September 23, 2025 • 63 mins
After 21 years in the Army, Master Sergeant Karl Muller faced a crossroads common to many veterans—how to transition from the structured military environment to a fulfilling civilian career. The decision to retire wasn't made lightly. Despite earning a spot on the promotion list to Sergeant Major, Carl recognized that another series of moves would take a toll on his family. "I looked at my wife, Maria, and she just wasn't happy," Karl reflects. "Those weren't tears that were celebratory. It was pain because I was dragging my kids from school to school."
Enter the Department of Defense SkillBridge program, a powerful but underutilized resource that connects transitioning service members with civilian employers for internships during their final months of service—all while maintaining their military salary and benefits. For Karl, this opportunity led to Builders First Source, a national distributor of construction materials, where he now manages multi-family construction projects in Lubbock, Texas.
What makes Karl's story particularly compelling is that he had zero construction experience. Yet the leadership skills, problem-solving abilities, and disciplined approach he developed through multiple combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan made him an ideal candidate. "Your skills in the military will have you learn faster than ever," Karl explains, having mastered complex aspects of construction project management in just four months that might take others years to grasp.
The parallels between military service and construction run deep. Both require precise teamwork, attention to detail, and the ability to adapt when plans go sideways. As Karl puts it, "We don't just build projects, we build teams, communities and a future worth fighting for, just on a different battlefield." For veterans seeking a tangible way to apply their skills, construction offers the satisfaction of creating something visible and lasting—a stark contrast to the often intangible nature of military achievements.
Want to support veterans in your community? Consider participating in the SkillBridge program at your company. As Karl powerfully states, "
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This episode is brought to you by Memorial Ranch; A place where for our veterans and first responders to find rest and relaxation while they prepare for their next mission: LIFE
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If you're a military veteran in the construction industry, or you're in the construction industry and support our military vets, and you'd like to be a guest on the podcast you can find me at constructionvetpodcast@gmail.com , or send me a message on LinkedIn. You can find me there at Scott Friend. Let's share the stories and motivate others!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You've heard somebody say thank you for your service,
but nothing says thank you foryour service.
Better than hosting a vet foran all-paid internship at your
company to see if you can assistone veteran transitioning to
civilian life.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
This is the Construction Veteran Podcast,
connecting and celebratingveterans in construction.
Now here's your host, scottFriend.
I must say I'm more excitedabout this episode than many.
I'm going to bring you CarlMoeller, a gentleman that went
through the SkillBridge programsuccessfully and has an amazing
(00:38):
story to tell.
Let's dig into it.
Hey, carl, how are you, sir?
I'm doing well, sir, how areyou?
I'm good man.
I am very, very, very excitedto have you on here.
Um, as I alluded to a coupleepisodes ago, carl is the one
(01:01):
that I was excited to talk to,as he is currently going through
the Skill Bridge and finishingup the Skill Bridge program,
something I wasn't ever exposedto, something I've heard a lot
about and I've met people.
But, man, I'm just thank you,thank you, thank you for making
the time to do this.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, really, the pleasure is all mine, sir, I'm
honored to be asked and if Icould pay my experience forward,
I absolutely want to.
It's been a great thing thusfar as I come to the closing of
it.
But yeah, I would love to sharemy experience and hopefully
help a couple vets out.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Awesome man.
I appreciate it.
So I want to start at thebeginning.
Where are you from and what ledyou to join the military, and
how old were you when you signedup?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
All right.
So I you know, I want to goback real quick.
A long time ago I didn't do sowell at a spelling test in third
grade, I believe it was.
My teacher was Ms McFun.
Um, you know I didn't do well.
And she asked me you know, whydidn't you do well?
And I said why.
I don't want to go to collegeor anything.
I want to join the army, I wantto be a soldier.
I know it's a silly question.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Wow, In third grade you knew it.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, I didn't really know it, though.
That was just a poor excuse forme not studying.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
So I end up.
You know it's always been athing.
I played a lot of sports.
You know football, baseball,wanted to football baseball.
I wanted to go to college.
Rutgers showed some interest,but bottom line college is
expensive.
They would give me a tuitionbut not a full ride.
(02:35):
I can't afford to live and eat.
So I just decided to join theArmy.
I met a recruiter and he was a19-kilo nice guy, my Master
Sergeant Calgill.
He kind of rode me in and saidwhat do you want to do?
And I'm like I don't know, man,I just thought you carry a
rucksack and a rifle.
So that's what I did and that'show my story started.
I was 17 years old when Isigned the contract after my dad
(02:56):
signed allowing me to.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Very cool.
So let's talk about the valuesand discipline you kind of get
from your service and man you'vehad.
So you were retiring very soonafter 21 years of service and I
know I'm asking a broad questionhere.
But what kind of values ordiscipline do you think from
your time in the service hasstuck with you the most?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, that's a really good question and, quite
frankly, this is something thatyou kind of understand because
you're taught the Army valuesright, and there's seven common
principles that we all, despiteyour background or where you're
coming from, that we need tokeep in check, to work with each
other, and you don't really.
You know that helps a largegroup of people strategically
(03:40):
work together very well, but youdon't really know and
appreciate what it doesindependently for you.
Later it becomes some of yourculture and things I'm talking
about is like discipline in themilitary.
Even though sometimes it feelslike to you individually, it's
just a mark on the wall andyou're not there.
You are light years beyond mostprofessional organizations.
(04:02):
I can promise that, and it'scertainly what we call standards
and what discipline that I'mtalking about is doing what's
right legally and morally.
You know it doesn't even takesometimes a deliberate thought
process.
Let's see, integrity is a hugeone, right, like I used to say.
You know, I caught a guythrowing some stuff on the
(04:22):
ground and I remember saying tomy soldiers and explaining why
we would pick up trash.
It's like we're picking it upbecause the people throwing it
on the ground imagine all theother things they do when no
one's looking.
Oh, that's good.
Yeah, that equates toaccountability, which is
freaking huge Accountability,self-ownership, self-ownership,
(04:47):
um, and that's just going tobuild on a very pillared tier of
qualities like teamwork, uh,where, where it's actions that
you know, together withaccountability and integrity, to
build that discipline, whereit's not just words.
Right, it's life or death, yeah, man that's I appreciate
honestly.
Uh, scott, what I would say islike the same principles apply
in construction, and I'm surewe're going to talk about it,
because projects get built.
You're seeing it lay out beforeyour eyes, but the big thing is
(05:11):
there's more than just theproject getting built.
Teams need to stay safe, yourstructure in your team, you need
to build as a community and,again, that discipline will
continuously grow if you get theteam dynamic right and there's
only a concoction of things thatyou should have to make that
productive, and I really thinkit's accountability, discipline
(05:35):
and just having the ability toapply some of the concepts such
as leadership that we learned inthe military, the duty and what
you're doing and buying in toget your subordinates to buy in
respecting each other.
It all plays into itself andthere isn't one value I'd say is
more important than the other,and it certainly applies in the
construction industry.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, Well said my friend.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
No, it's good, and so it's kind of like an
all-encompassing thing.
There's not like one value.
I get it.
You kind of you build the wholeperson, um, so let let's go
through your, your service, uh,I know it's kind of hard to
compress 21 years, but if, if wetake a couple minutes, let's
talk about, um, what your roleswere, where you, where you uh,
(06:21):
were stationed at, and somedeployments.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Sure, yeah, 21 years, let's see.
So it all started off withbasic training in Fort Benning,
georgia, where I went toinfantry school.
Didn't really think I was goingto be good at it.
I just followed the guy infront of me and somehow made it
through, went to airborne schoolbecause you get paid a little
more.
And then I found out that I wasgoing to the 25th Infantry
Division, where I went andshortly deployed after getting
(06:47):
there to my first tour to Iraq,knocked out, that tour got back,
the unit re-flagged, the 25thInfantry Division re-flagged to
the 2nd Cavalry Regiment andbecame a you know stayed, a true
striker unit where I moved overto Germany, which was a pretty
cool move for an 18, 19-year-oldkid to move so far away from
(07:09):
home and be that independentwhen I started to think like an
adult, something I think isanother reason I'm successful in
having a very determined andmotivated mind just being
isolated in a foreign country byyourself.
Mind just being isolated in aforeign country by yourself.
Um well, I was in the 25th, sir.
I served, as you know.
It started as just a rifleman.
It moved up into being a youknow squad, designated
(07:38):
marksmanship, uh, marksmansniper.
Um made my way to the secondCalvary regiment and this is
where I really realized like myfuture in the in the army, uh
wasn't three years to get somecollege money't three years to
get some college money, or fouryears to get some college money,
which was my original plan.
By the way, um, I'll becompletely honest with you.
Um, my first patrol, uh,september 30th, uh, my my team
leader and good friend fromRawls, texas, randy Olgin, got
shot in his head, right besideme.
(07:59):
Um, evacuated him and, justlike we say in the army, you got
to pick up that, you know,evacuated him and just like we
say in the army, you got to pickup that.
You know that leader's radioand you know, drive the mission
forward and, sadly, withoutthought like I don't get any
credit for that that's what wewere trained to do.
You know I did it and wehoisted him out of there.
Sadly he passed away from theyou know major hemorrhage to his
(08:21):
head from a gunshot wound.
But I realized there that, likeyou know, the Army is what I
want to do.
Like it scared me, but I wascomfortable in my team and I was
learning valuable skills andpeople started to depend on me.
Early on After that deploymentI ended up staying there for a
while, man, I bounced around, Istayed in the recon units a
(08:45):
sniper, worked my way up to be asenior scout observer, then an
assistant team leader and thenwhat they call a squad leader in
the recon world.
And after doing that it comesaround the time I made the
sergeant first class.
I was deployed to Afghanistantwice with that unit.
Nothing significant to reportthere other than it was tough
(09:08):
Afghanistan's a lot differentthan Iraq, a couple different
challenges, but I think theunique skills I learned in Iraq
and as a young man applied withleading those troopers.
And you know I got back fromthat.
I was supposed to be on anine-month tour, my fourth tour,
which was my last one toAfghanistan, sir, and you know I
(09:29):
knew the brigade commander, avery famous guy now.
He's General Douglas Arthur Simsnow and he asked me to stay and
be his personal PSD through theAfghan presidential election,
the second one where Karzai wasremoved from office.
With that being said, you know,nine months boots on ground,
they extended me for another 12month tour and I stayed.
I chose to stay and when I gotback I found out I got promoted
(09:52):
to Sergeant First Class shortlyafter and I was moving to, I was
coming off the line for thefirst time the operational units
to go to be a ranger instructorin 6th RTB in Florida.
To be be quite honest, I alsotry to get after get out of that
um, can we sidetrack?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
why were you trying to get out of it that and so, uh
, let me expand on it reallyquick.
So he's talking, you're talkingabout ranger training battalion
.
Um, not everybody that listensis a vet.
Can we talk about, like, whatis?
I'm sorry about that people hearabout a ranger um, there's
ranger school, there's ranger,uh, regiment big difference.
Um, but so you were going to gotraining at the ranger training
(10:30):
battalion in Florida.
And so tell me what, why wereyou?
That's interesting.
You say that.
Why, why did you not want to dothat at first?
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Um, I think the I don't know man.
Quite frankly, it's a crappything to say, but it's true.
It's nothing against the unit,it's nothing against the job,
it's it's about everything I'vedone right, like I've learned
the principles of winning agunfight from 2000 and pretty
much five when I joined the armyall the way until now, or 2004,
all the way until now.
Um, you do all that and getgood at it.
(11:01):
It's not that you feelcomfortable, it's that like you
know how it is, like you getpromoted to one position, you
get very good at it, just enoughtime to get the next position
and then learn all that stuff.
So I was.
It's not that I was climbingthe chain, it was.
I was actually, by the time Iwas getting comfortable doing
the jobs and realizing that Ican influence other people's
other people to you know, makethe organization better or
(11:21):
accomplish our mission.
I was just learning veryquickly that you know I was
doing well and then all of asudden I'm doing something
completely foreign.
I'm going into a TRADOC unit,which is, you know, training and
you know teaching a bunch ofsoldiers that you know they're
there temporarily.
These aren't my guys.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Right, and I'm sorry I misspoke.
It's Ranger Training Brigade,not Battalion, correct?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
It's Army's Ranger Training Brigade, not battalion
correct, it's Army's RangerTraining Brigade.
Yeah, brigade, okay I said it abit, the ARTB is the unit and
then the battalion I was in was6th Ranger Training Battalion in
Eglin Air Force Base Florida.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Okay.
So anyway, I totallysidetracked you, I'm sorry.
So you went to RTB in Florida,spent a few years there, and
then where did you go from there?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, so bottom line with the ranger instructor thing
, I'm glad that my sergeantmajor said you're going to be
good at it, get out of my face.
And I went um because one mywife got to enjoy the beach.
Um, my, my first son was bornthere, florian, um, born in
Florida.
You know I got to be on areptile team.
I got to do a couple firsts.
I wasn't home very often causewe work a lot Um, but I learned
a lot of things that I would saybuilt skills for me to solve
problems today, um.
(12:29):
So I stayed in um RTB for awhile.
I knew I wanted to go backoperational to an airborne unit.
Um, you know I've been to abunch of schools while I was
there.
Um, I ended up.
I ended up making just someweird assignment.
I got some weird assignment, uhearly on before, like a year
before I was supposed to leaveum Florida, and it was to the
(12:51):
173rd infantry brigade combatteam, airborne.
Uh.
It's one of the most pridefulunits I've ever been a part of.
It's one of the mostchallenging and dynamic units
I've ever been a part of.
Um.
I wasn't home very often.
I had a lot of differenttransitions there and challenges
.
I served as a platoon sergeantimmediately my family was still
(13:12):
in the hotel my first trainingdeployment to Bulgaria.
It was a major airfield seizureand joint warfighter exercise
Pretty crazy to do in a foreigncountry where your family's in a
hotel.
I served as a platoon sergeantfor pretty much a year and a
half before I found out that Iwas making the E-8 list which
would be promotion to mastersergeant, where they laterally
(13:32):
promoted me to first sergeant,which you can't do anymore, and
I went right into being a firstsergeant of a line company, did
that for almost two years andthen I took over the higher
headquarters company as one ofthe senior first sergeants.
I will tell you that was kindof a really difficult point,
just to be honest with you, andthis will kind of allude and be
(13:55):
a good lead-in, scott, to why Ipicked up and wanted to do the
construction thing.
To be quite honest, man, when Iwas a first sergeant I loved my
job being the master trainer ofa company and I loved working
with the dynamic and greatleaders that were coming out of
the Ranger Regiment to leadcompanies in the 173rd.
(14:15):
But, man, I was dying inside.
I wasn't being a good husband,I wasn't being a great father.
My second born child, maya,who's six right now, was born in
Italy, where this unit is based, and I was just never home and
when I was home, all I did was Iwas on my phone, I was being a
first sergeant, taking care ofmy people and I was messing it
up, man.
So it got to the point wherethey gave me a higher
(14:38):
headquarters company, somethingI was foreign to, but I did a
decent job.
I was also fighting a lot ofinjuries from jumping.
I needed some surgeries andstuff and I came down on an
assignment that that what Iwould have went to west point.
But long story short, it got.
It got deleted for some reasonor another.
And then, uh, I had a line intoa very, very good battalion
(15:00):
commander who knew that I neededto leave the operational line
to heal up.
But I needed to do somethingwith influence and what I was
able to do is I got assigned Ididn't even know where it was
man to be an observer coachtrainer in California, out in
the Mojave Desert, ntc.
It's a training base that I'venever personally had a training
rotation in.
(15:20):
It's in the middle of thedesert where I would be a
company trainer for infantrycompanies and mechanized
companies that come there and,quite frankly, man, I loved it.
I was, you know, even though Iwas busy out, sometimes for 48
hours, I was able to come homeand be a father to my kids and
be a husband and work on some ofthose things, build a
relationship with Jesus Christand just focus on some of those
things, build a relationshipwith Jesus Christ and just focus
(15:41):
on some of the things I wasn'tdoing.
But that was short-lived, man.
I came down on an assignment toTexas Tech University because I
was a key development timecompleted master sergeant, which
means I have the leadershiptime required to go to the next
position, and I was neededsomewhere else at a university
as pretty much the operationsleader um for the college.
(16:02):
I try to get rid of thatassignment because I knew I was
going to be.
I had, I was very confident,sir, that I was going to get
promoted to Sergeant major andmake the list uh, first look, mq
, to go to El Paso shortly, um,where I would go to the Sergeant
majors Academy.
Obviously, branch didn't careand they said you got Texas tech
, you, you need to go.
So my wife, after 11 months ofbeing in California, we moved
(16:24):
over to Lubbock, texas, where wecurrently are right now, and
four months after being there,sir, I was named on the MQ list
to go to El Paso.
So if you haven't been in themilitary, this is one of the
struggles right here.
Right, I just moved.
After being in Italy for sixyears, I moved to Lubbock, texas
, after 11 months of being inCalifornia and in seven or eight
(16:47):
months, come July, I was goingto go move again to El Paso,
stay there for 18 months forschooling, then PCS somewhere
else to be an operationssergeant major where I think I
would be competitive, to getpromoted into a command sergeant
major position.
That's three moves in acalendar year.
And what I will tell you, scott, is this is where things in
construction come to fruition inmy mind.
(17:10):
When I found out I made thepromotion list or the star major
list to go to school, I wascelebrating a whole career of
accomplishments.
I was getting congratulated byall my friends and my peers man
Like oh yeah, you succeeded.
But I looked at my wife, maria,and she just wasn't happy man.
She cried tears, and thoseweren't tears that were
(17:32):
celebratory.
It was pain because I wasdragging my kids from school to
school.
It was.
You know he's not going to bearound again, he's going back to
the airborne community wherethose guys stay deployed.
And I took a long walk, man, Itook a couple weeks to think
about it and talk to God and Idon't know.
He just kind of said to me likeyour time is done, man, you've
given enough.
And I don't feel guilty aboutit, even though a couple of my
(17:56):
mentors I reached out.
They said I was being selfishfor retiring because I applied
for retirement and got approved,sir.
And then I started doing theSFL tap thing and started
thinking about what I wanted todo.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Man, I'm speechless at the moment.
I can't thank you enough foryour humility and all of that
and what you shared like veryheavy things you shared and your
faith.
Obviously, I'm a man of faithas well.
I've shared that openly.
Um, thank you Like.
I think it's really easy forguys in your position, um,
(18:34):
who've done a lot of things donemultiple combat deployments to
get um, I don't want to say abig head, but you kind of get
this like I'm tougher thananything kind of mentality.
And what I've learned torespect the most is guys like
yourself and guys at the tip ofthe spear that say, hey, you
know, I've I have some issues Ineed to work through and being
(18:57):
so humble about it.
So thank you for that man, Ireally appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, scott, and you nailed it right.
It's not an easy thing to talkabout, like you know.
The first thing that comes tomind is no one is more
professional than I.
Like you could be professionaland still undergo human nature,
and we are not robots.
And I learned that If I couldshare my story and help another
vet realize like hey, man, it'sOK to like have second thoughts
(19:23):
about what you're doing andstart thinking about you.
Like I said earlier, when wewere just, you know, kind of
shooting the crap, you don'tneed to die in uniform and
everyone has an expiration dateand there's a time that's right
for anybody.
Now there's some freaks ofnature out there that that can
do it.
A couple that come to mind are,like Sergeant Major Daly, the
ex Sergeant Major of the Army.
Those guys are superhuman, youknow, and and I and I thank God
(19:45):
for men like that Um, but that'sjust not written in my, in my
cards.
Man and and other vets need toknow, like you have your own set
of cards, man just pursueexcellence and you'll achieve it
.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
That's awesome man.
So there's a guy, he was a CAGguy.
Um, there's a guy, he was a CAGguy.
So for those who don't knowthis, that's Delta Force.
His name was Chris Van Sant andhe was on the Sean Ryan show,
which is a super popular show alot of people know, and he said
something to the effect oftrauma is trauma and it's like
(20:17):
everybody needs to deal withtrauma.
And that, to me, clicked in mymind because I think a lot of
the guys when we get out and I'mkind of trying to relate it
here to our conversation butwhen guys get out, it's like,
well, I didn't do X, y, z, solike I shouldn't complain, I'm
fine.
Well, no, I mean, you might'vehad some sort of trauma or
things that you carried with youand I'm not.
I'm not trying to sidetrack orderail the conversation, but
(20:40):
that just it reminded me.
I just can't thank guys likeyou enough, like especially
infantry guys or guys that havebeen in direct combat to be
humble enough to come out hereand say this kind of thing.
So, thank you.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, no, I appreciate it, man, it's, uh,
it's.
It's hard to talk about, man,but it needs to be said.
There's so many people outthere that can benefit from
hearing it.
And I'm not saying that from apoint of standing on some.
Hey, I did my time and now I'mdone.
I could talk down to others andhope they listen.
No, man, like I've had mentorsand friends that went through
the same thing and some of them,you know, they chose not, you
know, to choose a route otherthan service and that's okay,
(21:14):
that's their choice.
But I seen them sufferingbecause of it and I talked to
them now and you know, a coupleof them have kind of pushed me
down the right path and and saidit's okay and and I appreciate
that and that's that's what weare Like.
We're we're mentors to otherpeople and age doesn't matter.
You know, rank doesn't matter,what.
What matters is, you know, yourexperience, the things you have
been through that somebody elsehasn't right, like what is a
(21:37):
rehearsal right Is it is afundamental.
So we don't do the same thingsfor the or we don't do something
for the first time, and theconcept that I've learned in
many high speed units is like ifyou didn't do something today,
you've never done it Like it's anew thing.
So we learn from other people'sexperiences and that's just the
principles we apply to everydaylife and I've done it and it's
(21:57):
worked out.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
That's awesome.
Okay, so I'm going to kind ofgo on a different path.
It's really hard to follow upon that.
No, it's good.
So take me through what you'redoing now.
So you're, you're, you're inthe skill bridge program.
You've been doing it for what?
Six months now, is that right?
Speaker 1 (22:17):
No, sir, it's, it's 120 day program.
I started May 6th.
But I need to back up Scott forvets out there that are
interested or not even just vetsman companies.
If you own a company and you'reinterested in having a
dependable, disciplined,mission-focused and
mission-oriented soldier, comeintern at no cost to you while
(22:39):
they still get paid by thegovernment with your own tax
money to come work for you.
You need to listen to this too.
Once my retirement packet gotpromoted, man, I was like, okay,
what do I do?
I went through all of theArmy's SFL, tap stuff and it's
good, it scratches the surface.
But again, you need to pursueexcellence.
(23:00):
You need to look at other meansto figure out what you do, and
that gives you a good idea ofsome things to do.
But you're missing a large partof what people need to do to be
successful and earn a careerwhere you can leverage your
skills you learned in themilitary and the thing I'm
talking about is what we'redoing right now, what we do on
LinkedIn.
It's called networking.
That helps you again, thatexperience.
(23:20):
Somebody has to get you in theright field, the right trade,
the right industry.
So, 18 months out, right, Istart doing all this stuff.
I finished the SFL tap thing inlike a week online because I'm
nowhere near a military base, soI got like the you know,
condensed, fast paced versionand then I just started like
what I did brother is at TexasTech.
(23:40):
Before teaching, before doinganything, I would go in around
after working out.
I would go in around 738 in themorning after dropping my kids
off at school and I'd sit in myoffice and I would do every
three days a week at a minimumone hour to one and a half hours
of self-development, meaning Iwas doing something for my life
after the Army.
That included getting mymedical record straight,
(24:00):
something for my life after theArmy.
That included getting mymedical record straight.
That included finding othertransition programs out there
other than SFL TAP, whichthey're a huge, and I'll quote a
couple.
The most important and, I think, beneficial for me was it was
called 4Block, where I got tonetwork one day a week every
Wednesday for two hours wherethey would have people from all
(24:21):
different companies come talk tous X, amazon, john Deere,
builders First just a bunch ofdifferent companies that would
just interact and haverecruiters talk and show us how
to tailor resumes, you know,adjust and work on our elevator
pitches and all that stuff.
And that's where I learned aboutthe you know the Army mentioned
(24:42):
, you know, in SFL tap with theskill bridge program was, but I
still didn't, it still didn'tclick to, to how it would apply
to me and where I would do it,because I was retiring in
Lubbock, texas.
So there's not a lot of bigcompanies here Like, if you,
skill bridge is a lot easier togo with these named ones that
are already approved by themilitary.
But that doesn't don't let thatdeter you, because there's.
(25:04):
If you, let's say, your mom ordad knew somebody who owned a
business that they wanted tohire you, you can do a private
skill bridge through them.
It just takes a little bit moreof legwork, right?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I did not know that.
I appreciate you telling methat, because I thought I mean
basically every company.
Just they can all follow thesame process right To get like,
approved as a skill bridgeprovider.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Yeah, absolutely, and I'll share it with you after
this or I'll push it to you onLinkedIn.
Yeah, please.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I've had friends that have asked me, like company
friends, like yeah, we want todo this, we want to support vets
, and I don't know where topoint them to.
So if you could, yeah, we'lldefinitely share it.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, I will, man, and I have buddies that offered
me like.
I know Shane, this guy's fromSan Antonio.
He offered me a skill bridge inSan Antonio working at CM
Constructors awesome commercialconstruction company.
But yeah, I mean, he gotapproved to be a skill bridge,
which means it's recognized bythe army.
It doesn't take much stuff toget it approved.
The hardest part for a vet toget approved for the Skill
(25:59):
Bridge program is, sadly it'ssenior leaders.
Because you're so it's not thatyou're more important than the
lower enlisted.
You have a lot ofresponsibilities and people need
to understand, like you need toarticulate to the Army how your
job being unfilled becausethey're not going to fill and
send a replacement until you'reretired.
So right now my office at Tech,I still have it at Texas Tech.
(26:23):
You know there's things I stilldo for them, but I'm not
supposed to and you knownobody's going to do that.
So what I did was I made damnsure that I built predictability
in that seat so that thatoperation would function without
me there.
And that's what I did and mybrigade commander had no issues
approving me for 120-dayinternship.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
That's awesome, so okay.
So we kind of skirted around it.
So you're in the Skill Bridgeprogram right now and who is it
that you're working for?
And let's talk about whatyou're doing and how it relates
to construction and why you'reon here in the first place.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, I'm sorry man.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
No, it's my fault, you're good.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I got a thick story man.
I love it.
Yeah, it's actually magic,scott, I was hitting dead end
after dead end here in Lubbock,texas, where my kids love to go
to school, where I bought myfirst home and there was nobody
that here would sponsor me orwanted to do the rigmarole to
get me sponsored.
I interviewed other buildersand I wanted to go into
(27:19):
construction, which I learnedthrough a transition program.
You to other builders and Iwanted to go into construction,
which I learned throughtransition program because I
want to do something tangible.
Not that I'm not proud ofeverything I've ever done in the
military.
A lot of the times we work andwe run, we're like a snake
eating her own tail, but there'snothing at the end of it that
you could see.
It's nothing tangible andthat's the definition of
insanity to me.
So what I ended up doing, manis, I figured I want to do
something tangible.
I would love to drive past theschool and be like hey man, I uh
(27:41):
to my kids like Florian Maya,leah, I helped build that.
You know what I mean, um, butanywho, I got a text one day
after, after interviewing withpower home remodeling in San
Antonio good company forrenovations and I got a random
call on LinkedIn or a text fromAnthony May.
Who's the general manager atbuilders first source in Lubbock
, texas?
Who's the general manager atBuilders First Source in Lubbock
(28:02):
, texas?
They have three locations hereand what Builders First Source
is?
It's a national like nationwidedistributor for construction
materials.
This ranges from lumber, timber, simpson ties, all different
types of hardware, windows,doors, anything you need to
(28:23):
build residential and commercialstructures right.
And we have a yard where Icurrently work.
It's a lumber yard.
And then across town we have atruss facility where they
produce customized, you know, tothe architectural and
structural plans, roof trussesand floor trusses with
engineered wood.
And then we have a door millright and our door mill is
(28:48):
really the magic here.
It's crazy to me what they do.
So, bottom line, they prettymuch fabricate and build doors
for structures and for you andsomebody who's been in
construction, you know just howhard that kind of is, both on
the commercial and residentialside, because it's not like one
size fits all right and everyrough opening is different and
(29:08):
every commercial project orresidential project calls for a
certain type of door and acertain type of spec, a fire
rating, so like they build allthose things and do custom
mortising, striking for hardwareI mean they do all of it boring
for locking and securing.
So what we do, what they do, isthey end up deliver all these
construction materials to thesebuilders locally that end up
(29:33):
building these structures Um.
Do you have any questionsbefore I go on to what I do, sir
?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
No, I just it's funny because, as you're talking
about doors, like I've told guysover the years, doors, frames
and hardware are like the onetrade I hate to love it Like.
I love it because it's sointricate, but it is so freaking
difficult to try to understandall the different types of lock
sets, all the different types offrames, and then you get into
(30:00):
like the commercial side withthe electrified frames and it's
like it's extremely confusing.
So I'll share a real quickstory before we go on that.
My first project that I was ondude, I, we had a senior
superintendent and his only jobon a close to a hundred million
dollar building.
His only job because we hadlike six league guys was door
(30:22):
frames and artwork, because it'sthat difficult.
So it's just funny you bringthat up, but yeah anyway, uh,
let's, let's talk about kind ofwhat your specific role is at
builders first.
Source.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah.
So, and just to say somethingimportant for all the vets
listen, or anybody that'sthinking about hiring a vet, or
maybe thinking about the skillbridge program I have zero
construction experience otherthan doing tweaks around the
house, which is really nothingcrazy.
It's not framing, it's notpouring slab, it's nothing right
.
I have zero experience beforeBuilders First Source and
(30:53):
somehow this general manager,anthony May, who I owe a lot I'm
indebted to and hopefully I'mlike helping him out.
But, bottom line man, what I dois he.
A big market here in Lubbock,texas, is multifamily commercial
structures and what that is is,you know, you got apartment
complexes, duplexes, and they'repopping up everywhere, as you
(31:16):
can imagine, in a flat desert ofWest Texas.
So what he told me is there isa you know, for a long time
they've had just OSRs, outsidesales reps that sell all these
materials, but they're notreally operations managers to
make sure things are gettingdelivered right and when they're
ordered like you don't know.
It's not like going to thestore and being like man, I need
(31:36):
a gallon of milk and some Oreocookies for my kids, like, and I
just need to get these thingson a list right.
So you got to deliver a product.
That product needs to build thespecification correctly, but
it's got to be delivered at areal pivotal time.
And that pivotal time is likeokay, residential stuff they're,
(31:56):
they've framed, stick framed.
You know the layout of thebuilding.
They went ahead and did drywall.
Now they started texturing.
Right around that time yourdoors need to be getting
produced.
All right, your windows areprobably.
Well, they are already inserted.
Of course, we can't bedelivering doors when it's stick
framed, because those doors arejust going to sit somewhere.
Those walls got to getdrywalled and tape embedded and
(32:18):
then textured and then thosedoors need to get hung.
Now here's the deal aboutconstruction.
For anybody that has been thereand knows the pain, the
construction managers paylaborers to hang those doors.
So if they go and they pay themon site and those doors don't
show up, what happens is theycharge us, they backcharge us
and we pay for that.
And it was happening a lot here.
(32:39):
So Anthony brought me in and hewanted me to build, with my zero
experience the only experiencethat he's seen in me that I can
run a team and lead teams, takeover operations.
That means interfacing withgeneral contractors, interfacing
(33:02):
with superintendents, otherconstruction project managers,
building a relationship andsolving problems, and that is
exactly what I did.
I went to the point of frictionand what I can tell you for
anybody out there that'sinterested in hiring a vet or a
vet interested in constructionyour skills in the military will
have you learn faster than ever.
I've been doing this since Mayand I'll let Scott be.
Have you learn faster than ever.
I've been doing this since Mayand I'll let Scott be the judge,
(33:23):
but it sounds like I've learneda little bit.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Dude, I'm so glad you said that as we're sitting here
talking, I'm like 120 days youhave picked up so stinking much.
That's taking a lot of guysyears.
So kudos to you.
Like I'm really impressedbecause that means a lot.
No, thank you.
And I had a guy I was on.
It was one of my first jobsites.
I don't think I was anassistant superintendent, I
(33:47):
think I was still a PE and hetold me like look, it's going to
take a while.
Like, especially when you getinto multi hundred million
dollar buildings, like there's alot of moving parts and pieces
You're doing really well gettingin on the ground floor.
Like learning just these basicsof getting stuff to the job site
(34:08):
is so critical, especially as asuper.
It's like, uh, I had a guy Iused to work for and he would
say just, just, uh, you know,give me the stuff and then we
can control it.
Basically, like, get it thereand then we can.
We can buy up time in theschedule any day.
Without the material though,we're useless.
And so the fact that you'relearning all this stuff is
really impressive.
And so this guy on one of myfirst sites is like hey, man, if
(34:29):
you don't really have a goodgrasp on this by like year three
to five, it's probably not thebest industry for you.
But I picked it up fairly quickbut it took me a few years to
really understand the ins andouts of every single trade and
building brand new buildingsyeah, but that's really neat and
so your story should beencouraging to other people.
(34:52):
It's like, hey, there's a lowbarrier to entry in construction
and I came in with no degree.
I hung on to the guys thatwould teach me everything and I
tried to be a sponge and itsounds like you're doing just
that.
But you are able to do thatjust because of your background
and like the humility that youhave.
Yeah, it sounds like you're alifelong learner too.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, and that's one thing about me, I did go to
college late.
It took me 10 years to get abachelor's degree in criminal
justice.
A lot of good that's doing forme other than just being like I
also have a degree.
But I will tell you, duringfour block I was able, like
there's a lot of things outthere for veterans, and once I
knew I was going to go intoconstruction or like getting
interested in it, I starteddoing Coursera courses and I did
(35:38):
the construction managementcourse through Coursera, through
Columbia University, Greatcourse, applying zero things.
I learned Most of the things Ilearned it's from doing right
and being there Again like I hadno experience, Like I am doing
some laborious things sometimesbecause it saves us money
(36:02):
ultimately and it solvesproblems Like you know.
Very custom door being delivered, it's the wrong swing bringing
it back and not charging theconstruction company, like going
back out there and hanging itmyself with my team.
Obviously we don't want to do alot of that because I'm
spending time doing that.
I'm not doing what a, you know,a project manager needs to do.
But again, there's a time and aplace.
But the benefit of doing it isthat once you do it, once, like
(36:25):
you kind of know it and you'reseeing the process.
So the next time you'reordering something or you're
checking the specs, as theseguys drop off hundreds of doors,
you know you're making sureit's right and you're catching
things that are wrong beforethey're hung, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, that are wrong before they're hung.
You know, yeah, no, and I, man,I'll tell you from experience
the fact that you're doing that,um, and going out there and
physically helping your guys,cause it's it's similar to the
military, where I don't know ifI necessarily always agreed with
this view of, like officersdon't help the enlisted guys, um
, and I get it to a point whereit's like, hey, you know, let
the, let the sergeants do theirjob and kind of run the guys,
(37:02):
but I don't know if Inecessarily always agreed with
the fact that I couldn't roll upmy sleeves and help the guys.
Now, as a superintendent, I didthat, but I didn't do it to
gain the respect, but it gaineda lot of respect from the guys
and the fact that you're doingit as a PM.
There's a guy I'm thinking of atan electrical company I worked
with over the years and ifthings were just tough on the
(37:24):
job site they didn't have enoughpeople or it was like we were
trying to get over a hump man hewould come and throw on his
tools.
He was an electrician by tradeand this is the guy wearing a
button down shirt all day, buthe would come out and he would
throw his tools on and help andI as his customer, and he would
throw his tools on and help and,like I, I as his customer,
respected him more than anyother project manager, even some
(37:45):
of the foreman.
I'm like, okay, this dudedoesn't have to do this, but
he's kind of coming down fromhis ivory tower, if you will, to
come help the guys out.
Yeah, so you're really layingthe foundation and I think this
is going to pay dividends foryou in the future, not only with
clients, but with your guysyou're working with too, for
sure.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah, no, that's awesome.
And like when I fell in, sowhen I signed in May 6th like it
was kind of funny becauseAnthony, you know Anthony May,
the general manager here, hekind of welcomed me.
He's a busy man right, he runsall three locations, you know,
he has obviously directreporting requirements to our,
our area manager and he worksfor a big corporation.
So as just like like brigadelevel leaders, like these guys
(38:26):
are hard to get in a room, youknow he, he felt like he wasn't
welcoming me to the team.
But like I'm like Anthony, whatare you talking about?
You?
I got here you had a computerwaiting for me, an account.
Like for anybody that's been inthe military that had to do
that, like it takes weeks, foranybody that's been in the
military that had to do that ittakes weeks I felt like I had a
cuticle.
I wasn't expecting anything,man, it felt really good.
And then he introduced me tosomebody that I knew a little
(38:49):
bit when I first started andhe's really done a lot for me
here and his name's Chad Puryear, great guy, he's our business
analyst.
He actually works for corporatebut he's stationed here in
Lubbock, texas, our yard, and hemanages our P and L and you
know help thread a lot of ourproblems um and gets ahead of
them Um.
But you know Anthony delegatedto him to build my skill bridge
(39:11):
schedule and you know I have itright here in front of me and uh
, just so I can kind of alludeto it.
So vets that like are thinkingabout skill bridge and like
nervous that they might bemaking a mistake, what they need
to know, man, is like yourskill bridge is not just you
doing work for free, it's you tolearn and realize.
It's like a two way uminterview, right, it's to make
(39:32):
sure what you're choosing isright for you, cause at the end
of it you're probably going totake it because it might not be
right for you, right, so it'sreally cool.
So I have this schedule.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
here You're dipping your toe in the water, if you
will Like.
You're trying to figure outreally what you want to do when
you get out.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah, and what's important right is the culture.
Is this culture right for me?
Somebody who's been verystructured for 21 years?
Can I do this?
Or am I going to be like peopleare going to look at me like
I'm building foxholes outside ofthe storefront windows, you
know?
No, like, all joking aside,like these are some of the
things I was thinking about,right, and before I go into the
(40:08):
schedule, I just want to talk.
Like the day I got here,anthony May pulls me and he's
like hey, man, I you know I toldeverybody that you're coming in
explain what the skill bridgewas.
He's like I don't think I'mdoing a good job, you know
explaining it.
But but honestly, man, like Ijust kind of like people are
afraid you're going to likemarch around and order people
around and like he was veryimpressed with, kind of how
(40:30):
quickly it is.
I kind of latched onto the team, um, which which really means a
lot to me, cause I little didthey know that I was inferior to
them.
I'm talking to men and womenthat have been doing this for 20
and 30 years and I was in awe,like I felt inferior.
Like man, I can never do this,um, but the magic really goes to
(40:50):
, you know, to Chad, with thewhole operation um over this 120
days.
So week one started with ononboarding, doing new hire
paperwork, meeting the team andstuff and safety training.
Week two, really just hittinghard in operations.
I spent time at the lumber yard, the millwork, the truss plant
and just watched operationshappen.
(41:11):
I didn't really lift anyhammers, I didn't really do
anything, but I was learning thedispatch process.
I was going on deliveries,roofing and lumber deliveries
and getting exposed a little bitto the truss design.
That's literally just one weekof stuff and that's a lot coming
at you.
But I didn't know that he wasinterested in me being a project
(41:32):
manager man, I don't even know.
I thought I was going intosales or something, but the deal
is, what he wanted to do is seewhere I would excel and see
what was where he could put meand, quite frankly, I don't even
think they had a position herefor me and, like I said, he kind
of created it, which is reallyawesome.
Week three and four we went.
I spent time with thesalespeople and let me tell you
(41:54):
something man, I, one of thelead sales reps here is this guy
.
He's pretty famous in WestTexas.
He used to be a builder.
His name's Reagan Reed.
He's awesome, he's a greathuman.
I shadowed him for two weeks,man.
And this guy runs and guns.
He spends a lot of times at thejob sites.
So his customers, I learned,send him the architectural plans
that he goes over and creates a.
(42:14):
He does a takeoff, creates alist of everything they need to
build that house, bids it like,quotes it pretty much, and then
they go with it and anythingexcess which there's not much,
because he's so dang good, heschedules to get pulled off and
gives the credit back.
So that's what makes BuildersFirst Store so freaking great.
We have a team that if you're abuilder, you just give them your
architectural plans right, andeach sales rep has a different
(42:38):
number of builders here, allwell-known ones in Lubbock, and
they do.
They literally look over yourplans.
They help value, engineer somethings and get you the right
amount of material.
But the best thing there islike and you know this, Scott,
if you're looking at plans andyou're looking at the framing,
okay, a California corner is aCalifornia corner, but there's
so much things you could dodifferently and it changes the
(43:03):
way you you utilize material.
So, like, each sales rep learnsthe way each builder builds so
they can, when these guys dotakeoff and the software is
telling them they need you knowthis many LVLs.
They know that builder doesn'tuse much LVLs and they use two
by six, triples and stuff likethat in their framing so they're
able to personalize it to thebuilder to make sure it's
accurate.
That's where things started toclick for me and that's where I
(43:26):
learned like dude.
I like this side of things, Ilike the field work, I like
being in here and understandingthe construction process, the
stages of construction, allright.
So in week five of my internship, that's really where I had my
exposure to multifamily andcommercial department.
A lot of problems going on andnothing we were doing wrong.
(43:49):
It's just we had sales repsreally running operations, which
those are two different things.
So we have three multifamilystructures going up with two
different construction companies.
We got the Erskine Apartments,which is a five-building
commercial residentialconstruction project.
It's a Jason Nassaloni build.
And then we have Citadel, whichis a big company.
(44:11):
Here they have an apartmentcomplex going up called the
Hartley Apartments and then theyhave Slide North, which is just
they're really in phase two ofthe build.
A lot of their buildings arealready being leased and now
they're adding three morebuildings.
So that's what I went into Alot of problems with things
(44:32):
spec-wise and a lot of misseddelivery times because of the
sheer numbers our door millneeded to produce, because we
were pretty much messing up spanof control and what an
individual person'sresponsibilities and number of
things they have to do no faultto anybody other than process.
And that's where I kind offocused my efforts and things
(44:54):
are up and running now, real,real, real well.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Very good man.
I'm just so excited, I'm reallyhappy for you because this
program I feel like and this isjust my take you probably could
have gone anywhere and just beensuccessful because of your
mannerisms and the way you are,and I'm so happy that you found
success in this and shout out toBuilders First, source and all
(45:18):
the guys out there and Anthonyand the guys that you're talking
about.
I'm just thank you to thoseguys for providing you this
opportunity and and reallyfostering that growth, because I
think you know this is just methinking.
I'm sure there's companies outthere that kind of go okay,
skill bridge is just some freelabor and probably don't pour
into people I'm not saying it'severybody, but I have to believe
(45:39):
there's companies out therethat are kind of taking
advantage of the program.
But to hear that they're doingsuch an awesome job really just
kind of makes my heart happy andthat's I'm so stoked for you,
man.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yeah, man, it's really cool.
And just to like to show youhow level playing field it was
about, about two weeks into thethe skill bridge, you know,
anthony pulled me in his office.
He's like hey, man, we're allpart of the West Texas Home
Builders Association here, whichis really cool.
They're currently building ahero home for a vet for free.
(46:10):
Like building him a home.
I'm sure I think he lost hishouse in a tornado or something
and relocated here to Lubbock.
But all these builders cometogether and donate material and
things and and they're building.
You know we're building amaterial, so they do a lot of
stuff.
So he asked me to come to aluncheon that we were hosting
and, uh, he asked me to speak.
He said he's not much of aspeaker, he's gonna open up some
(46:32):
things and introduce it, and ifI would speak, and I was like
what, and this is to all themajor builders in lubbock and
and I and I was like I was alittle nervous Like what, what
do I have?
But what he wanted to do is hewanted to share.
He wanted me to share um aboutthe skill bridge program and
what it is, and I made a QR codeso people can scan and learn
about it.
Um, and how I started thatintroduction is I was like, what
(46:55):
about a cool video?
Like in the army we always showlike a high speed motivated
video in the beginning.
So I had a video of me jumpingout of a C-130 after pushing the
F-47.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Zodiac out.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
So he introduces me and the video starts with the
back of my head, um, jumpingwith scuba gear on um out the
back of a C-130, after pushingan F-470 Zodiac boat and fully
inflated with a, an engine, youknow, strapped down to the
inside out the plane, um, andafter it stopped everybody kind
of looked at me and I was like,yeah, tough day in the office
(47:28):
and everyone started laughing.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Oh my gosh, that's good for you, man.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
And I don't want to cover much about that talk,
cause it's only about fiveminutes, cause, like these
people are very busy and theyhad a guest speaker and I wasn't
it and I didn't want to likeencroach on their time.
But I did say you know a lot ofus and we've heard it, that's.
I'm sure you heard Scott andall of you out there.
Like you've heard somebody saythank you for your service, but
nothing says thank you for yourservice.
(47:56):
Better than hosting a vet for aall paid internship at your
company to see if you can assistone veteran transition into
civilian life.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Yeah, well, said man, that's awesome.
Yeah, and it's such, you know,like I've said earlier and I
keep saying it's, I'm so stokedfor the vets of today that have
this program.
I'm like, I'm low key jealousbecause I'm like man, where was
this when I was in?
But it's, it's awesome thatsomebody finally recognized,
(48:27):
because we weren't.
Uh, some of us found our way.
You know, I became successfulafter, but so many other people
didn't.
And it's not I'm not sayingit's all on like the government
or the industry Um, you know,the impetus is on the guy or
girl to really take the firststep, but a lot of us were going
, okay, well, what is that firststep?
(48:48):
And so kudos to this wholeprogram being started and I know
it's changed a little bit.
Um, but you're, you know you'renot the first success story
I've talked to and it's, it'sawesome.
Um, I personally connected a guy.
He was, um, I go to thismonthly networking event in
Dallas.
That's, uh, half vets, halfindustry, like random, not just
(49:09):
construction but other industryleaders, and he hosted, uh, I
don't know, maybe half a dozenor more guys that were in the
skill bridge program and one guycame up to me and said, hey, I
want to be an electrician.
I said, well, that's perfect.
Here, go talk to this guy.
He's a friend of mine, he runsan electrical company and he is
I believe he's still there as anelectrician.
Um, but he wouldn't have hadthat opportunity to even like go
(49:32):
ask somebody without skillbridge.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah, no, 100% man, I don't know.
I know a lot of vets and I willtell you a lot of people.
They just don't think but startnetworking.
I'm telling you right now thatit helps, and then you'll
(50:01):
connect to a bunch of people andlearn about their trade and
you'll be able to make adecision.
The decision was made for me andthe hugest thing there was I
learned what I wanted to do, butI didn't just be like, oh, I
want to do this and I expect askill bridge to be handed to me.
I made the case for myself.
(50:21):
Right, there's going to bestringents, because you just
can't let everyone go, but ifyou do the groundwork to get in,
um, there's ways to do it Now.
For example, like I told them,like I'm going to be doing this
in Lubbock, texas, where I'mstationed as well.
So if anything happens, I can.
If you need me on a weekend togo you know safety of flat range
Dude I'll throw my fatigues onand go out there with these
college kids and get themqualified.
Like I'm still a soldier, youknow Um, but if you plan on
(50:45):
trying to do and some people dorelocating and doing a skill
bridge 50 miles away from whereyou're stationed, like it's a
leave form and the request goesto the first general in the
chain of command.
So do your research.
If you want it, you can obtainit.
You got to do the research.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
So do your research.
If you want it, you can obtainit.
You got to do the research.
Talk to your, you know, true,but let's say you started and
like you just weren't approved,they're like Nope, you're not
going to do it.
What do you think you wouldhave done when you get to that?
You know, last terminal leave,last month, terminal leave, like
what was your plan?
(51:31):
Going and getting out, Causethere's, there's people that are
in that position now and maybethey did get turned down.
What would you have done?
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Man, honestly, that's .
That is a difficult question.
Um, I one thing wouldn't startsaying life ain't on, life is
unfair, because guess what?
It is unfair and once yourecognize that, you'll realize
that you'll be successful,because it's never going to be
fair.
Um, I thought mine was going toget.
I already had a plan B, right,because I thought I was going to
get um kind of not, I don'twant to say fraggled, not many
people know that.
(52:02):
I mean, I thought they weren'tgoing to prove my skill bridge,
right, because I did some thingsto get, you know, a replacement
, not a replacement, butsomebody could fill my tracks,
because in my office I had onemore green suitor, another army
sergeant first class who PCS,before me and I would be leaving
my Lieutenant Colonel to runour program with me.
Another green suitor, who'sNational Guard or our Active
(52:26):
Guard, and then I'd try to getanother Sergeant First Class.
Sadly, we got a major who didsomething unethical and got
removed from the seat very earlyon in college, you can imagine.
And then we got a SergeantFirst Class who, right before he
reported, he got a DUI so thathe couldn't teach.
So really I was leaving.
And this is where I felt guilty, right, because I'm like man,
(52:47):
I'm about to leave my partner,my ranger buddy, and that's Tom
Stevenson, great Lieutenant,colonel man who's still at Tech,
and I love him.
But I felt guilty and I toldTom like I'm going to cancel
this whole thing.
But he said no man, like he'slike you paid your way, you did
these things.
You've set this program up forsuccess.
Just look at the timeline.
Maybe you agree.
(53:08):
Okay, they want to prove 120.
Do 90.
And then I actually startedreaching out and I found an NCO
that I served with in 6th RangerTraining Battalion, who from
Lubbock, who wanted to cometeach here.
So I got him the report early.
He just got here.
So now school started and he'shere.
So there's things you can do.
But my plan B to answer yourquestion was to continue the
(53:29):
same process networking, doingCoursera courses to get me some
level of experience and reap thearmy for all the educational
benefits for transitioning thatI could get paid for to include
the project manager managementprofessional certificate, um,
certified associate in projectmanagement.
Um, if you're a tech nerd,nothing against you.
(53:50):
I'm just not that kind of guy.
Like um, you can go get why,like night school, like online
or whatever your securitycertificates, um, which I
thought about too.
And to to write code, likeonline, or whatever your
security certificates, which Ithought about too and to write
code.
There's so much you can do.
And then, once you hit terminalleave, then you'll have a direct
higher position while you'restill getting paid in the army.
That's what I would do.
(54:11):
You got to feed your family,you got to pay your bills that's
first, but you also have aresponsibility to the contract
you sign faithfully andhonorably first, but you also
have a responsibility to thecontract you signed faithfully
and honorably.
And that was my plan, scott tojust keep networking, keep
talking to people.
The process would be the same.
The only difference is Iwouldn't be here getting all
this hands-on experience man.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
I love it, dude, I've really enjoyed this.
I know this we kind of ranlonger than most of my
interviews, but that wassomewhat intentional, just
because you're in a reallyspecial position.
Um, I got a quick couple ofrapid fire things for you.
Um sure what?
What would you be?
What would you consider yourgo-to tool on the job site?
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Oh, my go-to tool is my cell phone, okay.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Okay, that's good, all right.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
I'll give multiple.
The second one I would say is atape measure.
You wouldn't believe how manyconstruction managers and people
just don't have it on them andneed it.
I walk buildings every day ofmy life and if you look at my
LinkedIn and I'm sure Scott willshare it and you could follow
my if you want, if you'reinterested in your event, look
(55:17):
at my LinkedIn.
I post every couple weeks or soabout how the skill bridge was
going.
I post pictures from job sites.
You could see me getting alittle bit you know, a little
bit hairy around my face, butyou could watch the experience
and the magic in the making.
But I would walk job sites,measure rough openings and then
any problems I had I would takeit to the superintendent and be
(55:38):
like, hey, man, I think theserough openings were framed wrong
, or the wall depth becauseyou're using this drywall and a
2x6.
Like, these doors that are onthe plans aren't right.
Right, and it would solveproblems up front and what that
does for you.
That little tape measure ledinto building trust, right, and
then you just end up solvingproblems.
(55:58):
There's so many that are solvedby that tape measure.
It is insane, and there's nottwo alike.
Speaker 2 (56:03):
Right, and I will say it's also, uh, the one tool
I've gotten stolen more than any.
For sure, I can't tell you howmany dozens of of tape measures
I've had to buy over the years,but, um, okay, Coffee or energy
drink.
Coffee all day Blacker thannight Chewy Like that bad, yeah,
(56:24):
yeah.
You don't want to be lickingyour lips and burping three
hours later and taste it.
Last rapid fire, what have youfound to be?
Oh man, I don't know if I wouldask you this, but what's the
hardest trade to work with?
Oh man, you're going to getyourself in in trouble.
You don't have to answer, butyou're gonna get yourself in
trouble.
Everybody razzes theelectricians, and some of my
(56:46):
best friends are electric.
Yeah, everybody razzes them,but they are some of the hardest
working dudes they are so theyknow they're good.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
That's the hard part quick story on the electrician,
and it's two in the same week atthis huge apartment complex.
We got going in but I'moverseeing 200 doors getting
dropped at this site.
And you know the way I do it is.
I break it down by line item,by rough opening.
That's something I instilled inthem and did so.
(57:16):
Ultimately, what was happeningis they would take doors and
they were putting them in therough openings and they were
running out of the right hand orthe left hand, whatever they
needed for the door.
So I was like that's a problem.
Now we're overproducing, whichcosts money, because customer
goodwill is a real thing inconstruction when you mess
something up.
So you got to like I wouldsituate, I'd have my team
situate the doors as I inventoryand check spec by rough opening
, by line item.
(57:37):
Um, and that allowed and Iexplained it to all the
construction managers so theyknew exactly what they were
getting and where every doorwent.
And then those problems stopped.
Um, but we had an electricianwhen we were delivering.
He's like no, you can't putthese here.
And he started telling my guysyou know my, just my delivery
guys to move them, which theseare exterior doors and they're
pretty heavy, um, some with somewith glass inserts, and I was
(58:00):
like hold on, man, like I don'twant to cause you trouble, I
know you got a job to do, butyou know, let's talk to the
project manager who came inthere and he's just very Rico
Suave was like no man, you weresupposed to be here four hours
ago.
Anyway, these doors are stayinghere.
You work around them.
And then, secondly to that, Iwas checking the handings on
these doors that we were aboutto build and produce for them
and I noticed that theelectrical box going into the
(58:22):
back door was on the left side,but the plan was specced for a
left-hand door.
Now, if you're a human and youimagine going into your house
opening the door from the rightside of the jam and the light
switch being on the left side,you'd have to open the door all
the way and jump on the backsidethat, flip the light on.
That's a no go man.
Um, so like we brought that upand he had to run some wires and
(58:45):
move some electrical terminalstuff.
But yeah, they just make thingsdifficult and they got a really
specific job to do and and,quite frankly, like your wall is
only so big and has so manythings in it.
So they you know they have adifficult job and it makes other
people's lives much moredifficult.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
Yeah, and I will say I have been fortunate enough to
work with a lot of really goodelectricians.
Like the last job I was on andI talked about this guy, I think
, in my solo episode that he waslike late 20s stellar
electrician working his butt off.
Guys are twice his age and hewas just guys on his crew were
(59:22):
twice his age and he was justsuch a good leader and it
encouraged me like, hey look,the industry is in good hands
with these younger guys that arecoming up, but they've got a
tough job, like you said, butthey can make or break your site
.
But I've been fortunate to workwith a lot of really good
electricians and it's man, it'sit's so much like the military
where every branch teases eachother.
(59:44):
It's the same on the job site,like if you got a good set, a
sense of humor I'm a carpenterby trade and of course the guys
are like, oh, where's your nailpolish?
And you know we tease eachother and it's like you have a
good time and it's the samething like you have a good time
and it's the same thing, youknow, in the service and that's
why I think it's such a goodtransition.
So, all that said, man, I'mgoing to.
I'm going to wrap up here, carl.
(01:00:05):
Thanks again, man.
I mean this is.
I've been looking forward totalking to you.
I'm glad we finally jumped onthis, and if there's any way
that I can help you, please byall means reach out, carl and I.
(01:00:25):
I I I'm not too far from you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
I mean, you're kind of in the middle of nowhere in
Lubbock, uh, but if you everfind yourself out in Dallas,
dude, I mean, there is a meal atour home for you any day,
absolutely well expect me, man.
I like the Rangers, I like theCowboys.
It's been 30 years since we wona championship, so let's go.
Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Oh man, I am not a Cowboys fan.
I just talked about that on thelast episode with the guy I
grew up 10 minutes fromCincinnati Ohio, so I'm a
Bengals fan and in fact the nextseason for the Rangers their
opener is against the CincinnatiReds, so you can believe I'm
going to be there.
I'm stoked.
Yeah, man, yes, sir, that'sawesome hey last thing If people
(01:00:54):
want to get a hold of you,what's the best way to do so?
Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
The best way to get a hold of me, I'll just plug my
email address.
I will never turn down an emailfrom a vet or anybody.
I get emails from people thatI've served with 15, 16 years
ago.
I don't have social media otherthan LinkedIn.
I'm not a fan of everybody'spolitical opinion, quite frankly
, so for my mental health I donot have a link, or I don't have
a Facebook or you know anythingelse like that.
Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
What is the one?
Everyone likes Tickertalk, andI don't.
I don't have that stuff.
Tickertalk, yeah, you're likeaging yourself.
You sound like a 60 year oldman.
Yeah, no, I'm sorry, but I have.
I do have a.
Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
LinkedIn, carl Muller it's Carl with a K,
k-a-r-l-m-u-l-l-e-r.
You'll see a good picture of meon there.
Also, you can hit me up at carlK-A-R-L.
Dot Muller, m-u-l-l-e-r atBLDRcom.
I also just want to kind of endwith look, always Rangers lead
(01:01:56):
the way, veterans.
In construction, you can do thesame thing, or any trade you're
interested in.
You know, and in construction,what I've learned and what I
really love about is we don'tjust build projects right, we
need to build teams, communitiesand a future worth fighting for
, just on a differentbattlefield.
Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Amen, man.
What a way to close it.
I appreciate you, dude.
Yeah, buddy Thank you forhaving me.
Yes, sir, absolutely.
You've heard somebody say thank you for your service,
but nothing says thank you foryour service.
Better than hosting a vet foran all-paid internship at your
company to see if you can assistone veteran transitioning to
civilian life.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
This is the Construction Veteran Podcast,
connecting and celebratingveterans in construction.
Now here's your host, scottFriend.
I must say I'm more excitedabout this episode than many.
I'm going to bring you CarlMoeller, a gentleman that went
through the SkillBridge programsuccessfully and has an amazing
(00:38):
story to tell.
Let's dig into it.
Hey, carl, how are you, sir?
I'm doing well, sir, how areyou?
I'm good man.
I am very, very, very excitedto have you on here.
Um, as I alluded to a coupleepisodes ago, carl is the one
(01:01):
that I was excited to talk to,as he is currently going through
the Skill Bridge and finishingup the Skill Bridge program,
something I wasn't ever exposedto, something I've heard a lot
about and I've met people.
But, man, I'm just thank you,thank you, thank you for making
the time to do this.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, really, the pleasure is all mine, sir, I'm
honored to be asked and if Icould pay my experience forward,
I absolutely want to.
It's been a great thing thusfar as I come to the closing of
it.
But yeah, I would love to sharemy experience and hopefully
help a couple vets out.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Awesome man.
I appreciate it.
So I want to start at thebeginning.
Where are you from and what ledyou to join the military, and
how old were you when you signedup?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
All right.
So I you know, I want to goback real quick.
A long time ago I didn't do sowell at a spelling test in third
grade, I believe it was.
My teacher was Ms McFun.
Um, you know I didn't do well.
And she asked me you know, whydidn't you do well?
And I said why.
I don't want to go to collegeor anything.
I want to join the army, I wantto be a soldier.
I know it's a silly question.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Wow, In third grade you knew it.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, I didn't really know it, though.
That was just a poor excuse forme not studying.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
So I end up.
You know it's always been athing.
I played a lot of sports.
You know football, baseball,wanted to football baseball.
I wanted to go to college.
Rutgers showed some interest,but bottom line college is
expensive.
They would give me a tuitionbut not a full ride.
(02:35):
I can't afford to live and eat.
So I just decided to join theArmy.
I met a recruiter and he was a19-kilo nice guy, my Master
Sergeant Calgill.
He kind of rode me in and saidwhat do you want to do?
And I'm like I don't know, man,I just thought you carry a
rucksack and a rifle.
So that's what I did and that'show my story started.
I was 17 years old when Isigned the contract after my dad
(02:56):
signed allowing me to.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Very cool.
So let's talk about the valuesand discipline you kind of get
from your service and man you'vehad.
So you were retiring very soonafter 21 years of service and I
know I'm asking a broad questionhere.
But what kind of values ordiscipline do you think from
your time in the service hasstuck with you the most?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, that's a really good question and, quite
frankly, this is something thatyou kind of understand because
you're taught the Army valuesright, and there's seven common
principles that we all, despiteyour background or where you're
coming from, that we need tokeep in check, to work with each
other, and you don't really.
You know that helps a largegroup of people strategically
(03:40):
work together very well, but youdon't really know and
appreciate what it doesindependently for you.
Later it becomes some of yourculture and things I'm talking
about is like discipline in themilitary.
Even though sometimes it feelslike to you individually, it's
just a mark on the wall andyou're not there.
You are light years beyond mostprofessional organizations.
(04:02):
I can promise that, and it'scertainly what we call standards
and what discipline that I'mtalking about is doing what's
right legally and morally.
You know it doesn't even takesometimes a deliberate thought
process.
Let's see, integrity is a hugeone, right, like I used to say.
You know, I caught a guythrowing some stuff on the
(04:22):
ground and I remember saying tomy soldiers and explaining why
we would pick up trash.
It's like we're picking it upbecause the people throwing it
on the ground imagine all theother things they do when no
one's looking.
Oh, that's good.
Yeah, that equates toaccountability, which is
freaking huge Accountability,self-ownership, self-ownership,
(04:47):
um, and that's just going tobuild on a very pillared tier of
qualities like teamwork, uh,where, where it's actions that
you know, together withaccountability and integrity, to
build that discipline, whereit's not just words.
Right, it's life or death, yeah, man that's I appreciate
honestly.
Uh, scott, what I would say islike the same principles apply
in construction, and I'm surewe're going to talk about it,
because projects get built.
You're seeing it lay out beforeyour eyes, but the big thing is
(05:11):
there's more than just theproject getting built.
Teams need to stay safe, yourstructure in your team, you need
to build as a community and,again, that discipline will
continuously grow if you get theteam dynamic right and there's
only a concoction of things thatyou should have to make that
productive, and I really thinkit's accountability, discipline
(05:35):
and just having the ability toapply some of the concepts such
as leadership that we learned inthe military, the duty and what
you're doing and buying in toget your subordinates to buy in
respecting each other.
It all plays into itself andthere isn't one value I'd say is
more important than the other,and it certainly applies in the
construction industry.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, Well said my friend.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
No, it's good, and so it's kind of like an
all-encompassing thing.
There's not like one value.
I get it.
You kind of you build the wholeperson, um, so let let's go
through your, your service, uh,I know it's kind of hard to
compress 21 years, but if, if wetake a couple minutes, let's
talk about, um, what your roleswere, where you, where you uh,
(06:21):
were stationed at, and somedeployments.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Sure, yeah, 21 years, let's see.
So it all started off withbasic training in Fort Benning,
georgia, where I went toinfantry school.
Didn't really think I was goingto be good at it.
I just followed the guy infront of me and somehow made it
through, went to airborne schoolbecause you get paid a little
more.
And then I found out that I wasgoing to the 25th Infantry
Division, where I went andshortly deployed after getting
(06:47):
there to my first tour to Iraq,knocked out, that tour got back,
the unit re-flagged, the 25thInfantry Division re-flagged to
the 2nd Cavalry Regiment andbecame a you know stayed, a true
striker unit where I moved overto Germany, which was a pretty
cool move for an 18, 19-year-oldkid to move so far away from
(07:09):
home and be that independentwhen I started to think like an
adult, something I think isanother reason I'm successful in
having a very determined andmotivated mind just being
isolated in a foreign country byyourself.
Mind just being isolated in aforeign country by yourself.
Um well, I was in the 25th, sir.
I served, as you know.
It started as just a rifleman.
It moved up into being a youknow squad, designated
(07:38):
marksmanship, uh, marksmansniper.
Um made my way to the secondCalvary regiment and this is
where I really realized like myfuture in the in the army, uh
wasn't three years to get somecollege money't three years to
get some college money, or fouryears to get some college money,
which was my original plan.
By the way, um, I'll becompletely honest with you.
Um, my first patrol, uh,september 30th, uh, my my team
leader and good friend fromRawls, texas, randy Olgin, got
shot in his head, right besideme.
(07:59):
Um, evacuated him and, justlike we say in the army, you got
to pick up that, you know,evacuated him and just like we
say in the army, you got to pickup that.
You know that leader's radioand you know, drive the mission
forward and, sadly, withoutthought like I don't get any
credit for that that's what wewere trained to do.
You know I did it and wehoisted him out of there.
Sadly he passed away from theyou know major hemorrhage to his
(08:21):
head from a gunshot wound.
But I realized there that, likeyou know, the Army is what I
want to do.
Like it scared me, but I wascomfortable in my team and I was
learning valuable skills andpeople started to depend on me.
Early on After that deploymentI ended up staying there for a
while, man, I bounced around, Istayed in the recon units a
(08:45):
sniper, worked my way up to be asenior scout observer, then an
assistant team leader and thenwhat they call a squad leader in
the recon world.
And after doing that it comesaround the time I made the
sergeant first class.
I was deployed to Afghanistantwice with that unit.
Nothing significant to reportthere other than it was tough
(09:08):
Afghanistan's a lot differentthan Iraq, a couple different
challenges, but I think theunique skills I learned in Iraq
and as a young man applied withleading those troopers.
And you know I got back fromthat.
I was supposed to be on anine-month tour, my fourth tour,
which was my last one toAfghanistan, sir, and you know I
(09:29):
knew the brigade commander, avery famous guy now.
He's General Douglas Arthur Simsnow and he asked me to stay and
be his personal PSD through theAfghan presidential election,
the second one where Karzai wasremoved from office.
With that being said, you know,nine months boots on ground,
they extended me for another 12month tour and I stayed.
I chose to stay and when I gotback I found out I got promoted
(09:52):
to Sergeant First Class shortlyafter and I was moving to, I was
coming off the line for thefirst time the operational units
to go to be a ranger instructorin 6th RTB in Florida.
To be be quite honest, I alsotry to get after get out of that
um, can we sidetrack?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
why were you trying to get out of it that and so, uh
, let me expand on it reallyquick.
So he's talking, you're talkingabout ranger training battalion
.
Um, not everybody that listensis a vet.
Can we talk about, like, whatis?
I'm sorry about that people hearabout a ranger um, there's
ranger school, there's ranger,uh, regiment big difference.
Um, but so you were going to gotraining at the ranger training
(10:30):
battalion in Florida.
And so tell me what, why wereyou?
That's interesting.
You say that.
Why, why did you not want to dothat at first?
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Um, I think the I don't know man.
Quite frankly, it's a crappything to say, but it's true.
It's nothing against the unit,it's nothing against the job,
it's it's about everything I'vedone right, like I've learned
the principles of winning agunfight from 2000 and pretty
much five when I joined the armyall the way until now, or 2004,
all the way until now.
Um, you do all that and getgood at it.
(11:01):
It's not that you feelcomfortable, it's that like you
know how it is, like you getpromoted to one position, you
get very good at it, just enoughtime to get the next position
and then learn all that stuff.
So I was.
It's not that I was climbingthe chain, it was.
I was actually, by the time Iwas getting comfortable doing
the jobs and realizing that Ican influence other people's
other people to you know, makethe organization better or
(11:21):
accomplish our mission.
I was just learning veryquickly that you know I was
doing well and then all of asudden I'm doing something
completely foreign.
I'm going into a TRADOC unit,which is, you know, training and
you know teaching a bunch ofsoldiers that you know they're
there temporarily.
These aren't my guys.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Right, and I'm sorry I misspoke.
It's Ranger Training Brigade,not Battalion, correct?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
It's Army's Ranger Training Brigade, not battalion
correct, it's Army's RangerTraining Brigade.
Yeah, brigade, okay I said it abit, the ARTB is the unit and
then the battalion I was in was6th Ranger Training Battalion in
Eglin Air Force Base Florida.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Okay.
So anyway, I totallysidetracked you, I'm sorry.
So you went to RTB in Florida,spent a few years there, and
then where did you go from there?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, so bottom line with the ranger instructor thing
, I'm glad that my sergeantmajor said you're going to be
good at it, get out of my face.
And I went um because one mywife got to enjoy the beach.
Um, my, my first son was bornthere, florian, um, born in
Florida.
You know I got to be on areptile team.
I got to do a couple firsts.
I wasn't home very often causewe work a lot Um, but I learned
a lot of things that I would saybuilt skills for me to solve
problems today, um.
(12:29):
So I stayed in um RTB for awhile.
I knew I wanted to go backoperational to an airborne unit.
Um, you know I've been to abunch of schools while I was
there.
Um, I ended up.
I ended up making just someweird assignment.
I got some weird assignment, uhearly on before, like a year
before I was supposed to leaveum Florida, and it was to the
(12:51):
173rd infantry brigade combatteam, airborne.
Uh.
It's one of the most pridefulunits I've ever been a part of.
It's one of the mostchallenging and dynamic units
I've ever been a part of.
Um.
I wasn't home very often.
I had a lot of differenttransitions there and challenges
.
I served as a platoon sergeantimmediately my family was still
(13:12):
in the hotel my first trainingdeployment to Bulgaria.
It was a major airfield seizureand joint warfighter exercise
Pretty crazy to do in a foreigncountry where your family's in a
hotel.
I served as a platoon sergeantfor pretty much a year and a
half before I found out that Iwas making the E-8 list which
would be promotion to mastersergeant, where they laterally
(13:32):
promoted me to first sergeant,which you can't do anymore, and
I went right into being a firstsergeant of a line company, did
that for almost two years andthen I took over the higher
headquarters company as one ofthe senior first sergeants.
I will tell you that was kindof a really difficult point,
just to be honest with you, andthis will kind of allude and be
(13:55):
a good lead-in, scott, to why Ipicked up and wanted to do the
construction thing.
To be quite honest, man, when Iwas a first sergeant I loved my
job being the master trainer ofa company and I loved working
with the dynamic and greatleaders that were coming out of
the Ranger Regiment to leadcompanies in the 173rd.
(14:15):
But, man, I was dying inside.
I wasn't being a good husband,I wasn't being a great father.
My second born child, maya,who's six right now, was born in
Italy, where this unit is based, and I was just never home and
when I was home, all I did was Iwas on my phone, I was being a
first sergeant, taking care ofmy people and I was messing it
up, man.
So it got to the point wherethey gave me a higher
(14:38):
headquarters company, somethingI was foreign to, but I did a
decent job.
I was also fighting a lot ofinjuries from jumping.
I needed some surgeries andstuff and I came down on an
assignment that that what Iwould have went to west point.
But long story short, it got.
It got deleted for some reasonor another.
And then, uh, I had a line intoa very, very good battalion
(15:00):
commander who knew that I neededto leave the operational line
to heal up.
But I needed to do somethingwith influence and what I was
able to do is I got assigned Ididn't even know where it was
man to be an observer coachtrainer in California, out in
the Mojave Desert, ntc.
It's a training base that I'venever personally had a training
rotation in.
(15:20):
It's in the middle of thedesert where I would be a
company trainer for infantrycompanies and mechanized
companies that come there and,quite frankly, man, I loved it.
I was, you know, even though Iwas busy out, sometimes for 48
hours, I was able to come homeand be a father to my kids and
be a husband and work on some ofthose things, build a
relationship with Jesus Christand just focus on some of those
things, build a relationshipwith Jesus Christ and just focus
(15:41):
on some of the things I wasn'tdoing.
But that was short-lived, man.
I came down on an assignment toTexas Tech University because I
was a key development timecompleted master sergeant, which
means I have the leadershiptime required to go to the next
position, and I was neededsomewhere else at a university
as pretty much the operationsleader um for the college.
(16:02):
I try to get rid of thatassignment because I knew I was
going to be.
I had, I was very confident,sir, that I was going to get
promoted to Sergeant major andmake the list uh, first look, mq
, to go to El Paso shortly, um,where I would go to the Sergeant
majors Academy.
Obviously, branch didn't careand they said you got Texas tech
, you, you need to go.
So my wife, after 11 months ofbeing in California, we moved
(16:24):
over to Lubbock, texas, where wecurrently are right now, and
four months after being there,sir, I was named on the MQ list
to go to El Paso.
So if you haven't been in themilitary, this is one of the
struggles right here.
Right, I just moved.
After being in Italy for sixyears, I moved to Lubbock, texas
, after 11 months of being inCalifornia and in seven or eight
(16:47):
months, come July, I was goingto go move again to El Paso,
stay there for 18 months forschooling, then PCS somewhere
else to be an operationssergeant major where I think I
would be competitive, to getpromoted into a command sergeant
major position.
That's three moves in acalendar year.
And what I will tell you, scott, is this is where things in
construction come to fruition inmy mind.
(17:10):
When I found out I made thepromotion list or the star major
list to go to school, I wascelebrating a whole career of
accomplishments.
I was getting congratulated byall my friends and my peers man
Like oh yeah, you succeeded.
But I looked at my wife, maria,and she just wasn't happy man.
She cried tears, and thoseweren't tears that were
(17:32):
celebratory.
It was pain because I wasdragging my kids from school to
school.
It was.
You know he's not going to bearound again, he's going back to
the airborne community wherethose guys stay deployed.
And I took a long walk, man, Itook a couple weeks to think
about it and talk to God and Idon't know.
He just kind of said to me likeyour time is done, man, you've
given enough.
And I don't feel guilty aboutit, even though a couple of my
(17:56):
mentors I reached out.
They said I was being selfishfor retiring because I applied
for retirement and got approved,sir.
And then I started doing theSFL tap thing and started
thinking about what I wanted todo.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Man, I'm speechless at the moment.
I can't thank you enough foryour humility and all of that
and what you shared like veryheavy things you shared and your
faith.
Obviously, I'm a man of faithas well.
I've shared that openly.
Um, thank you Like.
I think it's really easy forguys in your position, um,
(18:34):
who've done a lot of things donemultiple combat deployments to
get um, I don't want to say abig head, but you kind of get
this like I'm tougher thananything kind of mentality.
And what I've learned torespect the most is guys like
yourself and guys at the tip ofthe spear that say, hey, you
know, I've I have some issues Ineed to work through and being
(18:57):
so humble about it.
So thank you for that man, Ireally appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, scott, and you nailed it right.
It's not an easy thing to talkabout, like you know.
The first thing that comes tomind is no one is more
professional than I.
Like you could be professionaland still undergo human nature,
and we are not robots.
And I learned that If I couldshare my story and help another
vet realize like hey, man, it'sOK to like have second thoughts
(19:23):
about what you're doing andstart thinking about you.
Like I said earlier, when wewere just, you know, kind of
shooting the crap, you don'tneed to die in uniform and
everyone has an expiration dateand there's a time that's right
for anybody.
Now there's some freaks ofnature out there that that can
do it.
A couple that come to mind are,like Sergeant Major Daly, the
ex Sergeant Major of the Army.
Those guys are superhuman, youknow, and and I and I thank God
(19:45):
for men like that Um, but that'sjust not written in my, in my
cards.
Man and and other vets need toknow, like you have your own set
of cards, man just pursueexcellence and you'll achieve it
.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
That's awesome man.
So there's a guy, he was a CAGguy.
Um, there's a guy, he was a CAGguy.
So for those who don't knowthis, that's Delta Force.
His name was Chris Van Sant andhe was on the Sean Ryan show,
which is a super popular show alot of people know, and he said
something to the effect oftrauma is trauma and it's like
(20:17):
everybody needs to deal withtrauma.
And that, to me, clicked in mymind because I think a lot of
the guys when we get out and I'mkind of trying to relate it
here to our conversation butwhen guys get out, it's like,
well, I didn't do X, y, z, solike I shouldn't complain, I'm
fine.
Well, no, I mean, you might'vehad some sort of trauma or
things that you carried with youand I'm not.
I'm not trying to sidetrack orderail the conversation, but
(20:40):
that just it reminded me.
I just can't thank guys likeyou enough, like especially
infantry guys or guys that havebeen in direct combat to be
humble enough to come out hereand say this kind of thing.
So, thank you.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, no, I appreciate it, man, it's, uh,
it's.
It's hard to talk about, man,but it needs to be said.
There's so many people outthere that can benefit from
hearing it.
And I'm not saying that from apoint of standing on some.
Hey, I did my time and now I'mdone.
I could talk down to others andhope they listen.
No, man, like I've had mentorsand friends that went through
the same thing and some of them,you know, they chose not, you
know, to choose a route otherthan service and that's okay,
(21:14):
that's their choice.
But I seen them sufferingbecause of it and I talked to
them now and you know, a coupleof them have kind of pushed me
down the right path and and saidit's okay and and I appreciate
that and that's that's what weare Like.
We're we're mentors to otherpeople and age doesn't matter.
You know, rank doesn't matter,what.
What matters is, you know, yourexperience, the things you have
been through that somebody elsehasn't right, like what is a
(21:37):
rehearsal right Is it is afundamental.
So we don't do the same thingsfor the or we don't do something
for the first time, and theconcept that I've learned in
many high speed units is like ifyou didn't do something today,
you've never done it Like it's anew thing.
So we learn from other people'sexperiences and that's just the
principles we apply to everydaylife and I've done it and it's
(21:57):
worked out.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
That's awesome.
Okay, so I'm going to kind ofgo on a different path.
It's really hard to follow upon that.
No, it's good.
So take me through what you'redoing now.
So you're, you're, you're inthe skill bridge program.
You've been doing it for what?
Six months now, is that right?
Speaker 1 (22:17):
No, sir, it's, it's 120 day program.
I started May 6th.
But I need to back up Scott forvets out there that are
interested or not even just vetsman companies.
If you own a company and you'reinterested in having a
dependable, disciplined,mission-focused and
mission-oriented soldier, comeintern at no cost to you while
(22:39):
they still get paid by thegovernment with your own tax
money to come work for you.
You need to listen to this too.
Once my retirement packet gotpromoted, man, I was like, okay,
what do I do?
I went through all of theArmy's SFL, tap stuff and it's
good, it scratches the surface.
But again, you need to pursueexcellence.
(23:00):
You need to look at other meansto figure out what you do, and
that gives you a good idea ofsome things to do.
But you're missing a large partof what people need to do to be
successful and earn a careerwhere you can leverage your
skills you learned in themilitary and the thing I'm
talking about is what we'redoing right now, what we do on
LinkedIn.
It's called networking.
That helps you again, thatexperience.
(23:20):
Somebody has to get you in theright field, the right trade,
the right industry.
So, 18 months out, right, Istart doing all this stuff.
I finished the SFL tap thing inlike a week online because I'm
nowhere near a military base, soI got like the you know,
condensed, fast paced versionand then I just started like
what I did brother is at TexasTech.
(23:40):
Before teaching, before doinganything, I would go in around
after working out.
I would go in around 738 in themorning after dropping my kids
off at school and I'd sit in myoffice and I would do every
three days a week at a minimumone hour to one and a half hours
of self-development, meaning Iwas doing something for my life
after the Army.
That included getting mymedical record straight,
(24:00):
something for my life after theArmy.
That included getting mymedical record straight.
That included finding othertransition programs out there
other than SFL TAP, whichthey're a huge, and I'll quote a
couple.
The most important and, I think, beneficial for me was it was
called 4Block, where I got tonetwork one day a week every
Wednesday for two hours wherethey would have people from all
(24:21):
different companies come talk tous X, amazon, john Deere,
builders First just a bunch ofdifferent companies that would
just interact and haverecruiters talk and show us how
to tailor resumes, you know,adjust and work on our elevator
pitches and all that stuff.
And that's where I learned aboutthe you know the Army mentioned
(24:42):
, you know, in SFL tap with theskill bridge program was, but I
still didn't, it still didn'tclick to, to how it would apply
to me and where I would do it,because I was retiring in
Lubbock, texas.
So there's not a lot of bigcompanies here Like, if you,
skill bridge is a lot easier togo with these named ones that
are already approved by themilitary.
But that doesn't don't let thatdeter you, because there's.
(25:04):
If you, let's say, your mom ordad knew somebody who owned a
business that they wanted tohire you, you can do a private
skill bridge through them.
It just takes a little bit moreof legwork, right?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I did not know that.
I appreciate you telling methat, because I thought I mean
basically every company.
Just they can all follow thesame process right To get like,
approved as a skill bridgeprovider.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Yeah, absolutely, and I'll share it with you after
this or I'll push it to you onLinkedIn.
Yeah, please.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I've had friends that have asked me, like company
friends, like yeah, we want todo this, we want to support vets
, and I don't know where topoint them to.
So if you could, yeah, we'lldefinitely share it.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, I will, man, and I have buddies that offered
me like.
I know Shane, this guy's fromSan Antonio.
He offered me a skill bridge inSan Antonio working at CM
Constructors awesome commercialconstruction company.
But yeah, I mean, he gotapproved to be a skill bridge,
which means it's recognized bythe army.
It doesn't take much stuff toget it approved.
The hardest part for a vet toget approved for the Skill
(25:59):
Bridge program is, sadly it'ssenior leaders.
Because you're so it's not thatyou're more important than the
lower enlisted.
You have a lot ofresponsibilities and people need
to understand, like you need toarticulate to the Army how your
job being unfilled becausethey're not going to fill and
send a replacement until you'reretired.
So right now my office at Tech,I still have it at Texas Tech.
(26:23):
You know there's things I stilldo for them, but I'm not
supposed to and you knownobody's going to do that.
So what I did was I made damnsure that I built predictability
in that seat so that thatoperation would function without
me there.
And that's what I did and mybrigade commander had no issues
approving me for 120-dayinternship.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
That's awesome, so okay.
So we kind of skirted around it.
So you're in the Skill Bridgeprogram right now and who is it
that you're working for?
And let's talk about whatyou're doing and how it relates
to construction and why you'reon here in the first place.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, I'm sorry man.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
No, it's my fault, you're good.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I got a thick story man.
I love it.
Yeah, it's actually magic,scott, I was hitting dead end
after dead end here in Lubbock,texas, where my kids love to go
to school, where I bought myfirst home and there was nobody
that here would sponsor me orwanted to do the rigmarole to
get me sponsored.
I interviewed other buildersand I wanted to go into
(27:19):
construction, which I learnedthrough a transition program.
You to other builders and Iwanted to go into construction,
which I learned throughtransition program because I
want to do something tangible.
Not that I'm not proud ofeverything I've ever done in the
military.
A lot of the times we work andwe run, we're like a snake
eating her own tail, but there'snothing at the end of it that
you could see.
It's nothing tangible andthat's the definition of
insanity to me.
So what I ended up doing, manis, I figured I want to do
something tangible.
I would love to drive past theschool and be like hey man, I uh
(27:41):
to my kids like Florian Maya,leah, I helped build that.
You know what I mean, um, butanywho, I got a text one day
after, after interviewing withpower home remodeling in San
Antonio good company forrenovations and I got a random
call on LinkedIn or a text fromAnthony May.
Who's the general manager atbuilders first source in Lubbock
, texas?
Who's the general manager atBuilders First Source in Lubbock
(28:02):
, texas?
They have three locations hereand what Builders First Source
is?
It's a national like nationwidedistributor for construction
materials.
This ranges from lumber, timber, simpson ties, all different
types of hardware, windows,doors, anything you need to
(28:23):
build residential and commercialstructures right.
And we have a yard where Icurrently work.
It's a lumber yard.
And then across town we have atruss facility where they
produce customized, you know, tothe architectural and
structural plans, roof trussesand floor trusses with
engineered wood.
And then we have a door millright and our door mill is
(28:48):
really the magic here.
It's crazy to me what they do.
So, bottom line, they prettymuch fabricate and build doors
for structures and for you andsomebody who's been in
construction, you know just howhard that kind of is, both on
the commercial and residentialside, because it's not like one
size fits all right and everyrough opening is different and
(29:08):
every commercial project orresidential project calls for a
certain type of door and acertain type of spec, a fire
rating, so like they build allthose things and do custom
mortising, striking for hardwareI mean they do all of it boring
for locking and securing.
So what we do, what they do, isthey end up deliver all these
construction materials to thesebuilders locally that end up
(29:33):
building these structures Um.
Do you have any questionsbefore I go on to what I do, sir
?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
No, I just it's funny because, as you're talking
about doors, like I've told guysover the years, doors, frames
and hardware are like the onetrade I hate to love it Like.
I love it because it's sointricate, but it is so freaking
difficult to try to understandall the different types of lock
sets, all the different types offrames, and then you get into
(30:00):
like the commercial side withthe electrified frames and it's
like it's extremely confusing.
So I'll share a real quickstory before we go on that.
My first project that I was ondude, I, we had a senior
superintendent and his only jobon a close to a hundred million
dollar building.
His only job because we hadlike six league guys was door
(30:22):
frames and artwork, because it'sthat difficult.
So it's just funny you bringthat up, but yeah anyway, uh,
let's, let's talk about kind ofwhat your specific role is at
builders first.
Source.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah.
So, and just to say somethingimportant for all the vets
listen, or anybody that'sthinking about hiring a vet, or
maybe thinking about the skillbridge program I have zero
construction experience otherthan doing tweaks around the
house, which is really nothingcrazy.
It's not framing, it's notpouring slab, it's nothing right
.
I have zero experience beforeBuilders First Source and
(30:53):
somehow this general manager,anthony May, who I owe a lot I'm
indebted to and hopefully I'mlike helping him out.
But, bottom line man, what I dois he.
A big market here in Lubbock,texas, is multifamily commercial
structures and what that is is,you know, you got apartment
complexes, duplexes, and they'repopping up everywhere, as you
(31:16):
can imagine, in a flat desert ofWest Texas.
So what he told me is there isa you know, for a long time
they've had just OSRs, outsidesales reps that sell all these
materials, but they're notreally operations managers to
make sure things are gettingdelivered right and when they're
ordered like you don't know.
It's not like going to thestore and being like man, I need
(31:36):
a gallon of milk and some Oreocookies for my kids, like, and I
just need to get these thingson a list right.
So you got to deliver a product.
That product needs to build thespecification correctly, but
it's got to be delivered at areal pivotal time.
And that pivotal time is likeokay, residential stuff they're,
(31:56):
they've framed, stick framed.
You know the layout of thebuilding.
They went ahead and did drywall.
Now they started texturing.
Right around that time yourdoors need to be getting
produced.
All right, your windows areprobably.
Well, they are already inserted.
Of course, we can't bedelivering doors when it's stick
framed, because those doors arejust going to sit somewhere.
Those walls got to getdrywalled and tape embedded and
(32:18):
then textured and then thosedoors need to get hung.
Now here's the deal aboutconstruction.
For anybody that has been thereand knows the pain, the
construction managers paylaborers to hang those doors.
So if they go and they pay themon site and those doors don't
show up, what happens is theycharge us, they backcharge us
and we pay for that.
And it was happening a lot here.
(32:39):
So Anthony brought me in and hewanted me to build, with my zero
experience the only experiencethat he's seen in me that I can
run a team and lead teams, takeover operations.
That means interfacing withgeneral contractors, interfacing
(33:02):
with superintendents, otherconstruction project managers,
building a relationship andsolving problems, and that is
exactly what I did.
I went to the point of frictionand what I can tell you for
anybody out there that'sinterested in hiring a vet or a
vet interested in constructionyour skills in the military will
have you learn faster than ever.
I've been doing this since Mayand I'll let Scott be.
Have you learn faster than ever.
I've been doing this since Mayand I'll let Scott be the judge,
(33:23):
but it sounds like I've learneda little bit.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Dude, I'm so glad you said that as we're sitting here
talking, I'm like 120 days youhave picked up so stinking much.
That's taking a lot of guysyears.
So kudos to you.
Like I'm really impressedbecause that means a lot.
No, thank you.
And I had a guy I was on.
It was one of my first jobsites.
I don't think I was anassistant superintendent, I
(33:47):
think I was still a PE and hetold me like look, it's going to
take a while.
Like, especially when you getinto multi hundred million
dollar buildings, like there's alot of moving parts and pieces
You're doing really well gettingin on the ground floor.
Like learning just these basicsof getting stuff to the job site
(34:08):
is so critical, especially as asuper.
It's like, uh, I had a guy Iused to work for and he would
say just, just, uh, you know,give me the stuff and then we
can control it.
Basically, like, get it thereand then we can.
We can buy up time in theschedule any day.
Without the material though,we're useless.
And so the fact that you'relearning all this stuff is
really impressive.
And so this guy on one of myfirst sites is like hey, man, if
(34:29):
you don't really have a goodgrasp on this by like year three
to five, it's probably not thebest industry for you.
But I picked it up fairly quickbut it took me a few years to
really understand the ins andouts of every single trade and
building brand new buildingsyeah, but that's really neat and
so your story should beencouraging to other people.
(34:52):
It's like, hey, there's a lowbarrier to entry in construction
and I came in with no degree.
I hung on to the guys thatwould teach me everything and I
tried to be a sponge and itsounds like you're doing just
that.
But you are able to do thatjust because of your background
and like the humility that youhave.
Yeah, it sounds like you're alifelong learner too.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, and that's one thing about me, I did go to
college late.
It took me 10 years to get abachelor's degree in criminal
justice.
A lot of good that's doing forme other than just being like I
also have a degree.
But I will tell you, duringfour block I was able, like
there's a lot of things outthere for veterans, and once I
knew I was going to go intoconstruction or like getting
interested in it, I starteddoing Coursera courses and I did
(35:38):
the construction managementcourse through Coursera, through
Columbia University, Greatcourse, applying zero things.
I learned Most of the things Ilearned it's from doing right
and being there Again like I hadno experience, Like I am doing
some laborious things sometimesbecause it saves us money
(36:02):
ultimately and it solvesproblems Like you know.
Very custom door being delivered, it's the wrong swing bringing
it back and not charging theconstruction company, like going
back out there and hanging itmyself with my team.
Obviously we don't want to do alot of that because I'm
spending time doing that.
I'm not doing what a, you know,a project manager needs to do.
But again, there's a time and aplace.
But the benefit of doing it isthat once you do it, once, like
(36:25):
you kind of know it and you'reseeing the process.
So the next time you'reordering something or you're
checking the specs, as theseguys drop off hundreds of doors,
you know you're making sureit's right and you're catching
things that are wrong beforethey're hung, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, that are wrong before they're hung.
You know, yeah, no, and I, man,I'll tell you from experience
the fact that you're doing that,um, and going out there and
physically helping your guys,cause it's it's similar to the
military, where I don't know ifI necessarily always agreed with
this view of, like officersdon't help the enlisted guys, um
, and I get it to a point whereit's like, hey, you know, let
the, let the sergeants do theirjob and kind of run the guys,
(37:02):
but I don't know if Inecessarily always agreed with
the fact that I couldn't roll upmy sleeves and help the guys.
Now, as a superintendent, I didthat, but I didn't do it to
gain the respect, but it gaineda lot of respect from the guys
and the fact that you're doingit as a PM.
There's a guy I'm thinking of atan electrical company I worked
with over the years and ifthings were just tough on the
(37:24):
job site they didn't have enoughpeople or it was like we were
trying to get over a hump man hewould come and throw on his
tools.
He was an electrician by tradeand this is the guy wearing a
button down shirt all day, buthe would come out and he would
throw his tools on and help andI as his customer, and he would
throw his tools on and help and,like I, I as his customer,
respected him more than anyother project manager, even some
(37:45):
of the foreman.
I'm like, okay, this dudedoesn't have to do this, but
he's kind of coming down fromhis ivory tower, if you will, to
come help the guys out.
Yeah, so you're really layingthe foundation and I think this
is going to pay dividends foryou in the future, not only with
clients, but with your guysyou're working with too, for
sure.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah, no, that's awesome.
And like when I fell in, sowhen I signed in May 6th like it
was kind of funny becauseAnthony, you know Anthony May,
the general manager here, hekind of welcomed me.
He's a busy man right, he runsall three locations, you know,
he has obviously directreporting requirements to our,
our area manager and he worksfor a big corporation.
So as just like like brigadelevel leaders, like these guys
(38:26):
are hard to get in a room, youknow he, he felt like he wasn't
welcoming me to the team.
But like I'm like Anthony, whatare you talking about?
You?
I got here you had a computerwaiting for me, an account.
Like for anybody that's been inthe military that had to do
that, like it takes weeks, foranybody that's been in the
military that had to do that ittakes weeks I felt like I had a
cuticle.
I wasn't expecting anything,man, it felt really good.
And then he introduced me tosomebody that I knew a little
(38:49):
bit when I first started andhe's really done a lot for me
here and his name's Chad Puryear, great guy, he's our business
analyst.
He actually works for corporatebut he's stationed here in
Lubbock, texas, our yard, and hemanages our P and L and you
know help thread a lot of ourproblems um and gets ahead of
them Um.
But you know Anthony delegatedto him to build my skill bridge
(39:11):
schedule and you know I have itright here in front of me and uh
, just so I can kind of alludeto it.
So vets that like are thinkingabout skill bridge and like
nervous that they might bemaking a mistake, what they need
to know, man, is like yourskill bridge is not just you
doing work for free, it's you tolearn and realize.
It's like a two way uminterview, right, it's to make
(39:32):
sure what you're choosing isright for you, cause at the end
of it you're probably going totake it because it might not be
right for you, right, so it'sreally cool.
So I have this schedule.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
here You're dipping your toe in the water, if you
will Like.
You're trying to figure outreally what you want to do when
you get out.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah, and what's important right is the culture.
Is this culture right for me?
Somebody who's been verystructured for 21 years?
Can I do this?
Or am I going to be like peopleare going to look at me like
I'm building foxholes outside ofthe storefront windows, you
know?
No, like, all joking aside,like these are some of the
things I was thinking about,right, and before I go into the
(40:08):
schedule, I just want to talk.
Like the day I got here,anthony May pulls me and he's
like hey, man, I you know I toldeverybody that you're coming in
explain what the skill bridgewas.
He's like I don't think I'mdoing a good job, you know
explaining it.
But but honestly, man, like Ijust kind of like people are
afraid you're going to likemarch around and order people
around and like he was veryimpressed with, kind of how
(40:30):
quickly it is.
I kind of latched onto the team, um, which which really means a
lot to me, cause I little didthey know that I was inferior to
them.
I'm talking to men and womenthat have been doing this for 20
and 30 years and I was in awe,like I felt inferior.
Like man, I can never do this,um, but the magic really goes to
(40:50):
, you know, to Chad, with thewhole operation um over this 120
days.
So week one started with ononboarding, doing new hire
paperwork, meeting the team andstuff and safety training.
Week two, really just hittinghard in operations.
I spent time at the lumber yard, the millwork, the truss plant
and just watched operationshappen.
(41:11):
I didn't really lift anyhammers, I didn't really do
anything, but I was learning thedispatch process.
I was going on deliveries,roofing and lumber deliveries
and getting exposed a little bitto the truss design.
That's literally just one weekof stuff and that's a lot coming
at you.
But I didn't know that he wasinterested in me being a project
(41:32):
manager man, I don't even know.
I thought I was going intosales or something, but the deal
is, what he wanted to do is seewhere I would excel and see
what was where he could put meand, quite frankly, I don't even
think they had a position herefor me and, like I said, he kind
of created it, which is reallyawesome.
Week three and four we went.
I spent time with thesalespeople and let me tell you
(41:54):
something man, I, one of thelead sales reps here is this guy
.
He's pretty famous in WestTexas.
He used to be a builder.
His name's Reagan Reed.
He's awesome, he's a greathuman.
I shadowed him for two weeks,man.
And this guy runs and guns.
He spends a lot of times at thejob sites.
So his customers, I learned,send him the architectural plans
that he goes over and creates a.
(42:14):
He does a takeoff, creates alist of everything they need to
build that house, bids it like,quotes it pretty much, and then
they go with it and anythingexcess which there's not much,
because he's so dang good, heschedules to get pulled off and
gives the credit back.
So that's what makes BuildersFirst Store so freaking great.
We have a team that if you're abuilder, you just give them your
architectural plans right, andeach sales rep has a different
(42:38):
number of builders here, allwell-known ones in Lubbock, and
they do.
They literally look over yourplans.
They help value, engineer somethings and get you the right
amount of material.
But the best thing there islike and you know this, Scott,
if you're looking at plans andyou're looking at the framing,
okay, a California corner is aCalifornia corner, but there's
so much things you could dodifferently and it changes the
(43:03):
way you you utilize material.
So, like, each sales rep learnsthe way each builder builds so
they can, when these guys dotakeoff and the software is
telling them they need you knowthis many LVLs.
They know that builder doesn'tuse much LVLs and they use two
by six, triples and stuff likethat in their framing so they're
able to personalize it to thebuilder to make sure it's
accurate.
That's where things started toclick for me and that's where I
(43:26):
learned like dude.
I like this side of things, Ilike the field work, I like
being in here and understandingthe construction process, the
stages of construction, allright.
So in week five of my internship, that's really where I had my
exposure to multifamily andcommercial department.
A lot of problems going on andnothing we were doing wrong.
(43:49):
It's just we had sales repsreally running operations, which
those are two different things.
So we have three multifamilystructures going up with two
different construction companies.
We got the Erskine Apartments,which is a five-building
commercial residentialconstruction project.
It's a Jason Nassaloni build.
And then we have Citadel, whichis a big company.
(44:11):
Here they have an apartmentcomplex going up called the
Hartley Apartments and then theyhave Slide North, which is just
they're really in phase two ofthe build.
A lot of their buildings arealready being leased and now
they're adding three morebuildings.
So that's what I went into Alot of problems with things
(44:32):
spec-wise and a lot of misseddelivery times because of the
sheer numbers our door millneeded to produce, because we
were pretty much messing up spanof control and what an
individual person'sresponsibilities and number of
things they have to do no faultto anybody other than process.
And that's where I kind offocused my efforts and things
(44:54):
are up and running now, real,real, real well.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Very good man.
I'm just so excited, I'm reallyhappy for you because this
program I feel like and this isjust my take you probably could
have gone anywhere and just beensuccessful because of your
mannerisms and the way you are,and I'm so happy that you found
success in this and shout out toBuilders First, source and all
(45:18):
the guys out there and Anthonyand the guys that you're talking
about.
I'm just thank you to thoseguys for providing you this
opportunity and and reallyfostering that growth, because I
think you know this is just methinking.
I'm sure there's companies outthere that kind of go okay,
skill bridge is just some freelabor and probably don't pour
into people I'm not saying it'severybody, but I have to believe
(45:39):
there's companies out therethat are kind of taking
advantage of the program.
But to hear that they're doingsuch an awesome job really just
kind of makes my heart happy andthat's I'm so stoked for you,
man.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yeah, man, it's really cool.
And just to like to show youhow level playing field it was
about, about two weeks into thethe skill bridge, you know,
anthony pulled me in his office.
He's like hey, man, we're allpart of the West Texas Home
Builders Association here, whichis really cool.
They're currently building ahero home for a vet for free.
(46:10):
Like building him a home.
I'm sure I think he lost hishouse in a tornado or something
and relocated here to Lubbock.
But all these builders cometogether and donate material and
things and and they're building.
You know we're building amaterial, so they do a lot of
stuff.
So he asked me to come to aluncheon that we were hosting
and, uh, he asked me to speak.
He said he's not much of aspeaker, he's gonna open up some
(46:32):
things and introduce it, and ifI would speak, and I was like
what, and this is to all themajor builders in lubbock and
and I and I was like I was alittle nervous Like what, what
do I have?
But what he wanted to do is hewanted to share.
He wanted me to share um aboutthe skill bridge program and
what it is, and I made a QR codeso people can scan and learn
about it.
Um, and how I started thatintroduction is I was like, what
(46:55):
about a cool video?
Like in the army we always showlike a high speed motivated
video in the beginning.
So I had a video of me jumpingout of a C-130 after pushing the
F-47.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Zodiac out.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
So he introduces me and the video starts with the
back of my head, um, jumpingwith scuba gear on um out the
back of a C-130, after pushingan F-470 Zodiac boat and fully
inflated with a, an engine, youknow, strapped down to the
inside out the plane, um, andafter it stopped everybody kind
of looked at me and I was like,yeah, tough day in the office
(47:28):
and everyone started laughing.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Oh my gosh, that's good for you, man.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
And I don't want to cover much about that talk,
cause it's only about fiveminutes, cause, like these
people are very busy and theyhad a guest speaker and I wasn't
it and I didn't want to likeencroach on their time.
But I did say you know a lot ofus and we've heard it, that's.
I'm sure you heard Scott andall of you out there.
Like you've heard somebody saythank you for your service, but
nothing says thank you for yourservice.
(47:56):
Better than hosting a vet for aall paid internship at your
company to see if you can assistone veteran transition into
civilian life.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Yeah, well, said man, that's awesome.
Yeah, and it's such, you know,like I've said earlier and I
keep saying it's, I'm so stokedfor the vets of today that have
this program.
I'm like, I'm low key jealousbecause I'm like man, where was
this when I was in?
But it's, it's awesome thatsomebody finally recognized,
(48:27):
because we weren't.
Uh, some of us found our way.
You know, I became successfulafter, but so many other people
didn't.
And it's not I'm not sayingit's all on like the government
or the industry Um, you know,the impetus is on the guy or
girl to really take the firststep, but a lot of us were going
, okay, well, what is that firststep?
(48:48):
And so kudos to this wholeprogram being started and I know
it's changed a little bit.
Um, but you're, you know you'renot the first success story
I've talked to and it's, it'sawesome.
Um, I personally connected a guy.
He was, um, I go to thismonthly networking event in
Dallas.
That's, uh, half vets, halfindustry, like random, not just
(49:09):
construction but other industryleaders, and he hosted, uh, I
don't know, maybe half a dozenor more guys that were in the
skill bridge program and one guycame up to me and said, hey, I
want to be an electrician.
I said, well, that's perfect.
Here, go talk to this guy.
He's a friend of mine, he runsan electrical company and he is
I believe he's still there as anelectrician.
Um, but he wouldn't have hadthat opportunity to even like go
(49:32):
ask somebody without skillbridge.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah, no, 100% man, I don't know.
I know a lot of vets and I willtell you a lot of people.
They just don't think but startnetworking.
I'm telling you right now thatit helps, and then you'll
(50:01):
connect to a bunch of people andlearn about their trade and
you'll be able to make adecision.
The decision was made for me andthe hugest thing there was I
learned what I wanted to do, butI didn't just be like, oh, I
want to do this and I expect askill bridge to be handed to me.
I made the case for myself.
(50:21):
Right, there's going to bestringents, because you just
can't let everyone go, but ifyou do the groundwork to get in,
um, there's ways to do it Now.
For example, like I told them,like I'm going to be doing this
in Lubbock, texas, where I'mstationed as well.
So if anything happens, I can.
If you need me on a weekend togo you know safety of flat range
Dude I'll throw my fatigues onand go out there with these
college kids and get themqualified.
Like I'm still a soldier, youknow Um, but if you plan on
(50:45):
trying to do and some people dorelocating and doing a skill
bridge 50 miles away from whereyou're stationed, like it's a
leave form and the request goesto the first general in the
chain of command.
So do your research.
If you want it, you can obtainit.
You got to do the research.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
So do your research.
If you want it, you can obtainit.
You got to do the research.
Talk to your, you know, true,but let's say you started and
like you just weren't approved,they're like Nope, you're not
going to do it.
What do you think you wouldhave done when you get to that?
You know, last terminal leave,last month, terminal leave, like
what was your plan?
(51:31):
Going and getting out, Causethere's, there's people that are
in that position now and maybethey did get turned down.
What would you have done?
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Man, honestly, that's .
That is a difficult question.
Um, I one thing wouldn't startsaying life ain't on, life is
unfair, because guess what?
It is unfair and once yourecognize that, you'll realize
that you'll be successful,because it's never going to be
fair.
Um, I thought mine was going toget.
I already had a plan B, right,because I thought I was going to
get um kind of not, I don'twant to say fraggled, not many
people know that.
(52:02):
I mean, I thought they weren'tgoing to prove my skill bridge,
right, because I did some thingsto get, you know, a replacement
, not a replacement, butsomebody could fill my tracks,
because in my office I had onemore green suitor, another army
sergeant first class who PCS,before me and I would be leaving
my Lieutenant Colonel to runour program with me.
Another green suitor, who'sNational Guard or our Active
(52:26):
Guard, and then I'd try to getanother Sergeant First Class.
Sadly, we got a major who didsomething unethical and got
removed from the seat very earlyon in college, you can imagine.
And then we got a SergeantFirst Class who, right before he
reported, he got a DUI so thathe couldn't teach.
So really I was leaving.
And this is where I felt guilty, right, because I'm like man,
(52:47):
I'm about to leave my partner,my ranger buddy, and that's Tom
Stevenson, great Lieutenant,colonel man who's still at Tech,
and I love him.
But I felt guilty and I toldTom like I'm going to cancel
this whole thing.
But he said no man, like he'slike you paid your way, you did
these things.
You've set this program up forsuccess.
Just look at the timeline.
Maybe you agree.
(53:08):
Okay, they want to prove 120.
Do 90.
And then I actually startedreaching out and I found an NCO
that I served with in 6th RangerTraining Battalion, who from
Lubbock, who wanted to cometeach here.
So I got him the report early.
He just got here.
So now school started and he'shere.
So there's things you can do.
But my plan B to answer yourquestion was to continue the
(53:29):
same process networking, doingCoursera courses to get me some
level of experience and reap thearmy for all the educational
benefits for transitioning thatI could get paid for to include
the project manager managementprofessional certificate, um,
certified associate in projectmanagement.
Um, if you're a tech nerd,nothing against you.
(53:50):
I'm just not that kind of guy.
Like um, you can go get why,like night school, like online
or whatever your securitycertificates, um, which I
thought about too.
And to to write code, likeonline, or whatever your
security certificates, which Ithought about too and to write
code.
There's so much you can do.
And then, once you hit terminalleave, then you'll have a direct
higher position while you'restill getting paid in the army.
That's what I would do.
(54:11):
You got to feed your family,you got to pay your bills that's
first, but you also have aresponsibility to the contract
you sign faithfully andhonorably first, but you also
have a responsibility to thecontract you signed faithfully
and honorably.
And that was my plan, scott tojust keep networking, keep
talking to people.
The process would be the same.
The only difference is Iwouldn't be here getting all
this hands-on experience man.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
I love it, dude, I've really enjoyed this.
I know this we kind of ranlonger than most of my
interviews, but that wassomewhat intentional, just
because you're in a reallyspecial position.
Um, I got a quick couple ofrapid fire things for you.
Um sure what?
What would you be?
What would you consider yourgo-to tool on the job site?
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Oh, my go-to tool is my cell phone, okay.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Okay, that's good, all right.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
I'll give multiple.
The second one I would say is atape measure.
You wouldn't believe how manyconstruction managers and people
just don't have it on them andneed it.
I walk buildings every day ofmy life and if you look at my
LinkedIn and I'm sure Scott willshare it and you could follow
my if you want, if you'reinterested in your event, look
(55:17):
at my LinkedIn.
I post every couple weeks or soabout how the skill bridge was
going.
I post pictures from job sites.
You could see me getting alittle bit you know, a little
bit hairy around my face, butyou could watch the experience
and the magic in the making.
But I would walk job sites,measure rough openings and then
any problems I had I would takeit to the superintendent and be
(55:38):
like, hey, man, I think theserough openings were framed wrong
, or the wall depth becauseyou're using this drywall and a
2x6.
Like, these doors that are onthe plans aren't right.
Right, and it would solveproblems up front and what that
does for you.
That little tape measure ledinto building trust, right, and
then you just end up solvingproblems.
(55:58):
There's so many that are solvedby that tape measure.
It is insane, and there's nottwo alike.
Speaker 2 (56:03):
Right, and I will say it's also, uh, the one tool
I've gotten stolen more than any.
For sure, I can't tell you howmany dozens of of tape measures
I've had to buy over the years,but, um, okay, Coffee or energy
drink.
Coffee all day Blacker thannight Chewy Like that bad, yeah,
(56:24):
yeah.
You don't want to be lickingyour lips and burping three
hours later and taste it.
Last rapid fire, what have youfound to be?
Oh man, I don't know if I wouldask you this, but what's the
hardest trade to work with?
Oh man, you're going to getyourself in in trouble.
You don't have to answer, butyou're gonna get yourself in
trouble.
Everybody razzes theelectricians, and some of my
(56:46):
best friends are electric.
Yeah, everybody razzes them,but they are some of the hardest
working dudes they are so theyknow they're good.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
That's the hard part quick story on the electrician,
and it's two in the same week atthis huge apartment complex.
We got going in but I'moverseeing 200 doors getting
dropped at this site.
And you know the way I do it is.
I break it down by line item,by rough opening.
That's something I instilled inthem and did so.
(57:16):
Ultimately, what was happeningis they would take doors and
they were putting them in therough openings and they were
running out of the right hand orthe left hand, whatever they
needed for the door.
So I was like that's a problem.
Now we're overproducing, whichcosts money, because customer
goodwill is a real thing inconstruction when you mess
something up.
So you got to like I wouldsituate, I'd have my team
situate the doors as I inventoryand check spec by rough opening
, by line item.
(57:37):
Um, and that allowed and Iexplained it to all the
construction managers so theyknew exactly what they were
getting and where every doorwent.
And then those problems stopped.
Um, but we had an electricianwhen we were delivering.
He's like no, you can't putthese here.
And he started telling my guysyou know my, just my delivery
guys to move them, which theseare exterior doors and they're
pretty heavy, um, some with somewith glass inserts, and I was
(58:00):
like hold on, man, like I don'twant to cause you trouble, I
know you got a job to do, butyou know, let's talk to the
project manager who came inthere and he's just very Rico
Suave was like no man, you weresupposed to be here four hours
ago.
Anyway, these doors are stayinghere.
You work around them.
And then, secondly to that, Iwas checking the handings on
these doors that we were aboutto build and produce for them
and I noticed that theelectrical box going into the
(58:22):
back door was on the left side,but the plan was specced for a
left-hand door.
Now, if you're a human and youimagine going into your house
opening the door from the rightside of the jam and the light
switch being on the left side,you'd have to open the door all
the way and jump on the backsidethat, flip the light on.
That's a no go man.
Um, so like we brought that upand he had to run some wires and
(58:45):
move some electrical terminalstuff.
But yeah, they just make thingsdifficult and they got a really
specific job to do and and,quite frankly, like your wall is
only so big and has so manythings in it.
So they you know they have adifficult job and it makes other
people's lives much moredifficult.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
Yeah, and I will say I have been fortunate enough to
work with a lot of really goodelectricians.
Like the last job I was on andI talked about this guy, I think
, in my solo episode that he waslike late 20s stellar
electrician working his butt off.
Guys are twice his age and hewas just guys on his crew were
(59:22):
twice his age and he was justsuch a good leader and it
encouraged me like, hey look,the industry is in good hands
with these younger guys that arecoming up, but they've got a
tough job, like you said, butthey can make or break your site
.
But I've been fortunate to workwith a lot of really good
electricians and it's man, it'sit's so much like the military
where every branch teases eachother.
(59:44):
It's the same on the job site,like if you got a good set, a
sense of humor I'm a carpenterby trade and of course the guys
are like, oh, where's your nailpolish?
And you know we tease eachother and it's like you have a
good time and it's the samething like you have a good time
and it's the same thing, youknow, in the service and that's
why I think it's such a goodtransition.
So, all that said, man, I'mgoing to.
I'm going to wrap up here, carl.
(01:00:05):
Thanks again, man.
I mean this is.
I've been looking forward totalking to you.
I'm glad we finally jumped onthis, and if there's any way
that I can help you, please byall means reach out, carl and I.
(01:00:25):
I I I'm not too far from you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
I mean, you're kind of in the middle of nowhere in
Lubbock, uh, but if you everfind yourself out in Dallas,
dude, I mean, there is a meal atour home for you any day,
absolutely well expect me, man.
I like the Rangers, I like theCowboys.
It's been 30 years since we wona championship, so let's go.
Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Oh man, I am not a Cowboys fan.
I just talked about that on thelast episode with the guy I
grew up 10 minutes fromCincinnati Ohio, so I'm a
Bengals fan and in fact the nextseason for the Rangers their
opener is against the CincinnatiReds, so you can believe I'm
going to be there.
I'm stoked.
Yeah, man, yes, sir, that'sawesome hey last thing If people
(01:00:54):
want to get a hold of you,what's the best way to do so?
Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
The best way to get a hold of me, I'll just plug my
email address.
I will never turn down an emailfrom a vet or anybody.
I get emails from people thatI've served with 15, 16 years
ago.
I don't have social media otherthan LinkedIn.
I'm not a fan of everybody'spolitical opinion, quite frankly
, so for my mental health I donot have a link, or I don't have
a Facebook or you know anythingelse like that.
Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
What is the one?
Everyone likes Tickertalk, andI don't.
I don't have that stuff.
Tickertalk, yeah, you're likeaging yourself.
You sound like a 60 year oldman.
Yeah, no, I'm sorry, but I have.
I do have a.
Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
LinkedIn, carl Muller it's Carl with a K,
k-a-r-l-m-u-l-l-e-r.
You'll see a good picture of meon there.
Also, you can hit me up at carlK-A-R-L.
Dot Muller, m-u-l-l-e-r atBLDRcom.
I also just want to kind of endwith look, always Rangers lead
(01:01:56):
the way, veterans.
In construction, you can do thesame thing, or any trade you're
interested in.
You know, and in construction,what I've learned and what I
really love about is we don'tjust build projects right, we
need to build teams, communitiesand a future worth fighting for
, just on a differentbattlefield.
Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Amen, man.
What a way to close it.
I appreciate you, dude.
Yeah, buddy Thank you forhaving me.
Yes, sir, absolutely.
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