August 27, 2025 • 22 mins
đź”—Covenant Eyes: Women can find resources through our Arise program!
https://cvnteyes.co/3ZvW65U
_____________________
For years, the struggle with pornography has been viewed primarily as a men's issue, leaving countless women feeling isolated and ashamed. But the landscape is changing. Crystal Renaud Day, a pioneer in addressing women's struggles with pornography and sex addiction, joins The Covenant Eyes Podcast to shed light on this sensitive topic.
In this crucial conversation, Crystal discusses the "wholeness model" of recovery—a holistic approach that heals the body, mind, and spirit by addressing the "why" behind the behavior, not just the actions themselves. She shares eye-opening statistics about the rise of pornography use among Millennial and Gen Z women and explores how technology has shifted the nature of exposure and addiction.
LISTEN NOW TO LEARN:
💡 How Crystal’s ministry, She Recovery, is creating a "discipleship model" to train others to help women heal.
đź’ˇ The difference between focusing on behaviors ("the what") versus the root causes ("the why").
đź’ˇ Practical ways for women to navigate a hyper-digital world, safeguard their recovery, and use technology for redemption.
đź’ˇ How the church can better support women and why so many women still find help outside its walls.
A final word of encouragement, reminding listeners that those who look to Him for help will be radiant, with "no shadow of shame" to darken their faces.
If you or someone you know is struggling in silence, this episode is a powerful reminder that you are not alone and that true, shame-free healing is possible.
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
đź”— She Recovery: Find virtual coaching, counseling, and resources at https://SheRecovery.com
đź”—Book & Devotional: 90 Days to Wholeness is available on the She Recovery website and for free on the YouVersion Bible App.
CHAPTERS:
00:00 - Welcome back Crystal Renaud Day
00:59 - New: She Recovery Coaching CertificationÂ
02:18 - What is Holistic Healing? (Body, Mind, Spirit)Â
04:30 - How Technology Changed Porn Exposure for WomenÂ
05:27 - Shocking Stats: Millennial & Gen Z Women's Porn UseÂ
07:58 - Redeeming Technology for RecoveryÂ
11:05 - Practical Steps to Navigate The Internet SafelyÂ
12:58 - Is the Church Finally Addressing This for Women?Â
17:35 - How Porn is Affecting Christian MarriagesÂ
20:10 - A Final Word on Overcoming Shame (Psalm 34:5)Â
21:38 - How to Connect with She RecoveryÂ
#SheRecovery #PornAddiction #ChristianWomen #FaithBasedRecovery #CovenantEyes
Try Covenant Eyes for FREE today!
Use Promo Code: FreePodcast
© 2024 Covenant Eyes, All Rights Reserved
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Hey everybody, welcome backto The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
We're so gladto have you joining us.
We have got one of our veryfavorite guests joining us
for this conversation today.
She is a pioneer in addressingwomen's struggles
with pornographyand sex addiction.
Through her efforts She Recoveryand so much more,
she is a rock star.
Crystal, how are you?
(00:27):
And welcome back.
I'm doing well.
Thanks, Karen.
Thanks Rob for having me on.
Always love to be with you guys.
Absolutely, Rob, I know thatover the years, gosh, it's
been so many years.
We've had a lotof great conversations
with Crystal, and every timeshe just brings the heat
and brings the wisdom.
Oh, absolutely.
It's it's wonderfulto have you back today.
Yeah. Well.
Crystal.
(00:48):
What, whatwhat have you been up to lately?
I know that you are busy,always working on new projects
and new resources for women,and you have been actively,
doing coaching programsfor many, many years.
So talk to us a little bit aboutwhat you've been doing.
Well, as of most recently, weare just about
to launch our very firstlike She Recovery Recovery
(01:09):
Coaching certification program.
So it's our pilot that we arejust we're really trying
to get other people, trainedin the kind of work that we do,
so that they can start groupsin their churches
or help counselorsto be able to be have a little
extra credential, whatever thatmight look like.
Just to branch outbeyond just what we do,
(01:32):
but to have otherpeople doing what we do
in the same way, because wecan only reach so many people.
As far as helping women,across the world
and around the country.
And so that programis coming up, at the time of
this recording, we're aboutto launch it.
So hopefully there'smore information
available for that at theat this time as well.
(01:52):
That's awesome.
So you're really creatinga discipleship model
where you train up othersthat can take this torch
and move it forward.
Oh that's amazing.
I love that.
Yeah, thatthat is the idea behind
it is that we canwe have our team
and our team willhopefully keep growing.
But we we would love tojust be able to like you said,
disciple others to do this workin the way that we do
(02:13):
it, where we are, where antishame and wholeness
focused, and be ableto help women
to find the healingthat they need.
Yeah, and I think that'sone of your keys.
I mean, you often talk about,you know, just that
holistic healing, that body,mind and spirit all in one.
So how what does that look likewhen you're helping listeners?
(02:36):
What does what does that conceptlook like for them?
Yeah.
You know, when peoplefirst come to us or women
first come to us, you know,I think the
there's so much emphasison maybe the body perspective.
So body mind and spirit iswhat is kind
of the holistic approachwe take.
But there's so muchemphasis on the body.
I want to stop acting out.
(02:57):
I want to stop watching porn.
I want to stop thecompulsive masturbation.
And it's so muchfocused on the what
they're doing as opposed towhy they're doing it.
And so the holisticapproach to recovery
is helping youto navigate to the why
and heal the why,so that you don't
have to go back to thesebehaviors again, not just
(03:18):
these behaviors, but any newcoping behaviors
that may come out,because we know with addiction
that transference is a thing,that you could have
one addictionmaster it, get over it.
But really you're just onto something new.
And so a wholenessmodel is about helping you
to no longer have to havea coping behavior at all.
And so body, mind and spirit,it's working on, the brokenness
(03:42):
of your bodybecause it is broken.
If you're using compulsivemasturbation or you are,
just disordered your sexualityin general, like your body
is broken, but also, spirituallyyou're broken and emotionally
you're broken.
And usually the y componentis something emotional.
So you're using an emotionalavenue, pornography, whatever,
(04:03):
to heal, to healthat emotional issue.
But it's not going to heal you.
So you're, you're trying to fixthat emotional problem
with a, with somethingthey can't possibly fix it.
So, we like to work on theY in terms of that.
And of course we arefrom a faith based perspective.
So the spiritualcomponent obviously,
is to have a surrenderedheart to Christ
and really give him youryour whole self surrendering
(04:28):
fully to him so that he can dothe healing work
in your life as well.
So I love thatwholeness model crystal.
That's beautiful and I thinkit's so needed.
You've been doing this workfor quite some time,
and I know thatyou have worked with
so many womenacross all demographics,
all age groups.
Just talk to us a little bitabout what you're seeing
(04:49):
as far as changes in how womenare struggling.
Maybe with, you know, technologynow playing a bigger factor
in our struggles,whereas maybe 20,
you know, you've beenI don't think
you've been doing this 20 years.
You're you're not that.
You're not even.
That age.
You're way young.
But but you know,like a decade ago perhaps
where, you know, technologywas just kind of coming of age
(05:11):
and things were alittle different.
What have you seen?
Yeah.
Well, to put thatin perspective, I am 40.
I turned 40 last year.
You don't look at.
And so, my exposureto pornography was magazine.
So that's, that's, you know,what's a magazine like the way
that a magazine is anymore?
It's paper like magazines.
And so, but for so manyand looking at looking
(05:32):
at the Barna stats,you know, the Barna
data from last year talksabout the fact that,
you know, let's say40% of Christian women
say they're viewing porn.
But to break that downinto younger
generations, millennials was 62%and Gen Z was 64% of women.
And so I'm an elder millennial.
(05:53):
I rather be a Gen X, honestly,because they were
so much cooler.
But I'm an elder millennial.
But I but so for me, findingit was started with the magazine
but then progressedto technology, where I,
you know, nowthe younger millennials
or the Gen Z years,they were just
exposed with technology.
(06:14):
And so I think whenyou're talking about technology
and the rise of technology,we have these phones and tablets
and gaming consolesand all these things
that are in front of usall the time.
Social media, the,the risk of exposure
is so much higherbecause you're thinking
about this in terms of,like the likelihood
that I would be exposedat ten years old with a magazine
was actually fairly lowlike that, maybe from a
(06:37):
from a uncle or a grandparent.
But my brother,I had older brothers,
so that was a little bit of ahave a higher risk factor
to be exposed with a magazine.
But to be exposed throughtechnology is like easy.
It's so easy.
Just ads popping up,miss typing something
and a Google search,you know, whatever.
Like it's going to if you can bebombarded by it.
(06:58):
And so for the womenthat come to us, we have a wide
range of ages that come to us.
We have women in their 70sand then women in who are teens,
who are doing ourcoaching stuff.
And so we have the wide range.
But I would saywe are seeing more
and more of that millennial GenZ kind of.
We just did an intensive group,over the last 90 days,
(07:20):
and the youngest was 21and the oldest was in her 50s.
But the brunt were in that,you know, 35 to 45 that
that millennial age.
And they were all talkingabout how they were exposed
to pornographythrough the internet,
like pretty much all of them.
And so with the exceptionof the older we all, this one
(07:41):
who was, you know, she washad sexual abuse
in her background and with more,paper related.
That's the start.
But that younger generationthat mine and younger
is technology.
And you guys are seeingthat accompanied eyes for sure
to families beingrocked by by this.
And just and sowe do see that a lot.
I think technology playsa huge role in it.
(08:05):
In terms of recovery.
You know, I started She Recoveryat that time.
It was Dirty Girls Ministries.
Out of a desire to redeemtechnology,
to redeem the internet.
Because even for me, even thoughI was exposed to porn,
you know, through a magazine,and it quickly became
dial up internet and theregular internet, and I was
(08:26):
using it online for, for years.
And so for me, it was like,how do I take this,
this, this space,this place is for so many women
is a danger zone.
Even being onlinecan be triggering to women
who are trying to enter,trying to be in recovery.
How do I take this triggerin place and redeem it?
(08:47):
And so that's whyall of our services are virtual,
so that you can go onlineand know that you can
get a resourcethat's going to help
you and not hurt you.
Most people don't knowhow to measure whether porn
is a problem.
Well, now you can.
Hi, I'm Mike Stone, producer ofThe Covenant Eyes Podcast.
At Covenant Eyes,we have created a short,
(09:08):
free and confidential assessmentcalled the Pause Test.
That's porn addictionuse severity.
It's not about judgment,it's about understanding.
So in just a few minutes,you'll get clarity
on where you standand what your next step
could be.
So take the free testnow at cvnteyes.co/test.
(09:35):
That's cvnteyes.co/test.
Super short super simple.
Now you've got nothing to loseand everything to gain.
Now back to the show.
That's so good.
I love the redemptionof technology part.
(09:55):
That's I think that'sso important.
And we we have the samemission here in Covenant Eyes.
Of course.
You know, I think it'sit's fascinating too,
because the waythat you integrate
using technologyto connect to women
all over the country,maybe even all
across the globe, I'mnot sure if you're
expanding in that realm,but yeah, I just think
(10:15):
it's amazing that you're ableto bring them together,
because no matter where we arein the country or what
our backgrounds are,our struggles
and our exposures are seeminglyrelatively similar.
I mean, we are, you know,especially if you're younger
than, you know, 45,you are seeing this stuff
pushed into your facenonstop in technology.
How are you teachingpeople to navigate?
(10:36):
Because, I mean,we have to work.
We you know, a lot of ushave to work.
A lot of us have to go onlinefor our jobs.
And, you know, we just have tolive our lives.
We need to stay connected.
How are you teaching your womento navigate that carefully
and with integrity?
Because it can be really hard.
Yeah.
You know, obviously we werecommend Covenant Eyes,
(10:57):
as pretty much exclusivelyin terms of IT,
accountability software.
And for those whoneed filtering,
that's there as well.
But, I think for us it'syou have to learn how to
live in the world,but not be of the world.
We talk about that a lot inChristian circles.
And so we have to kind ofbe a part of the internet
without beingin the internet, like,
(11:18):
or be the internet or notbeing a part of the internet.
And so it's kind of similarwhere you just really have to be
mindful of the,what you're allowing in.
And so that can be like,this is Instagram
the best place for youin early recovery?
Because while pawn's not allowedon Instagram, as far as rules,
(11:41):
it's still there.
There's still plenty of contentthat is triggering
and inappropriate.
And so it's asking yourself,you know, you can't live
in a bubble because we allhave to work and live
and be a part of the culture.
But we get we don'thave to be just like,
inundated with by it.
And so for them, it'sa lot of what steps can you take
(12:03):
to safeguard yourself.
And so for earlyin early recovery,
it might be that you're not onsocial media.
It might be that you are.
You're using coveted eyesfor the rest
of what you're doing.
Screen accountability.
Making sure you have a supportsystem in place because
you can't do it by yourself.
So, so, so you can try to,to seek to have recovery
(12:25):
by yourself,but who is really going
to hold you accountableif you were able to hold
yourself accountableor you would have by now.
And so, being able to be so biga part of our groups
in our community,you have kind of
a built in system to have peopleyou can reach out to
when you're struggling,but also who might
get your report coming at eyesand be able to reach out
to you and say, hey, I got this.
Are you struggling right now?
(12:45):
Like, what do youwhat's going on?
But and so forthem, it's going to be
navigating technologyin, in whatever
kind of whatever,whatever boundaries they need
and wherever they arein their recovery.
Another aspect wasit was so many women
that we've talkedwith over the years,
that heightened senseof isolation and, and a shame
(13:07):
because thinking thatthis is a men's issue
that I'm struggling with, in,in, in the church,
we have been slow to really kindof recognize the struggle that,
that so many womenare going through.
Do you feel that's beginningto change a little bit?
Is that improving orwhere is that issue right now?
For a lot of women?
It's that I was listening toyou ask a question.
(13:29):
I'm thinking about, you know,how long I've been doing
podcasts, interviews,or how long has been
radio interviews and peopleasking me that,
that same question.
And it seems likeevery time I mass,
it's like, well, the churchcould do more, the church
could do better.
And I still feel that way.
You know, I think aboutthe demographics of women
who come to us as She Recoveryand let's say, you know, 95% of
(13:52):
them are Christian.
They are finding usnot from the church.
They're not learning about usfrom the church.
They're learning about usfrom social media.
A Google search.
They're online and they'relooking for help.
Maybe a counselorknows about us.
We get a lot of referralsfrom counseling
agencies as well,which is great.
But they're not being told.
(14:14):
I heard about it from my church.
And so I'm not sayingthat the church
is doing advertising us,but at the same time,
they need to be not advertising,but talking about pornography.
I talking about sex, not allfrom the male perspective,
but that this is anissue of both men and women.
(14:36):
I could see I justanswer your question.
I think I do see someimprovement in that.
I know I've seen somelike in our
website, demographics,like our, our stats.
I we'll see some, some linksfrom churches.
So some churches are kindof having a resource page
and they're kind ofshowing options
of how to get help.
Covenant Eyes on a lot ofchurch sites.
(14:57):
I've seen that.
And then I'm also seeingevery once in a while, you know,
a lady will come to us and say,my church wants to sponsor
my coaching or wants to sponsormy counseling or wants
to sponsor my membership.
And so that is, I'm not sureif it's the church that is
instigating thator that person's
just asking for help.
(15:17):
And so therethe church is willing
to provide thatresource for them.
But so in that wayI am seeing improvement.
But of course, there's, there'smuch, much, much room
for improvement.
You know, that's what Ias a whole.
Yeah.
I hope someday wehave you on the podcast.
And actually the conversationis different.
You have a completely new answerfor us.
Like, you know, the churches aredoing so much, so much better.
(15:41):
Yeah.
We can't even keep up thatlike we are helping
so many women.
I, I mean, that is reallyseriously though,
that is our prayerbecause, I mean, it is
it is discouragingsometimes to just know
that, you know, you jokedabout advertising these programs
and it's like, but, you know,I mean, we see like that
in there.
No downfall at all.
But Dave Ramsey's, you know, aFinancial Peace University.
(16:03):
They promote those things.
These are programsthat actually help
change lives as well.
And so I think churchescan embrace the idea of promote
in your organizationin that way.
Because really it'snot something that's not
you know, I look to my pastorfor ideas on good books to read,
or if he mentions a filmthat he saw that he thought
was really a qualityChristian film, I will,
(16:25):
I will watch that.
So I think there is a rolethat the church can
promote programs.
I mean, I advertise,you know, no, but you know,
definitely havingresource pages, I love that.
So it's good to hear thatthere are some churches
doing that.
If a church is listeningor a church leader,
or maybe justa leader is listening
that wants to engagewith connecting you to their
their church or theirministry programs,
(16:47):
how could they reach out to you?
Crystal I mean, honestly,the easiest way is
just through our websiteas She Recovery.com,
we can send you some resources.
So if you're wantinglike brochures
or business cards,something more tangible
that you can hand out, we can behappy to send those to you.
But ultimately,you know, just a link,
you know, a QR code on your,on your big screen.
(17:07):
Like, that's enoughjust to say these are,
these are resourcesthat are available and,
check them out as, as the,as you can, as you need.
So absolutely,that's a great idea.
And you know, as you know,pornography is completely
devastating marriages.
And now that there are so manyChristian women struggling
with pornography,we are seeing marriages
(17:27):
where both partieshave pornography
in their historyor in the present.
How is that changingthe dynamic of marriages
for young people?
Are you seeing thatin your work,
working with women?
Yeah, I was just talkingabout this recently that,
we've always beenreally predominantly
single women as She Recovery,but I, I'm seeing more
(17:49):
and more marriedwomen coming forward.
If initially, I thinkI'm not sure if it's an increase
so much as it's maybe aagain, a new comfort, maybe
that's coming forward.
Because I knowbefore it felt like
women were coming to usbecause they were
there was a lot of shameassociated with just,
(18:09):
because so much ofthe Christian mind or Christian
culture is like,well, I am married now,
I shouldn't have a porn problem.
Whereas likewhen you're single, it's
almost an excuse, like there'sa little bit of like that
kind of that tension.
And so I think a lot ofmarried women have not come
forward one, because they thinkthey feel like even more shame
because they are marriedand like, so I'm married now.
(18:30):
I shouldn't be watching porn.
They should be takingcare of my now.
Whereas the other side of thatI think might be joint
baking accounts and justwanting to expose themselves
for getting the supportthat they need, their husband
maybe not know abouttheir struggle.
And so they're not wantingto kind of expose what
they're doing financially.
And so but I think we'reseeing a little bit
(18:51):
more bravery,but more bravery, maybe,
but also becausethere is the tension
or the dynamic of bothare struggling.
Maybe there's a little bitmore safety in the now.
My husband has confessed.
So now I can confesslike it's a it's
kind of a duality there.
So we're seeing that as well.
(19:12):
I do see within our practice,you know, a lot of couples
coming in now, which could beand I'm not privy
to those sessions,for as far as the ones
who were getting the cut ofthe couples coaching.
But what I felt fromfrom what I can, guess it's
a lot of mediation.
It's a lot of conversationsabout why she's struggling,
(19:32):
how he can support her.
If he's struggling,how can she support
him, things like that.
And so I guess so to answeryour question more briefly, yes,
I am seeing, more wivesand I don't know, again,
I don't know the reasonor the why
other than the increasefor women watching porn.
Is probably coming aspart of that.
(19:54):
Interesting.
Yeah.
Well, Crystal,as we kind of begin
to wrap up here today,do you have any final words
that you would love to say tomaybe some listeners
that are out there right nowthat are struggling
that, you know, I just kind ofin silence and shame.
What would you say to them?
Yeah, I'm actually goingto share a scripture if I can.
(20:15):
Psalm 34 five is thosewho look for him for help
will be radiant with joy.
No shadow of shamewill darken their faces.
And my whole approachhas always been again
the anti shame.
Like if you're struggling,you I know what you're feeling
because I have I have feltthat feeling.
(20:35):
I know exactly what that feelingfeels like.
And I know also that shame isso unhelpful.
Shame is goingto keep you stuck.
It's goingto keep you in bondage
to your addictionand your struggle.
And so if you feel likeyou're alone, you're not alone.
We talked about the statsalready from Barna Group.
Like millions of womenare struggling.
(20:57):
You're just one of millionswomen who are struggling.
But you can be one of hopefullymillions of women
who can be set free,who can find wholeness,
who can find healing.
All you really haveto do is seek it,
and find resourcesthat are going to be anti shame.
We're going to lift you up,but also not hold you
(21:17):
where you are, but to imploreyou and empower you to heal.
And so yeah.
And we long to be a part of thatif we can.
That's awesomeCrystal we're going to
bring today'sepisode to a close,
but we want to make surethat our listeners know
how to get in touchwith your ministry.
I know you mentionedyour website, earlier.
And then are thereany additional resources?
I know you have books.
(21:38):
Things like thatthat you can also point
our listeners to in theclosing statements.
Yeah.
So She Recovery.comis where you can pretty much
find everythingthat we have to offer,
including our virtualcoaching and counseling
services.
But also, you know, bookslike Diaries to Wholeness
is available on therethat I wrote a 90 day devotional
that will walk youthrough the first
90 days of recovery,or 90 days again, depending on
(22:00):
where you are in your recoveryjourney.
It's also availablefor free on YouVersion,
so there's no cost obligation.
You can just hop on and do thatand, go with go through recovery
with faith based in mind.
Crystal, again,thank you so much
for joining us.
And to our listeners, thank youfor listening again today.
Please share and like this.
And, look forwardto seeing you again
(22:21):
in the next episode.
Thanks. Bye bye.
Hey everybody, welcome backto The Covenant Eyes Podcast.
We're so gladto have you joining us.
We have got one of our veryfavorite guests joining us
for this conversation today.
She is a pioneer in addressingwomen's struggles
with pornographyand sex addiction.
Through her efforts She Recoveryand so much more,
she is a rock star.
Crystal, how are you?
(00:27):
And welcome back.
I'm doing well.
Thanks, Karen.
Thanks Rob for having me on.
Always love to be with you guys.
Absolutely, Rob, I know thatover the years, gosh, it's
been so many years.
We've had a lotof great conversations
with Crystal, and every timeshe just brings the heat
and brings the wisdom.
Oh, absolutely.
It's it's wonderfulto have you back today.
Yeah. Well.
Crystal.
(00:48):
What, whatwhat have you been up to lately?
I know that you are busy,always working on new projects
and new resources for women,and you have been actively,
doing coaching programsfor many, many years.
So talk to us a little bit aboutwhat you've been doing.
Well, as of most recently, weare just about
to launch our very firstlike She Recovery Recovery
(01:09):
Coaching certification program.
So it's our pilot that we arejust we're really trying
to get other people, trainedin the kind of work that we do,
so that they can start groupsin their churches
or help counselorsto be able to be have a little
extra credential, whatever thatmight look like.
Just to branch outbeyond just what we do,
(01:32):
but to have otherpeople doing what we do
in the same way, because wecan only reach so many people.
As far as helping women,across the world
and around the country.
And so that programis coming up, at the time of
this recording, we're aboutto launch it.
So hopefully there'smore information
available for that at theat this time as well.
(01:52):
That's awesome.
So you're really creatinga discipleship model
where you train up othersthat can take this torch
and move it forward.
Oh that's amazing.
I love that.
Yeah, thatthat is the idea behind
it is that we canwe have our team
and our team willhopefully keep growing.
But we we would love tojust be able to like you said,
disciple others to do this workin the way that we do
(02:13):
it, where we are, where antishame and wholeness
focused, and be ableto help women
to find the healingthat they need.
Yeah, and I think that'sone of your keys.
I mean, you often talk about,you know, just that
holistic healing, that body,mind and spirit all in one.
So how what does that look likewhen you're helping listeners?
(02:36):
What does what does that conceptlook like for them?
Yeah.
You know, when peoplefirst come to us or women
first come to us, you know,I think the
there's so much emphasison maybe the body perspective.
So body mind and spirit iswhat is kind
of the holistic approachwe take.
But there's so muchemphasis on the body.
I want to stop acting out.
(02:57):
I want to stop watching porn.
I want to stop thecompulsive masturbation.
And it's so muchfocused on the what
they're doing as opposed towhy they're doing it.
And so the holisticapproach to recovery
is helping youto navigate to the why
and heal the why,so that you don't
have to go back to thesebehaviors again, not just
(03:18):
these behaviors, but any newcoping behaviors
that may come out,because we know with addiction
that transference is a thing,that you could have
one addictionmaster it, get over it.
But really you're just onto something new.
And so a wholenessmodel is about helping you
to no longer have to havea coping behavior at all.
And so body, mind and spirit,it's working on, the brokenness
(03:42):
of your bodybecause it is broken.
If you're using compulsivemasturbation or you are,
just disordered your sexualityin general, like your body
is broken, but also, spirituallyyou're broken and emotionally
you're broken.
And usually the y componentis something emotional.
So you're using an emotionalavenue, pornography, whatever,
(04:03):
to heal, to healthat emotional issue.
But it's not going to heal you.
So you're, you're trying to fixthat emotional problem
with a, with somethingthey can't possibly fix it.
So, we like to work on theY in terms of that.
And of course we arefrom a faith based perspective.
So the spiritualcomponent obviously,
is to have a surrenderedheart to Christ
and really give him youryour whole self surrendering
(04:28):
fully to him so that he can dothe healing work
in your life as well.
So I love thatwholeness model crystal.
That's beautiful and I thinkit's so needed.
You've been doing this workfor quite some time,
and I know thatyou have worked with
so many womenacross all demographics,
all age groups.
Just talk to us a little bitabout what you're seeing
(04:49):
as far as changes in how womenare struggling.
Maybe with, you know, technologynow playing a bigger factor
in our struggles,whereas maybe 20,
you know, you've beenI don't think
you've been doing this 20 years.
You're you're not that.
You're not even.
That age.
You're way young.
But but you know,like a decade ago perhaps
where, you know, technologywas just kind of coming of age
(05:11):
and things were alittle different.
What have you seen?
Yeah.
Well, to put thatin perspective, I am 40.
I turned 40 last year.
You don't look at.
And so, my exposureto pornography was magazine.
So that's, that's, you know,what's a magazine like the way
that a magazine is anymore?
It's paper like magazines.
And so, but for so manyand looking at looking
(05:32):
at the Barna stats,you know, the Barna
data from last year talksabout the fact that,
you know, let's say40% of Christian women
say they're viewing porn.
But to break that downinto younger
generations, millennials was 62%and Gen Z was 64% of women.
And so I'm an elder millennial.
(05:53):
I rather be a Gen X, honestly,because they were
so much cooler.
But I'm an elder millennial.
But I but so for me, findingit was started with the magazine
but then progressedto technology, where I,
you know, nowthe younger millennials
or the Gen Z years,they were just
exposed with technology.
(06:14):
And so I think whenyou're talking about technology
and the rise of technology,we have these phones and tablets
and gaming consolesand all these things
that are in front of usall the time.
Social media, the,the risk of exposure
is so much higherbecause you're thinking
about this in terms of,like the likelihood
that I would be exposedat ten years old with a magazine
was actually fairly lowlike that, maybe from a
(06:37):
from a uncle or a grandparent.
But my brother,I had older brothers,
so that was a little bit of ahave a higher risk factor
to be exposed with a magazine.
But to be exposed throughtechnology is like easy.
It's so easy.
Just ads popping up,miss typing something
and a Google search,you know, whatever.
Like it's going to if you can bebombarded by it.
(06:58):
And so for the womenthat come to us, we have a wide
range of ages that come to us.
We have women in their 70sand then women in who are teens,
who are doing ourcoaching stuff.
And so we have the wide range.
But I would saywe are seeing more
and more of that millennial GenZ kind of.
We just did an intensive group,over the last 90 days,
(07:20):
and the youngest was 21and the oldest was in her 50s.
But the brunt were in that,you know, 35 to 45 that
that millennial age.
And they were all talkingabout how they were exposed
to pornographythrough the internet,
like pretty much all of them.
And so with the exceptionof the older we all, this one
(07:41):
who was, you know, she washad sexual abuse
in her background and with more,paper related.
That's the start.
But that younger generationthat mine and younger
is technology.
And you guys are seeingthat accompanied eyes for sure
to families beingrocked by by this.
And just and sowe do see that a lot.
I think technology playsa huge role in it.
(08:05):
In terms of recovery.
You know, I started She Recoveryat that time.
It was Dirty Girls Ministries.
Out of a desire to redeemtechnology,
to redeem the internet.
Because even for me, even thoughI was exposed to porn,
you know, through a magazine,and it quickly became
dial up internet and theregular internet, and I was
(08:26):
using it online for, for years.
And so for me, it was like,how do I take this,
this, this space,this place is for so many women
is a danger zone.
Even being onlinecan be triggering to women
who are trying to enter,trying to be in recovery.
How do I take this triggerin place and redeem it?
(08:47):
And so that's whyall of our services are virtual,
so that you can go onlineand know that you can
get a resourcethat's going to help
you and not hurt you.
Most people don't knowhow to measure whether porn
is a problem.
Well, now you can.
Hi, I'm Mike Stone, producer ofThe Covenant Eyes Podcast.
At Covenant Eyes,we have created a short,
(09:08):
free and confidential assessmentcalled the Pause Test.
That's porn addictionuse severity.
It's not about judgment,it's about understanding.
So in just a few minutes,you'll get clarity
on where you standand what your next step
could be.
So take the free testnow at cvnteyes.co/test.
(09:35):
That's cvnteyes.co/test.
Super short super simple.
Now you've got nothing to loseand everything to gain.
Now back to the show.
That's so good.
I love the redemptionof technology part.
(09:55):
That's I think that'sso important.
And we we have the samemission here in Covenant Eyes.
Of course.
You know, I think it'sit's fascinating too,
because the waythat you integrate
using technologyto connect to women
all over the country,maybe even all
across the globe, I'mnot sure if you're
expanding in that realm,but yeah, I just think
(10:15):
it's amazing that you're ableto bring them together,
because no matter where we arein the country or what
our backgrounds are,our struggles
and our exposures are seeminglyrelatively similar.
I mean, we are, you know,especially if you're younger
than, you know, 45,you are seeing this stuff
pushed into your facenonstop in technology.
How are you teachingpeople to navigate?
(10:36):
Because, I mean,we have to work.
We you know, a lot of ushave to work.
A lot of us have to go onlinefor our jobs.
And, you know, we just have tolive our lives.
We need to stay connected.
How are you teaching your womento navigate that carefully
and with integrity?
Because it can be really hard.
Yeah.
You know, obviously we werecommend Covenant Eyes,
(10:57):
as pretty much exclusivelyin terms of IT,
accountability software.
And for those whoneed filtering,
that's there as well.
But, I think for us it'syou have to learn how to
live in the world,but not be of the world.
We talk about that a lot inChristian circles.
And so we have to kind ofbe a part of the internet
without beingin the internet, like,
(11:18):
or be the internet or notbeing a part of the internet.
And so it's kind of similarwhere you just really have to be
mindful of the,what you're allowing in.
And so that can be like,this is Instagram
the best place for youin early recovery?
Because while pawn's not allowedon Instagram, as far as rules,
(11:41):
it's still there.
There's still plenty of contentthat is triggering
and inappropriate.
And so it's asking yourself,you know, you can't live
in a bubble because we allhave to work and live
and be a part of the culture.
But we get we don'thave to be just like,
inundated with by it.
And so for them, it'sa lot of what steps can you take
(12:03):
to safeguard yourself.
And so for earlyin early recovery,
it might be that you're not onsocial media.
It might be that you are.
You're using coveted eyesfor the rest
of what you're doing.
Screen accountability.
Making sure you have a supportsystem in place because
you can't do it by yourself.
So, so, so you can try to,to seek to have recovery
(12:25):
by yourself,but who is really going
to hold you accountableif you were able to hold
yourself accountableor you would have by now.
And so, being able to be so biga part of our groups
in our community,you have kind of
a built in system to have peopleyou can reach out to
when you're struggling,but also who might
get your report coming at eyesand be able to reach out
to you and say, hey, I got this.
Are you struggling right now?
(12:45):
Like, what do youwhat's going on?
But and so forthem, it's going to be
navigating technologyin, in whatever
kind of whatever,whatever boundaries they need
and wherever they arein their recovery.
Another aspect wasit was so many women
that we've talkedwith over the years,
that heightened senseof isolation and, and a shame
(13:07):
because thinking thatthis is a men's issue
that I'm struggling with, in,in, in the church,
we have been slow to really kindof recognize the struggle that,
that so many womenare going through.
Do you feel that's beginningto change a little bit?
Is that improving orwhere is that issue right now?
For a lot of women?
It's that I was listening toyou ask a question.
(13:29):
I'm thinking about, you know,how long I've been doing
podcasts, interviews,or how long has been
radio interviews and peopleasking me that,
that same question.
And it seems likeevery time I mass,
it's like, well, the churchcould do more, the church
could do better.
And I still feel that way.
You know, I think aboutthe demographics of women
who come to us as She Recoveryand let's say, you know, 95% of
(13:52):
them are Christian.
They are finding usnot from the church.
They're not learning about usfrom the church.
They're learning about usfrom social media.
A Google search.
They're online and they'relooking for help.
Maybe a counselorknows about us.
We get a lot of referralsfrom counseling
agencies as well,which is great.
But they're not being told.
(14:14):
I heard about it from my church.
And so I'm not sayingthat the church
is doing advertising us,but at the same time,
they need to be not advertising,but talking about pornography.
I talking about sex, not allfrom the male perspective,
but that this is anissue of both men and women.
(14:36):
I could see I justanswer your question.
I think I do see someimprovement in that.
I know I've seen somelike in our
website, demographics,like our, our stats.
I we'll see some, some linksfrom churches.
So some churches are kindof having a resource page
and they're kind ofshowing options
of how to get help.
Covenant Eyes on a lot ofchurch sites.
(14:57):
I've seen that.
And then I'm also seeingevery once in a while, you know,
a lady will come to us and say,my church wants to sponsor
my coaching or wants to sponsormy counseling or wants
to sponsor my membership.
And so that is, I'm not sureif it's the church that is
instigating thator that person's
just asking for help.
(15:17):
And so therethe church is willing
to provide thatresource for them.
But so in that wayI am seeing improvement.
But of course, there's, there'smuch, much, much room
for improvement.
You know, that's what Ias a whole.
Yeah.
I hope someday wehave you on the podcast.
And actually the conversationis different.
You have a completely new answerfor us.
Like, you know, the churches aredoing so much, so much better.
(15:41):
Yeah.
We can't even keep up thatlike we are helping
so many women.
I, I mean, that is reallyseriously though,
that is our prayerbecause, I mean, it is
it is discouragingsometimes to just know
that, you know, you jokedabout advertising these programs
and it's like, but, you know,I mean, we see like that
in there.
No downfall at all.
But Dave Ramsey's, you know, aFinancial Peace University.
(16:03):
They promote those things.
These are programsthat actually help
change lives as well.
And so I think churchescan embrace the idea of promote
in your organizationin that way.
Because really it'snot something that's not
you know, I look to my pastorfor ideas on good books to read,
or if he mentions a filmthat he saw that he thought
was really a qualityChristian film, I will,
(16:25):
I will watch that.
So I think there is a rolethat the church can
promote programs.
I mean, I advertise,you know, no, but you know,
definitely havingresource pages, I love that.
So it's good to hear thatthere are some churches
doing that.
If a church is listeningor a church leader,
or maybe justa leader is listening
that wants to engagewith connecting you to their
their church or theirministry programs,
(16:47):
how could they reach out to you?
Crystal I mean, honestly,the easiest way is
just through our websiteas She Recovery.com,
we can send you some resources.
So if you're wantinglike brochures
or business cards,something more tangible
that you can hand out, we can behappy to send those to you.
But ultimately,you know, just a link,
you know, a QR code on your,on your big screen.
(17:07):
Like, that's enoughjust to say these are,
these are resourcesthat are available and,
check them out as, as the,as you can, as you need.
So absolutely,that's a great idea.
And you know, as you know,pornography is completely
devastating marriages.
And now that there are so manyChristian women struggling
with pornography,we are seeing marriages
(17:27):
where both partieshave pornography
in their historyor in the present.
How is that changingthe dynamic of marriages
for young people?
Are you seeing thatin your work,
working with women?
Yeah, I was just talkingabout this recently that,
we've always beenreally predominantly
single women as She Recovery,but I, I'm seeing more
(17:49):
and more marriedwomen coming forward.
If initially, I thinkI'm not sure if it's an increase
so much as it's maybe aagain, a new comfort, maybe
that's coming forward.
Because I knowbefore it felt like
women were coming to usbecause they were
there was a lot of shameassociated with just,
(18:09):
because so much ofthe Christian mind or Christian
culture is like,well, I am married now,
I shouldn't have a porn problem.
Whereas likewhen you're single, it's
almost an excuse, like there'sa little bit of like that
kind of that tension.
And so I think a lot ofmarried women have not come
forward one, because they thinkthey feel like even more shame
because they are marriedand like, so I'm married now.
(18:30):
I shouldn't be watching porn.
They should be takingcare of my now.
Whereas the other side of thatI think might be joint
baking accounts and justwanting to expose themselves
for getting the supportthat they need, their husband
maybe not know abouttheir struggle.
And so they're not wantingto kind of expose what
they're doing financially.
And so but I think we'reseeing a little bit
(18:51):
more bravery,but more bravery, maybe,
but also becausethere is the tension
or the dynamic of bothare struggling.
Maybe there's a little bitmore safety in the now.
My husband has confessed.
So now I can confesslike it's a it's
kind of a duality there.
So we're seeing that as well.
(19:12):
I do see within our practice,you know, a lot of couples
coming in now, which could beand I'm not privy
to those sessions,for as far as the ones
who were getting the cut ofthe couples coaching.
But what I felt fromfrom what I can, guess it's
a lot of mediation.
It's a lot of conversationsabout why she's struggling,
(19:32):
how he can support her.
If he's struggling,how can she support
him, things like that.
And so I guess so to answeryour question more briefly, yes,
I am seeing, more wivesand I don't know, again,
I don't know the reasonor the why
other than the increasefor women watching porn.
Is probably coming aspart of that.
(19:54):
Interesting.
Yeah.
Well, Crystal,as we kind of begin
to wrap up here today,do you have any final words
that you would love to say tomaybe some listeners
that are out there right nowthat are struggling
that, you know, I just kind ofin silence and shame.
What would you say to them?
Yeah, I'm actually goingto share a scripture if I can.
(20:15):
Psalm 34 five is thosewho look for him for help
will be radiant with joy.
No shadow of shamewill darken their faces.
And my whole approachhas always been again
the anti shame.
Like if you're struggling,you I know what you're feeling
because I have I have feltthat feeling.
(20:35):
I know exactly what that feelingfeels like.
And I know also that shame isso unhelpful.
Shame is goingto keep you stuck.
It's goingto keep you in bondage
to your addictionand your struggle.
And so if you feel likeyou're alone, you're not alone.
We talked about the statsalready from Barna Group.
Like millions of womenare struggling.
(20:57):
You're just one of millionswomen who are struggling.
But you can be one of hopefullymillions of women
who can be set free,who can find wholeness,
who can find healing.
All you really haveto do is seek it,
and find resourcesthat are going to be anti shame.
We're going to lift you up,but also not hold you
(21:17):
where you are, but to imploreyou and empower you to heal.
And so yeah.
And we long to be a part of thatif we can.
That's awesomeCrystal we're going to
bring today'sepisode to a close,
but we want to make surethat our listeners know
how to get in touchwith your ministry.
I know you mentionedyour website, earlier.
And then are thereany additional resources?
I know you have books.
(21:38):
Things like thatthat you can also point
our listeners to in theclosing statements.
Yeah.
So She Recovery.comis where you can pretty much
find everythingthat we have to offer,
including our virtualcoaching and counseling
services.
But also, you know, bookslike Diaries to Wholeness
is available on therethat I wrote a 90 day devotional
that will walk youthrough the first
90 days of recovery,or 90 days again, depending on
(22:00):
where you are in your recoveryjourney.
It's also availablefor free on YouVersion,
so there's no cost obligation.
You can just hop on and do thatand, go with go through recovery
with faith based in mind.
Crystal, again,thank you so much
for joining us.
And to our listeners, thank youfor listening again today.
Please share and like this.
And, look forwardto seeing you again
(22:21):
in the next episode.
Thanks. Bye bye.
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