November 14, 2025 • 22 mins
Join host Rob Stoddard for an insightful conversation with Alex Kocman, Director of Communications for ABWE, speaker, author, and church leader.
In this episode, Alex shares his journey into missions, the heart behind his book Striving for the Faith, and why he believes many churches lose sight of the “why” behind their outreach efforts.
You’ll hear deep insights on:
✓ What truly motivates mission work
✓ How every believer can live with outward purpose
✓ The growing challenges facing mission agencies
✓ How spiritual formation and accountability strengthen long-term ministry
✓ Wise pastoral encouragement for leading churches toward global engagement
Alex also discusses cultural pressures that make spiritual integrity harder today — and how Christian communities can respond with clarity, hope, and accountability.
📘 Alex’s Book: Striving for the Faith
🔗 ABWE: https://www.abwe.org
🎧 The Missions Podcast: https://missionspodcast.com
Get the Victory app to help with online accountability:
https://cvnteyes.co/4gb6xme
This conversation is an encouragement for pastors, church leaders, mission-minded Christians, and anyone wanting to live with greater purpose in their faith walk.
If you find this helpful, please like, comment, and share to support the mission of helping people live with integrity in a digital age.
#Missions #ChristianLeadership #ChurchLife #CovenantEyesPodcast #Discipleship #ChristianAccountability #ABWE #FaithInAction #SpiritualGrowth
Timestamped Chapters:
00:00 – Intro to the Covenant Eyes Podcast
00:32 – Welcoming guest Alex Kocman
00:57 – Alex’s personal journey into missions
01:47 – Serving in church ministry & ABWE
02:23 – Why communications matters in mission work
02:36 – Alex’s book Striving for the Faith
03:13 – Understanding your calling in ministry
03:36 – The church in Philippi as a model
04:29 – What it means to “strive together”
05:24 – Why churches forget the “why” behind missions
06:22 – The real motivation behind sending and going
07:02 – God’s glory as the center of mission
07:41 – Reaching newcomers and immigrants
08:07 – Mission opportunities created by global movement
09:15 – The Afghan Initiative story
10:55 – Why sending is still essential
11:36 – Challenges facing new mission candidates
12:17 – The spiritual battle facing future missionaries
13:56 – The call to spiritual purity and integrity
14:41 – Accountability and the role of the local church
17:05 – How mission agencies should evaluate readiness
18:39 – Encouragement for pastors
19:57 – Missions as an overflow of ministry
20:54 – How to find Alex’s resources
22:05 – Closing thoughts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Well, hello and welcometo another episode
of The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
I'm Rob Stoddard.
I'm your host today, going solo,which is unusual for us,
but we have a wonderful guestreally excited to talk
with Alex Copeman.
Alex is a father, husband,speaker, author, and probably
many more things,as well as the Director
(00:26):
of Communicationsfor the Association of Baptists
for World Evangelism.
So, Alex, welcome toThe Covenant Eyes Podcast.
Rob, thanks for having me on.
And also,just on behalf of ABWE,
we're grateful for Covenant Eyesand for the partnership
and have knownmany have benefited
from Covenant Eyes as well.
Ah, great. Good to hear.
(00:47):
Well, Alex, if you wouldn't mindjust starting us off today,
tell us a little bitabout your background,
how you got to where you'reat with ABWE
and all the other thingsyou're doing.
Well, the Lord likes to usethe least likely, and I
definitely put myselfin that category
because growing up,I was somebody who always felt
as though, well, Lord, don'tsend me overseas into missions,
(01:09):
don't involve me in any of thosesorts of things.
And by the timegetting into college,
the Lord had brought meto this point of being willing
and open towards that ideaand praying through that
with my wifewhen we were early on
in our marriage and sort ofopening up our hearts
to the possibilities.
And yet where he led us towas right back
to central Pennsylvania,which is not necessarily
(01:30):
where we thoughtwe'd end up being.
And yet the Lordled us into a role
here, in church ministryand also as senders.
And so I split my timebetween church ministry,
but then also served primarilywith a WUI in our
communications team,which really thrills
and excites me.
So I have a background,from college in, not only
(01:51):
biblical studies and some of thetoolset of ministry,
but then also communicationsand marketing.
And what we get to dohere is just celebrate and serve
our missionariesby telling stories of what God
is doing among the nationsand around the world.
And it's a real privilegeto hold the rope
for a growing familyof about 1000 workers
reaching in to 90 countries,and to hold the rope for them
(02:13):
by telling peoplewhat God is doing,
how they can bein prayer for them, and, just
reminding people that as crazyas things might feel like
they are here from time to time,that there's more
that's happeningbeyond our borders.
Well, Alex,you are also an author.
Recently, I think this year,released a book.
Tell us a little bit aboutwhy you wrote that book
(02:35):
and what it's all about.
Yeah.
So the latest book is,Striving for the Faith, journey
through Philippiansfor life on Mission.
It's sitting just behind mehere, and, really
the premise behindthat book is something
that I've wrestledwith for a long time,
and maybe some of our listenershave wrestled with this as well.
But, I, I've known people.
I'm around many of themon a daily basis,
(02:55):
people who feel very confidentof their calling.
I know I'msupposed to be a pastor
where I know I'm supposed to bea missionary and go to such
and such of a country,but for me, I always felt
as though II'm interested in this,
and I have this skill set here,but I don't know how all of this
meshes together.
And I think it'sreally easy for us
(03:15):
to see ourselves as sort ofbeing on the sidelines
of gospel Advance,when other people are more
on the front lines of that.
But when I look at the bookof Philippians,
what I see is a bookthat doesn't make sense.
If one thing wasn't trueabout the recipients,
Paul is writingto a group of people
and everything that he saysto encourage them.
(03:36):
In the book of Philippiansonly makes sense if you assume
and recognize that the churchat Philippi were all already
on mission.
Living outwardlywith their faith
and not keeping itto themselves.
Everything that he saysfrom chapter one to chapter
four only makes sensein light of that.
And when you look at chapterone, verse 27, arguably
(03:58):
kind of the mainpoint of the book, he says that
whether he's there or not,to see them in person,
he wants to see thatthey're striving
together side by sidefor the faith of the gospel.
So the question really is,what does it look like
for the whole body of Christ?
Not just the pastors, not justthe missionaries or the
professional Christians,but what does it look like
for every believerto be striving together,
(04:19):
sort of arm in arm, kind of likein this shield formation,
like you would imaginean ancient military troop
doing that to progressthe gospel together.
What does thatpractically look like
for laypeople and peoplein all sorts
of ministry positionsin the church today?
So really wantedto approach the book
with that in mind and seewhat can be mined, not just from
(04:42):
this helpful book of Scripturethat's full of encouragement,
but what could be minedspecifically for helping me
be outward with by faith.
That was the exercise,and that's what
we're inviting peopleto enter into.
Yeah. Excellent.
Yeah, such a valuable questionright there.
Recently I read somethingyou had wrote that,
(05:03):
often churches forget thewhy of missions.
And, can you talka little bit about that?
Why in, in do you feel likechurches really kind of need
to get back to that?
Why?
As a body to, toto do two more missions?
(05:24):
Yeah, I think all of us,not just the church, I think in
in all of the spheres of life,we forget why.
Why is one of the thingsthat's most easily relegated to
the background.
Many of us havemaybe heard that old Ted
Talk from Simon Sinektalking about Start with Y,
and he has the GoldenCircle principle.
And in the business worldit's very easy
(05:46):
if you're in sales,for instance, to talk about,
well, here'sthe widget that we make
for our company.
And aren't you interestedin buying one?
Rather than starting with whatthe company believes,
what mission drives it?
And then, oh,and as a result of that,
we happen to producethis widget.
But by the time you've invitedsomeone into that belief,
they're alreadyinterested in that.
(06:06):
And the same thing I thinkapplies to the church as well.
We send missionaries,I don't know, a single
evangelical Christian,and I'm interacting
with them all the time.
Who wouldn't say on some levelthat they support
missionaries, pray for missionsthat they believe in the idea
of sending out missionaries.
Of course, we want to be a partof the Great Commission
making disciplesof all the nations.
(06:27):
But why do we do that?
One of the things I thinkwe often get wrong
is it's not just out of,there is an element
of compassion that's key.
There's an elementof recognizing
that we have the gospel.
We owe it to those who don't yethave access to the gospel.
There's something like 3billion people in the world
who've likelynever heard the gospel.
(06:47):
They're unreached or closeto being unreached
with the gospel.
And of course, there's alsojust the duty
Christ commands us.
And that's true as well.
That should be enough as well.
But one of thedriving wise behind
all of it is a desirefor the glory of God.
It is a zeal that God's namewould be known
and worshiped in Christ,and that he would be honored
(07:09):
and not dishonored in the world.
You know, we're all missionariesfor something.
We're all constantlyevangelizing about something.
If I go to a great steak house,it doesn't take
a lot of extra effortfor me to start
to tell my friends about thatat the water cooler
the next day.
And by the same token,if we are aligned with God's
(07:30):
heart to see his name magnifiedamong the nations,
we won't be able to helpbut be about his work
against striving side by sidefor the advance of the gospel
in some way.
You know, we also see a lot,you know, people
say, well, we'rewe're missionaries,
whether it's here or overseas.
Well, certainly there'san important aspect to going,
(07:53):
being sent and going out. Butwe have a lot of immigrants
here in the US, right.
Are is the church doingwhat we need to do to
to reach those folks?
Is the story of folks coming in?
Yeah, we certainly do have a lotof immigrants here,
and that's a big topicof conversation lately.
One of the thingsthat I'm constantly encouraging
(08:15):
the church leadersthat I'm talking to,
we can walk and chew gumat the same time.
We can think indistinct categories.
So I can recognize,for instance, with respect
to the state, with respectto the government,
we need rule of law.
We need order,and we need to recognize
(08:35):
what a nationand what a people are.
Those are important things.
But we can also recognize thatdespite everything else
that's happening nationally interms of immigration,
God is still at work.
One of the thingsthat I love is ABWE
in my organization.
Was a part of launchingwhat we called
the Afghan Initiativea few years ago after the
botched withdrawalfrom Afghanistan.
(08:56):
One of the thingsthat happened is we were sort of
providentially connectedwith a group of underground
church leaderswho were now on the run,
and the Taliban had put a priceon all of their heads.
They ended up in a refugee camp.
That camp was closingdown. The Taliban.
You could then sort of assumeis closing in on them.
At that point, we were ableto help them come into the U.S
(09:18):
legally and to do so, not justfor work or for asylum,
but with jobs as missionariesto reach other Afghan migrants.
And now they're continuingas Christian, Afghan expats
to reach MuslimAfghans that are here in the US.
And we've actually seenseveral baptisms.
(09:39):
We're even seeing a churchplanted out of those
who have come to Christthrough their witness.
And so the nations arecoming to us.
And however that makes us feel,we should, in one respect,
recognize the gospel opportunitythat that brings.
I do think it's a mistaketo think that we shouldn't
then also sendmissionaries, though
we can't forget that what makesthe unreached unreached
(10:02):
is not just the factthat we look at them in
the majority of themare non-Christian.
What makes theunreached unreached is that as
far as we know,they don't actually have
access to the gospel.
These are people groups.
And we're talking about 2to 3000 people groups,
depending on how you count some,some as as high as 4500 or so,
(10:22):
distinct ethno linguisticpeople groups who, to less
than 2% of them are evangelicalbelievers.
They probably don't have a Biblein their language.
They probablydon't have any kind of a church
that they could visit.
Now, as soon as they come hereto the States, in a sense,
they're no longer unreachedbecause they are within reach
of hearing the gospelin principle.
(10:43):
But for those peopleswho are still in faraway places
beyond access of Scripturein their heart language
beyond the reachof a missionary,
we still need to beprayerfully sending.
Look, it won't be everyone,but we still need
to be prayerfullysending an elite, qualified few
to go to those farawaypeoples in places who do not yet
(11:04):
have the gospel.
That's right. Amen.
That's so, so important.
Well, Alex, if I can switchgears here around missions,
of course, you know, you know,Covenant Eyes is an
in what we do.
We've had the privilegeof working
with a number of missionorganizations over the years.
And, you know, of course,one of the issues that
(11:25):
we see growing is thisissue of of new people
coming into missions, work,new candidates in many, many,
many are struggling.
In fact, I, I spokewith one of the larger mission,
groups in the country and H.R.,recruiter and said that
(11:46):
they have gotten to the pointwhere they actually
even no longer ask the question,are you struggling
with pornography?
They're assuming itbecause so many are.
And so now they've kindof just gone to, you know, can
we redeem thisor can we mitigate this?
To qualify them or not?
So, you know,from your perspective in your,
(12:07):
your expertise and in missions,how do you see this problem
and what do missionorganizations
need to do about it?
One of the things that I seewhen I look at that trend is,
I do think that the enemydelights in using these vices
to keep peoplefrom the mission of God.
(12:30):
Now, don't get me wrong.
God can use youto make disciples, to be outward
with your faith,whether you're feeling
as though you're doingwell spiritually,
or if you're sort ofhobbling along and,
struggling in some areaor another.
That's not to say thatGod can't use someone.
But we also havecommands in Scripture
(12:51):
that tell us there aremoral character qualifications
for those who are going to begospel servants.
And a big part of that is ourpersonal purity.
And because of that,I think of the large number of
men and women,but especially men who have
disqualified themselvesfrom being used in some of those
particular ministries because ofgiving in to these vices.
(13:13):
And I, I think that partof the challenge is
also that we've imbibedthis assumption
that it is inevitable.
And maybe we think thatbecause of the ubiquity of,
you know, you seescantily clad members
of the opposite sex everywhere.
You see it all over your newsfeed, on your device,
your phone, your computer.
It's all over the news media,television, everything.
(13:35):
And so we think that thestruggle itself means that
also giving in to thatstruggle is
completely inevitable.
And that's simply not the case.
I don't think that Christ diedfor his people,
and so that it wouldbe impossible for them to gain
victory over it.
Paul writes to the Thessaloniansthat this is the will of God
in Christ for you.
(13:56):
Your sanctification,that you abstain
from sexual immorality.
And so I think the closerwe get to knowing the Lord,
the more holy will become,the more aware of our own sin
and insufficiencywill become as well.
And to serve Godand preach the gospel
means we're gonna havea very acute sense of our need
and our weaknessand our dependency
on him as creatures.
(14:17):
But also, Christ didn'tjust die for sin.
He was raised.
There is a victorythat's accessible to us.
We can fight.
We can make war on this sineach day through accountability
tools, but throughalso all of the things
that God gives usin the local church
the preaching of the word,the fellowship of believers,
the accountability that you canonly get face
(14:37):
to face from pastorsor from older, more mature
Christian friends.
And so I think all of thatadds up to say
it's incumbent on us nowto make war on the deeds
of the flesh for the sakenot only of our own holiness
and sanctification,but all of those
who need to see a purewitness from us, our neighbors,
and then out from thereto the nations.
(14:58):
Yes, it's you know, it is.
It's a it's a heart issue.
It's it's an issuethat only Christ can, can solve.
You know, Covenant Eyes,our software is a great tool,
and that accountabilityis, is necessary.
But it really is about thatdiscipleship, drawing
closer to Christ.
Driving out really these, these.
(15:19):
And so, we oftenwe've seen mission
agencies really just work onor focus on the behavior
as you kind of talked about,but really it is about
teaching that walk in andand getting people there.
So go get good,good information, great stuff.
Speaking, you kind of touchedon that, that cultural piece.
(15:42):
I mean, that our culture nowis so normalized, this hyper
sexuality and, and things.
And so, you know, as a churchjust in general,
do you feel likeour culture now is is
attacking the church like itnever has in
some of these areas.
In these areas, for sure.
I mean, I think that thethe sexual revolution
(16:04):
and everything thatthat's done to media
isn't going away anytime soon.
And in recent months,we've seen somewhat
of a vibe shift.
We're seeing it's a little bitless unpopular
to try out Christianity.
Some people,Joe Rogan, you know,
notably is now attendingchurch. Right.
(16:24):
So there's a growing interestin spiritual things,
but by no meansare some of these, you know,
literally the oldest temptationsin human history,
particularly of a sexual kind.
Those temptationsaren't going away anytime soon.
We have to be vigilant.
And, for as much as we think ofthe culture war
as something outward,we also have to recognize anyone
(16:45):
who's serving Christ.
Publicly.
There is aweak spot in their heart
and in their testimony.
I can think of a few prominentChristians, even within
the last few weeks,who we see statements
and apologiesand public repentance.
I was just on a long phonecall this morning
with someone who's,concerning someone
who's a missionarywho is also struggling
in this area as well.
(17:05):
Satan's alive and well,and using these things,
we have to be vigilant.
I do want to answer theprevious question as well, too.
You did mentionwhat should mission agencies do?
And I think,among many other things,
providing important toolslike Covenant Eyes.
I think we also need to leaninto the local church.
And I think we need to make surethat just because
somebody sort of raisestheir hand and says, oh, yes,
(17:27):
I'm willing to go and be sent,I'm willing to volunteer.
I'm willing to serve overseas.
Well, okay.
But let's askthe important questions.
Now.
Let's get into firstPeter, let's get into Titus.
Are you, are you a 1Timothy three?
Man, or are you a,are you a Titus two woman?
Do you meet those characterqualifications?
(17:49):
Do you have a trajectoryof victory over something
so that when you're throwninto a pressure
cooker of temptations,you know, wife
far away, away fromwatching eyes, you think
that you may stand a good chanceof standing firm.
And we need tolean into churches,
to not just rubberstampmissionary candidates
coming from their congregations,but to provide
(18:12):
the accountabilityand support that only a,
sending pastor and shepherdcan do biblically.
Yeah, yeah.
No, that that's right on.
So, so important.
Perfect.
Well, as we startto get to the end here,
I want togive you a chance to see
we have a lot of pastorswho listen
to the covenant podcast.
You know, if you have any wordsof encouragement, you know, that
(18:34):
you might want to give,pastors around missions
or anything else.
Go ahead.
My encouragementto to pastors and, say this as a
fellow elder, as well, but,I'm always sensitive
to when there's a churchor organizations
that sort of want to just selltheir product to pastors,
(18:56):
and to churches.
And here's the keyfor your ministry
that you're missing.
And here's the latest resourceor toolkit, for you
and so much of that,I think we, we see,
we we become numbto that as pastors
and shepherds and,and not all of that
feels sincere when it comesto missions.
It can feelincredibly distracting.
(19:17):
What do you mean?
I got to think aboutinternational missions.
Like I just dida funeral, right?
I'm doing a weddingin two weeks.
I have thisand that appointment.
I'm dealing with thisangry congregant.
I heard of a pastor recently.
You know, they weren'table to deal
with a missionary issuebecause their building
had just been,devastated by a tornado.
I mean, there'sall sorts of things
that assail us as shepherdsover the flock
(19:38):
and I fundamentally want to sayto, to pastors, that's
that's okay.
That's a feature, not a bug.
And missionsshouldn't be thought
of as an impositionon top of that or something
competing with all of that.
I think that missionand I want to say that's local
as well as global, right?
That's not just something we doin faraway places.
(20:00):
It is the overflow of ordinarypastoral ministry.
You know, the first book that Ihad the privilege
of putting togetherwith Chad Vegas, who's a pastor
in Bakersfield, California.
He's a part ofRadius International, another
great organization.
We put that togetherspecifically so that pastors
would have a tool in their handto realize, like,
I can be involved in missionsand I can be a part of my
missions committee,and I can do that.
(20:21):
It's not a distraction from myordinary ministry.
It's it's the overflow of it.
Because gospel ministrythere is not
fundamentally differentfrom gospel ministry here.
It's just far away.
It's in another languageand context and culture.
So don't be intimidated by it.
Lean into it.
Even with all the messthat it brings.
That's a naturalpart of the ministry
that God's called us to,but there's a way for us
(20:43):
to engage it as welland not feel as though
we have totiptoe around missions
or feel guiltyabout it or avoid it.
There's an ordinary waythat we can be a part of it,
and integrate itinto our churches as well.
Yeah. That's great.
I love that verbiage of overflowof our ministry.
It's, it'ssuch an important piece.
Well, Alex, been wonderful.
(21:03):
This time has gone so fast.
But, for our listeners,how do they find
your information, maybe some ofyour resources
and certainly your book.
Where do they find that out?
Sure, sure.
So we have a number of articlesand podcasts.
We have a weekly show,the Missions Podcast,
all that can befound at ABWE.org
or the show itselfat missionspodcast.com.
(21:24):
If they're on social media,you can just look me up
by my name,Alex Kocman, K-O-C-man.
And then those booksare out there too, on Amazon.
Or if you buy themfrom Founder's Ministries,
you can get themfrom the publisher
there as well.
So Amazon doesn't necessarilytake their cut.
But you can find thatjust by googling.
And I'd love to be in touchwith anyone out there
who wants to talk more.
(21:45):
Well, excellent.
And we'll put those inin the show notes
as we release this.
But, Alex, thank you so muchfor joining us.
Like I said, this went so fast.
I'd love to have you on and talka little, deeper
in some of these issues, but,again, thank you for joining us.
Thank you for your ministry.
Thank you for your work at ABWE.
We appreciate it.
Rob.
(22:05):
Thanks and appreciate all that.
You guys are doing.
Well, great.
Well, to our listeners,thanks for joining us
and tuning in.
Please share a like this.
And stay tunedfor the next episode
of The Covenant,Today's podcast.
That's it for today.
God bless. Take care.
Well, hello and welcometo another episode
of The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
I'm Rob Stoddard.
I'm your host today, going solo,which is unusual for us,
but we have a wonderful guestreally excited to talk
with Alex Copeman.
Alex is a father, husband,speaker, author, and probably
many more things,as well as the Director
(00:26):
of Communicationsfor the Association of Baptists
for World Evangelism.
So, Alex, welcome toThe Covenant Eyes Podcast.
Rob, thanks for having me on.
And also,just on behalf of ABWE,
we're grateful for Covenant Eyesand for the partnership
and have knownmany have benefited
from Covenant Eyes as well.
Ah, great. Good to hear.
(00:47):
Well, Alex, if you wouldn't mindjust starting us off today,
tell us a little bitabout your background,
how you got to where you'reat with ABWE
and all the other thingsyou're doing.
Well, the Lord likes to usethe least likely, and I
definitely put myselfin that category
because growing up,I was somebody who always felt
as though, well, Lord, don'tsend me overseas into missions,
(01:09):
don't involve me in any of thosesorts of things.
And by the timegetting into college,
the Lord had brought meto this point of being willing
and open towards that ideaand praying through that
with my wifewhen we were early on
in our marriage and sort ofopening up our hearts
to the possibilities.
And yet where he led us towas right back
to central Pennsylvania,which is not necessarily
(01:30):
where we thoughtwe'd end up being.
And yet the Lordled us into a role
here, in church ministryand also as senders.
And so I split my timebetween church ministry,
but then also served primarilywith a WUI in our
communications team,which really thrills
and excites me.
So I have a background,from college in, not only
(01:51):
biblical studies and some of thetoolset of ministry,
but then also communicationsand marketing.
And what we get to dohere is just celebrate and serve
our missionariesby telling stories of what God
is doing among the nationsand around the world.
And it's a real privilegeto hold the rope
for a growing familyof about 1000 workers
reaching in to 90 countries,and to hold the rope for them
(02:13):
by telling peoplewhat God is doing,
how they can bein prayer for them, and, just
reminding people that as crazyas things might feel like
they are here from time to time,that there's more
that's happeningbeyond our borders.
Well, Alex,you are also an author.
Recently, I think this year,released a book.
Tell us a little bit aboutwhy you wrote that book
(02:35):
and what it's all about.
Yeah.
So the latest book is,Striving for the Faith, journey
through Philippiansfor life on Mission.
It's sitting just behind mehere, and, really
the premise behindthat book is something
that I've wrestledwith for a long time,
and maybe some of our listenershave wrestled with this as well.
But, I, I've known people.
I'm around many of themon a daily basis,
(02:55):
people who feel very confidentof their calling.
I know I'msupposed to be a pastor
where I know I'm supposed to bea missionary and go to such
and such of a country,but for me, I always felt
as though II'm interested in this,
and I have this skill set here,but I don't know how all of this
meshes together.
And I think it'sreally easy for us
(03:15):
to see ourselves as sort ofbeing on the sidelines
of gospel Advance,when other people are more
on the front lines of that.
But when I look at the bookof Philippians,
what I see is a bookthat doesn't make sense.
If one thing wasn't trueabout the recipients,
Paul is writingto a group of people
and everything that he saysto encourage them.
(03:36):
In the book of Philippiansonly makes sense if you assume
and recognize that the churchat Philippi were all already
on mission.
Living outwardlywith their faith
and not keeping itto themselves.
Everything that he saysfrom chapter one to chapter
four only makes sensein light of that.
And when you look at chapterone, verse 27, arguably
(03:58):
kind of the mainpoint of the book, he says that
whether he's there or not,to see them in person,
he wants to see thatthey're striving
together side by sidefor the faith of the gospel.
So the question really is,what does it look like
for the whole body of Christ?
Not just the pastors, not justthe missionaries or the
professional Christians,but what does it look like
for every believerto be striving together,
(04:19):
sort of arm in arm, kind of likein this shield formation,
like you would imaginean ancient military troop
doing that to progressthe gospel together.
What does thatpractically look like
for laypeople and peoplein all sorts
of ministry positionsin the church today?
So really wantedto approach the book
with that in mind and seewhat can be mined, not just from
(04:42):
this helpful book of Scripturethat's full of encouragement,
but what could be minedspecifically for helping me
be outward with by faith.
That was the exercise,and that's what
we're inviting peopleto enter into.
Yeah. Excellent.
Yeah, such a valuable questionright there.
Recently I read somethingyou had wrote that,
(05:03):
often churches forget thewhy of missions.
And, can you talka little bit about that?
Why in, in do you feel likechurches really kind of need
to get back to that?
Why?
As a body to, toto do two more missions?
(05:24):
Yeah, I think all of us,not just the church, I think in
in all of the spheres of life,we forget why.
Why is one of the thingsthat's most easily relegated to
the background.
Many of us havemaybe heard that old Ted
Talk from Simon Sinektalking about Start with Y,
and he has the GoldenCircle principle.
And in the business worldit's very easy
(05:46):
if you're in sales,for instance, to talk about,
well, here'sthe widget that we make
for our company.
And aren't you interestedin buying one?
Rather than starting with whatthe company believes,
what mission drives it?
And then, oh,and as a result of that,
we happen to producethis widget.
But by the time you've invitedsomeone into that belief,
they're alreadyinterested in that.
(06:06):
And the same thing I thinkapplies to the church as well.
We send missionaries,I don't know, a single
evangelical Christian,and I'm interacting
with them all the time.
Who wouldn't say on some levelthat they support
missionaries, pray for missionsthat they believe in the idea
of sending out missionaries.
Of course, we want to be a partof the Great Commission
making disciplesof all the nations.
(06:27):
But why do we do that?
One of the things I thinkwe often get wrong
is it's not just out of,there is an element
of compassion that's key.
There's an elementof recognizing
that we have the gospel.
We owe it to those who don't yethave access to the gospel.
There's something like 3billion people in the world
who've likelynever heard the gospel.
(06:47):
They're unreached or closeto being unreached
with the gospel.
And of course, there's alsojust the duty
Christ commands us.
And that's true as well.
That should be enough as well.
But one of thedriving wise behind
all of it is a desirefor the glory of God.
It is a zeal that God's namewould be known
and worshiped in Christ,and that he would be honored
(07:09):
and not dishonored in the world.
You know, we're all missionariesfor something.
We're all constantlyevangelizing about something.
If I go to a great steak house,it doesn't take
a lot of extra effortfor me to start
to tell my friends about thatat the water cooler
the next day.
And by the same token,if we are aligned with God's
(07:30):
heart to see his name magnifiedamong the nations,
we won't be able to helpbut be about his work
against striving side by sidefor the advance of the gospel
in some way.
You know, we also see a lot,you know, people
say, well, we'rewe're missionaries,
whether it's here or overseas.
Well, certainly there'san important aspect to going,
(07:53):
being sent and going out. Butwe have a lot of immigrants
here in the US, right.
Are is the church doingwhat we need to do to
to reach those folks?
Is the story of folks coming in?
Yeah, we certainly do have a lotof immigrants here,
and that's a big topicof conversation lately.
One of the thingsthat I'm constantly encouraging
(08:15):
the church leadersthat I'm talking to,
we can walk and chew gumat the same time.
We can think indistinct categories.
So I can recognize,for instance, with respect
to the state, with respectto the government,
we need rule of law.
We need order,and we need to recognize
(08:35):
what a nationand what a people are.
Those are important things.
But we can also recognize thatdespite everything else
that's happening nationally interms of immigration,
God is still at work.
One of the thingsthat I love is ABWE
in my organization.
Was a part of launchingwhat we called
the Afghan Initiativea few years ago after the
botched withdrawalfrom Afghanistan.
(08:56):
One of the thingsthat happened is we were sort of
providentially connectedwith a group of underground
church leaderswho were now on the run,
and the Taliban had put a priceon all of their heads.
They ended up in a refugee camp.
That camp was closingdown. The Taliban.
You could then sort of assumeis closing in on them.
At that point, we were ableto help them come into the U.S
(09:18):
legally and to do so, not justfor work or for asylum,
but with jobs as missionariesto reach other Afghan migrants.
And now they're continuingas Christian, Afghan expats
to reach MuslimAfghans that are here in the US.
And we've actually seenseveral baptisms.
(09:39):
We're even seeing a churchplanted out of those
who have come to Christthrough their witness.
And so the nations arecoming to us.
And however that makes us feel,we should, in one respect,
recognize the gospel opportunitythat that brings.
I do think it's a mistaketo think that we shouldn't
then also sendmissionaries, though
we can't forget that what makesthe unreached unreached
(10:02):
is not just the factthat we look at them in
the majority of themare non-Christian.
What makes theunreached unreached is that as
far as we know,they don't actually have
access to the gospel.
These are people groups.
And we're talking about 2to 3000 people groups,
depending on how you count some,some as as high as 4500 or so,
(10:22):
distinct ethno linguisticpeople groups who, to less
than 2% of them are evangelicalbelievers.
They probably don't have a Biblein their language.
They probablydon't have any kind of a church
that they could visit.
Now, as soon as they come hereto the States, in a sense,
they're no longer unreachedbecause they are within reach
of hearing the gospelin principle.
(10:43):
But for those peopleswho are still in faraway places
beyond access of Scripturein their heart language
beyond the reachof a missionary,
we still need to beprayerfully sending.
Look, it won't be everyone,but we still need
to be prayerfullysending an elite, qualified few
to go to those farawaypeoples in places who do not yet
(11:04):
have the gospel.
That's right. Amen.
That's so, so important.
Well, Alex, if I can switchgears here around missions,
of course, you know, you know,Covenant Eyes is an
in what we do.
We've had the privilegeof working
with a number of missionorganizations over the years.
And, you know, of course,one of the issues that
(11:25):
we see growing is thisissue of of new people
coming into missions, work,new candidates in many, many,
many are struggling.
In fact, I, I spokewith one of the larger mission,
groups in the country and H.R.,recruiter and said that
(11:46):
they have gotten to the pointwhere they actually
even no longer ask the question,are you struggling
with pornography?
They're assuming itbecause so many are.
And so now they've kindof just gone to, you know, can
we redeem thisor can we mitigate this?
To qualify them or not?
So, you know,from your perspective in your,
(12:07):
your expertise and in missions,how do you see this problem
and what do missionorganizations
need to do about it?
One of the things that I seewhen I look at that trend is,
I do think that the enemydelights in using these vices
to keep peoplefrom the mission of God.
(12:30):
Now, don't get me wrong.
God can use youto make disciples, to be outward
with your faith,whether you're feeling
as though you're doingwell spiritually,
or if you're sort ofhobbling along and,
struggling in some areaor another.
That's not to say thatGod can't use someone.
But we also havecommands in Scripture
(12:51):
that tell us there aremoral character qualifications
for those who are going to begospel servants.
And a big part of that is ourpersonal purity.
And because of that,I think of the large number of
men and women,but especially men who have
disqualified themselvesfrom being used in some of those
particular ministries because ofgiving in to these vices.
(13:13):
And I, I think that partof the challenge is
also that we've imbibedthis assumption
that it is inevitable.
And maybe we think thatbecause of the ubiquity of,
you know, you seescantily clad members
of the opposite sex everywhere.
You see it all over your newsfeed, on your device,
your phone, your computer.
It's all over the news media,television, everything.
(13:35):
And so we think that thestruggle itself means that
also giving in to thatstruggle is
completely inevitable.
And that's simply not the case.
I don't think that Christ diedfor his people,
and so that it wouldbe impossible for them to gain
victory over it.
Paul writes to the Thessaloniansthat this is the will of God
in Christ for you.
(13:56):
Your sanctification,that you abstain
from sexual immorality.
And so I think the closerwe get to knowing the Lord,
the more holy will become,the more aware of our own sin
and insufficiencywill become as well.
And to serve Godand preach the gospel
means we're gonna havea very acute sense of our need
and our weaknessand our dependency
on him as creatures.
(14:17):
But also, Christ didn'tjust die for sin.
He was raised.
There is a victorythat's accessible to us.
We can fight.
We can make war on this sineach day through accountability
tools, but throughalso all of the things
that God gives usin the local church
the preaching of the word,the fellowship of believers,
the accountability that you canonly get face
(14:37):
to face from pastorsor from older, more mature
Christian friends.
And so I think all of thatadds up to say
it's incumbent on us nowto make war on the deeds
of the flesh for the sakenot only of our own holiness
and sanctification,but all of those
who need to see a purewitness from us, our neighbors,
and then out from thereto the nations.
(14:58):
Yes, it's you know, it is.
It's a it's a heart issue.
It's it's an issuethat only Christ can, can solve.
You know, Covenant Eyes,our software is a great tool,
and that accountabilityis, is necessary.
But it really is about thatdiscipleship, drawing
closer to Christ.
Driving out really these, these.
(15:19):
And so, we oftenwe've seen mission
agencies really just work onor focus on the behavior
as you kind of talked about,but really it is about
teaching that walk in andand getting people there.
So go get good,good information, great stuff.
Speaking, you kind of touchedon that, that cultural piece.
(15:42):
I mean, that our culture nowis so normalized, this hyper
sexuality and, and things.
And so, you know, as a churchjust in general,
do you feel likeour culture now is is
attacking the church like itnever has in
some of these areas.
In these areas, for sure.
I mean, I think that thethe sexual revolution
(16:04):
and everything thatthat's done to media
isn't going away anytime soon.
And in recent months,we've seen somewhat
of a vibe shift.
We're seeing it's a little bitless unpopular
to try out Christianity.
Some people,Joe Rogan, you know,
notably is now attendingchurch. Right.
(16:24):
So there's a growing interestin spiritual things,
but by no meansare some of these, you know,
literally the oldest temptationsin human history,
particularly of a sexual kind.
Those temptationsaren't going away anytime soon.
We have to be vigilant.
And, for as much as we think ofthe culture war
as something outward,we also have to recognize anyone
(16:45):
who's serving Christ.
Publicly.
There is aweak spot in their heart
and in their testimony.
I can think of a few prominentChristians, even within
the last few weeks,who we see statements
and apologiesand public repentance.
I was just on a long phonecall this morning
with someone who's,concerning someone
who's a missionarywho is also struggling
in this area as well.
(17:05):
Satan's alive and well,and using these things,
we have to be vigilant.
I do want to answer theprevious question as well, too.
You did mentionwhat should mission agencies do?
And I think,among many other things,
providing important toolslike Covenant Eyes.
I think we also need to leaninto the local church.
And I think we need to make surethat just because
somebody sort of raisestheir hand and says, oh, yes,
(17:27):
I'm willing to go and be sent,I'm willing to volunteer.
I'm willing to serve overseas.
Well, okay.
But let's askthe important questions.
Now.
Let's get into firstPeter, let's get into Titus.
Are you, are you a 1Timothy three?
Man, or are you a,are you a Titus two woman?
Do you meet those characterqualifications?
(17:49):
Do you have a trajectoryof victory over something
so that when you're throwninto a pressure
cooker of temptations,you know, wife
far away, away fromwatching eyes, you think
that you may stand a good chanceof standing firm.
And we need tolean into churches,
to not just rubberstampmissionary candidates
coming from their congregations,but to provide
(18:12):
the accountabilityand support that only a,
sending pastor and shepherdcan do biblically.
Yeah, yeah.
No, that that's right on.
So, so important.
Perfect.
Well, as we startto get to the end here,
I want togive you a chance to see
we have a lot of pastorswho listen
to the covenant podcast.
You know, if you have any wordsof encouragement, you know, that
(18:34):
you might want to give,pastors around missions
or anything else.
Go ahead.
My encouragementto to pastors and, say this as a
fellow elder, as well, but,I'm always sensitive
to when there's a churchor organizations
that sort of want to just selltheir product to pastors,
(18:56):
and to churches.
And here's the keyfor your ministry
that you're missing.
And here's the latest resourceor toolkit, for you
and so much of that,I think we, we see,
we we become numbto that as pastors
and shepherds and,and not all of that
feels sincere when it comesto missions.
It can feelincredibly distracting.
(19:17):
What do you mean?
I got to think aboutinternational missions.
Like I just dida funeral, right?
I'm doing a weddingin two weeks.
I have thisand that appointment.
I'm dealing with thisangry congregant.
I heard of a pastor recently.
You know, they weren'table to deal
with a missionary issuebecause their building
had just been,devastated by a tornado.
I mean, there'sall sorts of things
that assail us as shepherdsover the flock
(19:38):
and I fundamentally want to sayto, to pastors, that's
that's okay.
That's a feature, not a bug.
And missionsshouldn't be thought
of as an impositionon top of that or something
competing with all of that.
I think that missionand I want to say that's local
as well as global, right?
That's not just something we doin faraway places.
(20:00):
It is the overflow of ordinarypastoral ministry.
You know, the first book that Ihad the privilege
of putting togetherwith Chad Vegas, who's a pastor
in Bakersfield, California.
He's a part ofRadius International, another
great organization.
We put that togetherspecifically so that pastors
would have a tool in their handto realize, like,
I can be involved in missionsand I can be a part of my
missions committee,and I can do that.
(20:21):
It's not a distraction from myordinary ministry.
It's it's the overflow of it.
Because gospel ministrythere is not
fundamentally differentfrom gospel ministry here.
It's just far away.
It's in another languageand context and culture.
So don't be intimidated by it.
Lean into it.
Even with all the messthat it brings.
That's a naturalpart of the ministry
that God's called us to,but there's a way for us
(20:43):
to engage it as welland not feel as though
we have totiptoe around missions
or feel guiltyabout it or avoid it.
There's an ordinary waythat we can be a part of it,
and integrate itinto our churches as well.
Yeah. That's great.
I love that verbiage of overflowof our ministry.
It's, it'ssuch an important piece.
Well, Alex, been wonderful.
(21:03):
This time has gone so fast.
But, for our listeners,how do they find
your information, maybe some ofyour resources
and certainly your book.
Where do they find that out?
Sure, sure.
So we have a number of articlesand podcasts.
We have a weekly show,the Missions Podcast,
all that can befound at ABWE.org
or the show itselfat missionspodcast.com.
(21:24):
If they're on social media,you can just look me up
by my name,Alex Kocman, K-O-C-man.
And then those booksare out there too, on Amazon.
Or if you buy themfrom Founder's Ministries,
you can get themfrom the publisher
there as well.
So Amazon doesn't necessarilytake their cut.
But you can find thatjust by googling.
And I'd love to be in touchwith anyone out there
who wants to talk more.
(21:45):
Well, excellent.
And we'll put those inin the show notes
as we release this.
But, Alex, thank you so muchfor joining us.
Like I said, this went so fast.
I'd love to have you on and talka little, deeper
in some of these issues, but,again, thank you for joining us.
Thank you for your ministry.
Thank you for your work at ABWE.
We appreciate it.
Rob.
(22:05):
Thanks and appreciate all that.
You guys are doing.
Well, great.
Well, to our listeners,thanks for joining us
and tuning in.
Please share a like this.
And stay tunedfor the next episode
of The Covenant,Today's podcast.
That's it for today.
God bless. Take care.
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