September 10, 2025 • 33 mins
Struggling with p*rnography? You’re not alone. In this episode of the Covenant Eyes Podcast, hosts Karen Potter and Theo McManigal sit down with Dann Aungst, founder of Road to Purity and author of From One Addict to Another and 40 Days to Freedom. Dann shares his powerful 30-year journey through addiction, his path to recovery, and how God’s grace transformed his life and marriage.
💡 In this conversation, you’ll learn:
• Why p*rnography is only a symptom of deeper wounds
• How trauma, identity, and childhood experiences fuel addiction
• The importance of addressing root causes—not just behaviors
• Resources and tools for individuals, marriages, parents, and clergy
• How Covenant Eyes and Road to Purity partner to provide hope and accountability
🔔 Subscribe to Covenant Eyes for more resources, stories, and practical tools to live p*rn-free: https://youtube.com/@covenanteyes
📖 Learn more about Dann Aungst & Road to Purity: https://roadtopurity.com
🌐 Learn More About Covenant Eyes:
https://cvnteyes.co/4gb6xme
⏱ Timestamps
0:00 – Welcome with Karen & Theo
1:19 – Introducing Dann Aungst & his story
2:15 – Addiction beyond *orn: the deeper roots
6:00 – Childhood trauma & false identity
9:32 – Restoring God’s Foundation program
15:00 – Helping seminarians & clergy
18:00 – Marriage isn’t the cure for p*rn addiction
21:05 – Resources for recovery & accountability
28:05 – How Covenant Eyes supports healing
30:49 – Dann’s closing message of hope
🙏 If this episode encouraged you, please like, share, and comment below. Your engagement helps more people discover the hope and freedom found in Christ.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Hey, welcome back to TheCovenant Eyes Podcast.
It's Karen, and I'mso glad that you're
joining us today.
Friends, we have got agreat episode coming up,
and we have the oneand only Theo joining us.
He's back again.
He has been joining usa few times here and there,
and I am so excitedto have him back because Theo
is our Catholicoutreach specialist
and he brings so much wisdomand experience
(00:29):
to the conversation.
Welcome back Theo.
Hi Karen, thanks for allowing meto, co-host along with you.
How are you today?
I'm doing awesome.
The sun is shining,so that is great
because we haven't seen the suna whole lot.
Though I don't know about youthere in the Chicago area,
but it's been gloomydown here in Kentucky.
We were, we had some rain today.
(00:50):
But, thankfully that's stopped.
So there was some cold weathera little bit.
Word got up, but,things are starting
to warm up a bit, too.
Awesome. And you?
I love the fact that you've gotthe alphabet on the background.
You are a dad.
And that is so cute to see.
I love pointing that outbecause, you know, we all,
we all have families and storiesto share, and it's so great
(01:12):
to see the humanitybehind the man.
So with that, Theo, let'sgo ahead and roll
into today's episodeand introduce our guest.
All right.
So we are here with Dan Angst.
He is the founderof Road to Purity.
He's authored several books,including From
One Addict to Another,40 Days to Freedom
and Winning the Battlefor Sexual Purity.
Dan, welcome to the podcast.
(01:33):
How are you today?
Thanks. Great.
Thanks for having me.
Pleasure to be. Here.
Dan, can you just,you have quite the story of,
recovery and conversion.
Can you just brieflytell us a little bit about that?
Sure.
Well, I'll kind of giveyou a brief overview,
because we don't have an hourand a half, like,
(01:54):
sometimes, but,basically my short
version of my story is, I, was aI call myself
a recovering sex addict,and not just a porn addict.
And the reason is,I was addicted for over 30 years
in not just pornography,but also prostitution,
massage parlors, affairs,the whole gamut.
(02:15):
And in that process,I, you know, kind of got married
in the middle of itand, thought it would go
away, but, you know, it didn'tI didn't really realize
what was going on.
There's but there'sa whole process, a whole
long story of thingsthat have happened to me
through some of the affairs,some of the other things
(02:35):
that have happened.
Spiritual experiences that,that I've had.
But in a nutshell,going through all this,
there was a point whereGod kind of got a hold of me
and said, I, you know,went through a lot of it,
and we came out the other side,you know, beaten,
(02:55):
beaten and bloody, but,you know, came through.
And he said, I brought youthrough this, and I need you
to share your story with othersand tell them what you did, how
I brought you through,and what it takes
to get through this.
And that is, you know, in a realabbreviated form,
a big part of the story.
And part of what happened withthat is in that telling of it
(03:18):
began the, ministry that I have,rode to purity,
nonprofit organizationthat started around
ten years ago that is focusedon delivering
and working with menand some women on this addiction
in the sexual, arenaand has actually in it has grown
(03:41):
through my own growth as well.
Discovering the roots of things.
And it's notit's not just about,
the behavior.
And a lot of times you'll hearthe porn is not about porn,
about something deeper.
And that's somethingthat in a big way that we teach
and we put into our programs.
And one thingthat, that you didn't
mention, Theo, that we have is,kind of our flagship program
(04:05):
now called restoringGod's Foundation,
which also has aninformation on it.
It is a major programthat works with men
and or women,to get through this,
and this addictionand so much of it
dives into the rootsof the addiction
and what's really goingon underneath.
And with that, we have expandedinto other areas,
(04:26):
with what we're doing,including formation,
which leads into,priests and clergy,
as well as awarenessthat we're working with
and we're working withfamilies and couples.
And, one amazing thing thatI have to admit is by
the grace of God and only thegrace of God is that
(04:46):
after all of thisthat I just shared,
a lot of this happenedduring my marriage,
and I am still married,and we are coming up on 37 years
this, this July.
And that is the storyin and of itself.
Probably foranother podcast. But,
that's still that's still thereand that we, we do
(05:07):
a lot of work to,to share with people
that it is possible they can getthrough this.
These kind of behaviorsdon't mean
that it has to be over and, and,and it's we believe in
very strong spiritual warfare.
And we know thatthis is something that the enemy
wants to destroy.
Everything Godcreated, including
man and woman, joined us oneand he sure threw it at us.
(05:29):
But God was there with itand got us through it.
And I have to say something.
So it's okay.
I'll get back to missionary.
Yeah.
No, I know you gave you this.
Give us the abbreviated version,and we would love to,
have you back again.
And we can really dive into thatbecause I know
a lot of listenerscan really relate
(05:49):
to where you've beenin that journey, and, you know,
it has a beautiful ending to it.
So we want to emphasizeGod's grace.
And and in that journey,you know, you brought up
a lot of thingsin in that whole segment
about your story, that I foundpretty profound.
I, I often usean analogy of a tree,
and the whole communitycomes out to look at the tree
(06:09):
because it's sick and they can'tfigure out why is the tree
turning brown and there's thingswrong with it.
But until you get to the rootsand dig down and find that,
you know, the roots arebeing impacted, they're being,
you know, over wateredor there's rocks too
tangled up in them.
You don't necessarily understandthat pornography is not
the actual problem.
(06:30):
It's it's just a symptomof something deeper.
So I'm glad you brought that up.
And I want to kind ofstay there for a minute
and talk about that,because oftentimes
we just, you know,we see porn use
and we don't recognizethat there are triggers
and there's thingsdriving people
into those behaviors.
So talk to us alittle bit about that.
So many of us well today,so many of us,
(06:52):
virtually 100% of usare wounded, period.
And it's just a factof of who we are and everything
that happens, it usually startsin childhood for the most part,
but things that arewe usually start with
guys is tell them that Godcreated us to love and be loved.
Period. End of story.
That's it.
(07:12):
But in childhood,through many things.
Sometimes.
Sometimes, malicious.
Sometimes it's intentional.
Sometimes many times not.
We have trauma when we'rewhen we're younger.
Minor trauma, majortrauma, things.
Anything from divorceor abuse, sexual abuse,
things like that can happen.
Major or even small things.
(07:33):
Just a parent who, you know, afather who isn't that strong
at relationships with his kids,his maybe his dad wasn't that
strong with him,so he just doesn't know how
to affirm his his son'sor how to talk with them
and give them, you know,the love that they need.
So they grow up not getting whatGod designed them for.
(07:54):
And you can even have somethingsimple, such as, 12 year
old kids come homewith a report card
and have four A's and one C,and the father can say,
why isn't a C and a?
Now he's not mad, he'snot really criticizing him
or he's not in trouble.
But he says that.
So the 12 year old boysgoes, oh, I'm not perfect.
(08:14):
I need to be perfectto be loved.
I'm not good enough.
Those kinds of thingsget planted in his head.
They start fueling and so forth.
And he hundreds of these thingshappen throughout
your childhood, so ultimatelyyou end up in adopting this
false identity of, I'mnot good enough,
I'm not perfect.
I need be perfect to be loved.
I'm not wanted.
I'm not known all these kindsof things.
(08:37):
And if you don'thave the perfect love
that God designed usfor, wired us for we have pain.
If we don't transform that pain,we will transmit it.
It's not a choice.
It's not somethingyou can white knuckle
your way through.
It's just a fact.
So bottom line is we all have todiscover this pain.
What is it that's going on,what happened in our childhood?
(08:59):
Work through thatand just get through
those kind of thingsand release them,
which will then in turnrelate to how we behave
or not behave, you know,as adults or later in our lives.
One of the thingsthat's evident of
this is in our program,the Restoring God's
Foundation program.
I have countlessguys who will start a program
(09:22):
and they'll email me, call me,whatever, you know,
later in the program,they'll say, I've been doing
this program for five weeks.
I started this program toto curb my porn habit.
This program is changingwho I am, and my poor is just
going away on its own.
And when you start realizingthe porn is a coping mechanism
or a medication for something,and when you get rid of that
(09:44):
something or begin to heal it,the need for it begins to vanish
and go away.
And that's the rootof what's going on.
And quite often you have to digup the root.
And it's funny, you came up withthat analogy, which is perfect,
with what we do,because it really blends itself
into something newthat we're working on.
And we are embarking ona whole program for families,
(10:08):
to deal with healing parentsregardless of what
their woundedness is.
But then the childrenand all the problems
that they have withwhat's going on.
We're where this all startsbecause every I talk to hundreds
and hundreds of menand they're all start
when they're children somewhere.
Well, if youif you're digging up
the roots of thistree, that's sick.
(10:29):
What if you couldget to this tree
when it's a saplingand yank it out?
Then what if you can fix thiswhen it's, you know, 7
or 8 years old rather than30 years old,
how much more successfulyou're going to have?
And how muchof the damage is that
tree or that personthat child going to
have as they get older?
That's what we're tryingto approach in the program
(10:51):
that we're working on now.
With that and it evolved.
You know, sexuality and chastityis a big thing,
but everything else as well.
I love that.
And that is such good newsthat you're thinking about that
next generation.
Because you're right.
It is so importantif we can get to them
when they're youngand make a difference.
How I guess as you're working onthat program, I'm just curious.
(11:13):
I've got some questions.
You know, when we think about,you know, intervening at
an earlier age,you know, like you said,
we all have traumas and woundsthat happen to us,
whether they're small or big.
And how how do we addressthat in children?
How do we, you know, help kidswho are experiencing that?
Is it teaching them resilienceand how to cope
(11:36):
with those situationsthat come their way
as well as workingwith the parents to,
you know, teach themdifferent ways to go about,
certain types of things,like the example you gave
of the critique,you know, a better way
to address thatwith your children so you don't
leave wounds inadvertently.
Right. It's teaching.
Part of it is teachingthe parents.
Number one,it's helping the parents
(11:57):
realize their own woundednessand begin to heal
their own woundedness.
They begin to see thingsmore clearly that way,
then begin to suggest to themwhat they may be doing to
their own kids thatthey don't even realize.
But but generallyteaching them in a way
that's not like, hey,you're messing up your kids.
Here's what you're doing wrong.
It's here'swhat commonly happens
(12:18):
that we don't even realize.
And you may realize this nowis you're 35 years old
that you didn't know.
So when you talk to your kids,is there a level of affirmation?
How oftenhave you told your child
that you're proud of them,that you're, that you love them
and whatever, and it'sspeaking to them
like in that reportcard situation?
Yeah. Why isn't a CNA?
(12:39):
That's fine.
But don't leave it at that.
Say, hey, I'm real proud of you.
Of these A's that you gotto see that you have.
Is this somethingthat you're struggling,
you know, how can I help you?
What can we do for you on this?
But I'm still proud of you.
With everything elsethat you've done,
making sure thatthat is expressed,
you know, and so forth.
But at the same time,teaching the kids as they get
(13:00):
a little bit older,you know, you know, eight, ten,
12 years old,something like that
of, of being self-aware,of when things
aren't going right,to be aware of it,
to say something, to discuss it.
Be okay with telling youryour father that, hey, you know,
that hurt my feelingswhen you said that
and make that okayfor them to say so
(13:21):
and then discuss it.
But at the same time,you know, the, you know,
the 12 year oldgirl, Consommateurs,
you know, she's crushedbecause she wasn't picked to be
on the cheer team.
Well, okay, number one by then,are you teaching them
where their value is?
You know, are thereis there value from other people
(13:41):
or is it from above?
And hopefully that's truelearning that to begin with.
But at the same timewhen they do come home
and that's of course crushing,they feel rejected and unwanted.
Well, lead them throughsome type of prayer, you know,
in the name of Jesus Christ.
I reject the feeling that I,I renounce a feeling
that I'm rejected and unwanted,and I replace that
(14:04):
with the truth that I am lovedby Jesus.
If I'm loved with by my parentsunconditionally.
And I accept that as truth,and I reject these other lies,
teach them to work throughthat stuff, then.
Man, that you just saidso many fantastic things there.
Definitely one thing.
And I'veheard this quote before,
(14:26):
though, that sufferingand suffering not transformed.
Is suffering transmitted.
That's so powerful.
Yeah.
And one of our SafeHaven Sunday booklets also talks
about how important it isto talk to your kids about
affirming themfor their efforts,
not necessarilyfor their successes,
so that they or failor, you know, or their failures
(14:50):
so that they see their valuein that they are
and not what they do.
So I'm I'm really gladthat you are working on programs
for that to help parents.
Our woundedness really,really can have a ripple effect.
Oh yeah. It makes them.
Doing a lot with with parents.
I'd love to hear more about whatyou're doing with, with with
(15:11):
clergy and with seminarians.
We have been,for about seven years
now running our Restoring GuysFoundation program
with seminarians,helping them through
these issues themselves.
Because so many of themget into seminary, they
they think they're going toget into seminary
and make it disappear.
Well, it's not so we workwith many groups,
(15:34):
of seminarians do that.
And then also foralmost eight years, we had been
doing a class,just kind of a one day
class with, we call themgraduating seminarians.
They're actuallya theology of theology
for students who are.
This is the fallbetween before they get ordained
the next spring.
And we do, a little mini courseon on how to address sexual sin
(15:58):
when revealed in a confessional.
So we've done that,and it's gone
so phenomenally welland successful that
we decided to bring that intoa full fledged course.
I mean, it's an hour, hourand a half long course,
that we offerto all clergy anywhere
on our websitefor free to any priest,
(16:20):
to learn what it isin the confessional
that it is commonlycoming in things that they don't
know, things that nobody'sgoing to tell them.
But we hear, as well as how tomaybe approach,
you know, the penitent,the person, the confession,
as well as ideas of penances,of what they can give
that that's,appropriate to what, you know,
(16:43):
what's being confessedbecause so often.
And this is which is whyI started with,
you know, the Five Keysto Freedom years ago,
where I started with thatfor the reason
of giving to the priestusing confessional is that,
of course,I went into confession
with this one hundreds of timesand, you know, three Hail Marys.
And our fatherisn't going to keep
me from coming back.
(17:03):
Well, the confessionalis one of the very,
very few placeswhere this behavior is revealed.
It's a place that can be done.
Something can be done about.
It can be said.
Now, the priests aren't expectedto be counselors
decision to placeto where you can take, you know,
ten minutes and counsel and workwith the person.
But you can say asentence or two or ask
(17:25):
a couple of questionsto at least turn the tide
and make them think about it,or give them
something to make themthink about what's going on
or resource at that point.
And that's that'swhat we're offering.
And we we've been doing thatfor for many years now.
Well, going back to youryour story, Dan, you know,
you were talkinga little bit about,
you know, the the partwhere you got married
(17:47):
and I'm going to bring this backbecause this is something
that frequently at covenantis we hear this
all the time from peoplethat, you know, they feel like
when they're strugglingwith pornography, that marriage
is kind of the keyto solving that problem.
And they go into itfeeling really empowered
that this is goingto make it all go away.
And unfortunately,all it does is bring it
(18:07):
into the marriageand usually leads to great pain
and sufferingfor both the husband
and the wife.
So I just want to touch on that.
Can you talk to me a little bitabout why we think that
and how that actuallyis not the case, and what was
your experience? Yeah.
Well, it'sthe the problem is that
when we believe the problem,the reason we look
(18:30):
at pornographyis because I need sex.
That's what I'm designing.
That's what I want.
That's because it's aboutit's about the sex.
It's about the pornography,which we, you know,
kind of established.
It's not it.
But when you go into a marriagebelieving that that's the case,
then I'm going to getmarried, I'm going to have
all the sex.
I get a real person,I get intimacy, I get affection
or whatever.
Then I won't need this anymore.
(18:50):
And that might work fora few weeks, a month.
But then soon as we established,we all have pain.
And if you don'ttransform the pain,
you'll transmit it.
Well, you're going to betransmitting it.
And soon as you're very intimateand very well known
by your spouse on both sides,they trigger you.
They know your weaknesses.
(19:11):
They know the problems.
They're going to bethe first ones to point out
your failures,and everything else.
So suddenly everything is,is picked up, so to speak.
So all of the, all of the issuesthat really trigger everything
have been expanded.
And they're nowamplified in marriage.
So in my case, I believe thesame thing, but it actually
(19:35):
got worse.
And that's where in my marriage,you know, pornography and so
forth ended up into,you know, affairs
and prostitution and thosekinds of things
because I was just so desperatefrom beforehand.
I was so desperate to be wanted.
And loved and acceptedand then getting into marriage.
Now I'm sitting herewith a person who I feel is just
(19:57):
looking and pointing outeverything that's wrong with me,
so it's worse.
So now I'm so desperate,I have to look elsewhere for it
and that's that.
Just turn it inside out for meand for me.
It doesn't go quite that bad.
But still they'll they'll turnto pornography
and it'll get worse and worse.
And too often it does go intoextracurricular
(20:18):
activities. You will.
And there's so many statisticsthat that show
that that happens.
Yes.
That's, thank youfor elaborating on that,
because that's such a,that's such a big thing
that we hear about a lot.
It galvanizes.
I'm sure you do.
Just marriageis going to cure me
or ordinationis going to cure me.
Like.
And the reality is,through the grace of God,
(20:39):
you have to stop doing this.
Yeah.
No, I, I think right nowwould be a great segue
to talk a little bitmore about because you you have
so many offerings.
And I want to kind of diveinto some of the best ones
because the listenersof this show certainly are,
you know, them selves strugglingwith pornography.
(21:00):
Their spouses,maybe their, their child
is, involved in pornography.
So we have kind of avast audience.
But what resources and toolswould you point
some of those folks to thatyour ministry offers?
The most part, our likeour flagship program,
which is an extremely in-depthprogram.
(21:22):
It's called RestoringGod's Foundation.
You can get to iton our on our website.
It's free. It's, starts with aself-study type of format.
But so often,nearly 100% of the time, really,
accountability is somethingthat's very important, to do.
So we have a sister,program called
(21:46):
the Simon Community,where it's something to
where our tagline iswhere your brothers
in Christ helpyou carry your cross.
And it's got, meetingsevery day of the week.
Pretty much, except Fridays,I believe, where you can go
in and zoom, have livemeetings on zoom
with, with other other members,and we have moderators
that are running it.
And generally,for the most part, they run
(22:08):
a restoring guy's foundation.
One of the lessons in there.
So there's a,a purpose and a goal,
you know, in each one.
And there's, protocolswhich they go through of
sharing and so forth.
And it's so many people findaccountability there.
Support and so forth.
And they use the programto go through,
(22:28):
what we have, with that,we also have, working on it,
just about to releasea priest version of it.
Because right now,unfortunately, you know,
there are there areclergy out there
that are strugglewith this, too,
and they really don'thave a lot of places to go.
They I talked toso many an issue.
Well, I can't goto counseling, a charge,
(22:49):
a diocese back forhundred and 50 bucks an hour.
Then you'd better knowwhat I'm doing.
So we have, you know, secretprivate groups
of these communitiesthat will be for priests
exclusively, just to help themgo through this as well.
And it'll be, you know,free of charge.
So there's nothingto be tracked anywhere
with that, that we can workon helping them.
(23:11):
At the same time. Soand then there's of course, the,
the training for the prieststo help them
with the confessional.
We have also, a programthat we're working on now,
called The Power of the pulpitto where we will
be having some trainingand ideas and help for priests.
How to address thisfrom the pulpit more,
(23:35):
where they have, they can domore than just
a porn talk, you know,which is very difficult
for them to do.
They get a lot of pushback,you know, from the, you know,
you know, from the familiesand so forth.
And, and it's hard to do,but it's it's talking
about how to bring about purityand chastity, as well as talking
about confession and thingsin from the pulpit.
(23:58):
And one of the thingsI talk about in the confession
program to themis something that I hear
so much ispeople don't understand
how big of a dealporn really is.
They say, okay, it's a sin,but it's a mortal sin.
You know, from aCatholic perspective,
I didn't know that.
What, 99% of the priestsdon't talk about it
(24:19):
from the pulpit.
They don't talk about, you know,these kinds of things,
but you can take anythingthat we will blend ideas
into and gowith the normal Sunday
readings and blendedinto something
that is of forgivenessand chastity,
purity and so forth.
Anything some like, for example,every year there's always a
talk on the prodigal sonand, you know, reading on
(24:43):
a gospel reading.
And the priest can say,you can easily just say,
you know, a fatherlike the father.
And the story willwelcome anyone back
who comes homeand wants to repent and wants to
become back, back home,no matter what you've done,
whether you've stolensomebody, something,
looked at pornography,had affairs, you know,
(25:03):
killed somebody, you know,had an abortion.
Whatever you want.
They can say all these things.
They don't have to make ita porn talk, but you can kind
of mention it through thethrough the topic and everybody
sitting in the pews,which is probably 50%
of the adults in therewill hear that and go, oh,
yeah, I can do that.
I can be forgiven for that.
(25:24):
And it can be very subtle,but just just mention that,
make that pointten, 15 times a year
and make them startthinking about it.
And there's many other waysto get them to start
thinking about these things.
They can be mentionedfrom the pulpit and,
but they can also do a porn talkif they want.
And there's ways that they canpresent it.
(25:45):
I had a priest once that,he prefaced it,
at the beginning, a beginning,a mass, and said, we're going
to talk aboutsome serious issues
with with chastity,and we're going to
talk about some,very honest talk here.
And all of the parents herewho have smaller children.
If you feel thatyou need to leave
(26:07):
during the homily,you can do that.
You can leave now,and we'll send the ushers out
to get you when we're done.
So you're notyou don't have to worry
about being offended.
We have to worry about it.
So, I mean, maybe weI witnessed that
there's like maybefour people that left
was all they left.
And the priestbasically unloaded.
He was right between the eyes.
(26:29):
This is what it's about.
And this is what's going on.
This is what needyou need to know.
And it was a great talk.
But, you know,he basically said,
this is somethingthat I have to say,
I am your shepherd.
I am responsible for your soul.
If I don't say something,I will be called to
count in the end.
We have to talk about this,and if you can't
(26:49):
hear it, I understand.
And here's, you know, here'swhat we'll do.
And he he talked.
He said it.
So you know thatthat's an option
that can happen.
But it's got to be said.
There's too many soulsjust getting tied up in this
and getting lost.
And they got to say something.
I was right, there is anexcellent soundbite
for Safe HavenSunday, by the way.
(27:09):
I love this.
I love this though.
This Mike Rowe mentionedthroughout the year.
I think that's something,you know, we've talked
to many ministry leaders overover the time here.
And, you know, it's funnybecause it's like
they always think it has to bethe big heavy lift.
Like the gentlemanthat, you know, the
the priest that just didthe big sermon series, you know,
and really laid it out there.
(27:30):
It doesn't have to bethat sometimes
it's just inserting.
Mike Rowe mentionsthroughout the year in the
appropriate placesat the appropriate time,
because the more people hear itand the more frequently
it's talked about,then people will
start remembering that,you know, this is okay.
There are other peopleI can come forward.
I can get, you know, help.
I can confess my sins,all of these things.
(27:51):
So I just I love thatand I love that you're giving
them tools.
Dan, let me ask you thisin all the work that you do,
because I know you're workingwith a ton of people
to help them find freedomfrom pornography.
How do you also leverage a toollike Covenant Eyes
in that process?
Is that something that you guysrecommend or leverage in
any of the servicesthat you provide?
(28:11):
We do, we're actually one of theaffiliate partners.
So we, we promote that,and every chance
that we have, it'sa great accountability tool.
It's a great way to,let other people see, you know,
what's going onand to spark discussion,
when you have a partner,see some behaviors,
activities online that,you know, are, you know,
(28:33):
less than ideal,and that you can set
at a different levels.
You know, I like thatin different frequencies.
So we promote that as a tool,among many things to use.
And like, like I said,there's many tools to use.
And covenant is a fantasticone that we talk about
with that.
But but end of day,you've got to get to the bottom.
(28:55):
You can figure out what's behindus, what's going on, you know,
what's the root of it?
Why is this happening?
And and, you know, covenantis one of the great tools
that are out there andin my opinion, better
than, than many.
But it's, just a tool.
That's right.
And it's guardrails.
Right.
I feel like we need thateven if we're in recovery
(29:16):
from pornography,having those guardrails in place
online reallyare important because, you know,
Satan is not goingto just stop trying to tempt us
along the way, right?
So we just want to put inevery barrier between us
and that sin that we can.
And if you're an alcoholic,you don't want to
go back to the bar.
You know you don'tbecause you know
that the temptation is there.
(29:37):
So yeah, I'm glad to hear thatyou guys are leveraging it
as a tool in your ministry,because it certainly
is just that.
It's a tool that can reallybe useful in the journey.
But I'd like to turnto these guardrails.
That's somethingI have to remember, but it's
something that wewe talk to parents
and they'll say, oh yeah,we have covered eyes,
or we have filterson their devices,
you know, we're good.
(29:57):
That's a great start.
But do you realizethat's 5% of the answer?
It's an important 5%.
As it gets the first 5%.
You have to use,but it's 5% nonetheless.
You know, they said,well what's wrong?
What's the rest?
Okay.
How much time you got?
And that'show both with recovery
(30:18):
as well asraising your children, you need
both of the things thatour organization and yours
bring to thetable accountability
and education, the guardrailsand relationship.
Yep. It's all important.
It's all critical.
Well, this has been anamazing conversation Dan
I love the workthat you're doing
and we are so gratefulfor your work, your ministry,
(30:40):
your partnershipwith Covenant Eyes.
You know, in closing today,would you like to
offer our listenerssome message of hope to kind of
bring us home today?
Yeah, it really I mean, hope isreally a big thing.
And that's one of the thingsthat we try to try to reflect.
I mean, the fact that,like I said, I've been through
prostitution affairs,massage parlors, you know, the
(31:01):
whole gamut was for 30 yearsI have come through it.
I am still married.
There's so many toolsthat, you know, we didn't
even mention here that that canbe in place that need to be used
for all of that.
But it is possible.
I can't tell you how many,how many relationships
and marriages I run intothat are destroyed by so much
(31:22):
less than I did.
And it's like Satan wonand he killed me.
It just doesn'thave to be that way.
That's beautiful.
Thank you.
Theo, do you want to bring usto a close today?
Absolutely.
I just want to say that we areso, so incredibly grateful
to have this relationshipand this connection
(31:44):
with Dan and,with Road to Purity.
And we look forward to the waysthat we will work together
to serve the church, to servethe body of Christ.
We had a wonderful,wonderful episode
today hearing about Dan story.
And, we've got a lot of lessonsthat have come from it.
Suffering not transformed.
(32:04):
Is suffering transmitted?
Please take that with you.
Understand how importantthat is.
Set up the guardrails,but dig deep.
Also, go to the roots and healyour entire person.
For everything on the outsideand everything
on the inside belongs to God,who made us,
who wants us to thrive,and who has destined us
to live with him forever.
(32:26):
And so, Dan and Karen,it is an honor for me to work
alongside the both of youon this wonderful,
wonderful mission.
And it's also an honor to,be a part of this wonderful,
wonderful podcast at thiswonderful organization.
Thank you very much.
And to all of our listeners,thanks so much for tuning in
to this episode.
(32:47):
Please join us againon The Covenant Eyes Podcast
and until next time,thank you, God bless.
Take care and we'llsee you again soon.
Hey, welcome back to TheCovenant Eyes Podcast.
It's Karen, and I'mso glad that you're
joining us today.
Friends, we have got agreat episode coming up,
and we have the oneand only Theo joining us.
He's back again.
He has been joining usa few times here and there,
and I am so excitedto have him back because Theo
is our Catholicoutreach specialist
and he brings so much wisdomand experience
(00:29):
to the conversation.
Welcome back Theo.
Hi Karen, thanks for allowing meto, co-host along with you.
How are you today?
I'm doing awesome.
The sun is shining,so that is great
because we haven't seen the suna whole lot.
Though I don't know about youthere in the Chicago area,
but it's been gloomydown here in Kentucky.
We were, we had some rain today.
(00:50):
But, thankfully that's stopped.
So there was some cold weathera little bit.
Word got up, but,things are starting
to warm up a bit, too.
Awesome. And you?
I love the fact that you've gotthe alphabet on the background.
You are a dad.
And that is so cute to see.
I love pointing that outbecause, you know, we all,
we all have families and storiesto share, and it's so great
(01:12):
to see the humanitybehind the man.
So with that, Theo, let'sgo ahead and roll
into today's episodeand introduce our guest.
All right.
So we are here with Dan Angst.
He is the founderof Road to Purity.
He's authored several books,including From
One Addict to Another,40 Days to Freedom
and Winning the Battlefor Sexual Purity.
Dan, welcome to the podcast.
(01:33):
How are you today?
Thanks. Great.
Thanks for having me.
Pleasure to be. Here.
Dan, can you just,you have quite the story of,
recovery and conversion.
Can you just brieflytell us a little bit about that?
Sure.
Well, I'll kind of giveyou a brief overview,
because we don't have an hourand a half, like,
(01:54):
sometimes, but,basically my short
version of my story is, I, was aI call myself
a recovering sex addict,and not just a porn addict.
And the reason is,I was addicted for over 30 years
in not just pornography,but also prostitution,
massage parlors, affairs,the whole gamut.
(02:15):
And in that process,I, you know, kind of got married
in the middle of itand, thought it would go
away, but, you know, it didn'tI didn't really realize
what was going on.
There's but there'sa whole process, a whole
long story of thingsthat have happened to me
through some of the affairs,some of the other things
(02:35):
that have happened.
Spiritual experiences that,that I've had.
But in a nutshell,going through all this,
there was a point whereGod kind of got a hold of me
and said, I, you know,went through a lot of it,
and we came out the other side,you know, beaten,
(02:55):
beaten and bloody, but,you know, came through.
And he said, I brought youthrough this, and I need you
to share your story with othersand tell them what you did, how
I brought you through,and what it takes
to get through this.
And that is, you know, in a realabbreviated form,
a big part of the story.
And part of what happened withthat is in that telling of it
(03:18):
began the, ministry that I have,rode to purity,
nonprofit organizationthat started around
ten years ago that is focusedon delivering
and working with menand some women on this addiction
in the sexual, arenaand has actually in it has grown
(03:41):
through my own growth as well.
Discovering the roots of things.
And it's notit's not just about,
the behavior.
And a lot of times you'll hearthe porn is not about porn,
about something deeper.
And that's somethingthat in a big way that we teach
and we put into our programs.
And one thingthat, that you didn't
mention, Theo, that we have is,kind of our flagship program
(04:05):
now called restoringGod's Foundation,
which also has aninformation on it.
It is a major programthat works with men
and or women,to get through this,
and this addictionand so much of it
dives into the rootsof the addiction
and what's really goingon underneath.
And with that, we have expandedinto other areas,
(04:26):
with what we're doing,including formation,
which leads into,priests and clergy,
as well as awarenessthat we're working with
and we're working withfamilies and couples.
And, one amazing thing thatI have to admit is by
the grace of God and only thegrace of God is that
(04:46):
after all of thisthat I just shared,
a lot of this happenedduring my marriage,
and I am still married,and we are coming up on 37 years
this, this July.
And that is the storyin and of itself.
Probably foranother podcast. But,
that's still that's still thereand that we, we do
(05:07):
a lot of work to,to share with people
that it is possible they can getthrough this.
These kind of behaviorsdon't mean
that it has to be over and, and,and it's we believe in
very strong spiritual warfare.
And we know thatthis is something that the enemy
wants to destroy.
Everything Godcreated, including
man and woman, joined us oneand he sure threw it at us.
(05:29):
But God was there with itand got us through it.
And I have to say something.
So it's okay.
I'll get back to missionary.
Yeah.
No, I know you gave you this.
Give us the abbreviated version,and we would love to,
have you back again.
And we can really dive into thatbecause I know
a lot of listenerscan really relate
(05:49):
to where you've beenin that journey, and, you know,
it has a beautiful ending to it.
So we want to emphasizeGod's grace.
And and in that journey,you know, you brought up
a lot of thingsin in that whole segment
about your story, that I foundpretty profound.
I, I often usean analogy of a tree,
and the whole communitycomes out to look at the tree
(06:09):
because it's sick and they can'tfigure out why is the tree
turning brown and there's thingswrong with it.
But until you get to the rootsand dig down and find that,
you know, the roots arebeing impacted, they're being,
you know, over wateredor there's rocks too
tangled up in them.
You don't necessarily understandthat pornography is not
the actual problem.
(06:30):
It's it's just a symptomof something deeper.
So I'm glad you brought that up.
And I want to kind ofstay there for a minute
and talk about that,because oftentimes
we just, you know,we see porn use
and we don't recognizethat there are triggers
and there's thingsdriving people
into those behaviors.
So talk to us alittle bit about that.
So many of us well today,so many of us,
(06:52):
virtually 100% of usare wounded, period.
And it's just a factof of who we are and everything
that happens, it usually startsin childhood for the most part,
but things that arewe usually start with
guys is tell them that Godcreated us to love and be loved.
Period. End of story.
That's it.
(07:12):
But in childhood,through many things.
Sometimes.
Sometimes, malicious.
Sometimes it's intentional.
Sometimes many times not.
We have trauma when we'rewhen we're younger.
Minor trauma, majortrauma, things.
Anything from divorceor abuse, sexual abuse,
things like that can happen.
Major or even small things.
(07:33):
Just a parent who, you know, afather who isn't that strong
at relationships with his kids,his maybe his dad wasn't that
strong with him,so he just doesn't know how
to affirm his his son'sor how to talk with them
and give them, you know,the love that they need.
So they grow up not getting whatGod designed them for.
(07:54):
And you can even have somethingsimple, such as, 12 year
old kids come homewith a report card
and have four A's and one C,and the father can say,
why isn't a C and a?
Now he's not mad, he'snot really criticizing him
or he's not in trouble.
But he says that.
So the 12 year old boysgoes, oh, I'm not perfect.
(08:14):
I need to be perfectto be loved.
I'm not good enough.
Those kinds of thingsget planted in his head.
They start fueling and so forth.
And he hundreds of these thingshappen throughout
your childhood, so ultimatelyyou end up in adopting this
false identity of, I'mnot good enough,
I'm not perfect.
I need be perfect to be loved.
I'm not wanted.
I'm not known all these kindsof things.
(08:37):
And if you don'thave the perfect love
that God designed usfor, wired us for we have pain.
If we don't transform that pain,we will transmit it.
It's not a choice.
It's not somethingyou can white knuckle
your way through.
It's just a fact.
So bottom line is we all have todiscover this pain.
What is it that's going on,what happened in our childhood?
(08:59):
Work through thatand just get through
those kind of thingsand release them,
which will then in turnrelate to how we behave
or not behave, you know,as adults or later in our lives.
One of the thingsthat's evident of
this is in our program,the Restoring God's
Foundation program.
I have countlessguys who will start a program
(09:22):
and they'll email me, call me,whatever, you know,
later in the program,they'll say, I've been doing
this program for five weeks.
I started this program toto curb my porn habit.
This program is changingwho I am, and my poor is just
going away on its own.
And when you start realizingthe porn is a coping mechanism
or a medication for something,and when you get rid of that
(09:44):
something or begin to heal it,the need for it begins to vanish
and go away.
And that's the rootof what's going on.
And quite often you have to digup the root.
And it's funny, you came up withthat analogy, which is perfect,
with what we do,because it really blends itself
into something newthat we're working on.
And we are embarking ona whole program for families,
(10:08):
to deal with healing parentsregardless of what
their woundedness is.
But then the childrenand all the problems
that they have withwhat's going on.
We're where this all startsbecause every I talk to hundreds
and hundreds of menand they're all start
when they're children somewhere.
Well, if youif you're digging up
the roots of thistree, that's sick.
(10:29):
What if you couldget to this tree
when it's a saplingand yank it out?
Then what if you can fix thiswhen it's, you know, 7
or 8 years old rather than30 years old,
how much more successfulyou're going to have?
And how muchof the damage is that
tree or that personthat child going to
have as they get older?
That's what we're tryingto approach in the program
(10:51):
that we're working on now.
With that and it evolved.
You know, sexuality and chastityis a big thing,
but everything else as well.
I love that.
And that is such good newsthat you're thinking about that
next generation.
Because you're right.
It is so importantif we can get to them
when they're youngand make a difference.
How I guess as you're working onthat program, I'm just curious.
(11:13):
I've got some questions.
You know, when we think about,you know, intervening at
an earlier age,you know, like you said,
we all have traumas and woundsthat happen to us,
whether they're small or big.
And how how do we addressthat in children?
How do we, you know, help kidswho are experiencing that?
Is it teaching them resilienceand how to cope
(11:36):
with those situationsthat come their way
as well as workingwith the parents to,
you know, teach themdifferent ways to go about,
certain types of things,like the example you gave
of the critique,you know, a better way
to address thatwith your children so you don't
leave wounds inadvertently.
Right. It's teaching.
Part of it is teachingthe parents.
Number one,it's helping the parents
(11:57):
realize their own woundednessand begin to heal
their own woundedness.
They begin to see thingsmore clearly that way,
then begin to suggest to themwhat they may be doing to
their own kids thatthey don't even realize.
But but generallyteaching them in a way
that's not like, hey,you're messing up your kids.
Here's what you're doing wrong.
It's here'swhat commonly happens
(12:18):
that we don't even realize.
And you may realize this nowis you're 35 years old
that you didn't know.
So when you talk to your kids,is there a level of affirmation?
How oftenhave you told your child
that you're proud of them,that you're, that you love them
and whatever, and it'sspeaking to them
like in that reportcard situation?
Yeah. Why isn't a CNA?
(12:39):
That's fine.
But don't leave it at that.
Say, hey, I'm real proud of you.
Of these A's that you gotto see that you have.
Is this somethingthat you're struggling,
you know, how can I help you?
What can we do for you on this?
But I'm still proud of you.
With everything elsethat you've done,
making sure thatthat is expressed,
you know, and so forth.
But at the same time,teaching the kids as they get
(13:00):
a little bit older,you know, you know, eight, ten,
12 years old,something like that
of, of being self-aware,of when things
aren't going right,to be aware of it,
to say something, to discuss it.
Be okay with telling youryour father that, hey, you know,
that hurt my feelingswhen you said that
and make that okayfor them to say so
(13:21):
and then discuss it.
But at the same time,you know, the, you know,
the 12 year oldgirl, Consommateurs,
you know, she's crushedbecause she wasn't picked to be
on the cheer team.
Well, okay, number one by then,are you teaching them
where their value is?
You know, are thereis there value from other people
(13:41):
or is it from above?
And hopefully that's truelearning that to begin with.
But at the same timewhen they do come home
and that's of course crushing,they feel rejected and unwanted.
Well, lead them throughsome type of prayer, you know,
in the name of Jesus Christ.
I reject the feeling that I,I renounce a feeling
that I'm rejected and unwanted,and I replace that
(14:04):
with the truth that I am lovedby Jesus.
If I'm loved with by my parentsunconditionally.
And I accept that as truth,and I reject these other lies,
teach them to work throughthat stuff, then.
Man, that you just saidso many fantastic things there.
Definitely one thing.
And I'veheard this quote before,
(14:26):
though, that sufferingand suffering not transformed.
Is suffering transmitted.
That's so powerful.
Yeah.
And one of our SafeHaven Sunday booklets also talks
about how important it isto talk to your kids about
affirming themfor their efforts,
not necessarilyfor their successes,
so that they or failor, you know, or their failures
(14:50):
so that they see their valuein that they are
and not what they do.
So I'm I'm really gladthat you are working on programs
for that to help parents.
Our woundedness really,really can have a ripple effect.
Oh yeah. It makes them.
Doing a lot with with parents.
I'd love to hear more about whatyou're doing with, with with
(15:11):
clergy and with seminarians.
We have been,for about seven years
now running our Restoring GuysFoundation program
with seminarians,helping them through
these issues themselves.
Because so many of themget into seminary, they
they think they're going toget into seminary
and make it disappear.
Well, it's not so we workwith many groups,
(15:34):
of seminarians do that.
And then also foralmost eight years, we had been
doing a class,just kind of a one day
class with, we call themgraduating seminarians.
They're actuallya theology of theology
for students who are.
This is the fallbetween before they get ordained
the next spring.
And we do, a little mini courseon on how to address sexual sin
(15:58):
when revealed in a confessional.
So we've done that,and it's gone
so phenomenally welland successful that
we decided to bring that intoa full fledged course.
I mean, it's an hour, hourand a half long course,
that we offerto all clergy anywhere
on our websitefor free to any priest,
(16:20):
to learn what it isin the confessional
that it is commonlycoming in things that they don't
know, things that nobody'sgoing to tell them.
But we hear, as well as how tomaybe approach,
you know, the penitent,the person, the confession,
as well as ideas of penances,of what they can give
that that's,appropriate to what, you know,
(16:43):
what's being confessedbecause so often.
And this is which is whyI started with,
you know, the Five Keysto Freedom years ago,
where I started with thatfor the reason
of giving to the priestusing confessional is that,
of course,I went into confession
with this one hundreds of timesand, you know, three Hail Marys.
And our fatherisn't going to keep
me from coming back.
(17:03):
Well, the confessionalis one of the very,
very few placeswhere this behavior is revealed.
It's a place that can be done.
Something can be done about.
It can be said.
Now, the priests aren't expectedto be counselors
decision to placeto where you can take, you know,
ten minutes and counsel and workwith the person.
But you can say asentence or two or ask
(17:25):
a couple of questionsto at least turn the tide
and make them think about it,or give them
something to make themthink about what's going on
or resource at that point.
And that's that'swhat we're offering.
And we we've been doing thatfor for many years now.
Well, going back to youryour story, Dan, you know,
you were talkinga little bit about,
you know, the the partwhere you got married
(17:47):
and I'm going to bring this backbecause this is something
that frequently at covenantis we hear this
all the time from peoplethat, you know, they feel like
when they're strugglingwith pornography, that marriage
is kind of the keyto solving that problem.
And they go into itfeeling really empowered
that this is goingto make it all go away.
And unfortunately,all it does is bring it
(18:07):
into the marriageand usually leads to great pain
and sufferingfor both the husband
and the wife.
So I just want to touch on that.
Can you talk to me a little bitabout why we think that
and how that actuallyis not the case, and what was
your experience? Yeah.
Well, it'sthe the problem is that
when we believe the problem,the reason we look
(18:30):
at pornographyis because I need sex.
That's what I'm designing.
That's what I want.
That's because it's aboutit's about the sex.
It's about the pornography,which we, you know,
kind of established.
It's not it.
But when you go into a marriagebelieving that that's the case,
then I'm going to getmarried, I'm going to have
all the sex.
I get a real person,I get intimacy, I get affection
or whatever.
Then I won't need this anymore.
(18:50):
And that might work fora few weeks, a month.
But then soon as we established,we all have pain.
And if you don'ttransform the pain,
you'll transmit it.
Well, you're going to betransmitting it.
And soon as you're very intimateand very well known
by your spouse on both sides,they trigger you.
They know your weaknesses.
(19:11):
They know the problems.
They're going to bethe first ones to point out
your failures,and everything else.
So suddenly everything is,is picked up, so to speak.
So all of the, all of the issuesthat really trigger everything
have been expanded.
And they're nowamplified in marriage.
So in my case, I believe thesame thing, but it actually
(19:35):
got worse.
And that's where in my marriage,you know, pornography and so
forth ended up into,you know, affairs
and prostitution and thosekinds of things
because I was just so desperatefrom beforehand.
I was so desperate to be wanted.
And loved and acceptedand then getting into marriage.
Now I'm sitting herewith a person who I feel is just
(19:57):
looking and pointing outeverything that's wrong with me,
so it's worse.
So now I'm so desperate,I have to look elsewhere for it
and that's that.
Just turn it inside out for meand for me.
It doesn't go quite that bad.
But still they'll they'll turnto pornography
and it'll get worse and worse.
And too often it does go intoextracurricular
(20:18):
activities. You will.
And there's so many statisticsthat that show
that that happens.
Yes.
That's, thank youfor elaborating on that,
because that's such a,that's such a big thing
that we hear about a lot.
It galvanizes.
I'm sure you do.
Just marriageis going to cure me
or ordinationis going to cure me.
Like.
And the reality is,through the grace of God,
(20:39):
you have to stop doing this.
Yeah.
No, I, I think right nowwould be a great segue
to talk a little bitmore about because you you have
so many offerings.
And I want to kind of diveinto some of the best ones
because the listenersof this show certainly are,
you know, them selves strugglingwith pornography.
(21:00):
Their spouses,maybe their, their child
is, involved in pornography.
So we have kind of avast audience.
But what resources and toolswould you point
some of those folks to thatyour ministry offers?
The most part, our likeour flagship program,
which is an extremely in-depthprogram.
(21:22):
It's called RestoringGod's Foundation.
You can get to iton our on our website.
It's free. It's, starts with aself-study type of format.
But so often,nearly 100% of the time, really,
accountability is somethingthat's very important, to do.
So we have a sister,program called
(21:46):
the Simon Community,where it's something to
where our tagline iswhere your brothers
in Christ helpyou carry your cross.
And it's got, meetingsevery day of the week.
Pretty much, except Fridays,I believe, where you can go
in and zoom, have livemeetings on zoom
with, with other other members,and we have moderators
that are running it.
And generally,for the most part, they run
(22:08):
a restoring guy's foundation.
One of the lessons in there.
So there's a,a purpose and a goal,
you know, in each one.
And there's, protocolswhich they go through of
sharing and so forth.
And it's so many people findaccountability there.
Support and so forth.
And they use the programto go through,
(22:28):
what we have, with that,we also have, working on it,
just about to releasea priest version of it.
Because right now,unfortunately, you know,
there are there areclergy out there
that are strugglewith this, too,
and they really don'thave a lot of places to go.
They I talked toso many an issue.
Well, I can't goto counseling, a charge,
(22:49):
a diocese back forhundred and 50 bucks an hour.
Then you'd better knowwhat I'm doing.
So we have, you know, secretprivate groups
of these communitiesthat will be for priests
exclusively, just to help themgo through this as well.
And it'll be, you know,free of charge.
So there's nothingto be tracked anywhere
with that, that we can workon helping them.
(23:11):
At the same time. Soand then there's of course, the,
the training for the prieststo help them
with the confessional.
We have also, a programthat we're working on now,
called The Power of the pulpitto where we will
be having some trainingand ideas and help for priests.
How to address thisfrom the pulpit more,
(23:35):
where they have, they can domore than just
a porn talk, you know,which is very difficult
for them to do.
They get a lot of pushback,you know, from the, you know,
you know, from the familiesand so forth.
And, and it's hard to do,but it's it's talking
about how to bring about purityand chastity, as well as talking
about confession and thingsin from the pulpit.
(23:58):
And one of the thingsI talk about in the confession
program to themis something that I hear
so much ispeople don't understand
how big of a dealporn really is.
They say, okay, it's a sin,but it's a mortal sin.
You know, from aCatholic perspective,
I didn't know that.
What, 99% of the priestsdon't talk about it
(24:19):
from the pulpit.
They don't talk about, you know,these kinds of things,
but you can take anythingthat we will blend ideas
into and gowith the normal Sunday
readings and blendedinto something
that is of forgivenessand chastity,
purity and so forth.
Anything some like, for example,every year there's always a
talk on the prodigal sonand, you know, reading on
(24:43):
a gospel reading.
And the priest can say,you can easily just say,
you know, a fatherlike the father.
And the story willwelcome anyone back
who comes homeand wants to repent and wants to
become back, back home,no matter what you've done,
whether you've stolensomebody, something,
looked at pornography,had affairs, you know,
(25:03):
killed somebody, you know,had an abortion.
Whatever you want.
They can say all these things.
They don't have to make ita porn talk, but you can kind
of mention it through thethrough the topic and everybody
sitting in the pews,which is probably 50%
of the adults in therewill hear that and go, oh,
yeah, I can do that.
I can be forgiven for that.
(25:24):
And it can be very subtle,but just just mention that,
make that pointten, 15 times a year
and make them startthinking about it.
And there's many other waysto get them to start
thinking about these things.
They can be mentionedfrom the pulpit and,
but they can also do a porn talkif they want.
And there's ways that they canpresent it.
(25:45):
I had a priest once that,he prefaced it,
at the beginning, a beginning,a mass, and said, we're going
to talk aboutsome serious issues
with with chastity,and we're going to
talk about some,very honest talk here.
And all of the parents herewho have smaller children.
If you feel thatyou need to leave
(26:07):
during the homily,you can do that.
You can leave now,and we'll send the ushers out
to get you when we're done.
So you're notyou don't have to worry
about being offended.
We have to worry about it.
So, I mean, maybe weI witnessed that
there's like maybefour people that left
was all they left.
And the priestbasically unloaded.
He was right between the eyes.
(26:29):
This is what it's about.
And this is what's going on.
This is what needyou need to know.
And it was a great talk.
But, you know,he basically said,
this is somethingthat I have to say,
I am your shepherd.
I am responsible for your soul.
If I don't say something,I will be called to
count in the end.
We have to talk about this,and if you can't
(26:49):
hear it, I understand.
And here's, you know, here'swhat we'll do.
And he he talked.
He said it.
So you know thatthat's an option
that can happen.
But it's got to be said.
There's too many soulsjust getting tied up in this
and getting lost.
And they got to say something.
I was right, there is anexcellent soundbite
for Safe HavenSunday, by the way.
(27:09):
I love this.
I love this though.
This Mike Rowe mentionedthroughout the year.
I think that's something,you know, we've talked
to many ministry leaders overover the time here.
And, you know, it's funnybecause it's like
they always think it has to bethe big heavy lift.
Like the gentlemanthat, you know, the
the priest that just didthe big sermon series, you know,
and really laid it out there.
(27:30):
It doesn't have to bethat sometimes
it's just inserting.
Mike Rowe mentionsthroughout the year in the
appropriate placesat the appropriate time,
because the more people hear itand the more frequently
it's talked about,then people will
start remembering that,you know, this is okay.
There are other peopleI can come forward.
I can get, you know, help.
I can confess my sins,all of these things.
(27:51):
So I just I love thatand I love that you're giving
them tools.
Dan, let me ask you thisin all the work that you do,
because I know you're workingwith a ton of people
to help them find freedomfrom pornography.
How do you also leverage a toollike Covenant Eyes
in that process?
Is that something that you guysrecommend or leverage in
any of the servicesthat you provide?
(28:11):
We do, we're actually one of theaffiliate partners.
So we, we promote that,and every chance
that we have, it'sa great accountability tool.
It's a great way to,let other people see, you know,
what's going onand to spark discussion,
when you have a partner,see some behaviors,
activities online that,you know, are, you know,
(28:33):
less than ideal,and that you can set
at a different levels.
You know, I like thatin different frequencies.
So we promote that as a tool,among many things to use.
And like, like I said,there's many tools to use.
And covenant is a fantasticone that we talk about
with that.
But but end of day,you've got to get to the bottom.
(28:55):
You can figure out what's behindus, what's going on, you know,
what's the root of it?
Why is this happening?
And and, you know, covenantis one of the great tools
that are out there andin my opinion, better
than, than many.
But it's, just a tool.
That's right.
And it's guardrails.
Right.
I feel like we need thateven if we're in recovery
(29:16):
from pornography,having those guardrails in place
online reallyare important because, you know,
Satan is not goingto just stop trying to tempt us
along the way, right?
So we just want to put inevery barrier between us
and that sin that we can.
And if you're an alcoholic,you don't want to
go back to the bar.
You know you don'tbecause you know
that the temptation is there.
(29:37):
So yeah, I'm glad to hear thatyou guys are leveraging it
as a tool in your ministry,because it certainly
is just that.
It's a tool that can reallybe useful in the journey.
But I'd like to turnto these guardrails.
That's somethingI have to remember, but it's
something that wewe talk to parents
and they'll say, oh yeah,we have covered eyes,
or we have filterson their devices,
you know, we're good.
(29:57):
That's a great start.
But do you realizethat's 5% of the answer?
It's an important 5%.
As it gets the first 5%.
You have to use,but it's 5% nonetheless.
You know, they said,well what's wrong?
What's the rest?
Okay.
How much time you got?
And that'show both with recovery
(30:18):
as well asraising your children, you need
both of the things thatour organization and yours
bring to thetable accountability
and education, the guardrailsand relationship.
Yep. It's all important.
It's all critical.
Well, this has been anamazing conversation Dan
I love the workthat you're doing
and we are so gratefulfor your work, your ministry,
(30:40):
your partnershipwith Covenant Eyes.
You know, in closing today,would you like to
offer our listenerssome message of hope to kind of
bring us home today?
Yeah, it really I mean, hope isreally a big thing.
And that's one of the thingsthat we try to try to reflect.
I mean, the fact that,like I said, I've been through
prostitution affairs,massage parlors, you know, the
(31:01):
whole gamut was for 30 yearsI have come through it.
I am still married.
There's so many toolsthat, you know, we didn't
even mention here that that canbe in place that need to be used
for all of that.
But it is possible.
I can't tell you how many,how many relationships
and marriages I run intothat are destroyed by so much
(31:22):
less than I did.
And it's like Satan wonand he killed me.
It just doesn'thave to be that way.
That's beautiful.
Thank you.
Theo, do you want to bring usto a close today?
Absolutely.
I just want to say that we areso, so incredibly grateful
to have this relationshipand this connection
(31:44):
with Dan and,with Road to Purity.
And we look forward to the waysthat we will work together
to serve the church, to servethe body of Christ.
We had a wonderful,wonderful episode
today hearing about Dan story.
And, we've got a lot of lessonsthat have come from it.
Suffering not transformed.
(32:04):
Is suffering transmitted?
Please take that with you.
Understand how importantthat is.
Set up the guardrails,but dig deep.
Also, go to the roots and healyour entire person.
For everything on the outsideand everything
on the inside belongs to God,who made us,
who wants us to thrive,and who has destined us
to live with him forever.
(32:26):
And so, Dan and Karen,it is an honor for me to work
alongside the both of youon this wonderful,
wonderful mission.
And it's also an honor to,be a part of this wonderful,
wonderful podcast at thiswonderful organization.
Thank you very much.
And to all of our listeners,thanks so much for tuning in
to this episode.
(32:47):
Please join us againon The Covenant Eyes Podcast
and until next time,thank you, God bless.
Take care and we'llsee you again soon.
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