August 4, 2024 • 44 mins
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What happens when a West Point graduate transitions from military life to a career in commercial real estate? Join us as Scott Friend sits down with Jack Sipes, a former client and decorated veteran, to discuss his incredible journey. From growing up in Dayton, Ohio, shaped by his father's World War II service, to enduring the rigorous challenges of ranger school and a deployment to Korea, Jack's story is one of resilience and leadership. He shares poignant and humorous memories, including the tense moments during the 1988 Olympics and his unexpected deployment to the Gulf War.
In our conversation, Jack delves into the intricacies of his military service, revealing the lessons he learned and how they shaped his post-military career. We explore his transition from the artillery unit in the Gulf War to the corporate corridors of Archstone in the real estate sector. Jack candidly discusses the challenges veterans face when leaving the military, particularly in high-stress industries like construction and real estate. His story underscores the importance of community, mentorship, and maintaining connections with fellow veterans to navigate the often isolating journey of civilian life.
As Jack approaches the twilight of his distinguished career, he reflects on his passion for mentorship and his commitment to supporting other veterans in their professional journeys. He offers invaluable advice for those considering a career shift and emphasizes the significance of leaving a legacy. Whether you're a veteran, a professional in the construction industry, or simply someone seeking inspiration, Jack Sipes' experiences provide a rich tap
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I think the leadership of people and how to
connect with people and how toinfluence others to accomplish
things is largely from my family.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
This is the Construction Veteran Podcast,
connecting and celebratingveterans in construction.
Now here's your host, scottFriend.
Welcome back to theConstruction Veteran.
I'm Scott Friend.
I'm excited to bring to youguys Jack Sipes, a former client
of mine, a West Point grad,with an amazing story of how he
(00:38):
came up in commercial realestate.
Let's dig into it.
Let's dig into it, hey.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Jack, how are you, sir Scott, I'm fantastic.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
How about yourself?
I'm good.
It's good to talk to you again.
It's been a few years now.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
It has been a little while.
You know, time flies and thingschange.
It's been an odd time anyway,with you, anyway with the kind
of post-COVID and we met eachother post-COVID.
But it's just been a differentsort of last three, four years
than any other time of my career.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yes, sir, yeah, so Jack and I know each other.
He was a former client of minewith a former employer and I got
to say that you were up therewith one of the top three
customers I've worked with.
Uh, jack is in our industry aswell.
We'll go into a little bit ofthat and it's always a pleasure
having somebody that understandsthe struggles, uh, in the
(01:35):
construction industry when itcomes to material or delivering
a project exactly how peoplewant it.
Um, so that was reallyrefreshing, jack.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Thanks, it was the good and bad.
The bad is that we aredevelopers, we develop
apartments and we do a lot ofour own design work.
We've done a lot of probably20,000 units now at this point
that we've done, and so we thinkwe know a lot too.
So that's good and bad.
It's good we have a chance up,but it's bad that we try to tell
you what to do sometimes.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, yeah, and it's, I think, a good thing too.
If you have a bad contractoryou're working with.
You know there are tricks,right.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Right, that's very true.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Very cool.
So, jack, let's talk about yourservice background.
You have a really cool story.
I want to talk about whereyou're from and what got you
into the service, and yourpathway through West Point.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Right, well, I'm one of 10 kids I grew up in Dayton
Ohio.
My dad, the story was heenlisted on December 8th 1941.
So he and his buddies were outplaying, were out bowling, and
they got the word that the PearlHarbor was bombed, and so they
stayed out all night and thenenlisted the next day.
Now just a quick aside.
(02:47):
So, um, so I tried to get hisservice records for a long time.
He's he passed away in uh, in2001.
I tried to get a service recordsfor a long time and and uh, if
you didn't know, most, most ofthe service records from the
seventies and earlier werestored in a warehouse in St
Louis and caught fire and sothey were destroyed, or at least
(03:07):
you know, in a spot wherepeople couldn't figure it out
anymore.
So I would, every few years,would ask to try to get his
records, and finally they'vedigitized most of it, and when
they digitized it it's all sortof sortable now.
So I was able to get hisrecords and so that's really
cool because I could see wherehe was and what unit he was in
and what he did.
But it did put the myth he didnot enlist on December 8, 1941.
(03:31):
He enlisted like January of 1942.
So he still served and he wasan artilleryman which influenced
me and I was a gun sergeant andhad a 105 howitzer all through
and had a 105 howitzer allthrough kind of battle.
He landed about 30 days afterD-Day and fought up through the
Ardennes into Germany and thesurrender.
(03:51):
So I'd say I have some militaryinfluence, although not really.
He got out in, you know, late45.
But I went to West Point.
I was really good in school, Iwas a good athlete and I was
involved in a lot of leadershipthings and those are kind of the
three legs to the stool thatWest Point's looking for in
candidates and so my interestaligned with West Point's what
(04:15):
they were looking for.
So I went to West Point andclearly, if most people know,
but when you graduate you're acommissioner and officer officer
and then you have a six-yearcommitment afterwards and so it
kind of set me on the path to mytime in the military.
This would have been I went toWest Point in 83 to 87 and then
(04:36):
graduated in 87, went toairborne school, went to
artillery basic, officer basic,then went to ranger school and
went to Korea for my first year.
So I had a real, that first, uh, the first about year and a
half uh, post-graduation, I Iwas just a whirlwind of of going
places and doing, uh, you know,exciting things that you only
dream about.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, that's awesome man.
It was go, go, go for you.
Then, right after school,airborne ranger school.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
We hear a lot of the horror stories of ranger school.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Did you make it through in one pass?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I did, I uh, you know , and uh yeah, it's.
I think um, about a third, Ithink, of my class made it
through on the on on straightwithout having to recycle
anything, but just over 50% ofthe people that started ended up
graduating.
So, um, yeah, I was, I was awinter ranger too and it was, uh
, it was pretty cold.
I, I'd I've been cold, but uh,you know, being really really
(05:30):
cold and really really wet wasuh, was you know something?
I, yeah, I think my, mytoughest spot was in uh, in
florida, we, we walked for acouple days in the rain and you
know it was in the 40s and 50sout, and uh, had a ranger buddy
that made me a cup of coffee andbasically saved me because I
was, I was fading fast yeah, wet, tired, cold and hungry yeah
(05:52):
geez.
Well, and so you were artillery,you said correct yeah, so I, I
was a, an artillery officer anduh started off in in korea and
uh as a fire support officer fora tank company.
So you know, very interesting.
I thought of all the places Iwould go that might, you know,
have some sort of a real.
This is, you know, late 80sagain, and we hadn't fought as a
(06:13):
country since.
I mean, we, you know there wasGrenada in 83, but we hadn't
really fought as a country sinceVietnam and there weren't
really any prospects of fightingagain.
You know, my mom used to tellme how scared she was I was
going to go to war.
And I'm like mom, unless, youknow, unless the Soviets
(06:33):
attacked the full gap in GermanyI'm not, I'm not going to war,
and you know.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And so the world the world changes A lot of your time
in.
Was it mostly training then, ordid you guys do um like a
training deployment, or how didthat go, since we were in
peacetime in korea?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
now we have.
You know, there's a real warmission there.
So we, you know we were, wewould do alerts and go to our
battle positions and uh, youknow, I was about 10 miles from
the from the north korea borderand and, uh, it was a real world
mission and we had live ammo.
That that we would, you know,take, take war ammo with us
whenever we go, go to the field,just in case.
(07:07):
And the kind of otherinteresting thing is I was there
for the Olympics in 1988.
So about the first half of theOlympics we were on sort of
alert because there was somespeculation that North Korea
would do something to just tryto disrupt the Olympics.
But in the second half, when itwas clear that wasn't going to
happen, I got to go down andwent to probably 10 different
(07:29):
events.
I just went to track andbasketball and boxing and
wrestling and gymnastics.
It was a really neat, reallygood experience.
Oh man, that's the kind ofthings in the military that you
would have, those opportunitiesto do, sort of odd things that
you never think you'd ever do,and then you get to do them.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah.
So, other than the Olympics,did you ever have any time where
you thought, okay, this isgoing to happen, north Korea's
going to take action?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
No, I almost burned down South Korea, though.
Oh no, I was an evaluator, kindof observer controller for
another battalion's evaluation,and so I would go around and
throw artillery simulators tosimulate artillery and they
would have to react to it.
So I'd get a thing to go to thetop of this hill and do
(08:22):
artillery.
We can't take the Humvee upthere.
So I end up climbing up aboutthe last 50 yards straight to
the top of this hill and doartillery.
So we can't take the Humvee upthere.
So I end up climbing up aboutthe last 50 yards straight up
the side of this mountain.
So I get to the top and I'mjust like, do I really?
So I go ahead and throw one,and it's in the summer and it's
really really dry there, so it'smonsoonal, but then it's dry,
it's dry before and after,anyway.
(08:42):
So I monsoonal, but then it's,it's dry, it's dry before and
after, anyway.
So I throw this artillerysimulator in the grass top of
the hill and it catches on fireand it's spreading fast and my
driver's down, you know, 50yards away, and I'm up on top of
this hill thinking, you know,I'm I'm second lieutenant of the
army, I'm gonna burn down koreaand it's good.
You know what a, what a, youknow flame out of a career.
But uh, you know.
So I'm up there stamping like amadman.
(09:04):
I was able to stamp it all out.
But uh, I come down, I'm justblack from soot.
I'm sweating my driver's likewhat's up?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I'm like nothing I would have enjoyed hearing the
battalion commanders uh afteraction report on that one yeah,
it was hilarious for me.
Oh, that's awesome, so you didyour.
So did you just do the six in?
Did you do more than that?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
No, I was in Korea for a year.
Then I went to Fort Hood andthat's kind of where my mom's
like, oh, you're going to go towar.
I'm like, mom, we're not goingto war.
So we'd stack.
And then coming up on afour-day weekend that's another
kind of good thing about themilitary Three-day weekends
always became four-day weekendsand so coming up on a four-day
weekend I'm staying, I have my.
(09:50):
I was the battalion maintenanceofficer for a self-propelled
artillery battalion and so Ihave my team there because we're
getting ready to.
We're going to go to theNational Training Center in a
couple months and so we weredropping at the time to to in
the supply system.
You had to hand, write outthese cards to drop requisitions
for stuff.
So we were requisitioning allof our stuff for the national
(10:11):
training center and so we wereuh, so everybody else uh took
off for a four day, you know ona Friday at noon for a four day
weekend, and um, and so we'rethere in the afternoon and my
boss calls me up and says, hey,come, come up to the battalion
headquarters.
So I get up there and he saidthe colonel just got called in,
he goes.
I think we're going to getalerted to deploy because of
this Kuwait stuff, I'm like,really, so that's shocking.
(10:35):
So I went back and I'm like,well, if we're going to go, I'm
going to need some ports.
So we dropped, all you know athousand, some odd requisitions
for parts and things and we wereahead of everybody.
So you know, so that was mysort of claim to fame in the
first Gulf War was, we werestocked and no one else was.
(10:55):
Because I was, you know, in thefirst Cav division, I was
basically the first guy to droprequisitions for parts and
things because I was gettingready for NTC so fortuitous.
Requisitions for parts andthings because I was getting
ready for NTC, so fortuitous.
But yeah, so we trained up andwent to the first Gulf War and I
got there in mid-September andat the time, clearly, what
happened post 9-11 between Iraqand Afghanistan?
(11:16):
There was a much differentlevel of fighting war over a lot
of years and intense fighting,but at the time years and and,
uh, you know, intense fighting,but at the time there wasn't.
And so when we got there, youknow, we were essentially there
was 30 or 40 Iraqi divisions andthere was, I think, two of us
on the ground us and the uh, the101st, and so we were basically
(11:36):
, you know, supposed to justkind of uh, die in place, uh,
sort of delay them as much aspossible if they were, if they
were to attack.
So you know, as it turns out,we are the best trained and best
equipped military in the world.
You know, beat the Iraqis, butin September that wasn't so
obvious and it wasn't so clear,and so there was some months of
(11:58):
real apprehension, and then younever know how you're going to
react when you go to war.
And so I'm proud of what myteam and I did, and mostly
that's down to training and uhand discipline and what you do
in the military, which is, youknow, you you're clear about
what what uh the objective isand clear about you know how to
train for it, and then you trainand then, when it comes time to
(12:19):
execute it's you do it, andthose are super lessons you know
, that I've used throughout therest of my career as well.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, so uh, let me back up to West Point.
What did you study there?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
My, my major is engineering, management, uh, and
so you know, so a mix ofengineering classes and, uh and
management, so kind of hard andsoft yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
So do you think it was your dad's time of service
that it really launched you intowanting to go artillery instead
of going to an engineer unit?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
No, I think when we, the people that were going
artillery, it was a very peopleoriented and I liked a lot of
people that were doing it, andwhen we did our summer trainings
, the artillery seemed like apretty motivated kind of squared
away group, and so I think itwas more, you know, one of the
(13:10):
combat arms and I wanted to goto something where you know I
like the people that I was withboth, both my peers and and my
soldiers.
But I think that had somethingto do with it too.
It was kind of neat.
I mean, my dad was a gun chieffor three years in World War II,
and so it was a neat parallel.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, so let's go back.
So you did your deployment tothe Gulf War.
You finished up your time.
What did you first off, I guesswhat made you decide to get out
, and what were you looking atdoing when, when you got out of
the service?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
So uh came back from the Gulf war, went to the
artillery advanced course, wentto Fort Ord, california, and uh
was the seventh ID, which was alight and uh, and it liked what
I was doing.
I got married right around thesame time and was, you know,
deployed a lot.
The 7ID was part of the RapidDeployment Force and so we
(14:09):
deployed a few times differentplaces and so I was gone a lot.
Plus, there was, you know, thisis 1992, 93.
And there was, you know, kindof the peace dividend.
Clinton was elected, there was,the military was downsizing,
they were paying people to getout.
You know, kind of the, thepiece of it.
And Clinton was elected therewas, the military was downsizing
, they were paying people to getout, you know, and we and I
just fought a war that lookedlike there might not be
(14:31):
something else for 20 years, andso I think a lot of things, I
think there was some societalsort of you know like, what are
you going to do that?
You've done that, um, a littlebit.
There was the, the military wasdownsizing.
It didn't look like the missionwas going to be all that
interesting.
It was pretty predictable, andI had a young family, and so I
would say that I loved the army,but that was, you know, sort of
(14:52):
a senior captain, not quite amajor, and there were some
things I didn't like and so itwas seems, you know, it was a.
It was a difficult decision forme.
A lot of people, I think,jumped at the chance, but it was
a difficult decision for me.
A lot of people, I think,jumped at the chance, but it was
really difficult for me becauseI love the Army, but anyway.
So when you get out, I wentthrough a recruiter that
specializes in bringing juniorofficers to the corporate
(15:13):
America and generally there'stwo tracks that you come out in.
One is, at least at the time itwas kind of a technical sales,
so medical sales orpharmaceutical sales or chemical
sales or sort of manufacturingsupervision.
So I interviewed and thenumbers aren't exact but they're
kind of close I interviewedprobably eight sales jobs and
(15:34):
eight supervisory jobs and onereal estate job, and so it was
just so different thaneverything else.
It was just so different thaneverything else, um, and it was
with a company called Archstonewhich was, uh, uh, an apartment
developer or part of the uh realestate investment trust, public
(15:54):
public real estate company, anduh, and so one of the guys that
that was running one of thegroups there had hired
militaries before and so theywere trying to do that again.
They had a pirate about eightof us over two years.
But anyway, it was so differentand kind of in a career when
everyone's doing the same thingand there's a chance to do
something different, I jumped tosomething different and so I
didn't really know anythingabout it.
I really, beyond it being justdifferent than what everybody
(16:15):
else was doing, and I like thepeople that I talk to, I think
you know ultimately a lot of themoves I I make, I think, in my
life, have been toward a planI've always sort of had.
You know I want, I want to adirection.
I wanted to go in a, in acareer path I wanted to go.
But but I also, you know youspent so much time at work that
if you don't like and respectthe people you're with, it's
really it's not a verysatisfying life.
(16:38):
So so I liked and respected thepeople that I interviewed with
there and talked to and itlooked like a really interesting
sort of career path.
So I so I joined Archstone as amanagement trainee in their, in
their property management.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah Well, let me say , when you made that decision
for your family, I think that'salways the right thing to do.
For sure and I know a lot ofpeople are torn about that they
have that, that love for country, and one for sure.
So good on you, jack Right.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Right, right.
So it turned out, though youknow I mean what uh in 2001,
after, uh, after nine 11, Ireally, uh, you know, I, I I had
regrets.
A lot of people that I that Iwent to school with and were, uh
, still in the military at thetime and they would have been,
(17:29):
uh, majors time they were goingto war and it was not a, you
know, gulf War, I that you knowthat was kind of done, you know,
in and out in nine months, thiswas, it was real and it was,
you know, sort of an existentialthreat for country, and I
really it was sleepless nightssometimes, just you know, sort
of regretting, maybe that I didthe wrong thing not being there,
you know, to go into to war inAfghanistan or Iraq, back in the
Gulf with the uh war on terror.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, no, I completely understand that.
So let me, let me ask this sowe talked about the transition
piece that kind of got you intothat world, so you, you didn't
really have real estate on themind getting out.
It was just kind of aconnection that you made.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
It was.
You know it was uh, and really,when it comes down to it, and I
think people that spend sometime in the military, they don't
really know what the world does, especially if you spend a lot
of time in the military.
I mean, you kind of know, butyou kind of don't too, and so,
uh, you know, I wasn't sureexactly how everything all
worked.
And you know, I'd gone straightfrom, you know, high school to
West Point, which was military,and then into the Army, and so I
(18:28):
didn't really know howeverything worked.
And so, you know, I think a lotof people just sort of stumble
into careers, and I stumbledinto this one and really, if
there was anything about it, itwas that it was so different
than what everyone else wasdoing.
You know, all the other sort ofjunior officers were getting
out it was so different thanwhat everyone else was doing.
You know, all the other sort ofjunior officers were getting out
.
We're going to Johnson andJohnson and selling surgical
tools or Procter and Gamble andselling soap, and so it was just
(18:49):
really so different.
You know, going to apartmentmanagement and apartment
development.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, so I think this really speaks to the uh, the
value of networking andrelationships, for sure.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Some things I just you just kind of fall into and
then you're, you know you'regood at them.
I think you know, I thinkthat's the see.
People say, follow yourpassions.
But I think it's really kind offind something you're good at
and you can get paid at andyou'll probably, it'll probably
be a passion, but anyway, I kindof fell into it and I people in
property management either loveit or hate it because it's.
it can be a real grind and I,you know, I sort of I did pretty
(19:22):
well with the grind, yeah, sothat kind of segues into my next
question.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
So you're not necessarily on the field side of
the industry.
Let's talk about what you donow.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I have been in you know sort of executive levels of
leadership of propertymanagement or real estate
development companies for thelast I guess 20 years.
It's been about 2003, 2004.
I started off as a regionalmanager managing properties and
then, both because I liked theeducation and also I was
(19:55):
ambitious and wanted to advancea career, I got my master's in
business administration fromUniversity of Texas, austin, in
their executive program, whichwas every other Friday and
Saturday all day for basicallytwo years, and so that led me to
being more involved inacquisitions and financing and
then higher levels of management.
(20:17):
So I worked up to be the chiefoperating officer of an
apartment company about a 15,000unit apartment company in
Austin, and then eventuallyworked my way to Dominium, which
is about a 40,000 unitapartment developer and
apartment company.
We were based I'd say we say wewere based in Minnesota, but
(20:38):
now we're really spread amongstthe south and southeast and
southwest, because that's wherethe growth is.
We have offices in Atlanta,dallas and Phoenix.
I'm in the Dallas office, whichis kind of the main office.
I've been headed up themanagement company for the last
12 years for Dominium and I'mcurrently I've found my
(21:00):
replacement and so that person'sin place and now I'm an
executive partner with Dominium.
I'm on the investment committeeand the executive committee and
teach leadership classes andhave about three or four
projects as well as a lot of ourcharitable.
I head up our charitable grouptoo.
(21:21):
That gives, that gives back thecommunity and so uh, so you
know I've come.
I'm closer to the end than thebeginning, scott.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah that's true.
Yeah, well, and you were.
You were pretty involved.
So I had stated earlier, jackand I worked together.
Um, we actually built hisoffice here in Dallas and I was
the superintendent on thatproject.
But you were heavily involved.
Um, we would refer to Jack aslike the owner's side, basically
whoever the customer that we'rebuilding for but you and your
team were really involved almostin the day-to-day process and
(21:51):
your role overseeing, telling uswhat you want, what you didn't
like, what you did like.
So, although you're in propertymanagement, you also oversee
the construction aspect as well,even though you have people
managing that process on the dayto day.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Right, and that's, you know, that is uh comes back
to we are apartment developersand we build apartments and we,
you know, are heavily involvedin the design and so, uh, and so
we were heavily involved in thedesign and kind of the
execution there too.
But when we, um, you know,during COVID it's kind of a
quick, interesting story hereDuring COVID, when things sort
of stopped, you know, and therewas this is, you know, the
(22:29):
summer of 2020, we said, well,what's a big move we can make?
And we had planned on we werebased in Minnesota and done a
lot of our work in Minnesota,although we, you know,
apartments follow jobs and jobgrowth spend, you know, across
the Southeast Texas, southwest,apartments follow jobs and job
growth spend, you know, acrossthe Southeast Texas, southwest,
(22:50):
and so we'd been acquiring andand uh, and starting to build in
the Southeast and Southwest inTexas.
But, uh, but we said what's,you know, what's a big move?
We could make that kind ofaccelerate things, while
everybody else is kind of, youknow, focused on COVID.
What can we do big?
And so we had planned onopening offices.
Uh, in had planned on openingoffices closer to where we were
doing business.
But we went kind of big duringCOVID and we moved all of our
development out from Minnesotato Atlanta, dallas and Phoenix,
(23:15):
and senior people moved too.
So I was in Minnesota and Imoved to Dallas, and so I was
the senior person in Dallas.
The CEO actually moved toPhoenix and we had a couple of
our very senior developmentpeople moved to Atlanta.
So I was, you know, when Imoved from Minnesota there in
2020, 2021, I was the seniorperson here running the Dallas
(23:37):
office and so I was involved inthose kinds of things that you
know, directly working with you.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, it was a really enjoyable time, Jack.
I appreciated it.
So you kind of alluded to itearlier on how your service
helped you, but are there acouple of key takeaways that you
have in your role now that youthink your time in the service
really helped with?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Well, I mean, there's so many you know, because
ultimately I went, you know,smaller to bigger,
organizational leadership andorganizational and executive
leadership, and so you know, youlearn that in the military
because they're you knoweverything, you know when things
are, you know, from the squadup to you know, up to the U S
(24:19):
army.
So, uh, you know, you, youlearn lessons of that, but
really it's mostly you know.
You know most everything in theworld is is, uh, people in
leadership, and so you know,from a very young age I was in
charge of people and in chargeof getting things done and so uh
had, really early on, because Iwas, you know, second
(24:39):
lieutenant and you know we weargold, you're, you're was, you
know second lieutenant and youknow when you wear gold you're
supposedly, you know your braingets put on hold.
So I had, you know, secondlieutenant and major.
Those are the kind of theoriesbut you know.
But I had really great NCOs thattaught me how things work and
taught me how to lead people ata very micro.
You know, at a very personallevel, lead people at a very
(25:00):
micro, you know, at a verypersonal level, and so you know
the lessons.
I think.
So, scott, to answer thequestion first.
I think the leadership ofpeople and how to connect with
people and how to influenceothers to accomplish things is
largely from my time in themilitary, so everything from
then has gotten more complex ordifferent, or you know higher
(25:25):
dollars, but still it comes downto you know making people feel
like they can make a differenceand that you know treating them
as individuals and you knowusing a team to accomplish a lot
more than any individuals couldaccomplish.
I think that's you know, allother things aside, that is, I
(25:45):
attribute that to my time in themilitary, both at West Point,
which is basically four years ofleadership lab, and then the
military, which is for me, sevenyears of practical leading
people and being led andunderstanding you know
motivations and how to getthings done.
So I think that's first andforemost, and understanding you
(26:06):
know motivations and how to getthings done.
So I think that's first andforemost.
And then you know certainly theplanning aspect of it.
You know the operations orderand how to.
You know how to plan foroperations or is project
management Certainly you knowhaving that strong focus or you
know sort of drive anddetermination to, to to
accomplish a goal or accomplisha task is, you know, very
(26:27):
military focused and you bringthat I brought that to the real
estate world as well.
So I think those you knowthere's a lot of things, but
certainly the leadership,organization and and drive and
determination there's there'sall sorts of quotes out there.
Everybody has leadership thingsthat they hear in there.
There's, there's all sorts ofcodes out there.
Everybody has leadership thingsthey hear in there, but but, um
, you know, the determined, thedetermined person beats the
talented person almost everytime, and that's you know.
(26:48):
That's a a long time.
Lesson for me is you know, ifyou apply yourself and are
determined and smart about youknow how to get there, that
that's a, that's generally awinning and that's, uh, you, you
know that's a real militaryaspect, I think.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, very good nuggets of wisdom there.
I appreciate it, and I'm sureyour your worst day at work was
nowhere near your worst day atranger school.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, it's a blur.
I remember Zava, but it'spretty blurry.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, well, you get to eat and you get to sleep,
eventually, right?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Right, right, so, uh, so everybody fast, uh, uh, uh,
sort of fantasizes about things.
Mine was rb beef and cheddars.
When I was at ranger school.
I dropped about, I droppedabout 25 pounds in the in the 60
days, but I just like, for somereason, the beef and the rb's
beef and cheddar was just.
You know, that was my like godI wish I had one.
So I I uh, after we've been,after I finished, that afternoon
(27:40):
I drove from uh uh Fort Benning, georgia, up to my house and my
family's home in Ohio and Ithink I stopped at like eight
Arby's and route and had beefand cheddars the whole way home.
I was sick when I got home.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Uh, yeah, and I just had like about a dozen beef and
cheddars over that day.
Oh man, I can't imagine how youfelt the next day.
And I imagine how you felt thenext day Funny, yeah.
So, um, you had quite aninteresting journey, um, and
obviously you've become quitesuccessful in your career.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
But, uh, looking back , do you think there's anything
that you would change along theway, or you know, you, you, I
look back at, at, at things thatI could have done better and in
almost every case, you knowit's it's that's a very
interesting question, scott,because you can't, right, I mean
you can't go back.
Yeah, you can, you can.
You can, you can analyze whatyou've done and say, well, I
(28:29):
don't mind, I'm not gonna dothat again, I'm not touching
that hot stove again, or well,that didn't work, or that really
worked.
I want to do more of that.
So I think, um, when I first gotmy master's, I sort of doggedly
pursued a partnership interestin something and I got it, and
(28:50):
then that led to more ownershipas I went along in different
places, and I think that's mostof the great wealth in the
country is from, from realestate developers.
You know, if you look at all ofthe, the real wealth over the
last 250 years in the country, alot of it's real estate
(29:11):
development, and so so, you know, starting off that small
ownership piece, and then itsort of became expectation
everywhere I'd go that I, that Iwould, you know, take a
position.
That, uh, that had a shot atsome ownership piece, was really
, you know, made a hugedifference in my life.
It's, it's where I am today.
It's because of, you know, it'sbecause of that uh, coming out
(29:31):
of my getting my MBA and and andworking to get a uh, an
ownership piece in something.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Yeah, I guess I asked the question mainly because
there's plenty of other peopleout there that you know West
Point grads or people that arestill in that look up to a guy
like you and maybe think, hey,if there's something he could
have done differently, thatmaybe they could improve too.
But I appreciate you sharingthat and that's good Good.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
I have, uh, it's never let me down.
Now it doesn't work very well,necessarily, but education has
been.
You know, and and I've got,certainly you know, I've got a
lot of certifications that youget in real estate and you know,
but those are justcertifications, but the
(30:28):
education has been.
I think it has been a real gamechanger for me you know, both
from formal education and thencertifications, and then just on
the job, trainings.
You know, being curious, Ithink that's probably you know,
education, both formal andformal, and the and the
curiosity to want to figure outhow things work and then uh and
(30:48):
then make them better, those are, you know, those are skills
that are always in demand andthey'll always be, um,
compensated some way.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Yeah, well said, so we've got.
I'm sure you've ran into plentyof other veterans, uh, in
property management, real estate, construction, um, and, as we
know, there's a lot of long,hard days sometimes in that
arena, um, and burnout happensquite frequently.
We just came out of a mentalhealth awareness month.
(31:17):
Um, if you have people outthere listening specifically
veterans that are just, themental health crisis has gotten
just worse and worse over the 20years we were in war and then
going into a stressful industry.
What would you personally sayto somebody that came to you and
said Jack hey, I'm, I'm justreally having a rough time, man,
I don't know what to do andthey're kind of at their wits
end.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Well, I'll, I'll do the setup to what I think leads
to that and then what I try todo.
I think the hardest thing forme when I got out was the lack
of camaraderie.
You're around a bunch of peoplethat are similar to you,
different backgrounds, butsimilar.
We're doing the same things,we're working on the same goals.
(32:00):
We're, we're, you know, um,have a lot of the same interests
.
Um, you know, work ends and you, you, you go to the bar
together or you do sportstogether, but, but, but there's
this, there's a great sense ofcamaraderie that you have
military.
And then I got out and that wasjust, it was a.
The greatest shock is how thatkind of went from.
(32:20):
You know, this sort of huge,you know, cohort of people like
me doing similar things andenjoying the similar things and
then being on my own.
So I think that that is that,that lack of a little bit lack
of identity.
One, you know there's ego andidentity.
I'm doing these great thingsand I get out, and I'm not doing
(32:42):
those great things anymore.
You know that was the in a hardday you always said well, at
least I'm protecting, you know,at least I'm defending the
country, and you get out andthat's not really what you got.
In a regular job You're notreally.
You know you're supporting yourfamily, but that sort of shock
of not of having a supportnetwork of people that are
(33:02):
similar to you and having thatdeep sense of camaraderie and
trust, and then you come out anddon't have that.
So I think that first is a hugeshock for people and I think
it's the greatest.
I still miss it.
You know, I said still, I gotout in 1994 and I still miss
that.
So I've been out what's that?
30 years, good Lord, but Istill miss that piece of it, I
(33:22):
still miss the camaraderie.
And so I've, you know, tried tokeep those relationships and
networks of people that I knewin the military.
I still my best friends arestill the people that I went to
West Point, went to war with,and so you know, don't be alone.
You know, talk to people andthe people that probably have
the greatest understanding ofthe people that you knew in
(33:45):
those times or people that werealso in the military now.
But I think people that sort oflose hope, I think, get really
lonely and don't have somebodyto to and have that sense of
camaraderie, and so I thinkthat's really the most important
thing Surround yourself withpeople that have been through
(34:08):
what you've gone through andtalk about it and maintain that
you know, try to find thatcamaraderie on, you know, small
or large level.
I think it's hard because, youknow, I think I have through a
lot of the people I went toschool with and the people I
went to I was in the Army withand I've kept in touch with you
(34:29):
know 10 or so of them.
I do.
I do whenever I go, whenever Imove, and I've moved a lot.
I moved a lot in the Army.
I moved a lot in the civilianworld too for opportunities.
You know, that's the one thingabout you think when you get out
you don't have to move and youdon't.
But if you want to, if you'reambitious and you want to new
opportunities, sometimes you gotto move.
And so I've always connectedwith the military networks in
(34:51):
town, either West Pointsocieties or, you know, ausa or
just other other sort ofmilitary type things that for
years I recruited I didrecruiting for West Point too
when I was in the reserves andthen kept doing it afterwards
and just puts me in contact withpeople in the military.
So I'm talking a lot and I'mrambling a little bit, but I
(35:14):
think that loss of a sense ofcamaraderie and that not having
people like you that you canjust talk to and feel
comfortable with you've got toreplace know, replace that with
wherever you can find it, withpeople that were probably in the
military also before.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, yeah.
And I think when we wereworking together I think I
connected you with another WestPoint grad friend of mine too.
So that's always I found thatneat that West Point grads, that
instant connection you servedtogether.
You went through the same junkthrough school and you kind of
just like a fellow vet that Irun into at a job site, you kind
of you have this expectationthat, hey, this person most
(35:53):
likely has the same morals thatI do, right, probably has the
same drive that I do, probablysomebody I can count on too.
So I totally agree with you andI think every person I talk to
that's.
The one thing that they miss isthat teamwork aspect of working
towards the same goal, andthey're very A-type most of them
, very A-type driven individuals.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Right, right, yeah, yeah, and it's a, it's a, it was
a.
I don't know about you, but itwas a.
It was a shock.
The first year I was out man, Iwas like what did I do?
I'm thinking about going backin because I just missed it so
much.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
It was such a maybe taken for granted big piece of
my life.
Yeah, quick story, I actually.
So I got a year early out.
This is when they were doingthe reduction in force in 2011.
So I signed up, got the yearearly out, cause I was already
enrolled in college, um, andimmediately that first year I
went, just like you, what am Idoing?
And I tried to get back intoevery single branch I could find
(36:52):
.
Looking back, thank God Ididn't know about like the
national guard, uh, but everybranch I talked to it was well,
you got to go through this.
Or I went to the Marine Corpsand they said, oh well, you're
going to get dropped back to E1.
And I'm thinking I'm not goingto have some 18 year old kid,
lance Corbel, screaming at methat hasn't even been to any war
zone at all.
So that was an ego thing.
But, uh, thankfully I didn't.
But I I struggled for a longtime and it took me close to a
(37:14):
decade to just kind of getcomfortable in who I was, cause,
like you said, you go straightfrom high school in your
position, you go straight toWest Point and then straight
into the service, with me beingenlisted first it was straight
out of high school into themilitary and that's all I ever
knew.
So you're dumped into thisworld, like you said, you don't
even know anything really abouthow to navigate it and you just
(37:35):
kind of feel alone for a while.
But, to your point, what reallyhelped me through was
connecting with other veteransthat are going hey, I feel the
same way.
Let's, let's talk about this.
I think that's gotten a lotmore acceptable in the last five
to 10 years or so, that hey,look, it's, it's all right to
chat about not being OK, man,it's cool, you know you're not a
wuss.
Let's, let's discuss it.
(37:55):
Everybody has these samechallenges.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
You know, and it's what's gotten harder too, is
it's a lonelier world,everyone's you know people are
so used to just connectingelectronically and not face to
face and not voice, and it'sthat's.
You know, it's a, it's alonelier world which just I
think, um, it really makes themental health piece of it even
more difficult.
So I think you know, as much asyou can get face-to-face with
people or just talk to people.
(38:24):
Humans are not meant to sit bythemselves in a room looking at
a screen.
They're meant to interact withother humans.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
That's one of the great things about real estate.
You know it's a hard asset andyou know you can't build a
building sitting in your officeon a computer screen.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah, ai is not going to replace my job anytime soon,
that's for sure, right?
Well, in closing here, jack,let me ask one last question.
We know we need peopledesperately, whether that's in
property management, projectmanagement, the field, just the
whole building industry as awhole.
And if we've got folks that aretransitioning out of the
service, what would you say tothat person to try to encourage
(39:13):
them to get into this industry?
If they don't realize this isprobably a very good fit for
them?
Speaker 1 (39:19):
I think one.
It really I think it comes backto um, you don't really know
what's out there when you'regetting out and so uh.
So you know, I think, some sortof awareness of that other.
You ever heard of a companycalled forge?
now they basically yeahabsolutely yeah, yeah, they put
together basically a trainingprogram for plumbing, electrical
(39:42):
, and I think they've got afacilities management now too.
But they basically are takingpeople, they're getting out, use
some of the resources from themilitary to get them into the
trades that work in there, and Ithink something like that is, I
think, a tremendous way to getto transition from the military
(40:02):
into into real estatedevelopment, management,
construction, something likeForge now.
But.
But you know, how do you makepeople aware?
You know, I mean I, I've, I'vegone, you know I've I've gone
around to like the Fort Benningsof the world.
I think it's Fort Boer now.
You know, they changed all thenames since I was in.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
I struggle with them and Fort Hood, fort Cavazos, and
try to work through the groupsthere, but it's so hard to enter
in there and get to make animpact with people.
But there's a lot online online, I think, just awareness that,
uh, that you know the thingsthat you learned and made you
(40:46):
successful in the military arereally really uh, uh hard or or
uh uh important skills that'llmake it successful in the
construction and management umin in real estate.
So you know the awareness thatthose that those skills really
can translate better thanprobably a lot of other skills
into a career is, uh, is a bigpiece of it.
And and you know, I think, uh,that that's one thing with your,
(41:07):
with your podcast, that I thinkyou're able to do is maybe
reach people that are in and areor or looking for the next
thing, and and understand thatthe um that real estate and
construction is a is a greatpath for you.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah, it has been humbling.
Since I started the show.
People have reached out to methat are transitioning and
they've listened and you knowI'm making a small dent and I
appreciate it and getting guyslike you on has really helped um
, just kind of open people'seyes to what's out there.
It's not, it's nothing againstthe guys that swing hammers I
did it, but uh, there's there'sjust this whole other world in
the building industry and weneed people now more than ever.
(41:43):
Things are just booming rightnow, which is great.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Right, yeah, no, I agree, it's you know, especially
on for us on on the facilitiesand maintenance side.
I mean, it was a it was aproblem before COVID, it was a
big problem during COVID andstill here afterwards.
We're dramatically short peoplewith the skills to you know to
to run facilities and to runteams, and so that's you know.
(42:08):
It's it's demand, it's indemand.
It's certainly in demand.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Well, I'll be sure to tag you when we, when we post
this and I, I I don't want tospeak for you, but I'm sure it's
okay.
If somebody shoots you amessage on LinkedIn, you're on
there quite a bit.
Um and maybe just need someadvice or somebody to get
connected to.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I, I talked to, uh, I talked to people as much as I
possibly can and I'm happy to doit.
I, I'm happy to.
You know, I'm, I'm sort of a,like I said I'm, I'm close to
the end of my career than thebeginning, and so, you know, if
I can give back by just talkingto people and and, um, you know,
talking about my experiencesand talking with them about what
they might do, happy to do itand I like to do it.
(42:49):
So then I do it often, so I'mhappy to do that, Scott.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Yeah, you're certainly leaving a legacy, jack
.
I appreciate your time.
You're a busy guy, so thank youso much for being on here with
me.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Oh, you're welcome.
Thank you, it was a great hour,enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yes, sir, if you're a military veteran in the
construction industry or you'rein the construction industry and
support our military vets andyou'd like to be a guest on the
podcast, you can find me atconstructionvetpodcast at
gmailcom, or send me a messageon LinkedIn.
You can find me there at ScottFriend.
Let's share the stories andmotivate others.
I think the leadership of people and how to
connect with people and how toinfluence others to accomplish
things is largely from my family.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
This is the Construction Veteran Podcast,
connecting and celebratingveterans in construction.
Now here's your host, scottFriend.
Welcome back to theConstruction Veteran.
I'm Scott Friend.
I'm excited to bring to youguys Jack Sipes, a former client
of mine, a West Point grad,with an amazing story of how he
(00:38):
came up in commercial realestate.
Let's dig into it.
Let's dig into it, hey.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Jack, how are you, sir Scott, I'm fantastic.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
How about yourself?
I'm good.
It's good to talk to you again.
It's been a few years now.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
It has been a little while.
You know, time flies and thingschange.
It's been an odd time anyway,with you, anyway with the kind
of post-COVID and we met eachother post-COVID.
But it's just been a differentsort of last three, four years
than any other time of my career.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yes, sir, yeah, so Jack and I know each other.
He was a former client of minewith a former employer and I got
to say that you were up therewith one of the top three
customers I've worked with.
Uh, jack is in our industry aswell.
We'll go into a little bit ofthat and it's always a pleasure
having somebody that understandsthe struggles, uh, in the
(01:35):
construction industry when itcomes to material or delivering
a project exactly how peoplewant it.
Um, so that was reallyrefreshing, jack.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Thanks, it was the good and bad.
The bad is that we aredevelopers, we develop
apartments and we do a lot ofour own design work.
We've done a lot of probably20,000 units now at this point
that we've done, and so we thinkwe know a lot too.
So that's good and bad.
It's good we have a chance up,but it's bad that we try to tell
you what to do sometimes.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, yeah, and it's, I think, a good thing too.
If you have a bad contractoryou're working with.
You know there are tricks,right.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Right, that's very true.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Very cool.
So, jack, let's talk about yourservice background.
You have a really cool story.
I want to talk about whereyou're from and what got you
into the service, and yourpathway through West Point.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Right, well, I'm one of 10 kids I grew up in Dayton
Ohio.
My dad, the story was heenlisted on December 8th 1941.
So he and his buddies were outplaying, were out bowling, and
they got the word that the PearlHarbor was bombed, and so they
stayed out all night and thenenlisted the next day.
Now just a quick aside.
(02:47):
So, um, so I tried to get hisservice records for a long time.
He's he passed away in uh, in2001.
I tried to get a service recordsfor a long time and and uh, if
you didn't know, most, most ofthe service records from the
seventies and earlier werestored in a warehouse in St
Louis and caught fire and sothey were destroyed, or at least
(03:07):
you know, in a spot wherepeople couldn't figure it out
anymore.
So I would, every few years,would ask to try to get his
records, and finally they'vedigitized most of it, and when
they digitized it it's all sortof sortable now.
So I was able to get hisrecords and so that's really
cool because I could see wherehe was and what unit he was in
and what he did.
But it did put the myth he didnot enlist on December 8, 1941.
(03:31):
He enlisted like January of 1942.
So he still served and he wasan artilleryman which influenced
me and I was a gun sergeant andhad a 105 howitzer all through
and had a 105 howitzer allthrough kind of battle.
He landed about 30 days afterD-Day and fought up through the
Ardennes into Germany and thesurrender.
(03:51):
So I'd say I have some militaryinfluence, although not really.
He got out in, you know, late45.
But I went to West Point.
I was really good in school, Iwas a good athlete and I was
involved in a lot of leadershipthings and those are kind of the
three legs to the stool thatWest Point's looking for in
candidates and so my interestaligned with West Point's what
(04:15):
they were looking for.
So I went to West Point andclearly, if most people know,
but when you graduate you're acommissioner and officer officer
and then you have a six-yearcommitment afterwards and so it
kind of set me on the path to mytime in the military.
This would have been I went toWest Point in 83 to 87 and then
(04:36):
graduated in 87, went toairborne school, went to
artillery basic, officer basic,then went to ranger school and
went to Korea for my first year.
So I had a real, that first, uh, the first about year and a
half uh, post-graduation, I Iwas just a whirlwind of of going
places and doing, uh, you know,exciting things that you only
dream about.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, that's awesome man.
It was go, go, go for you.
Then, right after school,airborne ranger school.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
We hear a lot of the horror stories of ranger school.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Did you make it through in one pass?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I did, I uh, you know , and uh yeah, it's.
I think um, about a third, Ithink, of my class made it
through on the on on straightwithout having to recycle
anything, but just over 50% ofthe people that started ended up
graduating.
So, um, yeah, I was, I was awinter ranger too and it was, uh
, it was pretty cold.
I, I'd I've been cold, but uh,you know, being really really
(05:30):
cold and really really wet wasuh, was you know something?
I, yeah, I think my, mytoughest spot was in uh, in
florida, we, we walked for acouple days in the rain and you
know it was in the 40s and 50sout, and uh, had a ranger buddy
that made me a cup of coffee andbasically saved me because I
was, I was fading fast yeah, wet, tired, cold and hungry yeah
(05:52):
geez.
Well, and so you were artillery,you said correct yeah, so I, I
was a, an artillery officer anduh started off in in korea and
uh as a fire support officer fora tank company.
So you know, very interesting.
I thought of all the places Iwould go that might, you know,
have some sort of a real.
This is, you know, late 80sagain, and we hadn't fought as a
(06:13):
country since.
I mean, we, you know there wasGrenada in 83, but we hadn't
really fought as a country sinceVietnam and there weren't
really any prospects of fightingagain.
You know, my mom used to tellme how scared she was I was
going to go to war.
And I'm like mom, unless, youknow, unless the Soviets
(06:33):
attacked the full gap in GermanyI'm not, I'm not going to war,
and you know.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And so the world the world changes A lot of your time
in.
Was it mostly training then, ordid you guys do um like a
training deployment, or how didthat go, since we were in
peacetime in korea?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
now we have.
You know, there's a real warmission there.
So we, you know we were, wewould do alerts and go to our
battle positions and uh, youknow, I was about 10 miles from
the from the north korea borderand and, uh, it was a real world
mission and we had live ammo.
That that we would, you know,take, take war ammo with us
whenever we go, go to the field,just in case.
(07:07):
And the kind of otherinteresting thing is I was there
for the Olympics in 1988.
So about the first half of theOlympics we were on sort of
alert because there was somespeculation that North Korea
would do something to just tryto disrupt the Olympics.
But in the second half, when itwas clear that wasn't going to
happen, I got to go down andwent to probably 10 different
(07:29):
events.
I just went to track andbasketball and boxing and
wrestling and gymnastics.
It was a really neat, reallygood experience.
Oh man, that's the kind ofthings in the military that you
would have, those opportunitiesto do, sort of odd things that
you never think you'd ever do,and then you get to do them.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah.
So, other than the Olympics,did you ever have any time where
you thought, okay, this isgoing to happen, north Korea's
going to take action?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
No, I almost burned down South Korea, though.
Oh no, I was an evaluator, kindof observer controller for
another battalion's evaluation,and so I would go around and
throw artillery simulators tosimulate artillery and they
would have to react to it.
So I'd get a thing to go to thetop of this hill and do
(08:22):
artillery.
We can't take the Humvee upthere.
So I end up climbing up aboutthe last 50 yards straight to
the top of this hill and doartillery.
So we can't take the Humvee upthere.
So I end up climbing up aboutthe last 50 yards straight up
the side of this mountain.
So I get to the top and I'mjust like, do I really?
So I go ahead and throw one,and it's in the summer and it's
really really dry there, so it'smonsoonal, but then it's dry,
it's dry before and after,anyway.
(08:42):
So I monsoonal, but then it's,it's dry, it's dry before and
after, anyway.
So I throw this artillerysimulator in the grass top of
the hill and it catches on fireand it's spreading fast and my
driver's down, you know, 50yards away, and I'm up on top of
this hill thinking, you know,I'm I'm second lieutenant of the
army, I'm gonna burn down koreaand it's good.
You know what a, what a, youknow flame out of a career.
But uh, you know.
So I'm up there stamping like amadman.
(09:04):
I was able to stamp it all out.
But uh, I come down, I'm justblack from soot.
I'm sweating my driver's likewhat's up?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I'm like nothing I would have enjoyed hearing the
battalion commanders uh afteraction report on that one yeah,
it was hilarious for me.
Oh, that's awesome, so you didyour.
So did you just do the six in?
Did you do more than that?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
No, I was in Korea for a year.
Then I went to Fort Hood andthat's kind of where my mom's
like, oh, you're going to go towar.
I'm like, mom, we're not goingto war.
So we'd stack.
And then coming up on afour-day weekend that's another
kind of good thing about themilitary Three-day weekends
always became four-day weekendsand so coming up on a four-day
weekend I'm staying, I have my.
(09:50):
I was the battalion maintenanceofficer for a self-propelled
artillery battalion and so Ihave my team there because we're
getting ready to.
We're going to go to theNational Training Center in a
couple months and so we weredropping at the time to to in
the supply system.
You had to hand, write outthese cards to drop requisitions
for stuff.
So we were requisitioning allof our stuff for the national
(10:11):
training center and so we wereuh, so everybody else uh took
off for a four day, you know ona Friday at noon for a four day
weekend, and um, and so we'rethere in the afternoon and my
boss calls me up and says, hey,come, come up to the battalion
headquarters.
So I get up there and he saidthe colonel just got called in,
he goes.
I think we're going to getalerted to deploy because of
this Kuwait stuff, I'm like,really, so that's shocking.
(10:35):
So I went back and I'm like,well, if we're going to go, I'm
going to need some ports.
So we dropped, all you know athousand, some odd requisitions
for parts and things and we wereahead of everybody.
So you know, so that was mysort of claim to fame in the
first Gulf War was, we werestocked and no one else was.
(10:55):
Because I was, you know, in thefirst Cav division, I was
basically the first guy to droprequisitions for parts and
things because I was gettingready for NTC so fortuitous.
Requisitions for parts andthings because I was getting
ready for NTC, so fortuitous.
But yeah, so we trained up andwent to the first Gulf War and I
got there in mid-September andat the time, clearly, what
happened post 9-11 between Iraqand Afghanistan?
(11:16):
There was a much differentlevel of fighting war over a lot
of years and intense fighting,but at the time years and and,
uh, you know, intense fighting,but at the time there wasn't.
And so when we got there, youknow, we were essentially there
was 30 or 40 Iraqi divisions andthere was, I think, two of us
on the ground us and the uh, the101st, and so we were basically
(11:36):
, you know, supposed to justkind of uh, die in place, uh,
sort of delay them as much aspossible if they were, if they
were to attack.
So you know, as it turns out,we are the best trained and best
equipped military in the world.
You know, beat the Iraqis, butin September that wasn't so
obvious and it wasn't so clear,and so there was some months of
(11:58):
real apprehension, and then younever know how you're going to
react when you go to war.
And so I'm proud of what myteam and I did, and mostly
that's down to training and uhand discipline and what you do
in the military, which is, youknow, you you're clear about
what what uh the objective isand clear about you know how to
train for it, and then you trainand then, when it comes time to
(12:19):
execute it's you do it, andthose are super lessons you know
, that I've used throughout therest of my career as well.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, so uh, let me back up to West Point.
What did you study there?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
My, my major is engineering, management, uh, and
so you know, so a mix ofengineering classes and, uh and
management, so kind of hard andsoft yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
So do you think it was your dad's time of service
that it really launched you intowanting to go artillery instead
of going to an engineer unit?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
No, I think when we, the people that were going
artillery, it was a very peopleoriented and I liked a lot of
people that were doing it, andwhen we did our summer trainings
, the artillery seemed like apretty motivated kind of squared
away group, and so I think itwas more, you know, one of the
(13:10):
combat arms and I wanted to goto something where you know I
like the people that I was withboth, both my peers and and my
soldiers.
But I think that had somethingto do with it too.
It was kind of neat.
I mean, my dad was a gun chieffor three years in World War II,
and so it was a neat parallel.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, so let's go back.
So you did your deployment tothe Gulf War.
You finished up your time.
What did you first off, I guesswhat made you decide to get out
, and what were you looking atdoing when, when you got out of
the service?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
So uh came back from the Gulf war, went to the
artillery advanced course, wentto Fort Ord, california, and uh
was the seventh ID, which was alight and uh, and it liked what
I was doing.
I got married right around thesame time and was, you know,
deployed a lot.
The 7ID was part of the RapidDeployment Force and so we
(14:09):
deployed a few times differentplaces and so I was gone a lot.
Plus, there was, you know, thisis 1992, 93.
And there was, you know, kindof the peace dividend.
Clinton was elected, there was,the military was downsizing,
they were paying people to getout.
You know, kind of the, thepiece of it.
And Clinton was elected therewas, the military was downsizing
, they were paying people to getout, you know, and we and I
just fought a war that lookedlike there might not be
(14:31):
something else for 20 years, andso I think a lot of things, I
think there was some societalsort of you know like, what are
you going to do that?
You've done that, um, a littlebit.
There was the, the military wasdownsizing.
It didn't look like the missionwas going to be all that
interesting.
It was pretty predictable, andI had a young family, and so I
would say that I loved the army,but that was, you know, sort of
(14:52):
a senior captain, not quite amajor, and there were some
things I didn't like and so itwas seems, you know, it was a.
It was a difficult decision forme.
A lot of people, I think,jumped at the chance, but it was
a difficult decision for me.
A lot of people, I think,jumped at the chance, but it was
really difficult for me becauseI love the Army, but anyway.
So when you get out, I wentthrough a recruiter that
specializes in bringing juniorofficers to the corporate
(15:13):
America and generally there'stwo tracks that you come out in.
One is, at least at the time itwas kind of a technical sales,
so medical sales orpharmaceutical sales or chemical
sales or sort of manufacturingsupervision.
So I interviewed and thenumbers aren't exact but they're
kind of close I interviewedprobably eight sales jobs and
(15:34):
eight supervisory jobs and onereal estate job, and so it was
just so different thaneverything else.
It was just so different thaneverything else, um, and it was
with a company called Archstonewhich was, uh, uh, an apartment
developer or part of the uh realestate investment trust, public
(15:54):
public real estate company, anduh, and so one of the guys that
that was running one of thegroups there had hired
militaries before and so theywere trying to do that again.
They had a pirate about eightof us over two years.
But anyway, it was so differentand kind of in a career when
everyone's doing the same thingand there's a chance to do
something different, I jumped tosomething different and so I
didn't really know anythingabout it.
I really, beyond it being justdifferent than what everybody
(16:15):
else was doing, and I like thepeople that I talk to, I think
you know ultimately a lot of themoves I I make, I think, in my
life, have been toward a planI've always sort of had.
You know I want, I want to adirection.
I wanted to go in a, in acareer path I wanted to go.
But but I also, you know youspent so much time at work that
if you don't like and respectthe people you're with, it's
really it's not a verysatisfying life.
(16:38):
So so I liked and respected thepeople that I interviewed with
there and talked to and itlooked like a really interesting
sort of career path.
So I so I joined Archstone as amanagement trainee in their, in
their property management.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah Well, let me say , when you made that decision
for your family, I think that'salways the right thing to do.
For sure and I know a lot ofpeople are torn about that they
have that, that love for country, and one for sure.
So good on you, jack Right.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Right, right.
So it turned out, though youknow I mean what uh in 2001,
after, uh, after nine 11, Ireally, uh, you know, I, I I had
regrets.
A lot of people that I that Iwent to school with and were, uh
, still in the military at thetime and they would have been,
(17:29):
uh, majors time they were goingto war and it was not a, you
know, gulf War, I that you knowthat was kind of done, you know,
in and out in nine months, thiswas, it was real and it was,
you know, sort of an existentialthreat for country, and I
really it was sleepless nightssometimes, just you know, sort
of regretting, maybe that I didthe wrong thing not being there,
you know, to go into to war inAfghanistan or Iraq, back in the
Gulf with the uh war on terror.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, no, I completely understand that.
So let me, let me ask this sowe talked about the transition
piece that kind of got you intothat world, so you, you didn't
really have real estate on themind getting out.
It was just kind of aconnection that you made.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
It was.
You know it was uh, and really,when it comes down to it, and I
think people that spend sometime in the military, they don't
really know what the world does, especially if you spend a lot
of time in the military.
I mean, you kind of know, butyou kind of don't too, and so,
uh, you know, I wasn't sureexactly how everything all
worked.
And you know, I'd gone straightfrom, you know, high school to
West Point, which was military,and then into the Army, and so I
(18:28):
didn't really know howeverything worked.
And so, you know, I think a lotof people just sort of stumble
into careers, and I stumbledinto this one and really, if
there was anything about it, itwas that it was so different
than what everyone else wasdoing.
You know, all the other sort ofjunior officers were getting
out it was so different thanwhat everyone else was doing.
You know, all the other sort ofjunior officers were getting out
.
We're going to Johnson andJohnson and selling surgical
tools or Procter and Gamble andselling soap, and so it was just
(18:49):
really so different.
You know, going to apartmentmanagement and apartment
development.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, so I think this really speaks to the uh, the
value of networking andrelationships, for sure.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Some things I just you just kind of fall into and
then you're, you know you'regood at them.
I think you know, I thinkthat's the see.
People say, follow yourpassions.
But I think it's really kind offind something you're good at
and you can get paid at andyou'll probably, it'll probably
be a passion, but anyway, I kindof fell into it and I people in
property management either loveit or hate it because it's.
it can be a real grind and I,you know, I sort of I did pretty
(19:22):
well with the grind, yeah, sothat kind of segues into my next
question.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
So you're not necessarily on the field side of
the industry.
Let's talk about what you donow.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I have been in you know sort of executive levels of
leadership of propertymanagement or real estate
development companies for thelast I guess 20 years.
It's been about 2003, 2004.
I started off as a regionalmanager managing properties and
then, both because I liked theeducation and also I was
(19:55):
ambitious and wanted to advancea career, I got my master's in
business administration fromUniversity of Texas, austin, in
their executive program, whichwas every other Friday and
Saturday all day for basicallytwo years, and so that led me to
being more involved inacquisitions and financing and
then higher levels of management.
(20:17):
So I worked up to be the chiefoperating officer of an
apartment company about a 15,000unit apartment company in
Austin, and then eventuallyworked my way to Dominium, which
is about a 40,000 unitapartment developer and
apartment company.
We were based I'd say we say wewere based in Minnesota, but
(20:38):
now we're really spread amongstthe south and southeast and
southwest, because that's wherethe growth is.
We have offices in Atlanta,dallas and Phoenix.
I'm in the Dallas office, whichis kind of the main office.
I've been headed up themanagement company for the last
12 years for Dominium and I'mcurrently I've found my
(21:00):
replacement and so that person'sin place and now I'm an
executive partner with Dominium.
I'm on the investment committeeand the executive committee and
teach leadership classes andhave about three or four
projects as well as a lot of ourcharitable.
I head up our charitable grouptoo.
(21:21):
That gives, that gives back thecommunity and so uh, so you
know I've come.
I'm closer to the end than thebeginning, scott.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah that's true.
Yeah, well, and you were.
You were pretty involved.
So I had stated earlier, jackand I worked together.
Um, we actually built hisoffice here in Dallas and I was
the superintendent on thatproject.
But you were heavily involved.
Um, we would refer to Jack aslike the owner's side, basically
whoever the customer that we'rebuilding for but you and your
team were really involved almostin the day-to-day process and
(21:51):
your role overseeing, telling uswhat you want, what you didn't
like, what you did like.
So, although you're in propertymanagement, you also oversee
the construction aspect as well,even though you have people
managing that process on the dayto day.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Right, and that's, you know, that is uh comes back
to we are apartment developersand we build apartments and we,
you know, are heavily involvedin the design and so, uh, and so
we were heavily involved in thedesign and kind of the
execution there too.
But when we, um, you know,during COVID it's kind of a
quick, interesting story hereDuring COVID, when things sort
of stopped, you know, and therewas this is, you know, the
(22:29):
summer of 2020, we said, well,what's a big move we can make?
And we had planned on we werebased in Minnesota and done a
lot of our work in Minnesota,although we, you know,
apartments follow jobs and jobgrowth spend, you know, across
the Southeast Texas, southwest,apartments follow jobs and job
growth spend, you know, acrossthe Southeast Texas, southwest,
(22:50):
and so we'd been acquiring andand uh, and starting to build in
the Southeast and Southwest inTexas.
But, uh, but we said what's,you know, what's a big move?
We could make that kind ofaccelerate things, while
everybody else is kind of, youknow, focused on COVID.
What can we do big?
And so we had planned onopening offices.
Uh, in had planned on openingoffices closer to where we were
doing business.
But we went kind of big duringCOVID and we moved all of our
development out from Minnesotato Atlanta, dallas and Phoenix,
(23:15):
and senior people moved too.
So I was in Minnesota and Imoved to Dallas, and so I was
the senior person in Dallas.
The CEO actually moved toPhoenix and we had a couple of
our very senior developmentpeople moved to Atlanta.
So I was, you know, when Imoved from Minnesota there in
2020, 2021, I was the seniorperson here running the Dallas
(23:37):
office and so I was involved inthose kinds of things that you
know, directly working with you.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, it was a really enjoyable time, Jack.
I appreciated it.
So you kind of alluded to itearlier on how your service
helped you, but are there acouple of key takeaways that you
have in your role now that youthink your time in the service
really helped with?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Well, I mean, there's so many you know, because
ultimately I went, you know,smaller to bigger,
organizational leadership andorganizational and executive
leadership, and so you know, youlearn that in the military
because they're you knoweverything, you know when things
are, you know, from the squadup to you know, up to the U S
(24:19):
army.
So, uh, you know, you, youlearn lessons of that, but
really it's mostly you know.
You know most everything in theworld is is, uh, people in
leadership, and so you know,from a very young age I was in
charge of people and in chargeof getting things done and so uh
had, really early on, because Iwas, you know, second
(24:39):
lieutenant and you know we weargold, you're, you're was, you
know second lieutenant and youknow when you wear gold you're
supposedly, you know your braingets put on hold.
So I had, you know, secondlieutenant and major.
Those are the kind of theoriesbut you know.
But I had really great NCOs thattaught me how things work and
taught me how to lead people ata very micro.
You know, at a very personallevel, lead people at a very
(25:00):
micro, you know, at a verypersonal level, and so you know
the lessons.
I think.
So, scott, to answer thequestion first.
I think the leadership ofpeople and how to connect with
people and how to influenceothers to accomplish things is
largely from my time in themilitary, so everything from
then has gotten more complex ordifferent, or you know higher
(25:25):
dollars, but still it comes downto you know making people feel
like they can make a differenceand that you know treating them
as individuals and you knowusing a team to accomplish a lot
more than any individuals couldaccomplish.
I think that's you know, allother things aside, that is, I
(25:45):
attribute that to my time in themilitary, both at West Point,
which is basically four years ofleadership lab, and then the
military, which is for me, sevenyears of practical leading
people and being led andunderstanding you know
motivations and how to getthings done.
So I think that's first andforemost, and understanding you
(26:06):
know motivations and how to getthings done.
So I think that's first andforemost.
And then you know certainly theplanning aspect of it.
You know the operations orderand how to.
You know how to plan foroperations or is project
management Certainly you knowhaving that strong focus or you
know sort of drive anddetermination to, to to
accomplish a goal or accomplisha task is, you know, very
(26:27):
military focused and you bringthat I brought that to the real
estate world as well.
So I think those you knowthere's a lot of things, but
certainly the leadership,organization and and drive and
determination there's there'sall sorts of quotes out there.
Everybody has leadership thingsthat they hear in there.
There's, there's all sorts ofcodes out there.
Everybody has leadership thingsthey hear in there, but but, um
, you know, the determined, thedetermined person beats the
talented person almost everytime, and that's you know.
(26:48):
That's a a long time.
Lesson for me is you know, ifyou apply yourself and are
determined and smart about youknow how to get there, that
that's a, that's generally awinning and that's, uh, you, you
know that's a real militaryaspect, I think.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, very good nuggets of wisdom there.
I appreciate it, and I'm sureyour your worst day at work was
nowhere near your worst day atranger school.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, it's a blur.
I remember Zava, but it'spretty blurry.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, well, you get to eat and you get to sleep,
eventually, right?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Right, right, so, uh, so everybody fast, uh, uh, uh,
sort of fantasizes about things.
Mine was rb beef and cheddars.
When I was at ranger school.
I dropped about, I droppedabout 25 pounds in the in the 60
days, but I just like, for somereason, the beef and the rb's
beef and cheddar was just.
You know, that was my like godI wish I had one.
So I I uh, after we've been,after I finished, that afternoon
(27:40):
I drove from uh uh Fort Benning, georgia, up to my house and my
family's home in Ohio and Ithink I stopped at like eight
Arby's and route and had beefand cheddars the whole way home.
I was sick when I got home.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Uh, yeah, and I just had like about a dozen beef and
cheddars over that day.
Oh man, I can't imagine how youfelt the next day.
And I imagine how you felt thenext day Funny, yeah.
So, um, you had quite aninteresting journey, um, and
obviously you've become quitesuccessful in your career.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
But, uh, looking back , do you think there's anything
that you would change along theway, or you know, you, you, I
look back at, at, at things thatI could have done better and in
almost every case, you knowit's it's that's a very
interesting question, scott,because you can't, right, I mean
you can't go back.
Yeah, you can, you can.
You can, you can analyze whatyou've done and say, well, I
(28:29):
don't mind, I'm not gonna dothat again, I'm not touching
that hot stove again, or well,that didn't work, or that really
worked.
I want to do more of that.
So I think, um, when I first gotmy master's, I sort of doggedly
pursued a partnership interestin something and I got it, and
(28:50):
then that led to more ownershipas I went along in different
places, and I think that's mostof the great wealth in the
country is from, from realestate developers.
You know, if you look at all ofthe, the real wealth over the
last 250 years in the country, alot of it's real estate
(29:11):
development, and so so, you know, starting off that small
ownership piece, and then itsort of became expectation
everywhere I'd go that I, that Iwould, you know, take a
position.
That, uh, that had a shot atsome ownership piece, was really
, you know, made a hugedifference in my life.
It's, it's where I am today.
It's because of, you know, it'sbecause of that uh, coming out
(29:31):
of my getting my MBA and and andworking to get a uh, an
ownership piece in something.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Yeah, I guess I asked the question mainly because
there's plenty of other peopleout there that you know West
Point grads or people that arestill in that look up to a guy
like you and maybe think, hey,if there's something he could
have done differently, thatmaybe they could improve too.
But I appreciate you sharingthat and that's good Good.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
I have, uh, it's never let me down.
Now it doesn't work very well,necessarily, but education has
been.
You know, and and I've got,certainly you know, I've got a
lot of certifications that youget in real estate and you know,
but those are justcertifications, but the
(30:28):
education has been.
I think it has been a real gamechanger for me you know, both
from formal education and thencertifications, and then just on
the job, trainings.
You know, being curious, Ithink that's probably you know,
education, both formal andformal, and the and the
curiosity to want to figure outhow things work and then uh and
(30:48):
then make them better, those are, you know, those are skills
that are always in demand andthey'll always be, um,
compensated some way.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Yeah, well said, so we've got.
I'm sure you've ran into plentyof other veterans, uh, in
property management, real estate, construction, um, and, as we
know, there's a lot of long,hard days sometimes in that
arena, um, and burnout happensquite frequently.
We just came out of a mentalhealth awareness month.
(31:17):
Um, if you have people outthere listening specifically
veterans that are just, themental health crisis has gotten
just worse and worse over the 20years we were in war and then
going into a stressful industry.
What would you personally sayto somebody that came to you and
said Jack hey, I'm, I'm justreally having a rough time, man,
I don't know what to do andthey're kind of at their wits
end.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Well, I'll, I'll do the setup to what I think leads
to that and then what I try todo.
I think the hardest thing forme when I got out was the lack
of camaraderie.
You're around a bunch of peoplethat are similar to you,
different backgrounds, butsimilar.
We're doing the same things,we're working on the same goals.
(32:00):
We're, we're, you know, um,have a lot of the same interests
.
Um, you know, work ends and you, you, you go to the bar
together or you do sportstogether, but, but, but there's
this, there's a great sense ofcamaraderie that you have
military.
And then I got out and that wasjust, it was a.
The greatest shock is how thatkind of went from.
(32:20):
You know, this sort of huge,you know, cohort of people like
me doing similar things andenjoying the similar things and
then being on my own.
So I think that that is that,that lack of a little bit lack
of identity.
One, you know there's ego andidentity.
I'm doing these great thingsand I get out, and I'm not doing
(32:42):
those great things anymore.
You know that was the in a hardday you always said well, at
least I'm protecting, you know,at least I'm defending the
country, and you get out andthat's not really what you got.
In a regular job You're notreally.
You know you're supporting yourfamily, but that sort of shock
of not of having a supportnetwork of people that are
(33:02):
similar to you and having thatdeep sense of camaraderie and
trust, and then you come out anddon't have that.
So I think that first is a hugeshock for people and I think
it's the greatest.
I still miss it.
You know, I said still, I gotout in 1994 and I still miss
that.
So I've been out what's that?
30 years, good Lord, but Istill miss that piece of it, I
(33:22):
still miss the camaraderie.
And so I've, you know, tried tokeep those relationships and
networks of people that I knewin the military.
I still my best friends arestill the people that I went to
West Point, went to war with,and so you know, don't be alone.
You know, talk to people andthe people that probably have
the greatest understanding ofthe people that you knew in
(33:45):
those times or people that werealso in the military now.
But I think people that sort oflose hope, I think, get really
lonely and don't have somebodyto to and have that sense of
camaraderie, and so I thinkthat's really the most important
thing Surround yourself withpeople that have been through
(34:08):
what you've gone through andtalk about it and maintain that
you know, try to find thatcamaraderie on, you know, small
or large level.
I think it's hard because, youknow, I think I have through a
lot of the people I went toschool with and the people I
went to I was in the Army withand I've kept in touch with you
(34:29):
know 10 or so of them.
I do.
I do whenever I go, whenever Imove, and I've moved a lot.
I moved a lot in the Army.
I moved a lot in the civilianworld too for opportunities.
You know, that's the one thingabout you think when you get out
you don't have to move and youdon't.
But if you want to, if you'reambitious and you want to new
opportunities, sometimes you gotto move.
And so I've always connectedwith the military networks in
(34:51):
town, either West Pointsocieties or, you know, ausa or
just other other sort ofmilitary type things that for
years I recruited I didrecruiting for West Point too
when I was in the reserves andthen kept doing it afterwards
and just puts me in contact withpeople in the military.
So I'm talking a lot and I'mrambling a little bit, but I
(35:14):
think that loss of a sense ofcamaraderie and that not having
people like you that you canjust talk to and feel
comfortable with you've got toreplace know, replace that with
wherever you can find it, withpeople that were probably in the
military also before.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, yeah.
And I think when we wereworking together I think I
connected you with another WestPoint grad friend of mine too.
So that's always I found thatneat that West Point grads, that
instant connection you servedtogether.
You went through the same junkthrough school and you kind of
just like a fellow vet that Irun into at a job site, you kind
of you have this expectationthat, hey, this person most
(35:53):
likely has the same morals thatI do, right, probably has the
same drive that I do, probablysomebody I can count on too.
So I totally agree with you andI think every person I talk to
that's.
The one thing that they miss isthat teamwork aspect of working
towards the same goal, andthey're very A-type most of them
, very A-type driven individuals.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Right, right, yeah, yeah, and it's a, it's a, it was
a.
I don't know about you, but itwas a.
It was a shock.
The first year I was out man, Iwas like what did I do?
I'm thinking about going backin because I just missed it so
much.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
It was such a maybe taken for granted big piece of
my life.
Yeah, quick story, I actually.
So I got a year early out.
This is when they were doingthe reduction in force in 2011.
So I signed up, got the yearearly out, cause I was already
enrolled in college, um, andimmediately that first year I
went, just like you, what am Idoing?
And I tried to get back intoevery single branch I could find
(36:52):
.
Looking back, thank God Ididn't know about like the
national guard, uh, but everybranch I talked to it was well,
you got to go through this.
Or I went to the Marine Corpsand they said, oh well, you're
going to get dropped back to E1.
And I'm thinking I'm not goingto have some 18 year old kid,
lance Corbel, screaming at methat hasn't even been to any war
zone at all.
So that was an ego thing.
But, uh, thankfully I didn't.
But I I struggled for a longtime and it took me close to a
(37:14):
decade to just kind of getcomfortable in who I was, cause,
like you said, you go straightfrom high school in your
position, you go straight toWest Point and then straight
into the service, with me beingenlisted first it was straight
out of high school into themilitary and that's all I ever
knew.
So you're dumped into thisworld, like you said, you don't
even know anything really abouthow to navigate it and you just
(37:35):
kind of feel alone for a while.
But, to your point, what reallyhelped me through was
connecting with other veteransthat are going hey, I feel the
same way.
Let's, let's talk about this.
I think that's gotten a lotmore acceptable in the last five
to 10 years or so, that hey,look, it's, it's all right to
chat about not being OK, man,it's cool, you know you're not a
wuss.
Let's, let's discuss it.
(37:55):
Everybody has these samechallenges.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
You know, and it's what's gotten harder too, is
it's a lonelier world,everyone's you know people are
so used to just connectingelectronically and not face to
face and not voice, and it'sthat's.
You know, it's a, it's alonelier world which just I
think, um, it really makes themental health piece of it even
more difficult.
So I think you know, as much asyou can get face-to-face with
people or just talk to people.
(38:24):
Humans are not meant to sit bythemselves in a room looking at
a screen.
They're meant to interact withother humans.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
That's one of the great things about real estate.
You know it's a hard asset andyou know you can't build a
building sitting in your officeon a computer screen.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah, ai is not going to replace my job anytime soon,
that's for sure, right?
Well, in closing here, jack,let me ask one last question.
We know we need peopledesperately, whether that's in
property management, projectmanagement, the field, just the
whole building industry as awhole.
And if we've got folks that aretransitioning out of the
service, what would you say tothat person to try to encourage
(39:13):
them to get into this industry?
If they don't realize this isprobably a very good fit for
them?
Speaker 1 (39:19):
I think one.
It really I think it comes backto um, you don't really know
what's out there when you'regetting out and so uh.
So you know, I think, some sortof awareness of that other.
You ever heard of a companycalled forge?
now they basically yeahabsolutely yeah, yeah, they put
together basically a trainingprogram for plumbing, electrical
(39:42):
, and I think they've got afacilities management now too.
But they basically are takingpeople, they're getting out, use
some of the resources from themilitary to get them into the
trades that work in there, and Ithink something like that is, I
think, a tremendous way to getto transition from the military
(40:02):
into into real estatedevelopment, management,
construction, something likeForge now.
But.
But you know, how do you makepeople aware?
You know, I mean I, I've, I'vegone, you know I've I've gone
around to like the Fort Benningsof the world.
I think it's Fort Boer now.
You know, they changed all thenames since I was in.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
I struggle with them and Fort Hood, fort Cavazos, and
try to work through the groupsthere, but it's so hard to enter
in there and get to make animpact with people.
But there's a lot online online, I think, just awareness that,
uh, that you know the thingsthat you learned and made you
(40:46):
successful in the military arereally really uh, uh hard or or
uh uh important skills that'llmake it successful in the
construction and management umin in real estate.
So you know the awareness thatthose that those skills really
can translate better thanprobably a lot of other skills
into a career is, uh, is a bigpiece of it.
And and you know, I think, uh,that that's one thing with your,
(41:07):
with your podcast, that I thinkyou're able to do is maybe
reach people that are in and areor or looking for the next
thing, and and understand thatthe um that real estate and
construction is a is a greatpath for you.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah, it has been humbling.
Since I started the show.
People have reached out to methat are transitioning and
they've listened and you knowI'm making a small dent and I
appreciate it and getting guyslike you on has really helped um
, just kind of open people'seyes to what's out there.
It's not, it's nothing againstthe guys that swing hammers I
did it, but uh, there's there'sjust this whole other world in
the building industry and weneed people now more than ever.
(41:43):
Things are just booming rightnow, which is great.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Right, yeah, no, I agree, it's you know, especially
on for us on on the facilitiesand maintenance side.
I mean, it was a it was aproblem before COVID, it was a
big problem during COVID andstill here afterwards.
We're dramatically short peoplewith the skills to you know to
to run facilities and to runteams, and so that's you know.
(42:08):
It's it's demand, it's indemand.
It's certainly in demand.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Well, I'll be sure to tag you when we, when we post
this and I, I I don't want tospeak for you, but I'm sure it's
okay.
If somebody shoots you amessage on LinkedIn, you're on
there quite a bit.
Um and maybe just need someadvice or somebody to get
connected to.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I, I talked to, uh, I talked to people as much as I
possibly can and I'm happy to doit.
I, I'm happy to.
You know, I'm, I'm sort of a,like I said I'm, I'm close to
the end of my career than thebeginning, and so, you know, if
I can give back by just talkingto people and and, um, you know,
talking about my experiencesand talking with them about what
they might do, happy to do itand I like to do it.
(42:49):
So then I do it often, so I'mhappy to do that, Scott.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Yeah, you're certainly leaving a legacy, jack
.
I appreciate your time.
You're a busy guy, so thank youso much for being on here with
me.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Oh, you're welcome.
Thank you, it was a great hour,enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yes, sir, if you're a military veteran in the
construction industry or you'rein the construction industry and
support our military vets andyou'd like to be a guest on the
podcast, you can find me atconstructionvetpodcast at
gmailcom, or send me a messageon LinkedIn.
You can find me there at ScottFriend.
Let's share the stories andmotivate others.
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