July 2, 2024 • 51 mins
Season 6 - Episode 132
Ever wondered what it takes to lead a university's public safety department while championing progressive policing practices? Meet Dr. Jennifer Griffin, the dynamic Chief of Temple University's Department of Public Safety and Vice President, who shares her remarkable journey in this can't-miss episode of the CopDoc Podcast. From her beginnings influenced by her father's law enforcement career to her pivotal role at Delaware State Police, Jennifer's story is one of resilience, mentorship, and leadership. She talks about her unique experiences, the importance of equal pay, and the invaluable lessons from her male mentors who played a significant role in shaping her career.
Jennifer also reflects on the unique challenges and triumphs women face in policing. With a background rooted in a military family, she brings a fresh perspective on resilience in law enforcement. The discussion takes a deep dive into the necessity for researchers to be embedded within police agencies to better understand stress, burnout, and resiliency among officers. Jennifer emphasizes how both internal and external research can lead to enhanced law enforcement practices, creating a stronger, more resilient police force.
Transitioning to her current role at Temple University, Jennifer discusses merging higher education with progressive policing. She shares her enthusiasm for evidence-based policing and her collaboration with researcher Jerry Ratcliffe, underscoring the importance of data-driven strategies. Listen to her insights on leadership, community engagement, and the structured approach she's implemented to drive significant changes within a short period. From setting expectations to fostering collaboration and building relationships, Jennifer's leadership lessons offer invaluable takeaways for anyone interested in the evolving landscape of policing.
Contact us: copdoc.podcast@gmail.com
Website: www.copdocpodcast.com
If you'd like to arrange for facilitated training, or consulting, or talk about steps you might take to improve your leadership and help in your quest for promotion, contact Steve at stephen.morreale@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro-Outro (00:02):
Welcome to T he CopDoc Podcast.
This podcast explores policeleadership issues and innovative
ideas.
The CopDoc shares thoughts andideas as he talks with leaders
in policing communities,academia and other government
agencies.
And now please join Dr.
(00:22):
Steve Morreale and industrythought leaders as they share
their insights and experience onT he CopDoc P odcast.
Steve Morreale (00:32):
Well, hello everybody.
Steve Morreale, coming to youfrom Boston this time, Another
episode of T he CopDoc P odcastbegins and we're heading down to
the city of brotherly love,Philadelphia, and we'll be
talking to Jennifer Griffin, thechief of the Temple University
Department of Public Safety.
She's a vice president and alsoDr.
Jennifer Griffin.
Hello, Jennifer.
Jennifer Griffin (00:52):
Hi, good morning.
Thank you for having me today.
Steve Morreale (00:54):
So glad to have you.
You have a storied history.
You came from the DelawareState Police and were a
commander there, and what thehell drew you into policing?
As you chuckle as I laugh.
Jennifer Griffin (01:08):
No, I was really fortunate.
My father was a police officer,so I grew up watching him get
dressed and ready for work.
He worked midnights for like 17years and as a little girl I
thought it was the most amazingjob.
It was like watching asuperhero get ready for work
every day and I just rememberhis stories.
He would come home and heworked at State College Borough,
which is the town around PennState, so he worked in a college
(01:32):
town and he used to talk aboutit and talk about the students
and all the great things he usedto do and people he was able to
help.
And then, as I got older, I didsome ride alongs with him,
which was another greatopportunity to kind of see
behind the scenes and I justfell in love with it.
I fell in love with the workand the purpose.
Steve Morreale (01:47):
So you were raised in Pennsylvania.
Jennifer Griffin (01:49):
Correct, yes, central Pennsylvania.
Okay, great.
Steve Morreale (01:51):
Great.
So what drew you?
Did you go to school and decideI want to be a trooper?
Were you a police officerelsewhere?
First Tell us that.
Jennifer Griffin (01:57):
So I was very fortunate.
I went to a great high schooland I played sports throughout
high school and policing was theonly thing I wanted to do.
It seemed like the only option,for you know both my
personality.
I enjoyed physical fitness.
I enjoyed helping people and alot of contact with different
types of people and so I went tocollege.
I went to Millersville andplayed on a basketball
(02:18):
scholarship, had a greatexperience and then applied for
a couple of agencies, got hiredby a couple of agencies and
turned them down.
I wanted to finish playing outmy last year and finish school
in three and a half years andthen took the position with the
Delaware State Police.
Steve Morreale (02:31):
Oh, that's great .
That's an unusual step to go toa state agency in a different
state.
What caused that?
Jennifer Griffin (02:37):
Well, I looked at Father was a huge influence
in kind of helping me navigatethe different types of agencies
and the work they did.
I did ride-alongs withdifferent agencies and I
realized that I wanted to go toan agency a state police agency
that had a lot of differentspecialized units, had a lot of
opportunities.
There was opportunities forpromotion, growth or transfers
(02:59):
and things like that and Iapplied at Pennsylvania State
Police, Delaware State Policeand Maryland State Police and so
I was.
You know, I got, I toldMaryland and Delaware I was
pretty far along in both oftheir processes and I told them
I really don't have preferenceeither way.
So whoever really calls mefirst.
And I got a call on a Wednesdayfrom the Delaware State Police,
from somebody who turned into amentor to me, Mark Seifert, and
(03:19):
he's at the University ofDelaware right now.
He ended up as the DelawareState Police Lieutenant Colonel
and he offered me a position.
I took it and Maryland calledon Thursday and I turned it down
.
Steve Morreale (03:32):
So it worked out .
I think things happen for areason.
Yeah, that is pretty neat.
Tell us a little bit about whatyou found at Delaware, s mall
state similar to Rhode Island.
How big was the organization,when did you go to the academy
and what did you end up doingwith them?
Jennifer Griffin (03:41):
So the Delaware State Police is when I
was there it was about 760police troopers statewide
organization.
The thing that I was reallydrawn to in Delaware is that
they're a full serviceorganization.
So, unlike some other statepolice or highway patrol
agencies, in the Delaware StatePolice we handled everything
from.
You could handle a crash withinjuries, go to a robbery with a
(04:01):
gun, handle a school bus crashand then help somebody whose
battery died in a parking lot.
So you got a lot of differenttypes of work and I enjoy I
really thought that that wouldbe something that I would enjoy.
You know the diversity of thework every day, not being kind
of doing one thing.
I had great experience in thetraining academy.
We have a live-in trainingacademy, as do most of the state
police, very physicallydemanding, and I enjoyed that
(04:24):
military aspect of the training.
I knew immediately I had a goodfit.
And then I had a great career.
I went to Troop 6, which is oneof the busiest troops in the
state.
I ended up starting andfinishing my command at Troop 6
as the commander.
So for me it really was astorybook career.
I loved it there.
I had great connections, greatco-workers and colleagues.
Steve Morreale (04:44):
Troop 6, as I was looking, is right there in
Wilmington, right.
So it's in a busy city withsuburbs.
I'm sure that attach to it.
So let's talk about how youended up, why you bothered being
promoted, why you felt the needto keep going for your
education.
What drew you to promotion?
Jennifer Griffin (05:02):
I think for me it was.
I had, you know, as all policeofficers, you probably have a
mix of supervisors that inspireyou and that you show up for
work every day because they'reyour leader and they would do
anything for you and you woulddo anything for them.
And then I had kind of theother end of the spectrum where
I had supervisors who you didn'tfeel cared for them and I
thought I want to be part ofleadership that mentors people
(05:25):
and brings people along andmakes a difference, and so for
me it was really taking that.
You know, I also feel youshouldn't complain about
something if you don't want tobe a part of the solution.
So for me I knew that gettingpromoted, mentoring other people
and continuing my own personalgrowth was important.
The PhD kind of just happened alittle bit.
I was three years into mycareer, starting to try to
(05:46):
figure out what I wanted to dowith the rest of my life, maybe
a little bit closer to two, andI went back and got my master's
and thoroughly enjoyed that.
I love the classes.
I really dug.
Oh, this is such a struggle,the, you know, the undergrad
life, and I remember that.
But then when I got to mymaster's.
I really hit the ground.
I just really enjoyed immersingmyself in learning and trying
(06:12):
out different theories,especially within policing and
human development.
And then I just continued atthe University of Delaware to
work on my doctorate.
Steve Morreale (06:19):
Why?
What's the benefit that youfind having finished that
doctorate?
It's an awful lot of work,especially while you're working.
What did you see the benefit?
Jennifer Griffin (06:28):
I think it was both for me, a little bit of
intrinsic and extrinsic as well.
Internally, I was searching formore.
I was searching for better waysto do things, more
understanding, and I thoughtthat continuing on with my
education, especially atUniversity of Delaware it's an
R1 institution especiallyembedded in the area that I was
(06:49):
living and working, and it justmade sense there seemed like
there was no other option,honestly for me is I had to
continue on.
And then, extrinsically, Ithought about okay, if I
continue on, there are very fewpeople within policing that have
a PhD, especially from an R1.
And this might open upopportunities.
I always loved instructing andtraining too, and so I thought
(07:10):
you know what, once I get this,I could take my skills and start
teaching at the collegiatelevel, you know, as an adjunct.
So you know, kind of was partof my plan and I was always
looking five, 10, 15 years downthe road.
I wanted to have multiple, likeoption B, c and D, and so this
played into when I grew up.
This could be another option fora career that I would want to
do.
Steve Morreale (07:29):
So we're talking to Jennifer Griffin.
She is the chief of TempleUniversity Department of Public
Safety in Philadelphia.
She is a PhD, as you just heard, and one of the things you just
said, Jennifer, strikes me andthat is what drives us what's
the benefit of earning adoctorate?
Jennifer Griffin (07:58):
And how does your thinking begin to morph and
grow?
Tell me about that.
And then it really changed me,because the world just got so
much bigger for me.
I grew up in a very small ruraltown in Pennsylvania and I
didn't have the wide, openperspective, and then I became a
state trooper and I had a greatexperience, but I just knew
there was more out there and so,by getting my education, I
(08:19):
started to get involved with theIACP and reading what PERF was
putting out and just looking atthese other peer-reviewed
journals on policing by peoplewho had never policed which is
always a unique thing, rightWriting about theory but have
never worked in the field or hadto deal with somebody and
deescalate a situation at threein the morning when people have
had 20 years of domestics andyou're called and you have like
(08:40):
15 to 30 minutes to solve theirlife problems with these skills
you have in your toolbox, and soI think it just really gave me
a lot of confidence too.
And as a woman in policing,there's still a lot of the 30 by
30, we're trying to get 30% ofour women in law enforcement by
2030.
Steve Morreale (08:56):
What a big mistake, jennifer.
What a big mistake.
I'm teasing, I'm teasing.
I'm fully supportive of that.
I was about to say the 30 by 30.
So certainly you are activelyinvolved in that Fair.
Jennifer Griffin (09:06):
Well, we haven't made the commitment for
our department yet, but we aredefinitely engaged in the
conversations and I just had aconversation with a young lady
yesterday.
She's actually a police officerin Pennsylvania and we were
talking about that and howimportant it is, as a female
leader, to represent, to showthat this is a position that we
can obtain.
It's not easy.
I will share that this has notbeen an easy path and it is
(09:29):
surely not for people who don'thave a strong spine and thick
skin.
Steve Morreale (09:33):
Well, that's interesting, let's focus on that
.
I have to imagine what year didyou start in policing?
Jennifer Griffin (09:38):
99.
Steve Morreale (09:38):
Okay, so I will relate to you that in 1978, I
came out of the army and therewas a move to allow police
officers to be women, who wereno longer matrons.
And I remember, actually, whenI was in MP school in 75, it was
the first year that we wereallowing the military not Steve
Morreale, but the military wasallowing women to be military
(10:01):
police officers.
And there were five and not allof them made it.
And so I watched I'm the fatherof three daughters, but I
watched, when I came back, myhometown hire 20 women because
there was money from the fedsand that will make things happen
.
What I watched with disdain andI was horrified that I was
driving by the police stationand in front of the police
(10:23):
station were men and women,police officers and wives and
family members holding signssaying no women in my husband's
cruiser.
So if you can imagine, I knowyou and what I want to say is
that we're far down the roadwith allowing women in policing,
but it doesn't mean you haven'thad struggles along the way,
(10:43):
and so I'd love you to chatabout that.
In other words, what did thosestruggles do for you to help you
get to where you are today?
Jennifer Griffin (10:51):
Sure.
Well, first, thank you for yourservice.
I'm fortunate that I grew up ina military family numerous
uncles, grandparents, my fatherso a huge amount of respect for
people who dedicate their livesto service For me.
I think that it reallysolidified my resolve in doing
this job.
I definitely my parents and mysiblings would say, and my
husband would say, like mypersonality is definitely, if
(11:13):
you tell me I can't do something, I will definitely do it and
I'm going to outdo everybodyelse.
That's kind of the approach,but I think for me I was.
I knew the struggles.
Like I said, my father was apolice officer.
I spent a lot of time with hiscolleagues, several of them
women, and they all had.
There was something about allof them that I was drawn to and
that was their just absoluteresilience and their
(11:35):
unforgivable nature for juststanding up for themselves and
others.
I watched numerous women thatmy dad worked with and I looked
at them and the amount ofrespect he was also their
trainer.
He was a field training coach,he was a firearms instructor for
the whole department and thelevel of respect that he had for
them and that he demanded ofhis colleagues.
I saw that with the DelawareState Police.
(11:56):
It was definitely extremelychallenging, even within
policing.
If you look at state police,the percentages of women are
much smaller, mainly because ofthe demand, the physical fitness
demands, and but I love thatthere's equal pay for equal work
.
I had so many mentors In fact,the majority of my mentors with
the state police were all men.
They saw the potential in meand they spent time and effort,
(12:18):
and so I.
Although it's been verychallenging and there are things
that we are continuing to workon, we have come a long way.
Steve Morreale (12:29):
You know what went through my mind?
An old adage.
It was an old, I think it was acigarette commercial.
You've come a long way, baby.
I'm not advocating the smokingside of it, but certainly I
think that that has happened.
I get the opportunity to speakto so many women that have made
their mark in policing and Ithink it's so important, and
acceptance is very, veryimportant in my mind, and I
(12:51):
think you bring a differentperspective, a different
mentality, certainly a differentempathy in some cases.
But we as men have to acceptthat we are equals and I need
you to back me up.
I really don't care.
It was no different when I wasin the military or even policing
or with DEA.
It really doesn't matter whatcolor, what affiliation you are,
what religion you are.
We're all on the same team andI think that's the important
thing that you go to push.
So we're talking to JenniferGriffin and she is the chief at
(13:13):
Temple and to me.
You are a pracademic and one ofthe things you said a little bit
ago was that you read things.
Leaders are readers, right?
If we don't read, I think we'recrazy and I'm curious to know
what you're reading.
But you also said something afew moments ago, and that was
that you read things that arewritten by people who know the
book but have never experiencedit.
I think that is a greatdifferentiation between someone
(13:34):
like you and someone like mewho've done it.
Look, I think I have to readilyadmit, and you too, we don't
know it all.
Far from it, far from it.
And in a lot of ways, a leaderasks questions and is curious
and allows others to help frametheir own views, not pretending
that they're a know-it-all, butlet's talk about that when you
(13:55):
were with the state police andyou were working with an R1
school in your education.
You are at the same R1.
Now how important is it for theright person who is a
researcher, to embed themselvesor to get involved with policing
?
It's got to be the right person.
Jennifer Griffin (14:13):
Tell me your experience that way.
It definitely has to be theright person with the right
mindset and it has to be theright agency.
I'll be honest with youPolicing, just in general, is a
very Insular.
Yeah, that was general is avery insular.
Yeah, that was the word I wassearching for.
But yeah, I mean, there's justnot always so accepting of
outside.
I think we're definitely betterthan we were a decade ago, but
(14:33):
still there's definitely in someplaces there's still a
resistance to having outsiderscome in and evaluate, tell
people how they should be doingthings, and I think one of the
things that drew me to my PhDwas an internal interest in, you
know, in my research, and whatI talk about and I'm still I
work with the IACP and DOJ as asubject matter expert is on, you
know, stress, burnout,resiliency.
(14:54):
Are there differentdemographics in law enforcement
that made people more resilientor less capable of handling the
stressors?
And then how do we deal withthat?
How do we make police officersmore resilient?
And so I think for me,continuing to learn, and
especially from people who aredoing research right, because
they're looking at it from adifferent perspective and
sometimes they can really standback.
(15:15):
It's hard when you're immersedin the challenges or the
day-to-day to sometimes havethat 25,000 foot view and when
you bring researchers in.
We had an assessment.
When I first got here we werein the midst of an assessment by
Commissioner Ramsey, retiredfrom the Philadelphia Police
Department, 21CP.
I was thrilled at that.
I took the job knowing theywere under an assessment and
(15:37):
some of my colleagues are like,why would you do that?
You're going into anorganization.
I mean, we weren't under aconsent decree by any means, but
you're under an evaluation andassessment.
You've had some challengingevents.
You know this surely is not theeasy retirement job that most
people who are looking to retirewould take.
For me I said this is theperfect situation for me.
I'm looking for a challenge, check.
(15:59):
I got it.
I was looking to merge my loveof higher education and policing
and I was looking for adepartment and an organization
at the university that wasprogressive.
They were interested inevolving and enhancing their
public safety and policing comeup to 21st century best
practices in every area.
So for me this was the perfectway to merge research, theory,
(16:23):
academia and law enforcement.
Steve Morreale (16:25):
So what do you think about evidence-based
policing and the move in thatdirection?
Jennifer Griffin (16:30):
We're a little bit behind.
I think we're a little bitbehind in our application of
evidence-based research.
Steve Morreale (16:35):
But you're open to it?
Oh gosh, yeah, I mean I talkedto.
I'm Jerry Radcliffe.
I was just going to say that.
Jennifer Griffin (16:43):
I met Jerry years ago because the Delaware
State Police was a veryprogressive data driven I mean
we were doing strategic policingand looking at hotspot policing
and so many different thingsusing data.
And I reached out to Jerry whenI was in the process and I said
, Jerry, we met this many yearsago.
I have your book, I'm thinkingabout coming to Temple and he's
(17:03):
been here and we spoke for atleast an hour and 15 minutes and
I remember because he wasoverseas at the time- he always
is.
He's always on the road, I knowI tell him all the time he has
the best life.
Steve Morreale (17:14):
He does.
Jennifer Griffin (17:15):
He's on sabbatical right now he's coming
back, but yes, he, he does?
Steve Morreale (17:17):
He's on sabbatical right now.
Jennifer Griffin (17:17):
He's coming back but, yes, he spent so much
time and talked to me about hisresearch and we use his research
on foot patrols.
He came to a supervisor'smeeting for me and talked about
his research and not only theimpact on the community but the
impact on the officers forconnecting with the community
while they're on foot patrolright, like explaining the why
is so important on gettingbuy-in.
(17:38):
So, yeah, so I'm definitely abeliever.
We have to use more of it.
We have to bring people intothe organization to evaluate
what we're doing.
21CP was amazing for startingthat conversation for us, but it
just has to continue.
Policing is evolving,especially at higher ed.
Steve Morreale (17:53):
So Jennifer Griffin is retired from the
Delaware State Police and is nowthe chief at Temple University
the Department of Public Safety.
As you look back on whereyou've been, where you are and
where you're going, talk aboutyour leadership lessons, Talk
about the people you saw aroundyou.
At the very beginning, you toldme that you worked for some
(18:16):
great supervisors and somemarginal supervisors, and if
we're open-minded enough, welearn from both what to do and
what not to do, what to emulateand what to avoid.
What are some of the things asyou stepped into the ranks that
you maybe made a mistake, butthey were valuable lesson.
Can you think of a situation ortwo?
Jennifer Griffin (18:35):
Yeah, I mean, I think and I'll just go back to
I think sometimes our greateststrength is also our greatest
weakness, and I know for me,like I'm a very and I again I've
had really good leaders,mentors and people who have been
very honest with me.
I'm always very open forfeedback, so I'm a coach and
people have told me you're verycoachable and I said, well, I'm
always because I'm not afinished product.
(18:57):
I'm constantly learning andgrowing.
Steve Morreale (18:59):
I can tell from here, looking at you, you're far
from finished.
I think that's a wonderfulmindset.
Go ahead.
Jennifer Griffin (19:06):
So I think for me it was looking at where I
was, where I want to go.
I was just really fortunate tomake mistakes in safe
environments and I think thebiggest thing that I always and
I continue to struggle with thisis my expectations and the pace
that I always and I continue tostruggle with this is my
expectations, and the pace thatI want to move is different than
sometimes the people that workaround me or for me.
(19:26):
And so it does it Well.
It frustrates me and I know itfrustrates them, because you
know I expect that we will getthings done at a certain pace
and that will be.
You know, I came into anorganization and there were so
many things that the officers,the dispatchers, our security
officers and our staff told melike needed change.
There was a reason that theycreated the position that I came
into.
It had never existed before avice president position and it
(19:49):
was posted for a civilian.
It wasn't posted for a swornofficer, and when I interviewed
for it, I the final interviewwith my boss, ken Kaiser at the
university I said I would liketo be sworn.
Is that going to be an issue?
And he was like you know, isthat important to you?
And I said yes, it's importantto me because I want to wear the
uniform.
I think it sets the tone.
I want to stand side by sidewith the officers, our police
(20:11):
officers, when we're dealingwith any issue.
And he said fine.
But I think the thing that Iconstantly learn and have to
relearn is setting expectations,making sure that I'm
communicating more than I thinkis necessary.
I have to remind myself too,like you've had, the value of a
(20:32):
master's and a PhD and a 25 yearcareer in a very high level
police organization, and you'recoming into a university
environment in a city that hashad a different experience, and
so for me it's really, you know,I'm reading.
Any one time I read like fiveor six books.
I've got audio books and listento podcasts.
I'm constantly trying to learnhow to lead the people where
they are that I'm so fortunateto be charged to take care of.
Steve Morreale (20:54):
Tell me, about the transition.
I came from 35 years in lawenforcement and walked into an
academic department and shortlythereafter I ended up leading
that department and I had tomodify both my expectations and
even my behavior, my approach.
Many people would say to me andthey know this is not about me
some would say take the cop hatoff, steve.
(21:16):
Most would say I can't believethat you're the most reasonable
one at the table.
So you had both sides, becauseI was trying not to be stern by
any means, trying to beinvolving others and getting
other people engaged and askingfor their input, and I want to
kind of talk about that.
How did you transition?
How have you found thedifference between the culture
(21:36):
at a university even though youare in a police?
role as opposed to a publicsafety organization, meaning a
state police organization.
Jennifer Griffin (21:45):
I tell my friends I said it's like being
dropped on the moon.
Policing is very similar right,we handle calls for service, we
help people, we were problemsolvers.
But working in this environmentis different in that the
universities are just morecollaborative, and somebody
recently told me I said I justcan't put my finger on what it
(22:07):
is at the university, within thestate police, I was very
fortunate I had two differentoperation commands that I led.
I ran our internal affairs.
I was the commander, thedirector of training, which
oversaw the firearms unit, allof training and the canine unit,
and I was fortunate that I gotto do what I needed to do every
day.
I made decisions, made ithappen and moved on, and I get
to do that still.
(22:27):
But at the university there's alot more discussion about
things.
Steve Morreale (22:31):
Oh my goodness, does it slow down, don't you?
Walk into meetings sometimeswhere commiserating here about
what goes on on campus Not thatit's bad, but let's think about
it, let's get some more feedback.
I'm not sure that we have tocome up with an answer right now
and we're coming from anorganization.
We've got to deal with thistomorrow or next week.
The sense of urgency on campusis completely different.
(22:51):
Fair statement yes.
Jennifer Griffin (22:52):
Oh my God.
I mean, I talked to somebodyrecently and they phrased it
perfectly.
They said at the universitieswe like to admire the problem.
Steve Morreale (23:01):
I love it.
Jennifer Griffin (23:02):
Talk about it, we like to discuss it, we like
to get and I said, you know, insome aspects I really like it.
There's a time and a place forthat, but then there's also like
a lot of opportunities.
The difference between policingis a lot of the things we deal
with.
We take the information we have, we have to make decisions and
we have, we have to makedecisions and we have to move
forward right, because the nextcrisis is just around the corner
and if you don't make decisionson things, you know things back
(23:23):
up and you don't get thingsaccomplished.
So for me, I'm reading a lot ofthings right now about being
laser focused, how to continueto prioritize the strategies and
the different initiatives thatwe want to do while managing the
day-to-day.
And part of that, when I came in, was looking and working with
21CP and doing my own assessment.
My first 90 days I said I'mgoing to do a listen and learn
(23:47):
and I went out and foot patrol.
I went in the cars, I sat downwith supervisors and officers,
dispatchers and security, andthen I met with university
leaders to really hear like,where are we at, what are the
challenges, what are thecomplaints, and then where do we
need to go and then build itand restructure the whole
department.
And then we're really, at thispoint just short of two years,
hitting the ground running withwhat I call the five pillars of
the way I organize everythingthat we're doing, and it's
(24:08):
personnel, equipment, technology, training and professional
development strategy, and thencommunication and collaboration,
and we've been able to makeover a hundred different changes
in those five pillars withinthe first year and a half, not
by yourself, correct?
Steve Morreale (24:23):
Not by yourself.
Oh gosh, no, no, no.
Jennifer Griffin (24:25):
This is not.
There was a great group ofpeople.
I mean, the reason I took thisjob is because I came up here
and did my own surveillance andbefore I applied and I met
officers and I walked intobuildings and I met people,
talked to students and I sawsuch great potential.
I'm like this place.
First of all, it's a beautifulcampus.
(24:45):
Our students wereoverwhelmingly helpful.
I mean, I've been on a lot, alot of college campuses and when
I met kids from Temple, I meanhow do you get here, how do you
ride the train, how do you dothat?
I mean the kids were sooverwhelmingly helpful and
approachable.
Yeah, isn't that nice.
Steve Morreale (24:56):
So we're talking to Jennifer Griffin she is Dr
Jennifer Griffin down at TempleUniversity, and a few things
that come to mind are about thejob of a leader and you've
talked a little bit about yourleadership approach, and I guess
, before I start, that there'sone thing I failed to do, and
that was to ask you to identifyand help the listener understand
(25:17):
just how big the campus is andhow big the organization is.
Jennifer Griffin (25:21):
Sure.
So Temple University sits inNorth Philadelphia, in the city,
and we have about a one milesquare main campus and we have
approximately 30,000 students,combination of undergraduate and
graduate, about nine to 10,000faculty staff.
We also have multiple campusesthroughout the city our health
sciences campus, where TempleUniversity Hospital is, and then
(25:41):
we have the Ambler campus, Harrisburg Center, city.
We have international campuses,but for the most part we
leverage our resources for threeof the campuses to have
students at, and so ourorganization varies.
I mean, one of the biggestchallenges in law enforcement
right now is retentionrecruitment, especially for law
enforcement officers, really forany care workers right now
(26:03):
teachers, nurses, policeofficers.
Steve Morreale (26:06):
So and you've got the medical center that
you're responsible to for twoyes, ok.
Jennifer Griffin (26:09):
Health sciences yes.
Steve Morreale (26:10):
I see.
So let's talk about this ideaof leadership.
As I intimated a little bit ago, seems to me that a leader has
to deal with.
They have to manage and lead.
At the same time, they have todevelop others.
One of the things that strikesme is the responsibility to keep
your head on a swivel.
I liken it to either being aradar you better turn back
because you're going to miss itright A radar screen or a
(26:33):
sprinkler, and that, as a leader, you're going to be distracted.
But where do you find thewherewithal after that crisis is
over to get back on track?
Talk about that.
I'm sure you've found yourselfin many, many situations where
you become distracted.
Yet you know what I like thatwhat you said is the leader
having a forward thinking orforward moving mindset.
(26:54):
So just talk a little bit aboutthat from the Jennifer
perspective.
Jennifer Griffin (26:57):
The most important thing is the people
right.
It's the people that you havearound you and their ability to
bring information to you, todistill it down and then to
empower people to move forwardon initiatives that we want to
work on.
So I think for me, coming intothe organization, part of the
reorganization is creatingdifferent units.
We had people doing fivedifferent jobs.
I was shocked at the number ofjobs my executive assistant was
(27:21):
doing.
That really were not executiveassistant responsibilities, and
so it was really creating peopleand then developing them.
So I think, for me, being laserfocused, definitely different
than it was two years ago when Icame with the structure that we
had.
And now we've built up thefoundation and we're supporting
the units that were here andthat are existing.
But it's really something that Ispend every morning and evening
(27:43):
doing is looking at what's mycalendar look like tomorrow.
What are the three things Iwant to accomplish, starting the
morning before I leave my house, looking at the calendar again.
What are the three things Ineed to accomplish today?
What are the meetings I have?
You know, what are the agendas?
Have I already set meetingagendas?
How are we moving through this?
Setting deadlines for people Igive a responsibility or I give
a task and then I also givewe're going to meet in a week
(28:05):
and this is the expectation thatit'll be done, and if you need
anything you come back to me andI'll help you.
So it's also providing support,like what information do you
need, what support do you need?
And sometimes it's me making aphone call to another unit here
at the university and say, hey,we need support with this, or me
pushing a project along alittle bit.
So for me it's really somethingas a leader you have to spend
(28:25):
time at or you get nothingaccomplished, because everybody
is buying for your time andeverybody is buying for your
attention.
And if you don't have strategy,if you don't have a specific,
intentional way you are going toattack problems, you get bogged
down in the day-to-day.
Steve Morreale (28:40):
I would say that that's more of a manager than a
leader, and so that becomesimportant as reflection,
important in your life.
It sounds like that's exactlywhat you're doing morning and
evening.
Jennifer Griffin (28:48):
Yes, and that's I would say that's part
of my resiliency practice aswell is, you know, not every day
goes well.
I think that saying issometimes you're the fly,
sometimes you're the windshield.
A lot of days I go home and I'mlike I'm not sure which one I
was, but it's what did weaccomplish today?
What can I be grateful for?
And before I go to bed, Ialways list what are the three
things that I'm grateful fortoday and when I wake up in the
morning, what are the threethings I'm looking forward to.
(29:09):
And I think that sets the tonefor your mentality and your
resilience and getting throughchallenges.
Trying to instill that in thepeople that I work with.
It's easy to get bogged down inthe negative.
Our brains are drawn towardssurviving and negative and so
it's really trying to create anenvironment where people yeah,
there's a lot of challenges Imean, that's the nature of
policing Nobody calls and sayshey, I'm having an awesome day,
(29:30):
I don't need your help.
People call when they are incrisis, when they can't solve
their own life issues, when theworst thing in their lives have
happened to them and we need tobe at our best and help them.
So I think that you know.
For me, you know, leading isalso making sure that I'm taking
care of my own mental healthand I'm making sure that the
people around me are doing thatas well, cause you can't pour
from an empty vessel, andpolicing has been really
(29:53):
challenged the last couple ofyears.
Steve Morreale (29:54):
Oh, that's an understatement.
I read that you had some handin developing a wellness app.
I guess it was with DelawareState Police.
Did I read that correctly?
Jennifer Griffin (30:04):
So I was at the time.
It was Colonel NathanielMcQueen.
He's now the superintendent forHomeland Security and he I went
to him and I said I think weneed a wellness unit and this is
what I would like to do, and Icame up with a proposal and he
was okay, do it?
So fortunate that I hadsomebody who saw the potential
and created SOPs and we broughta team together and we started
looking.
(30:24):
We did surveys and then wepartnered with a group that had
a wellness app and we brought itto the state police.
We developed resiliency trainers.
We were doing resiliencytrainers for all new police
officers.
I used to do yoga with the newrecruits.
We did supervisors trainingwith resiliency, and so I found
that very beneficial.
The officers are civilians aswell found it very beneficial,
(30:46):
and so we're currently workingon developing a wellness unit
here.
And what would that look likewith training?
We have a monthly newsletterthat we put out and one of the
notes in there is a wellnesscorner.
So it's really about evolvingto the department's needs.
But we're going to be doing alot of the same things here, as
well as additional things,because the university has more
resources than we had back withthe Delaware State Police for
(31:08):
mental health and wellness andnutritional counseling and
financial counseling, thingslike that.
Steve Morreale (31:12):
Chief Griffin, take me into a meeting with you,
not to disparage yourpredecessor, but what are the
changes that you made in settingexpectations in your meetings
and getting feedback and notexpecting silence, not expecting
nodding and bland agreementwith you?
Tell me how you drew people inso that you could utilize their
(31:34):
intellect and their curiosityand add value.
Jennifer Griffin (31:37):
I think the first one was just acknowledging
I don't know working within auniversity environment.
I need all of you to share withme your two, three, 20, 50
years as a police officer atTemple, and so really be an
opening to listening.
I mean, we, as soon as I gothere and we started monthly
supervisors meetings and thatwas really an opportunity for
(31:58):
them to come in here.
What are you seeing?
What are you hearing?
How does it feel out there?
How can we help you?
What are the things, what arethe obstacles that you're facing
, what are the challenges?
And then talking through thoseand as well as we send out
newsletters, emails, departmentwide emails to try to increase
that communication, we started alot of different things with
(32:19):
student organizations.
I have a student safetyadvisory committee and that's
really an opportunity for me tosit down in my command staff, to
sit down with students fromvery diverse backgrounds
throughout the universitystudent government and hear
their perspectives.
And because of those meetings wemade huge changes to our social
media, to how we communicatewith students, the parents, the
(32:39):
faculty, how we engage with ourcommunity in what they needed
and how they needed to hear fromus, and so for me, it's
constantly building that timeinto my calendar.
Like I said, everybody wantsyour time and it's really
sometimes a challenge, butbuilding that time into my
schedule to really listen topeople and hear the challenges.
I would say we are not where Iwould like us to be, and I think
(33:01):
it's just.
I had a friend who's a chiefand he said it took him six
years to get the structure setup and to build those
relationships.
And so for me I just remindmyself we're not where we wanna
be and we have to do it together.
We're in this together and weneed to move together.
Steve Morreale (33:17):
You're bringing so many things to mind.
I'm thinking about communitypolicing and how does that work
for you.
How do you bring that to theorganization?
How do you bring this to thecampus?
How did that outreach help youavoid something like a Columbia
or an NYU episode?
Curious about that.
And also, how does culture playinto this?
Jennifer Griffin (33:37):
What we saw after COVID really shut down.
Businesses shut down,universities shut down.
There was a lot less interactionwith people in general and then
, as COVID kind of waned off andpeople got back to this new
normal, the engagement started,but people were still hesitant.
And I think that that's one ofthe things with police officers
is, the more you I always felt,the more I engaged with the
(33:58):
community, the more rewardingthe job became, because you can
really get bogged down with thechallenges that people are
facing and the emotional laborthat you take on when every
complaint you go to somebody isin crisis, and also creating
opportunities for the communityto see a police officer, not
when they call 9-1-1, you knowthat they're actually people we
enjoy engaging with you.
So I think it's really engagingwith the community, making sure
(34:21):
that we're working with them.
We just recently worked withone of the high schools and
that's getting all of ourorganization, not just police
officers but our dispatchers andour security officers engaged
in the community to have thatrelationship.
But we had a local high schoolwithin the patrol zone that we
rebuilt their greenhouse withthem and we had the student
athletes from the rowing teamcome and do that as well and as
(34:42):
a result of that and that andother connections, as well as
the students from the community,we have 40 young adults who
just are graduating tomorrowfrom the high school are coming
to Temple.
University it was a draw, and sothe relationships that are so,
the relationships that areengagement, unit and we are
forging with public safety inthese schools or the community.
(35:03):
These are long-termrelationships.
I mean, our students may behere.
I jokingly tell them, you mightbe here four, five, maybe six
years if your parents willcontinue to pay for it.
But we're the consistent, thecommunity, the people.
There are people in thiscommunity who've lived in that
same brownstone or that same rowhouse for 40, 50, 60 years and
so we want to leave it betterthan it was when we got here,
(35:25):
and so I think that's the thingthat I try to remind.
We move forward with communitypolicing and just like our foot
patrols you know mandatory footpatrols for all the police
officers in cars, 90 minutes oftheir 12 hour shifts.
You got to get out of the car.
You got to walk and do some yeah, you got to do some business
place checks.
I have one scheduled later ontoday with one of the officers.
We're going to get out and dosome foot patrol.
(35:47):
But making those connections isreally good for the community
but it's really good for ourofficers too.
Steve Morreale (35:52):
Yeah, it's mutually beneficial, as you say,
because you get to see peoplenot at their worst time, but
you're able to show the humanityof policing, which I think is
important.
We're, but you're able to showthe humanity of policing, which
I think is important.
We are all human beings andthere's nothing really special
about us except for the trainingand the care.
I think that very much helps.
When you I use the term pressthe flesh, that minimizes it.
It's about knowing the peopleand building relationships for
(36:15):
the long term and makingyourself approachable, and I
think that's to benefit.
We need more friends.
And it strikes me too, asyou're talking here, you are a
police organization on a campusand come May, the campus
dwindles right.
Everybody goes home, graduationis done and you're there during
that period of time where, yeah, there's still people who come
(36:36):
on for summer programs or forsummer school, but you're the
constant faculty leave.
Administration stays but thefaculty leave, and I think
that's important.
We're talking again to JenniferGriffin and she is the chief at
Temple University.
She is a PhD herself.
One of the things I'd like toask you, jennifer, is what are
the benefits of not being myopicby reaching out, by belonging
(37:00):
to chiefs associations?
By reaching out, by belongingto chiefs associations, both
campus and either local or state, what are the benefits of IACP?
How have you grown?
How have you come to go andlisten?
And I hope to see you in Bostonbecause IACP.
I'm a member since 88 and IACPcomes to Boston.
What are the benefits of thoseprofessional associations?
Jennifer Griffin (37:20):
Well, it's incredible.
I mean it's incredible for anew police officer just being
involved with thoseorganizations to learn how other
agencies we're all experiencingmany similar things nationwide
right Universities in Boston andNew York, philly, dealing with
a lot of the same issues thatthey are on the West Coast and
how we network in thoseorganizations the IACP.
(37:42):
I mean I've been really blessedthat I've been a part of their
belong to different groupswithin IACP and I'm a subject
matter expert.
I do stuff with their Crytekteam and the Department of
Justice and that gives me moreinsight into what is going on at
other agencies.
And then when we have somethinggoing on here, I have a network
of people to reach out to andsay, hey, we're dealing with
(38:03):
this.
I see you've already dealt withit.
Can you share with me yourpolicy?
What were the challenges?
What were the obstacles?
We can shorten the amount oftime that we have to spin our
wheels when you have thosenetworks and those connections,
and especially for IACP, I meanthe networks are amazing.
I went through the FBI NationalAcademy.
Steve Morreale (38:21):
What was your class number?
Jennifer Griffin (38:22):
268.
Okay, just so that networkalone.
You know I'm on the trainingcommittee for the FBI National
Academy.
I've gone to Quantico and hadthe opportunity to present and
teach down there and just theamount of networking and the
information sharing people inthose groups nobody is hoarding
what they're doing or hiding it.
I mean, I'm on a lot of emailchains and we're sharing
(38:43):
policies and we're especiallythis last year, right We've the
last semester has reallypresented some unique challenges
for universities and having theopportunity to share and
leverage that information isinvaluable.
Steve Morreale (38:55):
Yeah, especially on campus.
And the big issue is right todemonstrate and freedom of
expression, and our universityjust put out a new policy that I
just read the other day.
How about Temple and its othercampuses?
Jennifer Griffin (39:06):
I think I was fortunate.
I came into the university andat the time it was Commissioner
Outlaw.
I had been acquainted with heroutside before I came to this
job.
And now you have CommissionerKevin Bethel, who I'm good
friends with.
I met him early on when I washere.
He was a great resource I mean,he's a good friend,
commissioner Ramsey, so Iimmediately was able to forge
(39:28):
relationships and their uppercommand.
I would say that we probablyspeak about something not always
like issues or crisis, but justtouching base on different
things at least once a week.
So great relationship withPhilly and people always ask me
that.
I think they're always thinkingthat you know, like we're a
university and they treat usbadly, you know, or something,
and couldn't be more opposite weare.
So I just saw the commissionerand his command staff at an
(39:50):
event last week and it's alwaysmutual respect and support.
How can we work together?
What resources can we leverage?
I mean we are all working tobuild up the number of police
officers within the city, withinall the organizations, so we
have to work smarter and I thinkthat's created a lot of
opportunities to collaborate.
Steve Morreale (40:05):
I'm going to go back to something before we
begin to wind down your time onthe Delaware State Police.
There's always this aura aboutthe state police and statewide
jurisdiction and sometimescertain people looking down on
local police as opposed to statepolice, and it was always my
belief is badge is a badge is abadge.
(40:26):
We've got to get along.
How did you drive thatexpectation of mutual trust and
mutual respect when you were inposition of authority, of
leadership with Delaware StatePolice?
Jennifer Griffin (40:37):
I think just the way that the Delaware State
Police trains it was prettyformative because the Delaware
State Police I think just theway that the Delaware State
Police trains.
It was pretty formative becausethe Delaware State Police was
at the time there was only threepolice academies in the state,
so for the 50 plus agencies theDelaware State Police trained
the majority of law enforcementofficers in the state at our
training academy.
So I went through a trainingacademy with 70 people and it
(40:59):
was locals.
Troopers.
We wore the same recruituniform, we slept in the same
hard beds, we did the same PT,we had the same commandants
screaming at you.
I know, I know, I know the samepeanut butter and jelly for
lunch.
I mean we, it was the commonstruggle and we forged
relationships.
So I think the universe, youknow, like the way that Delaware
(41:20):
state police operated, the waywe train, the way we co-train
with agencies, I mean we were, Ithink, one of the first in the
nation went to alert for activeshooter training, requiring all
police officers train on thesame platform, and the Delaware
State Police was one of the leadagencies that trained all
police in the state.
We share resources, we supportour law.
I never had the feeling likethat.
We were looking down on them.
(41:41):
Maybe they would have adifferent experience, but in
some places in the state theywere your only backup.
You might, especially in SussexCounty, you're a trooper down
there like your backups.
Another trooper might be 20plus minutes away and that local
officer was your lifeline.
And so people respected eachother and I really valued.
And then when I came here I getthe same feeling of respect
from the Philadelphia PoliceDepartment, their officers.
(42:03):
I mean I work a lot with someof the events we have.
I've seen no difference.
Steve Morreale (42:06):
Good, I'm glad to hear that, because that has
been something that has sort oflingered in certain places.
I went to New Hampshire PoliceAcademy and state police trained
in the same academy a stateacademy so I understand that and
it certainly changed the wholeperspective which I think is
(42:28):
very, very important.
Jennifer Griffin (42:28):
I think there's also a responsibility.
I think it was ingrained in usas troopers, Like you have a
responsibility because we didhave more officers and more
troopers.
We had different, diverse units, we had homicide aviation, we
had everything SWAT units.
It was a responsibility that wewould support our local
partners.
I mean we call them sisteragencies for a reason.
You know I had the president'sdetail and the vice president.
President Biden lived in mytroop area.
I oversaw his motorcade and hisresidence for several different
(42:49):
years and you can't do thatwithout good relationships and
partnerships, and that's thesame in Philadelphia.
You cannot keep communitiessafe without relationships and
partnerships.
Steve Morreale (42:58):
I mean, I believe that there's not enough
of us in the first place, and sofor us to have infighting makes
no sense whatsoever.
So we're winding down withJennifer Griffin and tell me
what's on your list of thingsthat you would like to
accomplish in the next littlebit that we have with a couple
(43:18):
of key positions.
Jennifer Griffin (43:19):
Accreditation is one of them.
You know, I think it's reallyimportant that agencies are
accredited.
It's important for ourorganization, for the university
.
It sets the standard.
Steve Morreale (43:28):
Yes, what accreditation will you seek?
CALEA and P LEAC, oh good, andIACLEA which is the oh, wow,
that's a lot.
Where are you going to
Jennifer Griffin (43:39):
In the lobby.
We're going to put all of thosein the lobby so that people can
see them.
But no, I mean once you achieveKaliya, the other ones are a
walkover, so it should be mucheasier.
But I think continuing to workto change culture here and
develop relationships I think isreally important, and those are
the things that I focus on.
How do we continue to changeculture and the belief system?
(44:01):
How do we create an environmentwhere people enjoy coming to
work in a country right now thatpeople are working from home
and hybrid and they have a lotof different opportunities?
And how do we get people tocome into public service?
How can we encourage youngpeople to do a life of service
and see that be purpose driven?
Steve Morreale (44:18):
How does Dr Griffin select things that she
wishes to read up on?
Where do you find some of thatmaterial?
What books, what feeder do youuse to get?
Is it IACP?
Where are you finding some ofyour research?
Jennifer Griffin (44:33):
articles.
So a couple of different places.
I would say, as somebody whojust enjoys books in general and
I, one of the draws of Templewas we have this amazing library
and I have great access towhatever I would want and I one
of the draws of Temple was wehave this amazing library and I
have great access to whatever Iwould want.
But I think for me it's whatissue am I dealing with right
now, professionally orpersonally?
And then I just like any goodscholar, I research who are the
(44:54):
experts in that field.
I read what they write, books,articles.
I also still do a lot of peerreview for different police
journals, police quarterlyinternational journal.
So I still do a lot of readingto build up my own knowledge.
And then you know, I use thecommon things like everybody
else.
I go on Amazon, I use BlinkistHeadway, tons of different apps,
(45:15):
audio books and I listen tobooks and I usually to cram more
in, I'll listen to them on like1.5 speed, no, so I can get.
Steve Morreale (45:24):
Is that why you speak so quickly?
No, I'm kidding, maybe yeah.
Jennifer Griffin (45:28):
And same thing for podcasts.
Usually when I have an issuethat I'm dealing with or I'm
trying to find a better option,you know, I just research it and
then I find the people that areexperts in that field.
I leverage the IACP and PERFand other places.
Steve Morreale (45:41):
National Police Foundation.
Jennifer Griffin (45:43):
National Police Foundation.
Steve Morreale (45:44):
That's good.
So does Jennifer Griffin.
Have you begun to takeadvantage of AI?
Jennifer Griffin (45:52):
So we're using a couple, both professionally
here at the university.
We are.
We're currently in the processof adding artificial
intelligence, gun detectiondevices, overlaying over.
We have almost 1, almost 1500cameras here on our campuses, so
we're overlaying some gundetection devices, license plate
readers.
But personally, yeah, I use Chat GPT and kind of look things
(46:12):
up.
I mean sometimes it's justtrying to research and get a
different perspective on things.
But I think AI is going tocontinue to.
It should be seen as a tool.
I remember years ago peoplewere like, oh every, all your
jobs, all these jobs in theUnited States are going to be
replaced by a robot whatever.
Steve Morreale (46:31):
No, it still needs human intervention.
I they're shocked that I wouldallow them to use it.
But if we don't allow them touse it, they're going to use it
anyway.
I mean, who are we fooling?
But it takes human intervention.
What I'll say is don't you justhand me something?
Cut and paste look at it andthen dig into it and see if it
works for us.
How about we modify it forTemple University or for
Worcester State University?
So I'm glad to hear that you'rewilling to be an early adopter
(46:52):
within reason.
Jennifer Griffin (46:52):
Oh yeah, and I , I still I'm an adjunct
professor, I still, you know.
So I think it's just anothertool.
We should use it as anothertool.
It's not going to be the magicbullet, it's not going to be
going to answer every questionfor us, but it can really help
and narrow down the informationsometimes.
And I think for students, aslong as they're using it
responsibly, they're notplagiarizing.
I always give them questions.
(47:13):
That has to have a humanelement.
Give me an example in your lifewhere you could have utilized
it.
So, as much as they want to useit, they definitely are going
to have to still use their braintoo.
I understand.
Steve Morreale (47:23):
And my last question, so as an adjunct,
you'll appreciate this.
I'm not attacking people, butsomebody just wrote something
and I said, hmm, this has thesound of AI, yes or no?
That's all I wrote yes or no,and if yes, why?
And why is this the first I'mhearing of it, and so then I
made them go back and writeagain, but I got their attention
, you understand.
(47:44):
So, if you had the chance, as anevolving leader in other words,
constantly evolving to improve.
Is there somebody in the pastthat has passed that you would
love to sit down and pick theirbrain?
That would help you become abetter leader, help you deal
with issues in a better way.
Jennifer Griffin (48:02):
I would say it has to be a leader.
I would say there's a coupledifferent people maybe that I
would reach out to.
I would say that definitelycontinue to read.
And this is somebody who'sstill alive, but you know the
Bill Brattons of the world.
I'm fortunate.
Chuck Ramsey is not onlysomebody who did an assessment
for us but has become a realfriend and mentor to me and
(48:23):
answers my phone calls when Icall and is still a good
supporter.
We're sitting on a panel lateron this month, so I'm fortunate.
I would say to people like Imiss my grandparents.
They were always verysupportive and I think sometimes
, as police leaders, we alsoneed support and just having
people that can provide moment,you know, a grounding foundation
for us, and that I think that'swhat I've very much benefited
(48:45):
from over the years with havinggreat mentors, and so those
would be the people I'd want.
Steve Morreale (48:48):
I think that's great, it's interesting.
I get the advantage of seeingyou on camera and I just saw a
little piece when you talkedabout your grandparents, a
little piece of emotion, whichis just amazing because you
understand, we're all human, andit just brought up such a nice
memory, I'm sure, for you, and Iappreciate you sharing it.
Well, we've been talking toJennifer Griffin.
She is Dr.
Jennifer Griffin, the Chief ofPolice and the Vice President at
(49:09):
Temple University, theDepartment of Public Safety, and
I have to tell you it's been apleasure to chat with you as a
parting opportunity for you tohave the last word.
What would you say to youngpeople about policing who have
seen the things on televisionthat paint us in such a negative
way?
What would you say to convincethem that this might be
something to consider?
Jennifer Griffin (49:30):
I would say I've done this job for 25 years
and it is constantly evolving.
It's one of the things I loveabout the job.
No day is the same as the last.
I'm proud to be a policeofficer here at Temple
University.
I'm proud of our policeofficers, our dispatchers, our
security officers, and if you'relooking for a job where you are
purpose driven, where you areinterested in making changes and
(49:51):
you're interested in being apart of a community and working
at both the micro and the macrolevel, like you want to really
get into it.
University policing is a greatopportunity.
I've done and I tell people Ilove my state police time.
I absolutely enjoyed driving upand down the interstate and
going to robberies and handlingall kinds of stuff.
At the university you get to doeverything from helping
(50:11):
students who are in mentalhealth crisis to dealing with
crime, to doing traffic, todoing foot patrol.
Business place just graduate.
We're in the midst of highschool graduations now and had a
week of commencement andgraduation ceremonies and that's
something I didn't get to do inmy previous job.
Steve Morreale (50:27):
I mean, I think it's really unique.
Those are fun times, aren'tthey?
They're hopeful times, aren'tthey?
Jennifer Griffin (50:30):
Yeah, it reminds you why we are here.
It really reminds you, like,the reason we are here to serve
this community, to serve theuniversity and to serve each
other.
Steve Morreale (50:39):
Well, thank you for your time, for your energy
and for your sharing.
You have some innovative ideasand I'm very, very appreciative
that you shared them with ourlisteners.
Thank you, Jennifer.
Jennifer Griffin (50:49):
Thank you for having me and I'll see you in
Boston.
See you in Boston.
Steve Morreale (50:52):
Well, that's it.
Another episode of T he CopDocPodcast is in the books.
Thanks for listening.
We'll be with you with moreepisodes.
If you have somebody in mindthat we should be talking to,
please don't be afraid to reachout.
All the best to you.
Stay safe.
Intro-Outro (51:08):
Thanks for listening to T he Cop Doc
Podcast with Dr.
Steve Morreale.
Steve is a retired lawenforcement practitioner and
manager, turned academic andscholar from Worcester State
University.
Please tune into T he Cop DocPodcast for regular episodes of
interviews with thought leadersin policing.
Welcome to T he CopDoc Podcast.
This podcast explores policeleadership issues and innovative
ideas.
The CopDoc shares thoughts andideas as he talks with leaders
in policing communities,academia and other government
agencies.
And now please join Dr.
(00:22):
Steve Morreale and industrythought leaders as they share
their insights and experience onT he CopDoc P odcast.
Steve Morreale (00:32):
Well, hello everybody.
Steve Morreale, coming to youfrom Boston this time, Another
episode of T he CopDoc P odcastbegins and we're heading down to
the city of brotherly love,Philadelphia, and we'll be
talking to Jennifer Griffin, thechief of the Temple University
Department of Public Safety.
She's a vice president and alsoDr.
Jennifer Griffin.
Hello, Jennifer.
Jennifer Griffin (00:52):
Hi, good morning.
Thank you for having me today.
Steve Morreale (00:54):
So glad to have you.
You have a storied history.
You came from the DelawareState Police and were a
commander there, and what thehell drew you into policing?
As you chuckle as I laugh.
Jennifer Griffin (01:08):
No, I was really fortunate.
My father was a police officer,so I grew up watching him get
dressed and ready for work.
He worked midnights for like 17years and as a little girl I
thought it was the most amazingjob.
It was like watching asuperhero get ready for work
every day and I just rememberhis stories.
He would come home and heworked at State College Borough,
which is the town around PennState, so he worked in a college
(01:32):
town and he used to talk aboutit and talk about the students
and all the great things he usedto do and people he was able to
help.
And then, as I got older, I didsome ride alongs with him,
which was another greatopportunity to kind of see
behind the scenes and I justfell in love with it.
I fell in love with the workand the purpose.
Steve Morreale (01:47):
So you were raised in Pennsylvania.
Jennifer Griffin (01:49):
Correct, yes, central Pennsylvania.
Okay, great.
Steve Morreale (01:51):
Great.
So what drew you?
Did you go to school and decideI want to be a trooper?
Were you a police officerelsewhere?
First Tell us that.
Jennifer Griffin (01:57):
So I was very fortunate.
I went to a great high schooland I played sports throughout
high school and policing was theonly thing I wanted to do.
It seemed like the only option,for you know both my
personality.
I enjoyed physical fitness.
I enjoyed helping people and alot of contact with different
types of people and so I went tocollege.
I went to Millersville andplayed on a basketball
(02:18):
scholarship, had a greatexperience and then applied for
a couple of agencies, got hiredby a couple of agencies and
turned them down.
I wanted to finish playing outmy last year and finish school
in three and a half years andthen took the position with the
Delaware State Police.
Steve Morreale (02:31):
Oh, that's great .
That's an unusual step to go toa state agency in a different
state.
What caused that?
Jennifer Griffin (02:37):
Well, I looked at Father was a huge influence
in kind of helping me navigatethe different types of agencies
and the work they did.
I did ride-alongs withdifferent agencies and I
realized that I wanted to go toan agency a state police agency
that had a lot of differentspecialized units, had a lot of
opportunities.
There was opportunities forpromotion, growth or transfers
(02:59):
and things like that and Iapplied at Pennsylvania State
Police, Delaware State Policeand Maryland State Police and so
I was.
You know, I got, I toldMaryland and Delaware I was
pretty far along in both oftheir processes and I told them
I really don't have preferenceeither way.
So whoever really calls mefirst.
And I got a call on a Wednesdayfrom the Delaware State Police,
from somebody who turned into amentor to me, Mark Seifert, and
(03:19):
he's at the University ofDelaware right now.
He ended up as the DelawareState Police Lieutenant Colonel
and he offered me a position.
I took it and Maryland calledon Thursday and I turned it down
.
Steve Morreale (03:32):
So it worked out .
I think things happen for areason.
Yeah, that is pretty neat.
Tell us a little bit about whatyou found at Delaware, s mall
state similar to Rhode Island.
How big was the organization,when did you go to the academy
and what did you end up doingwith them?
Jennifer Griffin (03:41):
So the Delaware State Police is when I
was there it was about 760police troopers statewide
organization.
The thing that I was reallydrawn to in Delaware is that
they're a full serviceorganization.
So, unlike some other statepolice or highway patrol
agencies, in the Delaware StatePolice we handled everything
from.
You could handle a crash withinjuries, go to a robbery with a
(04:01):
gun, handle a school bus crashand then help somebody whose
battery died in a parking lot.
So you got a lot of differenttypes of work and I enjoy I
really thought that that wouldbe something that I would enjoy.
You know the diversity of thework every day, not being kind
of doing one thing.
I had great experience in thetraining academy.
We have a live-in trainingacademy, as do most of the state
police, very physicallydemanding, and I enjoyed that
(04:24):
military aspect of the training.
I knew immediately I had a goodfit.
And then I had a great career.
I went to Troop 6, which is oneof the busiest troops in the
state.
I ended up starting andfinishing my command at Troop 6
as the commander.
So for me it really was astorybook career.
I loved it there.
I had great connections, greatco-workers and colleagues.
Steve Morreale (04:44):
Troop 6, as I was looking, is right there in
Wilmington, right.
So it's in a busy city withsuburbs.
I'm sure that attach to it.
So let's talk about how youended up, why you bothered being
promoted, why you felt the needto keep going for your
education.
What drew you to promotion?
Jennifer Griffin (05:02):
I think for me it was.
I had, you know, as all policeofficers, you probably have a
mix of supervisors that inspireyou and that you show up for
work every day because they'reyour leader and they would do
anything for you and you woulddo anything for them.
And then I had kind of theother end of the spectrum where
I had supervisors who you didn'tfeel cared for them and I
thought I want to be part ofleadership that mentors people
(05:25):
and brings people along andmakes a difference, and so for
me it was really taking that.
You know, I also feel youshouldn't complain about
something if you don't want tobe a part of the solution.
So for me I knew that gettingpromoted, mentoring other people
and continuing my own personalgrowth was important.
The PhD kind of just happened alittle bit.
I was three years into mycareer, starting to try to
(05:46):
figure out what I wanted to dowith the rest of my life, maybe
a little bit closer to two, andI went back and got my master's
and thoroughly enjoyed that.
I love the classes.
I really dug.
Oh, this is such a struggle,the, you know, the undergrad
life, and I remember that.
But then when I got to mymaster's.
I really hit the ground.
I just really enjoyed immersingmyself in learning and trying
(06:12):
out different theories,especially within policing and
human development.
And then I just continued atthe University of Delaware to
work on my doctorate.
Steve Morreale (06:19):
Why?
What's the benefit that youfind having finished that
doctorate?
It's an awful lot of work,especially while you're working.
What did you see the benefit?
Jennifer Griffin (06:28):
I think it was both for me, a little bit of
intrinsic and extrinsic as well.
Internally, I was searching formore.
I was searching for better waysto do things, more
understanding, and I thoughtthat continuing on with my
education, especially atUniversity of Delaware it's an
R1 institution especiallyembedded in the area that I was
(06:49):
living and working, and it justmade sense there seemed like
there was no other option,honestly for me is I had to
continue on.
And then, extrinsically, Ithought about okay, if I
continue on, there are very fewpeople within policing that have
a PhD, especially from an R1.
And this might open upopportunities.
I always loved instructing andtraining too, and so I thought
(07:10):
you know what, once I get this,I could take my skills and start
teaching at the collegiatelevel, you know, as an adjunct.
So you know, kind of was partof my plan and I was always
looking five, 10, 15 years downthe road.
I wanted to have multiple, likeoption B, c and D, and so this
played into when I grew up.
This could be another option fora career that I would want to
do.
Steve Morreale (07:29):
So we're talking to Jennifer Griffin.
She is the chief of TempleUniversity Department of Public
Safety in Philadelphia.
She is a PhD, as you just heard, and one of the things you just
said, Jennifer, strikes me andthat is what drives us what's
the benefit of earning adoctorate?
Jennifer Griffin (07:58):
And how does your thinking begin to morph and
grow?
Tell me about that.
And then it really changed me,because the world just got so
much bigger for me.
I grew up in a very small ruraltown in Pennsylvania and I
didn't have the wide, openperspective, and then I became a
state trooper and I had a greatexperience, but I just knew
there was more out there and so,by getting my education, I
(08:19):
started to get involved with theIACP and reading what PERF was
putting out and just looking atthese other peer-reviewed
journals on policing by peoplewho had never policed which is
always a unique thing, rightWriting about theory but have
never worked in the field or hadto deal with somebody and
deescalate a situation at threein the morning when people have
had 20 years of domestics andyou're called and you have like
(08:40):
15 to 30 minutes to solve theirlife problems with these skills
you have in your toolbox, and soI think it just really gave me
a lot of confidence too.
And as a woman in policing,there's still a lot of the 30 by
30, we're trying to get 30% ofour women in law enforcement by
2030.
Steve Morreale (08:56):
What a big mistake, jennifer.
What a big mistake.
I'm teasing, I'm teasing.
I'm fully supportive of that.
I was about to say the 30 by 30.
So certainly you are activelyinvolved in that Fair.
Jennifer Griffin (09:06):
Well, we haven't made the commitment for
our department yet, but we aredefinitely engaged in the
conversations and I just had aconversation with a young lady
yesterday.
She's actually a police officerin Pennsylvania and we were
talking about that and howimportant it is, as a female
leader, to represent, to showthat this is a position that we
can obtain.
It's not easy.
I will share that this has notbeen an easy path and it is
(09:29):
surely not for people who don'thave a strong spine and thick
skin.
Steve Morreale (09:33):
Well, that's interesting, let's focus on that
.
I have to imagine what year didyou start in policing?
Jennifer Griffin (09:38):
99.
Steve Morreale (09:38):
Okay, so I will relate to you that in 1978, I
came out of the army and therewas a move to allow police
officers to be women, who wereno longer matrons.
And I remember, actually, whenI was in MP school in 75, it was
the first year that we wereallowing the military not Steve
Morreale, but the military wasallowing women to be military
(10:01):
police officers.
And there were five and not allof them made it.
And so I watched I'm the fatherof three daughters, but I
watched, when I came back, myhometown hire 20 women because
there was money from the fedsand that will make things happen
.
What I watched with disdain andI was horrified that I was
driving by the police stationand in front of the police
(10:23):
station were men and women,police officers and wives and
family members holding signssaying no women in my husband's
cruiser.
So if you can imagine, I knowyou and what I want to say is
that we're far down the roadwith allowing women in policing,
but it doesn't mean you haven'thad struggles along the way,
(10:43):
and so I'd love you to chatabout that.
In other words, what did thosestruggles do for you to help you
get to where you are today?
Jennifer Griffin (10:51):
Sure.
Well, first, thank you for yourservice.
I'm fortunate that I grew up ina military family numerous
uncles, grandparents, my fatherso a huge amount of respect for
people who dedicate their livesto service For me.
I think that it reallysolidified my resolve in doing
this job.
I definitely my parents and mysiblings would say, and my
husband would say, like mypersonality is definitely, if
(11:13):
you tell me I can't do something, I will definitely do it and
I'm going to outdo everybodyelse.
That's kind of the approach,but I think for me I was.
I knew the struggles.
Like I said, my father was apolice officer.
I spent a lot of time with hiscolleagues, several of them
women, and they all had.
There was something about allof them that I was drawn to and
that was their just absoluteresilience and their
(11:35):
unforgivable nature for juststanding up for themselves and
others.
I watched numerous women thatmy dad worked with and I looked
at them and the amount ofrespect he was also their
trainer.
He was a field training coach,he was a firearms instructor for
the whole department and thelevel of respect that he had for
them and that he demanded ofhis colleagues.
I saw that with the DelawareState Police.
(11:56):
It was definitely extremelychallenging, even within
policing.
If you look at state police,the percentages of women are
much smaller, mainly because ofthe demand, the physical fitness
demands, and but I love thatthere's equal pay for equal work
.
I had so many mentors In fact,the majority of my mentors with
the state police were all men.
They saw the potential in meand they spent time and effort,
(12:18):
and so I.
Although it's been verychallenging and there are things
that we are continuing to workon, we have come a long way.
Steve Morreale (12:29):
You know what went through my mind?
An old adage.
It was an old, I think it was acigarette commercial.
You've come a long way, baby.
I'm not advocating the smokingside of it, but certainly I
think that that has happened.
I get the opportunity to speakto so many women that have made
their mark in policing and Ithink it's so important, and
acceptance is very, veryimportant in my mind, and I
(12:51):
think you bring a differentperspective, a different
mentality, certainly a differentempathy in some cases.
But we as men have to acceptthat we are equals and I need
you to back me up.
I really don't care.
It was no different when I wasin the military or even policing
or with DEA.
It really doesn't matter whatcolor, what affiliation you are,
what religion you are.
We're all on the same team andI think that's the important
thing that you go to push.
So we're talking to JenniferGriffin and she is the chief at
(13:13):
Temple and to me.
You are a pracademic and one ofthe things you said a little bit
ago was that you read things.
Leaders are readers, right?
If we don't read, I think we'recrazy and I'm curious to know
what you're reading.
But you also said something afew moments ago, and that was
that you read things that arewritten by people who know the
book but have never experiencedit.
I think that is a greatdifferentiation between someone
(13:34):
like you and someone like mewho've done it.
Look, I think I have to readilyadmit, and you too, we don't
know it all.
Far from it, far from it.
And in a lot of ways, a leaderasks questions and is curious
and allows others to help frametheir own views, not pretending
that they're a know-it-all, butlet's talk about that when you
(13:55):
were with the state police andyou were working with an R1
school in your education.
You are at the same R1.
Now how important is it for theright person who is a
researcher, to embed themselvesor to get involved with policing
?
It's got to be the right person.
Jennifer Griffin (14:13):
Tell me your experience that way.
It definitely has to be theright person with the right
mindset and it has to be theright agency.
I'll be honest with youPolicing, just in general, is a
very Insular.
Yeah, that was general is avery insular.
Yeah, that was the word I wassearching for.
But yeah, I mean, there's justnot always so accepting of
outside.
I think we're definitely betterthan we were a decade ago, but
(14:33):
still there's definitely in someplaces there's still a
resistance to having outsiderscome in and evaluate, tell
people how they should be doingthings, and I think one of the
things that drew me to my PhDwas an internal interest in, you
know, in my research, and whatI talk about and I'm still I
work with the IACP and DOJ as asubject matter expert is on, you
know, stress, burnout,resiliency.
(14:54):
Are there differentdemographics in law enforcement
that made people more resilientor less capable of handling the
stressors?
And then how do we deal withthat?
How do we make police officersmore resilient?
And so I think for me,continuing to learn, and
especially from people who aredoing research right, because
they're looking at it from adifferent perspective and
sometimes they can really standback.
(15:15):
It's hard when you're immersedin the challenges or the
day-to-day to sometimes havethat 25,000 foot view and when
you bring researchers in.
We had an assessment.
When I first got here we werein the midst of an assessment by
Commissioner Ramsey, retiredfrom the Philadelphia Police
Department, 21CP.
I was thrilled at that.
I took the job knowing theywere under an assessment and
(15:37):
some of my colleagues are like,why would you do that?
You're going into anorganization.
I mean, we weren't under aconsent decree by any means, but
you're under an evaluation andassessment.
You've had some challengingevents.
You know this surely is not theeasy retirement job that most
people who are looking to retirewould take.
For me I said this is theperfect situation for me.
I'm looking for a challenge, check.
(15:59):
I got it.
I was looking to merge my loveof higher education and policing
and I was looking for adepartment and an organization
at the university that wasprogressive.
They were interested inevolving and enhancing their
public safety and policing comeup to 21st century best
practices in every area.
So for me this was the perfectway to merge research, theory,
(16:23):
academia and law enforcement.
Steve Morreale (16:25):
So what do you think about evidence-based
policing and the move in thatdirection?
Jennifer Griffin (16:30):
We're a little bit behind.
I think we're a little bitbehind in our application of
evidence-based research.
Steve Morreale (16:35):
But you're open to it?
Oh gosh, yeah, I mean I talkedto.
I'm Jerry Radcliffe.
I was just going to say that.
Jennifer Griffin (16:43):
I met Jerry years ago because the Delaware
State Police was a veryprogressive data driven I mean
we were doing strategic policingand looking at hotspot policing
and so many different thingsusing data.
And I reached out to Jerry whenI was in the process and I said
, Jerry, we met this many yearsago.
I have your book, I'm thinkingabout coming to Temple and he's
(17:03):
been here and we spoke for atleast an hour and 15 minutes and
I remember because he wasoverseas at the time- he always
is.
He's always on the road, I knowI tell him all the time he has
the best life.
Steve Morreale (17:14):
He does.
Jennifer Griffin (17:15):
He's on sabbatical right now he's coming
back, but yes, he, he does?
Steve Morreale (17:17):
He's on sabbatical right now.
Jennifer Griffin (17:17):
He's coming back but, yes, he spent so much
time and talked to me about hisresearch and we use his research
on foot patrols.
He came to a supervisor'smeeting for me and talked about
his research and not only theimpact on the community but the
impact on the officers forconnecting with the community
while they're on foot patrolright, like explaining the why
is so important on gettingbuy-in.
(17:38):
So, yeah, so I'm definitely abeliever.
We have to use more of it.
We have to bring people intothe organization to evaluate
what we're doing.
21CP was amazing for startingthat conversation for us, but it
just has to continue.
Policing is evolving,especially at higher ed.
Steve Morreale (17:53):
So Jennifer Griffin is retired from the
Delaware State Police and is nowthe chief at Temple University
the Department of Public Safety.
As you look back on whereyou've been, where you are and
where you're going, talk aboutyour leadership lessons, Talk
about the people you saw aroundyou.
At the very beginning, you toldme that you worked for some
(18:16):
great supervisors and somemarginal supervisors, and if
we're open-minded enough, welearn from both what to do and
what not to do, what to emulateand what to avoid.
What are some of the things asyou stepped into the ranks that
you maybe made a mistake, butthey were valuable lesson.
Can you think of a situation ortwo?
Jennifer Griffin (18:35):
Yeah, I mean, I think and I'll just go back to
I think sometimes our greateststrength is also our greatest
weakness, and I know for me,like I'm a very and I again I've
had really good leaders,mentors and people who have been
very honest with me.
I'm always very open forfeedback, so I'm a coach and
people have told me you're verycoachable and I said, well, I'm
always because I'm not afinished product.
(18:57):
I'm constantly learning andgrowing.
Steve Morreale (18:59):
I can tell from here, looking at you, you're far
from finished.
I think that's a wonderfulmindset.
Go ahead.
Jennifer Griffin (19:06):
So I think for me it was looking at where I
was, where I want to go.
I was just really fortunate tomake mistakes in safe
environments and I think thebiggest thing that I always and
I continue to struggle with thisis my expectations and the pace
that I always and I continue tostruggle with this is my
expectations, and the pace thatI want to move is different than
sometimes the people that workaround me or for me.
(19:26):
And so it does it Well.
It frustrates me and I know itfrustrates them, because you
know I expect that we will getthings done at a certain pace
and that will be.
You know, I came into anorganization and there were so
many things that the officers,the dispatchers, our security
officers and our staff told melike needed change.
There was a reason that theycreated the position that I came
into.
It had never existed before avice president position and it
(19:49):
was posted for a civilian.
It wasn't posted for a swornofficer, and when I interviewed
for it, I the final interviewwith my boss, ken Kaiser at the
university I said I would liketo be sworn.
Is that going to be an issue?
And he was like you know, isthat important to you?
And I said yes, it's importantto me because I want to wear the
uniform.
I think it sets the tone.
I want to stand side by sidewith the officers, our police
(20:11):
officers, when we're dealingwith any issue.
And he said fine.
But I think the thing that Iconstantly learn and have to
relearn is setting expectations,making sure that I'm
communicating more than I thinkis necessary.
I have to remind myself too,like you've had, the value of a
(20:32):
master's and a PhD and a 25 yearcareer in a very high level
police organization, and you'recoming into a university
environment in a city that hashad a different experience, and
so for me it's really, you know,I'm reading.
Any one time I read like fiveor six books.
I've got audio books and listento podcasts.
I'm constantly trying to learnhow to lead the people where
they are that I'm so fortunateto be charged to take care of.
Steve Morreale (20:54):
Tell me, about the transition.
I came from 35 years in lawenforcement and walked into an
academic department and shortlythereafter I ended up leading
that department and I had tomodify both my expectations and
even my behavior, my approach.
Many people would say to me andthey know this is not about me
some would say take the cop hatoff, steve.
(21:16):
Most would say I can't believethat you're the most reasonable
one at the table.
So you had both sides, becauseI was trying not to be stern by
any means, trying to beinvolving others and getting
other people engaged and askingfor their input, and I want to
kind of talk about that.
How did you transition?
How have you found thedifference between the culture
(21:36):
at a university even though youare in a police?
role as opposed to a publicsafety organization, meaning a
state police organization.
Jennifer Griffin (21:45):
I tell my friends I said it's like being
dropped on the moon.
Policing is very similar right,we handle calls for service, we
help people, we were problemsolvers.
But working in this environmentis different in that the
universities are just morecollaborative, and somebody
recently told me I said I justcan't put my finger on what it
(22:07):
is at the university, within thestate police, I was very
fortunate I had two differentoperation commands that I led.
I ran our internal affairs.
I was the commander, thedirector of training, which
oversaw the firearms unit, allof training and the canine unit,
and I was fortunate that I gotto do what I needed to do every
day.
I made decisions, made ithappen and moved on, and I get
to do that still.
(22:27):
But at the university there's alot more discussion about
things.
Steve Morreale (22:31):
Oh my goodness, does it slow down, don't you?
Walk into meetings sometimeswhere commiserating here about
what goes on on campus Not thatit's bad, but let's think about
it, let's get some more feedback.
I'm not sure that we have tocome up with an answer right now
and we're coming from anorganization.
We've got to deal with thistomorrow or next week.
The sense of urgency on campusis completely different.
(22:51):
Fair statement yes.
Jennifer Griffin (22:52):
Oh my God.
I mean, I talked to somebodyrecently and they phrased it
perfectly.
They said at the universitieswe like to admire the problem.
Steve Morreale (23:01):
I love it.
Jennifer Griffin (23:02):
Talk about it, we like to discuss it, we like
to get and I said, you know, insome aspects I really like it.
There's a time and a place forthat, but then there's also like
a lot of opportunities.
The difference between policingis a lot of the things we deal
with.
We take the information we have, we have to make decisions and
we have, we have to makedecisions and we have to move
forward right, because the nextcrisis is just around the corner
and if you don't make decisionson things, you know things back
(23:23):
up and you don't get thingsaccomplished.
So for me, I'm reading a lot ofthings right now about being
laser focused, how to continueto prioritize the strategies and
the different initiatives thatwe want to do while managing the
day-to-day.
And part of that, when I came in, was looking and working with
21CP and doing my own assessment.
My first 90 days I said I'mgoing to do a listen and learn
(23:47):
and I went out and foot patrol.
I went in the cars, I sat downwith supervisors and officers,
dispatchers and security, andthen I met with university
leaders to really hear like,where are we at, what are the
challenges, what are thecomplaints, and then where do we
need to go and then build itand restructure the whole
department.
And then we're really, at thispoint just short of two years,
hitting the ground running withwhat I call the five pillars of
the way I organize everythingthat we're doing, and it's
(24:08):
personnel, equipment, technology, training and professional
development strategy, and thencommunication and collaboration,
and we've been able to makeover a hundred different changes
in those five pillars withinthe first year and a half, not
by yourself, correct?
Steve Morreale (24:23):
Not by yourself.
Oh gosh, no, no, no.
Jennifer Griffin (24:25):
This is not.
There was a great group ofpeople.
I mean, the reason I took thisjob is because I came up here
and did my own surveillance andbefore I applied and I met
officers and I walked intobuildings and I met people,
talked to students and I sawsuch great potential.
I'm like this place.
First of all, it's a beautifulcampus.
(24:45):
Our students wereoverwhelmingly helpful.
I mean, I've been on a lot, alot of college campuses and when
I met kids from Temple, I meanhow do you get here, how do you
ride the train, how do you dothat?
I mean the kids were sooverwhelmingly helpful and
approachable.
Yeah, isn't that nice.
Steve Morreale (24:56):
So we're talking to Jennifer Griffin she is Dr
Jennifer Griffin down at TempleUniversity, and a few things
that come to mind are about thejob of a leader and you've
talked a little bit about yourleadership approach, and I guess
, before I start, that there'sone thing I failed to do, and
that was to ask you to identifyand help the listener understand
(25:17):
just how big the campus is andhow big the organization is.
Jennifer Griffin (25:21):
Sure.
So Temple University sits inNorth Philadelphia, in the city,
and we have about a one milesquare main campus and we have
approximately 30,000 students,combination of undergraduate and
graduate, about nine to 10,000faculty staff.
We also have multiple campusesthroughout the city our health
sciences campus, where TempleUniversity Hospital is, and then
(25:41):
we have the Ambler campus, Harrisburg Center, city.
We have international campuses,but for the most part we
leverage our resources for threeof the campuses to have
students at, and so ourorganization varies.
I mean, one of the biggestchallenges in law enforcement
right now is retentionrecruitment, especially for law
enforcement officers, really forany care workers right now
(26:03):
teachers, nurses, policeofficers.
Steve Morreale (26:06):
So and you've got the medical center that
you're responsible to for twoyes, ok.
Jennifer Griffin (26:09):
Health sciences yes.
Steve Morreale (26:10):
I see.
So let's talk about this ideaof leadership.
As I intimated a little bit ago, seems to me that a leader has
to deal with.
They have to manage and lead.
At the same time, they have todevelop others.
One of the things that strikesme is the responsibility to keep
your head on a swivel.
I liken it to either being aradar you better turn back
because you're going to miss itright A radar screen or a
(26:33):
sprinkler, and that, as a leader, you're going to be distracted.
But where do you find thewherewithal after that crisis is
over to get back on track?
Talk about that.
I'm sure you've found yourselfin many, many situations where
you become distracted.
Yet you know what I like thatwhat you said is the leader
having a forward thinking orforward moving mindset.
(26:54):
So just talk a little bit aboutthat from the Jennifer
perspective.
Jennifer Griffin (26:57):
The most important thing is the people
right.
It's the people that you havearound you and their ability to
bring information to you, todistill it down and then to
empower people to move forwardon initiatives that we want to
work on.
So I think for me, coming intothe organization, part of the
reorganization is creatingdifferent units.
We had people doing fivedifferent jobs.
I was shocked at the number ofjobs my executive assistant was
(27:21):
doing.
That really were not executiveassistant responsibilities, and
so it was really creating peopleand then developing them.
So I think, for me, being laserfocused, definitely different
than it was two years ago when Icame with the structure that we
had.
And now we've built up thefoundation and we're supporting
the units that were here andthat are existing.
But it's really something that Ispend every morning and evening
(27:43):
doing is looking at what's mycalendar look like tomorrow.
What are the three things Iwant to accomplish, starting the
morning before I leave my house, looking at the calendar again.
What are the three things Ineed to accomplish today?
What are the meetings I have?
You know, what are the agendas?
Have I already set meetingagendas?
How are we moving through this?
Setting deadlines for people Igive a responsibility or I give
a task and then I also givewe're going to meet in a week
(28:05):
and this is the expectation thatit'll be done, and if you need
anything you come back to me andI'll help you.
So it's also providing support,like what information do you
need, what support do you need?
And sometimes it's me making aphone call to another unit here
at the university and say, hey,we need support with this, or me
pushing a project along alittle bit.
So for me it's really somethingas a leader you have to spend
(28:25):
time at or you get nothingaccomplished, because everybody
is buying for your time andeverybody is buying for your
attention.
And if you don't have strategy,if you don't have a specific,
intentional way you are going toattack problems, you get bogged
down in the day-to-day.
Steve Morreale (28:40):
I would say that that's more of a manager than a
leader, and so that becomesimportant as reflection,
important in your life.
It sounds like that's exactlywhat you're doing morning and
evening.
Jennifer Griffin (28:48):
Yes, and that's I would say that's part
of my resiliency practice aswell is, you know, not every day
goes well.
I think that saying issometimes you're the fly,
sometimes you're the windshield.
A lot of days I go home and I'mlike I'm not sure which one I
was, but it's what did weaccomplish today?
What can I be grateful for?
And before I go to bed, Ialways list what are the three
things that I'm grateful fortoday and when I wake up in the
morning, what are the threethings I'm looking forward to.
(29:09):
And I think that sets the tonefor your mentality and your
resilience and getting throughchallenges.
Trying to instill that in thepeople that I work with.
It's easy to get bogged down inthe negative.
Our brains are drawn towardssurviving and negative and so
it's really trying to create anenvironment where people yeah,
there's a lot of challenges Imean, that's the nature of
policing Nobody calls and sayshey, I'm having an awesome day,
(29:30):
I don't need your help.
People call when they are incrisis, when they can't solve
their own life issues, when theworst thing in their lives have
happened to them and we need tobe at our best and help them.
So I think that you know.
For me, you know, leading isalso making sure that I'm taking
care of my own mental healthand I'm making sure that the
people around me are doing thatas well, cause you can't pour
from an empty vessel, andpolicing has been really
(29:53):
challenged the last couple ofyears.
Steve Morreale (29:54):
Oh, that's an understatement.
I read that you had some handin developing a wellness app.
I guess it was with DelawareState Police.
Did I read that correctly?
Jennifer Griffin (30:04):
So I was at the time.
It was Colonel NathanielMcQueen.
He's now the superintendent forHomeland Security and he I went
to him and I said I think weneed a wellness unit and this is
what I would like to do, and Icame up with a proposal and he
was okay, do it?
So fortunate that I hadsomebody who saw the potential
and created SOPs and we broughta team together and we started
looking.
(30:24):
We did surveys and then wepartnered with a group that had
a wellness app and we brought itto the state police.
We developed resiliency trainers.
We were doing resiliencytrainers for all new police
officers.
I used to do yoga with the newrecruits.
We did supervisors trainingwith resiliency, and so I found
that very beneficial.
The officers are civilians aswell found it very beneficial,
(30:46):
and so we're currently workingon developing a wellness unit
here.
And what would that look likewith training?
We have a monthly newsletterthat we put out and one of the
notes in there is a wellnesscorner.
So it's really about evolvingto the department's needs.
But we're going to be doing alot of the same things here, as
well as additional things,because the university has more
resources than we had back withthe Delaware State Police for
(31:08):
mental health and wellness andnutritional counseling and
financial counseling, thingslike that.
Steve Morreale (31:12):
Chief Griffin, take me into a meeting with you,
not to disparage yourpredecessor, but what are the
changes that you made in settingexpectations in your meetings
and getting feedback and notexpecting silence, not expecting
nodding and bland agreementwith you?
Tell me how you drew people inso that you could utilize their
(31:34):
intellect and their curiosityand add value.
Jennifer Griffin (31:37):
I think the first one was just acknowledging
I don't know working within auniversity environment.
I need all of you to share withme your two, three, 20, 50
years as a police officer atTemple, and so really be an
opening to listening.
I mean, we, as soon as I gothere and we started monthly
supervisors meetings and thatwas really an opportunity for
(31:58):
them to come in here.
What are you seeing?
What are you hearing?
How does it feel out there?
How can we help you?
What are the things, what arethe obstacles that you're facing
, what are the challenges?
And then talking through thoseand as well as we send out
newsletters, emails, departmentwide emails to try to increase
that communication, we started alot of different things with
(32:19):
student organizations.
I have a student safetyadvisory committee and that's
really an opportunity for me tosit down in my command staff, to
sit down with students fromvery diverse backgrounds
throughout the universitystudent government and hear
their perspectives.
And because of those meetings wemade huge changes to our social
media, to how we communicatewith students, the parents, the
(32:39):
faculty, how we engage with ourcommunity in what they needed
and how they needed to hear fromus, and so for me, it's
constantly building that timeinto my calendar.
Like I said, everybody wantsyour time and it's really
sometimes a challenge, butbuilding that time into my
schedule to really listen topeople and hear the challenges.
I would say we are not where Iwould like us to be, and I think
(33:01):
it's just.
I had a friend who's a chiefand he said it took him six
years to get the structure setup and to build those
relationships.
And so for me I just remindmyself we're not where we wanna
be and we have to do it together.
We're in this together and weneed to move together.
Steve Morreale (33:17):
You're bringing so many things to mind.
I'm thinking about communitypolicing and how does that work
for you.
How do you bring that to theorganization?
How do you bring this to thecampus?
How did that outreach help youavoid something like a Columbia
or an NYU episode?
Curious about that.
And also, how does culture playinto this?
Jennifer Griffin (33:37):
What we saw after COVID really shut down.
Businesses shut down,universities shut down.
There was a lot less interactionwith people in general and then
, as COVID kind of waned off andpeople got back to this new
normal, the engagement started,but people were still hesitant.
And I think that that's one ofthe things with police officers
is, the more you I always felt,the more I engaged with the
(33:58):
community, the more rewardingthe job became, because you can
really get bogged down with thechallenges that people are
facing and the emotional laborthat you take on when every
complaint you go to somebody isin crisis, and also creating
opportunities for the communityto see a police officer, not
when they call 9-1-1, you knowthat they're actually people we
enjoy engaging with you.
So I think it's really engagingwith the community, making sure
(34:21):
that we're working with them.
We just recently worked withone of the high schools and
that's getting all of ourorganization, not just police
officers but our dispatchers andour security officers engaged
in the community to have thatrelationship.
But we had a local high schoolwithin the patrol zone that we
rebuilt their greenhouse withthem and we had the student
athletes from the rowing teamcome and do that as well and as
(34:42):
a result of that and that andother connections, as well as
the students from the community,we have 40 young adults who
just are graduating tomorrowfrom the high school are coming
to Temple.
University it was a draw, and sothe relationships that are so,
the relationships that areengagement, unit and we are
forging with public safety inthese schools or the community.
(35:03):
These are long-termrelationships.
I mean, our students may behere.
I jokingly tell them, you mightbe here four, five, maybe six
years if your parents willcontinue to pay for it.
But we're the consistent, thecommunity, the people.
There are people in thiscommunity who've lived in that
same brownstone or that same rowhouse for 40, 50, 60 years and
so we want to leave it betterthan it was when we got here,
(35:25):
and so I think that's the thingthat I try to remind.
We move forward with communitypolicing and just like our foot
patrols you know mandatory footpatrols for all the police
officers in cars, 90 minutes oftheir 12 hour shifts.
You got to get out of the car.
You got to walk and do some yeah, you got to do some business
place checks.
I have one scheduled later ontoday with one of the officers.
We're going to get out and dosome foot patrol.
(35:47):
But making those connections isreally good for the community
but it's really good for ourofficers too.
Steve Morreale (35:52):
Yeah, it's mutually beneficial, as you say,
because you get to see peoplenot at their worst time, but
you're able to show the humanityof policing, which I think is
important.
We're, but you're able to showthe humanity of policing, which
I think is important.
We are all human beings andthere's nothing really special
about us except for the trainingand the care.
I think that very much helps.
When you I use the term pressthe flesh, that minimizes it.
It's about knowing the peopleand building relationships for
(36:15):
the long term and makingyourself approachable, and I
think that's to benefit.
We need more friends.
And it strikes me too, asyou're talking here, you are a
police organization on a campusand come May, the campus
dwindles right.
Everybody goes home, graduationis done and you're there during
that period of time where, yeah, there's still people who come
(36:36):
on for summer programs or forsummer school, but you're the
constant faculty leave.
Administration stays but thefaculty leave, and I think
that's important.
We're talking again to JenniferGriffin and she is the chief at
Temple University.
She is a PhD herself.
One of the things I'd like toask you, jennifer, is what are
the benefits of not being myopicby reaching out, by belonging
(37:00):
to chiefs associations?
By reaching out, by belongingto chiefs associations, both
campus and either local or state, what are the benefits of IACP?
How have you grown?
How have you come to go andlisten?
And I hope to see you in Bostonbecause IACP.
I'm a member since 88 and IACPcomes to Boston.
What are the benefits of thoseprofessional associations?
Jennifer Griffin (37:20):
Well, it's incredible.
I mean it's incredible for anew police officer just being
involved with thoseorganizations to learn how other
agencies we're all experiencingmany similar things nationwide
right Universities in Boston andNew York, philly, dealing with
a lot of the same issues thatthey are on the West Coast and
how we network in thoseorganizations the IACP.
(37:42):
I mean I've been really blessedthat I've been a part of their
belong to different groupswithin IACP and I'm a subject
matter expert.
I do stuff with their Crytekteam and the Department of
Justice and that gives me moreinsight into what is going on at
other agencies.
And then when we have somethinggoing on here, I have a network
of people to reach out to andsay, hey, we're dealing with
(38:03):
this.
I see you've already dealt withit.
Can you share with me yourpolicy?
What were the challenges?
What were the obstacles?
We can shorten the amount oftime that we have to spin our
wheels when you have thosenetworks and those connections,
and especially for IACP, I meanthe networks are amazing.
I went through the FBI NationalAcademy.
Steve Morreale (38:21):
What was your class number?
Jennifer Griffin (38:22):
268.
Okay, just so that networkalone.
You know I'm on the trainingcommittee for the FBI National
Academy.
I've gone to Quantico and hadthe opportunity to present and
teach down there and just theamount of networking and the
information sharing people inthose groups nobody is hoarding
what they're doing or hiding it.
I mean, I'm on a lot of emailchains and we're sharing
(38:43):
policies and we're especiallythis last year, right We've the
last semester has reallypresented some unique challenges
for universities and having theopportunity to share and
leverage that information isinvaluable.
Steve Morreale (38:55):
Yeah, especially on campus.
And the big issue is right todemonstrate and freedom of
expression, and our universityjust put out a new policy that I
just read the other day.
How about Temple and its othercampuses?
Jennifer Griffin (39:06):
I think I was fortunate.
I came into the university andat the time it was Commissioner
Outlaw.
I had been acquainted with heroutside before I came to this
job.
And now you have CommissionerKevin Bethel, who I'm good
friends with.
I met him early on when I washere.
He was a great resource I mean,he's a good friend,
commissioner Ramsey, so Iimmediately was able to forge
(39:28):
relationships and their uppercommand.
I would say that we probablyspeak about something not always
like issues or crisis, but justtouching base on different
things at least once a week.
So great relationship withPhilly and people always ask me
that.
I think they're always thinkingthat you know, like we're a
university and they treat usbadly, you know, or something,
and couldn't be more opposite weare.
So I just saw the commissionerand his command staff at an
(39:50):
event last week and it's alwaysmutual respect and support.
How can we work together?
What resources can we leverage?
I mean we are all working tobuild up the number of police
officers within the city, withinall the organizations, so we
have to work smarter and I thinkthat's created a lot of
opportunities to collaborate.
Steve Morreale (40:05):
I'm going to go back to something before we
begin to wind down your time onthe Delaware State Police.
There's always this aura aboutthe state police and statewide
jurisdiction and sometimescertain people looking down on
local police as opposed to statepolice, and it was always my
belief is badge is a badge is abadge.
(40:26):
We've got to get along.
How did you drive thatexpectation of mutual trust and
mutual respect when you were inposition of authority, of
leadership with Delaware StatePolice?
Jennifer Griffin (40:37):
I think just the way that the Delaware State
Police trains it was prettyformative because the Delaware
State Police I think just theway that the Delaware State
Police trains.
It was pretty formative becausethe Delaware State Police was
at the time there was only threepolice academies in the state,
so for the 50 plus agencies theDelaware State Police trained
the majority of law enforcementofficers in the state at our
training academy.
So I went through a trainingacademy with 70 people and it
(40:59):
was locals.
Troopers.
We wore the same recruituniform, we slept in the same
hard beds, we did the same PT,we had the same commandants
screaming at you.
I know, I know, I know the samepeanut butter and jelly for
lunch.
I mean we, it was the commonstruggle and we forged
relationships.
So I think the universe, youknow, like the way that Delaware
(41:20):
state police operated, the waywe train, the way we co-train
with agencies, I mean we were, Ithink, one of the first in the
nation went to alert for activeshooter training, requiring all
police officers train on thesame platform, and the Delaware
State Police was one of the leadagencies that trained all
police in the state.
We share resources, we supportour law.
I never had the feeling likethat.
We were looking down on them.
(41:41):
Maybe they would have adifferent experience, but in
some places in the state theywere your only backup.
You might, especially in SussexCounty, you're a trooper down
there like your backups.
Another trooper might be 20plus minutes away and that local
officer was your lifeline.
And so people respected eachother and I really valued.
And then when I came here I getthe same feeling of respect
from the Philadelphia PoliceDepartment, their officers.
(42:03):
I mean I work a lot with someof the events we have.
I've seen no difference.
Steve Morreale (42:06):
Good, I'm glad to hear that, because that has
been something that has sort oflingered in certain places.
I went to New Hampshire PoliceAcademy and state police trained
in the same academy a stateacademy so I understand that and
it certainly changed the wholeperspective which I think is
(42:28):
very, very important.
Jennifer Griffin (42:28):
I think there's also a responsibility.
I think it was ingrained in usas troopers, Like you have a
responsibility because we didhave more officers and more
troopers.
We had different, diverse units, we had homicide aviation, we
had everything SWAT units.
It was a responsibility that wewould support our local
partners.
I mean we call them sisteragencies for a reason.
You know I had the president'sdetail and the vice president.
President Biden lived in mytroop area.
I oversaw his motorcade and hisresidence for several different
(42:49):
years and you can't do thatwithout good relationships and
partnerships, and that's thesame in Philadelphia.
You cannot keep communitiessafe without relationships and
partnerships.
Steve Morreale (42:58):
I mean, I believe that there's not enough
of us in the first place, and sofor us to have infighting makes
no sense whatsoever.
So we're winding down withJennifer Griffin and tell me
what's on your list of thingsthat you would like to
accomplish in the next littlebit that we have with a couple
(43:18):
of key positions.
Jennifer Griffin (43:19):
Accreditation is one of them.
You know, I think it's reallyimportant that agencies are
accredited.
It's important for ourorganization, for the university
.
It sets the standard.
Steve Morreale (43:28):
Yes, what accreditation will you seek?
CALEA and P LEAC, oh good, andIACLEA which is the oh, wow,
that's a lot.
Where are you going to
Jennifer Griffin (43:39):
In the lobby.
We're going to put all of thosein the lobby so that people can
see them.
But no, I mean once you achieveKaliya, the other ones are a
walkover, so it should be mucheasier.
But I think continuing to workto change culture here and
develop relationships I think isreally important, and those are
the things that I focus on.
How do we continue to changeculture and the belief system?
(44:01):
How do we create an environmentwhere people enjoy coming to
work in a country right now thatpeople are working from home
and hybrid and they have a lotof different opportunities?
And how do we get people tocome into public service?
How can we encourage youngpeople to do a life of service
and see that be purpose driven?
Steve Morreale (44:18):
How does Dr Griffin select things that she
wishes to read up on?
Where do you find some of thatmaterial?
What books, what feeder do youuse to get?
Is it IACP?
Where are you finding some ofyour research?
Jennifer Griffin (44:33):
articles.
So a couple of different places.
I would say, as somebody whojust enjoys books in general and
I, one of the draws of Templewas we have this amazing library
and I have great access towhatever I would want and I one
of the draws of Temple was wehave this amazing library and I
have great access to whatever Iwould want.
But I think for me it's whatissue am I dealing with right
now, professionally orpersonally?
And then I just like any goodscholar, I research who are the
(44:54):
experts in that field.
I read what they write, books,articles.
I also still do a lot of peerreview for different police
journals, police quarterlyinternational journal.
So I still do a lot of readingto build up my own knowledge.
And then you know, I use thecommon things like everybody
else.
I go on Amazon, I use BlinkistHeadway, tons of different apps,
(45:15):
audio books and I listen tobooks and I usually to cram more
in, I'll listen to them on like1.5 speed, no, so I can get.
Steve Morreale (45:24):
Is that why you speak so quickly?
No, I'm kidding, maybe yeah.
Jennifer Griffin (45:28):
And same thing for podcasts.
Usually when I have an issuethat I'm dealing with or I'm
trying to find a better option,you know, I just research it and
then I find the people that areexperts in that field.
I leverage the IACP and PERFand other places.
Steve Morreale (45:41):
National Police Foundation.
Jennifer Griffin (45:43):
National Police Foundation.
Steve Morreale (45:44):
That's good.
So does Jennifer Griffin.
Have you begun to takeadvantage of AI?
Jennifer Griffin (45:52):
So we're using a couple, both professionally
here at the university.
We are.
We're currently in the processof adding artificial
intelligence, gun detectiondevices, overlaying over.
We have almost 1, almost 1500cameras here on our campuses, so
we're overlaying some gundetection devices, license plate
readers.
But personally, yeah, I use Chat GPT and kind of look things
(46:12):
up.
I mean sometimes it's justtrying to research and get a
different perspective on things.
But I think AI is going tocontinue to.
It should be seen as a tool.
I remember years ago peoplewere like, oh every, all your
jobs, all these jobs in theUnited States are going to be
replaced by a robot whatever.
Steve Morreale (46:31):
No, it still needs human intervention.
I they're shocked that I wouldallow them to use it.
But if we don't allow them touse it, they're going to use it
anyway.
I mean, who are we fooling?
But it takes human intervention.
What I'll say is don't you justhand me something?
Cut and paste look at it andthen dig into it and see if it
works for us.
How about we modify it forTemple University or for
Worcester State University?
So I'm glad to hear that you'rewilling to be an early adopter
(46:52):
within reason.
Jennifer Griffin (46:52):
Oh yeah, and I , I still I'm an adjunct
professor, I still, you know.
So I think it's just anothertool.
We should use it as anothertool.
It's not going to be the magicbullet, it's not going to be
going to answer every questionfor us, but it can really help
and narrow down the informationsometimes.
And I think for students, aslong as they're using it
responsibly, they're notplagiarizing.
I always give them questions.
(47:13):
That has to have a humanelement.
Give me an example in your lifewhere you could have utilized
it.
So, as much as they want to useit, they definitely are going
to have to still use their braintoo.
I understand.
Steve Morreale (47:23):
And my last question, so as an adjunct,
you'll appreciate this.
I'm not attacking people, butsomebody just wrote something
and I said, hmm, this has thesound of AI, yes or no?
That's all I wrote yes or no,and if yes, why?
And why is this the first I'mhearing of it, and so then I
made them go back and writeagain, but I got their attention
, you understand.
(47:44):
So, if you had the chance, as anevolving leader in other words,
constantly evolving to improve.
Is there somebody in the pastthat has passed that you would
love to sit down and pick theirbrain?
That would help you become abetter leader, help you deal
with issues in a better way.
Jennifer Griffin (48:02):
I would say it has to be a leader.
I would say there's a coupledifferent people maybe that I
would reach out to.
I would say that definitelycontinue to read.
And this is somebody who'sstill alive, but you know the
Bill Brattons of the world.
I'm fortunate.
Chuck Ramsey is not onlysomebody who did an assessment
for us but has become a realfriend and mentor to me and
(48:23):
answers my phone calls when Icall and is still a good
supporter.
We're sitting on a panel lateron this month, so I'm fortunate.
I would say to people like Imiss my grandparents.
They were always verysupportive and I think sometimes
, as police leaders, we alsoneed support and just having
people that can provide moment,you know, a grounding foundation
for us, and that I think that'swhat I've very much benefited
(48:45):
from over the years with havinggreat mentors, and so those
would be the people I'd want.
Steve Morreale (48:48):
I think that's great, it's interesting.
I get the advantage of seeingyou on camera and I just saw a
little piece when you talkedabout your grandparents, a
little piece of emotion, whichis just amazing because you
understand, we're all human, andit just brought up such a nice
memory, I'm sure, for you, and Iappreciate you sharing it.
Well, we've been talking toJennifer Griffin.
She is Dr.
Jennifer Griffin, the Chief ofPolice and the Vice President at
(49:09):
Temple University, theDepartment of Public Safety, and
I have to tell you it's been apleasure to chat with you as a
parting opportunity for you tohave the last word.
What would you say to youngpeople about policing who have
seen the things on televisionthat paint us in such a negative
way?
What would you say to convincethem that this might be
something to consider?
Jennifer Griffin (49:30):
I would say I've done this job for 25 years
and it is constantly evolving.
It's one of the things I loveabout the job.
No day is the same as the last.
I'm proud to be a policeofficer here at Temple
University.
I'm proud of our policeofficers, our dispatchers, our
security officers, and if you'relooking for a job where you are
purpose driven, where you areinterested in making changes and
(49:51):
you're interested in being apart of a community and working
at both the micro and the macrolevel, like you want to really
get into it.
University policing is a greatopportunity.
I've done and I tell people Ilove my state police time.
I absolutely enjoyed driving upand down the interstate and
going to robberies and handlingall kinds of stuff.
At the university you get to doeverything from helping
(50:11):
students who are in mentalhealth crisis to dealing with
crime, to doing traffic, todoing foot patrol.
Business place just graduate.
We're in the midst of highschool graduations now and had a
week of commencement andgraduation ceremonies and that's
something I didn't get to do inmy previous job.
Steve Morreale (50:27):
I mean, I think it's really unique.
Those are fun times, aren'tthey?
They're hopeful times, aren'tthey?
Jennifer Griffin (50:30):
Yeah, it reminds you why we are here.
It really reminds you, like,the reason we are here to serve
this community, to serve theuniversity and to serve each
other.
Steve Morreale (50:39):
Well, thank you for your time, for your energy
and for your sharing.
You have some innovative ideasand I'm very, very appreciative
that you shared them with ourlisteners.
Thank you, Jennifer.
Jennifer Griffin (50:49):
Thank you for having me and I'll see you in
Boston.
See you in Boston.
Steve Morreale (50:52):
Well, that's it.
Another episode of T he CopDocPodcast is in the books.
Thanks for listening.
We'll be with you with moreepisodes.
If you have somebody in mindthat we should be talking to,
please don't be afraid to reachout.
All the best to you.
Stay safe.
Intro-Outro (51:08):
Thanks for listening to T he Cop Doc
Podcast with Dr.
Steve Morreale.
Steve is a retired lawenforcement practitioner and
manager, turned academic andscholar from Worcester State
University.
Please tune into T he Cop DocPodcast for regular episodes of
interviews with thought leadersin policing.
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