#130 - Americans for Prosperity w/ Stone Clanton and Cade Yates - The County Line

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
All right Countyline congregation.
We are back and we haveAmericans for prosperity in the
building.
Today we have Mr Stone Clanton.
I've been calling him by thewrong name leading up to this,
this conversation, but I got itright there.
I got Mr Cade Yates, both ofwhich are with the Americans for

(00:26):
Prosperity Organization and,without further ado, guys, I'll
just let either of y'all kind ofgive y'all a spill on what AFP
is and the roles that y'all playin that organization.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, so like I said, afp, we've been around for a
while.
We are pretty much a.
We are one of the leadinggrassroots organizations on the
nation basis.
We have thousands of actorsacross the US that engage in
policy when it comes to ideasaround free markets, better

(01:01):
healthcare, better education,from a more, like I said,
right-leaning perspective, andit's just based on a set of
principles.
And AFP Mississippi has beenaround for since 2015.
And all of our stuff is basedhere in Mississippi.
We've got an office inRidgeline, we've got an office

(01:24):
near the state capitol and we'vegot five folks on the team.
We have Starla Brown, our statedirector, who is kind of the
vision person.
She's been with theorganization for 10 years, not
just in Mississippi, but she'sbeen in Florida she actually is
a Mississippi girl from Meridianand then myself as the deputy
state director.
So I'm more policy, I go to thelegislature, I keep the

(01:48):
communication lines ofcommunication open and then also
, you know, I'm a big likepublic speaker on healthcare and
some issue like criminaljustice, issues that we've
worked on for years and that'skind of been my role.
And then Stone and along withNathan and Steven, nathan Moore
and Steven Moore, we got twobrothers that work for us North

(02:10):
Mississippi and SouthMississippi, and Stone cover
Central Mississippi and I'll letStone cover kind of what his
job is, but grassrootsengagement director.
So we were a five five personteam.
We try to rely on each other'sstrengths and weaknesses to
really build a team that isworking towards the goal of a

(02:31):
better society, one that isrelying on individuals, being
able to recognize theirindividual talents and abilities
and keeping government out ofthe way when someone is trying
to achieve the American dream.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
So, stone, if you want to touch on your role and
kind of how that's working, yes,I'm a grassroots engagement
director, along with Nathan, whois based out of start I mean
out of Oxford, but he coverspretty much all that Northern
Mississippi area from DeSotoCounty to below Oxford, start
full and pretty much anywhere inbetween, and then his brother
is on the coast and up toHattiesburg.

(03:06):
So they he that we've allpretty much got some some big
areas.
I cover pretty much everythingfrom Vicksburg all the way over
to Meridian.
And as a grassroots engagementdirector, our job is to engage
with citizen contact.
Where Kate's job is to be aresource that's what it amounts
to is we're a resource forknowledge on sound policy.

(03:29):
He's a resource for thelegislators.
I'm a resource for theirconstituents to a degree.
We get out there, we hostevents, are we where we engage
those constituents on issues,whether it be education,
healthcare, economic progress.
We do days of action where weget out and do citizen contact.

(03:50):
Where we're doing door to doorwork, we do phone calls and
right now we're in a survey moderight now just non persuasive,
just seeing where the people areon certain issues, and it's a
very fulfilling job.
I started out as a volunteer,kate, at the time, back when I
was a junior at MississippiCollege, which was about four

(04:14):
years ago, I got kind of tiredof playing the party politics
stuff and I wanted to dosomething more.
I wanted to actually make adifference in our state, not
just take a picture with apolitician, and I got engaged
and started volunteering.
After I graduated I was a gradintern with the Secretary of
State's office in the electionsdivision, moved over to a

(04:36):
communications role for a littlewhile, and then this job opened
up and I fell in love with itand it is something that I
really enjoy doing every day.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Awesome.
So it sounds to me like, excuseme, the mission of AFP is, as a
nonprofit, to advocate forcertain policy stances on a
multitude of different issues,and those stances typically fall
within the realm of the.
Republican party or the rightleaning conservative party?

(05:05):
Do y'all associate with a partyor do y'all just independently
vow for what it is y'all aretrying to teach?

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, so we're nonpartisan, we don't, we don't
try to.
You know, obviously, whenyou're interacting in politics,
you're going to interact withthe parties at some level.
As far as like, hey, thisperson is Republican, we'll work
with them, but also withDemocrats.
I mean, we've, we've talkedwith people in that.
Again, that's why I say rightleaning, because we believe in

(05:36):
free markets, we believe inlimited government, lower taxes,
we believe that, like I said,once you get outside of the
party structure you know it's nolonger just like I have to
adhere to these, these set ideas.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
And that's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, oh no, it's.
It's a freeing thing because,like, we have principles that
that are our guiding structure,so it's more flexible than just
a platform or like a partyresource, cause, like it's not,
when you do principle basedapproach to a solution, you're
not going well.
Well, this just isn't going tosit well with with the party

(06:13):
members on the state or countylevel.
Uh no, no, we like we have to.
When we say it's a principledapproach, we're taking it from
the top to the bottom.
When it comes to we're notgoing to fall into these traps.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
A better way to say it, maybe from the bottom to the
top.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, yeah, we believe in bottom up solutions.
We don't believe in, uh, webelieve that when government
comes in and has like this topdown, heavy handed approach, um,
you know it's never going towork out well because you have
somebody far away from theproblem trying to solve a
problem.
When I, I mean, we're both fromPhiladelphia, right?

(06:51):
I don't think.
I don't think many peopleunderstand Philadelphia unless
you're from there.
Uh, people don't understand,like when I'm, when I moved to
Pizga, uh, in the eighth grade,nobody really understands living
in a single wide trailer up inthe North reservoir area, unless
you've been there and said theproblems.
I think the problems are solvedbetter from the people who are

(07:13):
experiencing the problems and sothat's why, kind of jettisoning
ourselves outside of the partyrestraints and being nonpartisan
, being principle based, we'reable to find the best solutions
while having honestconversations and not being just
cause.
A lot of times, when you'restuck in that party structure,
people just don't want to talkto you and it's like we can have

(07:35):
a conversation with anyone andanybody and we can state where
we are and we can, but we can as, as the adage always says, you
got two ears and one mouth, soyou better be listening more
than you're talking.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
So I think, to add onto that and from a citizenship
perspective, we always use thisFrederick Douglas quote that
says I would unite when theyknew what to do right and they
want to do wrong.
So if there's one issue that wecan work on with with a
legislator, we're going to do it.
If there's one issue we canwork on with with a coalition
partner, we're going to do it,because they're striving for the

(08:11):
same goals and at least thatrealm.
We are in such a dangerous area, I think, as a country right
now, with hyper partisanship.
And if you know anything aboutand I know that it's like a meme
right now, like talking aboutthe Roman Empire, thinking about
the Roman Empire every day butif you know anything about
history, what led to the fall ofthe Roman Republic was hyper

(08:32):
partisanship.
And again, I'm not sayingthat's us, but we we're treading
in dangerous waters when youget so entrenched in hating the
other person.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, we're there and I don't.
I don't know if it's.
I think we may be too far intoit to to be able to come out of
it quite honestly.
I mean, you know, just lookingat the governor's race this past
week, it was a close race,right.
But your traditionallydemocratic areas over in the
Delta, you're 85, 15 Democrat.

(09:05):
In George County, southeastMississippi, you're 85, 15
Republican.
And those are the extremes.
But those are also microcosmsof the problem at large.
And so, as as an organizationat AFP, someone who is
nonpartisan, what is y'all'sperspective on how the country

(09:27):
can decrease the intensity ofthat hyper partisanship?

Speaker 2 (09:33):
That I will say that is such a hard issue because,
believe me, over the past fewyears it's gotten.
I've seen it get much worse,like you said, and for us,
that's where our organizationreally strives to take a step
back, have open, honestconversations, recognize number
one human dignity.

(09:54):
I'll put it in terms of like my, my raising at like Sandtown
United Methodist Church and likegoing to like the bad fan of
Baptist church where I went, youknow, in those church terms.
You know, god created usequally and he created us
beautifully in his image.
And I have to, when I have aconversation with someone, I

(10:15):
have to remember that before Icontinue on, because if I don't
treat that person like theywould want, like I'd want them
to treat me, we're never goingto get anywhere.
And, and I know it's feelshopeless right now, but like,
the only way that we canactually make a difference is by
saying like, hey, I know itfeels hopeless, but we got to
have an honest conversation.
And once you're able to get downto that, that basic

(10:39):
understanding, that basicunderstanding of who people are,
because, like, I think I canidentify well with people, no
matter if they're from GeorgeCounty, Mitt County, over into
the Delta, up in NorthMississippi, south Mississippi.
We're all Miss Sippians.
We've been through a lot and Ireally truly believe like, if
we're able to come together andhave open and honest

(11:02):
conversations, we can start toreverse some of this and, slowly
but surely, come out on theother side.
We won't be unharmed.
There's going to be scars,there's going to be wounds that
are going to take some time toheal, because, I mean, I've been
called some nasty names, somerough things, by people who call
me a racist, call me whateverBoy they've taken that word and

(11:25):
just I mean it's like it has atotally different connotation
now than it did even 20 yearsago.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Oh yeah, and it's just so easily thrown around and
people, particularly thatdisagree with the far left, are
deemed to be racist, regardlessof what the situation actually
is, and so that's one of thosethings, that's one of those
insults that nobody wants totake on, nobody wants to be
called racist because, numberone, as Americans, we think

(11:59):
about the Jim Crow South, wethink about slavery, and it is
such a negative and dark part ofour country's history that
nobody wants to be associatedwith it personally or have their
behavior or characterassociated with it.
So it's very effective it is.
And the way that the Democrats,the far left people use it and
you know, insulting people andmaking them feel less than or

(12:20):
inferior, or what have you?
I think, to touch on how we candecrease the intensity of the
bipartisan or the partisannature of our politics is our
politicians are going to have toquit identifying and taking
that money from those parties.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
I'm going to say that's going to be pretty tough.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
I know it is, but that's what I believe is going
to have to happen.
There's going to have to be a.
You know, take a Donald Trumpfigure, but not associate with a
party and be popular enough.
I think JFK RFK Jr is on thattrack.
You know, the way he's beingforced to not identify with a

(13:03):
party ironically is an exampleand somewhat of a blueprint on
how our leaders can do it fromthe top and then do what y'all
are doing at the grassrootslevel, and I think if those two
can meet in the middle, thenwe'll start making some progress
.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
And I will say one other piece that I think is
crucial to any of this is Ithink right now there's a lot of
Americans who just don'trealize what's going on.
There's an uneducated level oflike, and it's not intentional.
People are trying to survive.
They're trying to, you know, dothe travel ball.
They're trying to make suretheir kids are educated, make

(13:41):
sure they got food on the table,make sure that they're able to
have fun and do their and havetheir life.
And when you start bringing uppolitics, man, it starts to get
people like I don't want to talk, I don't mix religion and
politics, I'm going to show upin my door and start talking
about it.
But I think the biggest thingis if you're able to actually
and again, holding politiciansaccountable is such a it can be

(14:03):
taken so negatively, but likeholding politicians accountable
is literally just saying likehey, I have, I have, I can go
and have coffee with my localsenator and just be like hey,
what do you think about this,what do you think about this?
You know, how can we have theseconversations?
And then also taking a fewminutes, like out of your time a

(14:25):
month, and just like what'sgoing on, like what?
Like how can I?
Because I mean these issuesreally affect people.
We talk about healthcare,education, um, regular
regulations.
I talk to my father-in-law whoowns a business down in Purvis
Great restaurant, love it.
But, like man talking to him,he's like my tax are too high,
I've got all these crazy.

(14:46):
And it's not like regulationslike food safety, it's like man,
I have to have these certainthings, these doing things.
Like it's just like man, thisguy's life is really affected by
government.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
Go ahead and give him a plug.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
Oh well, actually I will say you, you asked for some
of the best fried chicken.
We're going to have to go downto Purvis and go to the stone
house and eat some good friedchicken because like I can't go
anywhere outside of Mississippianymore and get outside of
Purvis, really, and get like thebest fried chicken I've ever
had.
So like I love Purvis, oh, it'sgreat, I love.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Purvis.
I've been in Pikiune for sometime Okay, right down the road
from Purvis and went up thereand I was teaching and coaching.
So obviously we'd play ball upat Purvis and they'd come to us,
so got to know them relativelywell.
You said it's the stone house.
The stone house, yeah, justcountry cooking and country
cooking.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, southern cuisine, yeah, country buffet.
You walk in, you get your plateand fix it right up and it's a
great time, yeah, talking aboutthe fried chicken.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
So for those of y'all that don't know that are
listening, I put up a post thispast I guess last week asking
where the best fried chicken inMississippi could be found, and
the number one answer so farthat's gotten mentioned the most
times are gas stations.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it is tough to beat, it is.
No, the funny thing is is weactually had a guy come in.
So we have an organizationthat's a sister organization.
I recall it's Concern Veteransfor America.
They work on veterans issues.
It's all veterans working onveterans care.
And when he came to Mississippi,he's a.
He's a good old boy from likeNorth Florida, served in the

(16:31):
military.
He's a.
He's a.
He's a little rough around theedges, but I like him.
And Jimmy came here and he waslike man, what's some of the
like where, where's the southernfood at?
And I was like, well, I cantake you to some restaurants and
like, I did take him to thestone house and he enjoyed it.
He loved it.
The face of like the like itwas there.
But then I said, but also,we're going to have to take you

(16:52):
to a gas station.
He's like you're taking me to agas station and I'm like, yeah,
no, you, you find some of thebest barbecue, fried chicken,
catfish, desserts, whatever youfind it at a gas station and it
is.
It's the way.
It's the way that Mississippiis just like unique.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
I think that I've thought about why it's that way,
and I think it just comes frompeople trying to make the most
out of what they've got.
So, instead of having arestaurant separate from a gas
station, well, you've got alittle bit of room over here on
the end of the store, and I feellike that's probably where it
started, yeah, and so, hey,we'll put a, we'll put a hot bar

(17:33):
in there and throw some chickenbehind the counter and do it
that way it's how KFC started.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
Is that really?
Yeah, I did not realize that.
I did not realize that.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
This is the most.
That's the best thing in theworld to know that, like the
most, one of the most famouschicken brands in the world
started at a gas station.
That just solidifies that, likeyou're right, it is like we
went to was at the Shell stationwith the main street junction
and I was like I just want some,I just want a biscuit, and you

(18:02):
know, get a little something inme before we come on here and do
a podcast.
And it's just like you said,hot box, right there in the
middle.
You go sit at the table over onthe side, you grab you a drink
and you know whatever you needand you're set and it's.
It is using exactly what youhave to maximize whatever you
can.
Whatever you can provide valuefor a customer that's looking

(18:23):
for it, and especially in someof these small towns, like that
is.
I remember some of the placesI'm trying to remember.
I lived in a is just a littlebit north of here.
I'm trying to remember, but Ijust remembered the gas station
was Woodies.
Woodies, yeah, with the pizzasticks, yeah, and it's like,

(18:45):
yeah, and so that's that's forme, like I don't remember any
other restaurant nearby, but youjust go into Woodies and you
get a pizza stick and a and aCoke and you're happy as a kid.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Absolutely.
And I remember I went to StarFull this past weekend for the
football game.
Well, for the environment, Ididn't go in the game, but I
stopped at Woodies to get gasand I got me a pizza stick on
the way through.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, it's, it's, it's how it is.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Where do y'all think the level of government that we
have involved in ourMississippians lives is at this
point?
Is it too much?
Is it too little?

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Always too much.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, I will say Mississippi is in a unique place
where I am.
I love Mississippi so much LikeI, truly like I will never
leave here.
This is my home and I'm and I'mproud of us because I know how
much we've achieved.
But when you start talkingabout the amount of government

(19:41):
on the federal, state and locallevels, I mean, and I know some
counties like I I'm not tryingto give them a pass, but like
when there's no industry in townand your only option is, you
know, maybe maybe a few places,but the county government is is
really the largest employer, thelargest employer.
And then on the the state level, I know that we have people

(20:04):
that try to cut, you know, tryto make us as lean as possible,
but we're just not there yet.
I mean, and again, there'sthere's just conversations of
like, what is the proper role ofgovernment?
And I think there's alwaysgoing to be disagreement around
that, because when you havepeople hurting, you don't want
people to be hurting, like it.
It's a natural human responseto like, try to take care of

(20:26):
people, but there is a certainlevel that is just.
That is just not a you're notable to maintain.
Like you, just if someone's not, can not, working towards their
betterment, like if they and ifthey have the ability to, if
they have the mental capacityand the ability to, and they've
been given an opportunity andlet's just say you know

(20:49):
education field, or or theyhaven't been told their entire
life, hey, you can't do anything.
You can't do anything.
You just need to be on awelfare program, like whenever
you truly empower people.
I think we can have aconversation of like how
government can operateeffectively, because I'm not I'm
not anti-government.
I think there is a place forgovernment to uphold the rule of

(21:10):
law, to have individuals.
There is a place for safetynets, because there are going to
be people out there who justcannot take care of themselves
at some level and safety netsare, are a natural part of our
society.
But again, the size ofgovernment has just not, it's
gotten out of control.

(21:30):
And then on the federal side,this is a whole different issue.
But I think the biggest problemI have is the amount of federal
money that we are taking, theamount of federal money that
they have a stranglehold over us, because, if you look at it,
every time the federalgovernment wants to institute a
policy that is not popular.
So back in the day.

(21:51):
It was, you know, and some ofthese are are good and bad, you
know.
You know, certificate of needpolicy on the federal level we
can get into that, but it wasessentially the federal
government saying, hey, to limitthe supply of healthcare in
communities so everybody canhave access, but we're not
providing too much care.
So complicated thing, but wecan get into it.

(22:12):
But the way the governmentimplemented this in each state
was saying, hey, if, if youdon't implement this, we're
going to start pulling funding.
They do it with seatbelts andsmoking, age and whatever else,
but that's how the governmentcontrols.
The federal government canreally pull strings and force,
uh, like individual states to dothings that you might not agree

(22:33):
with or the things that, like,I'm always afraid I saw guns
before I, before I did this jobI'm always afraid that
something's going to happen.
They're going to be like, well,if you don't implement red flag
laws or these are that, and AFPdoesn't work on gun gun laws.
I'm just throwing this outthere.
But, uh, we're working oneconomics.
But I really do think that thegovernment's best way of

(22:54):
controlling is by saying, hey,we're going to pull your funding
, we're going to cripple you onan issue if you don't do what we
say.
And I think for me that's oneof the greatest fears is when
Mississippi, I think, is in tuneto like 12, $12 billion from
the feds.
Um, like that we receiveannually, whenever, that's the

(23:16):
amount of stranglehold they havewhen they're, when they're
implemented into the roads, thehealthcare, the education,
everything, every single pieceof your life.
If they say jump, mississippi'sgoing to say how high and we,
we do that because we're so poor.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yeah, Imagine if we, if they right now cut off every
federal fund to the state, wewould be a a big madness, oh my
goodness.
And before we get too too muchinto the weeds of the policy
side, to understand our, ouridea of the role of government,
you have to understand that webelieve there are four key
institutions of society.
They're not always brick andmortar, they can be but there's

(23:56):
business, there's education,there's community and there's
government.
This is obviously business, theeconomy, education can look
anything from a high schooldiploma to a GED to a PhD or
anything in between, whatever aperson can use to succeed in

(24:17):
life, to prosper in lifeeconomically, because if you
don't have a good educationYou're not gonna prosper
economically.
If you don't prospereconomically you're not gonna
have good health care, you'renot gonna have good shelter,
food, etc.
Etc.
Etc.
And then finally, community,which can look like anything
from a nonprofit to just aneighborhood of in a community,
of to a church yeah, a church, acommunity believers.

(24:39):
And then finally, government,and sometimes those things can
overlap, but some, most of thetime, those things do things
best on their own.
Yeah, and I think that's kindof our view of government,
independent of the other three.
They again, they can cross overand or, you know, it could be
community, education or whateverit can be, it can be government

(25:01):
and education, but it's justsometimes they work best on
their own and that's kind of ourview of government.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah, and they can be layered on top of one another
where where, like, the layersdon't mix.
But you know, I, growing up,you know I think when it comes
to like welfare, you know that'salways the biggest thing.
I've always thought that and Ithink this has been the
perspective.
I've learned more and more isthat welfare is not best done by

(25:28):
, you know, the government,always when it's just some dude
in Washington saying, oh, Ithink these people need X amount
on a check, or this, thisamount of food, or this, or that
it is churches, communitiesgoing hey, I know what this guy
really needs, I know what this,what is really needed in these
communities.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
Bottom up stuff bottom up stuff.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
problem with that is there are people like that,
don't get me wrong but thepeople who need in that capacity
far outnumber those good soulsthat are willing to be
charitable.
So then you run into okay.
Well, if we're going to justdepend on community charity,
then we're going to be in asituation where people are going

(26:12):
to be ready to kill becausethey're starving, and so that's
where we have to.
We have to continue to try tofind that, that happy medium,
absolutely.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
And that's and that's really where, like I'm not
saying it's going to beindependent, like I said, safety
nets from the government arealways going to be part of our
lives, I believe.
But the problem is over thelast 50, 60 years, we've slowly
released a lot of theresponsibility that communities

(26:42):
business and educate, like theeducation they're numb to it now
.
Yeah, a lot of them say that'snot my role anymore, with the
government has taken that overand I think that's been the
problem.
Like I'm not saying you'rewrong, I think you're spot spot
on.
Like the number of people isgreatly exceeding what a local

(27:03):
community church especially insomewhere like a rural
Mississippi.
Yes, yes, but it has to be.
You have to have business,education, government and
community working together andindependently doing what they're
really good at and bearing thatload together as a community
and slowly but surely, creatingopportunity for individuals to

(27:28):
where there is less of it.
Like I really do think therecan be less poverty in
Mississippi, I don't think we'regoing to always be the poorest
of the poor.
If we change our mindset, if wecan actually make good policy
changes, allow individuals to be, have the best education
possible, recognize theirindividual talents, create a

(27:50):
government that is workingtowards a good system.
That is, like I said, not topdown, empowering individuals and
we're getting out of the way ofbusinesses Building and
operating and growing, creatingmore opportunity.
Because, like a lot of peoplecan can be kind of, they can
kind of be harsh on businessowners.

(28:11):
Sometimes they're like, oh,he's just got the money, he's
just got the money.
No, no, that guy created abusiness that's putting food on
your table because he took therisk.
He went out and started thisbusiness and now you've got a
job because of it and maybe youcan take those skills and open
up something else, do somethingelse.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
So when you look at education and the way we
currently have it structured,based on kids going to schools,
based on the parameters ofboundaries in which they live,
is that AFP's intention at allto give the individuals,

(28:51):
specifically the parents, morechoice and where their kids go
to school, whether it be in thisschool district, that school
district, a public district, aprivate district?
I talked with Douglas Carswellabout this.
The subject and he's for schoolchoice, basically saying, I
think, is the number was like$12,000 per pupil is basically

(29:13):
what it cost to educate a childin Mississippi on an annual
basis, and his suggestion wastake that $12,000 and attach it
to each pupil and then theguardian of that child can
determine where that money isspent.
What is, what is AFP's outlookon education, particularly

(29:34):
secondary education for ourchildren?

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah, so I will preface this by saying, like,
our team is a little split up onlike I mostly work on health
care and our state directorstarless.
She works on the educationpiece along with stone and some
other folks.
But our perspective is is eachchild is uniquely gifted to real
like.

(29:56):
We believe education needs tobe really crafted to the
individual child and I dobelieve that attaching money to
the student is probably going tobe the best way to individually
allow each child to really seekthe best education possible and
allow parents who know theirchildren way better than than

(30:17):
any big government entity, thananybody yeah, than anybody and
and so, at the end of the day,we do believe that there is a
place and then I think thesystem will be better when you
allow that child to have moneyattached to them and that money
is used for like.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
We really do believe in like making the system really
unique and it's not totallycustom to the kid, because if
they want to use that fortutoring, if they want to use
that for maybe even an extracurriculum, even an extra
curricular activity that caneventually be able to allow them
to excel in college orsomething of that nature.

(30:56):
It's all about the uniquenessand what this, this concept is
called educational savingsaccounts is, is ESA, is that's
kind of the the concept, butthat's what it amounts to.
Because, again, what I told youearlier, if you don't have a
good education in the state,you're not going to prosper
economically, and if you don'tprosper economically you're not

(31:17):
going to prosper anywhere elsein life.
I'm not saying that money makesthe world go around, but it's a
great resource to have it.
Grease is the wheel that I know.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
I ain't no doubt about that, and I mean when I
think about education and who'smaking decisions for the
children.
Who better to make aneducational decision than the
parent of that child?
For many different reasons, onmany different levels, but
primarily because that parenthas the most pride in that child
in most cases, generallyspeaking.

(31:49):
So that parent, that individualwho is has that much pride in
that human being, is going tolook out for the best interest
of that human being more thananybody else will.
I think it's blasphemous thatpoliticians and Jackson are
determining where children go toschool.
I mean over over the parents.

(32:11):
I mean I know that's probablythat's based on how communities
were being built back in the day, but we're not back in the day
anymore.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
Yeah, this is a different day and age.
That's the thing is.
A lot of times can't rememberexactly that the date in the
1800s, as was, but a lot of thisgoes back to the man, reforms
and the idea it was.
I want to say, was it a Swedishstyle of school system?
They were building Prussian,prussian Sorry, that's right,
prussian.
No, no offense to the Swedes,but but it was a Prussian style

(32:40):
of just this factory mindset oflet's, let's pump them in and
pump them out.
And I understand what they weregoing for.
They were trying to go for aneffective and efficiency model.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
However it turned out .
It really wasn't the mosteffective and efficient model.
It may have been at the time,but things have to progress.
We have to progress the hockeystick of human progress that AFP
and the stand togethercommunity talks about.
A lot that happened when theindustrial revolution.
It was just a straight line forso many years from what the

(33:11):
industrial revolution just shutup, and we have to continue to
progress as a society.
Sometimes that's kind of adirty word, but there's good
progress and there's badprogress, whatever you want to
call it.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
Well, that's another word that's been tarnished as
well.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
I mean you can't you can't say progressive without
especially a misci, withoutsomebody giving you the side.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
I'm like no, I'm not, you know.
I'm not woke, yeah, so I think.
I think that's the thing wehave to continue to find new
ways to do things better.
It's it goes back to ourprinciples of human progress,
which I know we're using a lotof buzzwords and a lot of jargon
, but it's.
It's so easy for us who havebeen working here for for two
plus years.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
Kate's been here for five years now Five in April,
yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
So it's easy for us to use this stuff, but we we see
that the principles of humanprogress are dignity, you know,
respecting your fellow man,openness, open and new ideas.
People places things open towhere you may be wrong about an
idea, then you go over to thebottom up solutions and once
people are able to find in thewhoever has the best solution to

(34:16):
the problem, there's somemutual benefit going on and
finally people are able to selfactualize and continue that.
We actually talked about it agood bit over here.
Self actualization is thisconcept that you're a lifelong
learner and your selfactualization isn't the end,
it's only kind of the beginning,to be honest with you.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
That's a Freud, that's a Freudian concept.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Yeah, is it a Freudian concept or is it Maslow
?
I don't know.
I feel like it's been.
It's been discussed byeverybody.
It's, it's something if youcontinue to do it it's.
I know that a lot of peoplewant to always call it like self
transcendence, that's more likea religious thing, yeah, but in
my, in my personal life, I seeit as it is me continuing to

(35:01):
mature in life.
I mean, do you ever fullymature, your, your wise change?
In five years, my wife is goingto be different than my wife
now.
Right, you know, if I'm married, I'm single right now.
My wife right now is you'll geton them, ladies.
Well, I got a girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
I got a girl.
Single is not the best word touse.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
So, but we, it's something that you continue to
do.
You know, my wife right now ismy career and fulfilling career,
and to be financially stable.
In five years, if I'm married,my wife is going to be taking
care of me and my wife in 10years Five kids, it'll be taking
care of my family, and so on.
You continue to look back fiveyears and like why did I do that

(35:43):
?
Why did I say that?
I thought about that, but it'sokay, because you're continuing
to progress in a good way.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yes, absolutely, and I think that's, in that scenario
that you just just described isimportant in terms of I think
it's important to write and goback and read what you've
written over that course of time, because that'll help give you
more perspective and context onwhy you did something five years
ago.
You know, you may not be ableto understand it wholly, because

(36:10):
even reading what you wrote, Imean, I'm a different person
today than I was yesterday.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
Yes, of course, and that happens.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
You know, if that's not happening, then you're
getting worse, you're gettingbetter you know, and you'd
rather be on the better side ofthat.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
I didn't mean to lose down that rabbit trail.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
No, no, no.
I think that I think it's agood place to be.
And I will say, just to back upa little bit, like I don't,
when people dive into educationand do the things that, like, we
just don't maybe agree with,which is like one side of
Spitzol model, where, like, eachkid is just like, if you, just
if you just get them to thispoint, maybe they'll survive,

(36:49):
maybe they'll make it.
I really do, I really do thinkthat kids, when given the
opportunity, when given it acustomized education, you're
going to see really greatresults.
And I think and I think that isagain, at the end of the day,
my biggest thing is is when Iwent through school, I had great
teachers I had, I had a greatprincipal who really cared about

(37:11):
me, but I feel like I couldhave had maybe a little bit of a
different trajectory if Iwouldn't have been placed in a
class that was the sitting rowsdo the thing.
I mean, it took me going tocollege and having a college
professor go hey, dude, likeyour grammar is really bad, come
by the office with me and justlike, sitting off, like this is

(37:34):
a professor making good money,having a great time, and he's
just like come by my office andsit for an hour every week and I
will work with you on basicgrammar.
That was the individual touch Ineeded.
And then I came to AFP and Imean I'm just again.
I have to watch myself becausesometimes I dog on myself and
just be like I'm just a poor,dumb kid from Mississippi a

(37:55):
group in a single wide trailer.
But I will say, since I startedwith AFP and like my
educational journey has keptgoing, I had my mentor for a
stick pen, who startedMississippi Center for Public
Policy, where Douglas is at, andthen Trey Dellinger who's the
chief of staff for Speaker Gunn.

(38:16):
Now they would, they would justlike give me back stuff and
just be like it would be bloody,It'd be just like red ink
everywhere, Just being like, hey, just rewrite this.
Where'd you go to college?
Oh, Whim Keri, Whim KeriUniversity down in Hattiesburg.
And I went to school to be apastor.
I was, it was.
I could say that, yeah, Thingsturned out a little bit

(38:36):
different, but the concept isstill there, where I just really
genuinely love people, Igenuinely want to help out my
community and I and in my heartI truly believe that when you
stick to like how people arevalued and you talk to people in
a way that they want to betreated just like you want to be
treated.
Things are going to work outand and I and luckily, like when

(39:00):
I was down there I got involvedin politics and things changed
up a little bit.
I met my wife down there.
We didn't get married incollege.
It took a few years of me selfactualizing and coming AFP and
get my life straight and andreally just leaning into some
really strong principles of likeman you're not, you're not a
dumb guy Like now.
I've met with senators andrepresentatives from federal and

(39:22):
state level and and I'm justlike I said, I'm just really
happy to be able to do what I do.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Talk to me a little bit about Medicaid expansion and
how y'all view that at AFP.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah, so Medicaid expansion and I told someone in
the car I'm like, oh man, I knowyou had somebody on talking
about it.
I'm like I hope this doesn'tevolve into like an hour long
thing about Medicaid expansion.
But first off, I am not aMedicaid expert guru Like I

(39:57):
could probably throw out numbersand they're not like they're
going to be relatively accurate,but I'm not going to be able to
do just like great on it.
I could give you names of like15 other people that I sit with
on a regular basis who can talkabout a better, a better way.
But our perspective on Medicaidexpansion is number one.
It's not going to fix theproblem if we do expand Medicaid

(40:17):
.
What is the problem?
Closing hospitals, affordable,accessible healthcare in all
communities, not just rural, notjust urban, and also a
sustainable model.
We're not in a sustainablemodel where people are getting a
quality healthcare at a goodprice and it's fulfilling to

(40:42):
their life.
I mean people just avoid thehealthcare system in general.
So with Medicaid we don'tbelieve.
Like we've seen in Arkansas andLouisiana, hospitals continue
to close even after you expandMedicaid.
There's a deeper issue going onhere.
There's a deeper issue when itcomes to how a hospital operates

(41:03):
.
What are we doing with, like,how clinics are set up?
How, like, are we doingpreventative care earlier on,
Are we working on?
There's a lot of stuff thatgoes into it, but I want to
stick to Medicaid.
So, like I said, number one, Idon't think it addresses the
problem and I think it's just abandaid that is not going to

(41:25):
lead to long-term success.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Again, we're okay with safety net.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Yeah, we're okay with safety net, so I think it's
going to be a part.
And again, like right now, alarge portion of our state is
already on Medicaid.
So adding another 300,000people I don't think we'll be
the solution that we need.
Secondly, again going back tothat federal money, people say

(41:51):
we're leaving money on the table.
That money, like we are alreadytaking a lot of money,
significantly more than otherstates, significantly more than
other states.
I mean blue states love justpounding on Mississippi saying
they send in X amount of dollarsinto the federal system but
they get three times, four timesas much back than they send in.

(42:13):
So we're hard.
I mean I get the argument I hearit every day but like there's a
certain point where we do haveto say there's no more money,
like I mean we're just.
I mean there's a certain levelthat the money's $30 trillion in
debt, like the debt clock isjust keeping on going up.
We're looking at, you know, war, we're looking at all these

(42:36):
other things going on federalissues that are.
I mean, when it comes down toit, we just don't have the money
to do it and we have to findother solutions.
Third point on it, like I said,we believe we have something
called the personal option,which is personalizing
healthcare again getting back tothat doctor-patient

(42:56):
relationship and we believe thatMedicaid, at the end of the day
, is offering sub like it'ssubpar healthcare just to just
to give it to someone to makethem feel a little bit like
they've got they've got a betterhealthcare system.
I think we can actually dobetter and like I'll take more

(43:18):
questions on Medicaid, but, likeI said, if you want to get into
the personal option, this iskind of my wheelhouse.
I really do think there areother things that we can do, but
I just don't think we have themoney and I think it's going to
be subpar healthcare and, at theend of the day, it's not going
to stop hospitals from closing.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
I hear you and I agree with a lot of those points
that you're making, and then Icontinue to think about it
further.
And then I think about it howit actually looks right now for
someone that would be one ofthose additional 300,000
Mississippians that would comein under Medicaid expansion to
be covered, and I'm thinking tomyself all right, I know what I

(43:57):
think personally about howsociety should work, but what if
I'm that person?
Yeah, at what point, you know,at what point do we sacrifice
our beliefs and our what webelieve to be true to Ensure
someone receives some healthcare?
Yeah, absolutely, you know,that's that.

(44:17):
That's where I get hung up.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
I get it and and I will tell you number one
Transparency.
Just because I'm gonna be thatguy, I have family members,
direct family members that areall that are either in that area
the 300,000, or they were theones in that are on Medicaid
right now right.
And and so like.
Believe me, it is like therethere are people that will

(44:39):
directly benefit from this.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
How would how would it not?
By the influx of federaldollars into the.
So, in theory, what wouldhappen would be we would start
accepting whatever the amount ofmoney that the federal
government alights for ForMedicaid, and so, under Medicaid
expansion, some 300,000Approximately people would now

(45:06):
Theoretically be covered.
So then the next step is okay,well, if they're covered and
their health care can now bepaid for, then you're gonna have
more customers in the healthcare system overall.
You're gonna have more peoplethat can be have compensated
care.
So therefore there would bemore cash flow, again
Theoretically, under Medicaidexpansion.

(45:26):
So you mentioned Arkansas,louisiana, examples that are
similar to us in nature, andthey have opted to expand
Medicaid, but the Hospitals arecontinuing to close.
Is that what I'm hearing?
So why is that?

Speaker 3 (45:42):
Won't you touch on and this isn't my will house
either this hate, this is muchmore his will house.
But touch on how the federalgovernment kind of eases back.
Yeah eventually just handseverything over to the state so.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
So the the way the Medicaid system works now is you
sign up for the program, thefeds cover the 90%, the, the
hospitals have said you know,hey, we're gonna cover the 10%
or whatever the amount is.
And you know, maybe the, thenumbers change, maybe the state
has to cover some, maybe.
But at the end of the day, thefeds are realizing like they

(46:19):
cannot sustain the reimbursementrates and and also will say,
like, like hospitals are, like,I know they're pushing for this
but it's only because they mightget some money.
But like, at the end of the day, every service paid for by
Medicaid is not beingcompensated at the level that
anybody, like anybody in thehealthcare system wants.

(46:41):
Like, there it, when it comesdown to it, each patient you're
bringing them into the system,mm-hmm, but it's like the, the
reimbursement rate of eachprocedure is is below what a
hospital's you know willing totake.
If someone else, we're gonnapay it.
They're just trying to get anymoney possible.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
One thing that Tate Reeves said.
Sorry to cut you off.
One thing that Tate Reeves saidthe other night.
I was watching the debate andhe made a very good point.
He said when you bring in300,000 people and you put them
on government Insurance, you'retaking not 300,000 people, but
you're taking a lot of peoplethat were on private insurance

(47:22):
Out of the private market.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
Yes, and that's and that was another point that I
want to make, and I and Iappreciate him saying that
because, again, a hundredthousand people would be taken
out of that's a lot, that's alot of people.
And then also again and I knowhe mentioned this in the debate
and a lot of people don't wantto talk about it but like again
back in the Obamacare days, likewhen he said like you can keep

(47:44):
your doctor, you can do that.
Like your, your healthcare whenyou go into a, like a Medicaid
system is going to be sub par,like it's just not, it's not
gonna be the best care Possiblebecause it's gonna be restricted
, it's gonna be restrictive.
And I know there I will saythere are other states that are
working on ideas that like Idon't think again, I don't think

(48:08):
AFP is, is ever going to be,like okay, with the idea of like
Medicaid expansion, yeah, justlike outright or anything that.
But like I think there arestates that are trying to create
a night like a opportunity forpeople to enter into like a Like
a private insurance agreementand it pay for and then like
those companies get reimbursed.

(48:29):
Like I said, it's kind of a bigit.
Medicaid is such an it likecrazy.
It's a government program, it'swildly Inefficient.
It's so crazy and, like theamount of people who like talk
about it, I'm like I don't gethow y'all spend hours and hours
a day Trying to deep dive intoMedicaid.
But, like I said, I think Ithink the biggest thing is, like

(48:50):
you said, the hundred thousandpeople coming off of private
insurance, going on to a sub paryou know Plan that's not gonna
pay hospitals what they want andthen also, once you expand, you
never can claw it back like it.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah, that's decrease .
Yeah, that's a.
That's a common thread.
I'd say 99.
I have no idea what the numbersare, but every time there's a
government policy implementedand the government starts paying
for Whatever you name it, yeah,for the individual.
Very, very few times, once thatPolicy is implemented, is there

(49:24):
a sunset on that policy.
It never goes away.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
It might have a sunset Sunset date, but it when
that sunset date comes up,they're gonna renew it because
they don't want to lose votes.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
That's why Democrats have been so successful for so
long yeah because they havegarnered the reputation through
implementing policies to pay forshit that Get people hooked on
it.
Yeah, and so what we're reallytalking about is the, the human
spirit, and incentivizing thepsychology of incentives,

(50:01):
exactly.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
I think that may be even a good segue to another
healthcare piece, because backin the 70s the federal
government implemented a policycalled certificate of need
policies, and Kate will get intothat a little bit more.
Yeah that is most definitelyhis will house.
However, the the kicker is, andhere's the segue the federal
government Decided that it wasnot a good policy and actually

(50:25):
Started repealing the idea.
How often does a federal policyget repealed?

Speaker 2 (50:30):
Not very often.
Not very often, and I will say,before we move on, I think I've
started into the segue, but,like my mind, just it, it flows
off.
When I was talking about thereimbursement rates, they're
like 90% of the government pays.
They're talking aboutdecreasing that Because they
cannot sustain it.
So we might enter into anagreement where they're saying

(50:50):
they'll pay 90%.
And again I'm throwing outnumbers that are, you know,
relatively close.
But it could over time be likeoh no, no, we're gonna have to
go back to 80%, 85, 80%, 75%.
And who's on the hook for that?
Mississippi politicians inMississippi and I don't fault
them for this will not allowpeople to lose coverage once

(51:13):
they're on it, because if theydo, they're going to lose that
seat like it's just no doubtit's just.
It's the way politics works, nodoubt.
And so that's that's kind ofthere.
But, like stone said on, whenthe federal government repeals a
program because they, they it'sthat bad.
You know it's a bad program.
And so, like, like youmentioned, certificate and

(51:35):
e-laws were implemented underthe Ford administrator, gerald
Ford, where it was essentiallyrequiring any new medical
facility to a to acquireGovernmental approval to open up
a hospital, open up a medicalfacility, use their own money,
the investments of you know,investors, whoever, and you

(51:58):
would have to go before a boardand say like, hey, I'm moving
into this community.
Is there, is there a reason whyI can't?
Is there, is there a needenough in this community for me
to have this medical facility?
And Unfortunately, the waythese like good, good intention
program.
But the problem was is theother hospitals in the area go

(52:18):
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
I don't want to compete.
I don't want to have anycompetition in my area where I
might have to lower my prices orimprove my efficiency model or,
you know, work on a differentwork on different avenues to
improve my system.
Instead, strong arm through thegovernment says you cannot do
this legally, you cannot open upthis new facility because this

(52:39):
other folks, they, they, theycan't compete with you, so so
certificate need laws we'reimpending on national level and
forced on to every state exceptfor Louisiana, because Louisiana
was like screw this, I'm notgonna do it.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
And so they were basically sticking their hand in
the private market of healthcare correct, correct.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
They were trying to control the supply.
That was, and again, I alwaystry to implement that or say
this.
I don't think politiciansalways are just evil people
trying to do evil things.
I think they were intentionallylike trying to be good and
trying to like take this idea oflike Government getting
involved in health care andsaying it's a good thing.
It's not a good thing, but Iget what they were trying to do.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
A sick example of the road to hell.
Yeah, I've with good intentionsexactly.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
And so over.
I believe it was 10 years.
They saw that CON laws,certificate of need laws,
decrease the supply of healthcare dramatically.
But the problem was it waswidespread across the US.
So luckily, president Reaganrepealed certificate of need
laws on a national level and didnot make a requirement again.

(53:48):
Like I said they were, theyheld federal funds over people's
heads and said you will notreceive these federal funds
unless you implement certificateof need laws.
So all the states did it.
Now, after the federalgovernment, remove certificate
of need laws.
Now it was up to the states.
So over the years I'm trying toremember the exact number, I

(54:08):
didn't bring in notes oranything but Several states have
started to repeal certificateof need laws on their own.
So, like Florida's repealedtheirs, texas is repealed theirs
, arkansas is working on it.
Tennessee's done a good job ofrepealing them.
The biggest example recentlywas South Carolina.

(54:31):
South Carolina went from likeand these certificate of need
laws.
I know I might not be doing agood job because they're all
individual to.
They're all individual so thesecover individual areas of health
care.
So in Mississippi they coverMental health facilities.
So if you want to open up amental health facility you got
to go before a board.
That sounds tragic.
It sounds like an imagineaddiction.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
It's like chaos.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Yeah, and it's all going before a government board
where you have to spendThousands of dollars in legal
fees.
So you're taking money out ofyour pot that you have for
health care services and you'rehaving to pay for all these
lawyers to prove to a governmentboard that you need to exist
hundreds of thousands.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
I mean it was depends on it depends on the.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
The facility was the purpose of this idea in the
first place it was.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
They thought that too many facilities were opening up
.
They thought the supply was toohigh.
Base thoughts of supply was toohigh, so they started to try to
restrict the supply trying totreat health care like to do the
oil business?
Exactly yeah, and it justdoesn't work, I think.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
I think a lot of the idea was you know if you, if you
just bought this new MRImachine, you got to pay it off.
So let's start prescribing alittle bit the way that I like
to explain it to a lot of myactivists that are not
Government officials, are notpoliticians, are not bureaucrats
and stuff like that, or in thehealth care corporate world.

(55:52):
Let's say Philadelphia had apizza hut, a Papa John's and a
Domino's and and let's say,little seizures wanted to come
in.
Well, little seizures wouldhave to apply with the city of
Philadelphia and for a Permit toopen up a new little seizures
place, well then they would Gettogether with the board of

(56:14):
pizzerias.
Well, who sits on that board?
Every pizzeria already in thecounty.
It's protectionism.
They don't want competition.
Do you think they're gonnaactually want a little seizures
coming into Philadelphia?

Speaker 1 (56:25):
And that's even more More obvious in a small town
setting, yeah, where you've hadfamilies that control businesses
for generations, yes, and alsosit in political offices, and
you really prevent the nature ofbusiness from Running its
course naturally and organically.
And once you start doing thingslike that, well then, when

(56:46):
people recognize and if we're,you know, talking on a local
level or even a state level ifyou get the reputation for
making it hard to start abusiness and expensive to start
a business, then you won't havebusiness.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Yeah, people from out of state who I mean I.
It was funny I, a member of ournational team, was talking to
us and they said, yeah, no, myhusband is trying to open up a
clinic and I can't remember thestyle of clinic or what it was
in Mississippi and he's like andshe goes.
I think he's just gonna quitbecause, like the process he
could go to, he could go toTexas, he can go to any other

(57:19):
place and open up these clinicsand it be a lot easier when
there's none of theserestrictions.
And again I want to emphasizethese are not restrictions based
off of health Safety, like it'snot because they're not being
denied, because they're.
They're just like a terriblefacility who's gonna come in and
offer subpar healthcare.

(57:39):
They are like there's, there'salready protections in place
through the Department of Healthon like standards in a medical
clinic Of what that should looklike.
This is purely based on if acommunity, if they think a
community needs and again,mental health service, addiction
services, dialysis clinics, mrimachines, pet scans, ambulatory

(58:01):
surgical centers those are oneof my favorites because you can
ambulatory surgical centersthese are clinics that are.
These are facilities that someplaces it's like cash based
services so you can get like aknee replacement for like
$20,000 less than what it wouldcost if you're paying insurance
or it's a traditional insurancebased system.

(58:22):
But I mean, there's there's 19different areas covered by
certificate need loss and so ifyou enter into an agreement
where you want to come into thestate and open up, like I said,
mental health facility, thatexists that current Exists
exists right now, right now aswe speak, if, if I want to, open

(58:43):
up.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
So why aren't we one of those states that repeals
that?

Speaker 2 (58:46):
Because you have a lot of hospitals going.
If you, if you try to, to bringin new businesses, we're going
to fail, we're gonna shut down,and I'm like, but but can't,
can't you learn otherOpportunities?
Can't that be an opportunityfor you to look at your own
business model?

Speaker 1 (59:05):
people don't want to put in the work it takes to
compete.
Yeah, the I.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
Think I've never.
I don't and you might have metsomebody.
I've never met an individual,besides a politician or a
healthcare Someone to gain fromit.
Yeah, so many game for allspecial interests.
I've never met someone that wasopposed to the idea of getting
rid of CO and accept thosepeople that either have self,

(59:30):
there's some sort ofself-interest, or they don't
understand simple supply anddemand.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
And so, and I will say I mean I've talked to folks
in the healthcare industry who,like they benefit from it but,
like, at the end of the day itdoesn't Our current hospitals,
our current healthcare systemstill has to go through a CO in
process.
It's just easier because theyalready have a supply of money

(59:56):
coming in and so they canguarantee, like, oh, I, like I
know the board members, I'vedone this before I can go
through it.
But like even current hospitals, current healthcare systems in
Mississippi Don't like the CO insystem because it's still a
barrier for them.
They still have to go throughthis and they might actually
have to compete with otherhospitals if they're moving into

(01:00:17):
a new area.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
So if co in were to be repealed, do you think that
of those 300,000 that would beestimated to be brought in by
Medicaid, expansion would havemore accessible, affordable
healthcare?

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
I believe so I'm not it to.
I mean, I think that's thegeneral idea is, if you come in
and you set up new Clinics, newfacilities, you allow
flexibility and again, I willnot say this will solve every
problem.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
There's no silver bullet.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
This is.
This is one brick, a very largebrick.
This is like a cornerstone.
What if you did both?
That I will say that is beenthe talk of some folks is, you
know, maybe you do both and forus, you know again, I think for
us Medicaid is never going to bethe answer that we want, but

(01:01:04):
again, it might happeneventually.
It might you never know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
I mean, I think you would make business definitely
make business more efficient andmore true.
You get a truer reflection ofprice.
If you took away the co in andthen if you brought in the
Medicaid expansion, yeah, IThink with those two you could
bring the most amount of peopleto more affordable and

(01:01:27):
accessible healthcare withouttotally Making 300,000 more
people solely dependent on thegovernment.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
Yeah, and I I get it like I really do hear you on
that because, like Again, that'sthe, that's kind of the things
that have been put in front ofme is how do you, how do you
kind of deal with both sides?
How do you maybe like, maybe,make a deal on it?
And I'm like, hold on, let'sjust back up Again.
For us, principle basedsolutions, principle based

(01:01:55):
approach, we don't thinkMedicaid will ever be the option
.
But the best part is I there'sa doctor, gray boys, who worked
at Mercatus Center, one of thebest.
Like just he's.
It's such an amazing mind whenit comes to healthcare policy.
Honestly, half the time when Icome in to talk to folks, I
don't talk about Medicaid, likeMedicaid comes up when it has to

(01:02:17):
come up, but, like for me, my,my main thing is it's providing
the most supply options possibleand there is a money side.
So, like again, I mentioned thepersonal option earlier.
One of the pieces to thepersonal option is come
something called HSAs and FSAs,health savings accounts and

(01:02:38):
flexible savings accounts, andthose are.
You take pre-tax money.
So my paycheck I divert $300 orno, not $300, lord, I think
it's like $90 or something perpaycheck to this account to the
optional optional, optional, andthen once that money's in that
account, it's exclusively usedfor healthcare.

(01:03:01):
And there's actually a bill onthe federal side where it's
actually raising them out.
Because I think you can onlyhave like $3,000 in a health
savings account and and I don'tmean to get in the weeds here
but HSAs, like they roll overyear to year.
Fsas, flexible savings accountsexpire at the end of the year.
So I've got like $700 a monthso I'm gonna go buy like first

(01:03:23):
aid supplies, medications, maybea new pair of glasses, and it's
all used on like medicalexpenses.
So if you're, that's one wayyou can actually increase the
amount of money that people aregetting, like those, the working
folks of Mississippi.
The federal bill would increasethat amount to $10,000.
Why is a bill needed to do that?

(01:03:45):
Because the federal governmentlimited the amount of money that
could be in that savingsaccount Because they were trying
to watch how much tax money youwould get back in these.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
But from a oh, so there's their tax Implications.
If you are to, yeah, I meanyou're using say, or if essay,
you're using your tax dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
You're using some of your or pre-tax dollars.
So it would pay in anyway.
Yeah, so you're.
So your paycheck, your pre-taxamount, that's, that's the
amount of money that you get topull from.
I say you don't pull from itpost-tax.
So it is helpful, I think, toraise that to $10,000.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
And there's another piece where Wouldn't most people
just say, okay, I'm not giving,I'm giving all my giving, all
my tax dollars to my HSA?

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
That's some people would do that, like I Can't
afford to do that.
Where I can't, like I don't, Idon't do the like $3,000 max
because, again, my FSA expiresat the end of the year but
through this year on my FSA Ihave not paid outside like that
money set aside already.
So like I've got $700 left andI've been to the doctor probably

(01:04:51):
like once a month.
They're like my wife goes tothe doctor, her, her medications
are covered, my medications arecovered.
Like it covers a Significantamount of money that I have to
pay to my health care bills.
And I broke a rib a few yearsago on a slip-and-slide because
I was a moron and so like $300for a for an x-ray.
Like I use that money for that.

(01:05:12):
I mean it.
It's really that's the best,that's the best way to have
individual like an individualplan that works for you on top
of my insurance.
So it's like insurance on topof that.
And and another piece that Ihope that we can get passed on
the federal level is there'ssomething called direct primary
care.
Yeah, direct primary care islike it's the old school system.

(01:05:34):
It's like a doctor.
You pay him $50 a month as asubscription based service and
you can go to that doctor, likeonce a month, twice a month, how
, whatever the agreement says,and that doctor has Prescription
capability.
He has the ability to some ofthem have their own pharmacies,
their own lab work.
There's actually a doctor inFlorida who, like, operates with

(01:05:55):
the hospital.
That's a whole differentsituation.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
If I were a doctor, that I have zero idea of how to
run a doctor's office, none, buthere, in that model, you know,
subscription based model, whichI mean are all of our
technologies on subscriptionbased models exactly, and I mean
I think that would be a wholelot easier from a billing
standpoint to Manage and controldoctors literally like that run

(01:06:19):
these clinics.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
They it's literally like they might have someone
that does their appointmentKeeping, but they don't deal
with insurance.
They don't deal with insuranceat all.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
They like give you a list of like.
It's like you walk into afast-food restaurant and it's
like x-ray this is how much itcosts.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
It's a perfect system and the reason I brought that
up is because on the federallevel it is legally not allowed
to use health savings accountsand flexible savings accounts.
You're like healthcare money topay for those subscriptions.
That's ridiculous to me, thatlike I can't take healthcare
money that I put aside and Payfor this service, that is my

(01:06:57):
healthcare.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
But most doctors are not going to turn away insurance
patient, medicare, patients,because there's too much money
being left on the table likethose, those, those dollars,
those people that have thosedollars.
They're gonna just go somewhereelse and so like, if I'm not
taking those, if I'm not dealingwith insurance, if I'm not
taking whether it be private orpublic then Ultimately, at the

(01:07:21):
end of the day, they're gonna,they're gonna lose out on money
and, to my understanding, Idon't think there's a
requirement for direct primarycare doctors To like not not
taking not take insurance again.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
I might be completely wrong but to my understanding I
don't think there's like anexclusive agreement where they
can't, but it is a lot ofdoctors in that system have
gotten tired of the medicalsystem as itself.
Oh, I'm sure you have to hireand that's the reason I brought
up the doctor in Florida likethis guy.
He partnered with the hospitaland Again, con laws were a big

(01:07:54):
factor in this and a lot ofother things.
But this hospital literallydoes all their health care,
health care services throughthis guy and everything internal
.
Those employees of thathospital pay zero dollar or like
five dollars a month orsomething for health care and
they've reduced their overallcost of being a health care
system because they're nothaving to do the same paperwork,

(01:08:17):
the same crazy system ofinsurance on the internal system
that has cost them so muchmoney over the years.
So, like I said, it's thepersonal option.
The brick laying that we aredoing with health care is it's
CON repealing CON to allowflexibility within the system
Health savings accounts sopeople can have more of their

(01:08:39):
money to spend on health care,and flexible savings accounts
making sure direct primary carecan receive dollars from those
health savings accounts but,also not be squished by
government, because sometimesgovernment could come in and try
to squish licensed doctors fromdoing their job, which is
ridiculous to me.
But then also you have thetechnology side.

(01:09:01):
You have telehealth.
I mean telehealth these days isdoing incredible things, not
only in like mental health.
It's so nice.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
I do it, I do it, it's great.
I talked to my therapist viaFaceTime.
Yeah, and she's in Denver,colorado.
I met her.
I found her when I was in NewOrleans we were seeing face to
face and she moved to Denver andI was like and it works, let's
do this.
You know, let's just keep doingit like it is, and it's so nice
not having to go, you know to,for here it would be to Meridian

(01:09:30):
or Jackson.
You know that's a, that's awhole day, that is, whereas now
you know, if I've got an hoursession with her at 11 o'clock
in the morning, I can take lunch, do the meeting online,
facetime, and then I've stillgot all that time before 11
o'clock that morning Exactly,and then got my whole afternoon.
So it's.
It allows for a whole lot moreflexibility and efficiency in

(01:09:53):
one schedule when you can justhop on the damn phone or
computer or whatever and carryout your appointment that way.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Yeah, and I mean Dr Gray voice again.
He told a story about the.
I think it saved his life.
It was either him or a familymember of his where, like, his
son was on FaceTime with him hisson's a doctor and he said, dad
, you don't look good, take outyour phone.
And he had a device that heinstalled on his phone to read

(01:10:21):
his, his heart and he just putit on there and he was having
like a heart attack at themoment.
And so his son was like, get tothe hospital now.
And it was again.
That might not be always thecase, but it was because, like
when you have a medicalprofessional on the other end of
the phone with a device that'spaired to your phone that you
can monitor, like that's justone tiny, tiny example At one

(01:10:44):
point.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
at some point it's going to turn into.
They won't even have to be ableto see us Exactly Well, we're
going to have something in ourbody and they're going to be,
able to monitor it from remotely.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
I don't think you might believe they're going to
be like no, we're not going toput anything, but I will say, I
mean the phone already is there.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Yeah, it pretty much.
It's just not inside, but Imean without the phone, like I
mean, businesses are listeningto us, Governments listening to
us.
Everybody knows whateverybody's doing on some level.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
On some level, but yeah, I think the technology is
growing so immensely, so fastly,and and like there's like UMMC,
I know that they have like anentire wing developed for
telehealth.
So I mean telehealth isbecoming a big issue and we want
to make sure that individualscan access telehealth.

(01:11:32):
And then I'm missing anythingelse.
I'm trying to remember, butlike there's a lot there's just
like if you go to thepersonaloptioncom like.
If listeners want to learn more,there's a personaloptioncom
that like gives them the wholelist.
Oh, another thing we want to goback to doctor on hospitals,
like not not requiring that, butlike right now doctors can own

(01:11:53):
hospitals for some reason.
Like I'm, like I didn't evenrealize this was a thing and and
so, like now we want to go backto like so who owns the show of
the general, for example?
So I know you brought that upthe other day and I should have
looked it up, but I mean, Istill haven't found the answer,
I think.
I think it's probably like acounty board that set it up,
because I mean it is a count Ibelieve it's County on hospital.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
So, like you say that , but basically private doctors
came on hospitals.
To my understanding that islike an Okshner or a Rush.
And there I mean there are.
I mean, those are all bigcorporations, corporate
hospitals that are owned or atleast corporate run entity.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
Yeah, and, and we really do believe that, like,
health care should be morepersonalized, because right now
and again, the health insurancebusiness is a huge thing and,
and I don't want to, you know,disrespect them because, like,
they offer the service andpeople pay for the service, but,
like, because of the incentivemodel that it is like, just push

(01:12:52):
people through, like you onlyget this amount of time to
diagnose this.
You, when you come in, you haveto, you have to have a stated
purpose of coming in.
All the referrals, all thecraziness, it's just like it's
we've done.
We've done the research where,like 70% of Americans believe
the health care system is broken, 80% believe that they don't

(01:13:14):
receive personalized health care.
They don't believe that theyare receiving the health care
that they enjoy.
Um, and I mean, I have a greatdoctor that I like and I enjoy
going to see him, but like thehelp, the actual, like health
insurance side, and all thebilling and the paperwork and
all the you never know what'scovered like price transparency
and they just asked too manyquestions with, like man I was,

(01:13:35):
this is going to get.

Speaker 3 (01:13:37):
This thing will get nasty.
Maybe it is, but I was beingstupid again and last year I was
running barefoot playingfootball outside and I put all
my running weight on one big toeand I did not break my toe.
I don't think I did.
But eventually not just a fewmonths ago my toenail finally
come off and I heard it so badlyI couldn't do it myself at

(01:13:57):
first, like I was going to needsomebody to help me.
So I got on the phone.
I was emerydian and it was just.
I was in the hotel room and Istumped my toe and I called.
I called uh, there was athere's a few different
podiatrist over there and theyjust started to ask me all these
questions.
I didn't have my insurance cardon me.
I usually always carry it, butI didn't have it.
I just hung up on them and doneit myself.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
That's, that's not what we need to hear.
That's.
That's the did you break outyour Leatherman and just not
just country boy man.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
Well, once you get to a certain I've had that happen
multiple times.
I've had multiple toenails falloff throughout my life on
either foot multiple toes oneach foot and it can get to a
point where it just falls off onits own yeah, like if it gets
so rotten and nasty Like youhave the other toenail growing
up behind it.
It was like that, not but itbut it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:47):
But it wasn't ready to come off and I had stumped it
real bad and it was a bloodymess, but that's too much.
But I had to say that becausewe're it's.
They asked me too manyquestions Like why do you need
to know everything about my life?
Can I just come in and pay witha card for somebody to take my
like maybe like numb it up andwell, yeah, I'm like do do what

(01:15:09):
the podiatrist does.
I don't know, that's just that.
I don't know, that's just that.
It's a racket, it's a racketand a ruckus, it is yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
You know they, they know that at its core, I believe
people who have implementedthese policies and these ways of
doing things recognize thateverybody, on a certain levels,
got to have health care yeah,got to have health care services
.
And so I believe they figuredout particularly the insurance

(01:15:35):
companies how to make the mostmoney off of it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
And you know, it's the mafia dude, no, no, it is.
Well, I will say this like forme, the biggest problem I have
is the fact that, like hospitalsand insurance companies, both
like know how to run the system.
No doubt, and I, and I get it,though like, I get that like
making money is a requirement inthis.

(01:16:01):
Like, you're not doing this outof the kind Like, okay, you
might have, like, you havecompassion, but to like build a
building, have the materials todo it safely, you have to make a
profit at least to sustain themodel Like like that's why we're
against single payer systems,because because over over time,
you start to see governments andand healthcare systems start to

(01:16:22):
decide who lives and dies whenin a single payer system, and so
they like.
That's why we fight against.
This is because we see the waittimes in Canada.
We see the wait times and likethe like the subpar healthcare
in parts of the world thatyou're like no, this cannot work
if you don't have a systemthat's based off the marketplace
and innovations and and whenyou look at it, I mean there was

(01:16:48):
a.
There was a fight last yearbetween like UMMC and Blue Cross
, Blue Shield yeah, I rememberthat.
And it's like the hospitaldoesn't like they want to charge
this, but the insurancecompanies don't want to pay this
because at other places they'rethey're paying less and it's
like, yeah, insurance in generalis a necessity, Like if you are

(01:17:08):
going to consider yourselffinancially secure.

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
it is a requirement.
However, at its core, it is ashiesty ass business.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
It is Well and the thing.
But also the thing is issometimes we've seen the
hospitals jack up the pricebecause they know they can pay
it.
They know they know theinsurance company will not push
back when you say, hey, I needto charge it.
And that's why, like the MRI,like the equipment piece to see
when it's so important to mebecause, like in Mississippi, an

(01:17:41):
MRI costs X amount of dollars,I can go to Louisiana, I can go
to Tennessee, I can go to otherplaces and get an MRI for
significantly less becausethey're just everywhere Every
like.
There was a doctor in Virginiathat fought Virginia the CON
laws for years, years and yearsand years just to have an MRI

(01:18:04):
machine in his, in his clinic tooffer a better service to his
patients, and they would notgive it to him.

Speaker 3 (01:18:11):
And asked you sitting there right.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean he's.
Is that?
Are you referring to that videothat?

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
we show Maybe yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
But I mean the thing is is the system is broken right
now and people know it.
People know that there's and,like again, I will never say
that any of our policy solutionsare the silver bullet, the, the
one, the be all end all tosolve poverty, world peace and
give everybody healthcare.

(01:18:40):
But I really do think if youremove CON laws, if you up the
HSA, if you allow doctors moreopportunities and also nurse
practitioners and this is wherethis, where doctors get a little
antsy, like I get it, but likeI truly believe that nurse
practitioners and physiciansassistants should have ability

(01:19:03):
to practice to the full scope oftheir ability and full practice
authority.
I don't know if you're familiarwith this, but it's essentially
like the restrictions have beenreduced over the years, but used
to, when you were a nursepractitioner, you would have to
set up an agreement with adoctor to where you'd pay this
doctor like $5,000 a month.

(01:19:24):
You would set up your ownclinic and the doctor reviews
maybe a certain amount ofpatients every year to make sure
, every month.
So you're not like doinganything ridiculously harmful
and with that also you could notbe outside of a mile radius.
I can't remember what the mileradius is now, but it's like 70,

(01:19:45):
at one time it was like 75miles.
You can't be away from thatdoctor, even though in today's
world you know nursepractitioners could operate in
California and a doctor in NewYork could, could evaluate the
patients and it would beperfectly fine, because the
doctors are not coming in andlooking at the patients you know
directly, one-on-one, liketrying to figure out what's

(01:20:07):
wrong with this patient.

Speaker 1 (01:20:08):
So, with the nurse chart, the nurse practitioner
profession, was it created toalleviate the demand, the high
demand, off of actual doctors, Ibelieve.

Speaker 2 (01:20:19):
so I mean it's.
I mean I mean anytime you'regoing to have someone in a in a
healthcare system that is doingthat, like you said, relieving
some of the pressure.
Again, a doctor there's onlylimited amount of doctors it
takes because you can't make,just like the standards so low
for doctors, but just because wehave more, the best way to do

(01:20:41):
it is to have specialized nurses, physicians, assistants attain
a higher level without having togo through the whole doctorate
program to alleviate some ofthose.
Now, again, there's thepushback from the doctors where
people say it's dangerous.
People say that they don't,they don't trust nurse
practitioners.
I'll tell you, I think thatrural communities really do need

(01:21:04):
nurse practitioners.
Because, again, these doctorsagreements of like the $5,000,
I've seen a lot of nursepractitioners.
I've seen, like I've talked toseveral, like a lot of nurse
practitioners, not just like 10or 15.
Like we're talking hundreds ofnurse practitioners about like
hey, what does your agreementlook like?
Well, you know, the doctorlooks at like one chart or three
charts or 10 charts every month, and then that's kind of it and

(01:21:26):
I really don't hear anythingfrom them outside of that.
But those doctors get the fivegrand you pay your agreement,
but that's to be legal, becauseif you don't do that you're not
legal, so you can't operate.
So you have to have that system.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
So do you think that requirement should be eliminated
?

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
I think the it should at least be alleviated.
I think I think the thedefinitely the requirement of
the distance to be alleviated,but also there's a certain piece
of this that like there arefederal and state requirements
that don't allow nursepractitioners to practice their
full training.
So if you're trained to dosomething and and like I don't

(01:22:04):
think they're a label to likecut people, yeah, like I think
that's like the big line is,like like there is no cutting
people.
And once you, once you get tothat line, anything below that
line, anything below like areasonable standard of training,
like if you're trained to dosomething, you should be able to
, if you're approved to beproficient, if we trust you

(01:22:25):
enough to put you know, injectpeople with something or give
people medications.
I mean, nurse practitionershave a full, have a lot of
already authority already, butif they're trained to do
something, we should be able togive them that.
And then also we shouldalleviate, maybe after a few
years, maybe after time this hasbeen thrown out as well that
like sometimes if you allow anurse practitioner to be under

(01:22:48):
that agreement for like fiveyears or a certain amount of
hours, where that doctorobserves them like a training
issue, like in a training period.
After that they can open aclinic wherever they go.
So because again it is going tobe more cost efficient for
rural communities to have anurse practitioner rather than a
doctor, try to come in and payoff all their student loans in a

(01:23:10):
rural community.
It doesn't matter how big theirheart is, like like there's just
some communities that won'thave a doctor in them but a
nurse practitioner, setting up aclinic might be the best
solution.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
Yeah, I think I've lived in a couple of different
rural communities throughoutMississippi and I've seen
evidence of those nursepractitioners being present and
I think they do a great service.
I think they serve a great role.
Where does Americans forprosperity?
Is it Americans or AmericaAmericans?

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
for prosperity.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
Americans for prosperity.
Where does the policy?
What's the policy temperatureon taxes?

Speaker 2 (01:23:51):
So this is going to be an area where it's going to
be a little rough and we'll makeit through it.
So our biggest thing is webelieve that taxes should be
reduced when it's possible andwe believe in the hierarchy of
taxes.
So like income tax is the mostegregious, because you're taxing

(01:24:13):
someone on their work, likeyou're really just putting the
screws to somebody that's goingout there and really working
hard, and then under that youhave property taxes because you
own an item and you continue topay.
You know there's taxes on,there's certain taxes on
businesses that I'm trying toremember the inventory tax.

(01:24:33):
So like you have an inventory,that you have something that
sits in your inventory for ayear yes, bullshit.
You have to keep paying andwe're like I literally have a
guy that has a desk that hisgreat-great-grandfather bought
in like 1901, that he's paidtaxes on.

Speaker 3 (01:24:48):
It's ridiculous and we're like no, that's ridiculous
.

Speaker 2 (01:24:52):
And then you keep going down to use tax where,
like that's where we think ourtax structure is like the most
efficient is when it's a broadtax base.
That is, you know, sales tax.
You know sales tax is perfectlyfair to help fund a system.

(01:25:12):
Because, again, we're notanti-government.
We do believe money has to comein to pay for government at
some level, and it doesn't, youcan't just print it out of
nowhere, so there has to bemoney coming in.
So, again, our the most fairtaxes are use tax, because it is
again there's sales tax everyyear equals to a very small

(01:25:33):
amount compared to, like, howmuch you pay into feds or into
the state on income tax.
But I will say a caveat to allthis is in Mississippi right now
, like I want to see the incometax eliminated.
I think that will be best forMississippi to see the income
tax fully eliminated, because itcan.
It puts us on a better level tocompete with places like

(01:25:55):
Tennessee.

Speaker 3 (01:25:57):
Oh, and really we would be the first state to
fully eliminate income tax.
Yeah, that did not have, likeFlorida, texas, they never,
they've never had one.
Yeah, exactly, tennessee isit's only for, is it,
individuals over a certain age,something like.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
I can't remember, they don't say they haven't they
?

Speaker 3 (01:26:16):
they like to.
Maybe it's a dig at ToryVennable on them, but just as a
joke, but yeah they still havean income tax of some sort, yes,
of some sort.

Speaker 1 (01:26:26):
So so, like I said, so what's the hang up here?
Well, why can't we get it donehere?

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
This is where the amount of money that's in our
state budget.
Like when you cut taxes, youhave to reduce government
somewhere, right?
So right now, our three biggestpieces that are kind of the the
three biggest areas that areconsuming the most money in
Mississippi are Medicaid,education, education and Lord

(01:27:01):
stone.
What am I?
What am I missing?

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
infrastructure yeah right.

Speaker 3 (01:27:04):
Yeah, it's an infrastructure.

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
Thank you, I think we've been on this catch a
little bit.
This is um, but yeah, those arelike the three main areas that
take up the predominant amountof money.
So, like, do you cut?
Like, where do you cut?
Do you cut on roads?
No, like, like people alreadysay, our roads are not good
enough, so you kind of keepgoing, you could increase taxes

(01:27:25):
elsewhere.
That and that.
That is where the conversationis being held of.
And again, these areconversations not in AFP, but
conversations on a general level.
Sure, sure.
Where do you, do you raise salestax?
Do you go to like a 9% salestax?
Well, people don't really likethat.

Speaker 3 (01:27:44):
Especially people who have, who are no longer paying
in income tax.
Yes or yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:27:50):
yeah or or no.
Yeah, no longer paying certaintaxes.
Yeah, and so, like you're at apoint where, like, you have to
broaden the base.
Generally, no policies perfectyeah.
Yeah, you're always gonnanegatively impact somebody's
lives when it comes to no doubt.
Yeah, I mean, that's inevitableand and also when you do have
like.
Again, I'm a big fan ofeliminating the.

(01:28:11):
The tax on on a Inventory, likeinventory, is a big thing for
me.
I'm like that.
That's a big thing forcompanies to look at when
they're moving into Mississippi.
Do they have to pay inventoryevery year?
Some people want to eliminatethe grocery tax but at the end
of the day, when you eliminateall these taxes, you have to

(01:28:33):
either make cuts or find themoney somewhere else and and at
the end of the day, like ifwe're gonna eliminate Inventory
tax or not inventory income tax,we either have to broaden the
base and and add taxes on to,like sales tax, or we have to
cut, and I don't think anybodyAnybody's willing to do either

(01:28:54):
right now.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
Well, I know every county in the state that's
currently dry Could go wet andincrease their sales tax without
having to increase taxesanywhere.
Yeah, you know, I mean thereare creative ways that people,
that we can do this, yeah, but Ithink often what happens is, in
that case, particularsomebody's front for religion

(01:29:18):
and how they're viewed in thecommunity.
Is it trumps Doing what wouldmake the most money, even though
it you know somebody If you?
It's so odd to me that in thecounties Primarily, yeah, the
places that are dry, it'soutside the city limits, yeah,
of the city in that county it'slike the county is holier than

(01:29:40):
thou or some shit.

Speaker 3 (01:29:41):
I don't get it.
Well man, Mississippi's aquote-unquote red state.
It's, I think it's a socialissues.
Everything else is up fordebate, unfortunately, yeah you
know, but that that plays intoit a lot, I think yeah and I,
yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:29:56):
I think there's other ways of being creative when it
comes to increasing revenue.
And the other side of this is,if you do the math, if you look
at the math and I think thegovernor, the, the current
speaker, speaker gone, have bothmentioned this but, like if we
would have eliminated income tax10 years ago, mm-hmm.
On like a step down methodwhere, literally, because when

(01:30:19):
you eliminate income tax, you'regoing to see the economy growth
for sure, and and so if youslowly eliminate over time,
while increasing revenue Frombusinesses coming in,
individuals coming back,individuals staying here, mm-hmm
.
If you created an incentivemodel, that's better again 10

(01:30:41):
years ago, well, I guess it was12 years ago now when they were
doing this because this was theoriginal income tax fight.
If we would have eliminated 12years ago the income tax, we,
like, we would have eliminatedincome tax and still had a
surplus, like we would havestill been in a good place
financially.
But they didn't do it becausethey were afraid to really put

(01:31:02):
themselves out there.
But I get it, because when youhave perrs, the, the public,
employees, retirement system,mm-hmm.
When you have, you know,medicaid, the talks of Medicaid
expansion, there will be money.
That's that has to come out ofthe state budget.
When it comes to that, when youtalk about Fully funding public

(01:31:24):
education, when you talk aboutroads, again, mississippi has to
find creative ways, and that'swhy this business piece to us is
very important eliminateregulations, try to get to a
better business environment,create a better education system
that's not just like hey, kidssitting a row, we're gonna give
you exactly enough to make itthrough life and if you get a

(01:31:47):
few accelerated classes, great.

Speaker 1 (01:31:50):
So what would that model look like?
It's not the factory or prisonmodel as some people call it, so
it is.
Would be some, some approachesor Structures that y'all AFP
would consider, or tout forimplementing so.

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
So there's opportunities of micro schooling
, so you're getting smallerclassroom sizes and each
individual student can get veryspecialized.
You know, care in thoseintentional, in those
intentional schooling systemswhere decreasing the student to
teacher ratio, yeah, and so youhave like for me, my like my
teacher would have seen in me Ihave a place in public policy.

(01:32:28):
I have an interest inMathematics in the business
world, not in the geometry world, not in engineering, but in
like I would look I could do,probably not accounting, but I
could do like business mathpretty well.
And then also there's someother areas of like philosophy
and literature that I would havefound very interesting, that I

(01:32:48):
think would have done better.
And so there's micro schooling,there's home schooling, which I
Know.
There's some, you know, issuesof like the homeschool community
, like people don't think theysocialize.
I have some amazing people wholive in Philadelphia who their
kids are some of the brightest,most socialized amazing kids

(01:33:08):
when I get to see them, becauseI don't get to see them that
much, but like there's so manyamazing kids that are coming out
of the homeschool system thatare getting a higher education
Earlier on because they're justgetting that individualized care
.
But also, like stone mentioned,you have online schooling, so
there's there's areas where youmight not get a Physics teacher
in a local community, but if youdid like a Tele-session or a

(01:33:33):
tele-class, like a online classfor a community college for
physics for someone in likenight 11th or 12th grade, you
can actually find that onlineand use that money to pay for a
student to receive that ifthey're interested in physics.
Again, these are all like justrandom examples.
Yeah, one of the.
One of the ways we can cut downthe cost of college is

(01:33:57):
Continuing to provide morehigher level College courses to
kids when they're in high schooland I will say we actually
pushed for that a couple yearsago to have a More efficient
system when it comes to dualenrollment, because dual
enrollment is really dependenton what county you're in right

(01:34:18):
now, like there's not access.
Yeah, access, but we have thelargest community college system
in Like I believe in the nation, in the nation and and so when
you're dealing with that, it'slike man, why can't every
student access this?
There are students in Virginia.
We talked to them.
Starla actually has.

(01:34:39):
Our state director has a familymember that received his
associate degree the same daythat he graduated high school.
Yeah, and I'm like holy cat.

Speaker 1 (01:34:47):
Yeah, like that can be done.

Speaker 2 (01:34:49):
It can be done here and it's and it's just because,
like the system, like we have touse Policy to implement
programs that allow for a systemto be statewide, to make sure
that each individual child canreceive that, and Also but
there's some concessions youhave to make with community
college, and that's where policygets messy is you know, you

(01:35:11):
have to take into account theplayers in each system and try
to bring them together.
Yeah and have a conversation,and so that was, that was like
my first year working under thedome, or maybe it was the year
before I started working on thedome and it was like it.
I mean, it's just crazy howmany players like I missed out
on a lot of conversations aroundit.

(01:35:31):
But, like, I really do thinkthere are places where dual
enrollment, a robust educationsystem, but also breaking that
model of like the idea thatevery student has to sit in a
classroom X amount of hours aday to make it work I don't
think that's the case.
I think home schoolers, microschools, private schools you

(01:35:52):
know some charter schools thathave tried unique things Magnet
schools, their schools inFlorida and some other places
that are specifically designedfor when a student reaches a
certain level in their educationand they won't and they know
they're going into, like, Ithink, warren Central does it
too.

Speaker 3 (01:36:10):
Oh, is it like a River School?
I can't.
They have like different tracks, like if somebody's like really
interested in math and buildingthe engineering, they have some
there like social science.
I have some that are morearctic.

Speaker 2 (01:36:22):
I mean, it's, it's all there are some schools that
are in like, like I mentioned inFlorida, that are like Naval
schools, so like not Navy, butlike schools that are dealing
with shipbuilding, navigation,all the things you need.
They start that really earlybecause those kids already know
like, hey, I'm passionate aboutbeing on the sea, I'm passionate

(01:36:43):
about working in the naval orin that like In the seafaring
trades, and I can go ahead anddo that.
There's there's conversationsaround, like you know, nasa,
engineering, all those.
I think there's a place.
And also, again, I went toPisgah when I know there were
kids that like, honestly, moretraining in that FFA, more

(01:37:04):
training in the, in the, theshop classes getting kids to a
welding career.
I mean I know it's been pusheda lot more where like people
like I think everybody shouldjust get more plumbing and
welding degrees, yeah, but likeit's overused these days, but it
is, it still has a place.

Speaker 1 (01:37:19):
It's still very relevant and, yeah, having
having spent some time in theindustrial sector, it's a need.
Yeah, anytime you find thehighest performing company that
gives the highest qualityservice.
They have certified, qualifiedplumbers, electricians,
craftsmen, so forth and so on.
The ones that don't perform atthe very high level, they don't.

(01:37:43):
You know they're.
They're people, just aren't asgood.
So my point being that if youput yourself in a situation to
where you are one of thoseskilled craftsmen, skilled
workers, there is a huge demandfor that.
Yeah, and good companies arewilling to pay a premium to have
those people on their team andprovide incentive packages to

(01:38:04):
attract and keep those people.
As it pertains to education,it's way outdated.
It's way outdated.
We've given it.
It looks like we've given itzero thought in in terms of how
can we modernize our educationalsystem.
The state testing is yeah, it'sstupid.

Speaker 2 (01:38:25):
Okay, I scored it advanced on my on my English
exam and, as you and I mentionedvery open, I had to take
grammar remediation for mycollege.

Speaker 1 (01:38:34):
Well, all it was.
It was, it was a deluded.
It's a glorified reading test.
If you could read andcomprehend, you could pass the
history.
You could pass the English, youcan pass the.
Well, I guess there is areading tested in there in
actual reading test.
So I mean we need to look at notnot every, I mean the the
spectrum of ability, yes, and ina school across kids, is wild.

(01:38:59):
Yes, it's wild.
So the fact that we're gonnagive each kid this one structure
To they all have to take thisone test to prove that they can
go on to the next phase of life,like I think it.
I think it limits criticalthinking.
I think it limits one pursuingone, being able to pursue what

(01:39:21):
they're interested in.
And Y'all know just as well asI do, testing Gives kids extreme
anxiety.
Yeah, because they are scaredto fail.
We're all scared to fail, but Idon't think putting that much
emphasis on one test is theanswer to having a well old

(01:39:44):
education system.
Exact, at the end of the day,we have to give the number one.
We have to give the power tothe parents, yeah, and ensure
that those parents are engaged,exactly and, I think, the way to
get them engaged is give themthat power exactly and
individual responsibilitiesAlways gonna be a huge piece.

Speaker 2 (01:40:03):
Yeah, and I will say, another factor to all this in
the education piece isenvironment, not just at the
home level, but, like I have agood friend of mine.
He's an amazing guy, went toOle Miss law and is now doing a
very successful career.
But he tells me if I would havehad to stay in the school

(01:40:25):
environment that he was placedin because of his county and
thank God he had a Family friendwho took guardianship of him
and moved him to a better schoolhow sad is that.
Like he was gonna be in aschool where he's gonna be
bullied, where he was gonna,where he couldn't, he was in
survival mode.
He had no time, no place toreally dig in and I think he

(01:40:47):
ended up being valedictorian atthat school.
He pissed off some some girlprobably.
You know, or the girl that wasthere.
That was gonna be back toTorian but I Hope he didn't get
mad at me sharing part of hisstory.
But, like I said, I I think theenvironment is one piece,
because we've seen parents inother states Literally risk

(01:41:07):
going to jail.
Hmm, one lady actually did get,you know, get taken to jail
because she moved her kids intoa different district because her
kids were gonna be bullied andbe in a harmful environment and
Even if it's not gonna be aharmful environment.
I'll give you the right one.

Speaker 1 (01:41:23):
I'll give you a perfect example of what you're
talking about.
Right across from street fromhere is Philadelphia high school
.
That's where I went to school.
Out for about, I say, mile anda half from here, maybe two
miles, isn't the show thecentral?
Okay, a rated school, top fiverated school district in the
state, across Classifications.
As of last month, this schoolover here has been steadily

(01:41:46):
declining, much like cityschools throughout Mississippi
have done since the inception ofintegration.
That school is a C rated school.
If you live in the city limits,technically you can't go to the
show the central.
That's only two miles away.
Yeah, that's wrong.
Just because a kid does notlive inside an imaginary line

(01:42:09):
does not mean he should bedeprived of a higher quality
education At a school that'sonly two miles from where it
lives.

Speaker 3 (01:42:16):
I think that's the thing.
A lot of times we like we referto these schools as public
schools For the public use ofMississippi.
I can go to any M dot in thestate and get my license renewed
.
Very good point, I can go toany.
This is a federal thing, but Ican go to any post office.
I can get a post office righthere in Philadelphia but I'm
gonna San Antonio, texas, andmail the same type of letter.

(01:42:37):
We don't have public schools,we have government run schools.

Speaker 2 (01:42:41):
You're right strict regulations and it is to keep
the system going, to keep thesystem Like to I don't know how
to say it properly right now butlike there has to be
protectionism like this isthere's.
That's the reason why theselines are formed, that's why
these forms are enforced by law,because, at the end of the day,

(01:43:04):
if you allowed parents choice,a lot of parents would not keep
their cut kids and f and d ratedschool Just maybe not even see
right and you an attrition wouldoccur and it would make the
system more efficient, in myopinion, exactly.
I think that is the case.
But right now there arespecifically the big teachers
unions, the, the groups thatwant to just say, hey, we can't,

(01:43:26):
we can't allow people to havecompetition, because if there's
competition, then then all thebad schools or all the bad
places people just leave, andI'm like and I'm like I would
love to live in some of theareas that have wide open land,
a lot more space.
I'd be willing to live there,but I don't want to keep put my
kids in that school district.

Speaker 1 (01:43:46):
Look at what's happening with the 16 schools
closing in Jackson.
Yeah that's exactly what'shappening.
It's not de jure, yeah, youknow it's it's de facto.
I don't know if you won't evencall it segregation, but people
are leaving because the schoolssuck.
You, the population isdecreasing because the schools
suck and so now they don't havea need for 16 elementary schools

(01:44:09):
or whatever it is.
They're closing in Jackson andthose kids being consolidated
into you know more efficientsystems, which is better for the
kid because theoretically youcan put them in environments
that are already higherperforming in most cases.
I don't know what the numbersare on those schools in Jackson,
but I do know in many, many,many cases in throughout
Mississippi that your cityschool is Blacker and lower

(01:44:33):
performing.
That doesn't mean that thosekids in that school should not
be able to change theircircumstances.

Speaker 2 (01:44:39):
Exactly, and and also , at the end of the day, like
our whole goal is not to like.
Like I said, I've been caught aracist, I've been, you know,
you know they, they say whateverthey want to say it.
Oh yeah, us that are foreducational freedom, because I
don't call it school choice.

Speaker 3 (01:44:57):
I thought we get it.
I mean, we get flack from theleft and the right.

Speaker 2 (01:45:00):
Oh, yeah, but but at the end of the day, like, our
whole goal is to allow thesystem to be optimized and Free
for people to.
Because, again, if you justwent strictly school choice
where, like, all the kids can goto this school or that school,
they're all government ranschools or whatever moment, it's
not gonna be.
It's not gonna be as Efficientas as we would want to.

(01:45:22):
That's why we talk about microschools, home schools, private
school, charter school, whateverat home or like online tutoring
for sure in sure, in persontutoring, whatever.
Yeah, um.

Speaker 1 (01:45:35):
I think there should be a buffet of options.
Exactly, there should be a.
The parents should have abuffet of choices.
It doesn't have to be publiceducation.

Speaker 2 (01:45:44):
Exactly, I think you, I think you nailed it right
there.
I mean it is.
You know, we all love ourbuffet down here.
I mean because, because some ofus don't like certain things on
the buffet.
That's right, you got morecontrol Exactly and for me and
like my faith and my family,like when I have kids.
You know, I just recently gotmarried this year and so it's
like when I have kids.

(01:46:06):
I want my kids to be in anenvironment that I Particularly
agree with, not not because Iwant my kids to be in a bubble,
but because I kind of don't mykids around some of the stuff
that I'm seeing going on inpublic schools these days, yeah,
or or some private schools orsome like I don't think I would
take my kids to some schools inCalifornia and just drop them

(01:46:27):
off and be okay with it.
I really do think that I wouldwant an education it's tailored,
like I know what I would want.
I know what other parents won't.
They want a tailored educationthat's safe, aligning with their
values, and one that's gonnacreate the most value for their
child to get them to asuccessful place in life, like
that's the ultimate goal is toget them a successful place.

Speaker 1 (01:46:49):
What happens so often in education is that the kids
on both ends of the spectrumbecome alienated.
Yes, the kids on the bottomdon't get enough individualized
attention to make up for, youknow, whether it's a
developmental disability or aneducational disability.
Whatever the case is, a lowerperforming student does not get

(01:47:12):
the attention here she needs,nor does that child that's very,
very gifted on the other end ofthe spectrum and what they end
up in the middle.
Well, they just, they're justthere, they're just there.

Speaker 3 (01:47:24):
Yeah, so it's.
It's a never-ending cycle, yeah, and it breeds bad stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:47:31):
Yeah, I mean, I think you know I don't want to say
that, I don't want about paintthe picture that I think Public
education Mississippi is justtotally defective or anything
like that, because I do think,to your point, stolen those kids
in the middle, I think they doreceive a decent level of
attention and education incertain districts.
But you know we have to be ableto, to your point, tailor that

(01:47:55):
academic approach to what thechild needs and there needs to
be more choice.

Speaker 2 (01:48:00):
Yeah, and in that regard and some parents are
perfectly okay with their kidsgoing to a Public school in
their area.

Speaker 3 (01:48:06):
I went to a great public school.

Speaker 2 (01:48:07):
Yeah, and that's, and that's okay, like that's why we
are never like you have to sendyour kids to this or you have
to send your kids to that, likeit's just, it's your choice,
it's your opportunity and and atthe end of the day, I think I
think you hit the nail on thehead that, like again, all these
teachers, these, these folksand are in the public school

(01:48:27):
system, I never, never want to ateacher to think that I'm
disparaging what they do Becausethey put up with a lot every
single day, but also like ifthat teacher was to open up a
microscope and make good moneywhile doing it, while educating
a smaller group of kids that sheknows more individually so
that's not legal currently.

Speaker 3 (01:48:48):
No, I think it's legal.
I think there's there's aHarper learning Academy.
Yeah and is it in Byron?
I might be yeah, but they'rethey.
They get to 20 students andthen they open up another one.
Yeah, there's Pony Wood School,which you know more about,
that's a boy's school, ain't it?

Speaker 2 (01:49:05):
I Don't know as much.

Speaker 1 (01:49:06):
I remember their basketball team yeah but it's.

Speaker 2 (01:49:10):
It is legal.
But the thing is is in ourcurrent system, the money is
directly linked to supportingone system.
So, like all my money goes tothe public school system Because
I live in flow with now, orlike I live in reservoir Brandon
Just for factual, but like Ilive in res reservoir Brandon,

(01:49:31):
all my money that goes to theschools goes to the public
school.
When you allow for that money tobe attached to the student,
when you allow for the money tobe attached directly to to a
child and what they need, Icould allow my student to go to
a micro school because I lovethe concept of micro school.
And when you don't have the,when the incentives are one

(01:49:54):
particular model where all themoney goes to that public school
, why would you have a bunch ofpeople starting micro schools or
or private schools or whatever?
You know, aside from the, youknow the issue that a lot of
folks have a private schools but, like, again, micro schools.
If there's the money's alreadysent to the public schools, you

(01:50:15):
would have to pony up the restof the money to pay for the
students or to pay that teachersalary, on top of already paying
the school for a school thatyou're not using.

Speaker 1 (01:50:25):
Yeah, and it's also worth mentioning that Public
education and the quality of itis the number one economic
driver, especially in smallercommunities.
So you know, for example, righthere in Philadelphia, we have a
school that is not performingvery well in the city limits.
People will not buy or build,yeah, their houses in the city

(01:50:50):
limits if they give a rat's assabout their child's education.
So that what are they doing?
They're taking their taxdollars that would be spent
inside the city limits andthey're leaving the city and
they're going to the county, andso selling a house inside the
city limits becomes difficult.
The the property values areDeluded because of that.

(01:51:10):
So it has you know.
Then you start talking abouttrying to attract business,
right?
Well, people want to know howyour public schools performing,
because that's a very importantindicator as to how healthy a
community is.
And so, if we can, I knowArkansas just recently.

Speaker 2 (01:51:27):
Yeah, that was school .
Strong leadership matters whenit comes to stuff like that,
because we've seen, I mean, andthe thing is, is there's not
just like a flood of that, like50%, like 80% of schools aren't
just rushing to go join adifferent option?
It's gonna take many years forpeople to build trust in those
communities and to say, oh, likeI Like again my home school

(01:51:51):
friend that lives inPhiladelphia, she was a teacher
who went home and did homeschooling for her kids.
Now they're part of theclassical conversations group
but, like you know, when youhave, over the years, as people
say, oh, I, I have more time onmy hands, maybe I could start a
micro school, maybe I could,maybe I could start this.
Or maybe I have teacher friendswho I really trust and if I

(01:52:15):
gave them a building and tookall that money that follows the
students and Opened up a school,like they would get paid well,
we would have more studentsgetting more individualized care
and Individuals and we, I thinkwe would see a lot more
flexibility with communities.
Like I mean, I think I reallycare about Philadelphia, I
really care about Mississippi,all the small towns, but again,

(01:52:38):
if you have more flexibility, Iwould love to live in.
You know Purvis, and again,nothing is Purvis schools.
I love them there, like I lovethe school spirit they're part
of.
Lamar County, yeah, and then Ithink they're probably really
good schools but, like again, Ithink I think one dad much where
they're have my kids in like asystem of like, like more of a

(01:52:59):
Christian environment, more ofan environment where you know
I'm, I have a little bit morecontrol over what's being taught
and that's okay.
I think that's my choice, youknow, when I become a parent.
So but again, the flexibilityallows for people to live across
the board.
That's what we want.
We want flexibility ofbusinesses, won't flexibility of

(01:53:20):
health care.
We want flexibility ofeducation that, because people
are not like Blocks that youjust stick in a peg in a hole
and you just kind of make themfit.
It just doesn't work that way.
You have to have flexibility Toallow a society to work.
Free choices, free markets areour principle when it comes to

(01:53:41):
like these, the way that weoperate and work right right.

Speaker 1 (01:53:45):
So Americans for prosperity, prosperity, yeah.
Stone clanton, cade Yates, Iappreciate y'all coming through.
Is there anything else y'all'dlike to add?
For we just check us, check usout On our social media pages.

Speaker 3 (01:53:57):
You can find us on Facebook and Americans for
prosperity Mississippi Instagram, I believe is AFP Mississippi,
yeah, but you'll find it onthere.
And then we're on X, twitter orwhatever you want to call it,
afp Mississippi.
Check us out on our nationalwebsite, americans for
prosperity dot org.

Speaker 2 (01:54:14):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's it.
I mean we're, we're thank youfor having so much man.
This is awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:54:20):
Yeah.
I've been a listener for alittle while now.

Speaker 1 (01:54:23):
Well, I appreciate it .
That means a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:54:24):
Yeah, it means a lot, and and now that I know that
we're like we have a connectionbeyond like like now I know that
we played baseball when we wereyounger together I'm like I'm
gonna have to listen more andmore and more, be like what's up
with this dude?
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:54:37):
Well, I appreciate it guys.
County line congregation.
Thank y'all Americans forprosperity, until next time,
peace.

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#130 - Americans for Prosperity w/ Stone Clanton and Cade Yates

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#130 - Americans for Prosperity w/ Stone Clanton and Cade Yates