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August 8, 2024 47 mins

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Unlock the secrets to accelerating your financial growth with multifamily apartment investor Mandy, who shares her transformative journey from a 9-to-5 job to thriving in real estate and business acquisition. Influenced by "The Surrender Experiment," Mandy explains how pivoting from real estate alone to including business investments can significantly boost earnings, especially in today’s economic climate with rising interest rates. Get ready to uncover practical strategies and the mindset shifts needed to diversify investments for optimal success.

Discover the power of creating supportive communities for ambitious women as Mandy discusses her leadership role in GoBundance Women, a mastermind group fostering growth and empowerment. Learn about the unique challenges and enormous rewards of managing multifamily properties and assisted living communities. Mandy emphasizes the importance of operational scale and the right management structure in achieving efficiency. This episode sheds light on how spaces like GoBundance Women drive impactful opportunities and meaningful connections among its members.

Gain profound insights into personal development as Mandy highlights the importance of doing inner work, setting boundaries, and maintaining internal alignment. From overcoming fear with radical transparency to teaching children about money through initiatives like GoBundance and Fambundance, this episode covers it all. Mandy’s method of taking on one major project per quarter and the value of being part of supportive groups like GoBundance Women offers a blueprint for balancing personal and financial growth while celebrating each step along the way. Join us for an episode filled with inspiration, practical advice, and transformational stories.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello Conscious Investor and welcome back.
I'm your host, julie Hawley.
For over four years, I'vepaired my background in real
estate, investing, education andcoaching to create powerful
content for you each week.
This podcast is where we take aholistic approach to investing
by focusing on three ingredientsto a life of personal freedom
health, mindset and wealth.

(00:23):
We'll talk about everythingfrom passive investing through
syndication and how to use yourretirement accounts to boost
your investing, to mineralbalancing and gut brain health,
and into topics that cultivateyour inner strength and
resilience so you can thriveregardless of any of life's
current events.
And yes, those are all episodescurrently available and linked

(00:44):
in the show notes below.
Join me each Monday for amindset episode and later in the
week for an interview withexpert investors and health
professionals, so that you canexperience your greatest health,
strongest mindset and build thewisest wealth.
Mandy, I am so thrilled to haveyou back again guesting again.

(01:04):
That doesn't happen often onthe show, so welcome back to the
Conscious Investor.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
I am so incredibly excited, julie, for a hundred
reasons, and thank you for thechance to be on again.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
You know, I think if I were to open up my desk drawer
and dig around for just a briefmoment, I might find a best
friend half from like.
Years ago, after we recordedour podcast and we ended up
outside because my internet wastrash and we've got chickens in
the background, I'm pretty surethat I sent like a oh, we're
going to do this best friendsthing because this is hilarious.

(01:37):
So it was just a fun, fun wayto wrap up such a fun
conversation.
So, conscious Investor, if youwant to see growth and
development in humans, go back,listen to the previous episode,
which was probably three yearsago, with Mandy and I, because
it's just, it's fantastic.
But, mandy, we've got to diveinto the biggest question of all

(01:58):
because life has changed a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
So now, here in 2024, so now, here in 2024, what do
you do and how did you getstarted?
Oh, love it, julie.
I am currently in this reallycool situation where,
multifamily apartment investing,I bought stuff that I own by
myself and stuff that I own withjust a few partners, that I was

(02:21):
able to buy my way out of myW-2 in 2021 and have had the
space to be able to just leaninto stuff that feels awesome.
A book that you and I mighthave talked about is called the
Surrender Experiment, which hasreally informed so much of my
choices, of what's next andwhere do I want to put my energy
, and where I'm putting myenergy now is largely with

(02:44):
GoBundance Women, thismastermind that I joined as a
member that I now have anopportunity to serve in
leadership and because of thingsI've learned from people who
are light years ahead of me intheir investment journeys.
I've acquired a couple ofbusinesses, because I think
businesses make you go further,faster in terms of earnings and
net worth than even real estate.

(03:06):
So that is where I'm at now.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
So much there that we could go down.
I feel you conscious investor,because it's like which path do
we start with?
So we're going to say this, wedon't have to, we have, we have
time on our hands, so are on ourside, so we're going to start
with.
I want to start with thebusinesses.
I really want to go intoGoBudnets.
Can you see, I am conflicted,but I want to ask you about

(03:30):
businesses.
I feel like that's the new sexything out there and people are
like gravitating.
We're seeing.
You know, cody Sanchez is like,oh my gosh, we're going to be
the next Cody.
And we're, you know I have, wehave a mutual friend.
She's crushing it with thebusiness that she just bought
and it is something that, infact, somebody told her I mean,
it passes along commented on heron a LinkedIn post she had

(03:54):
recently and they said, oh, lookat all the people from
multifamily are nowtransitioning shiny object
syndrome over to businesses andwe're thinking businesses take a
long time to acquire.
Like there's a differentprocess and one, whatever
investors invest, that's thewhole purpose behind it.
Tell us, like, a little bitabout the, the um addition and I

(04:16):
also see it as an addition intoone's portfolio Like how did
you decide to add, um you know,businesses into your investment
portfolio and what are youloving most about it?

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Sure, I mean, my end game will always be apartment
buildings on agency debt that Iown by myself.
However, with the incrediblyfast tick up in interest rates,
they weren't penciling for manyyears, and what I've chosen to
do is, rather than sit on myhands because I'm not a sit on
your hands kind of girl I lookedat the people who are light

(04:50):
years ahead of me.
So one of the my favorite callsin GoBundance is we look at
people who make it to $10million net worth $100 million
net worth and we dissect whatgot them there Right.
And one of the things that Isaw time and time again is that

(05:11):
you can kind of white knuckle itand get to maybe a $10 million
net worth in real estate, butthe people who got there further
faster, the people who get to$200 million net worth, they get
there with a business interest.
And when I lean back and lookat the why, if I'm going to buy
an apartment building at a fourcap, which was happening a lot
the math on it just zoom out itsvalue is NOI over cap.
So at a four cap, to get thatdollar of NOI, I need to pay $25

(05:34):
.
If I'm going to buy, let's say,a car wash.
It costs me 3x EBITDA.
So it costs me $3 for a dollarof that cash flow.
And I understand math isn'tperfect but it's rough ideas.
So I'm buying the dollar ofcash flow for cheaper and I have
an opportunity to, if I can seea path to doubling year over

(05:54):
year top line revenue on the carwash for five years straight.
Can you double year over yeartop line revenue of your
apartment building with you knowand keep anybody renting or
abide by all the laws?
You absolutely cannot.
So I think of the business asmy engine for cash flow and once
I have a big chunk of capitalto take chips off the table, I

(06:15):
put those into those 50-ishunits, small, multi.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
That's so.
I love that because it's takingsome.
It's like and a lot of peopledo this where they're looking to
how can I generate some liquidcash?
So I love that because it'staking some.
It's like and a lot of peopledo this where they're looking to
how can I generate some liquidcash so that I can spin that off
and put it into somethingthat's going to be a slow growth
over here and diversify, butkeep, I love it.
I love this, this plan.
What are some of the challengesthat you've faced in the

(06:42):
business process?
Cause new asset class, newchallenges.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
You know the thing that I was talking about.
I forget on what panel, butevery single time I buy into
something new for at least sixmonths.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
I'm like oh my God, what did I do?
Was it the right?

Speaker 2 (06:59):
choice I think I screwed up.
Every single time I'm superinformed, I dive in and it's so
many new things to figure out.
And the beauty of apartmentinvesting is, if you buy
something big enough to have aproperty manager's eyes on it
24-7, 365, your involvement on aday-to-day basis reduces so

(07:19):
significantly that you couldpotentially call it passive, and
that is beautiful.
Significantly, that you couldpotentially call it passive,
right, and that is beautiful.
However, if you are going to goafter that additional cash flow
, there are a lot of movingparts.
There are a lot of things toknow the amount of things that I
know about pumps and hoses andchemicals that I didn't

(07:40):
anticipate knowing a year agobefore acquiring this business.
There are a lot more movingparts and a lot more systems and
processes to have in place torun something well than just
hiring a property manager.
So doing your homeworkbeforehand is absolutely
something that is incrediblyimportant when buying a business

(08:01):
.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
I love it.
You're such an ambitious likelet me jump in kind of woman, so
I'm like it's not a surprise atall.
You're such an ambitious likelet me jump in, kind of woman,
so I'm like it's not a surpriseat all.
You're like this works, let'sgo.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
I love to make what I think is a little bet, and then
I know I learn best by screwingup and failing forward.
So if I make a bet that's longenough, then I can learn those
lessons.
Like I did in multifamily abouta four-flex, I don't believe
that the right path is to buy a400 unit for your very first

(08:31):
transaction.
I think you buy a fourplex andscrew up with fourplex problems
and then lean into growth.
So that's what I've chosen todo on the business front as well
.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
I love that.
Do you have a business likeanother?
I mean, you have a car wash andit's been fun to see you over
on social media.
So, conscious Investor, gofollow Mandy on social media.
She's so much fun to follow,like your content's fun and it's
real.
It's not this.
You know fluffy, and you justhave insightful things that you
share.
It's just.
I love your content.
So go follow her on the socials.

(09:03):
Um, cause you'll be glad thatyou did.
What's the?
Are you going to acquire morethan um more other types of
businesses besides you know?
Now that you understand how carwashes work, are you going to
just kind of go into the carwash zone for a little bit, or?

Speaker 2 (09:18):
So I also have a motel, which, um, I made a bunch
of friends that were killing itin short-term rentals, and the
amount of revenue you cangenerate in an overnight stay is
very different from a long-termstay, right?
So I now have an opportunity tobuy that partner out of that
motel and am getting the rightoperator in place so that we can

(09:39):
make that what it should be.
One thing I'll say, though, isI've noticed about myself is I
like to do a number of differentthings, and I've made some
friends through differentorganizations.
Actually, one woman that, ifyou're not following her, you
should.
Her name is Lisa Song Sutton.
She and I had a chance to meetin an event in Costa Rica and

(10:00):
spent some time together, andthis girl she owns a brokerage
and a cupcake company and a hugeportfolio and mailbox stores.
I'm like how the crap do youkeep all of this straight?
Because I'm doing a motel and acar wash in my portfolio and I
feel like my head is spinning,and the lesson I learned from
her at that event was you know,have an operator at the top of

(10:22):
the totem pole so that you're,you know, kind of coaching them
up rather than trying to do allof the things yourself.
So 2024 has been the year ofthe operator for your friend.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
That that's amazing, especially just you've got
exciting things happening inyour personal life, so I'm like
you have more time to just liveand enjoy, which is really
awesome.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
I mean it's a constant evolution, it's a
totally a process and not all ofit is in place, but I see a
clear direction of working abovethings.
And on the car wash front, athing I've learned from small
multisides is you know, if youown a six-plex, the management
of that is you go to Joe forleasing and Steve for rehab and

(11:07):
Susie for talking to tenants.
Well, it's a cluster to dealwith a management structure when
stuff is small.
But when you have enough scalelike if you buy a 50-unit
property, you might not like thegurus tell you afford someone
full-time at like a 100-unitproperty would afford, but if
you have a 50-unit property youmight not get Susan on site
Monday through Friday but youget her Monday, wednesday,

(11:31):
friday.
So having enough scale to havesomebody's eyes on that price,
that operator is really key.
So there will be scale in ourfuture.
We're not at the point yet thatwe have a full book of SOPs
that make complete sense, but wewill be acquiring with
logistical proximity to be ableto have that full-time operator
in place.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
That makes so much sense.
Housing everything likebuilding out.
We're acquiring assisted livingcommunities and it is
centralized and it is scalingout and there's some
intentionality to that, for sure.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
That is absolutely a business too, you know.
So it's a completely differentanimal.
Yeah, oh my gosh, yes.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Not meant for the faint of heart and not meant for
all people, because I mean,like you're dealing with such a
precious demographic.
I just love it.
So I'm like no, you need theright people, you know, running
the show, operating it andmaking sure that these lives are
really being nurtured and caredfor.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
It's so important you are the perfect person to be
doing that stuff.
Not everybody's heart is in itin the way that yours is, so
I've never gotten to tell you orgive you the verbal high five
that I think that this is agreat fit for you.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Thank you, I love it.
It's it.
It is my jam, you know.
Just give me my multifamily andmy assisted living, my, my
partnerships right there.
Let's just go deep.
Let's go.
It's fun.
You and I know how important itis to have strong partners.
So, conscious investor, go back.
Listen to our previousrecording from years ago.
You'll get the story on how badpartnerships can affect your

(13:08):
life, and it's not fun.
I clearly remember that part ofour conversation.
So let's shift the scope alittle bit, because you're doing
something that's really closeto both of our hearts.
All of thising is our heartbeat, but we also love just being
around other powerful women,powerful people, and you and I

(13:31):
have both like hey, my guys, youguys are awesome, we love you,
we value you, we appreciate you.
And then there's this momentwhere our guys have their little
spaces and they get to go andthey do their thing, and now you
are at the helm of the ship,just like really creating a
powerful opportunity forambitious women like us who

(13:52):
really want to go, um, sharethis experience.
So, before I start feeding intomy my concept of everything
that you do, why don't you tellus like tell us about GoBundance
.
Tell us about GoBundance womenyour vision.
Who's who's there?
What do you want to see?

Speaker 2 (14:09):
Oh, so I so completely.
We are completely on the samepage that you've you're given
two arms for a reason.
That's one thing I say a lotone to pull yourself up, but
another to pull other people upwith you.
And especially, growing up inmultifamily, I feel like I grew
up with even multifamily thatyou know, there's so many bros,
there's so many, right, butthere's something really special
about getting to connect, aboutthe human condition with

(14:30):
someone who's like you.
You know so I actually learnedof GoBundance in 2017, from a
guy at a multifamily thing weird, right, that was talking about
that.
I just joined this thing andit's, you know, yes, it's about
financial freedom, but it'sabout so much more than that.
Are you giving back in a waythat feels awesome?
Are you connected in yourrelationship?
What is your health like?
And I'm like, oh my God, theseare my people.

(14:51):
How do I join?
And there, there wasn't yet awomen's division, right?
So in 2020, when the women'sdivision launched, I joined as a
member because I wanted anopportunity to talk about what
it feels like to be the femalebreadwinner, to talk about what
it feels like to dive into mydreams and fear failing my son
as his mother.

(15:12):
You know that is not aconversation that makes sense
with bros in the room, you know,and it wouldn't be.
The reciprocal is true as well.
So I believe in the hearts ofthe guys who started the men's
division it was that kind offraternity where they had that
ability to go deep andvulnerable on the stuff that
matters men to men.
And then they looked up manyyears later and realized, oh my,

(15:34):
we're not serving women.
So they decided at the end of2022 that they wanted to allow
it an opportunity to be forwomen, by women.
And that's when three of usstepped up and leaned into
leadership and since then I'vebeen serving as one of the women
who lead GoBundance Women.
So it's been really neat to seethe tweaks that we wanted to

(15:54):
have as members and we'regetting to execute them now and,
you know, really crossing overwith the men's side where it
makes sense and really saying,you know just women and just men
where that.
So it's been a really, reallyfun journey so far.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
And one more clarification, because there's
events that are for family aswell, correct, like GoBundance
family.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yep, so Fambundance.
If a woman is a member ofGoBundance women or a man is a
member of the GoBundance elitemen's side, then you can attend
what we call FBundance Women ora man is a member of the
GoBundance Elite men's side,then you can attend what we call
Fambundance and you bring yourfamily and there's you know
stuff teaching your kids aboutmoney and wealth.
And you know to have my kidsnext to other crazy entrepreneur

(16:37):
brain people, because you knowhow if you're an entrepreneur,
you feel crazy in your dailylife with the people your family
of origin.
Usually that the chance to showyour kids that we are not crazy
and we are chasing our dreamsthat feels really cool as well.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
It's absolutely remarkable and I think it's so
important.
This is one reason my kidstravel to one or two events with
me each year Just be aroundother people, and we have
friends that have their kidsthat will come along sometimes.
So it's just interesting to seelike this whole world exists.
It doesn't look like, you know,there's more than your small

(17:17):
town life.
Like, go see, there are lots ofpeople thinking in these
massively big, big capacitiesand such.
So what are some of the what's?
I'm curious about the visionthat the three of you have for
GoBundance women, who would bean ideal, you know, like if
someone's listening, how wouldthey know that, like this is
where they want to be in GoPlan?

Speaker 2 (17:40):
So the kind of the mission statement is we are a
tribe of healthy, wealthy,generous women who choose to
lead epic lives.
So the right person has youknow, we're the tribe of
millionaires.
So a net worth of a milliondollars or, you know, accredited
investor status would mean thatyou qualify, because the
problems that you face as aninvestor or in your life, if

(18:02):
you've kind of started to figureout the money stuff, you're an
accredited investor.
That's a different set ofinvestment problems than if
you're trying to make your firstinvestment.
We do have a group for the notyet millionaires called Emerge,
so we have a place for that.
But if you have a net worth ofa million dollars and you want
growth and you're hungry forthat growth in all ways, in your

(18:23):
health, in your connection, inyour adventures.
One thing I didn't realize,julie, until I was doing my we
call it our master abundanceplaybook.
We look at the pillars that westand for and we kind of rate
ourselves Like how are we doingthis quarter?
And I realized, oh, adventure,like I'm not, that would be fun.
Like I'm so head down on, likemaking my connection feel good

(18:45):
and making my financial freedomstuff work, that I hadn't even
thought of connection or theadventure stuff and I went that
quarter and bought an RV.
That is when we bought the RVand that is the why behind we
bought the RV to go onadventures with the family and
make those memories.
You know, so culturally wespend time looking at the stuff

(19:06):
that matters to us and planningour lives, because I would argue
most people spend more timeplanning Thanksgiving dinner
than they do planning their owndang lives.
So we culturally kind of peerpressure you into doing that
type of thing.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Is there any part of it where people would be like so
?
So I just recently came acrossan organization and I'm not
going to talk in depth about it,but I mean, like for the first
30 or 90 days it was a, it was along time Like the group makes
your decisions for your workout,for your nutrition, for your,
and I was like I don't know thatI can commit to that.

(19:41):
That's a pretty intense thing,right.
So, like, is there anythingthat that you have found, uh,
transitioning on thevulnerability scale?
Now, you and I were, we're,we're into vulnerability, so I'm
like that.
That's probably not going to bethe part that is a little like
uncomfortable for you, but isthere anything where people will

(20:01):
sometimes kind of go like, oh,I don't, I don't know that I
want to have that conversation,or if I'm prepared for that, or
Well, I mean this masterabundance playbook.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
There is like radical transparency, like I write down
that my weight is 169 poundsand where I want it to end up,
you know, and that that's likekind of cultural.
We don't talk like you know.
Let me lead by example that I'mgoing to tell you this thing.
That should be embarrassing,and it's just data.
And it's the exact same withnetwork.

(20:33):
You know that if what you wantto do is improve something, the
more I say this a lot too,especially with the people I get
to coach in small multis thatthe more truth you put to a
problem, the easier it is tosolve the problem.
So if you're not committed to alevel of transparency with
people, and especially yourself,you're not going to get the
results that you want.
So you first got to apply thetruth and sometimes that feels

(20:55):
like you're a little bit nakedthat you want.
So you first got to apply thetruth, and sometimes that feels
like you're a little bit nakedand that can be kind of scary
until you see the culture ofthat.
We're all doing this, we're allin it together.
We're all here to lift eachother up.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Like full, like we know, conscious investor you
know Mandy knows me well enoughto know like I don't mind the
vulnerability, but that alwaysbecause the cultural norm is you
don't talk about religion,politics, and you certainly
don't ask people about like, oh,how much money's in the bank
account.
Oh, what'd you spend that on?
Oh, you have debt.
Oh, you, you're only going tomake.
You're going to make this much.

(21:27):
Why wouldn't you make that much?
Like, like, there is so muchabout that that can feel so raw
and vulnerable where people youknow, so I love that there's a
place where it's the norm, likethis is data.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Oh, it's exactly it.
And sometimes if you findyourself in a more successful
kind of situation based off ofthe decisions you've made in
your life, then your family orof origin, or your your where
you grew up it can beembarrassing to say, hey, julie,
I bought a $5 million propertyyesterday Because someone might
say, in that family of origin,oh, must be nice.

(22:04):
Well, no, I worked so hard onthis.
I want a high five, I don'twant to.
It must be nice and what youget if you are in the right room
is a high five and not like ajudgment in the wrong direction.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
I absolutely love that and there's there's so much
truth to that and consciousinvestor, maybe you don't feel
that truth on the financial side, but maybe you've gone through
that process of doing deep innerwork and so now you're making
some bold choices.
Or maybe you've gone throughthat process of of saying no to
certain things in your nutritionso that you can say yes to the,

(22:39):
you know, to the health andfitness that you want, right,
and now people look at you like,oh well, who do you think you
are?
You know granola eating, youknow, and, and so, yeah, there's
always that like that pushbackwhen we become that mirror for
the people around us and theydon't like what they're seeing,
it's like, well, I, I've donethe hard work, like I won't be

(23:00):
around people that want tocelebrate with me, let's go.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, you know, the, where I grew up, is so near and
dear to my heart and I lovegetting to go home and I want to
make friends that are my future, in addition to my friends that
have built my path, and that'swhat I get a chance to do when
I'm in rooms with, like this,lisa song Sutton, and we get to
spend a weekend with CodySanchez in October.

(23:24):
So just being around women whoyou know, I think sometimes I'm
playing chess, and then I getaround them and I realized I'm
just playing checkers.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
Oh yeah, yeah, I feel that way around you all the
time.
I'm just like it's so exciting,it's just absolutely exciting,
do you know?
Just to see you know how you'veevolved and the daring that
what appear to be like just no,I'm going for this, I bet on me.
And to have that confidence tosay like I know I can do this.

(23:56):
It might be scary, but I'mgoing to do it anyway but I know
I can do this.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, that's um.
I was actually, uh, on a panelat a women's event and we were
talking about decision-makingprocess and this, um, you know,
the difference between someonewho is light years ahead of you
and where you're at is just thefact that they did it scared,
that they're still unsure, thatyou know this idea of like

(24:22):
you've got to mitigate the riskand you know I, um, when I was
first doing a larger multi, thatfirst 53 unit that I bought
versus the fours and sixes andthe tens, I got real comfortable
with that If I felt like I wasgoing to like be homeless and
penniless and under a bridgewith my son, like I was certain
of it.
And then I just realized I'mreading stoic philosophy at the
time like what is the actualworst case scenario?

(24:43):
That's not the worst casescenario.
Maybe you've got tons ofsavings, you're gonna have some
money coming in, you can alwaysgo get another job if you want.
So what is the decision makingprocess?
And understand that they're,you know, just doing it scared.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
I think that doing it scared.
Now what do you think?
Like my position is, sometimeswe have to do that personal,
that inner work to get to thepoint where we can do it scared.
I've, I've, I've done so muchinner work just to build some
infrastructure to where it'sit's like it's going to be okay.
I'm at this point now whereit's like where it's, it's like
it's going to be okay.
I'm at this point now whereit's like it's it's kind of all
of it's going to be okay.
Like, think about the past.

(25:24):
So what have you done?
Or did you just have that?
Or like did you just have it ordid you build up some?
And I think I'm like you know,we know each other, so I'm like
maybe I'm kind of leading withthis question.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, I am not someone who identifies as brave.
You know that is not a thingthat I've done.
You know, connecting the dotsbackwards Like I could, I could
see how someone from the outsidemight say, oh, that looks
courageous.
But, like, I do not identify asa brave human in any way.
One thing that I have done isI've learned, like you know, how

(25:58):
do I think about that worstcase scenario, actually put
truth to it, like that'snormally numbers, especially in
this investing game.
If you think about that worstcase scenario and you put the
numbers to it, then you canstart to plan around that,
mitigating that risk, like howdo you make sure that that risk
doesn't happen?
And then, if it feels like, ifyou can get comfortable with the

(26:19):
worst case scenario and how youwould deal with it, it becomes
so much easier to move forwardinto something.
And I've also a thing that,like a little hack of my brain
that I've done mindset ninja,whatever is, if I need to do
something, I treat it like anexperiment.
The idea of leaving my W-2 in2021, it felt so final, it felt

(26:43):
so serious and scary and I justdecided that I was going to
treat it like a 12-monthexperiment.
And let's look back and see howit feels in 12 months and if it
feels awesome, keep going.
If it doesn't feel awesome,then go find a job.

(27:04):
So how?

Speaker 1 (27:05):
do you remove the finality from a decision in
order to take that pressure off?
I absolutely love that, and sooften we don't give ourselves
that permission to even say likeit's not, like I'm unemployable
if I don't.
And that was actually part ofour decision-making process when
I left education the last time,and probably for the last time,
like that's the plan.
You know, it's been years now,but all I have to say was like,

(27:30):
worst case scenario, I go backto education.
Like, okay, no big deal, likethere's always there's.
I mean, hey, I'll go be abarista.
Like I don't know Worst casescenario, I can find a job.
Like, if I need to find a job,we can do that.
We're smart people, we'recompetent, conscious of us, or
you are too so.
So then do the thing that makesyou scared and do it scared.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
And know that you can trust your judgment.
If you've not done reps allthat to say, if you decide, oh,
I want to buy a smallmulti-building, oh, I'll just
buy this one, and done no workto figure out the truth to these
things, then the likelihood ofyour failure is a lot higher
than if you've done the work tolearn to trust your own judgment

(28:15):
.
Right, like if you've made theright decisions and and you
figured out how to mitigate riskand maybe you're working with a
coach that helps you figure outhow to trust your own judgment.
It all comes back to you.
It all comes back to you knowam I, can I trust me?
And that is, you know, thehardest thing in this whole.
You know human experience thatwe're in.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
It is Okay.
So why would you say it's thehardest thing to trust ourselves
Like we're with ourselves 24seven?
Is that why?

Speaker 2 (28:44):
I feel like it all depends on you know where you're
at, and when you look atsomeone who's doing something
you want to do, it seems so, oh,it seems so effortless and the
past seems so obvious.
And when you're like the one inthe arena fighting the fight
and bloody and sweaty, that youknow, I think it's super common,
like completely natural, toquestion each step that you

(29:07):
choose to take.
It's a Steve Jobs quote that Irip off all the time that the
only way to connect the dots isby looking backwards.
You know.
So if you can develop, you knowwe talked about this in my
house with the teenager that youknow how do you figure out the,
your decision making process?
Have you developed?
Like if you've read the RayDalio book principles wonderful

(29:29):
book, incredible to see how abrilliant man thinks.
But the biggest takeaway I hadfrom that book is that I need to
have a list of principles.
I need to decide, when I'munemotional, how I'm going to
decide the person I want to beand it's actually you know we do
that for our family what areour values, so that we know the
filter to run something throughbefore making a choice.

(29:51):
So if you haven't decided yourprinciples or your values that
will help you make decisionswhen decision making is hard.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
That's so important.
Someone else who does this on ain a different way that I think
is like very gentle is MichaelGervais, and I'm obsessed with
his work right now.
So he goes off of firstprinciples like the first rules,
like, so you just you need tounderstand what your first
principles are for your life.
His work is on FOPA, which Ithink you'll appreciate Fear of

(30:22):
People's Opinion, like just as arule.
So he has a book that recentlycame out.
But you're going to love him,I'm not going to spoil it.
Conscious Investor.
You've heard me talk so muchabout Michael Gervais over the
last several months that I'mlike you're probably tired of
hearing it.
So but check out, check out hiswork, his podcast, um, eloquent

(30:43):
with words and gentle and justabsolutely like mind bending.
But it's so simple, you know,and I kind of.
I kind of like it when it'slike how did you subtly just
like do that?
That was really interesting.
That didn't feel painful.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Elegant in simplicity .
Actually, Einstein said that ifyou can't explain it simply,
you don't understand it enough.
Like I came from the cardiologyworld, I sold medical device
sales.
There are so many med devicereps who try to sound so smart
by using all these complicatedthings, Like, no like.
If you can just actually boilstuff down and understand it

(31:20):
like a fourth grader wouldunderstand it, that's when you
actually know.
You know that.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
That is when you know , right there for sure, and when
he started stumbling over yourwords, it's very clear like,
okay, this person doesn't reallyknow what the heck they're
talking about.
Oh my gosh, absolutely.
I want to dive into some of thepersonal development and I love
that you and I can run thespectrum on a conversation where

(31:46):
we can talk about hey, let'stalk about investing.
Okay, let's talk about the peergroup that we surround
ourselves with and let's talkabout the inner work.
What are some of the thingsYou've gone down the Tony
Robbins rabbit hole and downsome other things that have
really impacted your life, and Ilove, I, just I love that about
you.
I'm curious, looking back overthe last you know, decade or so,

(32:10):
you can go back as long as youwant, whatever the timeframe is,
I don't care, you know, butwhen you, when you look back, um
, what do you think?
Looking back, connecting thedots like Steve Jobs says, what
do you think were some of theneedle movers for you and
conscious investor?
I'm asking Mandy this, anddon't take this as oh, that's

(32:32):
going to be the same thing forme because you're a different
person, but it's reallyimportant to have role models to
see evolution of oneself.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Totally agree.
My path is not the path for allof the people.
However, there's probably aclue or two that might help you
inform where you're going Right.
But my gateway drug was TonyRobbins, and I had.
I had watched all of his videos, I had read all of his books, I
had done all of the things, andthen I saw a billboard that

(33:02):
some real estate wealth expo wascoming to town in like 2018 or
something, and the real goodticket was $500.
And then you got a picture withTony.
I'm like $500 for one day,that's stupid.
I'm not doing it.
Oh my god, I want to do itRight.
So I bought the $500 ticket andI got to sit front row of like

(33:25):
10,000 people and I got mypicture with Tony.
But you know, he, if you, ifyou've done Tony Robbins stuff,
unleash the power within, or UPWas they call it, is the first
kind of the shortest and kind ofenergy focused seminar that he
does.
Well, he did the first fourhours of UPW at this thing and
at the very end, there was thismeditation that was earth

(33:48):
shattering to me.
This idea that my answers arewithin me was mind blowing, and
I just need to go deeper tofigure that stuff out, because
at the end of this meditation itfelt magical.
I knew exactly the harddecision I needed to make and at
that moment, $500 was too muchfor that ticket.
I walked directly to the backand I bought the $2,000 UPW

(34:08):
ticket because I knew I neededto make and at that moment, $500
was too much for that ticket.
I walked directly to the backand I bought the $2,000 UPW
ticket because I knew I neededto invest in myself.
I knew that figuring me out wasgoing to make for the very best
possible life and all of thatfear that I had pent up in not,
you know, being the perfectlittle girl that you know.
Um, you know the one who raisedher hands and got three days
and was a division one athleteand did all of the things that

(34:28):
she was supposed to do, likethat was not fulfilling.
I was.
I had a full on panic attack ina parking deck at a hospital
because I knew the truth was notwhat I was living and I needed
to figure that out for myself sothat I could feel what
fulfillment actually look like.
So, end of the day, askingyourself the hard questions is

(34:50):
the important part, and if youspend money to go full immersive
on stuff, to ask yourself thosequestions when you're not
trying to make 12 snacks forthree kids and sign permission
slips.
That can be way easier.
But that doesn't mean a bookcan't help you get there.
Actually, a book that I justread from a woman I met in an
event is called Boundaries BossTerry actually what's the last

(35:15):
name, but anyway.
So she's a therapist and sheactually gets to teach acting.
So she's so funny, julie.
She knows like the comedyformula.
It's great.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
So one thing I know you and I both love comedy.
It's great.
So one day you and I both lovecomedy, so that's great.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
I was trained in comedy so I thought like, oh my
god, does she know she'sfollowing the rules?
Well, I'm guessing she knowsthat she's following the rules.
But the primary takeaway I hadis you know, you think about
boundaries, you know, you hearit.
You're like, oh no, I need tosay no more often.
Okay, yeah, I get it, but whatare your boundaries with
yourself?
And doing like an actual, likethought process of a thought

(35:51):
experiment on what my boundariesare with myself and kind of how
I got there.
That is my current likeepiphany that I'm obsessed so
boundary boss.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
Okay, I love that.
And that actually takes likethe concept that I have in my
own head like very full circle,because when I think about when
we're not internally aligned andcongruent, we can't trust
ourselves, like we don't knowhow to trust that intuition
because, well, you had thatextra glass of wine when you
said you weren't and you sleptin when you said you were going

(36:23):
to get up.
And so we start to doubtourselves, right, because we
don't have those clear and Ihaven't read this book.
So this is my owninterpretation of all things
right At this moment is like butjust like being able to trust
ourselves and have thatconfidence to say I can move
forward with this, I can pressplay with this with confidence,
and I'm not going to fall flaton my face because in these

(36:44):
small things day to day, I makemy bed, I, you know, put my dish
in the dishwasher.
I like these small,insignificant things that we
have within ourselves justremind us like no, I have this,
I'm capable of this.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
I mean it's are you keeping those promises to
yourself?
That's how you learn to trust aperson who's not you Like.
If, if, if you make me 20promises and you keep six of
those promises, I'm going tolearn you's not you Like.
If you make me 20 promises andyou keep six of those promises,
I'm going to learn you're nottrustworthy.
But if I'm making myselfpromises and I'm not keeping
those promises, I'm treatingmyself like I don't matter.
And I think, especially womenhave so many things on their

(37:21):
plate that we you know, studieshave shown that we do a
disproportionate amount ofhousework, that we do a
disproportionate amount of thechildcare, that all of the stuff
in this generation has, youknow, largely been of a female
responsibility, and now we'rebreadwinners in a significant
way.
And now we're going to controlmore dollars collectively as men

(37:45):
in this world very shortly.
So how do we learn to balance?
How do we learn that it's okayto ask for help Because we have
so long and just doing all ofthe things?
Actually?
So my business partner inGoBundance, one of the men who
started the men's division hisname is David Osborne.
He talked about on a call howhe was lucky, that he wasn't

(38:07):
really good at a lot of stuff.
So he had to start hiring andthat is why his growth went so
far so fast.
But if you are a woman, thatcan you know.
Get the kids on the bus andmake the dance uniform and sign
the permission slip and grow amultimillion dollar business.
You might think that doing itall is the path to all things,
when that is not necessarily thecase.

(38:27):
That is the path to burnout.
How do you figure out where youcan ask for help, how to ask
for help and how you can matterto you?

Speaker 1 (38:37):
Oh gosh, so good.
So OK, I have to ask, I'mcompelled.
I just want to know have youfaced burnout since you left the
medical device sales?
All of that right Like?
Have you faced burnout sinceyou left the medical device
sales?
All of that right like?
Have you faced that burnout?

Speaker 2 (38:51):
so actually I I've.
In leaving my w-2, there was somuch stuff in in, uh, real
estate that I wanted to do likeposts and education and, you
know, outreach that I wouldn'tdo because I felt concerned that
it would appear that my timewas being split
disproportionately between W2world and investing world.

(39:14):
So as soon as I left, therewere so many things I wanted to
do.
So it was like I was starvingand I went to like the all you
can eat buffet for Chinese foodand then I got all of the things
on my plate and I just keptsaying yes and kept saying yes
because there was all of thesethings that I wanted to do and
then I ended up like bloatedwith MSG and low main and

(39:35):
opportunity.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
So this is actually kind of a cautionary tale of
leaving your W2 that I talkedwith yesterday about that if you
don't have a plan for whatyou're going to take on, it's
easy to allow yourself to justcontinue to say yes because you
get to.
So my new personal rule ofthumb I'm real big on figuring
out a personal rule of thumb sodecisions get easier and I have

(39:58):
that filter to run it through.
I've decided I can take on onebig new project for quarters
which allows me the latitude tobe able to do a car wash and a
motel and you know, lead toabundance and all of the things.
Take on coaching plans,whatever those things are.
I can only add a thing and getit set up to scale myself out of

(40:20):
it largely one per quarter.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yes, I, I love that because my my followup question
was going to be like how do younavigate that?
And I love that there's this.
Hey, this is the bandwidth, andif I want to do this and I want
to do this successfully, thenthis is a parameter.
Going back to giving yourselfsome healthy boundaries, just
building all of this in keepingthe promises to yourself.

(40:45):
Gosh, I love that.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Mandy, that's absolutely it.
I actually so, on thewhiteboard that I look at when I
work, I I've been working todiscriminate between is this an
idea I have for myself, or isthis a promise I'm making for
myself?
And if it's a promise, then acommitment has happened.
When I keep that promise, I doa hash line and I'm watching.
This is me building confidencein me that I will show up for me

(41:09):
.
You know what I mean.
So can you delineate betweenwhen it is that promise and then
kind of do a little rewardthing of some sort, Cause if I
get to 15 of those I get amassage.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Oh yeah, girl.
Yes, definitely, I'm on boardwith that one for sure.
Oh, I love that.
What a great way of going aboutit as well.
So fun, mandy.
I could, I could just go on.
I am like I always enjoy, youknow, talking with you and, um,
you know, you've been a justsuch a wonderful influence, you

(41:42):
know, in my life, in otherpeople's lives, just in how your
level of ambition andauthenticity and that ability to
execute like you, you executeat the highest level possible.
It's just, it's absolutelyinspirational and I love so much
that you know you are, you know, leading the GoBundance women

(42:03):
and that you're providing aplace for other ambitious women
to be able to come to this oasisand high five each other,
because we know, we, we all know, and it happens with the
gentleman also.
But there is that jealousyfactor that can happen and it
could be like, well, am I goingto actually like their post, or
am I going to actually like sendthem a note and congratulate my

(42:26):
friend, or am I too jealous?
And to do that and so to bearound a group of women where
it's running together is justpowerful.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Your growth is my growth.
My goal as a connector and theone thing I'm good at in life is
connecting people into stuff isthat if you have a win, I have
a win.
And one thing that we said offcamera that I want to make sure
to say about you know, beingpart of a women's group or
somebody like seeing people wholook just like you doing stuff,
one of the most annoying thingsabout the human psyche is you

(42:59):
usually you don't believe thatit can happen for you until you
see it happen.
It's the Roger Bannister fourminute mile thing, right, and I
would add to that you don'tbelieve it could happen for you
until you see somebody like youdoing that thing.
So the big high fives, thecongratulatory stuff cool.
I got another example in myback pocket that's going to

(43:20):
matter to somebody at some pointand that is really what we're
working to build as part ofGoBundle.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
Oh gosh, I love that.
So, as we're wrapping up, we'regoing to leave some information
.
Mandy's going to give it to youin just a second.
But also remember that you know, gentlemen, there is a place
for you also.
I mean, like GoBundance wasfounded by men and, if you're
hearing this, there's thattandem element and that's
something that you can look intoas well.
So I don't want to, you know,leave you displaced at all.

(43:47):
Like there's a place foreverybody, right, we already
talked about that.
There's some inside the women'sside, there's the fam side,
like everybody's covered here,like there's a seat at the table
for everybody.
So, mandy, tell us, like,what's the best way for you know
, the conscious investor, toconnect up with you, to learn
more about what you're doing, tolearn more about GoBundance,
women and all things amazing,mandy, yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
So the best way to the catch all for all of the
stuff that I'm into my coaching,the GoBundance stuff is
mandymcallistercom.
It's going to link you to allof this stuff and absolutely
send me a message Men, women,not quite yet millionaires if
you're interested in learningmore, because I'd be thrilled to
point you in the rightdirection.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
And she will point you in the right direction.
Mandy, I appreciate you.
Thank you so much for yourfriendship.
Thank you for coming andpouring into the Conscious
Investor once again.
It's amazing and beautiful tojust continue to watch you
evolve and I look forward to thecontinued expansion of both of
us to see, like, where are we?

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Wow, look where we were then and look who we are
now, what we're up to, how coolwe feel like we have completely
grown up together in this wholelike game that we're playing,
and it matters so much to me tosee your continued success.
So thank you for the chance tochat about this, to hopefully
provide something that's alittle bit impactful to somebody
and to just be in the same roomwith you.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
Gosh, hugs, hugs to you, friend and Conscious
Investor.
Remember you want to takeaction.
You don't want to be complacent.
Because here's what happens Ifwe choose to not, to just stay
in place, we're actually goingbackwards.
Okay, because time iscontinuing on.
And so if you're beingcomplacent and you're

(45:36):
procrastinating and you're nottaking action, you're actually
going backwards in everything inlife.
And so, even if it's a smallincremental step forward or if
it's a big step forward, it isbetter to be moving forward, to
be taking action, than it is tojust, in theory, standing in
place because you're not, you'regoing backwards, okay.
If you're not going, you'redying, you are, and so close a

(45:59):
gap between who you are now andthe future that you see and
envision that you long for.
Okay, also, make sure that youtake time, let us know what you
think about this episode,especially over on Apple
Podcasts.
It directly affects the reachof the show and the types of
guests who want to come on theshow.
In fact, when you leave reviewsand that means you have to go

(46:23):
to the main show page on Appleyou have to scroll down to the
bottom and in little, tiny,purple words, it says write a
review.
Right, when you choose to dothat, it allows other people,
guests to say oh, wow, this isan active, the conscious
investor.
They have like a greatlistenership, and so you

(46:44):
speaking up allows every one ofus to experience just an amazing
menagerie of guests.
Okay, and so I want to encourageyou to take that 30, 60 seconds
to go to Apple podcasts, scrollon down to leave a.
Leave a review and honest one.
Um, and just let us know it has.
It can be honest, even if youare like this sucks, I don't
like it.
Let us know either way, okay,cause you get to be you, Even if

(47:05):
you are like this sucks.
I don't like it.
Let us know.
Either way, okay, because youget to be you and we appreciate
you.
Until next time, cheers to yourhealth, your mindset and your
walk.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Thank you, you.
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