July 15, 2025 • 59 mins
The CopDoc Podcast - Season 8 - Episode 156
Chief Jim McDonald's journey in law enforcement reads like a masterclass in adaptive leadership. From his bold decision to leave Boston for Los Angeles with just $400 and two suitcases to his current role leading one of America's largest police departments, McDonald exemplifies how stepping beyond comfort zones catalyzes professional growth.
The conversation reveals McDonald's approach to leadership transitions across three major departments – LAPD, Long Beach PD, and LA Sheriff's Department – before returning to lead LAPD. Rather than imposing previous methods, he entered each organization with respect for existing traditions while bringing fresh perspectives. "I did make some changes but tried to be respectful of the organization and its history," he notes, demonstrating how balancing innovation with cultural awareness builds effective leadership.
McDonald's candid assessment of modern policing challenges is particularly compelling. While facing critical staffing shortages (1,400 officers below authorized strength), unprecedented natural disasters, and civil unrest, his department still achieved a 30% reduction in homicides. This success stems from his commitment to both operational excellence and human connection – listening more than talking, valuing diverse perspectives, and ensuring officers have proper wellness support.
Perhaps most thought-provoking is McDonald's reflection on how the profession has evolved. Today's officers must navigate increasingly complex social dynamics, particularly mental health crises, while maintaining tactical readiness. "We need someone who can be compassionate with a traumatized child, then rush into a school to stop an active shooter," he explains, highlighting the multidimensional skills modern officers require.
As LAPD prepares for world-stage events including the 2026 FIFA World Cup and 2028 Olympics, McDonald's experience across multiple departments provides unique insights into building cooperative security frameworks. His optimism about policing's future, grounded in admiration for incoming officers' innovative perspectives, offers hope for a profession facing unprecedented challenges.
Discover why McDonald believes getting uncomfortable is essential for professional growth and how his seasoned leadership is reshaping LAPD for 21st century challenges. His journey proves that sometimes the most valuable career moves are the ones you initially resist.
Blog Post
Contact us: copdoc.podcast@gmail.com
Website: www.copdocpodcast.com
If you'd like to arrange for facilitated training, or consulting, or talk about steps you might take to improve your leadership and help in your quest for promotion, contact Steve at stephen.morreale@gmail.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro-Outro (00:00):
Welcome to the CopDoc podcast.
This podcast explores policeleadership issues and innovative
ideas.
The CopDoc shares thoughts andideas as he talks with leaders
in policing communities,academia and other government
agencies.
And now please join Dr SteveMorreale and industry thought
(00:22):
leaders as they share theirinsights and experience on the
Cop Doc Podcast.
Steve Morreale (00:29):
Hey again everybody.
Coming to you from Boston,steve Morreale is the Cop Doc
Podcast and we are beginninganother episode and I have the
distinct pleasure to talk to afriend, a thought leader beyond
belief, jim McDonald, the chiefat the Los Angeles Police
Department.
I've known Jim for we've knowneach other for 40 years and I'm
so glad I've watched him riseand move and now he's back.
(00:52):
So I didn't think you weregoing to make it, jim, with
everything that's going on.
I'm so appreciative, butwelcome to the podcast.
Thank you, steve.
I appreciate you having me on.
No problem, you have some greatperspective, which I think is
so important, and most peopleknow your trajectory.
A Boston guy like myself andyou went out on a lark to Los
(01:14):
Angeles right after school.
A St Anselm graduate up inManchester, new Hampshire Just
tell us that little piece aboutyou showing up at LA knowing no
one.
Jim McDonnell (01:26):
Yeah, I look back on that and I think I must've
been nuts.
I wanted to get on the Bostonpolice department at the time
and they had just laid off 25%of their department due to a tax
cutting measure prop two and ahalf.
As a result, they would have tohire back everybody laid off.
So any anybody with up to 11and a half years on the job
potentially was falling intothat mix.
Steve Morreale (01:48):
So it would be at the back of the line for that
right.
Jim McDonnell (01:51):
Very, very bottom of the list and it would be at
least six or seven years beforethere would be a shot there.
So I looked around the countryto see where there was
opportunity and back when wewrote letters.
I wrote letters to all thesedepartments to get information
and I was looking for anorganization that had a good
reputation and that was hiring.
And so I looked around and LAhad both.
(02:12):
Although I never thought I'dhave a shot at getting on the
LAPD I had grown up with Adam 12and Dragnet and all the other
shows.
It was kind of something thatwas aspirational but probably
not realistic for somebody from3,000 miles away with a Boston
mindset that you don't get hiredunless you have somebody
speaking for you.
And I didn't know a soul.
(02:33):
And so I came out during springbreak, my senior year in college
, took the out-of-town testingprogram, spent a week and came
back and they sent me a lettersaying you did well on the test,
come back out and finish it.
So I graduated, I had twosuitcases, gym bag, $400 to my
name, and I took the plane outand stayed in a very low-end
(02:58):
motel in Hollywood.
You got to know the people, huhyeah, yeah, it was pretty
interesting and I went throughthe rest of the testing and then
got a job offer that I wouldstart the academy in two weeks.
So thankfully the departmentfound me a job just to keep me
going for two weeks and startedthe academy and spent the next
29 years with LAPD and lookingback, you know I'm so happy I
(03:22):
made that decision to go westbecause, although there were
obstacles, family and friendsleft behind, it was something
that I could not have probablyreplicated anywhere else the
experiences, the friendship, thechallenges.
It was a great experience.
Steve Morreale (03:36):
Well, you've done well, my friend, but I have
to tell you I will share astory I'll never forget.
You were a commander at thetime and you called me and I
thought you were nuts and Idon't know if you remember this
call.
But, steve, I put my hat in thering for chief and I said what?
Jim McDonnell (03:52):
Yeah, yeah, I certainly remember the
circumstances.
Steve Morreale (03:56):
You actually made it to the top of the list
and at that point in time ourcolleague Bill Bratton got the
nod and he brought you in as anassistant chief and ultimately
as the first assistant chief,and so you worked with them for
a while, for a long while, andyou did some amazing things.
Let me ask you this question,commander how was it that you
(04:24):
were able to understand andrecognize how your role was
changing as you were moving upwith more responsibility?
Where did you learn that?
Jim McDonnell (04:35):
How did you assimilate that?
Well, lapd was pretty goodabout putting you through
courses.
Once you made you know asergeant school, watch commander
school, uh, and then, uh,executive development courses.
Steve Morreale (04:47):
So part of it was, I think, in a formal way
but I think, more importantly,and certainly probably more, as
you went through and you were,just talking to you had some
executive development courses,so the courses itself.
But there had to be other otherways that you learn attending
conferences, having good bosses,having bad bosses and
(05:08):
understanding what to avoid.
Jim McDonnell (05:10):
No, absolutely, and I think that every day was a
learning experience andcertainly an opportunity to
learn something you didn't knowthe day before.
And, like you mentioned, Ilearned a tremendous amount from
good people, watching them lead, watching them take new roles
and how they adapted to that.
And I learned as much frompeople who took new roles and
didn't do so well and lessonslearned from there.
(05:32):
And the cheapest lessons areones you get by watching someone
else, but probably as valuableas ones you would get yourself
through some setbacks.
So I tried to do that and Itried to be as open as I could
to new ways of thinking, to takean advantage of every
opportunity I could to be ableto travel and to take courses
IACP, PERF and anyone who wasputting on a course and if I had
(05:57):
to pay for it myself, I didthat.
You came to Harvard.
Steve Morreale (06:00):
I remember meeting you then, yeah.
Jim McDonnell (06:02):
I've had the opportunity to go back there
several times now and every timeyou go to these courses, if you
treat it, I think, with theright attitude, you can learn an
awful lot.
If you go there as some do, andpassively sit there and take in
what you know, what comes theirway, I don't think you get as
much out of it.
I have been blessed, I think,with the opportunities that I've
(06:22):
been able to take advantage ofand also just, I think, being
stubborn and refusing to quitand keeping your eye on your
goals and working hard to getthem and, during the setbacks,
doing what you can to be able toget readjusted and then go back
in the game and focus and workhard, and sometimes good things
happen when you do that.
Steve Morreale (06:42):
Well, and it strikes me that you're a
lifelong learner, that you're ahumble guy.
I mean, you realize I'm sensingand I'm talking to you, the
chief of the Los Angeles PoliceDepartment you still, I still
don't know everything.
You're still learning on adaily basis.
You know, how do you not admitthat?
But how do you recognize thatyou still are open to new ideas,
(07:04):
still looking for newopportunities, still trying to
draw things out of the peoplethat they didn't even know they
had to make the organizationbetter.
Jim McDonnell (07:13):
Sometimes we have the ability to see something in
someone else that they don'tsee in themselves, and so if you
can set them up for success byputting them in a position,
maybe, that they didn't want andI've been in that role myself
where I've had jobs that Iabsolutely did not want that job
, and then when I left that job,I look back and think to myself
there's no way that I wouldhave gone there on my own, but
(07:36):
the value that I got fromsitting in that chair was
something that served me wellfor the rest of my career and
continues to serve me today.
So I think that realizing inyourself, trying to be realistic
, knowing that every one of usis subject to a mistake that
could be international news onany given day, and every
(07:57):
decision you make certainlyaffects someone in your
organization or someone in thecommunity.
So to try and be as judiciousas you can, try and be as
thoughtful and try and look 360at everything that's put before
you and see, you know, from amore nuanced approach than maybe
you would ordinarily do, whatimpact is this going to have on
(08:18):
everybody that's involved inthis?
And you can never pleaseeverybody, but as much as you
can, it's good to try and beaware of the impacts that your
decision will have on so manyothers.
Steve Morreale (08:29):
So one of the things that strikes me, and I
think that's so unique inpolicing and you belong to
associations, whether it's Calchiefs or the LA County chiefs
and certainly ICP and thenational sheriff's association
there are a lot of people thatyou have encountered who are
(08:49):
single dimension because they'vealways been in one organization
right, I'm not.
I'm not knocking that.
I don't think that's a badthing.
By the same token, you becamethe chief at long Beach.
You became the sheriff for avery large organization in the
Los Angeles Sheriff's Departmentour office and with that has
(09:12):
different cultures and with thisyou took your experience and
grabbed new experiences fromthose.
How did you learn?
How did you?
When you left I know you canalways take people, your own
people, and I know you balk atthat.
I know you balk at that Tell meyour point of view and your
(09:33):
learning, your metamorphosisfrom one agency to another and
now back full circle to LA.
Jim McDonnell (09:39):
Yeah, yeah, no, you know I have been blessed.
I look at the opportunities.
When one door closed, anotheropen.
You just have to be willing todo what it takes to go through
that door.
And I looked at when I leftLAPD.
My whole adult life had been inthe organization.
I love the organization andLAPD has their own way of doing
(09:59):
things.
So I remember a very humblingexperience when I went to Long
Beach as chief and check out acar and get in the car, turn on
the police radio and listen fora couple of minutes to calls
coming out and I don't know whatthey're talking about.
They use a whole different codesystem and it was something
that for a guy.
Steve Morreale (10:17):
Should I go?
Is this an important call?
Jim McDonnell (10:20):
For someone who had at the time almost three
decades in the business and I'min an organization right next
door to where I left, and torealize that a guy coming out of
the academy knew more aboutthis particular aspect than I
did, it was humbling.
It told me that, hey pal, yougot a lot to learn here.
And I went in there and my hopewas to be able to learn about
(10:40):
the department, to respect thetradition and the culture and
the way it's organized, learnabout the department to respect
the tradition and the cultureand the way it's organized, but
to be able then to also bring ina set of fresh eyes, to be able
to look for opportunity thatmaybe someone who had been there
a long time didn't see andwouldn't be expected to see.
So I did make some changesgoing in there but also tried as
much as I could to berespectful of the organization
(11:02):
and the history and tradition ofthe organization.
And I think you know initiallyit was bumpy at first.
I'm an outsider coming in fromLAPD, which was not something
that was welcomed in the culture.
And I think in, you know, insix months or so we were able
together to overcome that and beable to be on a path where we
(11:23):
were trying to make each otherbetter each day, and I look back
fondly on my experience andtime at Long Beach PD.
Steve Morreale (11:31):
So we're talking to Jim McDonald.
He is at his home in Californiatoday.
He's the chief of the LosAngeles Police Department.
It strikes me too that well,I'll explain.
When you were telling thatstory about getting in the car
and not knowing their 10 code,or whatever they were talking
about, it was the same thing.
I left from DEA, went to HHSand I'm sitting in a meeting and
you know how we love acronyms,right?
(11:52):
And I swear to God, I had asteno pad.
I must have written 40 terms.
And I walked out of my officeand I said to my secretary will
you let me know what the hellall this stuff means?
because I have no idea, I'm sureyou felt the same way, Like
what the hell does this mean?
I assume it happened when youwent to LA County too?
Same sort of?
Jim McDonnell (12:09):
thing?
Absolutely it did.
It's funny because threeorganizations LAPD, long Beach
PD and LA Sheriffs they're allright next to each other, they
all abut each other'sjurisdictions and yet there are
three very different culturesand so for me, going from one to
another to another and thenback again, it's kind of almost
a full circle in a relativelysmall geographic area.
(12:30):
But I feel like I learned somuch.
Getting out of my comfort zonewas probably the best thing that
could have happened to me asfar as development, and often I
think we avoid that.
We want to stay comfortable,particularly as we get a lot of
time on the job.
We feel we've earned theability to be comfortable and
(12:50):
know people know where to go,what to do and how to do it.
But really the growth comesfrom discomfort and from pushing
yourself beyond where you werehappy.
Steve Morreale (12:58):
I'm assuming you have this experience At some
point in time.
What wants to come out of yourmouth is well the way we did it
at LAPD when you were at LongBeach.
And I think you probably had tosay that three or four times
before somebody didn't slap youbut said it doesn't really
matter what you did at LAPD.
Is that a fair assessment?
Jim McDonnell (13:14):
Yeah, I went in, I think, eyes wide open on that,
because I had watched, as youmentioned earlier, so many
others go places from LAPD andtry and do exactly that to try
and turn another organizationinto an LAPD.
And that didn't work.
And if you don't go inrespectful of the culture of the
people that you're going to beworking with, you've got two
(13:35):
strikes against you right there.
And so what I did try to do ismake it the best Long Beach PD
or the best LASD that we couldbe, and not try and replicate
what we had at LAPD.
And likewise, going back toLAPD now, after a 15-year gap, I
see opportunities there.
Things are different than theywere when I left there.
(13:57):
In many ways the culture haschanged in society as well, but
it's still the organization Igrew up with.
I'm very comfortable.
I feel like I went back home asfar as culture, tradition,
procedure, policy, those kind ofthings.
But there are some differencestoo, and the tools, the
technology, the tactics that weuse have evolved over time and I
(14:17):
think we're a betterorganization now than we were
previously.
We just have to be able to keepthe human side in alignment
with the technology side, thetactical side.
Steve Morreale (14:29):
So there are a few things that I'm writing down
, but what I'm hearing is thatyou walk in with an open mindset
.
You don't come in with a fixedmindset.
You have a growth mindset andI'm assuming, as you're talking
to people and you're assessingpeople around the table, no
matter what organization youwalked into, right, you're
inheriting a new group of people, and even people who you worked
(14:50):
with, who have climbed theladder, had some different life
experiences, you know,respecting that they have a
perspective that might be ofvalue.
And how important has it beenfor you and I think you've
always been this way but tolisten, to ask a question, to
probe a little bit and listenand get input from the people,
(15:11):
someone's perspective other thanyours.
Jim McDonnell (15:14):
I think maybe it's selfish on my part, but I
learn a lot more by listeningthan I do by talking, and so I
want to learn as much as I can,and I want to be able to hear
from people I have theopportunity to work with.
What are their thoughts, whereare they coming from and make
judgments on?
Where is the best fit for thatperson, where is their skill set
strongest, and how do we takeadvantage of the talents that
(15:37):
each of our folks bring to thetable that we might not
otherwise know?
It might not be on the resume,it might be something they've
done that they don't talk aboutin their personal life.
You know many of the people,sadly, over the years.
I can't tell you how manyfunerals I've been to, and when
you hear the eulogy about whatpeople did off duty, you wish to
God you knew about that whenthey were still with us, because
(16:00):
they were stellar, stellarpeople, citizens beyond policing
Right In ways that we reallyweren't aware of and had we
known, we would have probablylooked at them maybe in a little
bit of a different light, butmaybe also had the opportunity
to be able to capture some ofthose talents and be able to
channel them into the work we'redoing on duty.
Steve Morreale (16:19):
So listening is important.
The human element is important.
So you walk back into la.
Let's talk about your currentjob as you returned in november
the fires, some of the some ofthe active stuff going on in the
city now, and yet, at that sametime and I'm always talking to
(16:41):
people when we're watchingthings on TV but regardless of
what's going on in this place,this still calls for service
somewhere else and we still haveto meet that.
And something you said theother day really struck me, and
it was that we're the LAPD andno matter who calls for help,
(17:04):
we'll do our damnedest to getthere and help.
Yeah, I think that was quitethe statement, because it
reminded people that that's whatyou're there for to help.
Yeah, when the call comes in.
Intro-Outro (17:14):
We're going to come .
Steve Morreale (17:15):
So tell me how you drive that through the
organization and remind peopleof mission and purpose.
Jim McDonnell (17:22):
We have an organization that has a very
strong culture, a very strongtactical officer safety focused
culture that's been developedover many decades.
I think part of that is becausewe are deployed so leanly and
that we need to be able to bethere for each other to back
each other up in order to beable to go home at night safely,
and so when I look at where weare when I came back, we're
(17:45):
1,400 officers down from wherewe should be.
We should be actually probablya lot better deployed than that,
even for the officer topopulation ratio that this city
has versus many others acrossthe country.
So we're trying to recruit.
We've gotten some support fromthe council to be able to move
forward with recruiting efforts,so I'm hopeful that we will
(18:08):
have an impact there.
I'll do a shameless plug.
If somebody's interested, weare hiring.
It is a great job and we juststarted a recruitment campaign
that, if somebody was interested, it's wwwlapdunrivaledcom.
Lapdunrivaledcom and I thinkit's well done.
(18:28):
It was a third-party marketingfirm that put that.
There's a video on there that Ithink is pretty compelling and
it shows the stuff you wouldexpect on a recruitment video
the action, the running fromcall to call, the different
types of specialized units.
We have the various thingspatrol do, but it also shows the
human side, the compassion, theneed for character, the ability
(18:51):
to be able, at the end of theday, to look back and think that
you were able to help somebodyon the worst day of their life
manage it just a little bitbetter.
And so I think it's a minute 45seconds but, I thought,
exceptionally well done.
So I would invite all yourlisteners just to take a look
and see what they think on that.
But we are hiring.
We've got the same problemsthat police organizations across
(19:12):
the US and Canada have, that,for a number of reasons, people
don't want to be police officerstoday the way they did when we
came on, and so that's thechallenge we're going to have to
overcome, and I think we dothat by being more transparent,
by showing people what the jobis and what it isn't, and we've
too often allowed Hollywood totell people what police do and
(19:32):
what they don't do and to painta picture of us in a way that
sells movies and series but maynot tell the true story on what
our role in society is.
And I think, if we can go backto showing the nobility of the
profession to show that we takepeople at generally 21 years old
, with whatever life experiencethey have, and test them.
(19:54):
And you know the latest thenumbers before COVID were for
every hundred people who appliedto be a Los Angeles police
officer, four made it to theacademy, three made it through
the academy.
So extremely selective.
But then we take that personwith whatever life experience
they bring, put them through asix-month academy and try and
prepare them for what they'regoing to see out there on the
street.
They graduate, they get in thefield and they're paired up with
(20:18):
a training officer for a periodof time and then, once that's
over, they're going to be withwhoever they are assigned to
work with for the rest of theircareer.
They're going to sit in thatblack and white and get radio
calls directed their way thathandle a broad spectrum of
societal ills.
(20:38):
The dysfunction of our societyis played out on the radio in a
police car, call after callafter call, and many of these
calls are extremely complex.
They're not something that youcan go and address in two
minutes and expect that you'vegotten some resolution.
Many more calls today deal withpeople who are undergoing a
mental health crisis.
(20:59):
And you get there and if yousent out, instead of a police
officer, if you sent a trainedpsychiatrist or psychologist,
their response would be to seethe person four or five times to
be able to diagnose their issue, medicate them, change the
medication to try and make itappropriate for them and then do
follow-up visits once thediagnosis is made.
Then monitor them, change themedication to try and make it
appropriate for them and then dofollow-up visits Once the
diagnosis is made, then monitorthem going forward and we get a
(21:22):
cop out there and he better getthere fast.
Once you get there fast, nobodyever calls you when the person
who has these issues, if they'renot in a crisis, if they're not
acting out on the illness in apotentially violent way, so the
officer gets there and they haveto de-escalate it as quickly as
they can, if they can, and tryand be able to get that person
(21:43):
referred to appropriatetreatment.
Often that person wants nothingto do with Kona treatment or
dealing with the officer whoresponded and, as you can
imagine, the lights and thesiren and the uniform and the
badge and the command presenceare all triggering events for
someone who's undergoing acrisis, and so we need, as a
society, to do better, to haveother tools than police officers
(22:05):
rolling out to calls like thisand expecting them then to be
right 100% of the time andamazingly, we're right 98% of
the time or better, and it'sjust miraculous that we're able
to do what we do with the toolsthat we have to deal with some
very highly nuanced and complexissues.
And yet our folks do it day inand day out.
(22:27):
And while we talk abouttechnology as a force multiplier
, it's great to make us moreefficient, sometimes more
effective, but at the end of theday it comes down to that
interpersonal contact between anofficer who gets it, an officer
who can get to a person bytalking to them and be able then
to do the best they can to putthe situation in perspective for
(22:50):
this person so that they willcooperate, and then you can
hopefully get them the help thatthey need, so that they will
cooperate and then you canhopefully get them the help that
they need.
That's a lot to ask for somebodywho's 21, 22, 23 years old,
with six months of formal policetraining, and they're out there
doing the best they can withwhat they have.
So I think if we can communicateto our society in a more
effective way than we have whatwe're asking of young police
(23:13):
officers today, and it is adifferent job than it was just a
few short years ago on so manyfronts.
But we have great people whoare drawn to a profession that
is, one that who else is asked,other than our military, to put
themselves between a threat andsociety?
I look at our other partners inthe public service, our fire
(23:36):
partners.
They do put themselves betweena threat and certainly the
public, but in a different way,usually not dealing with the
same type of issues as we do,although our paramedics are out
there in the field dealing withpeople undergoing the same
issues and doing the best theycan, and often they have to
reach out and get a backup frompolice officers to be able just
(23:58):
to do their job at a basic level.
So it is a very difficultenvironment across the country
that we're asking policeofficers to interact with, and
the expectations of them havenever been higher.
Steve Morreale (24:10):
Well, you went on for a bit and you talked
about things that are close toyour heart and I.
And what troubles me is andmost of the people who are
listening are in the business oraffiliated with the business,
academics and such but they'relistening from all over the
world, which blows my mind.
But it strikes me that, as yousaid, society, our politicians,
(24:33):
our policymakers don't seem toalways realize that you're the
24-7 group and that DFS orsomebody psychiatric or whatever
it is, are not on on Saturdayat three o'clock in the morning.
So you have to be able to haverelationships with those groups
so that you can hand it off orgive somebody the option of who
(24:55):
to talk to on Monday morning.
But you've got to deal with itright then.
And, by the way, we're talkingto Jim McDonald In previous
years and I know you keep it upis understanding your role as
the chief and your command staffto understand what's going on
in the neighborhoods with thecitizens, what's on their mind,
(25:19):
right, and how do you do thatwhile you're chasing calls?
Jim McDonnell (25:25):
Yeah, you know, it certainly is a challenge for
our folks.
But everyone in the organizationis expected to be plugged in
with the community as best wecan.
Those that are best at it orclosest to it are our officers
in the field, our senior leadofficers, who are kind of the
quarterback on that area 24-7,our field supervisors and our
watch commanders, our captains,in each of our divisions.
(25:48):
We have 21 divisions.
They are very plugged intowhat's going on in the community
.
They're very plugged into whatthe crime problems are quality
of life problems in each of thecommunities within their command
and so that we use the CompStatsystem, we drill down on these
type of issues.
But it's well beyond that.
It's a daily interactionbetween all of us keeping each
(26:10):
other up to speed on what thechallenges of the day are and
what tools can we employ to beable to make things better.
There is a culture within theorganization, I believe, that
continues to feed itself with anenergy to go out there and do
the best you can and make thingsbetter than they were when you
found them.
Steve Morreale (26:28):
Make a difference.
So you all often talk about thehuman element and I also
understand that you had concernswhen you came back about
complaints are handled.
Talk about that, the slownessin which in the past they have
been handled, but to try tospeed that up so it doesn't
become the albatross for theofficer.
Jim McDonnell (26:49):
Thanks for that.
When I came back to the LAPD Iwas aware of a number of
different issues that hadreached critical mass, that the
complaint system certainly isone of them and there were many
others.
We put together 10 workinggroups with representation,
subject matter experts in theorganization and representatives
from the union.
(27:09):
I just got the report this pastweek to look at what the
results of those working groupswere.
We've made a number of changeson low-hanging fruit already to
try and speed things up.
But as we move forward we wantto do it deliberately and to be
able to do it in a thoughtfulway so that we address all of
(27:30):
the issues for the reasonscertain things were put in place
and many things were put inplace many years ago under
different circumstances, adifferent level of deployment.
But my hope is that on theintake of complaints, that we
will always take the complaintbut what we do with it from
there will differ depending onthe type of complaint and what
(27:50):
an initial investigation willshow.
So if something is demonstrablyfalse, hopefully we'll be able
to deal with that differentlyand more rapidly than we would
with something that is a moreserious consequence and where
the initial investigation showsthat there's something there
that needs to be followed up onas we move forward.
(28:11):
My hope is to be able tostreamline the process, maintain
a high level of accountability,track everything that comes in.
We have audits, we have aninspector general, a police
commission that look veryclosely at all of these issues.
So I'm comfortable that, as wemove forward, we will be able to
streamline the process and beable to maintain the level of
(28:33):
accountability that we have, butto do so and free up people to
be able to focus on theirmission For instance, field
supervisors more time in thefield and not have as many
complaints to have toinvestigate.
Some of these complaints takeup to a year to investigate and
during that time the accusedofficer will be kind of in limbo
, unable to transfer orpotentially promote, unable to
(28:56):
get a select assignment, and sothat's not fair to the officers.
And, as much as we can, whilemaintaining accountability, we
want to be able to do better,and I know the people who are on
these working groups took itvery, very seriously, and so I'm
optimistic that the outcomeswill be positive on that front.
If I could just interject beyondyour question, but without
(29:20):
wanting to miss this, the samething is true for our hiring
process.
We have a heck of a time hiringnew people and getting the best
and the brightest out there asquickly as we'd like to, and the
problem has been since I'vebeen on board, I can speak to it
we're up 95% in the number ofpeople who want to be Los
(29:41):
Angeles police officers, butwe're in a situation where we
have another city department,the personnel department, who's
actually responsible for thetesting and hiring.
So while we bring them in, theyare not adequately resourced and
have a different set of systemsfor doing what they do.
And my hope is, as we moveforward, to be able to
(30:03):
streamline the process becauseoften, like so many departments
across the country, when acandidate applies to one
department, they may apply totwo or three others at the same
time, and whichever makes thefirst job offer will get that
candidate, or three others atthe same time, and whichever
makes the first job offer willget that candidate.
So while our pipeline is notquick, we lose some solid
(30:24):
candidates to other agenciesthroughout the region, and I
think we can do better than wehave in the past and be able to
increase the number of peoplewe're able to bring into the
academy and ultimately thenexpand the size of the
organization to where we can doa better job for everyone.
Steve Morreale (30:37):
So you're looking for a quicker turnaround
without having an impact on theseriousness of background.
So you bring the right peoplein.
We're talking to Jim McDonald,these working groups that you
were talking about.
You assemble them and then youfinally get the report.
You give them time to do thework with all the other stuff
that's going on at the same time.
But now the report is out andnow you said we tried to handle
(30:59):
some low hanging fruit, and Ithink you recognize and
certainly I do when you do that,it is saying to the people we
value your input and we're goingto act on some of those things.
How important is that?
Jim McDonnell (31:12):
It's critical.
I think if you're puttingtogether groups and they're
getting input and you're notacting on that input, then the
next time you ask they're lesslikely to engage.
So my hope is that we're ableto move forward, do some
meaningful change, but do it ina thoughtful way where we're
(31:34):
together with input from thoseclosest to the issue, those who
care the most, who deal with itevery day, and yet not
jeopardize the quality in thecase of a candidate, or the
quality of an investigation inthe case of an internal or
community complaint.
There's a lot of differentthings we're looking at in that
way and my hope is that, whileit's taken maybe a little bit
(31:58):
longer than I would have likedbecause of the emergency
situations we've had in 2025,that we move forward now and I'm
hoping we get a break for awhile on those issues and are
able to focus.
But again, when you look at justthe magnitude of the
emergencies we face the unresthere in the past couple of weeks
(32:19):
and prior to that, the rain andmudslides after the fires the
fires were the worst in ourhistory here, just absolutely
devastating.
Many of our people losteverything they had and yet they
wanted to get right back in thegame and get out there and
serve.
And same with the unrest we had, we had 52 police officers
injured and the vast majority ofthem got treated and wanted to
(32:42):
get back out on the line andprotect their partners and
protect the community.
That's something that you don'tsee, I'd say as much in other
professions is that comes fromthe heart.
You know, it's not a decisionof the mind, it's more a
decision of the heart.
You know, put me back in andlet me, let me be helpful.
Let me play, coach yeah they'rean inspiration to me, because
(33:02):
some of them significant,significant banged up but yet
want to get right back in there.
Steve Morreale (33:09):
So there's a number of things going through
my head.
Thank you so much for sharingyour perspective.
I want to take you back to atime when maybe you were a
captain, a commander, right, sothat was many years ago and just
think back for me about how youbegan to run meetings, get
feedback back then and how youhave evolved over time.
(33:30):
And, more importantly, how youare watching other people run
meetings and then coach them.
Maybe that there might be adifferent way to do it.
You're being too tactical,you're being too administrative.
You've got to get feedback.
Tell me how you're suggestingto the people you're developing.
I truly believe this.
Jim, you've got a shelf life,but, who knows, you may be doing
(33:54):
this for 10 years or whatever,but ultimately someone will take
your place.
Right?
We're all replaced at one pointin time, and it seems to me
that a good leader works veryhard to develop other leaders in
the future.
Right, and I'm sure that alongthe way, you have had some minor
hand in creating other policechiefs, right, almost having a
(34:15):
family tree.
How important is that?
And how have you morphed in theway you run your meetings?
Jim McDonnell (34:23):
That is a great question and, looking back on it
, I never gave it a lot ofthought in those terms, but I
would say, probably talk lessand listen more and to be able
to set the table but then letothers run with the issues.
And to me, I learn more fromlistening to others, and most of
the time, others who are goingto speak to the issue are
(34:45):
speaking because they're thesubject matter expert for the
department on that issue, and sowe learn a lot from listening
to folks that we consider areinsight experts.
But they're also people who goto conferences, who are talking
to people across the country andaround the world all the time,
whether it's counterterrorism orcrime control or some of the
internal personnel issues thatwe deal with.
(35:06):
Whatever the issue is, we haveour experts, but they also avail
themselves to expertise fromother places.
So I think the strength that wehave is that we're not insular,
we're not just looking inside,because some would argue that
that was our culture many yearsago.
I think we've gotten past thatand we now are very much open to
(35:27):
new ideas and not wantingeverything necessarily to have
our brand on it for us to listento it or accept it, and I think
that's a healthier place to bethan maybe we as a profession
have been previously.
So it's just too complex aworld today for anybody to
believe that they have theanswers.
You pick any topic and it is sonuanced and I use, for an
(35:48):
example, crime control,something that used to be pretty
much pretty straightforward,and now we've got drones as a
first responder, We've got AI,we've got all of the technology,
dna analysis, cameraseverywhere.
All of these things that we didnot have not too long ago are
now part of the equation whenyou watch.
Steve Morreale (36:09):
I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I'm thinking
the digital breadcrumbs that wehave to.
I mean, that's one of the firstthings everybody does.
Intro-Outro (36:15):
I need video.
Steve Morreale (36:16):
I need phone, I need a computer, I need to see
what was on social media, darkweb, I mean, this is a whole new
world right.
Jim McDonnell (36:22):
Yeah, right.
And then I look at youmentioned that.
I just think that in the nextcouple of years we have the
biggest events.
We have a lot of events all thetime here, but the biggest
events are the FIFA World Cupnext year and then in 28, the
Olympics and Paralympic Games,and just the eyes of the world
are on whatever region hoststhose events, and they'll be on
LA, certainly in 28.
(36:43):
And so to try and prepare forwhat we're going to have to be
up to speed on, so much of thatis networking, is partnerships,
because no one agency alone canpull something of that magnitude
off.
But what are the threats?
And I think back to when I cameon the job in 1981, we were
building up for the 1984Olympics in Los Angeles and we
(37:05):
were looking what's happened inthe past.
What are the threats?
And the threats at that timewere what happened in Munich in
72.
And the kidnapping and thehostage, uh effort that went on
for a period of time, and thatwas what we then prepared for,
among other things, for the 84Olympics.
And we have to prepare every bitas much today for those type of
(37:27):
things as we did then, but witha threat stream is just so much
more diverse and so much harderto be able to identify and to
be able to protect against.
I'll give an example on that isthe cyber threats protect
against.
I'll give an example on that isthe cyber threats, you know,
cyber terrorism, the cyber fraudand the whole spectrum of cyber
threat to an organization, to acity, to a region.
(37:48):
The ability to be able to shutdown, potentially, a power grid
or anything subordinate to that,would have a major impact on
any city's ability to be able todo what they're trying to do,
and so to get the right peoplein place early enough to set up
systems for protection againstthose type of threats, to be
continuously conversant withwhat the emerging threats are
(38:12):
and to be able to put in placeopportunities to be able to
protect our community and eventslike this from threats that are
predictable, potentially orcertainly.
That are something that weshould be up to speed on.
And again, going back to theimportance of relationships, the
Secret Service will be theprimary agency once the Olympics
(38:34):
kick off, because it is anational special security event
and, by law, they're the leadagency.
Our relationship with theSecret Service is tremendous and
we law they're the lead agency.
Our relationship with theSecret Service is tremendous and
we hope to even build on that,so we have an edge going in, I
think, as far as positiverelationships in this region.
We've worked hard on that.
It wasn't always like that, butwe're in a very good place now
(38:57):
from that perspective.
But, moving forward, it's goingto take all of us working very
closely together to be able toachieve the safety that people
deserve.
We're going to attend the gamesand come to Southern California
to enjoy that experience.
Steve Morreale (39:12):
You know, we've had so many conversations
through the years and I rememberone that was talking about I
think it might've been at thefires and you were brand new and
you're watching and you'reobserving, even though people
don't think that you'reobserving.
How is that person handling it?
How they handle the stress, howare those kinds of things?
In many ways, I think you're aterrific judge of character, but
(39:36):
tell me how that plays out inyour world.
In other words, you're looking,you're watching, you're
listening.
Jim McDonnell (39:44):
Yeah, I'm still looking to put a team together
and you never really get yourfinal team, because once you put
what's perceived as the teamtogether, people get
opportunities, they getrecognized and they become
chiefs somewhere else, orthey're coming on retirement or
they're forced into retirementbecause of the deferred
retirement option program whereyou have the drop program, where
once you sign up for it youhave a five-year term.
(40:06):
So we face a lot of thoseissues where we know people are
leaving a date certain and so wehave to continuously evolve the
team that's in place to be ableto mentor the next generation
of whoever's going to sit inthat critical chair and to be
able to find the right people.
And if we have to go outsidethe organization for some of
these things, we certainly willdo that, and you know I'm
(40:29):
looking to do that right now fora CISO to be able to help
protect our infrastructure.
Information security officer.
Steve Morreale (40:35):
And you.
I think we talked about thisbefore.
You are not afraid.
It used to be.
I'm just going to have cops doit.
That's a sworn position thatyou can use in other places, and
so you're not afraid to bringin a professional staff.
And is that working well foryou?
Jim McDonnell (40:50):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I mean, when you look at the waywe've done business
traditionally, we tend to usepolice officers, because that's
what we're used to, and we plugsomebody in and we tell them
okay, you're the new IT guy, getsmart on this stuff and get
back to me in three months, goto classes or whatever.
That is not fair to the peoplethat you're policing.
It's not fair to the people inthe organization and certainly
(41:12):
not fair to that individual.
The expectations of them willbe extremely high and there's
somebody who had maybe noaptitude but no interest in
being in that role and they'reforced into that role and, to
their credit, over and overagain, people thrust into that
responsibility, they step up,they do the best they can, but
that's not what they trained for, not what they went to school
for, not what their interestswere that drove them on their
(41:35):
own to go to conferences and tobecome an expert.
So to reach out and be able tobring people into the
organization who have thatexpertise, who've been around to
different organizations, maybehad city experience, county
experience or at the nationallevel, and to be able to tap
into their expertise and thenteach them and mentor them to
(41:55):
adapt to the policing culture tothe organizational culture, so
that they're successful, butthey don't have to go and study
IT because you came from thatworld, right?
Just apply it to us Exactly,Apply it to the public safety
arena, and we're off and runningtwo steps ahead of the rest.
So I'm optimistic that we havean ability here to bring on a
(42:16):
couple of people in the shortterm.
I'm looking very forward tothose interviews and seeing that
move forward.
So we're doing well.
We're focused on the big eventscoming our way.
As you touched on earlier on, wehave these major emergencies in
the last six months, tremendouschallenges to the organization,
but the rest of the citydoesn't shut down.
(42:37):
We still have crime throughoutthe rest of the city, as every
city does, and you still have tohandle them.
The public has the sameexpectations of service if you
don't have that emergency going.
And I look at our numbers andit's pretty amazing that we're
down almost 30 percent homicideyear to date, in spite of the
fact that we've been dealingwith all of the major issues.
(42:58):
We're dealing with A crimecategory.
The other crime categories aredown as well.
Some are pretty even.
But all in all, I'm very proudof the men and women of our
organization, both sworn andcivilian professional staff, who
continue to step up and gobeyond where anybody thought
possible.
Steve Morreale (43:15):
Jim, I'm looking at you and I'm thinking maybe
when you retire you could belike Tom Selleck, you could be
LAPD blue and on TV, have yourown, or call Donnie Wahlberg for
the new Boston one.
What do you think, bud?
I'm not feeling it.
Okay.
Well, it's interesting.
(43:38):
I digress, my friend, but it'sinteresting that it seems to me
that one of the importantelements of leading and
leadership is that when youbecome distracted, you have to
give 100% to deal with thatissue.
But at some point in time COVID,for example somebody had to say
, okay, we got to get back towhat we were trying to do right
Before we got distracted.
(43:58):
We have to.
Our job is to make this abetter place, to improve the
organization, to improve service.
So you, as the leader, have alot of people around you, but
you're keeping a bunch of platesup at the same time, right, and
they're all in different states.
How are we with that?
And how are we with that?
What's the plate that you'respinning now that you're hoping
you can get back to make thoseimprovements?
(44:19):
Besides some of the things youwere talking about dealing with
the complaint process orimproving the turnaround time
for applicants to become swornpolice officers what's on there?
Jim McDonnell (44:33):
You know, certainly the counterterrorism
front is one of great interest.
But, going back to what youjust said, really the focus has
to be on recruitment andretention, because if we don't
have the personnel to be able todo the job, then no matter what
strategies we're employing,they're not going to be what
they could be, and so that's areal priority for us is the
(44:53):
hiring and then retaining goodpeople as well.
Post-2020, we saw kind of anexodus from the profession.
The people we would have reliedon to mentor newer people, many
of them left at the same time.
As we saw amongst chiefs acrossthe country.
We saw not only the chief butthe next two or three or four in
line who had been mentored forthat position to be replaced.
(45:14):
They all left at the same time,which left a lot of people,
unfairly to them, put in aposition where they became the
chief but they didn't have thesame level of preparation maybe
that they would have otherwise.
And so I think across the board,profession-wide, we need to
help each other moving forwardand be able to be a resource for
(45:34):
each other, so that we've allseen most anything that comes
along, but not everybody has,and everybody has gaps in what
they've experienced.
So the ability to have thatnetwork to reach out and say,
okay, what happened here?
What did you do here?
How did that play out?
What was the fallout from thecommunity side, what was your
relationship with FEMA if it's amajor disaster, or how did you
(45:56):
navigate those waters All ofthose things are invaluable to
be able to reach out for, butnot something that everybody has
in their toolbox because youjust haven't been through that
type of an event.
It hasn't been thrown at youright, right, but someone else
has.
So reach out to them and tapinto them and, across the board,
my experience has been peoplehave been tremendously giving
(46:17):
with their time and theirinsight and knowledge when you
ask them for help on an issuelike this.
Steve Morreale (46:23):
Well, I mean, you belong to a lot of things.
You're an anomaly for anynumber of reasons, but mostly
for having the stick-to-ivenessand the longevity as a chief in
three different departments, andso I applaud you for that.
It's so unusual because, youknow, normally a chief is three
or four years.
And see you later I'm going toretire, that's not Jim McDonald.
But what you just said wasabout networking and I think
(46:47):
that's important.
But there's two questions thatstick with me, and one was
leading with questions and youjust threw out a bunch of
questions.
You're sitting around the table,you're walking in and you're
trying how are we doing withthat?
What about this?
What?
Walking in and you're trying to, how are we doing with that?
What about this?
What about that?
What can we do better?
What can we learn from thatmistake?
How can we avoid something likethat happening again?
But networking becomesimportant.
You're active with major citychiefs.
(47:09):
You were certainly active withICP, still are.
You were active with NationalSheriff's Association,
california chiefs, on and on andRight.
But you're the big cheese, andthis is friend to friend.
But you don't carry yourselfthat way and there's got to be
people that you lean on whenyou're trying to figure out.
(47:31):
How do you handle it?
This is what I'm facing, or areyou on your own?
Jim McDonnell (47:38):
I don't think anybody can be on their own and
expect to be successful.
We all have to be part of abigger team.
But I think it's important tosee the team as bigger than your
department or bigger than yourcity, because there is so much
information and knowledge andexpertise out there across the
country and around the world.
So to be able to tap into thatand to be able then to try and
(47:59):
tailor that to your needs at thetime, I think is critical.
And the ability to be able toask for help, whether it's from
other experts in the field orwhether it's from your elected
official, and to go talk to themand say, hey, I need your help
on this.
I think that is the best way to, if you don't have a
relationship, to open one and ifyou have one, to maybe change
(48:20):
the dynamics of it.
It, to make somebody part ofthe team by asking for their
help, and it could be trulybeneficial to you.
But you've also then opened thedoor so that they're willing to
give you their perspective.
Maybe resources come along withthat, maybe not, but certainly
the more people on the teampulling in the same direction,
the better off you're going tobe in the in the end.
Steve Morreale (48:39):
Yeah, one of the things I say is be a mentor and
find a mentor.
And I think that becomesimportant and whether it's you
or your command staff, I thinkthat becomes important and
whenever possible, look outsidethe organization so you get a
different perspective, and thatdoesn't have to be all police
right.
Jim McDonnell (48:57):
It doesn't have to be all police right Right, no
, absolutely not.
Steve Morreale (49:07):
And I think that's important.
So as we wind down, a couple ofthings.
Family I know how important isyour family and keeping up as
busy as you are with what'sgoing on with the family, how
important is that to JimMcDonald?
Jim McDonnell (49:16):
I think it's critical as far as staying
balanced and as far as kind ofkeeping your perspective of
what's important.
People talk about work-lifebalance and the reality is in
these jobs you don't havework-life balance.
You're either focusedcompletely on the mission,
knowing that that takes awaysome time from the family and
that's a sacrifice for everybodyinvolved.
(49:37):
But I think it's importanttoday to try and talk about
work-life balance and the humanside of the business and the
wellness piece.
But in today's society, withthe demands on police chiefs
across America, it's certainlyvery, very difficult to get
anything that's any semblance ofwork-life balance.
But the family is a criticalpart.
(49:57):
Friends are a critical part.
You can't be a silo.
You can't try and do everythingon your own.
You have to be able to havesomebody that you can call and
say, hey, let me download on you, or hey, what do you think of
this or what do you think ofthat?
I think that's your mentalhealth break, that's your
therapy just having friends andfamily as a support base.
So good to hear.
Steve Morreale (50:18):
So what's an important question about
policing that either I'm notasking you or nobody is asking.
In other words, what would youlike somebody to ask you?
You know, I'd like to take alook at.
Jim McDonnell (50:28):
A lot of people go to school for a criminal
justice degree and what doesthat look like today the
curriculum versus what did itlook like 40 years ago?
Is it much the same, becausepolicing is not like 40 years
ago?
Is it much the same Becausepolicing is not?
And are we preparing people forthis profession to the best way
possible?
And my fear is that we'reprobably not.
(50:50):
I think we need to take a stepback.
We need to kind of recalibrate.
What is this job, what are theexpectations and how do we get
the people who are the right fit?
We don't want somebody who'sone-dimensional and everything
is tactics or everything isacademic.
You have to be kind of the fullpackage.
You have to be able to come inand do the job and be able to
(51:12):
get along with people in theworkplace, be able to go out in
the field, de-escalatesituations and leave people with
the feel that you cared aboutthem and that you were helpful
to them.
That's so important.
But you also have to be atactician.
You have to be somebody who cango out there and keep your
partner and yourself alive, andunder some of the most violent
conditions that a young personcould face, and you have to be
(51:35):
able to do that in a teamatmosphere when the situation
dictates.
And you need somebody.
Well, somebody has to becompassionate and be able to
take a knee and talk to a youngkid who's been abused or, you
know, having a trauma, and atthe next radio call, you know,
rush into a school to try andstop a shooter, an active
(51:55):
shooter situation, or into amall, and often in society
that's not the same person whocan do both.
But in policing we need thatperson who is well-rounded, who
is the full package, who can putthings in perspective and be
able to adapt their tactics andtheir approach to things in the
appropriate manner.
And some of that will occurwhen I think we talk enough
(52:18):
about it, we study it, we focusour efforts on trying to develop
the 21st century police officerin a different way than maybe
we did with the 21st or the 20thcentury police officer.
The demands are markedlydifferent today, but my worry is
that we're not adequatelypreparing people for what the
job now is all about.
Steve Morreale (52:40):
I'd have to speak to that for a moment,
because in the classroom, youknow, because of my experience
35 years doing it I'm not afraidto say hey, look, when you get
hired, here's what's going tohappen.
There's not enough people,there's overtime that you're
going to have to work, you'reforced overtime, you're not
going to be able to go home whenyou are, and that's the reality
, and I want you to know that.
That's the reality that you'regoing to see things that most
people won't see, that you'regoing to have to carry that with
(53:01):
you.
It's all of those things.
But not everybody has thatexperience.
So I appreciate that's anextremely important thing.
But let me say this, jim, in arecent training that I was doing
, talking to a big city policesergeant and a detective and we
got onto wellness and he saidthe following and it just it
blew my mind and he said youknow, steve, this takes so much
(53:26):
out of us and so much out of me.
When I get home to my family, Ihave given so much to my job
that the best I give them iscrumbs.
And that just said it all in alot of ways right, you know
you've had that feeling yourself, I'm sure, because I have, yeah
, sure.
So how do you deal with that interms of making people
(53:49):
understand that I'm not going tomake a judgment on your family,
but your family, for the mostpart, aren't going to turn on
you.
Once you walk out the door, youknow LAPD is behind you, right,
yeah?
Jim McDonnell (54:02):
Yep, no, you're right, and it's keeping that
healthy perspective as best youcan, and I think, talking about
it, we have resources at worknow that we never had in years
past and the stigma of talkingto someone.
I met with our chiefpsychologist yesterday and just
talking about some of thepersonal sit down.
I'm kidding yesterday and justtalking about some of the Was it
a personal sit down, I'mkidding, edric Dorian is our
(54:28):
doctor who oversees that, and anamazing man and very solid.
But we talk about what are theissues that we're seeing in the
profession, in the department,and how do we best put programs
in place and make it so thatpeople don't feel stigmatized by
seeking help.
And I think we've come atremendous way on that, you know
, because I think back 40 yearsago if you went and sought help
you would be ostracized.
And that's what scares peopleright, yeah, and today it's
(54:50):
almost an expectation, in fact.
We order people in to do adebrief with a psychologist
after a major traumatic event,an officer-involved shooting or
something that just shocks theconscience and which we have too
many of and in years past thosewent untreated and unaddressed
(55:10):
and a person got back out in thecar and answering another call,
and another call, and anothercall, and it's just an
accumulation of criticalincidents and severe trauma over
a period of time.
That, using the analogy of thebackpack, every time you put a
new brick in it, everybody has abreaking point and at some
point, no matter how strong youare, that backpack is going to
(55:31):
get too heavy for you and unlessyou're doing something along
the way to start throwing someof those bricks out of there,
you're going to end up in a badplace, and we've seen that, as
you well know, too often for toomany years.
And if there's ways tointervene so that we lessen that
and we help our people out,then we have an obligation to do
that.
Steve Morreale (55:50):
That's great, I'm glad to hear.
Last question when you're notbeing Chief McDonald, what
recharges you and helps you havenew perspective?
Jim McDonnell (56:02):
You know, I'd say I'm blessed that we just
welcomed a new grandbaby in.
Now we have two grandkids.
Thank you.
Thank you and certainly movingforward.
That's going to be anincreasing opportunity to be
able to interact with them andbe able to see the world through
their eyes as well, which willbe highly energizing.
But I like to attend sportsevents.
(56:23):
I play a little golf every nowand then and I want to be a
photographer, so that's kind ofa little bit of a hobby.
Steve Morreale (56:31):
Do you have a camera besides one on your phone
wherever you go?
Jim McDonnell (56:34):
Yes, yeah, I have a good camera and enjoy going
out there and messing aroundwith it.
That's great.
Steve Morreale (56:40):
So, jim, I want to thank you for your time.
I know how busy you are and I'mso honored to call you a friend
but, more importantly, to seethe success that you have and
that you're fighting the fightand trying to, as you said when
you called that you were goingto take the job that you still
had more in you to to stay inpolicing.
(57:01):
So I'm very happy.
I wish you the best of luck,especially with your your
efforts to try to get morepeople to do the critical job
that you have in la, you havethe last word.
Do you have hope for policing inthe future?
Jim McDonnell (57:16):
I'm extremely optimistic when I look at the
young people coming out of theacademy, when I get the
opportunity to be able to go outand talk to people in the field
and hear the innovative waysthey're looking at things that
our generation wouldn't havethought to look at it that way
wouldn't have brought the sametools to bear on it.
They have a differentperspective, maybe one that we
don't immediately understand,but if you take the time and you
(57:36):
listen to the why, you comeaway nothing but impressed the
work ethic, very solid people,dedicated and committed to the
mission.
I walk away from theinteractions I have with people
and I couldn't be more proud ormore impressed with what they
bring to the table and just theattitude of giving, willing to
put it all on the line forsomeone they've never met.
(57:57):
That's a pretty noble cause.
Steve Morreale (58:00):
Well, you're a leader that many people are
willing to follow and I'm veryglad for that.
So thanks very much and thanksfor taking the time, jim.
Thank you, steve, take care,good luck, all the best.
And that's another episode ofthe Cop Talk podcast.
In the can, we have beentalking to Jim McDonald, the
chief of the Los Angeles PoliceDepartment.
I appreciate he's in LosAngeles today and we'll be back
(58:21):
with more episodes.
Keep in mind, if you have anidea of somebody I should be
talking to, let me know.
I'm always getting feedbackfrom you and I appreciate it.
We've been listening, we havebeen blessed to be listened to
in 89 countries, so thanks verymuch.
Have a good day, stay safe,keep your people safe.
Intro-Outro (58:54):
Have a good day, stay safe, keep your people safe
.
Welcome to the CopDoc podcast.
This podcast explores policeleadership issues and innovative
ideas.
The CopDoc shares thoughts andideas as he talks with leaders
in policing communities,academia and other government
agencies.
And now please join Dr SteveMorreale and industry thought
(00:22):
leaders as they share theirinsights and experience on the
Cop Doc Podcast.
Steve Morreale (00:29):
Hey again everybody.
Coming to you from Boston,steve Morreale is the Cop Doc
Podcast and we are beginninganother episode and I have the
distinct pleasure to talk to afriend, a thought leader beyond
belief, jim McDonald, the chiefat the Los Angeles Police
Department.
I've known Jim for we've knowneach other for 40 years and I'm
so glad I've watched him riseand move and now he's back.
(00:52):
So I didn't think you weregoing to make it, jim, with
everything that's going on.
I'm so appreciative, butwelcome to the podcast.
Thank you, steve.
I appreciate you having me on.
No problem, you have some greatperspective, which I think is
so important, and most peopleknow your trajectory.
A Boston guy like myself andyou went out on a lark to Los
(01:14):
Angeles right after school.
A St Anselm graduate up inManchester, new Hampshire Just
tell us that little piece aboutyou showing up at LA knowing no
one.
Jim McDonnell (01:26):
Yeah, I look back on that and I think I must've
been nuts.
I wanted to get on the Bostonpolice department at the time
and they had just laid off 25%of their department due to a tax
cutting measure prop two and ahalf.
As a result, they would have tohire back everybody laid off.
So any anybody with up to 11and a half years on the job
potentially was falling intothat mix.
Steve Morreale (01:48):
So it would be at the back of the line for that
right.
Jim McDonnell (01:51):
Very, very bottom of the list and it would be at
least six or seven years beforethere would be a shot there.
So I looked around the countryto see where there was
opportunity and back when wewrote letters.
I wrote letters to all thesedepartments to get information
and I was looking for anorganization that had a good
reputation and that was hiring.
And so I looked around and LAhad both.
(02:12):
Although I never thought I'dhave a shot at getting on the
LAPD I had grown up with Adam 12and Dragnet and all the other
shows.
It was kind of something thatwas aspirational but probably
not realistic for somebody from3,000 miles away with a Boston
mindset that you don't get hiredunless you have somebody
speaking for you.
And I didn't know a soul.
(02:33):
And so I came out during springbreak, my senior year in college
, took the out-of-town testingprogram, spent a week and came
back and they sent me a lettersaying you did well on the test,
come back out and finish it.
So I graduated, I had twosuitcases, gym bag, $400 to my
name, and I took the plane outand stayed in a very low-end
(02:58):
motel in Hollywood.
You got to know the people, huhyeah, yeah, it was pretty
interesting and I went throughthe rest of the testing and then
got a job offer that I wouldstart the academy in two weeks.
So thankfully the departmentfound me a job just to keep me
going for two weeks and startedthe academy and spent the next
29 years with LAPD and lookingback, you know I'm so happy I
(03:22):
made that decision to go westbecause, although there were
obstacles, family and friendsleft behind, it was something
that I could not have probablyreplicated anywhere else the
experiences, the friendship, thechallenges.
It was a great experience.
Steve Morreale (03:36):
Well, you've done well, my friend, but I have
to tell you I will share astory I'll never forget.
You were a commander at thetime and you called me and I
thought you were nuts and Idon't know if you remember this
call.
But, steve, I put my hat in thering for chief and I said what?
Jim McDonnell (03:52):
Yeah, yeah, I certainly remember the
circumstances.
Steve Morreale (03:56):
You actually made it to the top of the list
and at that point in time ourcolleague Bill Bratton got the
nod and he brought you in as anassistant chief and ultimately
as the first assistant chief,and so you worked with them for
a while, for a long while, andyou did some amazing things.
Let me ask you this question,commander how was it that you
(04:24):
were able to understand andrecognize how your role was
changing as you were moving upwith more responsibility?
Where did you learn that?
Jim McDonnell (04:35):
How did you assimilate that?
Well, lapd was pretty goodabout putting you through
courses.
Once you made you know asergeant school, watch commander
school, uh, and then, uh,executive development courses.
Steve Morreale (04:47):
So part of it was, I think, in a formal way
but I think, more importantly,and certainly probably more, as
you went through and you were,just talking to you had some
executive development courses,so the courses itself.
But there had to be other otherways that you learn attending
conferences, having good bosses,having bad bosses and
(05:08):
understanding what to avoid.
Jim McDonnell (05:10):
No, absolutely, and I think that every day was a
learning experience andcertainly an opportunity to
learn something you didn't knowthe day before.
And, like you mentioned, Ilearned a tremendous amount from
good people, watching them lead, watching them take new roles
and how they adapted to that.
And I learned as much frompeople who took new roles and
didn't do so well and lessonslearned from there.
(05:32):
And the cheapest lessons areones you get by watching someone
else, but probably as valuableas ones you would get yourself
through some setbacks.
So I tried to do that and Itried to be as open as I could
to new ways of thinking, to takean advantage of every
opportunity I could to be ableto travel and to take courses
IACP, PERF and anyone who wasputting on a course and if I had
(05:57):
to pay for it myself, I didthat.
You came to Harvard.
Steve Morreale (06:00):
I remember meeting you then, yeah.
Jim McDonnell (06:02):
I've had the opportunity to go back there
several times now and every timeyou go to these courses, if you
treat it, I think, with theright attitude, you can learn an
awful lot.
If you go there as some do, andpassively sit there and take in
what you know, what comes theirway, I don't think you get as
much out of it.
I have been blessed, I think,with the opportunities that I've
(06:22):
been able to take advantage ofand also just, I think, being
stubborn and refusing to quitand keeping your eye on your
goals and working hard to getthem and, during the setbacks,
doing what you can to be able toget readjusted and then go back
in the game and focus and workhard, and sometimes good things
happen when you do that.
Steve Morreale (06:42):
Well, and it strikes me that you're a
lifelong learner, that you're ahumble guy.
I mean, you realize I'm sensingand I'm talking to you, the
chief of the Los Angeles PoliceDepartment you still, I still
don't know everything.
You're still learning on adaily basis.
You know, how do you not admitthat?
But how do you recognize thatyou still are open to new ideas,
(07:04):
still looking for newopportunities, still trying to
draw things out of the peoplethat they didn't even know they
had to make the organizationbetter.
Jim McDonnell (07:13):
Sometimes we have the ability to see something in
someone else that they don'tsee in themselves, and so if you
can set them up for success byputting them in a position,
maybe, that they didn't want andI've been in that role myself
where I've had jobs that Iabsolutely did not want that job
, and then when I left that job,I look back and think to myself
there's no way that I wouldhave gone there on my own, but
(07:36):
the value that I got fromsitting in that chair was
something that served me wellfor the rest of my career and
continues to serve me today.
So I think that realizing inyourself, trying to be realistic
, knowing that every one of usis subject to a mistake that
could be international news onany given day, and every
(07:57):
decision you make certainlyaffects someone in your
organization or someone in thecommunity.
So to try and be as judiciousas you can, try and be as
thoughtful and try and look 360at everything that's put before
you and see, you know, from amore nuanced approach than maybe
you would ordinarily do, whatimpact is this going to have on
(08:18):
everybody that's involved inthis?
And you can never pleaseeverybody, but as much as you
can, it's good to try and beaware of the impacts that your
decision will have on so manyothers.
Steve Morreale (08:29):
So one of the things that strikes me, and I
think that's so unique inpolicing and you belong to
associations, whether it's Calchiefs or the LA County chiefs
and certainly ICP and thenational sheriff's association
there are a lot of people thatyou have encountered who are
(08:49):
single dimension because they'vealways been in one organization
right, I'm not.
I'm not knocking that.
I don't think that's a badthing.
By the same token, you becamethe chief at long Beach.
You became the sheriff for avery large organization in the
Los Angeles Sheriff's Departmentour office and with that has
(09:12):
different cultures and with thisyou took your experience and
grabbed new experiences fromthose.
How did you learn?
How did you?
When you left I know you canalways take people, your own
people, and I know you balk atthat.
I know you balk at that Tell meyour point of view and your
(09:33):
learning, your metamorphosisfrom one agency to another and
now back full circle to LA.
Jim McDonnell (09:39):
Yeah, yeah, no, you know I have been blessed.
I look at the opportunities.
When one door closed, anotheropen.
You just have to be willing todo what it takes to go through
that door.
And I looked at when I leftLAPD.
My whole adult life had been inthe organization.
I love the organization andLAPD has their own way of doing
(09:59):
things.
So I remember a very humblingexperience when I went to Long
Beach as chief and check out acar and get in the car, turn on
the police radio and listen fora couple of minutes to calls
coming out and I don't know whatthey're talking about.
They use a whole different codesystem and it was something
that for a guy.
Steve Morreale (10:17):
Should I go?
Is this an important call?
Jim McDonnell (10:20):
For someone who had at the time almost three
decades in the business and I'min an organization right next
door to where I left, and torealize that a guy coming out of
the academy knew more aboutthis particular aspect than I
did, it was humbling.
It told me that, hey pal, yougot a lot to learn here.
And I went in there and my hopewas to be able to learn about
(10:40):
the department, to respect thetradition and the culture and
the way it's organized, learnabout the department to respect
the tradition and the cultureand the way it's organized, but
to be able then to also bring ina set of fresh eyes, to be able
to look for opportunity thatmaybe someone who had been there
a long time didn't see andwouldn't be expected to see.
So I did make some changesgoing in there but also tried as
much as I could to berespectful of the organization
(11:02):
and the history and tradition ofthe organization.
And I think you know initiallyit was bumpy at first.
I'm an outsider coming in fromLAPD, which was not something
that was welcomed in the culture.
And I think in, you know, insix months or so we were able
together to overcome that and beable to be on a path where we
(11:23):
were trying to make each otherbetter each day, and I look back
fondly on my experience andtime at Long Beach PD.
Steve Morreale (11:31):
So we're talking to Jim McDonald.
He is at his home in Californiatoday.
He's the chief of the LosAngeles Police Department.
It strikes me too that well,I'll explain.
When you were telling thatstory about getting in the car
and not knowing their 10 code,or whatever they were talking
about, it was the same thing.
I left from DEA, went to HHSand I'm sitting in a meeting and
you know how we love acronyms,right?
(11:52):
And I swear to God, I had asteno pad.
I must have written 40 terms.
And I walked out of my officeand I said to my secretary will
you let me know what the hellall this stuff means?
because I have no idea, I'm sureyou felt the same way, Like
what the hell does this mean?
I assume it happened when youwent to LA County too?
Same sort of?
Jim McDonnell (12:09):
thing?
Absolutely it did.
It's funny because threeorganizations LAPD, long Beach
PD and LA Sheriffs they're allright next to each other, they
all abut each other'sjurisdictions and yet there are
three very different culturesand so for me, going from one to
another to another and thenback again, it's kind of almost
a full circle in a relativelysmall geographic area.
(12:30):
But I feel like I learned somuch.
Getting out of my comfort zonewas probably the best thing that
could have happened to me asfar as development, and often I
think we avoid that.
We want to stay comfortable,particularly as we get a lot of
time on the job.
We feel we've earned theability to be comfortable and
(12:50):
know people know where to go,what to do and how to do it.
But really the growth comesfrom discomfort and from pushing
yourself beyond where you werehappy.
Steve Morreale (12:58):
I'm assuming you have this experience At some
point in time.
What wants to come out of yourmouth is well the way we did it
at LAPD when you were at LongBeach.
And I think you probably had tosay that three or four times
before somebody didn't slap youbut said it doesn't really
matter what you did at LAPD.
Is that a fair assessment?
Jim McDonnell (13:14):
Yeah, I went in, I think, eyes wide open on that,
because I had watched, as youmentioned earlier, so many
others go places from LAPD andtry and do exactly that to try
and turn another organizationinto an LAPD.
And that didn't work.
And if you don't go inrespectful of the culture of the
people that you're going to beworking with, you've got two
(13:35):
strikes against you right there.
And so what I did try to do ismake it the best Long Beach PD
or the best LASD that we couldbe, and not try and replicate
what we had at LAPD.
And likewise, going back toLAPD now, after a 15-year gap, I
see opportunities there.
Things are different than theywere when I left there.
(13:57):
In many ways the culture haschanged in society as well, but
it's still the organization Igrew up with.
I'm very comfortable.
I feel like I went back home asfar as culture, tradition,
procedure, policy, those kind ofthings.
But there are some differencestoo, and the tools, the
technology, the tactics that weuse have evolved over time and I
(14:17):
think we're a betterorganization now than we were
previously.
We just have to be able to keepthe human side in alignment
with the technology side, thetactical side.
Steve Morreale (14:29):
So there are a few things that I'm writing down
, but what I'm hearing is thatyou walk in with an open mindset
.
You don't come in with a fixedmindset.
You have a growth mindset andI'm assuming, as you're talking
to people and you're assessingpeople around the table, no
matter what organization youwalked into, right, you're
inheriting a new group of people, and even people who you worked
(14:50):
with, who have climbed theladder, had some different life
experiences, you know,respecting that they have a
perspective that might be ofvalue.
And how important has it beenfor you and I think you've
always been this way but tolisten, to ask a question, to
probe a little bit and listenand get input from the people,
(15:11):
someone's perspective other thanyours.
Jim McDonnell (15:14):
I think maybe it's selfish on my part, but I
learn a lot more by listeningthan I do by talking, and so I
want to learn as much as I can,and I want to be able to hear
from people I have theopportunity to work with.
What are their thoughts, whereare they coming from and make
judgments on?
Where is the best fit for thatperson, where is their skill set
strongest, and how do we takeadvantage of the talents that
(15:37):
each of our folks bring to thetable that we might not
otherwise know?
It might not be on the resume,it might be something they've
done that they don't talk aboutin their personal life.
You know many of the people,sadly, over the years.
I can't tell you how manyfunerals I've been to, and when
you hear the eulogy about whatpeople did off duty, you wish to
God you knew about that whenthey were still with us, because
(16:00):
they were stellar, stellarpeople, citizens beyond policing
Right In ways that we reallyweren't aware of and had we
known, we would have probablylooked at them maybe in a little
bit of a different light, butmaybe also had the opportunity
to be able to capture some ofthose talents and be able to
channel them into the work we'redoing on duty.
Steve Morreale (16:19):
So listening is important.
The human element is important.
So you walk back into la.
Let's talk about your currentjob as you returned in november
the fires, some of the some ofthe active stuff going on in the
city now, and yet, at that sametime and I'm always talking to
(16:41):
people when we're watchingthings on TV but regardless of
what's going on in this place,this still calls for service
somewhere else and we still haveto meet that.
And something you said theother day really struck me, and
it was that we're the LAPD andno matter who calls for help,
(17:04):
we'll do our damnedest to getthere and help.
Yeah, I think that was quitethe statement, because it
reminded people that that's whatyou're there for to help.
Yeah, when the call comes in.
Intro-Outro (17:14):
We're going to come .
Steve Morreale (17:15):
So tell me how you drive that through the
organization and remind peopleof mission and purpose.
Jim McDonnell (17:22):
We have an organization that has a very
strong culture, a very strongtactical officer safety focused
culture that's been developedover many decades.
I think part of that is becausewe are deployed so leanly and
that we need to be able to bethere for each other to back
each other up in order to beable to go home at night safely,
and so when I look at where weare when I came back, we're
(17:45):
1,400 officers down from wherewe should be.
We should be actually probablya lot better deployed than that,
even for the officer topopulation ratio that this city
has versus many others acrossthe country.
So we're trying to recruit.
We've gotten some support fromthe council to be able to move
forward with recruiting efforts,so I'm hopeful that we will
(18:08):
have an impact there.
I'll do a shameless plug.
If somebody's interested, weare hiring.
It is a great job and we juststarted a recruitment campaign
that, if somebody was interested, it's wwwlapdunrivaledcom.
Lapdunrivaledcom and I thinkit's well done.
(18:28):
It was a third-party marketingfirm that put that.
There's a video on there that Ithink is pretty compelling and
it shows the stuff you wouldexpect on a recruitment video
the action, the running fromcall to call, the different
types of specialized units.
We have the various thingspatrol do, but it also shows the
human side, the compassion, theneed for character, the ability
(18:51):
to be able, at the end of theday, to look back and think that
you were able to help somebodyon the worst day of their life
manage it just a little bitbetter.
And so I think it's a minute 45seconds but, I thought,
exceptionally well done.
So I would invite all yourlisteners just to take a look
and see what they think on that.
But we are hiring.
We've got the same problemsthat police organizations across
(19:12):
the US and Canada have, that,for a number of reasons, people
don't want to be police officerstoday the way they did when we
came on, and so that's thechallenge we're going to have to
overcome, and I think we dothat by being more transparent,
by showing people what the jobis and what it isn't, and we've
too often allowed Hollywood totell people what police do and
(19:32):
what they don't do and to painta picture of us in a way that
sells movies and series but maynot tell the true story on what
our role in society is.
And I think, if we can go backto showing the nobility of the
profession to show that we takepeople at generally 21 years old
, with whatever life experiencethey have, and test them.
(19:54):
And you know the latest thenumbers before COVID were for
every hundred people who appliedto be a Los Angeles police
officer, four made it to theacademy, three made it through
the academy.
So extremely selective.
But then we take that personwith whatever life experience
they bring, put them through asix-month academy and try and
prepare them for what they'regoing to see out there on the
street.
They graduate, they get in thefield and they're paired up with
(20:18):
a training officer for a periodof time and then, once that's
over, they're going to be withwhoever they are assigned to
work with for the rest of theircareer.
They're going to sit in thatblack and white and get radio
calls directed their way thathandle a broad spectrum of
societal ills.
(20:38):
The dysfunction of our societyis played out on the radio in a
police car, call after callafter call, and many of these
calls are extremely complex.
They're not something that youcan go and address in two
minutes and expect that you'vegotten some resolution.
Many more calls today deal withpeople who are undergoing a
mental health crisis.
(20:59):
And you get there and if yousent out, instead of a police
officer, if you sent a trainedpsychiatrist or psychologist,
their response would be to seethe person four or five times to
be able to diagnose their issue, medicate them, change the
medication to try and make itappropriate for them and then do
follow-up visits once thediagnosis is made.
Then monitor them, change themedication to try and make it
appropriate for them and then dofollow-up visits Once the
diagnosis is made, then monitorthem going forward and we get a
(21:22):
cop out there and he better getthere fast.
Once you get there fast, nobodyever calls you when the person
who has these issues, if they'renot in a crisis, if they're not
acting out on the illness in apotentially violent way, so the
officer gets there and they haveto de-escalate it as quickly as
they can, if they can, and tryand be able to get that person
(21:43):
referred to appropriatetreatment.
Often that person wants nothingto do with Kona treatment or
dealing with the officer whoresponded and, as you can
imagine, the lights and thesiren and the uniform and the
badge and the command presenceare all triggering events for
someone who's undergoing acrisis, and so we need, as a
society, to do better, to haveother tools than police officers
(22:05):
rolling out to calls like thisand expecting them then to be
right 100% of the time andamazingly, we're right 98% of
the time or better, and it'sjust miraculous that we're able
to do what we do with the toolsthat we have to deal with some
very highly nuanced and complexissues.
And yet our folks do it day inand day out.
(22:27):
And while we talk abouttechnology as a force multiplier
, it's great to make us moreefficient, sometimes more
effective, but at the end of theday it comes down to that
interpersonal contact between anofficer who gets it, an officer
who can get to a person bytalking to them and be able then
to do the best they can to putthe situation in perspective for
(22:50):
this person so that they willcooperate, and then you can
hopefully get them the help thatthey need, so that they will
cooperate and then you canhopefully get them the help that
they need.
That's a lot to ask for somebodywho's 21, 22, 23 years old,
with six months of formal policetraining, and they're out there
doing the best they can withwhat they have.
So I think if we can communicateto our society in a more
effective way than we have whatwe're asking of young police
(23:13):
officers today, and it is adifferent job than it was just a
few short years ago on so manyfronts.
But we have great people whoare drawn to a profession that
is, one that who else is asked,other than our military, to put
themselves between a threat andsociety?
I look at our other partners inthe public service, our fire
(23:36):
partners.
They do put themselves betweena threat and certainly the
public, but in a different way,usually not dealing with the
same type of issues as we do,although our paramedics are out
there in the field dealing withpeople undergoing the same
issues and doing the best theycan, and often they have to
reach out and get a backup frompolice officers to be able just
(23:58):
to do their job at a basic level.
So it is a very difficultenvironment across the country
that we're asking policeofficers to interact with, and
the expectations of them havenever been higher.
Steve Morreale (24:10):
Well, you went on for a bit and you talked
about things that are close toyour heart and I.
And what troubles me is andmost of the people who are
listening are in the business oraffiliated with the business,
academics and such but they'relistening from all over the
world, which blows my mind.
But it strikes me that, as yousaid, society, our politicians,
(24:33):
our policymakers don't seem toalways realize that you're the
24-7 group and that DFS orsomebody psychiatric or whatever
it is, are not on on Saturdayat three o'clock in the morning.
So you have to be able to haverelationships with those groups
so that you can hand it off orgive somebody the option of who
(24:55):
to talk to on Monday morning.
But you've got to deal with itright then.
And, by the way, we're talkingto Jim McDonald In previous
years and I know you keep it upis understanding your role as
the chief and your command staffto understand what's going on
in the neighborhoods with thecitizens, what's on their mind,
(25:19):
right, and how do you do thatwhile you're chasing calls?
Jim McDonnell (25:25):
Yeah, you know, it certainly is a challenge for
our folks.
But everyone in the organizationis expected to be plugged in
with the community as best wecan.
Those that are best at it orclosest to it are our officers
in the field, our senior leadofficers, who are kind of the
quarterback on that area 24-7,our field supervisors and our
watch commanders, our captains,in each of our divisions.
(25:48):
We have 21 divisions.
They are very plugged intowhat's going on in the community
.
They're very plugged into whatthe crime problems are quality
of life problems in each of thecommunities within their command
and so that we use the CompStatsystem, we drill down on these
type of issues.
But it's well beyond that.
It's a daily interactionbetween all of us keeping each
(26:10):
other up to speed on what thechallenges of the day are and
what tools can we employ to beable to make things better.
There is a culture within theorganization, I believe, that
continues to feed itself with anenergy to go out there and do
the best you can and make thingsbetter than they were when you
found them.
Steve Morreale (26:28):
Make a difference.
So you all often talk about thehuman element and I also
understand that you had concernswhen you came back about
complaints are handled.
Talk about that, the slownessin which in the past they have
been handled, but to try tospeed that up so it doesn't
become the albatross for theofficer.
Jim McDonnell (26:49):
Thanks for that.
When I came back to the LAPD Iwas aware of a number of
different issues that hadreached critical mass, that the
complaint system certainly isone of them and there were many
others.
We put together 10 workinggroups with representation,
subject matter experts in theorganization and representatives
from the union.
(27:09):
I just got the report this pastweek to look at what the
results of those working groupswere.
We've made a number of changeson low-hanging fruit already to
try and speed things up.
But as we move forward we wantto do it deliberately and to be
able to do it in a thoughtfulway so that we address all of
(27:30):
the issues for the reasonscertain things were put in place
and many things were put inplace many years ago under
different circumstances, adifferent level of deployment.
But my hope is that on theintake of complaints, that we
will always take the complaintbut what we do with it from
there will differ depending onthe type of complaint and what
(27:50):
an initial investigation willshow.
So if something is demonstrablyfalse, hopefully we'll be able
to deal with that differentlyand more rapidly than we would
with something that is a moreserious consequence and where
the initial investigation showsthat there's something there
that needs to be followed up onas we move forward.
(28:11):
My hope is to be able tostreamline the process, maintain
a high level of accountability,track everything that comes in.
We have audits, we have aninspector general, a police
commission that look veryclosely at all of these issues.
So I'm comfortable that, as wemove forward, we will be able to
streamline the process and beable to maintain the level of
(28:33):
accountability that we have, butto do so and free up people to
be able to focus on theirmission For instance, field
supervisors more time in thefield and not have as many
complaints to have toinvestigate.
Some of these complaints takeup to a year to investigate and
during that time the accusedofficer will be kind of in limbo
, unable to transfer orpotentially promote, unable to
(28:56):
get a select assignment, and sothat's not fair to the officers.
And, as much as we can, whilemaintaining accountability, we
want to be able to do better,and I know the people who are on
these working groups took itvery, very seriously, and so I'm
optimistic that the outcomeswill be positive on that front.
If I could just interject beyondyour question, but without
(29:20):
wanting to miss this, the samething is true for our hiring
process.
We have a heck of a time hiringnew people and getting the best
and the brightest out there asquickly as we'd like to, and the
problem has been since I'vebeen on board, I can speak to it
we're up 95% in the number ofpeople who want to be Los
(29:41):
Angeles police officers, butwe're in a situation where we
have another city department,the personnel department, who's
actually responsible for thetesting and hiring.
So while we bring them in, theyare not adequately resourced and
have a different set of systemsfor doing what they do.
And my hope is, as we moveforward, to be able to
(30:03):
streamline the process becauseoften, like so many departments
across the country, when acandidate applies to one
department, they may apply totwo or three others at the same
time, and whichever makes thefirst job offer will get that
candidate, or three others atthe same time, and whichever
makes the first job offer willget that candidate.
So while our pipeline is notquick, we lose some solid
(30:24):
candidates to other agenciesthroughout the region, and I
think we can do better than wehave in the past and be able to
increase the number of peoplewe're able to bring into the
academy and ultimately thenexpand the size of the
organization to where we can doa better job for everyone.
Steve Morreale (30:37):
So you're looking for a quicker turnaround
without having an impact on theseriousness of background.
So you bring the right peoplein.
We're talking to Jim McDonald,these working groups that you
were talking about.
You assemble them and then youfinally get the report.
You give them time to do thework with all the other stuff
that's going on at the same time.
But now the report is out andnow you said we tried to handle
(30:59):
some low hanging fruit, and Ithink you recognize and
certainly I do when you do that,it is saying to the people we
value your input and we're goingto act on some of those things.
How important is that?
Jim McDonnell (31:12):
It's critical.
I think if you're puttingtogether groups and they're
getting input and you're notacting on that input, then the
next time you ask they're lesslikely to engage.
So my hope is that we're ableto move forward, do some
meaningful change, but do it ina thoughtful way where we're
(31:34):
together with input from thoseclosest to the issue, those who
care the most, who deal with itevery day, and yet not
jeopardize the quality in thecase of a candidate, or the
quality of an investigation inthe case of an internal or
community complaint.
There's a lot of differentthings we're looking at in that
way and my hope is that, whileit's taken maybe a little bit
(31:58):
longer than I would have likedbecause of the emergency
situations we've had in 2025,that we move forward now and I'm
hoping we get a break for awhile on those issues and are
able to focus.
But again, when you look at justthe magnitude of the
emergencies we face the unresthere in the past couple of weeks
(32:19):
and prior to that, the rain andmudslides after the fires the
fires were the worst in ourhistory here, just absolutely
devastating.
Many of our people losteverything they had and yet they
wanted to get right back in thegame and get out there and
serve.
And same with the unrest we had, we had 52 police officers
injured and the vast majority ofthem got treated and wanted to
(32:42):
get back out on the line andprotect their partners and
protect the community.
That's something that you don'tsee, I'd say as much in other
professions is that comes fromthe heart.
You know, it's not a decisionof the mind, it's more a
decision of the heart.
You know, put me back in andlet me, let me be helpful.
Let me play, coach yeah they'rean inspiration to me, because
(33:02):
some of them significant,significant banged up but yet
want to get right back in there.
Steve Morreale (33:09):
So there's a number of things going through
my head.
Thank you so much for sharingyour perspective.
I want to take you back to atime when maybe you were a
captain, a commander, right, sothat was many years ago and just
think back for me about how youbegan to run meetings, get
feedback back then and how youhave evolved over time.
(33:30):
And, more importantly, how youare watching other people run
meetings and then coach them.
Maybe that there might be adifferent way to do it.
You're being too tactical,you're being too administrative.
You've got to get feedback.
Tell me how you're suggestingto the people you're developing.
I truly believe this.
Jim, you've got a shelf life,but, who knows, you may be doing
(33:54):
this for 10 years or whatever,but ultimately someone will take
your place.
Right?
We're all replaced at one pointin time, and it seems to me
that a good leader works veryhard to develop other leaders in
the future.
Right, and I'm sure that alongthe way, you have had some minor
hand in creating other policechiefs, right, almost having a
(34:15):
family tree.
How important is that?
And how have you morphed in theway you run your meetings?
Jim McDonnell (34:23):
That is a great question and, looking back on it
, I never gave it a lot ofthought in those terms, but I
would say, probably talk lessand listen more and to be able
to set the table but then letothers run with the issues.
And to me, I learn more fromlistening to others, and most of
the time, others who are goingto speak to the issue are
(34:45):
speaking because they're thesubject matter expert for the
department on that issue, and sowe learn a lot from listening
to folks that we consider areinsight experts.
But they're also people who goto conferences, who are talking
to people across the country andaround the world all the time,
whether it's counterterrorism orcrime control or some of the
internal personnel issues thatwe deal with.
(35:06):
Whatever the issue is, we haveour experts, but they also avail
themselves to expertise fromother places.
So I think the strength that wehave is that we're not insular,
we're not just looking inside,because some would argue that
that was our culture many yearsago.
I think we've gotten past thatand we now are very much open to
(35:27):
new ideas and not wantingeverything necessarily to have
our brand on it for us to listento it or accept it, and I think
that's a healthier place to bethan maybe we as a profession
have been previously.
So it's just too complex aworld today for anybody to
believe that they have theanswers.
You pick any topic and it is sonuanced and I use, for an
(35:48):
example, crime control,something that used to be pretty
much pretty straightforward,and now we've got drones as a
first responder, We've got AI,we've got all of the technology,
dna analysis, cameraseverywhere.
All of these things that we didnot have not too long ago are
now part of the equation whenyou watch.
Steve Morreale (36:09):
I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I'm thinking
the digital breadcrumbs that wehave to.
I mean, that's one of the firstthings everybody does.
Intro-Outro (36:15):
I need video.
Steve Morreale (36:16):
I need phone, I need a computer, I need to see
what was on social media, darkweb, I mean, this is a whole new
world right.
Jim McDonnell (36:22):
Yeah, right.
And then I look at youmentioned that.
I just think that in the nextcouple of years we have the
biggest events.
We have a lot of events all thetime here, but the biggest
events are the FIFA World Cupnext year and then in 28, the
Olympics and Paralympic Games,and just the eyes of the world
are on whatever region hoststhose events, and they'll be on
LA, certainly in 28.
(36:43):
And so to try and prepare forwhat we're going to have to be
up to speed on, so much of thatis networking, is partnerships,
because no one agency alone canpull something of that magnitude
off.
But what are the threats?
And I think back to when I cameon the job in 1981, we were
building up for the 1984Olympics in Los Angeles and we
(37:05):
were looking what's happened inthe past.
What are the threats?
And the threats at that timewere what happened in Munich in
72.
And the kidnapping and thehostage, uh effort that went on
for a period of time, and thatwas what we then prepared for,
among other things, for the 84Olympics.
And we have to prepare every bitas much today for those type of
(37:27):
things as we did then, but witha threat stream is just so much
more diverse and so much harderto be able to identify and to
be able to protect against.
I'll give an example on that isthe cyber threats protect
against.
I'll give an example on that isthe cyber threats, you know,
cyber terrorism, the cyber fraudand the whole spectrum of cyber
threat to an organization, to acity, to a region.
(37:48):
The ability to be able to shutdown, potentially, a power grid
or anything subordinate to that,would have a major impact on
any city's ability to be able todo what they're trying to do,
and so to get the right peoplein place early enough to set up
systems for protection againstthose type of threats, to be
continuously conversant withwhat the emerging threats are
(38:12):
and to be able to put in placeopportunities to be able to
protect our community and eventslike this from threats that are
predictable, potentially orcertainly.
That are something that weshould be up to speed on.
And again, going back to theimportance of relationships, the
Secret Service will be theprimary agency once the Olympics
(38:34):
kick off, because it is anational special security event
and, by law, they're the leadagency.
Our relationship with theSecret Service is tremendous and
we law they're the lead agency.
Our relationship with theSecret Service is tremendous and
we hope to even build on that,so we have an edge going in, I
think, as far as positiverelationships in this region.
We've worked hard on that.
It wasn't always like that, butwe're in a very good place now
(38:57):
from that perspective.
But, moving forward, it's goingto take all of us working very
closely together to be able toachieve the safety that people
deserve.
We're going to attend the gamesand come to Southern California
to enjoy that experience.
Steve Morreale (39:12):
You know, we've had so many conversations
through the years and I rememberone that was talking about I
think it might've been at thefires and you were brand new and
you're watching and you'reobserving, even though people
don't think that you'reobserving.
How is that person handling it?
How they handle the stress, howare those kinds of things?
In many ways, I think you're aterrific judge of character, but
(39:36):
tell me how that plays out inyour world.
In other words, you're looking,you're watching, you're
listening.
Jim McDonnell (39:44):
Yeah, I'm still looking to put a team together
and you never really get yourfinal team, because once you put
what's perceived as the teamtogether, people get
opportunities, they getrecognized and they become
chiefs somewhere else, orthey're coming on retirement or
they're forced into retirementbecause of the deferred
retirement option program whereyou have the drop program, where
once you sign up for it youhave a five-year term.
(40:06):
So we face a lot of thoseissues where we know people are
leaving a date certain and so wehave to continuously evolve the
team that's in place to be ableto mentor the next generation
of whoever's going to sit inthat critical chair and to be
able to find the right people.
And if we have to go outsidethe organization for some of
these things, we certainly willdo that, and you know I'm
(40:29):
looking to do that right now fora CISO to be able to help
protect our infrastructure.
Information security officer.
Steve Morreale (40:35):
And you.
I think we talked about thisbefore.
You are not afraid.
It used to be.
I'm just going to have cops doit.
That's a sworn position thatyou can use in other places, and
so you're not afraid to bringin a professional staff.
And is that working well foryou?
Jim McDonnell (40:50):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I mean, when you look at the waywe've done business
traditionally, we tend to usepolice officers, because that's
what we're used to, and we plugsomebody in and we tell them
okay, you're the new IT guy, getsmart on this stuff and get
back to me in three months, goto classes or whatever.
That is not fair to the peoplethat you're policing.
It's not fair to the people inthe organization and certainly
(41:12):
not fair to that individual.
The expectations of them willbe extremely high and there's
somebody who had maybe noaptitude but no interest in
being in that role and they'reforced into that role and, to
their credit, over and overagain, people thrust into that
responsibility, they step up,they do the best they can, but
that's not what they trained for, not what they went to school
for, not what their interestswere that drove them on their
(41:35):
own to go to conferences and tobecome an expert.
So to reach out and be able tobring people into the
organization who have thatexpertise, who've been around to
different organizations, maybehad city experience, county
experience or at the nationallevel, and to be able to tap
into their expertise and thenteach them and mentor them to
(41:55):
adapt to the policing culture tothe organizational culture, so
that they're successful, butthey don't have to go and study
IT because you came from thatworld, right?
Just apply it to us Exactly,Apply it to the public safety
arena, and we're off and runningtwo steps ahead of the rest.
So I'm optimistic that we havean ability here to bring on a
(42:16):
couple of people in the shortterm.
I'm looking very forward tothose interviews and seeing that
move forward.
So we're doing well.
We're focused on the big eventscoming our way.
As you touched on earlier on, wehave these major emergencies in
the last six months, tremendouschallenges to the organization,
but the rest of the citydoesn't shut down.
(42:37):
We still have crime throughoutthe rest of the city, as every
city does, and you still have tohandle them.
The public has the sameexpectations of service if you
don't have that emergency going.
And I look at our numbers andit's pretty amazing that we're
down almost 30 percent homicideyear to date, in spite of the
fact that we've been dealingwith all of the major issues.
(42:58):
We're dealing with A crimecategory.
The other crime categories aredown as well.
Some are pretty even.
But all in all, I'm very proudof the men and women of our
organization, both sworn andcivilian professional staff, who
continue to step up and gobeyond where anybody thought
possible.
Steve Morreale (43:15):
Jim, I'm looking at you and I'm thinking maybe
when you retire you could belike Tom Selleck, you could be
LAPD blue and on TV, have yourown, or call Donnie Wahlberg for
the new Boston one.
What do you think, bud?
I'm not feeling it.
Okay.
Well, it's interesting.
(43:38):
I digress, my friend, but it'sinteresting that it seems to me
that one of the importantelements of leading and
leadership is that when youbecome distracted, you have to
give 100% to deal with thatissue.
But at some point in time COVID,for example somebody had to say
, okay, we got to get back towhat we were trying to do right
Before we got distracted.
(43:58):
We have to.
Our job is to make this abetter place, to improve the
organization, to improve service.
So you, as the leader, have alot of people around you, but
you're keeping a bunch of platesup at the same time, right, and
they're all in different states.
How are we with that?
And how are we with that?
What's the plate that you'respinning now that you're hoping
you can get back to make thoseimprovements?
(44:19):
Besides some of the things youwere talking about dealing with
the complaint process orimproving the turnaround time
for applicants to become swornpolice officers what's on there?
Jim McDonnell (44:33):
You know, certainly the counterterrorism
front is one of great interest.
But, going back to what youjust said, really the focus has
to be on recruitment andretention, because if we don't
have the personnel to be able todo the job, then no matter what
strategies we're employing,they're not going to be what
they could be, and so that's areal priority for us is the
(44:53):
hiring and then retaining goodpeople as well.
Post-2020, we saw kind of anexodus from the profession.
The people we would have reliedon to mentor newer people, many
of them left at the same time.
As we saw amongst chiefs acrossthe country.
We saw not only the chief butthe next two or three or four in
line who had been mentored forthat position to be replaced.
(45:14):
They all left at the same time,which left a lot of people,
unfairly to them, put in aposition where they became the
chief but they didn't have thesame level of preparation maybe
that they would have otherwise.
And so I think across the board,profession-wide, we need to
help each other moving forwardand be able to be a resource for
(45:34):
each other, so that we've allseen most anything that comes
along, but not everybody has,and everybody has gaps in what
they've experienced.
So the ability to have thatnetwork to reach out and say,
okay, what happened here?
What did you do here?
How did that play out?
What was the fallout from thecommunity side, what was your
relationship with FEMA if it's amajor disaster, or how did you
(45:56):
navigate those waters All ofthose things are invaluable to
be able to reach out for, butnot something that everybody has
in their toolbox because youjust haven't been through that
type of an event.
It hasn't been thrown at youright, right, but someone else
has.
So reach out to them and tapinto them and, across the board,
my experience has been peoplehave been tremendously giving
(46:17):
with their time and theirinsight and knowledge when you
ask them for help on an issuelike this.
Steve Morreale (46:23):
Well, I mean, you belong to a lot of things.
You're an anomaly for anynumber of reasons, but mostly
for having the stick-to-ivenessand the longevity as a chief in
three different departments, andso I applaud you for that.
It's so unusual because, youknow, normally a chief is three
or four years.
And see you later I'm going toretire, that's not Jim McDonald.
But what you just said wasabout networking and I think
(46:47):
that's important.
But there's two questions thatstick with me, and one was
leading with questions and youjust threw out a bunch of
questions.
You're sitting around the table,you're walking in and you're
trying how are we doing withthat?
What about this?
What?
Walking in and you're trying to, how are we doing with that?
What about this?
What about that?
What can we do better?
What can we learn from thatmistake?
How can we avoid something likethat happening again?
But networking becomesimportant.
You're active with major citychiefs.
(47:09):
You were certainly active withICP, still are.
You were active with NationalSheriff's Association,
california chiefs, on and on andRight.
But you're the big cheese, andthis is friend to friend.
But you don't carry yourselfthat way and there's got to be
people that you lean on whenyou're trying to figure out.
(47:31):
How do you handle it?
This is what I'm facing, or areyou on your own?
Jim McDonnell (47:38):
I don't think anybody can be on their own and
expect to be successful.
We all have to be part of abigger team.
But I think it's important tosee the team as bigger than your
department or bigger than yourcity, because there is so much
information and knowledge andexpertise out there across the
country and around the world.
So to be able to tap into thatand to be able then to try and
(47:59):
tailor that to your needs at thetime, I think is critical.
And the ability to be able toask for help, whether it's from
other experts in the field orwhether it's from your elected
official, and to go talk to themand say, hey, I need your help
on this.
I think that is the best way to, if you don't have a
relationship, to open one and ifyou have one, to maybe change
(48:20):
the dynamics of it.
It, to make somebody part ofthe team by asking for their
help, and it could be trulybeneficial to you.
But you've also then opened thedoor so that they're willing to
give you their perspective.
Maybe resources come along withthat, maybe not, but certainly
the more people on the teampulling in the same direction,
the better off you're going tobe in the in the end.
Steve Morreale (48:39):
Yeah, one of the things I say is be a mentor and
find a mentor.
And I think that becomesimportant and whether it's you
or your command staff, I thinkthat becomes important and
whenever possible, look outsidethe organization so you get a
different perspective, and thatdoesn't have to be all police
right.
Jim McDonnell (48:57):
It doesn't have to be all police right Right, no
, absolutely not.
Steve Morreale (49:07):
And I think that's important.
So as we wind down, a couple ofthings.
Family I know how important isyour family and keeping up as
busy as you are with what'sgoing on with the family, how
important is that to JimMcDonald?
Jim McDonnell (49:16):
I think it's critical as far as staying
balanced and as far as kind ofkeeping your perspective of
what's important.
People talk about work-lifebalance and the reality is in
these jobs you don't havework-life balance.
You're either focusedcompletely on the mission,
knowing that that takes awaysome time from the family and
that's a sacrifice for everybodyinvolved.
(49:37):
But I think it's importanttoday to try and talk about
work-life balance and the humanside of the business and the
wellness piece.
But in today's society, withthe demands on police chiefs
across America, it's certainlyvery, very difficult to get
anything that's any semblance ofwork-life balance.
But the family is a criticalpart.
(49:57):
Friends are a critical part.
You can't be a silo.
You can't try and do everythingon your own.
You have to be able to havesomebody that you can call and
say, hey, let me download on you, or hey, what do you think of
this or what do you think ofthat?
I think that's your mentalhealth break, that's your
therapy just having friends andfamily as a support base.
So good to hear.
Steve Morreale (50:18):
So what's an important question about
policing that either I'm notasking you or nobody is asking.
In other words, what would youlike somebody to ask you?
You know, I'd like to take alook at.
Jim McDonnell (50:28):
A lot of people go to school for a criminal
justice degree and what doesthat look like today the
curriculum versus what did itlook like 40 years ago?
Is it much the same, becausepolicing is not like 40 years
ago?
Is it much the same Becausepolicing is not?
And are we preparing people forthis profession to the best way
possible?
And my fear is that we'reprobably not.
(50:50):
I think we need to take a stepback.
We need to kind of recalibrate.
What is this job, what are theexpectations and how do we get
the people who are the right fit?
We don't want somebody who'sone-dimensional and everything
is tactics or everything isacademic.
You have to be kind of the fullpackage.
You have to be able to come inand do the job and be able to
(51:12):
get along with people in theworkplace, be able to go out in
the field, de-escalatesituations and leave people with
the feel that you cared aboutthem and that you were helpful
to them.
That's so important.
But you also have to be atactician.
You have to be somebody who cango out there and keep your
partner and yourself alive, andunder some of the most violent
conditions that a young personcould face, and you have to be
(51:35):
able to do that in a teamatmosphere when the situation
dictates.
And you need somebody.
Well, somebody has to becompassionate and be able to
take a knee and talk to a youngkid who's been abused or, you
know, having a trauma, and atthe next radio call, you know,
rush into a school to try andstop a shooter, an active
(51:55):
shooter situation, or into amall, and often in society
that's not the same person whocan do both.
But in policing we need thatperson who is well-rounded, who
is the full package, who can putthings in perspective and be
able to adapt their tactics andtheir approach to things in the
appropriate manner.
And some of that will occurwhen I think we talk enough
(52:18):
about it, we study it, we focusour efforts on trying to develop
the 21st century police officerin a different way than maybe
we did with the 21st or the 20thcentury police officer.
The demands are markedlydifferent today, but my worry is
that we're not adequatelypreparing people for what the
job now is all about.
Steve Morreale (52:40):
I'd have to speak to that for a moment,
because in the classroom, youknow, because of my experience
35 years doing it I'm not afraidto say hey, look, when you get
hired, here's what's going tohappen.
There's not enough people,there's overtime that you're
going to have to work, you'reforced overtime, you're not
going to be able to go home whenyou are, and that's the reality
, and I want you to know that.
That's the reality that you'regoing to see things that most
people won't see, that you'regoing to have to carry that with
(53:01):
you.
It's all of those things.
But not everybody has thatexperience.
So I appreciate that's anextremely important thing.
But let me say this, jim, in arecent training that I was doing
, talking to a big city policesergeant and a detective and we
got onto wellness and he saidthe following and it just it
blew my mind and he said youknow, steve, this takes so much
(53:26):
out of us and so much out of me.
When I get home to my family, Ihave given so much to my job
that the best I give them iscrumbs.
And that just said it all in alot of ways right, you know
you've had that feeling yourself, I'm sure, because I have, yeah
, sure.
So how do you deal with that interms of making people
(53:49):
understand that I'm not going tomake a judgment on your family,
but your family, for the mostpart, aren't going to turn on
you.
Once you walk out the door, youknow LAPD is behind you, right,
yeah?
Jim McDonnell (54:02):
Yep, no, you're right, and it's keeping that
healthy perspective as best youcan, and I think, talking about
it, we have resources at worknow that we never had in years
past and the stigma of talkingto someone.
I met with our chiefpsychologist yesterday and just
talking about some of thepersonal sit down.
I'm kidding yesterday and justtalking about some of the Was it
a personal sit down, I'mkidding, edric Dorian is our
(54:28):
doctor who oversees that, and anamazing man and very solid.
But we talk about what are theissues that we're seeing in the
profession, in the department,and how do we best put programs
in place and make it so thatpeople don't feel stigmatized by
seeking help.
And I think we've come atremendous way on that, you know
, because I think back 40 yearsago if you went and sought help
you would be ostracized.
And that's what scares peopleright, yeah, and today it's
(54:50):
almost an expectation, in fact.
We order people in to do adebrief with a psychologist
after a major traumatic event,an officer-involved shooting or
something that just shocks theconscience and which we have too
many of and in years past thosewent untreated and unaddressed
(55:10):
and a person got back out in thecar and answering another call,
and another call, and anothercall, and it's just an
accumulation of criticalincidents and severe trauma over
a period of time.
That, using the analogy of thebackpack, every time you put a
new brick in it, everybody has abreaking point and at some
point, no matter how strong youare, that backpack is going to
(55:31):
get too heavy for you and unlessyou're doing something along
the way to start throwing someof those bricks out of there,
you're going to end up in a badplace, and we've seen that, as
you well know, too often for toomany years.
And if there's ways tointervene so that we lessen that
and we help our people out,then we have an obligation to do
that.
Steve Morreale (55:50):
That's great, I'm glad to hear.
Last question when you're notbeing Chief McDonald, what
recharges you and helps you havenew perspective?
Jim McDonnell (56:02):
You know, I'd say I'm blessed that we just
welcomed a new grandbaby in.
Now we have two grandkids.
Thank you.
Thank you and certainly movingforward.
That's going to be anincreasing opportunity to be
able to interact with them andbe able to see the world through
their eyes as well, which willbe highly energizing.
But I like to attend sportsevents.
(56:23):
I play a little golf every nowand then and I want to be a
photographer, so that's kind ofa little bit of a hobby.
Steve Morreale (56:31):
Do you have a camera besides one on your phone
wherever you go?
Jim McDonnell (56:34):
Yes, yeah, I have a good camera and enjoy going
out there and messing aroundwith it.
That's great.
Steve Morreale (56:40):
So, jim, I want to thank you for your time.
I know how busy you are and I'mso honored to call you a friend
but, more importantly, to seethe success that you have and
that you're fighting the fightand trying to, as you said when
you called that you were goingto take the job that you still
had more in you to to stay inpolicing.
(57:01):
So I'm very happy.
I wish you the best of luck,especially with your your
efforts to try to get morepeople to do the critical job
that you have in la, you havethe last word.
Do you have hope for policing inthe future?
Jim McDonnell (57:16):
I'm extremely optimistic when I look at the
young people coming out of theacademy, when I get the
opportunity to be able to go outand talk to people in the field
and hear the innovative waysthey're looking at things that
our generation wouldn't havethought to look at it that way
wouldn't have brought the sametools to bear on it.
They have a differentperspective, maybe one that we
don't immediately understand,but if you take the time and you
(57:36):
listen to the why, you comeaway nothing but impressed the
work ethic, very solid people,dedicated and committed to the
mission.
I walk away from theinteractions I have with people
and I couldn't be more proud ormore impressed with what they
bring to the table and just theattitude of giving, willing to
put it all on the line forsomeone they've never met.
(57:57):
That's a pretty noble cause.
Steve Morreale (58:00):
Well, you're a leader that many people are
willing to follow and I'm veryglad for that.
So thanks very much and thanksfor taking the time, jim.
Thank you, steve, take care,good luck, all the best.
And that's another episode ofthe Cop Talk podcast.
In the can, we have beentalking to Jim McDonald, the
chief of the Los Angeles PoliceDepartment.
I appreciate he's in LosAngeles today and we'll be back
(58:21):
with more episodes.
Keep in mind, if you have anidea of somebody I should be
talking to, let me know.
I'm always getting feedbackfrom you and I appreciate it.
We've been listening, we havebeen blessed to be listened to
in 89 countries, so thanks verymuch.
Have a good day, stay safe,keep your people safe.
Intro-Outro (58:54):
Have a good day, stay safe, keep your people safe
.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.