From Special Forces to Construction Consultant: Bill McDonald's Journey of Resilience and Leadership
January 12, 2025 • 59 mins
What does it take to redefine success after three decades in military service? Join us for an inspiring conversation with Bill McDonald, an Army Special Operations veteran who transitioned from a 31-year career to find new purpose in the construction industry. Bill offers a candid look at his diverse roles as a Special Forces medic, engineer, and civil affairs officer, highlighting the critical yet often overlooked field of civil affairs. His insights into building trust and rapport provide a fresh perspective on leadership, illustrating how skills honed in the military can seamlessly transition to civilian life.
Bill's story doesn't stop at his military achievements; it extends into a transformative journey of personal growth and resilience. After facing a significant injury, Bill navigated the challenges of reshaping his career and personal identity. He shares how military strategies like backward planning and lean construction consulting have been pivotal in his civilian success, emphasizing the importance of being comfortable with discomfort as a growth strategy. His openness about seeking help for mental health challenges shatters stereotypes and encourages others to redefine masculinity and character, prioritizing integrity and courage over physical prowess.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into the power of adaptability and effective communication, both in professional settings and personal relationships. Bill expands on the concept of PACE (Primary, Alternate, Contingency, Emergency) to enhance connection and empathy beyond military applications. This episode is a compelling testament to the enduring qualities of leadership and resilience that transcend professions, offering inspiration and practical tools for veterans and anyone seeking personal and professional development. Bill's journey is a beacon for those ready to embrace change and forge new paths after service.
This episode is brought to you buy Aerial Resupply Coffee. Aerial Resupply delivers bold flavor with every sip. Their beans are expertly roasted for peak freshness and a smooth, invigorating taste. Elevate your coffee game by using code CONSTRUCTIONVET10 at checkout to receive 10% off every order. Stay caffeinated with Aerial Resupply Coffee.
For precision that sets the standard, choose Benchmark Abrasives! Their high-quality discs and pads deliver unbeatable performance and durability. Get the job done right—every time. Benchmark Abrasives, where excellence meets efficiency.
BENCHMARK ABRASIVES
This episode is brought to you by Memorial Ranch; A place where for our veterans and first responders to find rest and relaxation while they prepare for their next mission: LIFE
Memorial Ranch
If you're a military veteran in the construction industry, or you're in the construction industry and support our military vets, and you'd like to be a guest on the podcast you can find me at constructionvetpodcast@gmail.com , or send me a message on LinkedIn. You can find me there at Scott Friend. Let's share the stories and motivate others!
- TCV Email: constructionvetpodcast@gmail.com
- TCV YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@constructionvet/featured
- TCV Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/constructionvetpodcast/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
being a man.
It's not based upon how fastyou run, how strong you are, how
well you can shoot.
It's based on your characterthis is the construction veteran
podcast, connecting andcelebrating veterans in
(00:23):
construction now.
Now, here's your host, scottFriend.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
After a long and much needed break.
I'm Scott Friend.
Welcome back to theConstruction Veteran.
I'm excited to bring to youguys Bill McDonald, a tenured
Army Special Operations soldier.
Let's dig into it, hey, bill.
How are you sir?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I'm awesome Scott, Happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Awesome.
I love it, man, starting offwith the motivation.
So Bill and I have a mutualcontact in the industry and he
felt like Bill would be a goodguest on the show and I've
gotten to know him a little bitover email and prior to
recording the show, and I'mexcited to bring your story to
everybody.
So I want to talk real quick,bill, where are you from, and
(01:14):
tell me a little bit about yourservice background.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
All right.
Well, I'm going to caveat thisby saying I'm not necessarily
proud of where I'm from per uh,cause it's changed a lot, but
I'm from California originally.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, oh, no, yeah, we're cutting the recording now.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, a beautiful state man.
It's.
Uh, there's just the stateitself.
Top topography is beautiful,but it's changed so much that,
uh, I don't live there anymoreand, uh, neither is my family.
Um's, you know, it was nice,well, while we were there.
As far as my service background,you know I am I spent 31 years
(01:51):
in the military, 20 yearsenlisted and 11 years as an
officer, and I checked almostevery block in those 31 years I
I was enlisted, started out asan e1 I to E-8, transitioned
over to be an officer directcommissioned, and then I got out
as a major and I was spent sometime active duty, some time in
(02:14):
the Guard and some time in theReserves and I was a Special
Forces qualified soldier.
I was an 18 Delta and an 18Charlie.
18 Delta is a Special Forcesmedic and 18 Charlie is a
Special Forces engineer and Icrossed over and I was a civil
affairs officer and that's whatI retired at.
(02:36):
I do have several other MOSs inthere, specialties.
Those are the primary ones and,yeah, it was great initially
just to throw this out there forthose people that are in the
reserve components.
When I first went in thereserves or the guard, you know
(02:58):
I had certain assumptions aboutit, but I am very glad that I
was able to experience thereserves and the guard because
it actually allowed me tounderstand how those military
members can compliment whatactive duty does and the value
that they have and it can.
It's often underestimated andmisunderstood, so I'm thankful
(03:23):
for that experience.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, very cool.
You're actually the secondcivil affairs major I've had on.
I had Ryan Brents on.
I don't know if if that namerings a bell or if you guys ever
ran across each other, but Ihad him on as a guest last year.
So very unique community.
That um isn't talked about toomuch in in uh outside of special
operations, so it's a.
It's a neat role, can you?
Can you?
A lot of people know about whatSF is, but can you talk to me
about what civil affairs is?
(03:50):
Real quick?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, you know it's interesting because most people
they, um, they talk smack aboutcivil affairs Like they don't
really understand what a civilaffairs officer does.
But civil affairs they'rereally masters at building
rapport and establishing trustand so you know, they go in and
(04:16):
and it used to be, uh, back inthe nineties and before that,
where civil affairs teams weremade up of special forces guys.
It was a rotation when you leftthe team just to take a break
for a little bit you'd go into aspecial forces team and then
they took them away and thenthey transitioned to where it's
(04:39):
civil affairs.
They split it in half and it'ssome for special forces and some
for the regular army component.
But I always tell people, youknow, if you want to go into
business or internationalrelations or you just want to
understand people and you wantto be a good leader and manager,
civil affairs officer is a wayto go because you're constantly
(05:02):
interacting with local nationals, people of high positions in
the government, in both theUnited States government if you
go on certain missions as wellas foreign governments.
It's very unique.
But, man, does it really helpdevelop some personal skills?
(05:24):
Yeah, very cool man, does itreally help develop some
personal?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
skills.
Yeah, very cool, um, and solet's let's talk about what
you're doing now.
Man, you've only been out um ofthe reserves Correct me if I'm
wrong since 2022.
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah, January 18th 2022.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Very cool, and when did you transition off active
duty?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Uh, the last time I transitioned off of active duty
was 2006 actually.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Okay, and that was straight to the guard after that
.
Yes, very cool.
So, man, you did.
You're like the renaissance manin special operations, for sure
You've had.
You're like the Renaissance manin special operations, for sure
.
Yeah, did you.
So when you transitioned offactive duty, we'll get into what
you're doing now.
But did you get into yourcurrent role after that, or did
(06:15):
you kind of bounce around and doa couple different things?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
No, I did what a lot of special operations guys did.
I did some contracting andactually, um, my active duty and
guard time went back and forth,so, um, because I originally
got out in 2001 and then wentback in and then got out.
(06:42):
So what I did initially, when Igot off of active duty in my
first contracting job, was I wasthe co-director of the Afghan
Secret Service.
I mean, I'm sorry, I was on thepersonal protection detail for
Karzai Hamid Karzai, he's theguy we put into power in 2001.
And I was on that detail.
(07:03):
And then I later became theco-director of his secret
service.
I was, uh, appointed by thestate department very
interesting um gig.
And then, uh, when I came backhome, I pursued.
My other passion was his health,health and fitness.
I used to train athletes forliving in San Diego, and then I
(07:27):
got hurt, and that's a wholeother story and then I went to,
so I couldn't train athletesbecause I used to train with my
athletes, which is a littledifferent.
I didn't tell them what to do,I did everything with them.
So in San Diego I trainedtriathletes and I trained
marathon runners and somecrossfitters and some corporate
(07:49):
executives, and then I got hurtand I had some malpractice.
It was done to me and renderedme a.
I was classified as an amputeethere's a story behind that as
well and so I couldn't do thatprofession anymore.
At the same time that all thathappened, I was offered a job to
(08:09):
teach for a three-letter agencyin Virginia, and they didn't
care that I was doing physicaltherapy and that I was going
through surgeries and all thisstuff.
As long as I could teach, theysaid they welcomed me.
So I came to Virginia.
I taught for eight years almost10,000 students and it was kind
(08:35):
of a toxic environment.
So I was really looking forsomething else to do.
At the same time, I was tryingto do some coaching as well as a
head of coaching.
I have done that.
I've got a lot of training andeducation in that.
But at the time it reallywasn't paying the bills.
That's a tough market to getinto and so I just wanted to
(08:56):
transition into another careerfield where I could leverage my
leadership and rapport buildingand experience, and that's how I
got into this industry.
If you want details on exactlyhow that happened, I mean I can
tell you.
But bottom line is I waslooking last October for a
(09:17):
different thing to do that wouldleverage my skills.
That was outside of anythingthat had to do with government.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, let's, let's talk about that.
So how you?
You stumbled upon what you'redoing.
Now let's, let's discuss, kindof how we got introduced and
what you're doing in relation tothe construction industry.
What is it that you do?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
So I'm a consultant for lean construction in the
last planner system andoriginally, around September
October, a very good friend ofmine that I've known for like 25
years, he was involved in leanconstruction and he said hey, I
think we have some openings,bill, let me get you in contact
(10:00):
with the director and he'llinterview you and maybe, if it's
a good fit and you know, youcan come out here and you know,
I don't know what the detailsare.
And I said okay, what exactlydo you do?
And he gave me kind of a bigdescription, um, about problem
solving and things like that andplanning.
(10:21):
But uh, it wasn't exactly superclear.
And so I said what?
And he's an 18 and 18.
Uh, charlie too, he's a firstforce engineer.
I'm like, all right, well, you,I'm a charlie and I'm an
engineer and I know basicinstruction.
But, man, you're talking aboutthe commercial level.
That's like that's way above mypay grade.
(10:42):
And he goes trust me, yourexperience in special forces
planning, it's exactly what theyneed.
And, especially since you're anofficer, he was enlisted, we
were enlisted together.
He got out as enlisted at theE7 or E8.
And so I said well, you know,I'm willing to explore it, I'm
(11:03):
willing to find out moreinformation, and the guy that he
connected me with was anotherformer Special Forces guy that
had retired as a team sergeantand he gave me a better
explanation and so I spoke withhim and we, you know, talked
about well you know, there's alack of good structure and
(11:28):
planning the constructionindustry.
You there.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, I'm still here.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Oh well, I don't know what happened, my screen just
went dark.
Sorry about that.
Um and um.
So he went.
Uh, so he says you know,they're behind the timeline and
they're usually over budget.
There's usually not a very goodcommunication.
Uh, he said so.
(11:56):
You know, your experience inspecial forces as a civil
affairs officer has a directcorrelation to what the industry
is missing, and I'm like okay,all right.
So we did that interview andthen, um, at the same time I got
another job offer and uh, I hadto take it.
And so I took it and I wentoverseas for a little bit.
(12:19):
But I never heard back fromthis guy.
And so I'm like, okay, well,you know, um, I'm a direct, I'm
a very direct guy.
So whenever I'm like, okay,well, you know, um, I'm a direct
, I'm a very direct guy.
So whenever I'm done with likean interview process, I just
straight up ask the question isthere any reason that you can
see after the interview orwhatever the interaction is,
that you wouldn't hire me oroffer me a job?
(12:40):
And uh, he said, no, not, no,not at all.
I mean, yeah, you're exactlywhat I'm looking for.
I said, okay, great, he didn'tcall me back.
He took this other job overseas, but it was some unethical
business practices.
So I left that job, came back tothe States and I was looking
(13:00):
for something to get outside ofthe government.
And I get a call from this guy.
So I think it'd been five,maybe six months and he said,
hey, bill, it's so-and-so.
And I'm like oh, hey, how's itgoing?
He goes yeah, man, I got toapologize to you.
I I'm sorry I ghosted you, itwasn't intentional, but that
(13:21):
company I, I I had the feelingthat I was going to be leaving
the company.
I didn't want to bring you intothe company knowing that I was
leaving.
There was possibly some issues.
I'm like, oh okay, yeah, allright, he goes.
But I have another opportunity.
It's with this other MarineCorps captain that has got this
(13:43):
construction background and he'ssees a need in the industry and
he's going to start his owncompany.
And, um, he asked me if I wasavailable.
But I've got a really good gigwith another company.
Um, I wasn't ready to leave it,but I told him I knew exactly
who he should talk to and so canI give you his number or your
(14:06):
number?
And I said yeah, by all means.
And so that was how I wasintroduced to Andrew and his
company IndustrializedConstruction Partners, or IC
Partners and that's how I gotinto the industry.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Well, I speak for the industry man.
We're lucky to have a guy ofyour caliber, so I'm glad you
find your way and I'm sure youknow.
I know you haven't been in thisgig for too long, but I'm sure
you're already seeing someparallels between the service
and the construction industry.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
for sure, yeah, for sure, I've developed this skill
of looking at a situation orcircumstance and then just
translating it into experiencethat I've had, or vice versa.
And so, yeah, I've definitelybeen able to, although I was a
little hesitant to step into theindustry.
(15:01):
Since I've been in the industry, I have enjoyed it, uh,
immensely, and I have been ableto provide quite a bit of value.
And uh, well, those guys wereright, those those two sf guys
were right that, uh, my skillset translates nicely, um, to
the industry.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
So yeah for sure.
So so what was it like what?
What made you realize, okay,this is a good fit.
Um, seeing your background, Imean that's a drastic change
getting into construction.
I'm sure you you came with, um,maybe some misconceptions about
what construction might be and,uh, you know, like you said,
(15:42):
what the heck is lean, and wecan talk about that a little bit
.
So what was that transitionlike?
I mean, what made you feelcomfortable making that jump
into this industry?
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Well, at first, um, you know, sometimes we have to
be comfortable beinguncomfortable.
So I, uh, I had the interviewand you know, and obviously he
had my resume, looked at mybackground and everything and he
(16:12):
explained to me that you knowsome of the problems and the
issues, like you know, beingbehind schedule and over budget
and having poor communicationand things like that I'm like,
yep, I totally understand thatstuff and you know, I study
cognitive behavior as a hobbyand, um, put, put those things
into practice and I've, you know, taught over 15 000 students in
(16:33):
my lifetime, probably closer to20.
So one I thought, well, kind ofsounds to me like this is just
a variation of teaching.
Um, it's improvement, right,it's systems and organization
and structure and things likethat.
So I'm like, all right, youknow I can do that.
But the final interview stepwas to fly me to Texas and put
(16:59):
me in front of five industryprofessionals and put me in a
make pool, pool planning session.
You know, the pool planningsession is right, a base plan,
yeah yeah, let's, can we?
Speaker 2 (17:12):
can we sidetrack real quick and kind of talk about
what that is and and a littlebit about uh, last planner?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
yeah, so, um, the last planner system is a system
that was designed to optimizeplanning or make planning more
efficient for the constructionindustry, and it implements
something called backwardsplanning.
(17:39):
And backwards planning isforeign to a lot of the
corporate world, because most ofthe corporate world does
forwards planning, which is whatmost people are familiar with,
but backwards planning is howspecial operations plans their
missions.
So I had 26 years of experiencedoing backwards planning.
We do that as a civil affairsand civil affairs too, and so
(18:04):
you start at a milestone.
So you identify a milestone inthe future.
It can be six weeks, eightweeks, 12 weeks, but in some
parts of the industry six weeksis kind of standard, knowing
that it's hard to plan andpredict things that happen too
far in the future because youhave weather and all kinds of
other issues that happen too farin the future because you have
(18:25):
weather and all kinds of otherissues.
Right, but you identify amilestone and then you begin to
plan from the point of themilestone six weeks in the
future back to today, and sowhen some people have never
heard of it, hear about it,they're like this doesn't even
make sense.
There's no way we can predictwhat goes on in six weeks from
now, and that's not the point.
(18:47):
The point is we're going toplan this as if nothing were to
happen in the next six weeks andthen, as we do that, we will
begin to identify problems.
That's what I tell a lot ofpeople is if you just trust the
process, then what we're goingto figure out is that this
method of planning allows us toidentify problems early and
(19:08):
often and when you forward planin the construction industry and
other industries as well,there's a tendency to run right
into a problem like hit apothole, and then they're like
okay, now what do I do?
How do I deal with this pothole?
And it takes time and it takesmoney, which then costs other
(19:29):
issues for the project.
And if you do backwardsplanning or LPS last planter
system correctly, you canidentify a potential problem
three or four weeks in advance.
And my experience is you canmitigate those problems that you
experience up to 70 or 80% ofthe time.
(19:49):
So it's really incredible andwhen people really learn it,
they go, oh my gosh, like whyhaven't we done this before?
Unfortunately, there's a largepercentage of people that are
getting taught LPS in the wrongor the less less efficient and
less effective way.
Is that good, or do you want meto explain more about?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
it.
No, that's, that's perfect, andI think so.
I've been off active duty since2011 and I've seen the change
happen where a lot more peopleare adopting that system and to
me, when it was getting bigger,it just I'm going well, this
just makes sense.
Like, this is the way we shoulddo things.
Um, you know, what am I, whatam I not going to do today
that's going to impact me sixweeks in the future on the job
(20:33):
site, or what do I need to dotoday to make sure that that's
successful?
I guess it's a good way to putit.
Um, so it's.
It's neat seeing that it'sgotten so much traction over the
last decade, plus to where I'mseeing the industry.
Just, it's becoming the normnow.
That's just kind of the way weplan and the way we're supposed
to plan.
But I sidetracked you, I'msorry.
(20:56):
So we were talking about theparallels between what you saw
and kind of what made youcomfortable getting into this.
Yeah, kind of what made youcomfortable getting into this,
yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
So to go back to that , they told me what they were
going to do and I, I don't know.
I think most, most normalpeople would have been like, are
you kidding me?
Like no way, I'm not going tostand in front of five industry
professionals and go throughsome mock thing when I I didn't
come from this industry to beginwith, like what, but I don't
really have a problem, I'mcomfortable being uncomfortable
(21:25):
and I don't have a problem beingon stage and talking and things
like that.
So I said, all right, well, youknow, I'll take the challenge.
And so they brought me in thisconference room in Dallas, texas
.
You know I met these five guysthat didn't know me and I didn't
know them.
Well, that's not true, causeAndrew was one of them and We've
had plenty of conversations,and the other SF gentleman was
one of them as well, and theyjust they're like okay.
(21:51):
So they gave me, you know, abasic blurb on a project.
You know like hey, you've gotthis $130 million high school
that's being built and know thegroundwork's already been done
and the foundation's alreadybeen done and we're going to
rack.
And you know you've got thesteel guy and this and that, and
(22:12):
you know, I understood some ofthese terms and some of the some
of the concepts, but I'm like,okay, there's definitely some
things that I I'm familiar%familiar with.
I'm like, okay, all right, I'mlistening.
And then, hey, we have got to,we've lost some time, we've lost
like a month, and these aresome of the issues and stuff.
(22:35):
And hey, you're the one that'sleading this meeting with your
trade partners and you've got toget them back on track and
you've got to deal with some ofthe issues that you might
encounter.
And I'm like, okay, all righty,all right, let's start.
And so I stumbled initiallythrough the first little bit,
but then I got into whatever youwant to call it, the zone.
(22:58):
I got into the zone and I'mreally good at focusing on
solutions one and I'm reallygood at focusing on solutions
one, and I'm really good atreframing things and I'm really
good at redirecting people'sefforts and their focus.
And so, for example, you know,they threw at me some attitudes
(23:21):
that you know you might get froma steel guy or a framer.
Hold on a second.
Oh, my bad on that.
Um, so I can go back and makethis flow all right.
So, um, oh, man, lost my trainof thought, scott no you can
(23:45):
I thought I'd turned all myalarms off, everything, so let's
try this again.
So they threw some attitudes atme and then, you know, I just
dealt with the attitudes and Ididn't give the attitudes back
because, again, um, one of thethings that I do with all the
projects that I work on is Italk about rapport building and
I talked to them about teambuilding and everything else.
(24:05):
We can get into that in aminute, in a few minutes, but
anyway.
So they just kept throwingproblems at me and and and even
throwing turns that at the timeI didn't even really truly
understand.
You know, like, at the time Ididn't really truly understand
what a slab on grade was, youknow, or there's between a pilot
, a peer and so, but I knew thegeneral thing, like, okay, you
(24:25):
have a problem.
I understand, we have atimeline, we have to get this
done.
I'm like so let's focus on thesolution.
And you know, let's focus onthis.
And by the time I got done, theyall said you did an incredible
job, bill, bill.
It's like.
It's like did you make a greatsuperintendent?
I'm like what?
Oh, all right, cool, thanks,and so that that gave me some
(24:50):
confidence.
You know that that wholesituation and that I mean you
can call it a rehearsal, right,cause that's what we would call
it special forces, I guess.
But yeah, after that I'm like,okay, all right, sure, if you're
telling me that I did a fairlygood job and you know great.
So then I just shadowed Andrewon a couple of projects and he
(25:14):
introduced me and then I startedtalking to guys about problems
and identifying solutions,problems and identifying
solutions.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, I think I would liken it to what civil affairs
does?
I mean a lot of what we do like.
I'll give you an example.
I'm not an expert at any of thetrades.
I mean, I'm a carpenter bytrade, but I'm not an expert at
any of these trades.
A lot of it is just relationshipbuilding, trusting the team to
execute, and I'm just laying thegroundwork like okay, here's
(25:45):
the plan, and showing themwhat's on the horizon, what has
to be done.
But I I've likened the tradesbefore to like a warrant officer
.
So these guys are like I'm, Iwould be like the BC, so I'm
kind of given the commands ofhere's what we need to do.
But I'm leaning on these guysas the experts in their
individual fields and so I thinksometimes we overcomplicate the
(26:06):
industry where it really doesjust boil down to trust and
building those relationships,Cause I'm not going to build the
job myself.
I can't, I mean physically asone man, yes, but I can't.
I can't do all these things, Idon't have all the trade
expertise.
So I think it, it fits you well, man, and I'm really glad you
you found your fit in theindustry.
Um, so if if you were to go back, uh, maybe when you were
(26:31):
transitioning out or looking forwork, um, do you think, maybe,
that you would have followed thesame journey back into this
industry and try to find yourway, or was it just kind of a
fluke and it fell in your lap?
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Um, I went back.
Well, I mean, I think it's coolindustry, um, but I, I mean, I
kind of followed the path that.
I kind of followed the paththat I wanted to follow.
Um, I'm happy to be where I'mat right now and I, I'm, you
know, I, I believe God sets uson a specific path for a reason.
We experienced certain things,whether they're painful or that
are difficult, or they're notpainful and they're not
(27:22):
difficult, but, uh, so would Ido things over again?
No, I think I'm here at thetime, I'm here for a reason.
There's definitely a need.
In nine, I'm being successfuland welcomed, so, um, so I'm not
so sure if I would have changedit, because then I wouldn't
have had the other experiences Ihad.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, that's fair.
I don't think there's reallyany right or wrong answer to
that.
I'm just curious.
So I know I've stated what Ithink, what attributes that you
carried over.
But what do you think reallystands out that you've brought
to this industry that youlearned during your time in SF
and civil affairs?
You've brought to this industrythat you learned during your
(28:04):
time in SF and civil affairs.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Well, um, I liken being in this industry and work
with trade partners or going ondifferent projects as like a fit
mission.
So you know, movies are moviesand what you usually see in a
movie except for maybe theoriginal, you know green brain
movie that had John Wayne in itis we all go fight terrorists
(28:28):
and this and that.
But SF's primary mission haslargely been foreign internal
defense across the world sinceits inception, with the
exception of.
Yes, we have seven differentmissions and direct actions, one
counterterrorism, onecounterinsurgency.
But the bottom line is, youknow, a lot of this training in
(28:52):
foreign countries is what we do,so our teachers, our
instructors, and going to a newjob site and work with different
trade partners is kind of likethat, which means you can't use
the same exact techniqueeverywhere and the culture is
(29:13):
going to be slightly differentdepending upon where you go.
Like, construction workers inPhilly aren't going to be the
same as construction workers inTexas, aren't going to be the
same as construction workers inTexas, and so if you aren't
aware of your surroundings andyou can't pick up on and
identify the nuances anddifference in the methods of
communication, in the way thatthey think of things and you
(29:39):
can't adjust whether you're notgoing to be as successful as you
could be.
So I have a lot of experiencewith that, both in civil affairs
and special forces working.
I've been to 47 countries Ithink.
I've operated like the military, I think 19 of those 47
countries, and so I've met somesuperintendents and some other
(30:04):
old school guys because I'm inmy 50s, so it's not like I'm in
my 50s but I look a lot youngerAnother one of the reasons why
Andrew liked me because of that.
But anyway, they're set intheir ways and they're not going
to change and they are who theyare and they're just going to
do what they do.
Unfortunately, that doesn'talways work the best and so
(30:27):
there's friction.
That's unnecessary, right?
So that's one.
Two is I'm a solutions-focusedperson and I understand the
nuances of perspectives and thewords we use and so I can key in
on that and I can help redirectpeople.
And I'll tell you a quick story.
And that's one of thesuperintendents I was working
(30:52):
with, great guy, former Marine,former SF guy.
He was superintendent and whenwe first started working
together he would say all right,everybody, thank you for being
here.
I appreciate it.
My name is so-and-so, and Ijust want everyone to know that
I am really aggressive when itcomes to this type of stuff.
(31:15):
I'm really aggressive aboutmeeting timelines and in the
project and doing good work, andhe says this about the third
time.
I said hey, can doing good work, and you know he says this.
And about the third time I saidhey, can we just pause for a
second?
And he said yeah, yeah, bill,for all means.
I said let's talk about thewords that we use when we're
communicating with teams,because you know, sometimes the
(31:37):
words make the difference in therelationship and the way we're
perceived.
And he's like, okay, yeah, what, you know what'd you got?
And I said, well, I know youdon't mean anything negative by
it, but you know you like tostart these meetings out with.
You know I'm aggressive when Icome to this and that and
everything else.
And you pretty much have a roomfull of men in here that are
all the different tradesmenforemen and things like that.
(31:59):
And if it's not a consciousthing, it's a subconscious thing
.
It kind of raises or heightenstheir you know their sense.
There's just that word ingeneral, you know, a little
defensive, a little like whatyou know.
It.
Just it causes this subtleshift.
It's not a positive shift inhuman behavior, and so it goes.
(32:21):
Well, I don't, I didn't, I don't, I don't mean anything by like
you know, I, uh, I'm not.
I said I know, I know you'rejust passionate about your work,
right, you're a passionateabout?
Yeah, that's it, man, I'mpassionate and like so if we
change the word to somethingelse, does that be passionate?
Then you, you won't immediatelyget these guys in a heightened
(32:42):
state and then about like threeminutes later the rest of his
staff goes yeah, yeah, we agreewith Bill.
And he said well, why didn't yousay anything to me, like, why
didn't you guys tell me and ofcourse most people don't want to
ruffle the feathers of the bossor the guy they work for or
things like that, right, sothey're not necessarily willing
to say anything.
Or the guy they work for orthings like that, right, so
(33:03):
they're not necessarily willingto say anything.
So I can identify that stuffand communicate it in a a
non-abrasive way and get guys tochange and adjust to make the
relationships they have better.
And then I just talked to himabout specific points.
So I know I kind of went off ona little tangent, but it's.
(33:24):
My experience working with abunch of different people in
different countries, acrosscultural barriers and language
barriers has allowed me to beable to step into an environment
and assess it and then adjustmy approach, uh, so that I can
(33:46):
actually build rapport and trustthere.
And, uh, I understand bridgingtrust, which is something that's
eroding in the United States orhas eroded or is almost gone
actually, yeah, no, no, I mean Iappreciate the tangent man.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I mean the floor is yours on this and, like I said,
I want to share your story.
So, um, and again we, we see alot of parallels and, and what
you did and and what you'redoing now.
Um, I want to take a shift realquick too and talk about, uh,
mental health, which isobviously a major issue in in
the service and, as, as peopleare finally shedding some light
(34:23):
on it's, a big issue in theconstruction industry as well.
So, if you've had some peoplethat are maybe listening, that
are going through some stuff inthe service or in the industry,
what would you say Because Iknow this is a big part of your
personal mission and makingpeople their best what would you
say to try to encourage thatperson?
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Well, the first thing I would like to say is, if
you're experiencing struggleswith your mental health, it
doesn't mean you're weak.
I mean, I'm a green brain.
I'm going to be the first totell you that identifying the
fact that you have some mentalhealth struggles meaning you're
(35:06):
not yourself or you're just notright, you're not exactly sure
how to fix it.
Well, you don't have to haveall the answers.
I mean you don't right.
So that's why there areprofessionals out there, and
this is not the same as it was,you know, back in 2002 or
post-Vietnam.
I think it's a lot more widelyaccepted that that's just
(35:31):
something that service membersexperience and have experienced
for a number of differentreasons.
And so identifying andunderstanding it's not weak to
identify it, that's.
That's one point.
Two, seeking help, um, becauseyou're just not equipped and and
I'm a guy that you know hasalmost a dozen nos's um, and I
(35:55):
had to realize that I didn'thave an answer on how to deal
with some of the, you know,mental health stuff.
So I did something called emdr,uh, which is phenomenal, um,
for getting through certaintraumas, and I've had a whole
lifetime of trauma.
I mean, I was abused when I wasa kid too.
So, um, but uh, so anyway.
(36:16):
So, and that you're not broken.
Right, there's broken, and whenI say broken, I mean obviously
you.
You may not be thinking thesame way or your mental health
may not be as resilient as itwas before or as positive, or
things like that, but it'sfixable.
You know, they can make youpretty much whole, but you have
(36:46):
to be open about it and you haveto be willing to try something
new and different.
And you have to understand thatthose that seek help and get on
a mission to get better, that'sa true sign of strength.
But if you keep it to yourselfand you stay private about it
and or deny it, uh, it's justgoing to get worse.
(37:08):
It's like a slow poison, right.
So once it doesn't get fixed,it just gets worse and worse and
worse.
And we don't realize it becauseour perception starts to kind
of get skewed.
And so I tell people I seekthat help and understand there
are people out there that haveexperienced similar things to
(37:29):
you, that have sought help andthat have gotten better and
leading awesome lives and havetaken that trauma and used it to
help other people.
So I don't know, is that, doesthat work, scott?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
yeah, yeah, man, yeah , man.
Very well said, and that's kindof a good segue to into.
I want to talk about some ofthe work you're doing outside of
the consulting.
Can you share a little bitabout your personal work that
you're doing with people?
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Yes, so you know there's.
I went through a very deeppersonal struggle.
I mean, I've actually beenthrough a lot.
If I was a cat I probably wouldhave used up all night of my
lives.
But that whole situation when Iwas training athletes for a
living in California and, oh, bythe way, my career was starting
(38:20):
to really pick up, I waswriting articles, I was about to
be picked up by a majormagazine and, yeah, I mean I
mean that that career was doingpretty well.
So when I got hurt and then hadthis surgery that went poorly,
that led to three, foursurgeries in three States, in
(38:44):
three years of physical therapy,and at the age of 43, by the
way, I was in the best shape ofmy life.
This happened when I was 43.
And I was right-handed for 43years and I had to transition to
be a left-handed and my wifehad to feed me, by the way, and
dress me for a couple monthsbecause I couldn't do any of
(39:04):
that stuff and all that, butanyway.
So I went through some of that.
Just that's actually, I guess,ties into what you had we just
talked about, which is themental health thing, because at
that moment, at that time, um,that was such a massive shift in
my life that I I did getdepressed and I um,
interestingly enough, I never II never had really any PTSD.
(39:25):
Uh, scott, we in uh, from allthe combat and I used to get
shot.
I got shot at in South America,columbia, before nine 11
happened.
Um, and that's probably becauseI grew up in the inner city and
I got stabbed a few times and Isaw my first almost I was 16.
So you know, when people wouldask how could you not have any
(39:45):
PTSD from being over there inIraq and Afghanistan, I'm like I
have no idea.
Maybe it's because I was exposedto trauma earlier in my life
and it just faced with not beingable to use my right hand, and
(40:07):
even though I'm educated and I'mrelatively smart, my identity
was always based on myphysicality, centered on my
physicality, and so I wasquestioning what does it mean to
be a man, and was I going to bea man anymore?
Can I protect my family?
Can I do any of this otherstuff?
So, as I did that, I came tothis revelation that and being a
(40:32):
man, it's not based upon howfast you run, how strong you are
, how well you can shoot, it'sbased upon your character.
And so I wrote down what arethe characters of a true man,
and it just so happened I wrotedown 13 of them and I redefined
(40:54):
them, and 13, by the way, is myfavorite number.
I didn't do that on purpose,that's just when I got done
writing I was like, oh my goshand you know, integrity is the
number one of those charactertraits and I reframed them,
meaning I gave three differentdefinitions to each of these,
(41:16):
and that courage is one, andthere are all these that I felt
like, well, you know, this is amark of a true man.
And so, from that point forward, I endeavored to share that
with other men, because I couldsee that there's this slow
erosion of the definition ofwhat it means to be a man.
(41:39):
We've seen it.
It's been a slow thing, that'shappened over decades TV movies,
physicians and all these things.
And so you know, we're lackingin the United States of two
things the whole concept offamily and the definition of
what it means to be a man or afather.
(42:01):
And so I share these with guysand I change their perspective,
and I now have metaphors,because my wife and I we went
through this really tough periodas well.
Right after I came back from theMiddle East, I was over there
for five and a half years and itwas rough and it almost broke
(42:24):
my marriage apart and we wentthrough what's called what we
call five years of marriagecombat.
After that, when we made it andnow reflected back, or even
when I was going through thiswhole thing in 2015, 16, 17, I
would reflect back on that timeand I just had all these
revelations of these really coolexamples that I didn't have.
(42:47):
Then, in the middle of thatcombat with my wife, where I
just thought she was crazy and Ididn't understand what the heck
was going on with her, I goback, I think back and I'm like,
oh my gosh, man.
Okay, now I can relate that so.
So, with that said, I have thisthing.
It's an ebook.
It's called the 13 codes.
I think 15 or 15 to 20,000people have downloaded it over
(43:10):
the over the years.
But again, you know, I at thattime I didn't have the right.
You know I at that time didn'thave the right, you know people
to support me, and so I spent alot of money and put a lot of
effort and I had a greatFacebook presence and did this
other thing, but it just in theend.
It wasn't paying my bills and Iwas still going through a lot
of other stuff, so I had to putthat on pause for a little bit.
(43:32):
But I created something calledthe FIP, and so what I've, what
I've really been good at doing,is taking the things that I
learned in the military in inlike military planning, which I
use in the last planner systemand in construction.
But I've also helped men withtheir relationships.
I've helped some people not getdivorced.
(43:56):
I've helped some people improvetheir relationship with their
children.
I developed this thing.
So when you're in specialoperations, if you have a target
, you're given a tip, a targetintelligence packet.
In the packet it talks aboutall this different stuff about.
This is the target, this iswhere they eat on this day and
(44:19):
this way to get their haircut,and this and that right.
And we take that tip and wedevelop our plan and we
determine, okay, when and whereare we going to take the target
out.
And I took that and I turned itinto a FIP, a female
intelligence packet, and I wouldtalk to guys about how to
gather either intelligence ontheir spouse in a covert or an
(44:42):
overt way.
But the bottom line is part ofthe reason why your relationship
is losing track and it's notvery good is because you don't
really understand yoursignificant other.
And a lot of people argue.
And then I say, well, let meask you a couple of questions.
Um, and real quick, do you knowwhat the acronym PACE stands
for?
Scott?
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I don't offhand, but I'm real quick.
I'm on the website signing upfor the packet as we speak.
I'm listening to you but I'mand for those who don't know,
it's themoderndaynightcom.
So what is PACE?
Speaker 1 (45:17):
So PACE was originally built for
communications and I looked highand low on that, exactly where
it started and I think it was inVietnam, but it may have been
during the OSS days, but anywayit was for communication.
So it stands for primary,alternate, contingency and
(45:38):
emergency right and it'sbasically for communications on
the move or in the field or incombat situations or whatever.
You, if you don't havecommunications, you don't get
support, you don't get food, youdon't get ammo, you don't
intelligence, you don't get thatstuff.
Don't get ammo, you don'tintelligence.
You know you don't get thatstuff.
And so they developed this like,all right, we have to have four
(45:58):
methods of communication, wehave to have some backup ones,
of contingency ones, and so theycreated this so that you know
like, for example, um, normalfield radios, they're really
heavy and their batteries arereally heavy and they don't
carry.
You know they don't have a lotof power, meaning it's not like
it's a battery that lasts for 15hours.
(46:19):
You know, like iphones andthings like that, right, and so
you carry this big radio in thejungle or something like that.
There's only so many batteriesyou can carry with you, and if
you drop and you break it, andso they're like okay, we need
another form of communication,so you might have a smaller
handheld radio.
That was more like a line ofsight type of radio, right, um,
then you had um, morris code,which it couldn't have voice
(46:43):
communication.
Then the bandwidth you wouldneed wouldn't be nearly as much
for morris code.
And then you know, we'd alsocarry a hundred feet of wire and
a hundred feet of 550 cord, andthen you'd get a plastic spoon
out of mre and you'd cut six,three, six foot sticks and you
put them together in a triangleand you'd hoist this up and it's
(47:05):
called a jungle antenna and,man, you would be blown away at
what the communications youcould get.
Now, if there's combo guys outthere and there's 18 echoes out
there and please don't slay mebecause I didn't describe it all
I mean it's been a long timeand I did it a couple of times
earlier in my career.
So if I got some details wrong,I'm not claiming to be the
(47:29):
expert, I just you know what Imean.
So I don't want someone to comeback.
But anyway, generally speaking,I think I got that concept
right.
I've done it a few times, maybemany years ago, and it was
really cool.
So when I learned that pace,when I learned it in SF, we
pretty much operate on pace foreverything.
So if you had to plan a mission, not just commo but okay,
(47:53):
what's the primary way we'regoing to hit this target?
What's the primary?
Oh, on a Monday at eighto'clock while he's getting his
haircut.
And then, if that didn't work,we'd immediately float to
another plan.
We'd have to go back to thedrawing board, take another
couple of days to figure it out.
We will have already figuredout four courses of action based
on different criteria, and thenwe could just fluidly execute
(48:17):
those things right.
And so I've taken that pace andI took it to the fip and I also
bring it to lps.
But I tell guys okay, what'syour wife's favorite flower?
Most of the time they're not100.
Sure, they just assume it's arose, and so they'll be like a
rose.
They said do you know that fora fact or you're just assuming
because you think all women likeroses?
You're like well, I'm, yeah, mywife loves roses, is it?
(48:41):
Have you ever asked her?
She told you.
And sometimes you're like, well, uh, I don't like, because my
wife doesn't like roses.
And then the second favoriteflower she's the carnations.
And so I'm like what's yourwife's second favorite flower?
I'm'm like, well, I, I don'tknow.
Um, let me say something.
Or say carnations.
I'm like do you know that for afact or are you just assuming?
(49:01):
And I'm like well, what does itmatter?
I mean, if I just buy roses andlike, what else are sold out of
the roses?
What's your wife's favoritecolor?
What's your second favoritecolor?
And I asked all these questionsand then they then they're like
I don't know, I guess not.
I'm like see, so if you don'tknow those facts what's your
favorite meal?
What's your favorite thing todo, what's your love language
(49:22):
then the way that you'reinteracting, communicating with
your spouse, you may be way offman.
You may be sending thesesubconscious messages that I
don't, you don't really care.
Now I'm going to caveat this bysaying I haven't mastered this
myself, scott.
Um, so you know, it's still afluid thing and sometimes these
(49:45):
things change, but nonetheless,when you get to know your
significant other to that detail, then your ability to
communicate more effectively ormore empathetically becomes
better.
And then other things just getbetter.
Right, their perception that,whether you care or not, it just
(50:08):
gets better because you'remaking these slight adjustments
and changes, and so, anyway, Ireally like doing that.
That's what I like to do, um.
I'll also ask guys about theirintegrity, and it's cool.
I personally, in my lifetime,has spent probably a hundred
thousand dollars in personaldevelopment.
I mean, I've been a Tony Robbins, uh, I've been, you know, um.
(50:30):
But the problem with that is isa lot of people don't walk away
with actual tools to implementfrom that $4,000 they spent in
those four days.
They're just motivated for acouple days or a couple weeks.
They feel really good and theysay they can do that.
They don't really walk guyswith tools and I tell them look,
(50:56):
you know, if you just changethe way you operated on a daily
basis and focused on charactertraits, like these 13 codes and
I'm like there can be 12, youcan pick different ones and they
don't have to be the 13 thatI've picked, 12, you could pick
different ones and they don'thave to be the 13 that I've
(51:18):
picked, um you would magicallysee your life significantly
changed, um.
And if we have time or there'sinterest and I can, I can give
an example of the integritything, um, during the podcast,
or we can do another one, butit's usually eyeopening for most
guys.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Yeah, no, I love this and kind of liking it to the
industry.
I'm not going to go ask thetrade foreman his favorite
flower, but uh, you know there's.
There's a lot of power ingetting to know your people too.
Um, you know, I've heard peopletalk about like knowing people
on a first name basis.
That holds a lot of power to it.
I try to make it a point toshake hands with the guys on the
(51:55):
job site every morning, youknow, just reaching out and
saying good morning or how areyour kids and people really
appreciate that Like, I take ageneral, a genuine interest in
you as a person.
Before I do, like, I'll giveyou a quick example.
I have a guy on my job sitethat, uh, he's had some heart
issues and he just went to thehospital and I just sent him a
text checking in on him.
How are you doing and I can'tprove this, maybe, but I I'm
(52:19):
pretty sure I'm probably one ofthe few people that actually
checked in on him from the site,because I genuinely care about
these guys.
Um, you know, these are my, mynow brothers in arms here in the
construction industry, but I'mloving all this stuff and I'm
going through your site as we'retalking about this industry.
But I'm loving all this stuffand I'm going through your site
as we're talking about this, um,and I don't care how good your
marriage is, I mean, it canalways improve, right?
(52:41):
So this is, this is all goodstuff, for sure.
No, it's, it's good man, and Iappreciate you, you sharing all
that, and it's it's the modernday nightcom for people who
don't know.
And uh, I love, I love thatfemale intelligence packet, um,
but people who don't know, anduh, I love, I love that female
intelligence packet, um, but Iappreciate you being in or
admitting the fact that youdon't have it all figured out
(53:01):
yet.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
I don't think any of us will, any man will, but
you're doing a good effort, forsure, it's a constant thing, and
I just want to clarify, by theway, a couple of years ago, um,
cause I, you know, I I stopped,uh like updating my website and
this, and that because I wasdoing some other stuff.
There's another company thattook that name and they call it
(53:22):
the Modern Day Night Project,and they did it in like 2019.
So if people type in the modernday, if they don't actually
type in wwwthemoderndaynightcom,then they may come up with MDK,
(53:45):
which is Modern Day Nightwithout the in front of it, and
that's another group that doessome other stuff in California.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
Yeah, well, and I would say so, I, I, I started a
nonprofit last year and we'rewe're still slowly getting it up
and running.
Um, there's never enoughorganizations like this to to
help you improve yourself andand, uh, you know your, your
relationships, whether it's yourmarriage or or at work, so I
appreciate what you're doing.
Um, so that's that, like, youknow your, your relationships,
whether it's your marriage or orat work, so I appreciate what
you're doing.
Um, so that's that, like yousaid, the modern day nightcom.
(54:21):
Um, and I'm on here.
So as soon as we get off thecall, man, you're going to see a
charge go through.
I'm buying it, okay, no, Ireally appreciate it, man, yeah.
Um so sort of in closing um, soif we've got folks that are,
that are transitioning out,maybe, yeah, all that, if I'm in
that position, what would yousay to me to encourage me to
give it a chance?
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Well, I think that if it's not one of those options
that you'd be considering, likeyou said, there's a huge, huge
room for growth and there's agreat need.
I mean, I was just at the LeanCongress conference in San Diego
last week and, man, I thinkthey said that currently, across
(55:29):
the country there's a shortageof like 685,000 construction
positions for all these projectsthat are up and running.
So they're running under fullstrength.
And so someone that'stransitioning out of the
military.
You may not have, or you may notthink that you have, a direct
(55:51):
skill that translates, but whatI will say is that if you've
been in the military for anumber of years and you know
what it's like to show up ontime, and you know what it's
like to take orders, to be partof a team, and if you've also
been in a leadership position asquad leader, a platoon leader,
a platoon sergeant or any ofthose then the industry
(56:13):
definitely really needs peoplewith that experience, because
you can learn how to swing ahammer or operate a concrete
truck or other things like that.
So those other skills make you avaluable asset, make you a
valuable asset right, so thatdiscipline and schedule and
(56:41):
planning and all those thingsmake military members a valuable
asset that could come into theindustry and there's a number of
different positions they canfill and it pays really, really
well actually, and so there's ashortage.
You have a skill set and skillsand experience that could be
used in the industry and it payswell and so and there's
longevity in it.
(57:01):
So even in recessions there'speople that are they're still
building things and stuff likethat.
Speaker 2 (57:08):
Yeah, Sort of seems like a no brainer right.
Speaker 1 (57:10):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
Well, cool, bill man.
I really appreciate it.
This was really cool to get toknow you and to hear your story
and, um, I'm sure this won't bethe last time we chat, man.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
Well, thank you for having me on your show, scott.
I appreciate it tremendously.
Uh, thank you for allowing mean opportunity to share that
story, and uh, I definitely lookforward to um not only watching
the industry grow, but umcultivating this relationship
with you and and uh do the bestI can to just be a contributing
(57:47):
member of society, you know.
Speaker 2 (57:50):
Outstanding.
I appreciate it, Bill.
Thanks, man Yep.
Thank you.
Have a great evening.
being a man.
It's not based upon how fastyou run, how strong you are, how
well you can shoot.
It's based on your characterthis is the construction veteran
podcast, connecting andcelebrating veterans in
(00:23):
construction now.
Now, here's your host, scottFriend.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
After a long and much needed break.
I'm Scott Friend.
Welcome back to theConstruction Veteran.
I'm excited to bring to youguys Bill McDonald, a tenured
Army Special Operations soldier.
Let's dig into it, hey, bill.
How are you sir?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I'm awesome Scott, Happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Awesome.
I love it, man, starting offwith the motivation.
So Bill and I have a mutualcontact in the industry and he
felt like Bill would be a goodguest on the show and I've
gotten to know him a little bitover email and prior to
recording the show, and I'mexcited to bring your story to
everybody.
So I want to talk real quick,bill, where are you from, and
(01:14):
tell me a little bit about yourservice background.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
All right.
Well, I'm going to caveat thisby saying I'm not necessarily
proud of where I'm from per uh,cause it's changed a lot, but
I'm from California originally.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, oh, no, yeah, we're cutting the recording now.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, a beautiful state man.
It's.
Uh, there's just the stateitself.
Top topography is beautiful,but it's changed so much that,
uh, I don't live there anymoreand, uh, neither is my family.
Um's, you know, it was nice,well, while we were there.
As far as my service background,you know I am I spent 31 years
(01:51):
in the military, 20 yearsenlisted and 11 years as an
officer, and I checked almostevery block in those 31 years I
I was enlisted, started out asan e1 I to E-8, transitioned
over to be an officer directcommissioned, and then I got out
as a major and I was spent sometime active duty, some time in
(02:14):
the Guard and some time in theReserves and I was a Special
Forces qualified soldier.
I was an 18 Delta and an 18Charlie.
18 Delta is a Special Forcesmedic and 18 Charlie is a
Special Forces engineer and Icrossed over and I was a civil
affairs officer and that's whatI retired at.
(02:36):
I do have several other MOSs inthere, specialties.
Those are the primary ones and,yeah, it was great initially
just to throw this out there forthose people that are in the
reserve components.
When I first went in thereserves or the guard, you know
(02:58):
I had certain assumptions aboutit, but I am very glad that I
was able to experience thereserves and the guard because
it actually allowed me tounderstand how those military
members can compliment whatactive duty does and the value
that they have and it can.
It's often underestimated andmisunderstood, so I'm thankful
(03:23):
for that experience.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, very cool.
You're actually the secondcivil affairs major I've had on.
I had Ryan Brents on.
I don't know if if that namerings a bell or if you guys ever
ran across each other, but Ihad him on as a guest last year.
So very unique community.
That um isn't talked about toomuch in in uh outside of special
operations, so it's a.
It's a neat role, can you?
Can you?
A lot of people know about whatSF is, but can you talk to me
about what civil affairs is?
(03:50):
Real quick?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, you know it's interesting because most people
they, um, they talk smack aboutcivil affairs Like they don't
really understand what a civilaffairs officer does.
But civil affairs they'rereally masters at building
rapport and establishing trustand so you know, they go in and
(04:16):
and it used to be, uh, back inthe nineties and before that,
where civil affairs teams weremade up of special forces guys.
It was a rotation when you leftthe team just to take a break
for a little bit you'd go into aspecial forces team and then
they took them away and thenthey transitioned to where it's
(04:39):
civil affairs.
They split it in half and it'ssome for special forces and some
for the regular army component.
But I always tell people, youknow, if you want to go into
business or internationalrelations or you just want to
understand people and you wantto be a good leader and manager,
civil affairs officer is a wayto go because you're constantly
(05:02):
interacting with local nationals, people of high positions in
the government, in both theUnited States government if you
go on certain missions as wellas foreign governments.
It's very unique.
But, man, does it really helpdevelop some personal skills?
(05:24):
Yeah, very cool man, does itreally help develop some
personal?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
skills.
Yeah, very cool, um, and solet's let's talk about what
you're doing now.
Man, you've only been out um ofthe reserves Correct me if I'm
wrong since 2022.
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah, January 18th 2022.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Very cool, and when did you transition off active
duty?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Uh, the last time I transitioned off of active duty
was 2006 actually.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Okay, and that was straight to the guard after that
.
Yes, very cool.
So, man, you did.
You're like the renaissance manin special operations, for sure
You've had.
You're like the Renaissance manin special operations, for sure
.
Yeah, did you.
So when you transitioned offactive duty, we'll get into what
you're doing now.
But did you get into yourcurrent role after that, or did
(06:15):
you kind of bounce around and doa couple different things?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
No, I did what a lot of special operations guys did.
I did some contracting andactually, um, my active duty and
guard time went back and forth,so, um, because I originally
got out in 2001 and then wentback in and then got out.
(06:42):
So what I did initially, when Igot off of active duty in my
first contracting job, was I wasthe co-director of the Afghan
Secret Service.
I mean, I'm sorry, I was on thepersonal protection detail for
Karzai Hamid Karzai, he's theguy we put into power in 2001.
And I was on that detail.
(07:03):
And then I later became theco-director of his secret
service.
I was, uh, appointed by thestate department very
interesting um gig.
And then, uh, when I came backhome, I pursued.
My other passion was his health,health and fitness.
I used to train athletes forliving in San Diego, and then I
(07:27):
got hurt, and that's a wholeother story and then I went to,
so I couldn't train athletesbecause I used to train with my
athletes, which is a littledifferent.
I didn't tell them what to do,I did everything with them.
So in San Diego I trainedtriathletes and I trained
marathon runners and somecrossfitters and some corporate
(07:49):
executives, and then I got hurtand I had some malpractice.
It was done to me and renderedme a.
I was classified as an amputeethere's a story behind that as
well and so I couldn't do thatprofession anymore.
At the same time that all thathappened, I was offered a job to
(08:09):
teach for a three-letter agencyin Virginia, and they didn't
care that I was doing physicaltherapy and that I was going
through surgeries and all thisstuff.
As long as I could teach, theysaid they welcomed me.
So I came to Virginia.
I taught for eight years almost10,000 students and it was kind
(08:35):
of a toxic environment.
So I was really looking forsomething else to do.
At the same time, I was tryingto do some coaching as well as a
head of coaching.
I have done that.
I've got a lot of training andeducation in that.
But at the time it reallywasn't paying the bills.
That's a tough market to getinto and so I just wanted to
(08:56):
transition into another careerfield where I could leverage my
leadership and rapport buildingand experience, and that's how I
got into this industry.
If you want details on exactlyhow that happened, I mean I can
tell you.
But bottom line is I waslooking last October for a
(09:17):
different thing to do that wouldleverage my skills.
That was outside of anythingthat had to do with government.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, let's, let's talk about that.
So how you?
You stumbled upon what you'redoing.
Now let's, let's discuss, kindof how we got introduced and
what you're doing in relation tothe construction industry.
What is it that you do?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
So I'm a consultant for lean construction in the
last planner system andoriginally, around September
October, a very good friend ofmine that I've known for like 25
years, he was involved in leanconstruction and he said hey, I
think we have some openings,bill, let me get you in contact
(10:00):
with the director and he'llinterview you and maybe, if it's
a good fit and you know, youcan come out here and you know,
I don't know what the detailsare.
And I said okay, what exactlydo you do?
And he gave me kind of a bigdescription, um, about problem
solving and things like that andplanning.
(10:21):
But uh, it wasn't exactly superclear.
And so I said what?
And he's an 18 and 18.
Uh, charlie too, he's a firstforce engineer.
I'm like, all right, well, you,I'm a charlie and I'm an
engineer and I know basicinstruction.
But, man, you're talking aboutthe commercial level.
That's like that's way above mypay grade.
(10:42):
And he goes trust me, yourexperience in special forces
planning, it's exactly what theyneed.
And, especially since you're anofficer, he was enlisted, we
were enlisted together.
He got out as enlisted at theE7 or E8.
And so I said well, you know,I'm willing to explore it, I'm
(11:03):
willing to find out moreinformation, and the guy that he
connected me with was anotherformer Special Forces guy that
had retired as a team sergeantand he gave me a better
explanation and so I spoke withhim and we, you know, talked
about well you know, there's alack of good structure and
(11:28):
planning the constructionindustry.
You there.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, I'm still here.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Oh well, I don't know what happened, my screen just
went dark.
Sorry about that.
Um and um.
So he went.
Uh, so he says you know,they're behind the timeline and
they're usually over budget.
There's usually not a very goodcommunication.
Uh, he said so.
(11:56):
You know, your experience inspecial forces as a civil
affairs officer has a directcorrelation to what the industry
is missing, and I'm like okay,all right.
So we did that interview andthen, um, at the same time I got
another job offer and uh, I hadto take it.
And so I took it and I wentoverseas for a little bit.
(12:19):
But I never heard back fromthis guy.
And so I'm like, okay, well,you know, um, I'm a direct, I'm
a very direct guy.
So whenever I'm like, okay,well, you know, um, I'm a direct
, I'm a very direct guy.
So whenever I'm done with likean interview process, I just
straight up ask the question isthere any reason that you can
see after the interview orwhatever the interaction is,
that you wouldn't hire me oroffer me a job?
(12:40):
And uh, he said, no, not, no,not at all.
I mean, yeah, you're exactlywhat I'm looking for.
I said, okay, great, he didn'tcall me back.
He took this other job overseas, but it was some unethical
business practices.
So I left that job, came back tothe States and I was looking
(13:00):
for something to get outside ofthe government.
And I get a call from this guy.
So I think it'd been five,maybe six months and he said,
hey, bill, it's so-and-so.
And I'm like oh, hey, how's itgoing?
He goes yeah, man, I got toapologize to you.
I I'm sorry I ghosted you, itwasn't intentional, but that
(13:21):
company I, I I had the feelingthat I was going to be leaving
the company.
I didn't want to bring you intothe company knowing that I was
leaving.
There was possibly some issues.
I'm like, oh okay, yeah, allright, he goes.
But I have another opportunity.
It's with this other MarineCorps captain that has got this
(13:43):
construction background and he'ssees a need in the industry and
he's going to start his owncompany.
And, um, he asked me if I wasavailable.
But I've got a really good gigwith another company.
Um, I wasn't ready to leave it,but I told him I knew exactly
who he should talk to and so canI give you his number or your
(14:06):
number?
And I said yeah, by all means.
And so that was how I wasintroduced to Andrew and his
company IndustrializedConstruction Partners, or IC
Partners and that's how I gotinto the industry.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Well, I speak for the industry man.
We're lucky to have a guy ofyour caliber, so I'm glad you
find your way and I'm sure youknow.
I know you haven't been in thisgig for too long, but I'm sure
you're already seeing someparallels between the service
and the construction industry.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
for sure, yeah, for sure, I've developed this skill
of looking at a situation orcircumstance and then just
translating it into experiencethat I've had, or vice versa.
And so, yeah, I've definitelybeen able to, although I was a
little hesitant to step into theindustry.
(15:01):
Since I've been in the industry, I have enjoyed it, uh,
immensely, and I have been ableto provide quite a bit of value.
And uh, well, those guys wereright, those those two sf guys
were right that, uh, my skillset translates nicely, um, to
the industry.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
So yeah for sure.
So so what was it like what?
What made you realize, okay,this is a good fit.
Um, seeing your background, Imean that's a drastic change
getting into construction.
I'm sure you you came with, um,maybe some misconceptions about
what construction might be and,uh, you know, like you said,
(15:42):
what the heck is lean, and wecan talk about that a little bit
.
So what was that transitionlike?
I mean, what made you feelcomfortable making that jump
into this industry?
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Well, at first, um, you know, sometimes we have to
be comfortable beinguncomfortable.
So I, uh, I had the interviewand you know, and obviously he
had my resume, looked at mybackground and everything and he
(16:12):
explained to me that you knowsome of the problems and the
issues, like you know, beingbehind schedule and over budget
and having poor communicationand things like that I'm like,
yep, I totally understand thatstuff and you know, I study
cognitive behavior as a hobbyand, um, put, put those things
into practice and I've, you know, taught over 15 000 students in
(16:33):
my lifetime, probably closer to20.
So one I thought, well, kind ofsounds to me like this is just
a variation of teaching.
Um, it's improvement, right,it's systems and organization
and structure and things likethat.
So I'm like, all right, youknow I can do that.
But the final interview stepwas to fly me to Texas and put
(16:59):
me in front of five industryprofessionals and put me in a
make pool, pool planning session.
You know, the pool planningsession is right, a base plan,
yeah yeah, let's, can we?
Speaker 2 (17:12):
can we sidetrack real quick and kind of talk about
what that is and and a littlebit about uh, last planner?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
yeah, so, um, the last planner system is a system
that was designed to optimizeplanning or make planning more
efficient for the constructionindustry, and it implements
something called backwardsplanning.
(17:39):
And backwards planning isforeign to a lot of the
corporate world, because most ofthe corporate world does
forwards planning, which is whatmost people are familiar with,
but backwards planning is howspecial operations plans their
missions.
So I had 26 years of experiencedoing backwards planning.
We do that as a civil affairsand civil affairs too, and so
(18:04):
you start at a milestone.
So you identify a milestone inthe future.
It can be six weeks, eightweeks, 12 weeks, but in some
parts of the industry six weeksis kind of standard, knowing
that it's hard to plan andpredict things that happen too
far in the future because youhave weather and all kinds of
other issues that happen too farin the future because you have
(18:25):
weather and all kinds of otherissues.
Right, but you identify amilestone and then you begin to
plan from the point of themilestone six weeks in the
future back to today, and sowhen some people have never
heard of it, hear about it,they're like this doesn't even
make sense.
There's no way we can predictwhat goes on in six weeks from
now, and that's not the point.
(18:47):
The point is we're going toplan this as if nothing were to
happen in the next six weeks andthen, as we do that, we will
begin to identify problems.
That's what I tell a lot ofpeople is if you just trust the
process, then what we're goingto figure out is that this
method of planning allows us toidentify problems early and
(19:08):
often and when you forward planin the construction industry and
other industries as well,there's a tendency to run right
into a problem like hit apothole, and then they're like
okay, now what do I do?
How do I deal with this pothole?
And it takes time and it takesmoney, which then costs other
(19:29):
issues for the project.
And if you do backwardsplanning or LPS last planter
system correctly, you canidentify a potential problem
three or four weeks in advance.
And my experience is you canmitigate those problems that you
experience up to 70 or 80% ofthe time.
(19:49):
So it's really incredible andwhen people really learn it,
they go, oh my gosh, like whyhaven't we done this before?
Unfortunately, there's a largepercentage of people that are
getting taught LPS in the wrongor the less less efficient and
less effective way.
Is that good, or do you want meto explain more about?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
it.
No, that's, that's perfect, andI think so.
I've been off active duty since2011 and I've seen the change
happen where a lot more peopleare adopting that system and to
me, when it was getting bigger,it just I'm going well, this
just makes sense.
Like, this is the way we shoulddo things.
Um, you know, what am I, whatam I not going to do today
that's going to impact me sixweeks in the future on the job
(20:33):
site, or what do I need to dotoday to make sure that that's
successful?
I guess it's a good way to putit.
Um, so it's.
It's neat seeing that it'sgotten so much traction over the
last decade, plus to where I'mseeing the industry.
Just, it's becoming the normnow.
That's just kind of the way weplan and the way we're supposed
to plan.
But I sidetracked you, I'msorry.
(20:56):
So we were talking about theparallels between what you saw
and kind of what made youcomfortable getting into this.
Yeah, kind of what made youcomfortable getting into this,
yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
So to go back to that , they told me what they were
going to do and I, I don't know.
I think most, most normalpeople would have been like, are
you kidding me?
Like no way, I'm not going tostand in front of five industry
professionals and go throughsome mock thing when I I didn't
come from this industry to beginwith, like what, but I don't
really have a problem, I'mcomfortable being uncomfortable
(21:25):
and I don't have a problem beingon stage and talking and things
like that.
So I said, all right, well, youknow, I'll take the challenge.
And so they brought me in thisconference room in Dallas, texas
.
You know I met these five guysthat didn't know me and I didn't
know them.
Well, that's not true, causeAndrew was one of them and We've
had plenty of conversations,and the other SF gentleman was
one of them as well, and theyjust they're like okay.
(21:51):
So they gave me, you know, abasic blurb on a project.
You know like hey, you've gotthis $130 million high school
that's being built and know thegroundwork's already been done
and the foundation's alreadybeen done and we're going to
rack.
And you know you've got thesteel guy and this and that, and
(22:12):
you know, I understood some ofthese terms and some of the some
of the concepts, but I'm like,okay, there's definitely some
things that I I'm familiar%familiar with.
I'm like, okay, all right, I'mlistening.
And then, hey, we have got to,we've lost some time, we've lost
like a month, and these aresome of the issues and stuff.
(22:35):
And hey, you're the one that'sleading this meeting with your
trade partners and you've got toget them back on track and
you've got to deal with some ofthe issues that you might
encounter.
And I'm like, okay, all righty,all right, let's start.
And so I stumbled initiallythrough the first little bit,
but then I got into whatever youwant to call it, the zone.
(22:58):
I got into the zone and I'mreally good at focusing on
solutions one and I'm reallygood at focusing on solutions
one, and I'm really good atreframing things and I'm really
good at redirecting people'sefforts and their focus.
And so, for example, you know,they threw at me some attitudes
(23:21):
that you know you might get froma steel guy or a framer.
Hold on a second.
Oh, my bad on that.
Um, so I can go back and makethis flow all right.
So, um, oh, man, lost my trainof thought, scott no you can
(23:45):
I thought I'd turned all myalarms off, everything, so let's
try this again.
So they threw some attitudes atme and then, you know, I just
dealt with the attitudes and Ididn't give the attitudes back
because, again, um, one of thethings that I do with all the
projects that I work on is Italk about rapport building and
I talked to them about teambuilding and everything else.
(24:05):
We can get into that in aminute, in a few minutes, but
anyway.
So they just kept throwingproblems at me and and and even
throwing turns that at the timeI didn't even really truly
understand.
You know, like, at the time Ididn't really truly understand
what a slab on grade was, youknow, or there's between a pilot
, a peer and so, but I knew thegeneral thing, like, okay, you
(24:25):
have a problem.
I understand, we have atimeline, we have to get this
done.
I'm like so let's focus on thesolution.
And you know, let's focus onthis.
And by the time I got done, theyall said you did an incredible
job, bill, bill.
It's like.
It's like did you make a greatsuperintendent?
I'm like what?
Oh, all right, cool, thanks,and so that that gave me some
(24:50):
confidence.
You know that that wholesituation and that I mean you
can call it a rehearsal, right,cause that's what we would call
it special forces, I guess.
But yeah, after that I'm like,okay, all right, sure, if you're
telling me that I did a fairlygood job and you know great.
So then I just shadowed Andrewon a couple of projects and he
(25:14):
introduced me and then I startedtalking to guys about problems
and identifying solutions,problems and identifying
solutions.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, I think I would liken it to what civil affairs
does?
I mean a lot of what we do like.
I'll give you an example.
I'm not an expert at any of thetrades.
I mean, I'm a carpenter bytrade, but I'm not an expert at
any of these trades.
A lot of it is just relationshipbuilding, trusting the team to
execute, and I'm just laying thegroundwork like okay, here's
(25:45):
the plan, and showing themwhat's on the horizon, what has
to be done.
But I I've likened the tradesbefore to like a warrant officer
.
So these guys are like I'm, Iwould be like the BC, so I'm
kind of given the commands ofhere's what we need to do.
But I'm leaning on these guysas the experts in their
individual fields and so I thinksometimes we overcomplicate the
(26:06):
industry where it really doesjust boil down to trust and
building those relationships,Cause I'm not going to build the
job myself.
I can't, I mean physically asone man, yes, but I can't.
I can't do all these things, Idon't have all the trade
expertise.
So I think it, it fits you well, man, and I'm really glad you
you found your fit in theindustry.
Um, so if if you were to go back, uh, maybe when you were
(26:31):
transitioning out or looking forwork, um, do you think, maybe,
that you would have followed thesame journey back into this
industry and try to find yourway, or was it just kind of a
fluke and it fell in your lap?
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Um, I went back.
Well, I mean, I think it's coolindustry, um, but I, I mean, I
kind of followed the path that.
I kind of followed the paththat I wanted to follow.
Um, I'm happy to be where I'mat right now and I, I'm, you
know, I, I believe God sets uson a specific path for a reason.
We experienced certain things,whether they're painful or that
are difficult, or they're notpainful and they're not
(27:22):
difficult, but, uh, so would Ido things over again?
No, I think I'm here at thetime, I'm here for a reason.
There's definitely a need.
In nine, I'm being successfuland welcomed, so, um, so I'm not
so sure if I would have changedit, because then I wouldn't
have had the other experiences Ihad.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, that's fair.
I don't think there's reallyany right or wrong answer to
that.
I'm just curious.
So I know I've stated what Ithink, what attributes that you
carried over.
But what do you think reallystands out that you've brought
to this industry that youlearned during your time in SF
and civil affairs?
You've brought to this industrythat you learned during your
(28:04):
time in SF and civil affairs.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Well, um, I liken being in this industry and work
with trade partners or going ondifferent projects as like a fit
mission.
So you know, movies are moviesand what you usually see in a
movie except for maybe theoriginal, you know green brain
movie that had John Wayne in itis we all go fight terrorists
(28:28):
and this and that.
But SF's primary mission haslargely been foreign internal
defense across the world sinceits inception, with the
exception of.
Yes, we have seven differentmissions and direct actions, one
counterterrorism, onecounterinsurgency.
But the bottom line is, youknow, a lot of this training in
(28:52):
foreign countries is what we do,so our teachers, our
instructors, and going to a newjob site and work with different
trade partners is kind of likethat, which means you can't use
the same exact techniqueeverywhere and the culture is
(29:13):
going to be slightly differentdepending upon where you go.
Like, construction workers inPhilly aren't going to be the
same as construction workers inTexas, aren't going to be the
same as construction workers inTexas, and so if you aren't
aware of your surroundings andyou can't pick up on and
identify the nuances anddifference in the methods of
communication, in the way thatthey think of things and you
(29:39):
can't adjust whether you're notgoing to be as successful as you
could be.
So I have a lot of experiencewith that, both in civil affairs
and special forces working.
I've been to 47 countries Ithink.
I've operated like the military, I think 19 of those 47
countries, and so I've met somesuperintendents and some other
(30:04):
old school guys because I'm inmy 50s, so it's not like I'm in
my 50s but I look a lot youngerAnother one of the reasons why
Andrew liked me because of that.
But anyway, they're set intheir ways and they're not going
to change and they are who theyare and they're just going to
do what they do.
Unfortunately, that doesn'talways work the best and so
(30:27):
there's friction.
That's unnecessary, right?
So that's one.
Two is I'm a solutions-focusedperson and I understand the
nuances of perspectives and thewords we use and so I can key in
on that and I can help redirectpeople.
And I'll tell you a quick story.
And that's one of thesuperintendents I was working
(30:52):
with, great guy, former Marine,former SF guy.
He was superintendent and whenwe first started working
together he would say all right,everybody, thank you for being
here.
I appreciate it.
My name is so-and-so, and Ijust want everyone to know that
I am really aggressive when itcomes to this type of stuff.
(31:15):
I'm really aggressive aboutmeeting timelines and in the
project and doing good work, andhe says this about the third
time.
I said hey, can doing good work, and you know he says this.
And about the third time I saidhey, can we just pause for a
second?
And he said yeah, yeah, bill,for all means.
I said let's talk about thewords that we use when we're
communicating with teams,because you know, sometimes the
(31:37):
words make the difference in therelationship and the way we're
perceived.
And he's like, okay, yeah, what, you know what'd you got?
And I said, well, I know youdon't mean anything negative by
it, but you know you like tostart these meetings out with.
You know I'm aggressive when Icome to this and that and
everything else.
And you pretty much have a roomfull of men in here that are
all the different tradesmenforemen and things like that.
(31:59):
And if it's not a consciousthing, it's a subconscious thing
.
It kind of raises or heightenstheir you know their sense.
There's just that word ingeneral, you know, a little
defensive, a little like whatyou know.
It.
Just it causes this subtleshift.
It's not a positive shift inhuman behavior, and so it goes.
(32:21):
Well, I don't, I didn't, I don't, I don't mean anything by like
you know, I, uh, I'm not.
I said I know, I know you'rejust passionate about your work,
right, you're a passionateabout?
Yeah, that's it, man, I'mpassionate and like so if we
change the word to somethingelse, does that be passionate?
Then you, you won't immediatelyget these guys in a heightened
(32:42):
state and then about like threeminutes later the rest of his
staff goes yeah, yeah, we agreewith Bill.
And he said well, why didn't yousay anything to me, like, why
didn't you guys tell me and ofcourse most people don't want to
ruffle the feathers of the bossor the guy they work for or
things like that, right, sothey're not necessarily willing
to say anything.
Or the guy they work for orthings like that, right, so
(33:03):
they're not necessarily willingto say anything.
So I can identify that stuffand communicate it in a a
non-abrasive way and get guys tochange and adjust to make the
relationships they have better.
And then I just talked to himabout specific points.
So I know I kind of went off ona little tangent, but it's.
(33:24):
My experience working with abunch of different people in
different countries, acrosscultural barriers and language
barriers has allowed me to beable to step into an environment
and assess it and then adjustmy approach, uh, so that I can
(33:46):
actually build rapport and trustthere.
And, uh, I understand bridgingtrust, which is something that's
eroding in the United States orhas eroded or is almost gone
actually, yeah, no, no, I mean Iappreciate the tangent man.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I mean the floor is yours on this and, like I said,
I want to share your story.
So, um, and again we, we see alot of parallels and, and what
you did and and what you'redoing now.
Um, I want to take a shift realquick too and talk about, uh,
mental health, which isobviously a major issue in in
the service and, as, as peopleare finally shedding some light
(34:23):
on it's, a big issue in theconstruction industry as well.
So, if you've had some peoplethat are maybe listening, that
are going through some stuff inthe service or in the industry,
what would you say Because Iknow this is a big part of your
personal mission and makingpeople their best what would you
say to try to encourage thatperson?
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Well, the first thing I would like to say is, if
you're experiencing struggleswith your mental health, it
doesn't mean you're weak.
I mean, I'm a green brain.
I'm going to be the first totell you that identifying the
fact that you have some mentalhealth struggles meaning you're
(35:06):
not yourself or you're just notright, you're not exactly sure
how to fix it.
Well, you don't have to haveall the answers.
I mean you don't right.
So that's why there areprofessionals out there, and
this is not the same as it was,you know, back in 2002 or
post-Vietnam.
I think it's a lot more widelyaccepted that that's just
(35:31):
something that service membersexperience and have experienced
for a number of differentreasons.
And so identifying andunderstanding it's not weak to
identify it, that's.
That's one point.
Two, seeking help, um, becauseyou're just not equipped and and
I'm a guy that you know hasalmost a dozen nos's um, and I
(35:55):
had to realize that I didn'thave an answer on how to deal
with some of the, you know,mental health stuff.
So I did something called emdr,uh, which is phenomenal, um,
for getting through certaintraumas, and I've had a whole
lifetime of trauma.
I mean, I was abused when I wasa kid too.
So, um, but uh, so anyway.
(36:16):
So, and that you're not broken.
Right, there's broken, and whenI say broken, I mean obviously
you.
You may not be thinking thesame way or your mental health
may not be as resilient as itwas before or as positive, or
things like that, but it'sfixable.
You know, they can make youpretty much whole, but you have
(36:46):
to be open about it and you haveto be willing to try something
new and different.
And you have to understand thatthose that seek help and get on
a mission to get better, that'sa true sign of strength.
But if you keep it to yourselfand you stay private about it
and or deny it, uh, it's justgoing to get worse.
(37:08):
It's like a slow poison, right.
So once it doesn't get fixed,it just gets worse and worse and
worse.
And we don't realize it becauseour perception starts to kind
of get skewed.
And so I tell people I seekthat help and understand there
are people out there that haveexperienced similar things to
(37:29):
you, that have sought help andthat have gotten better and
leading awesome lives and havetaken that trauma and used it to
help other people.
So I don't know, is that, doesthat work, scott?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
yeah, yeah, man, yeah , man.
Very well said, and that's kindof a good segue to into.
I want to talk about some ofthe work you're doing outside of
the consulting.
Can you share a little bitabout your personal work that
you're doing with people?
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Yes, so you know there's.
I went through a very deeppersonal struggle.
I mean, I've actually beenthrough a lot.
If I was a cat I probably wouldhave used up all night of my
lives.
But that whole situation when Iwas training athletes for a
living in California and, oh, bythe way, my career was starting
(38:20):
to really pick up, I waswriting articles, I was about to
be picked up by a majormagazine and, yeah, I mean I
mean that that career was doingpretty well.
So when I got hurt and then hadthis surgery that went poorly,
that led to three, foursurgeries in three States, in
(38:44):
three years of physical therapy,and at the age of 43, by the
way, I was in the best shape ofmy life.
This happened when I was 43.
And I was right-handed for 43years and I had to transition to
be a left-handed and my wifehad to feed me, by the way, and
dress me for a couple monthsbecause I couldn't do any of
(39:04):
that stuff and all that, butanyway.
So I went through some of that.
Just that's actually, I guess,ties into what you had we just
talked about, which is themental health thing, because at
that moment, at that time, um,that was such a massive shift in
my life that I I did getdepressed and I um,
interestingly enough, I never II never had really any PTSD.
(39:25):
Uh, scott, we in uh, from allthe combat and I used to get
shot.
I got shot at in South America,columbia, before nine 11
happened.
Um, and that's probably becauseI grew up in the inner city and
I got stabbed a few times and Isaw my first almost I was 16.
So you know, when people wouldask how could you not have any
(39:45):
PTSD from being over there inIraq and Afghanistan, I'm like I
have no idea.
Maybe it's because I was exposedto trauma earlier in my life
and it just faced with not beingable to use my right hand, and
(40:07):
even though I'm educated and I'mrelatively smart, my identity
was always based on myphysicality, centered on my
physicality, and so I wasquestioning what does it mean to
be a man, and was I going to bea man anymore?
Can I protect my family?
Can I do any of this otherstuff?
So, as I did that, I came tothis revelation that and being a
(40:32):
man, it's not based upon howfast you run, how strong you are
, how well you can shoot, it'sbased upon your character.
And so I wrote down what arethe characters of a true man,
and it just so happened I wrotedown 13 of them and I redefined
(40:54):
them, and 13, by the way, is myfavorite number.
I didn't do that on purpose,that's just when I got done
writing I was like, oh my goshand you know, integrity is the
number one of those charactertraits and I reframed them,
meaning I gave three differentdefinitions to each of these,
(41:16):
and that courage is one, andthere are all these that I felt
like, well, you know, this is amark of a true man.
And so, from that point forward, I endeavored to share that
with other men, because I couldsee that there's this slow
erosion of the definition ofwhat it means to be a man.
(41:39):
We've seen it.
It's been a slow thing, that'shappened over decades TV movies,
physicians and all these things.
And so you know, we're lackingin the United States of two
things the whole concept offamily and the definition of
what it means to be a man or afather.
(42:01):
And so I share these with guysand I change their perspective,
and I now have metaphors,because my wife and I we went
through this really tough periodas well.
Right after I came back from theMiddle East, I was over there
for five and a half years and itwas rough and it almost broke
(42:24):
my marriage apart and we wentthrough what's called what we
call five years of marriagecombat.
After that, when we made it andnow reflected back, or even
when I was going through thiswhole thing in 2015, 16, 17, I
would reflect back on that timeand I just had all these
revelations of these really coolexamples that I didn't have.
(42:47):
Then, in the middle of thatcombat with my wife, where I
just thought she was crazy and Ididn't understand what the heck
was going on with her, I goback, I think back and I'm like,
oh my gosh, man.
Okay, now I can relate that so.
So, with that said, I have thisthing.
It's an ebook.
It's called the 13 codes.
I think 15 or 15 to 20,000people have downloaded it over
(43:10):
the over the years.
But again, you know, I at thattime I didn't have the right.
You know I at that time didn'thave the right, you know people
to support me, and so I spent alot of money and put a lot of
effort and I had a greatFacebook presence and did this
other thing, but it just in theend.
It wasn't paying my bills and Iwas still going through a lot
of other stuff, so I had to putthat on pause for a little bit.
(43:32):
But I created something calledthe FIP, and so what I've, what
I've really been good at doing,is taking the things that I
learned in the military in inlike military planning, which I
use in the last planner systemand in construction.
But I've also helped men withtheir relationships.
I've helped some people not getdivorced.
(43:56):
I've helped some people improvetheir relationship with their
children.
I developed this thing.
So when you're in specialoperations, if you have a target
, you're given a tip, a targetintelligence packet.
In the packet it talks aboutall this different stuff about.
This is the target, this iswhere they eat on this day and
(44:19):
this way to get their haircut,and this and that right.
And we take that tip and wedevelop our plan and we
determine, okay, when and whereare we going to take the target
out.
And I took that and I turned itinto a FIP, a female
intelligence packet, and I wouldtalk to guys about how to
gather either intelligence ontheir spouse in a covert or an
(44:42):
overt way.
But the bottom line is part ofthe reason why your relationship
is losing track and it's notvery good is because you don't
really understand yoursignificant other.
And a lot of people argue.
And then I say, well, let meask you a couple of questions.
Um, and real quick, do you knowwhat the acronym PACE stands
for?
Scott?
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I don't offhand, but I'm real quick.
I'm on the website signing upfor the packet as we speak.
I'm listening to you but I'mand for those who don't know,
it's themoderndaynightcom.
So what is PACE?
Speaker 1 (45:17):
So PACE was originally built for
communications and I looked highand low on that, exactly where
it started and I think it was inVietnam, but it may have been
during the OSS days, but anywayit was for communication.
So it stands for primary,alternate, contingency and
(45:38):
emergency right and it'sbasically for communications on
the move or in the field or incombat situations or whatever.
You, if you don't havecommunications, you don't get
support, you don't get food, youdon't get ammo, you don't
intelligence, you don't get thatstuff.
Don't get ammo, you don'tintelligence.
You know you don't get thatstuff.
And so they developed this like,all right, we have to have four
(45:58):
methods of communication, wehave to have some backup ones,
of contingency ones, and so theycreated this so that you know
like, for example, um, normalfield radios, they're really
heavy and their batteries arereally heavy and they don't
carry.
You know they don't have a lotof power, meaning it's not like
it's a battery that lasts for 15hours.
(46:19):
You know, like iphones andthings like that, right, and so
you carry this big radio in thejungle or something like that.
There's only so many batteriesyou can carry with you, and if
you drop and you break it, andso they're like okay, we need
another form of communication,so you might have a smaller
handheld radio.
That was more like a line ofsight type of radio, right, um,
then you had um, morris code,which it couldn't have voice
(46:43):
communication.
Then the bandwidth you wouldneed wouldn't be nearly as much
for morris code.
And then you know, we'd alsocarry a hundred feet of wire and
a hundred feet of 550 cord, andthen you'd get a plastic spoon
out of mre and you'd cut six,three, six foot sticks and you
put them together in a triangleand you'd hoist this up and it's
(47:05):
called a jungle antenna and,man, you would be blown away at
what the communications youcould get.
Now, if there's combo guys outthere and there's 18 echoes out
there and please don't slay mebecause I didn't describe it all
I mean it's been a long timeand I did it a couple of times
earlier in my career.
So if I got some details wrong,I'm not claiming to be the
(47:29):
expert, I just you know what Imean.
So I don't want someone to comeback.
But anyway, generally speaking,I think I got that concept
right.
I've done it a few times, maybemany years ago, and it was
really cool.
So when I learned that pace,when I learned it in SF, we
pretty much operate on pace foreverything.
So if you had to plan a mission, not just commo but okay,
(47:53):
what's the primary way we'regoing to hit this target?
What's the primary?
Oh, on a Monday at eighto'clock while he's getting his
haircut.
And then, if that didn't work,we'd immediately float to
another plan.
We'd have to go back to thedrawing board, take another
couple of days to figure it out.
We will have already figuredout four courses of action based
on different criteria, and thenwe could just fluidly execute
(48:17):
those things right.
And so I've taken that pace andI took it to the fip and I also
bring it to lps.
But I tell guys okay, what'syour wife's favorite flower?
Most of the time they're not100.
Sure, they just assume it's arose, and so they'll be like a
rose.
They said do you know that fora fact or you're just assuming
because you think all women likeroses?
You're like well, I'm, yeah, mywife loves roses, is it?
(48:41):
Have you ever asked her?
She told you.
And sometimes you're like, well, uh, I don't like, because my
wife doesn't like roses.
And then the second favoriteflower she's the carnations.
And so I'm like what's yourwife's second favorite flower?
I'm'm like, well, I, I don'tknow.
Um, let me say something.
Or say carnations.
I'm like do you know that for afact or are you just assuming?
(49:01):
And I'm like well, what does itmatter?
I mean, if I just buy roses andlike, what else are sold out of
the roses?
What's your wife's favoritecolor?
What's your second favoritecolor?
And I asked all these questionsand then they then they're like
I don't know, I guess not.
I'm like see, so if you don'tknow those facts what's your
favorite meal?
What's your favorite thing todo, what's your love language
(49:22):
then the way that you'reinteracting, communicating with
your spouse, you may be way offman.
You may be sending thesesubconscious messages that I
don't, you don't really care.
Now I'm going to caveat this bysaying I haven't mastered this
myself, scott.
Um, so you know, it's still afluid thing and sometimes these
(49:45):
things change, but nonetheless,when you get to know your
significant other to that detail, then your ability to
communicate more effectively ormore empathetically becomes
better.
And then other things just getbetter.
Right, their perception that,whether you care or not, it just
(50:08):
gets better because you'remaking these slight adjustments
and changes, and so, anyway, Ireally like doing that.
That's what I like to do, um.
I'll also ask guys about theirintegrity, and it's cool.
I personally, in my lifetime,has spent probably a hundred
thousand dollars in personaldevelopment.
I mean, I've been a Tony Robbins, uh, I've been, you know, um.
(50:30):
But the problem with that is isa lot of people don't walk away
with actual tools to implementfrom that $4,000 they spent in
those four days.
They're just motivated for acouple days or a couple weeks.
They feel really good and theysay they can do that.
They don't really walk guyswith tools and I tell them look,
(50:56):
you know, if you just changethe way you operated on a daily
basis and focused on charactertraits, like these 13 codes and
I'm like there can be 12, youcan pick different ones and they
don't have to be the 13 thatI've picked, 12, you could pick
different ones and they don'thave to be the 13 that I've
(51:18):
picked, um you would magicallysee your life significantly
changed, um.
And if we have time or there'sinterest and I can, I can give
an example of the integritything, um, during the podcast,
or we can do another one, butit's usually eyeopening for most
guys.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Yeah, no, I love this and kind of liking it to the
industry.
I'm not going to go ask thetrade foreman his favorite
flower, but uh, you know there's.
There's a lot of power ingetting to know your people too.
Um, you know, I've heard peopletalk about like knowing people
on a first name basis.
That holds a lot of power to it.
I try to make it a point toshake hands with the guys on the
(51:55):
job site every morning, youknow, just reaching out and
saying good morning or how areyour kids and people really
appreciate that Like, I take ageneral, a genuine interest in
you as a person.
Before I do, like, I'll giveyou a quick example.
I have a guy on my job sitethat, uh, he's had some heart
issues and he just went to thehospital and I just sent him a
text checking in on him.
How are you doing and I can'tprove this, maybe, but I I'm
(52:19):
pretty sure I'm probably one ofthe few people that actually
checked in on him from the site,because I genuinely care about
these guys.
Um, you know, these are my, mynow brothers in arms here in the
construction industry, but I'mloving all this stuff and I'm
going through your site as we'retalking about this industry.
But I'm loving all this stuffand I'm going through your site
as we're talking about this, um,and I don't care how good your
marriage is, I mean, it canalways improve, right?
(52:41):
So this is, this is all goodstuff, for sure.
No, it's, it's good man, and Iappreciate you, you sharing all
that, and it's it's the modernday nightcom for people who
don't know.
And uh, I love, I love thatfemale intelligence packet, um,
but people who don't know, anduh, I love, I love that female
intelligence packet, um, but Iappreciate you being in or
admitting the fact that youdon't have it all figured out
(53:01):
yet.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
I don't think any of us will, any man will, but
you're doing a good effort, forsure, it's a constant thing, and
I just want to clarify, by theway, a couple of years ago, um,
cause I, you know, I I stopped,uh like updating my website and
this, and that because I wasdoing some other stuff.
There's another company thattook that name and they call it
(53:22):
the Modern Day Night Project,and they did it in like 2019.
So if people type in the modernday, if they don't actually
type in wwwthemoderndaynightcom,then they may come up with MDK,
(53:45):
which is Modern Day Nightwithout the in front of it, and
that's another group that doessome other stuff in California.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
Yeah, well, and I would say so, I, I, I started a
nonprofit last year and we'rewe're still slowly getting it up
and running.
Um, there's never enoughorganizations like this to to
help you improve yourself andand, uh, you know your, your
relationships, whether it's yourmarriage or or at work, so I
appreciate what you're doing.
Um, so that's that, like, youknow your, your relationships,
whether it's your marriage or orat work, so I appreciate what
you're doing.
Um, so that's that, like yousaid, the modern day nightcom.
(54:21):
Um, and I'm on here.
So as soon as we get off thecall, man, you're going to see a
charge go through.
I'm buying it, okay, no, Ireally appreciate it, man, yeah.
Um so sort of in closing um, soif we've got folks that are,
that are transitioning out,maybe, yeah, all that, if I'm in
that position, what would yousay to me to encourage me to
give it a chance?
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Well, I think that if it's not one of those options
that you'd be considering, likeyou said, there's a huge, huge
room for growth and there's agreat need.
I mean, I was just at the LeanCongress conference in San Diego
last week and, man, I thinkthey said that currently, across
(55:29):
the country there's a shortageof like 685,000 construction
positions for all these projectsthat are up and running.
So they're running under fullstrength.
And so someone that'stransitioning out of the
military.
You may not have, or you may notthink that you have, a direct
(55:51):
skill that translates, but whatI will say is that if you've
been in the military for anumber of years and you know
what it's like to show up ontime, and you know what it's
like to take orders, to be partof a team, and if you've also
been in a leadership position asquad leader, a platoon leader,
a platoon sergeant or any ofthose then the industry
(56:13):
definitely really needs peoplewith that experience, because
you can learn how to swing ahammer or operate a concrete
truck or other things like that.
So those other skills make you avaluable asset, make you a
valuable asset right, so thatdiscipline and schedule and
(56:41):
planning and all those thingsmake military members a valuable
asset that could come into theindustry and there's a number of
different positions they canfill and it pays really, really
well actually, and so there's ashortage.
You have a skill set and skillsand experience that could be
used in the industry and it payswell and so and there's
longevity in it.
(57:01):
So even in recessions there'speople that are they're still
building things and stuff likethat.
Speaker 2 (57:08):
Yeah, Sort of seems like a no brainer right.
Speaker 1 (57:10):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
Well, cool, bill man.
I really appreciate it.
This was really cool to get toknow you and to hear your story
and, um, I'm sure this won't bethe last time we chat, man.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
Well, thank you for having me on your show, scott.
I appreciate it tremendously.
Uh, thank you for allowing mean opportunity to share that
story, and uh, I definitely lookforward to um not only watching
the industry grow, but umcultivating this relationship
with you and and uh do the bestI can to just be a contributing
(57:47):
member of society, you know.
Speaker 2 (57:50):
Outstanding.
I appreciate it, Bill.
Thanks, man Yep.
Thank you.
Have a great evening.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.