November 5, 2025 • 31 mins
Pastor Matt Chandler joins hosts Karen Potter and Rob Stoddard for an honest and hope-filled conversation about what it means to walk in freedom, even when you’re battling the same sins again and again.
Matt shares wisdom from over 30 years in ministry about confession, community, and cultivating deep affection for Jesus — the keys to lasting transformation.
🎧 In this episode:
✅ What to do when you feel like you’ll never change
✅ The difference between stumbling and being stuck
✅ How confession and vulnerability bring real freedom
✅ Why our affection for Jesus drives out lesser loves
✅ How the Church can become a safe place for the broken
💬 “No one in the kingdom of God is meant to fight alone.” – Matt Chandler
👉 Subscribe to the Covenant Eyes Podcast for more weekly encouragement and biblical truth about faith, freedom, and hope.
Resources mentioned:
The Village Church:
https://www.thevillagechurch.net/
Matt Chandler’s “The Overcomers” Podcast:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9H34FLdLLQjI_qX8EeCjY1pIEQzyag9L
Covenant Eyes:
https://cvnteyes.co/4gb6xme
#CovenantEyesPodcast #MattChandler #FaithOverFear #Confession #ChristianLiving #FreedomInChrist #OvercomingTemptation
Chapter List
00:00 – Welcome Back to the Covenant Eyes Podcast
00:21 – Meet Pastor Matt Chandler
02:23 – Why Do Christians Keep Struggling?
03:40 – Encouragement for the Long Struggle
04:35 – The Power of Growing Affection for Jesus
06:06 – Shame and Isolation in the Church
07:07 – Trials, Faith, and God’s Strength
08:05 – The “Grimy” Beauty of the Bible
09:37 – Grace for Those Who Feel Like Giving Up
10:12 – Confession: Moving Out of Darkness
11:20 – No One Fights Alone
12:16 – When the Church Gets It Wrong
13:09 – The Real Power of Confession
15:33 – When You Feel Alone in the Fight
16:27 – Re-Entering the Church Community
17:42 – Finding Safe People to Confess To
19:08 – What Pastors Can Do Better
20:12 – Why This Generation Faces New Challenges
21:28 – What Would Jesus Do Today?
22:44 – Creating a Church Where It’s Okay to Not Be Okay
23:47 – Building “Gospel Vulnerability” in Ministries
24:47 – Inside The Village Church’s Foxhole Model
27:12 – Where to Find More from Matt Chandler
28:50 – Hope for the Battle-Weary
30:03 – The Power of Greater Affections
31:04 – Final Blessing & Closing Thoughts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Hey everybody, welcome backto the Covenant Eyes
podcast Karen here.
So glad to have you joining me.
Rob is back.
Rob, how are you?
I'm doing good, Karen.
Thanks.
Good.
It's been a minutesince we've recorded a podcast.
Summer is Flying by.
Well, Matt, let us let usintroduce you.
Most people know you,but our guest today,
(00:27):
if you don't know,is Pastor Matt Chandler.
Pastor Matt is leadpastor at the village
church, in Texas.
Welcome to the covenantEyes podcast.
Thanks for joining us.
Could you just tell usa little bit about yourself?
Yeah. I, been at the villagechurch as the lead pastor
for to be 23 years,this December.
(00:51):
And so that that's beenkind of calling life, also super
involved in churchplanning around the world
through the 29 ChurchPlanning Network.
Was presidentfor a long time. Now.
I'm just executivechairman of the board.
So fancy title that just saysI work closely
with the now president.
(01:11):
Really, though, man, my wifeLauren is just deep.
Well, prophetic.
Beautiful, godly.
What a whata gift of a partnership
and gospel work.
She's been.
I've got three kids.
They're all like,they're they're getting older
and older as they do.
I've got my oldest is nowmarried and lives
(01:32):
about 12 minutes from us.
My, 19 year old is finishing upschool.
He's in trade school.
He'll finish in September.
He's still living at home.
And then he'll look to,transition out.
And then our baby,just got her driver's
license, and,she's about to start her
junior year of high school,and so that that that's kind of,
me, I have a deep heart,for men and women
(01:56):
to know and practice,the truth of the gospel.
To see it working out,in their day in, day out
activities toto burn for the presence
and power of God in their lives.
And that that's kind of marked,my 30 year run in ministry now,
trying to talk about thatand preach to that
(02:17):
and organize around thatand pray for that.
And, yeah,that that's kind of me.
Good. Well, great.
Well thank you.
And that really leads us intowhat we really want to talk
about today.
As you know, we at CovenantEyes, every day,
day in and day out, we dealwith so many people
who are struggling, strugglingwith the sin of pornography
(02:39):
and other things.
And for so many that struggleis ongoing.
It's a long, long strugglefor so many people
and would love to talk.
Have you talk todaya little bit about
how do we encouragesomebody in their faith
that is really going throughan overwhelming
long struggle like thisand often doubting their faith?
I mean, many of these areprofessing Christians, but yet
(03:02):
they're still struggling.
So I want to start outjust to kind of address
that issue a little bitfor all these people
who are strugglingfor so long but
really struggling, how does thisaffect my faith?
Yeah, I, I think that I don'tthink, the Bible's fairly clear,
that, we are going to strugglewith our faith,
(03:26):
throughout our lives.
In fact, in a lot of peoplewho give up on the fight,
have lost sight.
That's the wayI kind of try to teach,
the village, sanctificationor how we become made more
and more like.
Jesus.
It's not up into the right.
Like nobody in the history ofChristianity has had an up
(03:47):
and to the right experience.
It really is a series.
I like to teach itwith the image of like a
horizontal coil,laid in front of you,
that every high and every lowand every battle
and every struggleis still moving.
You forward towardsbecoming like Jesus.
And so that's the, for me,the encouragement
(04:09):
that I want to give anybodyis just keep going,
keep getting backup, keep moving towards Jesus.
And really, the, the victory,that I've seen people walk in,
is a mixture ofthe explosive power
of new affection, and, and then,some discipline around,
(04:33):
what windows and doors are open.
And so what I mean by that,is real true
change, transformation,that I've seen in the lives
of Christians,whether it's pornography
or drugs and alcoholor perfectionism
and people pleasing,which can create
just as much damage, in a lifeand in a family,
(04:56):
really has to do primarily with,I want to orient my life
around an everincreasing affection for Jesus.
And so when I think of, that,like I've often said,
like the kind of bannerover my life and my
33 years of followingJesus is found in Psalm
(05:16):
27 verse four, where David saysone thing I ask
and all that I seekis that I might dwell
in the house of the Lordall the days of my life, to gaze
upon the beauty of the Lord,and to seek him in his temple.
And so if you're struggling withthe besetting set,
I think we've got toask some questions.
Is this, like, are you stumblingor are you in bondage?
(05:42):
And regardlessof what the answer is,
I think if it's bondage,then we've got
some significant workto do below the surface.
But I think what drives outlesser loves
is not just disciplineand software that block stuff
and good accountability,but a growing affection,
(06:03):
that drives outthe lesser affection.
And I think this is the problemsome people have when it comes
to fighting against the flesh,is they just try to do it
with disciplineand accountability,
but then you end up honestly,experientially,
you become the guythat every time or gal
that every time you'rein a small group, you're talking
about pornography, and then youstart going, they're so tired
(06:26):
of hearing this, and youstart withdrawing
from that confession.
And those are the men and womenthat end up giving up.
And I don't want you to give up.
And so I'm not sayingthose things are important.
I think accountabilityis super important.
I think coveted eyes andand software like that is
super important.
But if you're neglectingand this is what shame does,
this is a nowthis is the devil's
(06:47):
playground right here.
God, I hate that loser.
But he what he wants to dois keep you away from the Lord.
Because the moreyou go to the Lord,
the more your affections for himare going to grow, and the more
your affectionsfor Jesus, or hot
the lesser loves,the lesser affections
lose a lot of powerthat's out there.
That's a long answerto a short question.
I love that, and that was great.
(07:08):
I think, you know, thatkind of leads us
to talk a little bit about whatScripture teach us, teaches us
about the connectionbetween trials and strengthening
our faith.
Because oftentimes, you know,we can see trials and setbacks
as us failing.
And, you know, it's, you know,God doesn't love me.
Or we can thinkall sorts of things.
(07:28):
And it's like, actually,in those trials, God is there.
So let's talka little bit about that
and how he gives us strengthand how he is our strength
in those times.
So, I mean, you can either do itvia narrative.
And what I mean by narrative isI like to highlight all the time
at the villagethat no one in the Bible
could get hiredat the village church, just our
(07:51):
background checks going to.
I mean, it's going to flagmurder and violence
and sexual perversion and like,you can't other than Jesus
and maybe Daniel, you got nobodylike Moses in
getting hired here.
I mean, you have to go.
Hey, tell me about that guyyou murdered
when you in your 20s.
And I heard youfreaked out at work
the other day.
Started smashing stuffwith your staff.
(08:13):
Like we're not letting him runKids Village,
I can tell you that right now.
Or David, a man afterGod's own heart.
The the grimyness of the Bible exists
to give you confidencethat there's space
for you, right?
That that's that'swhy the book's so grimy.
That's why God's alwaysusing broken, fallible people.
(08:34):
Because that's all there is.
And so you're actually even,statistically speaking,
you're not alone in this fight.
We're lining up really wellwith a lot of the people
in the Bible who are profoundlyand powerfully used by God.
So you could go about itkind of with the narrative
of Scripture.
Pick a guy, pick a guy,you pick Jeremiah,
you can pick Paul,you can pick Moses,
(08:55):
you can pick Noah.
You I mean, pick a God.
You can't pick Jesus or Daniel.
But anybody else in the book,deep, terrible flaws
that would more than likelykeep them from being hired
by any church that doesa good background check on
their employees.
So that's one wayto approach it.
The second way is repeatedlyin Pauline epistles and in other
(09:16):
parts of the Bible.
They are clearthat struggle creates
a kind of resilienceand perseverance,
if you will endure till the end.
And that's the bigkind of press.
Keep getting up.
Jesus knew what he wasbuying on the cross look like.
(09:37):
He's not like looking at you.
Now I'm going, oh, I so regretdying for this bump
since he actually knewyou were a bum, which is why
he went to the cross.
I mean, that's the workspacerighteousness stuff
that'll reallyget me frustrated.
Like the righteous requirementsof the law cannot save anyone.
(09:59):
Only Jesus can.
Which is why, then,if you're coming off
the worst pornbender of your life,
I'm telling you,get into the presence
of Jesus, seek forgiveness,loop back into your community.
Stop creating distancebetween you and the Lord
because the Lord doesn'twant the distance.
He is producing somethingin this struggle,
(10:22):
in this wrestle that the fruit,when all said and done is,
is really beyondyour imagination right
now, on the bottom of that coil,remember, like coil up and down
every high and low,moving us towards him.
Right. So.
So you could do it.
Narrow table.
You could do James one.
You could do Philippians three.
There are all sorts of textthat go, no, no, no, expect
(10:44):
struggle, struggle.
Well don't give up.
Endure. Yeah.
So true, so true.
Good verses.
You mentionedshame earlier and we,
we see that so often.
Shame really justit keeps people in silence.
So often they're not confessing.
They're not engaging in talkingwith the community with a body
(11:07):
and growing their, you know,talk a little bit about that
role of confession in James 516,the confession and the community
of growing our faithtogether through that and why
that's so important.
Yet no one and I mean no one,I would say it like this.
There are no Jason Bournesin the kingdom of God.
(11:28):
There's no one manarmy that can take on
all the works of the enemy,and it just doesn't exist.
And so the good gift ofGod's grace,
is the people of God.
I wish I was get if I'm being,If I'm being honest.
Rob, sometimes I get nervousabout this question
(11:49):
in particular,because I know there's
some very unhealthy,legalistic churches
where someone could dowhat the Bible said
and not be handledwith the grace and mercy
that Christ wouldhave us handle them.
And so, I, I think the Bibleis clear and church
history is clear,that confession is a good gift
(12:11):
of God's grace to move us outof darkness and into the light.
And if you're ina healthy church,
confession is met with graceand a moving towards,
like I'll oftensay at the village,
you will not confessanything here
that makes anyone gasplike we've just been
(12:32):
in this too long.
I mean, we had a guy,OD'd in one of our bathrooms
with a needle in his arm.
I mean, we are we?
The church should alwaysbe a bit grimy.
If there's any new birth there.
So any new life?
If you're reallyin the mission of God
hurting, desperate people aregoing to be there and hurting
desperate people are hurtingand desperate.
(12:53):
But confession drags darknessinto the light.
And the promise,we read in the first five verses
of the Gospel of John,I think it is verse five
that the light has shownin the darkness,
and the darknesshas not overcome it.
So when you confessand on confession, I mean, like,
(13:13):
confess it, and and let it be asugly as it is.
And so what, I mean by that islike a real,
true, broken hearted,repentant confession
might not just be, oh, I've beenlooking at porn.
It might includethe type of porn wherever
that root of shame is,that's what you want
(13:34):
to bring out into confession,whatever the lie is that
if anybody knewthat I was looking at this type
of pornography, then, man,there would be no grace for me.
That's the confession.
That's when you get the lightshining in the darkness,
not the ambiguous.
Really strugglingwith lust this week
that that's not going to do it.
It's not ugly enough.
(13:55):
It's not dark enough.
It's not the root.
But the scriptures call usto the ongoing
ethic of confession.
Confession is something we doto become Christians.
It's a weapon we use to stayin the light and feel free,
to approachthe God of all creation
with no secrets.
(14:16):
Not that we wouldhave any, anyway,
but we're confessing to God.
We're confessing to others.
Others become themanifest presence of God to us.
They weep with us,they move towards us,
and in they're movingtowards us.
We're remindedthat God Himself moves
towards us in our sinand brokenness.
The longer you hold it in,the longer you're quiet.
(14:39):
The longer it's a secret,the more powerful it becomes,
and the less likely you areto actually consecrate yourself
and confess those things.
I was talking toyoung adults last night,
and I was justpleading with them,
to kill any babylions in their lives
before those lionsbecome full grown.
Like it'snever going to be easier
(15:00):
than it is right now at 22,come into the light.
And this is therole of confession.
It moves us out of darknessand into the light.
That is so good.
And there's something so freeingwhen we confess and we share
those burdens with one another.
I mean, it'ssuch a relief to know
that we have communityin our churches,
that we can do thatand feel that,
(15:21):
and God can relieve that on our,you know, relieve that burden.
I want to talka little bit about, you know,
there's a lot of,people that we work
with at Covenant Eyeswho come into Covenant Eyes.
They want to find freedom.
They're seeking afterGod's heart.
They are alone, though,because porn has
pulled them awayfrom their family
(15:41):
or their friends,and it's really
caused a lot of havoc.
And so they don't have anyoneto walk alongside them.
They maybe don'tfeel comfortable confessing yet.
Which, you know, there's a callto do that,
but how do we help them with,you know, habits and things?
How do we exercise thatmuscle of being vulnerable
and confessing our sins?
(16:02):
Like, what are some pointersand tips for people
that are just scared?
Yeah.
So there's there'stwo ways to go about it.
The first I would notrecommend, but it is a way
the first would be I, I justthink the Church of Jesus
Christ is a good gift,for the people of God.
Remember, even the writerof Hebrews like, don't neglect
(16:24):
this, don't neglect this.
Like, this is your safe spot.
This is where you're going to bereminded of the gospel.
This is where you'regoing to find grace.
This is whereyou're going to grow
into the fullness of all thatJesus put in you.
And so if you'vecreated distance
from the people of God,I think first step
is close that gap.
And so and I'm not justtalking about going to church
(16:45):
on Sunday in a 2000 seatauditorium where no one's
going to see youand you're going
to hide out therethat's not reentering.
Nowhere in the Bibledoes it tell you
to go to church.
We're supposed to belongto a group of people.
And so move towards move towardsa men's group, move
towards a women'sgroup, move towards a smaller
(17:05):
Bible study setting.
Move towards the saints of God.
That would be first easy step.
All of this, I would say,needs to be baptized in prayer.
Lord, I want your freedom.
I'm lacking courage right now.
Please give me courage.
Give me and and then startmoving towards.
(17:26):
And then as you move towardsand you find, trustworthy men,
trustworthy women.
Then I would, I would begin toinvite them in,
and then I again,I don't recommend this route.
This route takes a lot longer.
And, you might get yourselfin, in the trap of.
(17:46):
Oh, well, I need to bereligious like they are.
So let me start being religious.
Like they are.
But if you get in a communitywhere there's
a recovery program,you get in a community
that's serious about walkingalongside people
who are strugglingand and being committed
to love them, well, if you canfind that space
(18:08):
now we've got the space,the container
in which we can confessand we can come
fully into the light.
And I want to stressthe word fully, because what
I have found in walking with menis what I was
alluding to earlier.
Like, there had some like nasty,gross, perverse stuff.
But that's notwhat they're confessing.
(18:29):
They're confessing.
Well, you know, I wasI look at some things
on InstagramI shouldn't look at.
Well great.
But that's not it's not reallywhat's going on.
So it's like apartial confession.
It might be somethingyou're doing that triggers
your move to the deeper,harder, grosser stuff.
So I think confession has to bewhatever is most shameful in you
(18:53):
that the thing you don't wantanyone to know, that's got to be
the confession.
And I thinkthe best route is once
you have found those peopleyou rip that Band-Aid off with,
those people that haveshown themselves
to be a safe container.
Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Staying on that sametheme, pastor.
(19:13):
You know, we talkwith a lot of churches,
some are doing very welldealing with this
and other hurts of people in, inthe church.
Many though are still are notmany still do not want to touch
these kinds of subject,whether it's pornography
or just other,traumas and struggles.
(19:33):
You know, as you are outtalking with so many pastors
around the country, you know,what's your sense of this one?
Is it getting better?
And two, what isyour encouragement
to pastors and churchesto step into this?
Much, much harderthan we are so far.
Yeah.
I, I think it's getting better.
At least from my.
(19:54):
I can't see evangelicalism,but I it feels to me like it's
getting better.
I what I'm seeing,you know, acts 29 has about 700
churches in it.
What I'm seeing,is that we are getting
that we do understandthat people,
this is a tough moment.
Like, I'm 51, so I'm not old.
(20:14):
Old, but I'm older.
Like when I was a kid,like my porn stuff.
When it waswhen I found my dad's
stash of magazines.
Right.
But the the guysthat we're dealing
with right now, I mean, thatunfettered access
to the internetas eight year olds
like the first exposureto pornography is happening
prepubescent.
(20:34):
And so now we've got this wholerewiring of brains.
We have this whole thethe difficulty of this moment
for people aroundsex and sexuality.
Man, you got to goback a long time to find it
this, this hard, this gross,this available maybe never
in the history of the world.
This available.
(20:55):
I read somewherethat the normal man
with an iPhonecan see more beautiful
naked women in an afternoonthan a king 400 years ago.
Could see in his lifetime. And.
And this is the bondagethat men and women
are getting stuck in.
And so there has to be,if we read the Gospels rightly,
(21:17):
if you're a pastor,read the Gospels.
What does Jesus do towardsthe woman caught in adultery?
What does Jesus do in Luke sevenwith the prostitute who came in
and was justweeping over his feet?
What does Jesus do?
With Zacchaeus,the tax collector?
The these were really accordingto their time
and maybe even our time.
These were deeply broken,perverse people.
(21:42):
And what did Jesus do?
Jesus didn't have hissharpest rebukes for them.
They loved,like the first sentence,
and I think it's Luke 15and the tax collectors
and sinnersdrew near to hear him.
Why?
Why are the twoand the Pharisees
and scribes grumbled, right?
Like, why are the religiousleaders grumbling
(22:04):
and the tax collectorsand sinners being drawn near?
Well, I brother sister,I would just encourage you,
if you're leading achurch, look out and go,
who's being drawn here?
Are the tax collectorsand sinners being drawn here,
or am I just drawing like,religious Somalians or like,
Sunday, the Sunday school?
Here's a oh, you smell that?
(22:25):
That's that's hymns.
Man, I love the hymns.
Like the the the churchis for the people of God.
Like, we don't buildour services
for the lost people.
We build our servicesfor the people of God.
But what's the messagefor the people of God?
Well, the messagefor the people of God
is still the gospel.
Like most of the gospelpresentations
(22:46):
in the New Testamentare actually given
to Christians.
They're not preachedto lost people.
It's like Christiansneed to be reminded
whoa whoa whoa whoa.
While you were at your worst,Christ died for you.
So why don't we have some gracefor people
who are at their worst?
And then I thinkyou have to build an environment
where it's okay to not be okay.
And I think you have to leadwith your own vulnerability.
(23:08):
That is amazing advice.
And I think it'sa fair assessment
of kind of where we are,as you know, a church,
the big C church.
I want to talk a little bitmore about the church,
just because, you know,you have such an impact and you,
you do work with so many pastorsand, you know, so many people,
what are some strategiesthat some of the pastors
and men's ministry leadersthat are listening could utilize
(23:31):
in their church to really helpfortify and build strong
men's ministries,women's ministries
where people feel safetalking about these issues.
What are some of the thingsthat you've done at the village
church and and just in your ownministry?
Yeah.
So I think the first thingyou have to do, is create
(23:53):
I've neversaid this phrase before.
It's certainly not ait's not our vernacular,
but maybe it would helpif you're listening like gospel
vulnerability.
And what I mean by that is inthose environments,
we want the Spirit'spower present.
We want the Word of God present,but we also want
to lead everything that likewhat we're here to do
(24:13):
is not hide, but be in the lightwherever we are.
In fact, I heard, Jamie Winshipsaid, I just thought
this was brilliant.
So reframed that,you know, confession is actually
just telling God the truth,that we tend to think
confession is always like,here's my sins.
Please forgive me for my sins,but actual, real confession.
(24:35):
Just telling God the truth.
And so if I think of, like,if I just go men's ministry
here, like,we have these fireside
chats and then we have these,these things called foxholes.
The idea of a foxhole is like,everything's
blowing up around you.
You're not sure where to go.
You're not surewhere to do this.
You just divein this foxhole, and.
And nobody lives in a foxhole.
(24:55):
Nobody wants to stayin a foxhole.
You're just survivingin a foxhole, and.
And, like, let me give youan example.
If you go to a foxhole,there's going to be, four,
four, questions that get askedin that foxhole.
And the man who's leading itis going to lead
with vulnerability.
I think they all start withis the first.
(25:15):
It's going to be home.
Tell me about how you grew up.
And now whoever's leading it,they're going to
lead vulnerably.
They're not going be like,my parents were great.
You know, they did the bestthey could.
They're going to talk about me.
And I picked up on this.
I, this wasn't there.
This wasn't.
And then we're goingto move to a hurt like, what's
a significant hurtthat would help
(25:36):
us understand you?
Like, we want to understand you.
We want to know you.
What's a hurt in your lifethat that shaped you?
Okay.
What's a highlightthat shaped you?
If we're going to understandwho you are, give me your.
The biggest winthat when I look at you
and I get to know you, I'm like,I know where that came from.
That victory he gotwhen he was a sophomore
in college or last weekor whatever.
(25:58):
And then like,tell us about a hero
in your life.
Why was he a hero or a hero?
And so we found, like,even in something like a foxhole
where you put in 4or 5 guys together, haven't met,
don't know each other.
Walking throughthose four questions like write
home, hurt, highlight, hero.
Now we've got abetter sense of you
(26:18):
and you've come inbecause it got modeled to you.
Not with just like, the answeryour kid gives you
when you ask, hey,how was your day? Good.
That this is more meant to go.
Let me let me pull out of yousome things that help
you understand the freedomthat comes from being more known
than just a bunch of dudessitting around talking about
(26:40):
hunting, golf,or why Dak Prescott
can't throw a backshoulder fade.
Absolutely.
Especially in that last one.
No.
Detroit fan here.
Pastor Matt, we I would lovejust to continue this all day
long. It loveI love your answers and
and just the the depth and,grace of of what you're
(27:02):
talking about.
But we're getting tothe end here.
Would love tolet our listeners know.
How do they find outmore information about you,
your ministry, your books?
If they're looking for that,where would they go?
Well, I mean, I thinkI'm everywhere.
Everyone else is.
I mean, certainlyI have a YouTube
channel that hosts, my, podcast,The Overcomers, which is just me
(27:24):
interviewing peoplethat have been through
difficult things and,they've clung
to the Lord from itor through it,
and they're kind ofon the other side.
I never interview anybodythat's like 20 years
to the other side.
I want somebody that's two yearsto the other side.
I just want an honest,gritty conversation,
about the dark night of the souland the struggle.
(27:46):
So they can findthat on my YouTube
channel, Pastor Matt Chandler.
They can find that on Spotify.
They can findthat on iTunes. Really?
Wherever that is.
Sermons live. There.
Yeah.
Books are whereveryou can buy a book,
you can get them on Amazon.
You can get them, really atBarnes and Noble, you can
you can find my books out therejust about everywhere.
(28:07):
I'm on Instagram,not on Twitter.
Probably. Yeah.
I'm not a TikTok guy.
I hear that's where everybodyis these days.
But 51 breaking into TikTokfeels I'm not a good dancer, so.
It's probably wise to just steerclear of TikTok.
I've dabbled over therea few times, and I I'm
definitely aged out.
I think there's a cap.
(28:28):
They don't even scroll.
They won't even scrollto 74 where I.
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
Well, as webring today's episode
to a close, Pastor Matt,would you leave our listeners
with just a message of hopeand encouragement
and maybe a scripturethat they should refer
to in those times of struggleor just when they're
feeling low?
Would you mind?
(28:50):
Yeah.
The first thingI would remind you is
you are in a traditionwith thousands
of years of victory.
You are not goingto be the one person
unless you give up.
You're not going to bethe one person,
that Christ changeshis mind about.
And so my my appeal to youis keep going.
(29:12):
The enemy wants you to quit.
He wants you to give up.
He wants to sow lies.
That this is just your life.
And I want to remind youthat the the story of scripture,
and our historyas the Christian faith,
it is that people who have gonefarther than you,
have been redeemed,have been restored
(29:35):
and have been usedprofoundly by God
despite their past, maybe evenbecause of their past.
That would be my encouragement.
Don't give up.
Don't lose heart.
And then, man,I just want to keep bringing you
back to this.
My own personal experienceis that, my own besetting sins,
my own strugglesfrom my own family
(29:55):
of origin stuffand my own flesh,
really were driven out.
Not with my great discipline.
Although I'm.
I'm a fairly disciplined man.
But because I have tendedto the fire of my soul
when it comes to my affectionsfor Jesus.
Like a little game I often play,probably do it twice a year.
(30:16):
What's stirring my affectionsfor Jesus Christ right now?
What's robbing meof those affections?
And what's funny is thatrobbing list now 33 years
of the following him,that there's hardly
anything on that listthat's explicitly sinful.
It's just morally neutral,lesser loves.
And so what it would look,what would it look like
for you to take Psalm 27 for,David saying,
(30:39):
the one thing I'm afterand to order your life around
stirring and cultivatingan affection for Jesus
that then makes thoselesser loves not as powerful
because the greater affectionhas driven them out.
That would be my encouragementto anyone listening.
Who's in it right now?
Amen.
Amen.
(30:59):
Well, Pastor Matt,thank you so much
for the word today.
And thank you for your ministry.
God bless them.
Oh, thank you guys.
Yeah.
Into our listeners.
Thanks again for watching.
Please share.
And like this.
Will put some of the linksin the show notes today.
But again look for thenext episode
of the Covenant Eyes podcast.
Take care and God bless.
(31:23):
You.
Hey everybody, welcome backto the Covenant Eyes
podcast Karen here.
So glad to have you joining me.
Rob is back.
Rob, how are you?
I'm doing good, Karen.
Thanks.
Good.
It's been a minutesince we've recorded a podcast.
Summer is Flying by.
Well, Matt, let us let usintroduce you.
Most people know you,but our guest today,
(00:27):
if you don't know,is Pastor Matt Chandler.
Pastor Matt is leadpastor at the village
church, in Texas.
Welcome to the covenantEyes podcast.
Thanks for joining us.
Could you just tell usa little bit about yourself?
Yeah. I, been at the villagechurch as the lead pastor
for to be 23 years,this December.
(00:51):
And so that that's beenkind of calling life, also super
involved in churchplanning around the world
through the 29 ChurchPlanning Network.
Was presidentfor a long time. Now.
I'm just executivechairman of the board.
So fancy title that just saysI work closely
with the now president.
(01:11):
Really, though, man, my wifeLauren is just deep.
Well, prophetic.
Beautiful, godly.
What a whata gift of a partnership
and gospel work.
She's been.
I've got three kids.
They're all like,they're they're getting older
and older as they do.
I've got my oldest is nowmarried and lives
(01:32):
about 12 minutes from us.
My, 19 year old is finishing upschool.
He's in trade school.
He'll finish in September.
He's still living at home.
And then he'll look to,transition out.
And then our baby,just got her driver's
license, and,she's about to start her
junior year of high school,and so that that that's kind of,
me, I have a deep heart,for men and women
(01:56):
to know and practice,the truth of the gospel.
To see it working out,in their day in, day out
activities toto burn for the presence
and power of God in their lives.
And that that's kind of marked,my 30 year run in ministry now,
trying to talk about thatand preach to that
(02:17):
and organize around thatand pray for that.
And, yeah,that that's kind of me.
Good. Well, great.
Well thank you.
And that really leads us intowhat we really want to talk
about today.
As you know, we at CovenantEyes, every day,
day in and day out, we dealwith so many people
who are struggling, strugglingwith the sin of pornography
(02:39):
and other things.
And for so many that struggleis ongoing.
It's a long, long strugglefor so many people
and would love to talk.
Have you talk todaya little bit about
how do we encouragesomebody in their faith
that is really going throughan overwhelming
long struggle like thisand often doubting their faith?
I mean, many of these areprofessing Christians, but yet
(03:02):
they're still struggling.
So I want to start outjust to kind of address
that issue a little bitfor all these people
who are strugglingfor so long but
really struggling, how does thisaffect my faith?
Yeah, I, I think that I don'tthink, the Bible's fairly clear,
that, we are going to strugglewith our faith,
(03:26):
throughout our lives.
In fact, in a lot of peoplewho give up on the fight,
have lost sight.
That's the wayI kind of try to teach,
the village, sanctificationor how we become made more
and more like.
Jesus.
It's not up into the right.
Like nobody in the history ofChristianity has had an up
(03:47):
and to the right experience.
It really is a series.
I like to teach itwith the image of like a
horizontal coil,laid in front of you,
that every high and every lowand every battle
and every struggleis still moving.
You forward towardsbecoming like Jesus.
And so that's the, for me,the encouragement
(04:09):
that I want to give anybodyis just keep going,
keep getting backup, keep moving towards Jesus.
And really, the, the victory,that I've seen people walk in,
is a mixture ofthe explosive power
of new affection, and, and then,some discipline around,
(04:33):
what windows and doors are open.
And so what I mean by that,is real true
change, transformation,that I've seen in the lives
of Christians,whether it's pornography
or drugs and alcoholor perfectionism
and people pleasing,which can create
just as much damage, in a lifeand in a family,
(04:56):
really has to do primarily with,I want to orient my life
around an everincreasing affection for Jesus.
And so when I think of, that,like I've often said,
like the kind of bannerover my life and my
33 years of followingJesus is found in Psalm
(05:16):
27 verse four, where David saysone thing I ask
and all that I seekis that I might dwell
in the house of the Lordall the days of my life, to gaze
upon the beauty of the Lord,and to seek him in his temple.
And so if you're struggling withthe besetting set,
I think we've got toask some questions.
Is this, like, are you stumblingor are you in bondage?
(05:42):
And regardlessof what the answer is,
I think if it's bondage,then we've got
some significant workto do below the surface.
But I think what drives outlesser loves
is not just disciplineand software that block stuff
and good accountability,but a growing affection,
(06:03):
that drives outthe lesser affection.
And I think this is the problemsome people have when it comes
to fighting against the flesh,is they just try to do it
with disciplineand accountability,
but then you end up honestly,experientially,
you become the guythat every time or gal
that every time you'rein a small group, you're talking
about pornography, and then youstart going, they're so tired
(06:26):
of hearing this, and youstart withdrawing
from that confession.
And those are the men and womenthat end up giving up.
And I don't want you to give up.
And so I'm not sayingthose things are important.
I think accountabilityis super important.
I think coveted eyes andand software like that is
super important.
But if you're neglectingand this is what shame does,
this is a nowthis is the devil's
(06:47):
playground right here.
God, I hate that loser.
But he what he wants to dois keep you away from the Lord.
Because the moreyou go to the Lord,
the more your affections for himare going to grow, and the more
your affectionsfor Jesus, or hot
the lesser loves,the lesser affections
lose a lot of powerthat's out there.
That's a long answerto a short question.
I love that, and that was great.
(07:08):
I think, you know, thatkind of leads us
to talk a little bit about whatScripture teach us, teaches us
about the connectionbetween trials and strengthening
our faith.
Because oftentimes, you know,we can see trials and setbacks
as us failing.
And, you know, it's, you know,God doesn't love me.
Or we can thinkall sorts of things.
(07:28):
And it's like, actually,in those trials, God is there.
So let's talka little bit about that
and how he gives us strengthand how he is our strength
in those times.
So, I mean, you can either do itvia narrative.
And what I mean by narrative isI like to highlight all the time
at the villagethat no one in the Bible
could get hiredat the village church, just our
(07:51):
background checks going to.
I mean, it's going to flagmurder and violence
and sexual perversion and like,you can't other than Jesus
and maybe Daniel, you got nobodylike Moses in
getting hired here.
I mean, you have to go.
Hey, tell me about that guyyou murdered
when you in your 20s.
And I heard youfreaked out at work
the other day.
Started smashing stuffwith your staff.
(08:13):
Like we're not letting him runKids Village,
I can tell you that right now.
Or David, a man afterGod's own heart.
The the grimyness of the Bible exists
to give you confidencethat there's space
for you, right?
That that's that'swhy the book's so grimy.
That's why God's alwaysusing broken, fallible people.
(08:34):
Because that's all there is.
And so you're actually even,statistically speaking,
you're not alone in this fight.
We're lining up really wellwith a lot of the people
in the Bible who are profoundlyand powerfully used by God.
So you could go about itkind of with the narrative
of Scripture.
Pick a guy, pick a guy,you pick Jeremiah,
you can pick Paul,you can pick Moses,
(08:55):
you can pick Noah.
You I mean, pick a God.
You can't pick Jesus or Daniel.
But anybody else in the book,deep, terrible flaws
that would more than likelykeep them from being hired
by any church that doesa good background check on
their employees.
So that's one wayto approach it.
The second way is repeatedlyin Pauline epistles and in other
(09:16):
parts of the Bible.
They are clearthat struggle creates
a kind of resilienceand perseverance,
if you will endure till the end.
And that's the bigkind of press.
Keep getting up.
Jesus knew what he wasbuying on the cross look like.
(09:37):
He's not like looking at you.
Now I'm going, oh, I so regretdying for this bump
since he actually knewyou were a bum, which is why
he went to the cross.
I mean, that's the workspacerighteousness stuff
that'll reallyget me frustrated.
Like the righteous requirementsof the law cannot save anyone.
(09:59):
Only Jesus can.
Which is why, then,if you're coming off
the worst pornbender of your life,
I'm telling you,get into the presence
of Jesus, seek forgiveness,loop back into your community.
Stop creating distancebetween you and the Lord
because the Lord doesn'twant the distance.
He is producing somethingin this struggle,
(10:22):
in this wrestle that the fruit,when all said and done is,
is really beyondyour imagination right
now, on the bottom of that coil,remember, like coil up and down
every high and low,moving us towards him.
Right. So.
So you could do it.
Narrow table.
You could do James one.
You could do Philippians three.
There are all sorts of textthat go, no, no, no, expect
(10:44):
struggle, struggle.
Well don't give up.
Endure. Yeah.
So true, so true.
Good verses.
You mentionedshame earlier and we,
we see that so often.
Shame really justit keeps people in silence.
So often they're not confessing.
They're not engaging in talkingwith the community with a body
(11:07):
and growing their, you know,talk a little bit about that
role of confession in James 516,the confession and the community
of growing our faithtogether through that and why
that's so important.
Yet no one and I mean no one,I would say it like this.
There are no Jason Bournesin the kingdom of God.
(11:28):
There's no one manarmy that can take on
all the works of the enemy,and it just doesn't exist.
And so the good gift ofGod's grace,
is the people of God.
I wish I was get if I'm being,If I'm being honest.
Rob, sometimes I get nervousabout this question
(11:49):
in particular,because I know there's
some very unhealthy,legalistic churches
where someone could dowhat the Bible said
and not be handledwith the grace and mercy
that Christ wouldhave us handle them.
And so, I, I think the Bibleis clear and church
history is clear,that confession is a good gift
(12:11):
of God's grace to move us outof darkness and into the light.
And if you're ina healthy church,
confession is met with graceand a moving towards,
like I'll oftensay at the village,
you will not confessanything here
that makes anyone gasplike we've just been
(12:32):
in this too long.
I mean, we had a guy,OD'd in one of our bathrooms
with a needle in his arm.
I mean, we are we?
The church should alwaysbe a bit grimy.
If there's any new birth there.
So any new life?
If you're reallyin the mission of God
hurting, desperate people aregoing to be there and hurting
desperate people are hurtingand desperate.
(12:53):
But confession drags darknessinto the light.
And the promise,we read in the first five verses
of the Gospel of John,I think it is verse five
that the light has shownin the darkness,
and the darknesshas not overcome it.
So when you confessand on confession, I mean, like,
(13:13):
confess it, and and let it be asugly as it is.
And so what, I mean by that islike a real,
true, broken hearted,repentant confession
might not just be, oh, I've beenlooking at porn.
It might includethe type of porn wherever
that root of shame is,that's what you want
(13:34):
to bring out into confession,whatever the lie is that
if anybody knewthat I was looking at this type
of pornography, then, man,there would be no grace for me.
That's the confession.
That's when you get the lightshining in the darkness,
not the ambiguous.
Really strugglingwith lust this week
that that's not going to do it.
It's not ugly enough.
(13:55):
It's not dark enough.
It's not the root.
But the scriptures call usto the ongoing
ethic of confession.
Confession is something we doto become Christians.
It's a weapon we use to stayin the light and feel free,
to approachthe God of all creation
with no secrets.
(14:16):
Not that we wouldhave any, anyway,
but we're confessing to God.
We're confessing to others.
Others become themanifest presence of God to us.
They weep with us,they move towards us,
and in they're movingtowards us.
We're remindedthat God Himself moves
towards us in our sinand brokenness.
The longer you hold it in,the longer you're quiet.
(14:39):
The longer it's a secret,the more powerful it becomes,
and the less likely you areto actually consecrate yourself
and confess those things.
I was talking toyoung adults last night,
and I was justpleading with them,
to kill any babylions in their lives
before those lionsbecome full grown.
Like it'snever going to be easier
(15:00):
than it is right now at 22,come into the light.
And this is therole of confession.
It moves us out of darknessand into the light.
That is so good.
And there's something so freeingwhen we confess and we share
those burdens with one another.
I mean, it'ssuch a relief to know
that we have communityin our churches,
that we can do thatand feel that,
(15:21):
and God can relieve that on our,you know, relieve that burden.
I want to talka little bit about, you know,
there's a lot of,people that we work
with at Covenant Eyeswho come into Covenant Eyes.
They want to find freedom.
They're seeking afterGod's heart.
They are alone, though,because porn has
pulled them awayfrom their family
(15:41):
or their friends,and it's really
caused a lot of havoc.
And so they don't have anyoneto walk alongside them.
They maybe don'tfeel comfortable confessing yet.
Which, you know, there's a callto do that,
but how do we help them with,you know, habits and things?
How do we exercise thatmuscle of being vulnerable
and confessing our sins?
(16:02):
Like, what are some pointersand tips for people
that are just scared?
Yeah.
So there's there'stwo ways to go about it.
The first I would notrecommend, but it is a way
the first would be I, I justthink the Church of Jesus
Christ is a good gift,for the people of God.
Remember, even the writerof Hebrews like, don't neglect
(16:24):
this, don't neglect this.
Like, this is your safe spot.
This is where you're going to bereminded of the gospel.
This is where you'regoing to find grace.
This is whereyou're going to grow
into the fullness of all thatJesus put in you.
And so if you'vecreated distance
from the people of God,I think first step
is close that gap.
And so and I'm not justtalking about going to church
(16:45):
on Sunday in a 2000 seatauditorium where no one's
going to see youand you're going
to hide out therethat's not reentering.
Nowhere in the Bibledoes it tell you
to go to church.
We're supposed to belongto a group of people.
And so move towards move towardsa men's group, move
towards a women'sgroup, move towards a smaller
(17:05):
Bible study setting.
Move towards the saints of God.
That would be first easy step.
All of this, I would say,needs to be baptized in prayer.
Lord, I want your freedom.
I'm lacking courage right now.
Please give me courage.
Give me and and then startmoving towards.
(17:26):
And then as you move towardsand you find, trustworthy men,
trustworthy women.
Then I would, I would begin toinvite them in,
and then I again,I don't recommend this route.
This route takes a lot longer.
And, you might get yourselfin, in the trap of.
(17:46):
Oh, well, I need to bereligious like they are.
So let me start being religious.
Like they are.
But if you get in a communitywhere there's
a recovery program,you get in a community
that's serious about walkingalongside people
who are strugglingand and being committed
to love them, well, if you canfind that space
(18:08):
now we've got the space,the container
in which we can confessand we can come
fully into the light.
And I want to stressthe word fully, because what
I have found in walking with menis what I was
alluding to earlier.
Like, there had some like nasty,gross, perverse stuff.
But that's notwhat they're confessing.
(18:29):
They're confessing.
Well, you know, I wasI look at some things
on InstagramI shouldn't look at.
Well great.
But that's not it's not reallywhat's going on.
So it's like apartial confession.
It might be somethingyou're doing that triggers
your move to the deeper,harder, grosser stuff.
So I think confession has to bewhatever is most shameful in you
(18:53):
that the thing you don't wantanyone to know, that's got to be
the confession.
And I thinkthe best route is once
you have found those peopleyou rip that Band-Aid off with,
those people that haveshown themselves
to be a safe container.
Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Staying on that sametheme, pastor.
(19:13):
You know, we talkwith a lot of churches,
some are doing very welldealing with this
and other hurts of people in, inthe church.
Many though are still are notmany still do not want to touch
these kinds of subject,whether it's pornography
or just other,traumas and struggles.
(19:33):
You know, as you are outtalking with so many pastors
around the country, you know,what's your sense of this one?
Is it getting better?
And two, what isyour encouragement
to pastors and churchesto step into this?
Much, much harderthan we are so far.
Yeah.
I, I think it's getting better.
At least from my.
(19:54):
I can't see evangelicalism,but I it feels to me like it's
getting better.
I what I'm seeing,you know, acts 29 has about 700
churches in it.
What I'm seeing,is that we are getting
that we do understandthat people,
this is a tough moment.
Like, I'm 51, so I'm not old.
(20:14):
Old, but I'm older.
Like when I was a kid,like my porn stuff.
When it waswhen I found my dad's
stash of magazines.
Right.
But the the guysthat we're dealing
with right now, I mean, thatunfettered access
to the internetas eight year olds
like the first exposureto pornography is happening
prepubescent.
(20:34):
And so now we've got this wholerewiring of brains.
We have this whole thethe difficulty of this moment
for people aroundsex and sexuality.
Man, you got to goback a long time to find it
this, this hard, this gross,this available maybe never
in the history of the world.
This available.
(20:55):
I read somewherethat the normal man
with an iPhonecan see more beautiful
naked women in an afternoonthan a king 400 years ago.
Could see in his lifetime. And.
And this is the bondagethat men and women
are getting stuck in.
And so there has to be,if we read the Gospels rightly,
(21:17):
if you're a pastor,read the Gospels.
What does Jesus do towardsthe woman caught in adultery?
What does Jesus do in Luke sevenwith the prostitute who came in
and was justweeping over his feet?
What does Jesus do?
With Zacchaeus,the tax collector?
The these were really accordingto their time
and maybe even our time.
These were deeply broken,perverse people.
(21:42):
And what did Jesus do?
Jesus didn't have hissharpest rebukes for them.
They loved,like the first sentence,
and I think it's Luke 15and the tax collectors
and sinnersdrew near to hear him.
Why?
Why are the twoand the Pharisees
and scribes grumbled, right?
Like, why are the religiousleaders grumbling
(22:04):
and the tax collectorsand sinners being drawn near?
Well, I brother sister,I would just encourage you,
if you're leading achurch, look out and go,
who's being drawn here?
Are the tax collectorsand sinners being drawn here,
or am I just drawing like,religious Somalians or like,
Sunday, the Sunday school?
Here's a oh, you smell that?
(22:25):
That's that's hymns.
Man, I love the hymns.
Like the the the churchis for the people of God.
Like, we don't buildour services
for the lost people.
We build our servicesfor the people of God.
But what's the messagefor the people of God?
Well, the messagefor the people of God
is still the gospel.
Like most of the gospelpresentations
(22:46):
in the New Testamentare actually given
to Christians.
They're not preachedto lost people.
It's like Christiansneed to be reminded
whoa whoa whoa whoa.
While you were at your worst,Christ died for you.
So why don't we have some gracefor people
who are at their worst?
And then I thinkyou have to build an environment
where it's okay to not be okay.
And I think you have to leadwith your own vulnerability.
(23:08):
That is amazing advice.
And I think it'sa fair assessment
of kind of where we are,as you know, a church,
the big C church.
I want to talk a little bitmore about the church,
just because, you know,you have such an impact and you,
you do work with so many pastorsand, you know, so many people,
what are some strategiesthat some of the pastors
and men's ministry leadersthat are listening could utilize
(23:31):
in their church to really helpfortify and build strong
men's ministries,women's ministries
where people feel safetalking about these issues.
What are some of the thingsthat you've done at the village
church and and just in your ownministry?
Yeah.
So I think the first thingyou have to do, is create
(23:53):
I've neversaid this phrase before.
It's certainly not ait's not our vernacular,
but maybe it would helpif you're listening like gospel
vulnerability.
And what I mean by that is inthose environments,
we want the Spirit'spower present.
We want the Word of God present,but we also want
to lead everything that likewhat we're here to do
(24:13):
is not hide, but be in the lightwherever we are.
In fact, I heard, Jamie Winshipsaid, I just thought
this was brilliant.
So reframed that,you know, confession is actually
just telling God the truth,that we tend to think
confession is always like,here's my sins.
Please forgive me for my sins,but actual, real confession.
(24:35):
Just telling God the truth.
And so if I think of, like,if I just go men's ministry
here, like,we have these fireside
chats and then we have these,these things called foxholes.
The idea of a foxhole is like,everything's
blowing up around you.
You're not sure where to go.
You're not surewhere to do this.
You just divein this foxhole, and.
And nobody lives in a foxhole.
(24:55):
Nobody wants to stayin a foxhole.
You're just survivingin a foxhole, and.
And, like, let me give youan example.
If you go to a foxhole,there's going to be, four,
four, questions that get askedin that foxhole.
And the man who's leading itis going to lead
with vulnerability.
I think they all start withis the first.
(25:15):
It's going to be home.
Tell me about how you grew up.
And now whoever's leading it,they're going to
lead vulnerably.
They're not going be like,my parents were great.
You know, they did the bestthey could.
They're going to talk about me.
And I picked up on this.
I, this wasn't there.
This wasn't.
And then we're goingto move to a hurt like, what's
a significant hurtthat would help
(25:36):
us understand you?
Like, we want to understand you.
We want to know you.
What's a hurt in your lifethat that shaped you?
Okay.
What's a highlightthat shaped you?
If we're going to understandwho you are, give me your.
The biggest winthat when I look at you
and I get to know you, I'm like,I know where that came from.
That victory he gotwhen he was a sophomore
in college or last weekor whatever.
(25:58):
And then like,tell us about a hero
in your life.
Why was he a hero or a hero?
And so we found, like,even in something like a foxhole
where you put in 4or 5 guys together, haven't met,
don't know each other.
Walking throughthose four questions like write
home, hurt, highlight, hero.
Now we've got abetter sense of you
(26:18):
and you've come inbecause it got modeled to you.
Not with just like, the answeryour kid gives you
when you ask, hey,how was your day? Good.
That this is more meant to go.
Let me let me pull out of yousome things that help
you understand the freedomthat comes from being more known
than just a bunch of dudessitting around talking about
(26:40):
hunting, golf,or why Dak Prescott
can't throw a backshoulder fade.
Absolutely.
Especially in that last one.
No.
Detroit fan here.
Pastor Matt, we I would lovejust to continue this all day
long. It loveI love your answers and
and just the the depth and,grace of of what you're
(27:02):
talking about.
But we're getting tothe end here.
Would love tolet our listeners know.
How do they find outmore information about you,
your ministry, your books?
If they're looking for that,where would they go?
Well, I mean, I thinkI'm everywhere.
Everyone else is.
I mean, certainlyI have a YouTube
channel that hosts, my, podcast,The Overcomers, which is just me
(27:24):
interviewing peoplethat have been through
difficult things and,they've clung
to the Lord from itor through it,
and they're kind ofon the other side.
I never interview anybodythat's like 20 years
to the other side.
I want somebody that's two yearsto the other side.
I just want an honest,gritty conversation,
about the dark night of the souland the struggle.
(27:46):
So they can findthat on my YouTube
channel, Pastor Matt Chandler.
They can find that on Spotify.
They can findthat on iTunes. Really?
Wherever that is.
Sermons live. There.
Yeah.
Books are whereveryou can buy a book,
you can get them on Amazon.
You can get them, really atBarnes and Noble, you can
you can find my books out therejust about everywhere.
(28:07):
I'm on Instagram,not on Twitter.
Probably. Yeah.
I'm not a TikTok guy.
I hear that's where everybodyis these days.
But 51 breaking into TikTokfeels I'm not a good dancer, so.
It's probably wise to just steerclear of TikTok.
I've dabbled over therea few times, and I I'm
definitely aged out.
I think there's a cap.
(28:28):
They don't even scroll.
They won't even scrollto 74 where I.
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
Well, as webring today's episode
to a close, Pastor Matt,would you leave our listeners
with just a message of hopeand encouragement
and maybe a scripturethat they should refer
to in those times of struggleor just when they're
feeling low?
Would you mind?
(28:50):
Yeah.
The first thingI would remind you is
you are in a traditionwith thousands
of years of victory.
You are not goingto be the one person
unless you give up.
You're not going to bethe one person,
that Christ changeshis mind about.
And so my my appeal to youis keep going.
(29:12):
The enemy wants you to quit.
He wants you to give up.
He wants to sow lies.
That this is just your life.
And I want to remind youthat the the story of scripture,
and our historyas the Christian faith,
it is that people who have gonefarther than you,
have been redeemed,have been restored
(29:35):
and have been usedprofoundly by God
despite their past, maybe evenbecause of their past.
That would be my encouragement.
Don't give up.
Don't lose heart.
And then, man,I just want to keep bringing you
back to this.
My own personal experienceis that, my own besetting sins,
my own strugglesfrom my own family
(29:55):
of origin stuffand my own flesh,
really were driven out.
Not with my great discipline.
Although I'm.
I'm a fairly disciplined man.
But because I have tendedto the fire of my soul
when it comes to my affectionsfor Jesus.
Like a little game I often play,probably do it twice a year.
(30:16):
What's stirring my affectionsfor Jesus Christ right now?
What's robbing meof those affections?
And what's funny is thatrobbing list now 33 years
of the following him,that there's hardly
anything on that listthat's explicitly sinful.
It's just morally neutral,lesser loves.
And so what it would look,what would it look like
for you to take Psalm 27 for,David saying,
(30:39):
the one thing I'm afterand to order your life around
stirring and cultivatingan affection for Jesus
that then makes thoselesser loves not as powerful
because the greater affectionhas driven them out.
That would be my encouragementto anyone listening.
Who's in it right now?
Amen.
Amen.
(30:59):
Well, Pastor Matt,thank you so much
for the word today.
And thank you for your ministry.
God bless them.
Oh, thank you guys.
Yeah.
Into our listeners.
Thanks again for watching.
Please share.
And like this.
Will put some of the linksin the show notes today.
But again look for thenext episode
of the Covenant Eyes podcast.
Take care and God bless.
(31:23):
You.
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