Send us a text! We’d love to know what you think!
Season 2 Episode 3: Normalizing Relationship Friction: Common Questions Couples Are Afraid to Ask
Are you silently questioning if certain thoughts and feelings in your relationship are normal? You're not alone. We're diving straight into the questions that keep couples up at night—the ones they're often too embarrassed to discuss with friends.
First up: Is it normal to be annoyed with your partner? Living with another human being inevitably brings friction. The difference between occasional irritation and constant annoyance often marks the line between normal relationship friction and deeper resentment. When your partner leaves socks on your laptop or loads the dishwasher "the wrong way," remember there's a crucial difference between their intention and your perception.
What about enjoying time apart? Despite societal messaging that happy couples should want to spend every moment together, maintaining individuality is vital for relationship health. Having separate interests, hobbies, and social connections allows partners to recharge and bring fresh energy back to the relationship. The key is balance—couples should share meaningful experiences while still nurturing their individual identities.
We also tackle trickier questions: Is it normal to think about other people? To experience fluctuations in sexual desire? What about when only one partner seems invested in working on the relationship? Throughout the discussion, we emphasize that many experiences commonly viewed as relationship "red flags" are actually normal variations of human connection that can be navigated with open communication.
Through practical advice like implementing regular "state of the union" meetings and recognizing when professional help might benefit your relationship, we're providing tools to strengthen your connection. After all, acknowledging these common challenges is the first step toward building a more resilient partnership.
Want to feel validated in your relationship experiences and gain practical strategies for a stronger connection? Listen now, and join the conversation about what's truly normal in lasting relationships.
Dr. Jenna and Dr. Nari are the Licensed Marriage and Family Therapists behind the Coupled Podcast. They both have private practices where they work with individuals, couples, and families in Florida. The two are ready to shake up the world of couples therapy and want to extend resources beyond the couples they see in their private practices.
If you like this episode and want to know more about taking the next step to improve your communication, connection, and intimacy, head over to our websites to learn more about our Staying Coupled and Getting Coupled courses. These online courses give you the flexibility to improve your relationship from the comfort and convenience of your home. The Staying Coupled course is for couples who want to do the work to connect, communicate, and have the healthiest relationship possible. The Getting Coupled course is for premarital couples wanting to learn the essentials for a successful marriage. Topics in both courses include the main issues couples face:
- Communication
- Family Boundaries
- Family Finances
- Sex
- Family Planning
- Division of Labor
- Couple Activities
For more information, visit drjennascott.com/courses or drnarijeter.com/courses
Disclaimer: This podcast is not a substitute for therapy. If you’re struggling, we encourage you to seek support from a licensed therapist in your state. Our relationship suggestions and content may not
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of the Coupled Podcast.
In today's episode, we'rediving into some of the most
common questions we get fromcouples.
Is it normal to be annoyed withyour partner?
Is it okay to enjoy spendingtime away from your partner?
And what if you just don't wantto have sex with your spouse?
These are questions that manypeople often feel too
(00:20):
embarrassed to tackle or askwith friends, so we're going to
jump right into it and talkabout them.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
So the first question we often get is is it normal to
be annoyed with your partner?
And I'm like, uh, I hope soit's hard to live with somebody.
It really is, and I think thatwe we have to just acknowledge
that that living with someoneelse is not an easy task.
Um, that that living withsomeone else is not an easy task
(00:50):
no one's perfect, and evenshort of the idea of perfection
is that there are just lots ofdifferent ways of living, of
doing laundry, of eating, of youknow existing together, and so
living with someone else, evensomeone you've known for a long
time, can bring in a lot offrustration.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, and I can give like a very recent example of
this I usually put my laptop ona table in our bedroom, like if
I have to do some work outsideof being at the office.
And the other morning I likewent to go get my laptop and I
was like I didn't see it on thetable and so I was like, oh, I
must've left it at the office.
I got to the office, wasn'tthere.
(01:27):
So during my lunch break mylike one precious hour I drove
back home.
I get there, my husband had putlike a bin of socks on top of
the laptop.
So like, when I glanced at it,it seems like my laptop wasn't
there, but it was still.
Like that's a common annoyance,right?
Like that is annoying, butsomething I was able to get over
, right?
Like I think the piece here isthat, like you don't want to be
(01:51):
constantly annoyed with yourpartner, right, like that might
be an indication thatsomething's off in the
relationship.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Right.
Acknowledge at least this is acoping skill I use, jenna that
some of the things I get annoyedwith my partner about aren't
necessarily bad or wrong.
Right that I know, for example,I have some pretty strong
preferences about things that myspouse doesn't necessarily have
(02:21):
, and it doesn't mean that he'sannoying me on purpose.
It's just that I have thesevery strong preferences and
everyone can't live according tomy standards.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Right.
Well, and this is where, like,I feel like one of the like kind
of things I do to coach coupleson is like differentiating
between like intention versusperception.
Like I'm perceiving this aslike an annoyance, but like my
partner did not put their sockson top of my laptop to be like
Like I'm perceiving this as likean annoyance, but like my
partner did not put their sockson top of my laptop to be like
I'm really gonna, you know workday today Like and that's where
(02:53):
we got to give our partners somegrace too, cause it is.
It's hard to live with somebody,it's hard to be in a long-term
relationship.
It's normal to get annoyed,right Like, it's very normal.
I think this is where it can behealthy to like have some space
to be able to be like.
This was so annoying, um, butif it's constant like sometimes
I do see this like constantannoyance with a partner, and
(03:15):
sometimes people are unhappy intheir relationship.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yes, absolutely.
I will often pick up on thatacross many sessions with the
couple and then kind of ask thequestion are you annoyed or are
you resentful?
Yeah, you know, and then a lotof times that partner will be
like.
You know what I do haveresentment.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I didn't want to say it, but you know, and here are
all the reasons why, and that'swhere it's good to like, really
differentiate, like, is thisjust common annoyance or is this
, like I am deeply unhappy and Ifeel like sometimes with
girlfriends, I can kind of pickup on that too.
It's like, yeah, we can all saylike, oh, I'm annoyed by this,
but if it's like this constantannoyance with the spouse or
(03:58):
partner, probably an indicationthat some work needs to be done,
absolutely All right, is itokay to enjoy spending time away
from your partner One of mymost favorite topics to talk
about.
Like, even in our course, wehave a time together versus time
apart, and I think this issomething that just, I think
we're socialized to think thatlike, oh, if you're in a happy
(04:19):
and healthy relationship, likeyou spend all of your time
together and like I just I tendto disagree with that Like I
think it is healthy to have someindividuality in a relationship
.
I think we come intorelationships with friendships
and hobbies and different thingsthat we like to do, and I think
that's perfectly okay to stillhave some of that when you're in
a long-term relationship.
(04:41):
So I think I think it's great,I think it can help us like
recharge, like I know when I goout with my girlfriends and come
back to my household, I'm like,ooh, I'm like refreshed and
have new conversations that Ican talk to my spouse or partner
about.
I will say like one of theindicators that like a couple
(05:01):
might be headed for a divorce.
So, like what I'm seeing whencouples are like on the brink of
divorce is that sometimesthey're leading like completely
separate lives.
And I would say, that can beproblematic, like if you don't
watch any shows together, ifyou're not even like having
conversations, if, like you'redoing totally separate things.
I think that can be problematic.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Right, jenna, I needed this advice when I was
first married.
So this was the biggestconflict my husband and I had
when we were first married,because I'm an extrovert and
he's an introvert and I wantedhim to do everything with me.
Every party I got invited toget together.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
That man must have been exhausted.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And he has good boundaries.
So he would say no and I feltlike devastated like you don't
love me and he was spending afair amount of time with me, but
he didn't want to go to all theextra things that we were
invited to.
And now, looking back at thattime in our lives, I also
realized that because of hiswork schedule, I did naturally
(06:08):
get a lot of time apart from him.
So if he would work till 10o'clock at night, I could come
home, order my Chinese food andwatch my TV shows and have some
time to myself.
But a lot of times when he wasoff, I was off too.
So he didn't get that time.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And he needed it Right.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So I do think that it's important to look at and
evaluate throughout your livesthat, whether it's changing work
schedules or having children,is.
Another mitigating factor inthis is that both people get
some time for themselves torecharge and refresh.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
And I think a lot of these things, like when I really
dig into them with couples andtherapy.
People like attach meaning tobehaviors Like oh, my partner
wants to spend time away from meand they get so hurt by it.
But like I feel like I'm tryingto help them come up with some
different reframes, like this isimportant for your partner.
It does not like both thingscan exist at the same time.
(07:05):
Like they can love you, theycan love spending time with you
and they can enjoy playing around of golf with their friends
too.
Like both things can be true atthe same time.
Um, and yeah, I feel like timeapart and time together like
look different at differentphases of the relationship.
Like my husband and I have beenseparated by like oceans, right
(07:26):
.
Like we've lived in differentcountries.
Like right now we're parentingthree kids together.
So like we're spending a lot oftime together.
So this is also going to lookdifferent at different times in
your relationship.
And I think this is just anarea to communicate and like the
way you communicate about thesethings I think is really
important too.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Absolutely.
Another question about is thisnormal?
Is and this is going to be ahard one for some people- I know
People are going to have a hardtime digesting that Okay.
So brace yourselves wherever youare.
If you're driving, take a deepbreath.
But should you be worried ifyou're thinking about other
people?
Or do you question is yourpartner thinking about other
(08:07):
people?
And I want to say, um, this isnormal and it's going to happen.
Just because you're in acommitted relationship doesn't
mean that you're not going tofind other people attractive or
interesting.
We're human.
We're human.
Yes, yeah, we're curious.
So it is okay or normal to havea fleeting attraction or even
(08:33):
just maybe process like whatwould my life have been like if
I had married someone like thator ended up in a relationship
like that?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I know you're getting a reaction out of people.
I know I've like talked aboutthis in session with folks and I
can see like people's responseto this and some people do have
strong opinions about this andsometimes that is also like
attached to their like religiousviews.
That like it is not okay.
So if you believe that, allright.
(09:02):
I think it is normal to haveattractions to other people.
To think about other people, Iwill say sometimes when people
are dissatisfied in theircurrent relationship, it's
happening more frequently ormore frequently than they're
comfortable with.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Right, yeah, I would say so, and I think there's a
difference between like acuriosity or thinking about
those things, but also beingreal with yourself, and being
like because I have thiscuriosity, I need to be on my
guard when I'm around them.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Absolutely.
Yeah, Draw up some healthyboundaries.
But there are like sextherapists out there that will
even like, are proponents ofthey call it like inviting in
the third, Like it's.
It can be exciting to your owncurrent relationship if you like
(09:57):
.
Think about other people, youknow that can add a little
healthy amount of jealousy andexcitement to the relationship.
So there are people out therewho are like proponents of this,
and I'm not saying inviting athird, meaning like a three, you
know like don't don't put wordsin my mouth.
Yes, that like.
Just normalize that Right.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
One thing I like to use as an example to explain to
couples about this, when we'relike working through this in a
relationship is, you know, whenchildren are young and even
through like adolescent years,they try on things like playing,
pretend or imagination, or likethey even teens, you'll see
(10:40):
them try on.
Oh, I went on through like alittle goth stage, you know like
those kinds of things A preppystage and it's their way of like
trying things on to see if itwould fit or like how they would
feel in those situations.
It doesn't mean like when yourchild pretends that they want to
be an airline pilot, thatthat's what they're going to do
in life.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
That's their destination, that that's what
they're going to do in life,right?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, and so I.
I like to say that this idea oflike role taking or trying
things on in our mind, is a wayfor us as human beings to be
like.
Is this something I wouldreally do?
Am I, you know?
Am I content or satisfied?
In my current relationship,some people end up thinking
about other people and going.
I'm so glad.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I didn't end up with that person.
When I think about you knowother people.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I'm so glad I didn't end up with that person.
I feel that way, when I thinkabout you know other people, I'm
like that would have been adisaster, you know.
And so thinking about otherpeople or other relationships
isn't always about longing ordesire.
It may just be a way of likeevaluating your own choices,
your own decision making yourcurrent relationship and
(11:43):
concluding.
I have found the best fit forme, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
This person has become my soulmate.
I don't need those other people.
Yeah, exactly, all right.
Next one Um, is it normal tonot want to have sex with your
spouse?
Okay, this one this is kind of abig one right To jump into, um,
and I think sometimes peoplefeel so alone in these types of
issues, especially around thistopic.
(12:09):
It is normal to not want tohave sex with your spouse.
From time to time, right Likewhen I'm going over some of
these topics with couples, itmight be like, oh my goodness,
sometimes I'm just absolutelyexhausted from work, or like I
am spent with, like, the kids,or feel over touched, like it is
okay if there are these likeone off situations.
I think with all of thesethings, it's like if it becomes
(12:30):
a pattern, right Like sometimesit might be like hormones are
off.
I work with a lot of folks whotake SSRIs that can like disrupt
desire SSRIs that can likedisrupt desire.
Um, so good thing to like checkin on these things, um, if you
think it could be a medicalissue, to like talk to your
(12:50):
doctor about that, um, and tohave open conversations with
your spouse.
But I do think, like if youhave become unattracted to your
partner, if you like just do notwant any type of physical
intimacy with your partner, likethis is an area that needs to
be addressed and sometimes canalso be hard to address it in
(13:11):
couples therapy.
So, like I do have a lot ofindividuals who reach out to me
If some of these things aregoing on, to like address it
with somebody else, to feel likethere's a safe place to talk
about it, and to ask me, likefor some suggestions on how to
bring it up with our spouse orpartner.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Right, jenna.
I also think there is kind of abias here where, if we say,
well, who is more likely to wantto turn down sex If you're
looking at a heterosexualrelationship, there's this
assumption that it's often women.
But I work with lots of coupleswhere the men aren't interested
in sex and, again, absolutelyit can be for physical health
(13:50):
reasons.
It can be depression.
They're taking medications alot of times when I find that
men are like highly stressed atwork.
Um, that can also come homewith them.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Work stress zaps sexual desire.
I have found.
I mean I guess some peopleappreciate the release, but I
find in my therapy practice alot of people are saying like
the amount of, like burnout orstress from work like zaps that
desire.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I also will hear a lot from women that libido will
shift or change during pregnancy, so women will want to have
more sex while pregnant and themen want to decline.
And they will say like it's notthat I didn't find her
attractive, but like there was ababy in there and so that can
be a natural shift.
I see throughout marriage toois that when men have female
(14:40):
partners who are pregnant, it,you know there's some discomfort
with that, yeah Well, and withall of these things.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I think sometimes, like you read news articles or
just different articles andthey're like so strong, like
women like their desireincreases during pregnancy.
Well then there are some womenwho like have the opposite
experience, and then they feellike shame because that that's
not their experience.
So this is why we like want tohave these open conversations,
(15:06):
and I see the same with likeheterosexual relationships.
Like when you read, or likepeople will often say that like
men are the ones who alwaysinitiate, but I work with a lot
of couples who, it's like thefemale partner is like I am the
only one to initiate in thisheterosexual relationship, so
like there are always outliersright, and we want to normalize
that.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Right, and I often find when couples talk to me
about this, that at least one ofthe partners doesn't have
anybody else to talk to aboutthis.
Like I'm like, do you talk withyour friends about what's going
on in their sex lives?
And one of the partners will belike oh my gosh, no, yeah Well,
sometimes people like don'twant their partners to talk
(15:47):
about these things with theirfriends.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
So they feel isolated in that way.
Sometimes people are like theway my friends talk about these
things, because I am the outlier, it doesn't feel safe to bring
up like oh, if all of mygirlfriends are saying like
their husband's alwaysinitiating, always wanting sex,
and like in their relationshipthey're the ones who desire it
more, they're the ones whoinitiate, they're like I don't
feel, like I can bring that upRight.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
That's why it's great to either go see a couple's
therapist or listen to ourpodcast.
That's why it's great to eithergo see a couples therapist or
listen to our podcast.
So you can feel validated andnot so alone.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
And that's some of the feedback we're getting.
Right Is people are coming tous and saying like, thank you
for like opening up theseconversations because you can
drive to work without the kidsin the car.
So these conversations mightnot be appropriate for them, but
to feel normalized.
So that is our hope that itfeels like you're talking with
some girlfriends about some ofthese things, if it doesn't feel
(16:41):
safe to to do so.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Right?
And last, is it normal?
Question is, is it normal foronly one person to want to work
on the relationship?
And I would say absolutely yes.
I see this all the time, andespecially where you know.
We live in a society wherewomen are educated, encouraged,
(17:03):
socialized to put theirinterpersonal relationships at
the top of their priority list.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yes, they're the ones initiating the check-ins.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Like women are socialized to take care of
others and their relationships,but we know that relationships
are healthiest when bothpartners are invested in making
it work.
So it doesn't mean that youhave to check in like every
single day and be like, how arewe doing here?
What work do we need to do onthe relationship?
(17:33):
But I do think that if oneperson says, hey, this is not
working for me, or like I, weneed to improve something or
change something that you on theother side is, the other
partner is risk receptive tothat.
And my kind of sadness withrespect to this topic is that I
(17:54):
will often see couples andcouples therapy where it is too
late.
So the story behind that isI'll see a couple.
I can tell that they are maybeeven on the brink of divorce.
One partner just looks angry,shut down, cause they've done
all the work for years and theyhave even said I asked for
(18:14):
couples therapy two, three, fouryears ago.
I asked for these changes, Iasked for date nights, whatever
these things are, and theydidn't take me seriously.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And now I've said I'm leaving and they all, and
sometimes that's when somebodyjumps into action, and so this
is one of the things I'm doingwith couples, like when they're
coming in premarital.
I feel like a lot more peopleare reaching out to me and my
practice to say like, hey, wewant to get ahead of some of
these things.
We're about to go through atransition of having a baby or
you know just different things.
(18:44):
They'll reach out earlier on inthe relationship, which I love.
That means what we're doing isworking, nari Um, but I am
coaching, like and this is inheterosexual relationships or
even in same sex relationships,where one person's doing more of
the work I'm saying, hey, likepartner who doesn't tend to
check in, I want you to put iton your calendar.
Like I'm going to come homeafter work and make this a part
(19:07):
of our routine to say like, howwas your day?
How are we doing anything weneed to discuss in the
relationship?
Like I try to shift it to theother partner, and that one like
this is where, like you, don'talways have to do these major
over the top gestures in yourrelationship.
Sometimes just making like aroutine check-in if it's
typically a responsibility ofthe other partner, can make a
(19:29):
huge difference in therelationship.
So if you are in a heterosexualrelationship and you're uh, you
are the male partner and yourfemale partner tends to do this
check-in, I'm calling you intoaction to start doing the
check-ins.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Right.
I often prescribe to my coupleswhat I call a state of the
union and I will say just makeit part of your Sunday afternoon
routine and you can.
You can do lots of differentthings.
You can talk about scheduling,you can talk about like things
to look forward to or like what.
What do we feel connected Like?
(20:06):
How's our sex life going?
Like, this doesn't just have tobe all about emotions.
It can be lots of things.
But when you check in aboutthose things, the work of a
relationship is the emotionalwork and it is, you know,
intimacy, but it's also, a lotof times for our modern families
, the work of managing familiesand feeling like partners.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
And this is where, like you can be more intentional
with your relationship.
Like the Gottmans talk about,like the state of the union
meeting that should happen oncea week, like, carve out an hour
once a week to talk about, like,what does our upcoming week
look like?
Anything we need to discuss,you know, say, finances or sex
or one of those topics tends tobe like an issue.
(20:46):
Try and get ahead of it ratherthan just dealing with it like
when it comes up and when peopleare emotional.
So I think that is such helpfuladvice, right.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
And just to give a shout out to the guys, Jenna, I
am finding a lot of my maleclients really do care about the
emotional health of theirrelationship and they will say,
like my relationship is soimportant to me, I want to have
a fulfilling marriage or, youknow, partnership.
But sometimes they don't alwaysknow how to execute.
(21:17):
Yeah, they don't always havethe tools, which is what we're
doing here.
We're trying to give you thetools Like okay, this is what
you can do.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
You can check in.
This is what a check-in lookslike.
You can call a state of theunion meeting.
This is what it looks like,cause we know we know that they
do care.
So, yes, I think that that isit for today, so we're going to
wrap things up.
We like to keep these episodesshort and sweet so you can
(21:43):
tackle them on your commute.
So stay tuned for next time.
Welcome to another episode of the Coupled Podcast.
In today's episode, we'rediving into some of the most
common questions we get fromcouples.
Is it normal to be annoyed withyour partner?
Is it okay to enjoy spendingtime away from your partner?
And what if you just don't wantto have sex with your spouse?
These are questions that manypeople often feel too
(00:20):
embarrassed to tackle or askwith friends, so we're going to
jump right into it and talkabout them.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
So the first question we often get is is it normal to
be annoyed with your partner?
And I'm like, uh, I hope soit's hard to live with somebody.
It really is, and I think thatwe we have to just acknowledge
that that living with someoneelse is not an easy task.
Um, that that living withsomeone else is not an easy task
(00:50):
no one's perfect, and evenshort of the idea of perfection
is that there are just lots ofdifferent ways of living, of
doing laundry, of eating, of youknow existing together, and so
living with someone else, evensomeone you've known for a long
time, can bring in a lot offrustration.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, and I can give like a very recent example of
this I usually put my laptop ona table in our bedroom, like if
I have to do some work outsideof being at the office.
And the other morning I likewent to go get my laptop and I
was like I didn't see it on thetable and so I was like, oh, I
must've left it at the office.
I got to the office, wasn'tthere.
(01:27):
So during my lunch break mylike one precious hour I drove
back home.
I get there, my husband had putlike a bin of socks on top of
the laptop.
So like, when I glanced at it,it seems like my laptop wasn't
there, but it was still.
Like that's a common annoyance,right?
Like that is annoying, butsomething I was able to get over
, right?
Like I think the piece here isthat, like you don't want to be
(01:51):
constantly annoyed with yourpartner, right, like that might
be an indication thatsomething's off in the
relationship.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Right.
Acknowledge at least this is acoping skill I use, jenna that
some of the things I get annoyedwith my partner about aren't
necessarily bad or wrong.
Right that I know, for example,I have some pretty strong
preferences about things that myspouse doesn't necessarily have
(02:21):
, and it doesn't mean that he'sannoying me on purpose.
It's just that I have thesevery strong preferences and
everyone can't live according tomy standards.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Right.
Well, and this is where, like,I feel like one of the like kind
of things I do to coach coupleson is like differentiating
between like intention versusperception.
Like I'm perceiving this aslike an annoyance, but like my
partner did not put their sockson top of my laptop to be like
Like I'm perceiving this as likean annoyance, but like my
partner did not put their sockson top of my laptop to be like
I'm really gonna, you know workday today Like and that's where
(02:53):
we got to give our partners somegrace too, cause it is.
It's hard to live with somebody,it's hard to be in a long-term
relationship.
It's normal to get annoyed,right Like, it's very normal.
I think this is where it can behealthy to like have some space
to be able to be like.
This was so annoying, um, butif it's constant like sometimes
I do see this like constantannoyance with a partner, and
(03:15):
sometimes people are unhappy intheir relationship.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yes, absolutely.
I will often pick up on thatacross many sessions with the
couple and then kind of ask thequestion are you annoyed or are
you resentful?
Yeah, you know, and then a lotof times that partner will be
like.
You know what I do haveresentment.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I didn't want to say it, but you know, and here are
all the reasons why, and that'swhere it's good to like, really
differentiate, like, is thisjust common annoyance or is this
, like I am deeply unhappy and Ifeel like sometimes with
girlfriends, I can kind of pickup on that too.
It's like, yeah, we can all saylike, oh, I'm annoyed by this,
but if it's like this constantannoyance with the spouse or
(03:58):
partner, probably an indicationthat some work needs to be done,
absolutely All right, is itokay to enjoy spending time away
from your partner One of mymost favorite topics to talk
about.
Like, even in our course, wehave a time together versus time
apart, and I think this issomething that just, I think
we're socialized to think thatlike, oh, if you're in a happy
(04:19):
and healthy relationship, likeyou spend all of your time
together and like I just I tendto disagree with that Like I
think it is healthy to have someindividuality in a relationship
.
I think we come intorelationships with friendships
and hobbies and different thingsthat we like to do, and I think
that's perfectly okay to stillhave some of that when you're in
a long-term relationship.
(04:41):
So I think I think it's great,I think it can help us like
recharge, like I know when I goout with my girlfriends and come
back to my household, I'm like,ooh, I'm like refreshed and
have new conversations that Ican talk to my spouse or partner
about.
I will say like one of theindicators that like a couple
(05:01):
might be headed for a divorce.
So, like what I'm seeing whencouples are like on the brink of
divorce is that sometimesthey're leading like completely
separate lives.
And I would say, that can beproblematic, like if you don't
watch any shows together, ifyou're not even like having
conversations, if, like you'redoing totally separate things.
I think that can be problematic.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Right, jenna, I needed this advice when I was
first married.
So this was the biggestconflict my husband and I had
when we were first married,because I'm an extrovert and
he's an introvert and I wantedhim to do everything with me.
Every party I got invited toget together.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
That man must have been exhausted.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And he has good boundaries.
So he would say no and I feltlike devastated like you don't
love me and he was spending afair amount of time with me, but
he didn't want to go to all theextra things that we were
invited to.
And now, looking back at thattime in our lives, I also
realized that because of hiswork schedule, I did naturally
(06:08):
get a lot of time apart from him.
So if he would work till 10o'clock at night, I could come
home, order my Chinese food andwatch my TV shows and have some
time to myself.
But a lot of times when he wasoff, I was off too.
So he didn't get that time.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And he needed it Right.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So I do think that it's important to look at and
evaluate throughout your livesthat, whether it's changing work
schedules or having children,is.
Another mitigating factor inthis is that both people get
some time for themselves torecharge and refresh.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
And I think a lot of these things, like when I really
dig into them with couples andtherapy.
People like attach meaning tobehaviors Like oh, my partner
wants to spend time away from meand they get so hurt by it.
But like I feel like I'm tryingto help them come up with some
different reframes, like this isimportant for your partner.
It does not like both thingscan exist at the same time.
(07:05):
Like they can love you, theycan love spending time with you
and they can enjoy playing around of golf with their friends
too.
Like both things can be true atthe same time.
Um, and yeah, I feel like timeapart and time together like
look different at differentphases of the relationship.
Like my husband and I have beenseparated by like oceans, right
(07:26):
.
Like we've lived in differentcountries.
Like right now we're parentingthree kids together.
So like we're spending a lot oftime together.
So this is also going to lookdifferent at different times in
your relationship.
And I think this is just anarea to communicate and like the
way you communicate about thesethings I think is really
important too.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Absolutely.
Another question about is thisnormal?
Is and this is going to be ahard one for some people- I know
People are going to have a hardtime digesting that Okay.
So brace yourselves wherever youare.
If you're driving, take a deepbreath.
But should you be worried ifyou're thinking about other
people?
Or do you question is yourpartner thinking about other
(08:07):
people?
And I want to say, um, this isnormal and it's going to happen.
Just because you're in acommitted relationship doesn't
mean that you're not going tofind other people attractive or
interesting.
We're human.
We're human.
Yes, yeah, we're curious.
So it is okay or normal to havea fleeting attraction or even
(08:33):
just maybe process like whatwould my life have been like if
I had married someone like thator ended up in a relationship
like that?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I know you're getting a reaction out of people.
I know I've like talked aboutthis in session with folks and I
can see like people's responseto this and some people do have
strong opinions about this andsometimes that is also like
attached to their like religiousviews.
That like it is not okay.
So if you believe that, allright.
(09:02):
I think it is normal to haveattractions to other people.
To think about other people, Iwill say sometimes when people
are dissatisfied in theircurrent relationship, it's
happening more frequently ormore frequently than they're
comfortable with.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Right, yeah, I would say so, and I think there's a
difference between like acuriosity or thinking about
those things, but also beingreal with yourself, and being
like because I have thiscuriosity, I need to be on my
guard when I'm around them.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Absolutely.
Yeah, Draw up some healthyboundaries.
But there are like sextherapists out there that will
even like, are proponents ofthey call it like inviting in
the third, Like it's.
It can be exciting to your owncurrent relationship if you like
(09:57):
.
Think about other people, youknow that can add a little
healthy amount of jealousy andexcitement to the relationship.
So there are people out therewho are like proponents of this,
and I'm not saying inviting athird, meaning like a three, you
know like don't don't put wordsin my mouth.
Yes, that like.
Just normalize that Right.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
One thing I like to use as an example to explain to
couples about this, when we'relike working through this in a
relationship is, you know, whenchildren are young and even
through like adolescent years,they try on things like playing,
pretend or imagination, or likethey even teens, you'll see
(10:40):
them try on.
Oh, I went on through like alittle goth stage, you know like
those kinds of things A preppystage and it's their way of like
trying things on to see if itwould fit or like how they would
feel in those situations.
It doesn't mean like when yourchild pretends that they want to
be an airline pilot, thatthat's what they're going to do
in life.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
That's their destination, that that's what
they're going to do in life,right?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, and so I.
I like to say that this idea oflike role taking or trying
things on in our mind, is a wayfor us as human beings to be
like.
Is this something I wouldreally do?
Am I, you know?
Am I content or satisfied?
In my current relationship,some people end up thinking
about other people and going.
I'm so glad.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I didn't end up with that person.
When I think about you knowother people.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I'm so glad I didn't end up with that person.
I feel that way, when I thinkabout you know other people, I'm
like that would have been adisaster, you know.
And so thinking about otherpeople or other relationships
isn't always about longing ordesire.
It may just be a way of likeevaluating your own choices,
your own decision making yourcurrent relationship and
(11:43):
concluding.
I have found the best fit forme, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
This person has become my soulmate.
I don't need those other people.
Yeah, exactly, all right.
Next one Um, is it normal tonot want to have sex with your
spouse?
Okay, this one this is kind of abig one right To jump into, um,
and I think sometimes peoplefeel so alone in these types of
issues, especially around thistopic.
(12:09):
It is normal to not want tohave sex with your spouse.
From time to time, right Likewhen I'm going over some of
these topics with couples, itmight be like, oh my goodness,
sometimes I'm just absolutelyexhausted from work, or like I
am spent with, like, the kids,or feel over touched, like it is
okay if there are these likeone off situations.
I think with all of thesethings, it's like if it becomes
(12:30):
a pattern, right Like sometimesit might be like hormones are
off.
I work with a lot of folks whotake SSRIs that can like disrupt
desire SSRIs that can likedisrupt desire.
Um, so good thing to like checkin on these things, um, if you
think it could be a medicalissue, to like talk to your
(12:50):
doctor about that, um, and tohave open conversations with
your spouse.
But I do think, like if youhave become unattracted to your
partner, if you like just do notwant any type of physical
intimacy with your partner, likethis is an area that needs to
be addressed and sometimes canalso be hard to address it in
(13:11):
couples therapy.
So, like I do have a lot ofindividuals who reach out to me
If some of these things aregoing on, to like address it
with somebody else, to feel likethere's a safe place to talk
about it, and to ask me, likefor some suggestions on how to
bring it up with our spouse orpartner.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Right, jenna.
I also think there is kind of abias here where, if we say,
well, who is more likely to wantto turn down sex If you're
looking at a heterosexualrelationship, there's this
assumption that it's often women.
But I work with lots of coupleswhere the men aren't interested
in sex and, again, absolutelyit can be for physical health
(13:50):
reasons.
It can be depression.
They're taking medications alot of times when I find that
men are like highly stressed atwork.
Um, that can also come homewith them.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Work stress zaps sexual desire.
I have found.
I mean I guess some peopleappreciate the release, but I
find in my therapy practice alot of people are saying like
the amount of, like burnout orstress from work like zaps that
desire.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I also will hear a lot from women that libido will
shift or change during pregnancy, so women will want to have
more sex while pregnant and themen want to decline.
And they will say like it's notthat I didn't find her
attractive, but like there was ababy in there and so that can
be a natural shift.
I see throughout marriage toois that when men have female
(14:40):
partners who are pregnant, it,you know there's some discomfort
with that, yeah Well, and withall of these things.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I think sometimes, like you read news articles or
just different articles andthey're like so strong, like
women like their desireincreases during pregnancy.
Well then there are some womenwho like have the opposite
experience, and then they feellike shame because that that's
not their experience.
So this is why we like want tohave these open conversations,
(15:06):
and I see the same with likeheterosexual relationships.
Like when you read, or likepeople will often say that like
men are the ones who alwaysinitiate, but I work with a lot
of couples who, it's like thefemale partner is like I am the
only one to initiate in thisheterosexual relationship, so
like there are always outliersright, and we want to normalize
that.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Right, and I often find when couples talk to me
about this, that at least one ofthe partners doesn't have
anybody else to talk to aboutthis.
Like I'm like, do you talk withyour friends about what's going
on in their sex lives?
And one of the partners will belike oh my gosh, no, yeah Well,
sometimes people like don'twant their partners to talk
(15:47):
about these things with theirfriends.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
So they feel isolated in that way.
Sometimes people are like theway my friends talk about these
things, because I am the outlier, it doesn't feel safe to bring
up like oh, if all of mygirlfriends are saying like
their husband's alwaysinitiating, always wanting sex,
and like in their relationshipthey're the ones who desire it
more, they're the ones whoinitiate, they're like I don't
feel, like I can bring that upRight.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
That's why it's great to either go see a couple's
therapist or listen to ourpodcast.
That's why it's great to eithergo see a couples therapist or
listen to our podcast.
So you can feel validated andnot so alone.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
And that's some of the feedback we're getting.
Right Is people are coming tous and saying like, thank you
for like opening up theseconversations because you can
drive to work without the kidsin the car.
So these conversations mightnot be appropriate for them, but
to feel normalized.
So that is our hope that itfeels like you're talking with
some girlfriends about some ofthese things, if it doesn't feel
(16:41):
safe to to do so.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Right?
And last, is it normal?
Question is, is it normal foronly one person to want to work
on the relationship?
And I would say absolutely yes.
I see this all the time, andespecially where you know.
We live in a society wherewomen are educated, encouraged,
(17:03):
socialized to put theirinterpersonal relationships at
the top of their priority list.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yes, they're the ones initiating the check-ins.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Like women are socialized to take care of
others and their relationships,but we know that relationships
are healthiest when bothpartners are invested in making
it work.
So it doesn't mean that youhave to check in like every
single day and be like, how arewe doing here?
What work do we need to do onthe relationship?
(17:33):
But I do think that if oneperson says, hey, this is not
working for me, or like I, weneed to improve something or
change something that you on theother side is, the other
partner is risk receptive tothat.
And my kind of sadness withrespect to this topic is that I
(17:54):
will often see couples andcouples therapy where it is too
late.
So the story behind that isI'll see a couple.
I can tell that they are maybeeven on the brink of divorce.
One partner just looks angry,shut down, cause they've done
all the work for years and theyhave even said I asked for
(18:14):
couples therapy two, three, fouryears ago.
I asked for these changes, Iasked for date nights, whatever
these things are, and theydidn't take me seriously.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And now I've said I'm leaving and they all, and
sometimes that's when somebodyjumps into action, and so this
is one of the things I'm doingwith couples, like when they're
coming in premarital.
I feel like a lot more peopleare reaching out to me and my
practice to say like, hey, wewant to get ahead of some of
these things.
We're about to go through atransition of having a baby or
you know just different things.
(18:44):
They'll reach out earlier on inthe relationship, which I love.
That means what we're doing isworking, nari Um, but I am
coaching, like and this is inheterosexual relationships or
even in same sex relationships,where one person's doing more of
the work I'm saying, hey, likepartner who doesn't tend to
check in, I want you to put iton your calendar.
Like I'm going to come homeafter work and make this a part
(19:07):
of our routine to say like, howwas your day?
How are we doing anything weneed to discuss in the
relationship?
Like I try to shift it to theother partner, and that one like
this is where, like you, don'talways have to do these major
over the top gestures in yourrelationship.
Sometimes just making like aroutine check-in if it's
typically a responsibility ofthe other partner, can make a
(19:29):
huge difference in therelationship.
So if you are in a heterosexualrelationship and you're uh, you
are the male partner and yourfemale partner tends to do this
check-in, I'm calling you intoaction to start doing the
check-ins.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Right.
I often prescribe to my coupleswhat I call a state of the
union and I will say just makeit part of your Sunday afternoon
routine and you can.
You can do lots of differentthings.
You can talk about scheduling,you can talk about like things
to look forward to or like what.
What do we feel connected Like?
(20:06):
How's our sex life going?
Like, this doesn't just have tobe all about emotions.
It can be lots of things.
But when you check in aboutthose things, the work of a
relationship is the emotionalwork and it is, you know,
intimacy, but it's also, a lotof times for our modern families
, the work of managing familiesand feeling like partners.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
And this is where, like you can be more intentional
with your relationship.
Like the Gottmans talk about,like the state of the union
meeting that should happen oncea week, like, carve out an hour
once a week to talk about, like,what does our upcoming week
look like?
Anything we need to discuss,you know, say, finances or sex
or one of those topics tends tobe like an issue.
(20:46):
Try and get ahead of it ratherthan just dealing with it like
when it comes up and when peopleare emotional.
So I think that is such helpfuladvice, right.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
And just to give a shout out to the guys, Jenna, I
am finding a lot of my maleclients really do care about the
emotional health of theirrelationship and they will say,
like my relationship is soimportant to me, I want to have
a fulfilling marriage or, youknow, partnership.
But sometimes they don't alwaysknow how to execute.
(21:17):
Yeah, they don't always havethe tools, which is what we're
doing here.
We're trying to give you thetools Like okay, this is what
you can do.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
You can check in.
This is what a check-in lookslike.
You can call a state of theunion meeting.
This is what it looks like,cause we know we know that they
do care.
So, yes, I think that that isit for today, so we're going to
wrap things up.
We like to keep these episodesshort and sweet so you can
(21:43):
tackle them on your commute.
So stay tuned for next time.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.