June 18, 2025 • 22 mins
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Season 2 Episode 2: Breakup with Bad Love Advice For Couples
Forget what the movies taught you - real love isn't about finding a magical soulmate who makes everything effortless. As couples therapists, we're pulling back the curtain on the relationship advice that sounds romantic but actually sets couples up for disappointment and conflict.
That perfect person who just "gets you" without any explanation? They don't exist. Even therapists who help people identify their needs sometimes struggle to articulate what they want - so expecting your partner to read your mind isn't just unrealistic, it's a recipe for resentment. Remember when Jenna's husband bought her a laser printer for Christmas thinking it was the perfect gift? That hilarious mishap (which turned out surprisingly well a decade later) illustrates how even dedicated partners can misread each other's desires.
The advice to "never go to bed angry" might be the most damaging myth of all. When you're exhausted and emotionally heightened, your cognitive abilities plummet. Fighting until 2 AM typically leads to saying things you'll regret, not resolution. Taking properly structured timeouts isn't avoidance - it's strategic conflict management that prevents unnecessary damage. Similarly, someone needing quiet processing time after an argument doesn't automatically make them abusive or narcissistic. It's about intention and communication.
Most importantly, understand that healthy relationships require consistent work - both as a couple and as individuals. We all bring our "unfinished business" into partnerships, and addressing those patterns takes commitment. The difference between healthy effort and unhealthy struggle lies in the balance between partners and whether that work feels purposeful and mutual. There will be seasons where the giving ratio shifts to 70/30, but in thriving relationships, these imbalances naturally ebb and flow over time.
Join us in challenging these harmful relationship myths and learning what actually creates lasting, loving partnerships. Subscribe to continue unpacking the truths that help real couples thrive beyond the fairy tales.
Dr. Jenna and Dr. Nari are the Licensed Marriage and Family Therapists behind the Coupled Podcast. They both have private practices where they work with individuals, couples, and families in Florida. The two are ready to shake up the world of couples therapy and want to extend resources beyond the couples they see in their private practices.
If you like this episode and want to know more about taking the next step to improve your communication, connection, and intimacy, head over to our websites to learn more about our Staying Coupled and Getting Coupled courses. These online courses give you the flexibility to improve your relationship from the comfort and convenience of your home. The Staying Coupled course is for couples who want to do the work to connect, communicate, and have the healthiest relationship possible. The Getting Coupled course is for premarital couples wanting to learn the essentials for a successful marriage. Topics in both courses include the main issues couples face:
- Communication
- Family Boundaries
- Family Finances
- Sex
- Family Planning
- Division of Labor
- Couple Activities
For more information, visit drjennascott.com/courses or drnarijeter.com/courses
Disclaimer: This podcast is not a substitute for therapy. If you’re struggling, we encourage you to seek support from a licensed therapist in your state. Our relationsh
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
In today's episode we're addressing some common
relationship advice that wedon't necessarily agree with as
couples therapists.
We'll present some statementswe often hear and let you know
our two cents about this commonrelationship advice.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Let's jump to it, Jenna.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
All right.
So one I often hear is you justneed to find your soulmate,
this idea of soulmate thatthere's this perfect person out
there for you and that once youmeet, like, the rest will just
be easy, and I don't agree withthis.
I do think that somebody canbecome your soulmate over time,
but I think in this day and age,like, many people will have
(00:41):
several loves of their lives andI think that's perfectly okay.
But I don't think there's justthis one perfect person out
there for you and that when youmeet them, the rest will be easy
.
I think relationships take work.
I do think, like the person youchoose can make a relationship
like easier or more difficult,right?
(01:03):
Like I think it's easier if youfind somebody who has similar
values to you, similar interests, like is willing to invest a
similar amount into yourrelationship, but I don't think
that there's just this one fishin the sea for you.
What do you think, ari?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I agree, I think it's a romantic idea and it's a very
spiritual idea and for peoplewho are spiritual and like to
think about the connection ofsouls or, you know, having a
soul that compliments anotherperson's soul, it's great.
But I do think you could make arelationship work with a lot of
(01:42):
different people.
But it's yeah, it's the amountof work that you're both putting
into it and, yes, one.
I think, while I'm wary of thisadvice is because it also maybe
focuses a lot on the idea ofpassion, like that having a
soulmate means you have thislike amazing chemistry or
(02:05):
passion, and we know thatpassion ebbs and flows in a
relationship, and so, while it'sa great notion, I don't always
find it to be true and I thinkpeople who believe that at the
beginning find themselves like alittle disappointed.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Over time.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I do think like there's thisidea of compatibility and that
is important, right.
That's where there's like morealignment with those values and
interests and the investment andthe relationship but, um, but I
do believe, like and I see thisin couples I work with too that
(02:41):
like once you do find somebodyand you make a commitment, like
they can become your soulmate,like over time.
It's like this is, this is myperson.
I also see, you know, I'veworked with people throughout
the lifespan and peoplesometimes lose their soulmate
and I do believe that like theycan find another person out
(03:03):
there after that that loss,whether that's through divorce
or death.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, absolutely Jenna.
Another piece of badrelationship advice is taking a
timeout is avoidance.
So I have a lot of couples whocome to me and I'll introduce
like hey, maybe when yourarguments get escalated we
should take a timeout, andthey're like no, that's just
(03:30):
avoiding it.
And usually one person will saythe other person chases me
around the house and like wantsto keep talking about it.
And while I agree that takingspace can be used as a form of
avoidance, there is a correctand proper way to take a time
out and it can actually preventmore damage, more destruction
(03:53):
that you have to repair to therelationship.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, it's healthy to take a time out.
I think like.
The important piece is that,like, and what we typically
teach with couples is that thatyou return to whatever the
argument was, the topic, so thatyou're not just sweeping it
under the rug.
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah.
So when you take a time out,you talk about it hey, let's
take a time out.
Here are the reasons why I'moverwhelmed.
You're yelling, we're justspinning our wheels, and then
let's go do something to calmourselves down.
And if you can't time back inlater that day, then you say
something like hey, why don't wejust pick this up tomorrow over
(04:33):
breakfast?
Or you know when we get homewe'll talk about it.
So good timeouts always have atime in, and that's what makes
them not avoidance.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Right, exactly, yeah, and I think it's important that
, like you're naming it as atimeout, because some people you
know run anxious in arelationship and they have that
like fear of abandonment and solike when you're taking a
timeout, you're saying like I'mnot abandoning you or the
relationship You're notthreatening to leave.
You're just saying like I needto take some space to settle my
(05:05):
nervous system and then we canreturn to this disagreement.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, that's a good point, jenna.
Sometimes people will say likeI'm done and their partner is
like with what?
This conversation or therelationship.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, so I.
That is something I'm usuallylike.
Let's make sure we're naming itas a pause or a timeout and
sometimes couples will even likeuse a code word for it.
But we're naming it as thatrather than like I'm abandoning
you or the relationship.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
So to kind of piggyback off of that one
another.
One is never go to bed upset.
Oh, my pet peeve Never go to bedangry Talking out until the wee
hours of the morning, like asrelationship experts and those
who have studied relationshipsfor a long time, like we know
that this is not great advice.
Some of us, myself includedI've already let you all know
(06:02):
that I sometimes hoot and holler.
Like we get really heated, weget really worked up and
passionate when we're talkingabout certain things and we know
that, like if we get to acertain level, anger wise, as
we're climbing up that angermountain, like our IQ drops.
This is sometimes when we cansay hurtful things, things that
we'll regret, and like the bestthing you can do is take a pause
(06:25):
, get some sleep.
Like I know for me.
I'm somebody who, like I'm, I'mpretty calm.
I'm pretty chill as long as I'm, like fed have adequate sleep,
you know like all of those needshave been met.
So sometimes I really do thinkthe best thing you can do is say
like let's table thisdiscussion Um, let's go to sleep
(06:47):
and address it like when we'rein a more regulated state.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Absolutely, jenna.
I hear couples a lot of timesthey'll start a fight in the
evening when they have downtimeand then they try to resolve the
fight and they're staying uptill two or three in the morning
.
Then they have to get up and goto work the next day and then,
because they're so fatigued,they want to continue the
discussion, but it's like you'realready in a sleep deficit.
(07:13):
And so now we're on day two oftrying to solve this argument,
so that I will always tell mycouples go to bed Like nobody
fights.
Well, when they're tired, getsome sleep.
And honestly, I'm going to tellthem myself Sometimes I go to
bed angry and I wake up the nextmorning and I'm like, hmm, I
feel better.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Why do I feel better, maybe that like didn't need
like a 10 out of 10 responsebecause you know it's sometimes
we are exhausted at the end ofthe day and like we're not
showing up as our best selves,so like it can be okay to go to
bed.
You don't have to fight it out.
(07:55):
We're here to tell you thatit's okay to go to bed upset.
You might feel differentlyabout it in the morning, you
might not.
And another thing like Itypically name, with couples too
, is this idea of like thepursuer, distancer.
Like, usually in a relationship, there is one person who
pursues, like who wants to workit out, fight it out, and then
(08:16):
there's a distancer the otherperson's like.
Oh, I'm more okay going to bedor distancing they.
They're less comfortable withconflict.
The problem is like this tendsto be a cycle, so the more the
pursuer pursues, the more thedistancer distances.
So that is also why a timeoutlike going to bed can be helpful
, because we know that like softstartups can help with that
(08:40):
pursuer distancer dynamic.
Also, to just kind of likepiggyback off of this, I think
sometimes people think that likein happy relationships there's
not conflict, that like you justget along and everything's easy
and breezy.
And that's not the case.
Like healthy relationships haveconflict.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Absolutely it and um, I would kind of add to that
happy relationships haveconflict that they learn to
manage.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Right so it's?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
it's kind of like an iterative process, Like you'll
learn to manage one area ofconflict and you might go along
in life and then another area ofconflict comes up and then you
go oh, what we were doing beforeisn't working, so now we we
need new tools, or new skills.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
We need to manage this differently.
Yeah, and I think, like one ofthe things we often see is that,
like couples are fighting overthe same issues, right, like if
you talk to a couple who's beentogether for a decade and
they're fighting over finances,a lot of times they're like
we've been fighting overfinances like from the beginning
(09:51):
, like since we've we've dated.
So it's it's common for couplesto fight over like the same
topics.
But, yes, like happy couples doget into conflict.
They know, like, how to exit,how to find different strategies
, how to repair afterwards.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
What else Nari?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
So this is going to be controversial.
I know it because I spend agood amount of time on social
media and see people talkingabout the silent treatment and
there's a nuance here.
But some people will say mypartner gives me the silent
treatment after a conflict, theyare abusing me, they are a
(10:31):
narcissist and I'm like oh nailson a chalkboard.
So it depends on what level.
Right, like if you're talkingto your partner and saying, like
what do you want for dinner andthey pretend you're not even in
the room, that can be like aform of punishment or
vindication, but along the linesof taking a time out.
Some people need time, space,quiet their internal processors
(10:59):
right, that's me.
Yeah, they need some time.
Their body just takes a longertime to self-regulate, and so
I've had people say I need thatspace to get back down to my
kind of like safe place andself-regulate and come up with,
like the right things to saybefore I'm ready to talk again.
(11:25):
Like to reflect being silent ornot, as talkative isn't always a
bad thing, but you need to talkabout the intention behind it,
and if you are the person who ismore likely to give the silent
treatment, then you still needto tell your partner.
Hey, like I'm still reallyrattled about that conflict, I
(11:49):
need some time and space to likeyeah, you own it.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, Like you own what your needs are so like.
I'm feeling frustrated, likeI'm going to need some more time
before I'm ready to have theconversation Right.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And you can even reaffirm like cause, some people
, like you said, they're anxiousand they're like my partner's,
giving me the silent treatment,they're going to leave me.
So so then you, you say thatI'm not leaving you.
Yeah, I'm not going anywhere, Ijust need space, right?
So the silent treatment in andof itself is not a narcissistic
(12:23):
trait and it's not in and ofitself abusive.
But, um, I would say, as muchas possible, you still need to
function as a couple, right?
so if you have kids and choresand things like that, like you,
kind of keep it neutral rightyeah, talk about the business,
but maybe table the emotionalstuff until one or both of you
(12:44):
is in a place where you can talkabout it my husband's actually
like usually pretty humble andgood about like.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I'm actually like usually pretty humble and good
about like apologizing and likeum, and sometimes I'm the one
who like needs more time andspace.
Um, what's interesting is in mymaster's program I remember
like one of my professors likegave us this statement of like I
love you.
I'm having trouble liking youin this moment.
You know like so, but Ioftentimes think about that,
like during conflict myself islike reassuring my partner.
(13:12):
Like I love you.
I'm just I'm struggling in thismoment with you know what, what
just happened, so I'm going toneed a little bit more, more
time, but always like offeringthe reassurance of the
relationship.
I think, can be can be helpful.
Let's move on to the next one.
I hear this If someone lovesyou, they just are going to know
what you need.
Let's move on to the next one.
Um, I hear this If someoneloves you, they just are going
(13:33):
to know what you need.
It's almost like this idea oflike being able to read your
mind and I see this so like Isee this play out so often in
the couple's session, um, and Ithink sometimes, like this can
happen when there was conflict,like Oftentimes we expect our
(13:53):
partners to just like know whatwe need in repair.
But what's interesting, like asa couple's therapist, like
sometimes I'm checking in on apartner and I'm like, what do
you need in this moment?
And sometimes people can'tidentify what they need.
Like they and I will ask, likedo you need a hug?
Do you need an apology?
Like, and sometimes they can'tidentify.
(14:13):
Yet we expect our partners to beable to like know exactly what
we need in these differentmoments, and I think there's
just this like expectation inrelationships.
That's not realistic.
Like and I really have to kindof coach people here, like I
don't tend to coach people as atherapist and more of like you
(14:33):
know, but in this way I can getdirect and say like I think
you're expecting your partner toread your mind and that I don't
think that's realistic.
Like we have to get comfortableidentifying our own needs and
being able to voice those needsto our partner in a healthy way.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, jenna, I was just thinking.
I don't even know what I needsometimes, but I will say along
those lines is that sometimes,uh, couples will bristle when I
say you can't expect yourpartner to mind read.
You have to tell them what youwant and need.
And the other person will saysomething along the lines of
well, if, if they tell me and Ido it, then they're just going
(15:17):
to say you just did that,because I said so.
And so I like to reframe that toif you have a partner who does
what you ask them to do, that isa responsive partner.
Having a responsive partner isa good thing, right, Rather than
you tell your partner what youneed and they don't do it like
that's unresponsive right so ifyou give your partner feedback
(15:41):
of like, hey, I need more hugs,and they start hugging you, you
can't be like, well, you justdid that because I told you to
it's like no, they heard you andthey're making an effort you
can't.
It's called discounting.
You can't discount thatbehavior.
So so I do think there's thislike getting back to what we
were talking about the soulmate,this romanticism of like my
(16:03):
person will know me inside andout.
Well, guess what?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I don't even know me Like I go to therapy to figure
out me, so I can't expect andthat's going to change
throughout your lifespan- yeah,and I see this sometimes, like
with gift giving too like, oh,my partner's just supposed to
know like the perfect present tobuy, and I'm like you can tell
your partner, like what you,what you want, um, and if they
(16:26):
don't get it right, like thatdoesn't mean that you all are
not meant to be together.
Um, I can actually give areally funny story here.
This was like over a decade ago, so my husband and I have
worked through it, but when hewas actually living in another
country like he, you can tellhow long ago this was because
(16:47):
when he talked about, likereturning to the States, he was
like I want a laser printer andI want a Netflix account.
And I was like you can getthose things.
Well, like right beforeChristmas.
It wasn't even like around the20th.
This was like you can get thosethings well, like right before
Christmas.
It wasn't even like around the20th.
This was like a month prior.
A laser printer shows up at mydoorstep and I'm like, hey, your
laser printer arrives.
He's like oh no, jenna, that's,that's your Christmas present,
(17:12):
but I didn't want a laserprinter.
He's like, but, but you're ingraduate school.
I'm like, but, you're the onewho's been talking about a laser
printer.
So I was.
I will self-disclose that I wasfrustrated in that moment.
I was like I did not want thislaser printer.
Like you know, I can't believeyou bought me a laser printer,
um, but this is where I'm thejackass Cause, the joke's on me,
(17:32):
like over a decade later later,we're still using this laser
printer.
It was the best laser printeron the market.
So now I can like laugh aboutit.
But at the time I was like sofrustrated that my partner
bought me a laser printer and Ididn't want the laser printer.
I was like this was a gift thatyou like you wanted.
But I use that like very funnyexample, because I do see this
(17:54):
showing up sometimes where, likepartners get really upset if
they like receive a gift thatthey didn't want, because it's
like, oh, my person should knowwhat I want.
But that's not always the case.
I'm like, hey, I thought Ididn't want that laser printer,
but here I am still using thatlatest laser printer a decade
later um, and I use it allthroughout grad school too, so,
like sometimes, our partners doknow us quite, quite well.
(18:16):
Yeah, that's where we have togive them some grace.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Absolutely Okay.
What else?
Um?
This is another one.
A relationship shouldn't behard or too much work, like.
I don't know who coined thatphrase, but I'm sorry, but if
you're going to do arelationship well, it's going to
be a lot of work right.
Now there is a differencebetween like tolerating abuse,
(18:43):
right, tolerating dishonesty andmanipulation, and like that is
hard work and I don't alwaysadvise that.
You know you invest in that,but it's going to be hard work
on both parts.
You invest in that but, um,it's going to be hard work on
both parts.
I think what ends up beingexhausting is if you feel like
you're the one doing all thework and the other partner is
(19:03):
just coasting or skating all thetime in the relationship.
You know so there's, there'sgoing to be an ebb and flow,
that maybe in one season in lifeyou're giving more to the
relationship, paying moreattention to your partner's
needs, but then you feel likethere's this balance where they
then later on come back and youknow, show you, you know the
(19:24):
love and affection and gratitude.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Like maybe one partner is sick and you have to
give like 70% and they can onlygive 30%.
I think the important thing isit's like knowing that if the
roles were reversed, like yourpartner would be taking care of
you, that like it's okay to give70, 30 at some time, like at
some point in the relationship,but that will ebb and flow and
(19:48):
that will switch so that bothparties are giving and taking.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
And Jenna, I think there's not only relational work
, like how much you have to workon managing conflict or
whatever, but I also think thatwe all come to relationships
with bad habits, trauma, like,triggers, things from our past,
and it is our responsibility todo our own self work.
And so you know again, youcan't change your partner right,
(20:18):
like you can't make them showup for you in a different way or
work on their issues, but youhave to be willing to do your
own work so to exist in arelationship.
Yes, there's relational work,but there's also that honesty of
looking at yourself.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
The individual work yeah, and going.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Oh, I struggle with silent treatment, or I struggle
with anger, or you know, Iinterpret these really small
things as really big things.
Why am I doing that?
I need to work on that yeah.
So relationships require allkinds of work.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah Well, they say, you marry your unfinished
business right.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Have you ever heard that?
Yeah, like we marry yourunfinished business, right.
Have you ever heard that?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Like we marry our unfinished business, like
there's a lot of like self-workthat has to happen to in
relationships.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, I mean, if you look at this bad relationship
advice, if this is what'sfloating out there that we kind
of disagree with as couplestherapists, in reality, it's no
wonder that couples struggletoday.
It's because they are notgetting, you know, necessarily
the best information.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, and have a hard time reaching out for help If
they think that there's thismold and they don't fit into it.
It's like that's hard to reachout for help when you are
struggling with these, thesethings.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
And that's why we're on the mission with our podcast
is because we want tode-stigmatize couples therapy
and get people in sooner toaddress things like this, rather
than when they feel likethey're just in a pit of despair
.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Well, there you have it.
We're looking forward to seeingyou next time.
In today's episode we're addressing some common
relationship advice that wedon't necessarily agree with as
couples therapists.
We'll present some statementswe often hear and let you know
our two cents about this commonrelationship advice.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Let's jump to it, Jenna.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
All right.
So one I often hear is you justneed to find your soulmate,
this idea of soulmate thatthere's this perfect person out
there for you and that once youmeet, like, the rest will just
be easy, and I don't agree withthis.
I do think that somebody canbecome your soulmate over time,
but I think in this day and age,like, many people will have
(00:41):
several loves of their lives andI think that's perfectly okay.
But I don't think there's justthis one perfect person out
there for you and that when youmeet them, the rest will be easy
.
I think relationships take work.
I do think, like the person youchoose can make a relationship
like easier or more difficult,right?
(01:03):
Like I think it's easier if youfind somebody who has similar
values to you, similar interests, like is willing to invest a
similar amount into yourrelationship, but I don't think
that there's just this one fishin the sea for you.
What do you think, ari?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I agree, I think it's a romantic idea and it's a very
spiritual idea and for peoplewho are spiritual and like to
think about the connection ofsouls or, you know, having a
soul that compliments anotherperson's soul, it's great.
But I do think you could make arelationship work with a lot of
(01:42):
different people.
But it's yeah, it's the amountof work that you're both putting
into it and, yes, one.
I think, while I'm wary of thisadvice is because it also maybe
focuses a lot on the idea ofpassion, like that having a
soulmate means you have thislike amazing chemistry or
(02:05):
passion, and we know thatpassion ebbs and flows in a
relationship, and so, while it'sa great notion, I don't always
find it to be true and I thinkpeople who believe that at the
beginning find themselves like alittle disappointed.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Over time.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I do think like there's thisidea of compatibility and that
is important, right.
That's where there's like morealignment with those values and
interests and the investment andthe relationship but, um, but I
do believe, like and I see thisin couples I work with too that
(02:41):
like once you do find somebodyand you make a commitment, like
they can become your soulmate,like over time.
It's like this is, this is myperson.
I also see, you know, I'veworked with people throughout
the lifespan and peoplesometimes lose their soulmate
and I do believe that like theycan find another person out
(03:03):
there after that that loss,whether that's through divorce
or death.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, absolutely Jenna.
Another piece of badrelationship advice is taking a
timeout is avoidance.
So I have a lot of couples whocome to me and I'll introduce
like hey, maybe when yourarguments get escalated we
should take a timeout, andthey're like no, that's just
(03:30):
avoiding it.
And usually one person will saythe other person chases me
around the house and like wantsto keep talking about it.
And while I agree that takingspace can be used as a form of
avoidance, there is a correctand proper way to take a time
out and it can actually preventmore damage, more destruction
(03:53):
that you have to repair to therelationship.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, it's healthy to take a time out.
I think like.
The important piece is that,like, and what we typically
teach with couples is that thatyou return to whatever the
argument was, the topic, so thatyou're not just sweeping it
under the rug.
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah.
So when you take a time out,you talk about it hey, let's
take a time out.
Here are the reasons why I'moverwhelmed.
You're yelling, we're justspinning our wheels, and then
let's go do something to calmourselves down.
And if you can't time back inlater that day, then you say
something like hey, why don't wejust pick this up tomorrow over
(04:33):
breakfast?
Or you know when we get homewe'll talk about it.
So good timeouts always have atime in, and that's what makes
them not avoidance.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Right, exactly, yeah, and I think it's important that
, like you're naming it as atimeout, because some people you
know run anxious in arelationship and they have that
like fear of abandonment and solike when you're taking a
timeout, you're saying like I'mnot abandoning you or the
relationship You're notthreatening to leave.
You're just saying like I needto take some space to settle my
(05:05):
nervous system and then we canreturn to this disagreement.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, that's a good point, jenna.
Sometimes people will say likeI'm done and their partner is
like with what?
This conversation or therelationship.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, so I.
That is something I'm usuallylike.
Let's make sure we're naming itas a pause or a timeout and
sometimes couples will even likeuse a code word for it.
But we're naming it as thatrather than like I'm abandoning
you or the relationship.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
So to kind of piggyback off of that one
another.
One is never go to bed upset.
Oh, my pet peeve Never go to bedangry Talking out until the wee
hours of the morning, like asrelationship experts and those
who have studied relationshipsfor a long time, like we know
that this is not great advice.
Some of us, myself includedI've already let you all know
(06:02):
that I sometimes hoot and holler.
Like we get really heated, weget really worked up and
passionate when we're talkingabout certain things and we know
that, like if we get to acertain level, anger wise, as
we're climbing up that angermountain, like our IQ drops.
This is sometimes when we cansay hurtful things, things that
we'll regret, and like the bestthing you can do is take a pause
(06:25):
, get some sleep.
Like I know for me.
I'm somebody who, like I'm, I'mpretty calm.
I'm pretty chill as long as I'm, like fed have adequate sleep,
you know like all of those needshave been met.
So sometimes I really do thinkthe best thing you can do is say
like let's table thisdiscussion Um, let's go to sleep
(06:47):
and address it like when we'rein a more regulated state.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Absolutely, jenna.
I hear couples a lot of timesthey'll start a fight in the
evening when they have downtimeand then they try to resolve the
fight and they're staying uptill two or three in the morning
.
Then they have to get up and goto work the next day and then,
because they're so fatigued,they want to continue the
discussion, but it's like you'realready in a sleep deficit.
(07:13):
And so now we're on day two oftrying to solve this argument,
so that I will always tell mycouples go to bed Like nobody
fights.
Well, when they're tired, getsome sleep.
And honestly, I'm going to tellthem myself Sometimes I go to
bed angry and I wake up the nextmorning and I'm like, hmm, I
feel better.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Why do I feel better, maybe that like didn't need
like a 10 out of 10 responsebecause you know it's sometimes
we are exhausted at the end ofthe day and like we're not
showing up as our best selves,so like it can be okay to go to
bed.
You don't have to fight it out.
(07:55):
We're here to tell you thatit's okay to go to bed upset.
You might feel differentlyabout it in the morning, you
might not.
And another thing like Itypically name, with couples too
, is this idea of like thepursuer, distancer.
Like, usually in a relationship, there is one person who
pursues, like who wants to workit out, fight it out, and then
(08:16):
there's a distancer the otherperson's like.
Oh, I'm more okay going to bedor distancing they.
They're less comfortable withconflict.
The problem is like this tendsto be a cycle, so the more the
pursuer pursues, the more thedistancer distances.
So that is also why a timeoutlike going to bed can be helpful
, because we know that like softstartups can help with that
(08:40):
pursuer distancer dynamic.
Also, to just kind of likepiggyback off of this, I think
sometimes people think that likein happy relationships there's
not conflict, that like you justget along and everything's easy
and breezy.
And that's not the case.
Like healthy relationships haveconflict.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Absolutely it and um, I would kind of add to that
happy relationships haveconflict that they learn to
manage.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Right so it's?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
it's kind of like an iterative process, Like you'll
learn to manage one area ofconflict and you might go along
in life and then another area ofconflict comes up and then you
go oh, what we were doing beforeisn't working, so now we we
need new tools, or new skills.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
We need to manage this differently.
Yeah, and I think, like one ofthe things we often see is that,
like couples are fighting overthe same issues, right, like if
you talk to a couple who's beentogether for a decade and
they're fighting over finances,a lot of times they're like
we've been fighting overfinances like from the beginning
(09:51):
, like since we've we've dated.
So it's it's common for couplesto fight over like the same
topics.
But, yes, like happy couples doget into conflict.
They know, like, how to exit,how to find different strategies
, how to repair afterwards.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
What else Nari?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
So this is going to be controversial.
I know it because I spend agood amount of time on social
media and see people talkingabout the silent treatment and
there's a nuance here.
But some people will say mypartner gives me the silent
treatment after a conflict, theyare abusing me, they are a
(10:31):
narcissist and I'm like oh nailson a chalkboard.
So it depends on what level.
Right, like if you're talkingto your partner and saying, like
what do you want for dinner andthey pretend you're not even in
the room, that can be like aform of punishment or
vindication, but along the linesof taking a time out.
Some people need time, space,quiet their internal processors
(10:59):
right, that's me.
Yeah, they need some time.
Their body just takes a longertime to self-regulate, and so
I've had people say I need thatspace to get back down to my
kind of like safe place andself-regulate and come up with,
like the right things to saybefore I'm ready to talk again.
(11:25):
Like to reflect being silent ornot, as talkative isn't always a
bad thing, but you need to talkabout the intention behind it,
and if you are the person who ismore likely to give the silent
treatment, then you still needto tell your partner.
Hey, like I'm still reallyrattled about that conflict, I
(11:49):
need some time and space to likeyeah, you own it.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, Like you own what your needs are so like.
I'm feeling frustrated, likeI'm going to need some more time
before I'm ready to have theconversation Right.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And you can even reaffirm like cause, some people
, like you said, they're anxiousand they're like my partner's,
giving me the silent treatment,they're going to leave me.
So so then you, you say thatI'm not leaving you.
Yeah, I'm not going anywhere, Ijust need space, right?
So the silent treatment in andof itself is not a narcissistic
(12:23):
trait and it's not in and ofitself abusive.
But, um, I would say, as muchas possible, you still need to
function as a couple, right?
so if you have kids and choresand things like that, like you,
kind of keep it neutral rightyeah, talk about the business,
but maybe table the emotionalstuff until one or both of you
(12:44):
is in a place where you can talkabout it my husband's actually
like usually pretty humble andgood about like.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I'm actually like usually pretty humble and good
about like apologizing and likeum, and sometimes I'm the one
who like needs more time andspace.
Um, what's interesting is in mymaster's program I remember
like one of my professors likegave us this statement of like I
love you.
I'm having trouble liking youin this moment.
You know like so, but Ioftentimes think about that,
like during conflict myself islike reassuring my partner.
(13:12):
Like I love you.
I'm just I'm struggling in thismoment with you know what, what
just happened, so I'm going toneed a little bit more, more
time, but always like offeringthe reassurance of the
relationship.
I think, can be can be helpful.
Let's move on to the next one.
I hear this If someone lovesyou, they just are going to know
what you need.
Let's move on to the next one.
Um, I hear this If someoneloves you, they just are going
(13:33):
to know what you need.
It's almost like this idea oflike being able to read your
mind and I see this so like Isee this play out so often in
the couple's session, um, and Ithink sometimes, like this can
happen when there was conflict,like Oftentimes we expect our
(13:53):
partners to just like know whatwe need in repair.
But what's interesting, like asa couple's therapist, like
sometimes I'm checking in on apartner and I'm like, what do
you need in this moment?
And sometimes people can'tidentify what they need.
Like they and I will ask, likedo you need a hug?
Do you need an apology?
Like, and sometimes they can'tidentify.
(14:13):
Yet we expect our partners to beable to like know exactly what
we need in these differentmoments, and I think there's
just this like expectation inrelationships.
That's not realistic.
Like and I really have to kindof coach people here, like I
don't tend to coach people as atherapist and more of like you
(14:33):
know, but in this way I can getdirect and say like I think
you're expecting your partner toread your mind and that I don't
think that's realistic.
Like we have to get comfortableidentifying our own needs and
being able to voice those needsto our partner in a healthy way.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, jenna, I was just thinking.
I don't even know what I needsometimes, but I will say along
those lines is that sometimes,uh, couples will bristle when I
say you can't expect yourpartner to mind read.
You have to tell them what youwant and need.
And the other person will saysomething along the lines of
well, if, if they tell me and Ido it, then they're just going
(15:17):
to say you just did that,because I said so.
And so I like to reframe that toif you have a partner who does
what you ask them to do, that isa responsive partner.
Having a responsive partner isa good thing, right, Rather than
you tell your partner what youneed and they don't do it like
that's unresponsive right so ifyou give your partner feedback
(15:41):
of like, hey, I need more hugs,and they start hugging you, you
can't be like, well, you justdid that because I told you to
it's like no, they heard you andthey're making an effort you
can't.
It's called discounting.
You can't discount thatbehavior.
So so I do think there's thislike getting back to what we
were talking about the soulmate,this romanticism of like my
(16:03):
person will know me inside andout.
Well, guess what?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I don't even know me Like I go to therapy to figure
out me, so I can't expect andthat's going to change
throughout your lifespan- yeah,and I see this sometimes, like
with gift giving too like, oh,my partner's just supposed to
know like the perfect present tobuy, and I'm like you can tell
your partner, like what you,what you want, um, and if they
(16:26):
don't get it right, like thatdoesn't mean that you all are
not meant to be together.
Um, I can actually give areally funny story here.
This was like over a decade ago, so my husband and I have
worked through it, but when hewas actually living in another
country like he, you can tellhow long ago this was because
(16:47):
when he talked about, likereturning to the States, he was
like I want a laser printer andI want a Netflix account.
And I was like you can getthose things.
Well, like right beforeChristmas.
It wasn't even like around the20th.
This was like you can get thosethings well, like right before
Christmas.
It wasn't even like around the20th.
This was like a month prior.
A laser printer shows up at mydoorstep and I'm like, hey, your
laser printer arrives.
He's like oh no, jenna, that's,that's your Christmas present,
(17:12):
but I didn't want a laserprinter.
He's like, but, but you're ingraduate school.
I'm like, but, you're the onewho's been talking about a laser
printer.
So I was.
I will self-disclose that I wasfrustrated in that moment.
I was like I did not want thislaser printer.
Like you know, I can't believeyou bought me a laser printer,
um, but this is where I'm thejackass Cause, the joke's on me,
(17:32):
like over a decade later later,we're still using this laser
printer.
It was the best laser printeron the market.
So now I can like laugh aboutit.
But at the time I was like sofrustrated that my partner
bought me a laser printer and Ididn't want the laser printer.
I was like this was a gift thatyou like you wanted.
But I use that like very funnyexample, because I do see this
(17:54):
showing up sometimes where, likepartners get really upset if
they like receive a gift thatthey didn't want, because it's
like, oh, my person should knowwhat I want.
But that's not always the case.
I'm like, hey, I thought Ididn't want that laser printer,
but here I am still using thatlatest laser printer a decade
later um, and I use it allthroughout grad school too, so,
like sometimes, our partners doknow us quite, quite well.
(18:16):
Yeah, that's where we have togive them some grace.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Absolutely Okay.
What else?
Um?
This is another one.
A relationship shouldn't behard or too much work, like.
I don't know who coined thatphrase, but I'm sorry, but if
you're going to do arelationship well, it's going to
be a lot of work right.
Now there is a differencebetween like tolerating abuse,
(18:43):
right, tolerating dishonesty andmanipulation, and like that is
hard work and I don't alwaysadvise that.
You know you invest in that,but it's going to be hard work
on both parts.
You invest in that but, um,it's going to be hard work on
both parts.
I think what ends up beingexhausting is if you feel like
you're the one doing all thework and the other partner is
(19:03):
just coasting or skating all thetime in the relationship.
You know so there's, there'sgoing to be an ebb and flow,
that maybe in one season in lifeyou're giving more to the
relationship, paying moreattention to your partner's
needs, but then you feel likethere's this balance where they
then later on come back and youknow, show you, you know the
(19:24):
love and affection and gratitude.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Like maybe one partner is sick and you have to
give like 70% and they can onlygive 30%.
I think the important thing isit's like knowing that if the
roles were reversed, like yourpartner would be taking care of
you, that like it's okay to give70, 30 at some time, like at
some point in the relationship,but that will ebb and flow and
(19:48):
that will switch so that bothparties are giving and taking.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
And Jenna, I think there's not only relational work
, like how much you have to workon managing conflict or
whatever, but I also think thatwe all come to relationships
with bad habits, trauma, like,triggers, things from our past,
and it is our responsibility todo our own self work.
And so you know again, youcan't change your partner right,
(20:18):
like you can't make them showup for you in a different way or
work on their issues, but youhave to be willing to do your
own work so to exist in arelationship.
Yes, there's relational work,but there's also that honesty of
looking at yourself.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
The individual work yeah, and going.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Oh, I struggle with silent treatment, or I struggle
with anger, or you know, Iinterpret these really small
things as really big things.
Why am I doing that?
I need to work on that yeah.
So relationships require allkinds of work.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah Well, they say, you marry your unfinished
business right.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Have you ever heard that?
Yeah, like we marry yourunfinished business, right.
Have you ever heard that?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Like we marry our unfinished business, like
there's a lot of like self-workthat has to happen to in
relationships.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, I mean, if you look at this bad relationship
advice, if this is what'sfloating out there that we kind
of disagree with as couplestherapists, in reality, it's no
wonder that couples struggletoday.
It's because they are notgetting, you know, necessarily
the best information.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, and have a hard time reaching out for help If
they think that there's thismold and they don't fit into it.
It's like that's hard to reachout for help when you are
struggling with these, thesethings.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
And that's why we're on the mission with our podcast
is because we want tode-stigmatize couples therapy
and get people in sooner toaddress things like this, rather
than when they feel likethey're just in a pit of despair
.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Well, there you have it.
We're looking forward to seeingyou next time.
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