April 9, 2025 • 33 mins
Is the Church silent where it should be healing?
In this powerful episode of the Covenant Eyes Podcast, Dr. Carol Tanksley—physician, minister, and intimacy coach—dives into the deep waters of sexual brokenness, healing, intimacy, and the role of the Church. Joined by host Karen Potter, Dr. Carol shares her personal story, the transformative journey of her ministry, and why real healing requires honesty, community, and God's redemptive love.
🔥 Whether you're battling a pornography addiction, supporting a spouse in recovery, or longing for deeper emotional intimacy, this conversation offers practical tools, spiritual encouragement, and biblical wisdom.
💡 Learn how to stop managing sin and start pursuing wholeness.
► Subscribe to Covenant Eyes for more weekly encouragement and victory stories:
https://cvnteyes.co/4gb6xme
► Download the Victory App and start your healing journey:
https://cvnteyes.co/41YU8Od
CHAPTERS:
00:00 - Intro: The Journey to Wholeness
01:12 - What Is Sexual Wholeness?
03:50 - Why “Managing Sin” Doesn’t Work
06:30 - How Trauma and Shame Block Intimacy
09:10 - The Importance of Safe, Honest Conversations
11:45 - The Church’s Silence on Sexual Issues
14:30 - When the Church Becomes a Place of Healing
17:05 - God's Design for Wholeness
19:42 - Why Community is Critical to Healing
22:15 - Invitation to Start the Journey
24:03 - Closing Thoughts + Resources
#SexualHealing #ChristianIntimacy #CovenantEyesPodcast
Try Covenant Eyes for FREE today!
Use Promo Code: FreePodcast
© 2024 Covenant Eyes, All Rights Reserved
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Welcome back to TheCovenant Eyes Podcast.
It's Karen,I'm so glad to have you
here today.
We've got a great showand we have one of
our favorite guests returning todo an interview. Today.
We're going to talkabout marriage.
We're going to talkabout pornography,
impact on thatand how we can work
to strengthen our marriages,along with all sorts
of other topics.
(00:26):
Today's guest is DoctorCarol, an author,
speaker, personal coach.
She's a licensed OBGYN physicianand an ordained
Doctor of ministry.
Many people struggleto find help that they need
in the church, and Doctor Carolreally takes this to heart.
She has workedtirelessly to support
and to help people with brokenrelationships, issues around sex
(00:49):
and sexuality, mentalemotional problems,
and toxic religion.
So we are justreally excited to dive
into a conversationwith Doctor Carol today.
Welcome back to the podcast.
I'm thrilled.
Karen, I love Covenant Eyes.
I love all that you do.
And it's greatto be talking with you
here. Awesome.
Well, I knowthe last time we had you on,
(01:10):
you know, we talkeda little bit about
we had our new, program arisecoming out for women.
So that has goneexceptionally well.
And women all across the countryand even across the globe
are really findingsome freedom there.
But today's conversation,we're going to actually
kind of focus in on marriages.
And, you know, one of the thingsthat we hear quite frequently
(01:31):
at Covenant Eyes, as badas a couple,
is journey journeying throughpornography addiction.
And really going through that.
They really struggle withhow to rebuild
their relationships, post,discovery of pornography
in the relationship.
So I want to talk to youa little bit about,
from your experience,some of the ways
that you've been ableto help and coach people
(01:52):
through broken relationshipsthat came from pornography
or other sexual addictions.
Yeah, it is a big deal.
And because of howcommon struggles
with pornographyare for both men and women,
it impacts an awfullot of marriages.
I think one ofthe biggest things I hear
from people in a marriagewhere this is a factor,
(02:13):
is the sense of betrayalthey have that the spouse
who discovers that their spousehas been using pornography
feels likethey have been lied to,
and that they have beenbetrayed, like the, the
just the fidelity thatthey were expecting
(02:34):
they haven't had.
And they'll the trust is lost.
That might be anotherreally important way to say it.
When trust is broken,it's a rupture
in the relationship.
And neurobiologyand social sciences
tell us a lot about rupture,but they also tell us
a lot about repair.
(02:54):
And froma Christian perspective,
I think we canlook at the whole story
of redemption as ruptureand repair and relationships.
So this is right up God's alley.
It's something that those of uswho follow Jesus have
tremendous resourcesto bring to bear on.
First of all, findinghealing for individual heart
(03:15):
and then repairin the relationship
between people when that trusthas been broken.
I would also say thatfor the person
who has been using pornand has been trying
to hide it, it's oftennot out of malice.
But because they don'twant to hurt their spouse,
they want toprotect their spouse
(03:35):
from feeling badand feeling pain,
which frequently they do.
And I just want to say to both,husbands and wives,
regardless of who is or hasor is struggling with this,
honesty is kind.
Truth is kind.
Now you can givetruth in an unkind way,
(03:58):
but it is far kinderto be honest and work
through the implications of thatthan to stay in the closet
and keep things hidden.
That's such a foundational thingthat I think it's important
to start with.
Absolutely.
And I think you've got,book, Sexpectations,
(04:19):
if I got that right.
You have a book that kind oftalks through, you know, freedom
from wounds and mistakesand healing.
And I think you havea video course
now that goes with that.
Yes.
Is that a resourcethat can help people
who are on a journeyto try to find some healing
for their marriageor for themselves,
and then their marriage next?
(04:39):
Yes.
This particular resource,the book and the digital video
course expectations,is particularly about
starting with a person'sown heart, whether they are
the one who approachesthis from being wounded
or they arethe one approaching this
from struggling with badbehaviors, addictions,
whatever around sexuality.
(05:01):
What the book and the digitalcourse do is help a person
look at their story with honestyand compassion,
just like Jesus doeswhat brought them
to where they are,and bring Jesus
right into the middleof their story, and then
find healing and develop thethe capacity for intimacy
for those who are married.
(05:21):
Obviously, the first place,humanly speaking, to approach
that is with your spouse.
And when your heart has receiveda measure of healing,
whether you're the offenderor the offended.
And I even hateusing those terms because we've
all hurt peopleand we've all been hurt.
But wherever you fall in this,as you develop
(05:43):
measure of healingin your own heart,
then you becomemuch more capable of intimacy.
If you're marriedwith your spouse,
which is which is whatwe're talking about today.
And of course, you know,the pornography distortions
in your brain impactwhat you think of when you think
of intimacy with your spouse.
But intimacy ismuch more than sex.
(06:04):
And so we have to lookat the broader picture,
not only sexual activitywith my spouse,
but the mind and heart and soultaking the coverings off
all of you.
You can't experience intimacyjust by taking the coverings off
your body, your clothes off.
The coveringsalso come off your heart
and mind and soul.
If you're a trueto experience intimacy,
(06:26):
and that can be achallenging journey.
When pornographyhas been a factor in a marriage.
Absolutely.
That is so true.
And, you know, aswe're thinking about
married coupleswalking through this,
this healing journey together,you know, one of the things
that I think is really importantis that both parties
have support systemsbuilt around them, that,
(06:49):
you know, the spousethat's been wounded
as well as the personthat's struggling
with sex addictionor pornography addiction.
What what kind of, advice or,recommendations
do you have for peopleas they're on this journey,
as far as who to surroundthemselves with,
how to be tappedinto some sort of
community support?
The number one thingis find a friend.
(07:11):
If you don't havea group around,
you start with one.
I know that with manyof the Covenant Ties
programs, there's that there'sthe capability of connecting
with other people online,and that can be a
good place to start,whether it's that, whether it's
somebody at church,whether it's somebody
at your workplaceor that, you know,
start with just one.
(07:33):
Ideally, your goalis to find three
to 5 or 6 peoplethat you know them
and they know you.
You're up in eachother's business.
You ask the hard questions.
Accountability is a keypart of that.
It doesn't stop there.
But you do need somebody to knowwhat's going on with you
and to challenge you to be upin your business, and also
(07:57):
to encourage youto pray with you, to support you
when you are feeling hopeless,struggling again, and you
and you feel like you,you know, you messed up,
am I ever goingto get out of this?
Or, there's no wayI can ever be close
to my spouse againbecause they've
wounded me so much.
Whatever it is,you need somebody to hear you
(08:21):
to be as Christ to you,a human body
with eyes and skin and.
And that you can talkwith, ideally, that you can feel
and be in personwith that that's best.
And then a little broader.
A few peoplein the body of Christ,
that that is the singlehardest thing that I find
(08:45):
people struggle withwhen they are walking
this journey.
Whichever part of the,the equation
they personally are,to find a few people
to be honest with feelssuch an enormous
mountain to climb.
And so what I encourageis whether it's through,
you know, the covenantresources or something else,
(09:08):
prayerfully consider and then,I suggest just write
down on a piece of paperthe 1 or 2 or half a dozen
people who might be possible,and then reach out
to the first one and just say,can we chat? Okay.
And then if you've never donethis before,
you can start by saying,you know, God is stretching me.
(09:31):
There's stuff he's dealingwith me about,
and he's encouraging meto connect with someone
and people.
I'm wondering, might you beone of my people?
Could I tell you something?
And if they say yes, okay,you've got to start
and just start there.
I will tell whoever is listeningor watching.
(09:53):
It's very likely that the personyou approach will say,
oh really? Me too.
That's not a guarantee,but it's likely in our world
it's likelythey are struggling too.
And so just takethat step and start.
Absolutely.
And, you know, pornography useis something
that, you know, there'sso much shame involved in it
(10:15):
that people push it downand they isolate and they hide.
And so coming, you know, forwardand seeking that help
in that community and findingyour band of brothers
or band, the sisters.
It's hard, right?
Because pornography teaches usto be isolated and to just,
you know, stay in secretand to keep this hidden.
(10:36):
So then is a really hard stepfor a lot of people to take.
And I think you offeredsome really good practical ways
that they can do that.
And sometimes we have towe just have to step out
in faith with people as well.
What are yourrecommendations, though,
like when we're lookingfor those people
that can be trustedin our lives?
Like is there a criteriaor is there something
we should look forin those people?
(10:57):
Because obviouslywe can't trust everybody and not
everybody is going to bebeneficial and helpful.
And when we're justcoming forward,
we want to make surethat we have someone that safe
that we can trust.
So do you haveany recommendations of, like,
how to weed out peoplethat maybe aren't
the right fit to bein your inner circle
as you're going through thisgreat question.
And many peoplehave been wounded
(11:19):
in relationship,and maybe you've tried
to find somebodyfor your inner circle
and have been wounded in thatvery quest already.
So a couplethings that I would say,
look for somebody who,from everything you see
and experience with them,are able to be present
for others, thattheir world is not
just about themself,that they demonstrate they see
(11:43):
the other person,maybe it's not that
they have seen you,but you notice
that they are able to be presentto somebody else
rather than makingeverything about them.
Ideally, youmight have observed them
for a little while and seenthat they are serious
about their own walk with Jesus,that they are allowing him
(12:04):
to change them.
Yeah.
That can be really, really key.
And when you first approach themand just in whether you start
by asking to shareabout your porn use or not,
just your initial interactionswith them, you want to
get the sense that they arenot there primarily to fix you.
(12:30):
What you are looking foris somebody
to be present with you,like Jesus was.
Yeah, yeah.
That doesn't mean thatif you are in a bad place,
you stay thereor that that person,
wants you to stay there.
But you're not lookingfor somebody to fix you.
You're not looking for somebodyto be junior Holy Spirit.
(12:52):
And so just in the waythey carry themselves,
the way they talk,if if somebody is spouting
Bible verses,every other sentence,
it's probably notsomebody who's able
to be with you.
That doesn't mean thatthe Bible is not a key
part of our life with Godand our transformation journey,
but you want somebody whodemonstrates the capacity to see
(13:17):
that life is more than fact,that it's it's a journey
and and is able toto be present.
I think that's probablyone of the most important things
to look for.
That's really good.
And it's so hard nowadays to,to find people
that can be present,because we live
in such a strange worldwhere everything is
(13:39):
so instant gratificationand we're always online.
And, you know,most of our friendships
and communicationsare done on our cell phones and,
you know,social media platforms.
And so it definitely takesa little bit of effort and work.
But there are people out there.
Do you think the local churchis a great place to find people?
I mean, obviouslybeing connected
to the body of Christin a local church
(14:01):
body is going to bea great place to start as you're
looking for people to buildyour kind of
accountability circle.
It should be the ideal place.
I can guarantee toanybody who's watching
that there are other peoplein your church
who are struggling with porn.
I can guarantee that.
Men and women.
(14:21):
Yeah.
There are some churches,however, that are much more
friendly to peoplewho are walking
a journal of struggle,whether it's porn or
something else than others.
So if your church is one where,people are finding joy
and freedomin Christ in general,
(14:42):
then it's very likely that therewill be people in that church
who can hear your story.
And the present with you.
So it's an importantplace to look. I did,
have an experiencevery, very recently with a lady
who is walkingthrough her journey
of brokenness and her churchcomes across,
(15:05):
and even in her case,sadly, the pastor
that she has spoke with, well,you just need to try harder.
You just need to buck upand and do it.
That is not a helpful message.
And so there may be timeswhen your particular experience
of the body of Christ may not bethe safest place.
(15:27):
I say that with grief,with sadness, but in the broader
sense, absolutely.
So if your personal congregationdoesn't seem like it might be,
a safe place, it it is okayto prayerfully, you know,
look for some other.
I wish I didn't have to say thatbecause the body of Christ
(15:48):
should be the bestand safest place to find healing
and transformation and support.
For sure.
Yeah, but unfortunately,the church is filled
with humans, right?
And we are veryflawed and sinful.
And so unfortunately,that is the case.
But I thinka majority of churches,
you know, they do their best.
But you're right,there are circumstances
(16:09):
and we've heardthose stories as well
where there's actually beenchurch hurt.
You know, youyou try to get help and healing
in that place and, you know,there's betrayal
or trust is brokenor just not good advice,
like you just mentionedin that story.
And that's harmful.
And it's not helpfulat all in the journey.
Well, let me ask you a funI'm going to kind of pivot
a little bit.
So you're a licensedOBGYN physician and.
(16:32):
How.
How did you get tappedinto working with people
who are strugglingwith their relationships or sex
and sexuality, mentalemotional problems?
How did you get tapped intowanting to do that
type of work as well?
Because it seems like itit's totally different worlds.
But, you know,at the end of the day,
it's probablyvery much connected.
(16:53):
But I'd love to hearfrom you about that.
I often think God must chucklewhen he's he sees me.
And and considering my story,the OBGYN world and the world
of ministry and workthat I'm doing today
are not as separate as,you might think
(17:13):
because as an OBGYN,I was privileged
to work with womenand with couples in
some of the mostintimate aspects of their bodies
and their livesand their relationships.
I would hear thingsI will remember a woman
who was in her 40s and,she came in just just for a
simple examination.
But you could tellshe was, you know, she she was
(17:35):
having struggles.
And we talkedfor a couple of minutes
and she said, my husbandhasn't touched me in years.
Now, I don't know, in her case,if that was because
he was watching porn or not,but just those kinds
of tender moments.
Right?
It was about ten yearsinto my medical practice
when God justkind of jerked me up
(17:56):
and pointed me in a directionof getting ministry training.
I realized, you know by thenthat I couldn't heal anybody.
You know, the Great Physician,Jesus is the Healer,
and medicine can oftenand often is a ministry.
But he had something uniquefor me to do.
So I wentand also got my theology
and Doctor ministry training.
(18:16):
And then, when my husband and Iwere married and doing
a radio program, the segmentof our weekly show
that seemed to getthe most response
was about relationships.
And we started talkingabout the things
in our marriage.
And, you know, the things thatwe had learned
and just being helped topeople would call in.
(18:38):
And that seemed to getthe most response
when I started writing,it seemed like the things
I would writeabout relationships
got the most response.
And, it was a few years ago,I just wrote a couple articles
about sex between husbandsand wives,
and when it wasn't good, when itwhen it wasn't working well,
and the just huge responseto that compared to, you know,
(19:03):
the other things.
And so just startednarrowing in on that
and followingwhere God was leading.
And that has now becomea real focal point.
I believethat in a large measure,
that is because the whole areaof intimacy and sex,
they're related, but they'renot the same.
But that whole area gets so deepin our hearts and God
(19:24):
cares about the heart.
It's much more than behaviors.
I know you, a covenantis such a huge focus
because it's a big thing,and culture is about porn
and God cares about that.
But if there's anythingGod cares about more, it's
what is going on in the heart,one level deeper.
And that is where I feelGod has really just put his
(19:45):
finger on meand called me to speak into that
particular area.
And I see the kind of responsefrom people that is just it's
both sobering and sadand very gratifying as people
find healing and wholeness.
Absolutely.
That's amazing.
And it's amazing how God directsour journey in such unique ways.
(20:06):
But, you know, that's great.
Well, I mean, it's not a farstretch either.
I mean, 56 and this numberis actually like a decade old,
but 56% of marriages fall apartbecause of someone's
pornography use.
And that was the numberfrom a long time ago.
So we know that pornographyis certainly impacting
relationships and intimacy.
(20:26):
And there's just so much packedinto that.
So I just I think it's greathow God has really led
you on this journey.
And I think there isa lot of crossover,
from the workthat you were doing
as an OBGYN intonow helping people
with relationshipand sex and sexuality
and all the questionsthat surround that.
So I love that.
Well, let's talka little bit about,
(20:47):
your work specificallyand like what
your ministry reallyhas to offer for our listeners.
If they're looking for helpbecause you're kind of
the relationship expert,you have a ton of resources
to help people.
And I think if you lookaround society,
I think everybody wouldprobably agree that relationship
problems are a top concern.
And, you know, a lot ofthat's fueled from pornography
(21:10):
or from just brokennessand just all sorts
of hurts and hangups.
But relationships need helpin America, right?
So talk to us a little bitabout your ministry
and what you do to help people.
I don't know that thereis any area of life
that has a bigger impacton our sense of well-being
than the quality of our closestpersonal relationships.
(21:31):
If you're married, obviouslythat's your spouse.
If you want to be married, it'slooking for a spouse.
If you're unhappily single,then you know how just the the
the struggles there.
I'm.
I'm single againsince my husband passed away.
So, I've experienced both that,in our case, happy marriage
(21:53):
and also singleness and dealingwith relationships, is so key.
And I think God caresabout that deeply.
So as far as our ministry, yeah,there's a lot of free online
resourcesthat we make available.
A couple blog articles a week,about half of those have to do
(22:16):
with marriage directly.
The other half have to do withmay or may not
be marriage directly,but intimacy and the heart
and intimacy with God.
DrCarolMinistries.comis where you can find that hub
of of all such things.
We have a weekly podcastthat we call relation
(22:36):
ship prescriptions.
And it's intimacy,whether it's in marriage
or the need for single peopleto deal with their need
for intimacy.
How do you do thatif you're not married?
The differencebetween sex and intimacy
and intimacy with God,and we address
all of those things,those are frequent topics on the
on our relationshipPrescriptions podcast.
(22:59):
And then you mentionedour expectations, portion,
which is a big partof what we do,
the book expectations.
And then the digital course,you can find that at your
expectations.com.
Be sure and put the your there.
Because if you just searchfor expectations you're going
to go somewhereyou don't want to go.
So your sex dictationsand then yeah.
(23:21):
Karen, thank youfor asking about this
because we just in the last yearin our ministry have been doing
live in-person,intensive retreats
and that has, like, opened upa whole new world
that is more powerfulthan anything.
Yet there's somethingthat happens when a
small group of peopleare present in a safe place
(23:44):
to deal with the thingsthat maybe they haven't
spoken before, both thethings that may have
been done to them,and the things that they may
have done in response,where they've been wounded,
where to findhealing, experience
Jesus coming into themiddle of their story.
And that is somethingrelatively new,
that is just a beautifuland life transforming aspect.
(24:06):
And that's where we're puttinga lot of our energy right now.
So all such thingsDrCarolMinistries.com.
I love that, and I love thatyou're doing these in-person
intensives, because I thinkin a world where we're so
connected, quoteunquote, online,
we're so disconnectedand we need to get together
in safe places and really walkthrough that.
(24:27):
That's beautiful.
So this is a new thingthat you're doing.
How do people is about these,intensives on your website?
And they can find outmore about that,
because that certainlywill be appealing
to our audience. Yeah.
We are getting information up.
The reason we haven't made thatfront and center on our website
is because all the eventswe've had to date have been full
with just word of mouth.
(24:47):
But here's what.
I would tell your listeners.
We are expanding.
God is doingsome beautiful things
in the ministry.
We're expandingso we can do this more,
and we're going to behaving information
front and center soon.
But if you are listeningand you want to come
to one of thesein-person events,
use the contact pageand just say,
send me informationabout your events
(25:09):
and I will respond.
I'm the one who addressesthose contact page questions
personally, so just go toDrCarolMinistries.com,
the contact page,send me a question
and I'll respond and get youall those details.
That's awesome.
All right.
Well we'll be sure to put linksin the show notes.
So Doctor Carol, for our finaltopic today, I just want to dive
(25:30):
into the church because I know,you know, with your background,
you certainly have a heartfor the church
and for God's people,but the church is kind of
missing the boat a little bitsometimes when it comes
to addressing sexual brokennessand pornography.
You know,I see a lot of churches
doing the best they can.
But really,at the end of the day,
we need to bedoing so much more.
(25:51):
So I want to talk a little bitabout how we can get
churches more engagedand help them do a better job
of making the churcha safe place to learn
about these things,because otherwise
people are going online and,you know, learning about this
stuff and placeswe don't want them to.
And then there's our childrenwho are learning
because of social mediaand being attacked.
(26:12):
So let's talk a little bitabout the church.
What are your thoughts on likehow the church is doing
with these topicsand how they can
maybe do a little betterand what we can do
to help them? Yeah.
Well, I just got togive a shout out to Sam
Black there at Covenant Eyes.
His book that that's,you know, a
big focus of his work.
He's been on our podcastand just love the work
that you guys are doing there.
(26:34):
But I agree with you completely.
The majority of churchesare doing the best
they can in many ways.
And it's it'snot it's not cutting it.
One of the biggest thingsthat my heart feels about,
where the lack is in churchis the focus on behavior
(26:56):
that it's all about do'sand don'ts, behaviors
have consequences.
If you are exposedto porn as a child,
the message is your brainis going to see and picture
are going to mess you up.
If you are addictedto porn, it's going to
mess up your marriage and itmay or may not survive.
Behaviors have consequences,and if all we do is tell people
(27:20):
don't do this, do this,they're trying harder.
They're full of shame, they failand it doesn't work.
I believe that the messagethat people need to
hear in church isthese behaviors
have consequences.
But let's help you.
This is not aboutjust trying harder.
(27:42):
This is about creating bandsof sisters, bands of brothers,
ideally under the banner of KingJesus. That's right.
Where we can walk togetherexperiencing his transformation.
I think that needsto include stories
from the front.
I think it needsto include stories in kids
church, in youth group,not only about the bad stuff,
(28:05):
but about peoplewho have experienced
measures of healing.
They're not done yet.
Are any of us done?
But you're sharing storiesabout how Jesus can come in
and change your life,specifically
about sexual brokenness.
I think that is sucha big factor.
So making the point of it'smore than just trying harder.
(28:27):
How do we walk with peopleto let Jesus deeper
into the levels of their heartand address the needs that
nobody wakes up one dayand says, I'm going to
be addicted to porn?
Something happens.
It solves a problem.
We need to help peoplefind solutions to those problems
(28:47):
that they are going to pornand other illegitimate behaviors
for solving the problemin the sense of a quick fix
like junk food, empty calories,and it only kills them faster.
But that need for intimacy,the need for connection,
the need for understandingabout our bodies and sexuality
and relationships.
So having conversationsright from, you know,
(29:11):
kids, churchall the way through,
it needs to be just normalto talk about these things
in the body of Christ.
I, I waxed a little,hot there for a second
because it isan important thing,
and you can see I care about it.
Yeah, absolutely.
No, I love it.
Well, and it's funnybecause the Bible
does not shy away from sharingthe stories of. Your.
(29:35):
Sexual brokenness.
You know, peoplethroughout the Bible,
we see that all throughout.
And, you know, it's weirdthat we don't embrace
sharing the testimoniesand the things that God has done
for each of us more frequentlyin church, because those
testimoniescan be transformational
to someone else who's listeningto that story.
I know when I read the Bibleand I hear about the
(29:56):
brokenness of Davidand the things that he did
and how much he lovedGod, you know, and how much
his heart was after God, but yeta flawed, sinful man.
He was with sexual brokennessall over.
I mean, there are justso many things
that can be applied,and I just feel like
you're right.
We need to talk about thisfrom the front.
It needs to be embracedin youth groups.
(30:17):
So I'm excitedthat you have a passion
to really help our churches,you know, get
invigorated around this.
Just one quick thing.
You mentioned the Bible.
There's a lot of badsex in the Bible.
You know, I mean, it'sit's it's X-rated,
you know, I mean,and it's really, really bad.
And the good stuffis also there,
(30:38):
the Song of Solomon,right in the center
of the Bible,unadulterated goodness.
And so you can seethe whole picture.
That's part of whatwe as followers of Jesus need to
be talking about.
Absolutely. Yeah.
And the Bible doesn't shy away.
So why should we write?
I love that.
Well, Doctor Carol,as we bring today's
(30:58):
episode to a close,I just want to
leave our listeners with kind ofa message of hope
and encouragement.
So do you have somethingon your heart
that you would love to sharewith our listeners?
And, you know, just give themsome encouragement
in their journey,whatever side of the
equation they're on.
Regardless of which side ofthe equation you're on or what
your brandof sexual brokenness is,
(31:19):
what Jesus would sayis just come, if you feel addict
and ashamed and overwhelmedand hopeless that you can never
just come.
If you feel lonely and betrayedand isolated and wounded,
you may not feel likeyou can even take
another breath.
It hurts so deep.
(31:40):
Just comewhatever it is for you,
whether it's pornor something else.
Just come.
There is nothing that youhave experienced.
Nothing that's been done to you.
Nothing that you have donethat could make Jesus
love you any less.
And one of thefirst things I believe
Jesus would say isfind a friend.
(32:01):
Let's do this together.
Covenant ties can be a resource.
The body of Christ.
We talk about it.
Ask, pray.
Ask somebodyto come alongside you.
That's hard.
But do it anyway.
There is hope.
There are too many storiesout there of people
who have been.
(32:22):
I'm going to say itworse than you,
who were found healing and hopeand restoration.
If you need to borrow faith fromsome of the rest of us
for a bit, do that.
It can.
You can find it too.
Oh that's great, I love that.
Well, that is an excellent wayto close today's episode,
and I want to encourageall of our listeners
to check out DoctorCarol's website.
(32:44):
You will find links to all thedifferent resources
we talked about today.
And then don't forget,if you want more information
on her intensivesto fill out the Contact
Her button on her websiteand she will get you
all the informationabout those programs.
Doctor Carol, it is always a joyto have you on.
You bring so muchenergy and passion
for helping peopleand we just really
appreciate it.
So thanks for joining us today.
(33:05):
It's been an honorand a pleasure.
Great to talk with you, Karen,and many blessings to you
and Covenant Eyes.
Well, thanks so muchand to our listeners,
thanks for tuning into this episode
of The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
We'll see you next time.
God bless. Take care.
Welcome back to TheCovenant Eyes Podcast.
It's Karen,I'm so glad to have you
here today.
We've got a great showand we have one of
our favorite guests returning todo an interview. Today.
We're going to talkabout marriage.
We're going to talkabout pornography,
impact on thatand how we can work
to strengthen our marriages,along with all sorts
of other topics.
(00:26):
Today's guest is DoctorCarol, an author,
speaker, personal coach.
She's a licensed OBGYN physicianand an ordained
Doctor of ministry.
Many people struggleto find help that they need
in the church, and Doctor Carolreally takes this to heart.
She has workedtirelessly to support
and to help people with brokenrelationships, issues around sex
(00:49):
and sexuality, mentalemotional problems,
and toxic religion.
So we are justreally excited to dive
into a conversationwith Doctor Carol today.
Welcome back to the podcast.
I'm thrilled.
Karen, I love Covenant Eyes.
I love all that you do.
And it's greatto be talking with you
here. Awesome.
Well, I knowthe last time we had you on,
(01:10):
you know, we talkeda little bit about
we had our new, program arisecoming out for women.
So that has goneexceptionally well.
And women all across the countryand even across the globe
are really findingsome freedom there.
But today's conversation,we're going to actually
kind of focus in on marriages.
And, you know, one of the thingsthat we hear quite frequently
(01:31):
at Covenant Eyes, as badas a couple,
is journey journeying throughpornography addiction.
And really going through that.
They really struggle withhow to rebuild
their relationships, post,discovery of pornography
in the relationship.
So I want to talk to youa little bit about,
from your experience,some of the ways
that you've been ableto help and coach people
(01:52):
through broken relationshipsthat came from pornography
or other sexual addictions.
Yeah, it is a big deal.
And because of howcommon struggles
with pornographyare for both men and women,
it impacts an awfullot of marriages.
I think one ofthe biggest things I hear
from people in a marriagewhere this is a factor,
(02:13):
is the sense of betrayalthey have that the spouse
who discovers that their spousehas been using pornography
feels likethey have been lied to,
and that they have beenbetrayed, like the, the
just the fidelity thatthey were expecting
(02:34):
they haven't had.
And they'll the trust is lost.
That might be anotherreally important way to say it.
When trust is broken,it's a rupture
in the relationship.
And neurobiologyand social sciences
tell us a lot about rupture,but they also tell us
a lot about repair.
(02:54):
And froma Christian perspective,
I think we canlook at the whole story
of redemption as ruptureand repair and relationships.
So this is right up God's alley.
It's something that those of uswho follow Jesus have
tremendous resourcesto bring to bear on.
First of all, findinghealing for individual heart
(03:15):
and then repairin the relationship
between people when that trusthas been broken.
I would also say thatfor the person
who has been using pornand has been trying
to hide it, it's oftennot out of malice.
But because they don'twant to hurt their spouse,
they want toprotect their spouse
(03:35):
from feeling badand feeling pain,
which frequently they do.
And I just want to say to both,husbands and wives,
regardless of who is or hasor is struggling with this,
honesty is kind.
Truth is kind.
Now you can givetruth in an unkind way,
(03:58):
but it is far kinderto be honest and work
through the implications of thatthan to stay in the closet
and keep things hidden.
That's such a foundational thingthat I think it's important
to start with.
Absolutely.
And I think you've got,book, Sexpectations,
(04:19):
if I got that right.
You have a book that kind oftalks through, you know, freedom
from wounds and mistakesand healing.
And I think you havea video course
now that goes with that.
Yes.
Is that a resourcethat can help people
who are on a journeyto try to find some healing
for their marriageor for themselves,
and then their marriage next?
(04:39):
Yes.
This particular resource,the book and the digital video
course expectations,is particularly about
starting with a person'sown heart, whether they are
the one who approachesthis from being wounded
or they arethe one approaching this
from struggling with badbehaviors, addictions,
whatever around sexuality.
(05:01):
What the book and the digitalcourse do is help a person
look at their story with honestyand compassion,
just like Jesus doeswhat brought them
to where they are,and bring Jesus
right into the middleof their story, and then
find healing and develop thethe capacity for intimacy
for those who are married.
(05:21):
Obviously, the first place,humanly speaking, to approach
that is with your spouse.
And when your heart has receiveda measure of healing,
whether you're the offenderor the offended.
And I even hateusing those terms because we've
all hurt peopleand we've all been hurt.
But wherever you fall in this,as you develop
(05:43):
measure of healingin your own heart,
then you becomemuch more capable of intimacy.
If you're marriedwith your spouse,
which is which is whatwe're talking about today.
And of course, you know,the pornography distortions
in your brain impactwhat you think of when you think
of intimacy with your spouse.
But intimacy ismuch more than sex.
(06:04):
And so we have to lookat the broader picture,
not only sexual activitywith my spouse,
but the mind and heart and soultaking the coverings off
all of you.
You can't experience intimacyjust by taking the coverings off
your body, your clothes off.
The coveringsalso come off your heart
and mind and soul.
If you're a trueto experience intimacy,
(06:26):
and that can be achallenging journey.
When pornographyhas been a factor in a marriage.
Absolutely.
That is so true.
And, you know, aswe're thinking about
married coupleswalking through this,
this healing journey together,you know, one of the things
that I think is really importantis that both parties
have support systemsbuilt around them, that,
(06:49):
you know, the spousethat's been wounded
as well as the personthat's struggling
with sex addictionor pornography addiction.
What what kind of, advice or,recommendations
do you have for peopleas they're on this journey,
as far as who to surroundthemselves with,
how to be tappedinto some sort of
community support?
The number one thingis find a friend.
(07:11):
If you don't havea group around,
you start with one.
I know that with manyof the Covenant Ties
programs, there's that there'sthe capability of connecting
with other people online,and that can be a
good place to start,whether it's that, whether it's
somebody at church,whether it's somebody
at your workplaceor that, you know,
start with just one.
(07:33):
Ideally, your goalis to find three
to 5 or 6 peoplethat you know them
and they know you.
You're up in eachother's business.
You ask the hard questions.
Accountability is a keypart of that.
It doesn't stop there.
But you do need somebody to knowwhat's going on with you
and to challenge you to be upin your business, and also
(07:57):
to encourage youto pray with you, to support you
when you are feeling hopeless,struggling again, and you
and you feel like you,you know, you messed up,
am I ever goingto get out of this?
Or, there's no wayI can ever be close
to my spouse againbecause they've
wounded me so much.
Whatever it is,you need somebody to hear you
(08:21):
to be as Christ to you,a human body
with eyes and skin and.
And that you can talkwith, ideally, that you can feel
and be in personwith that that's best.
And then a little broader.
A few peoplein the body of Christ,
that that is the singlehardest thing that I find
(08:45):
people struggle withwhen they are walking
this journey.
Whichever part of the,the equation
they personally are,to find a few people
to be honest with feelssuch an enormous
mountain to climb.
And so what I encourageis whether it's through,
you know, the covenantresources or something else,
(09:08):
prayerfully consider and then,I suggest just write
down on a piece of paperthe 1 or 2 or half a dozen
people who might be possible,and then reach out
to the first one and just say,can we chat? Okay.
And then if you've never donethis before,
you can start by saying,you know, God is stretching me.
(09:31):
There's stuff he's dealingwith me about,
and he's encouraging meto connect with someone
and people.
I'm wondering, might you beone of my people?
Could I tell you something?
And if they say yes, okay,you've got to start
and just start there.
I will tell whoever is listeningor watching.
(09:53):
It's very likely that the personyou approach will say,
oh really? Me too.
That's not a guarantee,but it's likely in our world
it's likelythey are struggling too.
And so just takethat step and start.
Absolutely.
And, you know, pornography useis something
that, you know, there'sso much shame involved in it
(10:15):
that people push it downand they isolate and they hide.
And so coming, you know, forwardand seeking that help
in that community and findingyour band of brothers
or band, the sisters.
It's hard, right?
Because pornography teaches usto be isolated and to just,
you know, stay in secretand to keep this hidden.
(10:36):
So then is a really hard stepfor a lot of people to take.
And I think you offeredsome really good practical ways
that they can do that.
And sometimes we have towe just have to step out
in faith with people as well.
What are yourrecommendations, though,
like when we're lookingfor those people
that can be trustedin our lives?
Like is there a criteriaor is there something
we should look forin those people?
(10:57):
Because obviouslywe can't trust everybody and not
everybody is going to bebeneficial and helpful.
And when we're justcoming forward,
we want to make surethat we have someone that safe
that we can trust.
So do you haveany recommendations of, like,
how to weed out peoplethat maybe aren't
the right fit to bein your inner circle
as you're going through thisgreat question.
And many peoplehave been wounded
(11:19):
in relationship,and maybe you've tried
to find somebodyfor your inner circle
and have been wounded in thatvery quest already.
So a couplethings that I would say,
look for somebody who,from everything you see
and experience with them,are able to be present
for others, thattheir world is not
just about themself,that they demonstrate they see
(11:43):
the other person,maybe it's not that
they have seen you,but you notice
that they are able to be presentto somebody else
rather than makingeverything about them.
Ideally, youmight have observed them
for a little while and seenthat they are serious
about their own walk with Jesus,that they are allowing him
(12:04):
to change them.
Yeah.
That can be really, really key.
And when you first approach themand just in whether you start
by asking to shareabout your porn use or not,
just your initial interactionswith them, you want to
get the sense that they arenot there primarily to fix you.
(12:30):
What you are looking foris somebody
to be present with you,like Jesus was.
Yeah, yeah.
That doesn't mean thatif you are in a bad place,
you stay thereor that that person,
wants you to stay there.
But you're not lookingfor somebody to fix you.
You're not looking for somebodyto be junior Holy Spirit.
(12:52):
And so just in the waythey carry themselves,
the way they talk,if if somebody is spouting
Bible verses,every other sentence,
it's probably notsomebody who's able
to be with you.
That doesn't mean thatthe Bible is not a key
part of our life with Godand our transformation journey,
but you want somebody whodemonstrates the capacity to see
(13:17):
that life is more than fact,that it's it's a journey
and and is able toto be present.
I think that's probablyone of the most important things
to look for.
That's really good.
And it's so hard nowadays to,to find people
that can be present,because we live
in such a strange worldwhere everything is
(13:39):
so instant gratificationand we're always online.
And, you know,most of our friendships
and communicationsare done on our cell phones and,
you know,social media platforms.
And so it definitely takesa little bit of effort and work.
But there are people out there.
Do you think the local churchis a great place to find people?
I mean, obviouslybeing connected
to the body of Christin a local church
(14:01):
body is going to bea great place to start as you're
looking for people to buildyour kind of
accountability circle.
It should be the ideal place.
I can guarantee toanybody who's watching
that there are other peoplein your church
who are struggling with porn.
I can guarantee that.
Men and women.
(14:21):
Yeah.
There are some churches,however, that are much more
friendly to peoplewho are walking
a journal of struggle,whether it's porn or
something else than others.
So if your church is one where,people are finding joy
and freedomin Christ in general,
(14:42):
then it's very likely that therewill be people in that church
who can hear your story.
And the present with you.
So it's an importantplace to look. I did,
have an experiencevery, very recently with a lady
who is walkingthrough her journey
of brokenness and her churchcomes across,
(15:05):
and even in her case,sadly, the pastor
that she has spoke with, well,you just need to try harder.
You just need to buck upand and do it.
That is not a helpful message.
And so there may be timeswhen your particular experience
of the body of Christ may not bethe safest place.
(15:27):
I say that with grief,with sadness, but in the broader
sense, absolutely.
So if your personal congregationdoesn't seem like it might be,
a safe place, it it is okayto prayerfully, you know,
look for some other.
I wish I didn't have to say thatbecause the body of Christ
(15:48):
should be the bestand safest place to find healing
and transformation and support.
For sure.
Yeah, but unfortunately,the church is filled
with humans, right?
And we are veryflawed and sinful.
And so unfortunately,that is the case.
But I thinka majority of churches,
you know, they do their best.
But you're right,there are circumstances
(16:09):
and we've heardthose stories as well
where there's actually beenchurch hurt.
You know, youyou try to get help and healing
in that place and, you know,there's betrayal
or trust is brokenor just not good advice,
like you just mentionedin that story.
And that's harmful.
And it's not helpfulat all in the journey.
Well, let me ask you a funI'm going to kind of pivot
a little bit.
So you're a licensedOBGYN physician and.
(16:32):
How.
How did you get tappedinto working with people
who are strugglingwith their relationships or sex
and sexuality, mentalemotional problems?
How did you get tapped intowanting to do that
type of work as well?
Because it seems like itit's totally different worlds.
But, you know,at the end of the day,
it's probablyvery much connected.
(16:53):
But I'd love to hearfrom you about that.
I often think God must chucklewhen he's he sees me.
And and considering my story,the OBGYN world and the world
of ministry and workthat I'm doing today
are not as separate as,you might think
(17:13):
because as an OBGYN,I was privileged
to work with womenand with couples in
some of the mostintimate aspects of their bodies
and their livesand their relationships.
I would hear thingsI will remember a woman
who was in her 40s and,she came in just just for a
simple examination.
But you could tellshe was, you know, she she was
(17:35):
having struggles.
And we talkedfor a couple of minutes
and she said, my husbandhasn't touched me in years.
Now, I don't know, in her case,if that was because
he was watching porn or not,but just those kinds
of tender moments.
Right?
It was about ten yearsinto my medical practice
when God justkind of jerked me up
(17:56):
and pointed me in a directionof getting ministry training.
I realized, you know by thenthat I couldn't heal anybody.
You know, the Great Physician,Jesus is the Healer,
and medicine can oftenand often is a ministry.
But he had something uniquefor me to do.
So I wentand also got my theology
and Doctor ministry training.
(18:16):
And then, when my husband and Iwere married and doing
a radio program, the segmentof our weekly show
that seemed to getthe most response
was about relationships.
And we started talkingabout the things
in our marriage.
And, you know, the things thatwe had learned
and just being helped topeople would call in.
(18:38):
And that seemed to getthe most response
when I started writing,it seemed like the things
I would writeabout relationships
got the most response.
And, it was a few years ago,I just wrote a couple articles
about sex between husbandsand wives,
and when it wasn't good, when itwhen it wasn't working well,
and the just huge responseto that compared to, you know,
(19:03):
the other things.
And so just startednarrowing in on that
and followingwhere God was leading.
And that has now becomea real focal point.
I believethat in a large measure,
that is because the whole areaof intimacy and sex,
they're related, but they'renot the same.
But that whole area gets so deepin our hearts and God
(19:24):
cares about the heart.
It's much more than behaviors.
I know you, a covenantis such a huge focus
because it's a big thing,and culture is about porn
and God cares about that.
But if there's anythingGod cares about more, it's
what is going on in the heart,one level deeper.
And that is where I feelGod has really just put his
(19:45):
finger on meand called me to speak into that
particular area.
And I see the kind of responsefrom people that is just it's
both sobering and sadand very gratifying as people
find healing and wholeness.
Absolutely.
That's amazing.
And it's amazing how God directsour journey in such unique ways.
(20:06):
But, you know, that's great.
Well, I mean, it's not a farstretch either.
I mean, 56 and this numberis actually like a decade old,
but 56% of marriages fall apartbecause of someone's
pornography use.
And that was the numberfrom a long time ago.
So we know that pornographyis certainly impacting
relationships and intimacy.
(20:26):
And there's just so much packedinto that.
So I just I think it's greathow God has really led
you on this journey.
And I think there isa lot of crossover,
from the workthat you were doing
as an OBGYN intonow helping people
with relationshipand sex and sexuality
and all the questionsthat surround that.
So I love that.
Well, let's talka little bit about,
(20:47):
your work specificallyand like what
your ministry reallyhas to offer for our listeners.
If they're looking for helpbecause you're kind of
the relationship expert,you have a ton of resources
to help people.
And I think if you lookaround society,
I think everybody wouldprobably agree that relationship
problems are a top concern.
And, you know, a lot ofthat's fueled from pornography
(21:10):
or from just brokennessand just all sorts
of hurts and hangups.
But relationships need helpin America, right?
So talk to us a little bitabout your ministry
and what you do to help people.
I don't know that thereis any area of life
that has a bigger impacton our sense of well-being
than the quality of our closestpersonal relationships.
(21:31):
If you're married, obviouslythat's your spouse.
If you want to be married, it'slooking for a spouse.
If you're unhappily single,then you know how just the the
the struggles there.
I'm.
I'm single againsince my husband passed away.
So, I've experienced both that,in our case, happy marriage
(21:53):
and also singleness and dealingwith relationships, is so key.
And I think God caresabout that deeply.
So as far as our ministry, yeah,there's a lot of free online
resourcesthat we make available.
A couple blog articles a week,about half of those have to do
(22:16):
with marriage directly.
The other half have to do withmay or may not
be marriage directly,but intimacy and the heart
and intimacy with God.
DrCarolMinistries.comis where you can find that hub
of of all such things.
We have a weekly podcastthat we call relation
(22:36):
ship prescriptions.
And it's intimacy,whether it's in marriage
or the need for single peopleto deal with their need
for intimacy.
How do you do thatif you're not married?
The differencebetween sex and intimacy
and intimacy with God,and we address
all of those things,those are frequent topics on the
on our relationshipPrescriptions podcast.
(22:59):
And then you mentionedour expectations, portion,
which is a big partof what we do,
the book expectations.
And then the digital course,you can find that at your
expectations.com.
Be sure and put the your there.
Because if you just searchfor expectations you're going
to go somewhereyou don't want to go.
So your sex dictationsand then yeah.
(23:21):
Karen, thank youfor asking about this
because we just in the last yearin our ministry have been doing
live in-person,intensive retreats
and that has, like, opened upa whole new world
that is more powerfulthan anything.
Yet there's somethingthat happens when a
small group of peopleare present in a safe place
(23:44):
to deal with the thingsthat maybe they haven't
spoken before, both thethings that may have
been done to them,and the things that they may
have done in response,where they've been wounded,
where to findhealing, experience
Jesus coming into themiddle of their story.
And that is somethingrelatively new,
that is just a beautifuland life transforming aspect.
(24:06):
And that's where we're puttinga lot of our energy right now.
So all such thingsDrCarolMinistries.com.
I love that, and I love thatyou're doing these in-person
intensives, because I thinkin a world where we're so
connected, quoteunquote, online,
we're so disconnectedand we need to get together
in safe places and really walkthrough that.
(24:27):
That's beautiful.
So this is a new thingthat you're doing.
How do people is about these,intensives on your website?
And they can find outmore about that,
because that certainlywill be appealing
to our audience. Yeah.
We are getting information up.
The reason we haven't made thatfront and center on our website
is because all the eventswe've had to date have been full
with just word of mouth.
(24:47):
But here's what.
I would tell your listeners.
We are expanding.
God is doingsome beautiful things
in the ministry.
We're expandingso we can do this more,
and we're going to behaving information
front and center soon.
But if you are listeningand you want to come
to one of thesein-person events,
use the contact pageand just say,
send me informationabout your events
(25:09):
and I will respond.
I'm the one who addressesthose contact page questions
personally, so just go toDrCarolMinistries.com,
the contact page,send me a question
and I'll respond and get youall those details.
That's awesome.
All right.
Well we'll be sure to put linksin the show notes.
So Doctor Carol, for our finaltopic today, I just want to dive
(25:30):
into the church because I know,you know, with your background,
you certainly have a heartfor the church
and for God's people,but the church is kind of
missing the boat a little bitsometimes when it comes
to addressing sexual brokennessand pornography.
You know,I see a lot of churches
doing the best they can.
But really,at the end of the day,
we need to bedoing so much more.
(25:51):
So I want to talk a little bitabout how we can get
churches more engagedand help them do a better job
of making the churcha safe place to learn
about these things,because otherwise
people are going online and,you know, learning about this
stuff and placeswe don't want them to.
And then there's our childrenwho are learning
because of social mediaand being attacked.
(26:12):
So let's talk a little bitabout the church.
What are your thoughts on likehow the church is doing
with these topicsand how they can
maybe do a little betterand what we can do
to help them? Yeah.
Well, I just got togive a shout out to Sam
Black there at Covenant Eyes.
His book that that's,you know, a
big focus of his work.
He's been on our podcastand just love the work
that you guys are doing there.
(26:34):
But I agree with you completely.
The majority of churchesare doing the best
they can in many ways.
And it's it'snot it's not cutting it.
One of the biggest thingsthat my heart feels about,
where the lack is in churchis the focus on behavior
(26:56):
that it's all about do'sand don'ts, behaviors
have consequences.
If you are exposedto porn as a child,
the message is your brainis going to see and picture
are going to mess you up.
If you are addictedto porn, it's going to
mess up your marriage and itmay or may not survive.
Behaviors have consequences,and if all we do is tell people
(27:20):
don't do this, do this,they're trying harder.
They're full of shame, they failand it doesn't work.
I believe that the messagethat people need to
hear in church isthese behaviors
have consequences.
But let's help you.
This is not aboutjust trying harder.
(27:42):
This is about creating bandsof sisters, bands of brothers,
ideally under the banner of KingJesus. That's right.
Where we can walk togetherexperiencing his transformation.
I think that needsto include stories
from the front.
I think it needsto include stories in kids
church, in youth group,not only about the bad stuff,
(28:05):
but about peoplewho have experienced
measures of healing.
They're not done yet.
Are any of us done?
But you're sharing storiesabout how Jesus can come in
and change your life,specifically
about sexual brokenness.
I think that is sucha big factor.
So making the point of it'smore than just trying harder.
(28:27):
How do we walk with peopleto let Jesus deeper
into the levels of their heartand address the needs that
nobody wakes up one dayand says, I'm going to
be addicted to porn?
Something happens.
It solves a problem.
We need to help peoplefind solutions to those problems
(28:47):
that they are going to pornand other illegitimate behaviors
for solving the problemin the sense of a quick fix
like junk food, empty calories,and it only kills them faster.
But that need for intimacy,the need for connection,
the need for understandingabout our bodies and sexuality
and relationships.
So having conversationsright from, you know,
(29:11):
kids, churchall the way through,
it needs to be just normalto talk about these things
in the body of Christ.
I, I waxed a little,hot there for a second
because it isan important thing,
and you can see I care about it.
Yeah, absolutely.
No, I love it.
Well, and it's funnybecause the Bible
does not shy away from sharingthe stories of. Your.
(29:35):
Sexual brokenness.
You know, peoplethroughout the Bible,
we see that all throughout.
And, you know, it's weirdthat we don't embrace
sharing the testimoniesand the things that God has done
for each of us more frequentlyin church, because those
testimoniescan be transformational
to someone else who's listeningto that story.
I know when I read the Bibleand I hear about the
(29:56):
brokenness of Davidand the things that he did
and how much he lovedGod, you know, and how much
his heart was after God, but yeta flawed, sinful man.
He was with sexual brokennessall over.
I mean, there are justso many things
that can be applied,and I just feel like
you're right.
We need to talk about thisfrom the front.
It needs to be embracedin youth groups.
(30:17):
So I'm excitedthat you have a passion
to really help our churches,you know, get
invigorated around this.
Just one quick thing.
You mentioned the Bible.
There's a lot of badsex in the Bible.
You know, I mean, it'sit's it's X-rated,
you know, I mean,and it's really, really bad.
And the good stuffis also there,
(30:38):
the Song of Solomon,right in the center
of the Bible,unadulterated goodness.
And so you can seethe whole picture.
That's part of whatwe as followers of Jesus need to
be talking about.
Absolutely. Yeah.
And the Bible doesn't shy away.
So why should we write?
I love that.
Well, Doctor Carol,as we bring today's
(30:58):
episode to a close,I just want to
leave our listeners with kind ofa message of hope
and encouragement.
So do you have somethingon your heart
that you would love to sharewith our listeners?
And, you know, just give themsome encouragement
in their journey,whatever side of the
equation they're on.
Regardless of which side ofthe equation you're on or what
your brandof sexual brokenness is,
(31:19):
what Jesus would sayis just come, if you feel addict
and ashamed and overwhelmedand hopeless that you can never
just come.
If you feel lonely and betrayedand isolated and wounded,
you may not feel likeyou can even take
another breath.
It hurts so deep.
(31:40):
Just comewhatever it is for you,
whether it's pornor something else.
Just come.
There is nothing that youhave experienced.
Nothing that's been done to you.
Nothing that you have donethat could make Jesus
love you any less.
And one of thefirst things I believe
Jesus would say isfind a friend.
(32:01):
Let's do this together.
Covenant ties can be a resource.
The body of Christ.
We talk about it.
Ask, pray.
Ask somebodyto come alongside you.
That's hard.
But do it anyway.
There is hope.
There are too many storiesout there of people
who have been.
(32:22):
I'm going to say itworse than you,
who were found healing and hopeand restoration.
If you need to borrow faith fromsome of the rest of us
for a bit, do that.
It can.
You can find it too.
Oh that's great, I love that.
Well, that is an excellent wayto close today's episode,
and I want to encourageall of our listeners
to check out DoctorCarol's website.
(32:44):
You will find links to all thedifferent resources
we talked about today.
And then don't forget,if you want more information
on her intensivesto fill out the Contact
Her button on her websiteand she will get you
all the informationabout those programs.
Doctor Carol, it is always a joyto have you on.
You bring so muchenergy and passion
for helping peopleand we just really
appreciate it.
So thanks for joining us today.
(33:05):
It's been an honorand a pleasure.
Great to talk with you, Karen,and many blessings to you
and Covenant Eyes.
Well, thanks so muchand to our listeners,
thanks for tuning into this episode
of The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
We'll see you next time.
God bless. Take care.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!