November 5, 2025 • 59 mins
Joining me in this episode is shamanic practitioner and osteopath Cissi Williams, who began channeling wisdom from her physical heart after her own heart attack.
Cissi shares how her actual heart became a powerful portal for healing after her heart attack. A deeply transformative journey that led to a sacred relationship with the divine feminine and ancient wisdom and the writing of her latest book: “Your Heart Knows How to Heal You: The Sacred Medicine of the Found Chambers of the Heart.”
In this episode:
- How her shamanic practice awakened communication with her physical heart after Cissi experienced a real heart attack at age 51.
- How her heart connected Cissi to ancient wisdom buried deeply within its four chambers.
- How Cissi discovered the ancient wisdom of spirit animal guides and the Goddess archetypes: Persephone, Inanna, Mary Magdalene, the Valkyries, Freya, Hecate, and Cerridwen from journeying to her heart’s chambers.
- Learn how you can discover the healing medicine found in your heart’s four chambers through shamanic wisdom and guided journey practices.
ABOUT: Cissi Williams is an osteopath, naturopath, NLP trainer, and master practitioner in hypnosis. A teacher of shamanic energy medicine and Seidr Magic, she is also initiated as a Priestess of Freyja. Cissi founded the Nordic Light Academy of Energy Medicine and the Awaken Your Inner Wisdom Podcast. She lives in the Cotswolds, England.
LINKS:
https://www.cissiwilliams.com/heart
https://www.instagram.com/cissiwilliams/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Thanks for listening to the Conscious Diva podcast.
If you're new here, I'm Tatiana.Joining me in this episode is
shamanic practitioner Sissy Williams, who began channelling
wisdom from her physical heart after her own heart attack.
In this episode, Sissy shares how her actual heart became a
powerful portal for healing. It was a deeply transformative
journey that led to a sacred relationship with the Divine
(00:29):
Feminine and ancient wisdom and the writing of her latest book,
which we discuss in this episode.
Your Heart Knows How to Heal You, the sacred medicine of the
four chambers of the heart. In this episode, we discuss how
her shamanic practice awakened communication with her physical
heart and how you can discover the healing medicine found in
your heart's 4 chambers through shamanic wisdom and guided
(00:51):
journey practices. This episode is packed with
valuable tips on how to tap intothe innate healing power that
resides within our own physical hearts.
If you enjoy this episode, please take a moment to write a
review, follow me on Instagram and share the episode.
Thank you so much for listening.Thank you so much for being here
(01:13):
today, CC. It's so lovely to chat to you
about your new book. Oh, I can see lots of little
markers in that. Your heart knows how to heal
you. The sacred medicine of the four
chambers of the heart so. Wait.
Your journey was really interesting and you were so
young when you had a heart attack. 51 and you were an
(01:33):
osteopath and you have become a shaman.
Were you interested in the shamanic path before?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I was already teaching shamanic
energy medicine, so I've been onthat path kind of consciously by
stepping into it and training init already in 2010.
But I could see that the shamanic way of working was
already present. That's actually why I started on
(01:56):
the shamanic path, because I used to do a lot of NLP coaching
and breakthrough sessions and things like that, and I
developed my own way of working,which was actually very
shamanic. And then I read a book by
Alberto Bilolder called Healing Your Past, Amending Your Future
with Solitary Ball. And as I read it, I realized, Oh
(02:17):
my God, this is what I'm doing. But what I was doing that would
take 8 hours was here shown in abeautiful mythical way so that
now when I work with that way ofworking, it's like what used to
take at least 8 hours and several sessions will now take
like less than two hours. And it was, it was my soul
(02:42):
calling me forth to step onto the path and actually e-mail
them when I got that book because we had just come out
with a magazine in Sweden. And it was also when the finance
crisis hit. And, you know, coming out with a
magazine when your practitionersyourself is a very expensive
thing. And we were out in the shops and
everything was full on. So I really didn't feel I could
(03:05):
invest that money in myself. So I emailed them and said, can
I come and do your training in exchange for me writing about it
and you having an advert in a magazine?
And they didn't reply. And I emailed four times and on
the fourth time they they replied and they said, we hear
yourself, yes, you can come. And I'm like, yes, I just knew I
(03:29):
had to do this. I just loved it and I did it for
me. I never ever in a million years
thought I would ever work with it.
I just knew my soul called me forth, you have to do this.
And it wasn't until we were on our N model, you go through the
wheel, we had to create a fire. It was part of our test.
(03:50):
And the teacher said, if you can't create the fire, then
you're going to fail and you can't continue.
And it was a stormy day. We were out in Archipelago in
Stockholm, and we were not allowed to have any sort of help
of creating this fire. And I'm like, Oh my God, this
fire is not going to take. And then it took, and I had
these three logs creating this fire like a little teepee.
(04:11):
And then suddenly they collapsed.
And I'm like, my first thought was, Oh my God, I failed this
test. And then I could see that the
logs, they fell in such a way that they created at the shape
of an arrow, and the arrow was pointing to the teacher's fire.
And I'm like, I get it. I get it.
And that's when I accepted that I was meant to oscillate to
(04:35):
teach it. Well, that's a really powerful
experience. Yeah, it's like when it bypasses
your mind. So by the time I had a heart
attack, I was already very well versed in joining into the
mystical landscape of your soul.I have a question about that.
So because you do meant you don't share that whole story at
the beginning of your book, but you talk a little bit about your
(04:57):
shamanic experiences when when we're practicing this path very
in communication, direct communication with the elements
with spirit, with our spirit guides.
Was there any inkling of you sayyou're like totally in denial
that you're having a heart attack in the story?
Oh yeah, sorry. But there must have been one
part whether your guides were saying listen to the listen to
(05:19):
what's happening. You need to go to hospital.
Like listen to your heart. Like let him take.
You well, my, my husband definitely voiced that.
I mean, when it happened, I was busy working on my podcast
episode, and then I suddenly just got this extreme acute pain
in my chest. I was so bad I fell to the
ground, was sitting on my sofa. I just fell to the floor.
(05:39):
And it was sharp. I mean, I could not breathe.
It was radiating up to my right jaw.
And it was the most severe pain I've ever experienced.
And then at the back of my mind,I kind of knew, of course, I'm
trained. And then it went away.
So I just sat back down and I was gonna start on my podcast
(06:00):
episode again. But I did send a text message to
my husband because I realised I was on my own at home and my
daughter was asleep upstairs andI didn't want to scare her.
So I sent him a text message saying don't worry.
But I've had extreme chest painsradiating up to my right
shoulder, lasted for about 5-10 minutes and now I'm fine.
(06:22):
And he was teaching osteopathic medicine in London and he does
go straight back home and he waspleading with me and and I was
like no, I'm fine, I'm fine. But he got me to go and see the
teepee. I actually didn't go and see the
teepee because I wanted to see for my heart.
I actually had a problem with myneck and I was going to run a
retreat a couple of weeks later and I was more worried about
that and she was not worried about that at all.
(06:45):
She said come in and then I wentin and then they saw on the ECT
that I had had all the signs of a heart attack and it started to
dawn on me a little bit, but I was still not feeling too bad.
And and she actually didn't sendme to hospital because I
actually look well, it's actually a problem we have.
(07:06):
My mom had the same, my youngesthas the same.
I mean my eldest too. We actually look really well
even when we were I'll. So my youngest had to go to
hospital last week and she worked for five days with a
really high fever and she was really unwell, but she looked
well. So her work didn't believe her.
So by the time she got to hospital, she had a Quincy,
(07:29):
which is like when you can't then breathe because the
infection is spreading and it creates like blockage to your
windpipe. It's actually a medical
emergency. And I could hear on her voice
that that had developed in her when I spoke to her on the
phone. So I got to go in.
So anyway, we look well. So if you are in denial, that's
not helpful because it kind of perpetuates that.
(07:53):
But in the end, I did go to hospital.
That was four days after the heart attack and they took all
sorts of tests and it was a moment there when I was on my
own and that's when it hit me that I had had a heart attack.
And my mum had one when she was 48.
(08:13):
She had a really, really bad one.
She lost 1/4 of more than 1/4 ofher heart and, and I didn't mean
I had a minor 1. So I was very, very lucky and I
saw what it did to her. She became a prisoner of her own
body and and I could feel this fear.
Kema and I share that it. I felt like this arm rising up
(08:37):
to grab me and bring me down. Hopelessness, helplessness,
feeling that this is my fate. We have a blood clotting
disorder. I have that blood clotting
disorder. So it's easier for us to get
blood clots too. My cousins died young and when
they were in their 20s and 40s from blood clots.
So I I felt that and it was so easy for me to just be sucked
(09:00):
into that. And it was paralysing.
And then at the same time, it's like I had that path opening up.
I could see this other path and it was the path of me
surrendering into my heart's wisdom, allowing my heart to
(09:20):
become my teacher, never to go on a quest to fix my heart, to
heal my heart. You know that.
You know, I did that when I was younger and started on the self
help movement and I if I just heal my thoughts, I can heal
anything. And by this stage, I was older
and wiser and I knew that's not necessarily how life works.
(09:42):
And I was just willing to surrender fully.
And I did. And I could feel in that moment,
I mean, it was a split second, Icould just feel peace, descent.
And I just knew that somehow it would all be OK.
Not that I would heal, not that I just knew somehow it would be
OK because I was now listening to my heart.
(10:06):
So when we then later drove backhome or my husband drove back
home from the hospital, I did just tune into my heart and
said, OK, I'm willing. I'm willing to listen, I'm
willing to be guided. And the first thing it did was
actually to change my diet straight away and it put me on a
really extreme diet. I would never put a patient on
because it was so extreme, but Itrusted it.
(10:26):
It had done the same. I'm going to interrupt you for a
second, sorry, just because again, you share a lot of that.
That's the first part of first chapter in your book.
And I just would love for you toshare how how your heart was to
communicating this to you, because there might be customers
who don't know who aren't accused to that wisdom.
(10:48):
I I totally understand. I practice shamanism.
My teachers, the 27th generationNepalese shaman.
So I practice in the cast Nepalitradition.
And similarly to you, my father had not a heart attack, but a
stroke. And I also carry a protein that
can make me predisposed to that.My grandfather also had a
stroke. It left my father in a, in a, a
state of very like he's totally disabled.
(11:10):
And that was 12 years ago. And I was in my 40s before
actually before I was 40 when that happened.
And it really made me radically think about my life and think
about how can a seemingly healthy picture of absolute
health. This man, he had A6 pack.
He was, he was 79, sorry, 69 at that time he was 70.
(11:31):
Looked incredible. Ran, you know, 5 miles every
day, every day, did 100 push ups, skied.
He lived in Colorado, skied like90 days of the ski season, was
very healthy. Did never smoked a day in his
life, barely drank alcohol. And so as you said, if someone
looks healthy, you just don't believe it.
How can they? How can this inner thing be
happening? And so I really wanted to
understand through epigenetics, how, how could he?
(11:55):
How could he be a carrier? Am I possibly one?
Could this happen to me and my children?
And and then similar to you, because I was on already on my
wisdom journey, my shamanic journey, I was AI could have
tuned to my spirit guides who could help, who were literally
helping me and guiding me. And I literally hear them speak
(12:15):
to me, not as a voice in my head, but as an external force.
I'm sure it's probably similar for you and feelings in my body.
So I'd just love for you to share.
How did your heart speak to you?How did it communicate these,
these life saving lessons that not only saved your life, but
healed your heart as you explainreally beautifully how you did
those journeys into the different chambers and how you
(12:36):
came up with the different chambers.
And I mean, there's just so much.
And I mean, I really, I really enjoyed your book.
And there's so many sections I'mactually going to go back and
reread and do as not read the book as like reading the book,
but actually do it to like literally go back and heal parts
of my own ancestral lines. Yeah, because it's through your
experience that you find the wisdom that is there for you,
(12:59):
the medicine that is there for you to heal it.
It's a really great question andI wish there was just an easy
answer. So, but it isn't because we
have, we are. We're all unique and different.
So your intuition will speak to you in the way that it best can
reach you. So for me, being an osteopath,
it absolutely reaches me throughmy body.
(13:20):
So I get an inner knowing and inner feeling.
When it came to the diet, it wasactually showed me physically.
So when I tried to eat potato grate I, I admittedly, it just
came up and I love potatoes. You know, I'm being, I'm
sweetish and. And I live in the UK.
And I live in the UK and it and it just showed me, no, this is
poison for you. It literally just, it just came
(13:41):
up and I still can't eat potatoes actually, which is a
real shame, but I just can't do it.
The other bits with my one. And that's because of the
starch. That's because potatoes are
starchy. Not necessarily I think.
I haven't actually gone in and diagnosed why it is because I
just know I'm allergic to it. But if I were to have a tune
(14:02):
into it, there's probably more more to do that it's
inflammatory food in that way. But for whatever reason, I'm
also allergic to vodka. You know, I actually am allergic
to alcohol, but I'm definitely allergic to vodka.
But then my dad was an alcoholicand his his poison was vodka.
So it could be all sorts of stuff lying there in why it is
potatoes for me. But for with that one, there
(14:24):
were so many other things I had to look at that I just went, OK,
my mother doesn't like potatoes.And then I just let it go.
So it's through inner knowing, inner feelings, witnessing how
your body responds. And for me, it's then especially
through the shamanic journeys. And that's what I share in the
book. The first journey in my heart
(14:46):
guided me on was the journey into the four chambers of my
heart, which is what the book isbased on.
And that's my main guide for, for tuning into any form of, of
wisdom for me, because when I'm journeying, I'm journeying
actually with my body. So I know shamanic journalist,
(15:08):
you can also journey through your third eye and you see
things and I do see things, but I especially journey through my
body very much a cranial osteo. So I'm joining through my body
through the feminine, which is actually a very feminine way of
journey. It's also what we do in Seder,
which is the Norris shamanic. We journey through our bodies
through the feeling. You know this, I can see that
(15:29):
you have experienced that. And as you journey through your
body, the body will then reveal to you also images, smells,
sounds, the information that is there, that reveals to you the
mystical landscape of your soul that is holding the wounding,
for example, that I needed to witness.
(15:51):
And then it guides me on this journey.
It's like a soul retrieval journey.
Well, you first witnessed the wounding, you witness where it
came from. It's like you start to get all
this information, what is held here in this wounding, and then
it guides you through your body and how to shift and release
this. It's completely led by the body,
(16:13):
by my heart, by the divine mothers of darkness and light
for me, because they were the ones that came to help me heal
my relationship with the feminine of darkness, which was
actually already good, and light, which is where I had my
issues because I received ratherlight from the mind, from the
masculine than the feminine. The feminine, I had so many
(16:38):
fears around receiving her nurturing love from the light.
And again, these mystical journeys showed me that and also
showed me how this was not in mypersonal history only.
This was so deep in my ancestrallineage.
(16:58):
And that journey had actually started just over a year before
my heart attack. And it was when my mum died
because it was as if she had buffered a lot of this wounding,
which was actually quite poisonous and quite venomous.
You know, the wounding in the feminine where we become vicious
(17:21):
and we turn on each other and it's the backstabbing and the
wagging of tongues and they're talking badly about all of that
that is there and all. And, you know, in the collective
and the feminine. And, and when she passed away,
that was kind of downloaded intome like a poisonous chalice.
(17:42):
And that took me on a really deep journey of healing that of
really witnessing that in myselfand in in my limit.
So that by the time the heart attack came, I was well and
truly surrendered anyway to the Divine Mothers because I
recognized I could not heal and shift this from my mind or from
(18:09):
what I previously knew. I had to be guided by a more
deeper ancient wisdom than I hadencountered before because this
was so deep where they were guiding me.
Does that make sense? Yeah, on it.
It does make sense to me. Thank you for sharing that.
I'm just going to ask you some questions to perhaps explain it
(18:31):
in another way for listeners. So you are connected to the
Norse mythology, but also Alberto Villa, he's he's in a
South American tradition. Actually, that was my
introduction and I'm really gladthat I got I was given a
structure. And it was like, is it core
shamanism that he practices? No, no, no, no, he does.
(18:53):
Sandra. Does Sandra Inguman does core
shamanism and it gave me a structure and a door in but the
moment I started to join in, I was never met by any of the
spirit beings from the and my Sonis and Anderson.
What came was the Norse goddesses, the Norse goddesses,
and then they later introduced me to the Celtic ones.
(19:14):
It's like my own ancestral wisdom started to emerge from
that because that's that's my medicine, but it gave me a way
in and and because it's still alive that practice.
So but once, once I was in. So I don't do any of of his
(19:35):
practices anymore because this has evolved into something
completely different. No, I figured that, I figured
that. And of course you, you, it's all
for your book and then the journeys that you you're
presenting in here. But I, I just, I wanted to just,
you know, have you clarify that,you know, for, for listeners who
may be familiar with shamanism, but also it might be new, a new,
a new, not a new topic, but maybe just concepts, you know.
(19:58):
And so with that, so you met these Norse goddesses.
Just share a little bit about who your key Again.
Also interestingly, I don't really think of Mary Magdalene
as a Norse goddess. No, no, no, no.
But she still works with me a lot.
Totally. Perfect in the book because
again, I'm very much based here in England and Glastonbury and
(20:18):
all of that. And she embodies both the
darkness and the light in her. And she also embodies how she
was silenced for 1500 years, howthey twisted and distorted who
she truly is, and how her consciousness is rising within.
Oh yeah, no, I. Just like it's rising within us.
So when she came and wanted to part of the book, I'm like, Oh
(20:40):
yes, absolutely. And that's a beautiful journey.
I did that journey. I, I listened to it.
I really loved it. It was such a, a beautiful
experience for me and for listeners.
If you want to listen it, it's free, it's on your website, you
can go to ccwilliamsitsforwardslashheart.com.
Is that correct? And you can totally listen to
that one there. And also a journey for the to,
(21:01):
to the four chambers of the heart.
So just backtrack a little bit quickly explain what are the
four chambers of the heart? Which of your goddesses who
guided you to discover these chambers?
It was actually my heart that guided me.
So what I did was I just knew I had to join in.
And that's what was very shortlyafter we came home from the
(21:21):
hospital. I just felt it's time to join
in. And I joined it in following the
flow of the blood, the way it flows through the four chambers.
And it was really cool because this journey was so clear from
the beginning. And after the journey, I had to
just go and tell my husband. You will never believe what I
discovered. I say journey drumming, were
(21:42):
you? Drumming for yourself or you
just kind of no no. No, I was rattling.
I was using a rattling. So the way the way I did this,
since you're working with shamanic stuff, I actually held
a hand on the different heart structures.
That's what we do as as osteopaths.
And then I journeyed with my battle.
(22:03):
But the way I teach it in the book, I have mapped it into the
mythical landscape, but the way I journey it was actually in
through the physical structures.Anyway, I followed the flow of
the blood and I came to the first heart chamber.
This is where the blood comes, when it's now deoxygenated.
And so it's coming back to the heart late to go up to the lungs
(22:24):
to become filled with oxygen again.
So it's not poor in oxygen. And as it came into the first
chamber, it was like I realized this is when it's poor in
spirit. This is like the season of
autumn when everything in life that is poor in spirit is not
meant to be shared, released, let go.
(22:44):
And I'm like, this is so cool. So this is like early autumn.
And then I actually followed theflow of the blood also through
the valve, which I haven't shared in the book, but that's
the autumn equinox. And I realized that this is the
autumn equinox now. And I moved into the second
chamber. And here I was met by the dark
goddesses. And they said, this is our
(23:05):
domain, this is what it's like in early winter when we move
into that sacred darkness. We're moving deeper into
ourselves. And this is when we really
witness our shadows, our deep inner wounds that we're meant to
transform because we now let go.So that is no longer kind of
(23:26):
stopping us from joining, and now we instead can just be here
in that darkness. And this is a real powerhouse in
the heart. It's also a real powerhouse.
If we think of the wheel of the here, that early winter where it
looks as if nothing is happening, but such a deep
transformation is taking place. We're really, when we allow
(23:50):
ourselves to surrender to it, we're really transforming.
It's like coming into the cauldron of the Dark Mother,
really surrendering into that. And the Dark Mothers are
definitely my main teachers. And then I followed the flow of
the blood it. Made me think of Kali and Oh
yeah, it's it's mothers got, youknow, the great the the Maha,
(24:12):
yeah, the 10 great mothers in the Vedic tradition.
Tantra. I was really like.
All the dark mothers all and they what's beautiful with the
dark mothers is that they are all so similar.
Regardless of tradition, they all carry the same medicine and
just expressed through differentaccents.
And they all have this holy fire.
They all are portals of life, death and rebirth.
(24:35):
And they have all been so distorted by patriarchy and they
are loving. They are loving, they are
loving. They are scary to the ego
because it's like an ego's death.
Completely like the store of Inanna which I share about in
the second heart chamber becausethat's the complete ego death we
have to move through in in orderto them late to be resurrected.
(24:59):
Anyway, all of that is here in the second heart chamber.
And I followed the flow of the blood and I went up to the lungs
and I saw my lungs as this cosmic Angel.
I could not believe this was just so-called breathing in
inspiration, breathing in light,breathing in medicine, breathing
in life, that new expression of life.
(25:22):
And I realized this is what we are experiencing at the winter
solstice. In the midst of of the darkness,
the light is reborn. And I'm like, this is amazing.
This is happening in my body forevery heartbeat and it's
happening out there in life. I mean, it was so incredible.
(25:43):
Then I followed the flow of the blood and I went down to the
third heart chamber. And here it was like I was now
bringing back all that light, all that oxygen.
If when I think of the blood, all that medicine into my heart.
And here I was met by the light mothers who are all solar
goddesses, and they were showingme that this is early spring and
(26:05):
a special actually early spring.And like the Arctic where my
ancestors are from that beautiful light from the sun,
it's very gentle. It's very soft, but it's very
powerful because as nature receives her light, all that
which is frozen melts. Yeah.
(26:26):
So life, the magic of life can be ignited again and and again.
It's just amazing when we recognize that.
And this is also where I had a problem in my heart because.
And they said it's because you're good at receiving it from
the divine source, but then you just want to bring it straight
through your heart and down intothe 4th chamber and out into the
(26:49):
body, out into the world. So we're keeping some for you
and I later, it was probably about two weeks after I did this
journey, I had an echocardiogramwhere they could see that the
valve here is leaking. So it's like blood comes back
into my third chamber, which I thought was really cool that I
actually could see that through the shamanic journeys.
(27:10):
And that's not a big problem. My main problem here was late in
the coroner arteries, but I had an issue there and then I
followed the flow of the blood coming into the 4th heart
chamber and again here I could see this was like early summer
where we have, we have received so much light that our dreams
and our visions and that new life we have received from the
(27:32):
divine source. It's now grown and grown and
grown within us and now it's blossoming.
Now it's going through its own rebirth, just like nature does.
And then from the 4th chamber, it then takes all this
blossoming, all this light, all this medicine, all this life out
(27:53):
into the body. And my heart was showing me the
body is a representation of the world.
So this is what you and I meant to do, to bring all this life,
all that which is blossoming within you, all your gifts and
share them with the world. And it was, it was just so
(28:15):
beautiful to recognize that thiscycle, seasons of darkness and
light, the medicine of both the darkness and the light of the
feminine is happening within my heart.
And it was this that my heart wanted to show me.
You need both of the feminine. You need to heal your
(28:37):
relationship with the mother within you, with the ancient
mothers within you. That is what's going on guide
you take you on the path that wehave planned for you and and it
really did that. Another one actually with the
heart, which I do share in the book.
And I feel that this is, this was so it meant so much for me
(29:02):
when I saw that. And they shared about my
coronary arteries because that'swhere I had an issue.
And I had an issue on one of my left coronary arteries.
And when I joined it in to work on my coronal arteries, they
were showing me that just like the body is a representation of
(29:22):
the world, the heart is a representation of us.
And the coronal arteries, their only function is to supply the
heart. And they showed me that the
coronal arteries are the rivers of blood connecting you with
your ancestors I. Thought that was so amazing and
described in your book. And then and as they then join
(29:45):
it with me, I had to witness thewounds in my ancestral lineage
so that I could then be guided through this process of healing,
that I instead could receive themedicine and especially the
wounds actually held in in the left for me, which it was all
about the sisterhood and all of that.
That was that. And again, it made so much sense
(30:08):
when I when I, when I saw that. And you can't make this up.
That's the power of journey because when you journey in,
you're being met by this deeper wisdom that goes beyond your
mind and you can feel the truth in your bones.
Yeah. And that's that.
It's true. Gosh, I wish that shamanism was
(30:30):
taught more openly, you know, because we do have these natural
innate gifts, these abilities to, to alter our states of
consciousness without taking drugs or mind altering
substances. And, and there are places for
that in, in medically, you know,supervised environments that
that psychedelics are really helping people that, who have,
(30:51):
who have experienced extreme trauma and their things are
locked within their bodies. But if you are able to have this
experience of the journey with they've guided A practitioner, A
shamanic practitioner, they're so expansive and just so
unexpected. And we're shown these amazing
things that are so real. I mean, we're literally crossing
(31:15):
the veil, stepping into these other realms of reality that
we're so taught, particularly inthe West, that they're not real.
It's your imagination. You're making it up.
You're crazy. What are you, what are you
talking about? But they're, you know, when we
really allow ourselves to be, toattune to this sacred medicine,
these experiences are like life changing.
Absolutely, absolutely. And they really do have an
(31:38):
impact on not only on on your physically, but on your life
because it changes you completely and actually about
that. So for example, my students are
not allowed to take any psychedelics, anything like
that. It's not part of certainly not
part of how I would share it or teach it because when you are
(32:00):
the power we step into the deeper we go for when we learn
how to join in like this, because it that takes time to
develop the power that you access is so powerful that first
of all, you don't need drugs. Well.
You're learning how to drop intothat space on your.
Mind you develop exactly you're developing your own strength,
(32:21):
your own ability. To cultivate.
That, and therefore it is alwayssafe.
Yeah. It's like, it's like if you go
trekking up the mountains, if you develop your own strength to
do it, then it's safe. Well, if you just fly out, then
you can get all sorts of problems and then you also own
it, you know, when you develop that ability.
(32:42):
For me, that's been the greatestgift I've ever given myself is
to learn how to do shamanic journey because it gives me so
much access to our wisdom that is not available in my everyday
consciousness. But that is longing I feel.
(33:04):
I feel it's a she for me. She's longing to rise and become
part of being weaved into this world.
And I do feel so passionately that it is her medicine that is
needed in our world, the medicine of this wise feminine
(33:25):
presence that's been suppressed and silenced and distorted for
so long. And I do feel we are hearing her
now. We hear her calling us to make
this journey of descent. And when we then start this
journey and we develop our own ability to do it, trusting that
it is safe, your body loves you,it will only reveal to you that
(33:48):
which you are ready to witness. Yes.
Always, always. Yes, even when I work with my
clients, it's amazing and and spirit will always check in and
I'll say, OK, they want to know,can you do you want to hear
more? Because they don't, they don't
think your body's physically ready as in, you know,
translation, your nervous system's not going to be able to
(34:09):
take it uses as far as we can gotoday because there's so much
has arisen and so much has been revealed that you need to now go
do the work and process and and follow the guide, the
instinctual guidance that's comefrom you from a higher place so
that you can really heal yourself.
And sometimes we of course need,like in the instance of you with
your heart attack, you needed togo to hospital.
(34:29):
We needed to have an the ECG andyou needed to be shown, you know
that this is happening even though you were being told, you
know, in other in in other realms, in other ways, but you
needed to be told. Of course, they could then help
you with that. And I loved in your book how
they said the doctors after you doing your journey work for two
years. They just, they were like, hang
on a SEC. Did she actually have?
(34:51):
Yeah, I know. Corny.
Did she really have this problem?
I. Think they're so healed.
Yeah. I know something that's really
cool with that was that me and my youngest, we actually went on
a bit of a journey. We join it into the darkness for
a whole month in November to really meet the darkness.
We join it up to the Arctic Circle and we spent a month
(35:12):
there. Oh.
You literally journey like yeah.Yeah, yeah, we literally went
there. Yeah, we.
Literally a physical journey. Not a, not a no, no.
We actually literally went thereand then we literally went there
also at the end of May for the Midnight sun to now really meet
and embrace the light. And we both had more issues for
the light and the darkness. And of course, in my heart,
(35:33):
that's where the issues were when we were there.
I got a call from my DP saying we want you to come in.
And I'm like, well, actually I'm, I'm up in the Arctic Circle
right now. So it's the way.
And I said, OK, can you come in when you're back and say sure,
sure, sure. So that was when I went in, I
was, I went in to see the GP about a few days after I had
(35:54):
been back to really immerse myself in the light when it's
like 24/7, really be in that medicine of the light.
And that's when they told me, yeah, their cardiology unit,
they want to discharge you. They think they might have made
a mistake because they can't find anything wrong with you.
And I'm like, that's fine, that's cool.
And I knew that that wasn't a coincidence, that that also
(36:18):
happened just after I had been physically in the land of my
ancestors in the light. Yeah.
Because that whole journey was about honoring the medicine and
the wisdom that my heart had shown me by also walking the
lands. And you know, my daughter and I
did that. You're listening to your 4
(36:39):
chambers of the heart journey. And interestingly in my
daughter's 16 we both like didn't.
I wouldn't say completely fell asleep, but definitely drifted
into another space at the exact same time just before the 4th
chamber and with them. Interesting.
Yes, yes. So that's an issue.
Yes, yes, and. This is what it's a 26 minute
(37:00):
practice. It's a 36 minute.
It's not very long. 2626. Minutes.
Yeah, so, so we've we came up atthe same time and we looked at
each other and she said I think I, I missed the 4th chamber and
I said so did I? Interesting.
I'm like this. How interesting.
There's definitely something there.
And again, that's the light feminine.
That's actually when you're stepping into the real magic of
(37:23):
her. Yeah, it's the it's like that
magic that creates the rebirth. Yeah, it's the real power.
So that's you look at now, the 4th chamber.
It's actually when you're journeying with Freya as
Gulveda, which is the ancient witch that rebuts herself,
whatever the sky gods, which represents the mind, do to her
when they try to spear her and burn her.
(37:45):
So they try to kill her three times.
Each time she rises, they can't kill her.
And it's actually from that moment that they then recognize
that they're in the presence of greatness and they represent the
mind. And then I'm in the presence of
greatness because Freya is the soul.
She represents this ever lastinglife of the soul that has the
(38:07):
ability to birth life. And that's when Odin becomes her
students. It's like the mind now bows to
the power and the wisdom of the soul, and then it can be taught.
Yeah. Yeah.
Really, really beautiful. I definitely, that's why I said
(38:29):
earlier, I need to go back and like really go, you know, like
sit with a few of the things that came up for me that that I
felt, you know, you feel it in your body.
That's the truth, right? You know, it's like, OK, there's
something that I'm that's been that needs to come up, that
needs to arise. And then for the last week, my
right leg has been just showing me there's like pain, physical
(38:53):
pain. It's been wanting to come up and
and leave. So I've been doing a lot of like
tuning into that. What is this interesting that
needs to come out? That's you know, who is it who,
who or what, what timeline is? Is it associated with?
It feels like my mother. It's really interesting, but and
and the ancestors and her line and so.
(39:15):
Interesting. You see, that's really
interesting because in the book I share more about working with
because there's so many different ways of working with
these metaphors. So one of the ways of working
with the metaphor of the true oflife is that on the right you
have the masculine, on the left you have the feminine.
However, these days I work a lotmore with Seder and then we turn
(39:35):
in on really connecting with thefeminine on both the right and
the left. And then the right is the
structural feminine, the holder that is more like progesterone
in the body. So pro gastation number one that
creates the cauldron for your magic to grow.
So this is when you would have had real structural magic of the
(39:58):
feminine that can hold that. Power.
And then on the left, it's the fire of feminine, more of the
estrogen that ignites the spark of your magic.
So interesting. It could be something in there
too, about that structural feminine, which many of us have
(40:19):
have ignored, thinking that the structure comes from the
masculine. It's actually quite an
interesting story. With that, I won't share too
much, but do you know Sarah Bartram?
Sarah Bertrand. Sarah Bertrand, who wrote Room
Awakening and Mara Magdalene revealed.
So she's amazing. She's amazing.
And she was teaching the same time, the same week as I started
(40:42):
to journey and connect with the structural feminine of the Queen
of Ice from the North Sagas. You have ice and fire, and she
was talking about exactly the same thing.
So it is definitely rising, thatancient awareness, knowing of
the structural feminine. Yeah.
(41:04):
It's it's interesting when I wasfirst being introduced or called
to the shamanic path. It's definitely a calling, isn't
it? It is a calling for sure.
And I, I had no idea who my teacher was going to be, you
know, who was going to reveal themselves.
I didn't, I, I just knew that it, I, I instinctly knew it
wasn't the South American lineage through that path.
(41:25):
And, and I just thought, no, that's not, that's not what I'm
drawn to. That's not the, you know, the
space. But I was drawn to Sandra
Ingerman, interestingly, and youhave to write a letter to Sandra
to get her to, to work with you or respond to you or whatever,
like start, you know, to correspond directly with you,
(41:45):
you've got to write a handwritten letter.
So I did that and, and she, and then in that letter, you include
your e-mail and then she'll, she'll reply to you with your,
through your, you know, her personal e-mail.
And so she did. And so we struck up this
relationship and I did some journeys with her and similarly
to you with Alberto. It was a great introduction into
how to journey into that space to alter my state of
(42:06):
consciousness and my awareness and to be taken to different
realms and have these experiences and what was coming
through. In terms of the the beings, they
were much more in the, the Hinduand Vedic tradition,
interestingly. And so one of them was actually
Nagakanya, who's the serpent goddess in my teacher, the Kas
(42:27):
Nepali tradition. They really are are they have a
very, he particularly has a verystrong relationship with her.
Without going into the whole story through a series of months
over almost about 6 to 8 months,I was guided to actually meet my
teacher who, who is in that tradition, who then asked me all
about, you know, did I have a, adeity?
Did I have her as a statue? And I said yes.
(42:48):
But the, the whole, the coming back full circle, part of that
was I let Sandra know, I said, Oh my God, I had this crazy
experience. I, you know, met this guy, was
guided to this person, this teacher.
And I didn't say teacher at the time.
I said I was, you know, met, guided to this, you know,
shaman. And she wrote back almost
immediately an e-mail and said, I'm so happy you found your
(43:11):
teacher. And, you know, by the way, I
know him. Here's his e-mail.
And I because I hadn't even met him really yet.
I had just discovered him and felt Oh my God, this is the
person and I had ordered a book and on the front like it was his
name. And then she had written the
foreword. Oh.
Wow, yeah. And I was like, OK, you've known
all along. She would always say journey on
(43:32):
it, journey on it, journey from the answers, journey on it.
You know, I'm like, that's not what I'm looking for.
Tell me. I don't want, I don't want to
have to journey on it, but you have to because that's where the
you'd really have to strengthen that muscle to do that.
But anyway, I just wanted to share that but.
And that's also how you trust itbecause you received it
yourself. It's like, it's that it builds
(43:55):
such a deep trust within you when when you receive that.
Yeah, rather than when someone tells you.
But the point of that story was a lot came up around my Japanese
ancestry and coming from my grandmother's, my grandmother's
Japanese, but my, my maternal grandmother and my mom carries a
lot of the, the history, the trauma as a female and, and from
(44:21):
Japan. And there's so much of that was
shown to me. So not only were these Vedic or
Indian or Hindu northern Himalayan gods actually from
goddesses, country goddesses, there was a lot of crossover
with the a new people in Japan and like Japanese shamanism and
all these other beings that werecoming forward.
(44:41):
And it was and they're very connected just based on India
and China and Japan sort of got a lot of crossover thing with
with Buddhism and tons of Buddhism advise Rihanna coming
over. But but anyway, that was I
totally digress. But that was the point of that
story. But it but it did.
It does show though, that once you open the door, you will be
(45:07):
met by that which is for you, yes.
So you can be guided on that path.
And I find that that is actuallyreally amazing with the students
I work on, even though the our framework is very much sader,
very much the North, I know thatthey will awaken their ancient
wisdom and what comes through isvery different depending on
(45:31):
their ancestral lineage. So and, and, and that's because
that's theirs, that's for them. That's what they are calling
forth through their roots from their ancestors.
And, and I love that. I love that.
So it's just, you just need a door, you need a way in.
And I'm be held in a framework initially as you're developing
(45:54):
your own framework, your own strength, your own cauldron to
hold your magic. And then you kind of move with
your cauldron now and you are, you're on your way.
So. So, yeah, yeah.
So in in your book, I love that you talk about the serpent
mother. It's this is AI think a very a
(46:18):
timely topic, but also, as you say, a very she's a very, very
misunderstood. Goddess share how she's
misunderstood. Oh, gosh, so there are so many,
so many different ways in that. So first of all, many of us
(46:42):
actually have a real snake phobia.
I do. I actually have a real snake
phobia. So I absolutely understand when
people are saying to me, I can'twork, you know, with, with
snakes or serpents because I wassnake phobia and I go, so do I.
But that's not how she reveals herself to me.
She reveals herself to me in a way that she knows I'm
(47:02):
comfortable with. Just like many have spider
phobias. And of course, we work with,
with the spirit weavers. So, so there are many different
ways actually with this. One is we have the patriarchal
and I'll talk about that soon. But one is that I feel that the
serpent comes with many, many, many different medicines.
(47:25):
One is that she shows us how theimportance of shedding her skin
and that we don't just shed it once per year, we shed it
several times. Whenever we feel we're outgrown
our old way of being, we're meant to shed it.
And it's also how she sheds to keep herself healthy because she
sheds down old illnesses, old disease, and she's doing it not
(47:47):
just by doing a little bit at a time.
Once she starts, she will do thewhole structure, will take her a
while, but you know, she keeps on going, she keeps on going and
it's very beautiful and very graceful the way she does it.
So she's actually a very, very gentle healer when she's helping
us to shed, which is how I mainly teach her medicine.
(48:09):
For me personally, she is also showing me that how we can have
the venom or the medicine and how she carries both.
It's like that duality in that and how we can be in the venom.
Because I saw these ancestral woundings as these poisonous
(48:32):
snakes, the venom of that. And she showed me that, yes,
when we go into bitterness, blame when we're not in our
power, so we start to, you know,try to manipulate, trying to get
our way in different ways. And we are them being trapped in
what I see as the eager minds, distorted filters.
(48:55):
We can feel that venom built within us and it starts to
poison us. And we can also take action from
this and like a poisonous tongue, spread it.
And she showed me, yes, you can be there or you can be within
me. And let me show you how to be
the conjuits through which this heals.
(49:18):
And now you develop the medicine, the antidote that
heals this. And I can't remember the whole
myth, but it is about Medusa. So Medusa is one of these
beautiful goddesses that's been so misunderstood.
And she really showed me a lot of this medicine when I joined
with her some years back. And I can't remember the whole
(49:40):
myth now, but there is an aspectof that myth when they're flying
with, I think it's with her actually, with this part of her,
this snake, where on one side the poison falls and on the
other side the medicine falls. And I could see so clearly.
It's like we can have this splitwithin us, which is where these
(50:03):
distortions come, or we can choose to be the bearer of the
medicine of it, that that that heals it through our own alchemy
of that. And that is what she actually
represents for me. It's that alchemy of that.
(50:23):
And then the misunderstanding ofher is when we get caught in
that split. Yeah.
When we look at the patriarchy, when I look at Eve and the
serpent and all of that. So, you know, there we have tree
of good and Evil, which is the tree of life, which is a
representation of the Mother Goddess.
(50:44):
And on her you have these fruitsof wisdom.
Yeah, you're not supposed to eatthem.
And then Eve listens to the serpent, who tells her to eat of
the fruit of this tree. And the serpent is a messenger
of the goddess, so it's the Goddess telling Eve.
(51:04):
For goodness sake, eat the fruitof your own.
Wisdom. Wake up, woman.
Wake exactly wake up. And then as she wakes up, she
goes and tells Adam it's time toeat.
And I do feel that is what is now we're awakening to that.
Oh my God, that is what it means.
And not this distorted lie. The twisting of no, this was you
(51:31):
shouldn't eat of this. And the serpent was evil.
And then Eve got us all to be cast out of heaven and condemned
to original sin and all of that craziness that has followed us
for such a long time. And I do feel the serpent mother
is one of these key aspects. To be able to track it all the
(51:54):
way back in time where that split happened and then make a
different choice. Yes, I totally agree with you.
And there's quite a few authors actually who've been published
by Inner Traditions that write about this.
Miss Smith and Andrew Collins talks about how the site in
Turkey, Karahan Tepe, is all about serpent, serpent worship.
(52:17):
And then there's also the the theory of a missing 13th
constellation. That's a snake.
That's a. Serpent.
That's actually when I'm born, because you've seen that in
December, yes. No.
Interesting and. That is the bearer of that, and
again the bearer of that the theperson or the medicine.
Yes. And then and it's interesting
that that's just been omitted, you know?
(52:38):
Yeah, because it's purely, of course, if you look at the Vedic
tradition, they actually do recognize the serpent.
They have Ketu and Rahu, which is the serpent's head and tail.
You know these different nodes in the sky.
Same in in the Norse tradition here, you know, she always comes
with her snakes. So that, I mean, in all the
goddess tradition, they knew this is, you know, it's a, it's
(53:03):
a embodiment of feminine wisdom.Yeah, and, and even Shiva has
the godship, has Basuki the serpent who's around his neck
who actually helped suck the poison out of the ocean of milk
mid story. Again, amazing.
Yes, yeah, Yeah, it is that and it is.
I mean, I do feel that that we are awakening.
(53:25):
And as we're awakening, we have to do this kind of witnessing of
all these distorted lies and untruths that we have got caught
in that. I mean, I had one of them
actually. But when it came to the
kundalini energy won't go in on that too much now.
But let's just say that I join it so deep that I saw the three
(53:49):
norms, which are the three spirit weavers in the in the
Norse tradition. And, and they are represented in
your body actually as human indial sheets, but that's a
different story. But many indial sheets cover
obviously the brain and the spinal cord.
And they showed me that they were also like these three
(54:09):
kundalini rising energies of thesilver, the moon and the sun,
the gold, and then the life force for them as their and as
their powers, as their weaving ability.
So I again, and that just came in a spontaneous shamanic
journey. And I realized I'm tapping into
(54:30):
something. This is going to these deeper,
deeper truths here. Yeah.
Yeah, beautiful. I love that.
And so on the topic of weaving, you have at the end of your
book, you know, connecting, coming back to source and
weaving dreams into reality. Yeah, that's when you then are
(54:52):
in the from the 4th Heart chamber.
You have now received all of those dreams and visions, all
that medicine, all that new expression of life, and you have
allowed it to grow. And now you're meant to weave it
into your life. You're meant to share it.
You know, they're not just for you.
(55:13):
Just like imagine if the 4th heart chamber would not release
the blood, it would just hold itto itself.
I mean, we would die and it's the same.
We're meant to let it flow. We're meant to share it.
These are not gifts for us, they're gifts for everybody.
And the Spirit weavers, they really help us understand, I
(55:34):
feel the beauty of weaving into the web of life that it's not
just about you, It's about weaving it into that whole
structure of life that holds us.And whoever you share something
(55:54):
with will then find its way intothe weed and that energy will
then be weaved from them and them.
And then it has that ripple effect all the way out.
And I think so many can get stuck on, oh, but how will I
birth this? How will I share it?
And it's like you just share it.And the way you show up, you
weave it into your life, throughthe way you speak with your
(56:17):
loved ones, the way you, the wayyou share some of your writing,
the way you share your love and your presence, that's how you
weave it into your life. And we're weaving all the time,
yeah. Thank you, I love that.
So beautiful. And so you have ways for people
to work with you. You have your own podcast get
(56:38):
people can listen to you but terrible things.
Yes, I am passionate by sharing shamanic journeys.
So on the podcast Awaken Your Inner Wisdom, you have loads of
shamanic journeys. Many were actually recorded live
on the shamanic training becauseit is 3 you do moving through
your own experience that it awakens within you.
(56:58):
You also got many interviews andsome lectures and things on the
podcast. And then I run various online
courses. You can do online courses for
your own development again, sharing these incredible goddess
myths and teachings and what they mean and then guiding us on
these journeys into the mythicallandscape of our soul.
(57:19):
And you can do that. Some many of them are live
webinars, but they're also recorded and you do that for
you. And then, of course, you know
you have some dedicated few thatreally feel the cool and they
want to come and train, but that's a long in terms training
to become a master practitioner in shaman again in to medicine
(57:41):
and say the medic, but that's a long training, minimum two years
do. You have to go in person, come
to the UK. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So a lot of it is held online, but it's held online live and
you actually have to attend every module.
So that can be a bit of a shock.It's a proper training.
I mean, I'm a, I'm an osteopath,so I've based my training on how
(58:03):
I was trained as an osteopath. So we do a lot of clinic errors,
a lot of practice because that'show you develop it.
And there are exams and case studies and also a lot of having
to witness yourself, witness your shadows.
It's really intense spiritual work.
And I know a lot of people in the first camp they go, they may
(58:23):
not have been ready for that, but they certainly will realise
the moment they they start. Yeah, before you can heal
others, you have to heal yourself.
Absolutely. Continue.
Journey. It's a continued thing.
Absolutely. You can only guide someone to
the depth you've been yourself. Yes.
You know that's with this. This is the difference between
(58:44):
being a practitioner in the shamanic tradition and maybe if
you're like, a mentor or coach. But this comes from your
experience, your own wisdom through lived experience.
Yeah. Love it so your website and all
your socials please share. OK, so CC williams.com, Nordic
(59:09):
Light dot Academy and CC Williams on Instagram.
I don't really like Facebook. I'm on Facebook too but I prefer
Instagram. All of those links will be on
the show notes page as well. They'll all be there but CC.
It was such a pleasure to talk to you.
This was awesome I think. This has been lovely.
Thank you Sir. I'm absolutely love chatting
(59:30):
with you. Actually, it's been amazing.
Thank you.
Thanks for listening to the Conscious Diva podcast.
If you're new here, I'm Tatiana.Joining me in this episode is
shamanic practitioner Sissy Williams, who began channelling
wisdom from her physical heart after her own heart attack.
In this episode, Sissy shares how her actual heart became a
powerful portal for healing. It was a deeply transformative
journey that led to a sacred relationship with the Divine
(00:29):
Feminine and ancient wisdom and the writing of her latest book,
which we discuss in this episode.
Your Heart Knows How to Heal You, the sacred medicine of the
four chambers of the heart. In this episode, we discuss how
her shamanic practice awakened communication with her physical
heart and how you can discover the healing medicine found in
your heart's 4 chambers through shamanic wisdom and guided
(00:51):
journey practices. This episode is packed with
valuable tips on how to tap intothe innate healing power that
resides within our own physical hearts.
If you enjoy this episode, please take a moment to write a
review, follow me on Instagram and share the episode.
Thank you so much for listening.Thank you so much for being here
(01:13):
today, CC. It's so lovely to chat to you
about your new book. Oh, I can see lots of little
markers in that. Your heart knows how to heal
you. The sacred medicine of the four
chambers of the heart so. Wait.
Your journey was really interesting and you were so
young when you had a heart attack. 51 and you were an
(01:33):
osteopath and you have become a shaman.
Were you interested in the shamanic path before?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I was already teaching shamanic
energy medicine, so I've been onthat path kind of consciously by
stepping into it and training init already in 2010.
But I could see that the shamanic way of working was
already present. That's actually why I started on
(01:56):
the shamanic path, because I used to do a lot of NLP coaching
and breakthrough sessions and things like that, and I
developed my own way of working,which was actually very
shamanic. And then I read a book by
Alberto Bilolder called Healing Your Past, Amending Your Future
with Solitary Ball. And as I read it, I realized, Oh
(02:17):
my God, this is what I'm doing. But what I was doing that would
take 8 hours was here shown in abeautiful mythical way so that
now when I work with that way ofworking, it's like what used to
take at least 8 hours and several sessions will now take
like less than two hours. And it was, it was my soul
(02:42):
calling me forth to step onto the path and actually e-mail
them when I got that book because we had just come out
with a magazine in Sweden. And it was also when the finance
crisis hit. And, you know, coming out with a
magazine when your practitionersyourself is a very expensive
thing. And we were out in the shops and
everything was full on. So I really didn't feel I could
(03:05):
invest that money in myself. So I emailed them and said, can
I come and do your training in exchange for me writing about it
and you having an advert in a magazine?
And they didn't reply. And I emailed four times and on
the fourth time they they replied and they said, we hear
yourself, yes, you can come. And I'm like, yes, I just knew I
(03:29):
had to do this. I just loved it and I did it for
me. I never ever in a million years
thought I would ever work with it.
I just knew my soul called me forth, you have to do this.
And it wasn't until we were on our N model, you go through the
wheel, we had to create a fire. It was part of our test.
(03:50):
And the teacher said, if you can't create the fire, then
you're going to fail and you can't continue.
And it was a stormy day. We were out in Archipelago in
Stockholm, and we were not allowed to have any sort of help
of creating this fire. And I'm like, Oh my God, this
fire is not going to take. And then it took, and I had
these three logs creating this fire like a little teepee.
(04:11):
And then suddenly they collapsed.
And I'm like, my first thought was, Oh my God, I failed this
test. And then I could see that the
logs, they fell in such a way that they created at the shape
of an arrow, and the arrow was pointing to the teacher's fire.
And I'm like, I get it. I get it.
And that's when I accepted that I was meant to oscillate to
(04:35):
teach it. Well, that's a really powerful
experience. Yeah, it's like when it bypasses
your mind. So by the time I had a heart
attack, I was already very well versed in joining into the
mystical landscape of your soul.I have a question about that.
So because you do meant you don't share that whole story at
the beginning of your book, but you talk a little bit about your
(04:57):
shamanic experiences when when we're practicing this path very
in communication, direct communication with the elements
with spirit, with our spirit guides.
Was there any inkling of you sayyou're like totally in denial
that you're having a heart attack in the story?
Oh yeah, sorry. But there must have been one
part whether your guides were saying listen to the listen to
(05:19):
what's happening. You need to go to hospital.
Like listen to your heart. Like let him take.
You well, my, my husband definitely voiced that.
I mean, when it happened, I was busy working on my podcast
episode, and then I suddenly just got this extreme acute pain
in my chest. I was so bad I fell to the
ground, was sitting on my sofa. I just fell to the floor.
(05:39):
And it was sharp. I mean, I could not breathe.
It was radiating up to my right jaw.
And it was the most severe pain I've ever experienced.
And then at the back of my mind,I kind of knew, of course, I'm
trained. And then it went away.
So I just sat back down and I was gonna start on my podcast
(06:00):
episode again. But I did send a text message to
my husband because I realised I was on my own at home and my
daughter was asleep upstairs andI didn't want to scare her.
So I sent him a text message saying don't worry.
But I've had extreme chest painsradiating up to my right
shoulder, lasted for about 5-10 minutes and now I'm fine.
(06:22):
And he was teaching osteopathic medicine in London and he does
go straight back home and he waspleading with me and and I was
like no, I'm fine, I'm fine. But he got me to go and see the
teepee. I actually didn't go and see the
teepee because I wanted to see for my heart.
I actually had a problem with myneck and I was going to run a
retreat a couple of weeks later and I was more worried about
that and she was not worried about that at all.
(06:45):
She said come in and then I wentin and then they saw on the ECT
that I had had all the signs of a heart attack and it started to
dawn on me a little bit, but I was still not feeling too bad.
And and she actually didn't sendme to hospital because I
actually look well, it's actually a problem we have.
(07:06):
My mom had the same, my youngesthas the same.
I mean my eldest too. We actually look really well
even when we were I'll. So my youngest had to go to
hospital last week and she worked for five days with a
really high fever and she was really unwell, but she looked
well. So her work didn't believe her.
So by the time she got to hospital, she had a Quincy,
(07:29):
which is like when you can't then breathe because the
infection is spreading and it creates like blockage to your
windpipe. It's actually a medical
emergency. And I could hear on her voice
that that had developed in her when I spoke to her on the
phone. So I got to go in.
So anyway, we look well. So if you are in denial, that's
not helpful because it kind of perpetuates that.
(07:53):
But in the end, I did go to hospital.
That was four days after the heart attack and they took all
sorts of tests and it was a moment there when I was on my
own and that's when it hit me that I had had a heart attack.
And my mum had one when she was 48.
(08:13):
She had a really, really bad one.
She lost 1/4 of more than 1/4 ofher heart and, and I didn't mean
I had a minor 1. So I was very, very lucky and I
saw what it did to her. She became a prisoner of her own
body and and I could feel this fear.
Kema and I share that it. I felt like this arm rising up
(08:37):
to grab me and bring me down. Hopelessness, helplessness,
feeling that this is my fate. We have a blood clotting
disorder. I have that blood clotting
disorder. So it's easier for us to get
blood clots too. My cousins died young and when
they were in their 20s and 40s from blood clots.
So I I felt that and it was so easy for me to just be sucked
(09:00):
into that. And it was paralysing.
And then at the same time, it's like I had that path opening up.
I could see this other path and it was the path of me
surrendering into my heart's wisdom, allowing my heart to
(09:20):
become my teacher, never to go on a quest to fix my heart, to
heal my heart. You know that.
You know, I did that when I was younger and started on the self
help movement and I if I just heal my thoughts, I can heal
anything. And by this stage, I was older
and wiser and I knew that's not necessarily how life works.
(09:42):
And I was just willing to surrender fully.
And I did. And I could feel in that moment,
I mean, it was a split second, Icould just feel peace, descent.
And I just knew that somehow it would all be OK.
Not that I would heal, not that I just knew somehow it would be
OK because I was now listening to my heart.
(10:06):
So when we then later drove backhome or my husband drove back
home from the hospital, I did just tune into my heart and
said, OK, I'm willing. I'm willing to listen, I'm
willing to be guided. And the first thing it did was
actually to change my diet straight away and it put me on a
really extreme diet. I would never put a patient on
because it was so extreme, but Itrusted it.
(10:26):
It had done the same. I'm going to interrupt you for a
second, sorry, just because again, you share a lot of that.
That's the first part of first chapter in your book.
And I just would love for you toshare how how your heart was to
communicating this to you, because there might be customers
who don't know who aren't accused to that wisdom.
(10:48):
I I totally understand. I practice shamanism.
My teachers, the 27th generationNepalese shaman.
So I practice in the cast Nepalitradition.
And similarly to you, my father had not a heart attack, but a
stroke. And I also carry a protein that
can make me predisposed to that.My grandfather also had a
stroke. It left my father in a, in a, a
state of very like he's totally disabled.
(11:10):
And that was 12 years ago. And I was in my 40s before
actually before I was 40 when that happened.
And it really made me radically think about my life and think
about how can a seemingly healthy picture of absolute
health. This man, he had A6 pack.
He was, he was 79, sorry, 69 at that time he was 70.
(11:31):
Looked incredible. Ran, you know, 5 miles every
day, every day, did 100 push ups, skied.
He lived in Colorado, skied like90 days of the ski season, was
very healthy. Did never smoked a day in his
life, barely drank alcohol. And so as you said, if someone
looks healthy, you just don't believe it.
How can they? How can this inner thing be
happening? And so I really wanted to
understand through epigenetics, how, how could he?
(11:55):
How could he be a carrier? Am I possibly one?
Could this happen to me and my children?
And and then similar to you, because I was on already on my
wisdom journey, my shamanic journey, I was AI could have
tuned to my spirit guides who could help, who were literally
helping me and guiding me. And I literally hear them speak
(12:15):
to me, not as a voice in my head, but as an external force.
I'm sure it's probably similar for you and feelings in my body.
So I'd just love for you to share.
How did your heart speak to you?How did it communicate these,
these life saving lessons that not only saved your life, but
healed your heart as you explainreally beautifully how you did
those journeys into the different chambers and how you
(12:36):
came up with the different chambers.
And I mean, there's just so much.
And I mean, I really, I really enjoyed your book.
And there's so many sections I'mactually going to go back and
reread and do as not read the book as like reading the book,
but actually do it to like literally go back and heal parts
of my own ancestral lines. Yeah, because it's through your
experience that you find the wisdom that is there for you,
(12:59):
the medicine that is there for you to heal it.
It's a really great question andI wish there was just an easy
answer. So, but it isn't because we
have, we are. We're all unique and different.
So your intuition will speak to you in the way that it best can
reach you. So for me, being an osteopath,
it absolutely reaches me throughmy body.
(13:20):
So I get an inner knowing and inner feeling.
When it came to the diet, it wasactually showed me physically.
So when I tried to eat potato grate I, I admittedly, it just
came up and I love potatoes. You know, I'm being, I'm
sweetish and. And I live in the UK.
And I live in the UK and it and it just showed me, no, this is
poison for you. It literally just, it just came
(13:41):
up and I still can't eat potatoes actually, which is a
real shame, but I just can't do it.
The other bits with my one. And that's because of the
starch. That's because potatoes are
starchy. Not necessarily I think.
I haven't actually gone in and diagnosed why it is because I
just know I'm allergic to it. But if I were to have a tune
(14:02):
into it, there's probably more more to do that it's
inflammatory food in that way. But for whatever reason, I'm
also allergic to vodka. You know, I actually am allergic
to alcohol, but I'm definitely allergic to vodka.
But then my dad was an alcoholicand his his poison was vodka.
So it could be all sorts of stuff lying there in why it is
potatoes for me. But for with that one, there
(14:24):
were so many other things I had to look at that I just went, OK,
my mother doesn't like potatoes.And then I just let it go.
So it's through inner knowing, inner feelings, witnessing how
your body responds. And for me, it's then especially
through the shamanic journeys. And that's what I share in the
book. The first journey in my heart
(14:46):
guided me on was the journey into the four chambers of my
heart, which is what the book isbased on.
And that's my main guide for, for tuning into any form of, of
wisdom for me, because when I'm journeying, I'm journeying
actually with my body. So I know shamanic journalist,
(15:08):
you can also journey through your third eye and you see
things and I do see things, but I especially journey through my
body very much a cranial osteo. So I'm joining through my body
through the feminine, which is actually a very feminine way of
journey. It's also what we do in Seder,
which is the Norris shamanic. We journey through our bodies
through the feeling. You know this, I can see that
(15:29):
you have experienced that. And as you journey through your
body, the body will then reveal to you also images, smells,
sounds, the information that is there, that reveals to you the
mystical landscape of your soul that is holding the wounding,
for example, that I needed to witness.
(15:51):
And then it guides me on this journey.
It's like a soul retrieval journey.
Well, you first witnessed the wounding, you witness where it
came from. It's like you start to get all
this information, what is held here in this wounding, and then
it guides you through your body and how to shift and release
this. It's completely led by the body,
(16:13):
by my heart, by the divine mothers of darkness and light
for me, because they were the ones that came to help me heal
my relationship with the feminine of darkness, which was
actually already good, and light, which is where I had my
issues because I received ratherlight from the mind, from the
masculine than the feminine. The feminine, I had so many
(16:38):
fears around receiving her nurturing love from the light.
And again, these mystical journeys showed me that and also
showed me how this was not in mypersonal history only.
This was so deep in my ancestrallineage.
(16:58):
And that journey had actually started just over a year before
my heart attack. And it was when my mum died
because it was as if she had buffered a lot of this wounding,
which was actually quite poisonous and quite venomous.
You know, the wounding in the feminine where we become vicious
(17:21):
and we turn on each other and it's the backstabbing and the
wagging of tongues and they're talking badly about all of that
that is there and all. And, you know, in the collective
and the feminine. And, and when she passed away,
that was kind of downloaded intome like a poisonous chalice.
(17:42):
And that took me on a really deep journey of healing that of
really witnessing that in myselfand in in my limit.
So that by the time the heart attack came, I was well and
truly surrendered anyway to the Divine Mothers because I
recognized I could not heal and shift this from my mind or from
(18:09):
what I previously knew. I had to be guided by a more
deeper ancient wisdom than I hadencountered before because this
was so deep where they were guiding me.
Does that make sense? Yeah, on it.
It does make sense to me. Thank you for sharing that.
I'm just going to ask you some questions to perhaps explain it
(18:31):
in another way for listeners. So you are connected to the
Norse mythology, but also Alberto Villa, he's he's in a
South American tradition. Actually, that was my
introduction and I'm really gladthat I got I was given a
structure. And it was like, is it core
shamanism that he practices? No, no, no, no, he does.
(18:53):
Sandra. Does Sandra Inguman does core
shamanism and it gave me a structure and a door in but the
moment I started to join in, I was never met by any of the
spirit beings from the and my Sonis and Anderson.
What came was the Norse goddesses, the Norse goddesses,
and then they later introduced me to the Celtic ones.
(19:14):
It's like my own ancestral wisdom started to emerge from
that because that's that's my medicine, but it gave me a way
in and and because it's still alive that practice.
So but once, once I was in. So I don't do any of of his
(19:35):
practices anymore because this has evolved into something
completely different. No, I figured that, I figured
that. And of course you, you, it's all
for your book and then the journeys that you you're
presenting in here. But I, I just, I wanted to just,
you know, have you clarify that,you know, for, for listeners who
may be familiar with shamanism, but also it might be new, a new,
a new, not a new topic, but maybe just concepts, you know.
(19:58):
And so with that, so you met these Norse goddesses.
Just share a little bit about who your key Again.
Also interestingly, I don't really think of Mary Magdalene
as a Norse goddess. No, no, no, no.
But she still works with me a lot.
Totally. Perfect in the book because
again, I'm very much based here in England and Glastonbury and
(20:18):
all of that. And she embodies both the
darkness and the light in her. And she also embodies how she
was silenced for 1500 years, howthey twisted and distorted who
she truly is, and how her consciousness is rising within.
Oh yeah, no, I. Just like it's rising within us.
So when she came and wanted to part of the book, I'm like, Oh
(20:40):
yes, absolutely. And that's a beautiful journey.
I did that journey. I, I listened to it.
I really loved it. It was such a, a beautiful
experience for me and for listeners.
If you want to listen it, it's free, it's on your website, you
can go to ccwilliamsitsforwardslashheart.com.
Is that correct? And you can totally listen to
that one there. And also a journey for the to,
(21:01):
to the four chambers of the heart.
So just backtrack a little bit quickly explain what are the
four chambers of the heart? Which of your goddesses who
guided you to discover these chambers?
It was actually my heart that guided me.
So what I did was I just knew I had to join in.
And that's what was very shortlyafter we came home from the
(21:21):
hospital. I just felt it's time to join
in. And I joined it in following the
flow of the blood, the way it flows through the four chambers.
And it was really cool because this journey was so clear from
the beginning. And after the journey, I had to
just go and tell my husband. You will never believe what I
discovered. I say journey drumming, were
(21:42):
you? Drumming for yourself or you
just kind of no no. No, I was rattling.
I was using a rattling. So the way the way I did this,
since you're working with shamanic stuff, I actually held
a hand on the different heart structures.
That's what we do as as osteopaths.
And then I journeyed with my battle.
(22:03):
But the way I teach it in the book, I have mapped it into the
mythical landscape, but the way I journey it was actually in
through the physical structures.Anyway, I followed the flow of
the blood and I came to the first heart chamber.
This is where the blood comes, when it's now deoxygenated.
And so it's coming back to the heart late to go up to the lungs
(22:24):
to become filled with oxygen again.
So it's not poor in oxygen. And as it came into the first
chamber, it was like I realized this is when it's poor in
spirit. This is like the season of
autumn when everything in life that is poor in spirit is not
meant to be shared, released, let go.
(22:44):
And I'm like, this is so cool. So this is like early autumn.
And then I actually followed theflow of the blood also through
the valve, which I haven't shared in the book, but that's
the autumn equinox. And I realized that this is the
autumn equinox now. And I moved into the second
chamber. And here I was met by the dark
goddesses. And they said, this is our
(23:05):
domain, this is what it's like in early winter when we move
into that sacred darkness. We're moving deeper into
ourselves. And this is when we really
witness our shadows, our deep inner wounds that we're meant to
transform because we now let go.So that is no longer kind of
(23:26):
stopping us from joining, and now we instead can just be here
in that darkness. And this is a real powerhouse in
the heart. It's also a real powerhouse.
If we think of the wheel of the here, that early winter where it
looks as if nothing is happening, but such a deep
transformation is taking place. We're really, when we allow
(23:50):
ourselves to surrender to it, we're really transforming.
It's like coming into the cauldron of the Dark Mother,
really surrendering into that. And the Dark Mothers are
definitely my main teachers. And then I followed the flow of
the blood it. Made me think of Kali and Oh
yeah, it's it's mothers got, youknow, the great the the Maha,
(24:12):
yeah, the 10 great mothers in the Vedic tradition.
Tantra. I was really like.
All the dark mothers all and they what's beautiful with the
dark mothers is that they are all so similar.
Regardless of tradition, they all carry the same medicine and
just expressed through differentaccents.
And they all have this holy fire.
They all are portals of life, death and rebirth.
(24:35):
And they have all been so distorted by patriarchy and they
are loving. They are loving, they are
loving. They are scary to the ego
because it's like an ego's death.
Completely like the store of Inanna which I share about in
the second heart chamber becausethat's the complete ego death we
have to move through in in orderto them late to be resurrected.
(24:59):
Anyway, all of that is here in the second heart chamber.
And I followed the flow of the blood and I went up to the lungs
and I saw my lungs as this cosmic Angel.
I could not believe this was just so-called breathing in
inspiration, breathing in light,breathing in medicine, breathing
in life, that new expression of life.
(25:22):
And I realized this is what we are experiencing at the winter
solstice. In the midst of of the darkness,
the light is reborn. And I'm like, this is amazing.
This is happening in my body forevery heartbeat and it's
happening out there in life. I mean, it was so incredible.
(25:43):
Then I followed the flow of the blood and I went down to the
third heart chamber. And here it was like I was now
bringing back all that light, all that oxygen.
If when I think of the blood, all that medicine into my heart.
And here I was met by the light mothers who are all solar
goddesses, and they were showingme that this is early spring and
(26:05):
a special actually early spring.And like the Arctic where my
ancestors are from that beautiful light from the sun,
it's very gentle. It's very soft, but it's very
powerful because as nature receives her light, all that
which is frozen melts. Yeah.
(26:26):
So life, the magic of life can be ignited again and and again.
It's just amazing when we recognize that.
And this is also where I had a problem in my heart because.
And they said it's because you're good at receiving it from
the divine source, but then you just want to bring it straight
through your heart and down intothe 4th chamber and out into the
(26:49):
body, out into the world. So we're keeping some for you
and I later, it was probably about two weeks after I did this
journey, I had an echocardiogramwhere they could see that the
valve here is leaking. So it's like blood comes back
into my third chamber, which I thought was really cool that I
actually could see that through the shamanic journeys.
(27:10):
And that's not a big problem. My main problem here was late in
the coroner arteries, but I had an issue there and then I
followed the flow of the blood coming into the 4th heart
chamber and again here I could see this was like early summer
where we have, we have received so much light that our dreams
and our visions and that new life we have received from the
(27:32):
divine source. It's now grown and grown and
grown within us and now it's blossoming.
Now it's going through its own rebirth, just like nature does.
And then from the 4th chamber, it then takes all this
blossoming, all this light, all this medicine, all this life out
(27:53):
into the body. And my heart was showing me the
body is a representation of the world.
So this is what you and I meant to do, to bring all this life,
all that which is blossoming within you, all your gifts and
share them with the world. And it was, it was just so
(28:15):
beautiful to recognize that thiscycle, seasons of darkness and
light, the medicine of both the darkness and the light of the
feminine is happening within my heart.
And it was this that my heart wanted to show me.
You need both of the feminine. You need to heal your
(28:37):
relationship with the mother within you, with the ancient
mothers within you. That is what's going on guide
you take you on the path that wehave planned for you and and it
really did that. Another one actually with the
heart, which I do share in the book.
And I feel that this is, this was so it meant so much for me
(29:02):
when I saw that. And they shared about my
coronary arteries because that'swhere I had an issue.
And I had an issue on one of my left coronary arteries.
And when I joined it in to work on my coronal arteries, they
were showing me that just like the body is a representation of
(29:22):
the world, the heart is a representation of us.
And the coronal arteries, their only function is to supply the
heart. And they showed me that the
coronal arteries are the rivers of blood connecting you with
your ancestors I. Thought that was so amazing and
described in your book. And then and as they then join
(29:45):
it with me, I had to witness thewounds in my ancestral lineage
so that I could then be guided through this process of healing,
that I instead could receive themedicine and especially the
wounds actually held in in the left for me, which it was all
about the sisterhood and all of that.
That was that. And again, it made so much sense
(30:08):
when I when I, when I saw that. And you can't make this up.
That's the power of journey because when you journey in,
you're being met by this deeper wisdom that goes beyond your
mind and you can feel the truth in your bones.
Yeah. And that's that.
It's true. Gosh, I wish that shamanism was
(30:30):
taught more openly, you know, because we do have these natural
innate gifts, these abilities to, to alter our states of
consciousness without taking drugs or mind altering
substances. And, and there are places for
that in, in medically, you know,supervised environments that
that psychedelics are really helping people that, who have,
(30:51):
who have experienced extreme trauma and their things are
locked within their bodies. But if you are able to have this
experience of the journey with they've guided A practitioner, A
shamanic practitioner, they're so expansive and just so
unexpected. And we're shown these amazing
things that are so real. I mean, we're literally crossing
(31:15):
the veil, stepping into these other realms of reality that
we're so taught, particularly inthe West, that they're not real.
It's your imagination. You're making it up.
You're crazy. What are you, what are you
talking about? But they're, you know, when we
really allow ourselves to be, toattune to this sacred medicine,
these experiences are like life changing.
Absolutely, absolutely. And they really do have an
(31:38):
impact on not only on on your physically, but on your life
because it changes you completely and actually about
that. So for example, my students are
not allowed to take any psychedelics, anything like
that. It's not part of certainly not
part of how I would share it or teach it because when you are
(32:00):
the power we step into the deeper we go for when we learn
how to join in like this, because it that takes time to
develop the power that you access is so powerful that first
of all, you don't need drugs. Well.
You're learning how to drop intothat space on your.
Mind you develop exactly you're developing your own strength,
(32:21):
your own ability. To cultivate.
That, and therefore it is alwayssafe.
Yeah. It's like, it's like if you go
trekking up the mountains, if you develop your own strength to
do it, then it's safe. Well, if you just fly out, then
you can get all sorts of problems and then you also own
it, you know, when you develop that ability.
(32:42):
For me, that's been the greatestgift I've ever given myself is
to learn how to do shamanic journey because it gives me so
much access to our wisdom that is not available in my everyday
consciousness. But that is longing I feel.
(33:04):
I feel it's a she for me. She's longing to rise and become
part of being weaved into this world.
And I do feel so passionately that it is her medicine that is
needed in our world, the medicine of this wise feminine
(33:25):
presence that's been suppressed and silenced and distorted for
so long. And I do feel we are hearing her
now. We hear her calling us to make
this journey of descent. And when we then start this
journey and we develop our own ability to do it, trusting that
it is safe, your body loves you,it will only reveal to you that
(33:48):
which you are ready to witness. Yes.
Always, always. Yes, even when I work with my
clients, it's amazing and and spirit will always check in and
I'll say, OK, they want to know,can you do you want to hear
more? Because they don't, they don't
think your body's physically ready as in, you know,
translation, your nervous system's not going to be able to
(34:09):
take it uses as far as we can gotoday because there's so much
has arisen and so much has been revealed that you need to now go
do the work and process and and follow the guide, the
instinctual guidance that's comefrom you from a higher place so
that you can really heal yourself.
And sometimes we of course need,like in the instance of you with
your heart attack, you needed togo to hospital.
(34:29):
We needed to have an the ECG andyou needed to be shown, you know
that this is happening even though you were being told, you
know, in other in in other realms, in other ways, but you
needed to be told. Of course, they could then help
you with that. And I loved in your book how
they said the doctors after you doing your journey work for two
years. They just, they were like, hang
on a SEC. Did she actually have?
(34:51):
Yeah, I know. Corny.
Did she really have this problem?
I. Think they're so healed.
Yeah. I know something that's really
cool with that was that me and my youngest, we actually went on
a bit of a journey. We join it into the darkness for
a whole month in November to really meet the darkness.
We join it up to the Arctic Circle and we spent a month
(35:12):
there. Oh.
You literally journey like yeah.Yeah, yeah, we literally went
there. Yeah, we.
Literally a physical journey. Not a, not a no, no.
We actually literally went thereand then we literally went there
also at the end of May for the Midnight sun to now really meet
and embrace the light. And we both had more issues for
the light and the darkness. And of course, in my heart,
(35:33):
that's where the issues were when we were there.
I got a call from my DP saying we want you to come in.
And I'm like, well, actually I'm, I'm up in the Arctic Circle
right now. So it's the way.
And I said, OK, can you come in when you're back and say sure,
sure, sure. So that was when I went in, I
was, I went in to see the GP about a few days after I had
(35:54):
been back to really immerse myself in the light when it's
like 24/7, really be in that medicine of the light.
And that's when they told me, yeah, their cardiology unit,
they want to discharge you. They think they might have made
a mistake because they can't find anything wrong with you.
And I'm like, that's fine, that's cool.
And I knew that that wasn't a coincidence, that that also
(36:18):
happened just after I had been physically in the land of my
ancestors in the light. Yeah.
Because that whole journey was about honoring the medicine and
the wisdom that my heart had shown me by also walking the
lands. And you know, my daughter and I
did that. You're listening to your 4
(36:39):
chambers of the heart journey. And interestingly in my
daughter's 16 we both like didn't.
I wouldn't say completely fell asleep, but definitely drifted
into another space at the exact same time just before the 4th
chamber and with them. Interesting.
Yes, yes. So that's an issue.
Yes, yes, and. This is what it's a 26 minute
(37:00):
practice. It's a 36 minute.
It's not very long. 2626. Minutes.
Yeah, so, so we've we came up atthe same time and we looked at
each other and she said I think I, I missed the 4th chamber and
I said so did I? Interesting.
I'm like this. How interesting.
There's definitely something there.
And again, that's the light feminine.
That's actually when you're stepping into the real magic of
(37:23):
her. Yeah, it's the it's like that
magic that creates the rebirth. Yeah, it's the real power.
So that's you look at now, the 4th chamber.
It's actually when you're journeying with Freya as
Gulveda, which is the ancient witch that rebuts herself,
whatever the sky gods, which represents the mind, do to her
when they try to spear her and burn her.
(37:45):
So they try to kill her three times.
Each time she rises, they can't kill her.
And it's actually from that moment that they then recognize
that they're in the presence of greatness and they represent the
mind. And then I'm in the presence of
greatness because Freya is the soul.
She represents this ever lastinglife of the soul that has the
(38:07):
ability to birth life. And that's when Odin becomes her
students. It's like the mind now bows to
the power and the wisdom of the soul, and then it can be taught.
Yeah. Yeah.
Really, really beautiful. I definitely, that's why I said
(38:29):
earlier, I need to go back and like really go, you know, like
sit with a few of the things that came up for me that that I
felt, you know, you feel it in your body.
That's the truth, right? You know, it's like, OK, there's
something that I'm that's been that needs to come up, that
needs to arise. And then for the last week, my
right leg has been just showing me there's like pain, physical
(38:53):
pain. It's been wanting to come up and
and leave. So I've been doing a lot of like
tuning into that. What is this interesting that
needs to come out? That's you know, who is it who,
who or what, what timeline is? Is it associated with?
It feels like my mother. It's really interesting, but and
and the ancestors and her line and so.
(39:15):
Interesting. You see, that's really
interesting because in the book I share more about working with
because there's so many different ways of working with
these metaphors. So one of the ways of working
with the metaphor of the true oflife is that on the right you
have the masculine, on the left you have the feminine.
However, these days I work a lotmore with Seder and then we turn
(39:35):
in on really connecting with thefeminine on both the right and
the left. And then the right is the
structural feminine, the holder that is more like progesterone
in the body. So pro gastation number one that
creates the cauldron for your magic to grow.
So this is when you would have had real structural magic of the
(39:58):
feminine that can hold that. Power.
And then on the left, it's the fire of feminine, more of the
estrogen that ignites the spark of your magic.
So interesting. It could be something in there
too, about that structural feminine, which many of us have
(40:19):
have ignored, thinking that the structure comes from the
masculine. It's actually quite an
interesting story. With that, I won't share too
much, but do you know Sarah Bartram?
Sarah Bertrand. Sarah Bertrand, who wrote Room
Awakening and Mara Magdalene revealed.
So she's amazing. She's amazing.
And she was teaching the same time, the same week as I started
(40:42):
to journey and connect with the structural feminine of the Queen
of Ice from the North Sagas. You have ice and fire, and she
was talking about exactly the same thing.
So it is definitely rising, thatancient awareness, knowing of
the structural feminine. Yeah.
(41:04):
It's it's interesting when I wasfirst being introduced or called
to the shamanic path. It's definitely a calling, isn't
it? It is a calling for sure.
And I, I had no idea who my teacher was going to be, you
know, who was going to reveal themselves.
I didn't, I, I just knew that it, I, I instinctly knew it
wasn't the South American lineage through that path.
(41:25):
And, and I just thought, no, that's not, that's not what I'm
drawn to. That's not the, you know, the
space. But I was drawn to Sandra
Ingerman, interestingly, and youhave to write a letter to Sandra
to get her to, to work with you or respond to you or whatever,
like start, you know, to correspond directly with you,
(41:45):
you've got to write a handwritten letter.
So I did that and, and she, and then in that letter, you include
your e-mail and then she'll, she'll reply to you with your,
through your, you know, her personal e-mail.
And so she did. And so we struck up this
relationship and I did some journeys with her and similarly
to you with Alberto. It was a great introduction into
how to journey into that space to alter my state of
(42:06):
consciousness and my awareness and to be taken to different
realms and have these experiences and what was coming
through. In terms of the the beings, they
were much more in the, the Hinduand Vedic tradition,
interestingly. And so one of them was actually
Nagakanya, who's the serpent goddess in my teacher, the Kas
(42:27):
Nepali tradition. They really are are they have a
very, he particularly has a verystrong relationship with her.
Without going into the whole story through a series of months
over almost about 6 to 8 months,I was guided to actually meet my
teacher who, who is in that tradition, who then asked me all
about, you know, did I have a, adeity?
Did I have her as a statue? And I said yes.
(42:48):
But the, the whole, the coming back full circle, part of that
was I let Sandra know, I said, Oh my God, I had this crazy
experience. I, you know, met this guy, was
guided to this person, this teacher.
And I didn't say teacher at the time.
I said I was, you know, met, guided to this, you know,
shaman. And she wrote back almost
immediately an e-mail and said, I'm so happy you found your
(43:11):
teacher. And, you know, by the way, I
know him. Here's his e-mail.
And I because I hadn't even met him really yet.
I had just discovered him and felt Oh my God, this is the
person and I had ordered a book and on the front like it was his
name. And then she had written the
foreword. Oh.
Wow, yeah. And I was like, OK, you've known
all along. She would always say journey on
(43:32):
it, journey on it, journey from the answers, journey on it.
You know, I'm like, that's not what I'm looking for.
Tell me. I don't want, I don't want to
have to journey on it, but you have to because that's where the
you'd really have to strengthen that muscle to do that.
But anyway, I just wanted to share that but.
And that's also how you trust itbecause you received it
yourself. It's like, it's that it builds
(43:55):
such a deep trust within you when when you receive that.
Yeah, rather than when someone tells you.
But the point of that story was a lot came up around my Japanese
ancestry and coming from my grandmother's, my grandmother's
Japanese, but my, my maternal grandmother and my mom carries a
lot of the, the history, the trauma as a female and, and from
(44:21):
Japan. And there's so much of that was
shown to me. So not only were these Vedic or
Indian or Hindu northern Himalayan gods actually from
goddesses, country goddesses, there was a lot of crossover
with the a new people in Japan and like Japanese shamanism and
all these other beings that werecoming forward.
(44:41):
And it was and they're very connected just based on India
and China and Japan sort of got a lot of crossover thing with
with Buddhism and tons of Buddhism advise Rihanna coming
over. But but anyway, that was I
totally digress. But that was the point of that
story. But it but it did.
It does show though, that once you open the door, you will be
(45:07):
met by that which is for you, yes.
So you can be guided on that path.
And I find that that is actuallyreally amazing with the students
I work on, even though the our framework is very much sader,
very much the North, I know thatthey will awaken their ancient
wisdom and what comes through isvery different depending on
(45:31):
their ancestral lineage. So and, and, and that's because
that's theirs, that's for them. That's what they are calling
forth through their roots from their ancestors.
And, and I love that. I love that.
So it's just, you just need a door, you need a way in.
And I'm be held in a framework initially as you're developing
(45:54):
your own framework, your own strength, your own cauldron to
hold your magic. And then you kind of move with
your cauldron now and you are, you're on your way.
So. So, yeah, yeah.
So in in your book, I love that you talk about the serpent
mother. It's this is AI think a very a
(46:18):
timely topic, but also, as you say, a very she's a very, very
misunderstood. Goddess share how she's
misunderstood. Oh, gosh, so there are so many,
so many different ways in that. So first of all, many of us
(46:42):
actually have a real snake phobia.
I do. I actually have a real snake
phobia. So I absolutely understand when
people are saying to me, I can'twork, you know, with, with
snakes or serpents because I wassnake phobia and I go, so do I.
But that's not how she reveals herself to me.
She reveals herself to me in a way that she knows I'm
(47:02):
comfortable with. Just like many have spider
phobias. And of course, we work with,
with the spirit weavers. So, so there are many different
ways actually with this. One is we have the patriarchal
and I'll talk about that soon. But one is that I feel that the
serpent comes with many, many, many different medicines.
(47:25):
One is that she shows us how theimportance of shedding her skin
and that we don't just shed it once per year, we shed it
several times. Whenever we feel we're outgrown
our old way of being, we're meant to shed it.
And it's also how she sheds to keep herself healthy because she
sheds down old illnesses, old disease, and she's doing it not
(47:47):
just by doing a little bit at a time.
Once she starts, she will do thewhole structure, will take her a
while, but you know, she keeps on going, she keeps on going and
it's very beautiful and very graceful the way she does it.
So she's actually a very, very gentle healer when she's helping
us to shed, which is how I mainly teach her medicine.
(48:09):
For me personally, she is also showing me that how we can have
the venom or the medicine and how she carries both.
It's like that duality in that and how we can be in the venom.
Because I saw these ancestral woundings as these poisonous
(48:32):
snakes, the venom of that. And she showed me that, yes,
when we go into bitterness, blame when we're not in our
power, so we start to, you know,try to manipulate, trying to get
our way in different ways. And we are them being trapped in
what I see as the eager minds, distorted filters.
(48:55):
We can feel that venom built within us and it starts to
poison us. And we can also take action from
this and like a poisonous tongue, spread it.
And she showed me, yes, you can be there or you can be within
me. And let me show you how to be
the conjuits through which this heals.
(49:18):
And now you develop the medicine, the antidote that
heals this. And I can't remember the whole
myth, but it is about Medusa. So Medusa is one of these
beautiful goddesses that's been so misunderstood.
And she really showed me a lot of this medicine when I joined
with her some years back. And I can't remember the whole
(49:40):
myth now, but there is an aspectof that myth when they're flying
with, I think it's with her actually, with this part of her,
this snake, where on one side the poison falls and on the
other side the medicine falls. And I could see so clearly.
It's like we can have this splitwithin us, which is where these
(50:03):
distortions come, or we can choose to be the bearer of the
medicine of it, that that that heals it through our own alchemy
of that. And that is what she actually
represents for me. It's that alchemy of that.
(50:23):
And then the misunderstanding ofher is when we get caught in
that split. Yeah.
When we look at the patriarchy, when I look at Eve and the
serpent and all of that. So, you know, there we have tree
of good and Evil, which is the tree of life, which is a
representation of the Mother Goddess.
(50:44):
And on her you have these fruitsof wisdom.
Yeah, you're not supposed to eatthem.
And then Eve listens to the serpent, who tells her to eat of
the fruit of this tree. And the serpent is a messenger
of the goddess, so it's the Goddess telling Eve.
(51:04):
For goodness sake, eat the fruitof your own.
Wisdom. Wake up, woman.
Wake exactly wake up. And then as she wakes up, she
goes and tells Adam it's time toeat.
And I do feel that is what is now we're awakening to that.
Oh my God, that is what it means.
And not this distorted lie. The twisting of no, this was you
(51:31):
shouldn't eat of this. And the serpent was evil.
And then Eve got us all to be cast out of heaven and condemned
to original sin and all of that craziness that has followed us
for such a long time. And I do feel the serpent mother
is one of these key aspects. To be able to track it all the
(51:54):
way back in time where that split happened and then make a
different choice. Yes, I totally agree with you.
And there's quite a few authors actually who've been published
by Inner Traditions that write about this.
Miss Smith and Andrew Collins talks about how the site in
Turkey, Karahan Tepe, is all about serpent, serpent worship.
(52:17):
And then there's also the the theory of a missing 13th
constellation. That's a snake.
That's a. Serpent.
That's actually when I'm born, because you've seen that in
December, yes. No.
Interesting and. That is the bearer of that, and
again the bearer of that the theperson or the medicine.
Yes. And then and it's interesting
that that's just been omitted, you know?
(52:38):
Yeah, because it's purely, of course, if you look at the Vedic
tradition, they actually do recognize the serpent.
They have Ketu and Rahu, which is the serpent's head and tail.
You know these different nodes in the sky.
Same in in the Norse tradition here, you know, she always comes
with her snakes. So that, I mean, in all the
goddess tradition, they knew this is, you know, it's a, it's
(53:03):
a embodiment of feminine wisdom.Yeah, and, and even Shiva has
the godship, has Basuki the serpent who's around his neck
who actually helped suck the poison out of the ocean of milk
mid story. Again, amazing.
Yes, yeah, Yeah, it is that and it is.
I mean, I do feel that that we are awakening.
(53:25):
And as we're awakening, we have to do this kind of witnessing of
all these distorted lies and untruths that we have got caught
in that. I mean, I had one of them
actually. But when it came to the
kundalini energy won't go in on that too much now.
But let's just say that I join it so deep that I saw the three
(53:49):
norms, which are the three spirit weavers in the in the
Norse tradition. And, and they are represented in
your body actually as human indial sheets, but that's a
different story. But many indial sheets cover
obviously the brain and the spinal cord.
And they showed me that they were also like these three
(54:09):
kundalini rising energies of thesilver, the moon and the sun,
the gold, and then the life force for them as their and as
their powers, as their weaving ability.
So I again, and that just came in a spontaneous shamanic
journey. And I realized I'm tapping into
(54:30):
something. This is going to these deeper,
deeper truths here. Yeah.
Yeah, beautiful. I love that.
And so on the topic of weaving, you have at the end of your
book, you know, connecting, coming back to source and
weaving dreams into reality. Yeah, that's when you then are
(54:52):
in the from the 4th Heart chamber.
You have now received all of those dreams and visions, all
that medicine, all that new expression of life, and you have
allowed it to grow. And now you're meant to weave it
into your life. You're meant to share it.
You know, they're not just for you.
(55:13):
Just like imagine if the 4th heart chamber would not release
the blood, it would just hold itto itself.
I mean, we would die and it's the same.
We're meant to let it flow. We're meant to share it.
These are not gifts for us, they're gifts for everybody.
And the Spirit weavers, they really help us understand, I
(55:34):
feel the beauty of weaving into the web of life that it's not
just about you, It's about weaving it into that whole
structure of life that holds us.And whoever you share something
(55:54):
with will then find its way intothe weed and that energy will
then be weaved from them and them.
And then it has that ripple effect all the way out.
And I think so many can get stuck on, oh, but how will I
birth this? How will I share it?
And it's like you just share it.And the way you show up, you
weave it into your life, throughthe way you speak with your
(56:17):
loved ones, the way you, the wayyou share some of your writing,
the way you share your love and your presence, that's how you
weave it into your life. And we're weaving all the time,
yeah. Thank you, I love that.
So beautiful. And so you have ways for people
to work with you. You have your own podcast get
(56:38):
people can listen to you but terrible things.
Yes, I am passionate by sharing shamanic journeys.
So on the podcast Awaken Your Inner Wisdom, you have loads of
shamanic journeys. Many were actually recorded live
on the shamanic training becauseit is 3 you do moving through
your own experience that it awakens within you.
(56:58):
You also got many interviews andsome lectures and things on the
podcast. And then I run various online
courses. You can do online courses for
your own development again, sharing these incredible goddess
myths and teachings and what they mean and then guiding us on
these journeys into the mythicallandscape of our soul.
(57:19):
And you can do that. Some many of them are live
webinars, but they're also recorded and you do that for
you. And then, of course, you know
you have some dedicated few thatreally feel the cool and they
want to come and train, but that's a long in terms training
to become a master practitioner in shaman again in to medicine
(57:41):
and say the medic, but that's a long training, minimum two years
do. You have to go in person, come
to the UK. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So a lot of it is held online, but it's held online live and
you actually have to attend every module.
So that can be a bit of a shock.It's a proper training.
I mean, I'm a, I'm an osteopath,so I've based my training on how
(58:03):
I was trained as an osteopath. So we do a lot of clinic errors,
a lot of practice because that'show you develop it.
And there are exams and case studies and also a lot of having
to witness yourself, witness your shadows.
It's really intense spiritual work.
And I know a lot of people in the first camp they go, they may
(58:23):
not have been ready for that, but they certainly will realise
the moment they they start. Yeah, before you can heal
others, you have to heal yourself.
Absolutely. Continue.
Journey. It's a continued thing.
Absolutely. You can only guide someone to
the depth you've been yourself. Yes.
You know that's with this. This is the difference between
(58:44):
being a practitioner in the shamanic tradition and maybe if
you're like, a mentor or coach. But this comes from your
experience, your own wisdom through lived experience.
Yeah. Love it so your website and all
your socials please share. OK, so CC williams.com, Nordic
(59:09):
Light dot Academy and CC Williams on Instagram.
I don't really like Facebook. I'm on Facebook too but I prefer
Instagram. All of those links will be on
the show notes page as well. They'll all be there but CC.
It was such a pleasure to talk to you.
This was awesome I think. This has been lovely.
Thank you Sir. I'm absolutely love chatting
(59:30):
with you. Actually, it's been amazing.
Thank you.
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