March 5, 2025 • 22 mins
Human trafficking is a pervasive issue in the United States, often hidden in plain sight.
On this episode of The Covenant Eyes Podcast, we speak with Jeanne Allert, PhD, founder and chief executive of the Institute for Survivor Care, about the realities of trafficking, how it differs across communities, and the vital role of healing and restoration for survivors.
Jeanne shares her personal journey from a successful career in internet consulting to establishing one of the first long-term restorative care programs in the Mid-Atlantic for victims of domestic sex trafficking. We discuss the misconceptions surrounding trafficking, the connection between pornography and exploitation, and the crucial steps individuals and communities can take to prevent trafficking and support survivors.
Learn about the Institute for Survivor Care's unique, survivor-informed healing process and how you can get involved in this critical fight. Join us for this important conversation and discover how you can make a difference.
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
01:18 The Mission of the Institute for Survivor Care
03:20 The Scope of Human Trafficking in the US
04:37 The Connection Between Pornography and Trafficking
06:15 Common Misconceptions About Trafficking
07:58 Vulnerability and Exploitation
08:22 The Healing Process for Survivors
12:55 The Importance of Community Support
15:35 How Churches and Individuals Can Prevent Trafficking and Support Survivors
17:17 The Economic Temptation of Exploitation
17:36 Talking to Children About Trafficking
17:58 The Importance of Male Role Models
19:40 Connecting with the Institute for Survivor Care and Upcoming Conference
21:47 Closing Remarks
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Episode Transcript
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(00:06):
Hey, everybody, welcome backto The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
We're so glad to have youjoining us again.
Make sure that you likeand subscribe to the podcast
so that we can get the word outabout great organizations
like the one we'reabout to talk to today.
We have the founder and chiefexecutive for the Institute
for Survivor Care.
We have, Jeanne Allert.
(00:28):
I'm so sorry.
It's fine.
Yeah.
No, she is a PhD,and she actually was convicted
to leave the trappingsof a lucrative career
as an internet consultantto establish
one of the very first longterm restorative care programs
in the Mid-Atlanticfor victims of domestic
sex trafficking.
(00:48):
We are so excitedto have you on the show today,
and this is a topicthat must be talked about.
So we justwe're just so grateful
that you had time tocome on the show and share
all of the thingsthat you guys are doing
and really just diveinto the topic of trafficking,
because oftentimeswe think of it as an issue
that over across the seas,but it actually
(01:08):
is happening herein the United States.
So I'm really excitedto talk to you more about that
and what we can do to helpstop that trafficking.
Great. Let's go.
Awesome.
Well, share with usa little bit about the mission
of your organization.
And, just I guesshow you started it or.
Yeah, it's importantto go back to Genesis right?
(01:30):
Our particular Genesis was one,like you mentioned,
I was in corporate lifeand, had an encounter
with a womanon the streets of Baltimore
who was being,trafficked and drug addicted
and having a conversationwith her 1 to 1, face to face,
getting a chance to,be exposed to
(01:51):
what her life was likewas transformative for me.
It made me so angry.
I couldn't believe thiswas happening in America.
And, And that instilled in mewhat I call my holy rage
that said, you know,I have to do something.
So I ended up selling my companyand selling my home
and buying a house and startinga restorative care program
(02:14):
in, Baltimore, Washington area.
Not having a cluewhat I was doing,
and ran that programserving juveniles
and adult survivorsfor about 13 years.
During that time,we began to realize
what was happeningacross the United States
and the gaps in services.
So we made a really difficultpivot to becoming the Institute
for Survivor Care,which now helps to raise up
(02:37):
future ministries, train peopleto enter into this work,
tool them upwith what they need,
not only training, but specific,you know, tools,
technologies, etc.
so that we can serve survivorswith excellence.
So we went fromdoing to teaching.
I love that that is great.
And that's such a discipleshipmodel right there.
(02:57):
Really. It's great.
So talk to mea little bit about, you know,
I think a lot of peopleare a little deceived
by how big this problemreally is.
I think they often don't thinkthat it's happening here.
And if they do that,it's something
just in the inner citiesand it's very sketchy,
but we don't know about it.
I would like to know,just from your perspective,
how invasive is thisproblem in the United States?
(03:20):
Well, we knowhave incidences of trafficking
in every state in the Union.
And so it isn'tas if it is unique
to particular geographies.
There can tendto be a clustering
wherever there is affluenceand poverty close together,
because that's an exploitof opportunity,
to take advantageof another population.
(03:41):
And oftentimesthe tracking of the, let's say,
arteries of exploitationfollow the money.
And so you might really look at,for example, the West Coast,
the East Coast,major urban areas,
but it's important to understandand that we can exploit
anybody anywhere.
And that can happenequally in rural areas.
(04:04):
What I think is important,what Hollywood doesn't do for us
very well, is give us a senseof how it looks different
in differentsocioeconomic classes
and different culturesin different parts
of the country.
You know,we might see, for example,
more labor trafficking in theagrarian states.
We might see more, sex tourismin some of the more
(04:27):
highly touristycities of America.
So it takes on a different,shape and form,
in different areas.
Okay. That makes sense.
So, you know, the workthat we do at
covenant is we're very in tunewith pornography is contribution
to this industryand how it really fuels that.
Can you talk a little bitabout how it does
(04:49):
contribute to that demandfor human trafficking
and exploitation?
Yeah.
You know, probablybest, said by a, law enforcement
investigator in Marylandwhere we, were for that
13 years period of time.
And he said that he hasn'thad a single case of trafficking
where there wasn'tthe presence of pornography
in the home of the exploiter.
(05:11):
And we have certainly heardfrom a couple
of hundred of women and girlswho have been exploited,
that pornography is oftenused as a tool
of indoctrination,desensitization,
sometimes instruction,you know, you'll watch this
and you'll do that.
We've heard about thatin a familial
trafficking situationwhere parents are,
(05:32):
exploiting their own children,that the children often
learn adult behaviors,if you want to put it that way,
through pornographic material.
So they are keenly interwoven.
And I don't know that a casecould be made
that you could extricate themand said, here's here's one bad
behavior over here,because they really are
(05:52):
dependent upon each other.
But that is not to suggestthat somebody who
consumes pornographyis necessarily
going to buy someone for sex.
But it's a pathway.
It's definitely a pathway.
That's a good point.
What are some of thebiggest misconceptions
floating aroundabout trafficking
(06:12):
and who is affected by it.
Well I'd say onby virtue of scale the bigger
misconceptions are movieslike Sound of Freedom
and Taken and things like thatthat, that paint this, epic hero
narrative of some lone strangergoing after the system
and rescuing childrenall on his own.
(06:36):
That's not helpful.
And it's not accurate.
The fact that it's transnationalonly, is a misconception
because as we'veestablished, it's right here
in the United Statesand even small communities,
the fact that it always involvessome big organized crime
or transnational,activity, because, again,
(06:57):
it can be just, a momwho has a drug addiction
and she's selling access toor her daughter or her son,
for the purposesof supporting that habit.
And, that's somethingspecifically familial
that we did a lengthy studyon and found that it's somewhere
between a quarterto a half of child
trafficking in America is atthe hands of a family member.
(07:20):
So it, it not only takesdifferent forms,
but it sometimes takes the shapethat we don't want
to think about.
We we we don't want to dealwith that. Right.
We wince at the,at the very heartbreak of that.
But those are the realities,the realities are that
people are vulnerablein a variety of ways.
They can be vulnerableby economics.
(07:41):
It can be compromisedbecause of substance abuse.
It can be, in many ways,relational, compromised
children in foster care,runaway kids and those
that are not socially connectedand protected
are highly vulnerableto being exploited.
Let's let's kind of pivot towhat you guys do best,
(08:03):
which is really helping peoplein the healing process.
Because that'skind of what your,
your organization is best knownfor is about that process.
I think, if I'm not mistaken,you guys actually created
a custom processin the early stages.
And you use trauma informedcare, for survivors.
So can you talk to usa little bit about what
(08:24):
the healing process looks likewith your organization
as you work withthese survivors?
Yes, we created a model of care,but I want to say it was largely
the architects of the modelwere the survivors themselves.
Because when wegot into this work, you know,
we didn't know whatwe were discovering.
And we were so dependentupon every woman and girl
that crossed our thresholdto teach us,
(08:46):
what we needed to know.
And there was a lotof collaboration
and observation to arrive atwhat our stages,
in the recovery process.
And I think anybodyin your audience
that is familiar with addictionswill be familiar with that.
We've sometimes heardabout the stages of change
as a theorythat people go through phases
(09:09):
leading towards whatever is thatsobriety, abstinence, healing.
And so for us, what we learnedis that usually within
about the first,90 days, 30 to 90 days
is a highly ambivalent time.
So I'm going to give yousome stereotypic
generalizations,but they they play out.
(09:29):
And during that period of time,let's say
that she is very ambivalentabout whether or not healing
is even possible for her.
Can she do it?
Does she want to go back?
Is the devil she know?
Maybe not so bad as opposed tothe one she doesn't know?
And so that's a difficulttime to go through.
And that's whywe see a lot of relapse,
(09:50):
and rebounding.
And, you know, itsurprises the lay people
because they're thinking,why would you go back
to an abusive situation?
But we see that in addiction.
We see that indomestic violence.
Then we see a stage that'sreally kind of interesting.
Once a survivor has begunto make the commitment to try,
that it'salmost as if she has this,
(10:13):
the world is my oyster phasewhere she sort of goes,
okay, well,I want to do everything.
I want to make up for lost time.
And you could sayit's a little manic.
But but it's a it'sa wonderful time.
Think of a middle schooler rightwhere they're
going to be an astronaut.
They're going to be a dentist.
They're going tojump off a plane.
They're going todo all the things.
And that's an important time,because a lot of those years,
(10:36):
as Scripture says,the locust were eaten.
And so they're kind ofgoing back and reclaiming
those times of discoveryand wonder and possibility.
Then we see a settlinginto now it's the work.
Right now it's walking it out.
And if you compare itto sobriety,
that would be all right.
I've gone throughthe first year,
but now I just have tomaintain sobriety.
(10:58):
And that can proveto be really hard,
because just doingthe daily slog of abstinence,
of sobriety is so difficult.
And so that period of time,depending upon their wounding,
that could be nine months,that could be a year and a half.
And then we seein the latter phases
what you might referto as social reentry,
(11:20):
where they begin to imagine,connectedness
outside of the shelter setting.
They begin to imagine belongingand being a part,
of the rest of the world.
It's funny because they, peoplewho've been exploited
call us squares,those of us who have not been.
And so they're like,look, Miss Teen, I'm
going to become a square.
And so it'skind of looking forward
(11:42):
to that new life.
And then like alot of processes,
there can also be a little bitof a quicksand moment.
There can be alittle bit of a danger
because just like your kidgraduating from high school,
you know, stepping outseems great
until you get out thereand all of a sudden,
oh my gosh, it's hard.
And so now what we're seeingis there's really
(12:02):
this fifth stage that again,people in sobriety
would know well, which is thethe phase of staying
connected to a communityso that you stay on track.
And certainly in your work,the whole accountability
piece, the wholejust got to have
my brothers around mebecause I'm going
to need to call themjust because that thing
(12:22):
crossed my path.
And and this can betrue for survivors.
Wow.
That's fascinating.
And it's so interestinghow it directly is
correlated to other,you know, recovery programs
and different addictionsthat we see.
So, you know, that last periodthat you just talked about that
one can be really challenging.
(12:44):
But with community, you know,that is really the secret sauce.
When you're surrounded by peoplethat can can encourage you
and hold you accountableand walk alongside you
in those tough spots.
It really makesall the difference.
How do you guysgo alongside these survivors,
like as theycontinue their journey?
Do you try to help place themwith local church bodies
(13:06):
or community groups?
Because obviouslyyou can't stay with them?
Probably for their whole life.
So how do you get them connectedso they receive that
ongoing support?
Well, I am on the eighth yearwith one survivor
and she named herdaughter after me.
So I think I waspretty enmeshed at this.
But but you're correct that we,we didn't know
(13:28):
going into this work,we kind of thought
that this would be akin tomaybe a hospital
or a rehab type of thingwhere you would
render some servicesfor a period of time,
and then they wouldthey'd be fine.
And we're finding thatthat's not true.
That that connectionis really hard to establish.
You know, interestingly enough,a large percentage of survivors
(13:49):
will leave their geographyto go get help someplace else.
So if I was trafficked in Texas,I might go to Tennessee
because I just wantto be somewhere else.
We call itgetting out of your cesspool.
And, that's true again,for other forms of recovery
where you just haveto change your environment.
But then when you do that,you've left everything behind.
(14:10):
So you have to reestablishall of that.
So church connection is huge.
It's very important.
We've got about63% of the shelters across
the United States areChristian shelters.
And so they often are connectedwith, church bodies
around their communityand try intentionally
to get survivors plugged in.
(14:32):
I think also gettingthem connected, in employment,
also in terms ofjust activities,
just social activitiessometimes, you know,
you have to think thatif you've been molested
since you were eightand you were turned out
as a product by 17, you didn'tcultivate hobbies, right?
(14:53):
You don'tyou don't have a concept
of recreation or free time.
And what we've learnedabout that latter phase
is probably the biggestdanger zone is idle time.
And that's when, unfortunately,you get the phone back
and you just start scrolling.
And there's a lotof temptations,
as you well know.
(15:14):
You know it.
Just hearing yousay these things too, it
just it breaks my heart that,you know, that we have
we have to haveservices like this because I,
you know, and then Ithink to the porn industry
and how it just feedsthis demand, it just sickens me
that there's not morepublic outcry,
you know, to stop this.
(15:35):
And what can we doand what can churches
do to prevent traffickingand to support survivors
in their community?
Because I would imagineevery community
has this going onin some way, shape or form
within their greater community.
What can we do?
Because I just sometimesfeel so torn, like,
how do I make a differencein this space?
(15:57):
Yeah, well, let me go backto your first point.
On that, in terms of howit's socially reinforced,
and sometimes the,the deck is stacked against you
because you wouldn'tperhaps think
maybe your listenerswouldn't think
that there is active promotionof sexual exploitation,
but in fact,through the pornography,
there absolutelyis the indoctrination
(16:19):
of our childrenat very young ages
that they should, you know,they've got a moneymaker
and they shouldmake their own way,
and they can use Only Fansor they can use TikTok.
And, you know, we've gotprepubescent children who are
earning variousforms of tender cash
forms, onlineby selling pictures
(16:40):
of themselvesor talking to strangers.
So there isa huge social reinforcement.
And I think the waywe also put a tremendous amount
of social pressureon the value of money
and how money is, idolized.
And I'vetalked to a number of survivors
who said, you know, it'shard to go from
(17:02):
if I was an escort in Memphisor Vegas or something like that,
and now you want me to get a jobat the Burger King?
And how am I going to live onthat? I have no skills.
And so just economically,there's a big temptation there.
So that leads to the second partof your question,
which is what can we do?
Well, the most important thingthat anybody can do
(17:25):
would be to startwithin your own home.
If you have children,these are vital
conversations to have,and you don't need
to approach itas if you're going, well,
I don't know howto talk to my kid
about sex trafficking.
Well, the media isfull of opportunities for you
to springboard from that.
Maybe you go seeSound of Freedom,
and then you take your kid outfor lunch and say,
(17:46):
what did you think?
Do you know any kids like that?
Hey, I heard this about TikTok.
Have you ever heard of anybodyin your school who's ever done
something like thisand just stoke that dialog?
You know, the adage is true.
One safe person in a child'slife is the greatest
insulating factor.
I would say alsoto your audience
(18:06):
keenly, the value of menin the lives of their daughters
cannot be overstated.
70% of our survivorsgrew up in fatherless homes,
and there is such atremendous desire for that hole
to be filled.
And unfortunately,it's just been occupied
(18:26):
by people who meant harm.
Not good.
But I do not findthat women are afraid of men,
or don't trust men, or hate menor any of the things
that we might,presume to be true.
Instead, there's a great hungerto know that kind of,
dignified and sacred intimacy,but also just to have
(18:48):
a male friend, to have a fatherfigure in your life.
It's so valuable.
You know, I saw this, podcast,just two days ago, and it was,
a roundtable of some womenwho were of age willfully
prostituting themselves.
And it was interestingbecause the interviewer
went around the roomand asked them
(19:10):
about their relationshipwith their fathers.
And to a point, they all saidthey have no relationship
with their fathers.
And that's very telling.
So let me be an encouragementto the men, in your audience
because their role, as awkwardas it is with your daughters,
is so incredibly vitalto the way
(19:30):
she will perceive herselfand whether or not
she will fall prey to somebodywho comes along and says,
I'll be your daddy.
Oh, my goodness,that is such good wisdom.
And I know our listenerswill definitely respond.
We are bringingtoday's episode to a close,
but I want to make surethat people are able to connect
(19:51):
with your organization.
And I believe you guys also havea conference coming up,
which may be a really good wayfor people to engage
and to learn how to get involvedwith organizations
like yours and helpfight against trafficking
in the United States.
Can you share with our listenershow to get in touch with you
and a little moreabout your conference?
Coming up to our websiteis Institute for Survivor Care.
(20:13):
It's long, but it's easy.
Institute for Survivor Care.
Org and there are some resourcesthere for the general public.
There's a map on the sheltersacross the United States
and a whole bunchof our research.
We put everything we make outso that,
everybody can learn from that.
And then the conferencethat we're doing
(20:34):
at the end of March,early April, the domain for
that is exploitationconference.org.
Now, I will say thatit's not so much
a public conference as it is formembers of the public,
or perhaps of church bodieswho want to actively engage in
anti-traffickingas part of their ministry.
(20:54):
It is the NationalChristian Conference
on Sexual Exploitation.
So it will be a gatheringof believers
who are involved in this workin a variety of ways,
from strip clubsto street outreach
to residential care.
We'll have a former porn starthere will have a buyer
who is redeemed.
He will be there.
(21:15):
And so there will beplenty of opportunities
for people to see howbroad the field is
and where the opportunitiesare for engagement.
Wow, that sounds incredible.
And a really great opportunityfor people to get involved.
So thank youso much for sharing that.
And thank you so much for comingon The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
Let us know howwe can be of service
(21:35):
and support your missionbecause it is so, so important.
And to all of our listeners,we will put links to all of the
the items that we just talkedabout, links to the conference
so that perhapsyou can get involved
in your community.
Thank youto all of our listeners
for tuning in to this episodeof The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
We'll see you again soon.
God bless. Take care.
Hey, everybody, welcome backto The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
We're so glad to have youjoining us again.
Make sure that you likeand subscribe to the podcast
so that we can get the word outabout great organizations
like the one we'reabout to talk to today.
We have the founder and chiefexecutive for the Institute
for Survivor Care.
We have, Jeanne Allert.
(00:28):
I'm so sorry.
It's fine.
Yeah.
No, she is a PhD,and she actually was convicted
to leave the trappingsof a lucrative career
as an internet consultantto establish
one of the very first longterm restorative care programs
in the Mid-Atlanticfor victims of domestic
sex trafficking.
(00:48):
We are so excitedto have you on the show today,
and this is a topicthat must be talked about.
So we justwe're just so grateful
that you had time tocome on the show and share
all of the thingsthat you guys are doing
and really just diveinto the topic of trafficking,
because oftentimeswe think of it as an issue
that over across the seas,but it actually
(01:08):
is happening herein the United States.
So I'm really excitedto talk to you more about that
and what we can do to helpstop that trafficking.
Great. Let's go.
Awesome.
Well, share with usa little bit about the mission
of your organization.
And, just I guesshow you started it or.
Yeah, it's importantto go back to Genesis right?
(01:30):
Our particular Genesis was one,like you mentioned,
I was in corporate lifeand, had an encounter
with a womanon the streets of Baltimore
who was being,trafficked and drug addicted
and having a conversationwith her 1 to 1, face to face,
getting a chance to,be exposed to
(01:51):
what her life was likewas transformative for me.
It made me so angry.
I couldn't believe thiswas happening in America.
And, And that instilled in mewhat I call my holy rage
that said, you know,I have to do something.
So I ended up selling my companyand selling my home
and buying a house and startinga restorative care program
(02:14):
in, Baltimore, Washington area.
Not having a cluewhat I was doing,
and ran that programserving juveniles
and adult survivorsfor about 13 years.
During that time,we began to realize
what was happeningacross the United States
and the gaps in services.
So we made a really difficultpivot to becoming the Institute
for Survivor Care,which now helps to raise up
(02:37):
future ministries, train peopleto enter into this work,
tool them upwith what they need,
not only training, but specific,you know, tools,
technologies, etc.
so that we can serve survivorswith excellence.
So we went fromdoing to teaching.
I love that that is great.
And that's such a discipleshipmodel right there.
(02:57):
Really. It's great.
So talk to mea little bit about, you know,
I think a lot of peopleare a little deceived
by how big this problemreally is.
I think they often don't thinkthat it's happening here.
And if they do that,it's something
just in the inner citiesand it's very sketchy,
but we don't know about it.
I would like to know,just from your perspective,
how invasive is thisproblem in the United States?
(03:20):
Well, we knowhave incidences of trafficking
in every state in the Union.
And so it isn'tas if it is unique
to particular geographies.
There can tendto be a clustering
wherever there is affluenceand poverty close together,
because that's an exploitof opportunity,
to take advantageof another population.
(03:41):
And oftentimesthe tracking of the, let's say,
arteries of exploitationfollow the money.
And so you might really look at,for example, the West Coast,
the East Coast,major urban areas,
but it's important to understandand that we can exploit
anybody anywhere.
And that can happenequally in rural areas.
(04:04):
What I think is important,what Hollywood doesn't do for us
very well, is give us a senseof how it looks different
in differentsocioeconomic classes
and different culturesin different parts
of the country.
You know,we might see, for example,
more labor trafficking in theagrarian states.
We might see more, sex tourismin some of the more
(04:27):
highly touristycities of America.
So it takes on a different,shape and form,
in different areas.
Okay. That makes sense.
So, you know, the workthat we do at
covenant is we're very in tunewith pornography is contribution
to this industryand how it really fuels that.
Can you talk a little bitabout how it does
(04:49):
contribute to that demandfor human trafficking
and exploitation?
Yeah.
You know, probablybest, said by a, law enforcement
investigator in Marylandwhere we, were for that
13 years period of time.
And he said that he hasn'thad a single case of trafficking
where there wasn'tthe presence of pornography
in the home of the exploiter.
(05:11):
And we have certainly heardfrom a couple
of hundred of women and girlswho have been exploited,
that pornography is oftenused as a tool
of indoctrination,desensitization,
sometimes instruction,you know, you'll watch this
and you'll do that.
We've heard about thatin a familial
trafficking situationwhere parents are,
(05:32):
exploiting their own children,that the children often
learn adult behaviors,if you want to put it that way,
through pornographic material.
So they are keenly interwoven.
And I don't know that a casecould be made
that you could extricate themand said, here's here's one bad
behavior over here,because they really are
(05:52):
dependent upon each other.
But that is not to suggestthat somebody who
consumes pornographyis necessarily
going to buy someone for sex.
But it's a pathway.
It's definitely a pathway.
That's a good point.
What are some of thebiggest misconceptions
floating aroundabout trafficking
(06:12):
and who is affected by it.
Well I'd say onby virtue of scale the bigger
misconceptions are movieslike Sound of Freedom
and Taken and things like thatthat, that paint this, epic hero
narrative of some lone strangergoing after the system
and rescuing childrenall on his own.
(06:36):
That's not helpful.
And it's not accurate.
The fact that it's transnationalonly, is a misconception
because as we'veestablished, it's right here
in the United Statesand even small communities,
the fact that it always involvessome big organized crime
or transnational,activity, because, again,
(06:57):
it can be just, a momwho has a drug addiction
and she's selling access toor her daughter or her son,
for the purposesof supporting that habit.
And, that's somethingspecifically familial
that we did a lengthy studyon and found that it's somewhere
between a quarterto a half of child
trafficking in America is atthe hands of a family member.
(07:20):
So it, it not only takesdifferent forms,
but it sometimes takes the shapethat we don't want
to think about.
We we we don't want to dealwith that. Right.
We wince at the,at the very heartbreak of that.
But those are the realities,the realities are that
people are vulnerablein a variety of ways.
They can be vulnerableby economics.
(07:41):
It can be compromisedbecause of substance abuse.
It can be, in many ways,relational, compromised
children in foster care,runaway kids and those
that are not socially connectedand protected
are highly vulnerableto being exploited.
Let's let's kind of pivot towhat you guys do best,
(08:03):
which is really helping peoplein the healing process.
Because that'skind of what your,
your organization is best knownfor is about that process.
I think, if I'm not mistaken,you guys actually created
a custom processin the early stages.
And you use trauma informedcare, for survivors.
So can you talk to usa little bit about what
(08:24):
the healing process looks likewith your organization
as you work withthese survivors?
Yes, we created a model of care,but I want to say it was largely
the architects of the modelwere the survivors themselves.
Because when wegot into this work, you know,
we didn't know whatwe were discovering.
And we were so dependentupon every woman and girl
that crossed our thresholdto teach us,
(08:46):
what we needed to know.
And there was a lotof collaboration
and observation to arrive atwhat our stages,
in the recovery process.
And I think anybodyin your audience
that is familiar with addictionswill be familiar with that.
We've sometimes heardabout the stages of change
as a theorythat people go through phases
(09:09):
leading towards whatever is thatsobriety, abstinence, healing.
And so for us, what we learnedis that usually within
about the first,90 days, 30 to 90 days
is a highly ambivalent time.
So I'm going to give yousome stereotypic
generalizations,but they they play out.
(09:29):
And during that period of time,let's say
that she is very ambivalentabout whether or not healing
is even possible for her.
Can she do it?
Does she want to go back?
Is the devil she know?
Maybe not so bad as opposed tothe one she doesn't know?
And so that's a difficulttime to go through.
And that's whywe see a lot of relapse,
(09:50):
and rebounding.
And, you know, itsurprises the lay people
because they're thinking,why would you go back
to an abusive situation?
But we see that in addiction.
We see that indomestic violence.
Then we see a stage that'sreally kind of interesting.
Once a survivor has begunto make the commitment to try,
that it'salmost as if she has this,
(10:13):
the world is my oyster phasewhere she sort of goes,
okay, well,I want to do everything.
I want to make up for lost time.
And you could sayit's a little manic.
But but it's a it'sa wonderful time.
Think of a middle schooler rightwhere they're
going to be an astronaut.
They're going to be a dentist.
They're going tojump off a plane.
They're going todo all the things.
And that's an important time,because a lot of those years,
(10:36):
as Scripture says,the locust were eaten.
And so they're kind ofgoing back and reclaiming
those times of discoveryand wonder and possibility.
Then we see a settlinginto now it's the work.
Right now it's walking it out.
And if you compare itto sobriety,
that would be all right.
I've gone throughthe first year,
but now I just have tomaintain sobriety.
(10:58):
And that can proveto be really hard,
because just doingthe daily slog of abstinence,
of sobriety is so difficult.
And so that period of time,depending upon their wounding,
that could be nine months,that could be a year and a half.
And then we seein the latter phases
what you might referto as social reentry,
(11:20):
where they begin to imagine,connectedness
outside of the shelter setting.
They begin to imagine belongingand being a part,
of the rest of the world.
It's funny because they, peoplewho've been exploited
call us squares,those of us who have not been.
And so they're like,look, Miss Teen, I'm
going to become a square.
And so it'skind of looking forward
(11:42):
to that new life.
And then like alot of processes,
there can also be a little bitof a quicksand moment.
There can be alittle bit of a danger
because just like your kidgraduating from high school,
you know, stepping outseems great
until you get out thereand all of a sudden,
oh my gosh, it's hard.
And so now what we're seeingis there's really
(12:02):
this fifth stage that again,people in sobriety
would know well, which is thethe phase of staying
connected to a communityso that you stay on track.
And certainly in your work,the whole accountability
piece, the wholejust got to have
my brothers around mebecause I'm going
to need to call themjust because that thing
(12:22):
crossed my path.
And and this can betrue for survivors.
Wow.
That's fascinating.
And it's so interestinghow it directly is
correlated to other,you know, recovery programs
and different addictionsthat we see.
So, you know, that last periodthat you just talked about that
one can be really challenging.
(12:44):
But with community, you know,that is really the secret sauce.
When you're surrounded by peoplethat can can encourage you
and hold you accountableand walk alongside you
in those tough spots.
It really makesall the difference.
How do you guysgo alongside these survivors,
like as theycontinue their journey?
Do you try to help place themwith local church bodies
(13:06):
or community groups?
Because obviouslyyou can't stay with them?
Probably for their whole life.
So how do you get them connectedso they receive that
ongoing support?
Well, I am on the eighth yearwith one survivor
and she named herdaughter after me.
So I think I waspretty enmeshed at this.
But but you're correct that we,we didn't know
(13:28):
going into this work,we kind of thought
that this would be akin tomaybe a hospital
or a rehab type of thingwhere you would
render some servicesfor a period of time,
and then they wouldthey'd be fine.
And we're finding thatthat's not true.
That that connectionis really hard to establish.
You know, interestingly enough,a large percentage of survivors
(13:49):
will leave their geographyto go get help someplace else.
So if I was trafficked in Texas,I might go to Tennessee
because I just wantto be somewhere else.
We call itgetting out of your cesspool.
And, that's true again,for other forms of recovery
where you just haveto change your environment.
But then when you do that,you've left everything behind.
(14:10):
So you have to reestablishall of that.
So church connection is huge.
It's very important.
We've got about63% of the shelters across
the United States areChristian shelters.
And so they often are connectedwith, church bodies
around their communityand try intentionally
to get survivors plugged in.
(14:32):
I think also gettingthem connected, in employment,
also in terms ofjust activities,
just social activitiessometimes, you know,
you have to think thatif you've been molested
since you were eightand you were turned out
as a product by 17, you didn'tcultivate hobbies, right?
(14:53):
You don'tyou don't have a concept
of recreation or free time.
And what we've learnedabout that latter phase
is probably the biggestdanger zone is idle time.
And that's when, unfortunately,you get the phone back
and you just start scrolling.
And there's a lotof temptations,
as you well know.
(15:14):
You know it.
Just hearing yousay these things too, it
just it breaks my heart that,you know, that we have
we have to haveservices like this because I,
you know, and then Ithink to the porn industry
and how it just feedsthis demand, it just sickens me
that there's not morepublic outcry,
you know, to stop this.
(15:35):
And what can we doand what can churches
do to prevent traffickingand to support survivors
in their community?
Because I would imagineevery community
has this going onin some way, shape or form
within their greater community.
What can we do?
Because I just sometimesfeel so torn, like,
how do I make a differencein this space?
(15:57):
Yeah, well, let me go backto your first point.
On that, in terms of howit's socially reinforced,
and sometimes the,the deck is stacked against you
because you wouldn'tperhaps think
maybe your listenerswouldn't think
that there is active promotionof sexual exploitation,
but in fact,through the pornography,
there absolutelyis the indoctrination
(16:19):
of our childrenat very young ages
that they should, you know,they've got a moneymaker
and they shouldmake their own way,
and they can use Only Fansor they can use TikTok.
And, you know, we've gotprepubescent children who are
earning variousforms of tender cash
forms, onlineby selling pictures
(16:40):
of themselvesor talking to strangers.
So there isa huge social reinforcement.
And I think the waywe also put a tremendous amount
of social pressureon the value of money
and how money is, idolized.
And I'vetalked to a number of survivors
who said, you know, it'shard to go from
(17:02):
if I was an escort in Memphisor Vegas or something like that,
and now you want me to get a jobat the Burger King?
And how am I going to live onthat? I have no skills.
And so just economically,there's a big temptation there.
So that leads to the second partof your question,
which is what can we do?
Well, the most important thingthat anybody can do
(17:25):
would be to startwithin your own home.
If you have children,these are vital
conversations to have,and you don't need
to approach itas if you're going, well,
I don't know howto talk to my kid
about sex trafficking.
Well, the media isfull of opportunities for you
to springboard from that.
Maybe you go seeSound of Freedom,
and then you take your kid outfor lunch and say,
(17:46):
what did you think?
Do you know any kids like that?
Hey, I heard this about TikTok.
Have you ever heard of anybodyin your school who's ever done
something like thisand just stoke that dialog?
You know, the adage is true.
One safe person in a child'slife is the greatest
insulating factor.
I would say alsoto your audience
(18:06):
keenly, the value of menin the lives of their daughters
cannot be overstated.
70% of our survivorsgrew up in fatherless homes,
and there is such atremendous desire for that hole
to be filled.
And unfortunately,it's just been occupied
(18:26):
by people who meant harm.
Not good.
But I do not findthat women are afraid of men,
or don't trust men, or hate menor any of the things
that we might,presume to be true.
Instead, there's a great hungerto know that kind of,
dignified and sacred intimacy,but also just to have
(18:48):
a male friend, to have a fatherfigure in your life.
It's so valuable.
You know, I saw this, podcast,just two days ago, and it was,
a roundtable of some womenwho were of age willfully
prostituting themselves.
And it was interestingbecause the interviewer
went around the roomand asked them
(19:10):
about their relationshipwith their fathers.
And to a point, they all saidthey have no relationship
with their fathers.
And that's very telling.
So let me be an encouragementto the men, in your audience
because their role, as awkwardas it is with your daughters,
is so incredibly vitalto the way
(19:30):
she will perceive herselfand whether or not
she will fall prey to somebodywho comes along and says,
I'll be your daddy.
Oh, my goodness,that is such good wisdom.
And I know our listenerswill definitely respond.
We are bringingtoday's episode to a close,
but I want to make surethat people are able to connect
(19:51):
with your organization.
And I believe you guys also havea conference coming up,
which may be a really good wayfor people to engage
and to learn how to get involvedwith organizations
like yours and helpfight against trafficking
in the United States.
Can you share with our listenershow to get in touch with you
and a little moreabout your conference?
Coming up to our websiteis Institute for Survivor Care.
(20:13):
It's long, but it's easy.
Institute for Survivor Care.
Org and there are some resourcesthere for the general public.
There's a map on the sheltersacross the United States
and a whole bunchof our research.
We put everything we make outso that,
everybody can learn from that.
And then the conferencethat we're doing
(20:34):
at the end of March,early April, the domain for
that is exploitationconference.org.
Now, I will say thatit's not so much
a public conference as it is formembers of the public,
or perhaps of church bodieswho want to actively engage in
anti-traffickingas part of their ministry.
(20:54):
It is the NationalChristian Conference
on Sexual Exploitation.
So it will be a gatheringof believers
who are involved in this workin a variety of ways,
from strip clubsto street outreach
to residential care.
We'll have a former porn starthere will have a buyer
who is redeemed.
He will be there.
(21:15):
And so there will beplenty of opportunities
for people to see howbroad the field is
and where the opportunitiesare for engagement.
Wow, that sounds incredible.
And a really great opportunityfor people to get involved.
So thank youso much for sharing that.
And thank you so much for comingon The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
Let us know howwe can be of service
(21:35):
and support your missionbecause it is so, so important.
And to all of our listeners,we will put links to all of the
the items that we just talkedabout, links to the conference
so that perhapsyou can get involved
in your community.
Thank youto all of our listeners
for tuning in to this episodeof The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
We'll see you again soon.
God bless. Take care.
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