Is This New 'Christian' Trend Actually Dangerous? | Melissa Dougherty Exposes 'Happy Lies' - The Covenant Eyes Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:06):
Hey, everybody, welcome backto The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
We're so gladto have you join us.
We are still at NRB and meetinga lot of amazing folks here.
Rob today is no exception.
We have got a great guestjoining us.
Oh we do, we do.
We've had some great ones.
But we're excited to haveMelissa Dougherty.
Yeah yeah.
You got it.
Yeah yeah.
Well welcometo The Covenant Eyes Podcast.

(00:28):
Thanks for having me on.
Yeah.
For our listeners,would you just start
tell us a little bitabout your background
and how you havegotten to either the ministry
that you're in today.
Sure. Yeah.
I, I became a Christian at 16.
Fell into some wickety-wacktheology, which is what
I wrote about and thengot into counter cult ministry
after that, which is,you know, Jehovah's
Witnesses, Mormons.

(00:48):
Maybe that's a strong word,counter cult.
But, that's kind of whatwe called it at the time.
And, that was in 2011and then got into
online ministryabout five years ago or so,
maybe kind of accidentally,and it turned into a thing.
So here we are, I guess.
Yeah, I love that.
And I love your full story.
And, you know, you have aYouTube channel.
I can share a lot of that.

(01:08):
So it's really exciting.
But, you have a journeyand you've seen
some of the dark side of thisdeconstruction movement.
You talk a lot about that.
Let's talkabout your book, though,
Happy Lies, because I thinkyou probably dive into some of
those topicsand yeah, that stuff.
So let's talk aboutwhat's in this book
and when does itcome out or is it out?
It's already out.
Perfect.
Yeah I think today.
What is the date today?

(01:29):
I think it's a month todayor tomorrow, something like
I just came out.
But yeah, it's called Happy Liesand it's about the New
Thought movements.
The subtitle is how a movementyou probably never heard
of shapedour self-obsessed world,
because everybody'sheard of this.
People are like,what's new thought?
No, you'veyou've experienced it.
Okay.
Even if you don't knowwhat the movement is.
And it's not to be confusedwith New Age, I think that's

(01:51):
where people go is like,oh, it's the same as New Age.
And, you know, at new ages,think of tarot cards,
psychic mediums, Reiki,reincarnation and karma.
I could go down a whole list.
It's more eastern.
Okay.
New Sai is more subtle.
It's more Gnostic in origin,and it's made to look Christian.
So it's.

(02:11):
Very dangerous.
Yes. It's very.
That's how I gotcaught up in it.
I'm like, oh, this is realChristianity.
This is, you know,true Christianity.
It's, metaphysical Christianityis what they would say,
which is there's a non-literalunderstanding to certain things
in the Bible that has a highermeaning and esoteric meaning.
This is where it can getkind of gnostic.
Think of, manifestationaffirmations. Oh, yes.

(02:35):
You know, and my friendAlisa Childers,
you know who that is?
Yes. Of course. Yeah.
Me and her had an insidejoke forever when I thought
I was a New Ager.
Basically, I hear, I mean,I was maybe 80, 20, it was,
I was, I was alwaysI overlapped, you know,
but we had an inside joke where,you know,
a progressive Christianin a new age or new thought are
really walking to a coffee shopand discover they believe

(02:56):
the same thingand become best friends.
We're like,what is this overlap?
How does this happen?
So I have awhole chapter on that about why
so many progressives sounds likea new theater.
Where does this come from?
The self-help movement,the foundation of the self-help
movement camefrom New Thought authors
like Dale Carnegie,Napoleon Hill,

(03:16):
Norman Vincent Peale.
All of them called themselvesChristians, but they're teaching
these new thought concepts.
Yeah.
And every chapter, it's secularand it's also religious.
So I go into the history,I go into some
controversial placesthat it's in the church.
Yeah.
There's something for everybodyin this book to get it out.
Like I leavenothing on the table
here, you know,and it's interesting

(03:37):
because you brought upsome names like Dale Carnegie, I
and any of us that have goneto business.
Oh, he's got some great stuff.
He's got some great material.
And it's kind of, you know,that's the indoctrination
you go through inbusiness school
and it's like, wow.
You sign up for one thing,but you don't realize you don't.
Then you're signing it.
Yeah, it's like a cookbook.
Yeah.
Like you'reyou're following this
really good diet.
But you don't understand thatthere's an underlying philosophy
that goes a long way.
Yeah.

(03:57):
It's kind of like that.
Yeah. Oh my goodness.
So what is the receptionbeen so far to the book.
Because I'm sure there are alot of people that are
a little offendedbecause they don't
realize they're probably walkingin this new kind of movement.
I haven't really gotten.
I'm still feeling that part out,if I'm honest.
I feel like I think in a yearI'll know how to answer
that. Yeah. Good point.
Because I'm like, yeah,this is it's an exposé

(04:18):
of this movement that looksand sounds Christian,
that you might be believing,and that's hard.
And I explained, that'swhat happened to me, though
I know how this feels.
Except it wasn't just likeI was dabbling in it.
Like I like Law of Attractionand visualization
and all these things.
And I was in it thinking itwas Christian.

(04:39):
And so I know what that feels.
But my attitude was,oh, I need to lean
and I need to repent.
Oh no.
Like I need to lean into this.
And so my hope is so farit's that.
But every messageI've gotten has been thank you.
So that's interesting.
I'm positive that there'speople out there that are not

(04:59):
they're not going to like it.
But I, I did I make a jokethat I lost my mind
writing this bookbecause I tried so hard
to have integrity, writing itto make sure that the, the,
the research was sound.
I did bootson the ground research,
so I, I went and I actually wentinto the unity centers.
I went into the placesthat believe

(05:21):
in progressive churches.
I had the conversations.
And they are wonderfulpeople. Sure.
And I think there'sa human sincere element.
Yeah, that I want to bringto the table.
Or I'm like you to understandsomebody doesn't mean
you affirm them,but I need to understand
completely what thisbelief system is for
you to know what it is.
And I did my best doing that.
And I hope that, you know,the research comes full circle

(05:43):
and people can see whatthis is, but also
why it's not biblical.
Yeah. now Melissa.
Yeah.
In your book, do you,just really explain
this movementor do you really counter
counter it with what the Godis explaining it?
Okay.
Yeah, most of it is.
I have two chapters.
Three?
Just educating the readeron what this is.

(06:06):
And the first halfis kind of more secular, like,
where is it in the,secular sense?
And then relativism.
I had to go over.
You can't believe thiswithout messing with truth.
Which is why,kind of like Happy Lies.
It's it's a it's a way of kindof bending reality
and truth to your will, but itthat sounds simplistic

(06:26):
in their mind.
It's not that simple.
And so it's really just here'swhat this is, here's
why it matters.
And every chapter expandson what this is
and how it's affectedChristians and and Christianity.
It sounds like a really deepread, like you're gonna want
to spend some time here.
It's hard.
Yeah, a little bit.
Yeah.
And I think itprobably will reveal

(06:48):
areas of our liveswhere maybe these
things have crept inand we really need to assess
where we're at.
What are some of the most commonthings that you're seeing?
You know, in the church todaywhere this kind of thought,
this stuff is sneaking in and,and we're just kind of unaware.
I think we'll I'llstart with one
and then I'll give a morecontroversial one.
First one is manifestation.

(07:09):
This is an enormous trend.
If there's any parents listeningright now, your kids are
are hearing about manifestationand law of attraction
and visualization.
The powers of the mind,powers of the universe,
things like that.
Can you explain what that means?
Yeah. This is, they all kind ofgo together.
I mentioned Law of Attractionand Manifestation.

(07:30):
Think of your thoughtsand your feelings
very specifically being magneticand have like
a magnetic frequencythat affects
everything around you.
Okay.
So it builds on this concept isa little geeky.
I called idealism,which is this idea

(07:51):
that the material worldphysically, everything you see
physically is a responseto your mind, which is why
you can think yourself rich,think yourself healthy,
think yourself.
Yeah, okay, so that'syour manifesting.
So and there'sactually a proper way
to use the wordwhere it's that it's
not what it means.
But that's typically, you know,the way it goes.

(08:13):
Same with metaphysical.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's like you gotto kind of define
a little bit more.
But manifestationis a big trend.
The other one, this onekind of gets people
is that the health and wealthprosperity teachings
are not inherently,solely in that camp that
I draw a line backthe historic line because I go

(08:34):
back to new Thought,because my frustration was, is
I left this movementand I'm seeing the exact,
phrasing, the exactscriptures, everything
in the church.
I'm like, what's theconnection here?
And it turns out that'sno coincidence.
There's a direct lineback to the New
Thought movement.
And so, that's just three.
There's a lot more you have,positive confessions with, like,

(08:57):
your, your mind or your,your words and thoughts
having power.
So what you thinkand speak creates your reality
because you'rea co-creator with God.
Everything I just said is a newthought concept.
Oh my goodness.
But I, I guaranteethat there are
Christians being taughtthat in a Christian context.
So, and that's just a few likethere's chapters, that go
over where this ismore in the church

(09:18):
and in society.
Yeah.
At the end of the day,what does this do to the church?
I mean, obviouslywith this creeping in
and the pressuresthat we see in culture,
I mean, culturejust kind of denigrating
around us, what is this goingto do to the church if we don't
get ourselveseducated, read a book
like this, know the dangers,and take action?
Well, I first want togive some grace

(09:41):
because I think thatif you believe this
as a Christian, it doesn't meanyou're not saved.
You can be in errorand still be saved.
I believe wholeheartedlythat you do not need
to have 100% good theology.
I did not I.
I believed the gospelradically changed and I believe
in some really crazy thingsfor a few years.
Sure. Yeah, right.

(10:01):
And then I came out.
So I do want to give grace.
That doesn't meanyou're like a heretic or
anything bad like that.
But I think what happens isthat you become
a spiritual cancerand you don't know it.
You are, in essence,misrepresenting what truth is
and you don't know it.
And I think when we know better,we do better.

(10:22):
And I really do thinkthat that's there's so much more
I could say on that.
But I would say thatin essence, that's what
what happens. Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. That's good.
Well, Melissa,we are really excited to share
with our listeners this book,and we want to encourage
everybody to get their handson this book.
In closing today,do you have some words
of encouragementto our audience?
Because I'm sure this is goingto open a lot of,

(10:43):
you know, a lot of eyes,a lot of new revelation
will come from this.
But at the end of the day,we still need hope
and encouragement for.
Yeah, for our future.
Well, I would say that.
Oh, there'sso much to look first.
Know what this is?
I think that,you know, knowing what this is,
knowing your Bible.
And maybe sidelininga few things like,
does this look secret?
Does this look new?
Who is it glorifying?

(11:04):
You know,these are the questions
that we gotta ask ourselvesand just something I kind of a
theme in the bookis not being afraid
of the light.
Right?
Like we always say,don't be afraid
of the dark and right.
Don't be afraidof the light. Yeah.
Because Jesus is the light.
And it's in

John 3 (11:18):
17-21.
And I quote that, and I thinkthat's really what it's about.
I would encourage you not,don't be afraid
to go in the dark, in the lightand be exposed for what
this is because, he says, thosethat won't come to him,
they're in the darkness.
And there is a false light.
Yeah, a light that is dark.
Yeah, absolutely.
Melissa, where do our listenersfind your book and more

(11:39):
more information about youand connect with you?
Yeah.
The anywhere you can buy books.
There and then I'm on YouTube.
That's why most people know mefrom and I’m
on all socials. Yep.
So yeah, that'swhere they can find me.
Okay. Awesome.
Awesome.
Well, and if you haven'tchecked out Melissa's
YouTube channel, it's amazing.
You have a ton of good teaching,a lot of great videos.
You you'veI think you've had Alan

(12:00):
Parr on your channel.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Everyone you know themwell audience.
So that's fantastic.
Well, Melissa, thank youfor putting the thought
and the effort into this bookbecause I know it wasn't easy
doing all the researchthat having to go in
and really research it well.
So thank you for this.
And our listeners will be back.
You guys, thank you so much forhaving me on. Of course.

(12:20):
Thank you,listeners, for tuning in
to this episodeof The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
We'll see you next time.

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Is This New 'Christian' Trend Actually Dangerous? | Melissa Dougherty Exposes 'Happy Lies'

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Is This New 'Christian' Trend Actually Dangerous? | Melissa Dougherty Exposes 'Happy Lies'