May 31, 2023 • 36 mins
Student privacy is a growing concern across K12 education. Although many digital tools and edtech providers have invested in student data privacy, many stakeholders are calling for more training, awareness, and cybersecurity in the classroom. How can we guarantee that students get the best possible experience leveraging edtech tools and that their data is secure and privacy safeguarded?
In this episode of the CoSN Podcast, we discuss student data privacy, increasing awareness, vetting procedures, and more. There is no doubt that schools have a responsibility to protect student data and maximize student data privacy. In order to do this, schools must implement proactive strategies and training to support staff and increase student safety.
Today’s guest is Kerry Gallagher
Kerry Gallagher, JD, is an innovative teacher, school administrator, lawyer, TEDx speaker, keynote speaker, education consultant, downhill skier, hiker, mom, and wife. She has over 20 years of experience as a professional educator. Kerry currently serves as Assistant Principal for Teaching and Learning and classroom teacher at St. John’s Preparatory School in Danvers, Massachusetts, and Director of Education at ConnectSafely, an internet safety non-profit in Palo Alto, California. Kerry is co-author of several ConnectSafely award-winning guidebooks for parents and teachers on topics that include social media, data privacy, education technology, copyright, and more. Accolades for her work include awards from the Family Online Safety Institute, St. Anselm College, MassCUE, SmartBrief, and Tech&Learning. She’s been recognized as a FutureReady Schools Instructional Coach, ASCD Emerging Leader, Adobe Education Leader, PBS LearningMedia Digital Innovator, and EdSurge Columnist. Her passions include digital wellness, innovative professional learning, and effective integration of curriculum, pedagogy, and technology. She is on social media @KerryHawk02.
This episode of The CoSN Podcast is supported by Clever
Engage further in the discussion on Twitter. Follow: @CoSN, @edCircuit, @Clever
The CoSN Podcast is produced in partnership with edCircuit. To learn more about CoSN, visit www.cosn.org, and to learn more about at edCircuit, visit www.edcircuit.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Welcome to the coast and podcast.
Produced in partnership with Ed circuit media, in organization
focused entirely on the K20 and tech industry and empowering.
The voices that can provide guidance and expertise in
facilitating, the appropriate usage of digital, technology in
education, Ed circuit Elevate, the voices of today's Innovative
(00:25):
thought, leaders and experts caution represents over 13
million students. It's in districts and
educational institutions, Nationwide and continues to grow
as a powerful and influential voice in K-12 education.
This high-profile series showcases industry, thought
leaders and Executives who provide timely Market insights
(00:47):
and critical guidance, on various educational technology,
strategies, hello, and welcome to the coast and podcast.
My name is Shawn Ryan and on behalf of kosan and today's
sponsor clever. We are excited to bring you a
conversation on digital safety with the focus on how you can
bring Educators students and families into the conversation.
(01:09):
Joining me today is Carrie Gallagher, welcome to the
podcast. Hey, Sean, thanks for having me
today. Carrie is the assistant
principal for teaching and learning at st.
John's Prep in Danvers Massachusetts.
She's also the education director for connect safely.
Dot-org prior to moving into Administration.
Carry served as a middle school teacher.
(01:30):
Teacher High School teacher and then digital learning specialist
for over 15 years, carries a tedx and keynote speaker, and
also shares her expertise by designing, professional learning
for school districts around the country.
Once again, welcome to the podcast carry.
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited for this conversation.
(01:50):
Wonderful, I would like to go ahead and start off the
discussion by asking you to Define student privacy in the
K-12 landscape. Yeah, sure.
You know I think we are In an era, especially post pandemic,
where our students and our teachers are just a custom to
day-to-day engaging with a variety of platforms that allow
them to create and consume information to communicate with
(02:15):
one another and to collaborate on, you know really inspiring
tasks that are engaging them with their learning, very
actively, as a result of that. Those of us who are working in
either it or teaching them. Learning Administration have an
added layer of responsibility that's perhaps even more evident
(02:36):
than it has been in the past to make sure that the information
that they are engaging with. And you know, the information
about themselves that they shareon these platforms is protected
because the students that we serve are under the age of 18 or
16 or 13, or 12, or even youngerthan that.
(02:57):
So I think we need to be carefulabout.
Out ensuring that both the students and the teachers who
are engaging together are aware of what student data is and what
information, they are giving of themselves to, you know, us as
(03:17):
the school administration to thecompanies that control the data
as part of those platforms. And then also we need to
integrate parents into that conversation.
I think it just starts with awareness.
And then we can work on prevention, of course, in
tandem, but that that needs to be shared with all members of
our community, that's a great point.
(03:39):
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Learn more at clever.com. You talked about bringing
families into the conversations,Educators into the
conversations? Can you share with us a little
(04:23):
bit of it experience that you'vehad as far as how you've brought
parents to the table. Absolutely absolutely.
So I do think it does need to start with the faculty who are
working directly with the students first.
Because once you share this information with parents, they
will have an expectation that any adult in the school
community that they reach out toor communicate with is going to
(04:45):
be on the same page in terms of that.
Level of knowledge or understanding.
So we started at my school, st. John's Prep in Danvers with some
faculty trainings. And you know, we are 6 through
12 school with about 1,500, students and about 160 faculty
members. So were the size of a very, very
(05:07):
big school, or a very small district.
And I think we function in both ways where a private school, but
I think we function similarly toboth especially as somebody who
has well over a decade, Of experience in public schools.
So I understand the difference is or to format those trainings.
We went and met with individual teams and middle schools.
A lot of times middle schools are grouped in teams and we met
(05:29):
with departments in the high school and we just gave them a
basic definition of what studentdata is, what student data
privacy is, we help them understand what we look for in
terms of use statements and in privacy policies and we help
them understand what we look at when we examine a website.
Right, or a new app or something.
(05:49):
When we're doing the vetting, that we are required to do, in
order to ensure that we're compliant with laws, like Coppa
and FERPA related to our protections of student data
privacy. And then that's it.
Then we said to them, this doesn't mean that you're
responsible for doing this wedding.
We just want you to know what wedo to protect the students that
(06:10):
all of us care about when you request a new subscription or
app or website, to be used in. Classroom.
The response was so positive. Right are our teachers now know
why we are asking for that permission in advance, and they
know why it takes some time for us to get back to them.
(06:32):
And when we aren't are unable toapprove their request with that
which actually just happened to me yesterday, it was a request
that came from a student though I provided screenshots of like
here's what it says in the tou. Here's what it says in the
privacy policy. Here's why it violates these
rules. I'm really, really grateful that
you went in and started reading those on your own and that
(06:52):
you're advocating for yourself though.
Let's work together to find a different solution, right.
And I think that's the key. So our teachers now, have a
better understanding, then we integrate it into to answer your
question to our parent trainings.
So, when a student starts in sixth grade at our school, and
when a student starts in ninth grade, part of the orientation
(07:15):
process, much of orientation is really just about the Student of
course and it's you know, integrating into our culture and
getting to know what it means tobe a student here and creating a
sense of belonging in our community.
But we want to create a similar sense of belonging for the
parents, right? We want them to feel like this
is, this is their students campus, but this is also a place
that is now an extended part of their family.
(07:36):
So we have some orientation programme, where we asked the
student and the parent to come together and learn a little bit
about the programs that we have in place to support them.
And one of those programs is Ourstudent data privacy because
they're entrusting us with information about their child
which is there. Absolutely.
Most precious most important thing in the world for them.
(07:56):
So here's what we need you to know as a parent about what
data, your student will be sharing with us and with the
companies that we've entrusted to be a part of the educational
process. And here's what you need to know
about how we're protecting it, and how we're staying apprised
of it. If a new tool comes about that
we think is academically valuable for your Student to
(08:18):
engage in well, vetted accordingto these standards.
This also just happened two weeks ago, if it doesn't meet
our standards, but we still think it's academically.
Valid valuable, we're going to contact you and say, hey, this
is a little bit outside of our parameters but it's really
valuable. So we want to give you a
heads-up that we're going to introduce this tool in your
(08:39):
students classroom. Here's the reasons why.
Here's like the process we went through.
Please let us know if you have any concerns.
And we will make sure we connectwith you directly.
We just did that with a generative AI powered tool that
a teacher wanted to integrate into her classroom of
(08:59):
sophomores. So these are mostly 15 16
year-olds and we had, we probably sent that email out to
the parents of about, I would say, 80 students.
We got five emails back with questions.
We answered their very appropriate questions and no one
said There were like, no, we love that you have, as part of
(09:22):
our orientation, informed us about what you're doing to
protect our student, that you'reallowing our students, to use
the latest and greatest technology as part of their
education in a really empowered and positive way.
And that you've kept us informed.
So I think that's it's like keeping everyone in the Loop B.
It's the constant communication.That's what helps people feel,
(09:43):
not afraid. But instead like I said
empowered, The empowering aspectof things wowing, the parents to
its streamlined that communicational letting them
know that they can reach out to.You has to be definitely
reassuring for them. There was a lot to kind of
unpack as far as what you said but there was one thing that
kind of point that stuck out to me and it's probably something
(10:04):
that's changed past 10-15 years and you brought up FERPA.
Yeah. With student privacy and those
things? How is that?
Kind of evolved a little bit if you don't mind?
Just kind of telling me a littlebit as far Is with the student
privacy when it comes to Tech because when FERPA was first set
up, I think it was probably maybe in the 70s.
(10:25):
And so we provide there's been alot of changes.
Yeah, we're tracking so much more information about our
students than ever before. We have a, you know, we have
student information systems thatare able to track data across so
many different areas of a student's life.
I think one of the phrases that we here in education often now
(10:47):
is The is the whole child, right?
So not only are we tracking their academic data, but we're
tracking Health Data and the academic data is no longer just
transcript, level data. There's often times, like,
formative assessment built-in, there's notes, that school
counselors are taking. That is built-in.
Sometimes it's literally just notes from a phone call that
like almost every time we have atouch point with a parent, we're
(11:09):
able to share notes on our sis so that other members of the
team that cares for that studentare able to access it so that
we're all on the same page. How are communicating with this
family. So I think FERPA was meant to
allow parents to feel like they could contact the school and
have access to the information about their child.
Because, let's be honest, of course, we care about children,
(11:32):
but the people who are the most aligned with what is best for
that child are the parents and that's the way it should be.
I think FERPA has evolved so that, you know, it's built into
every privacy policy and tou that parents can reach out and
get all the data. Right?
For any further children, but the truth is that the school is
(11:52):
acting in the place of the parent in a lot of cases when it
comes to the use of digital tools like a learning management
system or a formative assessmentplatform or something like that.
So we do need to be aligned withFERPA and I think there's a
implicit understanding that the school is due is acting in the
(12:15):
best interest of the child in the role of Parent when it comes
to selecting those tools when you are open with parents about
that about, and transparent about helping them understand
that I have found their very positive and they do trust us to
do that. They know that we're the experts
and the professionals when it comes to education.
(12:35):
Technology. Many, I mean, almost all of the
parents that come to a school orwho send a child to a school
work with technology in some way, in their professional life
but education technology really has its own niche.
Each Shawn. I've even had parents at these
orientations raise their hand and ask me like student data
privacy questions thinking they're going to like stump me
and then I answer the question and I'm like but if you like
(12:59):
clearly you have a deep knowledge of this.
So if you want to have a one-on-one conversation with me
after this program because it's like hundred people in the room
so I don't want to bug them downin our like come.
And see me, you know let's let'stalk another time or let's talk
after the program and then I talk to them after and they're
like oh yeah I'm a VP at Microsoft and I'm like oh Okay,
I'm like so that's why you have such a depth of understanding.
(13:20):
Let's talk more about your VP role.
Like what aspect of the technology are you involved in?
And then I find out that they'relike a VP of marketing, which is
phenomenal. But it's just not the same as
what what it is to work in education, technology.
And they just wanted to make sure that I had the expertise to
really talk about what I was talking about when it's
(13:42):
connected with their child and once we have that conversation,
they do and that's our Job is tojust like demonstrate to them
that we are qualified to take care of their children, which is
the most precious thing in theirlife.
Transparency aspect of things. I think that's, that's so
important. Thank you for that.
That's, that's really good. Now I'm going to ask you this as
(14:04):
a parent of two teenage boys myself.
They have these things attached to their hip all the time.
Can you share with our audience,a little bit of safety concerns?
That parents should be aware of when it comes to Downloading
various apps that we have on these things.
Yeah, yeah, great question. So my Sean you and I chatted a
(14:26):
little bit before I have two teenage girls and you have two
teenage boys. So in some ways we're very
similar to another ways. It's probably a little bit
different in terms of our experience with our own children
and I'm really grateful for how old my children are right now at
this moment because I often havethe Opera of course I have the
opportunity to work with parentsin the school community that I
serve but Because of my larger role with connect safely
(14:49):
Nationwide. I am often contacted by leaders
and other school communities to come and provide parents with
some guidance. And I really am walking the talk
with my own children, they need to have these things with them
all the time. It number one, it's comforting
for me. My 11 year old walks herself to
(15:10):
and from or rides her bike to and from school every day, the
house is empty. When she leave his house, all of
us have already left. This allows me to track where
she is Like, I know that. She what time she leaves?
I've already been in the office for over an hour.
I can pop my phone up and just kind of watch her make her way
to school and watch her go home and it's really not something
that I do, because I'm like, checking up on her.
(15:32):
It's like, comes from a place ofcaring and concern and she knows
that. And I've shared with her that I
do that, and I think that that'sfair as long as like, like the
theme of our conversation as long as, as a parent.
I'm being transparent with her about how I'm using the Ecology
and what it allows me to see well I track her location when
she goes to college. I mean, I hope I won't I mean I
(15:54):
don't have a child in college yet but that seems a little
excessive if she's no longer living with me.
I don't know that I have a rightto that information anymore.
So we may turn that. That part of the service that is
offered on the platform off whenit comes to data privacy.
And and that I do think parents should feel empowered to do
something we have. And this is true both on If you
(16:17):
have a Android phone like a Google style phone, or if you
have an apple platform phone, both have settings in place that
allow you to have some supervision over your child's
device. And you can be the one to either
approve or deny their ability todownload a new app or program.
I still use that even with my older teenager and I've trained
(16:41):
them as to what the criteria arefor me to down to approve
something. So now when I get a request I
get get a follow-up text messageexplaining why they want the app
and why I am likely to approve it.
And part of that criteria is youknow, what are they using it
for? What need is it filling that is
no longer that is not already met, you know, what would they
(17:04):
be able to access in terms of information or friendships or
something like that creativity? You know, entertainment
entertainment is a valid reason to want an app that they don't
have access to. And I always ask them to Check
it out in the App Store and terms of the age rating and also
whether there are in app purchases.
(17:24):
And so, we've had conversations about that.
And for, I mean, the criteria for my 14 year, olds are
different than the criteria for my eleven-year-old, obviously,
because of their different age levels.
But also because they're different people, I'm sure Shawn
like, you have two kids. One thing about having more than
one child is like, you'll have one and I don't, I mean, my
(17:46):
experience was, I had one and I I was like, I'm pretty good at
this parent. Think.
I'm gonna have another one, and you have another one.
You're like, I thought I had it figured out what is happening
right now, so I think that's another thing parents should
feel empowered to like have different standards for
different children based on the needs of those children.
And just be honest with your kids, like you let her do that,
but you don't let me and I'm like, but you're not her and
(18:07):
like your strengths and struggles are in different
places and I let you do this, that she couldn't do at your age
and like that's also Like not equal but it's what each of you
need at this time in your life. So all of those things are part
of our conversation. My standards are if the age
(18:28):
rating needs to be appropriate and if the age rating is not,
then I will check in. I'll do a little more digging on
the app and just find out like why and if it has in-app
purchases that's not a, that's not like a deal-breaker, but
they need to know that they're not allowed to make and that
purchases. None of neither Of my children
has ever violated that because my credit card is is tied to
(18:51):
their account. Neither of my children has ever
violated that, but they have asked me to buy them power-ups
and games. And all they have to do is make
the case. And I have said, yes.
So I think that's the other thing is that and no rule can be
an absolute rule. There, you have to be willing to
have the conversations because within those conversations, as a
(19:13):
parent is where the education happens for your child where
they learn about. Out.
What, like it, for me, it isn't just about the money.
It's like, is that money worth it in terms of value?
How much does this mean to you? And if this game means that much
to you, like, do you want it to take up that much space in your
life? What else could that space be
(19:34):
taken up with? Could it be taken up with time
with friends or doing a paintingor going to a sports practice?
Or so? Like I've bought power-ups for
three bucks but I won't buy power-ups for 20 bucks.
Right? So I think that that's the
conversation that we've had. I love the fact how you have
your daughter's, give you a reason why they need the app and
(19:56):
it's not just I need more screentime.
Yeah, it's not just that. But why do you need this?
Why do you need that? So, that's really good.
I appreciate you kind of sharingthat with us.
Go serve as the premier membership organization designed
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their resources, support the entire it infrastructure of the
school system. The kosan offers members access
(20:18):
to their thought, leaders acrossthe country, and the ability to
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I want to Pivot back a little bit to some of the data privacy
that we kind of talked about andyou've really kind of covered a
(20:39):
lot of things. But there's some things that I
want to kind of nail down for it.
As far as systems processes thatyou've put in place to surface
Education data, privacy to individual groups.
We talked a little bit about, you know, with your background
as a tedx speaker and going to different districts, kind of
share with us a little bit. Some of your expertise, some of
(21:00):
your Thoughts on this the systems that we have put in
place at St. John's.
And this is something I've shared at like CTO conferences,
and stuff like that, so that other schools can replicate this
in a way that works best for them.
I think the important thing is to build the systems into your
existing system. So don't try to create a whole
new system in order for data privacy to be effectively
(21:25):
implemented a screening process.So when I came to st.
John's there was already a book list process that was in place
where teachers if they wanted toselect a new book for the
following school year, they had to submit that by March 1st of
the of the year before. So when I started here, I said,
let's add to the book list process apps that they want
(21:49):
load. And we're in 121, I pour an
apple school. So once for an apple
distinguished School actually. So, we're one to one with iPads.
The students are and the teachers.
Each have an iPad and a MacBook.If you want a new app that
students are going to have access to on their iPads that
needs to be added to the book list because it's a resource
used for teaching and learning just like a book.
So the book list became a book and app list, okay?
(22:12):
And the whole thing was that that was exactly when we did
those trainings, I mentioned earlier in our conversation with
each, we went around to each of the Departments and said, this
is why we're adding apps to the book list.
Here's what we do. And this is why we need it so
far in advance. That doesn't mean that a teacher
can't request an app in like me.December.
They can they just need to understand that it's already
(22:33):
made year. So it may take us a few days and
we really truly only take a few days to analyze it turn around
and let them know if it can be added.
The standards are different for Middle School than they are for
high school because of the ages of the students and our legal
obligations, we shared that withthe teachers.
So we built that into the process.
I want to say like six or seven years ago, we built that into
(22:57):
the process once they got accustomed to that.
The scope of how resources are accessed has increased and
improved. So now a lot of our textbooks
are actually digital platforms. And so those are on that same
list. So now, it's not even called the
book and app list, it's called like the resource list or
something. I forget we had, we've had to
(23:18):
rename it a bunch of times because what then it was not
just physical books, and apps and online platforms.
Now, it's also any Eight where students have to create accounts
to access it. So, you know, sometimes I get
clarifying questions from Department leadership, like with
this app qualify, or this website qualify will this one?
(23:42):
And, and that's why I'm willing to answer a million questions to
get this, right? So that were like protecting our
students data and doing our due diligence.
And so that's the system that webuilt in and so the list, as you
can imagine, we have 12 academic.
Departments is long and it takesmy team a long.
Time to go through it, but because we have the opportunity
(24:03):
to build that list every year with our academic instructional
leaders, we have conversations about student data, privacy
annually. Now with that group.
So the initial training was likea sit-down training, but now the
conversations are just a part ofour processes.
It's a part of the systems that we are already doing.
(24:24):
So that's one way that we did itand I would say the other way
that we've built in and Is what I mentioned before, which is
part of our parent orientation is learning about what the dress
code is. It's learning about our
disciplinary, you know, processes and expectations.
It's learning about how to navigate a student schedule, and
(24:47):
it's learning about how we protect student data privacy,
and how parents can reach out tous if they have questions.
So it's built into the orientation structures.
So that would be. My advice is look for the
opportunities and existing systems.
Don't try to create a new systembecause that will feel like an
extra. And what I've found is that both
(25:07):
the reaction from teachers in the reaction from parents as
like other orientations I've done have not included this like
what made you think to add this?You know and it's because if you
do what many schools do and you have like a parent night where
it's like learn everything, it is everything that we do around
technology to serve your student, parents don't have time
(25:29):
to come. In the evenings and spend an
hour for like a special parent program.
They're probably like you and I Sean and like I'm leaving work
and my husband and I are drivingin opposite directions with our
children for sports. So like a an evening events to
go to their school. Like it's a lovely idea but
that's just not a part of my reality, for sure.
(25:50):
There's a there's a term that isout there in the cyber community
and those things bad actor. Yeah.
When it comes to student data, privacy, Visee.
And you're going through this and you're educating the parents
about this. How many times do they kind of
like step back and go? Whoa, I didn't realize that.
Yeah, I mean, I think the bad actor thing is less common than
(26:13):
we think. I think a lot of times when
student data privacy is policiesor violated or their breeches
oftentimes, it's because of its as a result of the naivete of Ed
Tech startups. So I do I think and so I really
don't think it's intentional. I don't think there's any malice
(26:35):
behind it. I think it's simply because of
somebody who's really enthusiastic and inspired to put
a solution in the hands of teachers and students who just
doesn't know enough about cybersecurity and what they need
to do on that end. And so, their product goes to
Market and there just hasn't been anyone along the
development process with them. Who said, like, hold on, this is
(26:58):
something that you need to do before.
Or you go before you go to market in terms of Bad actors.
The other part of our earlier conversation about like, social
media and Online, safety and stuff, that's I think where it
does happen. I've done some work with, you
know, the internet crimes against children organization,
through my work, with connect safely, with neck neck.
(27:18):
I actually just got off the phone with somebody from neck
neck right before this, this conversation.
And that's where we're talking about things like sextortion.
And we're talking about the Getting of users of social media
by Bad actors. And those are like actual rings
that are meant to get financial benefit by basically
(27:40):
blackmailing people that's what sextortion is.
So I think that all of that is areally important part of any
kind of like digital Wellness conversation, and I think
schools are a great institution to be the Distributors of that
information. I don't necessarily think
schools are obligated to do it because a lot of it is not
(28:00):
necessarily connected to like what we do in school, the
business of school is academics,but I think if your school
mission is tied to that whole child approach, then you are
obligated to do it. So I think, like, if you want to
be really truly black and white about what schools do we are,
obligated to protect student data privacy, because we are
using technology in order for students to access their.
(28:21):
Our curriculum, I happen to workat a school, that's very
mission-oriented. And we talked and one of the
reasons that families decide to send their children, Here is
because they agree with that whole child Wellness approach,
that there's an aspect of their life, that's not just academic,
but athletic aesthetic, spiritual all of it, right?
As a result, we feel an obligation to make sure that
(28:44):
they're aware of those Bad actors and that they can protect
themselves, but I think as a school that's something that you
have to assess and decide. Do you feel as though you're
equipped to do that? And if you're not what resources
can you access so that you know,if it continues to come up, you
can You can address it. One more thing I would add is
that that actors are not always strangers, sometimes those Bad
(29:05):
actors within our community. Unfortunately, adolescents make
poor choices as they're trying to figure out how to make their
way through this world. They test boundaries and
sometimes they step over boundaries when they're testing
them. And as a school Community, you
have to decide what are your values around both holding them
accountable and helping them move forward in their lives when
(29:28):
they make those choices? Yes, that's that's really
powerful and my follow-up would be it term that you said is a
little dated digital footprint. Yeah.
Yeah. And understanding that aspect.
Yeah. I think a lot of people are.
I think the old-fashioned terminology is like digital
citizenship and the old-fashioned terminology that
(29:51):
goes with digital citizenship isdigital footprint.
The reason, I don't think it's not that I think like digital
citizenship is problematic. I I just don't, I don't think
it's broad-reaching enough, I think digital citizenship is
about being a good person online.
Being your true self. Like the same person that you
are in person is who you should be online.
(30:13):
And, you know, I think some somedefinitions of digital
citizenship integrate a little bit of media literacy into that,
which I think is really helpful and important, but it doesn't
get to some of the other things that digital Wellness gets to,
which Like, are you getting enough sleep as compared to how
(30:34):
much time you're spending on screens?
What are your night habits with your technology?
Are you getting enough exercise?When you communicate over
technology? What does that look like?
Is all text messaging. How much of it is video calling,
like how many hours are you spending doing that?
Who are you always video calling, with the same people?
Are they the same people that you see all day in school?
Or are they people that you wouldn't otherwise have the
(30:56):
opportunity to communicate with?Like how are you using the The
technology to do things that areopening doors for you, rather
than making your world smaller. But when it comes to digital
footprint, that aspect of digital wellness and citizenship
there is no way for us to never make mistakes with what we put
(31:17):
out there, online, whether we'readults or children and children
are going to make more mistakes than adults because that's how
they're built. That's part of growing up.
That's what we expect from them,so to expect from them, Never
put anything that's a mistake orproblematic.
Online is an unfair expectation and sets them up for failure in
(31:38):
a way that's unfair to them. Like, part of growing is messing
up and moving through life in that way.
There are some mistakes that arebigger than others and so
mistakes that crossover, think if you put, if a student, were
to post something online that crosses over into being sexist,
or racist or a threat of violence, It's or something.
(32:00):
That's very serious. Then.
Yeah. I think, you know, we need to
hold them accountable, we need to in a preventive way, warned
them against doing that, and talk to them a little bit about
the longer term expectations. And there's also services like
take it down, dot-org that can get that removed and scrubbed
(32:20):
from the internet now. But there needs to be a little
bit of a combination of accountability.
But also like, Whoo-hoo, you're having the conversation with and
if it's like an eleven-year-old like, but that's still a little
kid who's, like, making little kid mistakes.
Unfortunately, they're making iton a public scale, but we need
(32:44):
to not just hold them accountable, but take care of
them in the aftermath of that, that's my perspective.
I'm not one that's great insightand I thank you for that.
Well, wonderful carry, this has been absolutely fabulous and I
have one question because we've covered a lot of great topics
today in closing. If you could change one thing
about digital safety and wellness for parents students
(33:05):
and Educators, what would that be really good question.
What I would like to change is like more hearts and Minds than
systems that I would love for fewer people to feel afraid to
talk about it. I think, when I am on the
sidelines of the fields, where my children are playing sports
games, you know. It's pretty clear what I do
(33:27):
professionally. When you look me up online.
And so, a lot of the parents of my children's friends and
teammates are like, hey, we ran into this at home.
Like, what what should we do? And but they're not asking other
each other, they're asking me aslike the expert who they happen
to know. And I think when their child
(33:49):
makes a mistake, they're afraid to admit to other parents
because they're worried it makesthem a bad parent.
If I could change anything, it would be that we would talk more
openly about this. Because the truth is that it's
advancing so quickly that we're all figuring it out as we go and
no other generation of parents has done this before.
So I think if we could be more open with one another, when our
(34:11):
child makes these mistakes, we can better help one another move
through it as a community and myhope would be as an extension of
that, that parents would be moreopen to partnering with schools
when this happens, unfortunately, sometimes when
this happens and it has an impact on the school day.
And we as a school as school leaders, like reach out to
(34:34):
parents. And this I mean, this has
happened a couple times at my school but it my school.
I know we're not alone, parents got, of course, got reaction is
to protect their child and be like, well everyone else is
doing it too, so it's not a problem.
And it's like, well, but is thatthe value right?
Even if it's a very commonly done thing and even if your
(34:55):
child just happened to get caught, are those the values
that we've agreed to You as parents in this community that
we share together. I wish that we could again just
be more honest and vulnerable with each other about the harder
parts of this so that we can really develop creative
empowering and Positive Solutions together because those
Solutions are out there and we would get to them faster if
(35:18):
we're more willing to be open and not so afraid.
We're all human. We all make mistakes.
We shouldn't be afraid of our mistakes.
It's an outstanding point and communication again.
Communication is the key, it seems that he Everything.
Well, Carrie, thank you so much for your time today, and
insight. Once again, we'd like to thank
today's sponsor clever for supporting this episode on
digital safety. We look forward to having future
(35:40):
conversations down the road. Thank you again.
Kari, thank you. Sean on behalf of the leadership
team at kosan. Thank you for listening to this
episode of the coats and podcastto access other podcasts in the
series. Visit kosan dot org or Ed
circuit.com for complete lineup of engaging technology topics Ed
circuit. Empowers.
The voices of Education with hundreds of trusted contributors
(36:03):
changemakers and industry-leading education.
Innovators Empowers. The voices of Education with
hundreds of trusted contributorschangemakers and
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Welcome to the coast and podcast.
Produced in partnership with Ed circuit media, in organization
focused entirely on the K20 and tech industry and empowering.
The voices that can provide guidance and expertise in
facilitating, the appropriate usage of digital, technology in
education, Ed circuit Elevate, the voices of today's Innovative
(00:25):
thought, leaders and experts caution represents over 13
million students. It's in districts and
educational institutions, Nationwide and continues to grow
as a powerful and influential voice in K-12 education.
This high-profile series showcases industry, thought
leaders and Executives who provide timely Market insights
(00:47):
and critical guidance, on various educational technology,
strategies, hello, and welcome to the coast and podcast.
My name is Shawn Ryan and on behalf of kosan and today's
sponsor clever. We are excited to bring you a
conversation on digital safety with the focus on how you can
bring Educators students and families into the conversation.
(01:09):
Joining me today is Carrie Gallagher, welcome to the
podcast. Hey, Sean, thanks for having me
today. Carrie is the assistant
principal for teaching and learning at st.
John's Prep in Danvers Massachusetts.
She's also the education director for connect safely.
Dot-org prior to moving into Administration.
Carry served as a middle school teacher.
(01:30):
Teacher High School teacher and then digital learning specialist
for over 15 years, carries a tedx and keynote speaker, and
also shares her expertise by designing, professional learning
for school districts around the country.
Once again, welcome to the podcast carry.
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited for this conversation.
(01:50):
Wonderful, I would like to go ahead and start off the
discussion by asking you to Define student privacy in the
K-12 landscape. Yeah, sure.
You know I think we are In an era, especially post pandemic,
where our students and our teachers are just a custom to
day-to-day engaging with a variety of platforms that allow
them to create and consume information to communicate with
(02:15):
one another and to collaborate on, you know really inspiring
tasks that are engaging them with their learning, very
actively, as a result of that. Those of us who are working in
either it or teaching them. Learning Administration have an
added layer of responsibility that's perhaps even more evident
(02:36):
than it has been in the past to make sure that the information
that they are engaging with. And you know, the information
about themselves that they shareon these platforms is protected
because the students that we serve are under the age of 18 or
16 or 13, or 12, or even youngerthan that.
(02:57):
So I think we need to be carefulabout.
Out ensuring that both the students and the teachers who
are engaging together are aware of what student data is and what
information, they are giving of themselves to, you know, us as
(03:17):
the school administration to thecompanies that control the data
as part of those platforms. And then also we need to
integrate parents into that conversation.
I think it just starts with awareness.
And then we can work on prevention, of course, in
tandem, but that that needs to be shared with all members of
our community, that's a great point.
(03:39):
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(04:02):
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protected access, to key applications and devices.
Learn more at clever.com. You talked about bringing
families into the conversations,Educators into the
conversations? Can you share with us a little
(04:23):
bit of it experience that you'vehad as far as how you've brought
parents to the table. Absolutely absolutely.
So I do think it does need to start with the faculty who are
working directly with the students first.
Because once you share this information with parents, they
will have an expectation that any adult in the school
community that they reach out toor communicate with is going to
(04:45):
be on the same page in terms of that.
Level of knowledge or understanding.
So we started at my school, st. John's Prep in Danvers with some
faculty trainings. And you know, we are 6 through
12 school with about 1,500, students and about 160 faculty
members. So were the size of a very, very
(05:07):
big school, or a very small district.
And I think we function in both ways where a private school, but
I think we function similarly toboth especially as somebody who
has well over a decade, Of experience in public schools.
So I understand the difference is or to format those trainings.
We went and met with individual teams and middle schools.
A lot of times middle schools are grouped in teams and we met
(05:29):
with departments in the high school and we just gave them a
basic definition of what studentdata is, what student data
privacy is, we help them understand what we look for in
terms of use statements and in privacy policies and we help
them understand what we look at when we examine a website.
Right, or a new app or something.
(05:49):
When we're doing the vetting, that we are required to do, in
order to ensure that we're compliant with laws, like Coppa
and FERPA related to our protections of student data
privacy. And then that's it.
Then we said to them, this doesn't mean that you're
responsible for doing this wedding.
We just want you to know what wedo to protect the students that
(06:10):
all of us care about when you request a new subscription or
app or website, to be used in. Classroom.
The response was so positive. Right are our teachers now know
why we are asking for that permission in advance, and they
know why it takes some time for us to get back to them.
(06:32):
And when we aren't are unable toapprove their request with that
which actually just happened to me yesterday, it was a request
that came from a student though I provided screenshots of like
here's what it says in the tou. Here's what it says in the
privacy policy. Here's why it violates these
rules. I'm really, really grateful that
you went in and started reading those on your own and that
(06:52):
you're advocating for yourself though.
Let's work together to find a different solution, right.
And I think that's the key. So our teachers now, have a
better understanding, then we integrate it into to answer your
question to our parent trainings.
So, when a student starts in sixth grade at our school, and
when a student starts in ninth grade, part of the orientation
(07:15):
process, much of orientation is really just about the Student of
course and it's you know, integrating into our culture and
getting to know what it means tobe a student here and creating a
sense of belonging in our community.
But we want to create a similar sense of belonging for the
parents, right? We want them to feel like this
is, this is their students campus, but this is also a place
that is now an extended part of their family.
(07:36):
So we have some orientation programme, where we asked the
student and the parent to come together and learn a little bit
about the programs that we have in place to support them.
And one of those programs is Ourstudent data privacy because
they're entrusting us with information about their child
which is there. Absolutely.
Most precious most important thing in the world for them.
(07:56):
So here's what we need you to know as a parent about what
data, your student will be sharing with us and with the
companies that we've entrusted to be a part of the educational
process. And here's what you need to know
about how we're protecting it, and how we're staying apprised
of it. If a new tool comes about that
we think is academically valuable for your Student to
(08:18):
engage in well, vetted accordingto these standards.
This also just happened two weeks ago, if it doesn't meet
our standards, but we still think it's academically.
Valid valuable, we're going to contact you and say, hey, this
is a little bit outside of our parameters but it's really
valuable. So we want to give you a
heads-up that we're going to introduce this tool in your
(08:39):
students classroom. Here's the reasons why.
Here's like the process we went through.
Please let us know if you have any concerns.
And we will make sure we connectwith you directly.
We just did that with a generative AI powered tool that
a teacher wanted to integrate into her classroom of
(08:59):
sophomores. So these are mostly 15 16
year-olds and we had, we probably sent that email out to
the parents of about, I would say, 80 students.
We got five emails back with questions.
We answered their very appropriate questions and no one
said There were like, no, we love that you have, as part of
(09:22):
our orientation, informed us about what you're doing to
protect our student, that you'reallowing our students, to use
the latest and greatest technology as part of their
education in a really empowered and positive way.
And that you've kept us informed.
So I think that's it's like keeping everyone in the Loop B.
It's the constant communication.That's what helps people feel,
(09:43):
not afraid. But instead like I said
empowered, The empowering aspectof things wowing, the parents to
its streamlined that communicational letting them
know that they can reach out to.You has to be definitely
reassuring for them. There was a lot to kind of
unpack as far as what you said but there was one thing that
kind of point that stuck out to me and it's probably something
(10:04):
that's changed past 10-15 years and you brought up FERPA.
Yeah. With student privacy and those
things? How is that?
Kind of evolved a little bit if you don't mind?
Just kind of telling me a littlebit as far Is with the student
privacy when it comes to Tech because when FERPA was first set
up, I think it was probably maybe in the 70s.
(10:25):
And so we provide there's been alot of changes.
Yeah, we're tracking so much more information about our
students than ever before. We have a, you know, we have
student information systems thatare able to track data across so
many different areas of a student's life.
I think one of the phrases that we here in education often now
(10:47):
is The is the whole child, right?
So not only are we tracking their academic data, but we're
tracking Health Data and the academic data is no longer just
transcript, level data. There's often times, like,
formative assessment built-in, there's notes, that school
counselors are taking. That is built-in.
Sometimes it's literally just notes from a phone call that
like almost every time we have atouch point with a parent, we're
(11:09):
able to share notes on our sis so that other members of the
team that cares for that studentare able to access it so that
we're all on the same page. How are communicating with this
family. So I think FERPA was meant to
allow parents to feel like they could contact the school and
have access to the information about their child.
Because, let's be honest, of course, we care about children,
(11:32):
but the people who are the most aligned with what is best for
that child are the parents and that's the way it should be.
I think FERPA has evolved so that, you know, it's built into
every privacy policy and tou that parents can reach out and
get all the data. Right?
For any further children, but the truth is that the school is
(11:52):
acting in the place of the parent in a lot of cases when it
comes to the use of digital tools like a learning management
system or a formative assessmentplatform or something like that.
So we do need to be aligned withFERPA and I think there's a
implicit understanding that the school is due is acting in the
(12:15):
best interest of the child in the role of Parent when it comes
to selecting those tools when you are open with parents about
that about, and transparent about helping them understand
that I have found their very positive and they do trust us to
do that. They know that we're the experts
and the professionals when it comes to education.
(12:35):
Technology. Many, I mean, almost all of the
parents that come to a school orwho send a child to a school
work with technology in some way, in their professional life
but education technology really has its own niche.
Each Shawn. I've even had parents at these
orientations raise their hand and ask me like student data
privacy questions thinking they're going to like stump me
and then I answer the question and I'm like but if you like
(12:59):
clearly you have a deep knowledge of this.
So if you want to have a one-on-one conversation with me
after this program because it's like hundred people in the room
so I don't want to bug them downin our like come.
And see me, you know let's let'stalk another time or let's talk
after the program and then I talk to them after and they're
like oh yeah I'm a VP at Microsoft and I'm like oh Okay,
I'm like so that's why you have such a depth of understanding.
(13:20):
Let's talk more about your VP role.
Like what aspect of the technology are you involved in?
And then I find out that they'relike a VP of marketing, which is
phenomenal. But it's just not the same as
what what it is to work in education, technology.
And they just wanted to make sure that I had the expertise to
really talk about what I was talking about when it's
(13:42):
connected with their child and once we have that conversation,
they do and that's our Job is tojust like demonstrate to them
that we are qualified to take care of their children, which is
the most precious thing in theirlife.
Transparency aspect of things. I think that's, that's so
important. Thank you for that.
That's, that's really good. Now I'm going to ask you this as
(14:04):
a parent of two teenage boys myself.
They have these things attached to their hip all the time.
Can you share with our audience,a little bit of safety concerns?
That parents should be aware of when it comes to Downloading
various apps that we have on these things.
Yeah, yeah, great question. So my Sean you and I chatted a
(14:26):
little bit before I have two teenage girls and you have two
teenage boys. So in some ways we're very
similar to another ways. It's probably a little bit
different in terms of our experience with our own children
and I'm really grateful for how old my children are right now at
this moment because I often havethe Opera of course I have the
opportunity to work with parentsin the school community that I
serve but Because of my larger role with connect safely
(14:49):
Nationwide. I am often contacted by leaders
and other school communities to come and provide parents with
some guidance. And I really am walking the talk
with my own children, they need to have these things with them
all the time. It number one, it's comforting
for me. My 11 year old walks herself to
(15:10):
and from or rides her bike to and from school every day, the
house is empty. When she leave his house, all of
us have already left. This allows me to track where
she is Like, I know that. She what time she leaves?
I've already been in the office for over an hour.
I can pop my phone up and just kind of watch her make her way
to school and watch her go home and it's really not something
that I do, because I'm like, checking up on her.
(15:32):
It's like, comes from a place ofcaring and concern and she knows
that. And I've shared with her that I
do that, and I think that that'sfair as long as like, like the
theme of our conversation as long as, as a parent.
I'm being transparent with her about how I'm using the Ecology
and what it allows me to see well I track her location when
she goes to college. I mean, I hope I won't I mean I
(15:54):
don't have a child in college yet but that seems a little
excessive if she's no longer living with me.
I don't know that I have a rightto that information anymore.
So we may turn that. That part of the service that is
offered on the platform off whenit comes to data privacy.
And and that I do think parents should feel empowered to do
something we have. And this is true both on If you
(16:17):
have a Android phone like a Google style phone, or if you
have an apple platform phone, both have settings in place that
allow you to have some supervision over your child's
device. And you can be the one to either
approve or deny their ability todownload a new app or program.
I still use that even with my older teenager and I've trained
(16:41):
them as to what the criteria arefor me to down to approve
something. So now when I get a request I
get get a follow-up text messageexplaining why they want the app
and why I am likely to approve it.
And part of that criteria is youknow, what are they using it
for? What need is it filling that is
no longer that is not already met, you know, what would they
(17:04):
be able to access in terms of information or friendships or
something like that creativity? You know, entertainment
entertainment is a valid reason to want an app that they don't
have access to. And I always ask them to Check
it out in the App Store and terms of the age rating and also
whether there are in app purchases.
(17:24):
And so, we've had conversations about that.
And for, I mean, the criteria for my 14 year, olds are
different than the criteria for my eleven-year-old, obviously,
because of their different age levels.
But also because they're different people, I'm sure Shawn
like, you have two kids. One thing about having more than
one child is like, you'll have one and I don't, I mean, my
(17:46):
experience was, I had one and I I was like, I'm pretty good at
this parent. Think.
I'm gonna have another one, and you have another one.
You're like, I thought I had it figured out what is happening
right now, so I think that's another thing parents should
feel empowered to like have different standards for
different children based on the needs of those children.
And just be honest with your kids, like you let her do that,
but you don't let me and I'm like, but you're not her and
(18:07):
like your strengths and struggles are in different
places and I let you do this, that she couldn't do at your age
and like that's also Like not equal but it's what each of you
need at this time in your life. So all of those things are part
of our conversation. My standards are if the age
(18:28):
rating needs to be appropriate and if the age rating is not,
then I will check in. I'll do a little more digging on
the app and just find out like why and if it has in-app
purchases that's not a, that's not like a deal-breaker, but
they need to know that they're not allowed to make and that
purchases. None of neither Of my children
has ever violated that because my credit card is is tied to
(18:51):
their account. Neither of my children has ever
violated that, but they have asked me to buy them power-ups
and games. And all they have to do is make
the case. And I have said, yes.
So I think that's the other thing is that and no rule can be
an absolute rule. There, you have to be willing to
have the conversations because within those conversations, as a
(19:13):
parent is where the education happens for your child where
they learn about. Out.
What, like it, for me, it isn't just about the money.
It's like, is that money worth it in terms of value?
How much does this mean to you? And if this game means that much
to you, like, do you want it to take up that much space in your
life? What else could that space be
(19:34):
taken up with? Could it be taken up with time
with friends or doing a paintingor going to a sports practice?
Or so? Like I've bought power-ups for
three bucks but I won't buy power-ups for 20 bucks.
Right? So I think that that's the
conversation that we've had. I love the fact how you have
your daughter's, give you a reason why they need the app and
(19:56):
it's not just I need more screentime.
Yeah, it's not just that. But why do you need this?
Why do you need that? So, that's really good.
I appreciate you kind of sharingthat with us.
Go serve as the premier membership organization designed
to meet the needs of K-12 education, technology leaders
their resources, support the entire it infrastructure of the
school system. The kosan offers members access
(20:18):
to their thought, leaders acrossthe country, and the ability to
actively participate in local coast and chapters join the
network today, by visiting cosomdot-org, and become another
influential voice in K-12 education.
I want to Pivot back a little bit to some of the data privacy
that we kind of talked about andyou've really kind of covered a
(20:39):
lot of things. But there's some things that I
want to kind of nail down for it.
As far as systems processes thatyou've put in place to surface
Education data, privacy to individual groups.
We talked a little bit about, you know, with your background
as a tedx speaker and going to different districts, kind of
share with us a little bit. Some of your expertise, some of
(21:00):
your Thoughts on this the systems that we have put in
place at St. John's.
And this is something I've shared at like CTO conferences,
and stuff like that, so that other schools can replicate this
in a way that works best for them.
I think the important thing is to build the systems into your
existing system. So don't try to create a whole
new system in order for data privacy to be effectively
(21:25):
implemented a screening process.So when I came to st.
John's there was already a book list process that was in place
where teachers if they wanted toselect a new book for the
following school year, they had to submit that by March 1st of
the of the year before. So when I started here, I said,
let's add to the book list process apps that they want
(21:49):
load. And we're in 121, I pour an
apple school. So once for an apple
distinguished School actually. So, we're one to one with iPads.
The students are and the teachers.
Each have an iPad and a MacBook.If you want a new app that
students are going to have access to on their iPads that
needs to be added to the book list because it's a resource
used for teaching and learning just like a book.
So the book list became a book and app list, okay?
(22:12):
And the whole thing was that that was exactly when we did
those trainings, I mentioned earlier in our conversation with
each, we went around to each of the Departments and said, this
is why we're adding apps to the book list.
Here's what we do. And this is why we need it so
far in advance. That doesn't mean that a teacher
can't request an app in like me.December.
They can they just need to understand that it's already
(22:33):
made year. So it may take us a few days and
we really truly only take a few days to analyze it turn around
and let them know if it can be added.
The standards are different for Middle School than they are for
high school because of the ages of the students and our legal
obligations, we shared that withthe teachers.
So we built that into the process.
I want to say like six or seven years ago, we built that into
(22:57):
the process once they got accustomed to that.
The scope of how resources are accessed has increased and
improved. So now a lot of our textbooks
are actually digital platforms. And so those are on that same
list. So now, it's not even called the
book and app list, it's called like the resource list or
something. I forget we had, we've had to
(23:18):
rename it a bunch of times because what then it was not
just physical books, and apps and online platforms.
Now, it's also any Eight where students have to create accounts
to access it. So, you know, sometimes I get
clarifying questions from Department leadership, like with
this app qualify, or this website qualify will this one?
(23:42):
And, and that's why I'm willing to answer a million questions to
get this, right? So that were like protecting our
students data and doing our due diligence.
And so that's the system that webuilt in and so the list, as you
can imagine, we have 12 academic.
Departments is long and it takesmy team a long.
Time to go through it, but because we have the opportunity
(24:03):
to build that list every year with our academic instructional
leaders, we have conversations about student data, privacy
annually. Now with that group.
So the initial training was likea sit-down training, but now the
conversations are just a part ofour processes.
It's a part of the systems that we are already doing.
(24:24):
So that's one way that we did itand I would say the other way
that we've built in and Is what I mentioned before, which is
part of our parent orientation is learning about what the dress
code is. It's learning about our
disciplinary, you know, processes and expectations.
It's learning about how to navigate a student schedule, and
(24:47):
it's learning about how we protect student data privacy,
and how parents can reach out tous if they have questions.
So it's built into the orientation structures.
So that would be. My advice is look for the
opportunities and existing systems.
Don't try to create a new systembecause that will feel like an
extra. And what I've found is that both
(25:07):
the reaction from teachers in the reaction from parents as
like other orientations I've done have not included this like
what made you think to add this?You know and it's because if you
do what many schools do and you have like a parent night where
it's like learn everything, it is everything that we do around
technology to serve your student, parents don't have time
(25:29):
to come. In the evenings and spend an
hour for like a special parent program.
They're probably like you and I Sean and like I'm leaving work
and my husband and I are drivingin opposite directions with our
children for sports. So like a an evening events to
go to their school. Like it's a lovely idea but
that's just not a part of my reality, for sure.
(25:50):
There's a there's a term that isout there in the cyber community
and those things bad actor. Yeah.
When it comes to student data, privacy, Visee.
And you're going through this and you're educating the parents
about this. How many times do they kind of
like step back and go? Whoa, I didn't realize that.
Yeah, I mean, I think the bad actor thing is less common than
(26:13):
we think. I think a lot of times when
student data privacy is policiesor violated or their breeches
oftentimes, it's because of its as a result of the naivete of Ed
Tech startups. So I do I think and so I really
don't think it's intentional. I don't think there's any malice
(26:35):
behind it. I think it's simply because of
somebody who's really enthusiastic and inspired to put
a solution in the hands of teachers and students who just
doesn't know enough about cybersecurity and what they need
to do on that end. And so, their product goes to
Market and there just hasn't been anyone along the
development process with them. Who said, like, hold on, this is
(26:58):
something that you need to do before.
Or you go before you go to market in terms of Bad actors.
The other part of our earlier conversation about like, social
media and Online, safety and stuff, that's I think where it
does happen. I've done some work with, you
know, the internet crimes against children organization,
through my work, with connect safely, with neck neck.
(27:18):
I actually just got off the phone with somebody from neck
neck right before this, this conversation.
And that's where we're talking about things like sextortion.
And we're talking about the Getting of users of social media
by Bad actors. And those are like actual rings
that are meant to get financial benefit by basically
(27:40):
blackmailing people that's what sextortion is.
So I think that all of that is areally important part of any
kind of like digital Wellness conversation, and I think
schools are a great institution to be the Distributors of that
information. I don't necessarily think
schools are obligated to do it because a lot of it is not
(28:00):
necessarily connected to like what we do in school, the
business of school is academics,but I think if your school
mission is tied to that whole child approach, then you are
obligated to do it. So I think, like, if you want to
be really truly black and white about what schools do we are,
obligated to protect student data privacy, because we are
using technology in order for students to access their.
(28:21):
Our curriculum, I happen to workat a school, that's very
mission-oriented. And we talked and one of the
reasons that families decide to send their children, Here is
because they agree with that whole child Wellness approach,
that there's an aspect of their life, that's not just academic,
but athletic aesthetic, spiritual all of it, right?
As a result, we feel an obligation to make sure that
(28:44):
they're aware of those Bad actors and that they can protect
themselves, but I think as a school that's something that you
have to assess and decide. Do you feel as though you're
equipped to do that? And if you're not what resources
can you access so that you know,if it continues to come up, you
can You can address it. One more thing I would add is
that that actors are not always strangers, sometimes those Bad
(29:05):
actors within our community. Unfortunately, adolescents make
poor choices as they're trying to figure out how to make their
way through this world. They test boundaries and
sometimes they step over boundaries when they're testing
them. And as a school Community, you
have to decide what are your values around both holding them
accountable and helping them move forward in their lives when
(29:28):
they make those choices? Yes, that's that's really
powerful and my follow-up would be it term that you said is a
little dated digital footprint. Yeah.
Yeah. And understanding that aspect.
Yeah. I think a lot of people are.
I think the old-fashioned terminology is like digital
citizenship and the old-fashioned terminology that
(29:51):
goes with digital citizenship isdigital footprint.
The reason, I don't think it's not that I think like digital
citizenship is problematic. I I just don't, I don't think
it's broad-reaching enough, I think digital citizenship is
about being a good person online.
Being your true self. Like the same person that you
are in person is who you should be online.
(30:13):
And, you know, I think some somedefinitions of digital
citizenship integrate a little bit of media literacy into that,
which I think is really helpful and important, but it doesn't
get to some of the other things that digital Wellness gets to,
which Like, are you getting enough sleep as compared to how
(30:34):
much time you're spending on screens?
What are your night habits with your technology?
Are you getting enough exercise?When you communicate over
technology? What does that look like?
Is all text messaging. How much of it is video calling,
like how many hours are you spending doing that?
Who are you always video calling, with the same people?
Are they the same people that you see all day in school?
Or are they people that you wouldn't otherwise have the
(30:56):
opportunity to communicate with?Like how are you using the The
technology to do things that areopening doors for you, rather
than making your world smaller. But when it comes to digital
footprint, that aspect of digital wellness and citizenship
there is no way for us to never make mistakes with what we put
(31:17):
out there, online, whether we'readults or children and children
are going to make more mistakes than adults because that's how
they're built. That's part of growing up.
That's what we expect from them,so to expect from them, Never
put anything that's a mistake orproblematic.
Online is an unfair expectation and sets them up for failure in
(31:38):
a way that's unfair to them. Like, part of growing is messing
up and moving through life in that way.
There are some mistakes that arebigger than others and so
mistakes that crossover, think if you put, if a student, were
to post something online that crosses over into being sexist,
or racist or a threat of violence, It's or something.
(32:00):
That's very serious. Then.
Yeah. I think, you know, we need to
hold them accountable, we need to in a preventive way, warned
them against doing that, and talk to them a little bit about
the longer term expectations. And there's also services like
take it down, dot-org that can get that removed and scrubbed
(32:20):
from the internet now. But there needs to be a little
bit of a combination of accountability.
But also like, Whoo-hoo, you're having the conversation with and
if it's like an eleven-year-old like, but that's still a little
kid who's, like, making little kid mistakes.
Unfortunately, they're making iton a public scale, but we need
(32:44):
to not just hold them accountable, but take care of
them in the aftermath of that, that's my perspective.
I'm not one that's great insightand I thank you for that.
Well, wonderful carry, this has been absolutely fabulous and I
have one question because we've covered a lot of great topics
today in closing. If you could change one thing
about digital safety and wellness for parents students
(33:05):
and Educators, what would that be really good question.
What I would like to change is like more hearts and Minds than
systems that I would love for fewer people to feel afraid to
talk about it. I think, when I am on the
sidelines of the fields, where my children are playing sports
games, you know. It's pretty clear what I do
(33:27):
professionally. When you look me up online.
And so, a lot of the parents of my children's friends and
teammates are like, hey, we ran into this at home.
Like, what what should we do? And but they're not asking other
each other, they're asking me aslike the expert who they happen
to know. And I think when their child
(33:49):
makes a mistake, they're afraid to admit to other parents
because they're worried it makesthem a bad parent.
If I could change anything, it would be that we would talk more
openly about this. Because the truth is that it's
advancing so quickly that we're all figuring it out as we go and
no other generation of parents has done this before.
So I think if we could be more open with one another, when our
(34:11):
child makes these mistakes, we can better help one another move
through it as a community and myhope would be as an extension of
that, that parents would be moreopen to partnering with schools
when this happens, unfortunately, sometimes when
this happens and it has an impact on the school day.
And we as a school as school leaders, like reach out to
(34:34):
parents. And this I mean, this has
happened a couple times at my school but it my school.
I know we're not alone, parents got, of course, got reaction is
to protect their child and be like, well everyone else is
doing it too, so it's not a problem.
And it's like, well, but is thatthe value right?
Even if it's a very commonly done thing and even if your
(34:55):
child just happened to get caught, are those the values
that we've agreed to You as parents in this community that
we share together. I wish that we could again just
be more honest and vulnerable with each other about the harder
parts of this so that we can really develop creative
empowering and Positive Solutions together because those
Solutions are out there and we would get to them faster if
(35:18):
we're more willing to be open and not so afraid.
We're all human. We all make mistakes.
We shouldn't be afraid of our mistakes.
It's an outstanding point and communication again.
Communication is the key, it seems that he Everything.
Well, Carrie, thank you so much for your time today, and
insight. Once again, we'd like to thank
today's sponsor clever for supporting this episode on
digital safety. We look forward to having future
(35:40):
conversations down the road. Thank you again.
Kari, thank you. Sean on behalf of the leadership
team at kosan. Thank you for listening to this
episode of the coats and podcastto access other podcasts in the
series. Visit kosan dot org or Ed
circuit.com for complete lineup of engaging technology topics Ed
circuit. Empowers.
The voices of Education with hundreds of trusted contributors
(36:03):
changemakers and industry-leading education.
Innovators Empowers. The voices of Education with
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