why are they paying foreducation and where are they
paying for education?
Why are they paying foreducation and where are they
paying for education?
What are we educating for?
What are the desired outcomes?
What do we want our youngpeople to be able to do?

(15:02):
What are the personal skillsthat are needed?
What are the needs in oursociety now and in the future?
How do we serve students fromvery different walks of life,
with different experiences oflife, different cultural

(15:24):
backgrounds, different economicbackgrounds, different
vocational trajectories?
What's the method to servefarmers and technologists?
To serve future social workersand future machinists?
Who's going to decide who fitsinto what category?
Who's going to ask the studentsand penetrate into their needs?

(15:49):
What worldview is going togovern what we teach and learn?
What's the context that we'reeducating in, because there
always is one, hidden or visible.
What are we using, hidden orvisible?

(16:10):
What are we using?
What ruler are we using tomeasure outcomes and impact,
progress and attainment?
Comparing apples to orangeswhat do students need to help
them learn?
What wraparound services?
What is going to make them evenable to open their minds and
hearts, to be ready to learn,given their life circumstances

(16:34):
stressors, traumas, physicalneeds, neurodivergence?
Should we be keeping students insingle-age classrooms?
Are they developing holisticskills of care and mentorship
and peer leadership and support.
Is that system the best systemat all?

(16:58):
What guidance and disciplineand and structures do students
need so that they feel secureand have a direction?
And how can we do that andleave them free and unsupervised
so they cultivate agency, theydevelop independence, they learn

(17:23):
self-reliance, they struggleand cultivate their own
problem-solving skills,communication and conflict
resolution?
How do we let them muddlethrough in a way that builds
their character, theirconfidence and their conviction
in their own self-worth?

(17:43):
How do we expand horizons forthose who feel that their
pathways are very limited andhow do we open the horizons of
those who feel the world is attheir fingertips when yet they
don't see the lives of so manyof the under-resourced people

(18:09):
around the world?
What are the universalprinciples that we want to focus
on Love, care, compassion andwhat are the cultural
specificities we need to develop?
These are just some of thequestions, and there are so many

(18:35):
more.
With all these questions and thecomplexity involved with them,
I always seek to adopt aperspective that embraces and
includes, that looks at thedifferent perspectives and that

(18:56):
opens up from the heart of thematter, which is the cultivation
of our higher capacities andthe guidance and mentorship of
our young people to be the mostwise, discerning and caring
individuals that they can be.
So sometimes that requiresstepping back, recognizing

(19:25):
what's not knowable yet what'sultimately not knowable, what I
don't know, recognizing thevalidity in opposing points of
view or what might be underlyingthose opposing points of view,
and holding firm to the care forall souls, holding firm to

(19:50):
caring for the humanity of allsouls.
With the recent passing, thispast week, of Pope Francis, the
world's had a chance to reflecton very simple values love and
humility, the one-to-oneconnection between individuals

(20:18):
and how, when we individuallyembrace one another, we connect
at a level of life essencerather than position or dogma.
What I found so moving andreflecting on many of his
actions is the care and fluidityand softness that comes from

(20:47):
being firmly rooted in one'sdeepest values and highest
aspirations and, at the sametime, not shying away from the
complexity of bringing about abetter world.
A better world.

(21:14):
There's no doubt that there aremany different pathways to lead
us to improve education,educational outcomes and to
improve the world that our youngpeople are going to grow.
We may disagree, even strongly,about those pathways, and yet
the care is for the well-beingof everyone, the well-being of

(21:38):
each individual, and allowingourselves to hold preconceived
ideas lightly as we consider theway forward helps us find
balance around an issue that isjust terribly knotted and

(22:03):
twisted and complex knotted andtwisted and complex and
seemingly unsolvable.
It allows us to find balance inby standing in our heart, in
our humanity, and standing inthat which is simple and sacred,
that recognizes that which isboth singular, individual and

(22:27):
symbiotic, correlated, and thenwe can find our way, allowing
ourselves to grow and learn,recognizing wrong turns and
moving past them, and movingpast them seeking forgiveness

(22:52):
and amends when harm has beendone unintentionally through our
own lack of vision or lack ofunderstanding.
It happens when we stay rootedin that true north, in that care
for all those students weminister to and for the world
that they're going to inherit,we can continue, in spite of

(23:18):
many of the challenges andinterruptions along the way.
When we contemplate the futureof education, the essential
paradox that we have to leaninto is that there is so much to
discover and to reflect on andto parse apart, and yet we have

(23:40):
no time, because young peopleare growing now.
They're needing guidance.
Now they're needing nurturanceand directions.
They have questions, changeshappening, they have an urgency,
which is the urgency of youth,that urgency which wants to know
yesterday, and we want to Tendto that and respond to that and

(24:06):
cultivate that sense of passionfor the possible and take the
time that we need.
When we root in that sense ofour true north, of those deeper
values that are timeless, wefind qualities of both patience

(24:27):
and impatience.
We can wait and learn andproceed with care and not take
any time with connecting withanother's humanity, sitting down
and breaking bread,metaphorically or actually, to

(24:49):
cross borders and boundaries andmeet in a shared purpose, which
is to bring about a betterworld, even if we are not sure
how to get there or have verydifferent ideas.
So, as all of you, my listeners,know that my passion is to

(25:12):
bring about a better world, mychannel is education and the
future of education, and in mywork on projects that will lead
us into the future, I am veryeager to learn and connect with

(25:42):
those of you who have ideas andquestions and vision, so we can
really pool our resources andget into real conversation about
the possible and lean in, readyto adjust course, ready to

(26:05):
release what doesn't work, readyto start anew, always guided by
that true north, and as we dothis, we'll involve our young
people in these discussions aswell.
We'll listen and we'll hear,we'll question and we'll offer,

(26:37):
question and will offer, andtogether we'll lean into a
possibility of an educationsystem that brings about the
qualities of wisdom and care, sothat all those individuals can
continue to create a world thatwe all want to share.
Thank you for listening.
Till next time.

(26:58):
Thank you for listening to theConscious Classroom.
I'm your host, amy Edelstein.
Please check out the show noteson innerstrengthfoundationnet
for links and more information,and if you enjoyed this podcast,
please share it with a friendand pass the love on.
See you next time.
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