September 15, 2024 • 45 mins
Ever wondered how military leadership transitions into a civilian career? Former Marine Corps helicopter pilot Dan Sampson takes us on an inspiring journey from his roots in Dallas, Texas, through rigorous years at the Naval Academy and his decade-long service flying UH-1 Yankee helicopters. Now a project manager at Arco Murray, Dan navigates the complexities of managing contracts, supporting field operations, and ensuring client satisfaction. Tune in to hear Dan's reflections on military esprit de corps and how it shaped his early career aspirations.
Our conversation dives into the unique dynamic between project managers and superintendents in the construction industry, drawing compelling parallels to the military relationship between officers and senior NCOs. Dan and I share personal anecdotes, emphasizing the importance of collaboration and understanding each other's roles. We also explore the strategic decision-making and networking that are crucial for veterans transitioning from the military to new careers, underscoring the value of a supportive community.
In the final segment, we address the emotional and psychological hurdles veterans often face upon leaving the service, particularly the loss of a tight-knit community. Dan opens up about the isolation many veterans feel and the importance of seeking social connections and support networks. We highlight organizations like Memorial Ranch and Bullets and Bourbon that provide crucial outlets for veterans. The episode wraps up with a heartfelt exchange of gratitude, underscoring the importance of meaningful interactions and community engagement in both military and civilian life.
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If you're a military veteran in the construction industry, or you're in the construction industry and support our military vets, and you'd like to be a guest on the podcast you can find me at constructionvetpodcast@gmail.com , or send me a message on LinkedIn. You can find me there at Scott Friend. Let's share the stories and motivate others!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott Friend (00:07):
every construction project.
Project is is a mission and youcan define for yourself a
purpose this is the constructionveteran podcast, connecting and
celebrating veterans inconstruction.
Dan Samson (00:24):
Now.
Now, here's your host, scottFriend.
Welcome back to theConstruction Veteran Podcast.
I'm Scott Friend and I amstoked to bring you guys my
friend Dan Sampson, a formerMarine Corps helicopter pilot
and current project manager inthe construction industry.
Let's dig into it.
Manager in the constructionindustry.
Scott Friend (00:50):
Let's dig into it.
Dan Samson (00:53):
Hey Dan, what's going on man?
Hey Scott, how are you?
I'm very good.
I'm glad to have you on.
So Dan and I met at a monthlyevent here in the Dallas area
called Bullets and Bourbon, ranby a former SEAL officer named
Clint Bruce, which is actuallyan old friend of Dan.
We'll get into that here in alittle bit.
So, dan, I want to first divein and talk about where you're
from and what you did in theservice.
Scott Friend (01:13):
Yeah, no, absolutely, and Scott, thanks
for having me on.
Yeah, my name is Dan Sampson.
I grew up here in Dallas, texas, graduated high school in 2008,
and then went to the NavalAcademy, graduated there in 2012
and then spent 10 years in theMarine Corps where I was a UH-1
(01:37):
Yankee helicopter pilot, wrappedup my active duty time towards
the latter part of 2022.
Wrapped up my active duty timetowards the latter part of 2022.
And then came on board withArco Murray, my current company,
which is a national generalcontractor focusing in design,
build construction.
Dan Samson (01:59):
And I work as a project manager.
So, dan, I got to ask when yougo to the academy so most people
might know but not everybodyknows you have the opportunity
to go become a naval officer orMarine Corps officer.
What was the decision on yourpart why you went Marine Corps?
Scott Friend (02:11):
So I had actually known that I wanted to be a
Marine for quite some time, sokind of like fifth or sixth
grade and I'm not.
I've tried to trace this back acouple of times and I'm not
entirely sure how I arrived onthe Marine Corps Some
combination of like a prettyserious Marine Corps recruiting
effort, I'm sure, and then alsokind of the esprit de corps
(02:35):
that's associated to the MarineCorps.
I think that was around thetime that the guy in his dress
blues, you know, killing adragon with a sword, that
commercial came out.
Dan Samson (02:44):
Oh yeah, if you came out, oh yeah.
Scott Friend (02:45):
If you're familiar .
I probably probably got itshooks into me pretty good, Um,
so that had been, you know, afocus of mine for quite some
time.
Um, and then in, you know, inmiddle school, I, I struggled
academically and ended up with a, uh, with a tutor for math who
had attended the Naval Academyand I kind of heard some stories
(03:08):
and was like man, that soundsreally cool.
And then, um, between my eighthgrade year and freshman year of
high school, uh, I ended upgetting to go visit the Naval
Academy for about a week, um,during graduation week, which uh
, is is quite the event and kindof gets you, gets you pretty
fired up about it.
Um, and I was like um, duringgraduation week, which uh, is is
quite the event and kind ofgets you gets you pretty fired
up about it.
Um, and I was like man, youknow, you can go to this really
(03:31):
cool college and, um, and go bea Marine too.
That sounds, you know, kind ofkind of like the the choice for
me.
So I was, you know, I waspretty dead set on that starting
, starting in high school, uh,but the Marine Corps, you know,
substantially before that, uh, Ithink it was, you know, like I
said, the, the esprit de corpsand kind of the few, the proud
(03:52):
um aspect of that you knowwhether, whether warranted or
not at the time for a, for ayoung 11 year old was was pretty
motivating.
Dan Samson (04:01):
Oh cool.
So you thought you were goingto be slaying dragons and dress
blues.
Scott Friend (04:05):
Uh, that's correct .
Um, I, yeah I, I did not get todo that.
Um.
I know it was a bummer, um, butyeah, no, the Marine Corps
career was, you know, wasawesome and and you know that
that esprit de corps was wasobviously on on display and and
was where I belonged, I think so, uh, it all, it all worked out
(04:28):
for the best.
But, yeah, no, no dragons,never saw a dragon.
Dan Samson (04:32):
Very cool.
So, uh, you mentioned you're aproject manager, and so, uh,
tell me what is a projectmanager?
Uh, if people don't know,really in the construction side,
what you do, what would you sayis like a typical day to day.
Scott Friend (04:44):
Yeah, I think so.
So generally, and you know, forthose veterans that are,
they're looking to the AECindustry, you've got, you know,
generally, like two hemispheresof a construction project and
you know they're they'renominally called the field in
the office.
Your, your superintendent,which, scott, you're uh
(05:04):
intimately familiar with thatrole um is basically running
things uh in the field and yourproject manager is have a pretty
uh pretty wide breadth ofresponsibilities.
Uh, and that can, that canrange from, you know, any any
(05:33):
part of a construction uhproject.
So uh, like my, my militarybrain wants to call that the
left and right side of aconstruction process, progress
project Um, but anything from uhestimating to uh to getting
into the actual weeds of of aconstruction project, so um,
(05:54):
managing contracts with, withowners, managing subcontracts
with.
You know, your your different uhtrade teams, um dealing with
things as they come up on siteto provide as much
administrative support as youpossibly can.
And then sometimes you knowbeing a sounding board for your
superintendent to bounce someideas off or providing your own
(06:18):
directional ideas to you know,project closeout, where you're
managing the punch list andensuring that you know you've
got a satisfied and happy clientat the end of the project.
So a good amount ofadministrative support, a lot of
managerial aspects to that job,and then, at the end of the day
, you're providing as muchleadership as you think that you
(06:41):
can or is deemed appropriatefor a project.
As you think that you can or isdeemed appropriate for a
project is something that goes along way in motivating a team,
is understanding that theproject manager that is behind
the desk is not always behindthe desk and is on site, and
it's tough to be mad at someonewhen you actually know them by
(07:01):
name and by face.
Dan Samson (07:04):
Yeah, very well said , man.
So, um, I think there's acommon misconception that, like,
the superintendent works forthe PM, or vice versa.
Certainly, um, how would youdescribe that relationship, I
think?
Scott Friend (07:16):
one of the the best ways to answer that
question, especially with withthe audience that we have here,
um with with veterans that arelooking at the AAC industry, is
like on my on my second day atat Arco I, I, uh, I actually
spent all day on site with asuperintendent um on a, on a
(07:37):
project that was probably callit 60% complete or so.
Um prior to this and Scott, youdid, you did a great job of
digging into my background herebut I was a Marine helicopter
pilot.
It's not the CVs, we weren'tconstructing things.
(07:58):
In fact, if they saw pilotswith tools, they usually told us
to put them down, which I thinkis fair.
With tools, they usually toldus to put them down, which I
think is fair.
But you know, I walked on thisconstruction site day two and I
started talking about thesuperintendent and I at the time
was generally unfamiliar withthe roles of what a
(08:19):
superintendent was and what aproject manager was, and you
know how those roles kind ofinterfaced and I started to, I
sat down with the superintendentand I basically just asked like
, hey, if you could, if youcould build your perfect project
manager, you know what?
What would this project managerlook like Um, good question,
thank you.
And he started to describe umbasically like someone that
(08:43):
would support, like theadministrative functionalities
of a superintendent and of thelike the project in general.
And as he was describing this, Iwas thinking in the back of my
head and it's not exactly.
You know, scott, to your point,like the superintendent is not
working for the project manager.
The project manager andsuperintendent are working hand
(09:03):
in hand, um, but I, I I wasreminded of like echoes of a,
you know, staff and CO and likejunior officer uh relationship.
Like specifically, the goodones, right, the, the, the
junior officers that are not uh,pointing at the shiny stuff on
their collar and saying, likewe're going to do this because
(09:24):
you know, I went to college andthat's what I said.
Um, and the staff and CEOs thatare willing to provide some
left and right, you know laterallimits for for their officers
to support, like, at the end ofthe day, a good officer.
You know, as much as we don'tlike to believe it is not a
trigger puller, right, likewe're not a trigger puller,
(09:46):
we're not the tactical arm, weare setting conditions for our
trigger pullers to succeed.
And I think of that verysimilarly with a project manager
and a superintendent.
You know your subject matterexpert.
They're the.
You know SME, if we want to useacronyms, but, um, the project
(10:09):
manager exists during the courseof construction to set
conditions for thesuperintendent and for the field
team to succeed, um, and whenyou know you have two people
that are operating with thatrelationship in mind, I think
that the project is, is bound tosucceed.
Um, when those two roles andresponsibilities get reversed.
(10:31):
I mean you, you, scott, you sawit in the, in the military all
the time, and you know I'm, I'monly using that cause.
You know that's that's, I spent10 years there.
Um, that's when, when thingsstart to you know, quote unquote
come off the rails a little bit.
Um, and hopefully that kind ofkind of summates what I, what I
think about that relationship.
Dan Samson (10:52):
Yeah, no, that's good, and I appreciate that you
took the time to ask thatquestion as well, because I
think there's a lot there.
A lot of different companieswill have that animosity between
the field and the office.
It's this well they don't knowwhat they're doing, and it it
goes both ways.
But when you kind of dig intoeach other's world a little bit,
you realize yeah well, I'm notreally doing what I need to do
to support this guy, and viceversa.
(11:13):
So I appreciate you doing thatwith your super yeah, no,
absolutely.
Scott Friend (11:22):
I mean I think it's the superintendent, is the
stake that a constructionproject rides on and a good
project manager andsuperintendent are going to work
hand in hand and the officerstaff and CO hopefully that
doesn hand.
And you know the the officerstaff and CO like, uh, hopefully
that doesn't come across in thewrong way, like that's those,
those symbiotic relationships.
You know the the staff and COis is not working for the
officer I, you know, as anofficer I I really did not like
(11:47):
that, that type of relationshipit's.
It's two people working on the,you know, on the same level,
one is working to support thelike the actual, you know,
trigger pulling functionalitiesof the other um and and support
them in the best way they canset conditions for for success.
You know, for your quote,unquote, trigger pullers.
Dan Samson (12:08):
Yeah, that's good.
I'll share a quick story.
I don't know if I've shared iton the post before, but know or
the podcast before.
I know I've told some friends.
But uh, when I went back in andI commissioned into the army
reserves, we went out to thefield and I had another butter
bar with me at the time and hehad no prior service and the
command sergeant major wanted usto wear our gear basically as
soon as we stepped out of thetent.
(12:28):
And this is blazing hot outsidehe's like I don't.
Why do we have to do this?
This is goofy, and can't I tellhim I'm not going to do that,
Cause I'm an officer?
I said, well, maybe on paper,but he's going to turn around
and go to the battalioncommander and say you need to
fix that officer.
Scott Friend (12:43):
That's exactly right yeah.
Dan Samson (12:45):
Yeah, I kind of know your role type deal, so, um,
all right, so let me, let mechange here a little bit, change
it up.
Um, what was it?
Scott Friend (12:58):
Because you went from being a helicopter pilot
and now you're in construction.
How did that happen?
Yeah, so um, probably a longeranswer here than you're looking
for, but um, no man the floor isyours around the.
So you know.
So for me, I reached the 10year mark and you know that's
that's about the time whereeverybody's deciding is it, is
it?
It's kind of like your lastchance, like, is it time to
(13:20):
leave or are you going to rideit out for another 10 years?
My wife and I had had a bunchof conversations.
My wife is absolutely wonderfuland supported, you know, at the
end of the day she was, she wasvery frank and said you know,
this is, this is your decisionto make.
Um, you know you lead ourfamily in the way that you, that
you feel is is the right way.
(13:42):
Um, I, I asked myself somepretty, some pretty in-depth
questions, uh, to arrive at thesolution that you know it was,
it was it was time to forgivethe aviation pun but punch out
that.
You know it was, it was, it wastime to forgive the aviation
pun but punch out.
Um, and before I, before I madethat, that decision, um, it or
(14:04):
kind of like in concert withthat decision, I, I started
getting very aggressive, uh, on,you know quote unquote
networking.
Um and it's relatively tough todo when you're, when you're
insulated.
You know, quote unquotenetworking, um, and it's
relatively tough to do whenyou're, when you're insulated,
you know, on whatever militarybase you're, you're at because I
would be willing to bet there'sa, there's a fairly good chance
that that location isgeographically disparate from
where you eventually want to endup.
(14:25):
Um, so I, I, I started, uh, andyou know, scott, we talked
about it.
I, I had wanted to be a Marinesince I was in fifth grade.
Um, and Scott, we talked aboutit.
I had wanted to be a Marinesince I was in fifth grade and
then get to the end of a 10-yearcareer.
I'm 32 years old, I've got awife and a kid and I have to
decide what I want to do when Igrow up, which is a tough
decision to arrive at.
(14:45):
So I started digging into justcompanies that I'd heard of, you
know, professions that I justlike generally had heard of.
I leveraged LinkedIn in apretty big way and it's
something that I would advocatefor for veterans that are
looking to get out.
You can get a LinkedIn premiumaccount for a 12 month time
(15:08):
period for free if you're amilitary active duty member or a
veteran, if you haven't done itpreviously.
And I would look into companiesand industries and I would
search for someone that hadsomething in common with me.
So three things generally cometo mind.
And I was a Naval Academygraduate.
That network's relativelystrong.
(15:28):
I was a Marine and then I aMarine and then I was a
helicopter pilot, um, so I wouldlook for someone in that
company or industry that hadsomething similar with me in
common.
So once I found that person, Iwould send them a message and
ask for 30 minutes of their time, um to hop on a call and just
(15:50):
hear their story, hear how thetransition went, how they
decided on the industry theywere in Um and that that
informed um.
It just gave me like a generalbackground for for how guys were
, you know, arriving in certainindustries?
Um, around that time period Iactually got connected to one of
the uh the partners at mycurrent company, um, via a
(16:12):
friend from high school.
Um, you know he, we were.
We happened to be at a weddinguh together and you know he kind
of looked across the table.
It was like hey, have you everthought about project management
?
And you know Scott staff andCOs officers, like that's kind
of like the go-to move for usgetting out and it was like the
first thing you think of isproject management.
Um, and I like the go-to movefor us now and it was like the
(16:32):
first thing you think of isproject management and I was
like yeah, absolutely.
And he said that he wanted toconnect me with with, with one
of our you know, one of one ofour partners.
We hopped on a call and I didsome quick research on you know
Arco Murray and what they did.
I come to some.
(16:53):
A decent amount of my family isin the construction industry, so
I have some peripheralknowledge of it, not not very
in-depth but but but peripheral.
Um, I think the thing thatimpressed me the most, actually,
uh or or kind of like stuckwith me the most is I.
I probably I had two or threecalls with with different people
(17:15):
in leadership positions at theARCO Dallas office and you know
I was immensely impressed withwith how forthcoming and
intelligent and you know thequestions that they were asking
they were just it was like man,this.
This feels to me a lot like,you know, a ready room feels or
(17:36):
a squadron feels, where, whereyou've got you know smart people
that are, that are driven andconfident in themselves.
And I was like you know, gosh,you know I'm looking for kind of
a softer landing pad here, youknow, recognizing that I was
going to lose some of thatenvironment as I left the
military, kind of, as thoseinterviews progressed like I
(17:59):
never lost that feeling, ifanything, it compounded.
And then I ended up gettingoffered a position and you know
I didn't look back from there.
For me it was, I was actuallydrawn by the social environment
of the company that I work at.
Once we got into and I gotexposed to the construction
(18:21):
industry and I'm on our tenantsolutions team.
Industry term is tenantimprovement.
Generally it's existingrenovations of existing
structures.
Man, I loved it, it was it andhave loved it it's.
You know, a construction projectgenerally mirrors the
operational planning cycle ofthe military in a sense of you
(18:45):
know you've got a definedobjective and you backwards plan
.
You know, I know, on a previouspodcast, you, you, you know
mentioned some lean planningprinciples and it, you know it's
this you've got this definedobjective, backwards plan from
the defined objective in orderto to arrive at your end state.
And it, you know, a lot oftimes in the military.
You've got this relativelynebulous end state of like.
(19:05):
Well, you know we'll capture inseas and you know whatever the,
the, you know verbiage is there, but you know it's hard to be.
You know more concrete andbuilding, you know, or like
there's, this is, this is howwe're going to, this is, this is
what we're going to do at theat the end of the day, like,
this is 100% of the productwe're looking to turn over to
(19:27):
the client and I, I, I enjoythat type of planning.
And then, you know, the tenantimprovement space is also very
interesting, scott.
I think we've talked about itand I think you've done some TI.
But you know, man, like everybuilding in the TI space starts
as a mystery.
You know it's trying to dig inand figure out.
(19:50):
You know this building wasbuilt in 1930 and you know
multiple iterations ofcontractors have been in there
and like, what did they do?
What were they trying toachieve?
Why is this here?
Um, is is really a, a, a fun,uh and an enjoyable kind of gosh
like brain exercise, right, andand then not only how, how did
(20:11):
it get there?
Why is it there and how do weget it out?
Or what do we put in its place?
Um is that that's.
That's very enjoyable.
Dan Samson (20:21):
Yeah, I do.
I agree with you that it's kindof like it's a pass fail right.
There's no in between we eitherdelivered it or we didn't, and
obviously there's changes alongthe way and you have to be
flexible with that.
But it sounds like you knowyour, your story is really what
I'm trying to impress uponpeople.
That it's it's.
It's a fairly simple not simple, I shouldn't say it's a fairly
(20:42):
seamless transition, if you will, going from the service into
this industry and there's a,there's a role for everybody,
whether you are, you know, anops leader and now you're the
one planning it out, kind oflike a project manager would be,
or if you're the one runningthe troops in the field, like a
superintendent you know, no I100% agree.
So what was it?
I mean, you might've alreadyanswered this, basically, but
(21:05):
what was it that kind of keptyou on this track?
I mean, it seems like you justthe what you loved about the
Marine Corps and I don't want toput words in your mouth, but it
seems like what you loved aboutthe Marine Corps and just that
organization and the target goalis what you loved Is that kind
of what's kept you doing this orwhat made you realize.
When did you have that ahamoment of?
Okay, I think I found my spot.
Scott Friend (21:25):
Yeah, great, great question.
I would say the you know toaddress this kind of separately
that what I loved about theMarine Corps, you know, flying
it, flying a helicopter, isawesome.
Dan Samson (21:39):
In a word, I love that the thing that I humble
brag right.
We all want to be helicopterpilots.
That's awesome.
Scott Friend (21:48):
Yeah, I'm surprised we made it like two
minutes into the podcast beforeI said something about being a
helicopter pilot, those pilotsman, you know, the thing that I
loved about being in the MarineCorps was I took a lot of pride
in and really enjoyed being aMarine Corps, a Marine officer,
(22:14):
and I would tell people you knowwe would have.
You know, you've got a friendof a friend who's you know
cousin is thinking about youknow, joining the military
because they want to be a pilot.
And you know, one of the biggerquestions I had for them,
relatively routinely, is likewell, do you want to be, do you
want to be a pilot, or do you doyou want to be a Marine officer
that flies?
Cause, if you want to be aMarine officer that flies, you
(22:35):
should join the Marine Corps.
If you want to be a pilot, thenperhaps think about another
service.
You know the Marine Corps isvery good at impressing upon
their leaders that you knowyou're a Marine officer first
and then you know your, your,your identity as a pilot comes
second.
So I I love being being in thatrole and providing as much you
know, leadership and andmanagement and mentorship
(22:59):
realistically as a butter bar.
You shouldn't be mentoringanybody without any prior
service.
But you know, I, I, I enjoyedthat uh a lot.
The operational planning is,you know it was, was, was
certainly part of it.
You know, getting toconstruction, I, I, I agree with
you, I think I don't.
You know, I think thatconstruction AC I would say the,
(23:24):
the C in construction is iscertainly a soft, soft landing
pad for for veterans.
Right like you, you enter the,the environment, and it's not,
it's not the same song, but itrhymes um, yeah I get you,
you've got.
You know, the first time Istepped on a construction site I
(23:44):
was like, man, there's, youknow, there's all this stuff
going on and it doesn't makesense to me yet, but it's like a
flight line.
Like if I was to bring somebodyto a flight line they would
just be like, man, this is chaos, our helicopter's not running
into each other, and it's like,well, you know, it's because it
it because it's coordinated, andI recognize that, like gosh,
you know this, this, this isgoing to be.
(24:06):
I think this is right.
And then that that furthers, asyou kind of kind of go through
the process, you've got you know, as a, as a project manager,
you're doing a lot ofinterdisciplinary leadership and
management right.
You've got, especially whenyou're over the project as a
general contractor, you've gotyou know 10, 12, 20 trades that
(24:26):
you're, that you're managing atany given point, and that takes
a lot of awareness of your owninternal management style, own
internal leadership style aswell.
And that all mirrored what I hadexperienced in the military
when I left my last unit in themilitary.
(24:47):
I was our operations officerand military exercise planning,
et cetera.
It all has the same echoes inthe construction industry and
you know the constructionindustry is a people forward
business, it's a human businessand you know that's exactly what
the military is.
(25:07):
So, because they, they mashedand correlated I've, you know,
when you show up, you you feelalmost at home, like this is,
this is an environment that I'mcomfortable with.
Yes, we're doing something new,uh, that I haven't personally
experienced before, but, likeman, you know, like I, once I
get my feet underneath me,knowledge-wise, like you know,
(25:28):
the, the, the structure is, isalready existing.
Dan Samson (25:32):
Yeah, very good.
So, man, this is a loadedquestion, but I want your
opinion.
How do you think your servicecause you spent a fair amount of
time and you spent a decade inserving how how do you think
it's helped you the most in whatyou're doing now?
I mean, there's a lot ofcrossover, I would say,
especially with the PM side.
What do you think that reallysticks out to you Like?
(25:54):
Oh man, I remember doing thatin the Marine Corps.
Scott Friend (25:58):
I think it's kind of what we just talked about,
scott.
I think it's finding the rightblend of leadership and
management to, you know, to tomotivate, you know, an
interdisciplinary team whichsounds it sounds a little trite,
I guess, in a way, but but forthose that know and have seen it
(26:20):
done well before, like I, it'sa very specific, you know, it's
a very specific mindset.
You know, you've got.
You know, scott, I'm sureyou've experienced it.
Like, to me, in my mind,leadership and management are
two separate but very relatedthings.
You could have somebody that'sjust a rock star leader and just
(26:43):
a garbage manager and you canhave someone that's a rock star
manager and just a garbageleader.
And the best you know leadersin the military, the best NCOs,
staff, ncos and officers that Iexperienced were some
combination of those two things.
(27:03):
You start kind of exploring thespace, like you know.
I think that the it's a bit of amisnomer that that just because
you served in the military,that like yeah you're, you're
just going to knock theleadership and managerial stuff
out of the park.
I don't think that'snecessarily the case.
You know the military is, is anextension of the American
(27:24):
populace.
Um, you've, you've got great,good, bad, anything in between.
However, what the military doesa fantastic job of is exposing
you to leadership opportunitiesvery early on in life.
You know the construction spacedoes that as well.
And, if you can, for veterans,if you can recognize that and
(27:49):
hold true to the values thatmade you a successful leader or
manager or some combinationtherein, the things that made
you a great NCO or staff NCO inthe military world, like, yeah,
you're going into somethingpotentially that you haven't
done before, an industry that isslightly foreign to you.
(28:11):
However, the bones of your, youknow, leadership and managerial
style will, you know, carry youto success because you know, at
the end of the day,construction it's a very large,
you know, people-focused people,people forward environment.
It's based on relationships.
Um, and you know you, you haveto, you have to put a foot into
(28:37):
leadership and a foot intomanagement one way or another,
um to to motivate those teams inthe in the best possible way.
Dan Samson (28:43):
I think I need to reframe the way I asked some, I
guess, this question, but uh,not that you would you regret
anything necessarily, but alongyour journey, I mean, let's,
let's take a step back.
We talked about Clint a littlebit and then he kind of
encouraged you along yourjourney before you even went
into the Marine Corps.
Is that correct?
Scott Friend (29:01):
That's correct.
Dan Samson (29:02):
Yeah, certainly, so I'm curious about.
So let's talk about who Clintis, real quick and kind of how
he guided you, and then once you, kind of baby bird, flew the
nest if you will, and you wentoff on your own.
If there's anything along thatjourney.
Maybe you would have done alittle differently to get where
you're at now.
Scott Friend (29:19):
Yeah, so so Clint Bruce, I've known Clint for gosh
.
I think I was 14 or 15 yearsold when I when I met Clint, and
I'm 34 now, if that puts thatinto context.
Um, so Clint, uh, is anotherNaval Academy graduate.
Um, he graduated class of 94 or96, I think.
(29:40):
Um very successful middlelinebacker at the Naval Academy
uh, and then went on to have astint with the Baltimore Ravens.
Um, clint forgive me if I'mmessing any of this up Um, I
think Clint's Clint.
What is Clint's joke?
Uh, that he played.
Uh, his overlap at the Ravenswas with Ray Lewis, uh, so he
(30:03):
didn't see much playing time.
Dan Samson (30:05):
Right yeah.
Scott Friend (30:06):
I think he says something like he thought it was
going to be easier to be a NavySEAL, so he did.
Dan Samson (30:11):
Yeah, it was apparently.
Scott Friend (30:13):
he said yeah it was, and to beat Ray Lewis,
that's right.
So he became a Navy SEAL andthen left the teams in, I think,
the early 2000s, which is aboutthe time that, um, that uh, I I
started my mentorship, I guess,or he started mentoring me, um,
(30:34):
so there was a there was asmall um fellowship program that
that Clint ran for some of the,the offensive and defensive
linemen um, on our high schoolfootball team.
Clint ran that and that's whereyou know, uh, I'm meeting, you
know, a little bit of providencehere, like meeting another
Naval Academy guy feeling like,okay, well, you know, this is a
(30:55):
really good dude that went tothis school I keep hearing about
, I feel pretty, pretty set onthis course.
And and, clint, actually, whenI, when I got accepted to the
Naval Academy, clint, clint cameto my high school to kind of be
the guy that told me, oh cool.
So you know, clint providedsome fantastic guidance and
(31:19):
leadership, as he's done forjust you know, hordes of people
at this point.
And then when I was looking toget out of the military, I
linked back up with Clint andyou know he's pulled me in uh,
kind of kind of under the winghere and continue to to provide
guidance and you know this.
Next, in this next step, youknow, in terms of things that I
(31:42):
regret, you know.
You know there's to be honestwith you, scott, like going back
.
I wouldn't take any of it back.
I had a fantastic experience inthe Marine Corps.
I had a fantastic experience inthe Naval Academy.
I met just the greatest peoplethat you'd interact with.
(32:03):
I think my biggest learningmoment when you check into the
deployable squadrons is a is anew, second or first lieutenant,
you know 0102, you arequalified to.
You know sit in the seat andgenerally be a copilot and not
touch many buttons.
(32:24):
And then you kind of progressthrough a syllabus and you will
eventually become an instructor.
And then you kind of progressthrough a syllabus and you will
eventually become an instructor.
And you know, as I, as I becamean instructor, I realized I had
kind of thought for a while,like man, this you know, kind of
like instructor and leadershipthing comes like relatively
(32:44):
naturally to me.
Um, and it turned out that myuh instructor slash, leader
slash, just like general way Iacted in the aircraft, was, uh
was very off putting to people.
Dan Samson (32:57):
Um I was uh.
Scott Friend (32:58):
I know I was very, I was very particular about how
things went and I I got, youknow, relatively upset when they
, when they deviated outside ofof of the way that I wanted them
to go, and I really had to takea step back and and you know,
um, and and evaluate the waythat I was, that I was acting,
and the way that I was, you know, leading to a degree and the
(33:19):
way I was instructing and and Ithink that you know, I I turned
that around pretty well.
So, like, do I regret?
Uh, you know the way I acted inthose moments?
Um, yes, um.
However, you know the way Iacted in those moments, yes,
however, you know, I think thatit's made me a much, much calmer
person, I think, a much betterleader and teacher and
(33:40):
instructor.
You know I took some they werehard learned lessons to a degree
, but you know they wereincredibly valuable to a degree,
um, but you know they were,they were incredibly valuable,
all right.
Dan Samson (33:55):
So question about you know we we discussed a
little bit that part of thispodcast is trying to get people
from the military that areactively, you know, serving or
are veterans, and we know weneed people really bad Um, what
would you say to them to try toencourage them to get into the
industry?
Scott Friend (34:30):
You know, I think we've done a pretty good job of
kind of like outlining some ofthe similarities between the
military and how you cangenerally feel at inside the
industry.
I think it's important for guys, when they're looking to get
out, to be very introspective,to really evaluate the reasons
that they're getting out and youknow, if they're set on getting
out, that's great and they'vegot good reasons and awesome but
to also to really think aboutwhat that transition will bring
with it.
Right, and like a couple ofthings come, come to mind and
(34:52):
that's, you know, potential lossof purpose, potential loss of
mission, mission.
And then you know, loss of your, your social environment, like
this environment that you, thatyou have lived for, you know
four to 10 to potentially 20years, um, and, and the
construction industry is, is avery comfortable place, uh, to
(35:12):
land, in which you, you havethose things Like there's, there
is a purpose, there is amission, like it's very concrete
and you know every constructionproject, project, is, is a
mission and you can define foryourself a purpose inside.
You know whether that be atrade or construction management
, like you can, you can definethat, that personal purpose.
(35:35):
You know I'm, I'm, I'mredefining myself to, you know,
provide X type of life for myfamily.
And then you know I'm doingthat through the construction
industry because I feel that Ihave a mission and then my
purpose is to provide, you know,the best possible service I can
(35:56):
for, uh, for my in-statecustomer, um, and, and I think
that you can check those boxesrelatively easily.
You know, it's not, it's not asbig of a leap um, inside,
inside the construction space,and then just generally the
environment is, is incrediblyfamiliar.
Um, for for someone coming outof, for someone coming out of
(36:16):
the military, like even even theway that you know you speak,
like there's, there's it canpotentially be a little bit more
brusque, which I think youwould agree is, you know, very
similar to to the way peopletalk in the military.
Um, it's full of acronyms, uh,there's.
(36:36):
You know, a fairly good chancethat you know what 70% of those
acronyms mean, but youdefinitely know what it is, um,
you just may not know exactlywhat the letters stand for.
You know it's, it's, it is,it's a comfortable environment,
like, like I've said before,it's a, it's a soft landing pad.
Dan Samson (36:49):
Yeah, Very good way to put it.
Um, so I got to ask I like todiscuss mental health on here
too.
Yeah, Um, it's an issue that weface in the service, obviously,
and it's it.
I think it's understated abouthow big of an issue it is in our
environment, in this industry.
Um, I mean, there's long hours.
Um, I've man, I'll be honest,it's pretty depressing to be
(37:11):
away from your family.
So if we've got vets, it justcompounds being a veteran.
So if we've got folks out therelistening that are in the
industry as vets or anybody forthat matter, that's just kind of
going through the muck.
What would you say to them?
Scott Friend (37:50):
Yeah, I think it goes back to being introspective
is you lose your friends?
Right, but friends is like not,it's not a sufficient enough
explanation of what those peopleare to you, right, like you,
you, you spend all of your timewith them, even the time that
(38:11):
you're not at work you'respending with them and you, you
potentially deployed with them.
Um, like you, you trust themimplicitly.
Um, and one of the things thatthat that I've seen is that
people underestimate how, how,and we're used to communicating
(38:37):
with those people.
You know, somebody told me likethis is you have to stop
thinking of friends like you're.
You know, like your friends fromyour old job, like those were
more than that, they were familymembers or maybe even slightly
(38:57):
different.
You're used to communicatingwith them with a 0% social
filter, and not only was thatcommonplace, it was kind of beat
into you and nobody trustedsomebody that communicated like
hid 10% of their thoughts.
You may not completelyverbalize everything that you're
thinking, but when you do that,better be 100 percent of what
(39:20):
you're thinking, and when youlose that, you lose a bit of an
outlet, you lose commonality andand that's it's unfortunate.
Not only is it unfortunate, Ithink it could be contributory
to to the way that guys are.
Guys are feeling now in the, inthe military, where that was,
(39:44):
uh, you know, provided for you.
I want to say artificially, butlike you were kind of forced
into it, right.
Yeah, yeah, when you're on anine month deployment together,
you, you learn each other prettyquick, exactly In the when,
when you leave the military andyou enter another industry, then
that is not necessarilyprovided to you.
(40:05):
It's something that you have toexhibit some forward action
into setting for yourself, andthat takes some effort and it's
difficult, um, but you know it's, it's something that that,
frankly, I identified, uh, whenI left the service.
(40:27):
Um is, you know, man, I, I needto, I need to, I need to have
that outlet somehow.
Um, and you know I, I had abuddy that left, uh, left the
Marine Corps.
Um, maybe two months after mehe ended up moving to Dallas.
Uh, we get together relativelyfrequently and and I've got a
(40:48):
couple other guys, um, you knowSpencer, uh, pain, who you've
met, um, who you know I link upwith, and, and, and they're
there, that outlet, and thatoutlet doesn't necessarily have
to be.
You know I link up with and,and, and they're, they're that
outlet, and that outlet doesn'tnecessarily have to be.
You know, uh, you know somethingsuper heavy socially.
It can be like, hey, let's justcheck in on each other, like,
(41:09):
let's, let's, uh, you know, uh,you know, talk with our hands
and tell helicopter stories and,you know, relive, you know, x,
y and Z memory and I, and Ithink that that's a good, you
know, social reset, like that'sa that's, that's good for us.
It's something that that we, weused to get on a daily basis,
um, or monthly basis, you know,on a deployment, um, but, but,
(41:34):
but it's, it's stripped from us,not, you know, it's our own
decision when we leave, like,but it's something that that I
didn't identify, something Iwish I would have identified,
that that I was going to miss um, and I think it's something
that you can do proactively.
Now you know that that is somuch easier said than done, um,
(41:56):
but all that to say thoseorganizations, those, those
groups, you know they, they doexist.
Like what you're, what you'redoing with Memorial Ranch.
You know, like the, the, thebullets and bourbon, that that's
run by Clint Bruce, theseorganizations exist, these
opportunities exist.
They're difficult or moredifficult to find than they,
than when they were just kind ofartificially presented to you,
(42:19):
uh, by way of you know, uh,somebody writing you PCS orders
for three years.
Dan Samson (42:25):
Right, yeah, I appreciate you sharing that man.
Yeah, well, dan, I'm going togo ahead and wrap up here.
Scott Friend (42:32):
Uh.
Dan Samson (42:32):
I just want to say, man, it's been really nice
getting to know you over thelast shoot.
We probably met a year and ahalf ago, maybe something like
that.
So I really appreciate it, dan,um, and you got a really cool
story.
I mean, you've got a reallynice uh, I don't want to say
seamless, but it's been a goodtransition for you, um, because
you haven't been out too long.
(42:53):
You know we're talking lessthan five years, right?
Yeah, I mean we're um, I thinkit'll be two years here in just
a couple months.
Yeah, so it's been reallyencouraging when I see guys like
you that get out and justflourish.
This has been great.
So if anybody wants to get ahold of you, what would be the
best way?
Scott Friend (43:11):
I think, um, you know, I'm connected with you on
linkedin.
Um, it's just, you know, dansamson, you know, feel free to
connect with me there and I'dlove to hop on a call or just
exchange emails.
You know, if you're in DFW,please feel free to reach out,
and especially those that arelooking to transition out of the
(43:33):
military, like, please, please,let me know.
This is all still relativelyfresh on my mind.
I've taken notes, uh, I've,I've got some, some things that
I that I think would wouldbenefit.
But, scott, you know, I reallyappreciate you.
Having me on this has been agreat opportunity.
You're, you're, you're awonderful human being and just
and just an excellent friend.
Um, I, I really appreciateeverything that you're doing for
(43:56):
this community.
I think this is awesome and andthank you very much.
Dan Samson (44:00):
Thanks, man, I appreciate that and I want to
say real quick too, I like thefact that you asked people just
let me give give me 30 minutesof your time.
I think that's smart, soanybody can spare that at some
point.
Scott Friend (44:10):
So yeah, All right man.
Dan Samson (44:12):
Well, dan, thanks again, man, I really appreciate
it.
Scott Friend (44:15):
Yeah, of course, scott, thank you.
Dan Samson (44:17):
All right.
every construction project.
Project is is a mission and youcan define for yourself a
purpose this is the constructionveteran podcast, connecting and
celebrating veterans inconstruction.
Dan Samson (00:24):
Now.
Now, here's your host, scottFriend.
Welcome back to theConstruction Veteran Podcast.
I'm Scott Friend and I amstoked to bring you guys my
friend Dan Sampson, a formerMarine Corps helicopter pilot
and current project manager inthe construction industry.
Let's dig into it.
Manager in the constructionindustry.
Scott Friend (00:50):
Let's dig into it.
Dan Samson (00:53):
Hey Dan, what's going on man?
Hey Scott, how are you?
I'm very good.
I'm glad to have you on.
So Dan and I met at a monthlyevent here in the Dallas area
called Bullets and Bourbon, ranby a former SEAL officer named
Clint Bruce, which is actuallyan old friend of Dan.
We'll get into that here in alittle bit.
So, dan, I want to first divein and talk about where you're
from and what you did in theservice.
Scott Friend (01:13):
Yeah, no, absolutely, and Scott, thanks
for having me on.
Yeah, my name is Dan Sampson.
I grew up here in Dallas, texas, graduated high school in 2008,
and then went to the NavalAcademy, graduated there in 2012
and then spent 10 years in theMarine Corps where I was a UH-1
(01:37):
Yankee helicopter pilot, wrappedup my active duty time towards
the latter part of 2022.
Wrapped up my active duty timetowards the latter part of 2022.
And then came on board withArco Murray, my current company,
which is a national generalcontractor focusing in design,
build construction.
Dan Samson (01:59):
And I work as a project manager.
So, dan, I got to ask when yougo to the academy so most people
might know but not everybodyknows you have the opportunity
to go become a naval officer orMarine Corps officer.
What was the decision on yourpart why you went Marine Corps?
Scott Friend (02:11):
So I had actually known that I wanted to be a
Marine for quite some time, sokind of like fifth or sixth
grade and I'm not.
I've tried to trace this back acouple of times and I'm not
entirely sure how I arrived onthe Marine Corps Some
combination of like a prettyserious Marine Corps recruiting
effort, I'm sure, and then alsokind of the esprit de corps
(02:35):
that's associated to the MarineCorps.
I think that was around thetime that the guy in his dress
blues, you know, killing adragon with a sword, that
commercial came out.
Dan Samson (02:44):
Oh yeah, if you came out, oh yeah.
Scott Friend (02:45):
If you're familiar .
I probably probably got itshooks into me pretty good, Um,
so that had been, you know, afocus of mine for quite some
time.
Um, and then in, you know, inmiddle school, I, I struggled
academically and ended up with a, uh, with a tutor for math who
had attended the Naval Academyand I kind of heard some stories
(03:08):
and was like man, that soundsreally cool.
And then, um, between my eighthgrade year and freshman year of
high school, uh, I ended upgetting to go visit the Naval
Academy for about a week, um,during graduation week, which uh
, is is quite the event and kindof gets you, gets you pretty
fired up about it.
Um, and I was like um, duringgraduation week, which uh, is is
quite the event and kind ofgets you gets you pretty fired
up about it.
Um, and I was like man, youknow, you can go to this really
(03:31):
cool college and, um, and go bea Marine too.
That sounds, you know, kind ofkind of like the the choice for
me.
So I was, you know, I waspretty dead set on that starting
, starting in high school, uh,but the Marine Corps, you know,
substantially before that, uh, Ithink it was, you know, like I
said, the, the esprit de corpsand kind of the few, the proud
(03:52):
um aspect of that you knowwhether, whether warranted or
not at the time for a, for ayoung 11 year old was was pretty
motivating.
Dan Samson (04:01):
Oh cool.
So you thought you were goingto be slaying dragons and dress
blues.
Scott Friend (04:05):
Uh, that's correct .
Um, I, yeah I, I did not get todo that.
Um.
I know it was a bummer, um, butyeah, no, the Marine Corps
career was, you know, wasawesome and and you know that
that esprit de corps was wasobviously on on display and and
was where I belonged, I think so, uh, it all, it all worked out
(04:28):
for the best.
But, yeah, no, no dragons,never saw a dragon.
Dan Samson (04:32):
Very cool.
So, uh, you mentioned you're aproject manager, and so, uh,
tell me what is a projectmanager?
Uh, if people don't know,really in the construction side,
what you do, what would you sayis like a typical day to day.
Scott Friend (04:44):
Yeah, I think so.
So generally, and you know, forthose veterans that are,
they're looking to the AECindustry, you've got, you know,
generally, like two hemispheresof a construction project and
you know they're they'renominally called the field in
the office.
Your, your superintendent,which, scott, you're uh
(05:04):
intimately familiar with thatrole um is basically running
things uh in the field and yourproject manager is have a pretty
uh pretty wide breadth ofresponsibilities.
Uh, and that can, that canrange from, you know, any any
(05:33):
part of a construction uhproject.
So uh, like my, my militarybrain wants to call that the
left and right side of aconstruction process, progress
project Um, but anything from uhestimating to uh to getting
into the actual weeds of of aconstruction project, so um,
(05:54):
managing contracts with, withowners, managing subcontracts
with.
You know, your your different uhtrade teams, um dealing with
things as they come up on siteto provide as much
administrative support as youpossibly can.
And then sometimes you knowbeing a sounding board for your
superintendent to bounce someideas off or providing your own
(06:18):
directional ideas to you know,project closeout, where you're
managing the punch list andensuring that you know you've
got a satisfied and happy clientat the end of the project.
So a good amount ofadministrative support, a lot of
managerial aspects to that job,and then, at the end of the day
, you're providing as muchleadership as you think that you
(06:41):
can or is deemed appropriatefor a project.
As you think that you can or isdeemed appropriate for a
project is something that goes along way in motivating a team,
is understanding that theproject manager that is behind
the desk is not always behindthe desk and is on site, and
it's tough to be mad at someonewhen you actually know them by
(07:01):
name and by face.
Dan Samson (07:04):
Yeah, very well said , man.
So, um, I think there's acommon misconception that, like,
the superintendent works forthe PM, or vice versa.
Certainly, um, how would youdescribe that relationship, I
think?
Scott Friend (07:16):
one of the the best ways to answer that
question, especially with withthe audience that we have here,
um with with veterans that arelooking at the AAC industry, is
like on my on my second day atat Arco I, I, uh, I actually
spent all day on site with asuperintendent um on a, on a
(07:37):
project that was probably callit 60% complete or so.
Um prior to this and Scott, youdid, you did a great job of
digging into my background herebut I was a Marine helicopter
pilot.
It's not the CVs, we weren'tconstructing things.
(07:58):
In fact, if they saw pilotswith tools, they usually told us
to put them down, which I thinkis fair.
With tools, they usually toldus to put them down, which I
think is fair.
But you know, I walked on thisconstruction site day two and I
started talking about thesuperintendent and I at the time
was generally unfamiliar withthe roles of what a
(08:19):
superintendent was and what aproject manager was, and you
know how those roles kind ofinterfaced and I started to, I
sat down with the superintendentand I basically just asked like
, hey, if you could, if youcould build your perfect project
manager, you know what?
What would this project managerlook like Um, good question,
thank you.
And he started to describe umbasically like someone that
(08:43):
would support, like theadministrative functionalities
of a superintendent and of thelike the project in general.
And as he was describing this, Iwas thinking in the back of my
head and it's not exactly.
You know, scott, to your point,like the superintendent is not
working for the project manager.
The project manager andsuperintendent are working hand
(09:03):
in hand, um, but I, I I wasreminded of like echoes of a,
you know, staff and CO and likejunior officer uh relationship.
Like specifically, the goodones, right, the, the, the
junior officers that are not uh,pointing at the shiny stuff on
their collar and saying, likewe're going to do this because
(09:24):
you know, I went to college andthat's what I said.
Um, and the staff and CEOs thatare willing to provide some
left and right, you know laterallimits for for their officers
to support, like, at the end ofthe day, a good officer.
You know, as much as we don'tlike to believe it is not a
trigger puller, right, likewe're not a trigger puller,
(09:46):
we're not the tactical arm, weare setting conditions for our
trigger pullers to succeed.
And I think of that verysimilarly with a project manager
and a superintendent.
You know your subject matterexpert.
They're the.
You know SME, if we want to useacronyms, but, um, the project
(10:09):
manager exists during the courseof construction to set
conditions for thesuperintendent and for the field
team to succeed, um, and whenyou know you have two people
that are operating with thatrelationship in mind, I think
that the project is, is bound tosucceed.
Um, when those two roles andresponsibilities get reversed.
(10:31):
I mean you, you, scott, you sawit in the, in the military all
the time, and you know I'm, I'monly using that cause.
You know that's that's, I spent10 years there.
Um, that's when, when thingsstart to you know, quote unquote
come off the rails a little bit.
Um, and hopefully that kind ofkind of summates what I, what I
think about that relationship.
Dan Samson (10:52):
Yeah, no, that's good, and I appreciate that you
took the time to ask thatquestion as well, because I
think there's a lot there.
A lot of different companieswill have that animosity between
the field and the office.
It's this well they don't knowwhat they're doing, and it it
goes both ways.
But when you kind of dig intoeach other's world a little bit,
you realize yeah well, I'm notreally doing what I need to do
to support this guy, and viceversa.
(11:13):
So I appreciate you doing thatwith your super yeah, no,
absolutely.
Scott Friend (11:22):
I mean I think it's the superintendent, is the
stake that a constructionproject rides on and a good
project manager andsuperintendent are going to work
hand in hand and the officerstaff and CO hopefully that
doesn hand.
And you know the the officerstaff and CO like, uh, hopefully
that doesn't come across in thewrong way, like that's those,
those symbiotic relationships.
You know the the staff and COis is not working for the
officer I, you know, as anofficer I I really did not like
(11:47):
that, that type of relationshipit's.
It's two people working on the,you know, on the same level,
one is working to support thelike the actual, you know,
trigger pulling functionalitiesof the other um and and support
them in the best way they canset conditions for for success.
You know, for your quote,unquote, trigger pullers.
Dan Samson (12:08):
Yeah, that's good.
I'll share a quick story.
I don't know if I've shared iton the post before, but know or
the podcast before.
I know I've told some friends.
But uh, when I went back in andI commissioned into the army
reserves, we went out to thefield and I had another butter
bar with me at the time and hehad no prior service and the
command sergeant major wanted usto wear our gear basically as
soon as we stepped out of thetent.
(12:28):
And this is blazing hot outsidehe's like I don't.
Why do we have to do this?
This is goofy, and can't I tellhim I'm not going to do that,
Cause I'm an officer?
I said, well, maybe on paper,but he's going to turn around
and go to the battalioncommander and say you need to
fix that officer.
Scott Friend (12:43):
That's exactly right yeah.
Dan Samson (12:45):
Yeah, I kind of know your role type deal, so, um,
all right, so let me, let mechange here a little bit, change
it up.
Um, what was it?
Scott Friend (12:58):
Because you went from being a helicopter pilot
and now you're in construction.
How did that happen?
Yeah, so um, probably a longeranswer here than you're looking
for, but um, no man the floor isyours around the.
So you know.
So for me, I reached the 10year mark and you know that's
that's about the time whereeverybody's deciding is it, is
it?
It's kind of like your lastchance, like, is it time to
(13:20):
leave or are you going to rideit out for another 10 years?
My wife and I had had a bunchof conversations.
My wife is absolutely wonderfuland supported, you know, at the
end of the day she was, she wasvery frank and said you know,
this is, this is your decisionto make.
Um, you know you lead ourfamily in the way that you, that
you feel is is the right way.
(13:42):
Um, I, I asked myself somepretty, some pretty in-depth
questions, uh, to arrive at thesolution that you know it was,
it was it was time to forgivethe aviation pun but punch out
that.
You know it was, it was, it wastime to forgive the aviation
pun but punch out.
Um, and before I, before I madethat, that decision, um, it or
(14:04):
kind of like in concert withthat decision, I, I started
getting very aggressive, uh, on,you know quote unquote
networking.
Um and it's relatively tough todo when you're, when you're
insulated.
You know, quote unquotenetworking, um, and it's
relatively tough to do whenyou're, when you're insulated,
you know, on whatever militarybase you're, you're at because I
would be willing to bet there'sa, there's a fairly good chance
that that location isgeographically disparate from
where you eventually want to endup.
(14:25):
Um, so I, I, I started, uh, andyou know, scott, we talked
about it.
I, I had wanted to be a Marinesince I was in fifth grade.
Um, and Scott, we talked aboutit.
I had wanted to be a Marinesince I was in fifth grade and
then get to the end of a 10-yearcareer.
I'm 32 years old, I've got awife and a kid and I have to
decide what I want to do when Igrow up, which is a tough
decision to arrive at.
(14:45):
So I started digging into justcompanies that I'd heard of, you
know, professions that I justlike generally had heard of.
I leveraged LinkedIn in apretty big way and it's
something that I would advocatefor for veterans that are
looking to get out.
You can get a LinkedIn premiumaccount for a 12 month time
(15:08):
period for free if you're amilitary active duty member or a
veteran, if you haven't done itpreviously.
And I would look into companiesand industries and I would
search for someone that hadsomething in common with me.
So three things generally cometo mind.
And I was a Naval Academygraduate.
That network's relativelystrong.
(15:28):
I was a Marine and then I aMarine and then I was a
helicopter pilot, um, so I wouldlook for someone in that
company or industry that hadsomething similar with me in
common.
So once I found that person, Iwould send them a message and
ask for 30 minutes of their time, um to hop on a call and just
(15:50):
hear their story, hear how thetransition went, how they
decided on the industry theywere in Um and that that
informed um.
It just gave me like a generalbackground for for how guys were
, you know, arriving in certainindustries?
Um, around that time period Iactually got connected to one of
the uh the partners at mycurrent company, um, via a
(16:12):
friend from high school.
Um, you know he, we were.
We happened to be at a weddinguh together and you know he kind
of looked across the table.
It was like hey, have you everthought about project management
?
And you know Scott staff andCOs officers, like that's kind
of like the go-to move for usgetting out and it was like the
first thing you think of isproject management.
Um, and I like the go-to movefor us now and it was like the
(16:32):
first thing you think of isproject management and I was
like yeah, absolutely.
And he said that he wanted toconnect me with with, with one
of our you know, one of one ofour partners.
We hopped on a call and I didsome quick research on you know
Arco Murray and what they did.
I come to some.
(16:53):
A decent amount of my family isin the construction industry, so
I have some peripheralknowledge of it, not not very
in-depth but but but peripheral.
Um, I think the thing thatimpressed me the most, actually,
uh or or kind of like stuckwith me the most is I.
I probably I had two or threecalls with with different people
(17:15):
in leadership positions at theARCO Dallas office and you know
I was immensely impressed withwith how forthcoming and
intelligent and you know thequestions that they were asking
they were just it was like man,this.
This feels to me a lot like,you know, a ready room feels or
(17:36):
a squadron feels, where, whereyou've got you know smart people
that are, that are driven andconfident in themselves.
And I was like you know, gosh,you know I'm looking for kind of
a softer landing pad here, youknow, recognizing that I was
going to lose some of thatenvironment as I left the
military, kind of, as thoseinterviews progressed like I
(17:59):
never lost that feeling, ifanything, it compounded.
And then I ended up gettingoffered a position and you know
I didn't look back from there.
For me it was, I was actuallydrawn by the social environment
of the company that I work at.
Once we got into and I gotexposed to the construction
(18:21):
industry and I'm on our tenantsolutions team.
Industry term is tenantimprovement.
Generally it's existingrenovations of existing
structures.
Man, I loved it, it was it andhave loved it it's.
You know, a construction projectgenerally mirrors the
operational planning cycle ofthe military in a sense of you
(18:45):
know you've got a definedobjective and you backwards plan
.
You know, I know, on a previouspodcast, you, you, you know
mentioned some lean planningprinciples and it, you know it's
this you've got this definedobjective, backwards plan from
the defined objective in orderto to arrive at your end state.
And it, you know, a lot oftimes in the military.
You've got this relativelynebulous end state of like.
(19:05):
Well, you know we'll capture inseas and you know whatever the,
the, you know verbiage is there, but you know it's hard to be.
You know more concrete andbuilding, you know, or like
there's, this is, this is howwe're going to, this is, this is
what we're going to do at theat the end of the day, like,
this is 100% of the productwe're looking to turn over to
(19:27):
the client and I, I, I enjoythat type of planning.
And then, you know, the tenantimprovement space is also very
interesting, scott.
I think we've talked about itand I think you've done some TI.
But you know, man, like everybuilding in the TI space starts
as a mystery.
You know it's trying to dig inand figure out.
(19:50):
You know this building wasbuilt in 1930 and you know
multiple iterations ofcontractors have been in there
and like, what did they do?
What were they trying toachieve?
Why is this here?
Um, is is really a, a, a fun,uh and an enjoyable kind of gosh
like brain exercise, right, andand then not only how, how did
(20:11):
it get there?
Why is it there and how do weget it out?
Or what do we put in its place?
Um is that that's.
That's very enjoyable.
Dan Samson (20:21):
Yeah, I do.
I agree with you that it's kindof like it's a pass fail right.
There's no in between we eitherdelivered it or we didn't, and
obviously there's changes alongthe way and you have to be
flexible with that.
But it sounds like you knowyour, your story is really what
I'm trying to impress uponpeople.
That it's it's.
It's a fairly simple not simple, I shouldn't say it's a fairly
(20:42):
seamless transition, if you will, going from the service into
this industry and there's a,there's a role for everybody,
whether you are, you know, anops leader and now you're the
one planning it out, kind oflike a project manager would be,
or if you're the one runningthe troops in the field, like a
superintendent you know, no I100% agree.
So what was it?
I mean, you might've alreadyanswered this, basically, but
(21:05):
what was it that kind of keptyou on this track?
I mean, it seems like you justthe what you loved about the
Marine Corps and I don't want toput words in your mouth, but it
seems like what you loved aboutthe Marine Corps and just that
organization and the target goalis what you loved Is that kind
of what's kept you doing this orwhat made you realize.
When did you have that ahamoment of?
Okay, I think I found my spot.
Scott Friend (21:25):
Yeah, great, great question.
I would say the you know toaddress this kind of separately
that what I loved about theMarine Corps, you know, flying
it, flying a helicopter, isawesome.
Dan Samson (21:39):
In a word, I love that the thing that I humble
brag right.
We all want to be helicopterpilots.
That's awesome.
Scott Friend (21:48):
Yeah, I'm surprised we made it like two
minutes into the podcast beforeI said something about being a
helicopter pilot, those pilotsman, you know, the thing that I
loved about being in the MarineCorps was I took a lot of pride
in and really enjoyed being aMarine Corps, a Marine officer,
(22:14):
and I would tell people you knowwe would have.
You know, you've got a friendof a friend who's you know
cousin is thinking about youknow, joining the military
because they want to be a pilot.
And you know, one of the biggerquestions I had for them,
relatively routinely, is likewell, do you want to be, do you
want to be a pilot, or do you doyou want to be a Marine officer
that flies?
Cause, if you want to be aMarine officer that flies, you
(22:35):
should join the Marine Corps.
If you want to be a pilot, thenperhaps think about another
service.
You know the Marine Corps isvery good at impressing upon
their leaders that you knowyou're a Marine officer first
and then you know your, your,your identity as a pilot comes
second.
So I I love being being in thatrole and providing as much you
know, leadership and andmanagement and mentorship
(22:59):
realistically as a butter bar.
You shouldn't be mentoringanybody without any prior
service.
But you know, I, I, I enjoyedthat uh a lot.
The operational planning is,you know it was, was, was
certainly part of it.
You know, getting toconstruction, I, I, I agree with
you, I think I don't.
You know, I think thatconstruction AC I would say the,
(23:24):
the C in construction is iscertainly a soft, soft landing
pad for for veterans.
Right like you, you enter the,the environment, and it's not,
it's not the same song, but itrhymes um, yeah I get you,
you've got.
You know, the first time Istepped on a construction site I
(23:44):
was like, man, there's, youknow, there's all this stuff
going on and it doesn't makesense to me yet, but it's like a
flight line.
Like if I was to bring somebodyto a flight line they would
just be like, man, this is chaos, our helicopter's not running
into each other, and it's like,well, you know, it's because it
it because it's coordinated, andI recognize that, like gosh,
you know this, this, this isgoing to be.
(24:06):
I think this is right.
And then that that furthers, asyou kind of kind of go through
the process, you've got you know, as a, as a project manager,
you're doing a lot ofinterdisciplinary leadership and
management right.
You've got, especially whenyou're over the project as a
general contractor, you've gotyou know 10, 12, 20 trades that
(24:26):
you're, that you're managing atany given point, and that takes
a lot of awareness of your owninternal management style, own
internal leadership style aswell.
And that all mirrored what I hadexperienced in the military
when I left my last unit in themilitary.
(24:47):
I was our operations officerand military exercise planning,
et cetera.
It all has the same echoes inthe construction industry and
you know the constructionindustry is a people forward
business, it's a human businessand you know that's exactly what
the military is.
(25:07):
So, because they, they mashedand correlated I've, you know,
when you show up, you you feelalmost at home, like this is,
this is an environment that I'mcomfortable with.
Yes, we're doing something new,uh, that I haven't personally
experienced before, but, likeman, you know, like I, once I
get my feet underneath me,knowledge-wise, like you know,
(25:28):
the, the, the structure is, isalready existing.
Dan Samson (25:32):
Yeah, very good.
So, man, this is a loadedquestion, but I want your
opinion.
How do you think your servicecause you spent a fair amount of
time and you spent a decade inserving how how do you think
it's helped you the most in whatyou're doing now?
I mean, there's a lot ofcrossover, I would say,
especially with the PM side.
What do you think that reallysticks out to you Like?
(25:54):
Oh man, I remember doing thatin the Marine Corps.
Scott Friend (25:58):
I think it's kind of what we just talked about,
scott.
I think it's finding the rightblend of leadership and
management to, you know, to tomotivate, you know, an
interdisciplinary team whichsounds it sounds a little trite,
I guess, in a way, but but forthose that know and have seen it
(26:20):
done well before, like I, it'sa very specific, you know, it's
a very specific mindset.
You know, you've got.
You know, scott, I'm sureyou've experienced it.
Like, to me, in my mind,leadership and management are
two separate but very relatedthings.
You could have somebody that'sjust a rock star leader and just
(26:43):
a garbage manager and you canhave someone that's a rock star
manager and just a garbageleader.
And the best you know leadersin the military, the best NCOs,
staff, ncos and officers that Iexperienced were some
combination of those two things.
(27:03):
You start kind of exploring thespace, like you know.
I think that the it's a bit of amisnomer that that just because
you served in the military,that like yeah you're, you're
just going to knock theleadership and managerial stuff
out of the park.
I don't think that'snecessarily the case.
You know the military is, is anextension of the American
(27:24):
populace.
Um, you've, you've got great,good, bad, anything in between.
However, what the military doesa fantastic job of is exposing
you to leadership opportunitiesvery early on in life.
You know the construction spacedoes that as well.
And, if you can, for veterans,if you can recognize that and
(27:49):
hold true to the values thatmade you a successful leader or
manager or some combinationtherein, the things that made
you a great NCO or staff NCO inthe military world, like, yeah,
you're going into somethingpotentially that you haven't
done before, an industry that isslightly foreign to you.
(28:11):
However, the bones of your, youknow, leadership and managerial
style will, you know, carry youto success because you know, at
the end of the day,construction it's a very large,
you know, people-focused people,people forward environment.
It's based on relationships.
Um, and you know you, you haveto, you have to put a foot into
(28:37):
leadership and a foot intomanagement one way or another,
um to to motivate those teams inthe in the best possible way.
Dan Samson (28:43):
I think I need to reframe the way I asked some, I
guess, this question, but uh,not that you would you regret
anything necessarily, but alongyour journey, I mean, let's,
let's take a step back.
We talked about Clint a littlebit and then he kind of
encouraged you along yourjourney before you even went
into the Marine Corps.
Is that correct?
Scott Friend (29:01):
That's correct.
Dan Samson (29:02):
Yeah, certainly, so I'm curious about.
So let's talk about who Clintis, real quick and kind of how
he guided you, and then once you, kind of baby bird, flew the
nest if you will, and you wentoff on your own.
If there's anything along thatjourney.
Maybe you would have done alittle differently to get where
you're at now.
Scott Friend (29:19):
Yeah, so so Clint Bruce, I've known Clint for gosh
.
I think I was 14 or 15 yearsold when I when I met Clint, and
I'm 34 now, if that puts thatinto context.
Um, so Clint, uh, is anotherNaval Academy graduate.
Um, he graduated class of 94 or96, I think.
(29:40):
Um very successful middlelinebacker at the Naval Academy
uh, and then went on to have astint with the Baltimore Ravens.
Um, clint forgive me if I'mmessing any of this up Um, I
think Clint's Clint.
What is Clint's joke?
Uh, that he played.
Uh, his overlap at the Ravenswas with Ray Lewis, uh, so he
(30:03):
didn't see much playing time.
Dan Samson (30:05):
Right yeah.
Scott Friend (30:06):
I think he says something like he thought it was
going to be easier to be a NavySEAL, so he did.
Dan Samson (30:11):
Yeah, it was apparently.
Scott Friend (30:13):
he said yeah it was, and to beat Ray Lewis,
that's right.
So he became a Navy SEAL andthen left the teams in, I think,
the early 2000s, which is aboutthe time that, um, that uh, I I
started my mentorship, I guess,or he started mentoring me, um,
(30:34):
so there was a there was asmall um fellowship program that
that Clint ran for some of the,the offensive and defensive
linemen um, on our high schoolfootball team.
Clint ran that and that's whereyou know, uh, I'm meeting, you
know, a little bit of providencehere, like meeting another
Naval Academy guy feeling like,okay, well, you know, this is a
(30:55):
really good dude that went tothis school I keep hearing about
, I feel pretty, pretty set onthis course.
And and, clint, actually, whenI, when I got accepted to the
Naval Academy, clint, clint cameto my high school to kind of be
the guy that told me, oh cool.
So you know, clint providedsome fantastic guidance and
(31:19):
leadership, as he's done forjust you know, hordes of people
at this point.
And then when I was looking toget out of the military, I
linked back up with Clint andyou know he's pulled me in uh,
kind of kind of under the winghere and continue to to provide
guidance and you know this.
Next, in this next step, youknow, in terms of things that I
(31:42):
regret, you know.
You know there's to be honestwith you, scott, like going back
.
I wouldn't take any of it back.
I had a fantastic experience inthe Marine Corps.
I had a fantastic experience inthe Naval Academy.
I met just the greatest peoplethat you'd interact with.
(32:03):
I think my biggest learningmoment when you check into the
deployable squadrons is a is anew, second or first lieutenant,
you know 0102, you arequalified to.
You know sit in the seat andgenerally be a copilot and not
touch many buttons.
(32:24):
And then you kind of progressthrough a syllabus and you will
eventually become an instructor.
And then you kind of progressthrough a syllabus and you will
eventually become an instructor.
And you know, as I, as I becamean instructor, I realized I had
kind of thought for a while,like man, this you know, kind of
like instructor and leadershipthing comes like relatively
(32:44):
naturally to me.
Um, and it turned out that myuh instructor slash, leader
slash, just like general way Iacted in the aircraft, was, uh
was very off putting to people.
Dan Samson (32:57):
Um I was uh.
Scott Friend (32:58):
I know I was very, I was very particular about how
things went and I I got, youknow, relatively upset when they
, when they deviated outside ofof of the way that I wanted them
to go, and I really had to takea step back and and you know,
um, and and evaluate the waythat I was, that I was acting,
and the way that I was, you know, leading to a degree and the
(33:19):
way I was instructing and and Ithink that you know, I I turned
that around pretty well.
So, like, do I regret?
Uh, you know the way I acted inthose moments?
Um, yes, um.
However, you know the way Iacted in those moments, yes,
however, you know, I think thatit's made me a much, much calmer
person, I think, a much betterleader and teacher and
(33:40):
instructor.
You know I took some they werehard learned lessons to a degree
, but you know they wereincredibly valuable to a degree,
um, but you know they were,they were incredibly valuable,
all right.
Dan Samson (33:55):
So question about you know we we discussed a
little bit that part of thispodcast is trying to get people
from the military that areactively, you know, serving or
are veterans, and we know weneed people really bad Um, what
would you say to them to try toencourage them to get into the
industry?
Scott Friend (34:30):
You know, I think we've done a pretty good job of
kind of like outlining some ofthe similarities between the
military and how you cangenerally feel at inside the
industry.
I think it's important for guys, when they're looking to get
out, to be very introspective,to really evaluate the reasons
that they're getting out and youknow, if they're set on getting
out, that's great and they'vegot good reasons and awesome but
to also to really think aboutwhat that transition will bring
with it.
Right, and like a couple ofthings come, come to mind and
(34:52):
that's, you know, potential lossof purpose, potential loss of
mission, mission.
And then you know, loss of your, your social environment, like
this environment that you, thatyou have lived for, you know
four to 10 to potentially 20years, um, and, and the
construction industry is, is avery comfortable place, uh, to
(35:12):
land, in which you, you havethose things Like there's, there
is a purpose, there is amission, like it's very concrete
and you know every constructionproject, project, is, is a
mission and you can define foryourself a purpose inside.
You know whether that be atrade or construction management
, like you can, you can definethat, that personal purpose.
(35:35):
You know I'm, I'm, I'mredefining myself to, you know,
provide X type of life for myfamily.
And then you know I'm doingthat through the construction
industry because I feel that Ihave a mission and then my
purpose is to provide, you know,the best possible service I can
(35:56):
for, uh, for my in-statecustomer, um, and, and I think
that you can check those boxesrelatively easily.
You know, it's not, it's not asbig of a leap um, inside,
inside the construction space,and then just generally the
environment is, is incrediblyfamiliar.
Um, for for someone coming outof, for someone coming out of
(36:16):
the military, like even even theway that you know you speak,
like there's, there's it canpotentially be a little bit more
brusque, which I think youwould agree is, you know, very
similar to to the way peopletalk in the military.
Um, it's full of acronyms, uh,there's.
(36:36):
You know, a fairly good chancethat you know what 70% of those
acronyms mean, but youdefinitely know what it is, um,
you just may not know exactlywhat the letters stand for.
You know it's, it's, it is,it's a comfortable environment,
like, like I've said before,it's a, it's a soft landing pad.
Dan Samson (36:49):
Yeah, Very good way to put it.
Um, so I got to ask I like todiscuss mental health on here
too.
Yeah, Um, it's an issue that weface in the service, obviously,
and it's it.
I think it's understated abouthow big of an issue it is in our
environment, in this industry.
Um, I mean, there's long hours.
Um, I've man, I'll be honest,it's pretty depressing to be
(37:11):
away from your family.
So if we've got vets, it justcompounds being a veteran.
So if we've got folks out therelistening that are in the
industry as vets or anybody forthat matter, that's just kind of
going through the muck.
What would you say to them?
Scott Friend (37:50):
Yeah, I think it goes back to being introspective
is you lose your friends?
Right, but friends is like not,it's not a sufficient enough
explanation of what those peopleare to you, right, like you,
you, you spend all of your timewith them, even the time that
(38:11):
you're not at work you'respending with them and you, you
potentially deployed with them.
Um, like you, you trust themimplicitly.
Um, and one of the things thatthat that I've seen is that
people underestimate how, how,and we're used to communicating
(38:37):
with those people.
You know, somebody told me likethis is you have to stop
thinking of friends like you're.
You know, like your friends fromyour old job, like those were
more than that, they were familymembers or maybe even slightly
(38:57):
different.
You're used to communicatingwith them with a 0% social
filter, and not only was thatcommonplace, it was kind of beat
into you and nobody trustedsomebody that communicated like
hid 10% of their thoughts.
You may not completelyverbalize everything that you're
thinking, but when you do that,better be 100 percent of what
(39:20):
you're thinking, and when youlose that, you lose a bit of an
outlet, you lose commonality andand that's it's unfortunate.
Not only is it unfortunate, Ithink it could be contributory
to to the way that guys are.
Guys are feeling now in the, inthe military, where that was,
(39:44):
uh, you know, provided for you.
I want to say artificially, butlike you were kind of forced
into it, right.
Yeah, yeah, when you're on anine month deployment together,
you, you learn each other prettyquick, exactly In the when,
when you leave the military andyou enter another industry, then
that is not necessarilyprovided to you.
(40:05):
It's something that you have toexhibit some forward action
into setting for yourself, andthat takes some effort and it's
difficult, um, but you know it's, it's something that that,
frankly, I identified, uh, whenI left the service.
(40:27):
Um is, you know, man, I, I needto, I need to, I need to have
that outlet somehow.
Um, and you know I, I had abuddy that left, uh, left the
Marine Corps.
Um, maybe two months after mehe ended up moving to Dallas.
Uh, we get together relativelyfrequently and and I've got a
(40:48):
couple other guys, um, you knowSpencer, uh, pain, who you've
met, um, who you know I link upwith, and, and, and they're
there, that outlet, and thatoutlet doesn't necessarily have
to be.
You know I link up with and,and, and they're, they're that
outlet, and that outlet doesn'tnecessarily have to be.
You know, uh, you know somethingsuper heavy socially.
It can be like, hey, let's justcheck in on each other, like,
(41:09):
let's, let's, uh, you know, uh,you know, talk with our hands
and tell helicopter stories and,you know, relive, you know, x,
y and Z memory and I, and Ithink that that's a good, you
know, social reset, like that'sa that's, that's good for us.
It's something that that we, weused to get on a daily basis,
um, or monthly basis, you know,on a deployment, um, but, but,
(41:34):
but it's, it's stripped from us,not, you know, it's our own
decision when we leave, like,but it's something that that I
didn't identify, something Iwish I would have identified,
that that I was going to miss um, and I think it's something
that you can do proactively.
Now you know that that is somuch easier said than done, um,
(41:56):
but all that to say thoseorganizations, those, those
groups, you know they, they doexist.
Like what you're, what you'redoing with Memorial Ranch.
You know, like the, the, thebullets and bourbon, that that's
run by Clint Bruce, theseorganizations exist, these
opportunities exist.
They're difficult or moredifficult to find than they,
than when they were just kind ofartificially presented to you,
(42:19):
uh, by way of you know, uh,somebody writing you PCS orders
for three years.
Dan Samson (42:25):
Right, yeah, I appreciate you sharing that man.
Yeah, well, dan, I'm going togo ahead and wrap up here.
Scott Friend (42:32):
Uh.
Dan Samson (42:32):
I just want to say, man, it's been really nice
getting to know you over thelast shoot.
We probably met a year and ahalf ago, maybe something like
that.
So I really appreciate it, dan,um, and you got a really cool
story.
I mean, you've got a reallynice uh, I don't want to say
seamless, but it's been a goodtransition for you, um, because
you haven't been out too long.
(42:53):
You know we're talking lessthan five years, right?
Yeah, I mean we're um, I thinkit'll be two years here in just
a couple months.
Yeah, so it's been reallyencouraging when I see guys like
you that get out and justflourish.
This has been great.
So if anybody wants to get ahold of you, what would be the
best way?
Scott Friend (43:11):
I think, um, you know, I'm connected with you on
linkedin.
Um, it's just, you know, dansamson, you know, feel free to
connect with me there and I'dlove to hop on a call or just
exchange emails.
You know, if you're in DFW,please feel free to reach out,
and especially those that arelooking to transition out of the
(43:33):
military, like, please, please,let me know.
This is all still relativelyfresh on my mind.
I've taken notes, uh, I've,I've got some, some things that
I that I think would wouldbenefit.
But, scott, you know, I reallyappreciate you.
Having me on this has been agreat opportunity.
You're, you're, you're awonderful human being and just
and just an excellent friend.
Um, I, I really appreciateeverything that you're doing for
(43:56):
this community.
I think this is awesome and andthank you very much.
Dan Samson (44:00):
Thanks, man, I appreciate that and I want to
say real quick too, I like thefact that you asked people just
let me give give me 30 minutesof your time.
I think that's smart, soanybody can spare that at some
point.
Scott Friend (44:10):
So yeah, All right man.
Dan Samson (44:12):
Well, dan, thanks again, man, I really appreciate
it.
Scott Friend (44:15):
Yeah, of course, scott, thank you.
Dan Samson (44:17):
All right.
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