February 26, 2025 • 42 mins
Are you struggling with the pain of betrayal trauma? Do you feel lost and alone after discovering your partner's sexual acting out?
In this powerful episode of The Covenant Eyes Podcast, Karen Potter and Heidi Cooper sit down with Dr. Sheri Keffer, renowned marriage and family therapist and author of "Intimate Deception," to discuss the devastating impact of betrayal trauma and offer a message of hope and healing.
Dr. Keffer, a survivor herself, shares her personal journey and insights into the trauma experienced by betrayed partners. She explains what betrayal trauma is, how it manifests as PTSD, and why it's crucial to address the wounds of the betrayed spouse. She also offers practical advice for churches and clergy on how to create safe spaces for healing and emphasizes the importance of truth and safety in the recovery process.
Join us as Dr. Keffer shares her expertise, discusses her BraveOne community for women, and offers a special gift for Covenant Eyes listeners. You'll discover a roadmap to healing, learn how to rebuild trust in yourself, and find hope for restoration.
Don't miss this incredibly important conversation about healing from betrayal trauma and finding hope for the future!
DR. SHERI KEFFER:
https://drsherikeffer.com/
BRAVE ONE WEBSITE:
https://www.braveone.com/
SPECIAL OFFER:
Dr. Sheri Keffer is offering Covenant Eyes listeners a FREE MONTH in her BraveOne community! Visit https://BraveOne.com/covenant to sign up and receive a free download, "Learning to Trust Yourself Again."
_____________________
CHECK OUT OUR FREE 'RELATIONSHIP RECOVERY' COURSES!
https://cvnteyes.co/41YU8Od
_____________________
#covenanteyes #betrayal #infidelity #trauma
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction to Dr. Sheri Keffer
01:36 Dr. Keffer's Personal Story and Journey to Helping Others
06:04 What is Betrayal Trauma?
09:48 Betrayal Trauma and PTSD
14:29 The Healing Process for Betrayed Spouses
20:59 How the Church Can Help
26:49 The BraveOne Community
30:49 "Intimate Deception" Book Overview
35:32 Message of Hope and Closing
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back toThe Covenant Eyes
Podcast, Karen Potter here.
It's so good to have youjoining us.
We have got a great episodecoming up today.
We have Doctor Sheri Kefferwho is a regular co-host
of a nationally syndicatedradio talk show
called New Life Live.
She has an audience of over2 million people each week,
(00:21):
and for over 23 years,she has worked
as a Doctor of Marriageand Family Therapy in Newport
Beach, California.
Through her own personal storyof recovery,
Doctor Sheri understandsthe trauma symptoms often
associated with sexual betrayaland post-traumatic stress
(00:41):
as a certified partner,trauma therapist,
survivor, supervisor,certified sex
addiction therapist, a certifiedclinical partner, special,
a certified CouplesBetrayal Recovery therapist,
a certified clinicalempathy specialist,
and a consultant in eMDR.
(01:03):
She brings new tools and a freshlook at what is needed
not only to heal, but to heal.
Well, we are so excited to haveDoctor Sheri joining us today
for an interviewthat you will not want to miss.
Stay tuned.
(01:25):
We have DoctorSheri with us today
and we're really excited.
Do this every yearand just hear all that
you have to offerfor our listeners
and for all of us today.
Absolutely.
And, Doctor Sheri,while we're on the
the path here, let's talka little bit about who you are
and what you do.
I, we gave your bio, buthow did you get started
(01:45):
in this field?
What whatdrove you to this line of work?
Yeah.
Well, Heidi and Karen, thank youfor just
allowing me to be here today.
And it's it's so crazy how,you never think that
the heartache you had, I wouldsay, has been the deepest,
the widest,the most painful thing
(02:08):
that has ever happened to mewould be the thing that
you're talking about.
And the thing thatprobably has brought more hope
and understanding thatany other,
any other possible storyI could have spoken about.
And soI appreciate the opportunity,
(02:28):
but it it's it's my heartachethat brought me into the world
of betrayal traumaand decimation
that happened to meand my marriage to Conner.
And so, Conner, is a pastor.
Don't know if you knew that,but we we served in ministry and
(02:51):
in our relationship.
There was pornography.
Ultimately, I found outthere were affairs
and prostitutesand while we desperately
tried to get the helpwe were looking for,
we didn't get what we needed.
And, I'm not blaming anyone.
(03:15):
I think this wholearea of sexual acting out
and betrayal trauma has grownhugely since I
was in the middle of it.
And I'm grateful for that.
You all are grateful for that.
But I think, you know,up close and personal
to have experiencedthe sexual betrayal,
(03:37):
and to not know what to doto stop the painful things
that were happeningand our relationship feeling so
helpless and powerless and,scared, shut down in my own
femininity, feeling,very unfeminine and unlovely
(04:00):
and uncared for,unprotected, unraveled.
Those were things that I hadn'texperienced before,
ever in my lifeat this magnitude.
So it's that that got me intothe work.
And, you know, that'snormally I was a therapist
(04:21):
and we don't normally sharewhat goes on for us.
It just kind of I think for me,I was afraid
if I ever let the storyout of the bag,
that no one would want to comeand see me as a therapist.
But I was on New Life Radioand there was a
woman that called inand she was a pastor's wife,
and I felt like it's thatshe was suffering.
(04:43):
And I, I justI'll say, Lynn, I said, Lynn,
I don't know if you knowthis, this is Sheri Keffer
and I, I just want you to knowyou have my story.
I have your story.
And I, too,am a betrayed partner.
I was married to a sexaddict who was a pastor and
I just went for it, like,throw off the bow lines and the
(05:06):
the team that I was working withon that day at New Life.
They looked at meduring the break
and they were like,we didn't know
that's your story.
And I'm like, no,I know I haven't
shared it with anyone,but I just did
like in that moment.
But it was for the bestreason ever.
It wasbecause I heard another woman
who was in distress,and I knew that kind of pain.
(05:29):
And that moment is basicallywhat opened up this chasm
inside of me that, gave me,the courage
to start talking aboutwhat happened to me.
Thank you for sharing the storyand for your courage
to be vulnerablein that way at that moment.
(05:50):
It's amazinghow God, you know, uses
our circumstances in that way.
And you have beena beacon of hope to
so many spouses out therethat have felt
the betrayal traumathey have been through,
what you've been through.
So thank you for that.
Let's talk a little bitabout betrayal trauma.
And what is it,because some people
are not familiarwith the terminology.
(06:11):
And if they're menlistening to this podcast,
maybe they don'tunderstand the term.
Yeah, I'm I it's surprises me.
I thinkbecause there are so many of us
that don't see it as a thing,but it is the damage, the harm,
(06:32):
the impactthat happens to the person
who is unknowinglysexually betrayed in some way
can be any kind ofsexual betrayal.
And along and oftenwith the sexual betrayal.
There are these lies.
(06:53):
There's this hiding thethe blame shifting the
the pushback.
When we find something,we asked about it.
There.
There's this this animate.
I don't knowwhat you're talking about.
So that's an extra spin.
Not only haveyou just discovered
that your husband or significantother is or wife,
(07:13):
because it's both ways,is acting out in some way.
But then like, you know,a double blow
to have all the lies goalong with that,
that are so disorienting.
They make you question your gut.
Betrayal traumais any act that happens
(07:35):
that is outside of your consent.
So consent or wind is when twopeople come together
and they agree to bevowed to one another
to forsake all others, right?
Whether you're in a marriageor maybe you're in a
a partnershipwhere you're like, hey,
we we're we're a unit here.
(07:56):
We're not going outsideof our relationship.
Whatever agreement you've had,the sexual acting out is a
non-consensual meaning somebodydidn't come to you and say,
hey, I just want to let you knowI am going to
look at my phone today,or I'm going to take my iPad
into the bathroom,or I'm going to reach out
and talk to somebody onFacebook or wherever you are.
(08:20):
I'm going to reach outto somebody and I'm
starting to make connectionsand I'm sexually acting out.
There is this whole hidden worldthat you don't know about,
and that'swhere the betrayal comes in.
That's a deception.
Because there wasn't consent.
(08:43):
There was it like,you know, an agreement,
a handshake, saying,okay, I'm doing this
and I want you to knowI'm doing this.
I just want youto be able to be aware
or give me feedback.
It's all done secretly.
And that's harmful.
It's traumatic. It's not just,doing it and it's not hurting.
(09:07):
Anybody know it's hurtingthe one you're with
because they don't know about.
Yeah, that's that's really goodthat you bring up
that it is actual trauma.
You talk in your bookabout betrayal causing
actual PTSD.
Can you speak alittle bit to that of,
(09:27):
I know thatyou have some statistics
that you talkabout in your book,
and just how does thatplay out in someone's life?
I know there's probablya lot of people saying,
oh, come on, PTSD,that's a little extreme,
but can you share with usand our listeners just
how does it exactlyand to what degree does
it really calls PTSD for people?
(09:48):
Yeah.
And I think I know thisfrom my own personal story
and stories.
But as I satwith other betrayed partners
and began to watch what happenedto them emotionally,
to their body,to their relationships,
(10:10):
to their instincts,to their gut,
to their heart, to their faith,I felt like I was in
an emergency room,and I most days
I was like in the air, like,you know, trauma, a trauma site.
And I feel like I had bloodjust dripping down from both
(10:31):
elbows.
Not trying to be dramatic.
I'm not trying to be, you know,I just instinctively went,
this is causing harm.
And so I did some research,which is all in my book,
Intimate Deception, where I had100 women, 100 female
that are all experiencedsexual betrayal.
(10:53):
And I included in my researchthere's a
something called the PCL five.
It's, a measure as well as many,many other measures
that I had embeddedinto my research.
But it was a research studylooking at does this cause
post-traumatic stress?
(11:14):
Can this causepost-traumatic stress disorder?
Can this cause complexpost-traumatic stress disorder?
And what I found is that 76%of us had symptoms
of post-traumatic stress.
That's three out of four of us.
(11:35):
And it was so validating to me.
And I thinkfor the one who is betraying
is sexually acting out,I honestly and I love that
you all asked the question,and have I, the gentleman
to listen to this, or waswhoever's on the other side?
Because I honestly don't thinkthey know about the harm,
(12:00):
because they're so muchin the process
of acting out of doingwhatever they're doing.
They're not livingwith a dual reality.
They're not living with,this is going to
really blow her up.
They're living with,I need to cover this up.
This could really hurt her,but not like, damage,
(12:22):
you know, not like harm.
And so I've got men,I've got some pastors
have given my bookto some of their men's group,
and I've got menthat have read it
that have actually said,Doctor Sheri, thank you
for this resourcebecause I had no idea
what happened.
I had one guy reach out to me.
(12:44):
He called me and he just said,I have harmed my wife.
I've caused so much damage.
I read your book, you know,someone gave it to me and I had
no idea of the harm I.
Can you help me?
Can you help me get her to help?
Is this this reallyhonest, real awareness that,
(13:07):
he was finally taking ownershipfor instead of looking at
how quickly she can get over it,how quickly
I can kind of try to clean upthat mess, how quickly
I can gift her with whatever.
It's just talking to a womanvery recently who, you know,
(13:27):
betrayal trauma had happenedwithin these last
several months.
And, you know, he's trying totake her to nice meals
and to do some thingsto make up for it.
And she's bleeding out and inno matter what kind of dinner
he offers her,no matter what's on that table,
what candles, what way or whatwhere the location is,
(13:51):
she cannot go there.
She can't take it.
In fact, it's really hurting herbecause they're not having
conversations that are honestabout the impact of harm.
He's tryingtrying to sweep them forward
and she's trying to go there,but she's like, I just can't.
(14:13):
My heart isn't happy.
I'm just heartbroken right now,and I don't
I don't want to be here either.
I don't want to be wherewe're are,
but I just can't seem to bounceout of it
even with all that he is doing.
Yeah, I think that brings upa good point.
That is something that we hearquite frequently from spouses.
(14:35):
You know, they feelthey want to move forward,
but they physically can't.
They're not in a placeto do that.
Talk to me a little bitabout that process that a spouse
needs to go through to healand to to move forward,
because that is athat is a journey in itself.
And oftentimeswhen someone's struggling
with sex addictionor pornography,
(14:56):
the focus remainson that person struggling
with pornography, as it should.
But the spouse gets left behindand their wounds
don't get addressed.
So can you talk just alittle bit about that? Yeah.
We get missed.
We get missed.
We get missed bywell-meaning, well-meaning
(15:21):
counselors and therapistsand coaches.
We get missed by clergy.
We get missed because I thinkthe betrayal trauma piece
isn't really understood.
And the focus, like you said,Karen, is really on
(15:42):
the one who's acting out.
But we're over here.
Like a car accident.
Like, you know, the police.
There's a car accident.
There's a crash.
You know,the betrayed partner is wounded
like she's got tendonsbroken, stuff going on,
(16:04):
but the officeris actually talking
to the one who'sdriving the car,
pulling him overand interviewing him
as to the ticketand all of that.
And it's like,why am I not getting more care?
And then the shame of all of itis a complicating factor in you.
Both Heidi and Karen understandthis probably more than anyone
(16:28):
is when all this sexual stuffhappens.
We go inside,like if our husband
was an alcoholicand we were to share that
with some a friend,close friends, or small group
people would be.
But I'm so sorry.
It must be so hard, right?
(16:48):
We would,you know, have love and care.
But when it's sexual acting outand sexual shame
as the one who's been betrayed,not only do they carry shame,
we have carried shameand we isolate.
We pull away from the very helpwe need.
(17:10):
And, you know, we're like dovesin a cleft of a rock.
We're like, back in, in.
And I so often I'm like,come out, come hither.
You know, I,I want you to know I'm safe.
I will hear you, will hear you.
But one of the thingsthat I've created
is this betrayalrecovery roadmap.
(17:31):
These are all the phaseswhen somebody
comes into my presencethat I just am meeting
and they are in this zone.
This is the discovery, right?
That's the D-Day.
Then when they first find outthere's numbness,
there's isolation.
You can see people pull away.
(17:51):
But then the first thing I wantto do is start helping them
build their strength.
And you might go,what are you talking about?
Build strength.
They're lying on the floorover here.
They're they're hurt.
Well, they need to be validatedto like being in an ICU ward,
like a hospital ICU ward.
(18:14):
I want them to knowI see you right now.
I'm not going tofirst thing, start talking about
your family of originand what happened
when you were eight.
I will miss you.
And I think a lot of usget missed in good treatment.
A lot of us get missedin couples therapy
because what's notbeing addressed
(18:35):
is the ongoing deception.
And sometimes counselorscan unknowingly collude.
Pastors can unknowingly colludewith deception
because that person isn't inhonesty yet.
And so we need safety.
And that's whatthese two phases are for.
This is restoring safetyand the truth,
(18:56):
and this is the growththat comes from it.
But I there is a path.
There's a path for you to heal.
And I promise there are stepsthat you can take in order to
be validated.
Get your wits about you again.
(19:18):
You know, start getting intowhat kind of choices
you can make in orderto get safety and the truth
back into your relationship,because you've got to have.
Those are the two pillarssafety and the truth.
I have a lot ofthe trade partners
that try to get safe.
They try to get safein their own body.
(19:39):
They try to get safein the relationship.
But oftenuntil we know the truth
and until our significantother is in the truth.
We heal broken.
And there's a lot ofpeople that wander
and are wounded for many monthsand some years even have spent
(20:04):
thousands of dollars,and they're nowhere near
getting the truth.
They're just trying to top downwhat happened
without feeling safeand without having honesty
with story.
Right.
That's so important.
And you bring up to clergy,a lot of times there's a lot of
(20:26):
misperceptions, communications,that the church even gives.
That hurtpeople who have been betrayed
even more.
Can you speak to a little bit ofhow can the church help?
How can pastors how can,leaders make
(20:47):
church a safer placeto be for those
who are not only strugglingbecause there's
a lot more of that right now,but there isn't as much for
those who have been wounded.
Can you just, you know,some ideas for those
who would be listening,who are in ministry?
How can what can helpthe most on
(21:08):
that end from church?
Well, I gotta giveI just gotta give a high five
to your very own Sam Black.
Right?
Who came out with the book?
What the churchgets wrong about Porn
and How to Fix It?
And, Sam was kind enoughto allow me to write the chapter
(21:28):
in the book about the impactto betrayed partners
and the chapters calledwhen you have the right to say
enough is enough. Right.
And I, being a formerpastor's wife,
I love the church,I love clergy, I am for,
positive change and,churches becoming more open
(21:54):
to what I think we deserve aspeople of faith is the gold
standard of care.
Like,I really think that's what we
deserve is thegold standard of care.
And and so case in point,when there are situations,
let's say there is a churchthat has some recovery groups
(22:18):
that are there and there's thosethat are struggling
with sexual acting outand there's those
that are betrayed.
What can happen is withoutthe right confidentiality around
shared meetings,that wife might go home,
share something that sharedand group her husband's
(22:39):
in the other group.
And so now he knows stuffabout each other, vice versa.
And then the churchbecomes unsafe to them
because those those groupsneed to be 100% confidential.
It's not a time to sharewhat came up so that there
can be a safe place.
So I think that's something thatis something that can happen
(23:00):
right away to protect, I think.
I thinkchurches might be afraid,
might have some healthy fearof opening up
their own can of worms.
Right.
You start, having groups.
(23:21):
And I know there'sbeen some women that are
in my BraveOne communitythat have taken Sam Black's book
right to their clergy,their pastor, and said, hey,
would you be willingto read this?
Like, can we canwe start a group here?
And, sometime they'remet with, sure.
(23:43):
I mean, is this somethingyou're interested in doing?
You know, because, you know,all hands on deck, right?
And I know that they're eagerpeople
that want to help with that.
And I also have heard thatthere are situations
that they'rekind of tapped down.
Well, you know,I don't know that
this is really the placefor that in, you know, and
and then as I often talk aboutwhen I'm presenting,
(24:07):
I often present at RCC,the American Association
of Christian Counselors,where I get to talk
to counselorsand coaches and clergy,
all of that.
And I justcompassionately shared,
in the last year that there'sa high number of clergy
just like Conner,just like Mike Conner, that
(24:31):
are struggling and they'resexually acting out.
They're lookingat pornography or,
you know, they're acting outanother way, cybersex or affairs
or whatever is happening.
And they're leadinga congregation now there.
There's a percentage of themthat aren't
moving in their own recovery,because that might mean
(24:57):
their job.
That might mean the reputation,that might mean,
having to get honestand going into their own work.
And where am I going to do that?
Where can I do that withoutlosing everything?
And with Conner and I,we started to do the work
(25:17):
and things didn't change.
And eventually because of that,we did lose
our position in the ministry.
Devastating.
But for me, I think that wasI mean, we might as well
(25:37):
have gotten leprosy.
You know, we just lostall kinds of friends and
people and, money like Connerhad to go looking for a job.
And so it can be very scary,I think, for,
churches to be in integrityover this and take it all in.
But I know of other churchesthat are doing this.
(25:59):
They have horsepowerand there's they're
they're becoming waystations for people
to get healing.
So there's there'schurches in all categories.
But like you allare so compassionate.
There are Covenant Eyesand you want
to bring the message in.
You wantall of us just like my heart.
Y'all are so committedto let's do more.
(26:23):
Absolutely.
Thank you for sharing that.
I think, you talked a little bitabout the need
for that safe spaceand also for community,
but safe community.
I know one of the thingsthat you offer, Doctor
Sheri is the BraveOne community.
And I think that might bea really good tool
for some of our listenersout there
that maybe their church isn'tproviding the kind of care
(26:46):
that they need, but they do needthat community,
and they do need that safeplace.
Can you talk to us a little bitabout your brave gun community?
Yeah. Thank you.
So my community, I started itinterestingly
when Covid happenedbecause my book had
come out the year beforeand I had partners
reaching out to me.
Well, then we all rememberthe lights went out and I just
(27:09):
I feel like the Lord openeda door with me and,
a real dear friend of mine,Corinne, who, we locked arms
and I feel like we builtthis virtual ark of sorts,
for betrayed partners.
And it's for females.
It's a safe communitywhere you can come
(27:31):
and get healing for yourself.
Like I walk people through,what I call my BraveOne journey,
where no matterhow decimated you are,
you're in the placewhere you can start
getting care for your heart.
You can start getting clarityfor your mind.
(27:51):
You can start getting supportsafe without judgment.
You can start walkingthrough the BraveOne journey,
which is eight stepsto get to move towards
your wholeness.
And when I say that, I meanhelping to stop the crazy
stuff, the acting outthat's going on.
A lot of usdon't know how to do that.
(28:13):
And I'm like,I want to bring you
the gold standard.
And actually what I teachthe women in my community
is exactly what I teachtherapists and coaches
and counselors and clergy.
I don't hold back from them.
Why would I do that?
I'm like, no, this.
I want you to have it.
And and then in thereI have my empowerment wheels,
(28:33):
another toolI use right away, but
I it's a place of hope.
It's a place where youcan really bring it. And I,
it's it's it's safe.
We have like, lots of thingswe do on the entry level
to make sure that no botsor anyone outside of a woman
(28:56):
who's been betrayed gets in,and I'm grateful for that.
We we feel a huge amountof protection around that.
And and in fact,I, in talking with you guys
ahead of time,I would love to offer
a month free.
So it's a membership.
It's 37 a month.
You can stop at any time.
(29:16):
I'm not there tonot if it's not of service
to you.
Then I'm like,I don't want you to stay right.
And if it if service,then guess what?
We're going towe're going to work together
and I'm going to helpyou get stronger.
I'm going to help youstop what's going on
that's causingyou and your family
and the one who's acting out.
It's so much harm and damage.
(29:36):
So if you want to takeadvantage of that, because,
you guys are such dearpeople to me, right?
Covenant Eyes.
All you have to do isgo to BraveOne.com/covenant.
So it's B R A V E O N E.com andthen forward slash
(29:56):
and the word covenantC O V E N A N T
for Covenant Eyes. Right.
Just to make it simple.
And then justfor reaching out there,
I'm going to give you a freedownload called Learning
to Trust Yourself againwhich with all this happening,
the lying, the gaslighting,the confusion,
(30:18):
the blame shifting,all of that's being covered up,
it's a great resource.
So I would love,I'll be giving that
to your listeners as well.
That's amazing.
And we'll be sure to put a linkin the show notes
for our listeners out therethat would like
to take advantageof this amazing offer.
And certainlythis is a tool that I think
so many could really leverage,because there's
(30:40):
not a lot out therefor betrayed spouses.
And thisthis is definitely a path
that could really helpyou get that journey to freedom
and healing started.
So thank you so muchfor offering that
to our listeners.
Let's talk a little bit,Doctor Sheri, about you
love a bookthat I think, our listeners
also would be interestedin learning more
about the intimate deception,healing the wounds
(31:02):
of sexual betrayal.
I would love to talka little bit about what's
what can our listenersfind in that book, and
who is that book written for?
Great question.
So it is written,for anyone who's experience
sexual betrayal of any kind,like we talked about earlier,
(31:26):
non-consensual sexual acts.
Now, my research in the bookhas been done with females
because that was, you know,I had to narrow my perspective
to do the work.
But I have gentlementhat have been betrayed
that read my book as well.
I tell them just keepthe good stuff for you.
And if there's thingsthat are different,
because there are some thingsthat are different for men
(31:47):
that are betrayedthan leave that.
But, it goes through,it's not only my story.
I think that's important.
Really important.
So that you know right awaythat I know
what you're going through.
But it's alsowhat steps, what's a roadmap?
(32:11):
What are the stepsthat I need to take in order
to heal, to understandwhat's going on in my body.
There's a chaptercalled Your Bodyguard,
and I unpack all the symptomsthat happen in our body.
There's a wholechapter on boundaries,
that the title in that chapteris no is a complete sentence
because so many of usstruggle with boundaries.
(32:33):
And what we're supposed to dowith that.
There's a chapter onwhat the impact of the brain
that's it's calledwhen a diamond's
not a girl's best friend,because there is a diamond
plus in our brain, ourour anxiety centers
start firing.
We start ruminating on whathas happened.
Not any fault of our own.
(32:53):
We don't makeourselves ruminate.
We just start focusing in.
We're trying tofigure out what's gone on.
And then the limbic systemis the part of the brain
that holds highly chargedemotional memories.
And that's what makes us sad.
So we've got sad,anxious, ruminating and said
that chapter talksall about that.
And then there's the shame,the carried shame.
(33:15):
I mentioned it earlierthat sticks to us.
There's trauma inducedbetrayal, trauma
induced negative shames,that shame beliefs
that get wired in,the acting out.
And I have something called180 degree
turn around to help youstart doing some work right away
at getting away from the liethat got
(33:37):
wired in at the sexual act,the discovery to the truth.
So like, one that's common isI'm not good enough.
I'm not pretty enough.
I'm not smart enough.
I'm stupid.
How did I not see this?
Well, the truth is,you are enough.
And you might go.
I don't believe that.
(33:57):
And I'm like,I know that's okay.
You don't have to believe itright now.
But I give you a pathfor repairing your mind.
I'm stupid.
How did I see this?
What's the truth?
Actually? You're smart.
You were duped.
You were lied to.
And so it's not aboutyour intelligence.
It's about the hidden natureof sexual acting out.
(34:19):
I can't trust myself.
I can't trust my judgment.
I had those call themthe deadly duo.
And I did workin order to get back.
The truth was, which isI can choose whom to trust.
So it's okay not to trustsomebody for a while
when they're not trustworthy.
And I had to repairmy own gut instincts,
(34:42):
like, because I waslike, I don't trust my judgment.
And I had to relearnhow to trust my own
second brain, my gut.
We've got this brainand we got our second brain,
which is our gut instincts.
I had to relearn, my gutand how to repair that.
And then there are some,stories of hope.
There's a chapter onWhere is God
(35:03):
because there's faith,spiritual hurt.
So there's so much on many,many facets of betrayal trauma,
with the focus being on howI really desire
to help you heal.
And you can heal.
You don't have to.
You don't have to stay brokenlike I did for way too long.
(35:25):
I healed broken like a limbthat wasn't set right.
You can heal well.
That's beautiful.
And I think our listenerswould find a lot of value
and getting their handson that book,
so we definitely recommendchecking that out.
In closing today, Doctor Sheri,I would love to
leave our listenerswith just a message of hope.
(35:46):
You know, whether it'sthe spouses out there
that are feeling betrayal traumaor maybe there are,
you know, other spousesthat are potentially involved
in pornographyor sexual brokenness,
how just leave themwith the message of hope
for today's episode,if you would.
Yeah, if you can.
If I can justread one verse, it's
(36:07):
it's really powerful.
It's actually inJeremiah, it's Jeremiah 614
and it says that thisand I say it because I think it
it really speaks to both sides,both people, as they have
treated superficiallythe bloody broken
(36:29):
wound of my people sayingpeace, peace
when there is no peace.
Now, you might say,how is that hopeful?
Well, guess what?
The truth of it is.
We need to go deeper intoour own healing.
As a CSat, I'm a certified sexaddiction therapist.
(36:51):
I actually workwith those who compose
sexually, act outanywhere from porn addictions
all the way toall kinds of other types
of compulsive sexualacting out infidelities,
the sex addictions, all of that.
And do you knowwhat's underneath?
Often the sexual acting out.
(37:14):
It's trauma.
And so until they go intodealing with those wounds
of whatthey were trying to manage
when they were younger,most of them found it
between the ages of six and 12.
Porn.
And that porn is a gatewaydrug into all kinds of issues
(37:38):
with their idea around sexualityand what they use
to numb out painbecause they struggle with
emotions and feelings.
So not beingsuperficial, going into deeper
places of healing.
Now for us,I think how many of us
we just want to get awayfrom that wound,
(38:01):
that bloody wound.
And we're like, okay,I just want to be a piece again.
Now, the actually the ancientHebrew word for peace
back in the daywhen it was written
like Hebrew, in Hebrew, like,it's like Egyptian
or Chinese, it's word pictures.
(38:21):
Peace is to me, it means todestroy the authority
that establishes chaos.
So why am I talking about this?
Because non consenting sexualacting out causes harm.
It's chaos inside of one person.
(38:42):
And until that stops,how can you have peace or hope?
Right.
For the partner, we need to geton our own journey
and get into care.
But this is also interesting.
So the ancient Hebrew wordfor lust is ava.
(39:03):
And Ava isit actually means the the nail,
the strong nailthat hooks you to itself.
That's lust.
The strong nail that hooksyou all that sexual
acting out the the other word.
Another derivative is kavi,which means
what comes after the nail.
That's the word for hope.
(39:23):
So in the Bible from lusthave to hope kavi kava.
It's what comes after the nail.
And I and I knowwe're alike with this.
With you all Covenant Eyes.
We're in thethe missional purpose
of helping people get towhat comes after the nail.
(39:45):
My life has become a testimonyof that.
Yours have as well.
And I know many,many betrayed partners.
And there's significant othersthat are in sobriety.
They're in truth now.
They have grown deeper in that.
They've grown deepereven than they were
years before. Many of them,in their relationships.
(40:08):
Is it is it easy work?
No, it's not.
Is it dealing with the deep,going deeper and not staying
in a superficial,let's call it peace.
When there isn't peace,it's not.
It's not allowing thatto stay there
because it's really not peace.
(40:29):
And, there is true peace.
I see it,I can think of the people
right now.
I have so many storiesand faces in my mind.
And it can be youif you're listening right now,
there is a path.
It can be you.
You don't have tostay stuck in this.
You don't have to stayin the spin of this.
You don't have to stayin the helplessness of it.
(40:54):
There is a path of healing.
And and we're here.
I'm here.
My community is here.
Covenant Eyes is here.
We love you. We care about you.
And we want you to knowit's possible to make changes.
Absolutely.
And I think that isa beautiful way to close out
(41:15):
today's episode.
Doctor Sheri,it is been such an honor
to have you on.
You are so wiseand bring so much to the table
when it comes to this topic.
I know our listenersare going to want to get more,
so we will be sureto put all the links
in the show notesso people can connect
with you and your work.
Thank you for joining uson The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
(41:36):
Yes, thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you, Karen and Heidi,and I appreciate
what you all arecontinuing entity.
Absolutely.
And to all our listeners,thanks for tuning in
to this episode.
And we do hope thatyou check back in
and join us on the next one.
Take care.
God bless.
We'll see you again soon.
Welcome back toThe Covenant Eyes
Podcast, Karen Potter here.
It's so good to have youjoining us.
We have got a great episodecoming up today.
We have Doctor Sheri Kefferwho is a regular co-host
of a nationally syndicatedradio talk show
called New Life Live.
She has an audience of over2 million people each week,
(00:21):
and for over 23 years,she has worked
as a Doctor of Marriageand Family Therapy in Newport
Beach, California.
Through her own personal storyof recovery,
Doctor Sheri understandsthe trauma symptoms often
associated with sexual betrayaland post-traumatic stress
(00:41):
as a certified partner,trauma therapist,
survivor, supervisor,certified sex
addiction therapist, a certifiedclinical partner, special,
a certified CouplesBetrayal Recovery therapist,
a certified clinicalempathy specialist,
and a consultant in eMDR.
(01:03):
She brings new tools and a freshlook at what is needed
not only to heal, but to heal.
Well, we are so excited to haveDoctor Sheri joining us today
for an interviewthat you will not want to miss.
Stay tuned.
(01:25):
We have DoctorSheri with us today
and we're really excited.
Do this every yearand just hear all that
you have to offerfor our listeners
and for all of us today.
Absolutely.
And, Doctor Sheri,while we're on the
the path here, let's talka little bit about who you are
and what you do.
I, we gave your bio, buthow did you get started
(01:45):
in this field?
What whatdrove you to this line of work?
Yeah.
Well, Heidi and Karen, thank youfor just
allowing me to be here today.
And it's it's so crazy how,you never think that
the heartache you had, I wouldsay, has been the deepest,
the widest,the most painful thing
(02:08):
that has ever happened to mewould be the thing that
you're talking about.
And the thing thatprobably has brought more hope
and understanding thatany other,
any other possible storyI could have spoken about.
And soI appreciate the opportunity,
(02:28):
but it it's it's my heartachethat brought me into the world
of betrayal traumaand decimation
that happened to meand my marriage to Conner.
And so, Conner, is a pastor.
Don't know if you knew that,but we we served in ministry and
(02:51):
in our relationship.
There was pornography.
Ultimately, I found outthere were affairs
and prostitutesand while we desperately
tried to get the helpwe were looking for,
we didn't get what we needed.
And, I'm not blaming anyone.
(03:15):
I think this wholearea of sexual acting out
and betrayal trauma has grownhugely since I
was in the middle of it.
And I'm grateful for that.
You all are grateful for that.
But I think, you know,up close and personal
to have experiencedthe sexual betrayal,
(03:37):
and to not know what to doto stop the painful things
that were happeningand our relationship feeling so
helpless and powerless and,scared, shut down in my own
femininity, feeling,very unfeminine and unlovely
(04:00):
and uncared for,unprotected, unraveled.
Those were things that I hadn'texperienced before,
ever in my lifeat this magnitude.
So it's that that got me intothe work.
And, you know, that'snormally I was a therapist
(04:21):
and we don't normally sharewhat goes on for us.
It just kind of I think for me,I was afraid
if I ever let the storyout of the bag,
that no one would want to comeand see me as a therapist.
But I was on New Life Radioand there was a
woman that called inand she was a pastor's wife,
and I felt like it's thatshe was suffering.
(04:43):
And I, I justI'll say, Lynn, I said, Lynn,
I don't know if you knowthis, this is Sheri Keffer
and I, I just want you to knowyou have my story.
I have your story.
And I, too,am a betrayed partner.
I was married to a sexaddict who was a pastor and
I just went for it, like,throw off the bow lines and the
(05:06):
the team that I was working withon that day at New Life.
They looked at meduring the break
and they were like,we didn't know
that's your story.
And I'm like, no,I know I haven't
shared it with anyone,but I just did
like in that moment.
But it was for the bestreason ever.
It wasbecause I heard another woman
who was in distress,and I knew that kind of pain.
(05:29):
And that moment is basicallywhat opened up this chasm
inside of me that, gave me,the courage
to start talking aboutwhat happened to me.
Thank you for sharing the storyand for your courage
to be vulnerablein that way at that moment.
(05:50):
It's amazinghow God, you know, uses
our circumstances in that way.
And you have beena beacon of hope to
so many spouses out therethat have felt
the betrayal traumathey have been through,
what you've been through.
So thank you for that.
Let's talk a little bitabout betrayal trauma.
And what is it,because some people
are not familiarwith the terminology.
(06:11):
And if they're menlistening to this podcast,
maybe they don'tunderstand the term.
Yeah, I'm I it's surprises me.
I thinkbecause there are so many of us
that don't see it as a thing,but it is the damage, the harm,
(06:32):
the impactthat happens to the person
who is unknowinglysexually betrayed in some way
can be any kind ofsexual betrayal.
And along and oftenwith the sexual betrayal.
There are these lies.
(06:53):
There's this hiding thethe blame shifting the
the pushback.
When we find something,we asked about it.
There.
There's this this animate.
I don't knowwhat you're talking about.
So that's an extra spin.
Not only haveyou just discovered
that your husband or significantother is or wife,
(07:13):
because it's both ways,is acting out in some way.
But then like, you know,a double blow
to have all the lies goalong with that,
that are so disorienting.
They make you question your gut.
Betrayal traumais any act that happens
(07:35):
that is outside of your consent.
So consent or wind is when twopeople come together
and they agree to bevowed to one another
to forsake all others, right?
Whether you're in a marriageor maybe you're in a
a partnershipwhere you're like, hey,
we we're we're a unit here.
(07:56):
We're not going outsideof our relationship.
Whatever agreement you've had,the sexual acting out is a
non-consensual meaning somebodydidn't come to you and say,
hey, I just want to let you knowI am going to
look at my phone today,or I'm going to take my iPad
into the bathroom,or I'm going to reach out
and talk to somebody onFacebook or wherever you are.
(08:20):
I'm going to reach outto somebody and I'm
starting to make connectionsand I'm sexually acting out.
There is this whole hidden worldthat you don't know about,
and that'swhere the betrayal comes in.
That's a deception.
Because there wasn't consent.
(08:43):
There was it like,you know, an agreement,
a handshake, saying,okay, I'm doing this
and I want you to knowI'm doing this.
I just want youto be able to be aware
or give me feedback.
It's all done secretly.
And that's harmful.
It's traumatic. It's not just,doing it and it's not hurting.
(09:07):
Anybody know it's hurtingthe one you're with
because they don't know about.
Yeah, that's that's really goodthat you bring up
that it is actual trauma.
You talk in your bookabout betrayal causing
actual PTSD.
Can you speak alittle bit to that of,
(09:27):
I know thatyou have some statistics
that you talkabout in your book,
and just how does thatplay out in someone's life?
I know there's probablya lot of people saying,
oh, come on, PTSD,that's a little extreme,
but can you share with usand our listeners just
how does it exactlyand to what degree does
it really calls PTSD for people?
(09:48):
Yeah.
And I think I know thisfrom my own personal story
and stories.
But as I satwith other betrayed partners
and began to watch what happenedto them emotionally,
to their body,to their relationships,
(10:10):
to their instincts,to their gut,
to their heart, to their faith,I felt like I was in
an emergency room,and I most days
I was like in the air, like,you know, trauma, a trauma site.
And I feel like I had bloodjust dripping down from both
(10:31):
elbows.
Not trying to be dramatic.
I'm not trying to be, you know,I just instinctively went,
this is causing harm.
And so I did some research,which is all in my book,
Intimate Deception, where I had100 women, 100 female
that are all experiencedsexual betrayal.
(10:53):
And I included in my researchthere's a
something called the PCL five.
It's, a measure as well as many,many other measures
that I had embeddedinto my research.
But it was a research studylooking at does this cause
post-traumatic stress?
(11:14):
Can this causepost-traumatic stress disorder?
Can this cause complexpost-traumatic stress disorder?
And what I found is that 76%of us had symptoms
of post-traumatic stress.
That's three out of four of us.
(11:35):
And it was so validating to me.
And I thinkfor the one who is betraying
is sexually acting out,I honestly and I love that
you all asked the question,and have I, the gentleman
to listen to this, or waswhoever's on the other side?
Because I honestly don't thinkthey know about the harm,
(12:00):
because they're so muchin the process
of acting out of doingwhatever they're doing.
They're not livingwith a dual reality.
They're not living with,this is going to
really blow her up.
They're living with,I need to cover this up.
This could really hurt her,but not like, damage,
(12:22):
you know, not like harm.
And so I've got men,I've got some pastors
have given my bookto some of their men's group,
and I've got menthat have read it
that have actually said,Doctor Sheri, thank you
for this resourcebecause I had no idea
what happened.
I had one guy reach out to me.
(12:44):
He called me and he just said,I have harmed my wife.
I've caused so much damage.
I read your book, you know,someone gave it to me and I had
no idea of the harm I.
Can you help me?
Can you help me get her to help?
Is this this reallyhonest, real awareness that,
(13:07):
he was finally taking ownershipfor instead of looking at
how quickly she can get over it,how quickly
I can kind of try to clean upthat mess, how quickly
I can gift her with whatever.
It's just talking to a womanvery recently who, you know,
(13:27):
betrayal trauma had happenedwithin these last
several months.
And, you know, he's trying totake her to nice meals
and to do some thingsto make up for it.
And she's bleeding out and inno matter what kind of dinner
he offers her,no matter what's on that table,
what candles, what way or whatwhere the location is,
(13:51):
she cannot go there.
She can't take it.
In fact, it's really hurting herbecause they're not having
conversations that are honestabout the impact of harm.
He's tryingtrying to sweep them forward
and she's trying to go there,but she's like, I just can't.
(14:13):
My heart isn't happy.
I'm just heartbroken right now,and I don't
I don't want to be here either.
I don't want to be wherewe're are,
but I just can't seem to bounceout of it
even with all that he is doing.
Yeah, I think that brings upa good point.
That is something that we hearquite frequently from spouses.
(14:35):
You know, they feelthey want to move forward,
but they physically can't.
They're not in a placeto do that.
Talk to me a little bitabout that process that a spouse
needs to go through to healand to to move forward,
because that is athat is a journey in itself.
And oftentimeswhen someone's struggling
with sex addictionor pornography,
(14:56):
the focus remainson that person struggling
with pornography, as it should.
But the spouse gets left behindand their wounds
don't get addressed.
So can you talk just alittle bit about that? Yeah.
We get missed.
We get missed.
We get missed bywell-meaning, well-meaning
(15:21):
counselors and therapistsand coaches.
We get missed by clergy.
We get missed because I thinkthe betrayal trauma piece
isn't really understood.
And the focus, like you said,Karen, is really on
(15:42):
the one who's acting out.
But we're over here.
Like a car accident.
Like, you know, the police.
There's a car accident.
There's a crash.
You know,the betrayed partner is wounded
like she's got tendonsbroken, stuff going on,
(16:04):
but the officeris actually talking
to the one who'sdriving the car,
pulling him overand interviewing him
as to the ticketand all of that.
And it's like,why am I not getting more care?
And then the shame of all of itis a complicating factor in you.
Both Heidi and Karen understandthis probably more than anyone
(16:28):
is when all this sexual stuffhappens.
We go inside,like if our husband
was an alcoholicand we were to share that
with some a friend,close friends, or small group
people would be.
But I'm so sorry.
It must be so hard, right?
(16:48):
We would,you know, have love and care.
But when it's sexual acting outand sexual shame
as the one who's been betrayed,not only do they carry shame,
we have carried shameand we isolate.
We pull away from the very helpwe need.
(17:10):
And, you know, we're like dovesin a cleft of a rock.
We're like, back in, in.
And I so often I'm like,come out, come hither.
You know, I,I want you to know I'm safe.
I will hear you, will hear you.
But one of the thingsthat I've created
is this betrayalrecovery roadmap.
(17:31):
These are all the phaseswhen somebody
comes into my presencethat I just am meeting
and they are in this zone.
This is the discovery, right?
That's the D-Day.
Then when they first find outthere's numbness,
there's isolation.
You can see people pull away.
(17:51):
But then the first thing I wantto do is start helping them
build their strength.
And you might go,what are you talking about?
Build strength.
They're lying on the floorover here.
They're they're hurt.
Well, they need to be validatedto like being in an ICU ward,
like a hospital ICU ward.
(18:14):
I want them to knowI see you right now.
I'm not going tofirst thing, start talking about
your family of originand what happened
when you were eight.
I will miss you.
And I think a lot of usget missed in good treatment.
A lot of us get missedin couples therapy
because what's notbeing addressed
(18:35):
is the ongoing deception.
And sometimes counselorscan unknowingly collude.
Pastors can unknowingly colludewith deception
because that person isn't inhonesty yet.
And so we need safety.
And that's whatthese two phases are for.
This is restoring safetyand the truth,
(18:56):
and this is the growththat comes from it.
But I there is a path.
There's a path for you to heal.
And I promise there are stepsthat you can take in order to
be validated.
Get your wits about you again.
(19:18):
You know, start getting intowhat kind of choices
you can make in orderto get safety and the truth
back into your relationship,because you've got to have.
Those are the two pillarssafety and the truth.
I have a lot ofthe trade partners
that try to get safe.
They try to get safein their own body.
(19:39):
They try to get safein the relationship.
But oftenuntil we know the truth
and until our significantother is in the truth.
We heal broken.
And there's a lot ofpeople that wander
and are wounded for many monthsand some years even have spent
(20:04):
thousands of dollars,and they're nowhere near
getting the truth.
They're just trying to top downwhat happened
without feeling safeand without having honesty
with story.
Right.
That's so important.
And you bring up to clergy,a lot of times there's a lot of
(20:26):
misperceptions, communications,that the church even gives.
That hurtpeople who have been betrayed
even more.
Can you speak to a little bit ofhow can the church help?
How can pastors how can,leaders make
(20:47):
church a safer placeto be for those
who are not only strugglingbecause there's
a lot more of that right now,but there isn't as much for
those who have been wounded.
Can you just, you know,some ideas for those
who would be listening,who are in ministry?
How can what can helpthe most on
(21:08):
that end from church?
Well, I gotta giveI just gotta give a high five
to your very own Sam Black.
Right?
Who came out with the book?
What the churchgets wrong about Porn
and How to Fix It?
And, Sam was kind enoughto allow me to write the chapter
(21:28):
in the book about the impactto betrayed partners
and the chapters calledwhen you have the right to say
enough is enough. Right.
And I, being a formerpastor's wife,
I love the church,I love clergy, I am for,
positive change and,churches becoming more open
(21:54):
to what I think we deserve aspeople of faith is the gold
standard of care.
Like,I really think that's what we
deserve is thegold standard of care.
And and so case in point,when there are situations,
let's say there is a churchthat has some recovery groups
(22:18):
that are there and there's thosethat are struggling
with sexual acting outand there's those
that are betrayed.
What can happen is withoutthe right confidentiality around
shared meetings,that wife might go home,
share something that sharedand group her husband's
(22:39):
in the other group.
And so now he knows stuffabout each other, vice versa.
And then the churchbecomes unsafe to them
because those those groupsneed to be 100% confidential.
It's not a time to sharewhat came up so that there
can be a safe place.
So I think that's something thatis something that can happen
(23:00):
right away to protect, I think.
I thinkchurches might be afraid,
might have some healthy fearof opening up
their own can of worms.
Right.
You start, having groups.
(23:21):
And I know there'sbeen some women that are
in my BraveOne communitythat have taken Sam Black's book
right to their clergy,their pastor, and said, hey,
would you be willingto read this?
Like, can we canwe start a group here?
And, sometime they'remet with, sure.
(23:43):
I mean, is this somethingyou're interested in doing?
You know, because, you know,all hands on deck, right?
And I know that they're eagerpeople
that want to help with that.
And I also have heard thatthere are situations
that they'rekind of tapped down.
Well, you know,I don't know that
this is really the placefor that in, you know, and
and then as I often talk aboutwhen I'm presenting,
(24:07):
I often present at RCC,the American Association
of Christian Counselors,where I get to talk
to counselorsand coaches and clergy,
all of that.
And I justcompassionately shared,
in the last year that there'sa high number of clergy
just like Conner,just like Mike Conner, that
(24:31):
are struggling and they'resexually acting out.
They're lookingat pornography or,
you know, they're acting outanother way, cybersex or affairs
or whatever is happening.
And they're leadinga congregation now there.
There's a percentage of themthat aren't
moving in their own recovery,because that might mean
(24:57):
their job.
That might mean the reputation,that might mean,
having to get honestand going into their own work.
And where am I going to do that?
Where can I do that withoutlosing everything?
And with Conner and I,we started to do the work
(25:17):
and things didn't change.
And eventually because of that,we did lose
our position in the ministry.
Devastating.
But for me, I think that wasI mean, we might as well
(25:37):
have gotten leprosy.
You know, we just lostall kinds of friends and
people and, money like Connerhad to go looking for a job.
And so it can be very scary,I think, for,
churches to be in integrityover this and take it all in.
But I know of other churchesthat are doing this.
(25:59):
They have horsepowerand there's they're
they're becoming waystations for people
to get healing.
So there's there'schurches in all categories.
But like you allare so compassionate.
There are Covenant Eyesand you want
to bring the message in.
You wantall of us just like my heart.
Y'all are so committedto let's do more.
(26:23):
Absolutely.
Thank you for sharing that.
I think, you talked a little bitabout the need
for that safe spaceand also for community,
but safe community.
I know one of the thingsthat you offer, Doctor
Sheri is the BraveOne community.
And I think that might bea really good tool
for some of our listenersout there
that maybe their church isn'tproviding the kind of care
(26:46):
that they need, but they do needthat community,
and they do need that safeplace.
Can you talk to us a little bitabout your brave gun community?
Yeah. Thank you.
So my community, I started itinterestingly
when Covid happenedbecause my book had
come out the year beforeand I had partners
reaching out to me.
Well, then we all rememberthe lights went out and I just
(27:09):
I feel like the Lord openeda door with me and,
a real dear friend of mine,Corinne, who, we locked arms
and I feel like we builtthis virtual ark of sorts,
for betrayed partners.
And it's for females.
It's a safe communitywhere you can come
(27:31):
and get healing for yourself.
Like I walk people through,what I call my BraveOne journey,
where no matterhow decimated you are,
you're in the placewhere you can start
getting care for your heart.
You can start getting clarityfor your mind.
(27:51):
You can start getting supportsafe without judgment.
You can start walkingthrough the BraveOne journey,
which is eight stepsto get to move towards
your wholeness.
And when I say that, I meanhelping to stop the crazy
stuff, the acting outthat's going on.
A lot of usdon't know how to do that.
(28:13):
And I'm like,I want to bring you
the gold standard.
And actually what I teachthe women in my community
is exactly what I teachtherapists and coaches
and counselors and clergy.
I don't hold back from them.
Why would I do that?
I'm like, no, this.
I want you to have it.
And and then in thereI have my empowerment wheels,
(28:33):
another toolI use right away, but
I it's a place of hope.
It's a place where youcan really bring it. And I,
it's it's it's safe.
We have like, lots of thingswe do on the entry level
to make sure that no botsor anyone outside of a woman
(28:56):
who's been betrayed gets in,and I'm grateful for that.
We we feel a huge amountof protection around that.
And and in fact,I, in talking with you guys
ahead of time,I would love to offer
a month free.
So it's a membership.
It's 37 a month.
You can stop at any time.
(29:16):
I'm not there tonot if it's not of service
to you.
Then I'm like,I don't want you to stay right.
And if it if service,then guess what?
We're going towe're going to work together
and I'm going to helpyou get stronger.
I'm going to help youstop what's going on
that's causingyou and your family
and the one who's acting out.
It's so much harm and damage.
(29:36):
So if you want to takeadvantage of that, because,
you guys are such dearpeople to me, right?
Covenant Eyes.
All you have to do isgo to BraveOne.com/covenant.
So it's B R A V E O N E.com andthen forward slash
(29:56):
and the word covenantC O V E N A N T
for Covenant Eyes. Right.
Just to make it simple.
And then justfor reaching out there,
I'm going to give you a freedownload called Learning
to Trust Yourself againwhich with all this happening,
the lying, the gaslighting,the confusion,
(30:18):
the blame shifting,all of that's being covered up,
it's a great resource.
So I would love,I'll be giving that
to your listeners as well.
That's amazing.
And we'll be sure to put a linkin the show notes
for our listeners out therethat would like
to take advantageof this amazing offer.
And certainlythis is a tool that I think
so many could really leverage,because there's
(30:40):
not a lot out therefor betrayed spouses.
And thisthis is definitely a path
that could really helpyou get that journey to freedom
and healing started.
So thank you so muchfor offering that
to our listeners.
Let's talk a little bit,Doctor Sheri, about you
love a bookthat I think, our listeners
also would be interestedin learning more
about the intimate deception,healing the wounds
(31:02):
of sexual betrayal.
I would love to talka little bit about what's
what can our listenersfind in that book, and
who is that book written for?
Great question.
So it is written,for anyone who's experience
sexual betrayal of any kind,like we talked about earlier,
(31:26):
non-consensual sexual acts.
Now, my research in the bookhas been done with females
because that was, you know,I had to narrow my perspective
to do the work.
But I have gentlementhat have been betrayed
that read my book as well.
I tell them just keepthe good stuff for you.
And if there's thingsthat are different,
because there are some thingsthat are different for men
(31:47):
that are betrayedthan leave that.
But, it goes through,it's not only my story.
I think that's important.
Really important.
So that you know right awaythat I know
what you're going through.
But it's alsowhat steps, what's a roadmap?
(32:11):
What are the stepsthat I need to take in order
to heal, to understandwhat's going on in my body.
There's a chaptercalled Your Bodyguard,
and I unpack all the symptomsthat happen in our body.
There's a wholechapter on boundaries,
that the title in that chapteris no is a complete sentence
because so many of usstruggle with boundaries.
(32:33):
And what we're supposed to dowith that.
There's a chapter onwhat the impact of the brain
that's it's calledwhen a diamond's
not a girl's best friend,because there is a diamond
plus in our brain, ourour anxiety centers
start firing.
We start ruminating on whathas happened.
Not any fault of our own.
(32:53):
We don't makeourselves ruminate.
We just start focusing in.
We're trying tofigure out what's gone on.
And then the limbic systemis the part of the brain
that holds highly chargedemotional memories.
And that's what makes us sad.
So we've got sad,anxious, ruminating and said
that chapter talksall about that.
And then there's the shame,the carried shame.
(33:15):
I mentioned it earlierthat sticks to us.
There's trauma inducedbetrayal, trauma
induced negative shames,that shame beliefs
that get wired in,the acting out.
And I have something called180 degree
turn around to help youstart doing some work right away
at getting away from the liethat got
(33:37):
wired in at the sexual act,the discovery to the truth.
So like, one that's common isI'm not good enough.
I'm not pretty enough.
I'm not smart enough.
I'm stupid.
How did I not see this?
Well, the truth is,you are enough.
And you might go.
I don't believe that.
(33:57):
And I'm like,I know that's okay.
You don't have to believe itright now.
But I give you a pathfor repairing your mind.
I'm stupid.
How did I see this?
What's the truth?
Actually? You're smart.
You were duped.
You were lied to.
And so it's not aboutyour intelligence.
It's about the hidden natureof sexual acting out.
(34:19):
I can't trust myself.
I can't trust my judgment.
I had those call themthe deadly duo.
And I did workin order to get back.
The truth was, which isI can choose whom to trust.
So it's okay not to trustsomebody for a while
when they're not trustworthy.
And I had to repairmy own gut instincts,
(34:42):
like, because I waslike, I don't trust my judgment.
And I had to relearnhow to trust my own
second brain, my gut.
We've got this brainand we got our second brain,
which is our gut instincts.
I had to relearn, my gutand how to repair that.
And then there are some,stories of hope.
There's a chapter onWhere is God
(35:03):
because there's faith,spiritual hurt.
So there's so much on many,many facets of betrayal trauma,
with the focus being on howI really desire
to help you heal.
And you can heal.
You don't have to.
You don't have to stay brokenlike I did for way too long.
(35:25):
I healed broken like a limbthat wasn't set right.
You can heal well.
That's beautiful.
And I think our listenerswould find a lot of value
and getting their handson that book,
so we definitely recommendchecking that out.
In closing today, Doctor Sheri,I would love to
leave our listenerswith just a message of hope.
(35:46):
You know, whether it'sthe spouses out there
that are feeling betrayal traumaor maybe there are,
you know, other spousesthat are potentially involved
in pornographyor sexual brokenness,
how just leave themwith the message of hope
for today's episode,if you would.
Yeah, if you can.
If I can justread one verse, it's
(36:07):
it's really powerful.
It's actually inJeremiah, it's Jeremiah 614
and it says that thisand I say it because I think it
it really speaks to both sides,both people, as they have
treated superficiallythe bloody broken
(36:29):
wound of my people sayingpeace, peace
when there is no peace.
Now, you might say,how is that hopeful?
Well, guess what?
The truth of it is.
We need to go deeper intoour own healing.
As a CSat, I'm a certified sexaddiction therapist.
(36:51):
I actually workwith those who compose
sexually, act outanywhere from porn addictions
all the way toall kinds of other types
of compulsive sexualacting out infidelities,
the sex addictions, all of that.
And do you knowwhat's underneath?
Often the sexual acting out.
(37:14):
It's trauma.
And so until they go intodealing with those wounds
of whatthey were trying to manage
when they were younger,most of them found it
between the ages of six and 12.
Porn.
And that porn is a gatewaydrug into all kinds of issues
(37:38):
with their idea around sexualityand what they use
to numb out painbecause they struggle with
emotions and feelings.
So not beingsuperficial, going into deeper
places of healing.
Now for us,I think how many of us
we just want to get awayfrom that wound,
(38:01):
that bloody wound.
And we're like, okay,I just want to be a piece again.
Now, the actually the ancientHebrew word for peace
back in the daywhen it was written
like Hebrew, in Hebrew, like,it's like Egyptian
or Chinese, it's word pictures.
(38:21):
Peace is to me, it means todestroy the authority
that establishes chaos.
So why am I talking about this?
Because non consenting sexualacting out causes harm.
It's chaos inside of one person.
(38:42):
And until that stops,how can you have peace or hope?
Right.
For the partner, we need to geton our own journey
and get into care.
But this is also interesting.
So the ancient Hebrew wordfor lust is ava.
(39:03):
And Ava isit actually means the the nail,
the strong nailthat hooks you to itself.
That's lust.
The strong nail that hooksyou all that sexual
acting out the the other word.
Another derivative is kavi,which means
what comes after the nail.
That's the word for hope.
(39:23):
So in the Bible from lusthave to hope kavi kava.
It's what comes after the nail.
And I and I knowwe're alike with this.
With you all Covenant Eyes.
We're in thethe missional purpose
of helping people get towhat comes after the nail.
(39:45):
My life has become a testimonyof that.
Yours have as well.
And I know many,many betrayed partners.
And there's significant othersthat are in sobriety.
They're in truth now.
They have grown deeper in that.
They've grown deepereven than they were
years before. Many of them,in their relationships.
(40:08):
Is it is it easy work?
No, it's not.
Is it dealing with the deep,going deeper and not staying
in a superficial,let's call it peace.
When there isn't peace,it's not.
It's not allowing thatto stay there
because it's really not peace.
(40:29):
And, there is true peace.
I see it,I can think of the people
right now.
I have so many storiesand faces in my mind.
And it can be youif you're listening right now,
there is a path.
It can be you.
You don't have tostay stuck in this.
You don't have to stayin the spin of this.
You don't have to stayin the helplessness of it.
(40:54):
There is a path of healing.
And and we're here.
I'm here.
My community is here.
Covenant Eyes is here.
We love you. We care about you.
And we want you to knowit's possible to make changes.
Absolutely.
And I think that isa beautiful way to close out
(41:15):
today's episode.
Doctor Sheri,it is been such an honor
to have you on.
You are so wiseand bring so much to the table
when it comes to this topic.
I know our listenersare going to want to get more,
so we will be sureto put all the links
in the show notesso people can connect
with you and your work.
Thank you for joining uson The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
(41:36):
Yes, thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you, Karen and Heidi,and I appreciate
what you all arecontinuing entity.
Absolutely.
And to all our listeners,thanks for tuning in
to this episode.
And we do hope thatyou check back in
and join us on the next one.
Take care.
God bless.
We'll see you again soon.
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