July 16, 2025 • 21 mins
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Season 2 Episode 6: The Aftermath: Inside the Betrayed Partner's Experience in Infidelity
The discovery of an affair creates seismic shifts in a relationship, leaving the betrayed partner to navigate a landscape of trauma, confusion, and painful questioning. As experienced couples therapists specializing in affair recovery, we pull back the curtain on what really happens in the aftermath of infidelity for the person who's been cheated on.
Sleep disruption emerges as one of the most immediate and distressing effects, as betrayed partners find themselves unable to rest in a space that no longer feels safe. Many report developing hypervigilance, especially if they discovered the affair during nighttime hours. This sleep disturbance creates a cascade effect, diminishing emotional regulation during an already overwhelming time.
Trauma-like symptoms frequently emerge – flashbacks, triggers, and intrusive thoughts that can persist for months or even years after discovery. Something as simple as a television show featuring infidelity can suddenly trigger intense emotional responses. The betrayed partner experiences perhaps the cruelest aspect of infidelity: the retroactive reinterpretation of cherished memories.
We explore the surprising obsession many betrayed partners develop with the affair partner. Though often accompanied by shame, this represents a normal psychological response as they try to make sense of the betrayal through comparison and information-gathering. The impact on self-identity proves equally profound – questions about attractiveness, worthiness, and what they might have done differently plague their thoughts.
For the betrayed, affair recovery requires tremendous courage. Many find healing through reinvesting in themselves – pursuing education, career advancement, fitness, or other self-improvement areas. We recommend both individual and couples therapy for the most effective healing journey. While challenging, with proper support and commitment from both partners, relationships can not only survive infidelity but sometimes emerge stronger through the difficult work of rebuilding trust and connection.
Dr. Jenna and Dr. Nari are the Licensed Marriage and Family Therapists behind the Coupled Podcast. They both have private practices where they work with individuals, couples, and families in Florida. The two are ready to shake up the world of couples therapy and want to extend resources beyond the couples they see in their private practices.
If you like this episode and want to know more about taking the next step to improve your communication, connection, and intimacy, head over to our websites to learn more about our Staying Coupled and Getting Coupled courses. These online courses give you the flexibility to improve your relationship from the comfort and convenience of your home. The Staying Coupled course is for couples who want to do the work to connect, communicate, and have the healthiest relationship possible. The Getting Coupled course is for premarital couples wanting to learn the essentials for a successful marriage. Topics in both courses include the main issues couples face:
- Communication
- Family Boundaries
- Family Finances
- Sex
- Family Planning
- Division of Labor
- Couple Activities
For more information, visit drjennascott.com/courses or drnarijeter.com/courses
Disclaimer: This podcast is not a substitute for therapy. If you’re struggling, we encourage you to seek support from a licensed therapist in your state. Our relationship suggestions and content may not be applicable or advised for relation
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right.
On today's episode we aretalking about the betrayed
profile.
So as couples therapists, weboth work in affair recovery,
both with individual clients andwith couples, and today we are
focusing on some commonexperiences of the partner who
is betrayed during the affair.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
All right, Jenna, let's talk about some of the
common complaints and trends wesee when working with a partner
who was cheated on.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
So when meeting with either the individual or when
I'm meeting with the couple andI'm focused on the betrayed
partner one of the most commoncomplaints I get is that their
sleep is disrupted.
And this is really commonbecause a lot of times to sleep
with somebody we have to feelsafe and affairs and cheating
can really disrupt that feelingof being safe in the
(00:51):
relationship.
So one of the most commoncomplaints I get is that people
just cannot sleep.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yes, Jenna, and as we know, to sleep contributes to
your mental and emotionalwellness.
So when you're not sleepingthen it's really hard to be
present the next day and likemanage your emotions.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It has this like spiral effect, I think, on
people's overall mental health.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Another thing I've had the betrayed partner tell me
is that they can't sleepbecause they discovered their
partner's infidelity like in themiddle of the night.
So they woke up in the middleof the night and saw that their
partner was on their phone, oryou know, just like being
secretive right.
Doing those types of behaviors.
So now they have this likehypervigilance, where their body
(01:38):
is waking them up in the middleof the night to check on their
partner.
Like what are they doing sothat can also be destructive to
their sleep pattern.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, and one of the things we see is that, like, the
act of discovering an affaircan be traumatic, and so a lot
of times we'll see symptoms thatare similar to somebody who
experiences trauma thathypervigilance, having a
difficult time sleeping, eating,just being all consumed by this
event.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, and that leads into the second point, which are
a lot of people experiencetrauma-like symptoms.
That idea of having flashbackstriggers.
They will say sights sounds,smells triggers, they will say
(02:30):
sights sounds, smells.
Tv shows, anniversaries, dates,clothing, spaces, all of those
things will make them feel kindof like that panic and they
start associating that with theinfidelity yeah, and sometimes
like we see that right away but,I will say, even working with
couples, like years later, someof those things can bring them
back to those same feelings.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
But I will say, even working with couples, like years
later, some of those things canbring them back to those same
feelings, like I will havecouples, like years later they
might say, oh, we've workedthrough an affair, but there
will be TV shows that displayaffairs and appropriate behavior
and it brings them right backto that's one of the biggest
complaints I hear from mybetrayed partners is that they
(03:07):
did not realize how many TVshows have infidelity as part of
the storyline and then theyfeel like they cannot watch
anything on television withtheir partner absolutely, I hear
that too.
One of the other things things Isee is this piece where you
look back on the relationshipand you start to see events
(03:30):
differently now that you knowabout the affair.
So you might be going throughfamily photos and say, oh, I
thought we were happy, like wewere smiling, we were on
vacation together.
I thought that this was like areally happy time in our
relationship.
And then later they discoveredthat an affair was happening
during that time and so theystart to look back differently
(03:52):
on a lot of those memories.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Absolutely, and questioning too, like, were we
were on vacation, were youtalking to your affair partner
while we were on this trip?
Or they do this layering of alot of times people will look at
phone records so they'll lookback at pictures and then
they'll go check the phonerecords and be like we were on
this, you know, anniversary trip, but you were still calling
(04:15):
your affair partner.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
yeah, and there's like this obsession with the
timeline right and needing toknow those details, and that's
where I like really do caution,the betrayed partner I'm like.
I think it's it's very normalto have all of these questions,
but I do usually say, like,whatever you find out, you can't
like unknow.
So like let's really beintentional about like what
(04:38):
questions we're asking and whatinformation is shared, because
you will look back differentlyon some of these memories and
you'll also think differently ofyour partner too.
Like you will uncover probablymore and more lies.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Right.
I believe it's pretty normal,you know, when you discover the
affair, to like want to know thetimeline and maybe do your own
level of sleuthing.
But I will often say, okay,like you did your sleuthing,
let's not keep those phonerecords, let's not like look at
them every day, like it's timeto put them away.
And a lot of my betrayedpartners need to hear that.
(05:16):
I think like they trust me as atherapist and trust that I'm
looking out for them.
So when I say, okay, like youlooked at the phone records.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
You got the validation that you needed that
the affair was happening.
Well, that's what I think theyneed is like that validation,
because so much of this is likethey're questioning reality and
their own ideas of like whatthey thought was going on at the
time.
So I do think having somethingtangible, like phone records, is
really important, but theinvitation to say like let's put
them away at a certain pointbecause it's not going to
benefit them.
Or, if they do want toreconcile, it's not going to
(05:50):
benefit the relationship eitherAbsolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
That's perfectly stated, Jenna.
Another I call this likehallmark symptom, I see and a
lot of times the betrayedpartner really feels ashamed for
admitting this is that theydevelop an obsession with the
affair partner.
So, whomever their partner hadan affair with, they all of a
sudden find themselves likewondering about this person,
(06:16):
like what did my partner likeabout them?
What did they find attractive?
They may engage in a lot ofcomparison like how is this
person like me or different fromme?
A lot of social media.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, I was going to ask you like what do you?
I mean, of course, social media, but I feel like one of the
things I've seen is also like ifthere are mutual, like trying
to get information from otherpeople on the affair partner.
Do you see that, too in yourpractice?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yes, absolutely yeah.
They don't even just develop anobsession with the affair
partner.
Do you see that too in yourpractice?
Yeah, absolutely yeah.
They don't even just develop anobsession with the affair
partner, but like who's theirfamily, who are their friends,
who are their social network.
And I think they're doing thisin an attempt to basically
understand the affair partner'skind of perspective.
Right, Because there is a thirdperson involved in this.
(07:04):
And sometimes people are like,well, you know, they didn't know
, like my partner was married,because there could have been
deception towards the affairpartner, or like how did they
feel about my partner?
So they're trying to understandnot just the other person as a
person, but that person's rolesand what were their motivations
(07:24):
to have an affair.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I think a lot of people do want to know, like how
their spouse or partner liketalked about their relationship.
Like if people were thinkingabout a separation or separate,
like were they telling the otherperson that they were divorced
or didn't have a spouse or apartner?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, I find a lot of people when they think about
the affair partner, if theysense that the affair partner
did not know that they werecheating with someone who was
married, they almost feel asense of relief, right Like, oh,
they didn't know, it's nottheir fault.
But when they know okay, thisperson knew that they were
(08:05):
married it feels like a doublebetrayal.
Even if that person was astranger, it's like you betrayed
our relationship as well.
You were complicit in that.
So it's another layer ofprocess and sometimes people
really like kind of lose faithin humanity when you're like, oh
my gosh, they knew, yeah, noabsolutely.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
It's like, even if you didn't know the person that
your spouse or partner cheatedon you with, sometimes you still
feel betrayed by them, right,even if it was this like neutral
person.
It's like, oh, they knew I wasin a relationship.
And yeah, absolutely.
I see that too.
One of the other things I seeis that it can just deeply
(08:47):
impact self-identity,self-esteem issues, feeling like
Was I not good enough?
Am I not attractive enough?
Like feeling self-conscious,sometimes after the affair.
I see a lot of that and that'swhere, like, just as a person, I
hurt for them because I'm likeit oftentimes is not about you,
(09:11):
but I can like feel that painthat they're experiencing and
how it's affecting their, theirself-esteem.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
And that can be really hard for them too, Cause
they will ask their partnerthose questions Like was I not
attractive enough, Was I notgood enough?
And their partner will say, no,like you are good enough, you
are attractive enough.
And they're like, then why?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
But it's hard to believe like right, it's hard to
say like, okay, I'm a, like mypartner is still attracted to me
, my partner loves me and theycheated on me, Like it's like
those two things can't exist.
And you know I see peoplegrapple and struggle with that
in in session.
Right what?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
else.
Um, so this goes back to likeobsession with the affair
partner and some of those traumasymptoms we were talking about,
but, uh, obsessive thinking.
They will find that the affairis the only thing they can think
about, even when they don'twant to and that is like when
you talk about that level ofempathy and heartbreak, Jenna.
that's where I feel like a lotof heartbreak for my betrayed
(10:13):
clients, cause they could belike I.
I'm having the best day, I'mstanding at my kitchen baking
and all of a sudden, out ofnowhere, it's like did he do
this or did she do that, likethey.
And then the intrusive thoughtsabout it?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, that they don't feel like they have control
over and like sometimes it islike they're.
They have so much likeobsessive thoughts about this
that they can't eat.
Like it's just like allconsuming.
Like they have so much likeobsessive thoughts about this
that they can't eat.
Like it's just like allconsuming.
Like they can't concentrate onwork.
They can't concentrate onanything but the affair,
especially like initially.
I always use like the metaphorof.
(10:47):
I've heard that it's similar tolike throwing a rock in the
water.
It's like it has these likeripple effects.
And like those first waves ofthe ripples are like really
intense and those like lessenover time, though it lasts.
Right like ripple effects andlike those first waves of the
ripples are like really intenseand those like lessen over time,
though it lasts right thetimeline and this is not like
precise or research based butjust based on observation.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I tell my clients the first four to eight weeks are
really tough with the traumasymptoms and the obsessive
thinking.
But typically after like eightweeks, after um discovery of the
affair, if you've been likeworking through it and you know,
feel safe in the relationshipagain to some degree, you'll see
that lesson over time and a lotof clients will tell me yeah,
(11:29):
the first like two months werereally hard but that over time
those, those obsessive thoughtsand like persistent negative
feelings do ease up, and thenthat provides them some relief.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, it won't be that intense forever.
I also find that there can be alot of like social consequences
for the betrayed partner,because what I see a lot of is
that, like, sometimes affairsstart in the workplace or like
in friendship groups and so allof a sudden feeling like I don't
want to go with my spouse totheir work event because I might
(12:03):
see that person or I don't wantto hang out with this group of
friends anymore because theaffair partner might be there.
So they feel like they're losingpieces of their social network
because of the cheating and theaffair and that feels super
unjust to them.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I've also seen the opposite of that, though, too,
jenna, where, especially if theaffair partner is in their work
or social setting, they'll sayto their partner, I want you to
take me to all the happy hoursor like I want to go Reestablish
that territory Right and thentheir partner may be a little
defensive, Like you never cameto these before.
Like why all of a sudden do youwant to now?
(12:43):
And they're saying because Iwant to be seen with you.
I want people to know ourrelationship is okay If their
partner's resistant.
That can create some insecurityin the relationship.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah Well, sometimes and I have seen this before when
I'm working with couplessomebody might say like they've
ended the affair, but sometimesthey might still be protecting
that affair partner and that canbe deeply hurtful and painful
for the betrayed partner.
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, the betrayed partner will say I'm not going
to confront them, I just want tobe seen with you.
But the betraying partner willsay, no, like I'm, I'm not going
to confront them, I just wantto be seen with you.
But the betraying partner willsay, no, like I'm, I'm afraid
you're going to confront them,you're going to cause a scene
and that's going to be in frontof my friends or my work and
nobody knows at work, you know.
So yeah, that can becomplicated.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Another kind of symptom or characteristic we see
is the betrayed partner feelslike they need to monitor or
just have control.
So they need constantreassurance to feel safe, and
that reassurance might come inthe form of like verbal
reassurance, like talking withtheir partner.
It may seem like all they wantto do is talk about the affair
(13:55):
and the timelines and thosetypes of things, but they also
want to monitor their partner'sphone, social media, know your
location.
You need to be calling me and,jenna, I'll ask you how you feel
about this.
But my kind of initial responseis it's good to open those
(14:16):
things up and be moretransparent initially to create
a sense of trust and safety, butthat's not a crutch we want to
lean on forever.
So absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
I offer very similar advice Like those things can
help in reestablishing trustlike knowing where your partner
is, because you are experiencingthis constant like um,
questioning and obsession, and Ido think it can help calm some
of that initially to say like,okay, my partner's open to me
(14:46):
checking their phone or seeingtheir texts or asking questions
or seeing their location, but Idon't think you can exist like
that forever.
Nobody wants to be in arelationship where they have to
constantly monitor the otherperson yeah, yeah.
I agree with that.
The last one I see is I seepeople wanting to like reinvest
(15:08):
in themselves, because I thinksometimes their own sense of
trust in themselves, their gut,can be questioned during, like,
the discovery of an affair, andI think sometimes people want to
like reclaim that self back.
So I might see people likewanting to go to the gym and
spend more time with self-care.
I think sometimes in like.
(15:30):
I specifically see this inheterosexual relationships where
the male partner might havedone the cheating and they might
have been the breadwinner aswell.
I see sometimes females want tocreate this like safety net of
like oh, I've been relying onthis person to financially
support me and they cheated onme and I'm not sure if this
relationship is going to last.
(15:50):
So, like I need to continueeducation or go get a career or
figure out how to make money sothat I know like I can be
independent and successfulwithout this person.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
If this relationship is not able to be repaired and
mended, yeah, gemma, and I thinkthat that self-care connects
back to addressing thoseself-esteem issues you were
talking about.
So if, for example, theirpartner cheated on them with
someone in the workplace andthey feel like maybe their
career has stalled or, you know,maybe I'm not as interesting as
(16:26):
the people my partner workswith, that reinvestment in
education or workplace or eventhings like fitness or hobbies
or whatever is another way Ithink of like trying to become,
to build themselves up, but toalso become alluring to their
partner right.
If I become more interesting,more attractive like if I have
(16:47):
things going on that my partnerdoesn't always know about, maybe
they'll find some attraction tome?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, absolutely, and when I'm working with the
betrayed partner individually intherapy, I usually encourage
them to do some of that, like dothings that make you feel good
about yourself and like whereyou can build back some of that
self-esteem and confidence.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Absolutely, jenna.
I think that, as I think aboutthis episode and the previous
episode we did on the cheaterprofile, one thing I want to
communicate is that, as atherapist who works with people
who have dealt with infidelity,we have a lot of empathy for
people on both sides.
We know that this isn't easy,that the betraying partner
(17:33):
carries a lot of negativefeelings, shame and guilt, and
maybe also felt things likeloneliness and loss, you know,
leading up to or through theaffair and even after the affair
, and at the same time, we havea lot of empathy for the person
being betrayed, right Like bothpeople are hurting.
So, as far as couples therapygoes, one stigma I think that
(17:57):
comes with that, that is, ifyou've suffered from an affair,
we're going to blame one partneror the other.
And that's not our goal, right?
We want you to come in, we wantyou to feel safe and secure and
we want to meet you both whereyou're at and help you navigate
this trauma together.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
And we're familiar with the work that needs to be
done.
If you all want to repair therelationship, and that's what
we're we're focused on, I dousually recommend like if this
is new discovery that theespecially the betrayed partner
does get some individual therapyand support too.
I do think that can be sohelpful because as the therapist
(18:39):
, you are focused on taking careof the relationship and not
just one party, and the betrayedperson can feel like you know I
need this space to help me withall that I'm going through and
I think that's understandableand I think a way to balance
that is to have individual andcouple therapy.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, Jenna, wouldn't you say it's pretty common in
your experience that if you'reworking with a couple for
infidelity that they each havetheir own individual therapist?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, and I always say like I know that can be
incredibly expensive, right?
Especially if insurance is notcovering the cost of therapy.
So sometimes I will say, likehere are some clinics where,
like you can both get anindividual therapist and a
couples therapist, and maybethey work on a sliding scale fee
because people can really rackup some therapy expenses when
(19:31):
they're both seeing individualand couples therapists each week
, and oftentimes that is likewhat is needed at the onset of
the discovery of an affair.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, but it's my experience.
When those couples are doingtherapy couples therapy and
individual therapy I feel likethey just make more progress
right, oh, absolutely, yeah,that getting into treatment
sooner and really digging insetting up boundaries, working
on healing.
The sooner you do that and themore I would say intensely, or
sooner you do that, and the moreI would say intensely or
(20:03):
consistently you do that, I seethe progress moving a lot faster
than when people like reallykind of rely on just couples
therapy.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, absolutely, because sometimes, like what we
see in couples therapy issometimes the individuals in the
couple relationship havediffering needs and, like we
focused on each one of theseprofiles, and they are there are
a lot of differences therebetween, like, the person who
was cheating and the person whowas cheated on.
So I think one way to resolvethat is to have individual
(20:34):
therapy too.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Well, I know, jenna, we have so much to say about
infidelity.
It's such a complex topic, butwe are wrapping it up for today.
Don't forget to subscribe toour podcast so you don't miss
another episode.
See you next time.
All right.
On today's episode we aretalking about the betrayed
profile.
So as couples therapists, weboth work in affair recovery,
both with individual clients andwith couples, and today we are
focusing on some commonexperiences of the partner who
is betrayed during the affair.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
All right, Jenna, let's talk about some of the
common complaints and trends wesee when working with a partner
who was cheated on.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
So when meeting with either the individual or when
I'm meeting with the couple andI'm focused on the betrayed
partner one of the most commoncomplaints I get is that their
sleep is disrupted.
And this is really commonbecause a lot of times to sleep
with somebody we have to feelsafe and affairs and cheating
can really disrupt that feelingof being safe in the
(00:51):
relationship.
So one of the most commoncomplaints I get is that people
just cannot sleep.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yes, Jenna, and as we know, to sleep contributes to
your mental and emotionalwellness.
So when you're not sleepingthen it's really hard to be
present the next day and likemanage your emotions.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It has this like spiral effect, I think, on
people's overall mental health.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Another thing I've had the betrayed partner tell me
is that they can't sleepbecause they discovered their
partner's infidelity like in themiddle of the night.
So they woke up in the middleof the night and saw that their
partner was on their phone, oryou know, just like being
secretive right.
Doing those types of behaviors.
So now they have this likehypervigilance, where their body
(01:38):
is waking them up in the middleof the night to check on their
partner.
Like what are they doing sothat can also be destructive to
their sleep pattern.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, and one of the things we see is that, like, the
act of discovering an affaircan be traumatic, and so a lot
of times we'll see symptoms thatare similar to somebody who
experiences trauma thathypervigilance, having a
difficult time sleeping, eating,just being all consumed by this
event.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, and that leads into the second point, which are
a lot of people experiencetrauma-like symptoms.
That idea of having flashbackstriggers.
They will say sights sounds,smells triggers, they will say
(02:30):
sights sounds, smells.
Tv shows, anniversaries, dates,clothing, spaces, all of those
things will make them feel kindof like that panic and they
start associating that with theinfidelity yeah, and sometimes
like we see that right away but,I will say, even working with
couples, like years later, someof those things can bring them
back to those same feelings.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
But I will say, even working with couples, like years
later, some of those things canbring them back to those same
feelings, like I will havecouples, like years later they
might say, oh, we've workedthrough an affair, but there
will be TV shows that displayaffairs and appropriate behavior
and it brings them right backto that's one of the biggest
complaints I hear from mybetrayed partners is that they
(03:07):
did not realize how many TVshows have infidelity as part of
the storyline and then theyfeel like they cannot watch
anything on television withtheir partner absolutely, I hear
that too.
One of the other things things Isee is this piece where you
look back on the relationshipand you start to see events
(03:30):
differently now that you knowabout the affair.
So you might be going throughfamily photos and say, oh, I
thought we were happy, like wewere smiling, we were on
vacation together.
I thought that this was like areally happy time in our
relationship.
And then later they discoveredthat an affair was happening
during that time and so theystart to look back differently
(03:52):
on a lot of those memories.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Absolutely, and questioning too, like, were we
were on vacation, were youtalking to your affair partner
while we were on this trip?
Or they do this layering of alot of times people will look at
phone records so they'll lookback at pictures and then
they'll go check the phonerecords and be like we were on
this, you know, anniversary trip, but you were still calling
(04:15):
your affair partner.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
yeah, and there's like this obsession with the
timeline right and needing toknow those details, and that's
where I like really do caution,the betrayed partner I'm like.
I think it's it's very normalto have all of these questions,
but I do usually say, like,whatever you find out, you can't
like unknow.
So like let's really beintentional about like what
(04:38):
questions we're asking and whatinformation is shared, because
you will look back differentlyon some of these memories and
you'll also think differently ofyour partner too.
Like you will uncover probablymore and more lies.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Right.
I believe it's pretty normal,you know, when you discover the
affair, to like want to know thetimeline and maybe do your own
level of sleuthing.
But I will often say, okay,like you did your sleuthing,
let's not keep those phonerecords, let's not like look at
them every day, like it's timeto put them away.
And a lot of my betrayedpartners need to hear that.
(05:16):
I think like they trust me as atherapist and trust that I'm
looking out for them.
So when I say, okay, like youlooked at the phone records.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
You got the validation that you needed that
the affair was happening.
Well, that's what I think theyneed is like that validation,
because so much of this is likethey're questioning reality and
their own ideas of like whatthey thought was going on at the
time.
So I do think having somethingtangible, like phone records, is
really important, but theinvitation to say like let's put
them away at a certain pointbecause it's not going to
benefit them.
Or, if they do want toreconcile, it's not going to
(05:50):
benefit the relationship eitherAbsolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
That's perfectly stated, Jenna.
Another I call this likehallmark symptom, I see and a
lot of times the betrayedpartner really feels ashamed for
admitting this is that theydevelop an obsession with the
affair partner.
So, whomever their partner hadan affair with, they all of a
sudden find themselves likewondering about this person,
(06:16):
like what did my partner likeabout them?
What did they find attractive?
They may engage in a lot ofcomparison like how is this
person like me or different fromme?
A lot of social media.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, I was going to ask you like what do you?
I mean, of course, social media, but I feel like one of the
things I've seen is also like ifthere are mutual, like trying
to get information from otherpeople on the affair partner.
Do you see that, too in yourpractice?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yes, absolutely yeah.
They don't even just develop anobsession with the affair
partner.
Do you see that too in yourpractice?
Yeah, absolutely yeah.
They don't even just develop anobsession with the affair
partner, but like who's theirfamily, who are their friends,
who are their social network.
And I think they're doing thisin an attempt to basically
understand the affair partner'skind of perspective.
Right, Because there is a thirdperson involved in this.
(07:04):
And sometimes people are like,well, you know, they didn't know
, like my partner was married,because there could have been
deception towards the affairpartner, or like how did they
feel about my partner?
So they're trying to understandnot just the other person as a
person, but that person's rolesand what were their motivations
(07:24):
to have an affair.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I think a lot of people do want to know, like how
their spouse or partner liketalked about their relationship.
Like if people were thinkingabout a separation or separate,
like were they telling the otherperson that they were divorced
or didn't have a spouse or apartner?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, I find a lot of people when they think about
the affair partner, if theysense that the affair partner
did not know that they werecheating with someone who was
married, they almost feel asense of relief, right Like, oh,
they didn't know, it's nottheir fault.
But when they know okay, thisperson knew that they were
(08:05):
married it feels like a doublebetrayal.
Even if that person was astranger, it's like you betrayed
our relationship as well.
You were complicit in that.
So it's another layer ofprocess and sometimes people
really like kind of lose faithin humanity when you're like, oh
my gosh, they knew, yeah, noabsolutely.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
It's like, even if you didn't know the person that
your spouse or partner cheatedon you with, sometimes you still
feel betrayed by them, right,even if it was this like neutral
person.
It's like, oh, they knew I wasin a relationship.
And yeah, absolutely.
I see that too.
One of the other things I seeis that it can just deeply
(08:47):
impact self-identity,self-esteem issues, feeling like
Was I not good enough?
Am I not attractive enough?
Like feeling self-conscious,sometimes after the affair.
I see a lot of that and that'swhere, like, just as a person, I
hurt for them because I'm likeit oftentimes is not about you,
(09:11):
but I can like feel that painthat they're experiencing and
how it's affecting their, theirself-esteem.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
And that can be really hard for them too, Cause
they will ask their partnerthose questions Like was I not
attractive enough, Was I notgood enough?
And their partner will say, no,like you are good enough, you
are attractive enough.
And they're like, then why?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
But it's hard to believe like right, it's hard to
say like, okay, I'm a, like mypartner is still attracted to me
, my partner loves me and theycheated on me, Like it's like
those two things can't exist.
And you know I see peoplegrapple and struggle with that
in in session.
Right what?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
else.
Um, so this goes back to likeobsession with the affair
partner and some of those traumasymptoms we were talking about,
but, uh, obsessive thinking.
They will find that the affairis the only thing they can think
about, even when they don'twant to and that is like when
you talk about that level ofempathy and heartbreak, Jenna.
that's where I feel like a lotof heartbreak for my betrayed
(10:13):
clients, cause they could belike I.
I'm having the best day, I'mstanding at my kitchen baking
and all of a sudden, out ofnowhere, it's like did he do
this or did she do that, likethey.
And then the intrusive thoughtsabout it?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, that they don't feel like they have control
over and like sometimes it islike they're.
They have so much likeobsessive thoughts about this
that they can't eat.
Like it's just like allconsuming.
Like they have so much likeobsessive thoughts about this
that they can't eat.
Like it's just like allconsuming.
Like they can't concentrate onwork.
They can't concentrate onanything but the affair,
especially like initially.
I always use like the metaphorof.
(10:47):
I've heard that it's similar tolike throwing a rock in the
water.
It's like it has these likeripple effects.
And like those first waves ofthe ripples are like really
intense and those like lessenover time, though it lasts.
Right like ripple effects andlike those first waves of the
ripples are like really intenseand those like lessen over time,
though it lasts right thetimeline and this is not like
precise or research based butjust based on observation.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I tell my clients the first four to eight weeks are
really tough with the traumasymptoms and the obsessive
thinking.
But typically after like eightweeks, after um discovery of the
affair, if you've been likeworking through it and you know,
feel safe in the relationshipagain to some degree, you'll see
that lesson over time and a lotof clients will tell me yeah,
(11:29):
the first like two months werereally hard but that over time
those, those obsessive thoughtsand like persistent negative
feelings do ease up, and thenthat provides them some relief.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, it won't be that intense forever.
I also find that there can be alot of like social consequences
for the betrayed partner,because what I see a lot of is
that, like, sometimes affairsstart in the workplace or like
in friendship groups and so allof a sudden feeling like I don't
want to go with my spouse totheir work event because I might
(12:03):
see that person or I don't wantto hang out with this group of
friends anymore because theaffair partner might be there.
So they feel like they're losingpieces of their social network
because of the cheating and theaffair and that feels super
unjust to them.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I've also seen the opposite of that, though, too,
jenna, where, especially if theaffair partner is in their work
or social setting, they'll sayto their partner, I want you to
take me to all the happy hoursor like I want to go Reestablish
that territory Right and thentheir partner may be a little
defensive, Like you never cameto these before.
Like why all of a sudden do youwant to now?
(12:43):
And they're saying because Iwant to be seen with you.
I want people to know ourrelationship is okay If their
partner's resistant.
That can create some insecurityin the relationship.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah Well, sometimes and I have seen this before when
I'm working with couplessomebody might say like they've
ended the affair, but sometimesthey might still be protecting
that affair partner and that canbe deeply hurtful and painful
for the betrayed partner.
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, the betrayed partner will say I'm not going
to confront them, I just want tobe seen with you.
But the betraying partner willsay, no, like I'm, I'm not going
to confront them, I just wantto be seen with you.
But the betraying partner willsay, no, like I'm, I'm afraid
you're going to confront them,you're going to cause a scene
and that's going to be in frontof my friends or my work and
nobody knows at work, you know.
So yeah, that can becomplicated.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Another kind of symptom or characteristic we see
is the betrayed partner feelslike they need to monitor or
just have control.
So they need constantreassurance to feel safe, and
that reassurance might come inthe form of like verbal
reassurance, like talking withtheir partner.
It may seem like all they wantto do is talk about the affair
(13:55):
and the timelines and thosetypes of things, but they also
want to monitor their partner'sphone, social media, know your
location.
You need to be calling me and,jenna, I'll ask you how you feel
about this.
But my kind of initial responseis it's good to open those
(14:16):
things up and be moretransparent initially to create
a sense of trust and safety, butthat's not a crutch we want to
lean on forever.
So absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
I offer very similar advice Like those things can
help in reestablishing trustlike knowing where your partner
is, because you are experiencingthis constant like um,
questioning and obsession, and Ido think it can help calm some
of that initially to say like,okay, my partner's open to me
(14:46):
checking their phone or seeingtheir texts or asking questions
or seeing their location, but Idon't think you can exist like
that forever.
Nobody wants to be in arelationship where they have to
constantly monitor the otherperson yeah, yeah.
I agree with that.
The last one I see is I seepeople wanting to like reinvest
(15:08):
in themselves, because I thinksometimes their own sense of
trust in themselves, their gut,can be questioned during, like,
the discovery of an affair, andI think sometimes people want to
like reclaim that self back.
So I might see people likewanting to go to the gym and
spend more time with self-care.
I think sometimes in like.
(15:30):
I specifically see this inheterosexual relationships where
the male partner might havedone the cheating and they might
have been the breadwinner aswell.
I see sometimes females want tocreate this like safety net of
like oh, I've been relying onthis person to financially
support me and they cheated onme and I'm not sure if this
relationship is going to last.
(15:50):
So, like I need to continueeducation or go get a career or
figure out how to make money sothat I know like I can be
independent and successfulwithout this person.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
If this relationship is not able to be repaired and
mended, yeah, gemma, and I thinkthat that self-care connects
back to addressing thoseself-esteem issues you were
talking about.
So if, for example, theirpartner cheated on them with
someone in the workplace andthey feel like maybe their
career has stalled or, you know,maybe I'm not as interesting as
(16:26):
the people my partner workswith, that reinvestment in
education or workplace or eventhings like fitness or hobbies
or whatever is another way Ithink of like trying to become,
to build themselves up, but toalso become alluring to their
partner right.
If I become more interesting,more attractive like if I have
(16:47):
things going on that my partnerdoesn't always know about, maybe
they'll find some attraction tome?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, absolutely, and when I'm working with the
betrayed partner individually intherapy, I usually encourage
them to do some of that, like dothings that make you feel good
about yourself and like whereyou can build back some of that
self-esteem and confidence.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Absolutely, jenna.
I think that, as I think aboutthis episode and the previous
episode we did on the cheaterprofile, one thing I want to
communicate is that, as atherapist who works with people
who have dealt with infidelity,we have a lot of empathy for
people on both sides.
We know that this isn't easy,that the betraying partner
(17:33):
carries a lot of negativefeelings, shame and guilt, and
maybe also felt things likeloneliness and loss, you know,
leading up to or through theaffair and even after the affair
, and at the same time, we havea lot of empathy for the person
being betrayed, right Like bothpeople are hurting.
So, as far as couples therapygoes, one stigma I think that
(17:57):
comes with that, that is, ifyou've suffered from an affair,
we're going to blame one partneror the other.
And that's not our goal, right?
We want you to come in, we wantyou to feel safe and secure and
we want to meet you both whereyou're at and help you navigate
this trauma together.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
And we're familiar with the work that needs to be
done.
If you all want to repair therelationship, and that's what
we're we're focused on, I dousually recommend like if this
is new discovery that theespecially the betrayed partner
does get some individual therapyand support too.
I do think that can be sohelpful because as the therapist
(18:39):
, you are focused on taking careof the relationship and not
just one party, and the betrayedperson can feel like you know I
need this space to help me withall that I'm going through and
I think that's understandableand I think a way to balance
that is to have individual andcouple therapy.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, Jenna, wouldn't you say it's pretty common in
your experience that if you'reworking with a couple for
infidelity that they each havetheir own individual therapist?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, and I always say like I know that can be
incredibly expensive, right?
Especially if insurance is notcovering the cost of therapy.
So sometimes I will say, likehere are some clinics where,
like you can both get anindividual therapist and a
couples therapist, and maybethey work on a sliding scale fee
because people can really rackup some therapy expenses when
(19:31):
they're both seeing individualand couples therapists each week
, and oftentimes that is likewhat is needed at the onset of
the discovery of an affair.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, but it's my experience.
When those couples are doingtherapy couples therapy and
individual therapy I feel likethey just make more progress
right, oh, absolutely, yeah,that getting into treatment
sooner and really digging insetting up boundaries, working
on healing.
The sooner you do that and themore I would say intensely, or
sooner you do that, and the moreI would say intensely or
(20:03):
consistently you do that, I seethe progress moving a lot faster
than when people like reallykind of rely on just couples
therapy.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, absolutely, because sometimes, like what we
see in couples therapy issometimes the individuals in the
couple relationship havediffering needs and, like we
focused on each one of theseprofiles, and they are there are
a lot of differences therebetween, like, the person who
was cheating and the person whowas cheated on.
So I think one way to resolvethat is to have individual
(20:34):
therapy too.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Well, I know, jenna, we have so much to say about
infidelity.
It's such a complex topic, butwe are wrapping it up for today.
Don't forget to subscribe toour podcast so you don't miss
another episode.
See you next time.
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